Council - Regular Meeting

Okay, call the meeting to order and will the coaches please come up to lead us in the pledge of allegiance, sir. an injured coach.

Gentlemen, if you would please start us off to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisibley and justice for all. This is a meeting of the Hillsdale Council on the 10th day of February 2026. Notice of the time and place of this meeting has been provided in the Bergen record as well as posted on the website on our website.

Can you hear me now? There you go. Okay. Well, I was just saying according to public law, we're posted on the uh on the website uh and a copy was also posted on the bulletin board outside of this meeting room and provided to any interested parties. Please silence all your cell phones. I always make that mistake. So then it rings while I'm here. So please wait to be recognized by the mayor during the public hearing. The public comment part of the meeting. You'll need to state your name and your town of residence. For the record, will the clerk please read the role? Mayor Shinfield here. Council member Camp here. Council member Kleti here. Council member D. Rosa here. Council member Mchan here. Council President Oso here. Council member Rubo here.

We have a quorum. Everybody who went undefeated this year, raise your hand. Awesome guys. Well, we're here to recognize what you've done. Um it's it's just phenomenal. Um, one of the coaches want to come up and sort of give us uh an idea of what happened this year 11 and0 and should address.

Go ahead. So, uh, thank you for having us here tonight. Um, these young boys, uh, put in a lot of effort. Um, practice started in mid August and the season didn't conclude until mid to late November. Um there was a lot of practices in there and the boys went undefeated 11-0 unscored upon outscoring their opponents 218 to zero. Nobody scored on you at all. [applause] WOW. Did you get any interception? A lot of interceptions.

Beat the Jets. Okay. We can beat the Jets. Good. And how many games were your playoffs? Three playoff games. Uh eight uh regular season games and undefeated. Didn't give a point in the playoffs. Not in the playoffs. Not in the regular season. Uh they came close, but goal line stands stopped. Impressive, guys. That's great. Does anybody up here want to offer their congratulations?

I'm just blown away completely about not allowing a single point all season. You guys are amazing. incredible achievement. I hope you're very proud of yourselves and I hope you can continue the hard work uh in your studies, in your school, and then bring that uh bring that discipline everywhere that uh you go in life. I just want to say thanks to the coaches, but also thanks to the parents. Um you know, you guys are the ones sitting in the cars on those cold nights during watching practices at at Memorial or rather at Beachwood. Um but uh you guys, you know, get the Gatorade and the water to the um to them and uh just the sacrifices that you do to help them achieve stuff like that is great. So, thank you to you two.

Yeah. I just want to say what a great group of listeners you guys are because to sit here and uh be so well behaved is is very impressive. Very impressive. Just want to congratulate you guys and know how tough it is to accomplish what you did this year, especially all that pressure on the back end of the season staying unscored upon and you guys did it. And I think one thing you might have left out, coach, was who they beat in the Super Bowl, which is living in this town is very satisfying. You will be wonderful teammates and friends in high school, but that rivalry at this level, it's a respectful, heated rivalry, and you guys beat who you needed to. So, great job,

guys. You realize you made history, right? That's pretty crazy. You should be so proud of yourselves. I mean, to have an undefeated season like that, you guys are very, very impressive. So, just keep it up. And thank you to the coaches for all their hard work. As the last guy to speak, who knows who Vince Lombardi is? Don't tell me he's a trophy either. [laughter] Go ahead.

He was the first coach to win the Super Bowl, right, with the Green Bay Packers. and they held their opponents to a very very low score. So when I heard the results, I'm thinking of Vince Lombardi and all the things that he taught his Packers to do and they had a tremendous defense and you guys must too. So my congratulations. There must be something in the green and yellow colors. I guess green and yellow. I also want to recognize who here was in cheer. Anybody from cheer here tonight? No. Well, they're going to get recognized as well and and and want to recognize their participation and their part that they took in all of this as well. Um, why don't you guys come on up? I would just like to say one thing. Okay. Please,

Mr. Mayor, council, really, it is greatly appreciated. We know you guys are busy to take the time to recognize these boys. To the parents, for the coaches, it is amazing. Um, boys, this is not a right. This is a privilege to be presented in front of town council. We we have the habit of making it every year and that's a great thing, but this is something to remember for the rest of your life, right? Again, it's not a right, it's a privilege. So, you have to be grateful and you have to thank the mayor and the town council because it's not only what they do for you for this, it's what they do for the town. And just like you guys work hard, they work just as hard as we do. So just remember that and just be polite and just say thank you. Thank you very much.

I will say on our behalf I will say [applause] I will say that we would rather be doing this every meeting than some of the some of the discussion that goes on up here on a daily basis, the things we discuss. This is much more beneficial and we're we're appreciative of you showing up here tonight and this is our privilege. So guys, come on up. Everybody in the back. That's good. Right here.

Right there. Can I have a cheeseburger? All right, good. Come here. Now get lost back. Quick back there. Just make sure. Here's a couple of certificates in recognition of what you've done for cheering for the players. We appreciate so great. It's just so great. Stand back here

over to the side. Jesus. [laughter]

You didn't think you were going to get away. DADDY [applause and cheering] the hall. Good to see you. Always [laughter]

Thank you. Denise, could you turn

This is actually a little painful. Yeah, I'm going to be here by so many of them. Now we cleared the house. [laughter] It's down to 63. That was a joy. That was good.

Only good part is they're going to opening up the doors now to let everybody Clear out. So that's the title of the only for the you can leave it open.

It's just the title. They're going to close it. So we will get stifled. Go with this. I hope this is your title. It really wasn't. But I'll take troublemakers. Are we still rolling? Yes. just an ED. That's what I thought. That's why I take Okay, good. Well, we really didn't take a break, but we're kind of back in, I guess. Um, that was wonderful. Those kids are great. We're going to move on to the approval of minutes. This is the close session minutes from February 3rd, 2026. Can I get a motion to approve the minutes? Motion.

Second. Second. All those in favor? I.

The minutes are approved. We're going to now go to the initial public comment section. Time limited and items only on the agenda. One topic per speaker. Would anybody like to be heard? Anything on the agenda? No. Okay. We're going to move on to the discussion. And uh we tabled something last week. We'll bring that up again. Um BA Gala, do you want to lead us off? Sure. May for the past uh almost two weeks. Well, yes, about two weeks, we've been in trying to find uh a consultant in the field of the cell phone uh cell signal coverage. So, we have one proposal that I sent to you from 360 RF and we had one more from wirelessmapping.com. They dropped out. Uh we found another uh one company called Pier 4 proposal. uh Peter Lupo and myself spoke to Verizon at length yesterday with four of their management and engineers and what it's coming down to mayor is that the consulting companies almost all of them have to work for a carrier to stay in business. There's not enough business for the municipalities and so almost all of them work for a carrier or more. uh Peter for the proposal you have in front of you uh Mr. Glenn Pearson. He's a retired veteran in the industry. He worked on the Mawa cell tower on the Ridgewood cell tower and other high-profile sites. Uh I was impressed with him. He was very knowledgeable of the town. He knew the sites. He knew Beachwood. He knew Rockman. He knew uh the Stonybrook uh area. And uh he knows where the sale uh coverage in the gap is. uh he did talk about uh the tall towers, the short towers, the backup uh battery

to the small towers and then the main concern of from him was the uh geography of Hillsdale uh and the hills and the valleys in terms of the short towers. it can be done but uh the the proposal you have in front of you uh he's going to you do the study do the drive and come up with a proposal on where and how many uh if it's not one tower how many towers um he also does do uh some consulting for Verizon we can't find anyone who doesn't work for a carrier so he uh in particular he can be the catalyst between the borrow and Verizon He will be uh working for the borrow uh the proposal to max at about $5,000 for 20 hours of work. Uh but he would be an independent catalyst that he can work for us and the solution that he will give us whether what whatever that is uh it's going to be either doable or not doable by Verizon. Verizon is going to be here on March 10. they would have at least five members of their management, their engineering, RF professional, and the planner. U Verizon told us on the phone that they're not interested in short towers just because they know they don't work for them. So that's all that's already uh you know cleared by them. [clears throat] But if there's a different technology that they can uh agree to with this uh new consultant, they'll work with us. So what I have in front of you, I have two proposals. the 360 RF and the Pier 4 that's the Glen Pearson I do need direction so does you know Mark and Peter Lup we need direction on how to proceed whether pick one of them or wait for the Verizon meeting uh I gave you my recommendation

to go with Pier 4 just because I was really impressed with his knowledge of the town and his commitment to being independent even though he is working with Verizon. Okay. Um, we're going to open up to discussion if there are people that have questions or comments that they'd like to make before we start to set a course. Yeah, Mayor. Yeah. Just one I I noticed or noted on the proposal that the suggestion was to do the um the research when there's foliage as opposed to this time of [clears throat] year which just does

in in a you know from a layman's point of view I think that does kind of make sense because that would probably block signals. That's how I interpret it. not to kick the can, but I would hate to pay for research done now for it not to be valid during, you know, half of of the year. Um, so I I'm I'm inclined to go with the recommendation of VA, but the timing I'm questioning. Can I add one more thing, Mayor? I'm sorry.

