City Council - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. I would like to call this special call meeting to order for the Henderson City Council. Madam clerk, Miss Champion present here. City. Mr. Noel um couldn't be here today. He may join us by Zoom. I think he's on. I'm on. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Cipher here. Mr. D here. Mr. Dy here. Miss Gill. Miss Walker

here. and we have a quorum. Before we get started, um this is definitely um a great reason for us all to be here, but I do want to say thank you to the community and special thanks to Council Member Michael Venable for getting a bus from his church to take people to Raleigh. Yes.

Um and I also want to just thank the community because there are so many people in this community that are very concerned about this um Senate Bill 214 section 5. And I also want to say thank you to our representative, Mr. Khan, who has kept us in the loop throughout this entire um thank you so much, uh, Representative Khan, for all that you're doing for our city and others. But you have been an amazing representative in the last week. It's just been amazing to me. So that's all I have to say. Uh, Mr. Manager, thank you, Mayor. You're welcome.

And with the council's permission, I'd like to ask Mr. opponent who would come up and I think he has a few words he would like to share with you on this important moment. Madame Mayor, thank you for having me and thank you for the kind words. Um, and uh, Mr. Manager, thank you for uh, taking the time and allowing me to uh, give you guys a little bit of an update as to where we are and how we got here. Um, I'm not going to go into a lot of details. This is a long and historic conversation that has been a part of Henderson's history as long as I've been alive. Something I remember my grandparents talking about is the uh the Henderson water plant um and the fight for water in this region. But with that being said, um last Tuesday we reconvened in Raleigh and generally expected a uh a uneventful week. Um but knowing what we went through last year with $10 million and uh um just the fight that we've had ongoing with the with the with the water plant and some of our partners and the region in general. um that this issue would come back during the short session. I didn't know it'd be like five hours later uh but it it reappeared. Uh so sometime between Tuesday evening and uh Wednesday morning a some language specifically section five of the uh of uh Senate Bill 214 um or correct myself the conference report on Senate Bill 219. That's an important distinction and I'll and I'll explain why in a moment. Um, section five was inserted into uh that piece of legislation and I think it caught a lot

of folks off guard. It certainly um caught myself uh Representative Rodney Pierce who represents uh Warren Halifax um so you know areas to the east of here caught both of us by surprise. Um we were on the phone with each other pretty early. Um, Wednesday morning we were on on the phone with DOJ. We were on the phone with the governor's office, DEQ, anybody that would um listen to us really got to understand what was happening, why it was happening. Um, and and I feel like there was a lot of my colleagues on this side that that may have felt the same way. It was it was news to them. Um, we saw that on the House floor um when we got up there in the afternoon to discuss the bills and debate for the day. Um, obviously you can see in the video I spoke, Rodney spoke, couple of my other colleagues um had a chance to speak. There was a lot of folks, a lot of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle that were um pretty well caught off guard or um didn't grasp the language that they were seeing. Um and in good faith, the speaker has pulled that bill. Uh it it is tenatively scheduled for this week, although I am optimistic that it will not come before the house um this week. It's a um the language inserted in there from uh on behalf and by uh Franklin County is is egregious. Um it violates the sovereignty of this county. It violates the sovereignty of this city, the other affected counties. And as I mentioned on the House floor, it opens up Pandora's box cuz what happens one day when Raleigh decides that they're going to go, you know, stick their neck into Johnston County or vice versa or Meckllinburgg County wants to go and take water or resources uh from one of their neighboring counties. It's uh it's undemocratic. It's unamerican. Um frankly, it's likely

