City Council - workshop

Okay. Welcome back to our work meeting. We have two items left. We have 2.5 and 2.6. We'll go to 2.5, discussion for proposed city council policy and peace schedule for the Harriman Community Center.

John, will you pull up the policy first? And I'll just have you follow along and scroll, if you don't mind. As you all are aware, we have big ribbon cutting. We've opened the Harriman Community Center for some programs and activities. We haven't opened it up for rentals yet. Friends of Harriman have started scheduling yield notices much quieter here tonight because the orchestra's not downstairs practicing. They're actually over at the new building, or the old new building, practicing there, and they're very happy for that space and grateful for that space.

And if you know anybody that wants puzzles... Oh, yeah.

So similar to the field rental policy, we wanted to put together a policy that's very similar to our community room policy here at City Hall for the community center. And we do have some questions on the policy. We'll kind of go through it, and if you have any changes you'd like to see as we go through it. First is the name. what you want to call the room that people rent. We often refer to this room as community room, but it's also called Bidum Canyon, but everybody just calls it Bidum.

I'm just sure that's the color, but something, the Lauren Palmer, something.

I thought Council Member Anderson had an excellent suggestion.

Oh, do say.

So like Heritage Hall or Heritage Center or something like that.

Because heritage, I can't keep track of the names of these rooms.

These are named after geographic locations in the hills, which I discovered when I was out and saw White Hollow. And I'm like, oh, it's a real place. I would just strongly suggest not somebody's name. That ends up being... It's usually not touchy when you do it. It's touchy when you do it years later and somebody goes, hey, did you know they... Oh, that's true. That's totally explicit.

Do not name it after me. Like Mike Leavitt. Let's not name it. Let's keep going here. I like Heritage. I like Heritage Hall. What about the oak? Is it two oak trees?

The black locusts.

Black locusts.

They're just down the road.

Or the lion's room, or I don't know, something. It's an old city hall. It's the first home. What do we call it? Old City Hall.

That's what it's going to be called anyway.

That's like the Delta Center. It'll always be the Delta Center. The Heritage Room.

I'm not attached to it.

I like the HH.

That's good. Heritage Hall.

Isn't there building at BYU? Heritage Hall.

Well, those are... Heritage are dorms. Right, that's what I mean. There was Helaman Hall. There's also Helaman and Heritage. Yeah, there's New Heritage.

The New Heritage took where the old Deseret Towers were.

Now you're talking me off of Heritage.

What is this? Do we have to decide, like, right now? No. We're going to start rinsing it.

So we already used four heroin. That's this room. Okay, we'll come back to that in a little bit.

That's a lot of pressure right now.

I knew this was starting tonight, but still. There is a change in the building rental hours from how we typically rent things out here at City Hall. We do not rent this building during regular city business hours. So I extended the hours there from 2.10 a.m. to 10 p.m. instead of 5.30 to 10 p.m. So people can host daytime meetings or events or activities there. And then we do have these blackout dates. These are consistent with the other rental policies in the city.

Are we still doing single-day rentals? Or can we do half-day rentals over there? We're going to talk about that. Wendy... Never mind.

I'll do it later. What? I know we want to rent it, right? Yes. Well, I think you want to rent it. Right. 100% we want to rent it. But I guess I also would like to see... some openings during the day for the seniors? Oh, we will. To just even have open days?

As we establish programming, we'll come back with some of those.

We block out for the stuff we do. We'll block it. A lot of the seniors are like, we'd love to come one day. I don't think the city... I think we get caught up in what the city has to do.

Just for them to mingle and be social.

Just to be there. Just say it's open. It's a senior day and they just come. Again, they do a potluck.

live-for-sale program.

Those days, maybe it's open after 5.30 to rent, but I don't know if we pick a date. Do we reserve it? Do we put it aside for them?

You can do that if you like. Do they clean up after themselves?

I think they would need to... I think that would be...

They wouldn't move tables or chairs. We'd just leave some out, probably, right? But I think they need to...

I mean... We can figure out how to program it. If they want to do a specific day, that's...

