Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

My son don't want to call. Good evening. I would like to call to order the Harrisburg Town Council planning and zoning board meeting for August 19th, 2025. have all our members here now and sworn in so that um all persons wish to address to the board would need to be here in person. I do not see anybody here today. So we can go to item B agenda adoption. Do I have a motion to the agenda as presented? Motion to adopt. Second. Second. All in favor say I.

Oppos? Nay. Okay, I've got that out of the way. Special presentations are none. None today. Public comment. Do we have anyone online wishing to speak at this time? Nobody here. Okay, we're on that consent agenda. Did everybody get a chance to look at the uh consent agenda? See any mistakes or questions from last month? Uh do we have a motion to adopt the consent agenda as presented? Motion to adopt. Second. Second. In favor say I. I.

I. Opposed. Nay. Okay, that carries. Old business, we have none on the agenda. New business, we have none on the agenda, but we do have some staff updates. And for the first one, we have the Harrisburg strategic comprehensive plan update presented by Mr. Zach. Good evening. It's great to see a full board up there. Um, y'all are uh looking very uh very good tonight. So, we're gonna talk a little bit about the comp plan. Um, I am I'm not going to be long because I did have a conversation with Councilman Devon and he urged me to be brief. So, um,

thank you.

I will obey my elected officials. Okay. So, um, let's talk about the plan just for a few minutes. So what is the plan? What's the process we're going to go through? What's the timeline? And what is your role most importantly? So what's a strategic comprehensive plan? So comprehensive plan essentially is a policy statement to guide growth, development, and conservation. Um, so it's not only about growth and development, but it's also conserving uh those parts of the community that uh should be conserved, whether they're natural or historic. Um, that that's an important part of the plan. Um, the comp plan really serves as the foundation for all the other regulatory documents, uh, primarily the UDO. Um so once the comp plan is done and it lays out a vision uh for development residential non-residential induct whatever it is uh that will be um rolled into the UDO which we're also doing some work on uh so they work in tandem and um when uh when the when the two of them are um are synced together it is it is a a better situation. um than when they're sort of separated. And uh we have a plan that's seven years old. Uh 2018 is the hall Harrisburg area land use plan. Uh it's time to update it and then we're going to add a few things to it. So looking at the plan uh phases the uh the first phase is really what we're in now which is uh background information documents uh analysis assessment all the

all the records all the the data is being crunched and and our consultants have been in town and uh we had our first steering committee uh meeting u and um so really uh we're just wrapping up the uh public engagement plan which is how are we going to attack the and I'll talk about that in just a minute. How are we going to go out and uh and make sure that we get the input of the community um and then we'll move into um the goal formation. So the first part really is going to be not only gathering data but also gathering input. So it's sort of an inside outside um uh operation and once we gather all that together uh we will have the ingredients to start preparing the plan. So begin with uh vision and goals and those will come out again of the uh the public um uh input. Uh there's also a survey that will be going out uh electronic as well as you can fill it out hand u oldfashioned uh be mailed and uh so we're uh we're going to we're going to have that rolled out um I think towards the uh end of October um and uh that will that will also give us another um you know touch point for for input and then we move into um the um implementation strategy which is really um ultimately what we what we want uh which is to take the vision and make it become reality. Um and part of that is u incorporating the policies into uh regulations in the UDO but the other part of it is there's actual uh capital projects we can do uh there's things

that the town can do and uh what what I found in my career is that when the town uh takes the initiative it can really make a difference and every community around here uh that you look at and say Well, that's nice. Well, it's nice because uh somebody came up with a plan and then they worked the plan. And so there will be um a a concerted effort to really come up with an implementation strategy that gets us where we want uh to go. And so it's going from input to vision to goals to strategies. And um obviously uh we're going to we're going to get that uh wrapped up um and then get into the adoption uh phase uh for the uh for the entire plan. So um everything is set. Um we are uh we're getting um uh just rolling but uh things are things are going well. Um so here's the timeline. You can kind of look at that a little bit, but essentially uh the plan is to wrap up by next July. So the fall really will be uh you know into August, September, October, uh public input and then we'll begin to develop a framework for the plan uh goals, objectives, vision, and then start to take each of the sections of the plan. And I think I mentioned before there really um we're looking at three key elements in this plan. Uh foundation, one is housing, uh the the other is economic development and the third is mobility. Uh which is uh another word for transportation. Uh but it is those three things that will be the the uh the foundation for everything we do. Uh but we're going to have uh chapters and sections that deal with economic development, park and