So, so Verizon is speaking to Verizon again uh this afternoon. uh they were looking to bring it from 155 foot high to 120 foot high uh single tower. Um they they also said that they are going to be doing their own study after they're awarded the bid. So they still there's still an a chance there that they they may come up with a different solution. uh they don't know anything about uh the cell coverage once the Rivervvil Tower goes uh online until that goes online uh and when they do the study that will also tell them. They did also mention the uh the coverage on the trees may affect uh the results.

Well, there's some things I'd like to to to touch on here. Um, we have two towers here that are not 150 foot towers at the fire department and at the DPW. Well, why do we have two so close to each other? It's because we put them at 120 ft, which means that we limited the number of carriers that can be on each tower. So if we do 120 foot tower, we are basically saying we're giving it to one entity because the second, let's say we give it to to Verizon at 120, when T-Mobile comes up, they're not going to get coverage at 110. So we have to give them the ability to go higher or what we're doing is basically creating a monopoly on the east side of town that only Verizon can take advantage of. So we have to be cognizant of that. I'm not taking the position either way when we're the other, but we have to be aware of it. And if Verizon comes in and says, "Okay, I'll put the tower here." We could be back here next year and T-Mobile or somebody else, AT&T says, "Hey, wait a second. We didn't we can't go on their tower because it's too low. We want another tower and then we're at this again." So, just be aware of that. Anthony, as far as what you um commented on about the leaves, I I understand that. Um, I spoke to a project engineer today about among those other things and also about Rivervale. They have not done the study that we're proposing yet. And the reason they haven't is they're going to do it. They've actually retain somebody, but they don't do that. They don't need that to determine whether or not there's signal needed. They need that for planning boards and to officially have those readings. what they do on a quarterly basis and that would be if you're doing it every quarter, then you're going to hit the times when there leaves on the trees and when they're not leaves on the trees and hit all seasons. And they they go by and they they're only checking for themselves, but you have to assume that by placement of the

towers that if they're suffering in an area, everybody is suffering in an area, right? [snorts] So they're saying that they know the reason that they were eager to do this is because they already know because they go by on a quarterly basis to know that the coverage is lacking. So they don't need the study we're going to do. The study we're going to do is for our own edification to make sure we're doing the right thing and we're we're going about it in the right perspective. But as far as a need goes, they can already determine that because of their quarterly studies. Verizon study.

Verizon well Verizon internally. The reason that they jumped on the prospect of doing this is because they have been they they do this across the country on a quarterly basis and they have found a lack of service. I mean even where you live, you know, you don't have cells. Yeah. Right. So a couple things. One is I would rather hear from another source than just Verizon, you know, another opinion. And also [clears throat] we don't know what Riverville's antenna once it's online and if we wait for that that I don't know what the timing is but if that's online in the spring when the leaves are on the trees does that also

so would it go to say that if Verizon was um Verizon want is has the spot in the tower in Riverdale and if they wanted to build in Hillsdale they already if they're doing quarterly studies they're already aware of the the lack of service and they wouldn't pay to put uh for two spots and two towers nearby. Yeah, that makes sense. But I thought the BA said we don't know or they don't know what the Riverville once it goes online. They don't know if the signal will reach here, right? So, it's not online yet. So, I mean, I would think they would know, but Chris, do we know?

Well, to Chris's point, and I put I put this to the person I spoke to today, special projects engineer. He said exactly that. What he said was, "We know we're over there. We know the distance is necessitates to have another tower over here to to get the full service and that they wouldn't be bidding if they even thought that there was an option that they were going to be able to get coverage there to basically hit to the other side of the high school. Yeah. But again, that's Verizon doing that, not somebody more independent. And also I if we're going to do a study to see what the reach is then don't we want the the real reach not just mathematically wouldn't we want that rear veil cell tower online

in a perfect world I suppose you would um we have them coming in in March we want the information beforehand and I and I suppose we can pose that question what is lost by doing a study in February as opposed to in April because ap we've got February this potential study we've got March 10th where Verizon is coming and then you know when when leaves are blooming in April what do we lose by that so I I think that that's a valid question to ask but as far as the need for the tower Verizon has identified that they that they don't think that just the tower of river alone will do it

um as I said there these These are this is going to cost them $300,000 probably more to build this thing. Um I don't have the exact numbers and I don't think that you cavalerely no matter how big your company is say we're just going to spend $300,000 to do it. They have the knowledge that we aren't getting service. You know we're not having service. Anybody who lives on the east side of town can tell you that service is best is spotty at best. how you how you actually end up with it, whether or not you say we need these mini towers and we need 40 foot towers every football field length and will we do that? I guess that's open to interpretation and and if and if a consultant comes out and says we should do that or it's it should be an option. Verizon could come back and say we'll do it or we or they may say it's not cost effective to do it then we're left with a different decision.

Okay. So, are we kind of on the same are we saying the same thing or? Well, kind of. I I just I I I'm not in favor of kicking the can down the road from the perspective of in an ideal circumstance, you would say we would do it when the leaves are up there. So, right now, so that would only interfere with it, right? It would only make it worse. So, if we were to do the study now with the caveat to ask what kind of impact would we what kind of negative impact would we have? It keeps us on schedule and that basically is the best it's the best opportunity for it to be good signal then because there wouldn't be nothing in blocking.

Sorry to interrupt mayor but uh I was I was just thinking about this. So back to the quarterly studies that Verizon does.

Yeah. um we we get our independent um vendor consultant um even if it happens with with with without the tree without the full foliage of the trees if they're doing studies uh quarterly I imagine you get a directionally consistent analysis because the whole point of getting the independent is essentially a validation of Verizon's findings like is are they is what they're saying about the coverage in our area the options for the site like all that stuff is it consistent with that? So if you're if they're sampling quarterly, we can ask them does does this report for like a Q1 testing reflect what you directionally see at this time of year here and then you can extrapolate that from there.

I think councilman maybe there's some disconnect. I think when we hire if we hire this consultant we've given the direction. Yes, we know there's cell gaps. We know because we can't use the phone over there, right?

We don't need the study for it. What we need is the solution. How can we bring in the cell coverage to this area, the east side of town, what what options are there? So, we know there's 120 foot tower solution. What other options are there? All the options, even you know, Mr. Starlink, maybe there's an an easier or maybe there's some new technology. But to do a study to tell us where the gaps are, Verizon knows that. We can find out that because there there is an app that Peter Lup has that we can send out to the residents and they would drive around and we would get that information from their phones.

There's also they also subscribe to a company called UKLA O K L A that um gives you the broadcast. Everybody provides their information. [clears throat] All the carriers provide. That's the easy part. That's the easy part, right? So, so we can get that aware of that, right? So, the question is what the solution is, right? I think that's where we need someone with with some knowledge of the industry to tell us what the solutions are.

I have a couple questions. Um would hope that somebody would help me reconcile a couple things here. Um with regards to uh the various options that would be available to us and viable. uh if the consultant comes back and says well you have a hybrid solution that could be incorporated which would be a combination of the Verizon power river and and a few small cells sprinkled uh in various gap areas that were identified right but Verizon doesn't have an appetite for that as the mayor or I think it had said whether it's cost prohibitive

they're not going to generate enough revenue they don't want to sink the 500,000 or $300,000 into it what happens there, right? Like if we know that maybe that's a better business decision for the town, but there's not a provider that's willing to actually provide that solution, then it's up to the council to decide what they want to do. That's why you're here. That's why you're elected. You have to decide whether or not you say um Verizon isn't willing to do it. don't we may want to decide we want to put it on our RFQ specifically based upon the findings or we could say we're going to put this down the road because this council doesn't agree with what Verizon is willing to do Verizon if we we're we're at that point changing the RFQ

right yeah but I would just like like to challenge Verizon and this is probably more for when they come in right the different solutions that are available to us why wouldn't they want to incorporate something else that is a better option you can ask that question in theory to them. [clears throat] What happens if we think that there's a solution in March? Well, we should have we should have I'm sorry, not we should have the consultants uh paper provided to us by then, right? We would. Right. I can decide tonight. If we decide now, we'll have plenty of time to get that before the March 10th.

