Planning Board - Regular Meeting

the sign. That's it. There it is. All right. All right. Um, call to order. Please join me in a salute to the flag. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all.

All right. This meeting has been duly advertised according to section five of the open public meetings act, chapter 231, public law 1975, also known as the sunshine law. Notice of the 2026 annual meeting schedule has been provided to the officially designated newspapers, the township clerk, posted on the township website and available at the Hillsboro Township Municipal Complex. Meeting and meeting application documents and plans have been made available on the township's website at hillsboro jersey.clerk.com at least 10 days in advance of this meeting. Complete application files are available in the planning and zoning department for inspection in accordance with the public meeting notice. Can I get a roll call, please?

Mr. Deb and Mr. Wagner are absent. Mr. Shar here. Mr. Flag here. Mr. Rowitz here. Mr. Vitali here. Mr. Smith here. Deputy Mayor Leani present. Mayor Payne here. Vice Chair Peas present. Chair Carelli here. Mr. C present. Miss Ball here. Uh Mr. Bernstein here, Miss D. Rosini here, and myself and the videographer are here. All right. Thank you. Uh, first on the agenda is comm uh consideration of meeting minutes of December 11th, 2025.

Eligible members, Mr. Chairman, are Mr. Sarrai, Secretary Ratowitz, Mr. Vitali, Deputy Mayor Leani, Vice Chair Pson, and yourself. Okay. Could I have a motion and a second for approval of the December 11th minutes? No, I thought you were asking just for a sec. I'll make the motion. It's been that long. Yeah, I'm used to asking that. I will second the motion. Okay, roll call. Mr. Sarra, yes. Mr. Rawitz, yes. Vitali, yes. Deputy Mayor Deputy Mayor Leani, yes. Vice Chair Pen, yes. Chair Chicelli,

yes. All right. Next is consideration of resolutions. We have Harvard Way JMJ4 LLC file 21-PB-09 MSPV remanded. Eligible members are Mr. Sarrai, Mr. Pson, and Deputy Mayor Leani. Okay. Uh, could I have a motion and a second to approve? So move, Mr. Chairman. Second. All right. Roll. Any discussion on it? Roll call. Mr. Sarra. Yes. Deputy Mayor Leani. Yes. Vice Chair P. Yes.

That was pretty tight. All right. The second resolution is the amended Sunnymade Landfill Redevelopment Area Preliminary Investigation Report. The resolution of recommendation. I think we discussed that at the last meeting. Uh, can I get a motion and a second to approve that? The eligible members are Mr. Sarrai, Mr. Flag, Secretary Ratowitz, Deputy Mayor Leani, Mayor Payne, Vice Chair Pson, and the chairman. Secretary Ratowitz will make that motion. All right. Any discussion? Seeing none, can roll call, please. Mr. Shari, yes. Mr. Flag, yes. Mr. Yes. Deputy Mayor Leani.

Yes. Mayor Payne. Yes. Uh, Vice Chair Pas. Yes. Yes. We have no planning board business. Is that correct? That is correct. Uh, excuse me, Mr. Chairman. If I could just uh give the board quick information. And for those uh following at home, I just would like everyone to know that uh all of the 2025 minutes have been complete. So, we are we are now this this may be a record, but we're we're now into 2026. Okay.

Uh, so just a special thanks. Our staff behind the scenes works really hard uh from Dborah uh in our office to also our recording secretary uh Robin. So, you know, they're the ones that make it happen. So, just keep that locked and loaded for when somebody asks again. Yes, we're ready.

All right. Thank you. uh any business for from the floor for matters that are not on the agenda. So if anybody in the audience, anybody in attendance has an item they want to discuss with the planning board, please come up now. All right. No takers. All right. Uh consideration of ordinances. First is ordinance 20261, the ordinance amending chapter 188 land use devel and development article 1 title purpose definitions section 188-3 words and terms defined and article 5 districts and standards section 18806 I1 I2 I3 light industrial districts of the code of township of Hillsboro Somerset County, New Jersey. Um Mr. Do you want to?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have issued a memo dated February 4th, 2026. Ordinance 2026-01 amends chapter 188, land use and development of the township code. Specifically, the ordinance revises article one title purpose definitions and article 5 district and standards section 188106 governing the I1, I2 and I3 light industrial districts. The ordinance adds a definition for smallcale storage and distribution. Establishes limitations on the size and operational characteristics of such uses. Permits the use as a principal permitted use within the applicable industrial district. Clarifies permitted manufacturing and assembly uses conducted entirely within enclosed buildings. Establishes a maximum load dock ratio and includes provisions addressing non-conforming structures. As reflected in the ordinance recital, these amendments follow prior zoning actions affecting warehousing and distribution uses within the township's industrial districts and a negotiated settlement intended to address the conforming status of certain existing industrial structures. From a master plan perspective, the proposed ordinance is generally consistent with the township master plan and that it reinforces the intended function of the township's I1, I2, and I3 light industrial district by permitting a range of industrial and employment generating uses while establishing clear operational and dimensional standards. The ordinance provides additional clarity regarding the scale and intensity of storage and distribution activities, limits truck and loading impacts through defined performance standards, and maintains compatibility

with surrounding land uses. These provisions are consistent with the master plan's land use and economic development objectives of supporting viable industrial uses, promoting reinvestment in existing industrial properties, and ensuring the development standards appropriately manage impacts associated with industrial activity. These provisions are also consistent with the master plan's long-standing objective of ensuring that the scale and intensity of development is appropriate to its context and that non-residential uses are designed and operated in a manner that minimizes adverse impacts on surrounding residential neighborhoods. Uh, and just for the board to be advised that the township committee has this scheduled for public hearing and possible adoption at its February 24th, 2026 meeting. Any questions from the deis uh on this ordinance?