recreation, conservation, um of course housing and land use. Um so we're going to cover the whole whole range of uh of development and and conservation. And uh so it it will be u truly a comprehensive uh plan. and it will cover uh just about everything and anything uh that you all uh will ever review or be involved in. And now you will have this comprehensive plan to refer to. It will be uh it will be your guide. Um, one thing I will say is that um because of the uh upcoming 250th anniversary of the uh the United States, uh we're actually going to push the adoption out to probably September, October, and may even get into November. But the point is we want to wrap it up by summertime. But there's going to just be so much effort going into that July 4th and then of course you know you hit the summer and and people are are kind of checked out. So um but we'll we'll start to you know use it. Um but the the formal adoption will will probably uh need to wait a little bit and um you know but we're going to keep moving along. We're not going to uh stop on that. So what's the role of planning zoning board? Talked about this a little bit. um you are the ones who deal mostly with development in terms of uh citizens in the community other than the town council. You're the ones that hear it first. Um so we need insight, perspective, uh opinions. Uh opinions are not bad things. We need opinions um about the future of Harrisburg. So all of that is uh is going to be uh important for uh for you all. And u although we're going to have touch points where we'll uh

we'll be reviewing things at any point uh if you come up with a great idea 2 in the morning you can't sleep u you can email Carla she she'll be she'll be glad to to to look at that. Um but you know it will be um a an ongoing process. So seriously anytime you you want to talk about something or you want to input then please do uh feel free to contact us um participate in public engagement. So there's really been um an effort or there is an effort to make sure the public is involved and this is about as involved a comp plan as I've ever been a part of. So we're going to have uh what we're calling popup events. So we're going to pop up at the rock and the bird. We're going to pop up at the uh trick or treat, right? And get some candy, steal candy from the kids. Um and uh we're also going out um and going to be uh inviting HOAs uh to come in. We're going to have some regional meetings. So, you know, different areas. Most HOAs meet what once a year. So, we're going to, you know, maybe do the norththeast quadrant and then do the southwest. We're going to put something together, but we'll uh we'll give everybody an opportunity. We want to invite, we want to go out instead of, you know, having everybody come in. Uh, of course, the survey is going to be um a really good way uh to uh to make sure that we're validating uh what we're hearing. Um, one of the things that that I think you'll find as we go through the process is you begin to hear the same thing over and over again. uh because people in a community move here because of a certain you know what whatever it is that they want uh to uh you know want to see in their community. So it does um you know you start to see those things showing up

over and over again. Um ambassadors for the plan. So uh we we will uh we will depise you as ambassadors uh to uh promote uh the plan and the vision of the plan and um that it will be the operative uh reference point for the next probably seven to 10 years and it's going to set the framework for a long time. um review of the draft plan framework and I know Bill can't wait to get his hand on that because he is going to stay up um and and and read that through word by word. Um no, we we we need that. Um we need uh everybody looking at it. Everybody has a different uh perspective. Um and there are some people that are really focused on housing, others on economic development. So the more people involved the better uh the process will be and then ultimately you all will provide the final recommendation to the town council. So um and that's by by statute uh the the town board uh town council cannot adopt a long range plan a comprehensive plan without your recommendation. So you are the gatekeepers until you open the gate and then it can you know move ahead. So, it's an important role and we um uh we are excited uh about getting going on it. Um any questions? I'm going to we're going to do a little development map update, but um generally any questions. I will tell you that the next big event is going to be um the Yes.

Yeah. Right. We're going to get out into the Yeah, I think Rock and the Birds are the first one to get out and start you know getting some input. Working on the survey now and that will be um you know going out also in October but October is going to be a busy because Yeah. Yes. Uh will we have an opportunity to preview the survey before it goes out to the community? Great question. Um you will have an opportunity to see it before it goes out. How about that? Are we able to weigh in on it before or like politically correct? So, let me talk a little bit about survey.

Okay.

So, the survey is being uh being managed by the same firm that did the park and rec plan. Uh and they are doing what is and some of you may be familiar with what a statistically valid survey is. uh you know there's a protocol uh has to be random u you know there's correction for different um if you have skewed one way or the other and so there's there's some science to it um and our consultants uh who have you know worked on on a number of these plans are going to put together uh some questions uh we're going to see them first meaning the staff is going to see them first and then they're going going to go to the um survey people and make sure that they're not um leading questions. You know, you can ask a leading question. And so their their idea is to uh to to make sure that everything is is just a a straight question. So answer is um the process the the making of the sausage uh is not going to involve the the planning and zoning board directly but you'll get a sneak peek before it goes out.

Okay.

Um but we um and I've done these surveys before um and you know it it really is important and I expect that we're going to get a a great response. When I was in um when I was in Huntersville, we sent out I'm trying to remember how many we sent out. We got 1,200 back in the mail and it was it probably a 25% response rate which is like off the charts. Uh if you get they're telling us that if we get 375 then we will have hit our mark in terms of statistical u you know conform conformance with with a uh a statistically valid survey. So u that that's really how um it's going to go. They're going to tabulate it um and then we will have uh that raw material and ultimately I mean it'll be part of the plan. We're going to you know that's going to be a feedback u and and so you all will have the results of that and that will inform the framework of the plan. Um the plan is not written in a back room. Um it's not written based on what we think but it's really based on the input that we get uh from the community which includes um the town council but we mix all that together and there's a consensus and that's what will be ultimately uh the plan. Yeah.

