Planning Board - Regular Meeting

[laughter] I don't care. Put it in your mouth. get soggy in it.

Before you start, I want to ask you something.

Sorry. Good evening everybody. Good evening. If there's no more seats, you're welcome to sit on a deas too. Grab a seat here. There's 10 chairs here. This is the people's house. All right,

folks. Feel free to sit. There we go. Okay, we're on YouTube live, so it's 7 o'clock. Uh, all good to go, Denise? Okay. Well, good evening. My name is Masali. I am uh your BA. I have been for the last three years, and I'm I'm told I'm the longest serving BA so far. I want to thank you for coming out tonight. I know it's a very cold night. Obviously, there's a lot of lots of, you know, passion about this uh subject. We're here to talk about the cell tower. Do we need the cell tower or not and where and all that? Uh the mayor and members of the council are here today, but they are here to listen. They're not making any decisions. They're not taking any notes. They're really just here to listen to you. Uh this town hall meeting is meant to be very informal. It's almost like you are with your friends and neighbors in someone's living room. Uh there are no testimonies on the record. There are no professionals uh to testify. Verizon is not here tonight for several reasons. Uh one of them is that they are coming to the mayor and council to officially present on the record and they'll also be presenting uh and testifying in front of the planning board and uh applying to the D permits. I do want to share a few facts before I turn it over to you and then we'll listen and uh we'll take some comments. Uh we've had many complaints from residents about cell signals in the last at least since I've been here three years especially from homebased businesses where they can't operate from home. They have Wi-Fi, yes, but they do need their cell signal. The schools and the first responders I have on the record from the school that they can't use it and their their services and their uh their cameras sometimes depend on cell signals so they can't use that. So the so they they use the uh the

Wi-Fi. Uh we went to Verizon in 20 in 2023 and we uh we went to them. They did not come to us. Uh we went to them and asked them um if they can uh take a look at the coverage area and they asked us if we own any any uh property in the area. So we showed them uh the Stonybrook and that from their perspective based on the geography was uh the best location. Folks, if you want to sit up here, feel free. [clears throat] So we went out to bid and we had only one bidder and that was Verizon. uh the governing body has not yet authorized the mayor to sign the lease. But even if they do o authorize the mayor to sign a lease, the lease is contingent on the planning board approval and D approval. The planning board will hear testimony from professionals. They will look at the structure itself, the setbacks, the environmental issues, and there sure to be many variances in terms of height and size and all that. Finally, the mayor and council has the obligation to maintain and provide services to the town among many other obligations, but they also have the obligation to provide and maintain public safety. They have to measure the risk of not having a cell service at the schools and the homes in the area versus the risk of having 150 foot tower in a residential area. If they did not take a look at that seriously, they're not doing their job. So, they are doing their job. With that, like I said, we are on YouTube live. We have two uh microphones uh that we will have to use so folks online can also hear us. I do ask you to please be cordial uh and respect the amount of time you take because we do

want to hear from everyone. And the council are here. They're all here, I believe. And maybe just uh to introduce them so you know who they are. Um, we have Councilman John Ruko. John, we just want to say hi so we know who you are. We have Councilman uh Chris Camp is here, Councilwoman Melissa, and we have the mayor, of course, Shinfield. Um, and then we have uh Bob Kleti, Councilman, and we have the mayor, uh, sorry, one mayor. Um, and then [laughter] we have two council members in the back. Councilman Anthony D. Rosa and council president uh council president Clemente. [laughter] I only have a couple slides to show you before I open it. So, so we all on the same page and we're handling the same information. Uh we received um several questions from council members as well as from the public. And what I did is I put them all into into into one uh just to combine them all. Where where did we look for uh locations you know beside this one and why this one was selected and others were not? How long will the construction of the cell tower take? What is the expected signal range of this tower? Are there alternative uh technologies? What is the property value impact uh around the cell tower? Will uh this tower cover the cell uh you know gap in the area? So these among minor questions so this would capture the majority of the questions with me here tonight also is our special counsel Peter Lup uh who is helping us who helped us with the bid and helped us with the contract. Uh he

may have some answers. He he he will not have all the answers. And we do have uh probably he can land a spaceship if he wants to, but he knows about RF signals. I'm I'm sorry, your name again?

Paul. Sorry, Paul. Uh so if there's any specific questions about the cell signals and all that, uh hopefully he can help us. So we looked at the coverage maps and the ones. So, this is for T-Mobile in the area where we're talking about uh there's no coverage. Um the orange and those colors, uh there's light to no signal. When you look at AT&T, there's probably more signal there. And then uh this is a Verizon and the cell tower that we're talking about uh proposing to go this is the pool the parking lot the first six spaces on this side are these six spaces and all these structures are the support in terms of electric power and generators is that power but this is the power. So this is the location that's in that's you know that Verizon wants. [snorts] So with that I'm going to go back to the questions and then we have two mics. I would appreciate if you just pass them around and then uh so they can all hear you. So if you have any comments to the council members and the mayor if you have any concerns if you're for or you are against you just want to say something. All I ask is we're not looking for big testimony. We're not we're not looking for a very technical information. You know, we have to bring it down one level until we have all the professionals in the middle.

All right. You guys start by answering those. All right. So, Peter, we have some answers. Yes. Correct.

Right. Good evening everyone. Peter Lupo. um the town's our um RF telecommunications attorney. So I can answer some of the questions for you off hand. Question number one, where are the [clears throat] other locations considered and why we were not selected? So I was not involved with the early um site acquisition portion of the project, but I did call up Verizon. I did ask some questions uh some of these get some answers. So there were other sites considered the high school is one of the locations I was considered according to Verizon. Um and the high school did not work out for their needs because uh they did approach the high school according to what I understand from Verizon and they were rejected. They were rebuffed because they have limit space. There's lots of fields around there. But according to the high school administration, those fields are being uh they're being spoken for already. Um they're being used for um sports purposes, soccer fields, football fields, and all of it's being used for his athletic program. Plus, it's a little bit far back. It's recessed and there may be some wetlands issues. So for those reasons, um the high school is not was thrown out as an option. Um also I know we uh one of the big issues with Hillsdale is not an issue. It's a good thing. Uh it's primarily residential. So most of the zones are zoned to be in a certain um area. So it's very much residential, very limited to commercial and um other types of spaces, other zoning areas. So that is why they uh settled on Stony Brook pool. That was their explanation. Um, number two, uh, how long will construction in the cell tower take? We're talking about just the stacking of the monopole itself. We're looking at two to three days. Have a crane out there. Um, they'll first pour the case on its concrete foundation. They let that they'll pour. They'll let it cure. And once it's cured, um, engineers decide that, have the crane out there, and they'll go ahead and stack the monopole. Traditionally, um, if it's 150 feet, 130 feet, I would say it's roughly three, four, maybe five sections, you might have pulled up a crane, they'll stack them into place, have bolted, um, is how they usually are put together. Um, bolts through the

ground. They'll have, um, rods up there, get steel rods when they when they actually um, pour the concrete and they'll put the base um, hole in there, set it in there, they'll bolt it down, and each additional stacking will have bolts that are fixed together. what is the expected signal range of this of this tower? Uh that is dependent on what Verizon's needs. Um typically you're talking about roughly two miles is the uh propagation level for the antennas. So figure out two miles, but that'll be dependent on whether RF the Verizon engineer determines is needed. But just as a as a point of reference, we take say two miles. Are there any alternative technologies people need for 100 150 foot tower? Last time we hear some of the residents ask about small cells and that is a technology that it has been employed. It is in use. Um but it is very dependent on topography and hillsdale as the name implies has a very um hilly topography and typically the small cell sites 38 foot high and because of foliage and because of the terrain 5G is not sorry I should say 5G um small cells is not a very good solution to [clears throat] address the coverage gap in town. Again, I'll allow RF engineer from Verizon to address that specifically, but that is a broad principle that you could uh they could assume. Uh what is a property value impact as a result of cell power? I am not a um subject matter expert in real estate. I'm a public communications FCC attorney, so I'm not really in a position to answer that question. Um obviously, you could go online, you do a quick chat, GBT, and get a whole range of results about impacts from positive to negative, but that is outside of my subject matter expertise. So, I'll defer that question. Uh, will this tower cover the cell coverage gap in the area? And the answer is yes. I spoke to Verizon. Uh, they're building it to improve coverage in the area. I know obviously we heard testimony from some of the residents who opposed it, but also you can see that there's a coverage gap in town at least in the in Stony Brook

section. So, that's fact. Um, so yes, the quick answer is yes, it will um bridge the coverage gap in the area. Think about other questions, right, Mike? So these are the main questions. [clears throat] So um with that I will handle the mic over to the mic mic. Okay.

Um so the RF um study um an RF study has been done. I think the most important thing would be that it's independent. So either party like Verizon doing the study that's not um you know that's not objective. So has an independent study been pursued been done and has the bureau requested that?

So Verizon you uses a um a standard which is typical in the industry and what's accepted by the FCC. So they they consult with a third party that does so it's not it's not Verizon they are paid by Verizon. So if your point is that they're paid well they're paid by Verizon they do an annual certification. I'm just yeah you know I'm just telling you the facts I'm not taking sides but they are qualified and they are a third party [clears throat] um RF firm that does these type of studies. So certainly if you challenge that you find sort of it's at least that the assumptions and the RF propagation signal is is not adequately being addressed is something I guess you can test with but it is a third party that is licensed to do that. They do have you know annual certification themselves. They do have RF technicians and radio frequency experts but again you're free to challenge those assumptions those results if you like.

Yeah they're being paid by Verizon is um is problematic. I I understand. We're gonna get We're gonna request from But I wanted to know if that has been shared. It has not been done yet. I'm going to request Oh, it hasn't been done yet. Yeah. So, one of the conditions of the of the use of the of the property is that they do a certification before they go on air. That's something I spoke to the mayor about. He insisted that before they go on. I'm sorry. Before they actually before they actually they build before they before they actually power up before they power up, they have to do Shouldn't that be done before it's actually any agreement is made? So before they actually go online and go on error, they'll have to provide a study before they go actually start powering up showing they're in compliance with the FCC.

And I'm going to do an annual certification. Why would you build this without providing? If you want that in advance, I can request it. I mean, if that's something you want, that's So So I just have something to say just on on that. My name is Megan and we met before. Megan, you're a physical therapist, right? Nurse. A nurse. Okay. Thank you. the RN RN thing or she was given away. Yes. Um but anyway, my question is then so if you're going to enter into a like 30-year lease that is very contractual prior to this study being done, why would you do that? Because you can't get out of the lease. Yeah. The the it's a condition done before.

