Council Economic Development Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay.

Okay. Good evening, everybody. Today is Monday, 11/03/2025. It is 5PM with the Council Economic Development Committee, and I'd like to call the meeting in order. Mister Castro, if you could please take roll. Council member Bunia absent. Council member Andrew? Present. Mayor Salinas? Present. Thank you. Next is public comment. It's reserved for anybody who wants to make a public comment that is on on an item that is not on the agenda. Is there anybody in the public, like, making public comment? Seeing none. And, obviously, if there's anybody online, so I'd to close public comment, and we'll we'll move on to the approval of minutes. We have this quorum. Right? We do have quorum. Yes.

Yeah.

We're done.

Moved by council member Andrew, the second by mayor Salinas, and we'll close this item. We'll move on to reports and action items. First item or the only item is proposed interim ordinance pursuant to government code section proposed interim ordinance pursuant to government code section six five eight five eight imposing a temporary moratorium on new massage businesses in Downtown Hayward, and I believe, either director Bowser oh, Yeah. Yeah.

I think we've got some of our staff from HPDN. They're online. Yes. They're online. I'll take the lead on just presenting this board. It should be very brief. Advance the slide real quick. So right now, so staff's proposing a temporary moratorium on new massage businesses. Actually, not just downtown, but but citywide. So right now, we have two basic of regulation.

We got the zoning ordinance. Basically tells us where the businesses are allowed and under what circumstances in terms of land use approvals. So they are allowed by right of the downtown core and with the CUP and select other commercial districts and in all the all the parts of

the city that were given.

Along with the land use approval, business owners have to obtain a massage permit through the police chief that imposes various operational requirements and requires, I think, fingerprinting of business owners and and massage practitioners and establishes criteria for suspending and revoking permits. Next slide, please. So the reason that staff proposes to bring the the side of the council for consideration is because staff is facing some challenges with respect to existing establishments and also having to deal with new applications as they come in. So as you can see, since 2020, there have been seven new businesses that have opened in the city or ownership has changed of existing businesses. There are currently currently 17 permitted establishments in the city.

HPD has been involved in investigating and enforcement with related to illicit activity, unpermitted premises, as well as the permitted locations. And staff will be HPD staff can, you know, provide some information about those situations. But if there's existing investigations, they may not be able to share all the information, but they can provide just sort of a general overview of the types of challenges that they're seeing there. And, of course, at the bottom, staffing for the vice department is currently one detective and one sergeant, and they don't just have massage establishment enforcement on their plate. They're dealing with cannabis.

They're dealing with alcohol, beverage Tobacco. And tobacco. So it's it's two folks dealing with that wide range of things, on their plates. So that's one of the one of the reasons that we're asking for just this brief pause on issuing permits. Next slide, please.

So there's two proposed so this proposed solution has two phases. One of them is is the temporary moratorium, which is scheduled to go to council on the December 16. And state law allows a moratorium for up to two years temporarily, and it goes in two phases. The first is a forty five day pause, and then it has to go back to council before that forty five days is up for a potential extension. And during that time, staff will be working on sort of the phase two part of it, is permanent amendment amendments to the existing regs.

Part of that would be amendments to the zoning ordinance, which would adjust how land use approvals are are made for massage businesses within the out down count core and within other zoning districts. And then the other part of it is amendments to the massage ordinance where we're looking at strengthening the operational requirements, expansion of of the criteria for suspension or revocation, and potentially requiring a CUP for change of a a new CUP for new owners, which was, I I think, what we do with our our cannabis operators. So kind of mirroring the way cannabis is is regulated in the city. And that's some of those it's anticipated that those could be paired with the business friendly, regulations project that that planning staff is is working on, so that council can consider them all at one time sometime later in the spring. Excellent.

Is that it? That's it. That's it. Good. So I'm with you. I could take questions and staff. We've got Elizabeth Blanton, our senior planner on online, and detective Wright is also available to answer any questions that the committee might have about this item. Okay.

I have a question. So there was a farmer at the shopping center off of was it Abel Boulevard? There was one there. Was that

always Abel or how did that move in? Like, that was never approved. They came in as think I don't know if you recall, Elizabeth. I think it came in as it was they were gonna do a hair salon. It was a beauty place. It wasn't gonna involve any of that. We said, well, if you're gonna do that, you need a use permit. They said, oh, no. No. No. We're never gonna do that. And then it's always operated Okay. As something it's not supposed to be. So that it never received the proper approvals. K. COVID enforcement staff went out to that site based on complaints that we received from the community, and I know PD had been there. Yeah. Alright. Not legal. It's never legal.

