Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

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Okay. Good evening. I would like to call Town of Harrisburg Planning and Zoning Board meeting for November 18th, 2025 to order. Um, so we have an agenda in front of us and I need a motion to adopt that agenda. Motion to motion. Do I have a second? I'll second. All in favor? I I Okay. Um, special presentations. We have one special presentation. So that's me. That's you. So I need to get up already. I just got sit down. All right. So, as a special presenter, I will

Oh, it's here. Okay, there you go. Almost ended our professional presentation. All right, so I'm Bill Leak, if you don't know. Hey, Bill. And Bill,

I am the educational entertainment for this evening. So, we're going to talk about trees a little bit, urban forests and uh how they're important to the town. Titled this right tree in the right space. Um the little proverb there at the bottom, best pl time to plant a trees. 20 years ago, the second best time is now. I want to point out one thing on this slide. Um we're all familiar with the crown and the trunk of the tree. We often overlook the roots of the tree. That's why I got that in red. and they are just as critical to the health and welfare of that tree as the other two sections of the tree and they are the biggest challenge in the urban environment. So, and in our personal environments, our home to talk about our home, too. We're going to talk about the town. We're going to hit a little bit of both of that. All right. So, now we're going to start off talking a little bit about our town and how we're going, you know. So, we all know the value of trees, right? They give us oxygen. They absorb carbon dioxide and other toxins out of the air. They have monetary benefits. They have social benefits and environmental benefits, right? I kind of, you know, used to think about, oh, by the way, if y'all don't know, so I was the city of Concord's arborist and I retired and now I'm here trying to promote trees in the town, too, like I did the city of Concord. So anyway, they had these benefits and you know, as a town or a city, you know, we we give our citizens water and we take away the sewage, you know, and address those critical needs. So a town that adopts the concept that we think that good urban force are important is just trying to give oxygen to its citizens. So I think it's a good thing. It's it's worth it. So but there's a lot of challenges to that and I'm going to highlight some of them. I'm not going to get all of them, but you know, first one, public and investor perception. Not everybody thinks trees are great because trees have benefits, but trees do have liabilities. I mean, right now, everybody's messing with

their leaves and they're not as happy about their tree as they are in July and it's 98 degrees. Oh, I like my tree today. Right now, they may not like the tree. So, but with an urban forest, how do you get the most of the benefits but limit bit limit the liability and risk? It's how you manage it. If you do nothing, some people say if you do nothing to the tree, you're doing nothing wrong. Well, that's not always true. Sometimes you do it the tree a disservice if you don't manage it. So, public may not feel the same way about that. You know, it's a it's a fine line of balance. You know, us as a board, we need to encourage it because long term, you know, that oxygen, that green space that it's just something that, you know, it's beneficial to a community. without it, you know, there's there's a lot of downside too. So, we need to strike a nice balance of that. Um, then investor perception, it's a cost to them. It's an inconvenience. Now, some investors, if you if you're reaching out to the right investors, they know that importance. So, as a town, who are we who are we communicating? Who are we building relationships with investors that don't think they're urban forces partner? investors that do investors that do are willing to say, you know what, it is a cost, but it's a worthwhile cost, and we're willing to work with the town to find happy mediums where we can plant trees, allow trees to survive to reap those benefits to the best of our ability. So, that's, you know, there's a lot of politics in that, but if the trees are important, the town and us as a board, we need to pursue that. Second one, quality ordinance requirements. It's just something you got to have. Um, we have a unique opportunity this board going forward with, you know, Harrisburg one plan. Once that's adopted, it's going to affect how this next ordinance comes up. So, there's opportunity to make changes, make improvement to the ordinance. So, trees are protected when we can, trees are replanted, replaced in

appropriate locations. You know, there's a lot of conflicts in uh our space because it's so valuable. That square foot of soil is so valuable to, you know, utilities want it, the investor wants it for profits, the town wants it for their needs, and the poor old tree just got to try to stick that in there somewhere. But if we we go ahead and we say we want that space for the tree, we want that space when that tree is big and tall that it's not a liability, but it's an asset. So, we got to manage that. How do we manage that? Next bullet, plan review. So, we've got the language in the ordinance. So, we, you know, we meet with these investors and all. You know, it's DRC is one of the first things. There's preliminary conversations that the town has and they they they throw out sketch plans. This is what we're thinking. This is what we're thinking. There's the town's opportunity. All right. Well, you know, where's the trees? What you going to do? You know, are you trying to just get by with the bare minimum or are you thinking ahead? You know, and you're thinking about something. So we need to support the town and all that with our ordinance language and when you know things come before us. Now once we get a site approved and it goes forward doesn't mean it's always going to happen that way. You heard an old saying you get what you inspect not what you expect. And it's very much true especially for a town that hasn't had that in the past. It's kind of a transition once you start holding developers accountable for what was approved and what gets installed. It'll it'll start coming around. Okay, you there's somebody looking now, you know, that we never knew. Nobody ever came out here and asked about it. And it's not that they're intentionally doing things. There's things that just kind of come up that aren't necessarily part of the plan review process like site lighting. They might throw out where they propose the lights to be, but it's not necessarily

if it's not put on that site plan in black and white. So, yes, that island in that parking lot will have a tree there, not a light. But down the road sometimes, well, you know, Duke Power says, "Well, we'll put the lights in for you, but we we don't set concrete ballards to set our poles. We just stick them in the dirt. So, we'll put our light pole in that that island over." They don't think it was a true lane. They just see a section that's got some dirt. Let change happens. Not intentional. It's what Duke said they'll do. And those are the things as a town we got to protect. Like no, the approved site plan has a tree here, not a light pole. You all got to rethink this. You got to get ahead of that, too, though. Somebody's got to communicate that. You know, if they're using investor utility lighting or they're even if they're installing their own, they may hire a person and they come up with a plan. Here's our lighting plan, you know. So, we ought we ought to be asking for lighting plans. Where are you proposing those plans? Just other stuff like that. So, site inspection during construction, then enforcement once it's done, who's the responsibility? Who those trees, those common open the common open space and subdivisions? You know, there's a lot of trees behind people's homes. So, we build this subdivision out. We saved all these trees. Well, guess what? Mr. Mrs. citizen buys the lot, that's my yard, too. And next thing you know, trees start getting cut down cuz we're going to expand our backyard. We're going to encroach into the common open space. Who's enforcing that? The HOA, the town, because it happens. Um, it happens with utility line clearance. I mean, you go down there, you go around town and have some of it happen. Required landscape got cut to the ground. It's been there 25, 30 years. Looked rough. Power company came through. So over on Caldwell Road, it's all gone. What do we do now? Can we enforce that? And our