True. What we do is before they go to their um to the planning board meeting, I'll request, you know, as a intermediary that they have a RF study to present. So, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm I'm not trying to be like argumentative that way, but if you sign the lease, then you go to the planning board. Is that correct? Um, yes. So, you have to sign the lease first. They won't go to the planning board until So, then you sign the lease and this has done. No, the lease is contingent on the approval from the planning board. If the planning board said no, the lease is null and void. Okay. Yeah. Mike put that out earlier. That's that's accurate. Hi, I'm uh Robert Berg. Hello, Robert. from the attorney group.

It's on. It's on. You're good.

Okay. Um my problem with this whole procedure is the burrow went to Verizon and said, "Where do you want to put a cell tower uh to solve our gaps in coverage?" That's putting the cart for the horse and you're going to have the fox guarding, you know, guarding the the hen house here. So, what you should have done here is hire an independent consultant to come and do a study of what's going on with the uh wireless coverage in town here. And then what they would do is do a drive by test using an RF uh signal meter and map out the coverage. And you would find, okay, Verizon is strong in this neighborhood. You'd actually get the signal strength. You, you know, make a map of this. You've done this, right? Uh, and you would come up with a map of the entire burrow and you'd have which cell carriers have what signal strength in what neighborhoods and you'd have a full map and you'd know where there are gaps in coverage if there are gaps in coverage. And then you would say, hey, we actually have great coverage in this whole side burrow here. We have some gaps. Oh, they're not really that big. We can put maybe a small cell in this area or a couple of small cells on existing utility poles and solve the problem here. Do we need a 150 foot tower in Stony Brook Park at the pool to solve this? Uh it's not going to get into these little niches and delves and gullies in the town. The signal is line of sight. So, your 150 foot tower is not going to cover your hilly little burrow. Uh, you're still going to need some small cells to fill in all these gaps. So, you're not approaching this, right? You went to the fox and say to the fox, here's our chicken coupe. Where do you want to go going through this? And that's what you've done here. So, why

would you do that? Why would you not hire an independent consultant to do a thorough study of what our needs are? where are the gaps and then see what the least intrusive alternatives are for solving the gaps because there are many you know technologies advanced so much over the past 25 years you don't solve the problem with a giant cell tower in the middle of your crown jewel this part that's insane and you don't do it by putting a giant cell tower 25 ft from the sidewalk and Cedar Lane a major thorough affair so when it falls down it kills 20 people walking down the street or something. That's crazy. Plus, you're in a flood.

So, why wouldn't you go the route of hiring consultant to do the study first and now you're in the situation where you want to sign a lease, lock yourself into this forever, and then go in front of the planning board. And then if the planning board declines the application because everyone gets back here and say, "This is a horrible idea. Don't do it here." Verizon's going to sue you because that's what they do. They do it every single time. So, [applause]

So thing I would say Rob is that there's no typical in um in wireless in acquisition. So we say that that the the procedure should be there's no manual there's no um rule book for doing this. So sometimes um you know someone who has a coverage gap will reach out to the carrier say hey you know we have a very big coverage gap and it's very often they'll reach out to a carrier and say hey there's an issue here we're concerned we have dropped calls people are not able to operate their businesses can't make 911 calls from the home. So that is one way of doing it is certainly one way of doing it. The other way is a carrier reaches out to you. They do own study, but at all times a carrier before they do 500, 600, $700,000 worth of money to build a tower is going to do their own research. Just because we said we want something here doesn't mean that we do it. They have to find their own findings and do a drive study, RF study. And again, I was going to follow the um the early acquisition portion of it or the RF study, but typically knowing the industry, they would have done that. been approached possibly or they've been approached the other way around to say, "Hey, there's an issue here for our customers and clients. We get lots of drop calls. We'd like to put a tower here." I know we spoke on the phone earlier. They said that carriers generally have very limited dollars. They're not going to put up a 150 foot tower unless there's a real need for the customers.

So, Peter, Mr. Ber. So these are good comments for the mayor and council to hear and they may just you decide instead of you know going forward maybe you know do a pivot and do something else but you know these are the kind of comments that we want to hear and have them hear if you have so these are that's exactly why we're here right we and I appreciate that it's great good so we can't you know debate it we can't we just want them to hear exactly what's on your mind and then let them let them decide. There's one behind you.

Hi. So before when you were answering the questions of were the other locations considered, you said one of the reasons why you didn't pick Pascat Valley was because it was a wetland. Correct. Oh, there's a whole bunch of reasons. One, well, high school rejected because they had no available space. They have mostly open space and fields. Well, I mean, that's already taken. It's a parking lot for children. But one of the things you said was that it's because it's a wetland. There might be some environmental issues behind there. It might be wetlands. Yeah. As my understanding, the Stony Brook parking lot is also a taken area on wetlands.

That's correct. Yep. Yeah. So that's up to Verizon. So So Verizon will will have to testify on the record why they chose why they think that location is the best location. I think you know the idea of Mr. Berg to do a study or or or give some information that it has to go there. Uh I I think we need to hear that. So they've done their analysis. We spent the last two years with their environmentalists. They looked at the power lines. They looked at uh how high. So the first one was to go behind it where the field is. And there's a there there's a roadway actually was you know nice access to it. But they have to build from we what we were told uh a 10- foot high the platform and then you to go up. Uh so they they picked the parking lot because it was easier maybe cheaper to uh to construct but these questions will have to go directly to Verizon.

Thank you. And Verizon would be the party that would be responsible going through any kind of regulatory approval. So if DAP D approval is required that would be held sale Verizon has to go through that process. Okay. Great. And just one other thing as I was thinking about this while I was laying in bed last night. I am a member of the pool. My daughter is my whole family is and I love going there and seeing all the people sunbathing staring up the blue sky and I'm just imagining being covered in a shadow by 150 foot tower. That is what everyone's going to be looking at. That's it. and imagine the planning board would also I think I mean yeah that's that really be so my final question have the people who frequently attend Stony Brook Pool been properly notified that there is a tower going to be built there

no thank you we have not done that let's pass the mic around Peter [clears throat] Peter can you give him the mic I had a whole speech but I'm going to forego that and just ask the question to piggy back our question have the parents parents of Meadow Brook School been notified that the tower is going to be directly across the street from their children? We have not notified. The only ones we notified were the superintendent to get their feedback and if they are in support of it. Uh both schools are in support of it. But as far as going to the families or send out we've been we've been telling you know folks you know through the emails that there's a tower we have these meetings but as far as direct mailing and saying 150 foot tower.

Yeah. No. So, there's been a lack of transparency, you would say. I mean, I get emails. I got calls about overnight parking. I got like eight of them in one night. I don't think that one little email saying, "Hey, we're going to build this 150 foot tower that takes a little more than two parking spots, Chris Camp." Um, it's really a [clears throat] problem. Um, and you know, homes 100 feet from there, across the street, $2 million house being built across the street. I'm sure you didn't notify Riverville residents either. We notified their uh governing body and their mayor. Okay.

Yes. Uh, we we have one here. Go ahead. Hi, Rob Stigliano. Uh, I'm a member of the pool and you said a little earlier and you said it actually twice now that Pasc Valley was able to reject and say, "No, we don't want it here because there's no room." Why wasn't the Stony Brook Pool Complex giving the opportunity to say, "No, we don't want it here." Because the town owns the pool and it's a it's a town property and the town doesn't own the property that the high school sits on. No, it's a it's it's a school property.

Yeah. But as courtesy, I mean, we've been talking about this, but yes, we we would come to you. So, the next step is for the mayor to sign the lease. Verizon will not do anything until they see a signed lease conditional on the approvals, of course. So, nothing has happened. Just we have one behind here and then go ahead. um question. In the drawing that you had shown, you showed about 65 ft uh area that could possibly take up um with the construction, but you had mentioned that there was the the center circle was the actual tower, but you mentioned like some electrical and some generators. So the question arises to me, what about sound?

Yeah. What is the sound production that there'll [clears throat] be sound? Yeah. So, and is that continual or is that only when there's power outage?

State New Jersey has is a fair question. So, the state of New Jersey promates noise levels and for, you know, they have it for daytime and night time. So, one of the things we require in the lease, I think resolutions, they comply with requirements for daytime and night time usage. So, there's a there's a dec. So, there's a cell tower 125 ft from us here. And I go there often because it's it's by the fire department. And there's one also by the DPW, which is directly it's inside the DPW. So, if you go to drop your recyclables, you pass by it. I don't hear any sound. There's a humming sound that's coming from one of the boxes, but it's it's not a loud sound. It's just a humming sound.

Let's Let's take one. There's one in the back, please.

Can I just say that I have um an article here that's 31 pages. I will spare you those pages, but the most important literature here is the impact it has on children. And it says, "Daily exposure to radiation from cell towers is considered a new form of environmental pollution. Effects from this in scientific research include increased cancer risk, cellular stress, headaches, sleep issues, genetic damages, changes to reproductive system. Cell tower radiation exposures are non-stop day and night. We can turn our cell phones off, but we cannot turn the cell tower off. And this is what concerns me, our children in this town. [applause] Can we test the mic first? Hey, could you go back to the map showing the coverage area, please?

The coverage area? Yeah. Actually, I'm gonna go to the one that we can actually u I'm not an expert. I just want to show you where I live. [laughter]

Which one? Which one you looking at? Yeah, I am. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I got you. I got you. which suit you want. You can just zoom out on that one. It's fine. Okay. So, you see those orange blocks? Yeah, these. That's where I live. So, there's no signal there. There's there's no signal. Um

I've had T-Mobile, I've had Verizon, they all share tower for what it's worth.

It's all roaming, so it doesn't matter who owns the tower. They're all buming signals off of each other. That's one. Two, I live right between both schools. Um can't catch a signal when I'm walking to take my kids. Can't catch a signal when I'm driving, when I'm running, anywhere in the area, whether it's there or Rivervale. Um, and you know, we work from home these days as well. So when Optimum goes out, as it frequently does, there's no means for us to work or connect with anybody, not even in emergencies. Um, and I know that that area is a high traffic area, especially people from Riverdale who also drop their children off or who may have children that are walkers. So there's um high pedestrian traffic even for people who just exercise and live in those surrounding communities. So there's absolutely a safety hazard beyond the other mentioned um issues with first responders and such. So I just wanted to illustrate that this is a real problem. I mean I've attempted to look into other solutions. I've attempted to push the companies to try to implement other temporary solutions even something like signal booster in the homes but they don't do that. They continue to tell us to rely on wireless sign the um Wi-Fi signal in our homes which you know doesn't really get the job done when it when there's no connection. So

and you have Verizon now. I had Verizon now I have T-Mobile. Are you a are you a proponent of the tower sir or Oh yeah. I'm I'm in favor of the tower. I mean I've lived close to towers before my entire life. I used to live in Premis. I do actually I have two children. Let's Sarah every time they leave the house they're in harm's way. Let's have the mic leave the house. Pass the mic to the frontier. Excuse me. One at a time, please, folks. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, ma'am. Excuse me. He's been waiting.