It would still be programmed by us. We're not just going to open up a building. I think that would be a mess. But it would be some sort of light programming of... That's what I'm hearing. We'll just come up with something to block it out for that day.

I don't want to ask a lot of staff. I'm sensitive to that. We're always sensitive to that. I don't want any cost. I just want something easy to where they can show up. Maybe Teddy's there.

Let me do this. Let me talk to our event staff and see if they think they have a day that's better than others for that type of activity since they've been building those programs up. And then we'll bring that back when we bring the policy back for adoption. Does that sound agreeable?

The way I read this memo is that kind of the same thing as the field stuff is organized groups or something when you come in and rent it out for a specific purpose or whatever. It's not necessarily a community type of thing that we're involved in. This is a neighbor that is a writer and she has a writing group. She's always looking to rent a room. So if they want to have their meeting there and they all pitch in $10 to rent this room, is that more kind of what... Yeah, I think that's a great example of what this would be used for.

Somebody's 50th anniversary party.

I wouldn't recommend, obviously, to just, it's a free-for-all for everybody, right? We need to have some structure in how we do that. Okay, so thoughts on the dates, times, blackout dates.

I would just say maybe track how many people are asking for the blackout dates the first year and then see if you have employees who want to work. I don't want to make anyone work, but if someone wanted to, I don't know how you work that out.

The only thing, unless, if something happened, that's when an employee would be called out. Like their key card didn't work or they forgot to come get a key card or the powers, you know. There's not an employee there. There's not going to be an employee there. Okay.

Because I could see people wanting to use that space during Thanksgiving and Veterans Day and Memorial Day. Memorial Day would be tough because we're next door.

Well, we talked about that downstairs, too. Again, you're just the employee. You're bringing an employee.

Yeah, I wouldn't do it for this building, but for that one.

If somebody was willing to pay for the employee, you're still bringing an employee.

The issue is we're asking an employee to come in over a holiday. During Thanksgiving, because this group's having a family event, so we're going to pull one of our employees away from a family event so they can't.

And that's why I want to go off of Sunday. I'd like to stay away from Sundays, too.

I'm concerned about Sundays, but I know there's not a parking issue, but there could be if somebody else gets that building for a church.

And again, I think it's not a religious thing for me. I think area employees deserve a day that they don't need to worry about getting. I think it should be Monday through Saturday.

And maybe just keep track of that, too. Yeah. Like, I mean, if you have a lot of people who are, like, then, like, maybe we discuss it again in a year.

Okay. I think that's a great idea. This goes back to your question, Councilman, how does... We use... One reservation per day is just easy. Yeah. Well, for damage and for security and cleanup, yeah. And oftentimes when you have somebody making a reservation for a space like this... They're going to want set-up time and take-down time. And it just... Sometimes that runs over and runs long, and then the next party's trying to get in. It makes it easier for staff to do it that way. But we will do it after the council.

So it's a daily rental? Yeah.

And they don't have to... It is by hour, but we're only going to do one reservation a day. So they can rent four hours or a full day. Oh, okay. But just...

It's a four-hour minimum, right? Yeah, exactly.

so I would the only the only thing I was concerned about is it like the seniors wanted in the morning and then afternoon so I think having that set apart yeah exactly you're fine yep okay because do you have an employee who comes and checks at the end of the reservation to see you about damages yeah and so be easy just as easy to check at the end of the day or something and so twice in one day because we've had issues downstairs okay great

We have all the things that, there's no glitter, I'm sorry.

That is the best ever. I love that. Let's just get rid of, can we just do that period across the board?

They're not supposed to have glitter downstairs either. Look at the carpet. We can't get rid of it.

Okay, so let's go to the fee schedule, John.

And Trevor did a great job on this.

He's our fee schedule guru.

This is what staff is recommending for the fees that are being charged.

And Trevor, you can speak to how you got to those charges. Like with most of this, really similar methodologically to how we set up the community room. We looked at personnel operating costs and some of the capital and building replacement, that sort of thing. But yeah, it's lower than what we're showing over here. But yeah, those are the main components.