ordinance says it's required in perpetuity, but did we communicate with Duke Power before they came in the town and said, "Hey, we have an ordinance. If you're going to remove these trees, are you going to put them back?" Of course, they're not going to. So, we've lost. They won't. We've lost. So unless you know the town comes up with money to replant and those are things that town could look into finding ways to replant you know find money find those pockets of money find benevolent contributors that'll give money and plant trees things the town needs to be looking for and again enforcement so that's another one of the important things and I hope going forward we'll be able to improve some of that all right so there's some of the conditions about so here's some more of the things the the site itself I I mean again that that square footage is so valuable. Everybody wants it. But if you don't specifically and you know in your ordinance say well there's going to be this much space for that tree it gets hard. The quality of the soil second bolt there. All this equipment's been running across that dirt packing it down. It's as hard as a red brick and you cut a little hole and flop a tree down in there and expect it to grow. So we need language in our ordinance that has soil amendments and you know an area for that root system to develop gives that tree a better fighting chance and it it it helps investors if they take that on the front end because one of the things that hey you know it's required in perpetuity so they build a site out and then code enforcement two years later say hey your trees are dead you got to replant them it's another cost well if you did it right the first time you wouldn't have to pay the second time so it helps developers we need to communicate that tool. Um, utility hardscape conflict. You know, I talked about that a little bit. There's just, you know, light poles, overhead power lines, underground power lines, sewer lines, sewer laterals, water lines, they all impact the tree roots, and it's just you can't get rid of all of it. But if

it's the trees are important, that's something the town says, well, they're important enough that we're willing to ex accept that additional cost. utilities will have to be repaired more often to get trees resp you you can you can adopt the concept well if we get 20 30 years out of a tree good we'll cut it down we'll start over again not necessarily the best for the tree and because you don't the larger that tree gets the more you reap benefits it absorbs more oxygen it's better for you until it gets a little bit too big for its space then it becomes a liability um I touched on this last bullet sight layout changes again light poles show up where they weren't on the site plan, little small design changes that are allowed. They're not necessarily they're not necessarily illegal, if you will, but they're just gray areas sometimes where the trees lose out. So, we need to have staff that's that's reviewing that, keeping up with that ongoing through that whole construction process. So, that's some site condition things. All right. Then just the trees and plants themselves. this is this is that right tree at the right place. Will it thrive in that site? You know, is it a species that's appropriate for that location, especially in urban environments because what's the biggest problem? Heat and lack of water. Not all plants like those conditions. Um you talk hear a lot of talk about natives and natives are a good thing, but unfortunately not all natives trees do well in urban environments. You have to have a mix. you sometimes you have to have non-native plants that aren't invasive to use in urban environments. You know, there's not really a perfect tree. They all all have a little something or other about them. And even with the ones that are successful in urban environments, usually there's some small little thing. There's a tradeoff for having that tree remain healthy in that. So, that's something that needs to

be reviewed by the town as citizens. I'll talk about that in your own yard. It's something you need to look at. Um, will it achieve the desired result? Do you want shade in the morning? Do you want shade in the afternoon? Are you looking for a windbreak? Picking the right tree. You know, if you're looking for a windbreak, you want some kind of evergreen tree that blocks those northerly winds in the winter, but it doesn't impede the summertime sun. So, you're talking about you want something that helps warm your site and and you know, but if you want shade, then you want to get that on the south and west sides of your site to help block that afternoon sun. How will that tree or plant affect the other plants? You know, you have to look at that. That's another thing that that's a challenge. So, we'll we'll approve a site plan, but the landscape contractor can't provide the plants that are unapproved plans. So they will make changes and the developer builder owner is like, "Okay, I'm I'm I'm all right with it. If the town doesn't keep an eye on that, then we could have stuff that's not appropriate." You know, we reviewed the plan to put the right stuff in the right place, but just because the way things are, you know, that contractor they hired, I can't get that plant because there's a lot of demand for plants. So they change and all of a sudden the work the town did to get the right tree in the right place or right plant just went out the door because you get what you inspect not what you expect. Um same thing with insect diseases. You know you can you can overplant an area. It gives you a lot of trouble with insect disease. A lot of times that's say well can I just plant more? You know I don't want to put a big tree there. Can I put five little trees there? Well it doesn't always help the the plant. So those are things that you have to look at that are are tough in the urban environment. So that's a few things. How do we get there? And I hit on some of these already, but I'll just review. Implement

ordinance changes that benefit trees. Um I will say right now, tree save is a touchy subject at the state level. Don't expect a lot of luck with tree save. They they will get it eventually. They've threw legislation out there to stop it. There's some cities that due to earlier approvals will have the ability to maintain tree safe. City of Charlotte will be able to. Town of Harrisburg will not. City of Concord will can have. So that's it's good if you can get it voluntarily, but some of the other ways as far as ordinance changes, for one, you don't allow trees in utility space. you require them to I I set aside this much feed for utilities tree goes over here doesn't get quite as much push back at the state level gives the tree a little more space you know and then that we're planting appropriate species that get large um giving the town the tools they need the budget if trees and urban forest is important it takes money and you've got to increase that funding and that aspect of it um communicate the importance to utility providers. They need to know, hey, it's just don't come in here and do what you want, you know, in the utility space cuz it's not always deed. Sometimes they do have hard right away. Not always. Sometimes they just put it in there and they claim it after it's there. Not a whole lot you can do, but they So, when they come to town, town needs to be speaking with them, catching them, catching those utility contractors upfront, say, "All right, what you going to do?" and working on that. Next one, establishing a canopy coverage baseline. Do you know what I mean by canopy coverage? What area of our town is covered with trees? There's relatively inexpensive ways town staff could do it or we can hire a consultant to do it. We need to find out