Uh, is it true that 5G is a higher frequency than 4G or 3G and that would impact not only the uh Hillsdale house? I don't know if the tenants there have been notified senior citizens uh also the school and I think it will impact the membership of the of the swim club. The generator itself is a diesel generator that requires to be filled. [clears throat] any spillage you have an environmental problem and have you considered it's a monopole have you considered a flag pole a tree pole any options in the TPW tower there's one carrier on that tower has Verizon looked at Okay,

there's a lot to you just as some of the questions a lot in there. We just need the mic. Oh, yes. Can everyone hear me or do I got a big YouTube? [laughter]

Um, all right. So, really quickly, 5G is a high frequency than 4G. That is accurate. 5G is already deployed. If you look at your phone and you see uh the signal bar, you'll see mostly 5G. So, yes, it's a high frequency and it has already been deployed. is being used for four or five years now. Um the second part about the um about the uh appearance that was one of the things I wanted to hit. You're absolutely right. There's different um ways we call concealment in the industry either stealth or concealment solution. So if you prefer a monopine we call monopines you want [clears throat] branches on the outside that is a possibility the planning board can make a condition of their proven or flag pole. Uh some people do flagless flag pole some people put a flag on it depending what you want. All those are options that that could be requested by a plane board condition or approval that Verizon would uh generally say that would be acceptable.

If you look at the tower in the Riverdale DPW, it's an abomination. There is at least 15 antennas on that tower and one of them is Verizon. I live on Everel and I get a at least a 4G sometimes a 5G from that tower is you look at that it's an abomination it's 12 to 15 antennas on that tower

I'm with you on that I I hate that when it's sloppy they have big stansions popping does the rising intent on leasing out space Yes.

So a few things is well number one uh one of the questions that went up here can it be lower? It could be tower could be smaller uh but it could be expandable depending on how many carriers are on there. So the idea is we want to get as much coverage for as many people as possible. The gentleman back there children mentioned that you know that he had to switch around different carriers to find sufficient coverage. He's having issues with it. So the idea is that you have a coverage gap for one uh carrier have for multiple. The idea is to have as many there as possible. But to your point, if you want to care about aesthetics, and I care about aesthetics in my town, and I I understand why you care about aesthetics in your town, that's one of the conditions that the pling [clears throat] board can impose as a condition of the approval is that they do some sort of um concealment. They could do flush mounting how we will hang.

Well, if they use the flag, it will be only one carrier. You can have multiple carriers on there. You can have more than one carrier. Not really. So we don't want to you know to debate here uh you know with the technicalities. Do you have a message to the mayor and council? Yes. I'm a building tower. Okay.

OKAY. [applause]

That's okay. I'll wait my turn. Um, I just want to first start start off by saying thank you to the mayor and council for finally um doing something about the poor cell service in our town. Um, just to reiterate what the woman in the back was saying about the 37page article about it being dangerous to children. Uh, the funny thing about the internet is no matter what search you put in, it'll give you what you want it to give you. And um when I went on and I found something from the American Cancer Society who has repeatedly said that there is no strong evidence that exposure to radio frequency waves from cell towers cause any noticeable health effects. Furthermore, at ground level near typical cellular base stations, the amount of energy from RFways is hundreds to thousands of times lower than the safety limits set forth by federal communications commissions and regulatory author authorities. Another lady said, "Do you have children?" I have two children. I have a child at Metobrook and I have a child at George White. And would I put them in harm's way? My kids are in harm's way. I live in that orange and I have not minimal service. I have zero service. So when there is a medical emergency for my children, I can't call 911. I have Wi-Fi. I had to buy network extenders. I have to I have done everything as a parent to protect my children and I cannot protect them because I have no service. When I tell you, if you go outside in my driveway, calls, you can't even make a call. But if you're on one, by miracle, it is dropped. Last summer, my son decided he was going to swim in my pool underneath, god knows why, with his eyes closed and swam directly into the side of my pool. My husband was outside with him and he couldn't make a call.

He had to leave my son with my daughter to go inside and make a phone call. This is our reality for the people that live in that orange. I don't care about aesthetics. I care about the safety and well-being of my children as their mother. And I can't protect them. So, I thank the mayor and council for finally doing something so we can protect our kids and our families. I have my parents are 76 years old and I know we're not doing personal testimonial, but what am I supposed to tell my family when they come over or the elderly that come over to my house? Excuse me. Would you mind just having your heart attack on the south side of my town of my house so I can possibly get self- service so I don't have to leave you to call 911? That's absurd, right? It is absurd. This is my reality and I'm speaking with such passion because I keep hearing about aesthetics and what it looks like that when did that become more important than the well-being and safety of our families and our ch and our children. Everyone keeps saying the safety, the safety, the safety. You're not thinking about the safety of people who live there who cannot call for help. Our emergency services are phenomenal. We have wonderful EMTs, fire department, police departments. They can't get to us unless we can call them. And when you have been in a situation when you cannot call them or until you've been in that situation, you have no idea what it's like to be as scared as a mom when you can't get in touch with emergency medical services.

Okay. Thank you. [applause] Thank you. Guys, folks, hold one at a time, guys. I'm land. But when my son is outside and in danger, he still had to leave him to go inside. I had to buy a landline. I bought a landline network. Ma'am, please, please, we're folks, one at a time, please. We will hear everybody. Just let everyone talk freely, please. Sir,

um, hi, my name is Sam and I live in Stonybrook as well. Um, I'm on the condo board and I want to just make one thing clear and I think I could speak for most of us is that we want the service too. It's important to us as well and we we share so many of those same concerns. like without a doubt, we just want it to be done right and we want it to be done in a place that's not going to be in harm's way when it comes to civilians. We also want to ensure that it doesn't impact our property values, which that could be a significant number and the tax implications that are going to follow that. We actually

What's your message from the board to the mayor and council? We are opposed to the location of the tower and the solution that is proposed because we don't think that there's been a lot of uh research done on the impact that it's going to have on our safety and on our property values. And we actually brought in another expert. His name is Mark Godsteiner and I think that I would like him to say a few words about the real estate aspect because he is an expert and he can talk to it. Just so you know, this is not on the record. This will not be recorded as a a testimony or anything. It's just an opinion.

Good evening. Uh my name is Mark Goddiser. I'm I live in West Hartford. And um I have six years experience of doing 70 telecommunication sites for Bellanic Mobile and Verizon Wireless. In 1996 to 2002, I built out in Connecticut and Western Mass the network that you need to get to 3G, 4G, and 5G. Uh, I am a certified general appraiser and uh, I've been in real estate 48 years. I've been a certified general appraiser since 1988. There are studies out there that do depict that if you are within sight of a tower, you will have a loss of your property value. Now, we're here we and and as a real estate manager employed by Verizon back in the '9s, um there are issues that we overcame to make a site work and there are aesthetics that have been mentioned, but the location should be tantamount. And if if that's the location, there's got to be a way to make it work with 5G small cell sites off of a 2G, 3G, 4G system. Uh I'm not an expert on RF like you, sir, but I did a lot of transactions. And when I did a transaction, usually I got the other at the time there were six carriers. So when I did transactions, I would work with all the different carriers to make it work and I would make it work. So the town would get some money if it if we can make it work. But this situation that you're under, there's a lot of issues that I see and I I I understand. I did a transaction. Little did I know 20 years

later I'd be moving underneath the mountain and I have poor service. So I have a landlock but and I can't get Verizon to change it because of the location the way it is. But I did that transaction in 1999 2000. So sir for tonight what's your message to the mayor and council message is that there should be a more thorough interaction with all the carriers not just Verizon okay you and if the town is that hellbent on making money on this then it should look into all the aspects and the biggest aspect that I'm here for is that property values will have some dissipation of value it may be 2% it may be 5% %. Okay.

But when you look at all the properties around, it may have an impact on your resale. It may have an impact and there'll be a big stigma in your town. Got it. And I and I after doing what I did, I think there's a lot of things you need to look at. Got it. Thank you, sir. Okay. There's one more mic. [applause] So, I have a few questions. My first question, we'll come back to you, ma'am. How is this cell tower compared to the one over here in terms of RFMs and power signal same? Uh I don't have the actual data for the so here so I don't want to

so my question about the health concern is are we putting our fire department our EMTs our police department our middle school which is just as close as the one that we met at risk and the staff because now I'm because now I'm concerned. So now I'm concerned, right? So this cell tower here, we have all our first responders right here. Are you telling me that they're in danger now with this health? So what's your message to the mayor and council?

Well, my my question is if we're talking about health concerns, then are we just I'm asking here if that's an issue and my other concern is I understand about you know re revisiting this and stuff like that, but now we're getting back to the same things as our fields in our town or our school. How many much time? I've been here 27 years. I've been living in the dead zone 27 years. And yes, I have children. My children went through Metobrook, George White, and my last one is a PV. And you want to talk about no service, let me tell you, you can't get in touch with your kid at all. So, if you have to pick them up, there was last year there was a huge hail storm at uh at the end of the day, there was kids all over the place. It's it's terrible. And I agree it has to be done and it should be done somewhere, but this cannot be kicked down the road like everything else does in this town. This has to be addressed.

Are you in favor of it? What's that? Are you in favor? Absolutely. I think we need it. It's a to me it's a safety issue for our kids. Got it. Can you pass it to to the front here, please? We'll come back to you. We'll come back. We'll come back to you. I have a follow-up question to the attorney who spoke or real estate person. How much do property values drop by not having connectivity to the internet? This is a um No, it's not working. You know, you go

when you worked and did these studies, it was what 20 years ago. It's a different world today where where people are dependent for their safety. and for even their livelihood by having connectivity. So I would challenge the the um theory that real estate values go down. In fact, I say real estate values go up by having connectivity.

Okay guys, one at a time. And and secondly, if we're also concerned about health, I would like to challenge anyone to give me specific evidence with concrete data of health problems around [clears throat] a cell tower. And thirdly, I would like to ask all of you who are so concerned about not in my neighborhood, are you willing to give up using your cell phones? Because there's more evidence that using a phone next to your head causes more problems and and health risks than any RF from 5G.