Mr. Cor, which is this only applicable to the which one? I2 to I1, the I2 and the I3. Okay. Do we do you have a map to show where those are? I do not have the one with me. Can you describe? Uh it's approximately eight different locations

uh throughout the town. Most notably uh along the um the CSX line. Uh the zone also exists in different places on Route 206 towards the north by Camplane Road. Oh, look at this technology. Do I have it in the office? Oh, we do. But um

we would we would put a map up, but if we can't use more than one computer tonight, unfortunately, because of the technology. Um so the I3 is also along 206 across from Duke Farms. There is one there is an I2 district on Duke's Parkway East. There is an I1 along Camplane Road and a portion of 206. Um there is also Yeah. So there's the I2 that's in between well mostly the the one CSX line and then towards Sunnyme. Is that Sunny? Yeah. Uh there's an I1 on Sunny and also on Western Road. Oh, and can you go up? Thank you. And then there is uh there's an I1 district over by Flagtown uh like past the bridge over there. And I believe that's all the locations.

Um about the L storage. It doesn't impact that one because that's the LI unfortunately. The same name but different letters in the front. So that one's LI. It does not impact the LI. Correct. Was the LI already modified? The LI was already modified and it's a different it's a it's a different definition. It's a little higher intensity compared to this one. Okay. But it was for smaller size.

This is Yes. This is smaller scale than what would or is allowed in the LI. And because the I1, I2, I3 is so sort of sporadic throughout the town and is surrounded by residential in in many cases, uh that's that's the reason why we were very careful in terms of regulating um the intensity in different ways, you know, from from loading docks uh to size and all those things.

Is there additional language going in? Because I'm just looking at the ordinance. So we put in a definition for the smallcale storage and distribution and then we added in I guess the manufacturing processing fish finishing and assembly of products with an enclosed building that they're not two related. They're is that what's supposed to be happening in the small scale storage and distribution or is it two separate permitted uses?

They're they're two separate permitted uses. the uh clarification on the manufacturing was more you know cleaning up some inconsistency that was in the district. Um there was action uh taken by the the township committee in in in a different era where in this district there used to be a reference to another zone allowing all uses and um for those of you that have been on the board for a while when there was some cleaning up and kind of changing where the utility uses uh it was basically taken out. Uh so we had studied that and we see that there's a lot of a lot of those types of uses. A lot of things are are being made there. Uh like G&J Steel for example that this board has has seen. So that was more of a of a cleaning up. Uh it it was technically part of the litigation settlement, but it was something that we we had recommended.

Okay. So, so I I mean I didn't I know with again with a small scale storage distribution definition we just limit the size of the building and then we max out or how many space or how many loading docks they're allowed to have. Was there any consideration to put in limitations on hours or anything along those lines just to get a little bit more some specifics in here and again I wasn't privy to the negotiations or the court proceedings but there's a lot of ad um qualitative saying you know infrequent truck app truck traffic low daily trip generation but without any perhaps quantitative

there's no limitations in terms of hours as that's that's not something we have consistently or or have within the ordinance. So, we didn't find it um we didn't give it consideration just because that's not something you would typically typically find in the in the definitions. Usually, it's it's been this board's practice or or even the board of adjustments practice when you have uh development application. That's when those considerations are are are taken. I'm not aware of any um any current rule that the township has on on prohibition of of ours. So my understanding is that you know this is typically how it's been done is on the site plan when the approval happens. Uh those are the hours that are on there when when this board or the board of adjustment approves it and then those are the governing hours going forward. But we it has not been our practice to to put that in any sort of definition or any restriction within the land use code.

Right. Okay. Because it says limited frequency of pickup and delivery. So I didn't know if you know that might be appropriate to put in some type of limit. Yeah. What what is those limited frequencies? I'm just going by experience of what we went through with the infamous W applications. Well, we believe that the limits that have been put on there in terms of the um um the the docks, the size and things like that that that those are going to help help govern the um the situation. Yeah, I would I mean that at a spot that one per 5,000 square feet and a max size of the standards of 2500 square feet aren't going to generate much more than your small little box truck deliveries. Um so, you know, I don't think there'll be a lot of quote unquote traffic that would need to be governed by this. I think the the biggest thing here is that we're limiting the size of the building and the number of load docks. So they couldn't just blow the whole site up and build something else. Right? So this is I think this is the key here is that um whatever's there can can stay in that use but it can never be destroyed in in a large scale logistic area or whatever be built which is against our ordinance anyway but this protects the uh the small ones.

Okay. And it's 25,000 square feet or 2500 I think. Okay. 25,000 square ft. Is this uh is that consistent with what we have in the LI, right? When we made the change to the LI, there's no no limitations on ours. Is that

correct? Okay. And it's different numbers, but the same the same tools the same tools that we used to to regulate that were applied in this situation, but just at a smaller scale. If and just I I think to paint the color a little bit more. This was generated by a lawsuit that was from the Larkin one. Somebody jumped on the bandwagon. Turned out they jumped on the bandwagon for the wrong reason. And this is the reason they jumped on and they had a manufacturing they were doing more manufacturing as they should have gone to the zoning board or um it was not an issue for that lawsuit. So when we explained that to them, this it led to this discussion um or this that this I I believe they dropped the lawsuit, but um that it led to this cleanup,

right? um their manufacturer, what they were doing on site with Tum's bottles, right? Correct.

Um just to add a little bit to that, um basically when the warehouse uh as a principal permitted use, when that ordinance came about prohibiting it, it it didn't it didn't impact some of these sites and specifically the site that was part of this litigation. it didn't impact it because manufacturing was the principal use and the any of the warehousing on that site was all accessory. Um so when they had applied for a certificate of non-conformity, they were actually denied for it and then there was a property sale and there was a new owner now and then they decided to you know um litigate to the township. Well, we to to be completely honest with you, regardless of the litigation, the the way that we approached this was just sound planning in terms of thinking about uh how this district is is different than some of our other industrial districts, most notably the LI. And again, cleaning it up and making sure that it's consistent and has uses there um that can bring in ratables that can have buildings get get filled. Uh so we we were able to apply apply that to to this try to make a difficult situation into a positive is as is as we did it.

Okay. Okay. So the litigant was more of a manufacturer not a existing storage and distribution facility. Yeah. So this is just to help them with their business from a manu have that other as the permitted use so that they can actually store materials. Yeah. And and to be completely honest to, you know, it benefits any any of the

any of the uses that were made non-conforming, you know, through through that original ordinance. So, it addresses it addresses any sort of situations if someone's able to fit under under this new under this new use. Any other comments or questions based on this discussion? Thank you, Mr. Co. Thank you.