how much tree coverage we have now and set that baseline. Our town council needs to say what's acceptable. What will we stay above? What will we not go below? We need to set that now. We need to encourage that going forward because that's what we're going to need down the road so we could track how are we doing. You know, it's really tied into our open space requirements, our impervious calculations. That's one that kind of falls through. So, if they're allowed a lot of impervious, this is where industrial and commercial sites really get in a lot of trouble. They're allowed a lot of impervious, a lot of parking lot. It kind of shoots you in the foot for trying to save undisturbed space. And I want you to think about not only the undisturbed trees, but the undisturbed native soils. We're losing a lot of our good soil. You know, it's it's as important as the trees. Leaving that soil there, that top soil that helps erosion, helps water run off, leaving it there. All right. So, we need to do that. And uh oh, I already touched on soil disturbance minimum. So, that was my last bullet. I hit that one there. All right. So, that's just food for thought on the commercial side of it. But I mean the town side of it. All right. So they work at home, too. You've got your nice little house. You when you want to beautify it, I want to add some trees and landscape. You need to think about it. You know, the little plum tree looks great here, but now it's starting to get in the gutters. Maybe it should have moved it a little bit farther away from the house. Looked great when it was this tall. You know, how did And again, there's the bullets. How are the soil conditions? You know, compacted soil. You know, most of our state is clay. You need good airrated soil just like for your grass. It's the same thing for your trees. You know, exposure to sun and wind. What do you want? You want the wind blowing this way? You want shade when and where? And the function of that tree. You know, what do you want it to do? Is it just for aesthetics? Is it? And then space constraints of maturity. You got to think, you know, when you're out looking for people ask me all the

time, what tree should I buy? I said, "Well, go online, look at stuff that you like, find out if it's conducive to this area, then find out how big it will be when it's fully grown. Then go back to where you want to plant it. Will that work?" So, and then even at your home, you have utility hearts gate conflicts. And those those are with your laterals coming off the mainline coming to your house. Now, they're a lot shallower than the main, the water man, the sewer main, utility mains are deeper, but when it all comes to your house, it comes up shallow. So, it's only a couple foot below the ground. You can dig it up, damage it. Roots can get in there and and pinch stuff. Now, roots don't always get in the sewer lines. You know, you probably heard that a lot. Usually, when a root gets in a sewer line, it was poor construction or the mass of the tree in the root got large enough where it's pushing down on the joint to allow a crack. But again, proper thinking it through. Where's my sewer lateral? Let's not do anything big over that. Small shrubbery in that area. Proper planning. I'm going to hit a few slides on that in a few minutes. And then young tree maintenance. Trees in an urban environment grow differently than trees in the forest. In the forest, they all grow and they're relatively close and they're tall and skinny and they whip around in the wind and they're happy like that. The roots all grow together cuz roots do graft and they're one big happy family in the forest. We take a tree out, we stick it in an urban environment, it gets much larger than it's meant to be. Why was especially your big oaks and all. Then we wonder why they start falling apart because they just they need to be together and closer. So, let's hit some of those. All right. Container grown stock. The picture on the right, you don't want your tree looking like a steering wheel in the container. Junk in the ground, you get junk. Junk in, junk out. You know, that's that's a tree that's been in that container way too long. A lot of times, you know, at the nurseries, they'll take that little sprig and they'll transplant it and they'll move it in a bigger pot, a little bigger pot,

and then some of the day they just stop. And if you it doesn't get sold, you know, you get something like that. Now, that's the danger of going to the big box. Not throwing them under the bus cuz that's your most cost effective trees, but the landscape companies that do this for business, they get all the good stuff. They bid on these trees when they're still growing in the fields in the container and they know they got to work for towns and cities that are picky. They get the good stuff. The big box get the leftovers, the culls, if you will. So just be mindful of that when you go to the lows or the home improvement. Just there's good trees there. And if they're young, you can train them. But all right, so that's the way wider deeper. Remember that big picture of the roots on the tree. Don't think of a root ball. I mean, this is a root ball here, but as that tree develops, it's a root plate. It's still rel it's shallow. And why? It stays in the first three or four foot of soil because roots absorb oxygen and they need enough moisture. They need oxygen and they need the nutrients. Once you get down three or four deep, there's nothing down there. So, unless there's nutrients down there, they don't go deep when they're young and they'll have a little tap routt to support them. But once those lateral roots go out, that tap routt dies and it's a root plate. So, think about that as you plant stuff. Don't just make it just big enough to get the plastic pot in because basically again our clay soils, those trees are just even they'll even do it in the soil just like they did in the plastic pot. They'll just grow in a circle cuz the the medium that they used in the nursery that little malt pot and soil whatever they got in there is moisture and softer and easier to grow in. So the tree just keeps doing this instead of searching out and getting into the clay and trying to find more nutrients. Look at the trunk flare. Big problem in our industry for ball and bird. A big problem for the town. You wouldn't think it matters, but a tree trunk does not like to be below ground. The tree knows it's it's called a root flare. That