So kind of piggybacking off on trees um does town council have any input or say into what is being asked in the survey? Great question. So, uh, we have a steering committee. Um, and the steering committee is going to be, uh, involved in, uh, the the, uh, the process. So, they're probably going to be, uh, the ones that be able to see it. Uh, but again, the process is we are trying to make sure that we cover all the bases. And, um, so, you know, to what extent, I'm not sure. Okay. And then um so they're being mailed out to every resident in the town of

Harrisburg. So uh it's going to be twofold. It'll be electronic. So we'll have some on that you can do online, others we're going to mail. Um and what what the um what the survey company is going to do is as we start getting those results in and um you know uh the their role is to make sure that the survey results are reflective of the of the community. So that means we don't want to hear from one group or one demographic or one age. uh we got to make sure that we're covering it. Um and and really that's based on on the census. And so, you know, we have a certain uh age um you know, breakdown uh by five-year uh cohorts. We have a you know, certain um ethnic breakdown. We have a certain uh male, female, youth, all. And so, we want to make sure that we're getting um a good cross-section. Speaking of youth, we um we're going to do a presentation to the youth council. Uh so they're gonna you know have an opportunity to do the survey also. Uh we want to hear from uh from them. Anybody can take the survey. Uh and it's going to be um uh probably 20 questions. It won't take

in the past there has been um a lack of participation and decisions have been made with that lack of participation. So, as I've said in previous meetings, my biggest concern is to try to get as many residents involved as possible and get their input. So, um just want to make sure that happens.

This is going to be, you know, as I said, this is a very, very thorough public engagement process. Uh there'll be two public meetings um probably at the Y. So, there's one September 28th. That'll be the first one. Um and then in the spring February there'll be a second and in between there'll be a lot and so we'll have a website we'll post information we'll post um uh framework we'll post other um you know documents that are part of the plan preparation. So people have plenty of chance to weigh in on the plan. Um and uh so there's there's going to be a lot of opportunity to do that. Have faith.

Yeah. In the past, some of our surveys have been one per household, but you're talking about like having youth fill out, you know, some surveys and so on. So is this going to be one per household and because if my teenager fills it out, um honestly, the most important thing uh is to make sure we get the cross-section that reflects a community. Um, so if you have several people in one home, um, that just goes into the mix. You know, you might have one neighborhood more participation. Uh, but as long as in the end we get the the cross-section of what the community is. Uh, we don't want all one. We don't want, you know, to as long as we get that. Um, and I and I think we're going to have a a a huge um, we're probably going to have over 1,200. just make a guess there because uh you know it's going to be online. It' be very easy to fill out um and and the the survey will be available hard copy uh library you know other places that people um you know are are going to and so I I don't think that we're going to sell by 375. I think that'll be

well I mean okay I hope so. Really? Is it going to be on the website because not everyone's on Facebook?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's where it'll be. That's where it'll be. It'll be on the website. Um and um you know, again, uh when and this was my experience both in Huntersville and Canapapolis. And just remembering Huntersville, you get 1,200 survey responses covering all of the the different areas of the comp plan, you have a really good idea where the community is at. um if you're covering all the demographics, you're covering all the the sections, um you you you have a really good idea and in the end when the plan is finished, you look back and you look at the survey results and uh they'll line up pretty closely. Uh they're not going to be uh you know, completely completely different. And again that that's why I like um you having uh a lot of participation because uh the more you get more validation this democracy the more people you have involved the more you know okay this really was a decision this wasn't 20 people this was 5,000 people so that's a good thing

I have I have an idea just to just to get it out there because not everybody's on Facebook not everybody goes to the website but you could put a little blur blurb on the water bill. Everybody's going to get that. Yeah, we talked about that before. That's a good idea. And and it's already going out, so you're not spending more money on getting the word out. You're just putting a blurb on the water bill or link. Yeah. So, we have a communication strategy put in place. That's part of it. Okay.

Um it's going to include that. It's going to include obviously we're going to touch all the social media website. Uh we'll do other um and we got a a great communications director. Uh she's awesome. Uh she will get the word out. Um there so so yeah and that's that's one of about the water bill and uh the uh so the coverage will should be you know pretty pretty good. Great. What percentage are you looking to capture? Like what's your ideal percentage of the population to take the survey? Um sounds like 5% at this point of time. What you're saying given

numbers again they've told us 375 representative cross-section would be enough for a statistically valid survey. Now before you shake your head on that Jessica presidential elections what what do you see? 500 people were surveyed and this is it. You don't need a whole lot of people if you have a good process. Right. Right. Right. Um so um you know and this is where

this is where their value comes in. um they are able to to look at the different cohorts and they know what we and if we have one uh over um over here that's more over represented um then they're going to have to u adjust that. They're going to have to correct that. Um and how they do that is why we're paying them a lot of money. Um so in the end we will get and I think the the the park and wreck plan was a was a really good um illustration of that. Um that plan had a lot of input and um you know the the uh in you know the part of that plan that was most I think helpful and useful was essentially ranking um in order of priority the recreation and and and park needs for the community. So one to, you know, one to 20. Um and so we knew number one was Greenways. That was, you know, clearly. Um and then, you know, went down the line. Of course, pickle ball was up there, too. Um and uh we're we're we're working on a pickle ball court right now. So um you know, it it's going to we're going to hear a lot. Um, and uh, I think at the end of uh, end of the process, everybody will feel pretty good about it. Again, I I think we're going to get easily over a thousand. I don't I don't think it's going to be.

