City Council - Regular Meeting

Good evening.

We've got three different times going on. I've got 5.59. We've got 6.04. Does anybody have another time? I want to make sure we start meeting at 6. We have a minute. Okay. Even everybody's welcome to the Hennessey City Council meeting breakfast at the meeting.

I want to get to the lesson in the case of the president. That's great.

We say thank you for our gathering today, God. Father, we ask that you bless each and every heart that's in the building, God. Father, let us come together with understanding and guidance as we listen to what needs to be said, God. As we say what needs to be said, we understand that we are here for the citizens of Henderson, God. And it's not about our agenda, but what's best for the city, God. We ask that you lead, God, and direct us.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have a motion on the floor by Councilman Davey and seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Walker. Do we have a consensus?

Madam Mayor, there's something I would like to have added as well. Okay.

It's pertaining to a moratorium on So we have a add-on to the add-on. Is that right, Dane?

Yeah. Well, just an additional item to add to the agenda. Yes.

We have an additional item to add to the agenda by Councilwoman Champion. Council, how would you like to proceed concerning the moratorium?

Bake shops.

Bake shops.

Does she make a motion?

She's asking for a motion.

I'll make a motion that we add down. All right.

Do we need a consensus, Madam Clerk? Do we have a consensus to add this on? Anybody oppose? All right. Moving forward to the consent agenda.

We have a motion for an extension of

If there's anything on the consent agenda that you would like discussion on, we should remove it from the consent agenda and add it to new business and then vote on the revised consent agenda.

Yes, some discussion needs to take place on our consent agenda.

I just want to clarify, I had a question that's something I asked when Mr. Paley was here.

And I was just like, all right, so we're going to remove it and put it in new business.

Yeah. So just specify which item on your consent you'd like moved to new business.

Yeah. 2655. Okay.

So then that'll be moved to new business. It only takes one commissioner to ask for that. I mean, you can put it on the consent agenda as revised.

You want to do that before the discussion?

Well, yes, because right now we're still on the consent agenda. So anything you remove from consent agenda gets added to your list.

OK. Do we have a motion for the consent agenda with that capital? We have a motion on the floor by Councilman Dackey and seconded by Councilman . So we have a consensus on this.

Yes. Yes. Oh, OK. I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Thanks.

miss champion yes let's go dancing yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes the motion has passed next we'll have our presentation um we have miss freddie college um presenting i think our breast cancer always um

Good afternoon.

I'm Larry Smith. And Elliot.

My name is Garrett Smith. On behalf of Sister Speak Life, Freda Harris, the rest of the board members here, we thank you all for giving us the opportunity to speak to you today on behalf of Sister Speak Life Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Thank you all for listening to us and city officials, members at large here and in person and also online. Thank you all. So Ms. Freda will give you the highlights, and Ms. Pam will talk about the lights and luminaries, and Ms. Tracy Madigan will talk about those that we have available. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, good evening again. Good evening. And I want to thank you all again for your support. We're back here again this year, Pink Out of, that's our theme, Pink Out of Vance County. So just wanted to share with you, we had a presentation Couldn't get it, yeah, wasn't able to get it pulled up. But you can go online and see it. But I want to share with you a famous, click out this, one color, one called, one county, united, one whole. So save the dates. If you go to Andrews Avenue, you see the book, and it has, save the date on it. It has October 1st. from 5.30 to 7.30 at McGregor Hall as our kickoff. And then it has from November 7th from 10 to 3 at McGregor Hall, the mammogram bus is coming. So just want to share that with you. Then we've passed out, and Doug has cards, he passed out around to the Counsel, please give those. You got it? Okay, thank you. So, Peek Out, we're asking you to take the pledge. And the pledge is basically, if you scan that code, you can go online and you make your pledge that you will get a mammogram, you will tell someone about a mammogram, you will support breast cancer awareness. And also, Pam's going to tell you about the luminary bag. that we have as well.

You can purchase a luminary bag in memory, in honor, for support of anyone that you know of. $5. You can combine it with a bow for $15. These will be lit on October 1st around the circle on the rubber hall and the place to buy them.

it's a neat way to just kind of represent and support someone that's had breast cancer and once again remember the pink bows from last year we will be selling those again like she said tomorrow in the gallery at McGregor Hall from 5.30 to 6.30 and again at that time you can purchase the luminaries and these are battery operated candles so we're not going to They're not lighting it, so you're down.

Box. All of you in support of Breast Cancer Month and Remembrance and also in honor of survivors. We appreciate your support.

They were $15.

Well, if you got to attend the boat, if you just get a boat, it's $10. You just get a luminary, it's $5. You can buy the package deal for $15.

Right. So, you know, the thing about the bow and the bag and we have a registration form that you can fill out. But what it says is lighting the way. Right. So all of this as well is about awareness, but it's about leading the way to the bus. on November 7th. So that's the path to the bus. And as far as the bus is concerned, when we first started, we only had one woman to sign up. So we couldn't do it because she had to have 15. The next year, we got 19. And last year, we had 26 women that signed up for the bus. Out of the 26, we paid for five. So the whole fundraising is about the money goes towards paying for women who are insured, uninsured, and underinsured to get their mammogram. And so we're asking women to sign up who doesn't, you know, have insurance. There's no reason. We've also done a partnership in the process with Mariah Parent Hospital for the old flow. We're just believing that there's going to be an old flow. And so, you know, sometimes think about, sometimes it feels that we have, you know, people, you know, we look at things that we go through. we have nothing in common. But one thing about cancer, I guarantee you that if you haven't been affected, you know someone who has. So that's what we have in common. So we say one color, that's pink. One cause, one county, that's fans, united in hope. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much for this important work that you all do to assist us in life. But they did give me the Breast Cancer Awareness Month Proclamation early, so I could give this to you tonight. So I'm going to read it. It says, where as breast cancer remains one of the most common cancers affecting individuals and families across our nation and communities, whereas early detection, increased awareness, and access to quality care are vital to improving survival rates and supporting those impacted by this disease. Whereas countless survivors, caregivers, medical professionals, researchers, advocates, and community members work tirelessly to bring hope, advance treatment, and move us closer to a future free from breast cancer. Breast Cancer Awareness Month provides a dedicated time each year to honor those who have battled breast cancer, remember those that we've lost, celebrate the strength of survivors, and stand in solidarity with all who continue their journey. By wearing pink, sharing information, supporting local initiatives, and encouraging regular screenings, we affirm our commitment to fostering education, promoting prevention, and uplifting every person affected by this disease. Now, therefore, I, Melissa Elliott, the Mayor of the City of Henderson, North Carolina, do proclaim October 2026 as Cancer Awareness Month.

That would have been fun. Okay. Okay, next we're going to call Mr. Hartwell right up.

Mr. Hartwell right.

See from home. Thank you, sir.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Again, I appear before you representing American Legion 460. And I know you're tiring of me being here, and hopefully this might be the last time I have to come. But as we've discussed earlier on phase two of the fight from the police department, we wanted to put benches, granite benches, to match the monuments. And so we are in a position that we are able to pay for those if they're prepared to order them. So with that in mind, I would respectfully request you allow me to purchase eight five-foot black polished granite benches and have them installed in front of the place.

So that's a beautiful suggestion. Can somebody? All right. All right. All right, we have the motion on the floor by Council Member Davey and seconded by Council Member Venable, Madam Clerk.

Yeah, I think we can get a consensus.

And do we have a consensus?

Yes.

All right, thank you so much.

Mayor, so in conjunction with that, We had a county member, a citizen that wanted to follow up on that donation that Mr. Harbaugh wanted to do and wanted to put up a POW and MIA flag on our purple flagpole. She has been working with the chief and the police, as well as Vance Johnson's assistant chief on her purchase and everything, and it was Miss Kelly Perdue. She would like to do that in conjunction with it. And she says she's not here tonight because she's at the county active permission to put it on that flagpole as well. So in conjunction, she'll be responsible for purchasing the clamps and all the things she just wants to post it when she get permission with the county this Friday.

Okay, council. Is that a consensus? Yes. Okay.

Okay.

Everybody agree with the consensus? Wonderful. All right. Thank you, Ms. Perdue. Okay. Moving on to recognitions. I would like to have Ms. Patricia Biles. Please tell me I'm spelling your name right. Yes. Okay. Come forward. And even though it's not on our proclamation list, we do have opioid awareness, food insecurity, and homeless month. And so in recognition of that, we wanted to honor people in our community. So. Okay, I'm going to read this and then we'll see. Thank you. So we're as Mr. Fisher into a breaking loss of her only child to elicit fentanyl poisoning in 2019 and has since devoted herself to raising her young grandson with strength and love. Patricia serves as the vice president of Lost Voices of Fentanyl, the largest fentanyl advocacy group in the United States. Compromising over 52,000 members, primarily grieving parents who work tirelessly to raise national awareness, host annual rallies in Washington, D.C., and march to the White House with victim impact banners to honor those lives lost. Ms. Patricia is a state representative for the North Carolina chapter of drug-induced homicide, The Poisoning of America. working to strengthen awareness, advocacy, and accountability for lives lost to drug-related poisons. She advances education and prevention by speaking in churches, communities, hosting events, authoring and publishing Death of America's Future, China's Fentanyl, sponsoring youth activities, and advocating for stronger penalties against those distributing illicit fentanyl. She serves as the administrator for Grandparents Raising Grandchildren, offering support, guidance, and community to families who are rebuilding their futures through love and resilience. Patricia and Lost Voices of Fentanyl were recently honored with a private meeting with Terri Cole, the administrator of the DEA, in recognition of her impactful national advocacy. I, Melissa Elliott, the mayor of the city of Henderson, North Carolina, do hereby extend this certificate a recognition to honor the memories and life of, and the legacy of lifelong contributions to music. All right, I'm sorry, go ahead. You guys can walk up here.

I want you to see these. These are four of our teen. We have 58 banners for lost voices of fentanyl. That's kids we've lost all across the country to illicit fentanyl poisoning. These banners are our teen banners. I believe the youngest one that we have on there is 10 years old. I wanted you to see these because I need you to understand that not everyone who is dying has a substance use disorder. You know, we have children dying in this country. My daughter did suffer from a substance use disorder that was brought on by a traumatic event that happened to her after we moved back to North Carolina from Alberta, Canada. My daughter was smart. She was beautiful. She attended the School of the Arts there in Alberta. I moved back to my home country in 2012 with my beautiful daughter in tow. And in a few short years, you know, she passed from an illicit substance that should have never been in this country in the first place. I don't know how many of you are familiar with what illicit fentanyl is. It is not the same thing that you would receive from a pharmacy. It's not made by a pharmacy here in the United States. It is actually made, the precursors are made in illegal labs in China by the CCP. And then they are sent to the Mexican cartel where it is actually put into pill form. It is put into heroin. It is put into meth. Every single street drug today contains illicit fentanyl. Most of these kids, you know, they may have tried something for the first time. There was a time in this country that if you had a substance use disorder, you had years to get your life situated. They're not getting that chance anymore. A lot of these kids died the very first time they tried anything. They may have chosen whatever it was that they did, but they didn't choose to die. The drug dealer that sold them or gave them that poison made that choice for them. I have a friend of mine here. These are my friends. This is Karen Sokocio. Sokocio, she has one of those names. She lost her son in Bramble County. This is my friend, Maggie Cope. She lost her 18-year-old son in Franklin County. This is Brenda Fall. She lost her one-year-old grandchild here in Vance County. I want you to look at their faces. His child didn't ask for anything. The only thing his child asked for was love and the ability to grow up. And that was stolen from him. Josiah, one year old. I have the state stats that we get. This is the latest that I got was March. And they showed every single county, the deaths in every single county. In Vance County, we have had 110. Oh, my gosh, I brought the glasses. 126 deaths. And this is Jesse Liss at Fentanyl. They have been putting the Mexican cartel and the CCP have been poisoning Americans since 2013. I know this because I have been to Washington, D.C. I have sat in with the China Select Committee. I have heard that they have proven that this is an intentional act to poison American citizens. And that's why it is. It's exactly what it is. It's chemical warfare. And I just want to stress the fact it's not a black issue. It's not a white issue. It's not a red issue. It's not a blue issue. It's a red, white, and blue issue.