Right. And I and I'm inclined to go with the BA's recommendation on that. Um but again, you know, Verizon's appetite and why or why not, I don't want to get into the minds of, you know, Verizon we don't have and what they do business and how they do business and we don't have to uh the the other uh thing I'd like to add is that one of the concerns of mine with regards to the pool being the location and with regards to alternate sites is that happens to be a a piece of land that the bureau does own right and this year would be engag this lease would be engaged into for about 25 years 25 to 30 years correct um the issue 20 25 30 years it is. I think there's 30 years,

right? 25. So that would basically be create creating like an eastment or encumbering that land for 30 years as we do with the tower that was out here and the tower over there. Understood. Understood. And we're renegotiating to get them to do it longer. Right. And that and that land serves as a pool utility today. And I hope that it stays a pool utility into perpetuity. Right. But things do happen and that land is a valuable asset to the barrel. I mean, I think it would also reduce flexibility of the town uh and what they do with that land 5, 10, 15 years out. If Verizon basically has a landlock on 100,000 square feet where the space 100,000 Well, I think it's 100 by 100 that they have your mark.

It's 200 feet. It's only 200. But yeah, because if you get a developer coming in here, they're going to be a little bit Well, first of all, I mean, you're talking about theoretically what happens. I mean, you know, the the fire department moves. I mean, we were talking last year. We were talking about what we were going to do because the DPW constantly flooded and we were looking for alternative sites. That tower was still going to be there. We're going to deal with we deal with reality as it is.

Um I I would hate to think that we're going to miss out an opportunity for something that may happen 20 years down the road, right, when we don't we we don't know. And if that's the case, then we really shouldn't be locking us into contracts for anything that involves public land, right? Because I mean, you know, if we made the decision to put it in Beachwood, we would, you know, aside from having environmental concerns with it, we can already see you got that that tower look on your face with it. [clears throat] But we would we would be in that same situation. Whatever we're going to put this, you face the possibility that land changes, that what was one piece of property is going to be used as something else somewhere down the road. But

we [clears throat] can't let that be our be an inertia unless it's something that's you know patently dangerous whatever understood the small cells do do you know get housed in the public right away right so so that you have less risk so but but the point is we don't know what that answer is yet so whether or not the consultant will come back and say we should do small cells or they could come back and say it's the monopol there could be something else um you know at least to give the background and then we're we're still going to be in a position every question that you're asking now to ask Verizon on March 10th. Right. So, I don't have a problem with that.

And again, if if the consultants come back and provide the recommendation that from a public safety standpoint that this has to go here, right? It is what it is, right? And I'm fine with that. right with regards to everything else that we discussed and all the other variables I like to get those answers you know reasonably you know completed uh so that we have that information we can make the best decision right um I guess one last question for the VA when upon completion of this stud what do you foresee the end product be a list of options pluses or minuses or do you see I certainly wouldn't want to hold him to one recommendation and say you know but you guys do is right.

Um I'm thinking this will be a port solution. [clears throat] Uh one is the easiest, one is not the easiest and one in between. Maybe there's a hybrid. Uh maybe like I said there's a new technology that we uh we don't know. They they may have some other ideas. Yeah. Because I I would like to plan for 5G. 5G will be a conversation in the next few years. And from understood, but macro terrorists have a problem with 5G. Okay. But but the issue is also this which is that um you know if they want to build a monopole and people say well the technology is going to change. Yeah. Well that's where the capacity issues along that

right. Well that's why if you're going to build in Riverale maybe they find it certainly can question about it. Um, but from a business standpoint, it's incumbent upon the potential people doing this tower to make the determination whether or not they want to do a tower as opposed to I mean, they're making a large investment in it and maybe they come back to us in 10 years and say, you know, the monopole is great for now or it was, but there's this other new technology now and we want to enter into a discussion about what we want to change Yeah,

I mean, you know, we went from from vinyl records to CDs and, you know, kept getting shorter and shorter. We went to the to the to the iPod and went from the iPod to ones and zeros and now we just download on Spotify all in the course of 20 years. So, yes. I mean, is it possible that that could happen? I suppose it's possible, but it's not we don't we're not we're not the ones that have to be the futurists, right? Okay. That's my own feel. We've heard from this side. Does this side have comments and questions? Well, or feelings. Feelings. Tell me your deal. [laughter] Tell me your feelings. John, why don't you take it way back? We'll get the couch out.

Mr. Mayor, I'll give you I'll give you feelings. Um I I read we read just now the email that our administrator sent to us about his meeting with I guess it was Lupo and Mr. Mr. Uh, who was it? Mr. uh Pearson. Um I'm frankly not impressed with the scope of Mr. Pearson's proposal. I don't think it's as full as the one that 360 RF um is proposing. Um I noticed that Mr. Pearson talks about in his scope he'll reach out to a cellular service provider. A cellular service provider. That's Verizon. I'm pretty sure

he works for Verizon. He doesn't work for Verizon. He consults for Verizon. There's a complete difference. Okay. Yes. He's not an employee of Verizon, but he's been hired by Verizon as they all have. And as the BA said to us, it's very difficult to find somebody who hasn't worked for any of those, right companies.

Um, so he's going to discuss their needs and goals for enhancing cellular coverage in the burrow. I'm not so sure I care necessarily about Verizon's needs and goals. I want to hear an independent review. Um, he's going to review possible solutions for resolving the cellular service concerns with the burrow. Okay. But yet 360 gets nails it. I think it nails the nail on the head a little better. It says um, you know, they're going to be looking at a survey. They're going to be performing it to analyze if the proposed tower of the Hillsdale Municipal Pool Grounds is necessary and viable. and that reasonable alternate options are not satisfactory. That's their that's their uh presumptive starting [clears throat] point. Uh and then he goes through his scope. Um I just found it to be a little more inclusive, a little more comforting. Um I think Mr. D. Roza's concern about conducting this later is a good one. Um I don't know why we feel we have to rush down the path uh immediately. Um you know we we're all trying to become mini experts in RF here and none of us are proving that we have mastered this.

Nor should we there's nobody nobody on this day is an RF engineer on any of their credentials. I agree. Um nor should we strive to do it. Um, which is why independence I think is is to be sought as much as possible here. Um, fact that Verizon did not show up at the town hall meeting bothers me. Um, they had been had to be pushed to come to to the March 10th meeting. Uh, I'm suspicious about them. And I'm I was a shareholder in Verizon until recently. [laughter] So, I'll be very sad to know that you've sold your stock. Uh, I'm I'm not feeling that divested. the the feelings aren't that negative.

Money, John, this guy down here wants to put it in silver. Where are you putting your money? [laughter] No.

So, I mean that that's that's how I'm coming out on this. I'm, you know, certainly, you know, there's a lot of back and forth by by people on the day about, you know, different levels of of questions. I I think from for me seeing what the Riverdale Tower is going to do for us is a key aspect of of why I would want to, you know, agree with Councilman D. Roza and just wait uh a little further. Uh now, I thought I heard you say, Mr. Mayor, that Riverale was conducting or intended to conduct a survey like what we're thinking of or No. Did I miss Did I miss

They're not They're not This is for They They had started to engage this process when they were going to swap some land um and do a tower, but they're keeping the the one tower that they have. There was, believe it or not, there was public outcry about where they were going to place a tower, which you're going to get from any area. [clears throat] There's not there's no perfect place to do it. We're limited and we have to consider our options because we're not putting it in anyone's backyard. So, we're really kind of limited to municipal land that that offers us this option. Well, I've expressed my feelings to Thank [laughter] you for your feelings, Councilwoman.

Yeah. Just real quick, I think we can all agree that none of us here on the day are those we're not engineers. We're not public health scientists. We're not, you know, telecommunication experts. We could chat GPT till our, you know, forever uh and maybe get those answers that we're looking for. But I really think that um I do support moving forward with this proposal from Pier 4. Um it does address some of the concerns that were raised at least last week and some of the conversations we've had about some alternatives and coverage. So I do support it. I do think it's independent. Um and I also think it's reasonably priced. So I'm for this. [clears throat]

Okay. Council Kleti is the last person to weigh in and you've been sitting here taking notes. Um do you have an opinion one way or the other or comment questions?