So it's $80 per hour, so you'd be the $360 a week there.

And then from the other information you included, it looked like this was just the right amount to cover costs, right? Yes. Which is great. Yeah. I think we're not making money off of it. We're not losing money off of it.

And it's still going to be one of the more affordable places to rent. Yeah, if you look at an event center.

And then you can bring in your own catering, your own, you know, if you're not required to use their catering or our case catering.

Is there a retainer or a hold on a credit card for damages or release, that kind of stuff, or is that... It's in that deposit. In the deposit, okay.

I think we talked about getting rid of the key deposit, though, didn't we? Did I make that up? I made that up. Okay.

That was one of your dreams you had.

Maybe. It's possible.

I was just trying to get them to give, because is this still a, is this a physical key for the building?

It's a key card. A key card? Okay, that's good. That's easy to program. Yep. Cool.

And if we want to use it for a sitting meeting, you just book it and it's just like the community room?

All of the reservations for this space will go through the events department just because they are planning, like, senior program events and things over there. So you can just go through, Lauren. I see.

Do you have a name for it yet? Is it kind of percolated as we've talked?

Or you can think about it and... Let me know. Give me some ideas, and I'll bring it to the next.

I like heritage, but I want heritage hall, because that would take me. The heritage room.

The heritage room at Old City Hall. You want it to be Old City Hall? We can. The old community. You tell me.

The old community. The old new. The new old community room. Our old conference room. The blue room and the red room. Yeah. I like heritage. I like heritage. I mean, there's a neighborhood nearby. The heritage room. Yep.

I just can't look at my AIC. I love it.

Heritage room.

Let's do it.

So the building's still going to be... Harriman Community Center.

Harriman Community Center. So the heritage room at the Harriman Community Center.

Okay, we good? Is that all you need from us on that?

Okay, we'll go to our final item tonight, 2.6, the CIP decision framework. Did any of you take the CIP quiz that our social media team book at? That was on there. It was the acronym. It was one of the acronym tests. Okay, Trevor.

It was a good test. It was cool.

It was to see what acronyms people knew.

Yes, I almost got all of them right.

I sent it to my books and they had an idea.

Please, please. I thought the UTA guys stole. Okay. Justin gave me two minutes to talk through my part. You said that's how long it takes. challenge accepted. What criteria would Council like staff to consider in preparation of the CIP recommendation? There's been feedback from the Council that we incorporate at the end of the process. This is your opportunity, really your opportunity, to let us know now as we begin rolling into the process, what you'd like us to consider as far as your priorities, your preferences, strategic direction and timing. I've got some examples here. of strategic priorities or ways you might be leaning. Really, when we're preparing the CIP, we consider funding constraints, we're considering bandwidth constraints, legal obligations, the things that are hard constraints against what we plan. But sometimes when we score projects, we come to a tie. We'd like to be able to lean back on what you're sharing with us now and say, oh, you know, given that these two basically match up, we'll go with... this one here because it's a repair and replace and that's kind of where Comtools was leaning when we initiated this process.

I'm going to put this on the new people, because we have new people, so probably explain to them what the current framework is. Not because I need to be told again what it is, but maybe you start there with what the framework is you're currently bringing it through. then we can weigh in on what we would think the next step is.

So I think Trevor hit it. It's a lot of staff. We're looking at what's required, agreements. Engineering had a specific formula when I got here, but we never seemed to actually use it for anything.

So there's a criterion that all of the departments go through when they put...

projects and it comes up with a we used to come up with an actual number I don't know if it's still coming to a number what are that criteria specifically it's one through five that you're rating them on depending on yeah so it's a very engineer I will say it's very kind of engineering and focused on the hard constraints here's this is that this is more of an opportunity again for council to give us some guidance, some guiding principles for us to consider as we're ranking them. The way I put it is often staff has a one plus one equals two, right? That's the answer. And council looks at it and says, yeah, one plus one equals two there, but it doesn't feel right. Or maybe that too, but I'd rather do the one and a half over here, not the two. And so we're just looking for something to help us understand get your perspective earlier so when we bring you the plan it's already had some filter of your priority on it and not just, here's what we think you should do.

