Council Budget and Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Okay. Good evening, everybody. Today is Wednesday, 01/15/2025. Budget council budget finance committee, it is 05:30PM, and I'd like to call the meeting to order. And I don't know who will miss Mello, are you taking take role? Sure.

Mayor Sweeney. Present. Council member Bonhoejin.

Present.

And council member Syrah. Thank

you. I'd like to close that, move on to public comments. This is would there for anybody in the public who'd like to make a comment or something on

the agenda, and I don't need to get there.

Is there anybody online that would like to make a public comment? Seeing none, and there's nobody in the room who would like to make a public comment, so I'd like to close public comment and then move on to, approval of minutes. I'll second move by council member Bonilla, second by council member Cyram. There are no objections that can be done.

We can with one request. Do you think that maybe we can put some of the answers to these questions in the minutes? Because the minutes are just

so, like, I'll stick to that.

Okay. Moving on to reports and action items. Item number two, transit or transit occupancy tax, TOT review, and I believe director Gonzalez is gonna kick this off.

Yeah. Thank you. So the item this evening, we have a review of the. I think I have a short presentation with some updates. You do have a copy of the presentation as well, so I'll just keep going on.

So just as a reminder, back in 2020, the city approached the staff, approached council with, the opportunity to explore its, increasing its current TOT. The TOT, rate at the time of 2020 was eight and a half percent. And so, again, that's a tax that is typically associated with what we refer to as a hotel tax. Those are paid by people who stay in a hotel. It's a tax that is is charged by the hotel and then remitted to the city.

At the time, it it was the city of Hayward was one of the lowest cities to with its TOT, tax rate set at eight and a half. We approached council with the opportunity to look, to increase that tax. We did receive approval. We did some polling as well, which was pretty supported by the community. So in '20, '20, it was under the ballot.

So so we ballot measure to increase, the TOT from eight and a half to up to 14. That gave counsel authority to set the rate at anything between 8.5 to 14%. And as a reminder, that was measure NM. At the time, if you recall, we were in the midst of the pandemic. We were fortunate enough that the Hayward community did approve and pass that bond measure.

But the council recognized that our hotelers were suffering as part of the the impacts of COVID and said, we're not interested right now in exercising our authority to increase that tax up to 14% and so chose to leave it at eight and a half. So here we are today. We have not presented a recommendation to counsel. We have presented an analysis to this committee back in November 2022, which gave an outline of the type of revenue that we collected at at eight and a half percent, but also per my analysis of what the revenue could look like should we have exercised that authority and set by 10%, 12%, or 14%. The next slide.

So just as a reminder, we did do a survey. These are current comparisons. So there have been a number of agencies since the city approved measure NN that have also increased their TOT. The city of Hayward still remains one of the lowest, if not the lowest city of the comparative agencies that we looked at. The majority of agencies are well above 10% at this point.

And so just wanting to to, again, demonstrate your favorite still remains what it's like. Yeah. Go ahead. So this is kind of the analysis that we wanna talk to counsel about when we wanna talk to this committee about and get feedback from you on whether or not you, as the finance committee, want to recommend what should be presented to the full council for consideration. And so just wanting to show in fiscal year, you should see in this the first column is eight and a half.

So these are our actual revenues. So over the average of five years, as we continue to recover from the pandemic, the city receives about $2,000,000 in TOT revenue each year. That does go to the general fund. So the next three columns demonstrate what the revenue potentially could have looked like had the TOT been set at 10%, 12%, or 14. So if the city chose to increase the TOT from eight and a half to 14 and a half, on average, the city would collect about, 3,300,000.0.

So that's about a million 0.3 more annually than the city's currently collecting. And so that, just kinda gives you some demonstration of what it looks like and where the city could look to increase its, its revenue sources. Next slide. So that's the majority of what we have for you this evening. There's a little bit more detail on the staff report, but really wanting feedback from this committee on what they feel comfortable and how are they getting staff to move forward in full council for consideration.

And then my question

Alright. Thank you for this report. When was the last time it was increased? What year did it go to 08/20?

I don't have that information offhand, but it was set at August for, like, decades.

And then have we engaged any hotel operators in Hayward recently or had discussions around increasing this?

I guess We have things. But a lot of the conversation occurred when we took it to the Hayward Builders for approval. There were a lot of, committee meetings, a lot of public meetings that discussed, potential impacts to the hotelers. Obviously, there's concerns, that people could choose to go to another city. That's the point of demonstrating what the TOT tax is in neighboring cities.

The hoteliers don't actually pay the tax. They collect the tax from individuals who are staying at their facilities and then remitting it to the city. So it doesn't necessarily have a financial impact on their operations. The concern is if our TOT is so high, someone may look to say in San Leandro or Newark or Union But when we're seeing that they're set at 14%, that's that's not potentially gonna impact whether or they stay in Hayward.

Well, actually, that was my next question. Mhmm. Because the comparison was cities over a 100,000, and I wondered why we chose that comparison because they don't see those other cities like San Leandro, Union City, and New York on this list. And that would be my concern is if there are immediately adjacent cities are significantly lower than what we're setting it up. So I I would be interested in kinda seeing where they're at

Yeah.

