Planning Board - Regular Meeting

50 years ago. Thank you. [clears throat] Thank you. [clears throat] [clears throat] I think I don't think unless he's on the line. Chris, are you seeing

focus?

Yeah. [clears throat] Can we tell whether he's doing this? Not sure. Um Yeah. All right. Before we call the meeting to order, I'd like to make a couple of announcements. One, we're welcoming. We now have a full vote. We have our newest board member appointed, Nathan Bol. U so welcome to the planning board. Would you like to say a word or two about yourself?

Uh yes. So I'm Nathan Bush. and was here about five years now and excited to be able to get some work and advocacy served on this tradition by the committee various things around join the team. Uh you may recall we created a informal relationship with the CAC and the historic uh HPC group and Nathan is representing us as the liazison to CAC which should be a great help. Thank you. Um, also I would be saying to Chris, our engineer, uh, I, if he comes in, I'll thank him later. But, um, you recall Crunch at our first meeting of the year. Um, I mentioned that in a change of administration quite often there's a change in the, uh, actors and, uh, the mayor chose to select for us a new uh, legal council uh, and a new engineer. Uh but that transaction or transition didn't happen in a timely way to u continue to work with the student center and uh it was an outstanding gesture on his part. He couldn't have been more in terms of of carrying out his duties. And finally, one last announcement. Uh I think I'll ask Gabby to make this announcement. Gabby.

Okay. I barely have a voice in every show I speak I call [laughter] um I regrettably mostly have to step away from the planning board because I commit to being here every Tuesday for the rest of the year. I I know for certain I won't be here six out of the next however many Tuesdays and it's possible I won't be here forever because of work engagement. So, I'm having to leave earlier than I hoped I would. And yeah, um I [clears throat] wish you all and I'm sure that there will be no news out of the planning board. Everything will be calm and easy. No problems at all.

Well, once I step away, things will be a little calm. Lloyd will still be here and he'll deliver any news. Well, that brings me to my my final announcement. The mayor has appointed Lloyd to the PL. Um, can I get suggest you trust one? I would. So, thank you for your service and good luck to you and and don't be a stranger, but then I'll call the meeting to order. Um, as it turns out, I don't have an agenda in front of me. Thank you. First, are there any bills to pay tonight? Yes.

Okay. First order of business identify the payments required and we have invoices from Barton or Judas dated March 10th in the [clears throat] amount of $1,872. Okay. [clears throat] Um I suppose we ought to have a motion to approve that invoice being a motion that makes second. I'll second it. Okay. Okay. Second.

Miss Hoffman. Yes. Mr. Shepki. Yes. Mr. Spear. Yes. Mr. Bogle. Yes. Yes. Miss Opra. Yes. Miss

pass unanimously. Uh second order of business is to approve the minutes from our February 10th. Uh first I would ask are there any changes or corrections to those minutes? Changes or corrections and I would entertain a motion to approve most moves. Is there a second? Second roll. Hey Yes. Yes.

Is there any information that the board should know about this release? they've met all the conditions for application. There is some remaining escrow. So we set up an escrow with each project and at the end of the project if there's funds remaining then the remaining funds are returned to the applicant. If more funds are required then that's another story. But today we're releasing the remaining escrow for kites. A motion to approve. Make. Okay. I have a second. Second. All right. Linton. Yes. Ball. Yes. Mr. Woodh Hall.

Yes. Miss Conra. Yes. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Spear. Yes. Thanks for order business committee reports. Um, we don't technically have committees on the planning board, but we have set up this special relationship with two other organizations in town. So like to call on Peter who is our leazison to the HPC to comment on uh any activity that's occurred there since our last meeting.

Yeah, I had a meeting with Cara Craig if you want to say hello who's the liaison from the historic preservation commission and just opened the lines of communication and I guess we're sort of playing it by ear and see what opportunities there are to collaborate. And uh Nathan is our CAC leazison but I don't think you've had anything to report yet. And they didn't have a meeting this month because of snow. I think we're assured that there's no more snow this year. So that's forecasted for Sunday. Are you kidding? Yeah. [laughter] And 19 degrees. Sorry to be

Are you New York? [laughter] I'd like to reorder the agenda with one change and that's to move the review and approval of the escrow policy to the front of the agenda. We could deal with that now. Um, Linda posted it on our u portal. Um, I think that first I'd like to recognize Linda and Jean and and Andrew for the work that you did to u revisit this issue. Um, we also engaged the city treasurer and the city clerk as they're a part of the uh cash management of the escrow funds. Um, what we presented to the board now is, I think, a tighter document [snorts] that makes more clear the step-by-step nature of what the escrow is and what it isn't. It also has been turned into a contract with the applicants so that they're actually signing a document that commits them to following the u uh outline of the procedure. Um not included in the material that was posted [clears throat] uh is a more structured um um uh escrow thresholds for projects. Um namely um site plan reviews $2,500 for due and amended site plans 3,000 to 10,000 square feet the initial deposit of $5,000 and replenished when it hits,000 uh and greater than 10,000 ft $10,000 uh escro replenished at 2,000 u uh when it reaches 2,000. So uh we hope that this uh makes uh more transparent the whole escro process and uh and will give folks a better understanding of why we have it and how it's used and so forth. So I I guess we're really only voting on the document that was included in the portal and that's the um the language that the applicants are going to be

asked to agree to. Yes. Okay. So, I would entertain a motion to approve the the new escrow uh language and process. Uh then we can discuss once uh it's moved and seconded. Is there a motion to approve the issue? [clears throat] I don't have my copy. We can in the beginning it's got It's It looks like it's repetitive. Street address section block ID tax ID number. That's an old That's an old one.

Yes. It's been revisited just because on the end of the document, you've got the same information there. It's okay. Just people's ID. Okay. We have a copy of the thing we're actually And do you have an updated version that he can see is that's posted on the order. No one was just a duplication. That's all. Right. It doesn't change the content of the document itself. You spotted that.

Yeah. I don't know. Where on the portal would this I didn't get distributed distributed to you guys. There's an email that you sent.

If the board doesn't have the final document in front of them, I recommend we table this for now. Um unfortunately I think that okay so our first applicant tonight is 22 might representative here tonight. Greetings. Do you have an update for us from our last conversation?

