Public Safety Committee - Regular Meeting

I'd like to call the January 14 2025 public safety meeting to order do I have a motion to accept the agenda so second all in favor I do I have a motion to approve the December 10th meeting minutes was one one thing to point out um it's says that Chief Bush was present and then also says that he was absent I noticed that and iig you can't be both he can't do both I was here we'll correct that we will correct that good catch with that correction to I have approval of the December 10th meting minutes motion to approve second all in favor I before we get started under ordinance say it resolutions I would just like to tell Chief Bush and the henders cille fire department were very sorry for the loss of Captain dallenbach and our thoughts and prayers are with all of you and if you need anything you'll let us know absolutely thank you okay under ordinances and resolutions uh number one ordinance 20 20251 Hendersonville Municipal Code title 4 chapter 3 section 433 approving repositioning of the field training responsibilities within the Hendersonville Police Department chief Jones would you like to update us and give us your synopsis of that yes ma'am so we have a number of well let me back up previously the master patrol officer position which is tasked with their so their primary responsibility is the

training of all new officers and what we ran into this time we've been talking about this program previously our training division is constantly looking at ways to make training better for our new officers and they came up with a program and it presented it to me to utilize a field training officer program instead of the master control officer program and so we kind of looked at that looked at what other agencies were doing and we definitely feel like this is beneficial to the police department and to the city so what we've run into over time is sometimes we have uh Master Patrol officers that initially they want to be trainers and then over time they maybe get a little bit burned out they want to do something different but because it's a promotion they're still getting paid to train new officers whether they're training or not so uh this program what it does is we we identify people who are interested in performing the training function and then making sure that they have the proper uh training to do that and a position to be able to do that and then what we do is utilize them as training officers for new off for our new officers they only get paid while they're training uh so we feel like that financially is beneficial to the city in that they're only being paid while they're doing that job when they don't have a traine they make their normal pay salary and one of the things that we notice other agencies were doing and I feel like again that that's beneficial for the city is as opposed to an increase in Pay we just provide them for every day or every shift that they have a trainee they get an hour of overtime because what we found is a lot of our employees would prefer to take that even instead of pay from the city they would rather take that as comp time which will allow them to take time off at a later

time that's convenient to them so by doing that we save paying out that extra money and allow them to take the time off when it's convenient for them so and it gives us a greater opportunity to have more people designated as training officers so in a training cycle you may have several fto training people and several that are not actually assigned a traine at that time and then if we have a trainer that goes out because they're sick or because of military leave or because of some other issue we have other people ready to to step in and do that job whereas with the no program we don't just have somebody waiting to step into that position if we have a problem uh what brought this up to this point is uh we had not promoted anyone to fill an No Vacancy due to resignation and then one of our other mpos was actually uh called up to active duty on in the military and is deployed overseas so we don't have him here and we had more trainees coming out of the recruit school then we had trainers available so we had to go ahead and try to get this program going our plan is we don't want to take a promotion away from anybody that currently has it we don't feel like that's a fair thing to do but we will not continue to promote new people into the master patrol officer program so through promotion or attrition that program will eventually go away so it will be a cost savings it will it will we we feel like it will definitely because the cost to pay an even if we paid them an hour of overtime for every shift that they have a trainee that's less than paying them for the entire year of doing the job when they don't have a traine the entire year how long will it take to phase out

the npos that are currently there for in that position that's that's a little more difficult to to determine because involes retirement I well it would involve either uh a promotion if they promote to a new position so uh our npos are eligible to test for the position of Corporal or detective so it depends on the openings we have and whether they have an interest in that area if they're promoted we just wouldn't fill that slot with another no or if somebody does who's an no chooses to resign or retire then we would not fill that with another Mo and how many MOS do we have now uh boy I knew that number too I believe we're authorized 11 mpos and we currently have eight okay so the other question I have was on the fto getting the hour overtime if they decide to take this pay as opposed to leave how does that affect the payroll um so we have an overtime budget already um and we so in our South line based on so because we have an no position that we're not paying right now because we have not promoted another no that's a significant savings and then while the no that we have is deployed on military duty we're not paying his salary at all at this point so just between those two that's going to fully cover the that hour of overtime for any of our current fto for the trainees that are in training and those current npos that are still here and working are still expected to train new officers they're not going to be I mean we're not going to relieve them of that responsibility because they still hold the position if they choose that they