knows where it transitions from trunk trunk tissue to root tissue. You plant a tree too deep like that in a photograph, you will have issues with that tree down. It'll have poor health. And 75 to 80% of the poor health of trees in urban environments are because of trees that are planted too deep or came too deep because it came out of the nursery. Again, that tree was probably put in a liner as a little small sprig and grown in a greenhouse for a little while. Went out and got put in the ground. It got planted a little bit deeper each time it got put in that difference that larger pot. And by the time it gets in the ground, it's like this 5 6 in already too deep. So when you're buying your plants, look at that. When you're planting, you want that root flare where it starts flare just to be level with the soil adjacent soil. If anybody ever has questions, I'll be glad to come show you. Keep mulch away from the trees. I don't know if you've heard about volcano mulching. And again, that same thing, the trunk of the tree don't like to be buried in mulch. Mulch is not like leaf litter in the forest. They're not the same thing. Leaf litter is much more porous. oxygen permeates through it a whole lot better. You know, forest trees, they can live in a lot of leaves. They can't live in a lot of mulch. It's much denser and it gives a lot of issues. And watering, they need that water. It's if they're bald and burlap, you know, they they got most of their roots cut when they put it in that ball and burlap. It's in a container. It's been used to getting water every single day at the Lowe's or wherever. You know, it it's not lacking for water. You go put it in your yard and say, "Well, I'll water it once a week or two." That tree's like, "What happened?" Because they're addicted to the water because they've been used to getting it every day in my little pot and I can survive just like this. And you go, "Ah, you going to have to do without. They go in DTS and they start falling off the leaves." All right. Tree care after planting. Again, you got to water them. You want to mulch them. You want it thin. You

want it wide and not on the trunk. Helps keep moisture in there. You don't want no more than two, three inches of so mulch around your tree. Your root plate area is what you want. And that also helps putting a little mulch around a tree cuz one of the biggest killers of trees in an urban environment is lawnmowers and weed eaters. We repeatedly bounce them off of the trunk of the tree every or the you know you got old trees been in your yard a long time. You see all the exposed roots on the we run over them with a lawn mower. We knock the bark off them and all those airborne pathogens just start working out. you know, next week knock the bark off again. And the trees are tough. They hang on. You know, the top half of the root will all be decayed, but the bottom half still trying to live. So, mulch helps you stay away from that. Fertilizing trees need fertilizer just like grass. And any any fertilizer you're applying to your grass is going to help your tree, too, because the tree roots grow down and up. Your grass roots are good. They live in the same area. They're breathing the same oxygen, using the same nitrogen. And pruning, young tree training. I think next slide I got a little bit about that. Again, we're putting it in that urban environment. It's going to grow a lot more branches and it's so you need to kind of thin it out. Get the branches where they're not rubbing in each other. Allow movement of the tree. Those are some things. So, you want to space your branches and that'll help develop a strong trunk. You actually want your tree to move. You can put stakes guides around it, but you want that tree to move a little bit. It's called trunk tur. that trunk as it's growing, it's young, it feels that and it responds, "Oh, I need more growth on my trunk. I'm whipping it around too much." So, it'll grow in diameter. You tie that thing down tight and you hold it like that with your little guy wires and off for a year or two or three years and you cut it off. A lot of times your tree just says bloop the first thunderstorm because it never got to develop its

strength. So, things to think about with your young trees. That's all I got. There's my email, phone number. If you ever want to call me, I'll be glad to come take a look at your trees or situations. And all righty, that's all I got. Thank you. That was really good. I learned a lot. And I actually did have I had a question for you. Can or Yeah, I have a question for you as well. Yeah, I didn't I didn't check my time this week. You got time? Go ahead.

Going back to residential areas and trees and you mentioned the roots. I I'm really kind of thinking about the root situation and I know you touched on um in the sewers. You say usually it's the product of you said poor construction and I I missed the what was the second point and oh so if your tree is planted too close to your sewer lateral coming to your home as that tree matures it's the mass of the tree and the as the root system becomes large and the tree grows it it puts weight on that soil

so it starts pushing down on it and again if it's really close or it was you know they planted that young tree a foot or so whatever right on top of a joint of that sewer pipe, you can conceivably push a little pressure where it kind of bows at that joint. Now, if it's in the midsection of pipe, it may not really bother. It may bow a little bit because of the mass of the tree cuz, you know, it just grew for 15, 20 years, but if you do it near a joint, you have that problem. That's why your tree should be planted 10 to 15 foot off where your sewer ladle runs through your house, ideally. Okay? Those smaller roots there won't be as bad. They'll grow around it, but you're not having that entire mass of that tree sitting on top of.

Right. And is there ever a problem if you have a mature tree or and they're trying to build around trees that are already there? Like is that ever an issue with the utility system?

Yeah. Any anytime you're cutting roots is an issue? Um a good rule of thumb. So, and under optimum conditions, the diameter of your trunk, say your trunk, say your trunk is 10 inches in diameter. For every inch of diameter, you want to stay a foot away from the tree. Again, that's ideal. 6 in is is a good halfway compromise. So, for every inch of diameter, six inches of distance away from the tree. You can't always do that, but that's what you want to shoot for that way. What it is, you're you're getting into what's called a critical root zone. If you can stay out of that and the timing of when you do this when the tree is dormant, it's better to do it. But you can't always, you know, depends on if you got sewer issues. But yes, digging around your tree roots will impact the tree, you know, but you got to look at the whole circle of how much are you taking just a section? Are you taking 50% of the the root zone? you know, if you're not going a large area, it's not as critical. You can plan your work when you're doing your edging and bedding and

but yes, it will. Okay, that's Yeah, thank you. Because I was just wondering like as we move forward, what are some of the considerations? You know, what should we think about to your point when we're planting like what should we think about like once these trees start to mature? I mean, of course, like it won't be an issue once they're first planted, but you know, 20 years down the line and these roots are really deep and they really, you know, spread out like what are, you know, what are some of the things that we have to keep in mind once we're process that critical root zone based on a dam and it's a tough call. I mean, you've had your house, it's beautiful, you know, you've been living there 30 years and now your driveway is buckling, right?

You can't you can't continue that. Sometimes you just have to take a chance that the tree will survive and you got to do what you got to do. I mean, there are ways to redo sidewalk and protect your roots, but it becomes costly and not all the contractors that do concrete work around here are willing to do it because, you know, you you'd have to look. But you do the best you can. You can't especially when you your trees get really large. And that's, you know, some people have that mentality. Yeah. If I get 30, 40 years out of it, we'll start over again. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Hey, had a question.

