Hendersonville Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

here. I'll call this meeting to order. Appreciate all of you being here tonight. We waited just for you, Barry. Hi, Barry. [laughter] All right, I'll open up tonight with a prayer. Please, if everybody will bow. Dear Lord, thank you so very much for all of our blessings. Thank you for watching over us and protecting us. Help us tonight to make very good decisions for this city. Uh let us do what's right for it. Um Lord, watch over us and protect us and help us to do what's right for one another as citizens. and uh and watch us over these holiday seasons that are upcoming during November and protect all of us. All of this we pray in your name. Amen. Amen.

All right. Next roll call, please. Aliser here. Evans here. Hardwick here. [snorts] Hasty here. Kerr here. Wessel here. Martin here. Silkwood here. Slatterie here. That makes nine present. All right. Thank you very much. Next is public comments. Agenda items only. No one signed up. Uh I'll ask, was anybody intending to speak or just overlooked it? All right, we'll move on to the next acceptance of the agenda. Everybody look below. You only have one thing on the consent agenda. Any issues with it? If not, I'll accept a motion. Second.

Got a motion. Got a second. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right. Thank you. Next on the agenda is the minutes from October 7th. I'm sure everybody's had time to look at that. Do I have a motion to accept? So move. Do I have a I got a motion and a second? Uh, everybody in favor say I. I. Anybody opposed? All right. One abstension. All right. Next consent agenda. South View Professional Plaza lot number three site plan owner John Evans location 1209 Sunundersville Road parcel 146004.20

he is actually not current owner of that May I speak? [laughter] I think you better

I've got to tell a little story. Several years ago, before I was on the planning commission, uh my wife told me that if you want to control the piece of property next to you, the best thing you can do is buy it. So, in South View subdivision, I work with the Tennessee Risk Management Trust and I worked with them to get them to move there, but I bought the lot next door because I wanted to make sure that we had the right neighbors. So, uh, a few weeks ago, I sold that lot, uh, to another gentleman who's, uh, here tonight to make this presentation. And, uh, that lot is not mine at this point. I don't know how it got my name on it, but it's not mine. Uh, but obviously I was satisfied with the neighbor we found. So, uh, leave that as it is.

Very good. Thank you for clearing it up. Lead planning staff is Timothy Whitten. Timothy, thank you chairman. Um, and we will uh just a note, we'll correct that in the actual uh record. I think it was it still in the PVA and that's where the the name came up, but we'll we'll correct that. That's no problem. Thank you.

Uh, so this is um the uh third lot in the South View Professional Plaza, which is total of four lots. Third lot to develop zoned office plan development. This will be a singlestory 7,483 ft office building. 32 parking spaces. Uh building architecture and materials should fit in nicely with the uh the other two buildings that are that are out there. All right. Any questions from the commissioners? Do we have the applicant up? Would you like to stand up and speak?

[laughter] Uh Drew Ferguson, Greenwood Design. Uh we agreed to all staff comments here to answer any questions. All right. Anybody up here for questions? I have a question. Go ahead. Just one. Hi. Thank you for being here and and thank you for continuing to develop the land and taking it off of John's hands. Just curious if 23 parking spaces are required, why you're going ahead and filling out with 32. You know, I distinctly remember, this is less for you and and more for my my um my colleagues. I distinctly remember Jay Ritterbach, our economic development director, talking about the overping that we see in some of these projects. So, I'm just curious why you're you're increasing this by almost 50%.

Uh we're doing it so that we can, you know, obviously have parking along the sidewalk there. Um [clears throat] I think just to kind of fill out that space. Okay. All right. Thank you. And I I would point out there is a master plan over all these these four lots and that master plan did show this this uh parking layout. So it is in conformance with that. Okay. Thank you. Any other commissioners have questions, comments? All right. Thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion.

Okay. I have a motion. A motion with all staff comments, please. Somebody Okay. And I have a second over here. All right. We'll do this one by electronic vote. [clears throat] Motion pass with ads is one abstain. [laughter]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

All right. Next, development plans. We have the first one up is TBN Millennia Cottages final development plan. owner Trilogy Asset Investments Incorporated. Location is 645 East Main Street, parcel 158A a 008. Okay. And the lead planning is Timothy and Zachary. Which one's taking this one? Timothy, go ahead, Tim. So this is the final development plan for uh for TBN Music City which is which is the followup to the preliminary development plan which received approvals uh from the city last year. Um so this uh this final development plan does have some changes from that PDP. Um and the um the highlights of those changes are they they have eliminated the assisted the large assisted living facility which is the the brown building at the top of the image there which had 80 assisted living units in it. They've eliminated that. They've expanded the independent living cottages uh from from 90 to 110 units. So, 55 cottages, 110 units of independent living cottages. Um, they're replacing the old barn with a new storage facility, which will be under 5,000 square feet. Um, they've reduced the two office out parcels uh along Main Street to just one at the corner of Codell and East Maine. They've removed the chapel, added a small cafe at the pickle ball courts. Um they've increased the length of the sidewalks along affirmed to give uh the Bluegrass Downs and Winston Hills residences uh

direct pedestrian access to the uh to First Baptist Church. Um they are requesting a a waiver. Um the zoning ordinance does not allow garages to be counted towards required parking uh for for town houses town homes and duplexes. Uh TBN is requesting that to be waved uh for the for the independent living cottages and to allow one space in the garage and one in the driveway for unit types E A through E. Um so unit F which is the last remaining unit it does they do provide two two spaces uh in each driveway. So those units are okay but they [clears throat] need the waiver for units A through E um to allow be uh to be allowed to count the garage towards their required parking. Um, and should this get approved tonight, the next step in the process is site plan approval, which is where they come before you with a much m much more detailed uh plan. Um, have more detailed building elevations and uh parking layouts and things like that. That's all I've got.

All right, Commissioner Slatterie, I see you're in the queue. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Timothy, units A through E, how many of the 110 units being proposed? What does that represent? A through E. So that would be a 100 units. Oh. Oh, last 10 would be unit F. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Martin, I was just going to see if um Keith Free could articulate why our language, you know, doesn't include the garage space.

Yes. Um, the reason that it doesn't, uh, uh, several years ago, uh, we allowed garage space, uh, on anything, you know, that counted toward the, uh, two parking spaces. Uh but one of the things that we realized is that uh on a lot of different developments uh areas were being underparked. Uh so we're having residential neighborhoods that were being underparked and especially when we had uh a higher density development, you know, you ended up with people parking in the street and there really wasn't really meant for uh for parking in the street and that type of thing. So, what we did is uh for single family homes and for town homes, we said, "Hey, you know, if you've got uh carports or garages, uh we'd love for you to have that, but we're not going to count that uh toward the twocar uh parking requirement." And that's where that came up. And then in the actual table where it talks about um the parking requirements and says how many you've got to have and how it's got to be calculated. Independent living itself doesn't necessarily require uh the uh um the spaces in the garage not to be counted. But since this is an independent living facility uh that is made up of duplexes, then it does because duplexes do have this requirement. Therefore, that's why they're asking if this was all single family detached uh and it was independent living, it'd be the it' run into the same thing. Uh the only type of independent living that wouldn't require a waiver uh for this uh would be actually like apartments that were independent living. Uh then you could have uh garages for those and those would count toward the parking spaces. So, so it was it was done uh initially for those things. uh so that we reduce the amount of kind of bleed over of cars parking in the streets. And a lot of a

lot of folks I'm not necessarily saying this this might be a little different since it's a 55 and older community uh but you know typically when someone has a onecar garage or even a twocar garage a lot of people store stuff in there and uh you know they park outside the garage and so that's what we see quite a bit. I don't know that this would be the case here, but that's one of the reasons uh for that. Thank you, Commissioner Slutter.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, to I think to tag on to Commissioner Martin's comments, I have some some concerns that garages are storage space on property rather than car garages. And we know that to be true in a lot of cases, but my my concern is amplified by what I can see here, and this is not a real detailed plan, but some of these driveways look very short. And I I just question in these big in this big curving horseshoe section and with these units being duplexes and and very um densely built on the property that the road is going to be overwhelmed with cars. I I I have a concern with the waiver for those reasons.