unconstitutional. I'm no constitutional scholar or attorney but um kind of makes sense at the end of the day uh that one sovereign government cannot take from another. We have something in our constitution referred to as co- sovereignty and this is in my opinion direct violation of co- sovereignty. We'll let the attorneys deal with that stuff. Um I think we made a ceiling in in case the house floor and in uh subsequent discussions. So, I am um extremely optimistic that we are headed in the right direction. Um Wednesday afternoon to where we are today, I feel a lot better. Uh we're not on the war footing. I mean, we're not in trying to figure out what the legal proceedings are going to be. Um we're talking now what, you know, what is it that that Franklin County needs? What is it that the region needs? What is it, you know, what are the what are the issues that are continuing continuing to come up? um and affect the city of Henderson and the water plant and its and its partners. Um which those are positive things and uh it's a much better place to be. With respect to the legislation, as I mentioned a moment ago, this is not a traditional bill. So, as you guys are aware, when you have an ordinance or something to discuss, it's brought before you, you discuss it, you can vote up, you can vote down. Um, in the House, we pass bills, they go to the Senate, the Senate passes it, goes on to the governor, governor can veto and so forth. This is a conference report, which is a little bit different. Conference reports are usually made up of bundles of other pieces of legislation. In this case, SB214 is a package of what we call local bills. So, they affect local jurisdictions. Traditionally, you expect those to be things like changing um term limits or uh when if elections are going to happen on odd years versus even years and so on and so forth, but generally some fairly

mundane procedural stuff. Um conference reports, the me the mechanism for conference reports really at the basic level is if I have a bill in the Senate and I have a bill in the House, they're both kind of the same bill, but the wording doesn't match. you form a conference to work out those wording differences so that the bills match so that you can go ahead and pass it and and get it on out of the chamber. This particular conference report is not eligible for veto. Um it does require two uh two readings, two votes. Um the Senate performed a reading uh last week, passed its first reading. it's still due for a second reading and it would have to go through two readings in the house um two votes of which that's what the speaker postpone. So uh just kind of give you some procedural um lessons there uh parliamentary stuff. Um but again it's it's my expectation that we will uh cooler heads will prevail and and we will figure this out. kind of the the bad part about um these Congress reports, unlike a bill, I can't offer an amendment. We can't just strip the language out. It's a up or down vote. Now, whether or not um the speaker uh through the rules committee is able to send this back to conference to be amended um is still a little bit up in the air. We'll let we'll let them figure that out. Um but again this is these are things that uh we're talking about in good faith. Um and uh again feel like we're making progress in areas. So again much better today than we were you know probably when we called this meeting and when all the stuff came before us on the House floor. That being said there there is there's still um still some some issues to discuss and work out over the coming days and weeks. Um, I ask that this

board remain open to the idea of having discussions between uh your city manager as well as our consulting partners for the uh for the water plant to talk about what the future of the water plant looks like, how it will continue to operate and serve the folks of the region. Um, what changes in structure may or may not look like and be open-minded to those uh and have discussions in good faith. That's what I on the floor on your behalf uh promised um my colleagues who presented this bill as well as uh members of leadership, the governor's team, and literally anybody listening that the city of Henderson and the other water partners would be having conversations and we'll do so in good faith. And that's my ask of this board today is to make sure that we can have those meaningful discussions because you guys will be the ones have to make the decision. But rest assured that I can tell you, I mean, we're 2 and 0 right now on stopping shenanigans with the water plant. I can't guarantee we'll be three and 0. And I say that with, you know, confidence. I can't guarantee that. This this board, this partnership with the water plan need to make some decisions of how this is how this water plan is going to continue. The city of Pender is the majority owner of that fund in its current structure. The city of Carolina can and does have the authority to remove that ownership from the city of Henderson through a a variety of means. um we don't want to ever get to that point and this city has worked hard to make sure the plan is upgraded and has continued to serve the people of Henderson

