Village Council - Special Meeting

Good evening and welcome to the April 27th, 2026 Council special meeting for the Village of Holly. Clerk, please call the roll. Winebrenner. Here. Wendel. Here. Ryan. Pascua. Here. Cole. Here. Kyer. Here. Brandon. Here. We have a quorum. If you are willing and able, please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Someone always could, right? This brings us to public comment. Members of the audience may address Council on any item that is not on the agenda.

Madam President, I'm sorry. Pardon? Um do we have to do a motion to excuse Council member Ryan? I will entertain a motion to excuse Councilman Ryan.

I'll make the motion to excuse Councilman Ryan. I'll second it. We have a motion by Wendel. We have a second by Winebrenner. Clerk, call the roll. Wendel. Yes. Pascua. Yes. Winebrenner. Yes. Cole. Yes. Kyer. Yes. Brandon. Yes. Motion carried. Okay. This brings us to public comment. Members of the audience may address Council on any item not on the agenda. Those addressing Council will be limited to 3 minutes of speaking time. After each agenda item, there will be an additional [laughter]

Next time, just scream test, test, test. There will be an additional 2-minute public comment period to speak to that item before Council votes. Council will hear all comments for future consideration, but will not have a response at this time. Prior to addressing Council, members of the public shall state their name and address for the record. Public comment. Regina. Hello Council, good evening. Regina Kegel, 711 South Broad Street. I just have a couple of different things to mention tonight. Uh one of which is I would like for our contract with AquaWeed to be looked into. I'm not sure how long our contract currently is for them for their herbicide and algaecide treatment of the Mill Pond. However, I was contacted by a resident today and I myself also received a treatment notice. So, they're currently not able to treat the pond. Um it seems silly to continue paying them if we do not have to continue paying them. I understand if we are still contractually obligated to do so, um but I was asked to mention it and to look into it, which I feel obligated to do so being that, you know, the Mill Pond does matter to a lot of people there. So, that's one thing. And then the next is um just a kind of a little thought to to mention here is that historically our police have gone and delivered agenda packets to commissions, to boards, and obviously to Council. And I understand that that's something that probably needs to continue for Council, um because you guys have a lot of sensitive information to discuss and and and go over. However, we have so many commissions and boards, and we're looking at about 42 at minimum stops a month that we are expending police resources on simply to deliver agenda packets. Um I myself am getting this in an email and would be happy to either print it myself or just continue looking at it on a device. Feel like it's 2026 and we maybe don't need to spend a ream of paper a month and valuable police

resources on unnecessary stops when they could be far better of service other places. So, just something to potentially start talking about, maybe that could be an option to help free up our our police force. And that's it. How many How many stops is that, Regina? Um I would say no back and forth, sorry. There is no back and forth right now. Thank you. Thank you, Regina. Is there any further public comment at this time? Angela. [clears throat]

Angela Wallace, 709 Baird Street, but I'm here today to represent the Holly Police Department food pantry, which is located at 315 South Broad Street. Um on April 3rd, 2026, businesses and individuals alike came together to ensure that 12 families who needed some assistance with meals were able to celebrate Easter. Everybody pitched in and provided something. Thank yous especially go to the following people. First of all, our pantry staff who worked to put boxes together for those families. Um Jerome and Robin from Creative Fashions who provided mashed potatoes and carrots. Linda from Battle Alley Coffee and George from Holly Township for supplying milk. Um Chris from Goosebusters for giving us 12 lb of butter. Leslie, our hometown realtor, for donating eggs. Janet from the police station for providing candy for the kids. Cupcakes and Kisses who provided cookies and treats, along with various other individuals for supplying mac and cheese, fruits, breads. The pantry provided hams for each family. Thank you to Holly Area Schools who worked with the pantry staff to provide names of families. Thank you to the Holly police officers for delivering some of the boxes to those who did not have transportation. Thank you also goes to Sherilyn for delivering meals as well. Um thank you to our community for being so kind and donating foods and hygiene products to us so that we can help our families and people in our community. Um thank you also to Council for pulling us together to make Holly the best place to be a village. Together we all we all work together um to move Holly Village and Holly Township forward. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Angela. Public comment. Hearing none and seeing none. This brings us to new business. Let's see.

[clears throat]

Clerk, will you read item A of new business? Approval of awarding landscaping contract with Irish Brothers Services for the seasonal price of $34,560. Do I have a first to consider item A of new business? I'll consider first uh under the new business with reference to the contract with Irish Brothers Service. Could you please uh read the motion in full since there is a total money amount on there? Approval of awarding landscaping contract with Irish Brothers Services for the person seasonal price of $34,560. Do I have support? I will support that. We have a motion by Winebrenner. We have a support by Cole. All right, Director Rathburg, the floor is yours. Yes, Council. Um so, we put out RFPs for our uh annual uh grass mowing contract. Um we received uh six responses. Um the clerk and I went through them. Um we did uh reach back out to some of the companies to find out um you know, how long they would take to complete uh weekly mowing of all of our grounds, also how many people they'd be throwing at it, as well as, you know, kind of equipment list to see what uh the companies had in their arsenal. Um after careful consideration, we we would like to you to see the contract with Irish Brothers Services uh approved. Um they're a seasoned company who's been servicing our community for many years. They have multiple crews with uh proper equipment to meet our needs. Um and this is a 1-year contract. Um moving forward, just food for thought, um we're we're hoping to maybe develop an RFP that kind of has a longer time period so we don't have to continue doing this every year. So, next year, hopefully things will look a little a little different. Also local business. Yep. They are a local

business as well. Some Yeah, a few of the um a few of the uh other companies were non-local, so I know that a few of you were concerned that the tree company that we had come in was non-local, so this is also a local company. Okay. See that Cold Star is twice as much. Yeah. Premier is more expensive. Um but it looks like um which one is this? Birch.

Birch is quite a bit less. Yes. And um what made you choose So, Birch is out of Independence Township, and his bid did come in quite a bit lower, so I that that concerns me a little bit. I'm not sure why it came in so low. Um So. Yeah, yeah, to back you up on that. Yeah, most of them stayed within the 30s or 40s, and they were 10 grand lower.