Maybe in the next set of comparison data as well versus just looking at population size.

We can absolutely do that in whatever recommendation is moved forward to the city full council. I will say that just knowing different neighboring jurisdictions, Hayward is the lowest. It is lower than Union City. It is lower than Newark. It is lower than San Leandro. Hayward also has a different kind of pool being its location. It's right next to San Mateo Bridge, so it's advantageous for people who are are doing business across the bay. In San Mateo, there's a number of tech companies. We also have a number of biotech companies here in Hayward. So we have people that are coming to do business here and want to stay within the community that they're with their meetings.

Yeah. Totally makes sense. And then, you know, with so we had said that some of these so so the hotels haven't kind of had any type of engagement with this yet. So I and and I guess what I'm wondering is if the initial rationale for why we didn't do this is because we were sort of concerned about the economics of these hotels and, let's just say, like, their stability within that climate, have they have has Hayward's hotel industry industry demonstrated a rebound that makes us feel comfortable enough to now say, we've seen a shift that's so significant in the hotels rebounding. We're now ready to increase this.

I would say just with my history working with the city of Hayward that about 2,000,000 is what we had been seeing, about 2,000,000 to two and a half billion pre COVID. And so we are about which is when you take into consideration the last five years, those include both 2020 and '21, and '21 was actually where we hurt the most. Right? Because 2020, we only had three three to four months left of that fiscal year that we really impacted on the shutdown. But 2021 was a full year. So that was our lowest year, and that was about 1,900,000.0. And that's what was the lowest we've seen. We've continued to see an increase. And I think we can go back to yeah. So, like, last year, there was an increase.

You know, we're back up to 2.4, 2.3. Yes. Thank you. '24, we we are working with our consultants on performing audits. We do know that there was a hotel that, did not permit its, TOT. And so we are working with that hotel to make sure that they are, in compliance with their tax, remittance to the city. And so, that is, impacting, and it is about $400,000 that is city, from a particular hotelier. So, again, really starting to see that ramp up to back to where we were pre COVID.

And this is really super helpful to, I guess, to see that, you know, because, like, know, prior to COVID, like you said, we're about two million, and we're back there now. So it does make sense to have this conversation now, and it does seem like the economics within this particular sector, pay for its economy

Mhmm.

It it has rebounded. That sounds good. Know, I would I would be comfortable with, you know, ten or twelve percent. I would relate to what my colleagues have to say. I don't think we should go to 14. We're not San Francisco or Oakland or San Mateo. You know? I I think that I think that 10 to 12 is is comfortable. I'm kind of saying 12 because it's a million dollars, and that's gonna kind of make somewhat of material difference. You know? 400,000 probably isn't gonna do what we needed to do to help, you know, kind of offset some of the costs that these hotels are having on the city and the services that we're providing. So I'm pretty comfortable, you know, with the recommendation between ten and twelve

Yeah.

For now. And then and then perhaps in a year or two, we could have another analysis and see 14.

Mhmm. I I did wanna say I just researched the number of is that 14% confirmed, and Union City is at 13.86.

Yeah. And

and Union City is a little different. I remember looking there. They have a statement. Yeah. And it is up to 14%.

Yeah. And they're at 14.86. Yeah.

They have a How does

that phase in the year

goes up a little bit?

Yeah. I forget what the actual factor is is what's causing it, but there's is a an annual and it's very it's very interesting because it's, like, 13.54 and then a 13.86. So I'm not sure what the factor is that they're applying. I'd have to do a little bit more research. But they did, implement a phased in approach as well.

Would you recommend a phased in approach, or would you just kinda say you feel comfortable with kind of jumping straight to 12 or maybe even 14?

I would be comfortable jumping completely to 12. I think the city has justification. And our operations that we're seeing in hoteliers, knowing where our neighboring jurisdictions are, understanding the business demographic here in Hayward, a neighboring across from San Mateo, that 14% is reasonable. I think the city has been very thoughtful. It it could have just immediately increased it to 14% in 2020, but was very thoughtful about the impact it had on its business community.

And you can see that there's been significant amount of revenue loss over the last five years. And so I think that it is time. I think if the council wanted to phase it in, I think starting with 14 or excuse me, 12% and phasing into 14 is is understandable. But I don't think that in out of the realm of possibility or to to go directly to 14% because the city over the last five years has not collected where they potentially could have.

Makes sense. I really like that idea of phase going well and then phasing it to 14 is, I think, wise that that's kind of the way I'm leaning out by the. Thanks.

Yeah. And then just for our reference, Newark is 14% now as well. They just set a ballot initiative called Measure LL, and they went 10 to 14, and the voters approved that one. So all of our neighboring cities, pretty much 14%. I appreciated your question. It has to be the same thing too when folks are shopping for a hotel. They're looking for vicinity to destination, not necessarily population size. So I think I'm also in alignment with the recommendation you're making. I wanna start with 12 and, you know, explore phasing into 14 as part of the recommendation. And then, you know, when we decide to activate that phasing in is really up to the council, but I think also just kinda setting the expectation with the community that we will likely be phasing in towards 14 down the line just so no one feels blindsided by an increase and then a follow-up increase.

