Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. Good evening. I'd like to call the meeting of the Hancock County Area Plan Commission to order this evening, April 21st, 2026. Um, first thing I'd like to note to everyone is that we're short some members this evening. So, we're right at a quorum minimum with five members present this evening. So any action this evening will require um essentially a unanimous decision from these five people. So if you're uncomfortable with with that, you will uh have the opportunity to uh request a continuance of your um of your petition. All right. Uh we ask that this evening you please turn off any cell phones, electronic devices, noise makers. Our first order of business this evening will be the adoption of the um March meeting minutes that were submitted electronically. Actually, just recently, the updated version today.

Uh Mr. President, there's only uh four of us here that can vote on it. One was not here, so I asked for it to be. Yeah. The minutes I did spring break. Yeah, Byron wasn't here. Yep, you're correct. We'll have to continue that to next month. All right. Um, you need a motion on that? Yeah, let's have a motion to continue the motion to continue the minutes till there's a quorum for the minutes to be voted on.

All right. It's been moved and seconded to continue our meeting minute approval until next month. All those in favor signify by saying I opposed. Same sign. Motion carries. Uh, our roll call this evening, we have Mr. Um, so we've got Mr. Dean Fout, we have Mr. Byron Holden, Mr. Wendle Hester, Mr. Scott Waldridge, and myself, Michael Long. I'd like to call your attention to our agenda. Um, all county area plan commission agendas now list all of the appointed members and the appointing body so that uh that is easily traceable for you. If you uh have a concern and you want to go to that appointing body, you can you can find that on our meeting minutes and on our agendas and on our website. I'd like to also advise that all testimony is being recorded and taken under oath. We request that anyone wishing to speak do so when called upon. We'll ask you to come forward, face uh our attorney to my left, and be sworn in before speaking. All persons speaking will be asked to give their full name for the record and please spell your last name so that we have accurate meeting minutes. Our uh planning director, Kayla, will give her staff report. Uh then the petitioner is given 10 minutes for their presentation and then that's followed by a collective 10 minutes for any remmonstrators. Uh we then offer five minutes for government officials and then a five-minute petitioner rebuttal at the end. Our attorney will give each party a twominut and one minute warning while they're speaking. We ask that all persons conduct themselves in a civil manner. And if you aren't able to do that, we reserve the right to ask you to leave. Uh, this meeting is being recorded and streamed for public viewing. And by participating, you acknowledge that your image, voice, and comments may be captured and made publicly available. This meeting has been properly noticed in accordance with Indiana Code 514 1.5. And then, just so you know, the black chairs in the middle are the ones that are most visible on the screen. So, if you're not comfortable being on the

screen, I wouldn't sit there. Um, we had an an item on our agenda that was withdrawn. That was the Ninstar Park and that that reszoning was withdrawn and I believe that the project is moving forward as a nature preserve under his current R1 zoning. So, if you're here for that, there will be no further discussion on that reszone. So, with that, we have two hearing items this evening and we'll go ahead and get started with hearing item number one. Tonight we have a primary plat for a major residential subdivision to consider. Uh this is um on 80.68 acres located in center township uh just on the south side of Maxwell. Um it is the goal is to create a 22 lot major subdivision on septic and well. The petitioner is here tonight um is represented by prime 47 and Jeremiah Hammond. Uh access for the subdivision would be through country mill subdivision. Uh, no additional access points would be on State Road 9 or the adjacent county road system at this time. Uh, street stubs are planned for adjacent property access. This was an early sketch plan um that was discussed with us and largely has held pretty true to how the um how the layout has proceeded. Um you can see

here that uh how the neighborhood connects to the south side of country I'm sorry country mill subdivision um and ends in a culde-sac. Uh some additional um ride ofways have been added onto the primary plat and also a um the regulated drain that goes through the southern tier of plats is going to be relocated to the south edge of the subdivision. There is a gate across the end of the uh the culde-sac to create some kind of private lots. Um we discussed this at the um a little bit at the tech committee and uh neither the single point of access on state road 9 nor the gate um gave any uh any issues. Um, we talked about I did touch base with Ninstar. Um, they mentioned that uh, Knoxbox typically makes the gate okay. Um, and highway wasn't concerned with a single point of access on nine until significantly more lots become part of a subdivision. Here was the primary plat as it was submitted. You can see what I was talking about with the um relocated regulated drain and the uh changed up road stubs. Also sidewalks added to the um streets.

Could you point out the entrance to me? Yeah. So, do you see where the roads go up and into Oh, there we go. up and into Country Mill. There's an existing stub. And then here's the boulevard entrance off of State Road 9. Where is it? Right there. Here.

You'll notice that these are all fairly large lots. Um you can see kind of how they line up against the back of Country Mill. I've included some segments on primary plat approval and the process that this board goes through. The technical meeting minutes are included in your um in your packets so you can see what comments were there and what comments have been addressed. So the plan commission um has the ability then to determine um that the PLA application and plat comply with the standards in the subdivision control um in this chapter. Um they shall make written findings um and may grant primary approval to the plat if all of these things are true. Um, as a condition of primary approval, the commission may specify the manner in which public ways shall be laid out, graded, and improved. A provision for water, sewage, and other utility services, a provision for lot size, number, and location, a provision for drainage design, and a provision for other services as specified in this chapter. If after the hearing the plan commission disapproves the plat, it shall make written findings that set forth its reasons and a decision denying primary approval. The commission may also refer a plat back to the technical committee for review or study on a specific technical matter.

Approval of a primary plat shall not constitute approval of a secondary plat. Rather, it shall be deemed an expression of approval to the layout submitted on primary plat as a guide to the preparation of the secondary plat and shall permit the subdivider to proceed with construction or permanent improvements for which designs and specifications shall have been approved by the appropriate agencies. Approval of the primary plat will terminate two years after the date of approval unless further extended by the commission upon written request of the subdivider and by filing 60 days prior to the expiration of the uh approval. Subsequent approval will be required of the engineering of proposals pertaining to water supply, storm drainage, sewage and sewage disposal, grading and gradients, roadway widths and the surfacing of streets by the county board of commissioners where concerned prior to the approval of the secondary plat by the commission. In designing a street system, the subdivider shall be guided by the following principles. And I bring this up because we did have some questions about how the streets got laid out and where stubs went, things like that. Um, so we look at adequate vehicular and pedestrian access uh provided to all parcels. Local or residential street systems shall be designed to minimize through traffic movement, but street connections into and from adjacent areas may be required. Local street patterns and shall be shall provide reasonable direct access to the primary circulation system. Local circulation systems and land development patterns shall not conflict with the efficiency of bordering arterial routes.

Elements in the local circulation system should be designed with the least amount of interruptions possible in order to function effectively and safely. Traffic generators within residential areas shall be considered in the design of the circulation. Planning and construction of residential streets shall clearly relate to their local function. Local streets shall be designed to discourage excessive speeds. Pedestrian vehicular conflict points shall be minimized. The space devoted to street uses shall be minimized. The number of intersections shall be minimized. Local streets shall be related to topography. Additionally, rights of way of for proposed streets shall be extended to the boundary lines of the proposed subdivision so that a connection can be made to all adjacent properties unless the extension is not feasible because of topography or other physical conditions or unless in the opinion of the commission the extension is not necessary or desirable for the coordination with existing streets or the most advantageous development of adjacent tracts. In any event, no subdivision shall be designed so as to create or perpetuate the landlocking of adjacent undeveloped land. So we definitely look at future uses, how the future land use map relates what current zoning is of surrounding parcels. When we look at where these stub streets go, there is a maximum culde-sac length of street length of 1300 feet. Um, additionally, there's a maximum block length of 1,200 ft. Um, that is one thing that is comment that I have on

this particular subdivision, though it's only 22 lots total. The lots are bigger than we're used to looking at. So, um, the length added up quickly. Um, block length as submitted was, uh, exceeding that 1,200 ft at about 1650. Um, so that was my, um, comment in my recommendation, which I changed up a little bit to be more flexible since my staff report was sent out. I wanted to point that out. Um, so approve with the following conditions. It's my staff recommendation. Uh, no block shall exceed 1,200 linear feet and no culde-sac street shall exceed 1300 linear feet in length. Adjustments to the stub street locations will be required in order to accomplish this. Final stub street locations will be reviewed and approved by the technical committee prior to preparation of the secondary plat. Avoid stubbing street to south in a way that would imply removal of woods and wetland to south. the number of lots in this primary plat um should not exce shall not exceed 22. So that's where we landed. Um apart from the block length, it does uh comply with the design standards and also the uh zoning uh district requirements for R1 zoning. That's what I based my staff recommendation on. Do you have any questions? Oh, we did receive um one letter of remmonstrance. Um Steve Ellbury represented uh RMK Farms to the north.

Y I do have a question um about the findings. Yes. And uh are we always going to write f find findings now or Well, findings and recommendation. The findings is recommendation. I have staff findings that I present in my staff report and then I form a recommendation which I present to you. So our staff report is essentially our findings. Okay. Thank you. Um how close is the ninear pipes for water and so they are at on the map are they on nine? Yes. Up at the school. Oh they're all way up at the school. Yes.

Okay. So down at that Okay. They haven't gone across this the junction street yet. We did have a chat with the Ninstar staff a virtual meeting to discuss the availability of water and sewer. Um and it's as you know just a little far off. Um at this point it'd be it's about looks like if it's a mile be about a million dollars. Yeah. So they're not I was wondering if they were at nine yet right by it because if they were that'd be different. We should definitely have them pipe in. Thanks. All right. Any additional questions for the staff? All right. Seeing none, I will have the the petitioner come up.

Did you raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Please state your name. Spell your last name for the record. David Gilman. G I L M. My address is 211 South Ritter Avenue, Swed, Indianapolis 46219. 10 minutes.