Um, no. As far as I'm concerned, you know, I was just waiting to get approval from the board. I don't know if you need any sub. Okay. I'm just waiting to see if you guys will approve the project. Okay. So um you can stand or you can take your C back again a little business. This project is uh concluded with the state's predefined list of actions that do not require further environmental review. Uh so our seeker obligations are complete. Uh I would entertain a motion to classify assume restaurant is a type two action under seeker. That by the way is the state environmental quality review act. Um and uh so is there a motion for consideration?

Make the motion. Okay. And is there a second? Second. All right. Um roll call, please. Miss Hoffman. Yes. Mr. Shki. Yes. Mr. Speaker, yes. Mr. Michael, yes. Chairman Bogle. Yes. Mr. Woodall. Yes. Miss, yes.

Okay. Thank you. Um second to action uh u is the is the uh need for um uh public hearing. We had this discussion about GG's in our last meeting. Uh so um let's go ahead and get a motion on the floor before we discuss. Uh so I would entertain a motion uh to wave the public hearing on this project. Uh if the board so desires motion from Peter at this time. Sorry, we did. We did. We voted on the other application. Oh, okay. Is there a second? Sorry. Is there a second? I'll second.

Second. We got Peter did the motion. And there he is. We decided to go without charity. It was forever. And I I made that mistake last week.

Let's go ahead and finish this business and then So this is the motion to w public hearing. We have a motion and a second. Is there discussion? [clears throat] So just chime in here wine bar restaurant application last month and same year in it discretion and the intent is if it does not think that a public hearing is warranted your code provides this forward with the authority to wave it but it wasn't type discussion was with different opinions in the last so wanted to bring it back for discussion tonight is there discussion

I would say the same discussion applies a timing issue but I'm I'm letting it go okay the only like possible concern I could see the public having noise potentially um there's I don't think there's a unit of the space it's just like side so it seems over the Do you expect your restaurant be noisy? I don't think so. Some some music some like you know there'll be restaurants going in and out but this is normal business. Can remind us what the hours will be.

Um [clears throat] I'm probably trying to do like from 12 to 10. Uh like maybe weekends go to a little bit later but doesn't matter. What days of the week? Um, most likely seven days a week or six days a week. Any other discussion? None. Call the role, please. Mr. Michael, yes. M. Yes. Mr. Wood Hall. Yes. Mr. Schky. Yes. Miss Alman. Yes. Mr. Spear.

Yes. Motion passes. Um, we have one more action. Uh, that is I would entertain a motion to refer the matter to the Columbia County Planning Board. [clears throat] Yeah. Well, doesn't it fall within the 500 foot threshold of of the state highway? No, that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. No. Uh there's no county building nearby. The closest one is 610 State Street, which is a block down and a block over. Okay. Office Department of Social Services Avenue.

Yeah. And would this way you have anything? What's What's the trigger that you're playing at? If it's within 500 ft. Oh, that comes from GML 23 within 500 ft and section

500 ft of boundary of any city, village or town. the boundary of any existing or proposed county state park. Right away of any existing or proposed county or state parkway, three-way, expressway, road, or highway. The existing or proposed right away of any stream or drainage channel. The existing or proposed boundary of any county or state owned land on which a public building or institution is situated. My interpretation is that is unnecessary. So long as it's outside of the 500 foot threshold, then there is no the county highway. No, the state highway.

Yes. Did you say that? No. State highway. That's not a requirement for referral because the city of Hudson maintains the ground.

It's owned state 9G and 23. It's owned by the state but it's maintained by the city. So therefore it accepts that requirement. Okay. And then the next county building would be on the corner of six in Columbia 61 I'm sorry and six alley that's motor vehicles in the county office that's an entire question

not required no so long as it's outside the distance then there's no requirement for referral. All right, then I'll remove the request for that motion. And um where does that leave us in terms of the status of this project? So if there's nothing left for the board to consider that's not waiting on any additional information from the applicant, they could potentially take final action on the project. Okay. Would you offer language for for our consideration?

Sure. Give me one moment. So, it would be appropriate for the board to have a motion to approve the site plan application at 22 Park Place last reviewed before this board on March 10th subject to the condition that all applicable escrow. All applicable professional review fees are paid and satisfied pursuant to city code article 10 section 32539. I'm not aware of any other required conditions. So, I'm going to put that in the form of a motion.

Okay. Second. Okay. We got Kaylee over here second. Uh, let's call the RO. Mr. Michael. Yeah. Miss Conra. Yes. Mr. Spear. Yes. Miss Sman. Yes. Mr. Woodall. Yes. Mr. Shepsky. Yes. Chairman Bogle. Yes. You have been approved, sir. Thank you so much. Now, now remember, remember hummus on the house next [laughter] was Was it Gabby? Was it? I think that's illegal. Oh, I said no. No. [laughter]

Congratulations. I'd love a happy ending. Moving on to the next project. 76 North 7th Street, GG's Wine Bar. Um, do you have any update for us tonight?

Uh, any updates? I know as of right now, we're pretty much waiting. I think tomorrow the county planning board meets my memory serves. So, we'll get the referral back then. Um, board waved the public hearing last time. So, today just wanted to let you know. Um as for the engineering comments related to the parking fine uh the February letter that was submitted um uh contain details on the current parking that exists there which includes just to give a brief overview about 20 delineated on three parking spaces eight parking spaces um as well as parking that exists for the housing that's over there. Um so all we're looking for today is if the board is open to it asking a straw full. Um Gigi is just looking to start ordering supplies and things that she's going to need. She wants to get a sense of how the board thinks they're going to vote so she can, you know, maybe that should be the determination.

Any additional comments on premier? No. Anything from you? Nope. Um thank you. Um so this type of project is also included in the state's predefined list requires no environmental review and we've already voted to bypass the public hearing. Uh the applicant has asked for a straw poll and I'm told by our attorney that that's doable. It's not binding action just to be clear. So u our inclination is to support this application. Is that kind of a fair summary of our opinion? [clears throat]

I'm seeing heads. It's looking good to me. Um or one other request kind of further into that if the board is over to course um would take action tonight to have you unfortunately I'm sorry to get you extra work an approval resolution to be ready for the next meeting. Um that way GI can get everything kind of rolling right after the approval comes and start working to get towards her May opening date. That works for me. It'll be ready at the next meeting. Good. Is there anything further on this? No, no further action necessarily. Okay, great. Thank you. I'll see you all next month.