Two questions actually. Sir, what can this board do for what you're talking about? And uh the second part of it is I I'll wait for the second question, but if you can help me answer the first part.

All right, let me answer the first one. So, as a board um especially when we get to the ordinance rewrite, we can make recommendations. As citizens, let us community, we encourage our friends, you know, we have to talk it up. We need to, you know, if it's important to you, you need to communicate it to your friends and family. It's important and that, you know, that's how town staff gets support because there's again, it's it's it's an opinion. There's people that don't like them. So, you you have to and if you don't like them, I guess you should do the same thing. You speak up. I happen to love them. So, speak up in favor of them. So, us as a board, that's, you know, we have to be champions for the trees. You know, we won't always have the ability to say no, yes, and no. We can re make recommendations and we certainly can make recommendations to town council when we see plans that don't go above and beyond and they may be compliant. Town staff can't deny it. They've met the requirements, but they still stink in regards to saving the tree. We can certainly as a board say we do not agree with this site plan even though it meets requirements it doesn't lend itself towards the direction this town wants to go now.

Right. And then you can either vote for that site plan or not based on that too. Like you don't have to even if it meets requirements doesn't mean you have to say yes to recommend it to town council. I think a good example too is we did this a couple months ago where we actually widened the sidewalk correct to accommodate I not I mean widen the strip of land strip because 4t is is not enough right to for your root zone. So that's where we can help with that is when we see that, oh no, that's not big enough for all those trees we're going to put in there.

Right. So, so they're exactly right. Is when the plan comes before the board for say a new subdivision and we're looking at a road crosssection and that was the situation and it was a very small in width landscape strip between the curb and the sidewalk where the street trees would go. And this board recognized that and asked that it be widened to a certain amount and the developer agreed and it went forth with that recommendation and condition of approval. Um, and the developer has the ability to say, "Well, no, I'm meeting the ordinance."

Mhm.

But you have the ability to ask vote on a recommendation to require something. Ultimately, it's a town council that makes the decision, but uh then the developer or the applicant has to go before the town council in a public meeting and say they don't want to meet the recommended larger space for the success and health of a future tree in a community and that's hard to do. So what we have done is based on some of the recommendations that come from our board is actually modified our regulations to be consistent with how we're conditioning projects. So we're continuing that's part of the role of the planning board is to to review the plans and make recommendations and uh so forth. Now, it doesn't go as far as what we call our DRC, the staff, but again, we're sometimes limited by what our ordinance says. We push as hard as we can, but look at the board as another layer, an opportunity to push a little harder.

Thank you. Uh the second part of my question was I see a lot of these uh trees being pruned while they are coming on the way to the power lines. U so how how does that get part of this whole thought process like uh is there an opportunity to think about how the power lines should be placed? Is there a recommendation that we could make to Harrisburg town? H help me educate on that.

Yes. So there is um normally utility companies if if it's the what's called primary distribution. So, anything below 23,000 volts, it's it's the backbone, the skeleton of what supplies your neighborhoods, right? Those distribution lines on wooden poles. They want at least 15t of clearance from their conductor, that wire at the top. Now, not not 15t from the pole. They want 15t up here. that we'll give them 15 foot of rideway, but the conductor sits on six foot crossarm. So, it's three and a half foot beyond that 15 foot. So, and also the problem is, you know, large trees have branches that are 40 foot long. And unfortunately, you know, when you plant large trees close to power lines, you're going to have what we call alphabet trees or, you know, they're going to shave the sides off them. It's not the end of the world. It looks unsightly. Ideally, if we can have trees planted 20 foot or so back, look at planting mediumsiz species trees where they don't have to trim them as hard, you know, and again, this is right tree, right place. Now once you come within that 15 foot you know from 15t edge to center line you can choose landscaping plants smaller species of trees but you got to be mindful that you just don't throw away all the large trees too because you know the small trees they're never going to get taller in that power line. You're not going to get a lot of benefit. You're not going to get the cooling and the oxygen replenishment that you know our environment needs. So you're not going to help those environmental factors by trading small trees for big trees adjacent utility corridors, but they're there, you know.

So, one thing is again asking that in our ordinance that shade trees be at least 20 foot away and and there's going to be places it's just not possible especially on our small commercial sites residential subdivisions and they got they have requirements where they have to provide a lot of road frontage landscaping anyway but it just hasn't really been looked into in the town in history. So you see a lot of power and even in Concord is the same way when I got there. It's just it's something that somebody needs to be making them aware of and working with the utility companies. You know there's a lot of opportunities to put lines underground a little more expensive but you know that allows you to bring the trees a little bit closer but then you got to think about the roots

but that's why you see them doing that because the tree branches the power the electricity tracks through those branches causes the shortage of power and and power goes out. So, and I think what a lot of times what we see too is homes and trees that have been there. Yeah. Prior to us, I mean, prior Yeah. prior to the utilities being there. So, moving forward, like Bill said, we can, you know, we can remedy that old trees, older homes and established trees.

They say the way So, I was talking about Caldwell Road and that's where they cut everything down Caldwell. All right. So come out there and start down Robinson Church where the new subdivision has started planting their trees. They went back a little bit farther, but those are still large trees and we wanted large trees and we got them. So there they will have to be trimmed someday. I will probably be dead and gone. You know, we all might get to ch. But now even now working with the utility providers once they realize that Harrisburg this is important to us that young tree training like I was telling you can do in your home say all right don't be reactive I'd like you to come and trim these things and do it properly now let's get these trees growing away from your power lines so you don't have to be so aggressive that's a hard sale utilities aren't going to want to do it but it's it's a political game. If the trees are important, you got to fight that fight. If they're not, Duke Power will do what they want. And and they may do what they want anyway, but you got to fight the fight for a while until they say, "Oh, it's probably easier just to get along."

Makes sense. Anything else? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good job, Bill. Good job, Bill. All right. that see if you can get that story map thing off. Okay, so uh good evening. I just wanted to give a couple of quick updates. Um first on the one Harrisburg planning our future together. Uh yeah, let's see. How do we get rid of this little tag thing?