Thank you. Thank you, members of the board. Um, I won't necessarily regurgitate um what the staff has already presented, but I do want to kind of highlight some of the important parts that Kayla brought up in her presentation. We um have 80 acres, 22 lots. Um they average from the smallest lot is about 2 acres, the largest lot is 6 acres. The property is somewhat unusual. It's about a half mile east to west and about 1,00 to,300 feet north to south. So we will extend Country Mills Drive and then as it heads south it'll head back east. Um that is quite a distance as I mentioned about a half mile. So in order to accommodate the requirements of the length of the blocks we have um two or three different options. we can provide a stub street to the north which will basically provide future access to about 36 acres of undeveloped property um to the east and to the north of Country Mills Estates in Maxwell. We then um have property to the south that we could provide one or two stub streets to. As Kayla mentioned, one of the stub streets um might be in an area um that is heavily wooded. We don't know the impact of maybe bringing a street through that woods, but then there is other options for a second stub street to the south. Um, and I think what Kayla was trying to achieve with us is we have some flexibility um to provide those stub streets either north or north and south or two to the south in order to um break up that length of the the block. Um, my client just wants to make sure that we are very flexible. We're agreeable to whatever the outcome in and the decision of this plan commission andor the staff would make on which of these substrates they think is most appropriate for our

development. We do have um uh several neighbors that I just briefly spoke with before the hearing. We discussed with them um some of the requirements um that my client has agreed to um upgrade and beautify the entrance of Maxwell um uh Country Mill subdivision and also we would provide our own entrance sign where we leave uh Country Mill estates into Advita Estates. We would provide a mound that would buffer the south side of Maxwell with the north side of Advita. That mound would be elevated and landscaped. Our common areas, our entrances would all be maintained um including our ponds by an HOA. And then my client has also agreed to certain architectural standards for each home. minimum square footage on a one-story uh minimum square footage on out buildings and minimum amount of material. If you would like to know those details, um I certainly would like to allow him time to to answer those. We provided um the staff as part of our requirement for the meeting the preliminary plat a feasibility report. That feasibility report discusses our sanitary sewer system which we are providing um on-site septic systems that have been approved by the the use of those se systems has been approved by the health department and we provided them our soil samples. The water as mentioned um is not feasible um to provide water service um to this property or the area. Um we do have storm water drainage plan that is very conventional. It's within the Richie wershed. It'll be basically street inlets to grass swell inlets to our detention holding ponds and

eventually to the Richie Dutch. Um the um we think uh in our feasibility study we also talk about our street construction. Again, our street meets public street standards. We will have a private gate for the last six lots that will have a knockbox. um available to uh fire protection. Um we will have obviously property erosion control measures throughout the development throughout the construction. We hope that the plan commission would accept our feasibility report and our findings. We agree with the conditions that the staff has outlined and their findings and their recommendations um to allow us a little bit of flexibility on the final decision on which substrates we will construct. But again, we're going on record that we will construct whatever stub streets um ends up uh being our our requirement to meet the block standards and try to accommodate our neighbors. Um with that, I'd answer questions that board members would have.

Those does that have a county road that's run into those last six lots? But you talked about gating. Yes, that would just be an extension of our our public street into a private street that would service just the six private. So, you're planning on having it we'll have a public street. It'll be built to public standards. Is that correct? Yes. Just it'll just have a private gate for some security and some exclusivity of of those six lots.

You have to be sworn in. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Please state your name and spell your last name.

Jeremiah Hammond, 4812 North, 300 East, Greenfield, Indiana 46140. So that that gated part is intended to be for my children. I have six children and it connects to my property through the woods to the east. And I also own the 48 acres behind those five lots that back up to the 67 acres that is my estate off of 300. So the intention is to use the public street for egress ingress, but to also be able to drive the four-wheelers and golf carts back and forth between my children's lots and my lot. I own an additional 108 acres to the east of that uh those five lots. Five lots of Yeah,

a gated five lots in the back. Which ones are the gated? Is that 11? 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16. Oh, so you're going to put a gate way back there? Yes. That's weird. We understand it would be our responsibility for snow removal, maintenance, all that. I was thinking you were gating the whole neighborhood. No, that would make more sense. I mean, that's what you typically do is gate neighbor.

We ever have we I would have to ask if Caleb, do we even have that in this county anywhere where they where neighborhood is gated part of a neighborhood but not all the neighborhood? Actually dealing with this right now at Manship Estates. So, I appreciate that we're talking about it here at the planning phase versus later on when we already have the houses built and things laid out differently. So, this is the time to discuss it. Yeah. Um, like I said, it's that the fire and police, have they gotten a chance to to comment on this? Yes. At technical committee, Will Frederick's did not have anything um additional to add. So,

I meant I meant like Noah. No, no, no, no. the fire up there, the fire the fire chief in Green Township. I believe that's still Green Township. Will Frederick represents all of the fire departments on our technical committee. Okay. Um and no, they reach out to each of the sheriff Birkhart and he does reach out to the fire chiefs. So nothing was found there. Knox typically will handle. Yeah. So the gated part would be done by county standards, but it'd be done by the builder and maintenance by the builder. Correct. It would turn into a private drive beyond that gate. So they'd have to do all their snow removal of do all the road maintenance. It's a private road essentially. Yes.

A public road.

And is that documented in this plat somewhere? Uh, it is listed as a private drive on the um on the sketch and I'm sure it is on the actual plat itself as well. There's a lot more to it. I've got a full-size copy here in case you need to look at it. I mean, I'm a little confused. We're we're looking at it, but we're saying there's going to be a lot of changes, streets and lot sizes. And so I would think we'd be looking at what we're actually going to be there, not what may be there.

That is up to you guys to choose um if what you're going to do moving forward with this. And if you do need a bigger copy, like I said, I can pull this bigger one up or I can pull a page up on my computer in particular. Um, but one of the notes about this, let's see, find it. Okay. Approval of the primary plat shall not constitute approval of a secondary plat. Rather, it shall be deemed an expression of approval to the layout submitted on the primary plat as a guide to the preparation of the secondary plat and shall permit the subdivider to proceed with construction or permanent improvements for which designs and specifications shall have been approved by the appropriate agencies.

Yeah. So, one, I guess we could request or require that the secondary plaque comes back to the plan commission. Excuse me. We could require that the secondary plan come back to the plan commission so that we could see it in its complete form. You could I mean, we used to see them, but where where does the gate go? If it's lots I think you said 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. It's very It's on this. It is on the Yeah, you can see it on the plat. It's hard to see, but if you look at the sheet six, you can see it. Sheet six. Yeah,

she said 16. He named 12, 13, 14, 15. So, it'll it'll be on lots 15 and 11. 12, 13, 14, 15. Is there different lot numbers? Yeah. Where the gates are 16 and 10. Okay. Numbers he gave were 12 13 14 15.

Okay. So different numbers on this one. Yes. Because of Okay. Okay. One, two, okay. And this these uh commitments to entry sign, entry upgrade, the mound I see is here and there were some covenants discussed on architectural standards etc. That that's not done, right? The covenants are not

the covenants are not completed. Okay. Correct. All right. Do we have any additional questions for the petitioner? Yeah. Are there going to are there going to be a separate HOA or an HOA clause for those back lots uh to maintain ponds or to maintain the gate? Yeah, we will have an HOA that will clearly identify what maintenance responsibilities they will have. and talking to my client if it bothers the commission the gate is not critical but

I mean it's just something we've never done before so it's something we probably might need to look into a little bit but it's something that we should we can consider or should consider

um the other thing is the only change you'll see on the plaque other than maybe some technical requirements but as far as lot sizes is just where we're going to put the substrates and my client is compliant and agreeable to put them wherever the staff feels they're appropriate and I think we have remmonstrator that may have some input on the north stub. So, those are the only changes. Outside of that, there's no lot changes other than a stub street may shift from one side of the street to the other. Um, but yes, an HOA would be responsible for all the maintenance activity. And I did mention some of the improvements that the um some of our neighborhood friends will probably get up and talk about and we'll make sure that those go on record and we'll put them in our covenants to make sure that what we promised them um is of record tonight and on our covenants as well.

I saw that there was a page by Kayla had some questions, but is there uh are these going to be dry p? Obviously these can't be dry ponds, right? I think maybe the smaller ones will be dry, but for the most part the big one on on the plan will be a wet pond. Yeah. Just got to have water for the fire if there's a fire there.

And I assume the covenants will come with the with the secondary. That's correct. Yes. As as staff mentioned, this is just to set the a solid blueprint of what the plat's going to look like and the covenants when we finalize it. Okay. Right. Any additional questions for the petitioner? So, is there I don't actually see an easement for utilities. Is it there? You have you have water and sewer on your lots, but electric and whatever. Yeah. Typically, those will run along the street on each side of the street. I

think they were trying to get away from having utilities on the back side of the lot. So, they want everything along the street. We have enough area between the right of way and uh in the front of the lots to provide the utilities which would be electric gas. I also want to mention the covenants are were given to me by Dave Seagull who's built in Greenfield for a long time. Uh pull the microphone up a little closer. I'm having a hard time. The co covenants were given to me by Dave Sego who's built in Greenfield extensively. He's going to be one of the primary builders of this neighborhood. Okay. Yeah. So, we're copying his covenants from some other residential areas that he has here in Greenfield. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. But we're also trying to figure out the I'm also looking at the part you're making private, you know, which is probably going to be different covenants and and I'm looking for the easements onto those properties. thements will still be provided along the streets. The only thing private in nature, the street will be built to public standards. The only thing private is the fact that u my client would like to have a gate across his his private lots for he and his family. That's the only private part about it. Everything else will be built to public standards. The utilities will be in place. The the street pavement will be in place and protected by by an easement as well. The only the only reason I wanted it private is we've been there for about 14 months and we frequently we have trail cameras up in the woods and we have people riding dirt bikes and hunting back there unapproved. We put up trail cams. We've caught at least a dozen people out there on the private land. So my my goal was to get some separation from that so they're not just, you know, driving through the neighborhood and and going back into woods and then that adds liability to me if something happens so on and so forth. So, would it be a So, then when you when you tell me that, would that mean that the gate's going to be more than just at the road? It'll be

No, the the gate It'll just be at the road, right? The gate will be at the road and then there'll be fencing. Oh, there it Okay. Yep. That's what I was want. Okay. All right.

When I was talking about the easement, I'm just talking about it. I didn't find it in writing on here. I understand that you run along the side of the street, but I'm used to actually seeing it written out. So, that's why I brought it up. Do you have all the all the pages of the PL? Because it should be on the utility plan sheet and then the actual dedication of those easements would be done on the final PL. should be marked D, U, and E. Drainage and utility east. Oh yeah, it's uh 20 25 foot range. It's on you can see it on five and six by

Yeah, it's identified as a 25 foot DU and E. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. I figured it was there because Mike's pretty good at all this stuff. Thank you. All right. Any additional questions for the petitioner? All right. That's good. Thank you. Do we have anybody that wants to speak in opposition this evening? Have a show of hands. We have a bunch of people. Just one. Okay. We have two. Give each five minutes then. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do.

State your name, spell your last. My name is Steve Ellbury. EL Lsb R Y. Play with your computer here. Yes. Before we get started, Yep.