Um, so motion call ask for a motion and a second to approve ordinance 202601. Do we approve or is it a recommendation for the recommendation for the approval of inconsistent with the master plan? Oh, so it'll be heard by the township committee. Right. This is we're in between reading one and two. Okay. So the action is

the action is to uh prove to the extent the ordinance is drafted and find that is consistent with the master plan. All right. Motion and a second for that. So moved. Second. Roll call. We have a second. Yeah. Mayor Mayor. Mr. Sarra. Yes. Mr. Flag. Yes. Mr. Rawitz. Yes. Mr. Vitali. Yes. Deputy Mayor Leani. Yes. Mayor Payne. Yes. Vice Chair Pas. Yes. Chair Cherelli.

Yes. So we look forward to hearing that at February 26th Township Committee meeting. 24th. All right. All right. Um, next on the applications public hearing for PA 206 LLC file 26-PB-02-inf block 199 lot 63 which is 403 Route 2020 206. The applicant is seeking informal review proposing a conceptual plan to partially demolish an existing vacant bank structure to renovate the remaining portion to consistent of an approx to consist of an approximate 2,250 ft urgent care facility and a separate standalone 545t 7 brew drive-thru coffee shop which will include a 200 foot walk-in cooler on the property located in the township center, the township center district and the ASD architectural and site design overlay district. So, we have council participating. Um, Mr. Kois, do you want to do you have anything to add before we uh hear from the applicant?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I think it's a good time to hear from the applicant. Uh, I could reserve my comments. Uh, it issued the

just to clarify clarify what we're hearing, which is this is just anal Yeah. And it's a requirement and ordinance that if you're going to uh develop in the uh town center district that you have to come to the planning board for concept review. Uh regardless if what you're proposing ultimately will need the zoning board of adjustment which in its present form we are of the opinion that it would u but again this is essentially informal. This is information to provide to the applicant for their consideration on the next actions that they may take.

And we and we will actually not be issuing any instructions on this other than our observations. And you'll be giving recommendations and thoughts, but any actions or any comments the board makes are comments and ultimately have no bearing necessarily on the ultimate application either as is to completeness andor as to any decision by the applicable board whether it's this one or the zoning board. All right. Thank you. Oh, why do we want to do that? I need to move the mic closer. Cherylyn, thanks, Eric. Yeah,

good evening. My name is Cherylyn Walters. I'm a partner at the law firm of Neimad Davis and Goldstein. We're council for PA 206 LLC, uh co-owner of the property located at 403 Route 206 with uh another company called AC 206 LLC. Representatives of both are with me this evening. Um, just want to note for the record, I recently and still am representing Mr. Pson's wife in a land use matter. Um, but since we're here for informal review and the board is not taking any official action, I don't have any concerns about Mr. P uh providing comment or staying on the deis. Um,

we're going to kick him off anyway, but that's all right. And and for housekeeping purposes, we um we were asked to clarify the representatives title of the applicant on some of the forms that were submitted with the informal review. So, we did send Miss Padet an electronic copy of those documents today and this is the paper copy. So, I'm going to give that to Miss Ball. Okay. Thank you.

All right. So, um, PA 206 LLC is the owner of the property at block 199, lot 63, 403 Route 206. And as indicated on your agenda and Mr. chairman wrote read into the record the concept plan is for a combined use urgent care uh in a reduced version of the existing vacant bank building that's on the site and the addition of a small building with out with a storage component for a seven brew. I'm going to bring up our engineer, our site civil engineer. We have a concept plan that was submitted with the application. Um, and that is on the the thumb drive that I handed Miss Ball if it's working. Yeah. Okay, great. Thank you. All right. How do I

Yes, I pulled up both. And how do I Oh, there. There they are. Okay, great. So, I'm going to zoom out here. Okay, there we go. I can zoom in as needed. All right, so to my right is Mr. Jim Henry. Um, he's going to describe the concept plan and the concept that's being presented to you tonight, even though it's informal. Do you want to swear him in, Mr. Bernstein? Michael, just turn the mic on.

James Henry. Hen R Y from Dynamic Engineering. James Henry from Dynamic Engineering. Um, HNR Y uh based in Lake Ko, New Jersey. Uh, Mr. Henry, are you a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey? Yes, I'm a licensed professional engineer as well as a licensed professional planner. And would you give the board briefly the benefit of your education and experience in both fields?

Uh, sure. I have a bachelor's of science from Ruckers University in civil engineering with a minor in public planning from the Blouseine School of Planning. Uh, I also have a masters from Ruckers University in civil engineering. Uh, I'm a senior principal at dynamic engineering. I've employed there for over 20 years. Um, I've testified in front of over a 100 boards throughout New Jersey, including this board. Um, what else we got? All those times that you testified, have you been qualified as an expert in both the field of engineering and professional planning? Not all the times because I usually depending on what what I'm needed for, I don't always qualify as a planner. But, uh, tonight I I I I don't mind qualifying for a planner because we can talk about the the use itself.

And do your licenses are they all current and in good standing? Yes, I'm a lic licensed in New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, uh, as well as Pennsylvania. and both my licenses sure for engineering and planning are in good standing. So to the extent necessary I submit Mr. Henry as an expert in the both the fields of engineering and professional planning. Did you say New Jersey? Yes. All right. I must have missed it. I heard sorry I I skipped over that. You might have I heard New York Connecticut. I think you said New Jersey New York Connecticut but you went pretty fast. All right.