Mhmm. But 12 would be my recommendation too. So we're looking this, and we're seeing, you know, average of 3,300,000.0 a year if we had done 14. That's I don't know. I can't do the math between us, but or, you know, around $15,000,000 that we we missed out on revenue wise while subtracting what we actually did. Right. So a little bit significantly less than that, you know, a couple million dollars. I am curious in our current TOT. Do we have a carve out for emergency shelter services? Because I know sometimes we partner with hotels or motels or different agencies may have a partnership where they use an emergency voucher to get somebody housed. Mhmm. I don't want us to incur or put that cost when we're trying to put emergency services forward. Do we know about that relationship or if this will impact that relationship?

I don't believe so. It's it's a different, program. I know that we offer some vouchers as well.

Yeah.

So I think it's it's that again, the tax is actually put on whoever is reserving the room, and so it was worth a Yeah. I'd have to we'd have to look at every hotel or to see how they're charging it Yeah. To be honest. K. But I don't see why we would pass that on necessarily when it's something that's a social program like that.

Okay. Great. Yeah. I just wanted to double check that. Maybe you with the full council report, just maybe a small note on that because if that's something we need to adjust policy wise, we should get on that because I don't want us to not get folks sheltered because we need

to some tax on that

or less folks sheltered rather. Otherwise, yeah, I think council member, we have shared most of my comments. This is really a great system of report. Thank you. Thank you.

And I got one last thing. What are

the latest going on plan? So what would this potentially be?

Based on direct affirmed counsel, we could take it as early as February, and you can have an effective date that's included in the resolution. You can do an effective for July 1. You can do effective immediate. I don't believe there's any restrictions. I can ask our city attorney if there's, like, a public noticing period. I don't believe so. Again, because it was a voted, on measure, it gave the council authority that we'll have that change.

Just a quick note on that timing wise. I mean, we have graduation season coming up, which is big in terms of travelers coming in. So I would I'd recommend for graduation season at the very latest for the next budget cycle just so we can incorporate it into our budget projections. I don't know how that feels for you.

Okay. Just a, you know, a bit of an observation. You know? I would say over the last six months or so, plus or minus, I've met with, you know, business people, developers that have come to Hayward to, like, look at land and property or business, you know, and so forth, who've been out of town. You know? And and when they when they tell me, yeah. I just flew in, you know, I'm here for a couple days, and I'm gonna go back home. Whatever. So I always ask them, where are you staying? And they always say, all but one person, the guy from gym from the airport, he's the only one that I have spoken to the last six months that have said, I'm staying at, like, at the exec order in La Quinta or whatever it's called.

He's the only one. And everyone I talk to you know? And I don't, you know, I don't get into all this about it. I just I just say, where do you stay? You know? And they say, Union City, New York, you know, and it's The city where? Conversely, Cal State, when, when they hire you know, when they go through job interviews, I always ask them, you know, where do you send, you know, candidates to stay? You know, they don't send them to the the the Hampton in the Hampton Hampton Inn. They don't send them to the to the what's it called? The Fairway or the sure. It's on whatever you know, the Fairmont or whatever right there on on 92.

Go for it.

Anyway, I say all of that because I want us to, I want us to be very careful with this. And if we were to go I mean, I when I when I got here, I was thinking ten, twelve. If we went to thirteen or if we started this sort of aggressive, sort of, you know, ratcheting up, you know, if at eight point five people aren't staying in Hayward, people aren't gonna stay in Hayward at fourteen or thirteen or whatever. Right? I mean, I doubt people I rarely ask what the TOT is when I go and check-in a hotel wherever I'm at.

But if, you know, there are some smart accountants out there that are, you know, planning trips for their executives or whatever, I mean, they I'm sure they look at that. I mean, I I would assume. So I just wanna be very careful what we do. The other one is, the other point I wanna make is, I did think about you know, I know we have social programs and, you know, we do vouchers. Whatever we do, I would hope that we include this one you know, it it includes all of that.

I mean, if we're gonna pay it, we should be paying ourselves. I mean, you know, and that's all part of the whole the whole process. And and that was the other reason why we were very we were very, I don't know how to say, careful as to how we implemented this, especially during the, you know, during the pandemic because, you know, we were housing a

lot of people in motels and hotels. You

know you know, the other one was the market. You know? I mean I mean, do we know why people stay in Hayward? I mean, is it business? Is it I mean, I I don't know that. Maybe the hotels know, and, you know, maybe this is something that we talk to the hotels. And by the way, when we first did this back in 2020, we got a we got calls from the hotels. I mean and they were

not happy at all.