Right. Yeah. You also spoke to them, correct, about how they would service it in the future? Yeah, so he would be able to throw like a crew at it, so like a two-man crew, where Irish Brothers is going to probably give us better service. They're going to have at least uh uh two two crews being able to service all of our properties, so it'd be able to be done relatively quickly. So, they'd be able to get it done a lot quicker by doing uh Quicker and and uh more responsive, probably. If if if we have issues or, you know, within within the constraints of their contract, if we need them to, you know, be more attentive to certain areas, they could they could probably manage that. Thanks, Danny. I did have a question, too, Danny, with um the Irish Brothers won because it's a year-long contract, would we still be mowing on say November 7th? Would we be able to be serviced within that contract or does it end like November 1st? We would still be able to be serviced cuz they're going to be billing us month monthly, but that's really all we would see the longevity of the contract being needing needed to be serviced. Council, any further questions? Yeah, I got Well, I got one comical one. I didn't know we were the hot village of Holly. And the other one was is that um uh uh Burkes, he uh has a statement down here that if it's the grass is too dry or dormant to mow, they'll do concrete stick edging over will be performed when necessary. That's in the RFP. If you read the RFP, we put that in there this year um cuz there were a few times that the grass just simply didn't grow and and uh I wanted to be able to make full full use of our contract to be able to start edging some of the sidewalks.

So, that's in for That's for all then? Okay, cuz I only see it down there quote. It's in the RFP. Okay. I have a quote. What about this How are you going to do the cemetery this year?

still does cemetery and Lakeside Park. They're going to You're going to have that then? Okay. I can talk a bit to why DPW's not doing it all. Staffing. Um we used to be able to handle it. The issue was I I we we had some superstar employees that would go out of their way in order to make sure that everything got done. Um it's no no disrespect to to my guys, but um we would be a week in the cemetery and they'd be a week out in in in the field and then they'd be a week back in the cemetery and it was everything they could do to possibly keep up with it. If we ever had any rain days or anything like that, we would get complaints that the cemetery wasn't getting done, you know, these types of issues. So, now we're able to just focus on the cemetery itself, make sure that it's up to par, and then um have a contractor be able to service the parks and give us better service. Several years back, the DPW went from a 12-man crew down to a six-man crew.

Six-man crew. And it really hurt their ability to service. And just for context of it, for the Lakeside for the cemetery, essentially someone will start on Monday and then they will do it till Thursday and then they have to start again on Monday because of the the intricacies of doing the cemetery. And we don't really want to contract that out because of like the potential damage to headstones and things like that. We want to make sure we're keeping that in-house. Any hire seasonal? Seasonal people. Seasonal people for the for the lawns the cemetery. Yep. Council? Any public comment? Hearing none. Seeing none. Could you move over just a scooch so I can make sure there's no hands up? Okay, we're good. Cuz James is hiding back there. Okay. Uh Clerk, please call the roll. Winebrenner? Yes. Pasquale? Yes. Kyer? Yes. Wendel? Yes. Cole? Yes. Brandon? Yes. Motion carried. Thank you, Council. Thank you.

Madam President. Yes. Can we just give a good thank you to our DPW crew for taking care of that sinkhole in front of John Johnny's auto body shop? Why don't we save that for closing comments so that we can spend more time on it? Well, I didn't know we had closing comments during the special meeting. Okay, thank you. Well, sure, why not? Well, don't remind me. Okay, we'll do that. Done for. All right, Lisa, will you please read item B? Consideration of Council for letters of recommendation for the following Holly area students: Maya Mathis, eighth grade, Isaac Beckett, 11th grade, Victoria Walden, third grade, Kylie Kelly, ninth grade, Tyler Shore, fourth grade, Charlotte Cornell, 10th grade. Madam President, I would also like to add one additional name onto there that came to us a little late and that's Ethan Ward in 10th grade. Um as you see both for you, Madam President, we have the letters of combination already kind of written out as examples of what they could be for these students. Yes. Um so, Holly reached out and they asked if uh we could in endorse, is that the right word, these letters of recommendation? Yep. Yeah, create letters of recommendation reaching out to the different communities that represent Holly. Yeah. So, um and the letter in front of us that would go to uh each of the kids would say their name and then on behalf of the Village Council and the office of the Village Manager, we are honored to extend our heartfelt congratulations to each of you for being recognized with the fourth annual Holly area Youth Assistance Award. This award represents something truly meaningful within our community. While academic and athletic achievements are often celebrated, this recognition highlights qualities that are just as important: character, compassion, service, and personal growth. Your

actions demonstrate integrity, resilience, and a commitment to making a positive difference in the lives of others. You have set yourselves apart, not only through what you have accomplished, but through how you have chosen to contribute to your school and community. Whether through acts of kindness, leadership, volunteerism, or perseverance in the face of challenges, you embody the values that make Holly a strong and vibrant place to live. We are incredibly proud of each of you and grateful for the example you set for your peers and for future generations. Your dedication to service and personal growth reflects the very best of our community and we have no doubt that you will continue to make a lasting impact wherever your path may lead. Please accept our sincere congratulations on this well-deserved honor. We look forward to seeing all that you will accomplish in the years ahead with appreciation and pride. Very well written, Tim. That was beautiful.

And I think Dana Wendel also um or Councilman Wendel, he also coordinated, if approved, that uh through the DDA that they will also give it all of the kids a Hollyopoly game, too. So, that And it was approved. Very good. It's a family arguments. Beautiful.