Okay. Commissioner or I'm sorry, chairman Brent, not chairman, director. Yeah. I got a promotion. Yeah. Uh no you didn't [laughter]

uh with the uh depth. So whenever we have a parking space and we're counting that as a parking space uh in these types of situations uh this is going to require a site plan a detailed site plan later. And part of what we'll do is make sure on the site plan that's init that eventually is approved that there's at least 20 foot uh from the front of the garage to the back of the sidewalk. Uh because if you just allow 18 foot, you know, what's going to happen is everybody's going to have a bigger vehicle and they're going to be parked over the sidewalk. And especially in a community like this, uh we definitely don't want to impede the the sidewalk uh pathway uh with vehicles. So we'll, you know, whatever uh whatever if it's um two spaces outside or one space outside, uh we'll we'll make sure that there's the ample room, you know, for that uh in that in that process. So, do we make that a requirement of the waiver? How how do we ensure if we offer the waiver today before we see the final design plan? How do we ensure that that will be the case?

Yeah, you wouldn't need to put a rider on that because that's just baked into our zoning ordinance requirements. So, when they come back to you to do a a detailed site plan and get that approved, that's all going to have to be on there. Okay. uh even if it means, oh, we thought we could fit that in there conceptually, but now we actually can't, uh, then you'd have to look at maybe reducing the number of units uh or in some of the areas just to make that work. Thank you. Okay. You're welcome, Commissioner Hasty. Um, I guess I'd ask questions to the staff. Is nobody here representing the development? Is there someone here? Yes, there are. Can they come? Well, few questions.

Yeah, we we can bring them right up. Are they private streets? Yes, these these are private streets. Come on up. That would be uh that would be constructed within the development. And actually, I think that main road that goes through there, I think that's actually a private street, too, isn't it? Yes, it is private. Music Village Boulevard. Music City Boulevard. That's private street. Yeah. Go ahead and introduce yourself. Okay. Mark Boyd with Kinley Horn. Uh Kevin Glade, architect with TI. Okay, go ahead, Charles. These are rental units or are they for sale units? Rentals. Rental units.

Rental. Rentals. Um the first time we saw this and every time until now, one of the huge selling points for this development was assisted living. And now it's just been wiped out, right?

Well, the Yeah. Yes. These we've taken that the high density assisted living out because we have an arrangement with the uh unit the building down the street run by Vitality. So they have a lot of assisted living. And so this independent living will be but we have services all the way up to you know assisted living available to the residents.

Yeah. I I I can see that your amenity package seems to cater to what you define a senior living community. Uh, but a 55 and older development when Mr. Free mentioned it, that's the first time I've heard that mentioned as being a 55 plus development.

What you have here, in my opinion, you've called it a senior living. You've called it even in your documents an assisted independent living and you also called it independent living. though. But in my opinion, reality, what you have is independent living with assistance. Yeah. Part of the the program, the way we run the units is you you'll you can add a little louder. I have a hard time hearing.

Oh, we can add on. In other words, you can have assistance for we have laundry services and then medication um administration. So there you can add on services to independent living. So yes, it's independent, but we look at the average age of these units as like 80 years old. So the people will be it's 55 plus, but it goes all the way up to but so that what I'm saying is the services that we add on that's where it becomes assisted living. But it's not labeled assisted living. That that's not a stategoed assisted living. Correct.

No, it's an independent living with assistance services available. Well, you I think you've done a good job on saving the Twitty development, but uh what you have here is nothing more than a high density independent living facility in my opinion. And if you can't rent it to 55 plus and it's vacant and somebody 20 wants to rent it, I guarantee you the investors are going to rent it. So what you have is an independent living facility in my opinion and I think it should be designed with parking and everything else accordingly. You know just like any other apartment complex in town append independent living with some extra amenities that cater to senior living and that's great but it's an independent living facility in my opinion. maybe clarify that or go ahead.

Yeah, I would just point out um the definition in our zoning ordinance for independent living is that it's 55 or older. That's that is baked into the the that particular use category is it's 55 or older a and this yeah and this particular and I understand all the nuance with kind of the naming and everything uh but what this is and the way it's functioning uh we're we're treating it from a zoning perspective uh as independent living. So there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. It's just but that's you know that's what it is. So it's a independent living with uh with various alleart services. That's that's correct.

That's basically you know what it is but it still meets our definition of uh of independent independent living but right [clears throat] yeah it's always been independent living but like we said there are services available. We have the community center which has all the amenities for you know seniors in that building. So Commissioner Squid, you have questions.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Um, just to echo what Commissioner Hasty said a moment ago about I appreciate what you all have done saving Twitty City and all of that. I think it's going to look really good and I appreciate the effort there. Um, again though, I do have concerns about the parking situation. Just because folks are 55 plus does not necessar necessarily mean they only have one car. Um, additionally, even if they only have one car, it's become quite the trend to have a golf cart to get back and forth to the pickle ball court and the pool and whatnot. So, you know, saying, "Hey, we're going to use part of the parking in the garage as part of the required parking is not something that I can be okay with." Um, but enough said about that. I do have a follow-up question. Um, I do understand that the Music City Boulevard is a private road. However, um at a previous meeting when you all came before us, you assured us that that would remain open to the public um for ease of use out of the backside of First Baptist and the YMCA. Is that going to remain so?

Yes, that remain it'll remain open as a public, but it you said it is defined as a private road. A private road, right? I think is and that's the status now. I just wanted to make sure that's how it would remain, right? No, we haven't changed that designation at all. Okay, fantastic. And then additionally, are you planning to repair the Hello Darlin wall where the tornado came and knocked some of the brick out right there? Right. One of one of the issues when we moved the community center a little more towards Music City Boulevard and Main Street, the wall now, and you can see it. You can't really read in there, but yes, the Hello Darling wall will remain for a good part of it. And actually, when it turns the corner, um, it'll remain too. Are you

So that was all part of our planning. Are you planning to tear down any portion of the Hello Darling wall? Not not the Hello Darling portion. I think there's a portion of the that says Music City that runs down Music Village Boulevard that will be removed just because of the way the the layout has come out, but the portion along Main Street is will remain. The section that's been uh damaged will be repaired. Will be repaired. Yes. Okay. Thank you. I just want to reiterate that I would not support the waiver for the parking. Thank you. Commissioner Kerr. Yes. Thank you. Uh, a couple questions on the assisted living versus independent living. Uh, been in healthcare many years, so I I know a little bit about this space.

Um, there is a huge difference between independent living and assisted living. I agree. When it comes to if you're offering you you mentioned medication, well, that's a state lure

concern. not a concern, but you got to get appro appropriate approvals to do that. So, I mean, I I'm not a big fan of just juggling the two terms around because there's a huge difference in terms of assisted versus independent. And also from an assisted living p perspective, if you rotate back to that at some point or you're planning today to build out some of those as assisted living, there's there's requirements around where patients can be and access to doors and public access to the buildings. So I would just ask that you make sure you research all that before you think about an assisted living because there there is a huge difference in terms of the way the state lure board looks at those two. Oh, and and I agree and okay, we had that when we took that one building out that was a pure assisted living all the services and the licensers and then this independent what we're saying is there's you know like a cafeteria services of other things available and yes licensing is very important to our organization. Um we have you would offer med services, medication services to the independent living side. Yeah, maybe. I mean, we can, you know,

I mean, that's that's a big deal because a lot of that's reimbured by Medicare and and all that. That's not the you know, but there are services available, but not purely not assisted living. In other words, it's not an assist. We're not putting assisted living patients into this this facility, the independent living. I mean, you you could put somebody and that's the slippery slope between independent and assisted. Well, I agree. Um, so and and maybe this is a staff question. Can they uh rotate back, pivot back to an assisted living if they choose to do that at some point? Uh, I think at this point with the final development plan that's taken out,

you know, uh, which is fine. Uh, but if they wanted to go back to that, Timothy, uh, I think they'd have to come back and add that use. Well, I the use is still as they've presented it, the use is still in there. They've just removed the facility. You'd have to you'd have to come back and and do a revised FDP. Well, if if they were going to present Yes. If they're going to do a large centralized assist living facility, right? Yes. They would have to come back and add that into the plan. However, the use just the bare use still is part is still a part of the listed.

I see I see what you're saying. I mean, if if that's in fact the case, why not pull that use out of the current plan and so you don't have a use that you don't have in the plan? You know what I mean? I mean, I I just think that I mean, I personally want clarity on that because I I know what that can do to a particular community. Uh, and a lot of restrictions around that. Um, so I would I just think about it and this is a staff more of a staff question. Can we consider revising the the use uh appropriate uses to take out assisted living at this stage?

