Public Works Committee - Regular Meeting

Give it just a couple seconds. Not a problem.

Sorry. I can just Okay. Thank you. We're going to go ahead and call the meeting of uh our special call meeting of the public works committee for November 18th to order. Um, first of all, we need to if there's no objection, we'll go ahead and accept the agenda as is. Um, is there but before I say that, is there any additions or deletions to it? Hearing none, we'll move right along. Uh, now I need the now we're on to the minutes of the October 28th uh, 2025 meeting. I need a motion. So moved. Okay. Second.

All right. There's been a Well, I don't know. No, I'm going to second that because I got That's right. Okay. Um, any discussion on the minutes at all? Hearing none, is everybody ready to vote? All in favor signify by saying I. I. And all oppose or abstain?

Thank you. Um, on to citizens comments. Um, John, I know you've got some. Do you want to wait until we speak about the the street light at 1704? Sounds like a good thing.

Okay, we'll do that. That'd be good. And then I'll recognize you at that point. Other than that, we do not have any uh citizens. Um, we do have uh several alderman here tonight. It's good to see you. Well, if she's out and about now, but Alderman Sassy and Alderman Evans, appreciate you being here this evening. And um then one thing I do want to say at this point I um just for the record and also for the TV audience and and some of the alderman if they don't know um our really distinguished public works director Sarah Lock has decided to leave us and and we wish her well and we're going to miss you. I know that I am. I I always tried to not call you unless I really needed it. And I hope I did that for you. Um you've been an outstanding employee. I mean outstanding. And when I say that, I'm not just it's not the rhetoric. It's not for the people on here, not for the people on TV. I genuinely mean that with the bottom of my heart. Um I can remember when when you took the job. I I as I recall I gave you a bottle of wine I think and you were Do you remember that when I came in I gave you one?

She needed Jack Daniel. You probably needed tequila where gold or some or some homemade tequila from Mexico but I didn't have any. I drank it all. So, um, I'll have to give you another bottle of wine on your, you know, since I know what time much time we've got left. And so, we're going to use the living heck out of you. Um, so, um, but I just want to say I congratulate you on your new job and I think that's an outstanding move for you and your family and that's most important. I've always said your family is your most important. It's not this it's not this building here. It's it's what you have in your family and and yourself. And I think it's a great deal. And I wish you the best. And anything that the city or or myself or anybody in this room can do to help you, we will be there. Just all you got to do is call. So, thank you. Thank you.

Now, sadly, um after that, uh we're going to go on to ordinances, resolutions, and there's none on the agenda this evening, we're going to go right on to a trash collection update. And Sarah, this being your last meeting, it's all yours. Well, I would say it's boring, but it's the best news I think we've ever had. The reported misses for the last month were um 55. Wow, that's great. That is I've never seen I've never seen anything like I've never great news

of heard that 55 for for a town this big. That's really good. So um any other further sk discussion on the I didn't I had zero calls for the first time. So, I hope not. I've had zero calls before. I think we're going to do a poster size of it and then we're going to put it on the wall and say that's our goal for every month. Oh, wouldn't that be true? Sarah made it happen. So, whoever's next has to make it happen, right? That's right. Sleeping.

And whoever is next, uh, please just let us know by email or phone call and, uh, and we would appreciate that very much. Um, all right. on to the um traffic and parking committee and under that is the street light at stop 30 road. Again, I'm sorry that we didn't make a decision on that the last meeting. Um but there was some questions that needed to be asked and and unfortunately our one of our colleagues was missing, but that it was for a good cause and u and so but um they're back now. And so we've got now we're we're at full load and we can talk about it at this point. So um let's go ahead. Sarah, you want to give us a little background on that? What the issue is on the on the street light at 1704?

Yes. So um we had a request uh several months ago now for street lights and Spearpoint subdivision. Staff went ahead and did an assessment and made recommendations for locations that met our street lighting policy. We went through um a process. We sent out notification letters and gave time for comment. Um there were certain locations where the majority said no and so we brought that back to public works committee and discussed it and decided not to install in those locations. So four street lights were installed. Um there was one loaded at 1704 stop 30 road which is the intersection of Flint and Stop 30. Yes.

Which was installed and we received a complaint about that. They um the resident on the corner there was not uh happy about the light trespass that day. We had um CMC go out and put a a shield and a diffuser on there and um staff evaluated it, found that it did, you know, um downcast the light um adequately for what we we thought uh would work. And so, uh, the the resident is still not satisfied with the light and would like it to be removed. Okay. Um, all right. And before we open that up, John, do you have any additional thing that you want to say on that?

Uh, yeah. As the trees keep on dropping their leaves, it's pretty bright. Um, and then the shield that they installed is actually duct tape. So over time that will degrade and fall out and it'll be even worse than it is. So hopefully they did not charge all money for putting in duct tape. All right. U Thank you disappointing.

All right. Thank you. So he's here this evening for the record and to let him know that he didn't like the light. And so we'll go ahead now and open it up for the board's discussion. We're going to make a decision on it tonight. I I feel u because we we've uh prolonged the issue. We're we're very familiar with it. And I know John's getting tired of coming to public works. So, uh um we'll go ahead with it. So, the floor is open for that for a discussion on that.

Yeah. So, I had a question. Uh sorry I missed last last meeting. Um, the question I had because I drove by there and it didn't look that bad and the we there was a sideby-side comparison of the before and after and I know it's just duct tape, but the before was unacceptable. I I'll give you that. The after looked like it it did work. Um my concern is if we may be opening the gates here um for a lot of people to come in and complain and ask for changes and just keep coming and asking. Um I I think public works your group did the due diligence. Um went out of went out of their way made a correction.

Yes. And I think that correction is is good. And sometimes I feel like no matter what you do, it it won't be good. Okay. So again, sorry I missed last meeting. That's okay. I had a question. What did the traffic tell us a little bit about the traffic and parking committee and what they recommended in this situation? Who's on it? What do they look at and what was their recommendation? because that's I mean go ahead.

Yeah. So, uh traffic and parking is a staff level committee comprised of um public works, planning, fire and police. Um and we review requests related to our our streets and traffic. And so when we discussed this, we we our uh agreement was that the street light should remain, especially since South 30 Road is a collector and carries thousands of vehicles a day and it is at an intersection of two public streets and um after after the diffuser and the shield were installed, staff felt that that was adequate to address the light trespass and that um the benefit for the roadway users was was most important. And who's on the committee? Uh, public safety, right? The police and fire.