um Warren County, city of Oxford and all of your Boltwater customers uh throughout the region for many many decades and that needs to be honored and respected and Henderson absolutely must have a seat at the table. But I do not want us to end up in a situation where that seat at the table is taken away from me. So that is the that's the point. Um over the coming days and weeks that I respectfully request this board in good faith to work with your city manager and your partners um your consulting partnersh uh at the plant and as well as your partners in the plant to discuss what the future looks like and what it means for Henderson. and I'll be with you every step of the way um you know as these conversations unfold. I am not running for office next year. So like you have my undivided attention until January and beyond. Um, this is a this is a a very important issue for me to make sure that uh that we continue to serve the folks of Henderson, Warren County, city of Oxford, and the surrounding community fairly. We never want another entity, whether it be the state or another county to come in and tell us what we can and cannot do and how we operate. that is a decision for uh for this board and for your partners to make and I honor and respect that. So, as things unfold, it's my commitment to each one of you as board members and I make the same commitment to the board members um and city and county staffs for your partners to be a conduit of communication and explanation where needed uh before you leave here today. Um, I'll make sure each of you have my personal number. So, if you have

questions as to what might be happening or thoughts or concerns, my office stays ready to uh to help address those and to support you guys. That's my only goal in this is to support this board and to support the boards of the partners in this plan um going forward. There's no no other agenda but other than to make sure you guys are fully informed and have everything you need to govern yourselves the way that our constitution directs you to. So um with uh Madame Mayor, Mr. Manager, um if there's any questions, I'm happy to answer them, but otherwise I will let you guys get to the business of the day.

Absolutely. council. Um, please be acknowledged first cuz we still operate under Roberta order. If you want to speak to our representative, just, you know, just let me know you want to talk. Go ahead, Councilman Champion.

Um, I just wanted to ask a question. Didn't Wasn't there a similar situation with Johnson County? There are similar I I don't know how how how parallel they are in in similarity but there are situations um the folks in the Cape River Cape Fear River uh basin um that have water issues um you know starting from Wilmington all the way back up through uh through Fagetville and and beyond um and there's been um communities not to somewhere from from Henderson and the Franken Tank situation and have tickered back and forth with about uh about border rights and issues. So this is not uncommon in the state of North Carolina and uh we have many times looked at at ways of addressing that uh through re through regional cooperation um at the state level but I cannot think of a of a situation or I do I'm not aware of a situation where we've had another county u try to uh violate the sovereignty of another council council woman welcome Yes. Good afternoon, Representative Khan. Uh, two-part question. Um, first part is um the US Army Corps of Engineering, they no longer have any input or say in um the ongoings of this decision. Is that correct? Uh,

that is not correct. Okay. Um so to further add a wrinkle to our uh our unique border situation, the body of water in which we draw uh that we draw our resource from is uh sits between two states and the long-held belief and opinion of the Army Corps of Engineers is that before additional permits are issued, meaning additional allocations are issued, that an agreement would have to into place an updated agreement between the state of North Carolina and the state of Virginia. In my conversations this week, which reach all the way to um Richmond um at the legislative level as well as uh conversations that uh that have been had with Virginia DEEQ um they're not aware that anybody's trying to build a plan on Carl Lake. So, there's been no conversations had. Um, and this is I have significant concerns with the claims made by uh by Franklin County because they just don't add up.

Okay, question two. The second part is, are you aware of Franklin County um asking directly the city of Henderson for any water? Maybe maybe um city manager SP can help with this. Prior to the US Army Corps of Engineering um getting involved per se, has Franklin County ever, let's say their lawyers ever asked us for water um in the past prior to the

I would defer to Mr. Spruel on anything recent. I have reviewed all of the agreements between the city of Henderson and Fightman County dating back to 1998. Um, but is it anything recent? I'll defer to Mr. Sproul.

As far as Miss Walker, no, not to my knowledge. Although they have made the overure, they would be interested in any allocation that we could send to them even on a temporary basis. However, prior to this, there has been, I think, multiple conversations about the order for Franklin County. In fact, as recently as 2019, he had a very specific offer to them for about 6 million gallons per day and that was not accepted.

Okay. And have have you heard of a you utilize a utility attorney or is that something that you are not familiar with? Thank you. I'm not sure I'm familiar with that term. Okay. If you have other context perhaps I can yeah trying to get familiar with it as well but thank you pale. Thank you representative mayor Matthew. Absolutely. Awesome.