Hey, you know. So, each one of the kids gets one of those, too. Okay. So, do I have a first to consider item B of new business? I'll make the motion to consider item C of new business. Second. We have a motion by Wendel. We have a second by Kyer. Any public comment? Hearing none. Seeing none. Any discussion, Council? Are the kids coming to get these awards at another meeting or are they getting them to Holly? We are going to give all of the packets to Holly including everything and they will distribute all of them. So, it's not on our We are not going to torture them by making them come to the meeting. [laughter]

Why not? They do an award ceremony. [laughter]

I would like to point out that these um students were all nominated by somebody whether it was a teacher or coach and they are various activities from student athletes to scouting to elementary kids who just give back and I think that is an amazing thing. Yeah, she won of the team dance coach and I think it's wonderful. Clerk, please call the roll. Pasquale? Yes. Kyer? Yes. Wendel? Yes. Cole? Yes. Winebrenner? Yes. Brandon? Yes. Motion carried. Lisa, will you please read item C? Consideration of Council of FOIA appeal by Joshua Hunter. Do I have a first to consider item C of new business? I'll make the motion to consider item C of new business. Motion by Wendel. I'll second it. Second by Winebrenner. Clerk, will you please introduce this item? So, um Mr. Joshua Hunter um has been um in communication with the village with regards to um as as we had stated in another appeal meeting, it's the oath of office for the um village attorney. And um he's been going back and forth with several different requests, but it all stems around the oath of office for the um the attorney and he is also um requesting emails that were taking place which are attorney-client privilege and he is also requesting that when we had that a special meeting that you guys all said that it was the um head of the body. And so, um there was a letter that was

sent on behalf of President Brandon with regard from um Attorney Gildner's office explaining what was, you know, the head of the body and all of that and um he's he's now is still not satisfied with that. He wants a response from the head of the body. I can feel Attorney Gildner chopping at the bit over here, too. So, I see that this letter says that President I see that this letter says that the President stands by the village's denial, but that was the Council that made that decision, not just the President, correct? Is Was this the last exchange or was there another one after that that that also confirms that the council. In your packet there should be a so um Sorry, there's a lot of correspondence here.

outline uh the first page of the TV outline Okay. with um kind of spells everything out. So, what's the question now? What what is the demand or the question at this point? What's he want? He wanted this on an appeal and he wanted it um he wants a response from the head of the public body. If I may? Yes. [clears throat]

To put this into context, uh he has submitted a FOIA request to the village and and from what I'm able to uh determine, he sent the same uh FOIA request to a number of different communities. And what he's asking for is proof that the municipal attorney uh took an oath of office uh through the municipality. So, he requested that. I take no oath with you. Uh we immediately communicated that. There is no no such documents. This request is uh denied. Since then, I I don't know the number of communications he's had with the village, but he's peppered the village with questions about how they've communicated that response to him. Mr. Hunter, uh I imagine fancies himself as an expert in FOIA. Uh I think he's probably one of those keyboard um

[clears throat]

um experts um who um you know, sits someplace and just types all this stuff out. So, initially when we said there are no such uh documents, you have the right to appeal. He submits an appeal. Again, over documents that don't exist. Um We I spoke with you uh Madam President um uh I saw you as the head of the public body and asked you uh what do you say on this? And you said, I affirm uh the decision. He challenged that and said, it's city council. Uh we took it to city council. Uh city council uh then uh I think said the same thing. Um I don't believe this latest document and request from him constitutes an appeal. What he's looking for is answers, information, explanation for the fact that records don't exist. Uh to the extent he's watching or anybody is watching, I have not taken an oath from this village and I don't know how many different ways we can prove uh the absence of a document to someone who just insist on it. Well, we could send him this picture. I I a picture of nothing. So, uh just to remind everybody at our at our last meeting when we talked about this, we had um an another attorney from Gildner's office and Councilman Cascola brought up a great point, which is that even if we had our attorney take an oath of office, what about when it's an entire team of attorneys? And besides, they answer to their own higher calling. If you have complaints about your attorneys, who do you go to? You complain to the bar. That's um we we don't really need to do an oath of office here. They they have their own they have their own higher higher uh authority to answer to and and we did all agree to that. So, I What? What? What now? I I

all I would ask um and I'm the one who suggested this be put on the agenda. Although I don't believe his latest uh entreaty is an appeal, uh let's just bring it to to you and have you say that you affirm the decision. Uh there is no such uh uh oath of office. Uh he's not entitled to an explanation and and leave it uh at that. I I I will say just again for greater context, the oath that he claims that we need to take is a one-line oath, which says that we uh swear to uphold the laws of the state of Michigan, the US, and the village. The oath of uh that we take as lawyers when we're sworn in is about a page and a half, which contains not only that, but all kinds of other things as well. Um and so, uh again, I think it's just someone who is trying to find some little niche or technicality uh to trip you up on. How is the current motion worded, please? Consideration of the council consideration of council of FOIA appeal by Joshua Hunter. And the the motion or resolution would be uh that um council um denies uh his appeal and directs that that denial be communicated to Mr. Hunter. So, if we were to vote I, we're saying that Yes, that the appeal is upheld or I'm sorry, the appeal is being denied. Uh you would if you vote yes, you would be denying his appeal. Okay. Council discussion? One dumb question, Mr. Gildner. Um are there any attorneys that take an oath of

office? I don't know. I mean, none that you know of though? Uh none that I know of, no. Good enough. And uh with all of my municipalities, I've never taken one for any municipality. Um for any reason.

it'd be kind of be kind of like Ms. Brandon had said, it'd be kind of frivolous because you take a stronger oath when you become an attorney. Right. So, I was just curious that maybe he was seeing something that we weren't. That's all. Also, I Well, I think he's seeing lots of things that we don't. I'm not there to say that. We're being represented by the entire firm as uh when Chris was here last time. It is so. It's hard cuz we have to oath all of everybody. I would like to point out to even just recently in a public record, so these documents are online in our documents library. We took in bids for other attorneys and so, it is a clear transparent thing that we are being represented by Attorney Gildner's firm. And while he is the one here all the time, he might not be the only person.

Most of the time.

I've been here all the time. Yeah. So, you're not the only one and so, it would make zero sense to have anybody take an oath of office in that way. Council? Any public comment? Okay. Hearing none and seeing none. So, to agree with um our previous decisions and Lisa's, we would vote I. To agree to agree with uh Joshua to a Hunter, we would vote nay. Just so that is clear for all of us cuz I've messed one of those up before and one other councilman may have as well. And so, if we vote I, that means we are for denial. denial. Okay. Denying his request. That's why I wanted to make sure that There's some double negatives going on and triple positives. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure we got the connotations right. Okay. Lisa, will you please read item D? Or sorry.