Uh you you could certainly um it just it just means down the road if the if they decided to at some point flip back if they decided, hey, we've looked at this and you know, we think that there's a market for the assisted living component after all. Um it's just it's just you know they'd have to come back and add that get that use added to it. So it reduces we'd want them to come back regardless if they wanted to add assisted living units right in a different type of facility. But if they were converting it from the existing development to that use which I don't think is their intention.

No no this is an independent living cottage unit. And like you said, the definition of zoning says independent means 55 plus, but there there's no assisted living per se units on it. So we're we're right now this is an independent living facility with services for independent living, you know, and I I would I would think Yeah. Uh I would think that if this was approved with the way this layout is uh and then you wanted to convert that existing same layout uh to some type of assisted living uh then uh that would change even though the use is actually okay in this particular makeup. It hasn't been approved that way per the final development plan. And so I would look at that as a director. I would look at that as you'd have to come back and do an amendment of the FTP uh to to clarify that because it could mean something different in the infrastructure. I mean I would think it would be less parking requirement for assisted living than independent living. Uh but there could be other infrastructure related things uh we might look at a little bit differently. So, if that were to occur in the future, uh, Commissioner, then, uh, we would require it to come back for an amendment of the final development plan,

right? And that that could be some structural changes, too, because you got to have limited access into the buildings. It's just a totally different ballgame. So, I'll just leave it at that. I just wanted to bring that,

right? And just to clarify, yes, at one point if we said, you know, we're going to have more assisted living, but you know, our market studies show there's enough assisted living in Hendersonville area that that's not required. But this housing type, the independent living with, you know, services available for catering to, you know, the older population. Yes, that's so at any point if we said, well, we want to put an assisted living on there, you know, we would we would come back with a new plan with a new building that fits it. But

yeah, I and I hear you. But the safety switch for me are is the staff, you know, that would require that because when we when it leaves this commission tonight, we've got that use on there. The only safety switch we got is through through planning that that it would not move forward with assisted living unit unless it comes before this commission first. And that I'm okay with that. I just wanted to clarify that. No, thank you for clarifying because

are are you comfortable with um once this if this uh uh moves forward tonight with the recommendation to Bulma and then is approved by Bulma, are you okay if we put a note on there to that effect? Just so it's clear in the future, whoever are in our positions will know, oh, if this change occurs, then it's going to require um a uh an amended final development plan. Oh, yeah. By all means. Okay. We'll we'll we'll the staff will just do that when we do that. Okay. Commissioners, any other questions? Go ahead, Commissioner Hardick.

So, two two quick questions. So, we are approving this as a 55 plus. So, if I'm 45, I'm not eligible to live there. Correct. Uh I I will let Is that what they're Is that That's what you're saying. Correct. the a certain number is allowed. There's a percentage different jurisdictions have a certain percentage under 55 can live there, but it's it's a 55 plus community, but you're right. If if 45 I I can't I don't know the exact but I know that there

it's not totally restricted because that would be well so I guess I've always understood this was going to be an assisted independent living for seniors. So now the assisted is gone. You're saying there's not a market for that here. Understand. Uh, so it's now independent, but I just want to make sure you're saying this is independent for seniors. And is that is it 10%? Is it

25%? I mean, I'm not ask I'm not trying to put that number on you. I'm trying for you to tell me what it is I'm voting for. Cuz the way I'm hearing it right now, it could be all 20 year olds that want to live there if that's what shows up and there's no there's no restriction on it. It could go that direction. No, it's a it's a 55 plus, but I know law says that there is some percentage and I can't then you please give that to me so I can understand what I'm voting. Timothy is wanting to tell you. Yeah, I'll just read the definition.

Okay. uh independent living facility, a residential complex containing dwellings where the occupancy is limited is limited to persons who are 55 years of age or older or if two persons occupy a unit, at least one shall be 55 years or older. Such facilities may include common areas for meals and socializing but but um offering minimal convenience services. Um, so that indicates that at least one person, at least one of the occupants has to be 55 or older. Okay, I'm good. Then the last piece on here was it did not talk about the exterior sighting of the buildings. What are you envisioning? Um,

I know that's going to come back in the future, but just want you to tell me what it is you're thinking. it it's um you know majority brick but then there'd be some siding you know mix of siding and so you you know majority of it's going to be like you see here it's not going to be you know stuck or something we're talking about you know brick and and siding and accents you know okay that's all right thank you commissioner Kerr on the queue

just to follow up uh Timothy on your definition so if if you had and I've got two questions if you had somebody that was 55, they could have as many people as they wanted under 55 living there. Uh I I believe so. Yes. Okay. That's a concern. Uh secondly, does the person that's 55, if they are legal owner of that property, do they have to actually reside there in order for Yes. Yes. At least one of the occupants would have to be 55 or older and own and live there. And live there, right? But these are rentals.

Oh, rental. My bad. Yeah, that's right. So, right. So, they'd have to physically live in the property. Okay. And and just one point to clarify on on that if I can. The the units themselves are small um under 1,000 square feet. I think each each unit is that. So, there's only I think two bedrooms in each unit. So there's not going to be multiple bedrooms that are housing multiple people like that. The intent for the intent for this is now have have you spent a lot of time in Sar County? No. Okay. I have and and I'm telling you you could have the one or two bedroom apartments and have 10 people in that unit.

That sounds outrageous but it happens. Um, so and that's why I asked the question on the number of do we have any kind of requirement or limit on the number of people that can live in a rental unit?

Yes. U there are limits by um we have some limits and then state law define some things in a family it's it's somewhat loose. I think it's five unrelated the five five unrelated people but that could be could be there but if they're related there is not a there's not a limit uh to what that what that would be and I I think a lot of these different things that are driving the questions uh I think they're dealing with your request for the waiver of the parking

because that's that's making this look at this at a deeper level because where, you know, the the planning commission is trying to diligently determine in considering the waiver all of these different potential unknowns. Uh, you know, is that something still that you're uh wanting to request that or do you And if I can address some of the concerns about about the parking. So, this is intended to be independent living.

Um, and like Kevin said, most of the residents that are that are living in these communities are 80 years old. So the typical resident is not 55 and active adult as it's called. These are older citizens that are looking to downsize that are that are oftentimes signal single uh you know they've they've lost a partner and they're moving into these facilities for community and and additional care um and the amenities that are being offered. So I think that's that's a point to consider. Um obviously we can't regulate that necessarily. I I understand where the concerns are coming from from that end, but I do think that's a point to consider. Um there are studies that are that are done from a parking standpoint that often independent living only requires 0.2 to 0.4 parking spaces per unit. So that's much less than the requirement of two parking spaces per unit. So I think that's also a point to consider. Um and why we are trying to count the garage as part of that. Um the garage for for seniors is being used for their cars so that they can park. They're they're out of the rain. They're out of the cold. They can park their cars, get into their homes. That's kind of the intent and why we wanted to use that garage space. Um, often these seniors are not bringing a lot of stuff that's stored in garages like you often see like my garage at home, it's full of stuff. Um, that's different at a independent living senior living facility. Uh, the other thing I I do want to point out that adding parking to the plan, which has not been shown since the PD with the PDP either, but if we add parking spaces to the plan, that will add like another acre approximately of impervious area. So additional storm water management is required, a lot more infrastructure just it really will reduce the character and

quality of the development to add that much additional pavement and parking. So that's part of the reason why we are requesting this waiver. I hope that's helpful. It is. Commissioner Slatterie, you were in the queue.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So to [clears throat] dig a little deeper down this rabbit hole on the age restrictions of of the occupants, I remember us having this conversation about another age restricted community and University of Google just taught me that the federal HOPA housing for older persons act and I remember us talking about this requires in 55 plus communities at least 80% of the occupied units must have at least one um occupant that is 55 years or older. Only 80% which means of these 110 units,

22 of them could easily have someone in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and I'm personally tired of 55 being clumped in with the older definition. Got to work on that one. But but [laughter] back to, you know, back to the parking concern. Our community is highly desirable. Tennessee is highly desirable. Outcomes of elections tonight could make us even more desirable. But as people move to this area, a thousand square foot dwelling seems more than adequate depending on where they're coming from. And we could very easily see this be 88 units of 55 plus. And at 55 plus, there are three vehicles in my garage right now plus a K Cabota. So four. So, I I think the parking continues to be a real um point of concern for me that a single garage and I hear what you're saying. At 80, you might not have as much in your garage, but I consider these step down from single family home. Everybody's moved out finally and we're downsizing. Downsizing does not happen in one step. Downsize happens with a garage that is full to the beams as you continue to try to downsize. So, I I just um I I cannot support the waiver for the parking um wa I can't support the request for the parking waiver for all of those reasons.