It's an American issue.

American kids are being poisoned every single day. How many people other than us in this room have lost someone or have known someone that could die from a misdemeanor here in Madtown?

There you go.

You know, I have people that ask me all the time. You heard Melissa speak of what all I do. You know, not only that, I raised my two-year-old grandson. I've had him since he was actually three weeks old. You know, travel around the country. I have had numerous rallies here at State Capitol. Here in Vance County, I usually host one every year. I did not take to host one this year because I took a break. But I did travel to Chicago to a rally. I did travel to Michigan. I was in Washington, D.C. last week, and I will be in Gastonia on Wednesday on stage preaching about illicit fentanyl. People ask me why I do what I do. These are my reasons why. This is my reason why. You know, my only child is dead. I can't do anything for her. She's gone. But if I can fight to save other people's children, then that's what I will do. I often wondered why bad things happen to good people and why someone didn't do something about that. And then I realized that I am someone. If you leave your children a world where you never stood up, they will inherit a world where they can't. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

I have a certificate from a young lady that couldn't come because she just recently had a baby like two days ago. Her name is Jackie Wilson. I'm just going to read her response. She was going to be here as well in honor of Opioid Awareness Month. She wrote and she said, I've been sober since 2014. I have a beautiful family now that is full. I have my husband and my son and now our sweet miracle baby girl. Life is so much more fun sober. Life is worth living. When you're on drugs, you're not living, you're just existing. I've got a very good sober, man future, and it couldn't get any better. I have great supporters and friends, mainly Ms. Melissa. There's been times in my act of addiction, I don't know where I would have been if it wasn't for her. If you want out of addiction, it starts with you. You have to take full accountability, first tell her that you have a problem, admit you have a problem, and then fight it. She's actually walking by zone. Because once you do get sober, you will just see how much you really were missing. I'm telling you, life is so freaking awesome. And this is Jackie Wilson. And again, the National Opioid Hunger, I mean, National Opioid Homeless and Hunger Awareness Day is on February. Thank you. September the 26th, the city of Henderson has partnered with Vance Recovery for this effort. So thank you, Tracy Madigan, and to all of the department heads that are doing the logistics for the downtown event on September 26th, it is from 11 to 3 p.m., and they are still seeking vendors. Mr. Manager, do you have anything to say about that?

No, I think this committee, special events committee, have been doing really well with events lately. I want to kudos to the department heads for making sure everything is covered, insured, and done the proper way, representing the city. So that's it. Thank you.

All right, so we are going to touch on our proclamation really quickly.

We have one more special recommendation.

Sorry, fire chief Twisdale, come on up. Thank you, ma'am. If you don't mind joining us too.

Mayor and council, thank you guys for allowing us a couple of minutes to pay some recognition to our crew and to their leadership, Mr. Battalion Chief Richard Freer. On August the 27th, we were dispatched to our fire station for a child that was choking and not breathing. Fire truck was out training that day, and we're not in their station. Chief Freer was there within seconds and immediately went to work. He's a certified paramedic for the state of North Carolina, National Register paramedic as well. And he's got countless lives that he has improved to call it that. So I felt it fitting to honor him tonight and just let him know how much we appreciate him as a leader in our department and a good provider for the citizens of this county. Zach, would you like to say a few words? Please come up. But the swift action of the chief for year relieved the choking and provided the family with comfort knowing their child would be okay. Shortly after he got there, the Indian crew returned to that location and immediately helped as well. But it's the swift action of chief for year that made the difference in this case. And you guys probably see the little doodads and things that we have on our uniforms. Well, this one... It says five call saves. We actually have to order new ones because it's cheap for you. So this is the sixth documented save of a person who was not breathing and or in cardiac arrest that he has participated in during his career. So thank you for that. Is that one of the correct number? We're going to give it to you.

Thank you.

He's not big on recognition. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Vicia. This is the crew.

Oh, sorry, I'm here. Uh, you get it back. Okay. Every day, every day, 24 hours a day.

We really appreciate you all. All right, we're going to move into proclamations. It's Hispanic Heritage Month. Whereas Hispanic Heritage Month observed from September 15th to October 15th celebrates the histories, cultures, and contributions of individuals from the Latino community. Whereas Hispanic Americans have played a vital role in shaping our nation and our communities through their leadership, creativity, service, innovation, and dedication across fields including education, business, public service, the arts, science, and much more. Whereas the rich traditions, languages, music, food, and values of Hispanic cultures enhance and strengthen the social and cultural fabric of our community, fostering connection, understanding, and pride. Whereas we honor the generations of Hispanic families who have contributed to the vibrancy of our community and recognize the importance of continuing to support opportunities that allow Hispanic voices, stories, achievements to be uplifted and celebrated. Whereas Hispanic Heritage Month serves as a time to reflect on the past, celebrate the present, and commit to a future that embraces diversity, equity, and unity for all. Now, therefore, I, Melissa Elliott, the Mayor of the City of Henderson, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim September 15th through October 15th, 2026 as Hispanic Heritage Month. Councilwoman Hernandez. Since you are our first and only Hispanic member, would you like to say anything about us?

Absolutely. I mean, it's incredibly pivotal for any growing community to have a unified representation, especially at the municipal level, local government and whatnot. What happens in D.C. is not the only thing that affects our daily living. So thank you so much for allowing me to be in this space and for representing a community that for so long has not had a voice. And it's an honor to be part of that.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. We are also doing a proclamation for National Suicide Prevention Month. Whereas National Suicide Prevention Month observed each September serves as a vital reminder that suicide is a serious public health issue affecting individuals, families, and communities. Whereas every life is valuable and raising awareness about suicide prevention helps reduce stigma, encourage open conversations, and promotes access to resources that support individuals experiencing emotional distress and mental health challenges. Whereas prevention begins with understanding the factors that contribute to suicide, recognizing the warning signs and ensuring that people know help is available. Whereas countless advocates, mental health professionals, survivors, families, and community organizations work tirelessly to provide support, education, and hope to those affected by suicide and mental health struggles. Whereas the National Suicide Prevention Month encourages all community members to foster kindness, connection, and empathy while supporting efforts that strengthen mental health services and promote a culture where seeking health is welcome and encouraged. Now, therefore, I, Melissa Elliott, the mayor of the city of Henderson, North Carolina, will be abiding by the claim September 2026 as National Suicide Prevention Month. And as of the date, the city has hosted and coordinated over eight workshops for suicide prevention at no cost at all. All right, moving forward to World Alzheimer's Month. Whereas September is recognized globally as World Alzheimer's Month, the time dedicated to raising awareness, supporting individuals and families affected by Alzheimer's disease, and promoting the importance of early detection, compassionate care, and continued research. Whereas Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia impact millions of people worldwide, including caregivers, loved ones, and communities who provide essential support with unwavering dedication and strength. Whereas increased public understanding of Alzheimer's disease helps reduce stigma, encourages individuals to seek evaluation with symptoms arise, and focuses on violence where compassion and patience are extended to those living with memory loss. Whereas World Alzheimer's Month encourages us to work together to advance awareness, expand support, and champion ongoing efforts and research that bring hope for improved treatments and ultimately a world without Alzheimer's disease. Now, therefore, I, Melissa Elliott, the Mayor of the City of Henderson, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim September 26, 2026 as World Alzheimer's Month. This is our live proclamation for tonight. It is National Recovery Month, and this speaks to our guests that came forward that were honored, as well as the event that will be held on September 26th downtown Henderson from 11 to 3. Whereas observed each year in September to celebrate a strong and proud recovery community, promote new evidence-based treatment and recovery practices, and honor the dedicated services providers and communities who make recovery possible. Whereas recovery from mental health conditions and substance use disorders, if real, is possible and happening every day in our communities across the nation, bringing renewed hope, restoring health, and strengthening families. Whereas supportive communities play a vital role in recovery by offering compassion, reducing stigma, expanding access to services, and creating pathways for every person to live a healthy, rewarding, and self-directed life. Whereas National Recovery Month reminds us that treatment works. Recovery is possible, and every individual deserves dignity, respect, and the opportunity to thrive. Now, therefore, I, Melissa Elliott, Mayor of the City of Henderson, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim September 2026 as National Recovery Month. National Recovery Month is near and dear to me because I am 34 years in recovery. So recovery is best luck.

Thank you. All right. We have a public hearing.

Yes. Public hearing on CAC 2654 of many various sections of the unified development ordinance. So I would now like to open the public hearing for those that are for CAC 2654. Is there anyone here for CAC 2654? Is there anyone here against cap 26, 34, many various sections of the unified development. Is there anyone here against cap 26?

I will now close the public here.

We have another public hearing for cap 26, 56. Rezoning van county tax parcel. 0215-02001A, located at Roanoke Road from an OI office institutional to a B2 highway commercial district. Is there anyone here to speak for that 2656? Was it both?

Yeah, I was going to say something, but you could go back after. Now that we've had the public hearing, we still do need to vote.

Okay. But you want to do, I thought you were going to do a vote.

You could, I mean, you could do it either way. Once you've had a public hearing for each one, you still need to go back and vote for each one individually.

Okay. Perfect. That's what I was wondering.

That works.

Yeah. Okay. Do we have anyone here to speak for CAB 2656? Anyone here to speak for it? Is there anyone here to speak against it? Anyone here to speak against it? I'll now close cap 26, 56 council. How do you have 26, 54.

Madam mayor. I make a motion that we move to approve cap 26 54. Thank you.

The seminars. We have a motion on the floor. Do we have a second? Okay. 26 people. Second.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

And the motion has passed. We will now move on to public comment period on agenda items. And no one has signed up to speak on an agenda item.

So we will move forward.

All business, there will be evidentiary hearing.