Police and fire. And how what did they how did they vote? It was unanimous. Unanimous to leave it. Yes. And And it's because with the light there, it may be easier for them to see the intersection and get in there. And u Yeah. Um, is there any other type of light fixture that would be better to focus the light toward the intersection and away from John's home? Is there another fixture that's better?

I don't think that there is a better option available through CMC that that's their street light that they install. I think that we had requested uh the lowest lumen available and that the diffuser and the shield was what they had to address the situation. I don't believe there was a different fixture available. And what about the the claim that it's just duct tape? Is that is that standard operating practice for a for a shield? I don't know of that.

I would have to I would have to talk to or contact a CMC. So, we can monitor that. If if we vote to to leave the light there, we can monitor that and I'm sure John will let us know if if it starts to peel off, we can go back and or have the electric company to replace it. Yes. Okay. Can I make one comment on the options for street lights? Um, this is actually a smaller street light than the typical cobra head style that CMC might use. the the one that they would typically use at an intersection like this would actually be kind of like an LED array. They're much larger and even brighter.

Is that like the one they installed recently at Arrowhead and Creek? I have not been out there to observe that one. Well, the one at Arahead was there, but it had burned out. I reported it. Did Did you report it to the maker company? Yes, we did. And I haven't checked to see if it's operating yet. uh an airhead, but there is a lot of area. Yeah, it's it's operating now. Okay. Okay. You know, with that new subdivision also right up from uh the water tower or down from the water tower on stop 30 that even more traffic is going to be going down stop 30.

Yeah. So, I I'm I'm I'm going to pay special attention to what the public safety or the parking and traffic committee did. Are they going to be installing lights at those the old Jones lane and the new Jones Lane then? That's I don't believe that's in the city county. That's in the county. So that would fall under the city's jury. So the new subdivision is that city or county. Okay. It's county. Okay. Yeah. Um, only thing that I would say is I'm we've never taken a poll out or anything like that on an is on an issue such as this. Is that correct? Or

that's correct. Especially where it meets the requirements. Requirements. Great.

Yeah. And that is our I mean that's my position on the city that we got uh because I've thought about I've been out there and looked at it. um I don't know that the light is is bright um enough to really make a change on that. So, um my my feeling is that we need to leave it the way that it is. And then I'm sorry for John. I really am because I know that's you know your house and your castle and but on something like this um my concern as as not only as an alderman but as the chairman of the committee that we need to ident you know protect the city in some form or fashion and the and the residents of not just one but as a whole as the subdivision and that's one of our goals in the city is to do that very thing and also to continue to put street lights out in the neighborhoods um especially dealing with um the crime and then also your public safety um issue with that as well. So, um, do we need to make do we need to make a motion or what do we need to do when it comes to this? Because I don't think we've ever had anything like this. And I'm not sure that you can make a negative motion. Uh, you can just make a motion and then nobody seconds it or you can second it and then have a vote and if it's denied, it's denied. So, um,

I'm guessing since the lights up, there would need to be a motion to remove it. Okay. Since it's already up and it's consistent with city policy and it's recommended unanimously by the traffic and safe parking committee. Okay. So, does that sound about

Yeah, that would be Is there a way to include your lanes on bottom? Well, just let this tell the staff and I'm sure John if if you see the tape starting to come down uh and you know maybe uh staff could look at you know just talk with the electric company to see is there a better shield but I don't I guess we just trust I'm sure John will let us know if if it starts coming down.

Okay. Well, okay. So, I need a motion if there is if there is one. And if there's not, that's fine, too, because that means it dies for a lack of a second and then there's no motion at all. So, the whole thing the the the light and the whole thing and we can continue to monitor it as well will die in the in the committee. So, um, I will need a motion if you get So, I'm not trying to pressure anybody by any means, but I'm just letting you know that's what the rule of of procedure is in the public works. Okay. So, no motion. Um, no motion. Okay. So, there has been no motion and we're just going to continue to monitor it as it is and and the light will remain at this point. Now, that doesn't mean in the future it can come back, you know, um that there's just, you know, you know, an godly amount of people that come forward and then we can try to re-evaluate it. But at this time, u the um the 1704 uh street light at stop 30 road dies for a lack of a second to remove the pole or the light. So that's what that's our decision at this public works committee meeting tonight and I will let the board of mayor and alderman know uh what we have come up with on on this on this issue at 1704 this evening when it comes up at the board at the end of the um board meeting. All right, thank you all for and and thank you John for help and for coming. I know it's un it's unfortunate but that's just how we feel about that. And uh it's no malice towards you or anyone. It's just we we have things that we look at not only individually but as a whole. And that's

that's how we feel about it. But we're going to continue to monitor it. And if you see that that the tape is coming apart, uh please call us and let us know where we can call the the company. And I think my main concern is is a light of my yard, not the street.

Yes, sir. We we understand that and we really genuinely do. But we've we've been there ourselves and we just u this is one of these things that we have a difference of opinion, but we're going to continue to monitor it and uh and if there's anything else that we can do to try to to change it, we will besides taking out the light and the pole because that's that's just not going to happen this evening with with the dying of the the motion. has died from lack of a second. So, but thank you and and keep us posted when you see um we're moving on to the u we've done the traffic and drapes traffic study. All right. Yes, the Drake go ahead with that. So after um the previous roundabout project at this intersection um did not move forward um it was decided that something needed to happen here. So we did um contract with a consultant to perform pretty detailed assessment

right

traffic study and to provide recommendations based on um flow and um safety through that area. And so that is what we're we're here to discuss tonight. This is the draft of their report. Um if you review through there, they did evaluate several different options. Um some of them took would result in significant rightway impact um much greater than what we had seen previously. The final concept, the preferred option that they that they recommended was a roundabout. Um it is kind of an expanded version of what was previously designed for this area. When they did um when they did projected volumes and um level of service analysis, they found that the single lane roundabout would not perform as well. I think it was near 2038, I think it was. um and they were looking for a 20-year horizon um from the a potential date of construction which I think they estimated to be 2028. So um what they have proposed as the preferred option is um pretty much a single lane roundabout but it does have a bypass an additional bypass lane for the southbound. Um and so that would help with that that flow of traffic down from long haul through Durham Farms as well.