So, next on our agenda, business 724 726 Columbia stream. Is there update on the project you want to share with the board? So we had submitted it back in November December and January [clears throat] December and February and had waiting for engineer review if there would be any comments and we uploaded a review letter last week

to the board and I think you got you addressed all outstanding comments and concern. Um there was some recommendations at the bottom of that letter um that support you know recommend approving the project um with three conditions. Um finalizing and reporting the acceptance of Longley right ofway dedication. Um issuance of the sewer extension permit from the city and city approval of any improvements within the right of way from the DPW. Any other comments before we go to secret? Oh, any other comments before we move into secret? No, I think the board's ready to move into seeker parts now.

So, you go ahead and have a seat and u So, I'm This is my first time for seeker, so I kind of made myself some notes, but I also just sort of like what we were talking about earlier, Veronica, sometimes explaining the process is is helpful because otherwise it's sort of mysterious and and vague and and so forth. So, u and also I'm learning about what secret is. So uh we are going to conduct an environmental review under Seeker. Seeker is an acronym acronym SEQR that stands for state environmental quality review. So u the foundry is a complex project uh multi-use. It doesn't fall under a simple exemption. Instead, the board needs to take a hard look at issues like traffic, noise, um a historic character of the neighborhood, and so forth. To do this, the state has prescribed a process. Uh we have a two-part checklist that uh we have to answer a series of questions that Andrew will take us through. Part one, excuse me, part two, we'll identify potential impacts of the project. Part three will discuss those impacts and if they're significant and how they're being handled. So, we're going to ask Andrew to lead us through these questions. Uh board members, please feel free to weigh in as we go through and then we can also reach out to the applicant if we feel we need additional information. But it's our uh decision as board to ultimately make the determination u once we've answered the questions. So, Edgar, anything else you want to add in terms of explanation of Agor?

Sure, just a brief overview. I don't know, I know we have some new faces around here, myself included, but on part two, you're looking at potential impacts on the environment from the project. And for this unlisted action, they're categorized into no or small impact may occur or moderate to a large impact may occur. So, when I go through the 11 criteria, those are the thoughts you're supposed to have in your head. And this is based on the applicants SEAF previously submitted. That's their short environmental assessment form where they outline the potential impacts and this board is just analyzing them. So I'll read through the questions and then feel free to stop for any discussion as you all see fit. Do we vote on each one individually? as far as you're not required to vote on each matter individually,

but if if the board thinks there is a moderate to a large impact on whatever prong I'm reading, I think it would be best for someone to stop the action. Okay. So, will the proposed action create a material conflict with an adopted land use plan or zoning regulation? And you're considering whether this proposed action will have small no impact or small impact or is there going to be a large impact or moderate impact? Something more people think,

right? It's really it's really if the board saw saw or thinks there's going to be some some sort of environmental impact or if it conflicts with the adopted land use plan or zoning regulation. And if unless anyone identifies one, I will mark it down as no or small impact and move on to the next bronze. Sounds reasonable. Will the proposed action result in a change in the use or intensity of the use of the wind? By definition, it seems like significant change. Yeah. In the use.

It's a significant change. Yes. But but is that it's not is it moderate to large impact just a change by virtue of being a change isn't necessarily a large impact. Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of the existing community? No. No. [clears throat] Will the proposed action have an impact on the environmental characteristics that caused the establishment of a critical environmental area? No.

Will the proposed action result in an adverse change in the existing level of traffic or affect existing infrastructure for mass transit, biking, or walkway? Seems like that's been addressed.

Yeah, I just really said their answer is no. So based upon how the applicants addressed this board is saying there's no or small impact well the proposed hold she's iffy and I'm iffy it it does have an impact because in terms of the direction of the the alley going to have more people there entering an ex onto Columbia Street the sidewalks will be changed change. I believe the park area does that have an effect on the area. I'm I'm fine with it being a small impact. Small impact.

Yeah. Okay. I'll go along with that. [laughter] No. Satisfied there? Will the proposed action cause an increase in the use of energy and it fails to incorporate reasonably available energy conservation or renewable energy opportunities? on this has the applicants that what's that has the applicant spoken to that one way and it's going from vacant to being used. You want to speak on that Walter?

Well, okay. [clears throat] So, I think the best way to say it is that we're taking an uninsulated unused former tire warehouse. We're insulating it. We're soundproofing it because we're going to use it as a theater and you know we're using the best energy reduction techniques we can mostly to save the owner money but I would say we meet the criteria of

seeds. Now this question is a two-parter. Will the proposed action impact existing A publicprivate water supplies and part B public wastewater treatment utilities? So the answer is yes. They're going to be increasing the flows of water demand. Um and that's the process they're going to need to get the sewer extension burnout through DAC. So that transition so that if there is going to be that moderate to large impact, we can check yes. And then when we get to the next part, we can write in how the applicant's addressing that.

Will the proposed action impair the character or quality of important historic, archeological, architectural, or aesthetic resources? Will the proposed action result in adverse change to natural resources? Will the proposed action result in increase in the potential for erosion, flooding, or drainage problems? That's more [clears throat] than that. And lastly, will the proposed action create a hazard to environmental resources or human health?

So that's everything on part two and we answered no or small impact for everything except number seven. Will the action impact existing public private water supplies or public private waste water treatment utilities? So then we go to part three. That's the determination of significance. And I'll just read from the top here. For every question in part two that was answered moderate to large number seven in our case or if there's a need to explain why a particular element may or will not result in significant adverse impact. Please complete this part. So here we're supposed to fill in what the applicant is doing to mitigate that identified moderate to large impact to make it essentially a non-issue and turn that into no or small impact. So it's I don't want to put words in boards now but it's my understanding that the applicant will be complying with the engineering comment number I don't have in front of me but uh the sewer extension

it's comment number right.

So the act could be working with D or the DPW to acquire the sewer extension permit. So is the board satisfied with that rationale for that uh that will mitigate number seven? Yes. Yes. Can I I just don't understand the project here. Is it that they don't have adjacent sewer currently? Is the city's under a consent order combined sewer overflow and correct? Um so they need to go through the process of submitting an engineering report which I've done an initial review on. Um and then that goes to DPW and they do their review and submit to D or to New York State um DC for the extension.

Everyone all good? So based on that we can now uh make a determination of significance and that's either positive or negative. Positive means there will be a environmental sign the project will result in adverse impacts on the environment. A negative determination of significance means that there will be no potential adverse change to the environment. And based upon our answers on part two and the condition the applicant is performing TDE comment number three, it would be appropriate to make a to accept a motion for a negative determination of significance.