You know? And and I think we were able to keep them at bay at least because we told them It's a tool that we wanna have in the in the toolbox. We're not gonna increase their at after the election, but we said, you know, we will do this, you know, as time goes. So, you know, they're not totally unaware of what this conversation is about, and I'm sure I'm sure they're thinking about it, especially as those new hotels are coming onboard on the airport. I don't know when the air the hotel's gonna come onboard on mission, and I know there's, you know, have to watch that sort of start fit and start start fits and starts, over the last several months.

But, anyways, I guess my my my comment is I'm curious, you know, why people are staying in Hayward if they are to stay in Hayward. And, and and if the TOT is even an issue. I I know you guys didn't probably do you guys didn't do that analysis, but maybe that's a conversation we have in the chamber. Maybe that's a conversation we have with with the hotel owners. I know there's a few hotel I I know a few of the hotel owners, and I'm sure they have that data. I mean, I'm sure they do. We can it's worth a a conversation with them.

You

know, the other one, I just wanna be you know, I I put at Chabot, Cal State. You know, we have all the the athletic teams that are you know, they come and they stay. I don't know where the the teams stay. The last time I checked the last time I I checked, I I asked, and I they don't stay any. The you know, they don't they're not staying. They're not, you know, the Yeah. The volleyball teams, and they're in Oakland. They're staying in so, you know, we just I don't know if it's the TOT. Well, let me say it this way. Regardless of what it is, whether it's TOT or or what, they're still not staying in Hayward.

And we just you know, I guess I wanna, you know, I wanna get to, like, how do we get people to stay in Hayward? And, you know, I mean, we can you know, if it's the TOT, then, you know, we need to think about it. But if it's not the TOT, we could raise it to 20%, you know, and if no one's staying at Hayward, you know. So I I you know, I'm I'm, you know, I was thinking 10%. I'm I'm a little leery when we go up to move start, especially with the ratcheting up.

I you know, I'm you know? But I'm, you know, I'm willing to take this to the council and have them have us sort of hash it out on the council level, but those are my my central concerns. You know, I, and I also wanna be very careful too where, you know, going from eight and a half to or 8% or whatever to, like, 12 to 13%, that's a large jump. And so, you know and how much of how much would it cost? I mean, I don't know. You know, how much is a let's see the average cost of a room and then, you know, what does that look like? You know, I don't I don't know how much a ham is in a nightstand. It is, but it would be interesting to see.

And I do know, that there was some analysis done years ago about occupancy in the different hotels. And I believe economic development was part of that conversation, so I'm happy to connect with Paul and Yeah. About that. We work with a consultant, Avenue Insights, who does all of our sales tax, but also works on our TOT analysis for us as well as doing our our TOT audit. And so we can absolutely work with both Paul and his team as well, and I'm gonna look at some more.

Mhmm. And even if I I mean, I'm looking at the other cities. I mean I mean, let's look at the other cities. I mean, okay. So take out I mean okay. So when well, I know we're not at San Francisco. You know, we're not, you know, we're not Fremont. I get it. But, I mean I mean, how Richmond? I mean you know?

Our neighbors are all 14%, though.

Well, that's my I mean, yeah. I mean,

how What if we what if we did 11? If if if we're saying 12 if, you know, maybe there's a sentiment for 12 and the mayor's concerned about hoping, alright. He's more comfortable with 10. What if we did 11%?

Yeah. I mean, I I think it'd be nice to leave with maybe a shared recommendation that

Yeah. I I my my thing is this. I I mean, I get what you're saying. I I I get it. But I think my I guess I'm I'm just concerned about, you know I don't know if this is the issue. I think the issue is getting people to stay in

here. Mhmm.

And, you know, and and then test the market. I mean, you know, I mean, how much more willing how much more are people willing to pay with the state and aim? I mean, like, my concern is that when I randomly ask people, so where are you staying? Yeah. They don't say I'm staying at the Hampton. Yeah.

That's a 8.5. So I I don't think the TOT's industry here. Like Yeah. If that 8.5, we're starting

to Well, that's my point. There's I mean, they're they're staying in what's what's Union City? About 14%. There you go.

46. Yeah.

Why are they staying in Union City paying higher and not staying as Hayward when it's across the street? The job interview is literally across the street.

Probably because they don't see the taxes. When you go on to the hotel website, it's like a $199. We don't see that taxes until, like, this. Right? So, basically, it's going to see. And I do think I don't have the empirical data to please, but they do. That's why these hotels are gonna be nice. They're really good. Yeah. Otherwise, they wouldn't do that. So those hotels are probably doing the market analysis that justifies Yeah. Right. The market in New York.

The mayor's point around, you know, why aren't folks staying? It could be a question that we're curious to hear from Paul around the amenities we offer. You know, like, when executives travel, knows how to handle high security. Right? Like, what do our hotels know how to handle, and is there a few larger teams or conference rooms that we're not is there an amenity we're not providing which is needing to folks not attending? But, yeah, eleven or twelve, ideally, because I'd like to implement this tax sooner rather than later, it'd be nice to have a shared vision that we could present to the council. So you're imagining a public hearing or a work session as a next step?

We could do a work session, I think, would be the better next step, especially if there's I'll do a work

session because right now, I mean Okay. I'm I'm willing to bring this forward, but I'm I'm not sold.

