Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

good evening everyone like to call the uh Village of Holly Planning Commission meeting to order for February 26 2025 could we all stand for the budge of Allegiance please flag un America stand thank you could we have a roll call please Campbell Christian here Lacy here CA here cross here Wallace here Everly yes kman herey here had anyone heard from uh Campbell all righty so hopefully things are going okay for her so moving on to the approval of tonight's agenda everyone have a chance to look it over and is there anything that needs to be amended or can we approve it we have a motion second and we have a second all in favor I any opposed none so move to approval agenda all right looking for an approval of the minutes from December 18th 2024

before we dooll call Mr chair uh we did get a uh email late from the last Planning Commission meeting in December where gayen uh was not excused for his absence um once we got back in the office next morning email I don't know if you want to amend the minutes to show that that would be an excused or not but I just want to bring it up before we that if you got an email staying he was going to not be here I so move that we uh amend the Amendments if you want to make that in your motion yes we still have a second all in favor hi any opposed so moved as amended can I get a volunteer to rear statement of purpose please the mission of the Holly Village government is to enhance our community's quality of life our organization strives for quality services responsive action to Citizen requests and a cost effective government we promote CI a proactive decision making and Environmental Quality most importantly we shall always serve the citizens H the village of Holly will be a prestigious historical Village that is a green residential Oasis from the city and the center of Commerce andity for the region thank you Angela all right moving on to item number six on our agenda being public comments anyone in the audience that would like to come forward and speak before the commission on anything that

is not on the agenda um you're more than welcome to do so if there's anyone that comes forward just state your name and address and we'll be glad to hear from you seeing the rush to the microphone we will move on to a public hearing um can I have a motion open public hearing please I'll make the motion to open public hearing um 2024 3 consideration for site plan review for the property located at 15191 North Holly Road ID number i01 27151 016 we have a motion and second I have a roll call please cross yes Christian yes Lacy yes ccala yes Wallace yes Everly yes kenman yesy yes all right public hearing is now open if there's anyone in the audience that wishes to come forward uh regarding the public hearing on this matter um please step forward and speak if you want to if not no one moving forward can we have a motion to close public hearing I have motion to close the public hearing second and we have a motion second did roll call again please Lacy yes Everly yes Christian yes Wallace yes cross yes kinan yes kasca yes oky yes all right moving on to Old business discussion of capital improvement process have we gotten any further thank you chair yes so I would

like to update the commission this afternoon we did finalize some uh verbage with new Village manager the new Administration on where we were with the capital improvement process what needs to be done uh most importantly getting the contract signed for row more importantly Alex to continue the process and complete the project on a timeline that was provided to uh Council back in December so uh we are moving ahead uh I can tell you that during our discuss some adjustments to the capital Improvement plan that was what we've been working on I think we're going to include some more uh tax infrastructure um Alex brought up maybe it wasn't Alex it was illage manager Mr Price a good way to look at a capital Improvement plan is that you can take your municipality and flip it upside down and Shake It Whatever doesn't fall should be in your Capital Improvement plan uh which was a great for me gave me a whole new understanding of what maybe a capital impr should include uh he also provided uh examples of brand Havens uh we're not quite to that level yet but I would love to see us in the future to be maybe up that level so I'm excited they kind of gave this project a little bit more fresh air new Breath of Life uh and he has agreed with ro to execute the contract and or as um and you know uh the new administration's been under an intense amount of pressure just because there's just I feel a lot of things that need to be addressed and they are both handling it with professionalism and unfortunately today at was my to present Capital Improvement

plan uh I know we were coming right down to the wire with the meeting tonight at 6 but uh the positive is that the contract is going to be signed we're going to move forward we're going to meet our timelines and it will be very similar tole You' all seen in theast all right with your kind of analogy of turn it upside down and shake it and see what falls out um I guess from that standpoint does that mean you're looking at adding more items to it yes sir okay um kind of going back in history um five years ago probably uh we had a very extensive uh Capital Improvement plan uh along with that in our uh um future like you know moving forward for the uh master plan and at that time we were kind of advised well you know if you're not looking and and it's really addressing these things on the plan you're really wasting your time by having them on the plan because if you got 52 items and you know you're never going to get to those 52 items another way to look at it too is uh your kids come to you with a Christmas list and the Christmas list is valued at 1,200 bucks but the budget set at 400 right you're going to look for priation and say well the first your 1300s well clearly it's not going to be that well your second is 200 so chances are that's probably going to be fun um you know that was also brought up in this afternoon which kind of us some content granted there's going to be some on there are going to be wish lists but I think that they're pertinent for the village to have sustainability in the

future such as infrastructure roads sidewalks um you know uh buildings and grounds uh Parks uh some of the other things that were on the um but there were a couple things that were on our previous list um that wouldn't quite fit that analogy of you fli even that list Christmas everything at least you have a plan in place and you're it so that's kind of idea is not just to create a listate use that list AVH all right I understand that's something that Jeremy's been working on for almost two years now almost eight I started with gold director uh then we started with Nick and um really we're getting closer the website's been updated we have a website there's still a little bit of things that we have to work on but the capital Improvement plan was one of the big

items that has really in process okay all right thank you for that Clarity all right anybody else have any other questions hearing no one speak up moving on to new business item number nine on the agenda uh first item on there is item a uh 2024 d003 consideration of a site plan review for the property located at 15191 North Holly Road partial ID IH 01271 151 016 um Ro would you like to move for or is any the uh public like to speak so you have in of you today is proposed scoter Drive is C cm

you have amended the site plan that was presented to remove the uh dumpster enclosure right the dumpster there is one site I think they're keeping the dumpster enclosure but they're using the tinted CMU versus a painted CMU which will give it so that if it does become compromised or uh the chipping will be tinted all the way through and will not require as much of a maintenance code violation or issues moving forward um so I would have to back to you yeah so the issue here isie it's up to you guys to DET that's sufficient the plan commission I think it's solid find other sites so they have on furthermore on design standards given that this is a smaller build those in the neighborhood if you will and it's only a drive this is not one where Pat come up visit this is only a drive small scale building you would see in the area and therefore the windows are talking about