Well, let's hope so. Um, so one couple things I want to add. Um, one of the longest talking points of the first steering committee was effectiveness of surveys. So, it's already driven home to the representatives that we want effective surveying. So there any means possible was discussed. I also want to encourage all of us. I mean we all have resources. You know we're part of this board. I mean the uniqueness of this ability to shape the footprint of this town going forward should be communicated to everyone we know and they need to get involved and you know that's our charge too and our own part. You know we need to get out there and make it known. It's only effective. You know all all great communities become great because the citizens get involved. you know, so we have to encourage that involvement although we can

and at the open house just as you know another example and some of you may have been involved in in in these kind of planning uh projects but um you know we'll have a bunch of boards up covering the different topics. We'll have information. Uh people be able to go up and you know put little pins on on things and write things on the board and uh we'll be able to you know take that uh just like we do with the steering committee. We got a lot of good information. Um, and um, I I was telling one of our our consultants, I said, uh, I'm going to I'm going to just, um, guess that what you see on this board will pretty much be what we're going to see throughout the process. Uh, the things that we heard steering committee, we're going to hear over and over and over again. Uh but that's the importance of having a bunch of different ways to get people uh to weigh in whether it's a survey, whether it's in person, uh whether you know they come to a meeting, whatever it might be. So we're uh we're just at the beginning, but uh the ball is is rolling. So that's a that's good.

Thank you for that. Any other last questions? No, just a comment. Pickle ball is going to probably be one of your big things. I've been hearing that a while. Yeah, pickle ball is is taking over. It's the kudu of court uh sports, right? It's taking over the tennis courts. It's a noise ordinance issue now.

Growing and growing and growing. Um but uh yeah, pickle ball is definitely a popular thing. So, you have a treat tonight. Uh the treat is that Carly is going to be helping me to uh show you the development map. Some of you may have seen it. um we have re uh made it, we've re um uh designed it and we just want to go through it and kind of give you an overview uh of how it works and and what uh what goes into it and how we're going to keep things up. Um so the the goal really uh of this development map was to make sure it was interactive so you could use it very easily, userfriendly, um transparent. We have all the information on there. We're not hiding anything. We have the plans. We have the approved plans. We have the construction plans. Um and all the anything related to development. So um it will be uh updated on a regular basis. So um weekly uh that means and um you know when when we have a new project uh it will go on that development map and uh it will roll out um and it will be updated in in real time. So the foundation of the of the plan um is what we what we've done is categorized all development into one of these six categories. Now there may be a project that goes through one or more of these. There may be a project that just goes through one and then is is completed. um administrative um that would be something uh that is allowed by the ordinance and that you all don't see and the council doesn't see. Staff processes it at at at the staff level uh based on the ordinance and so that's an administrative type of development. Planning board, board of

adjustment, obviously those are going to be uh things that you would review. So, uh, resonings, um, and and other, you know, similar, uh, plans and and and whether whether it's a a development project or even, you know, some sort of a special plan. Um, town council ultimately they're going to make the decision on um a development uh plan. Um the approved plan um that so I if it is blue it will be you know that that plan's been approved. If it's green it means it's under construction and if it's completed I'm not sure what that color is supposed to be gray black

I'm not sure what it it it it's something um all right so

we got a couple still shots and then we're going to do a live uh live little demo but here you can see red. So the red are administrative u they're at the administrative level and so th though that means that we're reviewing it and I think I've told uh told you this before you ever see a plan it's gone through probably six months of pre review. Um, and the the reason behind that is that when we bring something to you, we want to make sure it's well vetted, uh, meets the code, meets the ordinance, and, uh, you know, can be, uh, uh, is in an approvable state, put it that way. Um, so you see red, you see green. Um, and we'll we'll take you to the the live website in just a minute. Uh but uh green, you see blue, which again those are approved and um I think there's probably some off the screen that are uh are completed. Um so when you pull it up, you're going to see that map and you're going to see these project tiles on the side. Um you can click on one of these one of these tiles and pull up whether it's a plan or an image. Um, so for example, uh, this is a rendering of one of the retail shops down in Farmington. Hasn't been built yet, but you can see what it will look like. Um, and you can see what the layout will be for um, EI Meadows, which is right here. Um, and you can see what Cookout will look at look like before Cookout is cooking, right? You can see what the um, the new um, car wash will look like before uh it is washing cars. And so you'll be able to follow the project and go through the whole um you know the whole process and and and really get a a