It will. Okay, so just an update. Some of you are on the committee, so you may have gotten the the update uh on this strategic comprehensive uh land use plan. We're still in phase two. We're still having our public engagement. Uh the public survey is still active until Friday. So, I hope all of you have taken the the survey and we continue to have our public meeting. So, a little bit about the public engagement. This is not up to date. This is within uh I'd say about a week and a half ago. So online engagement, we've tracked our uh website and scanning for the QR codes of the website link. There's been 185 scans. The QR code for the survey, 235. Uh neighborhood meetings, again, as of about a week and a half ago, we've had 65 participants and interactions or inputs at just under 200. Survey completions, we have done great. 650 surveys and again that's not as of today. This was like a week and a half ago. Uh regarding the statistically valid portion we have received 125 by mail and 225 online. Uh at our open house there were a total of 55 participants and 368 inputs at that session. So today, what have the participants um how have they been describing Harrisburg? Uh I'm sure it's the same as you would describe it. I described as home friendly, familyfriendly, uh unique, growing, comfortable, a nice community, cozy, and welcoming. What has been identified as most concerning? Of course, traffic, the

larger the the word in the cloud, density, traffic, lot size, sidewalks, concerns about possibly apartment growth, uh congestion and development, what participants want more of.

I like that. Shopping in Costco is there. So, some people got really specific. TJ Maxx, I was surprised how people were naming TJ Maxx. Yes. sidewalks, museum, theaters, fine dining was a a large one. Uh art, bike paths, and uh making sure that our community is walkable. So, what's next? So, last night we were at Harrisburg Elementary School. Uh tomorrow morning we'll be at Rocky River Coffee. Thank you. Rocky River Coffee. Then our last community meeting is Thursday. We'll be at fire station 3. This Friday, again, the survey ends. If you have connections to your community, like an email blast, please email blast your community and just remind them that the survey ends. We've been trying to put it in our newsletter and push it out on social media as well. Uh the steering committee meeting will uh be January 15th. Uh they will receive a lot of the information from the survey, some of the preliminary work uh once it's been digested by a consultant presented to the steering committee. uh the consultant will start working with the information to create this uh growth framework and it will be presented back out in an open house on February 12th at the YMCA. So I hope uh you'll get a lot more information about it and I hope you are ambassadors for the plan and will help push this information out. So, that is all I have for the update on this strategic comprehensive plan. Uh, I wanted to quickly go over the

development map and answer any questions about any developments that you may have. And let's see. All right. So, I'm going to skip over some of these, but some I'll pop up. I'm going to talk about Farmington for a minute. So, Everbrook Academy, the daycare, it uh was under development last year, caught fire, burned down. It is now in framing stage again. So, everything's been cleaned up. It's going again. Uh so, we're excited about that. Uh the preserve at Lichfield, that is a proposed town home community that's been in process with the town for a couple of years now. they are moving forward with the special use permit and we anticipate it will probably come before um the board of adjustment I would say uh maybe the first of the year. So uh this this development was filed back under the old ordinance when based on its zoning you can propose a town home project by special use permit and that's why it's being carried out. It's not the case today, but it is the case when they filed their application. So, that is in process. Uh, Niblock Homes is in a sketch plan. It it too is next to Farmington. It's a proposed age restricted community, 243 uh, units and they too are under a sketch plan. This project will need to be annexed in a conditionally zoned project. So, it will come before the planning board and town council in the future. It's just at the very preliminary stage.

I'm sorry. Can you zoom in on that one? Yes. Oh, let's see. It's this one right here. So, here is Farmington. Um, this would share access through Stafford Road. This is the hospital,

Stafford Road. Uh they're proposing a traffic circle over here and it would share access to Lichfield. Uh Stafford Road will continue and serve this development. They uh again they are in sketch plan. They also have to do a traffic study. Uh so they have a little ways to go before uh it's ready to come forward. No secondary access proposed. Uh yes, absolutely. And again, we're in sketch plan, but yes, they will have access. There is a planned roundabout, Stafford Road. Roundabout go directly into Farmington near the new um Dario

that's under construction. That road would be connected as well as uh further north uh near the trioint. Uh it'd be about right here. Uh there's the trioint town homes and single family homes and this currently deadends and that would be connected as well. So we'll have three points of access and that's early uh sketch plan design but not connected to Lichfield or Yeah, they will share a road. Yes. So, uh, this is no the lit Brookdale Commons

Analise Drive that subdivision. Uh, so the only connection for Lichfield will connect to the neighboring community and Stafford Road. It has two points. This will connect to Stafford Road and two connections over into Farmington. And from that on the right from like like happiness uh it will not connect there. No, that goes through Lichfield. Happiness. I think that's Brookdale Commons. Right.

Right. I think it's more Brookdale. Okay. So it will not connect to Lichfield or Brookdale Commons.

Well, the road that's shared through is shared by both developments. So Stafford Road will come right up through here. So if somebody wanted to instead of coming out here could go this way, but more than likely they'll hit Farmington Ridge. So again, this this is an early stages. They're doing a traffic study. The information will come back for you. Atrium Hospital, uh they are two in a sketch plan. This will come before you in a conditional zoning. Uh and um we're in the very early stages of the sketch plan and traffic analysis as well. Then in Farmington, there's a couple of projects that are in construction plan review. This is Farmington Red Shops proposed three buildings. This uh green is uh just so you can identify the location. This is the Dario under construction. So it' be right across the street here. uh that is under construction plan review. Another building uh this is this red property. This is construction plans uh for this other commercial building uh which would be next to Famous Toaster which is currently under development which brings me to Famous Toaster. I don't know if you've been by there recently but they actually have the framework up and they're really starting to move on it. So we're really glad about that. It's it's been um under construction for some time. Dario, their goal is to be open mid December. So, they are really moving on that project. Then at the corner, we have the Chase Bank. It's currently fenced around there, but uh it is also under construction. They're doing site work right now.