l% is there a walk up window for customer service or just a drivethru it's just a drive um roof line is a flat roof there are no Dormers as well as a drive so however the fac is broken up with materials it's got Windows canopies pi and that theal areal accents kind aides overall small building with that being does is you know strict on some of these design materials but I think we have to take into consideration Contex of the building that your village is pretty built out and you have know wiri neighborh indes and so I think the moral story here in the r is that your zoning ordinance has a lot of elements that are required of all those various uses which I think is well intended but I think nature of this use the intensity of this use is quite different from other commercial building because

it's just a smaller footprint drive through coffee shop so I think could be some exceptions that may consider was that hadity constru building fur taxe didn't take up land rather wasment Pro I think might be a commission okay I don't mean to be a pain I'm just looking for clarification during the I believe it was the Montgomery Building I remember there was a lot of back and forth about uh total glass and I thought at the time at least this is how I interpreted what I was told that we have zero discretion when it comes to that there was no there was no sorry we didn't even have the ability to to discuss it and say well we can wave this we can wave that it was just it was like no the way that's written there is zero room for interpretation yeah when we discussed the glass at um at the Montgomery location that's why he went to um uh zoning board of appeals twice um because we could not um wave that in any way coms Theiss Z

Bas youate that's Vis commity and vision Z there support sometimes zoning ordinance is deficient and or maybe so there's a couple options here a planing commission can wave things that they feel is necessary they can they can the to stands or they can requ them to gos for VAR those are kind of three options thing that's the most important of those is that the plan commission is consistent is consistent how treat so one comes in and asks for a Vari or W Whatever May they're all treated the same way so you do have STS sometimes you can deviate from them given the different circumstances of what it may be so the weight is really the the use and you know how much of a discretion they're coming off of that so you're trying to balance the things out greater public health safy so we mentioned sorry I interrupt you so yeah so I think the thing is is taking the context that this is kind of a different use yes it's commercial but it's a small footprint drivethru use and it just isn't a lot of real estate to add in the door the pitch Roots all these other things so the appli is brought to you you know a Comon for building you know some design El you know the appearance of it I think they in I believe in the intent of trying to provide quity use

elements talking about the other subject property had mentioned I mean that's a very different building that's that's a building that is yes Z commercial to provide those buildings but the footprint and the size use for whatever purposes but in the future that could be a commercial or industrial whatever type use but it's just it's a it's a different uh you know I guess vehicle for commercial activity it's kind of like comparing a moped bike with full siiz truck and so there's not a lot of space to put you know all the things you would have a pickup truck you know on a moped but in this case you know you have a smaller building that's trying to put as much of those design elements in there so what I mean to say is my my critique is that your your zoning standards for designs are the same for everyone across the entire Village well you have a historic downtown you have NE commercial you have commercial uses and Industrial so it's kind of a tough match to compare these things so I think um you know if there was as your consultant I would say that this would be an applicant a project that may be Merit for potential waiver and that's up to you guys to decide I understand the common sense of it we were specifically told by that we had no say what yeah there are there were certain design items that were not negotiable and I believe that the window percentage was one of those right and so you do have that but that's that that that building is a is a different type of building I know it's commercial but we're talking about just a different type of building Al together because it's all about not just what it is now what it could be in the future so that building could easily change hands

in five to 10 years and then what do you do with it right this is very specific very customized it could be another coffee shop it could be another type of fast food oriented service which is drive-thru and that is just a new use that's occurring Nationwide this is not the only company that's doing that it's not the only applicant we've seen these in all sorts of communities all across Michigan America where they're having drive-thru coffee shops drivethru type things just based on convenience have we G to stud and I was I was on on the commission when this started so I'm coming a little bit late do we have a study of how it's going to affect the other businesses that is losing half of the parking lot they've met the parking requirements they they've met that's not on the list what's on the list is anything that would be considered outstanding and not meetting your standard so that's what's on that letter of listed items and so that's what I was speaking to parking has been taken care of all the other things drive-thru capacity parking whatever it is those are all these are only things that are outstanding that the plan commission needs to decide on or to either wave or require of the applicant or provide more information Jimmy you want to say something yes sir thank you um was there a uh a light plan submitted oh sorry a light plan submitted that typically is required I believe for signage and lighting all the lights on the yeah I might have missed it I didn't see a formetric uh evaluation no there are there are existing lighting on the site right but is not the lighting being affected let me look my

files I think where it set you're going to lose at least one light pole um that's in that parking lot um and is there Lighting on the side of the building sorry I'm looking through the the plan sheets right now now I well I wasn't on that uh on the commission but I did speak to um the individual that had the property on North Sagen with the building with the the window situation and we talked about applying things fairly if we completely change our ordinances for this it just seems like the last applicant's kind of getting a short end of the stick here because I think he in that instance he actually had it at 20% and then we forced him to go to 30% was already built wasn't it we were told we it was not built it was part of did not have the option to address or um wave that that stand yeah like on most of the other items here the colors facade um the roof line dorm Windows it says it should it should do such and such it doesn't say shall do this whereas the windows definitely say there's no wiggle room I go with the longterm argument the future use um again running a coffee shop you got to have the wall space for the infrastructure and for your cooking and your bathroom and all that stuff you don't have any room for Windows um just to have them a very tiny tiny building that it's only ever going to get used for a tiny tiny purpose in the future

whereas where this one we're talking about it's right on the strip it's on the corner so it actually had a double setback which was part of the problem why they had I mean they had to meet that 30% on both sides so I would say I would be okay with giving them an exemption because this is such a specific small building I I agree with you Common Sense wise absolutely I'm just I'm still stuck on the so what do we say to the last individual that we shot down and had him pay 500 bucks twice I know we we didn't even get to have a discussion about it because we were told no that cannot be done so who was the one that told us no it was the previous oh so it was the other planner Ro yeah and unfortunately that I'm trying to think that is that is how it came down three to five plan commission means I go to a week I don't recall ever saying something like that you know it that it is how it came down um and I guess as we're discussing and everybody's thinking all right um as far as the dumpster goes I would like to see cut block there versus a a uh stained all the way through block um because that particular dump your enclosure is going to be seen by the public from all sides versus it being behind a building um type thing um the uh other idea which I I knew the glass was going to uh raise concerns and it's not real clear on the uh um drawings and or presentation but it looked like going around the building there was the uh

areas where you're putting up signage um along the building uh both front back and the other side and I'm assuming those were just advertisement menu type of uh items is that correct on the building itself or like the main um I would ask you Podium your name for the record and unfortunately with the things being so small it it's hard to call out but for instance I'm looking on a sheet as a pital sheet which is marked a2.1 and a2.2 uh and even at that there's uh items on there it says item like 25 25 and 25 and you go down to 25 on The Ledger and and it's so darn small I can't read it from here right now um sign panels all right sign [Applause] panels all right would it be possible um I know it's possible it's just a matter of you know whether it's beneficial all right to get over the glass issue is making those nonfunctional windows uh that you're going to be putting your advertising or your menus on chair I do believe there's a requirement that temporary advertising can only be so long on glass though or window advertising is only allowed to be there for so long I believe this is a menu item correct me yeah speaking that way yes uh so the proposal was make the the the signs into windows and then put advertising on the window