good a good idea what's going on. So I Meadows I mentioned uh it's green which means it's under construction. So if you if you click on Meadows what you're going to see is this screen on the left. Um what you're seeing now is a um approved um conditional resoning plan. So that's the plan that was approved by the town council. Um you could click on the approved preliminary plat or the approved construction plans. And construction plans for those who really want to get into the nitty-gritty uh will will show you everything from you know sewer manhole inverts and and uh drainage and and grading etc etc. the trees um and sidewalks and and all that. So, you can you can really get down into the the nitty-gritty. Um there'll be different. So, this is a residential project. If we have a commercial project that will have, you know, some some different information. We're going to show you in just a minute what we uh uh what we have for that. But let's let's pull it up. U this is the u website which is live now. So, if you go to the website, you see there's a development map. You hover over that, you click on that,

and that will bring up the development map. And so, this is what you'll see. And then this is the full map. Again, you see Carly's hovering over that. You can zoom in and and find your neighborhood, find out what's going on next door, uh, or in the future. Um, and you can also, um, click over on the on the left. And so here, Chameleia Gardens, uh, residential subdivision off of Stalin's Road. Uh, and you can see there's quite a few, uh, plans right down to the construction, uh, plans. And so you can see, uh, that, and then there'll be a little blurb, 157 single family units on 40 acres. Uh, community is 96% built out. Um, and, uh, you'll see that for every every development. uh you can click on a specific plan, pull that up. You can download it um and uh again be able to to look at it and and see uh really what is uh is going going on and and you can follow this really from the administrative stage all the way through. So you don't have to come to a meeting. You could pull it up and say, "Oh, they're they're pre-reviewing this and oh, now it's at the planning board and they're looking at the resoning plan and now it's at the town council. Town council's approved it and goes to the staff and now we're going to approve construction documents." So, we get into into that and you can see that and we there are some that we'll have renderings for. Um, there's some you want to go to get the Just pointing this out. It does open another window. So, you will always want to close that out. It'll keep piling them up if you don't. And if you want to get out of the circle when you're in, you have to always shoot that down the bottom.

Let's go over to cookout. Do they plan on getting the tiles in alphabetical order? Can it be done? I was trying. I don't know. Yeah, it you kind of got to hunt and peck on them tiles. Yeah. and you know so so that I will say that this is going to be a constant evolution so we'll keep improving it um so cookout and you see it's that color whatever that color is

um and there's the description the approved construction plans let's go to the approved architectural plans so this is what was built this is what was approved approved. Um, and what's on the ground. So, just stop right there. So, that's that little that opening on the left. That's where you drive under the window. That's that's that um and you can see all the uh the color. So, right down to the the brick um and the uh material uh used the landscaping. Uh it's all uh it's all going to be in in these planned m for a commercial project. We're usually going to have a cross-section or we're going to have a uh an elevation view. U but honestly on a lot of our residential we're also getting elevations because conditional zoning are um you know it is customized and so we want to um make sure that what is being built is what was uh what was approved. Uh, let's pull up Panda because everybody be really excited about Panda.

Or you can go to it on the map. Either way, thank you. So, you see that's in the red. That's in the red. Uh, zoom out just a little bit. You can see the uh Veterans Park just to the north and that's Publix and Harris Square right there.

Um, we have been reviewing this for quite some time. Um uh it it's been it's gone through a lot of uh uh iterations, but uh we're comfortable with it now. You can see the rendering. Uh we were trying to make sure that it was not um a uh a sore thumb in this. And so if some of you have seen their new model, um it has a nice little swoop root, kind of a pigota, which is great. uh but it doesn't really fit in this context. So we've been working on that and uh again why don't you pull up the architectural just for u so you know we're we're we've gone through this and uh we feel this will be uh will fit in nicely uh with the rest rest of the shopping uh center and that's how we're going to look at all the projects and um so anyway this is a good example of that. Um you want to go back to the main Um, do we have any administrative uh light industrial or uh

only thing we have is foils, but that's really not.

Yeah, we we we have several um uh projects that are um in the formative stages. uh already mentioned the hospital uh which is going to be a a a large uh project. Um there's uh there's also um a expansion of Puit across the street here uh which is working its way forward. Um that'll be 59 beds. It'll be on the uh south side. So it's going to kind of mirror what's on the on the north side. Um and um the uh there was one other medical.

No, that was the two medical ones. Yeah. Um so so we are going through the process right now. Again, there's a lot of front uh front end work uh before we hit the Harrisburg Village. That's a good So you know that'll that'll show you um that's the main question we get. being what's being a lot.

Now, another um table that we sync up with this is the development um it's sort of a snapshot. So, it's a uh it's a spreadsheet essentially of all the development residential uh how many lots were approved, how many have been built, how many are left. And so, you can get a really quick uh yeah, you can get a really quick idea of what's coming. Um and you know, as we look at that and we say, well, there's still 800 homes that have been entitled, which means approved for development that they could come in and pull permits. Um now the the sewer availability is is the the constraint at this point that we're trying to be uh very careful uh with uh because we we want to make sure that we we have enough until we get another uh yeah so here's the one

black zoom zoom in on that at all but uh so this essentially will show you and I believe the dark ones are are built out are Those the ones are still in. No, we took the bill off.