don't want to train anymore they can voluntarily demote we're just not going to take it away from them okay as some other reason so um it's hard to really say how long would take them to get from oted or you know what changes might occur yeah right right so any other questions comments do I have a motion I have motion to send this to buma with a positive recommendation I agree all in favor I second I motion that's okay I think I forgot to ask for a motion motion pass okay now on to resolution 20251 resolution to apply for the staffing for adequate fire and emergency response known as a safer Grant through feema do I have a motion you have to have a motion to discuss it first yes so move okay all in favor okay then we can discuss so this is our annual safer Grant yes ma'am that we need because we had an email with the time and when you're short when you're not short all of that yall looked at that I have looked at that okay it's a little confusing but it's a it's a lot of information well which I had a question about that can I goe question on the pie charts part of the confusion I was looking at and i' go back but for some reason on the pie charts flip the one and I can show you the colors

change now do you want this one well that one the colors the one I had had different colors that's probably on there's quite a few of those in there as well because so one of the things that I looked at was vacation time on one chart for one month was almost going say pink and the next month was red and then you go backup page and the vacation time was yellow so it took me a while to figure that out yeah those are all the same colors here's an example 42.3% is vacation which is I'm gonna call teal and up here it's green and something else is teal sickle is teal that could just be Valerie the different month yeah it's just different months identify them as different colors in different months I don't want to speak on her behalf uh of how they come up with that color code but I'm assuming that that is because it's a different month it has nothing to do it's not consistent like you're say consistent from month to month change the colors on you right yeah okay so yeah that may be confusing for me but I figured out and what the charts are telling us is um especially with this bar chart is we are meeting our goals but just barely yes sir okay yes sir it takes 29 folks I mean I know there was U I saw some of that or all of that there was discussion about 27 or 29 27 is not counting the two supervisors that we have division Chief and Battalion Chief and those are two positions that are necessary so they count for Staffing and basically with 37 people is what every shift is supposed to have but the last year we've kind of been hit pretty hard with f mlaas folks leaving retiring out whatever and the academy only being twice a year We R about six months seven people down we gained seven in the academy uh that just graduated

and we're already going to be four down until the academy starts the mayor and Jesse have agreed we got a guy retiring in June we know of that we're already prepping those five folks to get in the academy in February and that should have us back up to full staff but that will not be till May of 2025 that will be completely full again and and I've got two guys on different shifts that are out on FMLA right now and another one that's fixing to go out I can't find it right at the but you carried over vacation that people couldn't take from last year to this year 2400 hours I think that's correct the mayor signed quite a few of those forms uh this year because of that he understands that they know the the limitations for that they're supposed to use it by March 31st uh we have talked to the division Chiefs about getting those folks in the books first so that time will not be uh uh taken back from them it just kind of limits us so like when you have 37 people then you got two out on FMLA SE shift was the hardest hit shift this last year he was down four or five people for like several months and what happens is folks have turned in vacation previously and they may have a trip planned and they planned for that we not going to pull vacation that will kill morale if you start telling people oh no you got to Council you're already paid for vacation they're losing money it will create a a morale issue so it it's cut them short for those months for FMLA injuries things that we don't can't predict for and so uh then you got two Kelly days on every day so that number of 37 drops to 35 automatically so Kelly day is um under FSA law they went to a 27 day cycle the city did many years ago uh and that 12-hour Kelly day is to keep from paying

scheduled overtime so if we had those folks uh on shift they would count as part as 37 but because they have to take that 12 hours every month we lose people every month due to Kelly days and a lot of months or a lot of days of the month are two or three people on Kelly days and that hurt Staffing numbers then you we have some new folks and we have recommendation well not recommendations requirements for to go to training so then you put those folks in training you've got the Kelly days you're really reducing the opportunity for folks to be able to take off when will you hear about this grant well we're waiting for the uh the letter to come out I mean the notification to come out that they're accepting them we're ready to go this is again just asking for permission to apply when it involves money we'll have to come back and say six nine whatever whatever we land on and are you is Bulma willing to to spend that money after the three-year Mark if that's what they stipulate go ahead and so if we just if we say we want nine will they get and if you're approved for it will they give us the nine or could they come back and say we're only going to approve three or six typically whatever you ask for we've never had a reduction I know in 2018 19 uh was the last one that we got and I think we got 18 or 19 Folks at once okay so we went from 103 to 122 okay uh and they've never reduced the number they've never reduced correct and and I think um I think we've talked about this before but I forgotten if if they do give us six or nine or whatever that number may be and we decide that we don't need that many we don't have to use all they give us to either you don't but you're there's a risk with that so if they say we were going to wward you with 12 or we're going to W you nine whatever and you say well we only want six just remember we got to have