Do we have to adopt the parts two and three first? We we could vote to adopt it. That would make sense. So does the it would be appropriate for the board to accept a motion to Adopt part two and three is complete and then we'll take a determination of significance vote. So moved. Is there a motion? Jane second. Second. Okay. Yes. Yes. Missra. Yes. Mr. Michael. Yes. Miss Hoffman. Yes. Mr. Shepsky.

Yes. Yes. Much passes. Um, so is there a motion now to uh issue a negative declaration for the family? [clears throat] Yes. Second. Roll [clears throat] call. Chairman. Yes. Mr. Wood. Yes. Miss Conra. Yes. Mr. Michael. Yes. M. Yes. Mr. Shepsky. Yes. And yes. Approved. And now we have finished the secret process. Correct. and we're ready to approve the site plan uh with one condition. Is that correct?

I think I would recommend if the board's ready to take final action on the application, then I would recommend any potential final action be subject to all the TD comments were addressed. Correct. Correct. There was three conditions at the bottom of the letter that needed to be included. So I would recommend that if the board is going to approve it that it be subject to satisfaction of all the town designated engineers comments identified on his March 3rd letter and further on the condition of payment of all professional consultant fees pursuant to city co article 10 section 325-39.

Yes. Okay. So the motion that we seek is disapproval of the site plan for the boundary with the conditions that our attorney has outlined. Is there a motion? Make a motion. Second Peter. Yes. Ma. Yes. Mr. Wood. Yes. Mr. Michael. Yes. Mr. Spear. Yes. Miss Hoffman. Yes. Mr. Schedy. Yes.

Unanimous. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Now move to our next order of old business. 405 Columbia Street. Anything to update us on here? We received the correspondence and uh the star documents according to those resubmitted fourth or fifth alter submitted revised plan to review. Um there are no major changes to the site plan as a result of those comments. I'll just adjustments to um a couple pipelations and some of our construction teams. Um I sort of view this project as a newer. Um so my understanding is that it's sort of changing the hardscape from a permeable surface currently of a mix of gravel. is like what's currently there um a mix of gravel and cobblestones to some sort of more lessened permeable surface. So there's like in the engineers report or actually your submission I think there's a 16% increase in uh sewage outflow and I just like was trying to understand if that was mostly from the change in surfaces and if there's any like mitigation that could be done on the like hardcape surfaces to make them more permeable so there was less sewage overflow given we have several flow pump

and it's largely due to soil conditions on the site it doesn't really lend itself to infiltrated soil it's been previously developed so those soils are really compacted. Um the USDA soil survey indicates that there is um high ground water levels in that area. So we don't really feel confident about being done on site. But I think it's current stats quote right because you're not building very much any new like is there are building otherwise this is a replacement system. Yeah. I was just trying to understand which like how much was from the paper replacement versus the new building. Oh, there was a portion coming from that.

Any other questions? I don't think there's anything the board is doing tonight in the way of action. Not that I'm aware of. Unless the applicant has any other updates for this board to consider. Is there I think we potentially could as so long as there's no engineering comments. I think the engineering comments were minor nature. So then setting a public hearing is is the next step. Okay. So take me through this. How do we do that?

So here is the you would do a motion. you would accept a motion to schedule a public hearing at the [clears throat] I don't have the date in front of me at the next the board's next meeting which is probably working. Okay. So, is there a motion to schedule public hearing for 6:00 p.m. or between 6:00 and 9:00 p.m.? Do we have to designate the time? As long as you designate the start time. The meeting would start at 6, but that doesn't necessarily I think you should notice it before 6 as long as it's uh you notice it earlier.

Okay, fine. So, a motion to schedule public hearing on April the 13th at 6 p.m. for this project. Motion. [laughter] Second. Sure. Okay, Linda, you should call the role. Chairman Bald, yes. Mr. Lo, yes. Miss Hoffman, yes. Miss Tro, yes. Mr. Michael, yes. Mr. Schedy, yes. Mr. Speaker, yes. Okay, we'll see you on the 14th. Okay, thank you so much. Okay, now we have 14.

Oh, how did the motion read the 14? Okay, good. I thought it was supposed to sit down. So, next is 1416 uh the fourth street, right? Fourth Street. Okay. Again, we were comments in late February Katie and Moulder. Just watch documents. The rest of the comments. So, again, there weren't really any major revisions to the site clean. I think the biggest revision that came with it was originally we had a sidewalk extending a little bit early to conserve that with the prison we opted to be leaving that sidewalk here. Um otherwise there were no jurisdictions.

That was the only thing I was going to comment on was the sidewalk on prison alley. Any comments from you?

No. So long as the board is satisfied with the updates it's received thus far and based upon the inherent satisfaction of the PM designated engineers comments, this board could consider scheduling a public hearing for April 14th. Any discussion or questions before moving into that action? Okay. So let's repeat uh uh again a motion to schedule public hearing 6 p.m. on April 14th for 1416 North Street. Motion chief second Nathan um chairman Bogle yes yes mra yes Mr. Michael yes Mr. Chensky yes

Mr. there. Yes. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Next business is 360 street. Thank you for hearing us. My name is Walter with Associates engineering with I didn't bring the actual board. That's thought it was going to be up on the screen, but there I can share and some random

be great. Thank you.

So, you all probably know this propert elementary school building. Um, it has been vacant since, I believe, 2018. and is proposing to redevelop the building for senior affordable housing. 65 units of affordable housing. Minor changes to the site plan, some landscaping, sprucing up the pavement, cleaning up the building, no changes to the footprint of the site at all, reusing the existing building with existing utilities. We did a new traffic analysis. There will be significantly less traffic than there was when it was a school. There's also ample off street parking for the nom units and um there will be a slight increase in water and student usage from the school program this year. Um property is essentially fully developed except for the steep slope to the back. Got State Street to the uh south west street to the southeast. And way in the back there is like dead end Washington Street.

There's another parking. I didn't say about parking. There's there's off street. Off street parking. Yeah, there's off street. Is there going to be any onsite parking? Uh off streetet being on site. It's all on site. Okay. Yes, there you go. Y on street. I think there are 66 stones in parking lot for the 65 apartments. And just an update, the city has taken this project as the lead agency. We've conducted the seeker process. They've uh classified it as type one action and so that leaves nothing more for us to do in terms of of action tonight.

Yeah, that's correct. So just a brief overview, the city city council looked at the zoning change with both the zoning change and the 65 proposed units classified as a type one action and conducted the seeker review. So thus this project was included in that review. So is there any further questions or discussion with the these applicants? Thank you all. Thank you. [clears throat] Thank you very much.