No, I understand. I appreciate that. And like Mark was saying, these units range from onebedroom 800 ft² all the way up to 1300 where we do have a parking space in the larger units for golf cart. But the the the gist of this development is dignity for elderly people that that find themselves, you know, empty nesters or, you know, spouse may have passed away. And this the services we're providing like one thing you you see here is that the street is really for the cars only, but we have an entire walking path. So the idea is this is a walking community and the advantage is you can get out and walk the entire thing. You can see people and rarely do you cross a road and then we have some of the central spaces which we look as nice gathering spaces and all of the services that we're providing are for you know they're geared towards the elderly that you know need to have an improved life. And so that that's really been this whole thing. So yeah, part of it is we understand the park requirement, but that would also start not only in prairie surfaces, but start adding another layer of congestion and and so yeah, it it's we've really worked hard to create this park because Tennessee is a very desirable. Hendersonville isn't extremely desirable and you know market studies show that this will be you know occupied pretty quickly. Commissioner Martin, you're in the queue.

Um I'm an architect too, so I appreciate what you've said and the civil engineer um on how things should work. Um in a perfect world that's the way it would it would work. Um but that's not the world we live in. The reason I asked um Director Free to articulate why we don't allow a garage space to count is because it's something we have in our um zoning ordinance because it's been an issue all over town. So that's why we have it. Um it's not I'm just I'm just letting you know it's it's it's our position. Yeah, I fully understand the reality of because like you said, Miss [snorts] Slattery, I mean, I I have a two-car garage, which is now a cat haven. We had somebody come in, the kittens were born in there, now this kitten brought this kitten, and so now our cars are outside and, you know, once you have an empty space, Yeah. it's suddenly everything and um we we can't control that. We can we can try to monitor it and make sure that's the way, but you're right. I mean, human beings, I've been an architect for a long time, and I could design the most beautiful thing, and that's where we always say, "Take a picture before people move in." You move in and it's like, "Where did all this stuff come from?" [laughter] Right? It's like you could you could say, "This is the way this functions." And they go, "I don't I don't want that." Well, that's code. That has to be in there for that reason. So, we I really appreciate that having lived in neighborhoods and other areas where next thing you know, it's like you're in the middle of a city. Commissioner Evans, you have a question. Uh,

a couple of observations and my my thunder has been stolen by Commissioner Slatterie. U, but I'm I'm uh obviously over 55 and I still have eight vehicles and I've got lots and lots of stuff that would have to fill a garage. Getting beyond that, uh, I'm seeing some walking trails. I'm seeing some pickle ball courts, but what I see otherwise is a high density duplex development. And I just can't I just can't vote for this. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Hasty, one more.

One more time. I agree with Mr. Evans 100%. Not only will I not vote for the variance, but I won't vote for the development because it has totally changed when from when the concept was delivered and we had all these public hearings and all these people were addressing that development. And what we're seeing now is nothing like what was originally presented and all the public hearings were held. So I'm voting against the merits and voting against the project. Okay. Any other commissioners? Otherwise I'll entertain motions. And just before we take motions, we could also have a motion for the waiver only. We got to have a motion for the final development plan. We can combine them. So I will hear your leisure. Do what you Well, I just want to ask one quick question.

Go right ahead before we make the motions to we are voting for this as a seniors not assisted independent seniors independent living is what we're voting on and that's what the development will be per the rules and regulations that go with that. Yeah, from my understand it's independent living and the definition of independent living means 55 plus and senior independent living is what is what I'm voting on. You're in you're voting for independent living and our definition of it says that that's 55 plus.

Okay, got it. Can I can I add one comment, please?

Yes, go right ahead. [clears throat] I just want to clarify the the change in the development plan which we acknowledge is different from what you have seen previously. It did remove the assisted living but the independent living cottages are largely the same as they were before. The density has increased from 96 to 110. So an addition of 14 units and the removal of 80 assisted living units. So I think you could argue this is actually less dense than it was before. And I I do want to make that point that we're we're not ch largely changing this plan um with a trying to throw a big curveball in here. We're trying to create a a a great independent living community and development.

Right. Just to you know follow up on that, what we did was remove the 80 unit assisted living up on the street and then we also removed next to it. You see that was a fourstory office complex. So both of those were removed and the density decreased to basically 10 units were put in that that space and um the landscaping increased up in that front end too. So that it has become less dense but there were more units but most of the units added were 700 to you know thousand square feet [clears throat] more independent living units less units overall and less commercial development up front and along Main Street.

Commissioner Hardwick I see you have a question. I

I know we want to vote and I want to vote as well. the fact that you just said you removed the office buildings and I if I recall from our conversation there was going to be a lot that TBN was doing with that. You were going to be bringing a lot of engineers and programming. What with with all that being removed, I'm assuming none of that is coming at this point. What is the long-term plan for the theater? Well, the theater will remain as it is with it's a TV studio and you know TBN has active, you know, programming going on, but we also look at it as, you know, it's a facility too for residents and the community, which is one of the parts that why we moved the community center up towards the thing because we look at that as like, you know, a gesture towards the community because we there's enough spaces in there where you can't have programs come in and and outside people come into that facility and um certainly with the Twitty mansion remained and what we've done is we've made sure that the area in front of it is open so you can have open air events with that as a background. So, we still have the one commercial development up in the upper corner, the Cordell and Main Street, which would have professional offices and, you know, we look at maybe some medical offices and I mean, that's to be determined, but we know that's a at least a four-story development that's still remaining on the property.

So, there's no plan in a year or two or three to close the theater. It's it's it's we're we're looking at a long-term commitment that it's it's going to continue to be here. It will be there and it'll be active and used for lots of programming TBN and other

Okay. So, I'll just do a real quick summary from what I understand to make sure that we all know what we're voting on. Okay. It has changed. It took out the assisted living. The density has decreased. You all are asking for a waiver on parking. Now again, you know, the waiver on parking is causing a lot of uh concern amongst this committee. All right? You've heard a lot of the people telling you that they're going to have trouble voting for this for a number of things. Okay? So, it's time for you guys to do a little soularching, too. All right? But at the same time, I think everybody on this side understands it's independent living. Okay? which means in our definition it's a 55 plus community. There are people that can live there less than 55, okay, but not a whole lot. And it is a lower density than we originally saw. So there's some check boxes on some of this on our side of the table. So with that, I'll entertain a motion or any more comments.

So we're going to do the motion separately or together. You all are in control. You can do a waiver motion. You can do a final development plan motion. You could do them combined. You can do what you want. You could do you could do a final you could do approve the final development plan without the requested variance. Okay. If you wanted to or you could do it with it uh as well. So either either way. I'm eating the horse one bite at a time. Yeah. There we go. Hold on one second. Wendy,

you know, um I I said to you guys it's time for you to do soul searching, too. So, if you see the tone up here is not going your way, you're welcome to ask for a deferral. I believe most of the people on this side of the table will grant it. And if it gives you time to go back and make a plan that's a little better uh you know for both parties, it's it's available to you.

I think we would take that deferral request. Unfortunately, Frankia with the ownership group was unable to be here and I I we do apologize that he had some health issues that he's dealing with and so was unable to fly in today. Uh I I wish he was here to help. I know he was a big part of the original discussions that you all had. So, I I think taking a deferral at this step, given the way this conversation has gone, I'm a little caught off guard by by this, but understand all the concerns that we're hearing. Um, we we definitely take the time to to regroup and come back in front of you. Well, I will make a motion for Right. So, I'm going to confirm so it's in the public view that you are requesting the deferral. Correct.

Okay. Now, I will make a motion that we will grant you a deferral. And And how much time would you like for this deferral to be able to do this? I think 30 days. Okay. A 30-day deferral is the motion that I'm going to make. Do I have a second? Second.

Okay. I have a second. Do we need to do a electronic vote, I would suspect. And again, this is an electronic vote supporting the M motion for a 30-day deferral. Motion to grant 30-day deferral request by applicant approved with nine yeses. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. That'll be the December second meeting.

All right. Moving to the next one, we have a site plan. It's football site plan amendment field lighting owner football 5 investment group location 240 innovation way parcel 160 MA005.02 and again this is Timothy.

