Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

First of all, welcome everyone.

And we are prepared today to resume one hearing that was continued and to conduct another hearing as well. Just a brief summary on our procedures, very simple. Town staff usually makes a presentation. Board members can ask questions. Then the applicant makes a presentation. Board members can ask questions. After that, there may be board discussion and motions and discussion about that in a vote. We also take public comment before the board starts its discussion, if there are any people here to comment with regard to the specific hearing. We'll have a public comment period later on in the meeting, which... Any of those comments will not apply to any hearings. So those are unrelated comments in that sense. With that said, the board members have been provided with an agenda and of course that's publicly available as well. Town staff have anything to add to the agenda? No. All right. The minutes for the last meeting have also been circulated. Any corrections to those minutes? I'll take a motion.

Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

Okay, moving on to the hearing that was continued from the last meeting that we had. That hearing deals with variance 000251-2026. And what I propose at this time is that we simply pick up where we left off. All members of the board were present for the last hearing. And of course, we've all had a chance to watch the video from that meeting if anybody needed to refresh their recollections. So unless there's an objection, that's the way we'll proceed. Any objection? Okay. On behalf of town, Brian, you want to proceed?

Thank you, Madam Chair. This is Brian Eber for the record principal planner with the town of Hilton Head Island. We did receive from the applicant, Dan, a arborist report as requested. And I would like to let you know I'm here if you have any questions about the arborist report or any questions about this variance request.

This report, Brian, was from a certified arborist, correct?

Correct. This is a certified arborist.

And the phone call that you had had a couple of months ago from another different arborist that said the tree was healthy was not from a certified arborist, correct?

but he did not provide an arborist report.

Did either one of them give you any indication that this tree, this 36 inch live oak tree that's the subject of this request, that the tree was showing any signs of being dead or decaying or was diseased?

No, neither one did that.

Okay, any other questions?

Is the representative from the firm that made the evaluation here?

No, sir.

No.

Any other questions? Thank you, Brian.

Thank you.

Mr. Kirchberg?

Yes, ma'am.

Do you have anything to add?

You want to step up to the microphone?

This is being recorded, so it's easier. I gotcha.

So no, ma'am, I don't have anything. I know you came by and Mr. Green seen the property and I know Ms. Fee lives in the neighborhood. And the information presented, the arborist that did it was Arbor Nature's guy, one of the Arbor Nature individuals.

Yeah, you were very hard at work mowing your grass the day I came by.

Yes, ma'am. Any questions?

All right, there being no questions, any member of the public have any comment? Okay, with that said, is there a motion?

I would make the motion that we would grant the request from the homeowner for the removal of the specimen tree. All right, is there a second?

There being no second, a motion dies for lack of a second. Is there another motion?