Okay, you took the bill out. Um, so Chamilleia Gardens up top, you can see it was approved 2020. 157 homes, 151 have been permitted, six left to uh permit. U again, almost almost fully complete. Um, and we, you know, you can go through this with every project. So, uh, and if you looked at the the bottom line, um, remaining to permit, we have a thousand, uh, homes. Uh, so that's a lot of homes. Um, we've been averaging over the last five years probably between 250 and 300 homes every year. We had a little spike a few years ago, but that is between 700 and a,000 people every year coming into town. That's a lot of people. Um and you know that's was really you one of the uh driving uh you I mentioned one of the three drivers for the plan uh is growth uh numerical growth and how you know that's going to affect everything because you got to scale up uh but you also have to uh plan for uh that uh that increase.

Can I can I ask I was going to wait till the end of the meeting before we're joined but this might be a good place to segue into it. Can we get some numbers like perceive this coming month people are I don't know what the process is what do you call in concord we call it a co I mean see we call it a cocate of compliance same thing yeah so do you can you get this board those numbers looks like these places are going to get cos this coming month you know something like that I would like to get a little stats get a little more feel of what's about to be approved in town

yeah the the the The way we do it is um when we get to the construction document phase, um once that's approved and we've had our pre uh construction meeting, they are ready to roll. Now, how they pull the permits uh is up to them. Um but and I think with um with that will be readily available. So, we're we're working on trying to get the the back end of that done. So, you'd be able to pull up um I'd have to create an account at a cell and go up there and search it and pull it out my own.

Yeah. That we're so that we're issued um and uh but yeah, I I think I mean there's a there's a way to it'd be nice to get them a monthly update. You know, it's because we you know, we don't we don't see the buy right stuff. We don't know what's going on. All we know is what comes before the board for, you know, conditional approval. But there's a lot of stuff going on and we just don't know. It's over our heads and I feel, you know, we ought to be a little more in the loop about Yeah. I get asked a lot of questions. I was like, "Oh, I don't know. Doesn't come didn't come. Let us let us um discuss it. See what we can do to, you know, get more information." Um,

so question on that spreadsheet you had earlier. I noticed because I've cross referenced this several times already. There are several on this list that aren't on the other list. What what makes them happen to pop over on the other list? So, like for example, Blackwater Road is not on there. I want to don't know what's going on Blackwater Road and I couldn't even find it. Yeah. Black Welder Road was a a plan that came through uh was approved by the board and then it stalled. It fizzled out. It's gone away. it it's stalled and so it really at this point is is not uh moving ahead. Okay. Uh but somebody could come in pick that up and and run with it.

That's what I was wondering because it's blue. Well, it's a different blue. This means nothing on this list. Okay. So, you know it it but it's been reszoned and it's been approved. It's been reszoned and approved. So there the right developer comes in, they can pick it back up without coming without coming to us. Yeah, because it's already Yeah, the owner still had the land. They just haven't sold it. Try to look to see nothing. You're right. So just in time. So we could buy it if we wanted on Black Welder. We do. I'd like to know that.

That's one of the 5,000 meetings I have next week. Um so yeah there another one is uh Orchard Ridge. Orchard Ridge. Yeah. Uh it was approved for 549. It's a big one. That that is not moving ahead. Um matter of fact, we've got someone who's interested in taking a piece of it uh in in developing that. So was another piece sold too? Hasn't another part of that been sold? Yeah. So, so it's it, you know, um the market changes um and and things happen.

This just shows what zoning has approved. It doesn't show anything else above that. That's what this list right here. But it's a buy right development now. I mean, they can come in. Well, by means that they didn't come in before any board. Um it just means that well I mean it's approved now so they don't have to come back before the board somebody pick it up right it's approved but but but when we refer to buy right we mean you don't come before a board or council or anything because you could just go and build it you can build you know development don't see too many of those most of it is resoning

uh which is why you know you see uh you know all the new stuff because it's really annexation reszoning coming into the town. Got to go through the process. Any reason why wouldn't you include that in this map over here? Because it's already approved by you guys. Probably it's stalled but right now. Okay. But that should not be part of the map or can it be part of the map in the future? If it moves to the administrative, the red is when we are putting it on. That's when you're starting administrative review. I think this is to track development, right? People call in every day. what's being built here and then you can point them to this map.

That makes sense to track the progress of any particular the other one is basically just how many permits are full for single family homes that have been approved and how many permits information that you guys know. I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I interrupted. So the information that you have here that you are aware of, is there a status field that could indicate this like orchard farms. So that's approved, but it's not going to move forward. So is there a a simple column that's going to show that so public is aware of it? Uh they're not hoping that the 459 are going to come up.