[laughter] You call the roll. Maybe we do read it out one more time just for clarity, the actual motion before we do. So, that that's what I want to clarify, too. So, council denies Joshua Hunter's appeal and directs that the denial be communicated to Mr. Hunter. Okay. But by whom? By think that needs to be in the motion. Okay. Uh one of the issues that he's taken, of course, is that

Well, yeah, cuz that's administrative. I mean, you guys are allowed to speak for council when we make decisions. But now according to him, uh one of his issues is uh well, this is a letter from Lisa, the clerk. Uh this needs to be coming from council. It's it's that sort of gamesmanship.

No, council doesn't get paid to work. We don't get to use your computers. That's absolutely inappropriate. We direct Lisa or Tim or you to represent the council and we represent the people. Next, he's going to ask for 6,000 residents and their opinion and they may have to write it to him. That's insane. So, you're our representatives here in this and whatever we decide now. So, clerk, please call the roll. Kyer? Yes. Wendel? Yes. Cole? Yes. Wineburner? Yes. Cascola? Yes. Brandon? Yes. Motion carried. Very good way to put that, Madam President. Thank you. Lisa, will you please read item D? Discussion of council regarding downtown development authority communication. Do I have a first to consider item D of new business? Okay. So, Do you want to introduce it first?

Yeah, can I do that? Sure, go right ahead.

Then I got I'll make a motion if that's if that's acceptable. So, um previously for the past at I don't remember when it started when we started communicating, but I've been doing some research into how our DDA operates and um one of the items that we all received back was as uh from Trevor Stover is don't talk to the board members. You shouldn't want to talk to any board members to influence them or do information gathering that way. So, what I ended up doing is a lot of the stuff I just waited for our new hire to come in, Mr. Steffeson. I emailed him I think it was six different emails. I said, I'm looking for some information. Um and he essentially said um I can read what he says. It's a longer note, but the passage I think is relevant is is here. It says, please note that as executive director of the DDA, I report directly to the DDA Board of Directors, not the Village Council or individual council members, nor the Village Manager, with whom I work but not for. Operational information requests for operational information requests, please direct them through the Village Manager or the DDA Board process. This helps maintain clear lines of authority and respects the governance structure of both boards. So, I've reached out a number of times to um the DDA board and never heard anything back. Uh I've heard some things back, not not really of substance. So, I won't say never. Um So, I had a I had a few questions. So, for instance, uh if I can, I can just go through them real quick and talk about the items. So, um I I would requested the bylaws for the nonprofit, and the item came back uh he said, "No, you're not going to get them essentially." I can read it. It So, the 501c3 is a separate legal entity established by the DDA with its own EIN and funding limited to grants and private donations, no TIFF funds. Its governance and bylaws are bylaws are under the nonprofits nonprofit board's purview. So, I took exception to that. Um I do take exception to that because if you go back and look through the state filings, we've had DDA directors that are filing

them, and the address is here on on record as uh for the for the 501c3's address. And not only that, but once it becomes once the DDA has a document, I believe it becomes public document. So, to just say we have I don't even know if they have it. So, they won't tell me if they have it or not. So, if they have the document, it should be a public document, and we should be able to see it. So, that was one item. The second item, there was a $500 um I'm trying to figure out more information on this, too. There was a $500 expense made, but I can't find any authorization to spend the money. And I would for briefly, it was for the first edition of the Holly Post advertising in it. And somehow we're reading it and they're like, "Well, there's a DDA ad in it." And I'm like, "I don't remember seeing anything about an advertising uh DDA discussing an advertising on that." So, I asked how it was how it was approved essentially, the the minutes of where it was approved. And Mr. Steffenson said, "Um regarding the Holly Post check, it was voided. Okay. And it was approved by both the Village Treasurer and the Village President." So, I don't know how it was approved. I don't know any backing on it. I'm just trying to figure out the back story of how it was approved. So, if the Village President and the clerk treasurer approved it inappropriately or they were not supposed to approve it, I think we can deal with that later. Um then we still have the DDA bylaws, which that's just weird to me. So, at one point, the DDA was saying that the bylaws need to come to council for approval, and now we're hearing they don't have to. So, there's packet information where they say, "Yes, they need to go to council for approval," but now they're saying something different. That's what That's what Mr. Steffenson has indicated as well. Um There at the last um uh budget study work session, there was a

discussion on spending um tech funds. Or it was for legal fees, I guess. And I said, "Well, how are you currently spending the tech funds?" And or how are you currently paying for legal fees? And they said, "Tech funds." Well, if you recall correctly, council rejected the budget amendment for legal fees previously. So, what I think happened, or I'm trying to figure out I don't even know what happened cuz they're not they're not talking to me. Is um they put in for a budget request for more legal fees. We said, "No." They went out and took tech funds. They got a grant for tech funds. Well, and that's another story, too, of how they got the grant. I don't I don't I think there's a motion to actually get the grant, but I didn't couldn't find a motion to spend the money. So, if I could find a motion to spend the money, someone made a decision to spend it, I think, but I I couldn't I couldn't find that. Um So, what I think it it looks like, unless there's something I'm not understanding, is we said no to spending, and they said, "We're just going to get money somewhere else and spend it without your permission." So, and like Mr. Steffenson said, the money would be better spent doing something else than legal fees or something like that I think he said at the at the meeting. So, I'm just clarif- it's like clarification of how we're able to spend tech funds and how we're able to adjust the budget without council oversight. To me, that seems like we should do it. That's why we're working on a budget. Uh the last one was there was a uh um an email went out from I'm not sure who sent it or how it went out or anything else. It was discussed briefly at at DDA uh meeting. There was a business owner that complained about it as well. It was uh an email solicitation. Now, this is what I'm I'm remembering, so it may not be accurate. And And once again, I don't think he addressed this in in the topic or in the email. Um But essentially, uh it was a solicitation that somebody sent