Yes. So as you all know, we've discussed this a couple of times. And I've sent an email to the council how we need to proceed on this. I've looked back, I think we're sort of bound by section 18 of our charter, which says that the city council may remove members with concurrence of three-fourths of the council for gross immorality, misconduct, or corruption in office and for incompetency upon a full and fair hearing of charges filed for that purpose. So I think what we need to do is we need someone to sort of present the case to the council because this would be sort of a full and fair hearing as required by the charter. I think that's kind of a quasi-judicial proceeding. My recommendation is that we retain some attorney to present the case to the council for the A motion Mr. Dakey would have the opportunity to have counsel in response to that motion. And we'd have an evidentiary hearing. I guess would be whoever the council retains to present the case would present that case first, present any evidence, any witnesses. Mr. Dakey's counsel would have the opportunity to cross-examine or present, you know, rebuttal evidence. And then Mr. Dakey or his attorney would have the opportunity to present, you know, sort of a response to the case, you know, presented by the attorney. And then the board would, vote on how we would like to proceed. That would be my recommendation for how we proceed with this. And I've done some research on other A motion proceedings in the past, and this is how they've done it. Because the problem, of course, is who presents the case. The other cases, there are two others I'm aware of that were done in the past five or six years, both of whom used that same procedure. They retained an attorney to present the case to the counsel, and then went from there. That would be my suggestion. Uh, and I think at this point I was hoping to have some names of some attorneys who might be able to help with it. Um, but I haven't found anyone yet. So my suggestion would be to authorize a manager to, you know, enter into an agreement, retaining an attorney for that purpose. And then we can proceed, um, with the hearing. Once we establish, if the board agrees with that sort of presentation of evidence, we, you know, it says we can determine our own rules of order and procedure. I would sort of suggest that we adopt that kind of rough guideline for, you know, have the attorney present to the board the case for a motion and then a response and then a, you know, closing statements and then a vote by the council would be my suggestion. I'm happy to discuss if there's any, Any questions, thoughts, concerns? I have a question, Mayor. What kind of costs are we looking at here at Ballpark? Yeah, it depends on. I mean, it wouldn't take a whole lot of hours. But I would estimate probably count on three to four hours for attending the actual hearing, including travel. You know, have some preparation for the hearing of that case. I'm thinking, you know, 10 to 15 hours of attorney time. And, you know, whatever rate the attorney charges, whether it be like 250, 300, that's probably the going rate for something like this. But that would probably be a ballpark.

Any more questions or not?

So, um, um, so as my understanding, you're saying that it has to be an attorney.

I believe it does because it's a quasi judicial proceeding. And so, um, there's some, there's some guidance that says having a non-attorney represents someone at a quasi judicial proceeding. would be the unauthorized practice of law. I do think we probably need an attorney.

Okay, so I guess my question there is you say you believe it does.

Yes, it does.

According to my advice is that 160B, all six of the quasi-judicial procedure, it's not there. I mean, unless it's somewhere else, and I've read the answer.

It would be in the bar rules. In the bar rules? Yeah. Not in a general statute? No, it would be in the attorney ethics rules.

Okay. I combed through this and I didn't see that. That's why.

Okay.

All right. Madam Mayor.

So if I opt to choose to call the bar, will they give me the same information? Yes.

I would like to think so. I mean, attorneys often differ on legal interpretation, but my interpretation is that for a quasi-judicial proceeding to have someone present to the board, we would be better if advised to have an attorney do that.

Okay. If there are no one special attorney has recommended a council seat legal support, part of the council must proceed.

Absolutely.

Okay, I just have a couple of questions. I know initially when Councilwoman Jimenez asked you how much it would cost the city, you said zero dollars.

Well, I was wrong if I said that. I did at some point say I think this could cost the city some money, but... I have realized that I think we need to retain an attorney. I was hoping we didn't have to have an attorney, but I think my best advice would be if having someone present to the council in a quasi-judicial proceeding, that it be an attorney.

Okay. So we have gotten here. We have gotten to this place where we are now behind an email that I sent because I wanted to restructure personnel for the betterment of the city and its citizens. Okay. Okay. So that email was leaked. We had an IT investigation and a police report from the city of Henderson. And unfortunately, we all know the IT report and he's confessed. and I'm not receiving an apology, but it was so good that Councilman Dakey sent my confidential email from Outlook to the Daily Dispatch. I was immediately harassed. I was called numerous times, about eight times in a row. And then I didn't even know that my email was leaked. Okay? And someone asked me, they said, have you seen the paper? I said, no. And there was an entire article on my personnel move before by the time we came to council meeting at six o'clock. Okay. All right. I understand that. Now, Mr. Hartzog, several things I would like to say to you tonight. One, I want to begin with the apology that you gave me at the last meeting.

Now, I know why you gave me the apology.

I know why you told me you gave me the apology, but it still doesn't make me feel better. And I figured you gave me the apology because you're the reason why we're here as well. Now, when this was leaked and Maris Elliott said or suggested, let's find out who leaked her email. Let's have IT look into it and find out who leaked her email. And you said, and I quote, yes, let's find out who sent the email. It's a class three misdemeanor. They should be charged or would be charged. Did not say that. You said, well, class three misdemeanor comes with charges.

Well, I said it's a class three misdemeanor.

You also said you introduced the evidentiary hearing to us.

In response to what our options were.

Right. So the council, we don't have a history of knowing what evidentiary hearings are. You brought that to us. That said, whoever is guilty should go on an evidentiary hearing.

No, I don't believe I said that.

Well, could you phrase to me your response on how councils should proceed with an evidentiary hearing.

Well, it's up to the council how they want to proceed.

Did anybody on the council come up with an evidentiary hearing?

No. I was asked the question of what options do we have to handle a situation with a board member where, you know, the board member has done something the council wants to take action on. We've really got two options. One is a censure. Two is an A motion.

Okay.

The A motion is kind of, you know, a more extreme, a censure motion is a statement of disapproval by the board, whereas an A motion is a legal proceeding to remove the board member from the board.

Now, you know why I get choked up? Because I didn't ask for this. And I can't continue to clean up problems or circumstances and situations that others make. All I was trying to do was help my city make sure that information isn't leaked when they leave closed session meetings like they're still happening. We have a lot at stake. And if we have to hire an attorney to handle this, is it worth as much as information being leaked about the water or about your colleague leaking confidential information to the public. And not only was I harassed by the daily dispatch, which I had to have him block because he continued to call me the next day. It's like it was a game. Now, nobody experienced this for me, okay? I didn't even ask to be a victim, but I know why you apologize to me because Mr. Dainty is not the victim. And I ask you, when I ask you if I possibly wanted to reconsider this as a PT person who deals with PTSD and anxiety, you know, I don't live and sleep and breathe this evidentiary hearing. I am somewhere trying to be at a summit, to be chosen for a cohort, to be somewhere training in finance, infrastructure. Or I'm somewhere trying to learn and be better for my city as a councilwoman and as a mayor of pro tem. So I didn't ask for this. And my personnel changed. I have a forum that I mentioned. I told the 13. And I always am going to have a forum twice a year. Anyone can come to my forum and ask me anything. I'm just that transparent. And I won't talk about personnel issues or why I made this move or why I didn't make that move. but I'm transparent as I can be. So those of you who did not like my personnel move with our former city manager, including WICS John Rhodes, who I have his very malicious email and voicemail, I was the one subject to this. And see, it kind of backfired. You know, I was supposed to be made to look the bad guy because I was doing something malicious and wrong. So let's put it out. She's doing this, doing this. I understand he had supporters, but he did not have a problem with the personnel move that I was making. It was just the people around here. And that's not even to talk about the backlash on Facebook by some of the very people who are sitting in this room. Why? Because I wanted to make a personnel change? Do you have a personal vendetta against me? In the military, we had three different levels of confidentiality, confidential, secret, and top secret, all of which can cause grave damage to the United States if leaked. And that's the same thing that we put into our Outlook emails. We have an entire water system situation going on. So if I'm to go into Outlook and express something on a bill or a committee or something else, How do I know that it is secure? When we have information being leaked from our own closed session meetings, reaching Vance County, reaching Granville County, Franklin County. And I want to address that in closed session. How do the things that we talk about in closed session end up in another county?

That's a very good question.

But that's to be discussed later. All I want to say is, For those of you that think that this evidentiary hearing is something that I'm about to live and breathe and some way I get some magical powers and I asked for this, I did not, you know, I did not. But what I'm not going to do, because it's not the first time, what I'm not going to do is allow a cancer to continue to be on this board, spread that, and try to cause harm to this council, to the structure, and to the city. What good would it have done to send my email to anyone? Now, you came up with three or four different reasons, tried to set a paper, tried to say, hey, you know, I thought it was okay. No, that's not the point. We're talking about a 20 year veteran. And at some point it has to stop because if a cancerous apple sits by another apple, That apple becomes poison, that apple becomes poison, and that apple becomes poison. Okay? Mr. Hogsall, last month when you asked for a $1,500 raise, we didn't have it. I know we didn't have it, but we gave it to you. Now I doubt that we should have, because you tell us one thing in poll session, you tell us something else You tried to get me pretty much to go with in a direction I didn't want to go. You made us vote again at the last meeting. How did you make us vote again? If we had already voted for evidentiary hearing, one person can't say, one person can't say, oh, I'm having second thoughts. And you come in and say, oh, you guys got to vote again. But we did. And I know we're all human and we make mistakes. But what we're dealing with here now is my peace, my governing ability, what I was elected by the people to do, and that was to do the best job that I have, I can do. And it was never to think that a colleague would cause me to not, a colleague to cause me to not want me to be able to do my job. Even if that's your friend, if that's your brother, it's a correct way to do things. You have to, the same person who said we don't need training, you have to get out of this council chamber in Henderson and go get trained with the league, the school of government somewhere. If not, we won't know if our attorney is telling us right. We won't know if our colleagues are telling us right. Thank goodness the mayor sells us right. And if it wasn't for this lady sitting beside me, we all would be in trouble.

So since this affects me, thank you for giving me my 10 to 15 minutes to speak because I don't eat to sleep and breathe.

I got bigger fish to fry. I got children waiting on me to do certain things. Senior citizens. I got veterans. I got trash to pick up. I'm trying to get a no trash bag ordinance in Henderson like in New Jersey. Do we really need trash bags from Walmart and every other store? Yeah, that's passive. No trash bag ordinance. Let's do some constructive stuff. Classic bag, yeah. Let's do some constructive instead of tearing each other down. Thank you.

All I'll say in response to that is that I was asked what our options were. I gave the council the options and I've told the council how to proceed with those options.

And why did you apologize to me?

I apologized to you at the last meeting because I felt like my tone was unfair to you during the meeting and I came up after the meeting to apologize.

Thank you.

Madam Mayor. I know nobody want to hear my story, but I'm going to say it anyway, okay? So I do know it's not personal, but it's a difference in the right and the wrong of things. Yes, I mentioned I was censored. It didn't do them any good because I never stopped talking. And anybody that know me, I know I kept on talking. But I listened. as it was mentioned about how much would it cost the city? There was no concern about how much it was gonna cost the city when the mayor got investigated. So now why do we have to talk about how much it's gonna cost the city?

Because we have to approve.

Exactly. And that had to be approved and it was approved. Had I done that same thing, And that's all a mistake.

Had I done that same thing.

I'll let you all add to it, the rest of it. I'm done. Okay.

I just need direction from the board.

I put that in the recess.

Was the discussion finished on the evidence right here?

I don't believe it was because I need guidance from the board on how we want to proceed.