Madam Chair, I would like to make a motion. It's rather lengthy, so please bear with me as I read this. This is subject to the variance request to remove the tree. The subject property contains a specimen tree, which the applicant states is approximately 36 inches in diameter. The subject property is approximately .27 acres in size. It contains four specimen live oak trees and one significant 28-inch live oak tree. The subject property is a single-family residential lot located at 14 Pelican Street. Within the RSF district and subject to the far speech character overlaid FB-NCO. The subject parcel borders a single family residential uses to the north and south while fronting Pelican Street. The property owner requests the variance to allow the removal of the 36 inch live oak tree located immediately adjacent to the rear of the house or in the swimming pool and pool deck can be constructed. Forest Beach Owners Association Inc. has approved the construction plans, but has neither approved or disapproved the removal of the 36-inch live oak tree. Instead, the association relies solely upon the provisions of the town of Hilton Head's land management ordinance for the determination of removal of significant trees. The risk associated with a 36-inch live oak has been professionally evaluated. On March 19th, 2026, Arborist Clay Jones, with Jones Brothers Tree Service, called the town staff, Brian Eber. The property owner had requested that Mr. Jones give his opinion of the tree, and Mr. Jones stated that the tree was healthy. A second opinion was obtained by the owner from Arbor Nature by letter May 1st, 2026. Mr. Richard V. McDivitt, certified arborist, opined that the tree presented a moderate risk with a possible likelihood of failure. A moderate of failure means that the tree may be mitigated and or retained and monitored. A possible unlikelihood of failure means that failure could occur but is unlikely during normal weather conditions. The proposed success for use of the $350,000 350 square foot swimming pool with 417 square foot permeable paper deck is the sole reason for the proposed removal of the 36 inch live oak tree. Both the property owner and the contractor for the owner have acknowledged that the smaller pool can be built upon the property at a different location. The purpose of the residential single family RS-5 district is to primarily accommodate neighborhoods of single family dwellings and densities ranging up to five units per acre. It is intended to discourage any use that would substantially interfere with the development of single family dwellings or would be detrimental to the quiet residential nature of a single family neighborhood. The district also accommodates agriculture uses and parks as permitted uses. Section 16-6-104F.2A of the Town Land Management Ordinance LMO reads, no specimen tree may be removed except in accordance with the paragraph below. In addition, all specimen trees shall have the following protections, whether located on public or private land. A variance from this section of the LMO may be allowed in an individual case of unnecessary hardship if the Board of Zoning Appeals feels, if the Board of Zoning Appeals determines that all of the following four criteria are met. Those criteria are, there are no extraordinary and exceptional conditions pertaining to the particular piece of property. These conditions do not generally apply to other properties in the vicinity. Because of these conditions, the application of the ordinance to the particular piece of property would effectively prohibit or unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property and the authorization of the variance will not be a substantial detriment to the adhesion property or the public good and the character of the zoning district where the property is located will not be harmed by granting of the variance. Based upon the report of a certified arborist, the PCA concludes that the 36-inch live oak tree on this particular piece of property does not present an imminent danger requiring removal at this time. Furthermore, the tree does not effectively prohibit or unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property. Both the owner and the contractor have acknowledged that there is an alternate location on the property on which the pool and deck can be constructed. Therefore, the request for the variance is hereby denied. That is my motion.

Is there a second? Seconded. Motion's been seconded. So we will now vote. Karen, you want to call the roll?

I approve the motion.

Mr. Sackheim?

I approve. Support the motion.

Mr. Green.

Against the motion.

And Ms. Bayless.

Support the motion.

Thank you.

Motion passes by a vote of 4-1. And with that, we will move on to our second hearing today. deals with a variance request, variance 000528-2026. It is a request from Judd Carstens on behalf of Mach 17. owners of 1010 William Hilton Parkway, also identified on Beaufort County tax map as parcel number R552015000289A0000, for a variance from LMO section 16-4-102B, to allow an outdoor commercial recreation use other than a water park to not have the required direct vehicular access to a minor arterial street. Mr. Carstens, sorry, Brian, Mr. Ebert, will you present your staff report, please?

Good afternoon. For the record, Brian Ebert, principal planner for the town of Hilton Head Island. Good afternoon and welcome. The applicant's requesting a variance from 16-4-102-B-5, subset B, for use specific conditions to allow an outdoor commercial recreational use. That's the important part of it. The use is allowed.

Could you just speak up a bit?