Yeah. And there's a there's a limit to the information we can put on there. And I don't mean that from a we're going to conceal the information, but um some of these get complicated. So we we don't want, you know, uh until there's a piece actually uh that's going to come in for redevelopment. And there is a piece that does want to come in and you'll see it. Um if but it is at the administrative stage. U they have not done TIA yet. They've not submitted their application. We're doing all the front-end work. as soon as they submit that application um then it will um you know it'll show up um and then the process will uh will begin uh and that's how it's track but you know th this will this will give you a really good idea what's going on in town you zoom out uh you can tell where the development is where the growth is ready

and you know with with what and we've got um some light industrial projects that are going to be that we're talking to right now. Matter of fact, we've got two probably the total between the two of them are probably half a million square feet. Uh so that's a that's a good sign. Um that's that's really one of the goals of of the council is to start to balance, you know, the the residential with some non-residential tax base. Uh so um as as that as that goes through the process and and I think in the past we've been giving you updates. So when that becomes a real uh project, you know, at this point, we're still in the in the form of stage. When it becomes a real project, uh that'll be on our our update to you um monthly. and some of the things that'll be on here. Um, you may hear something before it goes on there, but yeah, we're trying to keep this as current as possible, but there's a there's always going to be some

Whatever happened with that um data processing that we approved is that is that the same one? It it they didn't come here. No comment. In process in process that that's a good example. one in process. Um, so there's there's a lot of I'd hate for us to have change that and then pieces and parts someone else comes in and it's not a data center of it. Yeah. So, so um that's a good um example of a byite development um that you would not otherwise see unless there was a code

in in the case that to change a code for the height. Um you would have seen that if the if the height was fine, right? But we would have told you about it. Thanks. Here's what's coming uh coming to your neighborhood a a data center. Um that'll be about 250,000 square feet. Uh so it will be um hopefully uh getting uh approved not too distant future and they'll start uh construction back up. Uh but that that right there um is uh uh is going to be a a pretty sizable increase in our tax base right there from one

diversified tax base which is great. one one one number just to for those of you who like numbers all like numbers on this side uh numbers people um we did a uh a a check on the residential tax base compared to the non-residential tax base um it was 8020 residential to non-residential so the residential tax base I believe was approximately 3.6 6 billion. Uh non-residential was about 750 million. Um so you see there's a pretty big imbalance. So we want to add to the 750 and and not

is there is there a number where that's like a good like percentage are supposed to both be at that like people like town strive for? Well, so that's a good question.

Good question. Um, I'll just give you my experience uh in Huntersville, which probably has one of the one of one of the best um cross-section of all uses in uh in the area. Huntersville is about 7030 uh which is really really good. Um Davidson's about 8515. Cornelius is not much better. U so they are very very heavily weighted towards residential. Uh but in those communities of course you have some highriced residential housing. So you know there's there's an offset there. Uh but you know ideally 6040 be great.

Um you know 7030 is good but we we got to we got to up that number. Uh there's no question. But with some of the stuff that we're you know we're looking at um you know it can it can move up pretty uh uh pretty pretty quickly. Uh so that's you know that's a uh that's going to be an emphasis that's part of the comp plan. You know what's where's economic development going to take place? Where's it going to go? Uh what's it going to look like? Um what is the industrial park going to look like? Where are the building look like? Uh who are we attracting? And you know who do we want? So all those are

any questions on the map? When will things drop off? Like cookout's done, so it's goal. When will it when do you how do you plan on doing that? I think she was planning for 60 days. Okay. Just to check kind of announce. Yeah. So, it would it would peel off um the uh the list, but um you know, this this will give you a pretty pretty good idea what's going on. And uh it's a work in progress. We're going to we're going to look to refine it. you know, like the A through Z would be, you know, one. Yeah. Or even like residential, industrial. Yeah. I think would be even better. Yeah. And I wonder if that's possible to have those.

Yeah. We And there's there's other communities that do residential, non-res commercial, mixed use. It starts to get a little bit confusing. Um res.

Yeah. Yeah. I think as we get more non-residential, we'll probably have to feature it more. Right. At this point, we don't have uh you know, a whole lot, but it will be u it it is coming. uh the uh residential developers are still uh interested um in I will tell you in Harrisburg um and as long as interest rates don't go through the roof um then you know uh what's our what's our firm count through June likeund somewhere 180 I believe

yeah so we're probably tracking for about 250 for the year maybe a little bit more depending on um you know how things go But again, 250, multiply that by 3.5. If you could do the math in your head, what is that? 875 people. But that's permits, right? Are you tracking occupancies? Well, so here's the here's the thing. Okay. There was a time, Jessica, you know this, where the builders would build spec and then 2008 hit. After 2008, builders don't build spec. If they're putting up a a building, it's because they have a contract. So your point,

I was when I was in Huntersville, we used to actually track the cos because they would issue all these permits and they would just sit on them. Uh and it wasn't until the CO they came in that we knew that there was a person in there. But with us, it's pretty much, you know, one to one. They'll build a few maybe spec, but you know, not enough to make a a difference. Okay. Yeah. So for the non-residential like she mentioned cookout the complete date does that start once construction is complete or once it opens?