Good evening. My name is Steve Ellbury. I'm an attorney here in Greenfield with an office at 8 West Main Street. I'm here this evening on behalf of RMK Farms LLC. Um I don't know if you can see the parcel that is the uh gun shape up there on the map. That that's my client. Um when I was a young attorney, I was pulled aside by a prominent zoning attorney and he told me if I was going to do planning and zoning, I should never be opposed to development. So I want to make it clear tonight. We are not opposed to this project. Our concern is for where the north stub road goes. Uh that is our main concern. I'm going to play with Kayla's slideshow here. Um I know she had it because she read it. So under subsection 155.072D 072D of the Hancock County Subdivision Control Ordinance. Streets are to ex are to extend to boundary lines unless in the opinion of the commission, which is you guys. The extension is not necessary or desirable for coordination of streets or the most advantageous development of adjacent tracks. That's the part I want to focus on tonight. The RMK portion of the property was the remaining part of the existing Country Mills. So, that was supposed to be developed as part of Country Mills. As a result, it currently has three streets already stubbed into it. Um the one that I'd like to point out to you is the southernmost there. It is called um what's it called? Waterhe drive. It's 200 ft north of the proposed subdivision here tonight. So um our concern is that if the road stub to the north is put in where it's located, the RMK partial is very small right there. It's narrow. So, we are doing is creating an intersection on my client's parcel which will render it undevelopable unless that sewer, Mr. Waldridge, comes in there because we've got to have two acre lots. So, we're basically making a road to nowhere

because we can't develop that property because now we have two roads and we can't put any any houses in there. So, um that's that's our main concern. I I appreciate Mr. Gilman saying he's willing to work with us. I've not had any conversations with the developer. I reached out to Mike Gibson's office late Friday. He was out of town. He said he tried to put me in touch, but we were not able to to touch base. Um the other the other concern that we have on that on that subsection is that it says that all roads shall extend except for the main road they've got does not extend to the boundary to the east. It ends in a culde-sac. So if we're going to have that consideration of a culde-sac there, we would appreciate a culde-sac not infringing on our property because it's going to devalue our property, not be able to make it developable. There's no need for connectivity there because we have two accesses off of 500 North. I grew up off of 500 North. Very familiar with this area. Plus, we have already three stub roads out of Country Mill. So, um I hope I hope that makes sense. I I I was in the office Friday. Um according to Dawn, at that point in time, mutual aid had made no comments as far as where the roads go, what it looks like. There were no comments. So, I'm not sure how the fire and everybody has signed off because at that point in time, mutual aid had not responded. Um, my ability to give you anything in writing was noon Friday and there was nothing in the file for me to respond to. So, um, if County Highway is fine with one way in and out, that's great with us. Don't put a road into our property that's going to devalue my client's property. That's that's our position.

All right. So, I got questions. Sure. All right, Mr. Alsbury. Um, so it sounds like you have it looks like you have two choices and you can take out that side road between 16 and 17 lot, which I don't know if you'd see. I can't see Mr. Let me see if I can play with 17 and 18. Next one. Okay. Okay. So, that one 16 and 17. So, you want that side road taken out as one option. If you look to the north there, there's already a road that runs east west. So, if you extend that road north into my client's property, you're going to have to have a minimum of two acres if you're going to put it on septic. And so, you're not going to be able to build any houses there. So, it's going to be a road to nowhere. Um, so there's no need to have connectivity if it's never going to be able to be developed because of where the location of the road is.

Okay. Um, and when I talked to Mike Gibson, he said, "This is one point where connectivity is bad because we don't need the connectivity. These 22 houses are just fine with the highway in and out there. Uh, if the property that my client owns is going to be developed in the future, it has plenty of in-n-outs. There's no need to to try to take these 22 lots in and out of my client's property." The the other option that I thought of is what if it the road was between 15 and 16 before the gate that would it would put at the end of your it would still put a T at the end.

That's why I wish Mike Gibson were here because I'm not a surveyor because it it's still going to have to run and and then turn back to connect to that existing waterhe road that's there would be my point or my thought. I would think Wonder Wheel would just come and tee into it and then we keep going to Milstream and tee into that. I I think there's probably an opportunity for us to sit down with the petitioner and work that out. I just don't know if we're able to do it tonight. Uh I know you guys have a short board anyway. So, that was going to be part of what I suggested is maybe give us a month to work together. Um like I say, Mr. Gibson's out of town. I wasn't able to

Well, we would and and then see who would I don't know. We'd probably need to check with uh with some of the tech committee to see if we took that sub sub road off it. That'd be fine because we I mean we'd probably want their opinion on that too. We we talked about that Friday morning, didn't we, Don? Before I submitted my email. Um and so really have no objection to think it's going to be a great project. Just concerned where that road's going to go and how it's going to impact my client's property because there's plenty of access to to my client's property currently. So don't want to do anything that would detrimentally impact

my client's property. And it was interesting, Mr. are holding. I did go back and look. Um I think you are supposed to develop findings. Even if you approve this primary plat, I think you're supposed to adopt findings. When I I've done this since 2009, and I've never really been involved in this process. It's always left it up to the surveyor. But when I went back and looked, that's what your rules actually say is you got to adopt findings here is that you meet check x y and z. So interesting when you actually go and Marian County I' I've watched them have findings on the BZA all the time but uh I think there's reasons why we haven't done it necessarily in the past. Happy to answer any other questions. If not, I'll sit down and let this gentleman talk to you. Thank you.

Thanks. Right. We had one additional person that wanted to speak. Yep. Going up. How much time do we have left? Let's see. You had five minutes, but you still have a minute and a half, so six and a half minutes. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Please state your name, spell your last name.

My name is Ray Haggard. I own the property on 4763 North State Road 9, which would be in Maxwell Heights, which is uh a couple lots beyond uh to the north of the Country Meal um street where that addition. Could you spell your last name for us, please, for I'm sorry. Haggard. H A G G A R D. Okay. First name Ray. Thank you. Go right ahead.

My My concern is that um with my property on the north, which I guess I was going to start out by thinking I don't have a problem with some a person wanting to develop their property. Um, I understand that and I appreciate you guys considering the adverse effects it might be causing other people in that area. And that whole area in there seems to flood very easily from Cranberry Estates all the way up. And my property has a drain 8 in uh riser that comes up in the northwest corner. And when we get heavy rain, there'll be 6 in of water standing on top of my septic system. And it takes a good long time before it will even start to drain. And my concern is of what additional water is going to be pushed to that area. And then it seems odd to me that addition that sounds like a premium addition going to be going through a country mill to get to it. And sounds like this is this seems to be step one of other steps. So my overall concern is the water in that area and it's going to be on a well and septic, but um I don't know what is going to affect me. My house I can uh the subpump will push it the water out. the neighbor to the south, his subp pump will run continuously for days because it floods out his um crawl space. So, that's that was my main concern. I wanted to make sure that it's being considered. And I know the um my concern when I first got this letter, I get a cover letter page 4 and 12 through 16. I understand that

you're here to represent me, but I sure I'm sure glad I came because I don't know by this what any of this was about. So, that is my beef and concern. So, okay. I appreciate your consideration of that. Thanks. Any questions for him? No. All right. Thanks. All right. So, we have uh you have a fivem minute rebuttal period, Mr. Gil.

Thank you. um to address the uh the requirements of the preliminary plat. Um I believe going through the ordinance that we've met those requirements. Um the one outstanding issue that I think you've heard here tonight is where those steps reach should ultimately end up. Again, I'd like to stress that we will be agreeable to whatever is negotiated um either with the adjoiner or um with the staff or a combination of both. Um I think the important thing is um that we try to provide that connectivity that is the intent of the subdivision control ordinance. Um and so with that um I think the staff's put it into one of their conditions that we we agree to um to to negotiate that as as we go into the final plat process. Um, the other thing as far as drainage is concerned with with this gentleman and his concerns, part of the requirement is that we take into account the entire watershed of the Richie legal drain. And if water happens to be coming on our property from other properties, we have to take that water flow into consideration. And the practice generally is if water is in more of a structured environment with ponds, pipes, and inlets, um it actually has is is in a better management system and improves the situation for surrounding properties than if it just sheet flows off of farm fields that may or may not be protected with erosion control or grass to slow the waterershed down or to absorb the uh the rain waterfall. Um again, um we would like to uh have this board grant us preliminary plat approval subject to the conditions that the staff has outlined in the report. Um, we have on record certain items that we'll put in our commitments and covenants to um, solidify our conversations with our neighbors with as far as landscaping, mounting, entrances, um, HOAs, ponds,

and, um, maintenance of the gate um, in the private part of the street that my client desires. And with that, um, we're here to answer additional questions that this board may have of us. Any more questions? No. All right.

I don't I don't have any questions, but I think if we if the stub street changes or anything, I think it should have a sign off by the street commissioner, not just whatever agreement in the drawing. And he's already signed off on what he's looking at, but if if there's a major change in a street, I think he should sign off on it. Yeah, I'm actually happy to bring this back to the technical committee. Um, and that way uh the street the highway department will get a chance to look at it and comment. Thank you.

We can also definitely um offer a place for the petitioner to sit down with surrounding property owners to make sure that the surrounding layout is okay. Thank you.

All right. Any more questions? All right. So what we have here we can look to approve uh deny continue. Um if we want to approve, we can approve with some conditions. And some of the conditions were obviously the staff conditions. And then we also heard um discussion on an entry upgrade, an entry sign, uh some mounding covenants, and some discussion on locations of the substrate stub street. And then um uh this all going back to the tech committee prior to secondary plat. And we could also require that secondary plaque comes back to this board if you wanted to see it again. So those would would be our options. We could also continue if you would like uh to see a more complete version of a primary plat. I mean we did have a request that you know from the to continue.

I I mean my my question would be is should should the tech committee or somebody weigh in if we're considering either eliminating it or moving it between moving it slightly one lot over. Yeah. I mean I mean it's continuing it. Could I mean could it go to tech committee at the same time while we're continuing then it comes back to see if they have an issue with that. Yeah, I think ultimately Kayla it would be going to tech committee prior to secondary plat. Right. So a a process could be that we could require it to go back to tech committee and that secondary plat come back to this board and then that would kind of complete that circle. I think

yes it can. So typically if this was just a straightforward approval this evening um this would uh Mike Gibson would prepare the secondary plat and it would go to the technical committee. All comments would be addressed and then I would administratively approve it. It would not come back to this board. That's the typical process. Mhm. Um, this evening, since there are some questions about Stub Street location, we're already committing to get it right back on the technical committee agenda and make sure that that primary plat is feasible with the highway department. Okay. So, that's what's part of our condition tonight.

So, a primary plat revision would go back to the tech committee. Yes. And so, that's whether or not you approve it or continue it. Um either way, um it could go back to the technical committee. So you could say approve with staff conditions that it go back to technical committee to make sure those stub street locations are technically correct or you could say continue this. We want to see where those stub street locations are and bring it back next month and it'll still go back to tech. So it still go back to tech before it came back to us. Yes. Okay, that's that was what I was wondering.