out from the DDA to all their email lists soliciting money for um a private business, the Holly Post again, to get advertisers to spend money with the Holly Post. So, and I'm not saying anything is wrong with that inherently, but there is a board member that works with the Holly Post, and just trying to figure out more information on that. So, I what I would I think we can do is I went through and looked at the Mr. Steffenson's contract and the requirements that they they posted forward to us. Um one of the items is to serve as a as a liaison among business and civic groups and public officials. So, that I'm a public official. Uh provide regular updates to the DDA board, Village Council. That's us. Um And it And in contract, it also has the same thing. So, what I I think we could do is if if that's how it was presented that the DDA director is supposed to provide updates to council, I believe with your permission, I could investigate these and just ask for information on behalf of council. I do remember when we denied the legal fee coverage, part of which in that motion I was concerned with they had originally wanted to take the funds out of a spot that would provide health care expenses for a DDA director. We are moving to hire a DDA director. There wasn't anybody here from DDA to ask questions about were they not going to offer health care for that DDA director. And so, without being able to know their true intent, that was a denial on my end. Um They then went forth and got tech funds instead to do the legal fees and left that there. Just clarifying. So, yeah, I think the motion actually it was Mr.

Wigal Myer made the the motion, and it was like the the motion was to acquire the grant. I I couldn't find the motion to actually spend the money. So, they are a presumably, I'm not sure, spending money on legal fees. I asked the clerk treasurer Bone about that if they were spending money on that. She's like, "I haven't seen anything." So, They have not They have not paid. Using tech funds or budget money, they still owe the money to the attorney. That's my understanding of this. So, you think he would be able to tell me that? You think Mr. Steffenson would be able to tell me that? We could have saved a bunch of time. Um

So, I I really don't think Lisa might be able to answer number two as far as it's a basically a purchasing policy um question. Should we make a motion so before we go too far down a rabbit hole? I don't know. Well, I don't think we would know what the motion would be yet. Okay. I just wanted to make sure. Okay. I just wanted to make sure it's Well, the question is what's this motion going to be? Just to continue discussion, I guess, for the moment. So, I'd like to make a motion um to enable uh Councilman Koskela to speak on behalf of uh the Village Council regarding these five items that were discussed at the meeting. Do you need a motion to They won't talk to me. They won't No, they won't talk to him. They won't talk to me. So, I think I think I think to be just for rules of procedures, correct me if I'm wrong, I think we should make it a motion so that we can open it up for discussion, and then if you want to amend your motion to maybe it's just to make a motion to discuss, which we've already kind of begun. Make a motion to discuss, and then if you want to make to amend your motion after discussion uh to I don't like that. I don't think I need to amend it. I mean, if there's no support, I can amend it, I suppose, but I think I think I sent everyone the emails previously to the meeting. I think we need to have a discussion on it. I think you should I think I think you are correct, but item D is discussion of council. It's not a consideration. So, I think that we need to make a motion to discuss this and open it up for public comment. Then we can amend it for consideration, right? I'm learning, guys. It's only been a year.

[laughter]

Well, then I'd like to make a motion for item I'll remove my motion. Okay. I'd like to make a motion for item D for uh discussion with the DDA or about the DDA. Okay, motion by Windle. Second. Second by Kyer. All right. Any public comment on this item? Okay. And we see shaking heads. I'll kick it off. How do you think that this is going to play out any differently than what it has been playing out? So

they're they're they're not recognizing your authority, what makes you think that they would recognize ours?

So unless the contract that we signed is meaningless it says they will communicate with council. So I don't think it's fair to ask someone to come in here constantly and say, "Hey, what about this?" And then they're "Well, I don't know that question, so let's meet tomorrow for another special meeting." And then we say, "Okay, what about this?" And they say, "Well, I don't know that question either, so let me meet tomorrow for another special meeting. So I mean I don't think we have the actual contract for um uh the the the current contract, but I'm pretty sure it was on uh it was it was the same one for the first one, correct? For Miss Hillman? Is my understanding. Right. Was it exactly the same or did they amend it in between then? So Yeah, cuz it wasn't actually in the packet that that for that meeting. So I don't have the meeting, but it says keep the DDA board the contracts as city council, but I have to assume that they meant village council, local media and other organizations informed on a regular basis on the progress and programs projects through the case of verbal or written updates. So Let's start Let's start from the beginning. Um could we make the motion that you wanted if we wanted to? Could we appoint him the investigator because does isn't that a village manager duty? And then isn't it for the village manager to appoint investigatees? I would say this is not an investigation. I'm just trying to have a discussion. So I mean I've been doing investigating but I'm trying to have a discussion and

stonewalling you. I So if I were to have it my way, if I were to be able to say this is what I would like to happen I would like to be able to take I can talk to about some of these things right now. I would the he is at Kevin was inherited 90% of these, right? And he's trying to get his head above water figuring everything out and he serves a different master on this as well. Kevin's worked pretty I mean he's worked well with us on a staff level. For the most part we haven't had many issues. There are some outstanding issues and I'll talk about some of them. I would ask that you know, rather than have a motion I can just get direction from council based on discussion. Let me proceed with you know, seeing if I can get answers by our May meeting and be able to provide an update. If I'm not able to provide specific updates in regards to all of them to a satisfactory manner, then we look at other methods of investigation whether it's ethics, whether it's whatnot. I can't answer about the bylaws for the 501c3. Haven't really looked into the 501c3 side of this and I don't know I would have to look at how that is related to whether that's on the Main Street side, the DDA side because those are two different entities and how how that exists. Um we could talk to $500 reimbursement. DDA bylaws I can talk a little bit more specifically and I've talked to Kevin about that. I've said that there are some things that have happened in the past that we're going to be able to I believe that I mean we're going to talk about the Dickens Festival, we can talk about paying the lawyer. I think there's some things that we can work past. I think the DDA bylaws I don't think are one of them. We've given attorney Gilner's given specific guidance to them saying, "Hey not only do your bylaws according to PA 57, they're supposed to be approved by the governing body. You have them on your website, please take them down and get them approved by the governing body. Um and also in your original motion I think it was in October that it stated that it was supposed to go to the governing body. So there was they bypassed their own procedures as well. That one was one I said, "Hey, that I I think that is not something that we can just move past. We have to