The use is allowed. but the use is allowed with conditions. So the question today centers around the condition that an outdoor recreation, other than water parks, has to have direct connection to a minor arterial. And this project doesn't. And we'll kind of go through the project as we go forward. So just for record, this is an official town of Felton Head Island zoning map. And in here, the red little square designates where on that zoning map that this parcel we'll be discussing resides. And it's in the light commercial zoning district. Here's the view of the existing conditions and aerial. So this outdoor commercial recreational use have direct vehicular access in that section that we just spoke about. In section 16-5-105-B, street hierarchy, the applicant may apply for variance from the subsection. And here's the verbiage from the street hierarchy. And it has to do with average daily traffic counts, it has to do with the size of the street, the shape of the street, and function of the street. And so what's listed in the town's LMO is a currently list of what roads would qualify as minor arterials is provided for you here. And there's two key roads that we'll talk about a little bit further that are minor arterials. One's called Arrow Road, and the other's called New Orleans Road. Here's a very bad scan of what was a really nice project, so apologies to the applicant up front. Essentially, this is the layout of the proposed site plan. If you all are familiar with Panera Bread, where that was in the shopping center there, they're looking to do some upfitting to the existing, but also some expansion to the back of the Panera Bread site, where they'll have indoor entertainment. The middle ground, it's very light green. There's some trees and next to the light green trees is a little area where the putt-putt mini golf will take place. So that's what this plan is trying to depict for you. According to section 16.2.103 S, the applicant may seek a fourth of variance from this section, as long as it conforms with our standards and set forth in the LMO. And due to the strict application of the LMO, that this variance is being sought. variance criteria number one, there are extraordinary and exceptional conditions pertaining to this particular piece of property. Findings of facts. The applicant seeks request relief from LMO 16-4-105-102, sorry, B-5, subset B, the site of an outdoor commercial recreational use shall have direct vehicular access to a minor material. Their findings are the subject property possesses a unique access configuration not generally found throughout the light commercial district here on the island. While the property does not have direct frontage on a roadway classified as a minor, it benefits from a shared access system connecting both William Hilton Parkway and Dunnigan's Alley. Dunnigan Alley functions as a collector type road, serving multiple commercial properties, connecting directions, both the Arrow Road and Wexford Drive, and ultimately connections out to William Hilton. The conclusions of all this application does not meet the criteria set forth because there are no extraordinary and exceptional conditions that pertain to this particular property. It does meet the criteria. I had to repeat that because I think I said did not. It does meet the criteria. Variance criteria number two, these conditions do not generally apply to other properties in the vicinity. The subject property is uniquely situated within William Hilton Parkway Corridor. Properties located immediately east and west of the site generally possess direct frontage on New Orleans Road or Arrow Road. And those roads are considered minor arterials. There are relatively few light commercial zoning properties within this corridor of William Hilton Parkway that are positions between two major intersections while simultaneously being served by an access network functionally connected to multiple signalized intersections. According to the access circumstances affecting this property does not generally apply to surrounding properties and is unique due to this segment of the corridor. Conclusions of law, staff concludes that this application does meet the criteria set forth because of the extraordinary and exceptional conditions that apply to this subject property do not also generally apply to other properties in the vicinity, such as those properties directly across from William Hilton Parkway with direct access to New Orleans Road. Reference criteria three. Findings of facts, the applicant is proposing to develop the site with a mini golf course, which is classified as an outdoor commercial recreation other than a water park use and is permitted with conditions in light commercial zoning district. Use specific conditions for principal uses. The site of an outdoor commercial recreation other than a water park shall have direct vehicular access to a minor arterial street in accordance with that street hierarchy form that I showed you earlier. The light commercial zoning districts permit outdoor commercial recreation other than a water park use. However, application of the direct minor arterial access requirement effectively precludes the establishment of that use on this property despite The property's location within a commercial corridor characterized by entertainment, dining, tourism, and recreational activities. A little bit of background here. The variance in 2021, also applied for variance from the specific use condition to allow outdoor commercial recreation use other than a water park to proceed without the required vehicular access to a minor arterial street for mini golf. And that was at 40 Waterside Drive. And that was granted by the BCA at the time. As referenced in staff's report from that variance, this requirement was put in the LMO to provide access and provide traffic and access management to restrict development or limit traffic problems. high traffic generation use might not be appropriate on other streets, what's considered another street. And therefore this requirement was put in for certain uses to have direct access to a minor arterial street, which is parcel has direct access to both major arterials and other streets. The property has access characteristics substantially like other existing mini golf facilities operating within William Parkway corridor. Staff looked at other mini golf courses on the island and found three facilities that do not have direct access to a minor arterial street. The access is provided either through a drive aisle of an adjacent property or along a non-arterial other street. Staff is unaware of any traffic problems concerning these sites. the requested variance would not authorize the use otherwise prohibited within the zoning district, but would allow a prohibited use to be located on a property that is otherwise appropriately situated, adequately served by transportation or infrastructure and compatible with surrounding developments. Essentially the strict application of this ordinance would therefore unreasonably restrict the property's ability to utilize a specific use contemplated within the light commercial zoning district. Inclusions of the law, this application does meet the criteria as set forth in LMO 16-103S4, subset AI.103, because there are extraordinary, exceptional conditions that apply to the subject property that would prohibit or unreasonably restrict the utilization of the property. Criteria number four. Findings of facts are the proposed mini golf facilities compatible with the surrounding commercial development patterns and consistent with the entertainment, dining, retail and tourism orientated character of the William Hilton Parkway corridor. Site plan demonstrates utilization of existing shared parking access infrastructure rather than creation of additional direct curb cuts onto William Hilton Parkway. The property is accessible by vehicle, bicycle, and pedestrian facilities as located within and specifically intended to accommodate commercial activity. Granting the variance would not alter the character of this light commercial zoning district. It creates or create adverse impacts on adjacent properties or negatively affect the public good. Conclusions of all, this application does meet the criteria set forth in section 16-2-103-S-4-A, subset A-I-04, because the variance would not be a substantial detriment to the adjacent properties or the public good. There is concern the outdoor nature of this use could potentially impact nearby non-adjacent residential uses. Those impacts can be mitigated through recommended conditions, limiting hours of operation and provisions of sound and lighting controls. Based on the findings of facts and conclusions of law, the LMO official determined that the request to be consistent with the town's long range art plan and serves to carry out the purposes of the LMO and recommends that the request for a variance should be approved to the applicant with the following conditions. To mitigate the potential impacts on nearby residential uses. The outdoor use shall not be permitted between the hours of 10.01 p.m. and 6.59 a.m. There should not be any speakers or amplified music or sounds outside of any enclosed buildings or directed from inside any enclosed buildings to the outside. A landscaping plan must be approved by the design review board and must include additional landscaping and sound dampening fence or wall generally along Dunnigan's Alley property line. and or the existing Santee Cooper power line easement running parallel to Dunnigan's Alley at a minimum. I'm gonna say it's the latter rather than the first one. Number four, an exterior lighting plan showing all exterior buildings and site lighting also must be approved by the DRP. That concludes my presentation.