Okay, questions from the committee. That's um you guys reviewed Jeff Sassy's option looks like. What was the finding on that? Yeah, that that one was actually um they they had initially considered that and did not do as detailed of an analysis on it because it was quickly dismissed for operational reasons as well as um additional impacts to um the stream I believe it was, but they did include some information. What page is that on? Got it.

That is 19 64. Okay. So, um the combining Anderson Road with Countryside Drive was number three on page 62 and that's where they kind of discuss um their findings for that. Um it was discussed as an option because it could reduce the number of intersections on Drake's Creek. Um, and they looked at it as a reverse curve, which is just a little bit different than uh what was originally considered previously.

That scenario, Anderson Road would be closed. Yes, the Anderson Road connection to Drake would be a stub and then it would it would tie into countryside. And then one consideration there of course is the additional coordination with the county and putting all of that traffic on a county road. Um that's one consideration. So Bris Creek Road and Road, is this the property I think uh Kimbro came in and wanted like $300,000 for a sliver of his yard? Yes.

Okay. Jeff, do you have any response on because I did put your your idea in here. Do you have any response on that? You don't have to, you know, have to say anything. Yeah. Uh my my only question is these the it sounded like their main reason for their um not recommending that one was because of the creek. Is that right? And because of the county road connection. Uh yes, that was part of it as well. Yes. And then additionally, it doesn't do that particular option doesn't do much for it would eliminate one of the access points, but it doesn't do much else to help the operation of Drake's Creek Road.

Um, and then the new proposed roundabout, is that on 63? Is that right? The final proposed is on 71. 71. 63 was the honorable mention for a single lane roundabout. Wonderful. Okay. And we did uh not share the information with the consultant about previous designs. So we just said, listen, don't don't look at our paths for boards. We want you to go with a clean slate. Yeah.

Um so they they just took a fresh look at it. We didn't offer any or advice. So this is what you get from them without looking at our previous reports. Okay. Yes. So is this roundabout it does not impact the stream then? Is that what I'm to understand? It does. Anything we do there the the bridge there is pretty narrow that box over. So anything we do there um will definitely have an impact to the stream. Um someone turning off of Avant Lane onto Drake's Creek. Is that right? Avant Lane. Sorry. Avant, that's my northwest pronunciation. I guess my Seattle pronunciation.

Yeah. Uh, so someone turning right, they would not be able to proceed around the roundabout, right? They would have to just continue south onto uh Drake Street Road. Is that my understanding? No, they could cross um they could cross that um the through lane, the southbound through lane. They would just be responsible for yielding to any traffic coming through. So they could enter the roundabout to go north if they needed to. Yeah. Anderson. Yes. Around Anderson. And one can I ask one more question?

Wait, please. Yes. Yes. Um going way back. Um up here I saw on page um page what is this 51 it's showing um past accidents in that in that area

and I'm seeing help me uh understand what are what exactly are the are the are the numbers numbers. Is that just relating to the numbers over here on the left where it's crash numbered or is it the number of crashes that happened in that area? That's a good question. It's the crash number. So, it's over it's over here corresponds with the table. Yeah, they had nine total crashes. Yes. So, that's correct.

Okay. And so I'm seeing three of them were actually on Anderson Road and only that that number three seems to be the well three and four really were both in 2021. Okay. Yeah, I think I understand this but uh so in five years or in that section where the roundabout would be there there has been four crashes, right? Three, four, two, and eight. Yeah. Yes. With one possib possibly five number nine. Number nine possibly be considered within that general area.

Okay. Thank you very much. That's all I have. Okay. Thank you. Um what kind of decision do we need to make on this study? I mean um what are or is is there any kind of decision that this committee has to make or exactly what are you at what is the the I don't why are we being asked it's just I think this is receiving file for tonight I would anticipate this would need to go to the next capital projects that's what I was going to ask that it would go it would for discussion could be made um proceed

does This roundabout change the requirement for property from the two property owners that complain. It probably will increase it a little bit. Yeah, it looks to me like it takes away the alias property though. Oh, on Countryside at least just visually, but I don't know if that's right. And I don't think it was on the ter what page was it that had like the uh the amount of the acreage that they would need. Don't know if this report specify the property just yet. Did you

wrong? That probably would be under um capital projects committee. that's when when it's discussed there that that information would be provided to that and not us but I could be mistaken. So this is really more of a conceptual layout when we had those areas previously that was based on a design. Oh okay that was you know more precise. Um this pretty much is just overlaying an aerial with what's proposed. Great. So I don't know that we would have that information just yet but

it would be So pretty much if the if the roundabouts you say it's a little bit more than what we originally looked at though so it's safe to say that probably it's going to require more land. I think it I think it will probably end up requiring more.

So that dubtail dots with one of my questions. This looks a lot more heavy duty than the one that we were looking at last time where he was pushed up out and away from the property owners. And the amount of property we needed to make that one happen was a lot better than what this looks like it appears to do. So, is that one an option that we can also include when we move forward? Because this looks very expensive. It looks like it's going to require more imminent domain or more property that we're going to need to negotiate with properties. I'm going to back up. Imminent domain is a tool. Um, we're not talking about taking somebody's home. The last time we had a problem with this solution, we were held almost extorted over a small piece of property and all we were asking for was a sliver of property to make it happen. And everybody heard imminent domain and just freaked out. Imminent domain is just a tool and it's a special tool to be used with property owners who want way more than what is required. That's my notes on that. Um I would like to see obviously this we paid money to have this this done. So, I'd like to see this move forward, but I'd also like to see that original option come back out, which had been beat up several times to accommodate as much as it could for the neighbors.

Okay. My only concern about that, and I I agree with you, Mike, um my concern is that this is this option here is more expensive just based on estimates. But my concern is do are we if we go with the first option that we looked at the first roundabout, is that just a band-aid and that that's not going to address the future like this one? Maybe. That's that's that's my thought is Yeah. Are are we doing something that in, you know, 5 10 years it's going to be obsolete and we need to do something else, right? We don't waste money. Yeah. Let's do it once and right.