Windows how long the window can be covered essentially that's your signage are you suggest Jake Von um address 6168 boxfire Circle Clarkson Michigan are you suggesting that um to add more I'm I'm not quite following what you're I'm just trying to think out of the boxes so that we're meeting our statutes okay and I'm looking at from the standpoint is okay our window right there that we have in this building all right if it was a dead window that had a wall behind it that because you got your equipment up against it and it was just outside you saw a window and it's glass we don't care what's behind it we don't care if it's blocked across it right you still have glass yeah forver ad so just the little background where we came from there the model Scooter's Coffee actually they only have one window on that side and knowing the window requirement we were evaluating how do we get more windows on this side so we can meet the code and we were able to add two the problem is when you on that side the way that it's set up is there's the bathroom that's in the back then we have all the electrical running through the walls for our freezers and refrigerators so um initially looking at it we were it's difficult we were we're trying already The Proposal was that the chair correct me if I'm wrong sir the instead of putting Hardy Board there you just put a fake window yeah so it doesn't go through

you're not going to see in the bathroom you're just going to see the glass have it tinted and it's a piece of glass there instead of party board or tinted bathroom window that something we've done before this is Abby she's with the Abby earler she's with scooters corporate Abby earler scooters corporate not from Michigan but yeah so in our restroom um putting a window there would be difficult because especially on that wall we have the grab bars um which cannot go into glass um so even with rearranging the bathroom we have our mop sink and our water heater it's a very tight bathroom um so then our option is to fur out the wall and essentially then the window would go to nothing um but every square inch of these kiosks is meticulously engineered um as are all the walls so then that puts us in a position of you know even 5 in extra in your bathroom that can put us out of clearance for um Ada so we've added the second window from our typical prototype um and you know trying to meet y'all in the middle and find a solution because I know Jake's really excited about com raised windows that are not where grab bars are they are up you know like clear story Windows horizontal Windows you know clear story windows but I still I still don't know why I me you're addressing it that we're going to move it the window move it in like for instance on my house I just have a normal wall this thick and an exterior wall I have a panel of glass this big and then there's space right behind it so I don't I don't understand why there would be a 5-inch kickout if it's just a flat panel fake window cuz where the I guess on that wall where the window would go we would have the um toilet grab bars but you still got all your framing there yeah doesn't we're not saying a window they a go right through the wall like a normal window

we're saying a fake faad you know we would we would just need to frame out a wall so that we could drill into the studs of the wall to utilize the wall space right your handrails are not going into the Hardy Board outside so if they're not going into the Hardy Board I don't they shouldn't go into a fake window I agree you know it's you you you can buy windows that are really not structurally through a wall you know it's like basically you can get glass panels frame glass panels to put up there at some point you know to an extent right at some point though I mean you know if we have the ability to if we do have the ability which we do now to we have some discretion as to the window percentage you know do we have to you know we're kind of just trying to achieve the letter of the law and I understand that now does this open us up to the prior applicant for suing us for all the money that he wasted on us this is a separate application this is not you know someone else comes before you and says you know I have another drive through your coffee shop then you might want to you know think a little bit about you know what we're doing with that but this is a little bit of a different you know that that wasn't my question my question was we just like we just had somebody within the past couple years come through and wanted a variant for Windows he lives in town here and everyone kept saying no no no so he's going to come up to us and say well you get sued for anything I could get sued for throwing this pen so sure you could but what are the what are the chances I I'm not going I'm not practice law but I mean the reality is is you can be sued for anything I don't know I I really couldn't answer that that's just um I don't think it's likely but then again anything can happen for I think also we have to look at the intent of the building of the Charn brought up a great point the building size and nature the building that we're

referencing at 610 nor that building can be used for multiple different uses uh you can put in 50 different this building here you're going to be very limited to what you can put in you're not really setting a precedence except for this type of building so if another out building kios structure comes through to the Planning Commission and they don't meet that 30% and you make them go now I think that's where the precedent has been set but I think that you're not they're not Apples to Apples I think they're a little bit different I I agree with your mindset as far as building usage go by the structure of the building all right but by the size of the building the shape of the building an attorney could go in there and want an office you wouldn't have any place to park you got the all the parking there right there that you're not going to use for your drivethru you got plenty of room for parking for a lawyer there for the employees I think there's oreven right here I believe be the building itself correct right here this is right here the building and then we'll have the drive through this um and concrete like that correct noing either um this is just a an island island

dve this iskes and and I apologize we did have to add those to meet you got so let's figure this out yes hang on how many communities have you had this Mr wait a minute I need you to address the chair and then the chair will address from there would that make it up to they could get there yes okay I it would be a quick and easy right there on side window on the there's your be% you know different would be just a window in my opinion yes but there again I'm not a contractor either you know so that's a question chair that's a question for the applicant if that's even possible I'm not sure I'm not I'm not a building official I'm a planner so I think you know the question here is we're just you know the parking has been addressed all the things it's it's it's it's part of the overall campus if you will for the whole shopping district there um so right I mean the only thing I think we're really talking about is the material of the of of the dumpster enclosure and then you know is there any of those design elements that the plan commission deems are absolutely necessary or not like I said right even in the past you if if a planing commission had provided waivers for everyone under any circumstance but then felt it was inclined in the best purpose in in interest of the public and