Thank you. Uh so football 5 is proposing to add uh field lights to their to their soccer field. Uh the zoning ordinance limits light poles to 22 feet with 30 feet height allowed upon approval of the planning commission. Um those lighting standards are geared towards parking lots generally but that that is the requirement. Um football 5 is requesting 70 foot tall poles which would be similar to the field light pole heights in our in our park system. Um, parking lots in particular have a maximum cap of 10-ft candles and uh, and parking lots and 30-foot candles under fuel canopies. So, that kind of gives you a this this proposal for the 70 foot poles has a foot candle rating of 45. So that kind of gives you a a reference point to kind of judge what the lighting levels are for a field compared to a typical parking lot in our in our community. Um our standards don't particularly address field lighting. Um as far as lighting levels, um the uh the proposed plan shows foot candles in the range of 45 foot candles. Um, and I would point out to remind you that the Bulma approval of the CDP included the requirement that lights that any lights be turned off by 10 p.m.

Thank you very much. Uh, any questions for Timothy from up here? Okay, Commissioner Slatterie. Um, Timothy, thank you, Mr. Chair. Timothy, are there any light poles taller than the 22 foot current requirement around these businesses or in the area of Football Five since that is a light industrial um commercial area? I don't recall any that uh take advantage of the 30-foot option. There may [clears throat] be some, but I I don't recall any particular particular but nothing beyond the 30 foot. Nothing with a waiver.

No. Okay. Thank you.

And I would u it may be helpful to kind of go over the history of the of the zoning of this area. So um some time ago, this particular parcel uh was industrial along with all those other large parcels on innovation way. Um they got reszoned to general commercial PD. Um and then Grace Place next door. So along the new shackle corridor um all that is is GC commercial about 300 ft deep including the including the lots across the um kind of the front of where Innovation Way te's in. All that's commercial. Um, and then Grace Place got their GC lot reszoned to MFR PD. So MFR PD is that's the only residential, you know, other than on the opposite side of New Shackle in this whole area.

Commissioner Kerr, I saw you second. Right. Uh, just maybe a question for Timothy. Um 70 seems to be pretty high to me. But um what I don't know um is do we have any other exceptions at athletic fields where 70ft pole is what we've got? I'm not aware of any.

What is the average at say Dre's Creek or the rugby field? I mean what what are we talking about? So in our parks department, they have the ability to go up to whatever they need. So that so I did ask parks about this and they said their lights in general range from 75 to 80 foot, but but that's for parks. I'm not aware of any exceptions for for private property or private fields. So if if we were to grant this exception, would that put us in a difficult situation if another athletic organization came in and wanted the same say more in closer to a residential area? Um I just worry about about that too.

Uh I mean each each of these can be judged on their own merits. Um, so I don't I don't think they would necessarily uh uh sort of pigeon hole you into a particular uh decision if if some other um situation came along. Okay, last question. Why 70 feet? Why not 50? Why not 40? Um I think the applicant is better prepared to answer that. [clears throat]

Hello, I'm Chuck Messer with Football Five. I'm sure you are familiar with me. We've been back. Good to see everybody again. Um, so the reason that we have adjusted to 70 is we turned this over to Geosport, which is our lighting contractor, lighting engineer. Um, we told them that we had a 30-foot requirement to meet and they did a photooluminescent on that 30foot design. Um the problem as you can see is it's just not a safe playing environment for players at 30 feet. Um we have 4 foot candles which is less than half of a dimly lit parking lot in the goal box where people are going to be taking balls. Um we have 154t candles at the midline. That's like staring directly into the sun. So, I can't provide a safe playing environment for the people who are going to be on this field. At 70, that's what the industry standard is for a full size 11 v11 uh soccer field. And it gives us a much excuse me, a much more um even um cast over the entire field. We can use a lesser load on the lights as far as the power of the light. Um, and we can control the direction, casting it more down, bringing in shields, things that we simply can't do at 30 feet that help us to control that one candle max at property line of Grace Place, which is residential. And we do maintain that by bringing in shields on the lights. Um, I think our max on that property line, I can't see it from here, but it's like 0.4 um, which is less than half of what the requirement is for residential. So, we took all of those things that we've learned here in these meetings and and how particular we are with Grace Place and ensuring we don't spill onto their property when we took this 70 foot into account. And simply, we've we've went through various variations of this. And

I just keep getting told 70 is what works for this size of a field. Um, even at the 30, we would had originally planned, thank you, whoever's on the clicker, you're on it. Um, we had originally planned four polls and and the 30 requires us to bring in an additional poll taking us up to six. Um, and it just does not cover the field adequately. Yet, we still maintain at 70 the same spillage that we have at 30 on the property line at Grace Place. So, um, we've also convert to Love It and to the coach builder behind us, but both of them are not opposed to more lighting on their property. So, um, and again, we have the 10:00 shut off every night, so I feel this won't really play too much into that.

That's helpful. Thank you. Of course, Commissioner Silkwood, do you have questions? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here tonight. Um, I actually have quite a bit of experience with sports lighting. Um, and I can tell you all on the commission for sure that 70 foot poles are very standard. Um, in fact, you pretty much can't light a field of this size safely without a large pole.

Additionally, they have very modern directional lighting nowadays. I think we're all sort of thinking maybe even five years ago what was available. It's improved a lot even since then. Um, I drove around today to double check, but uh there is very tall lighting. It may not be quite 70 ft, but I'd guess it's at least 50 or 60 at the Lacrosse Fields, which directly abut houses on Cherokee Road. Um, additionally at Drake's Creek at the soccer field, there are houses that run along Chippendale and Southburn right on the other side of the tracks. Um, obviously the rugby field has Durham Farms right there. The lighting is very directional. Additionally, they've obviously agreed to cut off the lighting by 10 p.m. So, I think we allowed this use. we allowed this, you know, business to move forward. I think we need to allow them to to be as productive and successful as possible. And one other small comment, um maybe you all don't aren't aware, but our fields in the parks department are we could use probably 10 more fields to be honest. So hopefully this um place will alleviate some of that need. So I fully support it. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Martin. Um I just had some some questions because on a phototric you get um light all over the site plan. I didn't see that in the packet. Did you guys get that done? I'm sorry. All over the site plan. I was told to have it on the Is there one with the property line on there? Yeah, we they did turn those in showing showing the folk candle readings at the limits of the lot just on the perimeter. Correct. For the for the Yes, that's correct.

Okay. The one concern I've got and the reason I think we talked uh you could have 22 foot and then I think if I remember correctly, we let them have it up to 30 feet. Um and one of the driving considerations was glare into Grace Place. Um, and so now the 70 I didn't see like a cross-section that would show because I think this is sunken down a little bit, right?

Yes, it's about 18 foot down from entry point and the grade of where Grace Place is. Um, we also have a very dense tree line there. And again, the photooluminescence show we're at 04 at the property line and Grace Place has another 10-ft set back plus our 10 foot setback. So there's distance between us and anything on their on their lot as well. All right. So what elevation is Grace Place compared to the field? They are higher elevation than us for sure. 10 ft. I believe it. Roughly 20T from where our field sits to their sidewalk.

Right. That sounds about right. So the 30 foot light pole was kind of doable. the 70. Um, did you show this at Grace Place and and they were confident that you weren't going to get the No, but with the with the 70 foot lights, we're we're able to bring shields in and and we also agreed to LED lights as well. So, we're restricted in the type of light that we can use. Um, the shields will and are there for taking the glare away from the light. Yeah. The cut offs, right?

Yeah. Um, uh, is that demonstrated in the packet? Is there something I was missing that had a what's called a cross-section? All I saw was product data. You're uh, you're talking about a profile of the of the of the uh, topography. Yes. Cross-section of the topography. Uh, we that was not submitted. All right. I I would have liked to have seen that. Um, at least you could show that to Grace Place and kind of make him feel comfortable, but All righty.