Okay. So Mr. Henry Dynamic Engineering has prepared a conceptual site plan for this project. Correct. Yes. So, uh we were contracted by the client to take a look at the property overall um and try and find some uses that that would be compatible uh with with this site. Um, while we are we do understand that the the zoning doesn't permit uh the drive-through use, the urgent care uh medical use, which is um partially demolishing the existing bank building that's on site and then reutilizing uh a portion of that building uh in order to propose approximately 200 2,250 square foot uh urgent care um where the existing bank footprint is. Um, in addition to that, uh, you know, we understand the the zoning that's in place for this use. Um, you know, is in the town center and and in reviewing the town center as well as the master plan. Uh, we completely understand that there's um there was ordinance change I think in 2024 if if I'm correct, as far as not permitting restaurants with drive-throughs. Um, we think this is a little bit of a unique circumstance because, you know, while we understand there's there's a Taco Bell nearby and and McDonald's, this use in particular really only sells coffee. Um, so it's it's a coffee user, it's not really selling burgers or anything like that. It's just selling drinks and coffee uh for people who are, you know, driving by or you can walk up and go to a walk up window. Um so it is pedestrian friendly where you can walk up and you know get a coffee, you sit down on the outside and um we think it's you know in reading the master plan and the goals for the town center we understand it you know it wants to be pedestrian friendly but also with the understanding obviously we're on route 206 which is definitely a high highly traveled uh highway you know trying to meet the two um two uses you know the two goals you know trying to make it pedestrian

friendly while also So uh understanding we're on a state highway um you know we try to amend those two things. So we understand that you know there is a variance involved here uh whereas it looks like the ordinance does not permit it. Uh but this is a little bit unique as far as the use. So just talking about the site itself um you know the site is going to the building's going to stay where it is a part part of it as I mentioned that there is already a drive-thru on there um you know for the bank. So, the bank drive-thru is going to be demolished. Uh, and that's on the uh I guess the northeasterly side of the building. Um, right now there's it's, you know, when you drive there, it's kind of a weird situation. I just drove there. Um, you know, around the back. You have to kind of go around the back of the building to kind of circulate around. I'm not sure why, but you know, we think it would work a lot better if there was a kind of a circulation area in front of the building. uh allowing for like a few parking spaces and really kind of trying to make it more of a um you know a retail friendly type of pad for for urgent care and then also provide parking behind the building for like employees or things of that nature. So we provide kind of a dead-end parking area behind the building. Also we show the trash enclosure two trash enclosures behind the building which are you know you can't they're screened from Route 206 so driving by you really can't see it. We provide two-way access on the uh south side of the building. So, if you came in and you wanted to go to the parking area in front, you could come out, you know, go out to the driveway. If you went to the rear parking area, you come back out and go to the front and get out back out to 206. In addition, right now there isn't any access to the Town Center Drive, which, you know, obviously as you as you head to the southwest then brings you to the light. So, allows kind of, you know, from a traffic perspective allows you to kind of get around to where you need to go. Um, then all you know, there there is stacking associated with this. When you look at the stacking, um, this particular you Seven Brew has a has a few stores that they're they've opened in New Jersey. Um, you know, I'm I'm representing the landlord, but I've

done a few se seven brews uh throughout New Jersey. Uh, and they have, you know, significant stacking requirements, particularly because there aren't that many of them. I'm sure as you know if if those of you that remember you know Chick-fil-A's Sonics when when they started coming to the market you know they had extreme backups and things like that. Um you know now Sonics are you know they're almost like ghost towns. So um you know as as more of these become open the stacking doesn't become as prevalent. But what we did was we designed this for you know what they're seeing today. So, we designed this for like your maximum type situation where you have significant stacking around the outside. And 7 Brew is a little bit unique because the way they operate, they don't have a menu board. Um, so it's not like a typical fast food. They actually have people that walk through the drive-thru lane with like little kiosks and

like Yeah. They take they take your order for your window and then by the time you come up, uh, they basically just hand you a cup of coffee and you're you're on your way. So, um, they have a very efficient design. Um, again, we probably can get into operations a little bit more, but um, you know, it's not like a typical fast food user. Um, again, the the food the food offerings is very limited. It's like a muffin. It's the the food offering is almost almost nothing. Uh, whereas this is more of like a coffee shop and and it also does allow, you know, meets the pedestrian need because it does allow for walk up people and uh, we can provide a pedestrian path as as required. Again, this was kind of just kind of a hand sketch that we put together. to see how we could meet the seven brew requirements. You know, in order to make this kind of financially worth it for our clients, uh we tried to maintain uh a portion of the existing bank. Um and then our client was able to find a uh a tenant for that that space. Uh we were able to find an urgent care to take that space. Um so they do have, you know, interested, we know who the two users would be for this AFC urgent care and the other one would be SevenBrew. Um what we're here today is kind of take the temperature of this board and really kind of you know I know this board isn't voting and also we'd have to go to the board of adjustment. Um but I think it's we want to take the temperature of the board to find out you know is this something that would be entertained you know what what are your feelings on this? Obviously the ordinance I think in looking at the ordinance my guess is the ordinance was probably adopted after the Taco Bell got approved and was like we don't want you know a litany of of drive-throughs along along 206. Um whereas this really isn't you know more like a traditional like you know fast food users whereas this is more of like a high-end coffee user uh and a little bit of a unique operation. Um and then the access is is great for this type of use. Um you know obviously we have we have route 206 uh that allows you to have you know right and right out driveways and then we provide access out

the back to Town Center Drive which would allow the the full movement driveway. So, we really wouldn't anticipate, you know, all the activity would kind of be in the back of the site. Really, you I want to make sure, you know, obviously you have your planners here. Uh we do understand, you know, what they put together and we we we understand what the the goals of the town are, but we wanted to get feedback on on this user.

So, so Jim, just to demonstrate um consistency with what you're saying about the use of the Seven Brew and their limited product availability, can you just describe the bu the two buildings that are shown on the concept plan for the Seven Brew? Sure. So the the front building uh there's two blue buildings in blue. Uh the front building is really the kind of the main building and that building is is is a prefab. The way they operate they have like a prefab building where they come in almost like a shipping container. So the landlord basically makes a pad ready. They come they bring a finished building that they they they put on the site. Uh it has a prefab kind of overhang area with with a little seating area on the outside. Then the blue area behind it is more of a for refrigeration. So again, it's a prefab refri refrigeration area to keep a lot of their, you know, storage and things like that. Um, and then there's a a sidewalk that runs, you know, basically from the front of the site to the back to allow, you know, there's I think there's a door in the back and there's a door in the on the side that allows access into the the front the front building. And then

what we I'm sorry. And overall, what's the square footage of the primary building, not the storage building? Uh so the the primary building is approximately 545 square feet. So it's extremely small. Um you know we do you know I've been in front of this board for Apple Monasuri for a lot of other users. Um you know just and I understand how like a Starbucks and a Duncan we we do a lot of those as well. Um like this is even this is much smaller than even a Dunkin Donuts would do. This is like a almost half of what a Dunkin Donut. Most Dunkin Donuts want like 1,200 square feet even at the smallest. Um so this is like a very very small building and um you know the impact is you know not as substantial as as a typical fast food user.