the zoning ordance that to start correcting things to either require folks to go through another process or waving things that's the discretion of the Planning Commission so if things were done incorrectly in the past Planning Commission can can change course in its best interest and then therefore be consistent with have so just because things were done 30 years ago one way or even 18 months ago One Way um it's still left for the Planning Commission to make that decision I understand that yes you got a question so we had talked to you case what in the future I am just like any other business I'm sure there's successes and failures do do they know what other unfortunately failed scooters have been used for is there anything that if if they went on business is there anything or any further regulations we'd have to put inose if somebody wanted to make it a burger joint a drive-through burger joint or a onean lawyer's office would they have to go through any additional or can they just move in and turn a sign on and go work chair so just to answer that if if a new use goes in they have to go through the same process everyone else does so they have to come to the plan Department go through the process put an application determine what's next and therefore in your case you guys don't have zoning permit so everything would come before the PC for review so um we can't play crystal ball and say what's going to happen with you know scooter site in 30 years I mean it isn't really if the zoning allows for a lawyer's office to be in there or a doctor's office sure the building structure does not come back before the plan commission for the use if it's zoned you you guys do that here okay it it doesn't right unless they and they have to go through the billing department for all the other approvals and that I guess that was my point if if we make the exception for them and it

gets turn into something else we it's kind of how it is well it just becomes an existing non-conformity and you have every Community has tons of those there's tons of existing nonconformities that happen they're totally legal and if something were change they could have to bring into Conformity at one point you know or at least not expand the non-conformity meaning that they would have to then remove windows to enlarge a nonconformity that's how that would work does anybody else have any comments or items they like to talk or um I'll take a stab at it but I might have my civil engineer be the expert from because of the parking spaces we're going to occupy and we're it's not at separate parcel um the total calculation of the Hol Food supermarket the rest of those tenants in there have to allow so many parking spots and yeah that they're not necessarily for us or for our use they're to ensure the entire shopping center stays in compliance with the parking that they need so the in reality the parking spaces required for the entire complex includes their area the only that's really as long as the spots are meet by the space being taken up on the physical lot as long as they have their handicap spots right by their building that still power count yeah on average four or five employees will be parking there so that's that's what we're

hoping anyone else have any other questions or does anybody have so Jim I'm still having trouble with the the window ordinances I know our our consultant says that and I think we have two differences of opinions here we've been told previously by a consultant we can't do this and now we're being told we can do this um and that that troubles me a little bit even though you know I've looked at all their not all of them I've looked at a number of other buildings and another other communities via street view or just the pictures they provide and they all pretty much look the same but um it does concern me a little bit that we're just going to like just ignore an ordinance that Village Council has established and said this what you this is what you must follow and then we're going to say nope we don't have to follow it so I I think that that could be problematic for me um the uh what was the other thing I had I think everything else was all right though so chair just to clarify I've said it's up to a plan commission for for consideration I didn't say you had to do anything you guys have the choice to make what's in the best interest of this community that it's absolutely within your purview and as um as uh the word I'm looking for here is um yeah I think everybody understands you understand so it's up to you guys it's a different animal than all the other applicants it's a different little slightly different Contex if there was one this could be it and I think you know if if you want to ask of the applicant to make adjustments that's also within your purview as well I'm just trying to present the the building and its use and context of the community and how your zoning ordinance is written in such a way that you would have the same things apply to an industrial use or any use and so it's a little challenging with your zoning ordinance I know it's what it is however it's it's up to your community as as up to the

plan commission to determine um you know how that is exercised right and I know that there's someone else who no longer works for RO for a lot of reasons um but you know they we were missing well so were others so with everything said angel I have one quick thing what I'm hearing you say that the best interest of the community is it the best interest to have an empty parking lot there with nothing there or is it in the best interest of Holly to have businesses that are thriving and that are bringing people to H so that they will spend their money so that we will have more Revenue what is in the best interest of our community personally I don't think Windows being a fake window there is not it doesn't matter the best interest is having something there having a business there L you wanted to say something okay Jim again thank you chair so why have ordinances then if that's the case so why why are we not having Council changes so we have rules there's a process to do it and I don't think it's our job to but it is it is our job definitely I don't believe so we have two difference of opinions now and he's already admitted he's not an attorney so and neither are you and neither exactly correct I agree excuse me yeah I shouldn't I just I just have other questions chair so I oh sorry go ahead I I I believe that's exactly why we're here to my understanding is to to we do

have some some leway some discretion and if if we you know being told that we do that that that's so my question to that would be what other what other things can we decide to change then every everything we can just decide to change then chair can I just add something I providing you services on Planning and Zoning the question was am I getting sued that is of legal opinion I'm not a practicing attorney I'm not going to be practicing law long I'm providing you planning and zoning services and that's within my purview and that's what I answered yes okay I guess what I have to say to your point is that just like a planning um you know a fiveyear plan is a living document ordinances have to be living to a certain extent because we've never had a little build a Hut in the parking lot put before us before this is a new whole new thing and so you know you the use the size um the fact that people aren't going to be going in and out that it's like situated it's a do they call it an out lot I don't even think in this case it's more an in lot um it's just something that no one ever envisioned when they wrote the ordinances and so I think that's why we have and I believe we do have the latitude um to make that argument that this is a new Beast for us and we're doing the best that we can then wouldn't The Logical way to go would be change the ordinance to have a barefooted ruling that way we that way we're not we have it we have it listed that if you're under X number feet you you have window variations if you're if you're over I don't disagree but in the meantime does everything go on hold until we change our window ordinance because that would be another year and I don't think that's

fair to business and I don't think it's fair to the community I think this is a great bu the location is good we've got a whole trailer park full of young people that need a job that they could walk to I think in terms of the community the best thing to do is to prove this corporate which is means it's been proven in other communities besides us I don't know why we got to be the weirdos all the time but I really do think that we should say send it to the zoning people and say look we've had this come up it may come again you made the change in Z that's not our resp well it is our responsibility well okay then if it gets referred to us and okay Jim you had something you had your hand up I recall okay um the the concept you know of having what you consider you know like this scenario with the windows says 30% as a general rule that is what we are expecting and we are looking at a scenario where it's really not possible to meet that and that's when we have the ability to to wave or make exceptions and um you know I and I understand that and so you know if we look at that we may have been misinformed the previous time as to how rigid that item was in the process um and that it it actually is not that rigid that we do have the flexibility to work with it then you know I I agree it's it's great to move