So that type of situation, has that happened before in other parts of the city?

Yes.

Or somewhat unusual?

No. That I think that that is some of the challenges that are leading into into the need to sort of let's pause. Let's relook at it. Let's figure out how we regulate this type of use given the challenges we've had.

And I guess the only issue I see is what let's say a hand in stone or a massage, it it be. Or well, Berkeley, it seems like they're they're actually not growing. But if something like that was to come, how would that what would that would they have to wait for the moratorium as well?

Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

A hand and stone and now massage Like

a national Like a national chain one that, you know, actually operates on the up and up. Yeah. They would yeah. During this moratorium period, they would there would be a limit. But but I think what city attorney, Billy, was talking about was the the intent is to do the moratorium and then wrap in the changes as as a part of the business friendly, which is anticipated to come back before council before the end of the fiscal year. Okay. So we're talking about six, eight months here, really, all told, not two years, which would be the full extent here allowed to move those. Okay.

Yeah. I'll add to that. The thought about wrapping in with the business friendly is instead of having to start a whole new process to, you know, create new massage organ regulations is we were already kind of talking about this part of the business friendly. This is something that's been on staff's minds. It was kind of an odd loophole that was in the downtown code where we started to see all these new massage businesses downtown.

We've saw in our, downtown analysis, you might recall when we brought this to council that our retail folks said, you know, you have a lot of massage businesses downtown. Maybe this is something that, you know, you wanna put a pause on even just from a retail perspective, let alone, you know, given some of the illicit activity. So it's something we were considering anyway. So it's natural to rope into this project. We probably would have updated regulations ready in a few months anyway.

So if speaking with the police staff, it kinda makes sense to put a pause on new applications coming forward in the next few months so that they're not having to chase down new operators and manage both, you know, people operating legally as well as some of the illicit activity while we're getting these new regulations in place. But, yeah, we're we're in the home stretch of the business friendly Hayward project, so we should have those new regulations adopted sometime this spring.

Okay. And then this is a question for Hayward PD. Of all devices, which one would you say is number one, and where does this sit within the number of devices that you see have the most calls for?

Good evening. I'd have to look at some of the data that we have. I mean, for the amount of massage establishments that we have where we only have 17, it does seem like lately we do have quite a bit of calls regarding some of our permitted establishments as well as our illicit ones. But I'd have to really look at the data because we do have quite a bit of alcohol establishments, and then we do have quite a bit of tobacco. So I've kinda have to see what the complaints are for that to try to compare all of them.

Okay. Alright. Thank you. You

know, as you're as you're I know we're focusing on on this particular retailer. But for for this type of retailer to come in legally or illegally, they still have to go through a building a landlord. Right? A building owner, unless they own the building. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

they they they're rent yeah. They're gonna have

to lease space. Mean, so, you know, if we were to to go back a step, I mean, is there a way that we put conditions on can we include some element to the property?

Can you clarify? I'm not sure if

Well, I I don't I

don't guess I don't know what I'm

let me let me see if I can you know, I I guess is how do we prevent the the landlord from from from doing this, right, from allowing a retailer that clearly is is, you know, not doing what they're supposed to do. A massage retailer in this case, not doing what they're supposed to be doing, you know, or not doing what they're, you know, what they're doing.

Well, I I think in terms of property owner, I suppose there's mechanisms that could look into whether or not it's public nuisance or not. Yeah. But in terms of

Because when people I mean, gradual I mean, the the people have told me, in addition to the economic development special, they said, downtown, there's a lot of massage partners down here. Right? And they and they say it almost in the the tone of, like, we're the ones that are just proving all these little side part. And we're like, well, it's not necessarily us. Yes. We're providing the permit on it, but, you know, the the the property owner is agreeing to the, know, to the to the business and then and giving them the green light. Yeah. You got a space. Go get the permits. So how can we

They're paying rent. I mean, the landlord's not going to likely ask. Hey. You doing legal stuff here? Is this in illegal? Because they're likely just carrying the the rents being paid.

Yeah.