Uh yeah. My first question is starting off with uh because on the surface yes I agree 360's quote is much more comprehensive um and they make a stronger push to get to independent data versus Pier 4s which focuses on drive test data that they obtain from code and from the quote from the cell cellular service provider and also agree that they only reference one carrier or one provider rather than multiple and I think uh first I'd like to say I think whatever readings we get whatever studies are done have to be done for all carriers in the area not just Verizon because if we don't understand why Verizon may have a gap and the other carriers don't right it's important to understand that because there may be and again layman's terms there may be infrastructure that Verizon could tap into I don't know but if we don't do the study on all the providers and we just do Verizon I think we're limiting uh the potential solutions that we have to put in front of A question I had was 360 verse um Pier 4. I understand why you're supporting P4, but can you just explain to us why 360 is different or what you you think isn't sufficient enough on 360s?

I think Mr. Pearson knowledge of the town and very specific on the streets, uh the topography, uh the [clears throat] parks and the trees, uh the locations. uh he may have worked here in the past, you know, doing this. Uh he knew exactly where the gaps are and I think he's going to take it very genuinely with with the carriers uh and be as independent as he can. All right. So it's basically I feel more comfortable with him from a from his his hisology his local knowledge of of the geography but from a from a methods perspective 360 verse that is there any opinion on that

it's going to be the same the one that pulled out by the way wirelessmapping.com when I called him he was on Fifth Avenue doing a very similar study

in one section of Fifth Avenue there was a coverage gap for some and they're doing study there and he sent me a picture of the equipment. They look like uh he's landing a spaceship. Uh and he said this is what I'm doing right now. So these folks are linemen. They go out there and they do the job. They tell you where the gaps are and from their knowledge here's what the solutions are. And from his stand that's why he actually pulled out if I can do it for Fifth Avenue I I can't do this for Hillsdale. You guys are just asking too many questions of me that I can't answer until I do a study. Um so in terms of where uh of who u I'm I'm 100% behind I'm sure uh 360 can do the same but in terms of what we will ask him you to do I think the delivery and the output from him I'd feel much more comfortable with

Mr. 3A is is there any way when in that first bullet you with the burough to review cellular coverage concerns the specific locations of the concerns is there any way that one or two council members can sit on that you on that to do it I'm sorry in that initial discussion that you have with the burrow with regards to the concerns locations and the considerations resolving why this this is this is now my job understood give it to me let me handle it if I do a bad job fire we we We have to rely on experts. That's why they're here, right? We hire experts for a reason. We have to have faith and trust. We're paying them. So, we have to just make sure like we have to just let them do their jobs.

Understood. I just don't want to end up with a situation where we have one option provided and that's monopole at the there's option. We're going to have a study here and then it sounds like doing another. So, now we're going to have two studies, right? So, isn't that good? It's good. Yeah. But I just want to prevent something. We'll have multiple options. We'll have to have options. We just need to get there. We need to get to that point. We have options. [clears throat] Typically for for the price of this you study, it's under my authority to just you do it. But because this is such a high profile, we are all involved.

We're doing this in public. Normally because of the bid threshold, we could have just awarded No. for for the $5,000 for the study. Uh I mean we do studies all the time and you don't know half of them when we do studies for for outside for the fields for the DPWs for deer. There's a lot going on but this is you such high profile. I think we spend a lot of time on this for for good reasons. But I'm confident the solutions will get back and if I wasn't confident I would not put my name on it. Okay. Let me ask you a question Mike. You you placed a lot of emphasis on the fact that Mr. Pearson knew the area. How did he know the area? How did he know?

Yeah. What did he go into that? Was he a resident or did he do studies here before? I think he worked here previously with the carrier. Which carrier? I don't know. I didn't ask him. But he knew the streets. He was very specific on the streets and where where the bad coverage is. Okay. All right. I mean, I don't necessarily view view that as a strong positive because anyone you any professional that you uh hire is going to come in and look at the area. They're going to do the same assessment, you know. So, I mean, that's to me that's not a selling point. So, what I'm left with is a scope that is subpar and a scope that I think hits the the nail on the head.

That is your opinion. Okay, that's that's fine. But we're at the point now to decide. Um does do people want to in general can we first that we want to move forward with a study at this point? Yes. Can we get consensus on that? Yes or no? [clears throat] So why can we get I'm not so I mean how did you how did you and Councilman De Roza you went back and forth. I thought did you agree to move ahead? It's not my decision to move ahead or not. I'm asking that now. Do people want to move ahead? That's what I'm asking. My view is I would wait in the I didn't ask for your individual thing yet. I want to ask as a group, do we want to move forward? No, because this isn't one person, whatever. We'll do it as a show of hands. Who wants to move forward with doing this study now?

One, two, just two people want to move forward with the study.

So, I I'm I'm concerned about further kicking the can and looking for the perfect situation here because it seems like we're we are trying to become it's being repeated over and over again. It's almost a circular thing like we're trying to become experts and we're going to keep this thing going. This this was discussed last June uh when it first came up. So there's plenty of research to do that there. You know, I was a resident at the time but I was fully aware of what was going on and I knew where [laughter] well yes. [gasps] Oh by the way you guys and so like it this is something and the the proposal itself it's been there's been studies. This is multiple years uh in the in the making and the community has a real need here. like we've talked to our emergency services, our police department, uh fire department, like residents, uh all these people are saying that there's a need and I would hate for us to continue delaying this and not having a study done before we meet with Verizon on March 10th so that we have some other um data point that we can use to to ask intelligent questions. We we need to move this forward and we need you know the residents I I don't want anything to happen god forbid at the high school where police need to run in and their the radios go dead. So we have we have we have people that are how many people are opposed to doing it and we've done we've done this enough time

but I'd like to wait excuse me can I have I have the floor um for councilman your comments about uh the police and how they are not able to effectively you know provide communication in high school that was refuted by the attorney Mr. Berg who talked about that can that is a problem between the school and the police that will not be solved by having a self that was the the attorney Berg is obviously advocate figure for the for the opposition for this tower though pro [snorts] probably but he's also very experienced and has represented

Should we bring up his letter that he he wrote the the letter that he wrote is filled with inflammatory language and unprofessionalism his his letter 14 pages or whatever was actually filled I thought with a lot of good questions. Um so and biased studies and uh cherrypicking of data and presenting one side. Well, he he raised some important points and I I've not heard in years being here that the police have not been able to communicate in the school. That's that's between the school and the police. And I always understood that they had that problem solved a few years ago. It's now unless you know different from what I've heard.

So So if a child gets hit by a car in Ruffman and you can't call 911 is that what's the difference? No, this is I'm talking about but in general like you know their the police use the police have their own means of communication. If a child is hit in Ruckid, the police are going to call. But what who's going to call 911 when the child's in the street when your phone doesn't work? If the well I was just talking about the police, right?

One of the things that we need to determine is how we can improve that coverage outside of the school. The school itself, the school administration turns off the ability for Wi-Fi in the school. And it's true that there is a gap in the area outside of the school and that's why we're trying to see do small cell towers can they address it or do we have to rely on them on a pole. So, I mean, you're talking about a different thing than Councilman Camp.

I I I think if if that's really what's the hangup, I I can with withdraw that comment. Uh just in general, the the main point being the main point being is that I I based off all the conversations I had residents last year while I was outside campaigning, like the the safety concerns and the real life experiences that people have, the scary experiences I've had, some of them spoke at the town hall meeting. like I do not want to have that on our heads if something for god forbid happens. Right. But since we're on the verge of of discovery now, right? Right. And it's going to take place in 2026 and not necessarily

if if if this board does not want to go forward with a study, what are the chances that we're going to No, the I I heard that it's not that the fact that the board doesn't want to go ahead with the study. is now the question is do they want to go ahead with the study right now or wait till the folks that's what I'm asking this question right but it will be finished in 2026 and we will have an answer to which way we're going to go no no not if we don't vote to do a study then we're not going to get one Verizon's not going to going to do their own study if we're not if we're not moving forward

I thought your question to the council was who's in favor of going ahead now and Councilman Camp and I think councilwoman Maza Chong said they wanted to go ahead I didn't even get a chance to finish that and our school was opposed. For all I know, two people are going to oppose are going to abstain. I don't know. We didn't get that far because people just started talking over it. Well, let me then just hopefully we will get this all resolved in the year 2026. We will have a study and perhaps hopefully it'll be when the leaves are out and we get a more accurate assessment of where those RF waves are going to go and how how extensive the coverage could be. Could I say say something, please? Um, go ahead.