Okay.

I mean, I'm

yes. We need to increase it. Yeah. But I don't know. I want

But if we met you at eleven, would you do a

public hearing? Well, I mean, no. We'll pay you some time. Okay. Okay. Okay. Just, you know, I think we need to we need to talk to the hoteliers, and then we need to talk to the chamber Yeah. And just kinda you know? And and I I mean, and I'll talk to you guys. Yeah. Definitely.

Just eager to, you know, correct any structural deficit. It might be approaching the next couple of years. This is a major step towards that. Right.

I mean, I could tell you right now, the guy over on 92. Yeah. The the the the Fairmont or whatever it's called, Fairfield. The Fairfield. His central concern, it's safety. It's it's unhoused all underneath the freeway. People don't like to show up because, you know, their cars get broken anyways. It's there there's things around the hotel that, you know, people talk about.

Yeah.

And they say, I'm gonna stay there again. You know? I mean, this so it was yeah. Gotcha. So, anyways, so I guess the recommendation from hearing everybody is that, you know, looking at 10 to 12%, possibly taking this taking this to counsel with a recommendation of 10 to 12% possibly.

Phasing in a higher percentage, wherever possible. Yeah. Okay. That's alright with you.

Then it'll be a worse rate.

Worse ratio. Okay.

Anybody else on this? You know what

will be interesting is if we have this.

Yeah. I mean the case, I mean. Well, it won't be the first time it's an issue that nobody calls in. Hopefully,

we can let the hotel.

Yep. Okay.

Anybody else? How about if I open this up for public comment? Is there any public comment online in the room? I don't see anybody. So I'll close this item, and I'll go to future agenda items.

I think we have one more. It's they always get in an oral presentation.

Oh, the yeah. Okay. There you go. I didn't see it. Okay.

I have a very brief, update on the twenty fiscal year twenty twenty sixth, that's a problem calendar. If you can hit that, thank you. I made a correction Printed. But this is just kind of a higher level of, like, processes look like. I'm working with, assistant's new manager, Youngblood, and doctor Alvarez, to go, through that calendar and process in more depth, finalized dates.

But, this is a very similar year where we kick off our annual budget process in January. In the months of February and March, departments prepare their, budgetary request. They do their budget review, make any necessary adjustments. We present those for consideration to the manager. And then those recommendations are then, included in the proposed document, which is going to be published, tentative typically on April 25, and will be distributed to counsel for their review in preparation for the Saturday work session on May 10, with the public hearing adoption schedules for.

So, again, these are very tentative dates. It does align with the last several years that we have

built our budget process. And

the the May 10, is that the do you know what that's? The IPA festival in Downtown Avery?

I did not know. Yeah. Okay. We like

There's usually IPA, single to mile, or the May the May Day.

Yes. Yeah. They're people calling you.

Is that spring break? No. No. Oh.

I was saying swim meet.

Oh, swim meet. So the manager is really saying is five slides. Okay.

I have nothing on

that slide. Just a question on process. So for the request submitted to review portion February through March Mhmm. I'm wondering if we can incorporate some formal way for council inputs to be taken into consideration. I think in the past, typically, it's coming from staff up.

Mhmm.

And then it kinda relies on more informal conversations to collect feedback from the council around their perspective. But there have been conversations around code enforcement, housing division, you know, a space to discuss vacancies that exist, how long these vacancies have existed. So, yeah, I guess, maybe it's just a note around process. I don't if it requires a kind of formal vote, but just it would be nice to create an avenue for Castle input around budget requests. So with that said, let me just add let

me just add this. Alvarez just you he may have already been told. But so, you know, I I I try to have a very strict five slide, you know, you know, format. And and the reason why that is is primarily because it it shifts the it shifts the burden on the council to study to read and study and and to do our own work. Yeah.

And and the assumption is, staff is there to present on a high level, you know, the information, but it enables us to talk more. I mean and before I mean, you know, there'd be fifth twenty minutes or twenty five minutes. Staff would talk for twenty two and a half minutes, and then there'd be two minutes to ask questions. So, you know, so my request would be just, you know, keep, you know, keep department heads just keep the presentations tight. Let us do let us do our homework. And and I think it'll open up those conversations. And and that's you know? Because before we there was literally Yeah. It was just a big congratulatory session. Basically, what it was.

And so, that would be my only request, and I think that would.

Yeah. I I I don't see them as mutually exclusive. I I support the mayor saying here because the discussion is what's important. I think it's you know, when we have those discussions, if it I'll just speak to myself, not feeling like the input was incorporated into the process where those presentations may you know, one specific council member might not get what they want out of the budget going forward. That's natural. But at least it's not the first time they're hearing that news or the presentation speak to that, which is why I think it'd be helpful to know what the council is thinking around just over the past year of work where we feel like there's gaps in services that we're offering our community. So that yeah. I don't know what that process would look like

in your But, also, when when we get the budget packet, you know, as we're reading, you know, there is time to ask to ask the right questions in advance. Yeah.

I see what you're saying.