ahead with it um it's wrapping our heads around that shifting from what we were told to what we're now told and what we can do and you know making sure that we are doing what we are allowed to do um you know so um my thought other than having a nicer looking dumpster area um that meets our standards um you know I can let Windows go if we have that permission to make that adjustment and for the most part I agree with you I want us the business there it's the it's the differences of rigidity it was my impression we have ordinances they're rigid if they don't have if they're if they're they're not solid but every building's not solid every building's not solid everything's got a little tweak to it and some things we have flexibility the ordinances spell out we can change some of them say shall and that's right that's that's my difficulty so I think that we've beat the horse pretty good I think this is a great test case for us to as much as I appreciate and I would like to enforce the 30% I've been in the corporate world they designed these building they spent millions of dollars design they it can't be done pretty good chance it can't be done and we don't want we don't want to have some fake window something that's just going to look you know not something we'd be proud of in a year or two years so if we take this opportunity to allow them to move forward but also take the further step to adjust the ordinance so we're not in this situation again because if if anybody has another tiny

building or something they want to do more than likely today they just going to be corporate sponsored or corporate back or franchise going to have the same issue if we're were allowed um under by our our guy than all um to to give a variance and it brings Holly in because the other choices are two choices excuse my language make a new um business owner not real happy while com to Holly or lose it completely if if it's already approved for the parking lot and it's going to help it go faster let's do the right thing in adjust our shortcomings down the road because when that ordinance put in place I'm sure nobody thought about a little tiny building with all that said again um I think we've beat the horse quite a bit uh we can entertain a motion um my still my still yes if you have question um about the dumpster can we make that kind of Cor to the dumpster to meet our standards with the type of block that we require I'm not sure um you have a minut yes yeah did you come up state your name and address please good evening uh John penor 10286 West Bath Road Woodle Township Miss I'm the civil engineer for the project uh and to your question um yes certainly any brick style that you require is is able to be used here um the reason that we ended up uh choosing to submit this

type of brick um certainly the the easiest type of dumpster enclosure to build is a standard CMU and you paint the outside and it looks great on day one and the concern raised um from Alex and Jeremy as we kind of work through this process with them is well yeah sure but you know snow plows come through and you know kids are playing tennis in the parking lot or what have you and inevitably that paint will flick off even just over time would you you know consider a dyed brick which is what we have submitted and so that brick holds the color um consistently if it is chipped um the inside of the brick is you know essentially dyed the same color and so um yes if you were to get out of your car and inspect it you would see the chip uh if you were driving by happily enjoying your coffee um you wouldn't right so that's that's what we've submitted and if um so we feel that's a quality product and we feel that it would fit the context and kind of the intent of the ordinance um certainly if there's a need to uh meet the precise ordinance here that is something we are able to do so is it more of a brick or a block it's a block it's Block it's recular center block but but it's dyed all the way through it's dyed all the way through yep so it's a color consistent center block that's correct my desire is to have a a cut stone type center block the the face is a c like a cut block you know uh is my more decorative less indu right it doesn't have to be painted it doesn't have to be it's just its natural finish um and I believe we require that we don't allow that along any major thorough fares in town um and this being uh uh that side being North hle Road uh you're still going to be visual from that main Corridor and even though it's not in the front of the building it's still going to be visible it's in the front yard of every other business right there yep we did

our best yeah um and then in regards to um the comment made as far as in don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything like that but as far as the corporate's being designed and they put these all over all right corporate doesn't run our community we run our community I can totally agree you know so I don't care if there's a gazilion them around here you know we still have to follow our guidelines um but it's still up to the members of the commission while they want to make a motion and vote and that's why we have a body of nine members chair may I add this this is also special land because the nature of is a drive through so have to Pro the special land use uh as well as whatever U motions you want to make about the site um and the application as a whole so is that a separate motion yes absolutely you have a special L use and then you have the site plan so um where does it say special land use on our agenda this is a special AG because it's a drivethru and if it's special land use it would have to be a public hearing regarding that also they they withdrew last time

Alex said the the reason we have a special land use is it's a drive-thru drive people got to run out of here no they they they met those standards there's all that's not in the letter those the drive-through component is is has been checked off from our review there's no concern from the requirements for the stacking and things like that but for the special use so without special land use and public heing regarding special land use we can't even review the site plan for this for that use until that's been approved um well you know you you can so you can do a couple things here it's I know we can make contingencies and all that have contingencies no so it's two routes so typically most communities will first you know they'll have a public heing for a special land use and say yes that land use can go there and then have another meeting for the site plan sometimes those happen at the same meeting in this case you can um I would think it you know you could you can do a couple things as your consultant just so the staff please jump in and how you guys have done it here but you you can um you can approve the site plan or make a motion whatever it is but then require that it comes back before you to get special L use approval so a lot of communities like to do special land use and then say we're going to review the site we're going to review the site plan I to me it's the other way around like we approve the site plan because then you know what's going on there and then you can approve

the special l so it's either or there is no legal requirement of either one as long as you do both that is what's required with the special land use you would have to just do that notice 15 days for the public hearing which obviously would not be taking place today because there wasn't one so that would be um the next meeting whether it's a special meeting or the next meeting question Mr kman when this property came before us almost two years ago was that maybe the special land use I was trying to think here with Alex and Alex wasn't here with us at that point because we voted on something that was possibility stuffff have approved the special anuse at that time it's possible you can say yes to a special luse and then look at the plan because you could approve the special luse but then deny the plan it's very possible it's happened many times so iped the plans were postponed at one time they withdrew their they did yes but remember when we had two meetings and so I know that special land use was looked at right now I remember but I know that that was do you remember when um the Holly Foods people the owner of the entire complex came yes about two years ago and brought prototype something in that location I think you're right with that and um and the parking stuff and um we needed to do an approval at that point of and I think that was the special the

special land use permission they had a white box yes I think I think I think I I think that's all we did at that point right okay be a record of that correct there would be a record of that so that would the point is the applicant would have to then wait for administrative to say yay or nay whether it had taken place or not um before they could react to whatever the commission does regarding the site plans uh if it had not been done the site plan still can be voted on tonight and then they'd have to come back before us regarding special land use that seems most logical if we we have a excuse me a mechanism to inform them either yes there was a special meeting oh that administr so that seems the most logical way to keep the ball rolling we do our due diligence we let them go and if they're good we don't they don't need to up here again for the two and a half years or whatever it is and if not well you still have you know a little bit more to do come up here and we do a special meeting okay moving forward last time chair uh light plan can that be something that we just request that is submitted and accepted and by by staff the light plan I seems to me when I look through there was not submitted I know one light structure was removed uh for