So we did receive a couple of reports a fire official uh memo report from Mr. Kois and a report from uh Penon's office and um and the board engineer. And so we had some comments that that we received. Can you just kind of walk through what we did um with this version of the concept plan that we're showing?

Sure. Um, let me preface this with this. This is a very preliminary concept. This was kind of like a hand sketch we put together to just really kind of get a feel for the layout. We didn't do a full zoning on this. So, you know, I think a number of the comments kind of go into the zoning requirements. We didn't really list that out. Uh, we wanted to try and take the temperature of the board first. Um, so the Penoni letter I think goes into um going into sheet two goes into uh the NRCS web soil surveys just talking about how we'll have to do storm water and we're we we understand we'll have to do storm water. Um goes into the connection to town drive. It says the office supports the connection to town drive. Goes in the appropriate rightaway uh which will you know obviously if we need more rightaway with on either of the sides we can we can comply with that. Um then as far as the setbacks, you know, the town center ordinance requires you to be actually closer to the front. Um so this situation, we would be utilizing the existing building. So we would be asking for relief for that. Um being it's, you know, it's an existing building out there. Um screen plantings, obviously, we're going to comply with that. You know, we understand this use. We want to make sure it's buffered. You know, the the good part about this type of use, it really peaks around like between 7 and 9:00 a.m., you know, it doesn't really have it it stays open till like 10 10 or so. It's not super late. It's not like a 24-hour use like your again your typical fast food use at 10 p.m. or so. Yeah. So, it doesn't stay up, you know, stay open super late. Um, so the hours aren't aren't crazy substantial. Uh, but then we could supplement planting and and we're trying to basically make sure there's a a distance between the residential uses. There's also no speaker box. So there's no like menu board or anything like that uh for from a noise perspective. Um and then there was um so that's number six. Number seven is just regarding the the parking location. Uh it says the parking location be located in the rear yard uh whereas there's parking in the front yard. Just from a general retail

perspective, you know, while your ordinance does call for parking in the rear, you know, typically you can see with many of the other users, you know, retailers like, you know, even people passing by like to have parking in the front just for convenience. And this is both of these uses are really kind of a convenience type use. They're pass by uses. So they're not really uses where they're like generating a ton of traffic. They more are pulling from the traffic that's already on 206. Um, so convenience is a big part of it, which is why we're asking for for parking in front of the building as far as the back as well as the back. Also, just so we have adequate parking, you know, given the unique circumstances where we're reutilizing the existing building kind of puts a unique situation as far as the the parking the parking layout. And then as far as the loading uses, um, so the way Seven Brew works is they typically will actually utilize their their drive-thru uh during off- peak hour like because again they have their drive-through lanes. They they're overdesigned basically. Um, so they would basically utilize the drive-through lane as as as a loading zone uh during off- peak hours at the rear of the building. Also, we have a striped area at the dead-end parking area for like, you know, smaller trucks such as like box trucks and things like that. So, um, so we're anticipating mostly box trucks, uh, potentially larger trucks. We have to talk to the, um, seven Brew as far as, you know, what they're willing to use as far as from a loading perspective on this this, um, at this particular store. Um, so that's that's a little bit about the Penoni letter. And then just going into the uh, Hillsboro. So then going to the fire letter. Um, it looks like most of the comments are, you know, adding a Knox box, which you see, you know, is fairly typical. The other thing I think the fire official wanted to know is whether or not a fire truck could circulate, and we did did put together a circulation plan. Um,

and that's what you're seeing on the screen, which is what you're seeing on the screen. That's what you're seeing on the screen right now. It looks very similar because again, this was not done in CAD. The Well, the circulation was done in CAD, but the sketch wasn't. So you can see the circulation around the bypass lane uh can be handled uh by a firet truck. So we want to make sure that the board is aware that you know again this is a very rough sketch but the the way it's designed does allow for a drive you know a firet truck to basically pass the outside lane and we would make sure to accommodate that during hard engineering. Correct.

Yes. Um, so just to summarize again, you know, we there's on on the right hand side of the of the screen where you're looking at it, there's obviously there's the primary drive-through lane, which is really the one closest to the building. There's another drive-through lane, which is adjacent to that, which probably would only be used during peak hours. Um, and then there's the outside lane, which is a full bypass. So, um, you know, there's plenty of circulation around the outside of the building. And then obviously, we're designing this for your your worst case scenario given the stacking. you know, just just as a for comparison. For instance, like a uh I do a lot of Dunkin Donuts. I've done like a lot like over 50 Dunkin Donuts. Um so like a Dunkin Donuts, for instance, usually peaks, you know, somewhere around like 10 to 11 cars. Um you know, we're showing a lot of cars here. Um, so you know, this is a lot a lot of stacking, but you know, given some of the information that they they've done on these initial openings, it it kind of does justify this.

Now, long term, I don't know if that will continue as as they continue to cannibalize each other. Um, you know, Starbucks, for instance, usually you have closer to like a 12 car stack. Now, Starbucks is very slow at operating and and uh like Dunkin Donuts turns over an order in roughly about like two minutes. Um, Starbucks is is closer to like three or four minutes. It takes a lot more time. Um, you know, so Duncan passes through a lot quickly. You know, this user is very similar, you know, where it's it's it's very a very small menu and they have a very small building, so they don't have a lot of options. So, they also uh turn over people a lot quickly, very quickly. So,

can I ask a quick question? Sure. And maybe David or um Eric can answer. So I know you're coming from the plan board has been in formal review, but the relief variance that they're asking for has got to go for the board of adjustment. So are they hearing us just to ask questions and they still need to go for the board of adjustment to get the variance? Is that what Yes. Are they going from the board of adjustment to get their feedback too or are they just coming here only? And everything would be before the board of adjustment. I'm saying you're asking for our input, but I don't know if you were planning on going from the board of adjustment too to get their input before as an informal. So, and that that that's the board that's going to hear your application ultimately.