Yeah. I mean, there's Okay. But I I

get what you're saying. Yeah. I totally I totally get it. Yeah. And what what I would say is that's kind of what we need to be running through, doctor Albrecht. So, like, what I'm gonna start doing is if I have ideas that in which I think we're budget obviously, I'm not the budget expert. I don't understand all the priorities in the city, but I would certainly say, hey. Here are some things that I think would be a priority. And then, ultimately, that would be your decision to figure out how you would get through the budget or not because of other things that you're seeing within the budget. Right?

So I think as long as we're funneling that feedback through the city manager's office, then the city manager can figure out how that moves through the process and gets either incorporated or not. And then it could be just, you know, a reason as to why. Because I can see because, you know, like, with the code enforcement thing, for an example, it's like, how how are we supposed to know how many more code enforcement officers we need? Right? We can throw a number and say five. But if we just say, hey. It seems like code enforcement might be understaffed for some of the priorities that we're dealing with, then I think that's incumbent on the city manager and then say, okay. Let's go back to my department heads. Let's you know you know, like, whatever. Right?

So I think as long as the council just runs it through the central person being the city manager, that's how we can influence this more than, I think, trying to go and speak with department heads and then force different proposals through the process. And I wouldn't

be suggesting that. I mean, of course, city manager offers. It's it's really just, you know, formalizing. When I say formalizing, it sounds really intense, but, rather than, oh, because I remember during my one on one just to provide that feedback. Or if we have a a year where the city manager's not seeing that feedback, how do we ensure that feedback is still being collected? So I think it just makes us more responsive to the city. So it doesn't have to be anything too heavy. I don't know if you have thought.

Well, yes. Thank you so much. I would say that you have several opportunities, the budget process is not only the allocation of public funds, but it's also a policy document that has, you know, long term impacts. So when it's correctly aligned, it should really speak to the campus priorities. And as I'm listening to the conversation, I would tell you that you have a strategic road map. So any new additions, any new requests should really be reflective and aligned with that strategic road map. Okay. So city council already has a very important within the process. Yeah. The budget doesn't stand alone in asylum. It's tied to other policy directions or or other policy documents like the

strategic program.

Okay. And and that comes before

Yeah. That be that's

That comes, like, next month or so. When when?

The twenty fifth?

Or this month? On February. On February. Okay. In May 25?

I see. So once that road map is once the kind of strategic direction is kind of, let's just say, it's, you know, formed, not set but formed, then staff will go back and kinda cost things out. And then we'll start to see how that the budget alliance and then we might have to change our priorities, but it's gonna be focusing on those kind of governance things versus dipping into the budget and saying, you're there. It's really saying these priorities will have to be adjusted in order to meet the budget.

Yeah. And I will say creative conversations. Yes. And

I will say when departments are preparing their budget request, that is a field that they need to complete of whether or not this is a request that supports a strategic road map project, and they're asked to identify it so that as we are meeting with the city manager, we can highlight those, right, and and prioritize those in a different way based on directions and prioritization from the council.

Gotcha. Just one more small note. Thank you for putting together the vacancy report. Uh-huh. Yeah. A small request that I have just as I think it'd be useful for the whole council and the whole team is lengthy days. Mhmm. And it doesn't have to be for every single day that consists of a lot, but just the outliers. Like, if we've seen a a session we've struggled with Bill or I don't know. What would you think was meaningful? Like, six months plus? Or

Well, yeah, a year plus, I think.

A year plus? Yeah.

It's not that we're big yet. We had run that report internally. Yeah. So we do have access to

that. Yeah. So if we're able to easily modify the preexisting dates published, that would be really helpful because, you know, we need headcount in other places, and we've grown our headcount quite a bit over the last ten years. So I'm just kind of expressing my interest in not expanding that but seeing how we reallocate appropriately. That that's interesting,

you know, because I mean, what what would you say is a meaningful vacancy duration? Because if a position is open a year, obviously, my view would be, do you really need the position because you just operated a year without it? So, I mean, would you really wait that long to see an aging report on vacancies, or would you wanna see it?

So it it depends on each agency. I still don't know enough of Hayward to be able to tell you, but it really it's about when you can get boots on the ground. And that means how for in terms of when the vacancy begins, when there's someone in the chair. And the average and I don't know. Okay. Well, it's about six months. Anything more than that, I really would like it will raise my my attention. But just to give you an idea, in the city and county of San Francisco, it's not unusual to have position vacant for eight to twelve months because that's how long the process is.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then they have an attrition rate, which is another tool that vacancies need to be remained open for mandatory for a certain number of period of time to be able to create savings that are already built into the budget, which is called an attrition rate. I don't know if Hayward has that. We built one with that. We did.

Three to six months of vacancies.

Because it that's a link of the process

Yeah. Generally.

And it really is kinda dependent on the position itself, like doctor said. So something that is a more entry level might be able to be filled within three to four months versus public safety. It might be anywhere from four to eight months. And so it was leading people take that into consideration as well.