So there will be comments on that. I would imagine the new So we're ready for our next uh uh poll business. That's Hudson Housing Authority. Uh I'd like to make a comment before inviting them to present. Uh they did post today on our portal revised uh renderings of the proposed project. uh but because board received them u at such a late notice, I'm going to recommend that we uh view the presentation but reserve our discussion about the proposed changes for our April 14th meeting to give us ample time to understand those drawings and study them and to formulate our questions rather than trying to respond on the run or on the go. So, um um um we would like the the renderings to be put on our portal for public viewing and also request that before the April meeting that if you have new material to submit that you install that before the deadline which is normally

two weeks before

two weeks before the meeting not the afternoon meeting. So, um look forward to hearing your update Jeffrey and uh welcome to our meeting. Thank you all for having us again. My name is Ronda Smith. I'm the Hudson Housing Authority chair. Some things that I really highlighted from last meeting. Thank you all for coming into that. One is um you guys are feeling the same when we're feeling we don't want the 50s. I can let you know with it being born and raised in that that was the worst housing I could have ever been in. It was nothing that I wanted to recreate again. It was something that I wanted to revamp. it may be much better, much more lovelier, you know, and and that's why um also we decided to choose MCO because, you know, we knew that they had all that going on, exactly what we wanted. And I just wanted to let you guys know this was not a rush deal at all, especially being born and raised there. I want the best of the best and I still want the best of the best. And I just want you guys to know that that this was thoughtful um in a timely way and nothing was rushed because I wanted to make sure everything added up perfectly, looked right, and looks gorgeous. And I'll just move that on now over to our executive director, Dr. Datson.

Thank you. Thank you.

Um thank you guys for having us again. Uh and [clears throat] you know, whatever feedback we've gotten so far, we really appreciate. Uh, I just wanted to share a couple things to add on to what Raonda said. And I wanted to share a little bit about myself because I don't I think I assume that people knew who I was, where I came from, and why. Um, I was selected to work for the Huntington Housing Authority because of my background. I grew up myself in public housing for 23 years. I lived in public housing in probably well the 10th largest housing authority um in the nation in North New Jersey probably one of the roughest toughest we would say um and because of those experiences that I've had there good and bad uh it's become my mission to make sure that others had better housing opportunities than I. Um, with that said, uh, you know, I came here and accepted the position, which this is something that executive directors do. I don't know why, but we like to have the challenge of fixing things. And there was a problem here. um a problem that was that existed before I got here, the building beyond its usefulness, a bad deal that was put together prior. And I was tasked with holding all of that together while developing a plan and putting together a team to make sure that we brought dignity, beauty, um and and everything else families deserve. Um and also while sharing uh the the hope um that I that I that I professed for people that I have uh myself become felt self-sufficient through my mother's story. Um she made sure that we stayed in public housing until I went to college and that was the only way that I was able to get that opportunity. Um so I sold that to people that you can link it to. Um so uh to Ronda's point, it's been a very

wellthoughtout process. We've been working on it uh well over well was worked on before I got here but started being constructed when I got here and you know when I came to her in the first walk that I had down the street I was like this is a beautiful historic place only to make a right on North Second Street and go oh my god what is that even though I saw pictures of what I was coming to work uh on it was hideous um I'll never build anything like that again um and that's why we're here and I'll Just want people to understand that and understand that that is the mission. It's not about a deal. It's not about a money grab. It's about making certain that people have the opportunity to have safe, stable housing so they can have stable lives so that they can do better. Um so with that, we'll introduce John first who's going to tell you about the team. I'm John first. I'm land council for the applicants. Um [clears throat] come back to file. Thank you Jeffrey. Um, so we do have the architect here and I think that's kind of the main emphasis of our presentation tonight is just to give you a feel of the renderings. I know there were some questions that came up after the last meeting. Um, you know, thank you for hearing us out tonight. We don't expect any detailed comments, but of course, if you have any initial preliminary feedback, that's great. If not, you know, that's fine, too. Uh, on the um remotely, we also have the engineer, we have the site civil engineer, we have a landscape architect, and we have a traffic engineer. In case you have any questions on the prior submission we made a couple of months ago, nothing's changed. The only new information on our rendering is that Quincy's going to go uh through with the board. And yes, we realize that we need to, you know, we're working on our submission for the Amal meeting. Um so, thank you again without further ado, Quincy.

Good evening all and thanks for having us again. Um my name is Quincy Williams. I'm here representing Alexander Borland Architects. We are the design architects for this project uh which we are aiming to bring to fruition here in Hudson. Um I'm assisted this evening by Carlos who's part of the development team and we'll walk through this. Um this image first up is the image of what exists on site which we hope to dispel. It's a ninestory multif family affordable housing builder that's needs revamping. uh I think it's been many years in the making and with your help we wish to bring this to fruition as I mentioned earlier illustrates three buildings um two of which are in phase one of which is phase two uh we b start with the buildings that are on state street north second and then shift into the building that's on north second and colia as part of the phase 2 development Um and from here we'll go into the renderings that we had prepared. And as Carson is bringing this, I wanted to say the intent here is to articulate these massings so that the volumes read as town houses. That was our initial thought process with sightscaping that align harmoniously into the community. Um the architectural vision has a few aspects at least three major aspects when we were thinking of this. So buildings that create the narrative of Hudson by lining the streets as opposed to a tower in the park uh emblematic of Laruzi's idea of towers in the park. I think we want to run away from that. Uh and I think there were some comments about that uh in my absence. uh buildings that are scaled to be

harmonious with the town houses in Hudson. Uh as you can see from these uh we have a certain interpretation of what the town houses in Hudson look like and hopefully what we want these to look like. But in addition to that, we want to create a pedestrianizing atmosphere uh with a park. We're hoping at some point to pedestrianize State Street in this portion of the site so that it brings a community together in the heart of this project. And my heart is where the community lives um for Hudson as well as in the microcosm that we wish to present here. But the story doesn't end there just yet. And before we flip slides, we also thought about materiality in this process and creating materiality of a sense and a memory of place. We definitely believe Hudson has a certain vernacular uh whether it is brick siding, bay windows, half bay windows, half circles, octagons, whatever the case may be that we have come to appreciate and we wanted to bring that language to this village to the rest of the village. Uh and in doing so we created this syntax bases that are made of brick the above that are made of siding which is emblematic and the sprinkle of bay windows which is also emblematic to hud and beautiful proportion windows to give you that feel of a townhouse. Again the idea here is not to recreate as some has mentioned the 1950s. I think we've moved far beyond that in terms of our thinking, but we wanted to present an architecture that's implemented all of us. So here we are uh looking at what might be the second to last slide show, but it shows what is some parts of the village. There's a playground, there are fourstory townhouse setting that creates that atmosphere. And the last slide we'll

show is just to give you a sense of what this will be holistically. Now, we're we're a larger team and our teams are working to put together these final renderings which was mentioned earlier, but we wanted to show you what phase one will look like. Phase two is in the making, but by the time we're finished with this, we'll show you a presentation that brings all of this into Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