Right? And so I think what gets tricky, I think the other nuance is one of the things that we alluded to in the beginning, which was with the adoption of the downtown specific plan, there was a change in that that was made such that massage establishments no longer needed a conditional use permit in downtown. They still need the massage permit from PD, but they don't need the the other land use approval. You need it outside of those areas in the commercial zones that support it. So it could be that when that change happened, it made it a little easier.

Right? Because there was one less step, one less permit that those establishments needed to obtain in order to get open and operating. And that, you know, may be part of what led to an overabundance of those facilities in the town.

Yeah. It's it's the property owners that are saying you know, I mean, we're giving them too much credit. But for some of these guys, you know, they don't care. They're just putting whatever they can get rid for, and they're just putting it in there. You know? Then we're the ones that are having to deal with this.

Which I think is why we wanna kinda take this pause. I mean, that that's sort of the intent behind the pause that we can look at the regs and

Okay. That's the problem. Okay. Appreciate that. I don't have any more questions. I'm gonna open up for public comment. There is no public comment. I'll close public comment. And seems like we have an agreement to send this over to council.

But if a nationwide chain is interested in talking to Hayward, then it's a legitimate practice. Please

contact Paul. I mean, I I think what what we would probably share with them is we could share some of the thinking and the language behind what where we're going with that and let them know. You know? Like, it's not that you wouldn't be allowed, but let's find a location. Let's get you through that process. And I I don't we just wouldn't be we couldn't issue the permit till the moratorium is lifted, but we could certainly accept an application and and work on the processing. We just couldn't approve it until we so, I mean, there's some things we could do Yep. In the case of a a legitimate Yeah. Legitimate.

Correct. Just to add to what Sarah was saying, let's let's just say, hypothetically, a Massage NV contacted us tomorrow and said, well, we found a site we're interested in, you know, in our general commercial district. We're, you know, wanting to open up a shop. If they applied for a CUP application, the timing of that would be about right, you know, to when they would get to their public hearing process, probably about when these new rigs would be adopted. So, you know, just based on the timeline that we're anticipating for this project, it wouldn't really slow down anyone even if they were applying in the near future.

So I don't I don't think we have anybody that I know of that is that is coming around at this moment. But if we did, hypothetically speaking, this this timeline wouldn't really slow any of those new businesses down.

Okay. One thing that

I would just that I that I would just add good evening, mayor and council member Andrews. I I would just say the other the other thing that we talked about, you know, were the moratorium for the new businesses, but I think the putting a pause on this also will allow us an opportunity to reach out to those existing operators, which Gabby, detective Wright has mentioned has been problematic because you have some that were permitted, but they change ownership, and that change of ownership was never clearly vetted. And so I think having that pause will also allow staff to reach out to those existing businesses to let them know that the regulatory framework is gonna change for them as well in case they do decide to change an application or a use or an owner, then that could be a situation that they would they would they would wanna be aware of.

Good point. Okay. Okay. Do you have what you need?

Yeah. I think we do. Yeah. We just wanted to make sure that if there's anything specific that you wanted to make sure we included as we look through that, but then also just to make sure you were aware that we were gonna bring this back

to full council in this.

Yeah. And I think one of the one of the reasons we brought it to the committee was that this type of moratorium does require a super majority vote, so it require a forfeits of the council. It's, two thirds vote, but, you know, the math works out then. It have to happen. Okay.

It's not

we just wanted to put on your radar ahead of time so you're aware of the numbers.

Sounds good. Alright.

Okay. Thank

you, everybody, from TV.

Thanks, guys.

Okay. Next item is, future meeting topics as of 11/03/2025.

The only comment I just wanna flag, for the committee members is, the third row retail quarter tour, given, the committee's feedback on the successful Tennyson tour. His where staff is gonna continue to schedule the towards a different retail quarter. Right now, we're tentatively planning a retail reality like, call reality tours for Hispari in February. And then this last item, which is the strategic road map e t seven update on small business. This is a holdover, but this item is being addressed through the business friendly update.

It was discussed through the recent work sessions, specifically about the commercial pop ups item that the planning staff brought. So I don't know if you this committee can wants to continue to have this updated here, or this discussion probably more likely will be continued, when these when the regulations go back to council. So

No. They're going back to.

Okay. So we will strike it from the next.

That's the which one was that?

The the update on small business pop ups in in residential areas.

Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. That roommate. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Yep. So I wanted to actually move that one, if possible. So when when would it what month would you guys think?

I think I mean, we're thinking, like, spring, so it'll be done and be brought and presented. All of the changes that are part of the business company will be part of and presented to council in the first part of

Okay.

'2. Before 2026. Before the end of the fiscal year, we'd be anticipating bringing it for council for adoption. Okay. Okay.

And then for the other items, I wanted to see the update on the cinema place. Can you include their operating hours of when they operate? Because I was there at, like, 03:00, it was completely shut shut down. So I'm confused on how I'm just confused on when we showed screenings in there at first.

The movies? The movie theater? Yeah.

And it said it opened till 7PM. So just a little concerned about Okay. How many screens are they showing. And and, yeah, I couldn't even go in just the BIPOC forms. So just a little concerned about that. But, also wanted to see if there's any action items related to cinema place, or any of these items here because they're all updates only.

I can offer a brief update on the theater now if you

want. Okay.

Good. I I could certainly, we will check-in with Cinemark. Can you see if this property management company that manage the day to day operations of the theater with the wholesale place shopping complex? But I can tell you that as of last Thursday or Friday, the Cinemark user, the theater user, did execute the lease amendment with the Hayward Economic Development Corporation for another two years. So they will be operating for the next two years at the existing terms of the lease.

Okay. And so now we're fully leased?

Yes. We're fully leased. Oh, actually. Yeah. Once the we're fully leased. Yes. We are fully leased, and then the the corner coffee shop should open. I believe in the first quarter of next year. Okay. But they have received all their permits from the city, and they're just under construction. So they need to finish construction, get their required inspections for the city, and then also get their inspection. Great.

And they will decide what we do.

Okay. Yeah.

A bit of time.

Okay. And then the economic development year end review, are there any action items that are surrounding that?

No. In in general, every year, I like to do a year end roundup of all the different accomplishments and programs. It gives there there are a lot of programs and initiatives that we run that we don't feel or warrant a full, like, staff report item. Like, you know, social media promotions, which is a big thing that we do. So that that gives us an opportunity to do a look back retrospective on all the different initiatives and programs and and share the ROI the impact information that we collect over the year. And then, also, it's my opportunity to kind of lay out the our walking our road map for the next, quarter or two where the the eighteenth company focused on. Yeah.

Alright. And then, when it's not that time, can we look at the strategic road map items related to economic development and see, given the budget impacts, if what should continue to move forward, what should pause and then recommend it to council.

Sure. And

if there's any kind of partnership with other departments and their initiatives, maybe we can look at that too. And then the retail corridor

Just a comment on that. I I'll have to check-in with the city manager's office, but I do know that they there is a plan to provide an update in full council

Okay.

On the status of

the road map. And within that update, there has been discussions at the staff level talk about exactly what you mentioned. It's like taking a hard look at all the programmed projects and initiatives and comparing that to the available resources and the current project constraints. So it may be more appropriate for more broader discussion of all roadmap items, not just the ED related

We have enough time to

dig into it. I I'll probably reserve a response to that and defer to the city manager. Okay. I can mention it.

That's the only concern is that normally is pretty rushed when we talk about road maps. So if we wanted to dig deeper about the economic development portion Okay. Like to

I might recommend I'll I'll speak to Janti about it, and I might recommend that. Okay.

Alright. And the same thing with as it relates to just business permits. Maybe there's something that team can look at what's more efficient for them as well that they can stop doing what you just done. Certainly, I know that you all have a permitting software, but is there anything else that can come back on any kind of burden or getting that passed that can save time and money for everyone?

Sure. We can sit and and talk about it and see what we can

Okay. Hisperia, do you have the because Hisperia is very

Yeah. On.

We've been

in the staff.

I'm curious. It's very much for you. We

we wanted to to the within that forty five minutes to an hour tour, and then we're watching on mapping the the stargate and then then the stops. Okay. It'll be similar in terms of duration as the ten.

Stop by the street with him with the giant chicken too. It's gonna that's one of your favorite spot. So

I didn't I know where I know where he lives.

No. Okay. Alright. Okay. That was it for me. Thanks. Okay.

Thank you. Okay. Next item is committee members, staff announcements, referrals. Then

Go ahead.

Oh, yeah.