multiples of three because we have three shifts so if you knocked it to two that would only help two shifts it wouldn't help the other shift but yes if you if we got accepted for 9 12 whatever the number would be if you said well we only want half of that six of that then there's the possibility they come back and say we we wanted to give you 12 you don't want your 12 we're going to pull it away from you or we're not going to give it to you at all okay and what's the time frame usually when do you hear I mean it's so they're going to start hopefully going to open that up in February it's usually about four months so it would probably be summer maybe when is it February March April May June yes ma'am the latest hopefully now that's the federal government and you know we're fixing go through a change so maybe it'll be quicker could be you never know right absolutely and what month is the second Academy of the year uh so they do one in February and they do one in August in August okay yes ma'am now we interviewed folks today for those five positions that we've got permission to put in the academy the academy right now officially has three spots reserved for us two are on standby so that means if somebody else drops out we can put those two in but we did find out that two of the folks that had applied with us uh one of them is working currently with the city of Portland um then we have another guy that has 64 hour which is required for volunteer that's not adequate hours for us to feel comfortable for them to turn them out on the company we would start them on the same date as the other three and send them those three to the academy we would keep the other two on board I would push for our staff to train them to challenge the firefighter one test and then get with the state and either go use the weekend and do a live burn weekend or get with gulet full or Gallatin and get checked off at one of their facilities uh and not wait till August to get those folks

ready those other two so let me ask you this if let's say I'm just throwing things out there if you were to get if we do the safer Grant and you were to get turned down and you found out in June if we had a a rapid meeting to approve more before could you get more done like for Budget year to get new firefight so after today we exhausted our current eligibility list so in the spring soon as the weather breaks we're going to do another hiring so you'll have so we'll have an eligible list could you get him in that Academy that quick all I got to do is whatever number we decide that you want is tell them names and I'll say this but they require a name but we don't until we interview them we don't know who that's going to be so we've been giving them my name his name Gabe's name and then we say oh wait a minute we changed we're not hiring that folks we're hiring so and so when we give them the the real name yeah we we go back and tell them you've been on the job for 30 years you got to go back to the academy and prove that you know what you're doing but it's it's it's it's how they want to play the game I mean it's all we can do because if we don't reserve the spots then we're not guaranteed the spots why me well that mean he had to go too yeah so any questions yes let me ask you this so in three years this grants good for three years yes sir to fund the number of firefighters we pick who picks up number 9 or 12 that's decided with Bowman and input based off that information that was sent out which that information there looks like we're six people short at least at least nine would P or buffer that 12 would be a great number or 12 would be an ideal number I I said

when we open station Seven that we should hire 12 okay so with that said it also says in three years then the city has fund salaries of these people being nine or 12 nine and at the rate of 100,000 a year that's what we need to estimate and so we yes sir we estimated because we don't want to cut short right we don't leave money out that the city has to Fork up right so we we're trying to factor in everything if they have a college education they come to us with ENT all those stiens things that are included in that pay that $100,000 covers all that salaries benefits the whole nine yards so we shoot High we might hire somebody that is going to make 70 right depending on what degree they have if they have an associates and so that money we just turn around and say hey we we're not using that the federal go just takes that back okay um but the city has to figure out how to fund after that three years if that's if that's what they do yes sir after those first three years if they decide to do three years no cost 100% then the city has a decision to make to either continue to carry that on or obviously tell those folks they're laid off or gone so that would be this the other side of the coin is sorry we're not funding it if the board choose to back to short fire short being short of firefighter yes sir okay has that ever happened no that would be terrible yes any more questions do I have a motion I would motion that we send it to Bulma with a positive recommendation do you have a number you want to put with I feel like Nine's a good number it's in between what we got to have in ideal this is the reason I say that I

mean I obviously I'm over the years I've learned not to argue if you say nine um I I would always like to have 12 right I'm going to be honest I'm not going to be dishonest uh but if you folks land on nine then we'll take the nine and we will certainly make that work what are your thoughts on the number Jenna I like nine um I think think n with nine being our recommendation of number us so give me a motion make a motion we send it to Bulma with a positive recommendation to hire nine firefighters with I say using the safer Grant using the safer all in favor motion passes thank you any other items anybody else have anything else do I have a motion motion to adjourn all in favor I I made a uh note to try to talk to Jesse and Val about