Good afternoon everyone. Thank you so much for your civic engagement and for being here today and good afternoon representative Khan and for your advocacy for Granville and Vance counties at the state level. Um just for a broader understanding not only for us on council but also for our residents. Could you give us a little bit more of a rundown about what we can expect tomorrow in terms of a vote? I know you mentioned that you know you're not feeling too optimistic about that. But I 100% understand and agree that people power there regardless of a vote or not would be u beneficial for our cause here and what we're advocating for. But could you just let us know a little bit about what we should expect tomorrow? Thank you. Yeah. So, great question and I'm gonna pull out my phone and check to see if anybody has sent the updated agenda for tomorrow. Um, so that I can answer you in with the most updated information that I have. Um, as of um as of 1:19 p.m., I have not been um notified by the clerk's office with tomorrow's uh calendar. Now what we've the conversations that we've had um thus far you know a lot of these conversations um we work between intermediaries between uh uh certain groups whether it's the speaker's office or folks in the senate or direct conversations that I've had um the feeling right now and I and I hate to phrase it that's what it is and welcome to North Carolina politics but the feeling we get right now is this is not this is no one's looking to generate a culture war. No one's looking to uh to have this fight. And I can tell you that in my past experiences in in working with um Speaker Hall uh in his office, um they have they have always been forthcoming. Um there's been no surprises. Um there's been no um you know, funny games or anything along

those lines. So I take everyone at their word. Um right now it feels like this is something that that likely will not come before us tomorrow. Um things can change and again due to this the nature of this uh piece of legislation being that it's a conference report um it is it makes it trickier that you know I think normally what we would look at doing is is drafting a resolution to at the very least update the language to make it specific to water infrastructure and not you know they come take city hall. Um, you know, that would be like step one, but we're in this sort of weird weird space. So, I I I imagine that either uh one is just going to be tabled for a little while. Um, go back maybe perhaps to the conference uh reconvening that conference so where they can pull the language and make adjustments. um or um an eventual vote is held where we will uh vote no um and hopefully uh hold that that no vote and then the the bill would fail and then then it go back be revised and come back before uh before the body. So there's a couple options there and um the speaker controls the agenda um in the calendar. So we will let them work through what's the best means to update that piece of legislation.

Yeah. Councilman. Oh, Council.

Uh, thank you. I would just like to add a final question that council Walker brought up and city manager of school because I've been working with the Carl Lake regional as appointed, you know, several years some prior to payment. And just to add some value to the uh conversation with Franklin County over six years I'd say of purchasing water there had been several and uh at one time it was the price was not what they wanted and then there was another uh proposal where uh they just came forward and wanted to they wanted to be a part of the partnership and wanted to purchase partnership and that was that's certainly was a step more beyond that you know we were ready to deal at the time and of course we've had conversations about waiting till we got through this expansion of the plant which during co was went anomaly from 30 million to 90 something million as well as uh getting it put together and we're just about to finish that expansion work. So there was discussion at that time we would see what our not only our capacity sale was but our cost too because we've spent so much more money on the plant. But I will say the things that kind of made uh the transitions of the conversations harder. But during those times I'm talking about I think we went through we've gone through up to our third manager, two attorneys. Uh same thing in Franklin County. And each time managers and attorneys change, it seemed like the conversations stopped and they changed a little bit. So I think they were all well-meaning and and fruitful but with the plan expansion COVID and I will say the change from purchasing to war but wanting to own and I understand their point about the future trying to own partnership

the conversation and I've had several people say to me why haven't y'all been able to well it was very difficult when the conversation changed with and the difference in staffing and elected officials changed and their their uh proposals changed too. So I would say all those things always come into factor when you're trying to negotiate contracts, change of people, staffing, etc. And then of course the change of focus. So but it's always been good conversation and we all mean but um understandably difficult during these times