Any questions from board members Michael.

So it's bounded by dunnigan's alley and 278 yes so throughout the day there'll be comings and goings of people playing mini golf well this cause more traffic on dunnigan's alley and 278 eastbound.

We met and discussed this as a team. We do not believe it's gonna impact Dunnigan's Alley in a negative way for traffic.

I'm having a hard time.

No, no.

It won't cause any more traffic.

The road is sufficiently designed that it's able to handle that additional traffic.

And going eastbound both on Dunnigan's Alley and 278, you hit the roundabouts.

Mm-hmm.

This will not cause more traffic at the roundabouts?

At this point, we've not made that determination if it will or won't. They will have to go through what's known as a traffic impact analysis. So as it gets submitted for their development plan review, our traffic staff member will evaluate that and ask them to provide this or she'll be able to calculate that on her own. So that question is unresolved today, but there will be impact because obviously there's more cars.

And when you exit on 278 eastbound, the first minor arterial road you reach is New Orleans?

New Orleans, correct.

Will this create more U-turns on New Orleans, people going eastbound and then turning around going westbound?

I do not believe so, no.

My last question is, is it in the interest of Hilton Head as a people living here residentially and also people who visit the island because it's such a charming place? Is it in the interest of Hilton Head to have an additional mini golf course in the middle of the road?

Right. It's a fair question, I think actually the applicant was gonna do his best to speak to that, but it is, I would say it's not what we have currently, it's something different, so it may, but I've definitely asked the question of the applicant that one. Okay, thank you.