Yeah. with Mike and I, we've we've talked about this. We've been out there and we've been stuck from Indian Lake to to Durham Farms. It's been 30 minutes. Yeah. Getting to the flag football fields was how rugby fields. Sorry. Well, what we then this committee, I guess, needs to move it or ask uh just for the record because that's important with this one because this is a a serious issue as well as all capital projects are. But we'll need a motion to forward this to the capital projects committee motion. Okay, I'll second, but I have sure something.

And now for now, we've got a motion on the floor has been properly seconded. Now, further discussion on the issue. Go ahead, Mr. So, uh, mayor, what are the options of moving something forward at this location? Uh, talked about capital projects. Uh, capital projects really, I think, envisions a monitoring of the projects. I don't know that it it envisions uh making recommendations, but maybe I'm wrong on that. Uh

anybody has the right to take an item to the board to ask for funding for us to move forward with it. I would have a hard time putting this in front of the 36 projects that we have on our 10-year plan. Um I think the most sensible route would ask this to be included. Is this on our 10ear plan? It is. is is update the 10-year plan with what the city cost would be because right now the this 10-year plan doesn't include the full cost of the city. So that would be my recommendation. Um and if some board member, most likely somebody board six wants to push for that, I think that's the right way to do that. I don't know that it has it would have a different outcome.

Yeah, that that was my concern. I do think that there are a couple options. One is legislation from an actual board member, an ordinance, you know, to bring forward the results of this study and and make a recommendation to the board. I would I I wouldn't carry that legislation unless I could get some co-sponsors that maybe were on the other side of this issue because there's no need for us to beat this subject up if if it's just going to fail again and stir up, you know, the community. I think it's needed. I was an advocate for it. I agree with Mike. The the the concept of imminent domain is a protection that's found in the Constitution, United States Constitution, that protects property owners. Uh a government can't come in and take property and decide we're going to give you a dollar for that property. a a a a a citizen has the right to go to court and let a a court adjudicate, you know, what's a fair amount for that, but the board decided not to do that. So, uh I mean, I I don't know what what capital projects could do on this because it's going to need legislation, isn't it? I think it's reasonable capital projects to ask the staff to re-evaluate this this ranking uh that's in our our our plan, our transportation plan, and to see where it gets moved to. It's probably not going to go up. It's not going to get closer to the top.

Okay. Right now it's number four, isn't it? Yeah.

I mean, yeah, it's pretty high now. I didn't know what number. I couldn't recall but I know was in the top probably well five top five I know Mark knows this but more and more traffic is coming in from uh long hall more and more traffic and it's it's clogging up people on Anderson people from Autumn Creek trying to go to the school they can't get out you know I mean they wait and wait and wait and what I'm afraid they're going to try to beat somebody and get hit. So, it's it's needed, but I I I I I don't know the mood of the board.

I agree with you on not wasting time. I felt like we were wasting time the last time. What what if we did like a small workshop with all the alderman just to talk through it and see if we can't move it off of some of the naysayers and kind of reason with both sides and well my my feeling really is I know this sounds terri well it doesn't sound terrible it's just the way politics no matter where you are whether it's in the city of Hendersonville or uh in Washington DC or in in Oregon or wherever in Oklahoma California there proceed procedurally there's many avenues that we could take right now I mean there's just ton and you know yeah and you guys know me I could sit here all night and talk about that stuff because I love the procedural issues is um but but I want to do what's best for everybody. I mean I can figure it we could I could say right now what we could do and um and bypass all that out of this committee because I think that the majority of the votes are here in this committee. We could as a as a committee move it instead of going into capital projects. I mean, we could move this and it never would come to the board of mayor and alderman, you know, the only time it would come up is just for information, you know, and then and then if somebody caught on to that, then they could bring it to the board. But a lot of times I just don't Yes, sir. Go ahead, Jessie.

If I may, u you know, we already have an adopted 10-year plan project and it's on there. Yeah. And so now we have another report identifying that that's appropriate for that area. And I think we could have a hundred reports done, but until we have 15 or 20 million to do multiple projects, it's maybe it's a moot point anyway. So I think the real traction on this is probably how we fund the projects. And I think that's an appropriate discussion for the budget when we do the budget. And at that point, if the board approves the funding for the projects, then you know, I think that's a pretty good indicator of whether of how those projects go forward. So,

I mean, I think the reports are pretty clear. It it would just be a funding issue, you know, at that point, which is a good discussion for us to have during the budget process. So from my perspective, from a staff perspective, I think we've done what we need to do and then we can tighten up budgets a little bit and present that to the board during the budget process for our next top couple of projects because we've completed some some are in the work. So we're going to have some type of update to give to the board on that transportation that 10-year transportation plan and this could be included in that. But then it really comes down to a funding issue of even if everyone okay it how do we pay for it?

What if we do it this way? we just make um an uh whether it's be affirmative or negative vote on on the on this motion to bring it at the budget and then u or with our budget workshop and mayor tell me if you disagree or do you don't have one thing or another you know it's whatever um we could do it at budget workshop I always appreciate the input I get at budget workshops Yeah. Uh that does what I get there. Um and the encouragement I get or the requests I get don't always make it into the actual budget presentation. Okay.

Um but I always appreciate input budgets. Thank you. I get it. I got it. Can I ask a quick question? Um it sounded like time was of the essence the last time this came through and it cost us. What did it cost us and is it something we can reapply for? It cost um the funding was through ARPA whip money. We I don't I don't think we can reapply for that. That was CO money. It was our How much was it? It was um the amount we were going to get toward the project was roughly two and a half million I think.

And a good portion money is actually spent on some projects in summary once we do them. You know, one of the things we could do is to the the workshop idea. We could we could have a capital projects committee meeting and have the consultant, who was the consultant that did this? RK and K

would they come to the committee and and give this report to the committee and let us ask questions? You know, Alderman Sassy might have some questions about his option. And so that would that would not be a workshop, but it would it would be an avenue where the alderman could come. We could discuss it. We'll even invite the neighbors, you know, because they'll be there for sure. Uh but, you know, we could get we could we could ask questions from the consultant. Not that you haven't, but we could dig a little deeper, I guess. Yes. Y'all like that? That's why.

Yeah. I mean, not because of that, but that's why I thought that it, you know, either we did it, we could procedurally move a different avenue or we could go into capital projects. That was one of my main what I just said earlier tonight that it should move into there or we could move it elsewhere. You know what you think, Mark? the best way to move forward on it. Um I I think having I think where we can put everything out on the table, get the questions answered. I like the idea of maybe um the consultant clarifying the different options and why they chose this one over some others just to kind of help us all with Okay. Well, they did look at at those things.