I would like to proceed with the recommendation from the attorney.

I'd like more time to look into whether we need to hire an attorney or not. I just don't, I just don't want us to have to say, oh, okay. Yeah. I want to see if there are any other options. He was pretty sure. So I'm just like, just to make sure.

Discussion. How would you like to meet for council?

Table it. Okay.

We have a motion to table it. Second. We have a second vote. There's a motion to table back to Mayor Pro Tem Mark, seconded by Council Member Catherine Lee, back to the clerk.

One question, Mayor, I'm sorry. While we're tabling, do I have any assignments?

I just want to make sure. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

How would we proceed in what?

There are any recommendations for that? Do they need to reach out to the school of government?

I mean, you can reach out to the school of government. You could talk to another attorney. You could look at some case law. I mean, that's what I did.

Madam mayor. Okay. Madam mayor, I would like to make a motion. Okay. Oh, we finished this first.

Okay. Yes, ma'am. Um, number one, could we get, um, Then attorney Hartog's recommendation written down and passed on to us. So we will have those for our reference. Okay, so we're amending the motion.

Essentially, it's what I'll put in the email, but I'll be happy to clarify that.

Okay. All right. So recommendation of the city attorney is to seek the school government, possibly maybe the lead in another attorney, along with Mayor Pro Tem's recommendation of getting the recommendation of the attorney to every councilman.

To clarify, I don't think there's board action that is required for that, unless... I was just adding to make the motion. I mean, I think the motion is to table this.

So the motion is passed, but I was just trying to be clear.

They can reach out. Right.

Sure. And lastly, may I ask Mr. Hart? role going forward since you're here?

My role would probably be advising on procedure.

Advising on procedure? Is that the counsel? Is that everyone? Is that the inside counsel?

And the reason for that is I cannot be the one to present the case because I answer to the counsel as a whole, including Councilman Dengue. So I would have a conflict prosecuting one council member. So You'd need a different attorney to do that. Typically, my role would be advising the procedure process.

That is good that we are able to get that resource from you and that we don't have to go out to get that resource from our government board. So I just wanted to know what your role was going forward. Thank you, Maris.

All right. That's the end of the evidentiary interview.

So I guess the question I want to ask is, is it going to be a makeup of people to reach out to attorneys or are we going to?

It's been tabled. Okay.

You're free to reach out to whoever. Okay. Okay.

Okay, moving forward to Tag 2648, Appointment for the Overthrowing of the Rivalry Board. This is a funding work for any more elaborate activities that are necessary. Manager, I have been instructed that we want to vote individually on this assignment.

It's a pleasure.

Counsel, is that a pleasure? Yeah. It's a recommendation. I agree.

Can I ask a question? Absolutely. Where did this come from? I'm sorry, I've heard of this.

I just walked around the table and they said they wanted to vote individually.

So, okay. You walk around the table and win.

Thanks.

No, I'm just asking. I need clarity on both. We I chair a committee that made this recommendation, and now the first item on here is to include San Jose rules. I mean, y'all talked about it, it sounds like, so let's hear it.

Wait a minute, wait a minute, hold up. Hold up. What do you mean, sir, when we talked about it?

It sounds like everybody's talking about it except the committee.

What did you say, Mr. Manager? I heard you. What did you say? You said it. You can vote on it individually. I'm sorry, sir. I don't have meetings. So please don't do it.

So I was asked about what the procedure was. And I say, if we went through the second time, is that the pleasure of the council? All right. What's the pleasure of the council? I was asked about a couple of the candidates that was on here. I said, we already had the meeting as a recommendation. When I was asked about the candidates that was on there, I said, we have to add one more. We let the chairman know about the one that was missed. And then we need to discuss that one. I was asked why we're doing it this way. I said, well, we got to bring the young lady who was missed into the mix. So we got to vote. I don't know how they're going to vote. It's the pleasure of the council.

I'm going to have to want to go and it will be for these members or do we want to move forward with a white horse.

The committee actually be. It's all about having a little swing. But we did miss someone. We'd like to share with you that. Correct. Yeah. But the question of authority is how we're going to move forward, right?

and some of it was approved, some of it was not approved. So how can we move forward and just move on? You think we gonna vote individually or each individual or we gonna vote as a whole so we can move forward?

But with this process, you have to take into consideration, Mr. Chair and the Board of Commissions, that there was a total missing person. So if you want to vote, You've got to figure out how you're going to include the person that put their application in before the deadline was missed. So I will leave that to your discretion. But we can't leave her out because her application is just as important as the other ones that you can see.

No, I get that. But I think this person who was omitted from the original screening, we can certainly include her and the other four that are outside of the city limits of Henderson and We can determine. How many would it be, Tracy? 80. Of the ones who applied who are not in the city limits? It would be five. Five. And we got four slots, right? Four slots to fill. So this body can certainly select those four from those five.

Could we not add them all? Just add one more to the committee. It's two for one, right?

When I came back for the second time, we changed the whole format to represent each ward. So that's why we went from, what, seven to eight from the previous time I wrote up this opioid provisional vote. So, I mean, again, it's one of the situations I told one of the members who was here, or one of the applicants here, that just they will be a voting member, but they can participate. You know, because they did have life experience, but they wasn't selected by the original board.

So but again, it's up to pleasure how you all want to do this.

I mean, again, the candidate that we did miss was this is very first as well. We looked at the application, you know, so it's a tough it's truly a tough day. We can't go without recognizing that candidate and see what's the best fit for the whole board.

I found like the No. We could do it. We want to make a motion. We want to add somebody to it. Am I missing something?

Because what you're saying is basically the same thing she was saying. We're going to vote individual, so it's still making a change regardless.

It's making a change, but it's honoring everybody that applies. It's like

I'm going to be clear. That's not ironing everybody because everybody was selected. So we can't make that statement. That's way too broad a statement. I agree. I was saying everybody to the board.

Yeah, so because out of the eight slots where we had everyone, it would be 11. Three was selected. The other place who applied for that... Yes, three. So one was missing and two was not selected and went to other boards. So it would go from eight to 11.

Is the number set by any policy?

The policy says eight.

I'll say eight. Those could be amended.

That's all I want.

Can I make a point? The one caveat to this is we did eight with a city council member being on the board to if they have an issue with the voting. So it's like whatever, with all our advisory boards, majority of them have a city council person attached to them. That's not a voting member. That's sort of liaison.

It's liaison. The liaison would be Mayor Voltaire. All right. Go ahead, Ms. Thompson. So I guess I'm gonna put this into a motion.

I would like to make a motion that we accept Ms. McKnight based on her professional experience and replace her, replace Natalie Butler. That's right, replace Natalie Butler who submitted after we voted the last time, she submitted her life experience on her aunt based on not what we asked here. So I would like, I would like to make the motion to replace Natalie Butler with Ms. McKnight.

Can we have some discussion, Claire? When you say replace her, this is a list of recommendations. Are you voting to approve them?

She's voting to approve the list with the exception of Ms. Natalie Butler and replacing Ms. Butler with Ms. Mack.

And that's still putting more people on the board?

No, it's not. No, it's still eight.

All right, there's 11. It's done yet.

I've got a question. So our committee left the slate to Steve. And Ms. Butler has done it. She provides in Ward 2, which Steve and I represent. And so what this champion just submitted is that we take someone who provides in Ward 2 out of that slot and replace her with someone who doesn't even live in the city. That's what she's recommending. Now, I mean, I think that's, I don't, can we, is that part of the, I mean, part of the bylaws for this committee?

We have to have, you know, bylaws in front of me here, but is there a residency requirement or is it?

No, experts. She's an expert.

Anyone that's got a question?

I have a question. The rules were changed twice in the middle of this all because there were multiple people that applied from Ward 2 and they wanted equal representation for each ward. So we have two ward people that live in Ward 2 that we are recommending to fill these two seats. And now a Ward 1 rep wants to remove one of them to replace them with someone that doesn't even live in Vance County.

She's an expert.

Replace that with somebody in our city.

Is that the end of the discussion? Can we take a vote, please? I have no regard for anything. Unbelievable. Mr. Seifert, I'm going to ask you kindly to please stop directing threats and comments to me in this meeting. You do it too much. That's why I say breaks. Moving forward. Let's go. Yeah.

Motion. It's a second by council.

And second by council member.

And that's the motion.

Motion to be clear. is to remove Natalie Butler and replace her with Ms. Danetta McKnight. That's the motion. We have a motion by Council Member Jackman and seconded by Council Member Vanden Heuvel. Ms.

Chair, thank you. Ms. Daly? Yes. Ms. Walker? Yes. Yes. No. No. Yes. We have a child. So I would say yes. And the motion is passed. I think that's a new business. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So requested by council members, council members. You want to talk about coding?

I want to speak about coding in our downtown area. I want to mention about this. We've been collecting coding for years. We've got millions of people in the downtown area. We've been doing that for years. No roofs on the building. 423, 425. The construction material in the building, five, no, 10 years. Just six years. 426. Those are the buildings with no roofs in them. 426, 424. 418 is being used for storage. 411, which was the old Beauty Express building. Probably over five years ago. 411, South Army. The whole group is going into the first floor. Save the hazard. The kids go to Ballet Arts every day. to play between those buildings. And we talk about safety hazards. I think that's the worst safety hazard we have in the area. You got falling bricks if you look at the top of the building. those kids out there playing in the middle of the field. That's a problem for me.

Well, I speak on 411. Yes. So I have been in conversation with the owners of 411. We'd have met, the person I met, he was city manager, and I met with him, and they had received their letter. We was in conjunction, we was in conversation about buying the two lots to the left of the building so they could do some type of development. We was talking about residential as well as retail. They brought up... They brought an offer that I didn't think was good for the city. So I'm actually working with Dan. I'm seeing what's a better option for them. But with the option, we are trying to encourage them to take. We're purchasing those lots. I hear the council is ready to inform them in our account. They immediately have to demo with a revert of calls to turn down their bills. But it's just one of those things. But they have received a letter. But I'm trying to work out what we can do to get them down immediately. But also, I don't have to keep things off our cash flow.

Buildings that we own is one way site for the S-line and the other building is the MC block. We heard no more about that. What are we doing with that part of the MC block that we purchased? You're talking about Yonge Street, correct? Yonge Street and back to Yonge Street.

Yes. So we're working with healing services. I'm saying, all right, engineering on a proper way to turn that building down. We've also been working with Joseph Young up in Faulkner, who's virtually a builder, on bending ears until we can find the funds to turn down that property. Well, we had a couple of grants that we thought we'd be able to turn down that property, but we can't turn it down for a parking lot unless we wait three, four years. We can't utilize it. We've got to try to sell it for commercial or things of that nature. But we are looking at options.

317, 309, 321. And 115 and 117 used to be a beauty salon, a glass door, instead of a vacant.

I got 418, 411. You said 117 or 115? 115 and 117.

Yeah, I got 115 right here.