Any questions? Yeah, I have some. So looking at the diagram here, if you want to go back to that, first of all, this area here that we're talking about in question is a very congested corridor that William Hilton Parkway backs up from the Sea Pine Circle all the way to there. And if I'm reading this map correctly of what the site plan looks like, their entrance is going to be the easement to pass the bank and Zips Car Wash. Is that Is that right? Is that the roadway that they're using?

Yeah, so there is an access easement here. It's shown on there.

So I don't know if you go to Zips Car Wash, but when I go to Zips Car Wash, there are times when that easement is backed up and cars are backed up on that roadway. So I would think then the potential for cars who want to turn into this area to go play mini golf would maybe back up on the William Hilton Parkway. So that's That's an issue that I kind of see here. And that sea pine circle does back up all the way over there. Looking at the two diagrams as well, it looks like there's gonna be some tree removal as well. And I think probably mitigation, but in the different areas and circle. And when you increase the size of the Panera place, Right, there's trees that are gonna come down. Are there any specimen trees in that area that we need to be concerned with?

No, ma'am.

Okay. And then is there gonna be any access to this property from the Panera side or is that off limits? Do we know?

We haven't seen it yet, but they will actually create pathways. The pathway connection is really important to them. And this, I'm sorry, this site plan doesn't show that, but it's really key to moving people back and forth. So there will be interconnections in between the sites where the Panera Bread was and then where the mini golf is.

So there'll be, people will be able to park in front of the Panera Bread, the old Panera Bread place and the other building. Sure, sure. Thank you.

Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Eber.

Thank you.

We'll now hear from Mach 17 and I think Mr. Carstens, are you here?

Speaking to this clearly. Good afternoon. Thank you all very much for hearing our application. My name is Judd Carstens. I'm a landscape architect with Whitmer Jones Kiefer, and I'm representing the property owners as well as the future users, which is the search group. Brian did a great job of kind of giving the overview on the project itself. The interesting thing is within light commercial, you're allowed a lot of uses. Outdoor recreation just ends up having that extra level of scrutiny. In fact, I think even to the point of, if this was on a property that already had the designation of a minor arterial, you all would still be hearing the application. So I will say is that, This doesn't preclude indoor recreation. So to the point of a traffic study being a critical component, it certainly is, this same use could be allowed indoors. So what we're trying to do with our development here utilize the existing open lot that was the old car wash years and years ago, while trying to lightly impact the stand of trees on the backside without the removal of any significant trees. And then of course, providing the sufficient parking per the LMO. Again, the variance just sought in relief In to the point of what Brian said regarding the minor arterial, the access to a like situation of roadways. It's the south end of 278 is a very active area. It is surrounded by light commercial properties, including the RV resort, which is designated light commercial. And it does have, thanks to the power line easement and Donegans, it does have a significant distance from that adjacent resort. But I appreciate the conditions that staff has laid out. But again, it is in, From a use standpoint, we find it appropriate being within this district, surrounded by restaurants, accessible to both our residents and our guests, especially compared to some of the other properties that currently have a mini golf unit use. We certainly feel like we meet the criteria beyond the designation of the roadways. I do have Alan Wolf with Surge Restaurant Group here, as well as Tim Probst with Architecture Group, if you have any questions regarding that. But in regards to the use, we're just seeking obviously the relief for the outdoor commercial recreation. So I welcome any questions that you all have for me or for anyone else here.

Questions?

Judd. Yes, sir. If you were gonna give directions to the public on how to get to your proposed venue, what would those directions be?

First, I would ask where you're coming from. Obviously, Google's gonna give you 110. I think if you're coming from the north end, you're obviously coming down 278, and you're gonna make a right-hand turn into this area. It will have the appropriate signage. If you were coming from say Sea Pines or even the south end, I'd recommend that you either turn at Arrow and come up Dunnigan's versus going up to the New Orleans road. But actually to the point of, if you're coming from Caligula, you'd probably make the turn at New Orleans, go through New Orleans and then make the right there out in front of Wexford to come in through the axis in the front.