So the way it works um is this for commercial uh when they're complete building's complete site is complete we go out and inspect it. So Tom uh Leser, our uh code enforcement officer, will go out and compare the plans uh to what's on the ground. Uh engineering will go out and they'll look at the drain. They'll look at all the, you know, the things that they look at. Um if there's anything needs to be corrected, then it will be corrected. Uh once it's corrected, we issue a certificate of completeness.

Not to be confused with a certificate of occupancy. uh COO COC is very confusing. When they get that COC um they then can open. Now in the case of Cookout, I think we gave it to them Thursday and they were open Friday. They were, you know, so once they get that, they're good to go. And in most developments and Cookout was like this, they're submitting to the county building standards people at the same time they're they're submitting to us. So they're going through the whole building process, uh, plan review, architectural review, mechanical, all that. And, and so they're, you know, working together, uh, and then they get to the end and it's, um, but yeah,

if everything goes right in the cellar, they can't get their occupancy from the county until the town signs off the way it's supposed to work. Every once in a while, one falls through the cracks when things go right.

Yeah. we we get to push the button uh to say uh you know stop and and you know it could be a project could be in the in the middle um and there could be some kind of problem um and and usually we'll go out engineering will go out public works problem resolve it if we can't resolve it stop work order until it's resolved uh and so we put a stop work order on that usually accelerates the uh uh fixing of the problem. Uh we had one of those recently. Uh project not to be named. Uh but um you know we um it is regular um and there's no uh there's no real lag. And so uh we're we're at a point we're going to be moving from residential towards a fairly good section of non-residential. The hospital um is um 180,000 square feet, 100 beds. Um that's a big hospital.

Where's that going to be? Right next to the emergency room. Okay. We need No, we totally do. We totally need that. That's a big deal. Yeah. No, no, no. You're transferring people all the time to other places. So,

and and so, uh you know, they got their they and we knew it was coming for, you know, three or four years. uh but they've got to get approval from the state uh called a certificate of need and and you're familiar with Robbie you know that that says that there is sufficient demand because what the state doesn't want is a glut of hospitals um and uh you know that that that's not that's not good for uh the uh community not good for the state and it it causes a lot of problems. So, same thing with Puit. Puit had to get a certificate of of need for those beds. Uh, make sure there was a a need for it and uh and so it takes a while sometimes for that. But, uh, this is moving ahead. So, big picture on the hospital. Um, they have submitted and this a great example of administrative. Do we have them on here? Yeah. Okay. So, they're still in the in the pre pre stages. Um, so we're going through the plans and we're we're making suggestions. Uh, right now we're looking at the parking lot. Um, because it's a big parking lot and people are crossing over from the emergency room to the hospital and then from the uh use the the medical over onto the hospital and we got to, you know, so those are the kind of things we iron out ahead of time. Um and uh and then we'll get to the uh to the fun part which is what is the Harrisburg Atrium Hospital going to look like. U so that that's uh part of what our code allows us to do. Uh we have design control and uh that's going to be um be a big building. Uh we've got industrial buildings too that are going to be uh on the way. Um and and so there's there's going to be a lot uh coming out of the ground in the next two years. But in terms of timing um for the

hospital um they were looking to get their um their approvals. Now that will be a reasonzoning. That will need to be reszoned. So that'll be a conditional reszoning. You will see it. Um they're looking to come in um they were looking at this fall, but I think this is probably going to push out to the spring. Um, but they really wanted to be in the uh they wanted to be up and running in in 28 and and that's probably going to be 29 uh because it's a probably a 24 to 30 month project. Um and uh what at least what they've told us at this point is uh they're going to build um the superructure. They're going to build 400 beds but initially probably have 50. Uh but from a cost standpoint, efficiency standpoint, they don't want to come back and say, "Oh, let's add a third floor. Let's add a another, you know, it doesn't make sense." So, they're going to build the whole and and so there'll be some open space. Uh but that'll be um uh you know probably hopefully in 26 start you know breaking ground on that and uh but that'll be a probably a two-year at least project.

All right. You got anything else on it? You good on that? Yep. So we're we're good on that. Um September um at this point September 16th. We have um we have anything on the We might we might

we might So part of the administrative thing then it they're ready to roll which means it's coming out of our shop into your domain. Um and uh as soon as it's ready to roll uh it will come before you. But we have several of those hospitals in that category. Um and uh you know there are others that uh but if it's approved um and the zoning is good like the uh data center that's going to move ahead and uh you will hear about it from us um we give an update but uh you won't see it right.

Okay. Well good. Is that anybody's got any other questions? Do I got a motion to adjurnn? So moved. Got a second. Second. Second. All in favor? I Hallelujah.