All right. Thank you, ma'am. We have one question in the back. Yeah. Hi, David Woff. I live on Willow Brook Road. Uh which is behind the high school essentially. Can you speak?

Yes. Uh we don't have good self service and uh you leave the house, you can't make a call. Uh it's a problem, but I don't know if I want to trade that problem for a worse problem, which would be a 150 foot very ugly cell phone tower. Maybe that's a quarter of a mile away from my home. I don't even know if if it works on a line of sight. I would even get a benefit from it because I live in a dip at down a a hill that's probably like 40 feet deep, maybe 50 feet. And if I can't benefit from the cell tower, what's the point of having it? And of course, consequently, we're all going to be looking at it as we go through our day. We all see the [clears throat] cell phone towers and we know no one likes a cell phone tower. It's ugly. So I think it's a question of balance and I guess I'm I I'll make do if I if I have to see something if I have to look at something ugly, I'd rather not have one.

I just have a question. I was asked to come. I'm not a Hillsdale resident. I'm actually the president of Holiday Farms and I was asked to show up here on behalf of Stonyberg and my question is as you know Holiday Farms is less than a half a block away from this proposed cell. Does Riverale have any say in in this location? Uh no no we So they're actually happy that it's in Riverale and they'll get some benefits. Uh but talking to the mayor and council uh they have no concerns. So they they speak on behalf of Riverbell.

Well, they're elected officials. They're they're voted by am I sitting here for another hour or am I you know going home? They'll be noticed. So yes. So so the answer is no. So if they are in the perimeter they they'll be noticed. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

Hello. Um I guess uh I'm a little confused by the forum here because I thought it was a Q&A and I think we're going to rely on experts here. Um so I guess when's the right time to ask experts questions um Sure. for this. So there's a few opportunities. Verizon is going to come to the mayor and council meeting public hearing. What date is that?

So either on the 3rd or the 10th would be the following meeting in February. So we will announce all that. We'll send out in the email. I'm waiting for Verizon to confirm which one they can make. So that's that's one forum. If the governing if the council gives the authorization to the mayor to sign the lease with uh the conditional approvals then that goes to the planning board that's a whole different hearing. So we have the chairwoman of the planning board uh they will testify they will have their professionals. We will have our own professionals uh and the public will have the opportunity to also be there and ask questions. So the public on the record

public has two opportunities to ask more than two questions. You'll have more than two opportunities. Yeah, at least two. Um, I guess since you're the expert on our negotiations with Verizon on this matter, is there anything Do we know what happens if because the way I understand the lease is it's five years and then it's options to renew four times. So, we're really only tied down for five years and then they get to decide whether they want to renew it or do we like So, it automatically renews. There's initial term of five years and it automatically renews. So, it's not optional. That's right.

So, no. So, it's a it's a a first of the it's an initial term of five years with four or maybe five. We haven't seen the actual uh lease from Verizon. I'm still waiting for their attorney to send that over to us. So, I have not yet, but typically it's initial term of five years and then four or five additional renewal terms. They automatically renew. Automatic renew. So, they can't reneg on that renewal of renewal. If they're in default, then yes, if they didn't pay rent or they have material breach of their lease, then they then it could be terminated. Okay. So, say they something does happen, they terminate their lease. Who is responsible for the tower going forward? Does it get taken down? It's being taken down. Who pays for that? Who maintains it?

Good question. Verizon is required to maintain it for the longevity of of the pole itself. And at the end of the lease, if they're a default or at the natural expiration of the lease, say it's 25 years in total, then typically the way the the lease is written is that the township has the option of owning the pole. Say, for example, you want to put lights on it or use it for E91 uses, towers, whip antennas for emergency network. It' be at the option of the town to either keep it or require the uh tenant, this case Verizon, to decommission it, take it down, and restore it to its original state. Okay. And then does the bureau have any ideas on what they intend to do with the monies that they receive from this lease? Um, I'll leave that for mayor and council. Yeah.

Okay. So, just as a followup, the chairwoman reminded me when it goes to the planning board, the planning board refers it also to the fire department, to the police department, to the environmental commission and whole slew of other things that they have to go through. Plus, they have to go in front of the D to get a D approval. So there's a whole number of opportunities for the public to speak. Good. Yes sir.

Uh there is abundant evidence that property values are adversely affected by proximity to a cell tower. The impact is greater as you get closer to the cell tower, especially if there is a clear line of visibility for the cell tower. But there is abundant evidence documenting this and it ranges anywhere from about 2% to 20%. I throw out the outliers like that. But uh I have looked at this extensively and I would be very happy to provide an annotated bibliography on the subject for the mayor and council if they would be interested in looking at this further and I would encourage them before the next meeting to look more closely into the question of property values.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. pizza. We have one there and then we'll come back. Just follow up on that for May.

I also hear both sides of this question and I would also encourage mayor and council to find a winwin situation. Not the tall tower, but the deployment of let's say small cell antennas or something similar following a study of how effective they would be. so that this young lady here and all the other people who are concerned about their families will be able to get connectivity and that could include a one of these little pizza boxiz at the near the swimming pool as well. There are I think there are solutions and I would encourage mayor and council to look at both of those to look at the alternative solutions and also to look at property values before going to the uh uh planning board and hopefully to make their findings available to the public on the website.

Excellent. These are all amazing comments for the American and council. I'll come back to this. Where's the second mic? Go ahead. Hi. Uh I wanted to ask regarding the gaps in coverage that we see in orange. Uh do I understand correctly that uh there has been no study to identify why they exist, what's causing the lapses because uh previously it was stated that FCC said we are 100% covered in terms of uh cellular coverage. So uh do I understand correctly that we don't know why coverage is in fact so bad and we have these laps?

Yeah. So we as town we don't know maybe they do as far as u you know for T-Mobile and them but as far us we have no studies we're just like you the phone doesn't work oh it doesn't work so what I wanted to ask is if we don't know the reason for the for these problems and these gaps in coverage can we then uh it's not guaranteed that a cell tower will make them better and fix it is that is so someone mentioned to hire a consultant and and to take a look at where there's gaps before we do anything else. So, these are all points I'm taking down and they're being recorded too for us uh to go back to. Can you pass Mike to the back there? The gentleman has been waiting.

Go ahead, sir. How you doing? Um the the the win-winwin just start with that. You're never going to get that mayor and council. You're never going to get win-win win, right? The idea of small cells keeps coming up. keeps and I agree with everything you guys are saying. Small cells though are now going to be 40t off the ground. 38t high 38 feet off the ground. Right. Where are we going to put them? Sidewalk in the rightway. Utility rightway. Typically rightway on a sidewalk. It's going to be about 354t from someone's house. Depending on the setbacks.

Okay. So you got a second story window in your house and you're looking out your window. You're going to be looking at the top of a small cell. businesses. So, I agree. Don't get me wrong. Have you guys been approached by a company that does small sale? Yes. About two years ago, 5G and they were they were they actually looked at 38 different sites. So, to have 38 poles. Yes. So, there's there's companies out there that will do multicarrier small cell poles. They're considered smart poles or you guys drive around, you might see them in other towns on utility poles, wood utility poles where they they mount the antennas to the top. Yes.

So, if you do that with the utility poles, that's one carrier, right? So, correct me if I'm wrong, you're the expert. In a couple years from now, the experts are saying that you're going to need one of those poles every two or three blocks for cell to for small cell coverage. Football fielded propagation for a small cell. For a small cell. Yes. So now what we're saying is we're going to go small cell every football field within Burrow of Hillsdale. You're going to need a small cell. What does that know? He's the expert. It's the perimeter of a football field.

Small cell will be 3840 ft in the air. It's going to propagate 100 yards. It's what the expert up there just said. So now you're talking one of those every football field apart or let's say two football fields. And now we put those that's one carrier. So figure every blocks you're going to have three carriers, right? There's three major carriers now. So every three 10 blocks you're going to have three poles with the same thing on it. There are options where you can get a smart pole that is multicarrier. They're not that great looking. You can look them up. I believe they're on the internet. Uh they're deployed in New Jersey, right? There are some towns at Jersey Shore have deployed multicar small cell

without going into the technical issues here. So what I'm what I'm getting at 15 foot 150 foot pole 100% I agree is is is going to be an eyesore and the people that live around it it's it's you're going to lose some value on your home possibly. But if you go small cell you're going to get better coverage throughout the town. I believe it's something we should look into as a town because as far as putting up these polls and the town getting into a conversation with a small cell carrier or a company that installs these poles, there's other options as well. I mean the the police department can get on them with cameras. You can have um ALPR systems that are put on these polls. They don't blend well. I mean, Google them. There's, like you said, there's towns in the South Jersey that have them. I know for a fact that one of the companies that does this actually reached out to Pave. I believe they even have an agreement with PV. I know that's not with the mayor and council. If anyone here might know, they I believe this company has an agreement with the high school to place it on high school property to get the internet coverage there. It's going to be a 38 or would be a 38 foot.

So you're asking the mayor and council to look at small cell. I mean if that's something you guys have already looked into and and that's something but just I want everyone here to understand too. You're talking one big pole in the middle of town that's going to be by a school or you're talking 38 small poles that are 40t in the air that's going to affect every every couple of blocks you're going to affect people's homes. So the 40t is uh not the right number but we're not going to argue this. They're shorter, but doesn't matter. So, small cells were we expert. You just said it right. 43 feet high. 38 feet high. Okay. The ones we saw were like a a light pole. Yeah. 30 ft high is a typical size of a wood utility pole. That's roughly.

Yeah. And they're mounted to the top. Okay. All right. So, the other thing is you have this pole here, right, which is in proximity to George White. And I don't know if anyone realizes it, but and Blanch School also has a tower right within threequarters of a mile right on the Parkway. And there's actually antennas on the overpass. So, I mean, if you look anywhere, they're in town. They're not going anywhere. I would suggest we look into small cell. I think there's more options with small cell. Got it. But thank you. We have one. Where's the other second mic? You have it. I have a very quick question. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. So, the site right now is supposed to be at Stonybrook in that corner, right?

And you're telling me it's about six spaces. Yes. Right. Um on the bid, isn't there something that says that it's a 50 by 50 area that will be needed? It's that map that I had before. Yeah. So, it's a 50 by50 area. Okay. So, I know somebody had mentioned something about the pool and pool membership and that. So the amount that the town is apparently leasing it for is it it's about 48,000 per year. Correct? For one carrier.