and that would be my experience as well. um having been a colleague of yours in in uh the city of Oxford during the the co years um worked closely with our board during those rapid changes uh in pricing and it felt like every week the uh the it was like watching the the gas pump the cost of the plant just kept rising and rising faster than we could secure funding or potential for sourcing for funding. Um so all that makes sense. So there there's a lot of complexities to the plant and it's not something that is you we can just say well we're going to sell you a chunk of it. Um we have to understand what collectively we it it it's been put into the plan and what those numbers really are and what that would look like. Um and I think that's that's still a worthwhile thing to do. Um it needs to be done because we need to understand what the uh what the the true value of the plant is relative to what's been put into it. Um there needs to be an understanding of um what your um deferred maintenance costs are on other water and sewer infrastructure within the city of Henderson and and so forth to to really even start to even have a meaningful conversation. But I think those are things that um that I'm confident that Mr. rule will be working on um in in coordination with uh with our um partners and attorneys to kind of get an idea of what I call our horizon where where where does Henderson actually sit and subsequently where do the partners sit so that you can have those discussions later on that you're fully equipped to make decisions

and add some value to what I was just saying I should have added we've just completed studies with Jacob's engineers the Carl Lake regional partnership did to find out as you said what is the value just of business now because it's changed dramatically and also studies of the water needs for Oxford Henderson and Warren County for the next 50 years studies and all those come into play on any decisions on what you can sell and what the cost of that sale would be. Yes. And that's just on the sales side. The partnership piece certainly another another whole discussion. So, but those things are in place and the work's being finished though I think the timing is such that their discussion should be open to finding ways to solve issues.

Absolutely. And that's uh that's the that's the message that I'll be taking back to Raleigh with me um that will be communicated back to all the relevant players that um that we're in a position not just because we want to or not because Franklin County was you know raising Kane. It's it's because that we do we we are starting to get a picture through through these studies and um through some of the numbers I've seen just you know sometimes they generate more questions and we need opportunity to work through some of those or y'all need the opportunity to be able to work through some of those um again to make informed decisions and that's we want we want to give you the runway to do that. Um, so it is uh imperative that we prevent um section five of 214 from being brought back up so we don't get drugged into a into a legal fight. But I can tell you that uh we'll do everything in our power to encumber them in court from, you know, now through eternity if we have to because it's not right. It's not fair. So,

uh, Representative Cohen, I I would like to ask the council if they will review the resolution. Have you guys even read it? Yes. And I want to thank you for drafting it for us from your office. Very thankful. Um, do we have any more discussion or is there a motion to be put on the floor? Motion that we approve the uh Franklin County property acquisition resolution. We have a motion on the floor by Councilman Di, seconded by Council Member Michael Venal. ML. Miss Champion. Yes. Miss Gomez, yes. Mr. Sford, yes. Mr. Denol, yes. Mr. Gy, yes. Miss Gill,

yes. Miss Walther, yes. And the motion has passed. Um, before we make the motion to adjourn, um, if there's anyone here or Tyler, you can put it in your paper. If there's anyone that needs a ride to Raleigh tomorrow, we will be leaving the police department's parking lot at 700 a.m. um going into Raleigh with our famous Democratic chair there, Miss Angie. Um as just going in advocacy uh to make sure that we our voice is heard and that we have a presence there. So, do we have a motion to adjourn? Madame Mayor, I believe we're still well within the margins of discussion if that is correct. Um following a motion in a second. Absolutely. That's why I asked you to have a discussion.

Yes, ma'am. Yeah. I would I you know I believe I speak on behalf um from a general level on behalf of our council and our city that when we heard this news last week, we were all pretty much enraged. And I mean that uh quite bluntly and frankly. And you know, in studying uh the materials that were sent to council to study and review um within the uh through the throughout the weekend, um I prepared a statement that I would like to share with my constituents if that is okay. Absolutely.