Yeah. And e and either way, I mean, whether I guess the question would be, do you want to see a primary plat again or do you want to see a secondary plat or do you just trust the whole process? I would want to do a primary plat again and then not have to do a secondary plat. I mean I mean that I mean I want to get it done right the first time and everybody's happy and everybody walks out and they're feeling good. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm just going to say I mean she's correct what it normally is now, but when it was approved for the planner to sign off on the secondary plat, it was already brought up that at any time this board could request

it to come to us is why we're saying this. Yeah. So, in order to get it back to us, we could either require that the secondary come here, which is what I was proposing, or we could just request to see a new primary like Scott had mentioned, and then let it follow that old proc that regular process and be secondary be approved in the office. I agree with Scott. So that would be a a continue then for a new a new primary revised a revised primary comes back to this board. I think we should at least continue to next month.

All right. We'll need a motion. We're all good for that. motion to continue this to next month that it would go back to the tech committee in between. Okay. And so that for the sole purpose of determining sites sub street or whatever you want to call second. Okay. Okay, it's been moved and seconded to continue the primary P plat for the May meeting with the primary purpose of it going back to tech committee to work out the stub street locations. I'll have Don call the role on that.

Mr. Yes. Yes. Mr. Long. Yes. Yes. Mr. Bout.

Yes. Okay, five approved. We will see you guys next month. Thank you for all the information. Okay, that moves us to item number two, Citrus Harbor LLC. Where we at? Item number two. 400 West.

Ready to go. Give them just a second here.

We need to make a new rule that if you come, you're you're here to stay. Stay. I know you're listening. I don't want to rush you, but if you're leaving, please uh make your way out and close the door behind you, please. Thanks, Steve. All right, we can go ahead.

All right, our second item tonight is a reszone. This is the reason of Citrus Harbor LLC uh located at 3659 North 400 West uh from Agriculture to Industrial General. As you can see, this is located just north of where the warehouses are really um clustered along 300 North at County Road 400 West. The intended use is an equipment sales and rental facility.

And that's the 6.9 acre site. It's outlined in blue and it is uh due due um east of the airport property. So it's just south of 400 north.

Correct. Here's the current zoning map. You can see how agricultural zoning still dips around um into this area. Uh how IBP zoning, the purple, um comes up and meets the institutional zoning, that gray color that covers the airport property. Where's the closest IG zoning? Because it looks like you're just putting IG in the middle. Three different zones. Now the now IG gray is institutional. Yes. Let me look.

Institutional general. It's it's like this is it looks like we're doing all IBP in this area. That's an IG request. That's really my concern on this.

So our future land use map does not differentiate uh between industrial. It does have a separate color for business park which is a blue color but it does not differentiate in the industrial districts um light versus heavy. Um in our zoning code it does talk about um it does talk about inside versus outside industrial uses. Industrial light is typically reserved for inside uses. general is intended for outdoor industrial uses. So in this case a largecale tool uh equipment rental uh would be an outdoor lot area and that is why industrial general was requested by the petitioner because it seemed more accurate with the intended end use. But it really makes a lot of things that could be there besides that. A big list. There it is. It was hard to see on here.

Okay. So, the industrial general is the dark blue color. So you'll see we've got a little piece over here. That's stone land actually. That'll go back to egg. That's going back to Yeah.

So we won't look at that. Um but then we look over in the industrial park area and we have some warehouse areas that are zoned IG. I'll zoom in here so we can see what that difference is. Yeah. So IG is the dark blue. Iel is lighter blue and once again that has to do with the lists that are involved there and the intended purpose of those zoning districts is for IIL to be inside. So probably a lot of our warehouses are really I and IG being heavier more intensive outdoor uses. Um and then IBP of course is more business than industrial really. But the IDP would work with a special exception, right?

I would have to double check now, but I'm pretty sure that is true. Oh, here it is. Um, yes, it is a special exception in a CNCCR, IBP. It is also permitted in IEL or IG, but once again, it would not really meet by what they're doing. Um, if it was all indoors, it would meet the IL zoning district, but it's not. So that's why we're in IG. All right. And well, I guess

maybe it's just the strategy, but I mean we they this project could have gone to the BZA without a reason for a special exception in in a right could have done that. So,

so long-term, if we look at the future land use map, this is an area that is shown as industrial. That's that gray area. And like I said, it doesn't really differentiate between um what level of industrial. It does have a different level, a different color from manufacturing versus industrial. Um and then business park, like I said, is a separate color, that light cyan blue. Oh, sorry I didn't make it into presentation mode. I did um and actually this was a point I needed to make Byron so thank you for bringing it up. Um so the in IG zoning district uh purpose intended to provide locations for general industrial manufacturing production assembly warehousing research and development facilities and similar land uses and that is exactly the same over in IIL to that point. Then it goes into um this district is intended to accommodate a variety of industrial uses and locations and under conditions that should minimize land use districts. this district should be used to support industrial retention and expansion in Hancock County. Over on the IIL district, rather than going into that, it says this district is intended to accommodate only industrial uses that are completely contained within structures and do not involve the outdoor storage of materials or release potential environmental pollutants. This district should be used to support industrial retention and expansion in Hancock County. So that's the difference between these two zoning districts. Inside is light, outside is general. Um I did include the lot standards. It does meet the lot standards. Um then like you said, Byron, we get into the uses. Um I should also point that this is in the airport overlay district. that is going to really put a

limit on what goes in any zoning district at this location because it's in the airport overlay. That prohibits certain uses. Uh anything explosive. Um anything over 50 feet is going to get looked at real hard. So that really limits stuff, too. But these are all the permitted um primary uses um in the IG district. Um and yeah, it's it's all the it's all the big heavy ones. Um, so I will go forward a little bit more. There's also a whole bunch of special exception primary uses. These are all the really scary ones that would have to go to the BZA. So if anything like this tried to happen on this light lot, it's not permitted by right at all. It has to go to the BZA. So the worst case scenario stuff, right? The sanitary landfills, uh, the junk scrap metal yards. Um, I'm seeing what else here. a waste incinerator, anything like that would have to go to this the BZA. Okay, this is the airport overlay um restrictions. So, it has and I just kind of outlined it. Um basically, if it's an airport overlay and it looks even close to anything that is listed here or anything tall or smokeoky or anything like that, I get in touch with the airport right away. I let the person know who's applying that, hey, we need to get in touch with the airport and I'm not permitting anything until you provide me some sort of an approval from the FAA or the Indianapolis regional airport or whatever the power may be that that goes over this. Um so there's the height restrictions, there's also use restrictions and generally um the use restriction is that uh no use is allowed that creates electrical or radar interference with radio communication um or makes it difficult for flyers to

distinguish between airport lights and others. Um let's see or otherwise uh impair visibility. Um there's also a list of prohibited uses generally large population um things like auditoriums, amphitheaters, daycare facilities, concert halls, hospitals, major residential plats, um and major commercial or industrial plats with a residential component. So a lot of things that would mean, hey, if an airport, if an airplane crashed into this, we're talking about major population loss. Those things are not allowed in the airport overlay. Anyway, I'll move on past the doom and gloom of the airport overlay district. Um, I would also point out that any uses involving the sales, storage, manufacture, and/or distribution of gasoline, propane, or other flammable, toxic, explosive, radioactive, biohazardous materials um in a way that would jeopardize the health of airport occupants um bystanders or emergency personnel is also prohibited. Um, and then it even has another little bit where it says any use is not expressly identified above. Um, basically, basically it just wants to make sure that anything that could be potentially dangerous goes to the airport for approval. So, I'll just leave it at that. Um, and then it adds some uh special exception uses as well. Okay. Here is the site as it is planned. This is currently a residential site. Um, so there is a house. It is uh going to be converted to office. That's something we commonly deal with in the planning and building department. The building department has a whole process they go through for change of use to get um a house changed over to non-residential use. Um they have kind of a special process that they have to go through with the state and everything. So there is paved parking shown um as well as a couple. So the

house is in the front. There's some detention planned. Um and then there's also two uh storage buildings um along the southern border in the back and a large yard. So there are three paths and I just realized I didn't include a picture of the house. Um but it's pretty typical white farmhouse. Um so three paths moving forward. A favorable recommendation, no recommendation, or an unfavorable recommendation. And this would go to the board of commissioners. Um the staff recommendation is favorable. This is very much in line with our comprehensive plan. Um so you are certainly I'm allowed to add conditions to my approval, limit uses, anything like that. Um, and I'll turn it over to the petitioner here next. So, following the reszone, uh, Citrus Harbor will file a change of use ILP application which may be reviewed by the technical committee either formally or informally as part of a permit review. Um once the permit is approved and actually I talked to Chad about this um Chad Koganau the surveyor and we discussed that this would go back at the point at which those buildings are applied for. Um typically that's the thing that cues we need to see this at tech committee. It probably needs a drainage review, things like that. Uh or stone yards over three acres in size. Um okay. Once the permit is approved, construction activities may occur. remodeling the house from residential to to office use, installing large equipment lot and commercial drive and building the storage buildings according to the plan. Um so the criteria we consider is this in keeping with the comprehensive plan? Yes. Is this in keeping with the current conditions and character of the current structure and uses in the area? We've got warehouses

just to the south of here. So I would say yes. Um is this the most desirable use for which the land is adapted? It's I always find this one a really tricky question like ever you know it's a it's a strange question um but it is a a lot that this use works with it with limited changes so I would say for now right now today this works um what impact on property values across the county would this have not not negative I would say this is probably a positive um we do have RN Thompson just to the east of this that's doing a fairly similar uh thing. Um is this responsible growth and development? I would say yes. Um this is not the this is not a spot reszone out in the middle of of nowhere. This is um definitely pretty close to other industrial uses um and an expanding airport. So I would say um for those reasons, my staff recommendation was favorable. All right, I will turn it over to the commission to the uh petitioner. Um Kevin Buchai,

how do you say it? You'll have to say it. Do you swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. State your name.