Grace Place has been pretty fantastic to us. So, we've we've had co-grading, co- development plan package since day one with them and Love it Industrial down below. We've had nothing but support and we took them very heavily into consideration when we did the design. I just simply cannot offer a safe playing environment for players at 30 ft. It just I can't do it. Four candles and in a goal box is just dangerous. And staring and and not just that, but hot spots on the field going from a shadows and dimly lit. It's just it's there's studies that show that there is an increased soft tissue damage to to players that have poorly lit fields. I can't offer that to these people. Um I I don't want to offer that to these people. Let me rephrase that. Um and that's why we engage Geosport and they they are very well known, very reputable. They do Vanderbilt, University of Florida, all kinds of colleges. they know what they're talking about and this is what they they said look this is the way you get adequate lighting on your field 70 is the standard um and that's where we've landed here today is to try to make that happen

commissioner Slatterie you have questions thank you Mr. Chairman, thank you for being here. We do all recognize you. You never thought you'd travel to Hendersonville this often, did you? [laughter] Um, just an observation. I think you've worked very, very hard to make this work and to meet all of the the nuanced requests that have been made of you by the city. So, thank you for working so diligently to to be a good neighbor, right,

in Hendersonville. And I respect the concern about Grace Place. I also respect as someone pointed out to me um Grace Place made the decision to move into commercial area and I think um a lot of consideration is being given to Grace Place to make this as um least impactful as possible and I don't chase soccer balls but I wouldn't want to do it in bright light and then dark corners. So, for those reasons, I I I find no problem with your request. Thank you. And and would support it. Thank you.

Any other commissioners have questions, comments? I'll entertain a motion.

Okay. So, okay. I have Commissioner Hardwick. I see your lit up real quick. I'll make the motion to approve it. Okay. We have a motion to approve and I have a second from Commissioner Silkwood. And we'll do this by electronic vote.

Motion to approve pass with eight yeses, one no. Thank you all very much. It's great seeing you again. Okay, next on the agenda, another site plan. Hendersonville Police Department, K9 Building, site plan, owner, City of Hendersonville, location 3, Executive Park Drive, parcel 163 CF00005.00. Uh, planning staff, Caitlyn, this one's yours. [clears throat]

Thank you, chairman. The police department located at three Executive Park Drive uh south of West Main Street behind the First Horizon Bank, Arby's, Lind Patio, and Hendersville Health Mart. Uh they are located in the Dockside neighborhood along with the properties to the west and the south with General Commercial being north and to the east. Uh the applicant is proposing to build a 30x30 K9 utility building at the main police headquarters. The location of the building will be to the west of the main building in the existing gravel impound parking lot. There is an existing chain link fence surrounding the impound lot that will be expanded and relocated. The fenced area will increase from about 16,000 square feet to 20,000 square feet with a new internal chain link fence being uh added to enclose the building and the K9 training area. The newly closed enclosed area will be just over 3,000 square ft. The new structure will be cons uh constructed of metal sighting which is to be donated by 84 lumber. The applicant is requesting a waiver from the building material requirements um with the they are mitigating the visual impact of the building with and and proposing to install an opaque windcreen along the existing chain link fence and to plant Nelly R. Steven Holl's along the outer perimeter to the north and to the west perimeters. Uh the funds for the Holl are going to be from our tree bank fund. Also, uh with our newly approved zoning ordinance, the properties within Doside Neighborhood Zoning District are required to have a

minimum of 30% primary building materials from either brick, stone, Hardy, or an artificial stone product. The applicant has agreed to all staff comments and the chief of police did include a memo that was provided for you at your place. Thank you, Caitlyn. Uh, police chief, I see you out there. You want to come up and speak? [laughter] Not really, but I will. You did. You didn't go unnoticed.

I was trying to. So we basically our police building we're we're probably at 120% capacity. We have been for quite some time and but our operations continue to expand and for many many years our we have outsourced our K9 training. We still continue to do that but instead of trying to look six months down the road or a year down the road we're trying to look five and 10 years down the road as our program continues to expand. And we know that our local trainer uh at some point in the future, probably not real distant like some of the rest of us, is going to retire. And so we're trying to make sure that we have the facilities in place to continue all of our training, but we're trying to move it in house. Uh the problem we run into, and we've looked into this, is some of the other training facilities are out of state. Plus, because of our long working relationship with our trainer that's local, uh the prices are significantly lower and we know if we go out of state, we don't feel like the quality of training is there, but also uh the cost of the training is exorbitant. So, in order to plan for that, we have to have facilities in place to continue that trainer. one of our current employees uh who has been with the K9 unit for a number of years has gone through a lot of the training to get the certifications required to be court accepted as a K9 trainer because obviously I think you know that with police dogs there's there is quite a bit of liability. So we want to make sure those people anybody that's doing that has the proper training the proper certifications and will be accepted by the courts. Um this opportunity kind of came to us. We've been discussing over a period of time what we're going to do. We did not budget for this this year because we didn't think it was going to be, you know, in the in the plans. Uh we

were approached by 84 Lumber Company. They very graciously offered to donate all of the building materials for the building. Uh but this is what they offered. And so obviously with them donating that, we're not trying to come back to the city and ask for more money at this point. That's not to say at some point in the future we might not have to. it. We we hope to complete this facility without asking for additional funds from the city. Um we've got a vendor that's agreed to donate the heating and air conditioning system for the building. Uh we're working with an electrician who's going to try to do what he can to donate as much as possible. So, we're trying to do this and be as fiscally conservative with funds, especially if it comes back to I'm coming before the board of mayor and alderman ask for money to spend money. um we're trying to be as as as conservative as we can with that money. And so um if we go with a different type of building material, obviously that falls outside of what the vendor is willing to donate to us and then it increases the cost substantially. Um this is we've been looking at what we were going to do for the towin lot anyway because I'll be honest with you, I I don't really like the idea of just chain link fence being there. um our current if you can see the building or the roof line in the the front section there that is our K9 kennel facility and we already have that windscreen all we have windcreens there to kind of shield the view of that um and uh Mr. Lavender actually suggested the the planning around to further obscure that and I'm all for it. Uh even if we don't do the building, we want to do something to try to obscure that towin lot because we have a requirement that we maintain a chain of custody on seized vehicles and that's where they go right now. So that's a fenced in lot that's locked. There's cameras on it. Uh there's officers in the vicinity 24

hours a day, seven days a week. So, uh, but this that's originally we wanted to put the building outside the chain link fence farther to the closer to the front and just upon looking at it, we felt like it would obscure the building more if we put it inside the fence. So, that that was why we changed. All right. Any commissioners have questions for either Caitlyn or the police chief? Okay. No questions. I'll entertain a motion. We have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. We have a second. Okay. Electronic vote.

Thank you, Chief. We appreciate it. Thank you'all very much. Motion to approve. Pass with nine yeses. Thank you. Okay. Okay, next on the agenda is another site plan, Rockland Storage Yard. Owner Edwin Ventura, locations 286 Rockland Road, parcel 1600 C 027.0. And again, uh, Kaitlin, this one's up to you.

Yes, sir. The location is at 286 Rockland Road. Uh, the applicant is requesting approval for a contractor storage yard. The site is located north of the entrance at Rockland Recreation Area, east of Free Hill Road and west of the vacant lot right next to it. The applicant is proposing to remove the existing vacant house along with the existing asphalt driveway and the asphalt apron near where their new uh entrance is located. The property is zoned general commercial and was previously used for residential. The surrounding zoning includes a mix as seen on the screen of SR1, general commercial and heavy commercial. Um the proposed plan indicates the area will be used exclusively for material storage with no structures on the site. The storage yard will be prepaved with asphalt and full enclosed by a 8ft wooden privacy fence along the entire perimeter. A there is a 20ft gravel section located in the rear of the storage area that will be used for strictly um like rebar those type of materials. uh to enhance the visual screening they have they're going to have buffer landscaping proposed along the front and also um they'll have four employee parking spaces one of them which will be ADA the sidewalk is proposed along to be installed from the eastern property to the existing driveway instant entrance of the property which is being closed off along the western edge of the roadway a guardrail is in place to protect the steep uh embankment that includes rockout croppings and mature

trees. The applicant is requesting a partial waiver from the requirement to extend the sidewalk along the entire property frontage. The waiver request is based on several constraints um including the excessive slopes, conflicts with the existing guardrail and the proximity to the bridge. The applicant has accept uh has agreed to all staff comments. Okay, Commissioner Silk, you're in the queue.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a quick question for Caitlyn. Caitlyn, could you clarify what type of material will be stored there specifically when I'm looking at the um the site layout plan on C 2.0 I know at um that was we were directed to look at in the comments regarding what was to be stored. Um their note number four says enclosed steel containers for secure storage of equipment and tools. Um [clears throat] is that going to be like a sea container, a freight container? I'm actually going to let the applicant answer that question.