actually correct those actions." Um And so that's something that Kevin and I are working on about you know, you know, moving forward. He would like just specific guidance. He wants to get you know, the opinion from our attorney. I said that's pretty easy. I think it's already been written. So we can go over that. The tech fund side of it my my request of that will be and this is not a motion for tonight, it'll be a future motion is that they have bills that they need to pay to their attorney. They shouldn't have probably done it without approval. They they already had their attorney work. They did it the attorney did the work on you know, the understanding that they were going to get paid for it. I would ask that maybe we put out a motion that and I think that attorney Gilner's already said that legal expenses are a authorized expenditure under PA 57. However, the the council can still say they they control the budget. They can say no. I would ask that you know, in the future I'll put out a motion that said that we will cover we'll make payments on the past legal expenses, but you know, for future legal expenses it has to be you know, that's a different discussion than paying the bill that that's already owed. I would rather them also use tech funds for the more appropriate expenses that would go through. And then the solicitation email, I know that's something that we've briefly discussed before, but it's something that I'd have to go back. Long way to say that I'm tracking most of these. I would like to have um I would like to be able to just have that administrative discussions with Kevin up until May rather than doing like a formal investigation. Kevin means well. He wants to do it. Everyone to kind of agrees to the same path forward that what success looks like for the village. If I may, my investigation is literally asking, "Where are the minutes authorizing this money to be spent?" And they say, "Nope, can't do that." I mean that is this is simple stuff. This is not I mean I'm not asking for personnel records and stuff they have to

dig through and and I think the whole aspect of us paying for prior legal fees. What would you do if one of your employees decided, "I'm just going to start spending money without your permission." And then then you say, "Oh, let's just go ahead and spend that money." They they already did it, but let's just go ahead and do it. They could have talked to us, they could have come to us and said, "Hey, we need this money for attorneys." But they didn't. And that that I think is is an incorrect procedure completely. And I and I agree. [laughter]

And I think that and again I will just defend Kevin a little bit. He wasn't here for that and he is you know, he doesn't want to I don't know that he would. I don't know what his feelings on this, but he is also responsible to his bosses. Absolutely. I don't think I don't think this is coming from Mr. Steffes. I I would have to imagine based off the contract terminology I read somebody is saying you don't have to talk to them. I mean I'm like I said, I'm not asking difficult questions here and for Mr. Steffes to come into a brand new job and not and just make up a decision, "Nope, I'm not telling you anything." I think that's going to be little weird for Mr. Steffes to do that. I haven't had I haven't had bad interactions with him. He just doesn't want to provide information. Council Is he required to if is he required to respond to our communications? Um without looking over the contract, I knowing the contract is you know, like not I know it verbatim, but knowing you know, what was looked at in that, I doubt they wrote that he is I think they probably wrote that he is responsive to the DDA chair and the DDA board and that it probably does not cover the council. So in previous meetings that I've attended where I did not sit here, I was in the audience, we did have a DDA director who came and gave reports in those meetings. Um I assumed cuz I did step into this when there was no DDA director that when the DDA director was hired they would also give reports like it had been in the past. So I did I thought that was a precedent that was set by the village a long time ago. Tim, I don't disagree with you on the idea that I think this could be an administrative discussion first. I do like to give somebody the benefit of the doubt of getting 90 days under their belt to really know what's going on in all aspects of where they're at. Um I

think that Kevin probably stepped into a hot mess of people. There was multiple interim directors, things like that. I get it. He's got to be um wading through some things and I do believe in giving some grace that you guys did not get um to have that, so I'm okay with starting with an administrative discussion. I do think that some of these things do need to be talked about for sure, but if you can get us some sort of answers in the May meeting, I'm okay with that. To adjust the elephant in the room, I think it would make the most sense to have the council liaison speak to DDA. Sure. But to you know, speak to that, I've been stonewalled. I've been denied information from both the chair and then the director as of yesterday when I asked for legal correspondence updates. So um I have no problem with going through Tim first and then if that you know, produces nothing, taking further action. Two points to consider. Our main point as Mr. Gilner has said, we control the purse. So the longer DDA personnel and I don't know who who's over there deciding to delay things decides to delay things, we have a hard deadline. Well, not really a hard deadline, but we have to have something done by the first meeting in June by our our charter for the budget. So I think it the longer we wait to do anything, the more doors shut. The more doors will shut for us. So and I and I think to miss miss I'm going to say it wrong, Kyer? Kyer. Okay. Okay. All right. I said it one time wrong. I was like, "All right, you can never say it that way." And then I say it that way sometimes. The concern, what if they don't respond? I mean we're supposed to be like it's our co-worker. Do they legally have to respond? I mean no, but a lot of this information is I could I could just FOIA and it's a government record and they would have to respond anyway. So, like, why? And I think Kicks Kevin and I

speak a lot. I mean, spend several hours probably a couple hours a day in my office like talking about different things. Not everything on here, but I think that um right now he went into a situation where both sides are very defensive. Everyone's got their like, you know, their fists waiting for something and he wants he truly wants to have a productive relationship with council where he can breathe and like do all those things. I think that the DDA and the same as council feel like we're both on the defensive right now when I think again, we all agree on what's healthy and what where we want like if we if we started there like all the things that we want to happen in Holly and what success looks like, we start the conversation with that together. 100% of the things that we talk about everyone would agree on in both rooms. It's just whenever we we start, you know, focusing on well, they're a separate body. What does that mean and such, but where does that actually interfere with things that we want to get done? And I don't think it does. If when we when we actually do it. We have some things we have to clean up. We have to clean up the bylaw procedure. We have to clean up some of these things. And both Kevin and I want to get those things done, but um it I you know, obviously I think there we have to we have to get people's defenses down in order to have those conversations with both parties. I think we hold ourselves to a high standard. We have censured our own one of our own members for speaking on or whatever. I don't know if I was closed or not, so I'm not going to say the whole whole thing. But then we have a potential instance where I'm trying to find out if one board member, two board members decided to speak on behalf of the entire DDA board and spend money and use the name and image of the DDA and the Village of Holly for what? I'm not sure. No, I think what Tim described earlier is they might be able to deal with some of this administratively and then if not, there's already processes laid out in how to go forward and whether we're accusing them of criminal activity or ethics issues. I'm not accusing anyone

of anything yet. I don't even know if there's is wrongdoing because can't like like I don't know if I read