where the building's going to be going um and I would highly suspect that back in the day there was probably no photometric view or site plan done for the original complex back then um I know they have upgraded to uh LED lights which are far brighter than what the originals were um so in that regard the commission could make that part of their motion um whether that's going to be a requirement and or a uh waving because of existing um facility my opinion the only thing to that is wouldn't now be the time to have that survey done if there are additions and subtractions be done oh I agree yeah should be done okay so um I I can make a motion but I want to be clarified of what I'm putting in it as we go here um we are um with a modification of the dumpster blocking um submission of a light plan to Administration and um special land use um acknowledgement or requirement is met yeah requirements

met for special use but we also believe have to de on the glass on the glass whether you want to recommend a variance or waiver or whether you want to recommend everything else is okay but for that portion to vote to variance that's all up to what everybody's vote is I'm willing to put it in as a as a waiver on the glass that's whatever motion you want to it feel like consens I'm torn on it um I see all sides but I think in this case not to get F down in minutia and stuff we know it's a small building everybody's acknowledged it's you know we didn't think about the 30% this Ty building I wholly acknowledge the shars um where that I agree does not dictate what goes on in in Holly but we also have kind we have to work with them can I add one note to that um the beauty of our small kiosk is that it can fit in these little pieces of land in which may be underutilized um the rough part is that every every tiny square inch um inside of these kiosks is utilized um maybe Jake will let you in and see the inside when it's built um I understand that time is money I mostly am to Jake just advisory having been through many planning Cycles in many cities if it were as easy as just meeting the 30% I'd tell them to meet it I'd say just get it meet the ordinance you're done no going back and forth it is unfortunately very difficult um we did

add the one um it's going to cause some difficulties with our Engineers to work everything around um and so really that third window to get us to that 30% wasn't added because it's that difficult um so that's really kind of the only thing I wanted to say I don't have any stock in party board um I really don't care um but it just does uh pose a lot of operational issues um to start getting rid of our very valuable wall space um and throwing things in so that was my only last comment okay ready then I'll make a motion to approve the site plan for the property located at 15191 North hway Road ID number i01 27151 016 with the following conditions um a waver of the glass requirement to 30% um a change in the dumpster block to meet our code submission of a lighting plan to Administration and um meeting the requirements of the special land use second something I missing that they don't meet our 30% yes um regarding the dumpster material to meet code is Brick uh or cut stone um what other materials can they use besides cut stone and brick um I believe that's

it January I just wanted to make it so they you know they do have some you a littleway there couple of options all right do I have a second a second all right so we had a motion we had a second roll call please CA no Lacy yes Wallace yes Everly yes Ken yes cross yes Christian yes oky no motion passed okay thank you sorry for all the Thank you regarding the site plan yes all right next item on new business is election of officers so we need to elect a chair a vice chair and a secretary Nom as as I say in many years I would love for someone else to take the opportunity and chair um so if anybody would like to throw their hat in a ring now would be the time I did

it all right I guess uh we're looking at chair first first um everybody that would like Gary okonsky to be the chair for the coming year uh please take roll call Richard did you second yes thank you Kenan yes Everly yes Christian yes cross yes kasca yes Lacy yes Wallace yes Oki sure all right moving on to I guess Vice chair CH currently Mr kinman is vice chair um if anybody again would like to throw their hat in the ring uh opportunities I think that's amazing choice so we have we well we haven't had a first [Music] yet and Angela second so roll call for Mr Richard kman to be Vice chair cross yes Christian yes Lacy yes C yes Wallace yes Everly yes kman yes Wy yes secretary currently I believe yes Lori is so I mean you're doing a great job I'll second that so we have a so we have a motion for Lori Lacy to be uh secretary roll call please Lacy yes Everly yes Christian yes Wallace yes cross yes kenman yes CA yes oky yes all right that was the least painless well not really

but okay moving on to new business item C uh Chief Watson's annual report report for 2024 thank you chair uh just as every year we prepare this document to the Planning Commission and to the council uh just kind of Recaps all the cases that this commission had seen in the year previous uh as you can see we listed each month we have only had cases in March September and October along with December the otheres we Capital Improvement discussion uh other months we were canel due to lack of business I would be happy to answer any questions on the report but I believe was pretty self-explanatory anybody have any questions for chief Watson thank you very much for your report you sir need to approve that or no and I believe it's already because uh I believe it was already sent to Council in January okay all right moving on to item number 10 training uh seeing nothing listed I don't think there was anything so I do want to follow up Mr you did send us an email I apologize I don't know if it was November or December uh asking about training funds for the Planning Commission uh obviously that question didn't get answered or reply to that email because we were in the transition of uh Administration previous administration was providing you guys with uh outside of outside trainings other than what Roo would do here inhouse or some virtual trainings that I would provide on occasion uh I am working with a new Administration for the 2025 budget to have training line items for all boards and commissions I

think the uh especially person of our newer members if you first time on a board commission and you don't really know Robert's Rules or to cond buiness uh I think that it's highly recommended so I am advocating for all Boards of commissions to get a certain amount on line item money uh for specifically training and being able to provide that to you either through row uh or you guys U stepping outside the box and going to uh trainings in other municipalities or or businesses like grow that offer them U but I don't have that answer for you today so I'm working diligently to get that approved I know new Administration uh has a lot on their plate but I think if we could just set aside a few hundred bucks uh be able to send commission more Commissioners to training I think it would benefit not only the applicants and community members but you as individuals uh as Commissioners so I just kind of wanted to follow up with your email because I felt guilty uh but I couldn't get an answer from the previous administration uh and the new Administration there's not anything in there for this year but we are entertaining the fact for uh here to somehow work some magic and find a little extra money for these boards commissions to have some training thank you Che if I may add there's a lot of great resources right now on the Michigan Association planning website uh a lot of it's virtual too so that uh definitely Cuts time cost um all that sort of stuff so there's a lot of training coming up uh that started off this month but mostly in March into April so um I probably about eight or nine TR various trainings right now online virtual that you can attend um and the fees aren't substantial so if you guys like they're they're available and some of them actually are local in Arbor Franken so they're on this side of