Good evening. Uh my name is Daniel Smola. I'm a civil engineer with Harper Civil uh here in Middle Tennessee. Um first and foremost, thank you all for your time this evening. Thank you for planning staff and public works. You all have been fantastic to work with to get to this point. Um to answer your question, uh the the steel shipping containers, it's like your standard, it's your standard shipping container. Um they have uh a full-size one and then a half-size one that they found to be uh most convenient for storage of power tools um equipment that they just don't want to leave outside in the weather conditions. They did have a car port there that they intend to remove as part of this process which further kind of removes the ability to to keep uh certain materials and elements out of the weather. Um so essentially that's what it is. is just more secure storage for for the tools and equipment that they use for their business. Um, if I could elaborate just a little bit more just to inform you, I mean, it's it's a small concrete business. They have less than five employees. Um, it's locally owned and run. Um, their operations include uh employees showing up in the morning for loadouts, get get trucks ready, get materials on trailers. Um, the site is uh unoccupied for a majority of the day. gates are closed, things are secured, and then they return in the evening for for their work vehicles. Um, evening hours, it's it's secured. Uh, gates are shut and locked. And the same thing with the evening. So, largely there's there's not a lot of happenings occurring on the site or a lot of activity. It's primarily just a meeting space for for storage materials and and and for their their their employees to meet in the mornings.

Thank you so much. Um, I do see the need for the waiver on the sidewalk. That's obviously a very steep embankment and there would be no way to build a sidewalk there. Um, however, you know, look, looking at our zoning ordinance 10416, I believe it is. Um, I I don't believe frank containers, C containers, it says storage within over the road containers, and similar structures are prohibited in all zones unless on a temporary basis. So, that's why I asked that question, what type of storage? because I don't believe I mean and perhaps director free could clarify that that is an approved storage um item.

Okay, I understand. Um I don't know if that's something that could be part of tonight's discussion or not. I know it's it's uh they are removing the carport that they have on site because they need something to try to keep rebar, welded wire mesh, things like that out of the elements. they can cover them with with tarps and what have you, but it becomes a little bit of a challenge, you know, just logistically and and movement movement of materials. I don't know if that might be something that could be considered tonight or if not um we could um remove it from the plan and come back at a later time for for further discussion on that. Yeah, I was going to ask what other type of storage building or Yeah, you can um could could be presented other than a C container.

Sure. We I I've talked with staff um about the potential of a leanto style structure potentially uh just to get an open air style structure just to get them some some weather proofing. But um in the time that it was identified that what was there wasn't allowed as with regard to the carport. We didn't have time to go and spec out what a lean to structure would look like in addition with materials. There'd be I think some rocka and masonry elements that would go to it you know so there has to be a little bit more thought put into um a permanent structure to put into weatherproof those things and they intend to to likely look at that in the future. Um it's just not part of of this plan. And so in the meantime, if the containers were to be removed, um they would simply have to deal with covering those materials on on an as needed basis or or trying to limit the materials that are being exposed until they can come back and then get some weather proofing structure to them.

I know it's kind of a lesser of two evils thing, right? I mean, I really I'm not in love with the idea of, you know, having sea containers there and then that becoming something that's, you know, accepted throughout the city and and different zones and whatnot. But at the same time, I really don't like the idea of equipment being covered with tarps. Um, so perhaps director free might have something.

So in that same section 10.4 4 uh.14. It does on number four, it does allow uh for the planning commission to approve those that outdoor storage um with the site plan. So, that is a possibility. Yes, they do. They're not allowed, but it can be approved by the planning commission.

I I think I think it could be done this evening. Um, you know, I think just um just the unit itself that isn't desirable or what we're looking to do. Uh, if something was done with it, uh, that would make it conform to being more something that was a sol, you know, a solid structure uh, with the outside material on it, uh, Hardy board or something that would be acceptable. Uh, then that could be could be a possibility. If I could add to that, um the the owner has been fantastic about wanting to um present staff with solutions that that provide aesthetic component to it. We understand there is a an aesthetic component to storage yards that that we try to steer away from. Um the site as it stands today has a six-foot um heavy duty chain link fence with screening around it. They've agreed to remove the six foot chain link fence and reinstall eight foot wooden privacy fence around the entire perimeter. Um that's a significant cost not only to remove the fence that's there today, but also to reinstall the privacy fence to help with the visual component. Um they've also agreed to um an additional 15t landscape buffer on the front of the site to help soften the appearance from the road as well as the southeast corner of the site where the entrance is. that'll extend about 50 feet into the property. Um, when you combine that with the dense vegetation along the extended ride ofway on the north side of Rockland Road, um, we feel like there's a a solid visual screen, especially going to an 8-oot privacy fence. Um, so as far as being able to see the structures, we've done a lot to try to hide their appearance, but um, if it

can't be considered tonight, if we need to look at it further, whether it's a material being added to the storage container to um, address those concerns, that's something that that I'm sure they would be willing to to look at and satisfy. But I could say we've done a lot to help pre prevent that from being a concern. Commissioner Curry, you have questions.

Yeah, [clears throat] just to to leverage off of uh Commissioner Silkwood's question about what materials are to be stored there. Uh, I would be interested in knowing what materials cannot be stored there and do we have a comprehensive list of of that such as anything that's explosive or and we may have other ordinances that cover that, but what protections do we have that we're not going to have items like that other than you telling us? Um, maybe staff could educate me on how we would approach that.

Yeah. uh our fire representative in in here this evening. Uh but basically uh if you get into any hazardous or explosive, you know, type material, then that triggers a whole bunch of stuff that the the fire department does. So there has to be uh there's limits and limits uh of where things like that can be placed and then how um if there was some type of situation with it or it was flammable or it caught on fire or something, you know, how that would be addressed and how it would be assessed. Uh as well as depending on the site, there's some things that uh you might not have enough room to to physically have on there. Uh so that is something that our fire department uh uh looks at and then they uh they evaluate properties uh throughout the year I believe where they uh go on site and check things and and sometimes they'll find something uh that they weren't aware of uh of of material that's being stored uh that and then uh the business has to change that or have it properly properly stored.

That's a good question. So let me go back. Do we have a list of unapproved items that could be stored there? No. No.

We have we've provided an implicit list. We we've said what we intend to store there. Um to provide an exclusionary list, it would be broad, I would I would assume. So, we we've been implicit in what we intend to do um rather than than exclude. I will say um in the pre-application meeting we did have a chance to have um fire marshall representative as part of that. Um and with that the only concern that they had was making sure that they had um 150 ft access to the back of the site for the proper for the proper fire coverage. And with that we've installed heavy duty concrete to get them into the site for that proper coverage. Um we also do have a public fire hydrant right at the site access. So um there is emergency services available should should anything happen. As with any storage yard, you're going to have vehicles with gas, things like that, you know, but they're not um they don't have any um gas containers. They're not doing any refueling on site or um they're not doing any blasting with with things like that. They're they're simply um their laborers for for concrete finishing essentially.

Okay, that's helpful. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. Any other questions by the commissioners?

I'll entertain a motion. And remember in this motion uh the one thing they're asking us for is a waiver along the sidewalk but we have also brought up the entire issue around the storage unit. So is this are we voting tonight about storage unit or does it if Yeah. If the uh if the planning commission wanted to so if the planning commission wanted to vote on this incorporate the storage unit uh then the language would be something like uh motion to approve with all staff comments including the requested sidewalk waiver for that portion uh that's requested. Uh as well as you know approval of uh that the that the um um applicant will work with the staff to resolve um um uh conforming material uh that would be utilized around the storage uh the storage unit.

Okay. uh the uh and let's just say of Hardy probably at least Hardy I I don't foresee it being brick uh but probably Hardy board or something of that nature. I would ask that if if if it's necessary for the approval that those materials be added then we would certainly we would certainly um entertain that for sure. We we would we would comply with that. Um and I don't think and staff would not be for just the unit as it sits just having it out there on site.

Um uh but um limiting that to the two probably two units would and maybe mention limit on the number of units as well. So that would be that would be a way a motion could be made on that. All right. Before before I just want to make sure because the the fact is um the sidewalk waiver is of critical importance. I want to make sure that nobody has any questions with regard to the sidewalk waiver because the cost and items associated with that are significant. So um if there are any questions on that piece, I'd be happy to entertain them.