Yeah, so we already talked to them. Roof was in good shape. So, sorry, off the mic. So those property years, we did. Development service sent the roofs out. Initially, we had followed the plan the previous city manager had, was to look at roofs first, then look at windows. Everybody received a letter. And what I'm looking at is, I asked for the development service to give me a report about where we're at. Some people are working on some of those things. Others are looking at, has gone and received a second letter. I've talked to the city attorney about, we have a lot of people we have cited for fire inspection, fire chief gave us a note, development service gave us some citations. We talked to police about certain citations that we have been sitting on because we didn't have no teeth in the game. So we are looking at how we do it. Dan is composing a letter now because we're going to send people letters saying they don't pay their fines and citation by this time. We're going to civil. So those are the things we put in the option based on the information I have, but we have notified everybody in the downtown area.

And building 121 used to be Lamar Fury's store many years ago. I was in the building many times. That building sit there, boarded up by I know over 20 years.

I don't have that on my list, but I definitely check into it. Everybody, we have a five, we have six rules, three are in state, three are out of state that we're working with. We have, based off that number, we have one that says a good repair. We have two of them out of state, one that's intact. So I do want you to know we are contacting these owners to ensure that they come and comply. But again,

So how good is the correspondence? You said you contacted them.

The contact I did, I made, excuse me, I didn't mean to say made. I inspired my staff to contact them through phone. Once we get two phone communication going and we don't get a response, we're going to start taking legal action. We can't keep coming back to this, what's going on.

Because I wanted to make sure we treated everybody clear. And the reason why I said what I'm saying, because experience and I have experienced But Mr. Williams with the everything story on town, I don't think anybody been treated the way she's been treated in the downtown area. To be humiliated, to be handcuffed. Downtown, for what reason, I would love to know. When you come to do an inspection and you get handcuffed because the inspection. I have a problem with that same citizen and another problem I have is. You'd fool her current and you want her to clean up bills and put no current in the bill. So to me, City of Henderson didn't do that. City of Henderson played part in it. And the part we played in it, we should have probably not played in it. But we should try to correct what we played in that. Because we haven't treated any other merchants. We haven't padlocked somebody else's doors in the downtown area. To me, it's unfair. She's been treated unfairly. And you can talk about the fines and all that. If everybody downtown been fined the same way she been fined, they'll probably have the same fines she have. But they haven't. The building right next door to her has been empty, I know, 30 years.

With a building full of junk in storage.

We got to treat everybody fair. We've got to be fair with everybody in that down. Yeah, I want to see that downtown grow, and I want to see it do better things, but we've got to be fair across the board with everybody. So why would we use, we talk about money, and we always want to talk about taxpayer dollars. Why would we use taxpayer dollars to go clean out her building when you can clean your own building? There should be some time frames put on people. Get it done in this time frame. There will never be a time frame.

I was just going to say, I think my understanding is there were those orders of clean.

You have X amount of time to clean. They were extended. And because those deadlines have run, the city now does have the right and probably an obligation if it's a fire hazard to go correct that secret reimbursement. So I think that's where we are procedurally.

How many other people we did like that? Because everybody downtown has got those bills. Some of these addresses I named, they should be in the same predicament. They should be in the same predicament. If she's in that predicament, they should be in the same predicament. Because when we started with it, they said they was going to give everybody 60 days. You had already did what you was going to do to her before you sent out letters and you gave 60 days. So I have a problem with that. That's all I have for the discussion. But let's treat it differently.

discussion, there's something you want to propose? Yes.

I would like to make a motion at this point. And my motion is I would like to allow Mr. Vaughn Williams six months to get the floor level to where she can pass that part of the inspection as she move up to the higher levels. After six months, the ground level, the street level. That's my motion.

I don't know if we leave. That's the sun in my wheelhouse. I can say if that's legal or not. So I'm going to turn to say that we already started a process where we found a lot of the issues. Is it safe?

I guess I didn't bring my that's that's really the more pertinent question. Okay, legally, we do have the right to extend that time. But if it's truly a fire hazard, which it is, then something needs to be done to correct the fire hazard.

Okay, I can understand that. But Correcting the fire hazard. I'm not telling you to give her her lights back. I don't think the building gonna catch on fire just by itself. But she can't do any business. She cannot do any business as she's making that adjustment with trying to get it cleaned out. So I'm not asking to put her lights back on.

She can use solar lights. I think we probably need someone who's inspected that to weigh in here, because I couldn't really tell you, yes, that's fine, because I don't know what the fire hazard is.

So are we pulling any more? Are they going to pull any more meters?

Again, we didn't pull the meter.

But I do want to say that I do get on call at meetings.

And we do detail reports when we have meetings. So my understanding is when I spoke to Ms. Lieutenant, that she wasn't getting clear information. So I definitely make sure I give clear information to everyone.

So did we pass a lock and did we change the locks on her bill? We did that.

We changed the locks on her.

Because we couldn't get in.

Yes, we did.

So why would... Why would y'all need to get in it?

We were trying to get bidders.

Trying to get what? Bidders.

Bidders to clean out the building. So we started it. Yeah, so when we started this, one thing we was doing transparent, we contacted, we sent it out a bid on our social, not social, our website, and there's a newspaper like we posted it. I also contacted her to let her know what we was doing as well, like I promised her.

Make this make sense to me. You said y'all sending out bidders to clean our building. We're talking about a fire hazard. So it's not going to be a fire hazard for them to go in and clean the building, but it's going to be a fire hazard for her to go in and clean her own building.

That's why we have professionals that sit there. We get the bill on there and have the necessary insurance and things of that nature.

Thank you. My question is, and I don't know, maybe the fire chief can tell me. Y'all were saying a fire hazard, but if you're full commuter, there's no electricity there. What's the, and I know it can be flammable product, but if you don't know what's in there, how can you say it's fire-canceled? So what are the fire-canceled?

All right, so do you mind coming up here? Chris, do you?

So, they did, Building in question is a basement in three above-grade floors, and our items were all the way up to within this part of the ceiling of all three floors and the basement. The owner of the building did make a considerable amount of progress to clean up some of those, but the contractors to fix the necessary code compliance items, which from my standpoint, were the most important being the sprinkler system. The contractors could not work because they could not get to all of the sprinkler heads in the ceiling because of the vast amount of materials inside the building. The building is not safe to be occupied and in business due to the amount of belongings in there and the way they were oriented and located. They were not our whips. They were not lights, emergency lights and things. Drop cords running everywhere is doing a pretty good list of things. Things that occur during normal operation and things that do not. The sprinkler system had several deficiencies and things that would require a considerable amount of inspection throughout the building. In other words, every five years there's a certain amount of maintenance that has to be done and every 50 years there's even more maintenance that has to be done. Well, that system is aged out so that it's over 50 years old and the quotes for that work were probably pretty astronomical. So it's a considerable investment that anyone has to make in this building in order to make it suitable to operating in a business.

That being said, I have a question for you. When State Farm remodeled that building, did they put a sprinkler system in that building when State Farm remodeled that building?

It depends. The sprinkler requirements depend on the square footage of the building, the use of the building, and what it's designed for. So depending on what you're doing, the architect and engineer makes the plan. Plans get submitted and approved for or against that. It doesn't basically say yes or no. It's all depending on the use of the building. This graph footage of the business space below. And then I think he's got a conference room upstairs. And those were configured separate. So it just depends on your business. It depends on how many square feet you occupy. Those are your requirements, whether or not you have a sprinkler system. But we're also running into this in different parts of town. If you buy a building with a sprinkler system in it, it has to be maintained and operational at all times. So it doesn't matter much that the occupancy does or does not require it in this instance for this property. It's in place, so it has to be in maintained and in service according to the North Carolina State Fire Code.

From what I understand, there was one there and they asked him to put another one back. He was not going to come here if he had to put it back because it was going to cost him.

I'll have to go back and research the situation because right off the bat, I don't know exactly why he did that.

In the beginning, he had to, and then it changed it. He didn't have to put it in.

His plans were reviewed and approved by both our office and the Vance County Building Code Inspections Office. So it had to go through two parties and be approved by both of them. So evidently, it must have been up to code.

So question, if All of this, the coding and what have you has been done on that one building. Where's the coding information and all of that that's been done on these other buildings that he talked about?

There goes a different animal. So if a building has locked doors and is considered vacant and not in use, it does not have the life safety requirements or the It doesn't have the same set of rules applied to it as one that is open and operated and people are going in and coming out and doing business. Those downtown places that are used for storage, what we may need to look at, manager, and I've counted this too, I do not know if downtown businesses or occupancies are supposed to be used for I believe it's an ordinance against that.

They are not and they have received letters.

Did we see a copy of the letter? Yeah, you know, we had been talking about these letters for At least six to eight months. Talking about getting the code enforcement letters out to the business owner. What enforcements are y'all doing with business owners downtown? So downtown. With Ms. Vaughn-Williams?

So my instruction is from the last CM. That's another problem. Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Okay. You are following instructions from your past city manager.

Well, no one can.

Listen to me first, please.

Okay.

Yes, ma'am. Because Ms. Christy, let's go. I'm a big fan of yours. But my colleague here, Mr. Councilman... Venable overheard you say that. He said you talked to him in a kind of condescending way. He said that you were, you know, evasive. And he said that you said, I'm just following the instructions of my boss, to quote you. I did. Now, if you and Kendrick are on the same page, we're following the instructions of y'all past boss, we got a problem.

No, ma'am. So what I was going to tell you was our former CM instructed me to only send letters for windows and for roofs and not to touch anything else. Kendrick, on the other hand, when he came in, we had a discussion and he has allowed me to pursue anything that needs to be pursued. So the letters that went out previously were just for windows and doors.

How long ago?

Those letters went out? I'm going to have to look.

I ain't got the letter in front of me. This went, again, I don't want to keep saying previously. It started a while back.

Y'all started sending letters out to the business owners downtown when the former CM was here? Yes, yes. Okay, so how many letters y'all think you sent out to how many businesses?

Give me the list, Kendrick. You get your list. Yes, I do. If not, I got one.

No, it's right here. It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 on roofs and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Eight on windows.

Okay, and you're basically asking the business owners to get their windows and their roofs up. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And you sent those letters out, let's say, within the last six months.

Yes.

And have you gotten a response? So never.

they're saying that they're going to fix them or yes if someone started the process of fixing them other ones did not accept the letter so we made a phone call that's why me and dylan had a conference a deep conversation on the ones that we have a citation for how can we get our money okay so lastly i was just trying to wrap my brain around the reason why you all went to the expense that you did with miss fawn williams was because she was

Yes, ma'am. She was operating. When you padlocked her building, did you give her a key?

No, ma'am. The attorney said that we could padlock it and we did not have to give her a key.

This lady had access to clean up, but only access if she was going to be able to come in and clean. Can you tell her that?

When we padlocked it, it was our understanding that the city now had possession of the building and what we were told to do was to find someone to clean it out. Okay, and your understanding came from the previous city manager?

No.

So who was your understanding from?

No, no, no.

Our understanding was, where did that understanding come from? Because let me just say this, this is why I'm being passionate tonight, because I've been here three years, and some of this stuff we've been asking for a while. We've been asking for the downtown, the things that get letters sent to, addresses, this, trying to help Ms. Tracy Madigan with things downtown. And out of the, I've been here almost three years now, the only thing that I've seen y'all do for downtown is with Ms. Vaughn Williams. And now y'all have had a business owner who's been downtown for over 20 years, You know, fair is fair to only one. You know, I had to use one of Maris' terms, targeting. You know, and then you lock the building and you don't give her a key, but you say, and I'm not talking to you, but this, we all need to be fair.