So, right across the street, this is a Harris ter shopping sale. uh Harris ter shopping center and um on this this is the old Wells Fargo building that's been vacant for some time. Someone's looking at redeveloping the site to take down the drive-thru, the banking canopy there and use the old Wells Fargo as professional office and maybe do some type of fast food restaurant. Uh it too is under sketch plan. Then uh on plaza extension, this is a four lot subdivision that was approved by conditional zoning uh approval years ago. They are in construction plan review further on Rocky River Road across from uh the proposed hospital. There's an old approved commercial center that was going to be the original site of Venture Church and it had a few commercial buildings. Uh this there has been no movement on this, but it is an approved conditional zoning, so it runs with the land. So we make sure it's on here because it is a viable uh approval. Grantham uh Grandantham is in a southern uh part of our town. This had about uh I want to say six phases. The first portion has been developed out. There are still two more phases over here that included a bridge crossing uh to reach this other area here. It uh it is an approved conditional zoning. There has been no movement on it but it is an approved conditional zoning and there are still two more phases. So we keep it on the the map. Some of the projects under construction we have Eye Meadows 71 lots. Uh, Meadows is being developed by DRB Homes and they are

actively under construction. Uh, Peach Orchard subdivision. This is a administrative review for a proposed 143 lot subdivision. And this project actually straddles Peach Orchard Road. So, it's south, that's Eye Meadows. It's south of that. Um this would have to be annexed into the town and conditionally zoned and um they are working with us to possibly include a public park in this as well. So it's still very early sketch plan review um and it to I think I mentioned it have to be annexed and conditionally zoned Orchid Ridge. So, Orchid Ridge is a it's this whole blue area with this red. So, back in May of 2021, Orchid Ridge was approved by town council as a conditional zoning district that authorized the development of 459 homes. There's been no action on it. The original applicant that obtained the conditional zoning had gone away, but it is an approved conditional zoning. So, it sits out there dormant unless somebody comes in to reszone it or to do something with it. Uh, we do have uh someone that's looking at this northern portion of this and they're proposing uh I'll put pull it up here. I call it the Presley development. It's in red. uh they want to just take the northern portion of this and do a 99 lot subdivision. Uh some of these properties have been sold since the original conditional

zoning. So, you know, the likelihood of ever seeing that 459 develop as originally approved um isn't really feasible. So that's this uh the property owners up here still would like to do something with their property and they're talking to a developer. So this has been annexed into the town already with the original approval, but it will need to be conditionally zoned. So it will come before you in the future in the town council for a decision. Um tra this was one of the projects I think some of you uh helped in the uh decision on this. This is a 23 lot conditional zoning district. Uh they are currently in construction plan review and they are moving pretty quickly. McKinley is another project that I think many of you had a role in its review. Uh it was originally a 162 lot subdivision that was reduced down to a 60 lot subdivision. Uh they are currently under construction plan review and once the construction plans are approved they uh their approval their conditional zone included the donation of 89 acres to the town for uh public open space. Bloom estate. Some of you may have seen the sign. This is currently under construction. It takes access through uh the existing portion of Bloom. It's 30 lots and they're under construction. I think I saw the sign was like starting on a million dollars.

Uh this Rocky River Road subdivision now this was at the point where it was conditionally approved but they have withdrawn their application. So with all applications that have withdrawn or closed or finished, we leave it on here for 60 days. So if somebody's following it, they can read what happened to it before it's pulled off. So this project is uh going away and the and the files actually closed. Traymore 1's under construction. It's about 50% built out. It was approved for 42 lot subdivision that has interconnectivity between Traymore 1 and Traymore 2. Magnolia Corners. This is another project that was approved back in 2003 for a commercial center. Yes, 2003 commercial center and nothing has occurred here. Uh but since it is a conditional zoning, it is required to stay on the development map. And what's unique about this one is uh reviewing its conditions of approval. Uh they did not actually have a site plan when they got this approved. So one of the conditions of approval is it has to go back to the decision-making authority when they are ready to develop it to show the site plan and architecture. So uh it will come back before the planning board and the council not for the potential use that is vested but to look at the site plan layout and the architecture if it's to move forward. Well, haven't things ha has our UDO has changed. So, commercial center like ha have those those definitions have been changed since 2003. So, they're set from whatever our zoning commercial zoning was in 03 versus what it is today.

That's correct. That's correct. Now, we do have uh we we are very good when we're working with them to push the envelope and get is is there any Wait, is there movement? I'm I'm sorry. Is there movement? Like is some No, we get calls about this every once in a while. I know. I think about it all the time. I'd love a rose apothecary. We get We get calls all the time about different projects and it's just somebody looking at it here and there. So, we don't really know until we actually get an application in if it's a viable project because people call us all the time go, "Yeah, I'm interested in this."

Well, I wonder and I don't I've looked it up. I haven't found it like how much it's going for. Like, I wonder I mean, it seems like prime location. I still can't believe it's not been taken. Well, again, we get calls about this corner and other corners wherever there is an approved additional zoning. It's still however much the owner is selling, right? And so the owner, I believe, is the same owner of when it originally got approved. So they're definitely holding on to it. And um so it is a vested project. So if something's formally submitted, then we'll take a look at it. I saw that. Yeah. Yeah.

Bloom Corner, another conditionally zoned uh project, a diagonal from Magnolia Corner. It is uh mixed use. It includes 55 town homes and uh some commercial buildings along the frontage. Callaway is under construction. That's a age restricted 68 lot subdivision at Rocky River Road. And I believe that's Robinson Church. Yeah. Yes, it is. Yes. Is that connecting to Kensington?

No. Okay. Uh wait, no. I take that back. I think it is. Hold on a minute. I believe it's connected right here. Yeah, right there. Yes. Because that Oh, there I see. Oh my god, that's going to be brutal. The So, the access is on Robinson Church only, but there's a connection over here as well. So, a lot of people come out this way to get to the light. Does it have a Is it going to have a turning lane? Uh, they did do right in right out. It should. I don't want to say that off the top of my head, but there are some roadway improvements happening at that intersection. I just can't remember. I don't remember what.