You sure can. All given

I was going to say as someone that voted no last time if I had the consultants here. One of my hang-ups for voting no was with all the opposition. That was the only thing that was presented to us. I didn't hear we explored this or we explored this and those things wouldn't work. To hear that from the people that this would not work. This is why we have to do this would make it easier for me to be a yes or no vote. If I hear we looked at every I travel that way. I know the congestion but it was hard to vote not knowing that this isn't going to work or that's not

and this is a traffic study and I know some of the members of the public said you didn't even do a traffic study. So we have now how much did this study cost? 68 I think 68,000 that's also unfortunate it is driven there to the rugby fields at 6 p.m. save 60 grand. So I think that would be helpful to everyone to hear what the consultant say about it.

Okay. Yeah. And then also Auburn good good one. I will say uh that I think you even mentioned that in a roundabout way when this was discussed up there and I commend you for that because you did a um as mo as usual your most of your decisions I don't not say made most but I would say virtually all of them are made you know in a clear and concise way and this was one I I recall because there was we don't and I commend you for what you've done it would be easier to say we took part of your land because this this this and this won't work. I hate your land was taken. However, we it affects thousands of people, right?

And we explored every other option and that won't work. That would make it easier, you know, to make a vote.

Well, it certainly will help us in our what what needs to what needs to happen one way or the other on it. Um, so what we should do then is just move this. Um, how how does this um, and every uh, the mayor and alderman here that can chime in? Well, as anyone here can chime in, but my suggestion would be is to go ahead and out of this committee ask for it to be moved to capital projects with the uh um what was the name of the company that we used?

RKK. with RKKM uh to come to uh the capital or ask them to if they would come to uh the u if this is okay with you that's fine capital projects committee and discuss this as a whole um because that will include alderman sassy's project as well right and they can discuss the whole you know what they did what you know what they started from and how they did it and how they arrived at the decision that they've got on this. Um, how does that

I think it's I think it's great and I think it's like Terry said, I think it's hearing the pros and the cons of each of the different things that they looked the alternatives they looked at and why it and how would they get to the conclusion? Yes. Yeah. I think that's helpful. Okay. You think of having it in there and Yes. would be well it would be that would be the worst. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. We wouldn't call it a a workshop on the roundabout. We would just say this is one item on the agenda. Right. Yeah. We give everyone those. Yes. Yes. Perfect.

All right. Um if there's no sense in making a motion, we can just agree to transfer it to public works. Unless someone wants a motion to be made, we can all unanimously vote or just unanimously support this idea to capital project. Let's do a motion. Okay. I don't You made the motion, didn't you? And I second to move it to Capital Projects. So, yeah, I I would like a motion. Okay. So, motion's been go ahead and make a motion again. I make a motion to move it to capital project. All right. Second. Yeah. Okay. There's been a proper motion and proper second. Is there any discussion? Do you need the motion repeated, Sarah? No, I haven't. Okay.

Oh, that's We sure are going to miss you there. Unless there has pulled her resation. Yeah. And make a motion. She immediately pulls her resignation along with that in that motion. All right. Uh any further discussion with them and they also have RNS or what they're RK rather. Uh I was thinking of

something years ago of RNS. I you had a real good person that I used to work with at RNS Printing in Nashville. I don't even think they're around, but they were very and just had that RNS on my mind, I guess. Um there's and have them come here and discuss, you know, the whole works on how what they arrived of and of course that committee can ask all the questions that needs to be. All right. And any further discussion on the motion hearing? None. Is everyone ready to vote on the motion? All in favor of the motion signify by saying I. I. All oppose. It passes unanimously and we take it to public uh capital projects rather for discussion. So, um do you think, let me ask you, I'm putting you on the spot there, sir, and I apologize for that. Do you think it'll be at the first of the year before Christmas?

Well, I've got to get with Jesse because I don't know the transition of a new of a new public works director. Okay. So, I I'll have to wait till I get some direction from that. All right. just let us know then when you're prepared to to carry it forward. All right. Thank you so much. Uh great discussion. Um now we're on to Creekwood. It's a October traffic and parking committee again. And now we're on to the Creekwood subdivision. That's on page um 126 12 I mean 125 and 126.

I bookmarked it earlier. Um so this was uh this is one that we've discussed a couple of times previously. Um the last time we discussed this, uh there was a petition that had been received um to provide pavement markings for traffic calming, but they wanted them the petition was requesting that they be provided with um four feet on either side, right,

and 9 foot drive lanes. And so this committee requested that it go back to traffic and parking committee for review of that option. Um and so we did review that, evaluate that and um traffic and parking committee did not voted not to to proceed with the 9 ft. Um it's just perceived that's too that's too narrow. Um and so after further discussions there was um a lot of interest unanimous decision to um we could revise it to two 10 foot drive lanes with three feet or just whatever it called out to be based on I believe it's 26 ft there. So, what originally was proposed were two 10-ft drive lanes with um four feet on the one side and then the remainder on the other. After discussion, traffic and parking committee did recommend that be revived to double yellow center line in the center of the available pavement and go lanes. Have we done that in other locations? A three foot instead of a 4 foot.

That has been variable. The remaining width outside of the driveways has been variable just depending on what the existing pavement width is. Okay. And if if we vote for it, I would like to suggest that we put you know where the culprit is on Creekwood. Yes. It's been painted. I know. But there are signs that we put at some culverts indicating you know you know what I'm talking about the marker. Yes. I I would like for us to put a marker there for that location. We can coordinate with the gas company. I think that they typically install those. Oh, do they? I think I don't know that the city ever.

Are you looking for a gas marker or like an object marker like the the di the diagonal black and yellow stripes? Yeah, that's the one that I've seen. the diagonal stripes just to let people know, you know, I've seen them on all the other culvers culverts. Yeah. So, yes, we we could do that. Well, that sounds kind of like a win-win to me to me. Yeah.

So, I'll make a motion unless Well, I'll make a motion then discussion, but I'll make a motion to take the recommendation to maintain 10 foot lanes and on each side a three-foot walkway uh with the addition of a marker at the culvert. Uh I don't think Yeah. So, that that's my motion. Okay. There's Okay. Excuse me. There's been a motion, a proper second. Any further discussion on the motion? Does anybody need the motion uh repeated? If none, everybody ready to vote? All in favor of the oneway question? Okay, go ahead.