My name My name is Kevin Buckheight. B U C H E I T and Kayla and Don both have my contact information if you need it. I'm a land use planner with the law firm Creek Devault. Their offices in Carmel. Um I don't know that I can add a whole lot more to the very extensive uh presentation that Kayla has made. Um, we we looked at the various zoning districts that were available to us and decided this is the one that probably fit the proposed use the best. Um, in an area where the the comp plan policy is for industrial development, you've been very lucky in getting a lot of IBP zoning for for much larger parcels, but this parcel is about just under 7 acres. Um, and I think that the IBP zoning district works a little bit better with larger parcels where you can have more uses and and more control on how the how the property develops. The idea behind the proposed use is that there is a lot of devel development going on in that area right now. And the the product that would be available at this location would be the heavy equipment that might be useful in developing that other real estate. um it it may not be a forever home for this use. And I dare say that if if um somebody with really deep pockets came along and offered the the petitioner an opportunity to retire with the the value of their land so they could assemble it with other property that would be considered. Um but the the overall built development that is proposed here is not a whole lot of ground cover that that is going to be such an investment and and and substantial construction on the property that it would preclude future

redevelopment of the site. um more along the lines of the the large warehousing and distribution and other uses that that you've been lucky enough to attract uh into this area in the Mount Comfort corridor. Um again, the the the findings that Kayla has put before you, I I agree with everything that she's stated there. Um this is a use that uh is is generally anticipated by the comprehensive plan for industrial uses in this area. Um the types of uses that are permitted in that district I think would be limited to what could actually the the 7 acre parcel could actually accommodate. Some of those are not going to fit on seven acres. Um, I hadn't really given any consideration to um types of uses that might step away from this under the forms of the commitment, but if you have ideas or thoughts about ones that you might want to see precluded from the site, um, we can consider that tonight and possibly move on with you. Um, I will Okay. Um, most everything I would say would be somewhat of a duplication of what Kayla has already presented and it's really in the statement of the 10th. It pulls forth the capital land policies and the zoning ordinance sections with references to page numbers and sections as well uh for your consideration. I pulled in a couple of maps there as well. um everything that uh Kayla so definitely handled um in her presentation. Um with that, I will um halt my presentation and see if you have any comments or questions.

400 is really becoming automobile traffic north and south. I'm I'm trying to figure out if you got heavy equipment leaving their Where is it going to go? What direction? This shows the uh the road classifications in the thoroughare plan. Red is major arterial and widening for scene. Green I believe is a major collector. So kind of like the next classification down from arterial. If I had to guess on um traffic direction pulling out of the lot, it probably go south because that's the area that seems to be developing more right now. But it could, you know, as things um build in well directly north is is airport property. So that there's nothing going to happen there, but with that being an arterial, there would be opportunity to go there. Um the the road crosssection is is um more of a a country cross-section I would I would say at this point but over time that too is going to change and I think that the um the right of way out there I we required

up to highway department um the highway department will make the determination as to whether additional rightway is needed. out there and at that point that would be part of the dedication um with the project. Okay. Any additional questions? All right. No questions. We'll move on to the remmonstrators if there are any. Do we have anybody here that will speak in opposition to this project? All right. Seeing none any discussion.

All right. Notice current currently we what we have the building to the south of 300 there is sitting empty. Uh the one on the corner there probably at 300 is setting empty. Right. those big buildings. So the building where this I believe is the polar um is that a cold storage and then this gets into the Amazon

area. So this is just, you know, right now the the warehousing and everything, this just kind of jumps just a little bit past to to the north. So, uh, just keeping that in mind. I mean that the comment about it not precluding future development because it's sort of a light amount of development on a 7 acre parcel made some sense but it also sort of maybe to reinforce in my mind that it could have been a special exception in the egg zone without any kind of a reszone required here. Although it would have been a a step to the BCA, I suppose

for something. Yeah, it would be a uh we'd be looking for a motion for a favorable, unfavorable, no recommendation or continue. All right. I'll make a motion for favorable recommendation for this to be reszoned IG with the sole purpose for equipment sales and rental. I second it. All right. It's been moved and seconded uh for the favorable recommendation to the reszone for the reszone to IG and specifically for the sole purpose of equipment sales and rental. Can the petitioner speak? You okay with a question against your Yeah. Okay. Yep. We can

Kevin Buckhead again for the record. I just wanted to make sure that I understood the the purpose behind your statement and you're limiting it to this specific use. The petitioner is okay with that. Okay. Okay. All right. So, the motion has been

Can we hang on just a minute? Um, if it's for the sole purpose, if that's the condition, it should probably be in the form of a condition. You only want to limit it to that to that purpose because when it comes to the commissioners, it's going to be a favorable recommendation if you didn't include conditions. That sole purpose part will not be included unless you make it a condition. All right, sense. We'll make it a condition that the sole purpose is for equipment sales and rental. Okay. So, you're going to um amend your motion as a condition and then who seconded it?

I did. I'll second. Are you okay with that? Okay. Right. Thank you. So the so the the motion that we have that has been seconded and amended is a favorable recommendation to the commissioners with the condition that it is for the sole purpose of equipment sales and rental. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Don, when you're ready, you can call the role. Mr. Hester? Yes. Mr. Hall? Yes. Mr. Long? Yes. Bulridge? Yes. Mr. Felt? Yes. All right. Approved. All right. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Yep. Appreciate it.

Okay. If they change at a later date to any other kind of condition, they'll have to come back to this board and to the commissioners. Yeah, thank you. That's what I thought. Okay, that concludes our hearing items. We'll move on to other business. And item number one is a UDO update. You have the um latest and greatest from uh HWC.

Oh, thanks. It is a uh estimated timeline of our project. I I did it with that is to um that's all. Thank you. Ensure that uh the commissioners and the council have communicated about where funding is coming from. So I will continue to work with both of those teams on that and also to establish who wants to be included on um meetings. Uh, right now where I'm at with this is scheduling a kickoff meeting to go over this schedule and things like that. I think Janine probably wanted to be involved, right? Yes.

And you can always copy me. She couldn't be there this, right? Yeah, you can always copy me. Do you want to be copied, Scott? Wendle? Yeah, me and Scott, I guess. And Janine. Rhonda, do you want to be copied on this? Sure. Is that okay with the plan commission? Yeah, that's all right. Okay. In the loop of what's going on, right? Yeah. All right. Thank you.

All right. Uh move on. Uh item number two is our data center committee. Um, a a small group of us met and discussed this last week to be prepared to help Kayla put together a recommendation. Um, I think we're okay to proceed with this with only five members here this evening. Um, you you good to proceed with this? I don't want to drag this one out if not if not at all possible. So drag us out then we probably should do a board for three months. So we can see beat us up.

We can see if the five of us can agree on this this evening then. And I know that Renee has looked at it. Janine has looked at it. Um I don't know about Derek and Lacy, but So did you want to present or you want me to talk through it? You can talk through it.

I'll talk through it. Okay. I'm not sure that I'm quite ready, but I will I'll take a crack at it. So, at our last meeting, we talked about uh putting together a committee of people uh people in the community along with some uh elected folks and some appointed uh folks like ourselves to study the impacts and what data centers might mean in our community and how they would fit with our comprehensive plan, our economic development and transportation, etc. Um at our last meeting we landed per our minutes to a 11 member committee I believe 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

11 plus two

11 plus two and the reason that we went 11 plus two was that um we felt like some of the uh appointed people if chosen uh per this recommendation kind of do some double duty with uh representing both BZA plan commission and um commissioners, plan commission, council, plan commission, all that stuff. So, uh that allowed us to bring in an additional two um community members uh what we were considering uh citizen members. Uh we looked at uh sort of the categories of these members uh to have somebody representing uh a and industry, somebody representing RBZA, uh a couple of citizen, four citizen members and then um a member from the commissioners and a member from the county council. Those two members we would consider non voting members. So that is what allowed us uh also with that plus two to bring in two additional community members into our 11 member committee. So the the c the county commissioner and the county council person would be there offering some suggestions guidance but would not actually participate in a vote for a recommendation that would come to this body. Uh we then had economic development representative uh what we are calling an industrial uh representative and that would be somebody sort of in the industry I suppose uh two members from the planning commission and then somebody that has some utility background representing um utilities in our community. We reached out to the community and asked for people to submit letters should they be uh interested in serving in this committee and we had a pretty good turnout. I think we had how many

20

25 letters. Uh from that we then sent out a crafted application that covered some of our standard um some of the standard county requirements for people to serve on committees and boards which would uh basically u document for transparency any um past convictions, prior convictions. uh get some references uh professional um experience and things like that. And with that application, I believe we then had 15 that came back of those 25. So from that, we had a group of us that uh met uh Scott, myself, Janine, Kayla was on the meeting, Rhonda was in the meeting. Who am I missing? That was all of us, I think. That then discussed all of those people. And what you have in front of you here is uh what that group of people arrived at. And we we picked people uh that we thought fit in. And again, what I mentioned, sort of did some double duty. There were some people that uh represented some different areas of our community. And we also were careful about trying to make sure that we had a good cross-section of our townships represented as well. And that was also not just the community members, but the elected folks and the plan commission BZA members also. So tried to get a a cross-section through there. All of those applications were sent to everybody here in email. So hopefully you took a look at that and you can look at these names and see if that falls in line with what you thought was a uh a good a good um selection for the committee.

So do we have any any discussion on what you see here in front of you? And I can go through and talk about each one of these and and why we selected what we selected. Looks like you did an excellent job to me. Okay. All right. Any additional comment? He thought we did an excellent job. Oh, okay. So, for the record, I I will step through. Maybe we should repeat that again. What did he say? No, I'm just kidding. Byron Holden said that we did an excellent job for the record. Um, is that in a minute?