But the question that you're asking, customer Bonilla, is very reasonable, and I I have asked those questions. If depending on the position, the question is if it's been vacant for more than a year. But but I ask, where's the requisition? Mhmm. If there's no requisition issue, then you don't need the requisition. But that would be

HR people talk

to you.

Come on. But

But it really begins that's the genesis to understand whether or not there's a need. And also, there's there's practices that I frown upon when there's intentionality by the by divisions of departments to keep certain positions vacant to shift dollars somewhere else because that goes against the position control document and other mechanics, which is approved by the That

is something that At least I have some small concerns.

So So let's Exactly. That's So

let's let's I'd like to understand those better. Yeah. And, again, this is my fourth day, And I'll get to know more details. But those questions are the right questions. I it's one of my is in my ass for finance and HR. What is the vacancy right here?

And and we do to your point, we do have vacancies that have been open, not those kind of longer public safety ones, but, you know, engineer positions or other positions that have been vacant for years. Yeah. And in this last budget, we, for the first time, were able to reallocate, like, three positions from Public Works and gave them a

down chart. Mhmm. Gotcha. Okay. For you the update. Thank you. Yeah.

Dana, you got my kinky operation myself.

Yeah. Yeah. No. I'm sorry.

What is I was asleep with pizza.

We a system. That is where we put in a request to fill a position. Mhmm. So a requisition to actually post it is an active vacancy. Yeah. And so that is another excellent form that if the position has been vacant for so long, you're not even actively recruiting.

Yeah. You

can't you can't need it.

Yeah.

Right.

That's good

to know. So, I mean, not to ask you to put too much more work into this, but it might be helpful to see that ratio too. Like, how long has this been a, you know, a year plus plus, like, the inactive requisitions for it with whatever metric we think is useful just so we we understand too.

Yeah. That might be a it's not impossible. Okay. It's a little more difficult since the requisition system is a different solution than actual, like, employment Got it. System. So we use Munis for

Got it.

All of our financial as well as our employee data. But the actual requisition requests are just an outside Understood.

If it's too much work, it's totally okay.

We can absolutely and and I think we work with department heads to really identify, like, we know which positions have been vacant a very long time. And some of it is that they have been vacant, get them filled, and then they get very quickly. Sometimes it's just a very difficult position

to Yeah. I understand that.

But I'm sure that Britney and I can work. I know we have some older data, but Yeah. From last year. So it's about a year old, but we probably could refresh that.

Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Well, what an interesting dynamic to have money in the budget, but not in your requisition of my. You know, you get that savings, and you can allocate it for, obviously, responsible things. But

Well, as long as it stays within the sample.

Yes. It

is. Yes. It is. Okay. Okay. Now that the tutorial of HR is over, we can move on to future agenda.

Everyone should have it in their packet, but Christy's gonna pull it up as well. And just over the next several months, some of the different items we have scheduled to pre be presented.

So with the real estate update, that's gonna include the theater. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Great. Because I'm starting to receive some questions around folks that might be interested in running out some of the spots. The the the kind of process around engaging with that, both as a community member, but also the council member group. You know, what leeway do we have to help kinda shape the vision for that, either in the kinds of services or businesses we wanna see that help foster growth. Yeah.

And I think we probably can potentially have Paul attend this meeting as well just to kinda provide some lens on economic development concepts and kind of what he sees in the industry. So he might be able to come speak from that person.

That would be great. I'd love to hear his perspective. So I I kind of wanna get a sense of, like, what is our strategic plan around this building. It's it's so central, yeah, and such an opportunity.

Sorry. It just it was a sharing. Oh, it looks like I'm kinda

And then just a request. After the budget is done, we have this budget process debrief on the in June. But if we could talk about the Hayward Community Foundation at some point, I think, especially as we're thinking about using it for, you know, other potential projects with the city. It should just be good to understand it. I I think it just kept getting pushed off and on the agenda. Are are y'all okay with that?

Yeah. And, I mean, I'm just I mean, after the budget, I'm just, like, done with it. I don't know. Do we need to talk about this? But but, anyway I'm willing to change it. That's why.

Yeah. Do want on a different I mean, could be on a different line.

That's We

could pencil it in. And as as we get closer to that date, people are delaying exhausted by finance, it can be moved to a later date. Okay. I think one of the things, just for the benefit of this group and for for you, is that the city had been working with the Hayward Community Foundation and had significant challenges with that partnership. And so one of the things that was being considered to bring forward to this group were some alternatives.

Yeah.

Looking at the Silicon Valley Community Foundation. I think there's one at East Bay Community Foundation was another. Then to also look at Kansas City, which was the initial Yeah. Kind of model that the city is looking at and whether or not that's something that the city of Hayward would like to look at.

Got it.

So I think in addition to kind of where we're at with our relationship with the Hayward Community Foundation, what are some potential Yeah. Other relationships that we want to con you know,

explore potentially? That would be helpful. I was under the impression we were partnering with the State of the Foundation already, and we're, like, a subset of them. Is that the current

That's what it that

is correct.