Thank you. For tonight, we will review the engineering comments that were issued last week by our engineer and hear the [clears throat] applicant's initial responses. U many of these comments uh request additional information. So, uh if you would take us through her letter and uh [clears throat] I can take you through the highlevel points on what did the engineering review. Um the project currently falls in two zoning districts. It falls in the Arcore zoning district and it falls in the GC district. So it crosses boundaries and building I believe B1 which is a lower building falls completely in the R4 district. There are setbacks requirements. There's green space requirements. There's um height requirements that go with that district. The G uh GC district has absolutely no requirements. It's a free-for-all. Um there's no height requirements, there's no setback requirements. Um so I think the first thing that needs and that's a lot of the comments in here is coming with a path forward on the zoning. You know, does the GC apply to the R4 because the project's included. Um the project's also subdividing um which makes it a little more complicated. They're subdividing phase one and phase two. So phase one with the subdivision line like I said that puts that bottom building completely in the R portal. Um so that's a lot of the comments and the bulk of the the review was in that. Um there's a lot of engineering comments. I talked to the engineer. There's nothing major that he's not going [clears throat] to you know resolve. He you know acknowledged that this is a work in progress. This is you know needs a lot of refinement. Um the other comment that I made in this letter was somehow tying the demolition of

phase one or phase two into phase one. Right now as it sits it's two different projects. You'll have the phase one project will get built and then the phase two which includes the existing bliss towers. There's no mechanism to make that then have to demo that. That could be in operation forever. Um, so the board might want to consider some kind of key to say that once phase one gets demoed, phase two demolition is part of it. It has to happen immediately after. That way you can kind of tie that into the whole project. Does that make sense? Yeah, that seems smart. Does the applicant want to comment? Yeah, sure.

Um, so first on the zoning question, we did have the architect did have conversations with building inspector last year. Uh and there were two issues that came as far as the split zone. There is a section in the city code that allows uh the split zone property uh to extend the zoning district of the the less restrictive zone. Um so we went through that discussion with the build a code enforcement officer last year and they agreed that the entire project at least um that section not not including the town houses across the street but that section was could be zoned GC. Uh and the other question that came up was the bold requirements for the GSD. Yeah, the bulk table does have they're all blank and so we had confirmed with the building inspector or the code enforcement officer last year that there are no bold requirements in the GC. Um so we feel like those issues were addressed last year when we're going through the conceptual, but we'd be happy to follow up and reconfirm. I would recommend you get a you know letter from the code enforcement officer. Um Craig's no longer there. have to go to the new guy and have you know that

unless you have that correspondency you can

so I'm interested just uh following up on that I did speak with the applicant's attorney about this point and that code provision is 325-4D that's the one we're referencing to here in case anyone's curious and I did reach out to the code enforcement officer to confirm both the split zone issue and that there are no set regulations in the GC C district and unfortunately he was at a training today. So we did not get in touch but this will be verified on our end prior to the next planning board meeting and we I anticipate updating the board accordingly or the we the building inspector could update code enforcement officer sorry

could update the board accordingly as well with a determination letter or some formal writing from the office as articulated by the TPE. It's neither humor there, but I read the part of the zoning agent and it's not clear. I think the council should make it more clear than it is. [laughter] Yeah. And just the planning board unfortunately the code that starts with the code enforcement officer in the city. So that would be our starting point and it was stated it was a different code enforcement officer this year. So we're just trying to bring all the loops back to speed and clear that up and get any written determination that was previously made.

Correct. So I mean in our defense it wasn't really an issue last year. The planning board engineer nobody brought it up while we're going through our conceptual approval. So kind of move forward on these plans with the understanding that there were no issues but you know we'd be happy to confirm those issues. I told them requested that they go to zoning. They don't need to go to the zoning board yet. Sir, I mean something. Do we need to do an action on this? There's no required action, but I think it is in that best interest to bring forth that confirmatory communication. Okay. I got a question. The bill the code enforcement officer does he have the authority to grant this the way I had said?

I I wouldn't classify as granting it. He that's the first line of interpretation of the city's code. Okay. And then with that does do they need to go before the zoning board for approval because you're going from one designation to another GC to another.

I'm not aware that they would have to go to any as long as it shakes out is envisioning it then there would be no zoning board involvement. Of course, the zoning board can review any code enforcement officer determination. That's just getting into that code enforcement. If they have it, they're going to provide it to us. If they don't, they will by the next meeting. That's my understanding. They'll provide whatever. Do you want us to obtain a letter from the or maybe we can both of us can work on it?

Sure. I think if the applicant presented it to the board from the code coron officer and I like I said have put in a communication to him I just haven't heard back. So I would I would suggest we have a motion to request that they go to the code enforcement officer for clarification on the zoning question and aim to try to bring us back confirmation on the correct. So would we have a motion of that? I'm sorry. Would we then discuss it with the current code enforcement officer?

Um, you would the code enforcement office would come with a an understanding of the code and then it would be the planning board's opportunity to say they disagree or agree with that thing. If they disagree, you as a planning board, you could then request the zoning board review it. And that would be like the appeal. So, that's something to keep in back of your mind. And there is a 30-day window that once that starts that you can appeal the decision. I think before we get going, I think we should wait on that. Let's see. Let me just take it from there. Yeah. So, we still want to have a motion requesting that they go to the code enforcement officer for clarification. Yes.

Why are we asking them to do that? I can't represent our ex code enforcement officer. Well, we'd be going to the current. Oh, I see. [clears throat] Is there a motion? Yeah. Jean second. Thank you. L chairman Bold. Yes. M. Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Michael. Yes. Mr. Shinsky. Yes. Yes. Mr. Yes.