So I wanted to give a shout out to staff as it relates to Brick by Big Toys. They let me know that their the grant that they received I know. With that hashtag. They're they're getting a lot of attraction to that store, and they had their first brick Lego convention a couple weeks ago. But I think that is a good case study for you to look at return of investment because the fact that they expanded twice and we're getting a lot of sales tax because they're actually selling the product, I think would be good for you to present to counsel.

But, also, I wanted to give Paul and whoever is involved in social media, Bay Area Wilson. I don't know if you've heard of him, but he is a realtor that that talks about everything real estate in the Bay Area, and he did three posts specifically about Hayward this week. And one post garnered 14,000 views in three hours, so he's a very popular guy. But he did mention Trev Coffee, Urban Air, and Tangip this week. So it's good to get some free social media to get those impressions and get people to come to our establishment. So thank you for making that connection.

Okay. Oh, there you go. So so the start up World Cup East Bay regional competition, which we mentioned last CDC meeting where council member Andrews, and council member attended and gave a welcome speech. The that was a regional competition. So of the the entire East Bay, the first annual one.

And the winner of the regional competition, which earned the Hayward Horizon Award in first annual one, City was the title sponsor. Here shown there was Horseshoe, a battery EV battery development company, RD company out of San Leandro. They are manufacturing they are they're working toward developing silicon based EV batteries as opposed to, like, lithium ion batteries. So silicon comes from glass and sand, essentially. They were the winners of the East Bay Regional.

They earned a slot to go and pitch at the World Cup finals, which was held in San Francisco. Some of the judges were literally the Laurie from Shark Tank and some really big venture capital people who were the early investors of Twitter, ARP, and, you know, the list goes on the call. So basically, who's who of venture capital, and we're happy to report that Corschell won the million dollar prize. So a huge exposure for the East Bay. Right. Great win for the community here, the the spirit of innovation and entrepreneurs and some of those guys. They were they got, like, national coverage. It's a million dollar. This is what

they were talking about at the what was it that they had over earlier earlier in the year? What is it? What did they have up with Cal's? Anyway, they were talking about this.

Yeah. That that were had a small business Yeah.

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. They were talking okay.

So that that was a lead up to yeah. So then the regional one and then the regional winner went to San Francisco, competed against companies across the world.

True.

And Portiauld, San Antonio, to talk about here, took home took home a million bucks. Pretty pretty interesting. It's like this. In If you haven't noticed, don't know where you've been, but established past report that economic development partnered with the DHNA and provided the DHNA funding to do a go I call it a glow up with a visual improvement on the common area of cinema place. This is something I've been wanting to do for probably eight years to add LED lights.

So there's a wide LED canopy that's color changing that kinda lights up the little faucet there. The feedback from Tram and the different retailers on the Ground Floor has been it's very positive. I was out there. I spent three hours out there on the night we turned it on, just hanging out at the coffee shop and talked along straight at Hayward residents who loved it, loved people taking selfies. So it's part of our initiative to to try to add place making in its broadest sense to to the theater.

So and it is color changing. We'll be changing the it's orange now for the for the, you know, autumn holiday. We'll probably change it as it gets to the winter, but season time to, you know, red and green and the more of the best colors. It's a great addition, and shout out to the DHA for getting that up and running so quickly.

I have a question. Sure. Can a DJ get a a DJ out there? Like, the first Fridays type DJ? Something to I don't know. Just take advantage of the lights.

Something we can Absolutely. We can look at it.

I mean, we can certainly look at it. I don't

know what the I'll have to look I'll have to chat with staff to see what kinds of entertainment Yeah. Type uses they're thinking about allowing for with the with the business friendly, but I could see there being some allowances for some stuff.

Yeah.

But we've been having lots of conversations about what other things can we do to sort of lighten things up. And I think we were really happy with the taste event and how well it went. I think we're all like, oh, it should have been, like, a thousand tickets. Why did we put a limit on where we did? Like, because there's so many people that weren't able to participate that wanted to.

And I think it was just really, really successful. So trying to think of other things that we can do. I noticed many of the restaurants don't have a lot of really great outdoor seating. So how do we, you know, retool the event so that, you know, are there tables and chairs and things that the DHIA could put out, especially for an event like that where some of the restaurants that don't have that space or don't want to give up their restaurant space for that one night event, how can we provide that a space for them to have that? Or looking at ways where maybe one of the part of the street does get closed, and we kind of activate it in a different way. But we are talking about some of those kinds of things. I'm gonna look into it, but I'll look into the regulation side of it and then bring that up.