I I'm inclined to to go forward with the study because I'd like something in hand before Verizon comes on March 10th. Um, I I just want you to clarify, you did have an exchange with Anthony about the foliage and about I'm just confused as to where you guys net it out with with regards to that. I mean,

my personal opinion, look, I don't I don't vote on this, right? And I'm just trying to get a sense of where we are with it. My personal opinion is they've come in I I was informed today they do a quarterly study which in two or three of the quarters there's going to be foliage up there. They've determined that they have a need which is why site unseen having not done a study they know there are gaps that they want to do this. So, I'm less concerned with it. And actually, the people that opposed it should want to do a study now because this is the ideal situation without leaves on the trees. They would find out that the service is wonderful, which which people who live in the area knows that that's not the case. But regardless of that, this is actually the optimum time for anybody that opposes the tower to do a study as opposed to waiting three months till after Verizon has been here and then start chasing our tails again. That's my opinion. So that's why we have

and and to Melissa's point, you know, I trust the VA to get this done independently and provide the options that we need uh to evaluate and I'd like that study before Verizon gets

Okay. So So again, I I I'd like to kind of move this forward here. We've had this debate now for over half an hour. Um and I'd like to see are we inclined to do a study or not now? And it would be for now and then we can determine which of the two we want to go with. So again, let's start again. Just tackle this this one question. Who is in favor with with a show of hands in favor of moving forward with the study at this time? One, two, three. Who are opposed? Outright opposed? One, two. Opposed with a caveat, though. It's it's just a timing thing. Okay. Yeah. Well, exactly. That's the way I feel.

Council, [clears throat] do you have a decision one way or another how you feel? So looking practically uh what I am a little what I'm struggling with on this particular question that you're asking right now is is the timing of things right and and if I'm RF if I'm fitting out a you know a distribution center for RF you know I know what all my challenges are what my headwinds are I know if the place is fully stocked it's going to the RF is going to be a lot different than when there's no inventory in the building right so when you're not taking into account the leaves when you're not taking into account the fact that Riverville is going to have a tower that's going to go up and be activated, you're leaving out two very critical variables.

Well, that's what I'm thinking through right now is does it make sense to do the study now, you know, and potentially there still be doubt in the study by by, you know, by by the mayor and council when it's done. And if we if if we can get to the point where we say, "No, you know, we're going to have to trust this no matter what." Maybe we engage them to enlighten us in their response as to how it could potentially be impacted by a baby. I don't know. I'm trying to get to a po point where it makes sense to move forward now and get this done. Right. I'm just there's got to be a right way to do that. All right. So, right now we're at 3 to2. You you you know, you're elected to make a decision one way. I'm not trying to minimize it. You say you

thought I know. And will the study though be more than just Verizon? Are we going to cover the other carriers? I'm not going to ask him to I think that's perfectly reasonable to say. I should have not uh

to make sure that it is a a full spectrum analysis, not just of of cell data, but also don't forget this is also going to be doing things like monitoring heart, you know, uh insulin pumps, uh heart monitors. So, it's not just the spectrum at 720 hertz. That's your data. It's going to be a much more comprehensive spectrum analysis and I think that that's perfectly reasonable. Do you want to we just one thing we just need a vote from the councilman one way or the other?

Well, he's thinking. Can I ask the BA a question? Um, didn't Mr. Pearson recommend waiting? He said it's more viable when when the trees are full of tree of the Here's your email. He advised against conducting any studies in the winter recommending we wait until full leaf coverage for accurate results. That's that's the expert that you put your trust in and he's advising that we wait. [snorts] My comments were to use him not I didn't say when. I know what your comments were.

I feel like this is Who Wants to be a Millionaire? [laughter] Dad loves it right now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and this is to, you know, it's it's this constant back and forth on new information, old information, contradicting information where It would be nice to have something for Verizon meeting, right? I mean,

it would be nice, but the question is is how do you truly say you could have a combination of the Riverdale Tower being live plus small cell services if you haven't taken into if you're not taking that into account, the Rivervvil Tower and foliage, if you will. So I don't know how you get comfortable with that. In that particular scenario, what'll happen is that they'll recommend less small cells because they'll have less gaps and coverage, right? Uh so so you have to be proactive about it macro or you're getting great reception right now everywhere you are and they say well there is no need for or anything

for for you know these smaller towers right you could just or anything should just be a model right that's what I'm saying is well they have to tell us and and then we have a professional here that we're about to engage to John's point that recommended not doing how do you yeah how do you that's critical and what what precludes us from going saying we're not experts, but then our expert that we're going to hire gives us the recommendation and we're going to ignore it. A perfect world, it would be nice to have a report when Verizon gets here, but there's nothing that precludes us from once we have the report going back to Verizon after they've spoken with us and asking more questions. Yep, that that option exists.

What's the Is there any risk that Verizon walks away from this whole process? Like if if it I don't work for them. what their business what their business right yeah I guess I'm just asking that up in the air yeah I don't know I mean for for the price of the study if I was you to do this I do one and do one in the summer also for $10,000 um we we have some old capital uh that we can cancel mean the money we can find we could do two studies if you want something before March 10th or or not then we just wait until the summer before we start getting down that road about what I'm trying to help. I'm going to make decision. I get it.

Yeah. I I don't want to I don't want to start making a promise to say we're going to do it now and then we're going to do it again and we keep kicking the can down the road on this thing. Um so, Councilman Klet, what would you like to do? [snorts]

If you want to abstain, you can abstain. It's it's it's I I I can't I can't vote for a professional to hire him and then go against [clears throat] his first recommendation to us to wait. So, I'm a I'm in I'm in support of improving I want to be very clear. I'm in I'm in support of finding a solution here, but doing comprehensive due diligence that gets us to the most feasible and best solution there is. Right. And so I I would vote to delay or defer. So it's three to three at this point. It's four to two.

Three to three. We have Camp Oso and Majan [clears throat] in favor. RO Kleti and D. Rosa as opposed to moving forward right now. That's accurate, right? If I'm casting the deciding vote, we're going to move forward. Okay. Okay. So, at this point then the question is which one of the vendors do we want to use? So, we have a recommendation from the BA to go with this new one. Um, and so we've also heard from uh various people, Councilman Rico, who's in favor of RF360. It's up to you guys to decide which way you want to go with a provider for a service.

Um, on the other. Yeah, let's get a motion on one of the other. Um, let's [clears throat] do the one that the BA recommended first. Could you tell us again the name of the company? Pier 4. Pier 4. Okay. So, uh, those in favor of using Pier 4, I mayor, just really quick, whether or not I'm going to be in favor of Pier 4 is if they're going to do look at multiple carriers. Multip multiple carriers. Yeah. And in their proposed solutions, they identify multiple solutions that are obviously feasible, right? But not based on what Verizon wants and doesn't want. what is a true viable solution that could be presented to Verizon for consideration.

Okay. So, I'm I'm sorry to possibly muddy this up again, but the BA mentioned we could find money to do two studies with one group. Would it make sense to do one study with with the two groups? I I don't I I don't want to start going down that road yet. I mean, let's do one Let's do one first. We may have the information from the first one and then by the March 10th we'll confirm some of it. All right.

Don't see the need to put up put up obstacles before we know we've got them. That's my only concern. I we may be in a position where we say what what came back to us is not sufficient. It may come back to us and say in the ideal conditions we recognize there is this gap and in which case you know we're in a different position than that. But we have we have pier four now first um offer it up um and that's the BA's recommendation. Show of hands. Who's in favor of of using that of those people? One two three four [clears throat] for Can I just touch on four real quick? Mike, is there any way you can go back to them

and just say they can do they could revisit the coverage gaps when when you know from a seasonality? That's a second that's a second plan at that point. Yeah. But they may come back with their recommendation that they should go back, right? Because if he is advising to delay, he may be able to do the majority of the of the work now and then add to it later. You may. Okay. So, right now we have four councilman Klet. Yes. Four. Okay. And those in favor of opposed to Pier four.

Okay. We have one opposed. So, we're going to move forward with the study. We're going to move forward with the recommendation of the BA. Um, thank you all for the consideration. I'm sorry that it's, you know, it took so long to do. Um, but as my old boss in Congress used to say, the two things you don't want to see being made are law and sausage. Um, so we are moving on. It's time for committee reports. Let's start at the far end. Councilman Ruka.

Thank you, Mayor. Um the uh seniors the 50 plus meeting will be held at Cornerstone at 11:30 this week on Thursday and uh the finance committee met on May I'm sorry May February 6 uh to get an update from the BA and the CFO on the 2026 budget. What we seem to be looking at is a um minimum increase of approximately five and a half percent in the local residential property taxes for the municipal portion of the budget that includes the library. But there are a number of variables that remain unknown and um those are expected to be clarified before the March 10th meeting which is when the um BA and the may and the CFO will be presenting for uh introduction a budget for the mayor and council's approval. We also discussed the rising health insurance premium situation that poses a long-term uh threat uh to our financial well-being. The committee encouraged the BA and the CFO to explore options and and they are in fact doing that and and have started to do that already. That's all.