For one carrier. And then there's a potential that you could ask. So in the bid, does it have an amount that you guys would I can't even speak. [laughter] The burrow would receive per carrier that gets added on.

It's about $3,500 a month per carrier. Okay. So, a significant amount. Okay. So, the potential is also that within the pool. So, as people have said that, you know, you have like a young mom or families that go in and parties are typically take place at the little pavilion that is there. There's an enormous tower. Again, yes, I do think that we need to have better self-service, but I remember [clears throat] I think your RF was saying that underneath there, you're not going to actually get better service. So, Stony Brook pool itself is not going to get better self-service.

The potential is that the membership could go down, right? Because, you know, it it's not just that it's an eyesore, it's kind of scary. Got it. So, God forbid this was to fall down. And I know that you guys are going to come back at me and say they don't fall down. They do. They have. Okay. There's been unfortunately a lot of things that have happened. They've caught fire. There's been ice. This is also about 30 feet away from a stream. That was supposed to be a short question.

I'm sorry. [laughter] I didn't realize that was going to be longwinded. Um, it's like 30 feet away from a stream. It's also right on like a like a a park and a walkway. That's right. What's your message? No, my question I do [laughter] have a question. What's your short question? What is it? My question is that so how are you going to offset the fact that the pool you guys have borrowed money from the pool in the past and now if they end up being in the red, who's going to help them out? Because all it's going to take is like 40 to 50 memberships for them to lose. Got it. I'm not going to debate it or or uh that's that's a question,000. That's fair question. 48,000 that you guys are saying that you'd receive, that's 48,000 that they'd be losing. Okay. Or more.

Fair point. So, is our taxes going to go up? Like, what's going to happen? Who's going to be in charge of that? How's that going to affect them? We're taking all this in. Got it. But I don't have an answer. [laughter]

Where's the other mic? Uh oh, she has it. Go ahead, Pam. Um, just wanted to follow up on something. So, you had mentioned that uh, first of all, I've lived in town for 20 plus years and I'm well aware of the cell phone issues and if you don't have an issue with your cell phone, you're very fortunate and then you probably know somebody that does. So, it's a well-known issue and everybody can agree that you need to come up with a solution. Um, you had mentioned that the areas that do not or have poor service or have no service, you're not sure as to why they don't have the service. So what I'm questioning is if you mentioned when you were speaking in the beginning answering the questions you use the language of Verizon says it will improve service. You use that word improve not guarantee. My question is this tower goes up and things are still the same. People still have problems. [clears throat] And I know it sounds like that's not a possibility but if we don't have an answer as to why there's no if it's a topography issue um you can't change that. So my question is, you're entering into a lease that's five years initially. If nothing has nothing changes, is there anything in that contract that says, you know what, it's not working. We don't want anymore. What what grounds does the town have

or does the town have any grounds to remove the tower or say, you know, this this didn't work for us? Um, it's a real question. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Anything in the lease? I don't have an answer as to why there's not if if the FCC site says Hillsdale has 100% coverage. Yeah. So, this is that must mean there's something else going on. I mean, I live at a bottom of a hill. I have spotty service, um, dropped calls, etc. So, I could see how topography could definitely be a thing, but no one's really saying that's for sure an answer. Um, and I'm just concerned this tower goes up and what if it doesn't work? Is there a plan to move from there?

So there's two questions. The first question, so just two questions. The first question is, so their map, if it's red, there's no signal. There's no red anywhere in that area. So as far as they're concerned, there's some signal, but we know there's no signal because we've we know that. So that's from their side. As for what's inside the contract, if we put the cell tower, Peter, and it doesn't work, we still don't have signal. Is there anything inside the contract that you looked at that can we can back out?

We can discuss a little more about that. Typically, they put up a tower. Two reasons why there's usually lack of coverage is either lack of reception is because of either capacity. That means Oh, thank you. I'm not sure if you're able to hear me back there, but the two reasons why there's typically issues with uh with coverage in the area is one called capacity. That means there are a lot of people using the service. each radio that's in the cabinet um drops calls because there's too many people use there's a finite amount of uh usage of each one of these radio units and you have a drop call. The other reason reason is because of what's called coverage meaning that the signal is in each other those areas. So these areas are orange red uh and other colors. Green's bigger capacity is because you have um towers in your green and to the right that are covering it and then the signal doesn't reach that middle area over here. So the idea of building a tower uh at the pool would cover that that would uh that would address that that cover.

So that's my question to you because you used the word improve that was the word you use not and I'm not trying to Yeah. You know but you use the word it they said they would improve service not guarantee it. So my question is to the council what's the backup plan for Hillsdale if this thing goes up and and maybe that's the solution. I don't know ultimately. But if it goes up and it's not the solution, you're going to have a lot of people that are upset. Not only the people that were promised service and it didn't happen, but the people that had concerns about it and to begin with and it went up and it didn't happen. So where why does Verizon have a contract that only they can renew? Like what's our out if it doesn't work? target.

So, I mean, potentially we could talk to, you know, um discuss this further of having a provision that if it if the the coverage doesn't improve, you know, doesn't doesn't go ahead and cover that gap that uh that there's a that could be grounds for termination. Like as if our our town has the right to say, "Okay, that didn't work for us. We're going to have to come up with another solution." And maybe it's the small cell like that's been discussed or whatever else or maybe it's small cell first and then that. But, you know, what's the out for us? We shouldn't have to be locked into a 30-year contract. That fair not be

and on the day of the of the of the playing board, they'll come a whole suite of professionals. Have a professional planner. They'll have RF engineer the construction. Some of those questions we asked because I don't want I'm not in the shoes of Verizon. So, you can go ahead and ask those question directly to the Verizon planner and RF engineer. But in terms of the contract and lease itself, that's something we could definitely explore. Okay. Thank you. Let me take the back or just one question. Have you ever seen? Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

You want to folks folks folks listen Mr. Burger? Hold on. Hold on. Mr. B, please. I've been You've been really, really, really good with me. Work with me. Uh, I appreciate that. I will come back to you. I promise you. Let me just uh because we have the mics and then uh we'll come back to I promise. Sir, go ahead.

I'd like to say a few things. I have a few reasons and a couple questions. So, everyone's worried about like students not being able to like receive calls from the people. It doesn't matter at all because the governor put a phone ban in. So, there's no way of reaching any of the students at all, which is her ban. Um, and you can also call the main office, which is the old way of doing it. You can send an email to your kid or any way out. People are worried about uh cell phones and all that stuff being able to reach. There's wireless landlines that connect perfectly fine.

Um, and I mean, maybe there's a different spot or a smaller tower to put somewhere else. I mean, it's definitely a risk to people if you're putting it right by a pool. I mean, people pay so much in uh fees to go to the pool. If you're losing customers that are losing parking spots, um, and then just where's the money going to go towards paying back for that just [clears throat] put in? Like, just not sure about that. Good point. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Can you pass the mic to Mr. Burke just as a followup? I want to hear his followup, please. I have a just my question. When do you think you'll appear before the planning board?

So, first So, first the mayor has to sign the lease with the conditions. The council has to give him the approval to sign the lease. So, the council wants to hear first from Verizon. They're coming either February 3rd or the 10th or uh 3rd or the 11th. Will it be before the end of this year? Yes. Yes, definitely. Definitely. Definitely. Mr. Burke, can we Thank you. Peter, you've done hundreds of hundreds of cases with these carriers, right? Have you ever seen a lease for a Verizon that's given a municipality the right to terminate the lease if the municipality is not satisfied with the coverage that comes off the I've reviewed hundreds of I've never seen that.

It never happens. They would never here's also because the every time a tower goes up coverage improves dramatically. Not necessarily. And let me ask you this. You see those two orange areas areas where people are saying there's no coverage, right? Those areas where saying they have no coverage. Wouldn't that be a perfect place to put a small cell tower or a couple of them to solve the problem? That's for that's for Verizon. Yeah, let Verizon answer that. No, you're you're [clears throat] design systems municipalities and you represent them and say this is a better solution. Wouldn't you recommend?

No. Hold on, Mr. B. I don't want to put him on the record saying something and then you said, "Well, you said that at this meeting." That has to be in front of the planning board or the council meeting in official capacity. Okay. My problem is I don't want the council to enter into a binding contract which ties up the municipality for 30 years. uh which they can't back out of and there's a simple solution to these serious problems that people have which we all agree need. So as you know the format this would go in front of of the planning board with all the professionals. No, it'd be conditional on the approval of the planning board. But what will happen is planning group denies it and then Verizon will sue the burrow. They always sue the burrow upon a denial in federal court.

Okay. Dele with this dozens and dozens. So your message is don't don't sign the lease the contract. Don't sign the contract until you study the problem [applause] and figure it out. Everyone wants to figure it out. I just don't want you to be stuck with contract that you can't get. Got it. There's a mic here. Mic back there. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Go ahead.

Um my name is Jamie. Um I have a senior and a freshman at PV. I'm also the PFO president there. So I work very closely with the school. Um we have been trying to brainstorm as much as possible if there are ways because unfortunately when you look at that map um Pasc Valley falls right inside of there where there is no cell phone service. Um, and as a community eventually we need to figure out what has to be done because we have students that are sitting there and we have no way to get in touch with them. And it's scary as a parent, and I understand, and I commend you for bringing it up, that there's a landline in the main office, but at five o'clock when you have a child that you have to pick up and you can't find them. As a parent, it's a horrible, horrible feeling, and you have no way to get in touch with them, and you don't know where they are. And now when it's dark at 4:30 and you're looking around and you don't know where they are, it stinks. It's horrible. and on a football game and that place is a mess and you don't know where to pick them up, you have no way to get in touch with them. So, I understand that, you know, there's a lot of concerns, but we need some type of solution that gets cell phone service to this area.

We really do. We need something that So, Jamie, I have a message from uh the superintendent of PV, Mr. Derek Phillips. Uh beside wanting to have a cell signal, more importantly, there are safety concerns related to not having reliable cell phone service on school property. Our ability to contact emergency services is reduced for events after school hours and on weekends when individuals may have limited access to landlines. So that's uh we have tried we have tried even with the students where parents were using G-Chat to communicate with students. They just shut that down because they had 1 million Ghat conversations between parents and students over a short amount of time.