But Silicon Valley is one and same with the Kansas City, and there's one other. Haven't This is community value sheet too. There may be. Okay. There's a lot more that are are beginning to form. So we renewed our relationship with the East Bay Foundation, there were not as many. And Silicon Valley was having some changes in leadership, and so paused on engaging with that.

Got it. Because I know that we were also exploring partnering with the state sorry, with the Richmond Community Foundation for the social impact bond housing program. So we already kinda have a previous relationship there. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that this the there was some issue with the Silicon Valley Foundation. There

were because

I know the the friends of the Chabot College Foundation, we had money in the pool. Anyways, that was everything's Okay. Okay. Alright. If there's no other question, moving on to committee member and staff announcements. Are there any announcements?

Anything at all.

Any at all? No. I I did wanna, I did wanna say, I know we did get the the letter and, you know, directed resolve. I know you're gonna be leaving us at the end of the month. You know, I first of all, I just wanted to say thank you. I did email you, and and I wanted to say thank you for your work with us. You've been with us for a very long time. You know, I I I kinda take this personal because you're a student of mine. And, yeah, she was a poor yeah. Not a math student.

Not math. But it it has been just an absolute honor and and just a pleasure to work with you. You know, when when you became the director, it was it was exciting. You know, you've really made this aspect of the work arguably you know, don't let, you know, public safety hear this, but, you know, arguably the most important part of the of the building. But but you have you have really, really kept this organization steady, and and really focused on priorities and and and, at the end of the day, enabled us to pay for it.

And and, and we would not have been able to do that without you, Finris. We have done some very complex financial, maneuvers and, you know, and and applications, and you have been in the middle of that every step of the way. And so, it is our loss. I have told, mayor Gonzalez, that, if it doesn't work out, we'll we'll certainly take you back. But mayor Gonzalez a good guy, and I you know?

And, you know, he you know, he's he's also a finance guy. Yeah. So, you know, don't I think you're smarter him. Smarter than you. But Congratulations, and thank you very much for everything.

Thank you. I appreciate all the opportunities that I've been given here for those that are newer to the council. I actually started here as budget officer and then became the deputy director, and I was promoted to direct. So I've really grown professionally here, and it's been a wonderful place. I shared my response back to you that Hayward really has become my second home in the last seven years.

I absolutely love this community. I think it is just wonderful things, I've been very happy and take a lot of pride in in my contributions to this community. And now I I move on to the city of San Leandro where I actually live, and so it will be an interesting opportunity for me to work for the community in which I live. And so I'm excited for that as well. So thank you. I just want I'll fix I I just wanted to say thank

you too. You know? Like, you make this whole budget process so simple. Like, there's this can be a very bureaucratic process. It could be overly complicated. I know there's a lot of complexity that goes into municipal budgeting, but you just make it so simple for us. You you're able to, you know, digest very complex information and help us understand it and actually feel smart about a budget that we probably don't know usually as much about as we think we do. And, you know, your confidence, your person you know, how personable you are. I just always enjoyed working with you. You know, you're not afraid to address the hard questions.

You're always transparent. You're always willing to put in the hard work. And I don't even know what other city that is that you're going to because I just really want to stay here and we're gonna see you a lot. And I was just thinking, like, you know, we have such a bigger budget. So I know you're gonna go over there and do cakewalk work. Brilliant.

You've a lot of great work

here, and it's just so good to see somebody grow in the city, and it's great to see our community represented in leaders like you as well. So we're really gonna miss you. You have big shoes to fill, and thank you for everything you've done here.

Yeah. I you know, echoing what my colleagues have said. I think, it's, like, the bittersweet aspect of Hayward that, like, we developed some of the best civic workers out there, and then the downside about the double that we end up losing enough job response, but I'm you know, I still wanna start by saying congratulations. I think it's an awesome opportunity. And, you know, some of the things that motivated me to run for this role is my tie to where I live.

And I'm excited, you know, when we cross paths again to hear your reflections on what that means for you once you get settled into the role. I just especially wanted to thank you for your openness. You know, I know we did some work around public banking in the past. I really appreciate your willingness to engage with that. I appreciate you just taking on all the questions that I've thrown your way as I try to understand this budget myself, and just really wanna express gratitude for helping us navigate negotiations, especially as a really, you know, a much newer council where half of us were kind of in this role for the first time and going through it.

It just felt you were really reliable with that process and made me feel a lot better about understanding it. And I know we threw a lot of frantic and frenetic, like, what's going on with our budget at you for the past six months? And we're much calmer now, so thank you for seeing us through that too, not just negotiations, but the budget ones that inevitably come with them. So, yeah, I'm definitely, going to miss your presence here. Like, Catherine O'Bernia said, you leave huge shoes to fill, and I just I'm excited to see what you do with the budget in in San Leandro as nerdy as that sounds. This has this has been one of the more engaging, if not the most engaging committee for me outside of housing, of course, particularly because of the way that you present your work and the team that you've been able to steward. So thank you.

Well, and San Leandro comes with some storage of budget challenges. So, I mean, good luck.

Well, good. Congratulations. So if there are no other business, meetings adjourned at 06:24. Alright. Within one hour.