No, I understand exactly what you're saying.

It's the same thing. It's the same thing.

It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. Will somebody come in and do? If somebody be in, they come in, they're throwing away everything. So what do her Kasani's do that's got Kasani in it?

My understanding was that she was given multiple opportunities to remove the things from the building.

Okay, maybe she needs a few more opportunities. She's sitting right there with a bandage on her eye, a senior citizen.

Do we have a second? I'd like for her to get a key.

Well, she motioned that she get her brother back. Okay. And have six months to clean the bottom level.

Okay. Second. Given the fire hazard, should it not be cleaned the entirety of the building? Yes, it was.

Did the sprinkler system have to be operational? What's the size of that building?

40,000. 40,000 square feet. She's 70 years old. We expect her to clean the entire building in six months. That's unrealistic. That's unrealistic expectation. We know...

I'm sorry. With the place around, I just want to make sure we're not caught.

I think he said we're fine.

I mean, we have a legal right to spend her time. But for the site, I just want to make sure what we are, what my staff has cited her for. I want to make sure we're not liable if something happened. What exactly is that, sir? I'm talking about if it's a fire hazard or somebody get hurt because we opened it back up because we started the process based on what the information we had and the staff did.

Can she work along with the bidder?

Can the bidder still come?

I contacted her. She could tell you. I contacted her and the two people that she brought with her to talk to me. to talk about the bidders. I did all that.

Is it possible for her to speak?

You signed us. It's not an agenda, but it's on the agenda now. No, I'm ready. Sure.

Anybody have a problem with her sister speaking on behalf? As we can see, she's slightly injured. Her sight is restricted. And would you come up now, Ms. Maris, would you please do it?

Thank you for your time. I'm Sandra Hubbard. I'm a board member of Vance County Learning Center, which operates the Everything Store. 303 South Garnett Street. So on April 16th, this is when this all began, 2025, The store was besieged by city, everybody, fire, code enforcement, police officers. She was arrested. They presented her with a warrant to search her store. They arrested her, handcuffed her. She was three weeks out of the hospital from having a heart attack. She is blind. She had surgery this morning, at 6.30 this morning. So she has been fighting this. She is a senior citizen. She has been in business in downtown Henderson. At that location 20 years, 10 years further down the street. That was April 16, 2025. On April 17, the very next day, power was turned off. The building was tagged, do not enter. everything ceased. Store was basically out of business. No customers were allowed inside. Not only was the power taken down, but the meter was also removed from the building. So basically, she was out of business that day. So to suggest that Somehow it's going to spontaneously combust while the store next door that's been empty, well, not empty, filled with all kinds of crap and storage for 30 years hasn't spontaneously combust. Not sure how hers will without electricity, but this has been going on and on and on. We were given a list of things that needed to be repaired and restored and aisle lifts and all those things. And we began working on that in the dark, in the dark. Because aside from a little section of the first floor, there is no power. There's no lights on the second floor. There's no lights in the basement. There's no lights on the third floor. But we worked like coal miners with headlamps and power and solar lighting to try to get this done. Every time they came back to re-inspect, they dangled in front of us. Yeah, yeah, you're almost there. You're almost there. The extension cords have been removed. We literally have the thing that you were citing We literally have reports where they said, oh, you've done a wonderful job. They're all gone. This hazard's gone. They measured our aisles. You're three and a half feet. First floor's done. It looks great. But oh, we found five, six more things. We get those things done. Wow. Well, it's not that you don't have the fire extinguishers. We're just not having the size of them. And again, that carrot was dangled. We'll get your power back on. You just need to do a few more things. This went on and on and on and on and on. Until we got to the point where we received a certified letter, I believe it came from your office. It was dated sometime in January. However, the post office or whoever delivered the certified letter found some woman staring in the window shopping on the sidewalk, had her signed for that letter. In January, late January, I'm not sure when she actually received the letter. We didn't receive a letter until February 26, 27, something like that. The lady found me at the library. She's quasi-homeless. I worked at the library. She came there and said, I think I have a letter for you guys that I got. When I come back in a couple of days, I'll bring it to you. And she brought us that letter at the end of February. In that letter, that was the first time they said, repair, bring into compliance, or demolish. telling us to do that by March 10th. So we had basically 10 days to comply with that letter when we received it. We obviously went after the post office, we filed a complaint with the postal service, we did all those things. We then immediately called your office, city's office, trying to get a hearing. And we were told, well, we're not really setting up a hearing right now. We're changing city managers. We've got this going on and that going on. We're not able to set up any hearings right now. We will keep you posted. Fast forward. Now, we've had all these inspections. We had the Sprinkler system inspected, the Sprinkler inspectors. We passed the inspection. The Sprinkler inspection inspector sent that directly to Bob Rouse's office. Excuse me, ma'am.

Yes. Yes, ma'am. Our fire chief says you didn't pass that inspection. We passed that inspection.

He said he didn't even receive it. We were told you didn't even receive it. Now I'm just saying, you got it, but we didn't pass. Ross told us that we did not pass, and he couldn't find it at all. He couldn't find it. It never happened. We had them resend it, and they resend it. We were under the impression that we passed. The copy that we got said that we did great. I mean, it's an old building. It's an old sprinkler system that had been updated, and it is working. They finally found that. But again, we were back to, yeah, a few more things, a few more things. Finally, on June 17th, we received a call from Chrissy Lister. And she said she wanted to meet us at the store. She's very vague. Just meet me there. We had never met her in this whole process because she was fairly new to her position. We never met her. We weren't sure what she wanted to meet about. We just happened to be downtown and said, let's just go over there. and meet with her. When we got there, she said, hey, I am Christy Liston. Again, the sidewalks swarming with people, swarming with people. I was there. Ms. Vaughn-Williams was there. They said, we are here. We just want to determine that there's no one in the building. We said, well, of course not. I mean, we haven't let anybody in the building since... April of 2025, you've got it tagged out, we can't let anybody in, no one's inside. They videotaped us saying, yeah, there's nobody inside the building. She's like, fine, you can proceed. In which case they chained up the doors, padlocked the doors, and walked off. We got no documentation. We weren't sure what was going on. We tried contacting them for hearing. They did not take our calls. They never gave us any paperwork, any type of follow-up whatsoever with this. And that was the first time that we heard that the only remedy here is that this building is empty to the bare walls because we are going to demolish it. That was June 17th of 2026. When we first met up with them and the day they changed the building is the day we first heard that we could no longer repair, that the only remedy was for us to empty the building. But of course, it was padlocked. We didn't have a key. So at that point, we couldn't move an envelope. And that was the first time that we heard that our only remedy would be to empty it to the bare walls. And that is impossible for us to do if we don't have access to it. Then, of course, fast forward to September 5th, you're running an ad in the newspaper, taking bids for people to come in and take everything out of the building. We have not even had that opportunity. We have not been able to get back inside this building at all. There's a lot of personal items in there. This is a consignment store. It's not just a thrift store. It's a consignment store. There are over 100 consignees. That's what the belongings in there belong to. Citizens of Henderson. And you're going to advertise for someone to come in, take everything out and demolish it. And we've not been afforded that opportunity. The day that we were told that that was the only remedy was the day that it was padlocked and Chrissy Lisbon walked away with the only key.

That was June 17th.

That was June 17th. The other day, we drove by the store and there was a locksmith. I have photos. There was a locksmith outside drilling the back door lock and changing the key to the store. So I guess you guys can have access to the store. We don't have access. Here, it's still padlocked, still changed. And now you've changed the key to the door without notice. We've heard nothing. We just happen to be driving down the street. Again, I work at the library, drive by there every day. This is a, I don't even have the words for it. I am a real estate broker for 35 years. In addition to being a real estate broker, I have a certified instructor, one of only about 90 in the state of North Carolina. I'm considered an expert. I have never in 35 years seen anything like this. And the way that she was treated, handcuffed, I went to the store the day that she was handcuffed, sitting in the store, sitting in a chair crying, knowing she was three weeks out of the hospital from a diabetic, keto, almost a coma, and a heart attack. And she's sitting in a chair, her hands handcuffed behind her back. They wouldn't let her get up. They wouldn't let us in to comfort her. And a police officer standing by the door, blocking the door as if he expected her to charge him and run out of the store. I don't know what was going on, but this, I have never seen anything like this in my life, nothing. And there are stores literally with no windows, with roofs caving in. Hallelujah fashion still is operating on the first floor and the windows are gone and it's wet and the roof is sagging from the water. I went in there and bought a tie for my grandson's graduation. They are in business. And it is definitely a hazard, but no one's being treated like that. You're not going over there handcuffing him. So this is an amazing miscarriage of justice, of everything. And I've never seen anything like this in my life. Thank you. Thank you.

So there's a motion on the floor. There was a second. City attorney, can you please guide the, the council on what needs to happen next?

Well, so the motion on the floor is to allow an additional six months to clean, um, the first floor, I guess, um, probably need to at least address the timeline for the rest of the building. Um, we do have the authority to extend that timeline. I'm not an expert on building safety, so I'll defer to, you know, our staff who knows what they're talking about with those things. But we do have the legal authority to extend that time. I will note my understanding, at least, is that notices of violation were provided with time to, you know, times designated to remedy the issue, and those times came.

Okay, so at the attorney's recommendation, He's saying legally you can do that for six months, but he would prefer or recommend that the council would give timelines for the rest of the building if you're going to move forward with the motion.

Yes, ma'am. I understand. Could you tell me the current timeline? What was the current timeline before we amended? It was six months. So it's six months starting for the bottom floor. Just for the bottom floor. And how does that work with the bidder?

Well, we're going to have to cancel the bidder.

So we're going to cancel the bidder and give Ms. Vaughn-Williams six months to clean the first floor of her building. To whose satisfaction? City inspector. City inspector. Okay. Would that include? Yes.

It probably won't have to be city and county in space.

Well, not that we have the authority to buy now, but the county could proceed with their own enforcement actions regardless of what we're doing.

So what I was going to say was, yes, the county is involved in this. Because it's not just the fire department and the sprinkler system. There is a structural issue that the county has put against the building. And that's the reason the power was pulled by the county. It's a structural issue. It's not because it wasn't cleaned. That's code enforcement. Fire is a sprinkler system. And then the county is because it's a structural issue with floors. Got it. That's what Bob has got them on. And that's why the power was pulled and no one's allowed in there.

So that's the two things in the top.

Yes.

Several floors sagging in the corner. Yeah. But just please keep in mind that the Franco system cannot be put back into service until all of it is tested and inspected. The lady who spoke She says it was inspected. She is correct. It was inspected. The notice of violations were sent to them, but none of them have been corrected. They were only inspected. So just remedying one floor will not enable the occupants to have the sprinkler system tested and put back into service until all of the floors have been done.

I need more than six months.

Yeah.

So my thing is, I think the six months will be a start and then go back in and see what they have done and how much they have moved forward. And then more time needs to be allotted, a lot more time till you get the building completely cleaned out to where you can go in and do the work that needs to be done to the building.