I can give you the criteria that we used to use. Number one is safety, does the project mitigate a public safety risk? Number two, system need, how essential is the project to the overall system? Three, external funding. How much funding is coming from outside the city to help fund the project? Four, preservation. Does the project preserve existing infrastructure, kind of the repair and replace idea? And then number five, community enhancement. Does this project provide a community enhancement? And then they each have a weighted score to apply to the project.

Do we have any weight on projects that have been on the list longer? Not necessarily, no.

Now if we're trying to plan years out, they should be moving through. I think probably when this was originally came up, what I was told it was a spreadsheet this year. They would look at it, they would pick, and then the comments I heard back was that the next year the spreadsheet would be different. Sometimes projects that last time weren't on, they don't know whatever happened to them, so we tried to systematize it a little bit more. But some projects will sit out in the out years simply because there's no funding for it. And we just don't know how to bring it forward. We need to do something with it, but the cost is so high, it just sits there.

I think for me, I love the first priority, and that's super important, but also I think we have to consider what are we contractually obligated to do? like, we have to do this, and if we don't, then...

I think that's in our new criteria.

Right, so that's number one, and that doesn't go through the rating process. Yeah, because it's like, hey... It's a yes or no. Yeah, it's like, this is the top of the list, and like, are you going to do it or not? Yeah, so that was already on the top. It doesn't go through the rating process right now.

Trevor, you only took one minute and 20 seconds, by the way. So this is my question.

I'm super happy with how you organized the class compared to where it was for the reason you mentioned. It's hard to answer those questions without context. Can you guys kind of tell us what you're looking for?

So really, it's not like on the individual projects. But if you went back to those sample questions, are those Is there a question you would like us to ask, not about a specific project, but just about projects that we would filter it through and say, so, you know, is repair and replace more important to you or are building new things? And then if we came down to two projects that were similar, but they checked either side of that, one was new, one was repair and replace, and we knew council's preference, we would Move the one up.

It's just, I don't know, it's so hard for me to answer, going back, just experience going through this and then several iterations. Does repair and replace be more important than new capacity? Depends. What are we comparing? Which projects?

I don't know how to answer that. Do we have a lot of competing projects like that?

There's always more to do than we have money. And so we're just trying to find a way to get the priorities and concepts of council earlier into the process without having to go through every project with you. So when we bring them back, at least that initial kind of high level has already been done. And then when you're moving things, you're not thinking, well, but this, we want you to focus on citywide things, not localized. Again, that is a hard thing to ask. But if you have two things that cost the same, and you told us that, and we moved one up, oh, this, and then when you got it again, you'll say, yeah, but you would still have the opportunity to move it, but this would just be kind of, in general, you would think, yeah, we're trying to do... citywide stuff, things that benefit more than something else.

So I think, and Jared, you teed this up really nicely where you said it depends, and I agree with you. I think what we're after is help answer that next question? Depends on what? Yeah, so I was just thinking through a few examples.

So if it's roads, we pretty much know what's required. What we contractually obligated to do, this question to me would come down towards, okay, we have these, we have a maintenance schedule. We have a lot more roads into that maintenance schedule now. We're on a seven and 10 year, right, summary and chip seal. got too many too many lane miles now to stay on that schedule do we divert funds we have geared for setting new roads whatever that might be to that or do we change that schedule and refer well what's what's the new I can't think of the new road where that would be the case, because the developer would be involved in there more at the same time. Where I can see repair and replace versus new capacity, and same thing as water. Repair and replace, we don't have a choice. Because if the water, that line breaks, you don't have a choice. And new capacity, same thing. New construction. There's always a different element in that with developers. But repair and replace a playground versus putting in a new one, we repair and replace I mean, I think those types of things, right? So like the old splash pads for me, we've had this conversation, it turned out hundreds of thousands of dollars to repair and replace these old splash pads. Great for, to be a segment of that localized population, but we have an entire area, say Jackson Park, new area, zero parks within, I don't know how many miles radius. $500,000 into a repairing place. I think that sort of decision maybe fits that scenario where it's, council, what do you think about something like that? That's just something that comes to mind. I don't know how you systematize It really does depend on the specific issue.