Do does there need to be any markings at the intersection of Creekwood and Mark, what's the name of the road there? Orchard Valley. Orchard Valley. You know what I'm talking about. The street markers, you know, like a a crossing. Is there enough traffic to justify those markings at that intersection do with crosswalk? Yes. You typically wouldn't install crosswalk markings without having sidewalk or curb lane. Okay. So that would not be re that two question on on public.

Thank you. Um does anyone everybody ready to vote? Does anybody need the motion repeated? Hearing nine. All in favor of the motion signify by saying I. Uh I'll oppose. It passes unanimously. Now my question, Mr. Chairman, if if Mr. If if the citizen is here tonight that Yes. Would it be appropriate after he speaks to ask the mayor for you to give a report that we voted tonight to do that?

Yeah, you can. That would you can do that. It's up to the mayor's discretion really uh because the to do to do that um because the agenda has already procedurally now um okay if he was you know bicycling and I was uh mayor for the mayor for the night I would say sure go I would say yeah go ahead and do it but it's up to him to do the to say yes or no or you can say is it going to be in the report and that report is tonight, then he would he would make that person or people stay until the end of the report to discuss it. So, okay.

Um, all right. If he's out, well, you could, but he probably knowing I know he would like to have it on record. Okay, I'm ready to vote. Yeah. Okay. All in favor? No, not at all. Those those are all good questions. Uh they really are. Um all in favor of the motion signify by saying I. All oppose. It passes unanimously. And I think we just did that anyways. But we'll go on now to the um facilities assessment and plan.

Last meeting we discussed um the graph that had been provided and um there were some recommendations or requests for changes and those haven't been implemented. We did adjust the weights, okay,

a little bit to u more emphasis risk on um safety and work conditions and then uh that did decrease um it was the size and capacity a little bit. Uh and it actually did not change the the ranking of those facilities but I agree that that reflected uh the appropriate priority. So we did make that change. Uh we did in this draft that you have before you uh we did also add add the recreation and storage facilities as discussed last time which included the park facilities and the Mont Haven and um archive storage that we have through public works.

Okay. Do what do we need to do with this? Um is this a final draft here? Is this it? We have a couple of outstanding things that we're working, but we did want to go ahead presented to obtain any comments or feedback as we work toward the finalized draft. We would anticipate coming back probably the next meeting as a resolution. Okay. So, the Drake Scrape Shop, we we are we're moving on that, aren't we? So, that's that's kind of funded. Is it is it funded? Yes.

Okay. So, uh I guess the number one priority of this is the police annex and it was estimated $20 million. Sarah, is that what staff suggested? Just the annex replacing the annex would be. Yes. So that was just based on um the square footage cost based on other police stations that have been constructed and just the annex. Yeah, based on the square footage and so then I think it was another 25 million maybe for the other portion police station maybe a little more. Say 30 here. 30. So 50 total. The annex is the old city hall building, right?

That's right. Remind me to tell you guys a story about that about that building. But Halloween has passed. I'm sure it's got I've heard that there are some skid more ghosts that

there probably is. But no, um, Bobby Fruenthal and I, he called me and I went up there and it was strange, but I'll have to tell you the story because see, as a child, the upstairs where the public works building was, and I don't know what they have up there now, I used to play with cars and trucks as a child up there on the very top. and uh and the you know where the old retirement center I'm really shouldn't say this as a politician but I'll tell you there was a barn there was a retirement center park place there was a barn there and a bunch of friends that were in the community we used to jump over the Shannon property and run you know run to the barn and play in the barn which we really shouldn't have been doing and then there was a there was a caretaker there that used to cuss us out and stuff when we were in there. It's real. That was always funny because we would cuss him back, you know, and then run because we were we were scared we were going to get in trouble. But that actually happened. But uh Yeah.

So So Jesse, let me ask. Okay. I'm waiting. I'm waiting for Yeah, I got you. Yeah. Start turning 360. My head starts to turn around. Go ahead. So I'm sorry, sir. Go ahead. So the the police annex and the police main building is the staff thinking that it needs that needs to be done all at once. Yeah. Why is it separate? It's not the annex is I mean it it it doesn't it number one on every category. Yes sir. No we have conditions and everything.

We didn't lump them together as one. We separated those two buildings and the you know they're they're separate buildings so you could you could tackle those projects separately.

So I think the only way we're going to pay for it is a bond. So I think I think that's a step that the finance committee needs to consider. You know how how so so I would I mean I'd like to see us move on the annex. I don't know how and why, but or I know why, but I think finance has got to figure out a way to do it and bring it to the board that hey, this is how we could do it. And it may be issuing a $20 million bond. But, okay, that's all I have to say about that. Um, I have a question. the police, the annex is overcrowded with police um uses because the police station itself is not big enough. So, I don't understand how fixing the annex but not resolving the police headquarters solves any of the the problems. To me, you need to have a police headquarters that can fit all of the functions of the police and not have them out in some annex somewhere or some separate building. I don't know why we would spend $20 million to fix the annex and then still be stuck with a police headquarters that's way too small and way too cold.

So, that'd be a $50 million bond. Yeah. 50 million. Do

you have a site picked out or your eye on a site? I think, if I may interject, I think both sides have good points on this really, and I'm in favor of both of them, but I think before it even gets to finance, we probably are going to have to have a meeting, a joint meeting between public safety and public works. And then um after that, then it'll go at its normal course, which I think would be capital projects and finance. uh then they might have to have a I mean I don't know I'm not chairman of the any of those committees uh then they would have a joint meeting um and to discuss it because that's a real serious issue because I agree with that. I don't know why you'd want to put it there and then you're going to you're going to possibly move the the police building somewhere else you know eventually. So you'd want to kind of put it all together into a package. Now, would you agree with that? Would you agree with that?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a proper thing. But, um, so I don't know. Um, maybe I can get uh together with Alderwoman, our alderman. I don't know what she comes by. Actually, I've never even asked. I've always called her alderman good uh and ask her how she feels about that and and then we could take take issue with it. Um, are we under any under the gun on this at all in terms of It's our highest priority building. So, I think it I'll talk to I'll talk to her this evening and see what we can do. Um, I agree with that.