And for security issues too, uh I know we have two fine officers here. Their radios don't work inside the school. Does it work? You can ask them. Not that I want to put that. No, they're here. They're here. They're here. We know that they can't communicate either. God forbid there's an emergency inside and they can't do radio. they can't use a cell phone and they don't have access to a landline because of whatever room they are in. Then what? So that's where the mayor and council are working with. Thank you. Who didn't speak at uh Sarah and then we'll come back to you. So

thank you to the council members who are here for listening to all of our concerns. And I just want to amend and clarify my comment earlier for cutting off my neighbor back here. Um, I think to my message to the mayor and council as they make this important decision and make the next steps going forward is that there if there is absolutely one thing that every single person in this room will agree on is that no one wants to do anything that is medically dangerous for any resident of Hillsdale. You young to old, animals included. And I think it's really prudent to sort of weed out the alarmist nature of cancer causing and all sorts of other things that you can come up with that are somewhat unfounded because the truth is we are living among them. And if that is your main concern, you'll have a hard time finding a place to live in New Jersey. And as a parent, I just find it a little tough to swallow that if I were if I happened to be on council and I voted to put a cell tower up that people might think I don't care about the health and safety of their children. I know my message to the council. We all know that you don't think that if you do decide to go forward with a new cell tower of any size in any location in Hillsdale. And um I think there's let's focus on what we all agree on and finding the solution which is we need better service there for safety and we don't want to do the wrong thing for safety.

Okay. Let's hear from someone who didn't speak yet and then we'll come around. Anyone who didn't speak yet? Can I just make one comment only? We've complained we have no self- service in holiday forms either. Okay. And what somebody brought up topography myself many a time at least five and other residents they told us there's too many trees in the area so I don't know how this cell tower and the number of trees in the area is going to come together. Okay. Okay. Thanks. Yes, ma'am. Your mic is turned off.

Uh Ralman. Uh I live near the high school. All right. And high school already has complained they don't have any cell service. But then they don't want the cell tower in the back of the high school. They have the room back there behind the football field in front of the tennis courts. It is also a budding county property that would be out of sight. It would be camouflaged a lot and [clears throat] it would provide a service [applause] that everybody needs. Now the other location which I haven't heard mentioned and I don't even know it was considered or there's probably very logical reason why not. Uh,

Sapienza Garden. Okay, hold on. Centennial Field.

Thank you. Centennial Fields. That is a very large area back there. And it also backs county property, which would not affect anybody and it wouldn't be around where the kids are all the time in school and it wouldn't affect the swim club and it wouldn't affect the aesthetics of the town. People cross the border. One block you have Cedar Lane. On one side is Riverdale. The other side is Hillsdale. On the other side you have the Fairways, [snorts] multi-million dollar complex in Riverdale. You have Holiday Farm, another complex. Who do you think is going to get all that service above the Hillsdale people? Got it.

I don't want to hear the high school complaining they don't have service when they have their nose up in the air and they don't want it in their backyard. Okay, got it. [applause] Anyone else would like to speak yet? Hold on, sir. Is there

test? Sorry, because of my location, I'm in the spotlight, but I'm going to be try to be very quick. Um, I moved to the town about six months ago and uh I live in the the orange area as I have no service whatsoever. So I guess the everyone is agree that we need some kind of service and you know we live in this town and when you have a service you don't kind of think this kind of stuff every single day what might happen to your kids because I got 16 months and I have 5-year-old and if they got and I have elderly parents if something happened to them who am I going to blame to are you going to take the blame and this is not person or anything but if when we have this conversations it's really u impacting a lot of people all I'm asking from everyone to think through and god forbid during the emergency what would have happened to your children. Why would you feel when you're somebody asking why don't you use a landline? It's not an option. We sent a guy to a moon, you know, 57 years ago. We cannot put a, you know, the poll to the Hillsdale just crazy 2026. So, all I'm asking everyone to I completely understand that this is my first meeting. I'm trying to understand how everybody's, you know, reactions are, what their reasonings are. But please just wake, let's just work together to put something so we have service. at least about a month and a half ago uh Verizon uh uh the uh the the line was down on on the ground and god forbid if there's another truck they hit the ground I would have no connection whatsoever like I'm completely in the dead zone I'm all I'm asking everyone to think through what everyone is going through when you have a cell service at home so thank you

since you sit here you can vote is your vote [laughter] yes they put me in a spotlight I didn't want to but is your vote yes yes okay absolutely we have one vote no matter what the solution is I absolutely think that it has to be quick because we don't want to go to another 5 10 years to discuss about this stuff. Let's just take action. Thank you.

Okay. Is there anyone else who didn't speak yet? Hold on. Let me make sure. Sir, can you give him the mic and then we'll come back to you next? Next. It was on. I was just wondering um I heard some talk about low power units that are smaller in a in an environment where the science is uncertain, bigger tower putting out more power is a greater risk maybe than more diversified smaller towers putting out less power. Um have you guys looked into that option to get the service you need at the high school?

No. for so for this project. No. Two years ago, like someone said and we we said we had a company that come in to install 5Gs on poles and they were looking for to install 38 poles around town. Um and we passed an ordinance in 2023 or 24 uh just so we have control over that in case we have to go that way and 5G was the only service to control where they go. That's as far as we went. It seems like a solution uh that will make everybody happy. Okay, that's fair. Okay, go ahead, sir.

I'd like to say something that not many people here know at all. Um, every single teacher PV has Wi-Fi on their phones and it's hidden. The technology like the technology department on the whole Pac Valley Pas Hills, they hide it. None of the kids can have it from 8:00 to 3:00. You can have it before, you can have it bea after. So reaching kids at PV is still not an issue because you can call, you can email, you can One at a time, please. One at a time, please. Go ahead. Okay, folks. Um, if you go in a class, so there's Wi-Fi services. Oh, yeah.

There's if you go in a classroom that's like on the second floor, your your regular cell phone can receive it. You got five four bars, whatever it is. Um, every single teacher in the whole building has it on their cell phones and the school refuses to give it to the kids because it's a hazard and they think it's a problem. Got it. That's it. Okay, hold on, folks. Folks, hold on. Can you give her give her the mic, uh, Rick?

Um, I'm also a student at PP and I totally agree with what he's saying. the teachers do have Wi-Fi for anybody who didn't know like he just said and I want to make a general statement to anybody that before I'm not like trying to like be defensive or anything but before you guys should have gone to this should have looked over all the ideas instead of just making a general statement that you should put a cell tower there because there's so many other like opportunities that you have to actually fix this issue so I just recommend doing that. So that's your message to the mayor and council is look at other options. Yeah. Original. Okay. All right. Can you give him back the stick? Right. Go ahead, Rick. Rick Sabino.

Um, I'll mention I live in the yellow area and I have putting a small cell in one of those other areas is not going to help us. We don't have my I could have a signal outside. It'll drop. Your call will come in. It'll drop 30 seconds later. So, um, small cells are not the answer when we have so much yellow and and lighter tan. Um, but the the other point people are talking about land property values. The tower that's right at the firehouse between the fire and ambulance, three new homes were built on Washington. They started construction after COVID, went on the market during CO, but those three houses sold significantly over asking value. They are with within they are less than 200 feet from this tower and they all my I didn't check the real estate sales records. Um, I had asked a friend to try to get the listings, but my on the street information as they sold is they each went for $50,000 over listing and they're within 200 ft of the tower and eyesight. Most of the property owners and people here are not within eyesight like they are. So,

okay. Use your common sense. Don't all these studies things where were they taken? Where were they done? and use your common sense. What happened in town? Rick, what's your message to the council since you have the microphone off? And I just My last question is for Mike. [laughter]

I just there's a question for Mike. Will there be antenna space for for the police and fire department? So I know that's on their frequencies that that end of town is a problem. Not just cell phone but on the UHF frequencies. I don't know. I don't know. I I assume yes. I don't know. Typically on on a lease we do it rent free to the town to use space for usually whip tenants when we usually call. It was mentioned last month but I don't know. So that needs to be negotiated and I'll make sure it's carried by the trade included. I know they have space on this. Can we speak yet? I'll come back.

Anyone speak yet? We're proposing 150 foot. You're also proposing the short ones of 38. Is there anything in between? So the 150 is not as much. You do 120 because I'm just The reason why I'm saying 120 Holiday Farms Stony Brook if there's trees in the way it's now out of their line of sight. At 150 they see it. At 120 they don't. It's going to be for Verizon. We we don't I don't want to go into that debate and then nothing is on the record. Yes, it's an option. Yes. Fair enough. It's out of line of sight. Fair enough.

Okay. Fair enough. Go ahead. You have mic. Y I'll just project. Okay. So, everyone here, thank you so much for coming. I know you all took so much time to think about your abuse. You're taking time away from your kids, your spouses, your parents, your animals. It means a lot to all of us. Get all of us here to show up and talk like it means a lot to us. And my sticker says wrong location. We are not It's working.

Is it? Yes. We're not saying that we don't want a cell tower. I'm on the street where I get none and I do work from home. I would love a cell tower, but I just want you to think of all the people you left at home tonight. And if they came to you and said, I could either have a house with a cell tower right here or I could have a house right next door without a cell tower. Which one are you going to choose? And with a cell tower? Really? Really? [laughter] Okay, [clears throat and cough] it just keeps

I just want you all to think about that. And if that is your choice that you choose the one with the cell, fantastic. Congratulations. You might get your wish. But if you think for even a second, maybe they have a point. Just think about it. Just think about that's all we're asking. Think about it. Think about another location. We all want service. [laughter] Thank you. Did you you didn't speak so go ahead

try try maybe building and you mentioned that tower will have a couple of miles. So maybe that existed places I would like. Okay.

It's already there. It's not going to evolve. That's fair. Thank you. Anyone else who didn't speak yet? Sir, go ahead. You can turn the mic on. Yep. Now you have to vote after this. You know that. Go ahead, sir. Yep. Go ahead. We'll hear you.

There we go. Okay. Yeah. Um I just wanted to talk about the Stony Brook School. Um the the Stony Brook Pool Club and some of the ground equipment. I know everyone's talking about the towers, but there was a map on there and it showed several buildings next to the tower. And the the tower, these uh ground buildings as they're called, are actually going to be elevated because of the flood plane.

And if you look at the tower that you have by the DPW, that's about eight or nine feet up. And then there's going to be a a building on top of that. [clears throat] And so one of the things that's not apparent on the floor plan that you show is the real effect it's going to have on the pool, especially that end of the pool there. And it's I think it will actually have a much greater impact on the the pool itself and the members there, especially the ones nearby. Uh and I think it's going to have a really detrimental effect on the pool, not just the tower looming over it, but there are if you were to take a a picture of what the existing ones look like um and put that up into some sort of rendering [clears throat] which would be great to see or an elevation or something you would really understand.