So, what you have in your packet are our tenative picks. Um, and this isn't any like super definitive order. uh for the agriculture uh representative we we had a application from an individual named Kylie Bllock from Jackson Township. Um, Kylie is a farmer involved as a member of the public in the Henry County data center matter. Was also involved with Purdue Extension, has a degree in reverse logistics, waste management, and has an interest in environmental health, um, a people's first perspective. So, we thought that that individual covered a lot of bases for us. Uh she also has a history of being a respectful participant um both in favor of projects and in uh respectful remmonstrance. Uh for the BZA member, Lacy Willard offered uh her name to represent the BZA. She is also a you know a plan commission member and a practicing attorney. She represents Buck Creek Township. We have four citizen members. Our first citizen member that we looked at was Derek Adams who resides in Greenfield. He's a environmental health specialist with uh the with Hancock County. He's an employee of the county. Uh he has a degree from Butler University. Uh works a lot with environmental pollutant pollutants and has a knowledge of especially in local pollutants and of course is our county's environmental health specialist. Uh a citizen member. We had an applicant from a lady named Melissa Jackson who lives in Greenfield. Uh she works as a utility and rightaway coordinator with BFNS Engineering. Uh she does coordination of infrastructure considerations, utility impacts, and has a lot of experience we felt in

regulatory compliance. Uh citizen member Paul Overhouser uh resides in But Creek Township. Uh Paul's an attorney with mediation experience and has a lot of experience in the uh IT industry. Our fourth citizen member uh recommendation is Julie Sadam who resides in Buck Creek Township. She uh is retired but spent her entire career working in IT, working in data centers. Uh she is also very active citizen member that shows up here quite a bit and is a respectful um commenter on a lot of projects that we have. Uh the commissioner that came forward to serve as a non- voting member would be Janine Gray who is also uh the commissioner's representative on this body county commissioner and of course she lives in Shirley and has a very long history serving the county. The county council offered Mr. Clark Smith who resides in Center Township. Um he was appointed officially appointed by the council on April 8th. Uh Clark also has a very extensive uh background in agriculture and is a very active member in the a community as well. Economic development. Um Mary Zerbach met those requirements. We felt uh she resides in Green Township. uh she is a member of the RDC and um is a founder of a company works in commercial real estate and construction um consulting. So we thought that she has some experience there that could could offer to the committee uh to represent uh the industrial area to just kind of have some boots on the ground type knowledge. The applicant uh that was recommended here is Samuel Gallian uh who uh spoke at our meeting I think last month uh resides in Fort Bill Fortville, Indiana

um and uh from his resume and application indicates that he works, builds and maintains in data centers as a union electrician. So, we felt like that was going to be some very good um knowledge from sort of the the boots on the ground type activity of those types of facilities. Uh the two plan commission members that were suggested, uh Renee Oldm and then myself, Mike Long. Renee lives in McCordsville. I'm from Sugar Creek Township. um both um and of course Renee represents the um school corporation, so she would be doing some double duty there as far as representing the superintendent and any of their concerns with these types of developments. And then I also serve as the um as the BCA president as well. So we have a couple of members of the BCA there. Utilities is our last slot and we liked Philip Hayes from Jackson Township. Uh he is on the Ninstar uh board and is a former W Bash Valley Power board member. He's a retired engineer. Uh has a lot of background in uh with uh I guess some work with Rathon and its predecessors. So should have some good utility knowledge there that he could bring to the board. So those are our 11 + two members. So what we would like to do, I believe that we talked about this board meeting over the course of the next three months. Is that right? Four times or three times? Four times? Four times. Um we think that the format for this would be the first meeting will probably be short. Uh that meeting will be just sort of setting our uh pillars of discussion uh sort of what we want to accomplish through definitions and recommendations and things that we think that we want to voice towards this

committee. Uh we talked about trying to round up some experts um some various podcasts that we've all come across that these members could uh possibly look at. Uh we would these would be public meetings and we would probably be looking at some public comment times during these meetings as well. They'll likely be evening meetings and we would try to have them each on not the same day of the week so that we could make sure that if any of these members were not able to attend, we could um if they have some standing obligations for uh weekly meetings outside of this that we should be able to get everybody uh to attend there, which was also another reason for uh trying to get these these plus two citizen members in here to make sure that we have a a full committee at each of these meetings. So with that, what uh this board needs to do this evening is discuss this if you wanted to trade anybody out of this and with some discussion or we can have a motion to approve the status center committee as presented or it could be um approved as pre uh presented with any changes that you guys would like to discuss this evening.

Do you plan on having the meetings here in this? Uh I believe so. We haven't actually discussed where they would be. Maybe we did talk about that where we would I assume they'd be here, but yeah, they'll be advertised. I'm just thinking about the calendar. Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. Could Could I ask that we consider the resolution first to establish the committee? I'm sorry. Yes. I'm sorry. We do We do have to do this by resolution. I apologize. I I neglected to do that. So Rhonda has prepared a resolution and it's um she can go over that and it has all of the um the binding pieces of this committee and its responsibilities.

So I think this is probably the first resolution for the plan commission this year. So in numbering that are Kayla are you okay if I give this the number 2026-1 unless you have another way of numbering? Okay. Okay. So, this is resolution number number 2026-1, a resolution of the Hancock County Area Planning Commission establishing an advisory committee on of citizens to study the subject of data center sighting. Would you like me to read this by title only or would you like me to read the full resolution? It's not terribly long. Motion to read by title. Okay. Um, have a second.

Second. Okay. Okay, it's been moved and seconded to read by title only. All those in favor signify by saying I. Opposed, same sign. Maybe you can give a summary.

Okay, so summary summarizing that um there are three tasks that are in accordance with the state statute for this citizens advisory committee on data center sighting. One is to study the subject of data center sighting and recommend to the commission additional related issues or problems that are in need of study. Advise the commission. This is number two. Advise the commission as to how the sighting of a data center impacts different areas and groups within the community. and three, if invited by the commission to participate without the right to vote in the deliberations of the commission when the subjects of mutual concern related to data center sighting are discussed. Um it goes through the membership in section two which we've already discussed and um section three um is the section dealing with the chair and the vice chair which would be the two members of the plan commission that sit on the committee. So whichever one is not chosen as chair will be the vice chair. Section four asks for a report back to the commission by October 1st, 2026. And then section five discusses um the um volunteerism without pdeium and that meetings are conducted in an open they're subject to open door law and that the planning staff is directed to oversee the citizens committee and identifying uh viable candidates to serve on the citizens committee. Once you prove that approve this resolution then um can approve the members as present.

Yeah. So I need a motion to approve the resolution as presented. So moved.

Have a second. Second. Yep. All right. It's been moved and seconded to uh approve this resolution number 2026-1. 2026-1 as presented. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Oppose. Same sign. And then we'll have a sign a a copy here to to pass around for your signature. So, can I make one point about um Oh, and here's a copy for signature which has Scott's name. Okay. Correctly on this one. Um he needles. Oh, misspelled there at the bottom.

Yep. Sorry about that. Um, one one note that is on the data center committee potential members is on Clark Smith. There's a note that says appointed by council on 4826. Does that mean that the council appointed him to this? Yes, the county council voted and appointed him. Okay. Um, these appointments are by the plan commission. They're not appointments by the commissioners are not by the council. So I just want to note that these are plan commission appointments. Therefore, the removal could occur by the plan commission and not by those bodies. So just want to pointed that out that

even though that vote was taken by the council, that's not relevant here because these are plane commission appointments as per the statute. Yeah. But thank you for being so formal about it. So if anyone disagrees with Clark then well well it becomes an issue if something happened to Clark and he can no longer serve as county council. Yeah. Well yeah you held a vote but yeah it was to to decide which of the members. So yeah I I think that's I think both are in agreement that Clark would be great. So yep got the back.

So okay. Okay. So with that our resolution has been adopted. we will pass it around for signature and then that leaves any discussion on the potential members. Uh and that also means um although that both Renee and myself have agreed to serve uh the uh the PC on this committee, if one of you would like to uh be considered, we can certainly do that. Any discussion? Any motions on any discussion on any of the proposed members? Any motions?

Out of curiosity, was there a lot of interest in applying for these positions or Well, there were the 25 initial letters. Okay. And then of those 25, once we required them to fill out a formal application, we had 15 applications come in. Yeah.

Okay. And it was a good varied good varied background and the and the applications that came back were were thorough. I mean you have them in your packet here and uh they all of all of these folks were um very interested um and it was apparent by their the time that they took to to apply. We just need a motion if everyone's okay with the list. It's just a motion to just just a motion to approve the the members the members as presented.

Yeah. I I make a motion to approve the members as presented. Second. All right. It's been moved and seconded to um approve the data center committee members as submitted on the uh attached other business number two document. Uh those members would be Kylie Bllock, Lacy Willard, Derek Adams, Melissa Jackson, Paul Overhauser, Julie Sadam, Janine Gray, Clark Smith, Mary Zerbach, Samuel Gallian, Renee Oldm, Michael Long, and Philip Hayes. All those in favor signify by saying I. I oppose. Same sign. Motion carries.

Uh if any of those people that I just noted are here or listening, uh we will be in touch uh the office will be in touch with you to u with the with the meeting schedule. Like I said, it'll be over the next uh four months, three months. All right. Um, we'll move on to item number three, writing stable ordinance. All right. So, a couple months ago, um Janine Gray and I met with a uh resident who was interested in uh seeing that riding stable as an expanded use across more zoning districts in Hancock County. Um we did speak about this uh at the county commissioners briefly and um they turned it back over to the plan commission. So, it's back here again um for you to really give me some guidance on where we're going with this. Um I I have it is an interesting use to explore. Um I've put here where writing stable is on our land use matrix under commercial uses as a special exception in a rural res uh CR commercial, regional and institutional. Um, I've also included some similar uses that are under the agricultural zoning district like animal stables and livestock raising and breeding. Those are permitted in egg and some other zoning districts a little more uh liberally allowed to be either special exceptions or permitted uses. So, under definitions um you'll see that animal stables is I'm going to just read

through what these things are. uh the use of any structure with stalls or compartments and or land where animals excluding dogs and cats are sheltered and fed. Um so the use of a of a structure um that looks like it's meant to house animals and does sheltered and fed. Um and then we've got livestock raising and breeding which is a little bit more intensive. the production and upkeep of livestock for the purposes of sale including the feeding, sheltering, grazing and shipping of livestock, including the storage of all necessary um materials and equipment. And then we have this riding stable use which falls under uh that commercial uses. So it's an establishment that shelters and offers upkeep to horses for use by patron patrons and private owners. Stables generally include grazing pastures and land designated for horseback riding. So horse boarding facility uh something like that a riding you know something like along those lines. Um so it is different in that way from um uh animal stables and livestock raising and breeding. Um, we could also say uh an arena, something where riding lessons are. Um, things of that nature we would include as writing stable. Then I went into the zoning district descriptions. Um, these are all kind of a broad array of districts where we could foresee uh riding stables being permitted. Um, and I won't get into those too much, but everything up through our 2.5 is low density single family residential. Uh, land uses developed in suburban style subdivisions. Um, located adjacent to um existing developed areas. Um, anyway,

anything less than that is we start getting into rural housing options. Um, minimal residential development. Uh let's see in a district it says preserve the viability of agricultural operations. So we go from a where it's by all means preserve the a the viability of egg. That's the main purpose of that egg zoning district to um residential uh rural where it's minimal residential uh alongside egg uh rural housing to R1 where we're talking about unique rural uh housing options in a transition between rural areas and higher density residential and then R2.5 where we're really getting into subdivisions. Um and then commercial of course uh we have everything from commercial neighborhood where it's very much um you know your little down village downtown type places to a lot of area actually along US 40 and 52 is zone CN um to commercial community where it's a little bit midsize businesses um we start to see a little bit more autocentric uses um commercial regional which is typically a uh retained for around highway interchanges and institutional which is much more like schools and uh oh um airports, hospitals, big government or public leaning um areas, facilities. All right. So the writing stable use is something that we could foresee in a lot of different areas. Um it really depends on the direction that this board wants to go with it. Uh is actually more restrictive. Um we act I actually had the um resident that spoke with us um Heather um Hall who's here