The your adjacent neighbors. I don't believe any of them are here. I have to take it that they're not jumping up and down in opposition to this.

I have not heard any opposition from either the bank or the car wash or the Village of Wexford. And obviously the Panera Center is in need of some help in regards to tenants. And the fact that the Panera hasn't been operating for a while, that is what Allen's group was gonna try to utilize was that building itself, an empty building. And then obviously the uses further down the line, which is local legend and so forth.

Yeah. And I know that one of the stipulations is, you know, no outdoor amplified speakers and music. And isn't that part of that miniature golf experience to have some type of a. background music or features that we'll talk back at you or something of that nature? I mean, your clients are okay with those stipulations?

Yes, because I have the good fortune of being on the DRB, the chairman, and I know that this is gonna come under scrutiny through that board as well. But yeah, from a standpoint of, Amplified music, yes, I think there will be an ambience, but I think to the point of meeting the requirements, if there even has to be an amplitude associated with it, I don't believe that Alan and his group have any problems being able to meet those criteria.

And I'm assuming that your clients are good business people and have done some type of market research that this would be a going concern, it is a needed amenity in that particular location.

It's certainly different, you know, with the Beaufort Memorial site, a couple doors down, this has become a very interesting district when it comes to the turnover and uses, but considering we have an island of 40,000 residents and we see a tremendous, millions of visitors and we are targeting families to come visit us, this is very much a use that supports those visitors and our families that we have. And I think that the track record that Surge has in regards to their venues and how they care for the community, I think they'll certainly be a good tenant for this space.

So one of the criteria is that this is not adverse to the public good. Hilton Head has a certain ambiance. Do you think adding an additional miniature golf course in that location with a restaurant, I assume it's going to be for kids, fast food and something like that? Does that add to the attractiveness of Hilton Head or does it make Hilton Head more like Myrtle Beach?

You know, Myrtle Beach definitely is a unique animal and the town's been working against that model certainly since its inception. I would say that if you drive down 278, you kind of have to, until you're upon it, you really don't know you're at Pirates Island, even to the point where now where, Adventure Cove, the other miniature golf up at Folly Field is pretty well receded in the background. This complex being on the backside of the property for 278, within that existing canopy, the intent is very much to keep that canopy and work within it. I think Hilton Head has done a tremendous job and the folks who are doing miniature golf courses on Hilton Head have done a tremendous job in their theming and just their approach that we want to utilize the natural features that we have. From a standpoint of, is this going to open the floodgates for hundreds of mini golf courses or even another five? I don't believe so. It's very interesting that we haven't had more, but I think that it is just the fact that I don't think there's been a good opportunity for them to be honest.

And if I read the material correctly, it'll be closed at 10 o'clock in the evening?

I believe so. If that's a criteria, I mean, it's meant for families. It's not meant for our late night crowds. There's other venues for them for that.

Does that mean at 10 o'clock in the evening, there'll be quite a bit of traffic exiting the premises.

I'll let if you don't mind having Alan since he's going to be addressing operations.

Sure. Thank you. Alan Wolf. The outdoor use would absolutely be closed at 10 o'clock. The indoor use would be compliant with any other restrictions, but we're not predicting anything after midnight, but only in compliance with the code, that outdoor 10 o'clock hard stop. So I don't think it would cause an outflux of everybody leaving the property. There'd be a wind down for the outdoor golf starting probably around 8.30, 9 o'clock to start alerting people. And then I did want to speak to the aesthetic, because this has no desire to be windmills and waterfalls. There's a new push in miniature golf to have a more realistic golf experience, which is soil instead of a concrete pad with carpet. It's utilizing the newest technology around high-end turf on soil base, so you've got a more natural putting experience. So it will be landscaped particularly, but it will have no additional tchotchkes built into it. It is meant to be a putting experience in line with the Hilton Head golf experience, which we think will be a unique new addition to that recreation here on Hilton Head should it be allowed. And it certainly would be indoor regardless. That's the intent indoor as well, is not to make it overly frilly, but more focused on the actual golf experience and a high end, more realistic feel.