Okay. No, there's no objection. Okay. With that, um, on back to our facilities draft, I'll talk to her this evening. Um and then uh may probably my just depending on her I'll make an announcement tonight but what we're going to do um there's no decision on this until we get the final draft on the facilities right um assessment this is okay yes

right all right hearing on go ahead I'm sorry I just want to say I'm excited to see this uh I know Jesse you talked about it for a while um I think this is a tool that I've used in other areas and I love having all the facilities um ascertained um reviewed and put into an order some some items on the maintenance side it looks like u like we have roofing you know we talked about the hey one year we need to have this much money to take care of the high priority items even though we're not going to do a full restoration of that project. We still need to have money on year one for roofing. These are our high priorities. Year two, we need to budget this much, come back and do these facilities in kind of an order based on need. Are you going to include that too or?

Yeah, I think that this just highlights the need for the funding. I think more than anything gives us a plan, but the funding is going to be the crucial element on how we address these. So this helps identify funding priorities. Um from there it's a board decision on how much we fund but we can do both where we tackle new projects and we do repair simultaneously. Love it. Thanks for doing this.

Yeah, just a one final comment then we'll move on to the world famous life synchronization. Um but I I think really in the future this is going to be a a very you know we've done all the hard work. This is going to be a good tool for future board of mayor and aldermans after after we're gone. Uh this will be a good tool for them to use because um it's been needed for a long time to see. Um I was trying to think the other night when the last one that we've ever had and can't remember that we've we've had them but I don't know that this detail and I I think that's what we've been needing and I don't know why we never did go into times were different back then and Mr. Chairman, uh, this was done at the staff level, correct?

We didn't pay a consortant. There was no gas. So, the the quality of this of this report is excellent. The the waiting of the categories, the the review. So, I know this took the staff a lot of time and I want to thank public works for their hard work. I I will interject to that Casey has done a lot of the heavy go, not only just with the beautiful But a lot of the narratives and pictures and leg work, there's been a lot of behind the scenes work that Casey has contributed to. We're gonna have to put Casey, we're gonna have to put you in public works. What do you think?

I'm honored. I started I had no idea I would learn about all these things that I know about. And now to the point I'm like, "Hey, what about this? What about that?" There you go. Yeah. That's so funny. Well, um, anytime you want to interject us, man, just let me know. No, I'm good. because I do appreciate your hard work, too. We really got a great staff in the community in the our community. Did the drone shot. There we go. Way to go, man. The only license person in the city. Yeah. Going to be missing.

Okay, let's go to the world famous light synchronization project and I'll turn it over to Sarah on that one. I did hope to have good news tonight, but um with the government just reopening, I know still that sounds we're still waiting for the obligation of those funds to move to construction. Okay, break that down. Okay, so we're still waiting waiting. I would like to pass along because I got a text from a constituent that um she's wanting to know is there anything can be done about the red light at Indian Lake in Saundersville. She lives on the um Sam side. So coming from Whitten

and she says it's every night trying to get out of there and coming toward Indian Lake. Can we check that and make sure that it's synchronized way it needs to be because people are backing up on the roundabout. Yeah, we'll definitely check that. Thank you. All right. Um now we're on to other business. Does anybody have any other business to discuss? So, can you give us a report on the transition uh or the search for you know what what's the plan? Yeah, for I'll do it tonight at moment as well. Never mind then. Never mind. Okay.

Yeah, we can because I I have a couple of items that I need to discuss. But we'll go ahead and talk about that. Uh you can go ahead and start it off. Um so on social media there's it's not going away. um the boardwalk. I think there's some fencing that's put up that blocks the the city. Yeah. And I know we got some pricing and stuff like that. Um and it's a tough pill to swallow, but I think we need to start treating that as a capital project. Uh and something to really start seriously looking.

Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, I I agree because I've had calls on it myself and and rightfully so because it is actually our ward ward one and two really uh has you know we have a lot of people back in and they and they would like to see something change on that. So, um, let's put that go ahead and put that on the next agenda to to to discuss as a as a line item, you know, up here at the top and so we can discuss. I I would imagine it's going to have to go to capital projects because of the pricing, but I think that if we start doing it, I think is that okay with you? I think just put it on there where we can really sit down and talk about it.

Okay. um would be the the the proper thing to do about that. Um we only got one bid. Yes. You think it would be fruitful to put it out for bid again? Um we could I don't know that it would net a different result as far as um respondents think it's possible the price. We're competing with a lot heavy construction industry. So I'm surprised you got one bid. What was the amount again? It's roughly 280. Yeah. Um I think it's important enough to

Well, I think so for our for that and I don't mind I'm not trying to be but it's our peninsula. I think, you know, as long as we can look at it, you know, a way that we should, you know, and and and see if there's anything that really actually because I, you know, I think I even said it at the last meeting, that's a tough pill to swallow, $280,000 for that. I mean, it really is for the city as a whole. Um, even though I would be for it, uh, obviously and I know that, uh, Alderman Martin probably would too, and I know my colleague and, uh, would be for it as well, Alderman Burgdorf. But, uh, but for the city as a whole and ws four and five and three and six, I could see how they, you know, 280 is a lot. So hopefully it would go down by now. I don't know how the construction, you know, in our society is right now. It's rough everywhere. Um, and I've got a feeling it's going to even get worse. But what do I know?

We live on Neptune Drive. Budget question. Uh, Jeff, uh, are are we going to use up all the PIP buddy this fiscal year? Um, no, there will be some left over, but it's not not much. Uh, if I recall correctly, uh, Mayor, do you remember exactly? Um, we've got some engineer. So, we most of that is going good portion is going to engineering. Um, some of that may not be complete. Some of it may not be uh uh may not be on our purchase order by the time we get there. Um, so we I think it's always likely especially when it comes to pit money. And I didn't know if the projections are exceeding. They are.

They are. So far, our sales taxes exceeded projections the budget. So that might be an area that could fund it the PIP. Um, would GNRC kick in anything? No, it's not expanding any it it's it's not expanding any any ability to add traffic. Well, I bet if we put Andy Gilly on it, we

All right. Make that a note. We'll put Andy on at our next meeting. motion to send it to parks.