Yeah, and thank you for that because I think that this is kind of our attempt to get somewhere between a full-on formula and just by the seat of our pants. There is some gut feel to this. There is a little bit of squish and so giving us anything at the outset to come back with and say, hey, based on what we've talked about, this is why to this other one, and this is not by any means us kind of dictating that this is why, you know, you said this one time, so we're putting it in and that's it. For one, that's not our role, that's yours. Ultimately, we bring the recommendation back. This is just in hopes that the recommendation is better fit to some of those more subjective pieces. And then two, we're hoping that this is not the only time we talk through again and again because in an earlier slide it was strategic direction and timing maybe there's a season of a our backlog is getting big we need to work maintenance we need to work repair and replace whereas okay we've caught up on that i don't know that there's a backlog that exists that's just theoretical backlog but where my brain goes is having the kind of

I mean, that seems to be working. It's when you come to a point where you're not sure and you need us to weigh in. I don't know that there's a formula we can give you without us talking because that does depend if it's coming down to what we ran it through these. We're not quite, we have money for this or this or we have money, we have this much money and there's these 10 projects that we that we think fit the criteria, but we can't do all of them. We'd like council to do them.

Let me put it in a different perspective. I think you're right, too. I look at your splash pad example. I think that probably would be the exception, honestly, because I'm sitting on this recreation board. I look at the county, what the county's dealing with. I mean, there's a $100 million bond right now, and $40 million is going towards deferred maintenance. I don't want to get in that boat where we're dealing with deferred maintenance. So I think we have to... I mean, to me, we're airing... I think our default should be repair and replace. Because, again, Carlos did make a good point that adding a new rec center is going to add cost. It's going to add operating costs. It's going to add... Yep, so... So I think adding more capacity, we talked about that. Every time we add something, we're adding staff. So I think we are still going to be adding stuff, but I think the priority moving forward is going to be repair and replace. And then that's where we'll come in and say, yeah, but this new capacity still needs to rise to the top. Something like Jackson Park will rise to the top, right? But that doesn't mean we're putting off. So I think that's a default, but again, new projects will still rise there, right? They're still going to be prioritized up there, too.

And I think there's something that you said about opportunity, too. We have access to grant money, or we have a partner that wants to come in and do a project. I think that has to be taken into consideration, too.

It's where the external funding piece comes into the scoring that we do, but it is a good point that we... we weigh that more heavily in multiple dimensions, not just when we score the projects as a committee.

And that's a moving target, too, because things pop up and it's like, hey, we have this opportunity for... Congressman Owens is a great example. That's 46 on the list, but we're... And that's a moving cost to see.

I don't know if it was last year or the year before, but it was like, here's three projects we can do with our money, or here's 15 that we could do with the same money. How do we, do you want to knock those 15? A lot of them are repair and replace, and some of those bigger ones that take more funds are small, you know, are good projects, but there's less quantity of them.

So I'm kind of stepping on repair and replace, because I think for infrastructure... Like Lauren said, that's the default. You can't even wear your robes, you can't even wear your water, you can't even work. This might be the scheduling, right? Right, that sort of thing. But when it crosses over into... They're important to me as well, but to what I consider more of the fun stuff, I mean, parks are definitely important, but I keep going back to the splash pad and just the 500 pounds a dollar number to repair it. When we look at some of those types of things, the repair and replace, we need to add to the criteria. Are we just repairing the place that's missing there? What is it going to cost to continue to repair and replace or operate it versus doing something different?

No, I 100% agree. That's why I said I think it's That'll come to us, right? That will then come to us and say, like, this does show repair and replace. Is that more valuable at this point? That's where we'll step in.