Have we been in touch with with the school? The school has gone a different route um in in uh in health insurance. Um and they're they're they're going to be increased, but we were looking at potentially a 34% increase something in there. They were telling me that they're in the low 20s. I can't believe it's saying that we should jump on a 20% increase, but comparatively speaking, have we have we has anybody spoken with uh the BOE? I I have not. It may make sense to at least explore that. Are they in the low 20s total cost increase or just on the employee portion

that I I you know I'm I'm not digging into the details of it. They just said that they realized they could figure out saving about 14%. Is that the high school or local? Robert Lombardi local the local BOE councilwoman Machan I have nothing to report Councilman Kleti

super quick uh in between meetings right now but planning [clears throat] board the next meeting is February 12th just some notable items that are on agenda uh the mayor and council referral procedures for the fair share housing ordinances uh and a discussion on their annual report. Uh the only update on the fire department right now is that we still do not have an update on the grant that we applied for. hopefully soon. Thank you. Okay, Council President Oso. Yes. So, I took my council uh report to the next level and I asked uh a couple members of the environmental commission to uh update it [clears throat] public comment. Right. They're going to update your public. Okay. So, um other than that, nothing. Okay. Council D. Rosa.

Uh had a one-on-one meeting with the interim superintendent of the um regional board of education. Uh we talked about some Hillsdale ccentric topics. Uh he had and I filled in the VA. Um he requested perhaps not having to have voting at the high school. I expressed to him that I know we've been there before and it's a parking issue. It's a large enough venue issue. I don't know that we have any other Did he have an alternative or he just was saying I'm opposed to it? Yeah, he it wasn't a a hard you know. No, he was just It would be nice to I I think you should bring Denise with you who is who runs our elections. Yeah, I I we've had about that before. I think we researched this. Yeah. Year or two ago. They don't have the option.

No, I know they don't. But I understand it. It's a nice wish. I gave him the opportunity [clears throat] to bend to air. That's very nice of you.

Right. Uh and the local board of education met last night. I was at that meeting. Uh deconstruction continues on the old captorum. Uh hopefully people have seen pictures of that. Um that should be complete by tomorrow, my understanding is. And then they begin the 8 to 10 weeks of asbestous removal on the existing portion before they can start renovation. [clears throat] They're still targeting July 227 for completion. Um and he asked that we continue to post the superintendence uh message to the um uh families uh on our web page and I believe we're doing that. That's all I have. Council,

uh, the pool commission is meeting tomorrow, uh, right here at Burough Hall at 7 PM and, uh, I look forward to giving you an update at the next council meeting about that. So, that's it. That's it. Ba Gali, I just want a quick announcement. There's a crescent lighting uh, on Thursday, this week, February 12, at 6:30 p.m. at the United Methodist Church. I think this is really uh amazing for this community that uh the Muslim community is celebrating in a church. A lot to say about this community that or it's also about the weather. Take your pick. [laughter] Look, weather makes strange bed fellows. I don't know how you want to. They could have said no, but it'll work. It'll work. They could have said no. Okay,

that's why. Thank you. We're going to move on to the ordinances. Um, we're working on truncating the uh the reading portion. Um, and the clerk and I have been through some options and hopefully starting at the March 10th meeting, we'll be able to shorten this up. But, and I [clears throat] finished my water. I thought I should go get a drink. Hopefully, there won't be too many. Oh, there's only one. Okay. Um, introduction of 2611, Ordinance of the Bureau of Hillsdale, County of Bergen, State of New Jersey, relating to supplemental chapter 292-28 of the Burough Code entitled time limit parking, but this is we're going to make a modification to this. Will the council please?

Yeah, actually, we're we're going to introduce as is in all zones because that's I just had my assistant send me the ordinance. Um the ordinance refers to a schedule of all the zones. Okay. But we're only and we're only modifying by adding a time limit in the EV designated parking. So that's the whole point. We're we're we're talking about putting in EV charging stations and we don't want people in the west parking their car starting to charge and then disappearing and leaving those four spaces basically unusable to the rest of the community. So that's why that's why we're doing this. name of the schedule actually specifies the terms of parking in all zones

in all zones of the boat but we are simply adding this one concept. Okay. EV in the west lot. Be it resolved that ordinance 2611 does now pass a first reading and that said ordinance be further considered for final passage at a meeting of the mayor and council in the municipal building 380 Hillsdale Avenue, Hillsdale, New Jersey on March 10th, 2026 at 7 p.m. or as soon as thereafter and at set time and place. All persons interested will be given an opportunity to be heard concerning the same. And the clerk is hereby authorized and directed to publish that ordinance on the burrow the Hillsdale Burough website as required by public law at least one week prior to said hearing of the notice of its introduction and the time and place where, when, and where said ordinance would be considered for final passage. Can I get a motion? Motion.

Second. Second. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. It is passed. We're moving on to the resolution. We have consent agenda R26071 through R26075. Does anybody want to take something from the consent agenda to the non-consent agenda or off consent? Mr. Mayor, I'd like to pull 26075. 26075. Anybody else like to pull the resolution? 26075. Okay. Um, can I get a motion to pass the resolutions with the exception of 26075? Motion. Second. Second. Second. All those in favor? I.

Those are passed. And now we're going to take up 26075. Would uh I'll motion for it. You want a motion? Yeah. Because you can't have a discussion until you have a motion. Second. We have a second by Council President Roso. Okay. Um, Councilman Rico. Who? So, I have a couple. Well, quite a bit of quite quite a few questions on this. Who is responsible for adding this to the agenda? This came up rather suddenly. So, I just want to know who who was proposing which you did. Okay. And why are we sure that future EV which is the company that we are thinking about engaging in um will give us the best deal? What work did we do to make sure unless they're the only ones in the

There was two of them. one offered 5% uh and they ordered 15 and they offered 15 otherwise it was the same uh they were the same uh there was some that they wanted us to put up upfront money for the connection these are going to be using PSC and G grants so it's at no cost and the BPA right using all those right okay so so it's no out of pocket and it's you get 15% as opposed to five

right no that makes sense um the second whereas clause in in the resolution where it says uh you know I mean how can it be said that the bureau encourages greater ownership and use of electric vehicles? I mean I certainly don't encourage greater ownership of EVs any more than I encourage greater ownership and and usage of gas combustion engines. I just think it's not appropriate for us to take that position. I would rather have it say uh that it's consistent with the state of New Jerseyy's rules and you know I don't know um so you know why should the burough I mean if the council feels that they want to make that statement but uh you know I I just don't see why the bureau should take a position on what cars it wants uh the market to favor.

So let me ask does the council does anybody on the council agree with council want to have that either removed from the resolution? Well I was going to suggest a I was going to propose a modification, but I will do that at the end after I after I ask my other question. Oh, okay. Go ahead. Um, do we know what type of revenue stream the burrow will realize from this deal with future um EV? Yeah, there's no forecast. There's no forecast, but looking at the surrounding towns, uh it's it's not a money maker. It's it's more of a convenience. Okay. But we don't lose money on the deal.

Well, it's not going to cost us anything. They're going to come and put they're going to put them in there for no charge. If we get one person that fills up, it's one person that we didn't have otherwise. And it really is an opportunity for residents to come and charge their vehicles and also maybe patronize some of our businesses while they're waiting and char. No, no. And and I think it's I think it's a good thing. Let me let me go on record because a number of our residents do own EVs. Yes. and the fact that we don't have anything other other than in the I guess the garage for the new development. Um I think it's a good thing to at least install install some of these chargers. Um you know the contract makes the burough responsible for any required maintenance or replacement of the charging stations due to vandalism.

I just didn't think that was fair. I mean why should we bear the brunt of the act of a vandal and and not share that burden with the uh with the company? Right. So this is a template uh we we would go through the insurance if there was a vandalism just like if there's any vandalism to any of our properties the same thing. Um if you feel that he should or they should be taking on this um I can ask but this is a template that all the towns use. Well I just don't I mean

I don't think it's fair. Everybody else thinks it's perfectly legitimate. But I I just I was asking you're saying it's a template and we can leave it at that if that's that's the way you want it. Yeah. Just like if we have, you know, u you know, vandals at the train station. We go to the insurance company. We don't go to MBA. Who's responsible for insuring the units? Is it us or is it the So they have their insurance. But if they are, but but you know, we too have insurance on the parking lot because it's in our parking lot on the in the west parking lot. Right. We insure everything. So who actually owns the equipment? We No. No, they do. They do. Okay. So then they should replace it, right? I mean, if there's vandalism, right,

because we don't provide security or whatever. Uh the way they have it here is it's is it's on us. So I mean, they put it in a clause, Councilman, that uh was included vandalism and then negligence on our part. But vandalism being included in that, I'm saying to myself, why should we be responsible for that sole charge? So I don't I mean we will I don't I don't other than that's the way other towns do it. I don't get assassinated.