I understand. Uh, Deputy Mayor Leani, it's nice to see you, by the way. Um, so under the municipal land use law, the zoning board cannot conduct informal review meetings, but your town center ordinance or your ordinance requires informal review with the planning for board for development within the town center. So, we're just kind of balancing the two. So any feedback that we get from yourself, the mayor, um any members, any other members of um your staff that would be here that would also review the zoning board application is just valuable feedback for the applicant to take back to take a look at this as we start to enter into hard engineering. And we appreciate any thoughts and comments that you have, even if you're not going to end up sitting on the zoning board and weighing in at that level. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure we all understood that we're not actively going to hear the application when it should come forward, right?

So I I think

so. Yeah. So in summary, I you know, I think this is a good use. Um whereas it balances a lot of I think what you know the town is trying to do with the town center. Obviously this is this is a a property that's it's vacant. Uh so this is a creative reuse of the existing building. Um, you know, taking into account that obviously we're on 206, but also understanding, you know, we want to make this more pedestrian friendly and we can work with your planner and your engineer in making, you know, more pedestrian friendly, providing sidewalks, things of that nature, uh, to allow for people to use the urgent care as well as, uh, the coffee shop. Um, you know, we can work with that and, uh, try and make it more pedestrian friendly, but also, you know, understanding it's it it is on a highway. Um, you know, there is this is a drive, you know, a drive-through component, which is important for this type of building and being how small it is. Um, you know, it also that's a big part of how they operate. Um, but I we can we can work with the landscaping. We can really clean up the architectural and kind of trying to m give it a nice colonial look similar to the building that's out there. I think it has good architectural bones. Um, and I think once you redevelop this, I think it would uh fit in well with the uh corridor. So, I think the sidewalk would be a must for sure. There is a sidewalk on the adjacent properties to it. Um, so I think that that would definitely be something we'd be looking for on this property as well. The other thing is I think from a usability, as I mentioned earlier, Dutch Brothers, it's a very similar layout and a very similar ordering system because it has a limited menu. It does make things pretty expeditious. even when there is, you know, quote unquote a lot of line, it moves very, very quickly and expeditiously. So, I think the safety of that sidewalk would be paramount. Um, but I also like the fact that you took into account of like a little seating area outside. That's something that like a Dutch Brothers doesn't have. I'm very old, Sam, so you won't get this reference, but there was like a photo booth back in my day where you took your actual film, and it's a little bit

bigger than that kind of setup as a Dutch Brothers. anybody who laughs is getting kicked. Um, so this is kind of like a little bit larger of that mindset. And I think it's a great use of the the the building to have the urgent care on one side, you know, especially as a parent who's waited in an urgent care a very long time, it's nice to have something right there, but just from a walkability in that section of town. Um, as you mentioned, we do have a Taco Bell and a McDonald's right there, but this is something very niche and unique, and I think it would be a good attribute. I have a qu is there a restroom in that 575 square feet.

I I don't think it's public, but I mean, urgent care would have that. So, you know, there would be they they operate similar hours. So, I I don't think actually most urgent cares kind of end close around 5 or so. I'm not sure the hours of the ASC. Well, does it have indoor seating for the drinks? It doesn't. No. So, it's drive-thru only. It's drive-thru, but has then has a window. But nobody can go in there and sit. I guess that's my point. Yeah. And it has a covered area as well over over the seating area. That's why they don't have to. Can I just ask a clarification? Um the part that you're partially de demolishing, which part is that? Like the overhang of the bank?

Uh we would be demolishing the bank, but also we're shortening the building um on the I guess it's the northeast side. So um you know, I would say we're maintaining about 50% of the existing building as far as it's more of like a rectangular and we're cutting it in half or so. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I think I think when the full package comes in, you'll have a before and after. you'll present, you know, where the existing is, what's coming out. They'll they'll show that on I was thinking the same thing of where the where the rest of that rectangle is, but absolutely.

Um, couple things to consider. Uh, 206, uh, you did say it was it won't always be a state highway. Uh, so it's part of the town part that's going to become a eventually become a township road.

Okay. at least that portion of it. Related to that, to the west and to the east, there's two highdensity housing developments going in eventually, which we presume will be will also want the walkability aspect of it. So, you may even think about more sidewalks or how people from the uh west and east are going to be able to walk to it. Um, so you got you've got some more customers coming. And so so that's, you know, I'm not helping you make your case, but just making you aware of where where it's going to be, what's going to be going on around the the property. Um,

yeah, I think I think we can we can definitely get more creative with the sidewalks and pedestrian outdoor seating, things like that. Um, you know, in reading your ordinance in reading your ordinance and the master plan, I got a a good feel for what what you're looking for. Uh we can talk to our client about, you know, I know there's a few seats outside. We could maybe add some more create like a walk, you know, pathway to the rear. Well, there's like this weird triangle between the blue buildings roughly triangle. Create like maybe a little patio area or something like that. That would be my suggestion. Okay. Even if it's not paved, right? Like if it's just like a little grass land with some like tables on the grass. Yeah. Or like or benches and things.

Something like that. Yeah. What is the uh that leads actually into the last part that I last issue I had which was impervious coverage. What's what's the impervious for this zone area? I think it's 85%. You're pretty close to that. Yeah, there's a lot of lot of pavement in here. So yeah, I think it's 85% uh if I'm correct. Um so you could add more then. Yeah, get grass. I think we'll be well below. My guess, you know, I I didn't run the exact numbers, but if I were to guess, we're probably, you know, 60 or so in that range. Um because,

you know, hyper aware of the use, the the the rear use, we want to maintain that that that thick vegetated buffer to the rear. Um and really trying to buffer this use from the the single family residential. It's going to be, you know, more of a transition type use. Uh and very aware of that. Um, you know, I know a lot of lot of the other adjacent uses don't have that, but I think I think that would be beneficial to the neighbors and and and produce any impacts. Yeah. Okay. And we'll also likely um gain some green space through the stormwater management process, too. Right. Under current stormwater management regulations, there's I I think we end up losing some, gaining some throughout the process.