the state if you will not necessarily local but they're this part of Michigan so I believe even the virtual ones had a cost to they do right but they're much more uh they're obviously lower cost because you're not the fac were traveling so it's worthwhile to look into if you guys are interested but um there's a lot here this spring right I believe the list that was sent to us had virtual listings on it also so that was my reason for the question that I sent forth um just from the standpoint of all the Commissioners and everybody already volunteer their time and effort and and uh to spend 100 hours or more to go to a training to benefit the village and get a uh a paycheck for $65 it doesn't make a lot of sense other than other personal desire and I understand that I think I'm going to work a little bit with Alex and the administration get an average of what it would cost to attend a couple trainings uh times the nine members and propose that as a budget line item and it is in the works but unfortunately I can't confirm that until budget meetings which will be starting next month so I understand thank you also we're going to be it hasn't been sent out yet or announced but we will be doing our continuing education series at row up in Flint um in in May May 6th uh we're going to talk about robt Rules of Order we're going to talk about uh House Bill 5557 about housing requirements for the master plan and we're also having uh a guest speaker from uh Michigan Department of uh agricultural natural resources or uh talk about um WR the Farm Act um you know maybe not necessarily in the village but across Michigan there's a lot of discussion about right to farm at and how that works and U it's a application so it was a GU speaker coming in from from the state to speak

on that and when is that again uh believe as of my Monday staff meeting I think it was May 6 I had not sent out that out so you guys will get a flyer that so that that act is gonna allow us to turn the rest of our yards into Gardens uh no yes I hope you do Andes and everything else you want to do uh chickens with the prices now you probably want to um so yeah that's coming up too and that's a thing yeah free so thank you all right moving on to uh reports uh zba DDA what we got zba right d de January updates Depot then last or can you speak in your microphone a little more thank you they still have some different controversies the paring which had gone to the council and of course the council was having them at everything and keep checking on that and coming up with still updated plan um they did hire interim D director which wasina green and just wot

andil okay thank you can I add to the DDA sure um March 17th um um the 17th I'm thinking that it's that day there the DDA will be um interviewing um four candidates I think it's the 17th okay anything else also I forgot to say this they have battle SS ail and it's second Friday of the month from 7 9C and sounds or if you want to just go dance you said that was in b b fre to watch yes okay thank you anything else counil now yes sir I turn this way yes uh thank you Mr chairman so I guess the big one is we do have a new Village manager who's here with us today who's back here Mr Price is our new Village manager and I've worked with him a little bit he's a very knowledgeable person he listens well um and he he acts well he says he's going to do something get gets done and figures stuff out and

comes up with new Solutions so I think um Holly's very very lucky to have him um in the council here we're doing a water rate survey um we are also potentially going to have some new stuff coming to um Planning Commission with Airbnb type stuff I know we worked on it not long ago uh our president uh Brandon has proposed some changes and looking at how how that affects everything so um I think that that's good to stay proactive have a proactive manager proactive um president here so there may be other ordinances too that we'll be looking at and hopefully updating okay anything else no sir okay uh Park commission I believe weren't they uh I think they had their first meeting we have I don't think we do and who is in charge of that now do you know charge of well I mean from years ago used to be Tony that that's Town that's Township okay that's what I was thinking of okay all right commissioner and staff comments uh before we go to that I guess I would like um recommendations and or byy in to where we look at uh having Row give us a um submitt of size and use wise glass usage

variances where we could possibly come across and say okay when we're below this many square foot of a building um that we can then reduce the percentage of glass in that building because of it basically becoming unfeasible because of wall structure and things of that nature other that just always relying on uh the commission to be caught between well yeah we'll let them this one get by and that one not get by um because I do remember like everyone else did the fight we went through with uh the other site plan it was very uncomfortable at that time um BR I know it wasn't you Alex however that's what was presented to the public so vers is going I will take your request to Administration and ask for that however as you know this commission can I know that Al do work that would require payment so I will take that to Administration for that request but in my staff comments I will segue off that a little bit more okay thank you all right moving on to commissioner and staff comments let's start down here at Angela um we have these nice council chambers is there any way that we could get updated Maps um so we could have like a nice zoning map and maybe a map that showed the township and the village within the township so that this would all make sense to people just a simple request um and I want to thank you taking the capital Improvement plan

seriously um the way it was described to me is anything that we do that is a significant investment and it's going to change the complexion of the community should come before the Planning Commission so um I I appreciate that and also the having plans on the Shelf kenman you've heard me rail about this in Village Council meetings you know and it's part of that being ready um I know there was a h and cry on Faceook because oh the township you know is looking at plans to spend two to5 million dollar down the road for a community center that's not what they're doing they're planning they're putting the the money together the plans together and so when the opportunity arises we're ready and I don't need to tell you guys how badly that has been lacking in this community I watched after the first recession in 2008 and Obama was elected and that rained money and we didn't have anything ready and then when the harpa funds came through and we had another chance to make investments in h we had nothing ready so I'm saying as a planning commissioner as a citiz I appreciate a serious investment in planning because what we do today is going to pay off in the future and if we don't do anything the future is going to be the same as what it is today so thank you for that um and then again the moratorium on shortterm rentals um being at the um council meeting and the chief was talking about the lack of parking downtown one of the things that rang out to me was that there are 30 rentals long-term rentals just in the historic downtown area well now you're talking 30 cars 45 cars just for the rentals um multiply that by the post office where they have that next post parking lot but the postal people Park in our Municipal parking lot so they can maneuver their trucks so I

think it's a good thing to really seriously think about a moratorium not only about the neighborhoods but that our Downtown parking just really can't take it anymore without some serious changes um and other than that that's all I got okay thank you no comments Mr K nothing today L I have nothing to say thank you I personally would just like to thank Alex for being here and taking his time for this I your expertise I use it it's it's a nice Guiding Light for you know it's it's not to make any comparisons but there's a lot more substance to what seen in the past and I apologize for CH thank you sir um I think it was Miss everyone that brought up the the maps um so one thing that Mr Price has implemented is this TV behind us actually works come to find out and I think there's a hookup over by staff somewhere so if the capability exists we could put potentially stuff up there without inquiring costs to to that so I think that's that's a good idea also it did get a little heated today so I don't mean any disrespect to miss Wallace or Mr I'm not going to say your last name Mr Alex so um so um I think we're here to make highly great so I'm glad we can do that that's all I've got thank you um chair can I just want to comment just based on the comment about moratoriums the playing law thing you can't put a moratorium in place right now you have an existing zoning ordinance if you did not have a zoning ordinance on that subject area whatever it may be then you could put pause