And just to cover the second request regarding the demolition. This was also discussed last year at least at one or maybe two of the last planning board meetings. And maybe somebody from the Malco team can can explain. I I think there's a there's an issue as far as demolition demolishing the building the existing building within phase one. I think the funding for that demolition is going to have is going to come with phase two. I don't know if I think you talked about that last year, correct? And that would be it would require require immediate demolition of the building. Uh, hi. For the record, my name is John Mattio. I'm the executive vice president of Malco. Malco is the housing authorities partner on the project. Uh, we've been working with the housing authority for the last two and a half years, I would say. Um, but to give you a little background, uh, projects like this, and we didn't talk about the numbers, but the project hasn't changed in terms of, uh, the numerical number of units we're going to do, right? There's currently 135 units at the site. Um, and what we're proposing is to build two new buildings, okay, which are shown up on the site plan, plus uh six town houses, a total of 166 units. So, we're going from 135 to 166 in phase one. Projects like this generally in the state are funded through what was called the low-income housing tax credit program. It's it's controlled by the New York State Division of Housing and Community Renewal and the State Housing Finance Agency. That that's going to be the primary sources of funding for this project. Uh we've been working with the state um and uh and the state has been very supportive uh of of trying to move ahead because we really need to take the list in Colombia down and move those residents allergy to into quality

housing. So the plan is in phase one is to build um the site uh the buildings on site A and site B and then the town houses to create the relocation resource for uh the the tenants that are currently in uh Bliss and Colombia. Two separate financing pieces. The uh financing piece for phase one includes the construction of of uh of the existing the proposed buildings and the town houses. phase two, which we would go back to the state for, and they're aware that there's a phase two, and they want us to build phase two, would be to go back then and demolish the existing um Bliss apartments and uh and the Colombia apartments. When they're down, then we can build an additional about 100 units or so um on the remainder of that site. Um the previous board asked the question, they wanted to see sort of the total uh package. what's what's going to be there eventually. So, uh what you're going to see in one of the massing uh sketches is to give you an idea of those buildings. So, to get back to your question, um it right now our budget is at the max to build what we're proposing. We can't include the I can't say we can't you can always try to include okay additional funding for the demolitions of of lists and uh and uh Columbia apartments we could try to include that but I would tell you that will put us so far over the state limits that it's unlikely that we would get that funded. Our plan has always been to include that demolition in phase two. So, so if I heard it correctly, there was some question about whether or not you could make a requirement to include the demolition in phase one that would that would u really effectively u make

our financing project infeasible for the state. Um I don't know how the state funding process works. So this is an idea question but what if phase two funding doesn't come through? Say that again. What happens if phase two funding doesn't happen?

Sure. Phase two, phase two, I'll try to answer it this well. I we've done MAPO's done probably 30 developments like this uh over the course of the last 10 or 12 years. Um we've never seen a project that the state had as a phase a phase project where if they funded the first phase, they didn't fund the second. Okay. Usually the state is pretty well committed to that. One of the things that the state likes about the overall plan is that we're adding additional units. We're not only providing quality housing for people that need it, but we're going for basically from 135 units to about a little bit over 200, let's say 235 units. So part of the reason that the state likes this plan is that they know that there's going to be more house, more affordable housing. They just can't fund it in the same package. So, one other followup. How much time passes between the completion of of phase one and the demolition of Bliss Tower? I

I would say roughly sure it probably about two years because again, what we're doing is you can't demolish Bliss until you have the new new buildings done. So, you approve the building, you start construction, let's say two-year construction period. During that time, our application is going in for phase two. So we get in the queue to get funded for phase two, but you can't do you can't do that demolition and start that project until you've relocated that sold out. So my answer is about two years. Maybe I didn't frame the question properly. From the completion of phase one y to the demolition of this tower, how long will it be before the tower comes down? What would you estimate?

In the best of circumstances, I'd say something like three months to six months. It depends on the state. The state has cycles where they'll fund projects a couple times a year. It depends on when in the year the cycle is. It depends on how many other applications are in. Uh all I can tell you is and I don't want to hate to put words in other people's mouths. I'm not trying to do that. But the this is a priority project for the state. The whole project is a priority project. Get the people out of of Bliss and Colombia and build more affordable housing. That's a home run for the state. So, you know, you never can tell what the state is going to fund, but but this is this is a hot number for them.

Like I said, one of my concerns though is that um because of where the new building would go um there's a set of like playground recreation for the residents that would then disappear. there would then be I I just worry about this like thing where we end up for an undefined amount of time we never demolish like there ends up being this empty shell there like like it just seems like that seems like a really bad if even if like a 10% chance like that feels bad right now remember what I said about who I am I'm not going to let that happen it is ludicrous to let that happen it's inhumane to let that happen it's not going to happen.

Yeah. How do you really feel too [laughter] I I I feel the same way. That's why I think that like putting it as a requirement is potentially reasonable even if it does create a financial like problem. I mean it seems just as a person who doesn't understand how financing works then it really is like a if if a we will almost certainly get ben it seems like you should get bridge financing for that if that is like commonly accepted. I'll let our attorney talk to that. I mean that is certainly our goal. Okay. As part of the development team, I can't guarantee you that that's gonna happen. Yes.

I just can't. Okay. And you heard what Jeff said and and believe me, we've done so many of these. The state, this is a priority project for the state. If if it's ever going to happen, it's going to happen here because they want the additional housing. That that's the best we can tell him. The best I can tell. Is there a way to structure it if it was structured differently as what's one unfased project without like I'm just like trying to think creatively about how you actually guarantee the whole gaps. Yeah, I I I understand the problem. I I understand the question. It's a legitimate question. I just I don't want to I don't want to make a commitment that that we can't

commit we can't do this without the financing. And the state is not is not going to tell us now, but they're going to finance it. They don't they don't tell you until deliberately they're ready to go. So I'm I'm I'm hesitant about that. I think that the commitment from the housing authorities has been unbelievable. The state has been very supportive. Uh the project this phase one is supported through the department of housing and urban development. Um and uh and the state environmental uh uh uh office. We have brownfields money that's already been committed. We've got other sources of funding, pro housing, we've got downtown revitalization money. I mean, there's a lot of money already committed to this project. All with the intent that we're moving to phase two. And that's that's the best insurance that I can give you. I'm sorry it's not more than that. That's what

Yeah. And just like we had to present this project before you, the state is fully aware of our total cost. um they had to meet with us with HUD to ensure uh uh or to bless what we're doing so that we can get HUD to close on the property as well. So it's a it's all a delicate dance um but trust me it's happening. Nick Sago, commissioner of the housing authority. Just a um a little bit of understanding of what how the process works from behind the scenes is Monco and the housing authority have been um going back and forth with the state for a few years on this project specifically laying out this phase and it's been a long process of getting all the approvals. you need to add this, you need to cut that. And lots of scope and cost cutting to get it to the point where they can say, "All right, this is the project that we want you to do and we need to move forward." And so it would be very difficult from what I've seen of the process for them to say, "Cut, cut, cut, get it to this point, concise. We need this." And then to come back when they're saying, "We're ready for closing. We're ready to move forward today. actually would want to add a $10 million process into this, which is the demolition of this other building. My worry is that that could jeopardize the project moving forward in the way that it's moving forward right now. That'd be my worry.