Right. I think you have more than enough availability of space to take away some, you know, existing paved areas even to make it more green. Yeah, I think we can take a look to see if there's some areas that we can make that work. Obviously, once we get a little further in design, we'll really kind of nail down, you know, how many employees they need, how much actual parking they need. We might reduce some parking if we need to. Uh obviously make sure that we meet the ordinance as much as we can but also make it you know not over park the site where we just create pavement for no reason. Exactly.

Sure. So when you say is it operating kind of like a Sonic that people are sitting there or is it just a true drive-thru? It it's well I would say it's a true I think it's very unique because it's not a true drive-thru. It's similar. I don't know like Touch Brothers is really really the only real comparison, you know, and and the I guess Chick-fil-A where you know like where someone walks up to your car and takes the order with the it's it's that kind of thing. Um but there's no there's no actual drive. There's no menu board.

There's like two or three people that are outside. They walk up and down. So they take the order towards the rear. They try and make sure like there's, you know, enough cars so that by the time you hit the window, you know, there's no waiting. It's just you paid already, they took your payment, you just come up the window and boom, like you have your you have your coffee. So, okay. Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. Is there any kind of coverage for the people outside taking the order? I mean, are they just standing out there with like a tablet and all weather? I mean, there's a no cover.

Uh, there is an overhang in the front. Uh so there is and then obviously inside the building but yeah during the peak and the thing about this type of use is it really peaks for two hours you know once you get past that twohour rush you know my guess is you're not you're not going to be I guess my question is you have the cars numbered like one through whatever so are they taking the order back towards where that this part of the loop is or are they taking the order here? No, they take the order towards you know it depends on how busy it is to be honest from my understand again I'm not an operation person but um

you know so I'm just I'm read reading the notes that the franchisee gave us so um they do have out they have heavy jackets that they give out to their employees they have heaters um you know during inclement weather and again it well it depends on the peak the peak isn't for very long it's a two-hour peak you know that type of so they're outside during the comes comes with the job. Ain't no teenagers doing that. No, even in Arizona, it's really cold in the morning and they're out there. All right.

Um the only other question I have and David, I mean, obviously most of our for town center, we usually encourage the building to be more closer to the highway and right for town center and this obviously is not. So is our is that a variance that they're requiring for that or a waiver? that would be um that that would be a variance because there's a maximum of five feet is how far a building can be away. And so I I noted that again there was not a lot not a ton of detail on the plans because it's con conceptual but that was the one that we wanted to to highlight but yes that would be at least one bulk variance that we know of at this at this time.

So I don't know if that if you're aware of that or whatever that to address. Yeah, I mean the existing building is located where it's located and we're trying to reuse what's there, but we're mindful of that and we'll this is a sketch design for concept review. We're going to take all these comments back and take everything into consideration, see what we can do to uh see if there's any adjustments to locations to try to be more compatible.

We hear you 100%. I mean, it sounds like, you know, walkability is is is paramount here. Yeah. you know, having more crosswalks, having access from the front, having access to the rear. Um, you know, really creating that, you know, walkability and, you know, kids riding their bikes or whatever you ride up on your bike and that sort of thing. So, you know, maybe we'll do a bike rack outside like that that things like that. And the last thing I have, I know you talked about at the the urgent care center, you said you have a potential client for that. Is that a hospital-based or a private based? It'll be private AFC. AFC. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. I have a question also in regard to the stacking of the cars through the drive-thru. And I don't know the answer to this, David, maybe you can answer it. So, is that considered parking since they are not really it's not really a drive-thru? I don't know if that's something to consider about the parking ratio or not. It it would not it would not be considered parking. Uh this would just be considered uh part of the stacking. Okay. So it wouldn't it wouldn't it wouldn't just want to make sure they're not going to go over any ratio.

Yeah. So on the diagram they'll they'll show you know how many cars can stack but uh for the purpose of of calculations and certainly can defer to Aaron um you know we wouldn't consider that. Thanks.

Okay, I'm going to be the detractor here. This is because as it was noted about moving the building closer to 206, it's a downtown. So having a drive-thru and I'm not knocking what is it seven brew or whatever but I'm just questioning the location if this is supposed to be for downtown walkability as the chair already stated two multi- um multi-use developments going in there residential and all. So and it's going to be a 25 mph road at some point. Um, so that's going to be my first question is whether it really fits in this part of town. The other with the urgent care, I mean that's only 2200 square feet. Sounds like this might be more of just a doctor's office because there is an empty urgent care building in the southern part of 206 that Robert Wood Johnson has abandoned. So, um, so I'm not sure this is, you know, is it going to be an urgent care or more of a doctor's office perhaps? So, it would be an urgent care. I don't know if you've ever I've been at AFC. I was just there this weekend. My kid um actually it was good. I went my my son had pneumonia and they caught it. So, um you know, so you know, I think we're seeing urgent careers for you know, you know, for people like me, I don't like I can't bring my kids during the week a lot of times. Like I have to go during off off hours. I have to go on the weekends. So, it's um you know, I'll pay the extra 20 bucks just so I don't have to take off work. So, um, you know, it depends on what, you know, who's operating it, you know, that sort of thing. Um, you know,

yeah, it just it just seems small for an urgent care. So, I mean, they they've done the market analysis, you know, obviously we're not we're not here to tell them where to put their business, but they're Yeah, they're they're interested in the site as far as right now. I don't think they have any concrete leases or anything like that because I think we wanted to come here and, you know, find out if that's worth pursuing. So, okay. But I guess, you know, just kind of getting back, it just seems like, you know, a drive-thru with this amount of stacking and down, it seems a little contradictory to a downtown that we want walking, you know, businesses you can walk to and walk up. This doesn't have really a window. You're supposed to be driving. Yeah,

I I hear you 100%. This isn't when you read the the the master plan, you know, this isn't exactly what it envisions, but the reality of it is is that we're we're there's it's kind of meeting in the middle, right? It's it's utilizing existing an existing building um that's vacant right now. It's, you know, making sure, you know, there is we we'll make sure and we'll take steps to make sure it is walkable and and and provide more crosswalks and, you know, provide outdoor seating, provide bench, you know, those sort of thing. and and and and then also obviously provide, you know, a nice aesthetically looking building to make sure it fits in well. You maybe make it more residential feeling. Um, so it I I understand what you're saying. If you if you read the the hard letter of the law, you know, it doesn't fit exactly, but it also we also can take steps that like allow the both to exist and make it as pedestrian friendly as possible. I also think that we do need another urgent care. As he mentioned, the urgent care um south of that is empty and the other one that's in town, the only other one in town is constantly backed up.