I just see the tram opening. They have to take it there.

It's pretty lively. Yes. There was. There was there.

I'm telling

you, Mike. It was lively. It's just really early.

We always thought about having a DJ up upstairs right on that corner up from Tran, the sushi place.

Next month, you'll have another day.

But the speakers

You'll have an update for staff next month likely on the the patio.

Yeah. I mean, that patio is prime. Mhmm.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a major renovation of the wing. Yeah.

The other thing too, not to are you done if I was

I was just gonna say, take it to Mary. It was great. I was wondering if they're gonna do it more than one time a year with with think right now, it's just sort

of once a year, and it was it was a partnership with the chamber. Great. We appreciate all the chamber's efforts in in all of that with with the DHIA. I think I mean, we would just love to do more of those types of things, I think, to the greatest extent we can because it was so successful. I'm sorry that you were

I know.

Out of

town there. It really was a was a fun event. It really was. Yeah.

Yeah. I I was in downtown last Thursday last Thursday, I was in Downtown San Mateo, and I had not been in Downtown San Mateo for some time, but now they have they closed. Mhmm. Main Street. Yeah. 3rd and that main Yeah. Main Street, it's closed. Mhmm. And I thought it was great. And it was it was, like, Thursday at 04:00.

Yeah.

And it was people were outside hustling and bustling and eating at the the restaurants.

We've talked a lot about options like that, like finding a day where we could do some closing Yeah. And trying to figure out how we could do it in a way that would support the businesses, but not be a hamper to the businesses. So trying to find the right time to do that, but I've I've probably had that conversation a half a dozen to a dozen times with Nick and others. Just trying to find the right time to make sure it would work. I don't know where or what the right day is, but, you know, I think we would like to try to do more of that kind of stuff to really help activate and bring people.

Yeah. But I just don't wanna close the street or make something happen, and then that disproportionately impact a business that's like, oh, but then they couldn't get to my door, and then it was a problem. So just trying to Yeah. You know, work with them and make sure that it's, you know, is beneficial.

I know Paul talked about the alley, just having Mhmm. Been to the alley for to start it off and then see how it goes in terms of attracting people. And that's why I was thinking maybe just a DJ out here. Yeah. Those plaza

or some things. Yeah.

And then maybe start the street culture. I know it's not a consensus on that. But it it does look nice. I've been

there. Cool.

And last lastly, you mentioned at the last, student's meeting, but this, Pretty Fine Me is a new nail salon located at the Haywood Retail Center, aka Sprouts Center, aka former Kmart. And mayor Sungus attended in the facility that we've been cutting for the, the owners who are Haywood residents, Mark and Tao. That's a really cool story of entrepreneurialism. Tau had worked in nail salons all her life for, like, over fifteen years, and her partner Mark said, let's let's go in together. And and they moved up here in 2021.

They said, let's go in and open our own shop. And so they are the latest tenant in the Hayward retail center, and it looks it looks fantastic. It's how we encourage you and the community to go out and support them. They're they're they're your neighbors.

Yeah. And the whole let me see if I say this right. The with the the the material, you know, the the nail polish Mhmm. They don't have the acrylic. They're non acrylic based nail polish. When you walk in, you're like, you're not, you know, overwhelmed by that Yeah. Smell. And, like, you walk in and it's it smells like an amateur. It's something like that. It was I mean, yeah. It was quite nice.

We will be having a ribbon cutting soon, November for Nobibi ice cream, which is a Southern California ice cream concept. They're open now and they're soft opening, you can go support that they're next door. Can pretty funny. Oh. But we'll be doing an official ribbon cutting on the fifteenth to Saturday in the afternoon, and then that will leave just one last tennis space open in the entire center.

And I should also say that Mark and Tal

Mhmm.

They're just, like, really cool people. Like, you know, just great business owners. They're totally It's great to see. Yeah. They're totally into it. They're into their business. They're into, like, what they're doing. It shows, and they're totally happy here.

Yep. And it's a very similar story with no b b. That that's a human person.

Yeah. That's awesome. Perfect.

That's all, Steph. Thank you. Nice. You too. Thank you.

Alright. Meeting adjourned.