tonight. She actually sent me McCordsville's standards and they're less restrictive than us on this which is interesting. Um but the riding stable uh use potentially could be in additional zoning districts here or potentially a permitted use even. Um so special exception of course goes to the board of zoning appeals. Um where uh the uh permitted uses would be just submit the proper paperwork and let's make sure you're permitted correctly. you talk to all the departments, you've got a good driveway, you've got good connection to utilities, things like that. And I don't want to speak for McCordsville, so I know I saw some regulations that were more um that were a little bit friendlier than ours, but I don't want to speak to their um exact regulations on this. So, I'm sure they'll um have something to say if we do choose to draft an ordinance. Um, it did make me look though into planning um, a little bit and how we deal with agriculture and how we went from one of the planning documents I looked at was an article actually from the 1950s. I've been on a kick with the older planning documents. Talks about kind of how we got started on some of these regulations. and it talks about how um not too long prior to that article being written, it was garages that were considered the outliers in residential areas that automobiles were considered noxious and they were not allowed in residential neighborhoods. Um it was really animals, livery stables and private stables were considered fine in more dense residential areas for quite a while. It was only after the dawn of the automobile and all of this stuff went on and a lot of a lot of planning and zoning goes back to the 1940s um as far as ordinances go then you start to see shifts and trends and things like that. Um but anyway, so it really depends on what this board wants to do and I'd love to turn this over to Heather um tonight who kind of brought this item to our

attention. Um but we're I guess would propose this move forward and this can be now or later um for for my purposes. Um Heather might have some other things to say about that. Um would be to draft an amendment to the zoning ordinance that would expand writing stable as an allowable land use special exception or permitted in more zoning districts such as R1, R2.5, CN, CC. Um in addition to where the use is currently permitted uh in agg RR nin. Um this is definitely a a use where um similar to um sporting events, riding ar uh recreation facilities. Um children that live in neighborhoods um might have the opportunity um adults also with hobbies have the opportunity to be involved um with equestrian sports and things like that. um in more zoning districts. So um I will turn it over to you um or if you want to ask me any questions or turn this over to Heather, whatever you want to do.

Yeah. How many people are asking for this because this just seemed to come out of the blue. Um so this was u this is not a super common request. Um but it is one that you know rather than we don't do use variances as an area plan commission. So, um, you know, if we have something happening and it's in a zoning district where this use isn't permitted, like our 2.5, the only option I really have is to come to this board and say, "Hey, is this still how you envision this use, or would you see this as being um a special exception in our 2.5 and maybe R1?

Our 2.2.5 would have like.3 acre home. How you going to put a horse stable and ride a horse around minimum?" But a lot of our land masses in more residential areas, they could reszone it. Correct. I mean, if if someone's zoned improperly or point 2.5, I don't know why it would be, but say it is and it's and it's being used actually for a Mhm. I would think they should be able to use if it's being used for a, why couldn't they just do a special exception since it's they're using it for a Let's see what we've got. It's just the 2.5 one's weird. I mean, I'm thinking of all these neighborhoods. You're not going to put

There's not a group stable. All right. So, anything yellow is our 2.5. Anything light, well, anything dark yellow. Anything light yellow is our one. already zoned that way today and and they can come in and get that reszoned egg. That's the current use. I mean, that's the current use.

That is the current use. We do not look at current use when it comes to our comprehensive plan. We look at the end use. So, let's look at what the future land use plan says. I'm probably going to wish I pulled up a different map. Yeah, this is a bad one to My coloring doesn't match everything right now. seems like the issue may not be the writing stables issue. It may be issue that our land is not zoned properly in a lot of places. That's probably the bigger issue we need to fix. Yeah, that's one of those odd things where we've got a lot of land that's already zoned residential,

but if the homeowner wants to zone it back to egg so they can have writing stables because they want to stay there years, why can't they? Well, I mean, they can I mean, we they have to come before us and we would have True and then the commissioners would have to decide, but I don't know why they would pass on it. I mean, it's a I mean, I think most people want more egg,

but this map was missed a tons of places. The the planning commission spent month after month changing for a couple years trying to correct things that did not work because they didn't you use the use. They just there was a lot of colors like the say uh the old 13 where those houses are at where the the lake sets that was zoned egg and then we tried to change it back to residential because that's what it was. But then there was a few people in there thought hey I don't want you to change mine so I might want to have a couple sheep. So, but I mean it it was year after year after year the planning commission voluntarily did what you're saying. So, we're in a difficult spot and I hate to get too too uh specific about the location of certain projects when it comes to things like this. And that's really one or two. you guys are allowed to say just no, let's wait until we do an more overall update um to the um UDO. Um and if that's the direction, that's that's fine, too. However, um this is just one where Commissioner Gray and I thought there might be a little bit more um or a little bit of wiggle room or desire to see um this is a use that maybe goes in um potentially more residential areas and is patronized by um suburban families.

So in I don't know if I own owned Well, I do own R2.5. So if I, you know, I could just say see coming in and say I want I want a stable. Although my HOA would say no, but but I mean I could come in and say I want a stable. It would go as a special exception. Yeah, I have to come. But they better vote for it for me. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I guess the thing is it's it's interesting, right? So it's like they're they could be pet, you know, horses, they could be pets, they could be agriculture, they could be pasturing animals. whatever, but it's the writing stable. It becomes a little bit of a business, right? So that's why if it's in a residential area, it's got to have some oversight. So it's so I I mean, at the very least, I wouldn't see any issue with with making, you know, just dropping the S in for R1, R2.5, the CN, and the CC. I mean, that's um seems reasonable. I mean, if you want to put a riding stable on your R2.5, your neighbors probably ought to get notice, you know. Well, yeah, but and then

it's like a home occupation at that point. I think just seems crazy to me. I mean, this is messed up. I mean, definition of hiding stab shelters and offers up cute. Riding stable is what I'm asking. There's It says different. It's right there. definitions riding stable establishment. It's specific to horses, I think. So, horses. There's an animal stable up above. Me, riding means you've got multiple there and you offer riding, right?

We're talking about is someone wanting to put a single building for their own personal horse. Yeah. That's not a writing st. Uh 10 years ago, I was on a committee to to do a riding stable for the veterans to come out and ride for their PSD. and the BZA approved uh oh just south of on Jim Road I think it's just north of 200 there's a house there that teaches writing to individuals and they've been through approval by the BCA that's the only two I know of off top my head

I mean I guess that what yeah I mean just to keep just to keep horses you know you have that covered under the animal stables livestock grazing, you know, up above. Yeah. I So, so you're looking for some direction here this evening to oh to draft an amendment to the zoning ordinance or would you or would you just look to for some direction to maybe we we vote on a revision to the use matrix next month maybe? Um which either one it's about it's both both of those are an amendment.

They're the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um and I'm like I said I'm happy to turn it over to Heather either before or after you make that decision. Um, yeah. I mean, if she she's here, she's suffered through. So, we can we can let her talk for sure. So, see if we can learn a little maybe maybe you'll get some more comfort as to why this is not crazy. It's still crazy doing I'm putting stuff. Come on up. And this is not a hearing, so we don't need to swear you in, I don't think. But you can you Do you swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth? the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do. Please state your name. Spell your last name.

Heather Hall Kanig. H A L L-E K O E N I G. Okay, go right ahead.

Greetings. There's nothing too strange about horses. I can tell you that right now, friends. Um, my name is Heather Hall Kaneig. I have 40 years of experience as an equestrian. We are a dying breed. I am here today to seek support for a 10acre farm. I started writing when I was 8 years old. It made me who I am today. It made all my friends who they are today as well. This is a classic sport. This is what our military used to do. This is an Olympic sport and I will do everything I can to support it for the next generation. With my 40 years of experience, I really want to take my working career and give something to the community. I've owned horses my whole life until the last two years, which is where I found I couldn't own one anymore. Why? All of the horse stables are closing. We are a dying breed. Why? There's some zoning issues and things like that. That's the honest truth. You have the legacy farm owners who are selling. They're moving to Ocala. They've aged out. No one can afford to buy their properties that are zoned correctly. They get developed into subdivisions. I have been fortunate enough to be able to save my whole life. and my husband supported me so we can be able to buy a 10acre farm and I can give to the next generation and give to current amateurs who need a place to keep their horses. I've boarded along people who have owned $50,000 horses, $100,000 horses, $200,000 horses. We've got no place to go. I gave up my last horse that I import imported from Europe, my star performer

that I had taken to the national level. He was my best friend. I had to let him go. There was no place left for me to go. I started boarding out in Muny, driving an hour back and forth as a last resort of a place to keep this horse. I had to let him go because everywhere's closing. The trainers that taught me everything I know, which is a very deep profession, they've aged out. What am I going to do about it? I am here today to say I'm willing to put all my money on the line to build a stable. First and foremost, it'll be a place where I can keep my own horses. I specialize in young horse training. Most of my career has been in hunter jumper and the most recent six years in DR. I have gone to the national level with horses I have trained myself from nothing. That is my goal. I want to see other amateurs have a way to continue to do this sport too. With 40 years, I've learned a lot of things. I've learned about horse care. One of the things I would suggest that you would have in your ordinance would be just like any other county. Generally, you only offer on the first two or three acres of property or even five a couple horses and then one horse per every 5,000 square feet or every acre in addition. So, for my 10 acres, I would be having seven horses as I have a house on it as well. Um, we would not be having a horse on uh a third acre. So, um that's impossible as they need uh grazing land. You got about one acre per horse. So, that would be my suggestion to you to put that in there that you would have a number of acres per horse, things like that. Um, I will be honest that the 10 acres I'm looking at is of particular interest. You might say to me, "Well, why don't you just go out somewhere else where there's a course I'd love to, but to afford this,

my husband and I are employed. My husband has to go downtown for work, and I have to go to the Fort Ben Harrison area. This particular lot on 700 North is a perfect location location location for us to get to work and still be around to feed our horses, turn our horses out. I mostly work from home, but I do have to go into my building. So, um, the location is super great. We've been looking for four years, four years. Um, we don't have three and a half million to buy 80 acres. We've knocked on all the doors of people with parcels for sale, seeing if they'd give us 10. something that was affordable, something that's also manageable. Um, we haven't had any luck. I have lost offers on places due to zoning. I made an offer in Franklin on a lovely property, but it had to go through the variance process and it sold out from under me because the property owners didn't want to wait. Um, this particular lot, um, the selling realer is waiting for this decision because obviously they don't want to take it off the market for me for month after month after month. I've turned this into my part-time job. Um, researching all of the requirements, septic, I've gone through all that. We've been out looking for drain tile two weeks ago. I've now moved on to the sewer research. I'm hiring an engineer for plans. Um, I have a huge document of my timeline here, which is just my post drainage tile um, plan. I'm very serious about this and I've learned a lot along the way. Um, I can't believe the hurdles I've had have to go through just to have horses and now I understand more why more farms aren't popping up. You asked about the interest. There's a huge interest from your Range Rover driving crowd for places to have lovely horses with someone like me who has 40 years of experience that knows everything about collic and whiteline disease and currently I ride on the side professionally and my clients really appreciate me. You might also ask, "Well, Heather, won't this be a subdivision next door someday?" It might

be, but I have ways to mitigate that risk. I want to involve the community. And I also actually value not being next to shooting ranges. I had a client uh last year. I do um professional freestyle, musical freestyles for clients, and this client had a bullet whisp by her while she was practicing her freestyle in her arena. Um, so to be honest, I don't mind being a little bit more suburban. Um, I do ride at a place that's on 71st in Johnson inside 465 and they have a very successful program there and they're loved by the community. So, I believe I can find the same success. I really would love to be part of your community. Um, I hope that you might welcome me here. Um, we're great citizens. I have a great project to offer and a beautiful property um that I think would beautify your area. Any questions? Okay. So, I know it's on 700 North. I'm guessing you're in Verdon Township is what you're looking at.