So, I think one of these questions might be able to be answered here, Lisa. Sorry to put you on the spot. But um can you refer to the purchasing policy for that $500 expense of the Holly Post? I know that at a certain point you and I signed it when and I know they've been waiting like 6 months for it, but then Kevin came, he brought the exception letter cuz that was one of the items that we'd been missing was um we and so does that fall in line with the purchasing policy or was there never did there need to be and was there a a DDA board motion motion to spend that $500? I never I never did receive any per se minutes to authenticate that that purchase. However, we did have um the um purchasing policy says because it's a unique vendor that they can put a narrative to spend that particular money. We also had a discussion with Attorney Gildner about cuz it was it was said in one of the meetings that it was going to be going before legal and I believe that we had discussed that we were going to just go ahead with this because it was going to cost more in legal fees to research than that check. Mhm. But they said going forward they would have to abide by the purchasing policy. Okay. So, going forward they they do need to have board motions to spend over a certain amount of money on one item. Well, they have to So, yeah, again, there's specific things whether it's bids or and again, they didn't have the bid because they were saying that that was a unique publication and that they can't they couldn't get bids because it's a unique publication. They can't go get bids for something That's what the exception letter was was for, but what about a board motion to spend over a certain amount? This is the piece that Jim is really speaking

I think the part that is very confusing if a motion is not necessary, there are subsequent motions to spend money with that.

Let's get the answer first. If they want to spend $500 on something and say it requires bids, but they got bids. Do they need a motion from the board to spend $500 um the um that thing? No, because again in our purchasing policy it clearly states that the that the the village manager can spend up to $5,000 with $10,000 on emergency um emergency items or purchases. And so again, that didn't meet that criteria. The criteria was that they had were supposed to have bids. They didn't have bids and then go down in the purchasing policy a little farther down and then it says if you can if you cannot solicit bids, then you would do a narrative to explain why you didn't solicit the bids because it's a unique vendor. Okay. So, as long as it's in the budget, they don't have to have a motion for each item. Correct. All right. So, Jim, there is the answer to that.

if you recall last meeting I specifically asked Mr. Gildner if I were to hire Daniel to do snow plowing, is that legal? If I if they wanted to snow plow at the the village offices, is that legal? He said, "Yes." I said, "What if I used village money?" He said, "No, you can't do that because I don't have any power by myself. The only way I have power is in the board." I but I think those are two different discussions. I think the discussion about procedures and then there I think what you're talking about is conflict of interest, too, No, I mean there's I mean it's everything here. So,

Well, that applies too because he's talking about how Hillary is um works for the Holly Post and is a member of the DDA. So, who decided to give the Holly Post $500? Did it need board approval? And that's what I was saying. I think that that's a conflict of interest discussion rather than we were talking procedurally did they do the right thing, which So, so you're under So, if I'm understanding correctly, you could have one member of the DDA board as long as there's no other uh vendors that do this, they could spend it whatever they want to spend and they don't need permission. Shouldn't be the Cuz that's what

We were in a unique situation because of the lack of a director. Now having a director, isn't there you know, their minute their executive director handling the administrative portion, then it's not a board member. They're acting on behalf of the entire board doing it. I believe the director is So, Linda was acting as director at the time, so she had the authority to choose the to buy the thing because the item was budgeted for. That's my reasoning. so if if that's correct, there should be a motion somewhere and I couldn't find a motion granting Mrs. Stofer Stelfer the the authority to do that. was written out in the old bylaws. That No. Yes. It's not there. Sure. I mean, do you got it right there?

So, I do have here. The old ones, not the ones that they have on the website.

Well, I mean, the ones that are actually active. The Well, you're going to have to go by the ones that were active at the time. Well, the ones that are active, that's the one That's what I'm saying. The only ones that are active right now are the original ones. The the new ones have not been approved by council. Right. Yeah. So, Mr. Gildner, am I off base here? Well, You have a floor, Mike. I think the discussion has has veered uh from the discussion to the answers to the specific questions, which I have not researched. I will say this to to the extent it may impact uh your decision. I received an email late this afternoon from the attorney for the DDA uh asking my availability uh this week to talk about uh the fact that uh council members were asking for specific items of information. I responded, gave my availability. Um I anticipate having some discussion with her about whatever her thoughts are. Uh that's the extent of what I know on this uh on this uh subject. So, if council is leaning towards well, we'll leave it to the administrator first to ask those questions, I should have uh some input from the DDA's attorney by that point as well. Would be my hope. That's going to be a really expensive conversation. Did they have a motion to approve that expense? Are they paying for ours, too? Allegedly they're not I don't know how they're going to pay for an attorney without using TIFF funds. Okay. So, I mean, I think you can see the consensus of council is leaning towards having Tim um handling it. Your motion at the time had been discussion.

Discussion, yep. Which we did. And we don't need a motion to give me guidance based on our discussions here. We just give you a directive. I will say I just want to go over them real quick the points to make sure I have an understanding of how we want to move forward. So, the bylaw bylaws of the 501c3, I need to I need to research that further to kind of understand, you know, where our parameters are within those. I know that there's specific rule like when you set up a 501c3, you're supposed to have a website, you're supposed to have your bylaws on the website readily available. I I think. I can't I you know, I'm obviously not running a 501c3, but I have gone through the process before. Well, and if the if the director does anything for the 501c3, does that I mean, cuz those still aren't technically village funds. They're using TIFF funds to do it. So, some of the TIFF funds do pay for the director. Yeah, you you're going to have to look into that.