All right, no other questions. I don't see anybody offering a uh motion. I'll do my best to offer the motion. Okay. Because it's sounds like it's going to be complicated. All right. I'll make a motion to accept with all staff comments uh granting the waiver for the sidewalk exclusion that goes along the steep embankment where the rocks and the trees are. Okay. Going up to the bridge at the guardrail. And I'll also make the motion to include the allowance of no more than the two storage units. and they will be skinned according to what the planning director and his staff decide needs to be done in the future. And do I have a second?

Second. And did that motion cover everything? Yes, sir. All right. Good job, by the way. Say it again. [laughter] Thank you. No, I'm not repeating it. Please play it back. Okay. We'll vote this by electronic vote. Thank you for telling us everything. Thank you all for your motion to approve. Pass with nine yeses.

All right, we still have some more to go, folks. So now we're at section number nine. We have several resolutions. And just so everyone knows, I'm going to hit these very quickly, but all of these can be grouped if anybody wants to make a motion to group them. Okay. So, we have a motion to group and a second. And we'll do this by voice. Do all approve. Say yes. Yes. [clears throat] Anybody oppose? No. These are for the street except

and these are for the street uh resolutions only. So, these four resolutions just quickly uh you have one in Anderson Point, another and two of three of them are in Durham Farms. They've all met the city's expectations and their requirements. So, we are grouping them. We've accepted them and we're moving forward and approved them. Do we need to do an electronic approval? Yes, that probably. Okay, we'll do an electronic approval for the grouping motion. Is it just the grouping motion? No, for the grouping motion and the resolution acceptance. Okay.

Yeah. And the acceptance of the resolutions. Motion to approve resolutions pass with nine yeses. All right. Thank you. Next, we have the staff level projects approved. Okay. And all of you can see these. It's Grace Place. Uh actually, I'll just stop here. All of you have read this. So, are there any specific questions you have that you want to bring up? I do want to point out the elevation. We got it up on the screen. Okay. Oh, good.

Okay. This is the elevation for the 921 West Main Street uh elev and it's just the elevation. It's not the site. Uh so this is what that glass building. Uh this is what it's going to look like here pretty soon. So just want to share that with everybody, Mr. Chairman. Oh, that's great. And [snorts] just for everybody out there, this is the 921 building. This is the one coming into Hendersonville that's been deserted for a long time. So it's going to get a much needed faceelift and a whole new life. And it looks it looks very good. It's going to make the west side of our town look much better. Yes. All right. Anything else that we need to talk to? No. About that? No, sir.

All right. Next thing is beyond that is the staff level projects pending. So you can see all of these. Uh I have a question on one. Okay. Do we have Go ahead, Commissioner Slider. You have a question. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one question. If someone on staff could um expand a little bit on the partners property consolidation at 128 Sanders Ferry. That's the property with the brick house. What what are they consolidating? I know that's a very deep piece of land off of Sanders Ferry. Kaitlyn, what are they?

You want to share that? So, we had received some plans, initial plans back in June uh for two buildings um retail strip um on that corner of cages. Oh, okay. It does not include the house um that is a separate property the but they have not come back with a resubmiddle on those plans for the site plan. were had comments for them um as well as for the site the plat. We have not received those back. Okay. Thank you.

And it's a uh you haven't youall haven't seen it yet, but it's a it's a very nice plan. It's a it's a significant investment over there. Uh commercial development. Okay. Commissioners, y'all have any other questions about any of the staff level projects pending? All right. We'll skip ahead. planning director comments.

Yes. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do have a few things that I want to share uh this evening. Uh I want to give you an update uh that the uh New Maple Glenn uh combined development plan that's right across the street uh that Southeastern was doing uh on that property. Uh that did pass the first reading of Bulma and it's going to the second reading at their November the 18th meeting. Uh, also as you can see, Jim and Nicks, uh, is, uh, I believe they're now open. They did have a soft opening. Um, and grand opening,

grand openings tomorrow. And, uh, so I think people had some really good experiences there in the in the soft opening. Uh, so real nice, real nice folks there, uh, that are, uh, that have, uh, built that. Uh, so, uh, that's going to that's going to be happening here. Um, grand opening tomorrow. Also, uh, the In-N-Out Burger. And I might have a picture. So that that building, take a good look. That will be coming down here shortly. Uh the uh In-N-Out uh burger site will they've already started site demolition. Uh and they should start building demolition here sometime very shortly and then after that uh start construction. Uh so that's really cool. Also wanted to note um uh one of my favorite restaurants, Dob Bros, is coming to where the Cajun steamer was. Uh, so that's kind of that's kind of exciting. Uh, so I think that'll be a nice addition uh to our restaurants. Uh, and also uh just to let the uh the planning commissioners know u uh Zach will be sending out something on that title six training. We do need to get that wrapped up and we'll send out a reminder to that. Uh we need to get confirmation everybody got that done. As well as our annual uh training as planning commissioners. Uh we're going to have some recordings for y'all to watch and Zach will be getting that out in the in the coming weeks as well. Um also um the uh the Bulma uh they did uh approve the zoning ordinance and uh that the planning commission recommended. So uh good work uh for you guys and um and I believe in at the Bulma meeting I'm pretty sure Bulma actually they read they read the whole thing. uh they had a lot they had some questions and uh but uh I really appreciate uh your all's involvement in that and I do appreciate Bulma as well in their diligence. They did have a couple of changes that I just wanted to note to you uh where we had a m minor regional retail artistic

signage. Uh they did change that to where you had to be in a plan development uh to have the ability to pursue that approval through the planning commission. Uh also, uh in dealing with signs, uh they changed some things where uh you have to get rid of your grandfather non-conforming sign, if you your use changes outside of the uh major category that it's in. Uh so if it's a restaurant going to a restaurant, that won't require it. Uh but if it's a restaurant going to an office, you're going to have to remove uh that non-conforming uh pulse sign. So we got that squared away. also um on signs on non-conforming signs uh in order for them to be abandoned. We did have 90 days in the recommendation and uh Bulma changed that to 365 days which is probably pretty pretty fair because uh as Barry knows when you're selling some of these properties uh it nothing gets taken care of in 90 days. It it takes it takes a diligence period to do that. Also in SR2, they changed the width of SR2 zoning uh from 60 ft to 70 foot. Uh that was a change. And then on EV chargers, the minor EV charging station areas, uh they upped it from 50 feet from the street to 80 ft uh to match uh what major uh uh charging stations were. So, those were some of the different uh changes that were uh that were made uh for that. Uh also, just to let you know that, you know, we'll be having our December the 2nd planning commission meeting and our meeting in January will be on the 6th. And on that meeting on the 6, uh I'll have the year-end report for 2025. And I'm going to go over a lot of different things and I'm going to talk about some stuff about population projections and some some kind of really interesting things uh that the staff is doing uh about population uh

projections. Also just ending uh here my comments uh you know we've got Thanksgiving coming up in this month and you know it'll be December before we're back. Uh but I I just wanted to to kind of end my comments uh just uh that myself and the staff are very thankful to work uh with this uh with this planning commission and um that the planning staff uh remains optimistic about our great about our great community. As you know, we deal with a lot of different things and this planning commission deals with a lot of different things and oftentimes they're negativebased. Uh but uh it's coming from a place in our community where people just care desperately for our community and they're just very passionate about it and I think we all understand that. Uh but I definitely don't want us to forget uh you know to also tout the great things uh in our community and all those things that you know we all we all enjoy those things like you know some of us might be going on vacation and then that feeling you have when you come back to Hendersonville after vacation and what that feels like because you know you live and work in in a great in a great community that is uh you know that is a a very special place. Uh, and so all those different things, you know, that make our community great. I just encourage, you know, everybody as we deal with folks, you know, into 2026 that are dealing with things where we're having public hearings and we're having very passionate, you know, conversations and concerns, uh, that that that folks keep in mind, uh, to also look and, uh, not notice uh, and acknowledge the very positive things, you know, about our great community. And there there are so many uh and this planning commission in the different decisions you've made in this in this previous year uh you know are impacting the future of our community in significant ways and uh I

appreciate that effort and I know this takes time and as I'm talking it's taking more time away from your family but I just want to acknowledge that the role each of you play uh is very important and I appreciate the sacrifice that you not only you but that your family makes uh so you can be here uh asking the questions and making uh informed decisions, you know, uh about our great community. So that's all I had. That was maybe a little bit long, but I just wanted to share that, Mr. Chairman. And I'll ask for a motion to adjurnn, please. So move. I have a motion. I have a second. All All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Thank you. Y'all have a great night. Financial plan. [music]