moratorium hatch it out come up with an ordinance you have one in place so if you do put a moratorium there you could get challenged on that moratorium so just letting you guys know it's it's a challenge yeah you have a a Parking Challenge which is a good thing means it's popular um and then you know you have um short terms you know it's it's obviously a hot thing and um you have Administration now that has experience and I know that's something that everyone across the state looking you're not the only ones um so these are just the things that like I said we never thought Sil would be coming around in Michigan right we have issues I do in other communities with this or you know small kiosk uses like we saw today so you know the word I was looking for earlier is you're stewards of the community right you have to make the best judgment what they decided upon 30 years ago doesn't mean it set stone that you have to continue that in perpetuity forever that whatever they decide it's your decision decisions you've been put in this position to make those decisions so as stewards you just have to manage the community um it's in the best interest and make those decisions because um you know uh things change they will continue to change and so that's part of the responsibility not just for yourselves or and those predecessors going forward you know how they're going to handle it Chief uh I do have a couple comments uh thank you for that ch I would like to address Mr cross's uh question on ordinances our ordinances as we know are very and part of this Capital Improvement plan is why I've been pushing so hard for the last year is to get us compliant with the rrc which is opening up as I pre the chairy and and work together for many

years with this tool in our tool box to have be our RC compant it opens us for amount of grant funding particularly for master plan updates cify clarification of our ordinances rewriting some of our ordinances paying Alex uh because I work in the ordinances almost daily and it's extremely frustrating uh when we come across these types of of situations so um with the implementation of this Capal Improvement plan we're hoping that it'll help us to be one step closer to be our RC compant and I know I feel like a broken record because I feel like I've been saying that for at least six years well before Co and it is Extreme goal of mine to be our RC before either I die or I leave here I think this community deserves that I know uh Mr Council U Costa did introduce uh but I would like to formally introduce Mr Tim price for those of you who haven't met him um it's been a blessing for me Administration to have fresh air in the office with ideas and uh motivation so um I thank him personally and I think uh if you all take the time to get to know him you will also have that same impression so uh thank you Mr Price for coming to our community and uh taking the time to step in tonight uh with that uh a little segue with that our RC will also help us with the price of so as I've been talking to Administration we're right there in the next year we're going to have to start looking at that Master Plan talking with Alex today we do need to update our Master Plan before we cify our ordinances because that's just the way that uh things are usually done in the

plan world so with that um you know this this master this uh Capital Improvement plan is is extremely I do have one last final comment the last couple weeks there's been some Scuttle butt about the marijuana facility in town uh I do want to give some clarity staff has been meeting with the client uh for the last 10 days um either verbally or on Zoom meetings and the big complaint was that the water table is so high on that site that they were unable to get a underground storage system and have that drain uh finally the owners that to facilitate an agreement with Dollar General um and they are now working on tying into the county drain there which will alleviate all the water retention issues that were with that site so um you know they've already got a lot of money invest in that site they have fo in the ground last email that we had yesterday they had full int of moving forward right now they're submitting plans to the county to tie into that County drain uh that perm was already ped so it's really the plans haven't changed are just renewing uh that that permit so we're hoping you know the next plan commission meeting we have I have a better update or we're seeing materials drop but the last email I got from them is they are patiently waiting to have materials delivered to that site with just Administration giv them the so and who is them these days there's been so many different owners who is it them again stash stash S I believe it is yes and yeah so I just want to make sure this board uh this commission does deal with a lot of that new development so I wanted to make sure that Administration

was being transparent on the communications that we've been having with these developers um you know I know there's some Mi emotions too on marijuana and kids and I I have teenagers and I agree with all that is also tax dollars on a make parcel so I I don't know it's double sort but um how is everything gas station yep so great question I can also update you on that uh with the bitter cold January they were ped uh they did bring in furnaces to fall off the ground because they didn't have a SM floor in there uh it took them six days to get the temperature just right in the sand to be a uh the floor is in as you can see they're glazing the windows now um I would assume that as soon as the frost falls off they going to start coring concrete and Ash getting the pumps in um I know the owner is patiently waiting he's losing business too that's a corner um but last winter we were able to build this winter the building industry been really slow I have fielded a few phone calls but I have not had any plans subm regarding stash and their um agreement with Dollar General to I'm assuming trench through the property as an easement as an easement okay um and then the documentation would be then submitted to the Village of the agreement yes and and some of those negotiations already Tak place okay okay I just want to make sure we have things documented so that you know

everything knows which direction it went um go ahead are any so that will take place when they start to do the concrete at the gas station so um right now they canay as plants aren open and the cost of concrete my understanding is for themain all right another question completely out of Realm as far as my understanding but who does the village contact regarding uh railroad crossings with the roads and pavement being very you know uneven to cross the railroad tracks I don't know if I have the answer for that I will research it I'll try to get you that answer back either at the next commission or privately because I know they have been going downhill for the last few years along with a lot of our payment anyhow but you if well I know on Rosetta it's extremely bad you I watch pickup trucks with things in the back of their pickup truck go across there at a very slow rate and the whole truck just jostles and I've seen things fall out of the trucks because of it so asse if it's within the track right away it would be the railroad but that's just my that would be my guess also but I guess the real question is how do we notify them that there's a need sure I can look

into resp okay thank you I don't have anything else uh have you been really quiet do you want to say anything thank you Mr Price I look forward to working with everyone thank you um just as a little followup um kind of reading through as well as we've been talking and I know that we have more conversations about this but I would concur with Alex as far as reading it says in thees allity ad standards and then later that ASCS in reference to design standards so I think there is flexibility okay thank you all right um no one here in the public so I can't ask public comments at the end so with all that said we are adjourn kill me you killed me you didn't say anything I gave you allity to speak up show I want you to throw your head in ring when I want

[Applause] how are you you sweetheart sorry it was always come back come back another meeting and say you know what maybe it's time for a change that's fine in some respects I'm I'm kind ofad

ex is an Emil so we're kind ofing takes the chair for that the way they cond our yeah there's there's tra but I think well she's been manager she's been the deputy manager in for years no I mean she has she has 4 years of

resice yeah at least you don't have to keep the notes so you're still Tim says it's [Music]