That's called the heat map and Verizon will probably come in the day of and show before and after. So show one color and they'll show you know probably red or orange then green afterwards. So I I'm assuming almost certainly say that might as well come with a heat map depicting before and after. Like I can tell you

map though there's a floor plan but if you're actually looking at it for example the DPW the building's raised up above the fences so the impact is much greater than just a rectangle on the plan and so having some sort of rendering or something that shows it's really going to look like um I don't think people really understand what the impact's going to be. So, it would be great if someone could provide a representation of what that's actually going to do in the pool. Um, and and uh to give a better idea of what the ground level is going to be like and from the town's point of view, people keep thinking of what they're going to see up in the air. But when they drive by or by the it's going to be quite a large um fenced in area with buildings up above. Um and the question is there anything to mitigate that like uh landscaping or screen?

I can tell you the planning board of of this town is one of the strict most most demanding planning board in the area. I tell you this from experience and we have the chairwoman here and I'm sure they'll demand all this from the developers from the builder. Great.

Okay. Okay. All right. So, notice Yes. I would just ask that the planning board and the town consider what it's actually going to look like because uh it's going to have much greater effect than just a rectangle. Got it. So, if you were to vote since you're sitting in the seat, would you vote yes or no? Uh I would vote to seriously consider all other alternatives or at least understand what you're going to get before you sign the lease. You sound like all the all the the current council members. [laughter] Okay, got it. You didn't speak, ma'am. Go ahead, ma'am. It's not working. It's um

Okay.

Um I was at the last um I just was under the impression that all of this other stuff was already done prior to this signing a lease. My question to the or my comment to the board is why don't we look into what is the actual cause of no self service because the high school spoken by the students um my daughter my kids have all gone through there my daughter has worked there um the teachers have service the kids do not the parents do not I've suffered like everyone else I have to set up meeting spots for my kids all of But if we're going into such a big financial uh commitment for [clears throat] so long and we don't know for sure if this is going to fix the problem, I think that it's not prudent for the town to make such an investment not knowing if what the root cause of it. If I went to a doctor and they gave me a prescription for something that didn't help me, what's the point? Then you're stuck with another problem that the medication might have caused. So why are we gung-hoing this cell tower that forgive me if you're not in my area? It's in my backyard.

So it's easy to say that, you know, the other side of town when you went through this, you moved it to the Parkway. That doesn't affect anyone's property taxes. doesn't affect anyone's anything and you still got cell service on that side of town. We're not saying we don't want cell service. We're not saying that all the homes around me, including my own, has trouble calling um anyone, but if I need a 911 call, I know I'll get 911 because I've called them and they come all the time and I don't have cell service. So, let's put this into perspective that if we're spending money and if my property taxes are going my property value is going down, I would like to know the real reason why. And if we don't know that and we're just going into building a tower that's going to stand so tall, I don't think that's prudent for the town or any any town member.

Okay. I think one of the challenge that the you know the mayor and council are facing ma'am if someone moves next to a train track then you complain about the train well that's too bad you knew there's a train track here I have another right this one is new and I think that's where the passion is coming from it's new and it'll just pop up within few days uh so that's the challenge that they're facing how to how to move forward or not so you didn't speak on go ahead If you can speak louder so we can

sure what my heart goes out I understand people's frustration I think we're in agreement on the same page and I appreciate the opportunity to talk about this I have a question for you are you aware that the FCC website under threat of perjury each cell each teleunication company reports their percentage cell coverage in the area. Are you aware of what the website currently says about cell coverage in our area for each one of the areas? They're separate listed by the individual.

Correct. And what is the percentage coverage we currently have as reported under by each company including Verizon? What is our cell coverage? Do you know? I'll let Verizon answer that. It's been shared. So, it's it's a leaded question. It was shared with everybody. It's 100% coverage, folks. Yes, it is. So the question is if Verizon is saying we have 100% coverage, I would like Verizon to explain why we don't have 100% cell service so that we can identify what the problem is before we try to assume that a cell tower will resolve our problem. Perfect question for Verizon. Absolutely. [applause] Absolutely. Anyone else who didn't speak? You didn't speak. We spoke.

Okay. One more thing for my son. not here. By the way, I love that students are here. [applause] Starling for emergency services, which apparently can happen in the middle of like the wilderness in the middle of nowhere and certainly not. We have not we have not we have not. If someone knows u the Tesla guys Can I just take uh one who didn't speak? Go ahead.

So, uh I do cyber security for a living. All I can say is Wi-Fi is a is a good option once you have a connection. So, it should be alternative for anyone that has emergency. Think of it like if Wi-Fi is down, tree is down, how you going to make a connection at this point? That's what I use. I I am relying on Wi-Fi. That's number one. uh I know a lot of people are using it but let's just say hypothetically completely you know whatever the services here completely done how you going to reach out to your kid this is one number two is uh a little bit of joke but I recently purchase a home in Hillsdale price are not going down that's all I can tell you because a lot of people are you know buying the you know property is pretty pretty high so that's all I want to say but one thing lastly um who who can give guarantee that one Verizon uh you know provide the service that my area the the the red one or the orange one whatever is going to That's the kind of that's the kind of the thing is because the last thing is a lot of people mentioned the last thing we want to find out is that okay they built this you know giant tower and then suddenly the you know uh we still have the the blind you know the points why not the current system is not working why not increase a little bit you know power to those to maybe you can help us some of the you know but all I'm saying is let's just do a side survey done and then let's see what the gaps are if the gaps are not helping that solution then we can find maybe different solutions.

Got it. Thanks. [applause] Uh, someone Oh, yes. Go ahead. Um, hi, I'm Zoe. I'm also homes. Thank you all for being here. Really appreciate it. Appreciate the opportunity. Just so you know, Zoe, this is not on the record whatsoever. This is just opinions and talking. Okay.

Thank you. Um so there are a lot of contentious aspects to this particular proposal obviously and a lot of things agree and disagree on. We all agree that coverage improvements in coverage are important for the burden. Um public safety I think we can all agree is you know it's a very important thing to ensure uh that we are you know because emergency communications [clears throat and cough] and things like that you know we've all discussed how of that you know the importance of that um but and public safety being able to reach emergency responders. I think what we're forgetting to include in our costbenefit analysis here in terms of this proposal is the fall zone that has been or the lack thereof that has been established for this particular tower. So this tower if if installed would be approximately 30 ft from a major throughway. Um I took the liberty of of printing out um instances of cell tower collapses and fires. this happens not infrequently. Um, and you know, in the spirit of being concerned about public safety, I hope that that issue would be at the forefront of these discussions.

So, that's your message to the mayor council. Look at the safety. Why has the fall zone why is why is it there? Because in most municipalities that we interface with, the fall zone is at least the height of the tower, if not one and a half times the height of the tower. So because these towers again it's for a reason. They fall, they catch fire, wind storms, ice storms, there are instances of this, you know, all across the country and the world. Um these are not just hypothetical theoretical

occurrences. They're they're actually logged and do happen. So the fact that the poll zone is basically non-existent is of serious concern. So that's that's something that I Okay, that's fair. Thank you. [applause] There was someone there. Yes, ma'am. Ma'am, go ahead.

Hi, I'm Victoria. I've been a resident for two and a half months. My husband moved out of so nearby and close to this. I just want to thank all my neighbors who have so kindly filled in on everything that's happening and hearing everyone's thoughts and concern. Um I just wanted to thank one final piece here says this location beautiful neighborhood [clears throat and cough] here having that power was on our agenda when we purchased this and plan to live here for 30 years plus have a family. Um so all these other solutions for different locations whatever all these things are I would love for that to just be reconsidered before other suppliers.

So you're surprised after two and a half months that did they did they tell you about the the air strip that we're building in the back? [laughter] Okay. Thank you. All right. Welcome to Hillsdale. Let me take you speak folks.

So they do there's only six cars and for either this this year we we will probably stop that because there only six cars and they're causing eventually. Yes. There's only six cars. There safety and they're throwing stuff and they're doing things. unsafe for students to park in the parking lot because of the

No, no, no, no. We No. So, we uh we offered we we offered the u the parking lot for the high school students. Last, you know, I think the first year were maybe 20, 30, then 10. This year is only six cars. For six cars, we have to do a lot of work to maintain and they're throwing things around and it's just not worth it for us to you for for only six cars. That's why not for the safety of the tower or anything. Okay. Yes, ma'am.

AI and I'm just wondering it's been a consideration that right there's a lot of money investing [clears throat and cough] so much. So, we're in for 30 years and I can't get out like what's what are the polic or the ways that they would evolve based on like current technology.

You someone said like n like in the 90s it was a long time ago. It's like things are different now. Well in 10 not even 10 I'd say next year five years three years things are changing [clears throat] so rapidly. How are they addressing?

So we asked the same question to Verizon and they will answer this question. So they'll be building it and paying for it. We're not paying for anything. Verizon is building. So they have to look ahead and say okay if we build it for however many years it is. U I mean that's their responsibility. They must know the future of this. So we're are going by what Verizon is doing. We asked the same question in 10 years from now the cell phones will probably change. Will this change also? So they seem to think that this will stay for a while but that's for them to answer. Yes, this their money. We'll take you and then we'll we'll come back here. Go ahead. Can you speak louder?$50.

Yes. It was always $50,

folks. duplication. I would definitely not put it on any school property concerns. There's a thousand kids that go there making concerns to thousand kids and then I'd say 100 teachers or so. Um there's clubs that take much care in the woods, environmental club. There's tennis courts up there. I think there's six of them. I don't think they want. Got it. 120 foot tower right next to where they're playing games and stuff. Got it. Thank you.

There's a football grass that they practice on. Um the field right next to isn't being used half time. Maybe look into that. Okay. You got the little drop.

Got it. Okay. Thank you, sir. And then we'll come back to the frontier. solving those problems. Okay.

Okay. Thank you, sir. Did you say Yeah. Um, sorry. I I live in the Orange area and, you know, I I don't get good service. I just had an incident in my house with my daughter that I had to call 911 and everything. It's not the first time either. So, I do believe it does work even without the proper service there. I think that's something that people are kind of overlooking. Um, and then I, you know, that's a health issue for our family, but like it's also on the other side of it. you know, people talked about there there's no information out there on EMF exposure to cell towers and but there is information on EMF exposure, so it doesn't matter where it's coming from. I think it's just something that we need to kind of like look at carefully. Um, you know, we're obviously all exposed to lights and phones all day long and oxidative stress and things stress on the body. And I think putting it, you know, in a spot where there's a tool, where there's a school, where there's elderly people, where there's like a lot of atrisisk people, it's it's worth exploring. Are there better opportunities or better places to kind of put these?