So, that's something I have to do. The $500 reimbursement, I don't know if that item is closed. I kind of feel like there is uh unacceptable, I would say. Well, the purchasing policy $500. The purchasing policy piece was tended to, but you're looking at the conflict of interest now. It's not a conflict of interest. Mr. Gildner last meeting said, "Me as a board as a council member I don't have the authority to spend $500 by myself." It's not even a conflict of interest. You don't have the I do not have the authority to spend $500 by myself. I can't I cannot just say, "Village of Holly, give me 500 bucks. I paid Daniel to to shovel." Okay. So, he Add to that one that the DDA did not confirm Linda as the director. We don't I don't even know if Linda made the purchase. I don't know I don't know anything. So If that's the assumption. Do you know anything on that? Well, they had an interim director at the time. I I don't know I don't know I don't know the timeline either when the payment was made or anything. So I frankly remember very little bit something about that. I remember us having discussion but I can't remember when. I you know assuming let let me do a little research and if it was now I would say if it turns out it was you know Jennifer or Christina the previous interim directors that made the purchase I believe we all are in agreement that it's covered. Yeah. Okay. All right. But there's no conflict of interest that we're good with that. The DDA bylaws I already understand Mike and I are on the same page. We already know like the expectation of the council that that we that they should get pulled down that they need to come to council for approval. And so that is the expectation. The tech funds portion um uh the of the the spending of the the money for the attorney again I will go back to Kevin and discuss this for his board. I like I said my recommendation will be that you know we cover the I understand that it might be a point of contention but cover past expenses but you know set it up in a manner that it is not approving any additional expenses

for legal funds so we can pay the attorney so that we don't have any issues there but make sure it's understood that any further expenses have to be approved within the budget. Call to order. I had to go outside. So you would you would You would tolerate one of your employees spending outside the budget? Do we need to Flags are rolling around out there. Okay. It's the retired American flag. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Price Yes. You would tolerate your employees spending outside budgets? I mean they willingly just said no we're going to do what we want and they didn't attempt to talk to anybody. It again it I'm trying to advocate for Kevin in a way forward you know that we can you know move past this and have him be able to do this administratively uh like take care of these in the future. I Once again it's not Kevin here that's he's just like you said he's doing what he's told. So it's not Kevin's responsibility on these past month these funds. Kevin has nothing to do with that. Like I said he's been he's been cordial. He's just doing what he's been told. So I don't I don't understand why Let's get answers first. Let's just get answers first. And then the solicitation email would be the last thing um and I don't know what further we can do about that that email where it was solicited for uh that if if there was no conflict of interest um I don't know if that's something we just want to say hey that's in the past or if that's something that we actually want to research more into. I didn't really get a consensus of council. Sorry. I'll give you an example. We have a local reporter who was concerned that Ms. Brandon was uh harassing residents. So what did she do? She contacted our our community and said are any government funds being used to advertise for President Brandon? So I think if if we were using government funds The answer to that question is no by the way.

That was a free product. I think if we were using government resources there would be government resources for our own purposes there would be a lot of upset people out there. So I Jim I agree I think there needs to be checks and balances that's part of why government works right? People check and balance on that. I don't disagree with you on the solicitation or I just think that let's ask Tim and attorney Gilbert those questions. And then we can make that's my opinion and we'll make those. So I don't think we should have to pay attorney Gilbert for that. Well if we want to contact him I'd like to see what they have to say if they're only contacting through attorneys. Which is absurd in any community on the record. But I also want to know about the contract and them being a liaison like you said and my experience as coming to these meetings the previous director came and gave reports at council meetings and I don't know why all of a sudden that's not expected or part of the precedent that has been set. It may be coming in these new

reports? Because there was that relationship and it just happened. My only concern is again I think we veered off into the merits of these discussions as opposed to the consensus appears to be leave it to administration to follow up on those issues and he was just identifying these are the issues. And with respect though Mr. Mr. Price I was supposed to say Mr. Gilbert Mr. Price was trying to propose solutions as well. So I think we did need to have some of that discussion to to guide him a little bit. Okay. Let's move on. So was there We have We do have a motion and a second.

Well the motion and the second was to discuss and we did discuss. Okay. No it was to discuss not to take an action. Did I ask you guys public comment? I did right? Okay. Thanks. Um Lisa will you please read old business item A. Consideration council resolution 2026-022 authorizing Downtown Development Authority recommended budget amendments to the fiscal year 25-26 budget. Okay. Do I have a first to consider item A of old business? I'll make the motion to consider item A for old business. Second. We have motion by Wendel. We have a second by Cascola. Okay.

[clears throat]

This item was postponed from our last meeting and we asked the village attorney to provide an opinion so that we can make an informed decision. Thank you Madam President. I'm prepared to do that. Okay. I uh I I previously uh had some questions and concerns about uh a specific item in that budget and that was um uh a line item going towards the Dickens Festival that the DDA proposed. Uh and as I said I had questions and concerns about whether or not that was consistent with their their uh their tip plan. Um since then I've gone back uh done some more research uh dove into the tip plan and uh have no issues with that particular expenditure uh today. And that was the only one that was raised the last time. Um I have no issues uh I think it's consistent with their tip plan and uh apart from that historically uh the Dickens Festival is a mainstay of this community and um uh I have no issues at all with that item. Okay. Public comment? No public comment hearing unseen them. Okay. Discussion. Well first I'd like to thank Mr. Gilbert for going back and and looking for that. I know that we all wanted to see that go through and to be able to say yes. That's that's great news. So thank you for doing that. So this falls under marketing something like that. Promotions I think is the wording. Council? Um I do believe at our last budget meeting when Kevin was there he talked to this so it is people are able to go back and see that where he mentioned that this is a promotions thing and where they were moving one money to the

other and cover right? It's on their It's well increasing the online item for Dickens on their budget yes. Right. I appreciate that he came to talk on that on a Saturday. Okay. Anyone else? Clerk please call the roll. Cole? Yes. Weinbrenner? Yes. Cascola? Yes. Kier? Yes. Wendel? Yes. Brandon? Yes. Motion carried. Our next regular meeting is Tuesday May 12th at 2026 2026 at 6:00 p.m. This meeting is adjourned. Daniel great work on the sinkhole.