Alan, are you alluding to that you're going to use real turf grass on it?

We're going to use synthetic, but it is, you know, like you see people building putting greens in their backyards these days, because you can make that very realistic putting experience. That's exactly what it is. So it uses a crushed rock base, it uses soil on top to make the undulations. So it's got a very realistic, not a hard concrete pad feel to it. It's much more realistic.

Mr. Carstens, I think you mentioned that, or Brian may have mentioned that there are no specimen trees on this property, but I think you mentioned that there would be no removal of significant trees. Did I hear that correctly?

Yes, yes. So if you're looking at this specific site plan, in fact, that large tree in the middle is actually the tree that's on a property line between the existing Panera building and the Casablanca restaurant. It's a large Oak along with the frontline, you could say of the trees on the backside of the property are a few Oaks. And we're looking to highlight those, but in regards to them being specimens, no, they're significant trees.

Do you have an estimate of how close, the closest residential area is to this location?

I can only base it off of the map. And obviously, The Hilton Head Resort is on the other side of Donegan's. It has a berm and vegetative screen associated with it. And then we are quite a distance from the first residence in Wexford, which is on the backside of the PSD property there off of Donegan's. I couldn't give you an exact linear foot, but we are certainly well within the light commercial, so.

What sound features will be part of the new layout, the new golf course?

I think that's, you know, if staff's putting in a condition for a fence or a wall feature, that is to be determined. We can certainly, per the LMO, do a particular size height within the buffer. But in regards to the exact design of it, I couldn't say at this moment. I mean, it could certainly be a solid wall. We were going to, you know, still plant per the buffers that are required, which is in this area, I think is a buffer A, which has evergreen material, has overstory material. But in regards to a specific design for the fence, I couldn't say yet.

Brian, this may be a question for you, but are there decimal limitations on the sound that the town would permit in this location?

Yeah. Thank you, Brian Eber again. We do have a decimal level up to a certain timeframe, the 10 o'clock, and that's when the decimals are cut down to 85, but 90 is the decimal measured at the property line is where they measure that. So we feel that they're going to have to achieve that. And if they can't achieve that by, closing down at 10 o'clock, which would be, I think, a way to make that noise limitation achievable. Or they're gonna have to install some sort of barrier in case, but there'll be an analysis done when they actually do submit for the sound. that's coming and what the full plans are. We have a rough idea and a concept. And obviously this site plan is a concept plan, but we don't have some of those particulars, but the 90 decimal level is requirement up to 10 and then it drops to 85.

Thank you.

Any questions? I just have a couple. So if you're shut down done by 1001, right? Is there a last time that a party could go out? Right. Is it 930? How long does it take for 18 holes of mini golf? Right. OK. And then somebody I wasn't sure if you said there would be no indoor recreation or there would be indoor recreation. There would be indoor recreation in the Panera building. OK. OK. Like foosball and other kind of.

table games or yes and then and actually uh the indoor simulators similar to chronic golf uh we're going to be a component of this of this new building so uh it was kind of kind of be our all weather you know catch obviously with this with our area and that's a 10 o'clock shutdown too is that right no it wouldn't be less restricted Sorry. Can you come to the mic?

Thanks.

The idea is to have 18 holes indoor of mini golf. So that is an all weather. And when it's 100 degrees and hot outside, people have an option to not roast outside. And that would plan to not have a hard stop at 10 o'clock inside. And I'm unaware of any restriction that would require that.

So we're looking at two mini-golfs, one indoor, one outdoor.

Yes, yeah, that's right.

All right, thanks.

And we considered all 36 holes being indoor, but honestly, the tree canopy on the backside of that property is beautiful. So you have a lot of natural shading. And if you go to Myrtle Beach, I've played at the similar golf there. It's wide open, no trees, and it's not a good experience. So this would be a much better outdoor experience.