So I just I just asked the the VA we're going to we're going to put cameras up as part of this part of this buildout for it. So we will be monitoring it. So, I guess if they also vandalize the cameras um then we would be I mean, you know, there's only so much we can do um in an attempt to to catch them and you know, we're negligent because we didn't do anything. That's one thing, but we're we're going to try to stop that through monitoring.

Yeah. I also read the contract. It says that Future EV intends to participate in the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities Clean Fleet Program and other clean fleet incentive programs. And I didn't know what that was, so I had to go online and check it out what it was. It also says the bureau acknowledges that s certain chargers or ports may be designated in whole or in part for use by qualifying electric vehicle fleets as required by clean fleet incentives and that the burrow should not restrict, interfere, reassign, materially alter such fleet designated uses. So like where what does that mean for us the bureau? That's what I'm trying I'm trying to understand that better. So the grants that they are going for they have restrictions and they require them to have this language that we have we have to you know follow what the uh what the grant requirement is so they get the money

they get the money and it's just are we need to cooperate in that process it doesn't put any operational onus on us no okay fine John if I may then because that was I share that that question so that doesn't mean that they have the right for example to force us to use it commercially or allow a commercial business to come in and utilize it which could create an issue in your parking lot. So there are four spots that will be taken up. Uh are you concerned? Are you concerned like that that Enterprise is going to come with their EVs to charge here or are you concerned that somebody's going to show up with a Mac truck to charge? The spaces are limited in size

potentially that just the unknown right of of once once you give those rights away. Well, there they're four standard car slots, right? So, you know, they got they're going to be limited. Why we're why we're changing by ordinance the amount of time that somebody can park in a designated area, right?

If they show up with a vehicle of the right size, they're still going to be limited in the time they can be there. So, um I I I you know, the spots aren't going to be big enough for something huge, but I guess yeah, there's you know, in order to get this, we could end up with with some fleet vehicle. And I think that's kind of a an ambiguous term because fleet could be a fleet of passenger cars and they show up to charge which by the way um they their money is still green too and they're going to be paying us and we're still going to get our and we'd have revenue where we wouldn't have it now. The only thing is if we had

four four residents that were looking to charge and couldn't charge simply because of that. But them's the risks

and and maybe maybe this is for Mark. Maybe it's a simple language thing in there you can just slip in providing it's within the the use or something like that to to to mitigate that risk. But I'm voting yes on this regardless. I'm just making a recommendation and we can certainly have that discussion with them. Um you know obviously it's a c it's the governing body's choice. I you have to weigh what revenue you might derive from this um as against vandalism repairs such as they are given even given the insurance coverage

and um these fleet uses that may come about in two years or may come about in 10 years or not at all or not at all. Right. Of course, they have to be cars, you know, that fit like the mayor said, they're going to have to fit their slots. If they're there for 10 hours and we get 15% of that, let them be there as long as they want. As long as they're right now, we're getting paid nothing for them. So, 15% of something is better than 100% of nothing, right? Let's assume that we have the spaces to spend, right? Yeah. We do have room in the west. This is in the west slot, right? In the west lot. Do we know where in the west lot it's going to be? Yes. the four slots that are facing Helsdale Avenue with the dry cleaner.

Okay, that makes sense. And then the last question like why does the resolution call for four EV charging stations when the contract always calls for two? So my understanding this was always four. Are you saying four spots but two machines that that feed four spots? Machines have two sides. All right. So then no one should have a problem if I recommend an amendment to change the resolution from four EV charging stations to two. Each charging station has two ports.

Correct. That's two. I would just like consistency between the resolution and what the contract calls for. All right. So then with that in mind, I'd like to make an a motion to amend um the resolution that the first whereas clause and I need a second too. Sorry. Sorry. It's it's it's four stations even though there are two physical machines but there are four charging stations right because that's that's if Westwood is any thing to look at. Westwood has the station and then you could park on either side each one has two ports is a charging machine but but let's be clear the contract calls for two stations that can service each service two vehicles. Exactly.

So then just we could just add the language that are each capable of serving Right. So, so let me make the motion just to amend um the first whereas clause be amended to replace the word supports which appears in the second line with is consistent with. Okay. Um can I get a show of hands of who's in favor who would be willing to make that change? One, two, three, four. We can we've got enough for that. Okay. That for the charging station. Yes. Add me to that. Okay. We're going to add to it that says each of the two can service two vehicles a piece. Okay. Making 2 * 2 is four. Even if we need to show the math. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I made a motion on the first whereas clause.

Oh. Oh, this is the first word. Yeah. To be amended to replace the word supports, which is in line two, with is consistent with. So that it would read it's consistent as opposed to it's not it's not us taking a position. Right. We're just we're just acknowledging that it's it's consistent with the state's goals in anybody have a problem with that. Okay. Well, let's just show show let's do it individually so we just get this a show of hands. Does anybody have a problem with doing it that way? I guess not. No. Okay. So, everybody's in agreement down. Yeah. Did anyone second his motion though? Second.

They're all in favor, but no one second. [laughter] time. Does anyone want to second it? Second. Okay. All those in favor of that change? I. Anyone opposed? Okay. So, that's my in that the second whereas clause be amended to replace the word encourage with acknowledge the so it would read the burrow acknowledges the greater ownership and use of electric vehicles as opposed to encourages. Not a big All right. All right. So, is there a second on that motion? Second. Anybody? All those in favor? I I Anyone opposed? Opposed. Okay, we have one opposition. So, it's 5 to1 and Chris Camp is uh Scrooge McDuck today.

And the last the last request for an amendment is that the third whereas clause be amended to replace quote four EV charging stations with two EV charging stations, right? That that services two vehicles. Okay. Um do we get a second for that motion? Second. All those in favor? I. Anyone opposed? Great. Okay, now we're going to go back and we're going to decide. We've already had a first and a second. Um, can I get a mot? So, so can we take the a vote? All those in favor of passing 26075 as amended. All those in favor? I. Anyone opposed?

Congratulations. It's done. We have nothing on off consent. And now, gentlemen, it is time for off consent. You want to speak on off consent as well? Oh, no. Well, they're going to do styrofoam first. Do you want to comment on the styrofoam, too? Just No, I just wanted to come. Well, you can come in. One half. One time. Yeah, one at a time. You guys want to want to defer to to Sam here? You want to watch Sam? Come on [snorts] up for a couple minutes. As long as you promise to stay and watch about styrofoam. Yeah, I'll stay. Sure. Come this far, Sam. Thank you guys for your time. Name and town of president, please. Sam Resnick. I live in Hillsdale.

Welcome. Um, mayor, council members, thank you for your time. It's interesting to see the process and I understand how difficult uh the cell tower conversation has been. Um, I just wanted to go on record and uh express that, you know, it's a little surprising that the one advantage of Pier 4 is that they have a pre-existing uh knowledge of the town. Wouldn't it be more beneficial if someone didn't have any knowledge of the town? So they actually are driving through every street and doing real world analysis as to whether there is a gap or not. Any pre-existing knowledge is not a benefit in my opinion, but I understand the vote has already been made. So I will respect that. But I just want to um say that I hope the study is actually independent and I hope the analysis is real world as they say where they're where it's actually going to drive through the streets and and do it that way as opposed to using pre-existing uh data. Um, and I also, as uh, Kleti said, I hope that they are going to do all three service members or uh, service providers as opposed to just um, one.

Yeah, that's all I have to say. Thank you for your comments. I appreciate course. No problem. And gentlemen, now you got you've committed to staying for styrofoam. I will. Come on up, guys. Just uh, for the record, this is an extension of my uh, this is these are you, right? Exactly. Well, my road show my road show for the but but here's thank you John before we get started because this is like when the police union came but spoke during an open session which would normally be limited to three minutes but I view that as being something other than public comment.

Right? I also similarly view this as being something other than public comment because you're a burough entity seeking to do a report ancillary to a councilman's report. So, in order to have some sense of you not mandatorily being limited to three minutes, because I do view the police union or the environmental commission or any other entity that comes and happens to stand up during public, but their intention is clearly not speaking merely as

as an extension of the bureau, of course. So, I assume the council would agree, not to encourage a great length of time, but I assume the council would agree to extend the three minutes that I would think is a given for any burrow entity that chooses to speak or in this case seems to be we're all wanting to speak about styrofoam. Come on. Seems to be conscripted seems to be conscripted to speak by council. So, do we agree it's greater than 3 minutes? Do we need a vote? Four minutes.