Yeah, there we go. And then the under other business I have uh been requested by the homeowners association in Harbortown um to make sure that they would go by that our our people and roads would go by and and you'll they um tracing them will know he'll know what I'm talking about. They need to uh to paint the yellow striping on the um the the when you turn in to uh Harbortown, they have a little um you know where what do you call it? Not an inlet, but um you know where trees and Oh, that center island.

Yeah. It's a strip of island there. But they do because people are hitting that at night because you can't see it. But if they have that the yellow paint um reflective paint, that would be the best ideal thing. Um I've talked about it before, but um since I did get an actual, you know, them requesting it, you know, I've got to do my diligence as an alderman to put it out and it's necessary because I drove by and looked on that. Uh, one other thing and I don't know um and the reason why I say all this is because they had their homeowners association meeting there and I was there and um representing the city and and then as an alderman too. But I've uh I've been so busy with I've been to a a massive amount of homeowners association meetings because this is when they traditionally all through the city have them is right at here in the fall or when it gets at the end of the year. And uh I've been so tired because I've been at all of them. But it's really interesting. A lot of them have the same uh problems as one of the other. But I do have a question. I don't know. Uh they had me ask a question about or they didn't ask me about it cuz I couldn't have told them. I you know there are things that I just don't you know believe it or not there's things I don't know. So they they have a construction uh container. I drove by and looked at it uh that's on the street. I don't know if that's legal or not. It doesn't really have anything to do with public works, but I was going to ask for your guidance. Do I need to call the police or do I need to go to the public safety? Because I don't know how the garbage men get around it. I mean, it's very

Yeah. Um I would contact police. Okay. Because usually those things are you they're allowed and I I do know this. They're allowed either on your driveway or your front yard because it's construction on their house, but I don't know if they're putting I mean if that's allowed on a on a street. No, I I wouldn't think that it is to be out on the street. Yeah. And so, um, you know, and I hate to be the bearer of the bad news, you know, with my contingents, all those want to tell them great things about Ward One, but that is a that's an issue there. Yeah.

Because I, you know, have driven by there twice now. And it's and it's still saying, okay, I I'll know what to do now. All right. Can you Can we find them? I'm not sure how police. Yes, sir. Go ahead.

The bridge. I was just wondering if we uh had a status update on the stop 30 um Durks Creek Road intersection and where we're at with that. Now, it's a long-term project, but seems like it's nothing's been happening there recently. So, I was just wondering if there was what the status on that was. Um, currently Piedmont is they're relocating their um, infrastructure through the intersection and then probably around the time they finish up in a couple months, HUD will be starting their relocation. Um, as far as the city side of that, there's one outstanding track to be closed. Um, we were supposed to have a status meeting today. Um, the consultant was unavailable. So, we do, it's been rescheduled for Thursday. we'll get an update on um that last track and it may be the property owner has agreed it's actually a lean holder

and so it may that may move to condemnation to close that up and and finish it out and then um we're also working on the environmental permitting and so um because there is a stream alteration on the northeast corner right um as well as the work and that's 100% a city project right or no it's funded through um local programs. It well the funds are administered through local programs. So city managed we manage it and it is our project but it's not fully 8020 8020. That's right. 8020 looks like Pedmont might be finished because it's it's all cleaned up and everything. So I don't know what's it's

they've put hay down and moved all the equipment. They've paved over. So looks like they're maybe I haven't seen it's two days now that I haven't seen any um And could we just look at the Drake's Creek that who the the light for the on-ramp to westbound 386 from Drake's Creek Road? Is that state or is that city? City. It is city. This is from my own experience. We waited at that light for for four minutes

waiting for it to turn green and there was no traffic coming through where it was green. So if we just look at that and maybe the timing needs to be altered a bit. Yeah, you can look at that. Part of it um will be the flow through the whole corridor though because that entire corridor is coordinated. Um and so they do part of that is what they call like gating. So they hold the signals until they release them all at one time and then you flush through the entire corridor. Okay. So, but he can look at that to see if there were any efficiencies to be found. You're talking about heading south on Drake's Creek to turn onto that to loop around.

Yeah, that that also heading south on Indian Lake and also the traffic coming off of 386 to go on uh Yeah, everyone was stopped there for quite a while. So, but that would make sense um for that reason. A lot to consider there. Yeah, this may need to be independent since you do have that highway split and a lot of traffic is going on off on the other side of it. Maybe it makes sense to have that one as independent town though. The same thing happens actually at Maple Road or I'm sorry, Maple Drive North and Indian Lake. You'll get held there sometimes to to start the corridor and there's like why am I sitting here? It's kind of same concept happens, but so you can have the coordinated sequence all the way through heading northbound.

Okay. So, thanks Jeff for bringing it up. When can we put that project out for bid? The DS Creek stop 30. It's still at least a few months away. I'm concerned because it's the first time I've heard about an environmental study and I permitting the environmental permits. The environmental studies are all done and they've accepted them. The studies are done. Yes, but you have to have a permit for the stream relocation and then also the work in Drikes Creek. And so they they normally can't start that process till they get toward the end right away. Um because if there are any changes, it's that's a huge effort to redo.

If only we didn't find any salamanders or something. Um, I don't know that I know that off hand, but I wouldn't be surprised all upstream of there there are

I know there's been a ward one pterodactyl that's been nestled in in the city of Hendersonville, but uh there I think now with it being colder that they've gone south, so they're they're going. All right, just teasing there. a little uh humor in our endeavor in public works committee. Um is there any further discussion? We'll go ahead and if there's not um Casey, what do you think? Uh do you have any questions or anything? All right. Good. All right. How about you, Jess? You You're good. All right, buddy. All right. Well, u this is your last one.

It is. Yeah. One of the before we close. Yeah. because he's usually here. But I don't know if you've heard, but Andy's mother has been diagnosed with acute leukemia. Nancy, so remember her in your prayers. I sure will. Family, she starts chemotherapy, I think, this week. So that's his heart and her heart, too. I know he's he's sort of like the thing I that I enjoy about Andy is he's sort of like I was with mom, with my mother. They're very close together. They're very close. and I was very close to my mom. Um, and I just ate that. Yeah, bless his heart.

But thank you for telling us that. I did not know that. And I hope everything goes well with it. But I will keep we will all keep her in our prayers committees. Is there any further discussion? We'll go ahead and call the meeting. Motion to adjourn. And there's been a motion to adjourn at 651.