Did you just say that the indoor mini golf would not have a 10 o'clock cutoff?

That's right, unless there was a restriction that I'm unaware of. The condition that was recommended by the staff from my reading today was for the outdoor recreation use. It was my understanding, but I could be corrected, certainly.

And the restaurant that you're going to have, is that going to be... marketed as sort of a freestanding restaurant that people could come to regardless of whether they pay?

Absolutely, yes.

What's the cutoff?

When does the restaurant close? Our kitchens close typically at 10 o'clock across our company. So, and nine o'clock in the off season, I'm sure it would be in line with that. There doesn't seem to be a lot of demand after that here.

Any other questions? When would the indoor close, Alan?

We don't have any interest in having any of our restaurants open after midnight. So I know in my mind, it's a hard stop by midnight, 1159. It could be earlier, for sure.

You're not dealing with an all-night situation?

No, absolutely not. We don't desire that in our business model.

Do you anticipate serving alcoholic beverages in the indoor space?

Yes, I do. Yeah, it'll be a full-on restaurant experience. That's right.

Thank you, gentlemen. Brian, do you have anything to add?

Thank you.

No, I do not.

I have nothing else to add.

Thank you. Any members of the public have any comment? I'll take a motion then.

Well, I would move that based on the staff report, the findings, the facts and conclusions of law that the BZA find this consistent with the TownsR plan and serves to carry out the purpose of the LMO and recommends that the request for the variance should be approved to the applicant with the following conditions to mitigate potential impacts on nearby residential uses, the outdoor, Use shall not be permitted between the hours of 10.01 PM and 6.59 AM. There should not be any speakers or amplified music or sound outside of any enclosed building or directed from inside any enclosed building to the outside. A landscape plan must be approved by the Design Review Board, DRB, and must include additional landscaping and a sound dampening fence or wall generally along Dunnigan's Alley property line and or exiting Santee Cooper power line easement running parallel to Dunnigan's Alley at a minimum. An exterior lighting plan showing all exterior building and site lighting must be approved by the DRB.

Is there a second? Second. Karen, will you call the roll for a vote?

Who made the second? I'm sorry, I couldn't see.

Jeff Green.

Thank you. Ms. Fee?

Approve the motion.

Mr. Sackheim? Aye.

Approve.

Mr. Christian.

Approve.

Mr. Green. Approve. And Ms. Bayless.

Approve.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your presentation. We appreciate it. We appreciate all of you being here and being available.

Good luck with it.

The next item on our agenda is public comment unrelated to the hearings that have been conducted. Is there any member of the public that wishes to address the board? Yes, Mr. Williams.

I'm Chester Williams, a local attorney here. I know some of y'all know her, but I wanted to introduce Lola Campbell to y'all. a native Island Gullah who went to the University of Georgia, went to Howard University Law School, worked for Wells Fargo, Lehman Brothers, others as a Wells Fargo most recently as, and I have no idea what this means, as a Senior Derivatives Council But she has moved back home and she is learning about zoning and land use laws. She's a member of the town's LMO task force and she's been very active in it. So I just want to make sure that y'all who don't know her are familiar with her.

Thank you, Chester. Thank you.

We're very, very grateful that someone who is a native Islander went away to get educated and then actually came back to find the job here on the Island. It's refreshing.

That's right.

And it's nice to see you again. I serve on that committee with you.

So I want to wish you luck in your new career as a lawyer. And since you're a derivatives lawyer, I assume you could explain to us all about these prediction markets.

Maybe not. We won't hold it against you that Chet is the one who introduced you. He's a very good lawyer and a very good friend.

That's true. But we do welcome you back. It's good to see you here. Next item on the agenda is board business. Is there any other business that any member of the board wants to bring to our attention? I hear none. Any staff reports? None. So I think we're ripe for adjournment, folks. I'll make a motion to adjourn. Ms. Fee made that motion. All in favor? Aye. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you very much.