These guys can speak more to that, but that's

I'm going to speak directly to that. That that's a major issue. Okay. We're we're running and again Urvanda talked about making sure that you have time to do the work that you need to do, but we're working against the clock and we're working quite frankly against all of the housing authorities in the state. Okay? We also have projects that they want to fund with a limited amount of state funding. So, we're we're working against the clock to get a project to sign up on. And as I say, we've already gotten millions of dollars of commitments from other agencies and other state agencies. Um, so, uh, everybody is on board as much as they can be. Uh and and if we go back, as Nick said, if we go back and now say, "Okay, now we're going to change this where, you know, we can make minor changes in the plans and you know, if you're going to adjust units or something like that, but you you can't make at this point. We couldn't make a significant change in what we proposing, like if we wanted to move into phase two now without completely disrupting a timeline, getting out of the funding." Right now, the state is telling us that we're in the queue to get this closed by the end of the year. If we're going to have a substantial change, then we're out, somebody else is in, and now we start talking about when next year we start and going to be March, is it going to be June? Um, so it's it's critical to to try to keep the project moving within realm of what you guys have to do for your review.

Thanks. No public comments. Lloyd general question. Sorry, we don't have public comments on the agenda. We will have a public hearing in due time and we want to give the public full opportunity to participate in this discussion, but we're in the middle of the technical discussion tonight and it seemed premature to have public comments. Would there be any way to do a time frame demolition so that to say that you've got five years after phase one is complete to I I I think and I'm going to offer this without they already build

I'm going to offer this without talking to the rest of the team but I think that we can certainly say timelines and we have a certain time within to submit an application to the state for funding for phase two and to start that process. Okay, that's a that's a reasonable thing and we can certainly commit to that. I can't give you the dates off the top of my head, but we could do something like that and and you know try to set up a a milestone as we go along. We can certainly do that. Yeah, milestones. Yeah, sure.

Any other questions from the board? I did have like one question around the renderings um around uh the pedestrianation pedestrianization of State Street and whether that was included in the project or not because in the site plan I was looking at it doesn't look like that is just like getting Yeah. So the pedestrianization Yeah. Does that work?

No. Um so that is something that that's it is the housing authorities and map's intent to do that but they wouldn't again approach the state until phase two because of funding issues. So uh phase one is going to state street is going to remain the same. When they come back to phase two you know at that point they'll have discussions with the state and they'll you know hopefully they can you know turn you know make it more pedestrian friendly. So that would be the intent uh to go that way. The park we didn't realize any parking analysis or parking studies would have to be revised if we [clears throat] did uh because right now we do have a parking analysis for both uh both phase one and phase two but that parking analysis contemplated you know cars parking and driving on state street because I think the last that's kind of was the the feel we got from the last board that that's what they wanted. Um, so in the future for phase two when we come back for the site plan approval, you know, we may change it up and we realize that we'll have to provide you an update in parking analysis.

And we we did show the pedestrian you did show the pedestrian walkway, okay, to the state and the state like that. Okay. And but they understand that it can't be included in this space. Maybe can we have renderings that show what's most likely to happen? What's closer to reality and then what's sort of intended? Renderings renderings represent what's closer to the intent. But we could show you both. No, I'm saying what's I I guess what I'm hearing is it's going to happen. Is it going to happen or is it not going to happen or we don't know? We'll show you both versions. Yeah. So that way you have the field. Yeah. But the intent it would be desire is to right

if everybody's on board of course. the municipality would have debate. Um, so it's conditional on other parties agreeing. And this is my point. If it's within your power to pedestrianize the street and it's part of what you're actually proposing, then I suggest keeping it in your renderings. But if it requires other somebody else to make a decision for that to happen, then you withdraw it from the rendering so the rendering isn't misleading about what's actually being proposed. But the light time shows station parking but the actual technical drawing show that speaking about the render. Yeah. improvise the rendering to show so that way people see both

first and what and what we could commit to is that you know coming forward in phase two we're going to present you know and request the pedestrian designation of of the one follow on Peter's question u are the renderings as as we evaluate them over the next month and and and study them uh just to help frame our point of view are they u uh conceptual illustrations or do they really reflect what's currently being planned to be built? Speaking of that, what we've shown I think is what we've shown for the last year and a half. Uh that's the intent of what we expect to be built here uh in the immediate future.

Those are two different things though. Intention and expect expectation are very different degrees of certainty. Yes, the architects deals with intent. My intent is to have this built in the immediate and my intent is to have it built the way it should. Any other comments or discussion? Anything else from him?

No. Gord, any further comments or questions uh to the applicant? Any further points or information? It's been thorough, helpful. Your passion is important. Thank you for sharing the interview and Jennif. And uh we will do our homework this month. Well, some of us will, some of us won't. Um and I I will reflect on one thing that it must be frustrating in some ways. This this is a project you've been bringing to this to the planning board for two years. And as of next month, we'll have four new members that are trying to catch up. So, I know that that we're covering territory that you may have felt like you've covered before or we bring different points of view than other planning board members. So, we'll try to ease your discomfort as much as possible. But, thanks for allowing us to probe, ask the questions and understand. And thank you for your direct uh and transparent responses to our questions. um it's it's it's gathering information that is the core objective right now for us and to understand uh our role and help you move it forward. So, thank you all and we'll see you on April 14th. But I would request again that if you have new materials, please hit our twoe deadline so that we have time to to review them in advance and I know you understand that. So, that will conclude old business reports. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have no other business and so uh 90 minutes if you are

meaning I'm ready to accept a motion to the jour. Why don't you do that? Oh god.