Fantastic. All righty. Uh a lot of this has already been covered. Um however, as many of you know, I'm all about education and transparency uh and just having that streamline communication with our residents. I want to start off by saying that what we are facing today is not just a policy dis disagreement. It is a direct challenge to local authority, regional trust in the stewardship of a resource that our community has built, protected, and relied on for decades. And it came to us abruptly. I personally saw it on a Facebook post. No collaboration, no conversation, just a bill introduced at the state level that would allow one county to step into another and take property without consent. That should concern every single one of us. And I know that it does. regardless of where you stand on growth, development, or water. Let's walk through what this actually is, which we've already heard some of the facts because our community deserves transparency. The Carl Lake Regional Water System is not just a pipeline. It is a regional partnership built over time, funded responsibly and led in large part by the city of Henderson. We've heard that we own 60% of that system. We are not just a participant. We are the primary steward. And Franklin County, they are not outsiders to the system. They are already a customer. In fact, their own document which was shared to council was uh mentioned that Henderson is their primary primary water source. So again, I have to ask as a council member to their government, if this relationship already exists, if the infrastructure already exists, if the water is already flowing, why are we being bypassed? And that's the question that I believe most of us have in our mind. Now, let's talk about the proposal to the US Army Corps of Engineers, which Miss uh Councilwoman Tammy Walker had brought up. Franklin County is requesting 15.7 million gallons per day directly from Car Lake. To do that, they are prepared to spend around $200 million building a brand new intake system and pipeline. $200 million for infrastructure that already exists or could be expanded within the system

we already share. And again, even their own materials acknowledge that expanding that existing system would cost significantly less. So, let's call this what it is. not the most efficient option, not the most collaborative option, and certainly not the most responsible use of Franklin County taxpayer dollars. And here's where where it gets even more important. The legal analysis, which I also have right here from the Carly Regional Water System, makes it clear that this proposal would create duplicate infrastructure, drive up cost, and introduce unnecessary environmental and operational impacts to Car Lake and surrounding communities. In other words, we are not just talking about a different approach. We are talking about an approach that is less efficient, more expensive, and more disruptive than working together. Now, let's address the narrative that's being presented. I saw this online about Franklin County's press release to the community. But the full picture matters. They are already receiving water 3.5 million gallons per day. And as city manager Taylor Sproul mentioned, they were granted increased capacity to up to 2.5 million gallons per day. Henderson has indicated the ability to support additional capacity within the system and Carl Lake Regional Water System is actively pursuing an additional 10 million gallons per day allocation from Carl Lake by June of 2026 to strengthen supply for all partners. That honestly does not sound like a closed door to me. That sounds like a door that is still open and still being worked through. So, Franklin County and their respective state representatives, I have to ask respectfully, but directly, was partnership fully pursued or was it simply not pursued fast enough? Because there is a difference. And here's where I want to bring it back home. And again, I believe we share, we all share the same sentiment. Henderson is a tier one community with a poverty rate of about 20 27.3%. We don't take our resources for granted because we've had to fight for them. Carl Lake is not just water to us. It is economic opportunity. It is regional leverage and it is a foundation for

growth in a community that has had to be resilient time and time again. And I will end by saying this. I believe that all of us are voting today not just as council members but as people who understand that this community has to has had to overcome a lot. What it continues to fight for and what is at stake if we don't stand firm in moments like this is imperative. So, I believe we're allowed to vote yes today on opposing section 5 of Senate Bill 214, not opposition for the sake of opposition, but out of commitment to fairness, to partnership, and to protecting the future of Henderson and the region we serve. And personally, I will not speak on behalf of any of my colleagues, Franklin County. I will say personally that I am not standing in the way of your growth. Rather, I am standing in the way of my community being pushed aside. And there is a difference. Thank you. Yeah. Motion on the floor by Councilman Dy and seconded by Council Member Vandel. You all have a nice day. If you want to go to Raleigh, we've been police department y'all.