Okay. Thank you, ma'am. I'll come back to you. I just like I also live in that area and my husband and I service, had no service. We switched to AT&T. We now have No problem. So I'm wondering how is AT&T. So this is AT&T a bit more signal it seems like. But AT&T Verizon is the only one who actually responded to the bit and they want to invest in it. Verizon.

Yeah. But then we went No. No. But then we had a public bid ma'am. We had a public bid that went to everybody and only them came back and responded. Rob, I just want to be clear on something. I agree that there needs to be a solution that you know there is poor cell service in those areas. I'm opposed to the location of the tower, okay, where it's being proposed. And my message to the mayor and council is please consider other opportunities and [clears throat] other locations rather than the Stony Brook pool complex. Yeah. FAIR. [applause]

FOLKS, we have about about 10 minutes. Uh so we'll take as many questions as we can. Yes, ma'am. Can you speak louder, please? Would the council and mayor will investig

Sure. So that message is going to the mayor and council to consider. Yes. Did you have anything? Yeah. your hand up. Um, yeah, I just wanted to say, you know, that last map you showed, AT&T's covered much better. Mhm. If AT&T is getting a signal in there, wherever the tower is that AT&T is signal from, Verizon could be on that cell tower intruding signal there. That's another folks Ma'am, folks, one time, please, sir.

Sir, thank you. Okay, ma'am. I just want to say I live in the Orange area. I'm a part of Stony Brook. I've been here for eight years. I've been on AT&T. Wonderful. Okay.

I think if you go back to the map for Verizon, I sort of feel like they possibly could be taking advantage of the situation considering the fact that AT&T and T and and T-Mobile haven't responded to the bid. I think we we should do our due diligence, open our eyes a little bit and question why is Verizon one who responded to the bid and maybe there's an incentive for AT&T to maybe provide a discount for everybody else in the [clears throat] area to switch to AT&T because again I'm in the orange area and that one call

I just [applause] that mobile beyond that. Okay, Verizon's footing the bill. They're taking the chance and they're willing to fight you. No one wants to go to court. AT&T doesn't want to do this. They don't want the They don't want to be in the news.

I don't have service. I don't [clears throat] have service. I'm on contact and uh I don't have I have computers in my house and I'm doing Wi-Fi calls. So, what I'm saying is not an expert, but I do work in the industry a little bit. There is they are going to jump on. They do not [cough] the characters do not want to be in the newspaper. They do not want to have this headline. Verizon is willing to take this chance for one reason or another. Who knows why? But AT&T, T-Mobile, once that's built, they will pay Verizon a big chunk of change by onto their tower. They will be on it as well and the coverage will go up. My question would be is can we put the cursor where the tower actually is on the Verizon defense? And I know you can't answer this wide as it's supposed to, but at 150 ft my experience reallyffect [cough]

I know you [clears throat] guys don't do this for a living experience. Believe you do hire. Yes. wireless expert professionals. Yes.

That person should be able to come in and tell you, not just contract, but tell you, hey, this might not be a great idea because that area might not be the topography of this area is horrible. When you go to other towns, there's twice as many towers because they're less income, less people complain. It's the truth. There's less people show up from their councils. There's three or four times the amount of cell towers in other towns. They're not in our area. Start going a little bit south. We'll see more on businesses. We'll see more towers. The problem is we don't have the height of the the buildings to get over the trees that we're looking for to hide them and get the coverage you want and the concealment you want. So Verizon saying, "I need 150 ft to be able to hit all the [clears throat] valleys and and shoot down to hit the valleys that we're missing right now. The towers over here are hitting the tops of the mountainous areas of the town. The peaks, they're not hitting the valleys. The reason this one is 150 ft, which is high, is because of that reason. It's the topography, no other question. And there's no other build commercial in this area to really put towers on to fulfill that situation where they can highly

That's going to be for Verizon to answer also. Yep. All right, let's take a few more questions. You guys been wonderful and courteous and very respectful. I appreciate that. Very helpful to me. I'll take her then I'll come back to you. Okay, ma'am. Loud, please. I can't hear you. I'm sorry. I just wanted to quickly neighbors right across.

Okay. Okay. Noted. Yes, ma'am. Quick question. I'm watching now. When are you guys voting on to sign home or not? So, when is that? Good question. Very good question. So, Verizon is supposed to come either February 3rd or the 10th. This is Tuesday. Is it first Tuesday, February or the 2nd? We will confirm that at that meeting. They'll make a presentation to the council. The council will ask him questions. You can come. If the mayor decides to open to the public, the public can ask also questions at that meeting. After that, by resolution, uh, the council has to authorize or not the mayor to sign the lease.

It could be that day or it could be the following month. It doesn't have to be that day. [clears throat] There was a resolution that was I'm sorry to interrupt you. There was a resolution that was passed by the mayor and council either last meeting or

Thank you. that says that before they sign to have a town hall meeting after the town hall meeting they'll decide. So this is the town hall meeting. They're taking the information in and then the mayor and council decided they said well we want Verizon also to be here. They can't be here. So they're going to come to a public meeting and council meeting. So that's either the 3rd or the 10th. one of them there'll be a vote but I think in the spirit of transparency uh I'll talk to the mayor to put on the agenda one of the meetings or maybe in March and we'll let everyone know when that meeting is when they're

actually vote yes there so there'll be actually a resolution to vote Mark is that how we will have a resolution to vote right right that that will be announced so we need to close soon we have a you you never spoke for good sir. Yes, Councilman Rico. Good.

It's occurring to me that it might be better that when Verizon does come as a special meeting, [clears throat] I love that important section with the regular business of the mayor and council. Okay. Okay. Okay. You have a question? No. I just feel it's all about money. Money.

You are going to get paid for. So that's why it's more a private meeting. You're hearing us now. What we have to say. I've lived in Hillsdale since 1982. I lived at 330 Washington A from 1994 till 2003. They put that cell tower up at the fire department. I bought it back then. There wasn't a lot of people. So service was new and they wanted to put that up and I ended up, you know, come out in my backyard. There's a cell tower. I was concerned about my health back then, what it looked like, what it was going to do to my property value. So, I did write my taxes and I did get my taxes lowered. That is on record. Okay.

That up. Um, I did write Okay. So, anyway, I moved to the other side of town. I'm on East Liberty right at Okay. [clears throat] With all the respect, ma'am.

Again. So, and I hear this guy say, "Of course, people can move out from New York City and our houses will sell like that." But for people who can't keep up and moving, you are devaluing the property. I'm sure people have watched House Hunters or any kind of house show. If you have an opportunity of buying a house next to a huge cell tower or not, which one's going to sell first?

All right. Got it. Ma'am, with just we need to uh Yes. With all respect, the mayor and council's obligation is to provide services and and public safety. Money is not the driver of this. Okay. All right. If that's your opinion, that's fine. I got you. I got you. All right. I'm going to take one more question, please. I got you. I got you. Got it. We'll take one more question, please. Two questions. Go ahead, sir. And then we'll finish with Jerry. Who? What?

Yep. Where is the what? So the lease has to be signed first and then they will submit a full application to the planning board. I don't know when they will do that. That's up to up to them. Yeah. So that's what the council will consider. Yes. Okay. All right. All right, [clears throat] folks. Folks, hold on. We'll take Did you have one of You didn't speak. I'm sorry, guys. Ma'am.

Ma'am. Yes, ma'am. [clears throat]

So, what month of what year was this started this discussion? Verizon is the only one that spoke up that's proposing that they're going to be the one doing this job. Can't we go back now that we're now in the new year 2026? Go back to T-Mobile. Go back to AT&T and give them a last chance in the next 30 days to give a proposal. Hold on for one second. I'm from Riverdale. I have a lot of friends that work from home. They were having issues with Verizon. Now they have T-Mobile cell phone. They have T-Mobile connection. Wi-Fi, no issues. They could continue to work from home and this started in 2020. We're now almost six years later since the pandemic and they switched to T-Mobile and have perfect service. No issues. So all [clears throat] these people that are mentioning Verizon this, Verizon that, how is it going to definitely 100% help? It's certain that all these people pay taxes and this is important to them to know if the value of their home is going to be decreased. Are they going to be paying more in taxes? like I'm not a resident but I'm just here to support all of you because I'm again if it doesn't help and if you're stuck into a fiveyear plan there should be an opt out an opt out like that should be so critical because what if people service does not improve and they have to sell and move out of the neighborhood because of the cell phone for whatever reason there could be multiple reasons there should be an opt out clause And that's one really important thing for all these residents whether you're here or not. So I really think that's like a true value of the number one reason. If it doesn't work or an issue or people start getting sick or their value or properties go down, they should have an opt out. Okay. The number one.

Got it. So we started in 2023 and we went to public bid in 2025 and only Verizon responded. speak to try to bring more people that a lot of people on road on these like neighborhoods that are over by they had a lot of issues too but they have T-Mobile and there's no issues at all

got it so uh we need we need to close because we're on YouTube live and we have to shut down soon. You did you speak yet? Okay. I know. I know she didn't speak either. So, we'll do you you first guess

in 2023 we Yeah.

Yeah. So, I live every morning up in the morning, have coffee, make dinner, look at my bedroom, I'm gonna be staring at this godw

but what happens between 2023? You have a question? go back to the drawing. Okay. Okay. Got it. So, we we'll finish up with you, sir.

Yeah. I I just wanted to respond. I didn't I don't want to make it personal, but I'm not, you know, asking anyone to move or I want to move because I I moved here from Cliffside Park and I want to bring my family to because I heard Hillsdale is a great, you know, neighborhood and and safe and everything. So I I am not asking you know to build something that is going to you know danger the public. All I'm asking is that we are on the same page. We all want the same thing. We just want a little bit reasonable timeline and reasonable solution to this. So I'm I'm with you but I just don't want you think that I'm basically moved here from New York City and everyone is basically just got all this money and and moving here to or or have you able to move just one of them you know mention but thank you so much. Last question from Jerry and then we'll close this. Yes.

Thank you. Very good. I don't know if you would know the answer to this or not. Like I live in Hillsdale, but I was in Riverdale the other day at community center and they're building a new police department there and a humongous tower is going up there. I don't know if it's operational yet, but um when it becomes operational, then would that uh reach if it's if we're talking a two-mile area, could that be a tower that might help Hillsdale also? Could we benefit from that tower? Is that for Verizon? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. All right, folks. Thank you. as a Verizon. Verizon. Ask Verizon. We can ask Verizon. We will ask them. Yes. Folks, let me close here. Thank Thank you very very much. No one's going to hear you. Um come come. Have a good night everyone.