And I think we're fine with that. We are. I just want to make sure we are not lying. We have done this for, and this is what I was a record spotter, Charles Street, Harry Street. I want to say you're going to come back and fix it. Give me a couple more times. Give me a couple more months. And we have satisfied that. But I do, it's your pleasure. I really want us to be consistent with everyone because we are, Chrissy and Fire Chief and just county and the city are working really hard on these tasks. You want the needle to move. We are moving the needle now. So I just want to start with you. A lot of people, we come up here every council meeting. So let's get ready for long nights because we are going to enforce. But Dan is helping us see what's the best route to get funds. Because she gives a list of people who are not paid. And we are going to try to get those funds. So just know we're going to have this long meeting like this from here on out. And I'm fine with that.

We're getting more traction on the enforcement of these issues in the past couple of months than we have in years. I want to go back a little bit.

I understand, like I said, six months first flow to be completed. before the second floor started, correct? So we already got the motion on the floor. We're going to do six months. Six months for the ground level floor.

What is the rush to get her building cleaned out for four months? The rush for getting her building cleaned out first floor, second floor, handcuffs, the county structure. all padlocking, locking her out. Let's demolish it empty. I just wonder if somebody wants to build it. Why is there a timeline even needed if she's already out of business? Why does she need a timeline if she's not in business anymore? What's the timeline for? There's lots of reasons why you might want

downtown to be refurbished and, you know, buildings that are unsafe.

Yeah, but we need an engineer for that. We need an engineer to come downtown, draw up some plans, say what buildings need to be knocked down, what buildings need to be saved, and go ahead and give up the downtown plan.

So I don't want to see any buildings knocked down. I never said anything about turning a building down. I said cleaning the building out. But our timelines are dictated by 160D, which is pretty much, and I hate to use this word, but it's the Bible of code compliance. We have a timeframe when we issue a citation or a document Notice a violation. We have a certain time frame by 160D that the state says we have to follow. We extended that multiple times.

More times than we should have, to be honest.

So, I mean. You said about 30 days?

By year. By year? By year.

How about 411 South Garnet Street? Because they had a tag on it too. So what was the timeline on that? That's a good express for the whole roof, the whole top floor to the bottom. What was the timeline?

That one was put on there years ago, if I'm not mistaken.

Correct? When Corey was here. I understand that. Okay.

I am trying to get back up to speed on all of these buildings and go through each case to make sure that we're following what we need to follow.

And that is one of the main things that you hit the nail on the head. Yes, ma'am. Because you hold three jobs. You hold three jobs in the city of Henderson. Yes, ma'am. And you can't efficiently do the three jobs at one time. You have to concentrate on one job, and you should not have three jobs.

You should have one job, and one job only to do for your pension, whether that's being a city manager, whether that's being a board of director, or whether that's being code enforcement.

You're going to have to pick one, Christy. You're going to have to pick one. Yes.

Yes. It's motioned on the board.

Our mind's involved. Is the council's pleasure person who made the motion is six months viable? Is a year viable? We have a motion and we have a second. Oh, can we move forward?

We have to vote.

Yeah, you have to vote, but is the motion to give her six months or give her a year for the bottom floor? What do we, what do you guys?

I really think you need to, yeah, I really think you need to, that the building code office has a say in this as well as the fire code, because these, like Ms. Lipscomb said, these violations have been ongoing for years. Okay. They did not just arise.

Right. And nobody tried to enforce it for years.

Exactly.

I mean, I understand. But, you know, don't come to my house and tell me I got to do something. Then turn around and come back to my house once I do it and tell me I got to do something else. If it's a list of stuff I got to do, make it plain. Tell me what it is. You got to change this. You got to do this. Tell me all at one time. Don't come back and all of a sudden mysteriously find something else that you need me to do.

Ms. Champion, in all due respect, many of the issues cannot even be visibly seen until some of the materials are moved. So when she began cleaning out and making space, I told her, ma'am, you've done a good job. Because she did. She made a lot of things move. But some of the violations could not even be visible to the inspectors until the items were moved. It was that much belongings inside the building.

Again, we are about the community and trying to change the narrative of what's going on here. And so, again, that's why I brought up Charles Street and Farnan Street. You want to give them more time. As a city, we can give them more time to clean up. But we just want to make sure it's clear and transparent. There's other... dealers and shufflers around here, which is the county, that may not feel the same way. So if she can clean up our building, again, I think we should because we have gave a standard olive branch to several other homeowners and businesses before. But I just want us to get ready because we're going to do this again. I'm fine. They're doing a great job. They're following my instruction right now to enforce everything we're doing.

I don't know what violations or all of that that listed or been passed or have not been coming to compliance. What other than, I know you said a fire hazard, what other violation that would hinder her going back into the field? Of us giving her time is not going to be detrimental to someone. If they go back in and clean up, something's not going to happen or What is holding her out of the building now that we can work with?

From my standpoint, it's the file code violations, and the building code has their set as well. That's the holdup. She was asked to provide a structural engineer's report to document what needed to be done to solidify the construction integrity of the building and things like that. Did she ever provide that? She had several people look at it.

Nobody was licensed.

You contacted her back and I know one guy was a scam, right? We're working on it. She just didn't have the right people.

Is there a list that can be compiled to be passed on to her? This is what we need. I mean, I would definitely make sure that she got a solid lesson today. Something to show her what definitely needs to be done.

I would definitely give her time to work on some stuff and, um,

She needs to work on the most important things and go through the list.

We had a meeting with the county before, like we do monthly on certain cases, like we've been doing lately. So I've been involved. I would definitely give her my opinion and we'll get with the county and see what that list is and the pilot. And I make sure she gets it.

We don't want to put anybody in danger, but, you know, if she's been there over 20 years, if we can, you know, worked with her and I know it's been a while and I understand all that. And I know how we do sometimes, but we've got to get back to the fact that we're here to clean up the whole Henderson, not just downtown, not just one building. And the same thing that we do with this one building, we need to do for the surrounding building.

And as you see when we get through the rest of the meeting, you'll see that that's what we're doing. We're holding developers accountable.

I know y'all have been working, but again, I'd say this is a veteran of 20 years. What can we do to help her? And then closing, I do appreciate and I respect what Chief Twisdell has to say. And it's basically the building code and fire and the county was structured. So what would you recommend looking at this, looking at the whole picture, taking in the fact that we want to give her an extended time, but she has, you know, a lot on her plate. That sprinkler system is, I'm sure. Yes.

And so what would you recommend? I think she's been conveyed this information to her many times. But I believe the worst was getting a structural condition report and remedying any structural concerns prior to spending any time, effort, or money on the other violations. Because if she brings it out and fixes the sprinkler system and the structure is not being saved, then it's a moot point. I would go for the structure first. Satisfy it. I don't want to jump in front of you because it may be other items as far as those things are concerned. But as far as investment purposes and amount of time and effort she's put into the building, I would say structural and then proceed down the line with fire violations.

That's what I'm worried about. Allow me to get with the whole team, because again, we can give them a list on our side and it's null and void if the county says something different. So if we're going to work together, we can work on development service. We're going to work together. Let's get together a comprehensive action plan. Yeah. that she can get, and I make sure it's teased across the aisles or dotted, so she can have it, and then we can move forward with that then. But giving them what they think and they don't have the information in front of them is probably not going to be the best idea to get a quality report she needs.

OK, we have a motion on the floor. And a second. Is the motion to give her access for six months for structural, fire, cleaning, safety, Is it for six months or was it for a year? Six months. So six months. Okay. And then there was a second by Council Member Venable. Madam Clerk, please take the vote.

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Just to clarify, Councilman Noel left, but his vote would be counted in the affirmative.

Yes. Unanimously.

Yeah. Okay. I just want to make sure the record.

All right. Is that all about quotable for downtown? We'll move on. Okay. All right, tab 2657 under new business is an exceptional grant award from the U.S. Department of Justice 2025 BBA Justice Assistant Grant Program. Mr. Manning, I'm sorry. Steve.

Good evening. Good evening. This grant is one that y'all have already, this is just, y'all already approved us going forward. share to the county and make the process.

Like to make a motion that we accept. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. We had a public safety meeting as well as a public work meeting a couple of weeks back. And, um,

Worked with the team about finding options on how to get the sidewalks cleaned, the overhang, the lights cleaned, the tree limbs off the power lines in our city. I had a great meeting with Mr. Frank Carpenter last week as well. That's how we get these stairfares and stuff up in the area. And Christy Lee came up with a great idea about using some of our reserve front from water sewer on the power line. water and sewer farm and preserve farm to purchase this truck so we'll be able to accomplish some of those tasks that we had from that meeting. They're doing it well, but it's not too safe for them to continue to use the drive-along lift to get around these trees. And also, with all the flags we're putting up now downtown and all the banners and stuff, this serves a purpose where we're going to continue to work safe, but more efficiently.

Absolutely. Salute. Make a motion that we accept cap 26, approve cap 26.

Second. I'm really going to ask you that question right now.

Can I get back with you on that?

But I trust Lee and Christy's judgment. We've been having a lot of tasks that have been awarded us from those meetings. And again, we can't stay in front of the eight ball. We don't continue to work that in a more positive way.

I'm sorry. That's going to be an issue. You're going to tell me. Yes, sir. It would be nice to know how much you slept in there. Question.

When we use other, is there a fee attached to

renting or contracting?

Yes. We've been so active. We've been renting a truck. We've been renting for weeks at a time just to keep the cars down, to safely put up banners, cut around trees. Again, it's just one of those things where I need to invest and we're going to keep the thoroughfares clean and the power lines and things clean like we're talking about throughout the whole city. Not just going to be used for downtown, but it's going to be used everywhere.

We have to use per event or per contract that we asked them to come in and do?

Well, the city doesn't. We bought a smaller lift, but it's just unsafe with all the badness we have. We got 13, 14, then Breckenridge Street lost. But every event, we have a lift truck. We are spinning around Lee, correct me if I'm wrong, $2,000 every time just to put the banners up and down or put the Christmas lights up and down. With the special events schedule we got now, we have to work with the city and with the county to see when we're going to put the car show stuff up, the banners for America 250, Christmas lights, African-American, what's that? So we sort of put that in the schedule about that. But again, we don't have to do so much with the pull-around lift or... lift on the truck if we want to continue to look at the power line. When we start cleaning up, not schemes, but 30 Highway 39 and Andrews Avenue, we got a lot of complaints, not a lot of complaints, but we got a lot of complaints regarding getting that power line cleaned in the city. So again, this is one of those things that they can officially do their job.

It's a great investment. I've got to thank you for joining us. I was just nevermind. There's a motion and a second. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. yeah yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

So.

So looking at what we currently have, we've been doing a lot of training for the opioid settlement funds. We introduced the CAF and resolution for this a while back for the Two companies, one event, and one city-wide Narcan distribution. But we had to do it the correct way. Based on when I started to submit the form, they did not get accepted. So I had to put the strategy in for each one, how much it costs, and put a time frame on it. So this resolution, it can't be just to correct the format of the resolution. not changing the money or anything, but really attaching to the strategy and the effect of what the funds are being utilized for by adding a timeline. As you know, the funds don't come all at once. We get them so why they want a timeframe on them because of some fact that currently we don't have the funds in our account to cover some of the things. So we got to be able to tell the people we awarded this is when we possibly get it back. So we're going to allocate them. So this just clean it up for the people that we just work with.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

And the motion is passed before we have 2660. Financial consultants and financial plans.