Don't get carried away, but [laughter] but the time the time we just took you probably could have been done by I know there's a value to clarity about the Are you a married man? Yes, I [clears throat] am. So, you know, you have to. So, we agree I can spend greater than three minutes every Let's hear it. Okay. Okay. We're good.

We're good. Okay. What's up? My name is Owen Peacock and as we all know now, I'm a member of the environmental commission that lived here in town. Um, and I wanted to just quickly quickly address everybody about the shared services agreement with Richmond and why. And so, the idea behind it is recycling, recycling styrofoam. You know, I know it's not a hot topic, particularly after this, but um what we'd like to do is recommend a change. And I'd like to quickly explain why we're making this change. Um in this is last January uh styrofoam collection. Behind all the folks there is a 14 cubic yard rolloff that was stuffed to the brim with a tarp over the top to hold all the styrofoam plus the stuff that wouldn't fit in it. Um, so we had a a huge turnout of people for it. Probably [snorts] not going to see that again. Okay. And the reason why is we used a company called Poly Molding. Polymolding charged $125 a truckload. Whether you had 10 bags in the truck or 100 bags in the truck, it was a flat fee. So as a result, Hillsdale as well as the all the neighboring towns would open it up to other towns when we had a good drive so they could all come in and use it. It cost made no difference price. So it was a good good neighbor policy to do something like that.

Unfortunately last year after luckily after we processed all our styrofoam poly moldings equipment died and they made the business decision to no longer recycle styrofoam. Okay. So we were stuck. We had no place to go with it and that's why we didn't have a collection this year. Um, now Ridgwood shared services agreement. Rididgewood is offering this deal and what it is is per bag now of styrofoam. It's $5 to process it. Um, $5 per bag. Per bag. Okay. I'm sorry to interrupt you. A bag is an unscientific term, right?

Yes, I know. I so I was figuring somebody was going to ask about it being an unsight. So I I walked right into that Owen. Yes. Oh, thank you. It was very much appreciated. [laughter] So So this is not the exact bag that they're recommending, but uh this is the kind of bags that we've been using and the bags that they recommend are actually slightly bigger. So that's our five bucks worth. And we can compact the styrofoam so we get more. We can question it as much as we can get it in there. A bag is a bit but going to drive over it. Get a front end loader and mesh it down. But anyway, um so we're recommending

with a hybrid the uh the uh agreement with Rididgewood because it then gives us a viable way of processing and recycling styrofoam. Um the good part is that it requires no money commitment on our part. You pay only if you use it. There's no minimum requirement. If we never send anything over there, that's fine. But if we send it over, the only real commitment is we pay our bills five bucks a bag. That's the deal. So, how do we transport that? You

we'll bring it over. Right now, the DPW has agreed to bring it over. They will, if they do what they did for us last year, which was great. They they provided that roll off and then they brought it over to poly mold it for us. Okay. And this year they said they would bring at least one truckload over to um Ridgewood Forest. Okay. You dropped off the DPW on Glenn. Excuse me. Behind they're they collected at the DPW over at Glenn um

Ridgewood by Glen Avenue. The one in the back over there. Yeah. That's where they have that big machine, the big blue thing. Yeah. Um the By the way, I know somebody had asked about it. Um the amount of time that the DPW folks will be there is about 10 minutes. That's what they said it takes. That's why they recommend clear plastic bags. So as they're unloading them, they can check them, make sure it's all clean and everything else, and then off you go.

Um, so if we execute this agreement, um, we then have to purchase the bags that they recommend and it's, you know, about 150 bags or sell for 100 bucks and they're recyclable. We can continue to use those bags. Ridgewood will return them to us after each collection. so we don't have to continually buy bags and create more plastics. Um we will run the event like we usually have done over in Westlot uh with we'll work out the details with the DPW on how they want to work with it and then $5 a bag and away we go and we're back in business recycling styrofoam.

Just a quick couple of quick points on it. Ridgewood last year recycled, if you think about it, it's pretty amazing. 12,000 pounds of styrofoam they processed. It doesn't. That's a monstrous amount, you know. Oh, I'm going to throw you a salt ball here. What do they do with this stuff after they recycle? You should funny you should ask. So, um, they recycle it and they sell it. And currently when I was talking to him just the other day, they said that they are selling it to a company in Princeton molding that recycles it and makes uh decorative moldings for cruise ships

because since this is stuff is after this is what it looks like after it's processed. It's a forever plastic so it goes out to sea and salt doesn't bother it. It lasts forever to port and it goes on and on. But this is what it looks like after it comes out of the machine. Um, that's just another picture of us, but this one includes Councilman Kleti who did a marvelous job of stuffing bags of styrofoam underneath the talk for us last year. And we we you're invited back if we do this again. I'm a human compact. But anyway, that's it. And that's the rationale why we wanted to do this this agreement. And I hope you will agree with it.

Okay. Thank you. Yes. So, thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Fantastic.

Um, we're going to go to see nobody else is in here unless Fred wants to talk. But, uh, thank you, Councilman Oso, for your report. There you go. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. I appreciate your patience for sitting thoroughly today. It was great. Um, we're going to close public comment to go on to council comments. Um, I'm tired. Uh thank you guys everybody for for I think a productive discussion um of what we what we're going to do here. I encourage everyone to go to the Crescent uh lighting ceremony on the 12th. We've got a planning board meeting the same night. So we'll probably be at least Councilman Kleti and I are going to be a hit and run sort of appearance and come back over here to Burrow Hall. Um but it's great that they are that's they are doing that at the church. That's kind of a nice uh a nice juxiposition. So, um thank you. Um I'm going to I'm going to leave it at that. Um and we'll start at this end. Councilman Canon,

nothing for me. Thanks. Uh just saw today that Jeff Jasper, a teacher at Pas Valley High School and girls basketball coach, announced he is retiring. Uh he started teaching in 1971. And I think it's just retiring from coaching. I don't think it's from teaching. I I couldn't grab that from from what I saw. But uh he's a Vietnam War veteran. He's actually a lieutenant. He was in foxholes under combat and he had said, "God, if you get me out of here, I'm going to do something good with my life and he went into teaching. We actually recognized him a couple years ago um for his service." Um he still holds the record. Sorry, he's still the record holder for most victories, right?

Yeah. 1150, I believe, and still counting. Uh he said just it feel I feel it in my heart that it's time. Uh also Jim Gerbig Hillsdale resident, Navy veteran, u was recognized by the county as veteran of the month. Uh he was Operation Desert Storm in addition to other um uh campaigns. Uh he's very active in the American Legion advocating for veterans benefits and he was an officer in the US Navy. And also want to wish everybody a happy Valentine's Day. Council President Osleti.

Yeah. I want to start by uh congratulating the environmental commission. There were two resolutions on here this evening. One for the styrofoam and the other one for the electronic vehicle charging stations which the environmental commission has been working on incredibly hard for a long time. And over the past kind of 1.25 years, I'm not on the EC anymore, but I was last year. I I was witness how hard you guys work on these initiatives and you push for it. And I also want to thank Mike, our BA, because he followed through on that. Um, and I think it was a great accomplishment. So, congratulations. And once again, I just want to congratulate the Hillsdale Hawks. No matter how many times you say it, it's incredibly impressive. Undefeated, unscored upon Super Bowl champs. Great job, Councilwoman Mazich.

I have Council Ruka. Yeah. Uh, I just want to wish our residents a safe and relaxing President's Day. To all our Chinese residents, a happy new year, which is the year of the horse. I think it's this Tuesday. Uh to my fellow Christians, I think it's there's an acknowledgement of the religious importance of Ash Wednesday, which I believe is next Wednesday. Uh starts lent going up straight up through Easter. And finally, I want to remind What are you giving up? What am I giving up? Maybe a council meeting with [laughter] That's a real sacrifice. That's going to be a real sacrifice. The last [laughter]

the last um last thing I I want to remind those of us of a certain age uh that Thursday, this Thursday, February 12th, is officially Lincoln's birthday. Um and February 22nd is officially Washington's birthday. We used to get those up as independent holiday. So you must be old. So thank you. See? [laughter] Yes. Back in my day. Back in my That's all. Okay. Thank you. Um, can I get a motion to adjurnn? Motion. All those in favor? I see you all March 10th at 7 p.m. We're ajourned.