I just don't want to do that. Yep, we're just going to automatically, the council said repair and replace, so we're going to repair and replace the splash pad and the swing set. And I'll take that.

No, so this was hoped to guide us before, so earlier in the budget process, so then in the, I think what we've determined to do now is in the, because we're doing a biennial budget, so for two years, In the middle of it, when we're not doing the full budget, we would be focused on the capital discussion for that next budget. Because then we're not in the middle of trying to do the budget. We're talking about here's what we think it's going to look like. So when we get to the budget, when you're seeing it, you've already had your fingers on it quite a bit. It's not brand new. It may not be exactly what we've talked about because opportunities, things change. We're just trying to figure out how to get you as the ultimate policy makers and holders of the purse strings, how to get you involved a little earlier so that we're not trying to rush it. And I think we've done, Kyle and Trevor, they've done a great job of bringing stuff earlier. But we also find ourselves pinched at the end because it's like, oh, yeah, we've got to get this in and this. Because we're a growing city, which means our budget keeps getting more complex. And we're just trying to figure out how we can engage with the council earlier on. Because we did the last. You talked about it, but you probably... And I appreciate that you trust this, but it would feel better if you had a longer chance to look at it and really maybe talk amongst yourselves as, well, should we do that one or that? Because it's that it depends that we don't know.

It sounds like it's more of a, I can't put it this way, but here's your required courses. Here's the electives. Counsel, which of the electives are more important to you? It's actually a good one.

So I think what I'm taking out of this, maybe we won't do a formal, we'll work on it, and we'll just try, we'll try and bring it back in the middle with what we think, and you'll have more time as you look through it. If you go, Nathan, you're a bonehead, you missed this, then tell me so we know that I don't do that again. But I think hopefully we... You're definitely on the right track.

We're kind of in the middle.

I can't say how impressed and happy with what you did. I just... It is. I mean, I look at the size of our capital improvement plan, the things we're spending money on, and a lot of them are developer-driven. So we are really spending focus on there's financial capacity. There's also staff time capacity that we're looking at and we'll be showing you some projects we'd love to do. Gina Road is a great example. We kind of threw that in there because we had money. We really didn't have the staff time, so Bryce is very, pulled very thin on that one right now. And that's, I think that's one of the reasons why it's just also taking a little longer, is we just don't have somebody to run that project maybe the way it needed to be done. Justifying that. We don't know that, right? So I think we're going to start giving a score on those when you look at it, and when we bring it back in that midterm and say, well, can we do this one? you'll see that this is a really staff-heavy one. You can't get rid of like two staff-light ones and it won't work, right? We'll end up not doing a good job on it. People are just resting in. And that's what we're talking internally is how to come up with that scoring. So that really wasn't part of this, but I think we'll come back. You'll see these scores and then we can get some feedback then if you like it or don't like it. Trevor, the capital committee, which is Justin and Bryce, so some of you are already in here, they'll go through and then we'll bring it back.

But isn't this also so that you have some direction before you put a ton of staff time in to present options?

It's helpful to know if there are things that are really, really important to the council.

So that you don't waste your time doing a lot of research and background for something that's a low priority for the council.

In some ways it's easier to maybe allow us to categorize it better for you to be able to visualize and see the differences, or we might even be able to say, okay, we have $2 million that we can spend. The council has a high priority on repair and maintenance, so maybe let's try and put 40% of the funds towards those repair and replace projects and then split up the others. It just gives us a little better idea of what your priorities are so that we can categorize them better or maybe show you things that instead of a list of 100 things, we're showing you a list of 10 things to be able to choose from that we know are priorities. I like that.

I'm sure you spend a lot of time anticipating questions and gathering information. And so if you can do that on a smaller pool, I mean, I think it's a kickback.

I will say everything is becoming far more expensive than it used to be. So when we're talking about, well, how far does this go? It's a million dollars doesn't buy a whole lot anymore, which is crazy, but it...