Yes, Mayor and City Council. This is just a caveat to us getting out a quick water lake in the future. It's a good start in the process of how we're going to set up weather and commercial vendors for it. commercial given waterways in place so we won't be selling water for giving water away. So we've got to have this study so we can be able to execute the right fee schedule for community as well as the city fund.

The community?

No, commercial.

Commercial waterways. Commercial waterways. So we'll make sure this study is not too big.

Is this a fee for this study?

Yes.

Now, the study that we had last year, beginning of this year, on the water rates, water payment residential, how the fees would go up over the course of the first year, two years, three years. This financial consult engagement is going to find something different from what we've heard about.

Correct. Yes.

is the one who did the study two years ago and set the city's rates for two years in a row, 25 and 26. And then they're coming back in because at the time Shay and I worked with them on the rates and we only wanted to do two years to see where we would stand and then bring them back to do the next five to seven years. That's expensive.

Why didn't we get them to do the five when they were doing the two? Was there your expertise?

They're mine and Shay's. Shay is a master at water bill and she does the city's rates and all. We had done regionals for 10 years. The city did not go up on the rates when regional started going up on their rates. So Cheyenne, I spearheaded it and brought Cheyenne because she knows the water billing to the customers and all. I needed her expertise on that part. But because the city did not go up when regional went up, then the city was losing money.

Well, then... That study was over the course of five or six years, I thought, initially.

Regionals was 10. Raftelis only did two for the city's rates.

Yeah. So according to the inside residential rates from the fiscal year, I have it in my book, we do have water rates for 2027. So are they doing 2029?

So we've got them. We had them for this July 1st and last July 1st. So FY26 and FY27. Yes, ma'am. But it's technically July 1st, 25, July 1st, 26. Correct.

Okay, and we need RAP TELUS to come in and do another survey to determine how much we are going to raise the regional?

No.

It's commercial.

We need to do that. Yes, it's Henderson's rates to their customers and commercial. Yes, it is Henderson's rates.

Christy, I was looking back at our previous meeting minutes from August 10th when we talked about when Shea gave the presentation. So kind of piggybacking off what the mayor was asking. So we approved rate increases in fiscal year 25. 26, and 27. We're currently in fiscal year 27 at this second, right? So will RAPTELIS come in and basically do another study for fiscal year 28 and how many years out?

We're looking at five is what we had talked to them about.

Okay. So 33. Is that the answer? That's good.

Thank you. So that five-year fee won't exceed the $55. No, ma'am. Five years.

Yes, ma'am.

That would make more sense. Okay. And I guess we see that the last one was done in 24.

Question, is this the only agency that does that? Was there a second bid?

We talked to a couple back when we first used Raftelis because they're familiar with our system and they have all our rates and our histories and stuff on that and our contracts. We went back to Raftelis to get a quote from them.

Okay. With the quote, was it a big difference in the quote? Because if we, I don't know what we paid them two years ago, but $55,000. almost $56,000 and they have a majority of the information already at hand. And I'm looking at it, it says 193 professional hours and it's only one meeting, only one where they come in and do the presentation. You know, the citizens are still adjusting. So am I understanding that this stay will not affect the local citizen. No, ma'am. The customers. That is not correct. Only going to do Franklinton or whoever they awarded to. No, ma'am.

It is all of Henderson's customers, commercial, industrial, residential, and the bulk customers. Yes, ma'am.

And that's because regionals rates went up.

I guess I'm not understanding. When you say residential, what are you referring to?

Citizens, individual households.

That's what I thought.

Yes, ma'am.

So this study could possibly increase their rates again. I have an issue. These people are still fussing about the rates that they have now. And we're talking about paying $56,000.

It's not that we will. We need to see where we're at. And according to what regionals rates are, see what Henderson's rates need to be.

So when Sean did this slideshow presentation, there were rates included.

That's regionals. Yes, ma'am. That's the regionals. Yes, ma'am.

All right, Council, how do y'all want to proceed? I should prove that.

Thanks.

Yeah, the votes are on the floor by Councilman Davey, seconded by Van Frunten-Walker and Clayton.

Van Frunten- Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Yes. Again, like I was stating earlier that we were really trying to get dirt moving throughout the city of Henderson. I remember this group, they've been to us previously with our P2P developer partner group. Originally, we wanted to buy three lots on First Avenue. But again, me and Chris have been working with them and telling them we want to try to get them to take a whole several blocks, parcels on that block. This is the first time we're going to ask the developer to pay up front. We asked them for these funds up front with a three-year revert clause for them to build and have it back to us. It would be just in the MRU, but it also would be in the Indeed, they are understanding that this three-year regulatory call starts as soon as the deed is put in their name, and we need to see some action put in. But the great thing about it, they'll be paying that 30% for the property, equaling the total I got on the cap.

Any questions? I will admit most to the cap 26. Second.

I have a motion on the floor by Council Member Venable. I have a question, Mr. Vann. Did they give us any type of familiar development during affordable housing? Did they state about how many houses they would build on these 20 lots or not?

No, again, the game was a roundabout number, but when they added other lots, the other next four lots, I didn't get a total of what it was.

Thank you, because that was the first we lost. They said it was nine houses, I believe.

Yeah, the original plan, because the one thing we had to check in and make sure our orders allowed them to use Timberville. And once we confirmed that, we was able to then add some more parcels so it would be more beneficial.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

We also do have the one item that we moved from consent to new business.

Oh. Oh, not the consent. Okay.

So. Okay. I don't know.

I don't know. I spoke with the previous city manager.

He was going to check into this. And it says here that these records are found to be important and are being recommended for approval. And I'm looking at these. Some are listed as deletion taxes that we are trying to give them a reduction on. And what I'm really my biggest piece to this is not individuals. It's, um, rentals, um, landlords. I have an issue with us reducing their property tax when they increase our citizens rents. Yes. And if they get a reduction, the citizens does not see a reduction in their monthly rent. So I have an issue with them having, um, tax relief and it's not carried across to the citizens so would you please check into I don't know how they come up with what they use but I really have an issue with rental landlords getting tax relief that's not being given out to the people that they are charging rent to And right now, rent in Henderson is astronomical, and people are complaining. And a lot of them, and I don't want to say some lawyers, but a lot of them are not fixing their houses up to the prices that they're charging these people for rent. Everybody should have safe housing, safe, affordable housing. So would you please look into this?

Yes, ma'am. So I meet with the county manager every other week. And we are working on things, trying to get this intergovernmental board going so we can fix a lot of the relationship between both boards, make it better. But also, we're talking about tax. just like us, they got a system antiquated where they can't bust out. I'm actually able to really report to us like which ones are good reduced rates and why, which ones are in the city. I ain't worried about the county, but in the city, which ones are on diversionary plans or actual payment plans. Because when we see what this report, I want to be able to present that to y'all and say, out of 300 people, we have- Yeah, but I did that. I will ask those questions for you and I have an answer for you.

Thank you. It could make sense to do a presentation. We've asked that to pass. We did pay our share. So that we can handle it.

And that shouldn't be a problem. Like I said, me and Mr. Perry, we work on a lot of things. We work on a lot of things. A lot of times I get asked how long, but again, we are really working through a lot of the things, processing with both us and the city working together. That shouldn't be a problem.

I think the first thing I know about the meeting is that I don't have a date yet, but if you sign it, we're going to sign it for that committee.

Yes, it's early October.

All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. You can bring that back.

Yeah. And what would the vote be? Because he made our check on it. So how would we vote on something that we don't really have an answer to? Table the census. Table the census.

Well, we moved it from consent to new business because there was discussion. So I think if you want to not take action tonight, why don't you table it until we get more information.

Okay. Why don't you make a table?

Oh, table.

Okay.

Table. Who was the second person?

I was the first.

Okay. Councilman Spahey tabled it and Mayor, I mean, I'm sorry, and Councilman Vandenberg was seconded to table it in that. Anybody a full statement?

Yes.

All right. Okay. All right. Ms. Mann. Yes.

Good evening. And I do see a lot of progress in Henderson being made. But I'm here because I live on... My name is Donna Mann. Donna Bates Mann. I live on 533 Breckenridge Street, right across from the jail. And... I am concerned with the drain not being cleared out because every time it rains, all that water is up in my yard almost and the street is unpassable. It's a lot of water. It just rained the other day and it was like that. And I said, I'm gonna come up here and tell you. And also I'm concerned about the vacant property um that's up on the hill for me i have a lawn person that is i'm paying him to try to keep that stuff off my property and that's been like that ever since i moved back here i moved here in 2019 and i came up here before this mayor and some of you but you were here but um That property, nobody's doing anything with it. But a couple of, let's see, a couple of months ago, somebody came and cleared it and I could look out and I wasn't afraid to go up the street or down the street because it was a forest. It really was a forest. And this is in the city of Henderson. And I've just never seen anything like it because I came from somewhere else. And a lot of things has caught up here in Henderson. I grew up in Henderson. I grew up in that area. My mother, I live in the house my mother built. And if I could move the house, I would. But I'm not moving the house because we're global. So you don't know who's living in your neighborhood. It could be, look, run down, down the street. Somebody else might be there, but you don't know Just what they're doing, how many taxes they're paying, how much taxes they're paying or anything. So everybody should be really considered. So that's why I'm here. Do you know the address?

Yes, I do. 521.

That's your address?

No, that's the other address.

My address is 533. I'm down here. My house face all that stuff. You know, all the wonders they face that area. But I'm noticing that things are being changed. and I'm kind of proud of it. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

All right. Thank you. Sylvia Hayes, please state your name and address for the records.

My name is Sylvia Hayes. I'm a homeowner on 811 Nelson Street.

My mother purchased the home back in 1990 and it's a pretty good neighborhood quiet. It's changing, which I expect everything to change. I put in a complaint for a property that's one door over from me, which is 805 Nelson Street with the city. I bought pictures when the tree fell in the house that I'm speaking of at 805. They had the tree removed that hit the house, but they left the roots and part of the tree still leaning on the grass. That happened in May 24, 2024. The root is still there. And it's an ugly sight to the community. I understand this. A lot of people buying houses. I was in the process of selling my house, but I can't now because it's low marketing now. So I'm going to be here, but I want my street to look better. People that move in are not, I think it's four homeowners still on Nelson Street and all the other homes are rentals. So, of course, some rentals, people don't know how to keep up.

a yard of.

And then for the people that's owning the house, that rents the house out, they don't care about just the money they get for rent. So I'm just here tonight to focus on the tree on 805 Nelson Street and some kind of way. I did... finally see someone there because there's only been one tenant since the tree was removed. The house was gutted out and redone. So the White House is redone. They only have one tenant in there. She just moved out about two months ago. So I don't know if he's selling it or going to rent it again. But that tree doesn't need to stay. The root of it. And that's my complaint for tonight. Thank you all for giving me the honor to let my voice be heard.