Yeah. Um so this would be welcome, especially with apartments and multi-unit dwellings on either side of it, right? Uh it would be appreciated. Great. Have you also uh looked at any cross access um easement with neighboring properties? We have not gotten that far. Um I'd have to talk to my client about that as far as how that would work. Yeah, I understand the circulation may not, you know, warrant it, but it's something maybe to just look at the neighboring properties to see if there is a

can can they help could I don't know I don't know how I mean I would defer more to the planner. Do they all that that strip like adjacent properties? I'm assuming they could go to Town Center Drive and then access or the prop maybe the property to the north doesn't have access back. I can't tell. Yeah, maybe as long as that driveway does get cut into Town Center Drive, then you know that'll take care of that. Oh, great. The connectivity. Yeah. I just don't know if the one to the northeast has it looks like it does, but I

Yeah, it it looks like Town Center also has a a sidewalk on it, in which case there will be access to one of the neighboring developments and those side connect the sidewalk connectivity to that. So going out that back side, you might want to also lay out some some sidewalk on the on your plan. Absolutely. Yeah. When I put this together, it was kind of it was before I really dug into the planning to be completely honest. Um now that I read the planning, we we obviously can make make some changes and adjustments. So

if I may just add to that, uh many times there are are no existing service roads in these type of scenarios. Uh this is a situation in which there is uh town center drive was was put in prior to the town center uh concept district you know being put in place but since then uh through the master plan through the circulation plan uh town center drive is envisioned as basically a service road uh as it exists right now and also for it to continue all the way down potentially to Amwell and so that's where through the we that the other day,

right? And through those some of the developments that you referred to before, they would be contemplating Town Center Drive to be right to be coming to be coming through. Anything else? We have any other thoughts or Yeah. So, um, like I said, we don't we don't really have anything any action to take as a planning board, but you've heard we've given you the planning planning board light treatment, I think. Yeah. But, uh, no, it's always good to hear this these comments, especially before we hardline anything. Now, we can obviously

come back with something more creative and something that, you know, is more in line with what the board is and and the town is feeling.

Mr. Chairman, if I could just add something uh that goes a little bit more beyond than what I had included into my report, especially as I've as I've heard some of the testimony, and just something that I think would be beneficial for the applicant to consider, especially when they go to the zoning board of adjustment uh as they have to make their case and as they have to meet uh the criteria uh of a D1 variance. Um I think it's important uh I think what you're describing to some degree and again this is in my own words is that you're describing that the seven brew configuration is is is kind of like a transitional use uh in that it's not in a huge investment in terms of um like a big development getting placed you know uh whereas you would envision in the future Oh well, it would never really be practical to ever to to replace that in the near future. But through land use, there are are c certain types of uses like self- storage facilities that are, you know, one level. Uh there are some times smaller or any drive-throughs are kind of seen as oh well if the market changes or things change that's potentially development that could be replaced and uh whatever the next thing is to potentially replace it. I I think you already uh hit the part especially as you're trying to take advantage of an existing existing building that is there and you're trying to do something else to also make the property um to be able to go forward and and not be a vacant property. So I think I think it's important to to look at it uh potentially as like oh this is a transitional use to try to meet in the middle similar to what your what your testimony is. And but I think the big thing that when you go to the board of

adjustment that they're going to be looking at is is this uh a detriment to the master plan and and zone plan. And that's going to be something they're going to be very focused on and whoever is going to be your planner is going to have to provide that testimony and address all of that criteria uh the negative criteria. So, uh, just wanted to add that, um, I think it's a benefit for the applicant just to kind of be aware of that and to decide what they want to do. Do you have anything? I would agree with that. Thank you for that, Mr.

All right. Is there any final thoughts? not I'll I'll thank you for bringing this to our attention and taking what you can from our our advice and experience and appreciate you you looking to develop this site and uh bring something a little different.

We thank you for your time tonight and for the feedback that you've been able to give us. We recognize we have to go to the other board, but your feedback is very very helpful. Um, regardless of what board you're before here, all of your boards are knowledgeable individuals, residents, employees, uh, officials of the municipality. Everybody's been here for a while, sophisticated. I go to a lot of boards. I enjoy coming up here, even though it's a long ride for me. Um, but I do enjoy coming to either one of your boards because you do have your finger on the pulse of really what you're looking for here. Your feedback is very valuable to us and we thank you for your time. Even though you don't get to vote on anything tonight or maybe not at all on this application, we do thank you for the feedback you've been able to provide. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Um before we adjourn, are we our next next meeting is February 12th. Is there anything on the agenda? There there is nothing on the agenda. We would recommend uh cancelling it. I'll make a motion to cancel. Can I get a second? Huh? Do we need a roll call for that one? All in favor? All in favor? Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Well, I was going to do them one at a time.

Just like old times. Um well, our plan is to have a master plan subcommittee meeting. So those members that are are are on it um in place of the February 26th business meeting, our plan is to have the master No. So uh I'm going to defer to the master plan. Oh. Okay. So All right. Audles, that's fine. Mr. Saraj, would you like to amend your motion? I will amend my motion to also cancel the business meeting. Okay, we need a second. All right, second that. All right. Uh, all in favor? I I March.

See you in on March 5th, the next regular meeting. Motion to adjurnn. Sec motion to adjurnn. You can do them all. Do them all. Second. All in favor? One minute over.