I will say, too, sitting there with Senator Fillmore today, too, right? It was eye-opening for me to understand. Like, we didn't have a big infrastructure ask, right, for me. And, like, I think we're at this verge as a city right now. We're getting a lot of big projects underdone that this city's been waiting for for years, right? Your junipers, your... I mean, there's a lot of stuff we're getting wrapped up right now with Gina. It's like... After that, it's weird that I don't know what the next big project...

I mean, I know they're out there, but there's been so much... We're starting to get to 134, rebuilding 134.

It might not be this sexy new thing. It might be some nasty water project, right? It's like, well, we don't need the infrastructure to go build this, but... And we need the infrastructure money to repair all of this stuff, and we start looking a little bit more like Salt Lake City instead of... And it's kind of where I'm going.

I think we're going to have fewer projects, right? I think we're going to have probably some bigger ones, but probably fewer, because we're just knocking some of these... Because of what we put in place, because we've been so disciplined with our CIP, like, we're knocking off some big stuff right now, but residents are going to see a difference soon when all the projects we're finishing right now. That's how... Hats off to everybody in this room that's put the CIP in place, and

It's interesting because we're in the middle of the Parks Master Plan right now. It'll be coming to you in the next couple of months. But just seeing how few parks we have left to build, how few trails we have left to install. We are chambering change. From when I started 10 years ago, it's like,

We're going to go to a different phase in the city. That's where it naturally is going to go to the repair and replace, sustain the level of service. And we're going to have the big projects, the public works building.

We do have those two items that are kind of weighing. We have to figure out what to do public works-wise, you know. They need a bathroom. They need a bathroom up there. We are out of space for PD. I think one of the things that's probably more concerning than the space with PD is the fact that we don't have a true evidence area. Some of these things that I wish the council had talked about when they were deciding to come up, because they could have maybe held some of that initial increment back to the the tax to say, hey, we've got to build a facility to deal with this. But we can deal with it now. And I think the original plan to kind of stuff it over on that side doesn't make a lot of sense. But we're working through that. And I know we saw the original plan for the animal shelter was $6 million. We think we're going to do it for about $1.2 million. That's great. And then buy us 25 years. At some point, it will be too small. But I figure in 25 years, I might still be a resident. We'll deal with it.

Somebody will deal with it. When do you expect to bring those items as far as those? And I know you're working. But the reason why I ask, like, we talked about it for like a year and a half. So I think that's actually something we should talk at the retreat sometime and really figure out.

Because those are two huge items funding-wise. There are two different funding sources that would be tapped. So from a math perspective, there are two different sources. There is a political side to that that you all need to weigh in on and think about. How are you doing?

I just appreciate the long-range planning aspect because things are not going to get cheaper, right? And so anything that we can do to balance repair in place with long-range planning, thinking ahead, will help us out in the long run. I mean, we wish someone would have followed through with Gina Road 10 years ago or 20 years ago or however long it was. So we can do our best to think ahead and anticipate some of those kind of issues too.

I think you guys do a really good job with that. I don't know, I don't have the reference point that Jared has or anybody because I'm the newest. But to me as it's presented, it makes sense, right? And that's what it should just make sense. And there's going to be There's so much nuance into each one of those decisions, but you're providing us the information as far as, hey, this is this and this is that, and here's the pros and cons, and you guys have to make the decision. I feel like that I have the information to make the decision. I'm going to try to put it in perspective.

Think about this discussion versus the budget discussion that we were having in nearly every meeting for the first year and a half, two years that you were here. every single meeting there was a crisis because we found out about something else we were obligated to do that was overbooked. Like, we have a handle on it now.

I don't think anything exists anymore.

We were doing so well.

There's PTSD.

I can see Kyle like, no. Prior to that, I didn't feel like it was always... there's this opportunity or that opportunity and this developer and that like there was always just something that had to be done right now and right now and this is how we would have to wheel and deal it and think like the shells were just moving around all the time and we actually had things settled and somewhat predictable so for this to be our problem

This is the close of our meeting for this evening, so all I need is a motion to adjourn. I move to adjourn. Motion by Matt.

Second.

Second by Teddy. All in favor? Aye. Thank you, everybody.