Uh, but they are doing some improvements. Courtyards, Robinson Church, the Epcot development, uh, under construction. Those homes are moving very quickly. So, um, I got Next Sports. This is in constru. Uh, no, I take that back. So, they are wrapping up their sketch plan. Here's a picture of it up here. We're still working out some transportation um questions with NC do up in this area, but they're very close to wrapping up their sketch plan and moving towards construction documents. That's on Pepsi Lane. Uh this is a proposed office project on uh I think its address is really university city uh very skinny long they're looking at do doing some kind of professional office there it is in sketch plan uh the use would be allowed by right so after sketch plan it would go to construction documents uh we have a proposed industrial this is Caldwell Park road uh this is just past the PUB Coldwell Park just past it. But this property is actually part in Harrisburg, part in Meckllinmberg County. Um they are looking to do a office warehouse type development. It's in sketch plan review and they are also doing a traffic study.

Okay. So would it be big max going in there like 18 wheelers? I'm sorry. Would it be I mean 18 wheelers? We don't know. It's an office warehouse. There's a lot of different uses, but it will have roll up doors. So, that's one reason we're having them do a traffic stop. When we approved the height, is does this fall under? No, this is still the old uh Well, so industrial. So, wait a second. So, the pud is what you modified the height. Okay. This property is already zoned employment center. It already has the ability to go 72 ft high. Okay.

Uh the like an office warehouse type development does not go that tall.

So um Henderson Circle, this is already approved. It was just a simple uh lot line adjustment. Uh this property owner owned both. They wanted to modify this so they could sell one of the lots. So it's on there. It will be pulled off next month. uh Speedway Crossing. Uh this one is uh going to change. So there's an existing conditional zoning on this property. They were proposing uh to modify it. Uh more recently, uh we've had in an inquiry about um a daycare center there in lie of this commercial center. So, if that is to move forward, they will have to modify the conditional zoning and it will come before the uh the planning board and council for a decision, but they haven't formally applied yet. So, I've left this on there. Uh we have an approved project with no movement whatsoever. Conditional zoning for 15 lot uh town home project. Um again, no movement. It was approved back in 2019. Um there is no movement on this project. I do check in with them. So they went through construction documents. They are ready to approve, but they just have not move forward. So every couple of months I reach out to them just to make sure it's a viable project, but this was supposed to be the new location for Hawthorne Pizza. Uh Panda Express, it is uh construction plan reviews. They're ready to issue. We're just waiting for them to wrap up little details to move forward. This is the public shopping center, Harris Square. This would be right next to Veterans Park.

The Berg Church, it is looking to do a nice expansion and annexation. Uh this will have to also be uh have a conditional zoning uh change to allow for the uh enlargement of their facility. So that uh is in the very early stages as well. Camila Gardens almost wrapped up. I believe they have a couple of more houses. All the permits have been issued, I believe, and now we're just waiting for them to wrap up construction in the community. Sam's Express, another project that we've gone through the conditional zone, excuse me, we've gone through the construction documents. They're ready to release. Uh we're just waiting for them to get back to us to have the preconstruction meeting um and uh start construction. So, that was a use allowed by right. What's nice about this project is that they're um it's not just the car wash facility, but they're redesigning the whole site and upgrading it with landscaping and lighting and so forth. So, it'll be an improvement to the entire site, includes the gas station there. Harmony continues to build out uh under construction. Shamrock. There has been no movement on this for almost a year. So, we'll be closing out the the file on this one. So, all that means is doesn't mean they can't come back.

It just means that there has been no movement in progress

uh with this. And uh they did have a community meeting. they were they had their annexation documents and conditional zoning uh underway and then just stopped the project. Uh this project is uh almost 90% built out. So I'd say um they're moving pretty quickly on this. So maybe another few months and they should be built out. Foils, this is a project that will come before you. Uh this is an existing site. they need to to update the they need to change the zoning on it in order to allow for outdoor storage uh for their operations. And so we are working through wrapping up the sketch plan. That's why it's in um the sketch plan administrative phase. Then we'll go to the um conditional zoning. So, I would say the beginning of the year, this will come before the planning board and council uh as a conditional zoning. Uh we have an active code enforcement case on this property. Uh but it we're waiting for them to wrap up their construction plans. Um there we go. Construction plans and close that out. We just wrapped up the resoning for Pit Road. uh this board was part of that action. It's been complete and that is it. So that's a complete update

of all the active projects and inactive projects uh in the town. So I'll be glad to Can you hit the escape? Thank you. Answer any questions if you happen to have any? I just want to say I love this map. Good. We work hard to keep it updated. We again we try to keep a a going there um with the um Morehead and 29 on the opposite. Yeah, because that's not even

No, you have to close a project. There was it was inactive and the files been closed and if anybody wants to do something on that project, they have to start from scratch. Okay. Thank you, Shelley. Okay. Thank you. All right. So that about wraps it up, doesn't it? Do the minutes. Oh, you got to go to the consent agenda. Thank you for that. You're welcome. So, we have minutes from the October 21st meeting. And we need a motion to approve those minutes. Do we have a motion? Motion to approve. Second. I'll second. All in favor? I.

Okay. Anything else I missed? To no public comment. Nobody online. Okay. So, one thing I would like to do before we leave, I would like to take a moment to offer our thanks to Mike Clevenin for his years of service on the town board and as the planning and zoning board liaison since 2023. I don't believe you missed a meeting. Unless you did, there was something going on that you had to be there, but you were just about every single one. So, we thank you for that. Um, would you like to say anything? Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. DON'T MAKE

Keep coming around. You're still a citizen. I'm getting new chairs out here. That's better chairs. You're grandfathered in. You get to get a good chair. Come grab them. All right. So, with that, we can adjourn this meeting. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Second. I will second it. All in favor? I thank you