Um, it was in Buck Creek and it's just south of 5538 McCordsville. It's the lot the lot straight south of there. It's only one lot south of the McCordsville city line. Means 7 West or It's North 700 West. Oh, 700 West. Okay. I was doing 700 North. Okay. But Black Creek. Yeah, you did. And I Is that Is that zoned? Would you know what that's zoned?

Yeah, it's R2.5. It's currently in soybeans right now. So, it's 10 acres. It's all farmland there. And the property next door, u Madison owns that. And we've become friends. She really wants this property next to her cuz she also is going to have goats. The previous owner of her property had mules already. So, for me, it was kind of crazy that I couldn't have horses there. Um, so yeah, she her last owner had mules. Um, so obviously it sounds like it's not zoned correctly, but um the but to get to the point where I think might help us, uh, you you mentioned acreage, how many acres should be minimum for a riding stable if we would put that in there? 5 acres, 10 acres, what's the minimum? What would you

Yeah. Um, I've I've seen stables as little as three acres, which is personally not what I would do. Um, you generally want a solid one acre per horse. Okay. If you don't, you're looking at overg grazing. you know, your grass isn't growing well. You're looking at mud. Um, but in addition to the size of property, um, you also have to consider the way it's structured. So, this particular property is on Crosby and Brookton clay. So, I have to worry about water. Okay. So, I'm going to put in um, professional dry lot by OTS Construction, which they take some of the top soil off so that the horses have a place to go when it's wet. Um, that's actually critical for horses. So if you had a bigger property, you might do less of that um because you have more sacrifice lots. Um but for me, I will have official dry lot. So the size can really vary. For me as as just a couple owning a property, which we're not going to employ anyone, 10 acres is a lot to mow um in a lot for the number of horses I would have. So 10 acres is kind of the max I'd like to go. So, so it sounds like either three or five acres would be the middle.

For me personally, I would say five. Um, but I also have friends that have three acres. I know. But if I'm doing which I understand R2.5 in some are not properly zoned, correct? But if we're going to allow any zoning district, which is what we could do, um then and make it as but at least we need to give some guidance to the BCA to say, "Hey, it has to be at least five acres." Mhm.

Yes. And the one thing I'd recommend is a lot of the other counties, they have this already written up. In fact, McCordsville, um which Kayla alluded to, um they have one right here. If I was just two lots north, this wouldn't be an issue at all. Um it's actually 154.00 0 or 077 farm animals. They're already included in here. They call stable stalls. Um that's very European. Um and they allow one horse on the first two acres and then one horse thereafter for every acre. But um in you know every county has that they have a count of horses that's allowed and it's roughly the same. Yeah. So you have a bench line a benchmark. So yeah, I think maybe we just need to give the staff some direction to um maybe draft draft this amendment and further define writing stable and and do the uh the minimum acreage and the number of animals per acre. Mr.

President, since egg attorney uh Steve Ellbury is here, can we ask him some questions? Hey, attorney. Well, that's what he does. If he's I don't do that aerial law. If he's willing. Are you willing?

The one thing I I guess I would say sitting back there listening, Kayla, can you help me here a second? So, on that land use matrix, can you find aggra business type one? somewhere in my mind when we drafted that horseback riding is allowed and it's and it's more s's than what you've already got. So the problem with your aggra business is it's got to be um subject to an exist but if there's already a farm there if it's 10 acres and they've got mules or whatever horseback riding allows the public to come as type one and it's permitted in a special exception in a whole number of those that already fit

wherever it went but that may be something to consider. It's not it's not defined like a riding stable, but horseback riding was something we specifically included for that very reason to allow this to be not in your neighborhood, but in places that are zoned R2.5 that are already agg, you know, there's a lot of that in our county. There we go. So, uh maybe I'm losing my mind, but I I thought that was already a special exception in a number of those places. Sorry. If she's already got a farm and it's just going to have horseback riding for the public or however it's going to be that's already type one is special ex and two are both special exception in R2.5. So it already is to some extent, Scott. And you're

that's true. You have to check and see if horseback I'm pretty sure horseback riding is in the definition of type one, but you may not have to reinvent the wheel if you can approve it one already. We had a lot of fun when we drafted that ordinance. Well, yeah, yeah, it's a it's a good point. I mean, it the a piece of it I wasn't overly concerned about because of the of the aggra business. And we did have a horseback riding stable that I went through the process last year. It didn't end up going in, but it was actually in an A. And that's one of them where if any of these is going to be permitted, it's it needs to be an A. Good grief. If if you're not going to allow people to ride horses and all their horses and other Yeah, horseback riding is is in the definition.

This does talk about it as the definition. However, hold on. I just This is one of those I want to check all everything before I say anything. So, I just threw this He did it. That's his fault. But I remember that being something that we included as Okay, it is in definition as a writing staple. And that was a good catch. So, agra business type two potentially. Okay. It's the same deal. That's already a special exception. So, you don't And then I know we have a list of that might help.

It's the it's the it's the business part of it that makes me feel like the special exception is still would be applicable. Um, if it was just a if it's an animal stable, that's a little bit different where it's, you know, permitted by right in the A districts. But when you're bringing it the business piece into it, I think there there needs some be some public notice. So Mike, do you remember the one you approved on Jim Road for writing for education

on Jim Road? It's not coming back to me. Jim Road. Yeah, just ju on Jim Road. Just south of 200, there's a whole bunch of great big like pine trees. You can't see anything. And there's a driveway that goes back into the woods. Oh, yeah. And there's a house. Yeah.

And the daughter taught riding lessons there. And it must have not have been in egg cuz she had to come in for a special exception to get it approved. So we might have maneuvered, you know, animal stables with this and that. I bet you it was R1. They blanketed Sugar Creek Township with R1 for zoning. I don't know why. So we probably did it under the animal like under the stable map 2007 they you know I know they just said let's approve the map and then we should have looked at a lot closer.

I don't know that I was You think that was in 2007? I don't think I was on the BZA then. No, not the writing state. It was Oh, see. We're talking about the map. The map was 2007. Okay. Anyway, it'd be interesting to look up what we did. Yeah. I I mean I'm certainly open to a a revision and I think that the direction that I would would offer would be you know starting with the special exceptions but maybe we could we need to check our cross reference to aggra business for the A zones.

Yeah, it might. I'm sorry I didn't catch that. We wouldn't necessarily need the special exception in the A because it could follow as well maybe we should have it just to double check to make sure. I'm just a little confused why we're doing the commercial use. I mean if she's looking for 2.5 it's she's saying it already is 2.5. Yeah. So I think why didn't she just come to the BZ we might be able to pursue the aggra business. Yeah. Well, for this spec specific case, but yeah, because hers is a, right?

So, but but I do think that she brought up some interesting points about the the number of animals per acre, which I don't think we talk about anywhere that we should probably because we've had that issue. I remember we had a case not too long ago where somebody had a ridiculous amount of animals on like a 1acre parcel or something. It was unsafe. Yeah, she gave some great advice on that makers. I think those are things we looked at. Yeah. On the BZA, you kept seeing that one One lady kept bringing it in because there was several horses in a small area and she thought they were being abused. Yeah.

Well, and maybe we just need to reference some sort of I don't know, there's some Oh, the board of animal health or something just needs to be referenced or something to control some of those things. Yeah. No, we can Yeah, let's look into that. And that maybe is one that we can look into a little bit more than is just a Yeah, I mean it maybe, you know, when you talk about it sounds like McCordsville has a a number of animals per acre, but we're probably not the right body to determine that. You know, it's like it's probably more of the board of animal health or something like that needs to be referenced. Yeah. Something. Yeah.

There's a very very large surplus of horses that they're too expensive and people cannot find a place to put them. Oh, no. I can't let that one go. that's already that already is in our zoning ordinance and it's IDM and that's whether it's rises to the level of a confined feeding operation. So you'd be very careful with that because IDM already regulates that and it cites that in our zoning ordinance. So numbers of animals I'm guilty of that. I've got 40 head of use in my barns that I'm laming out right now on a very small area but that's because they're inside so they have babies and then when the weather warms up they go out back on pasture. But uh on per acre areas that's regulated by IDM. So you're correct. This is not the appropriate place. And I'll sit down and be quiet.

You're fine. I can say just one more thing. Um I really really appreciate you guys hearing me tonight. I know I'm this weird rando equestrian. Um but um I will say this, it sounds like we may have a path. Um I just do want to emphasize that the owner, this is a vacant lot right now. It's in it's in beans. Okay. Um and I know they're not going to wait on me forever, right? Because they want to sell the lot and they don't want to tie it up with me who's him hauling around forever. So, um, but having said that, I very much very much respect, um, the processes and I'm I'm glad I could bring some things tonight that that may help other people, too. And, um, if I can be of any help, uh, let me know. Thank you. Yep.

All right. So, the staff, you'll take a take a look at this definition and maybe bring something back to us on that. Okay. We'll move on to item number four which is our plat committee appointee which we continued from last month to this month and here we are with only five members this month which makes the reason we continued it before was we were afraid that we were um we were with six members and we didn't think that we could have an adequate vote. So, um, unless you guys all feel comfortable that we could nominate somebody and all five of us vote yes, um, we may be well suited to How many applicants are there now? There's still the three. Um, three. There was two last.

Well, there's always been three. There's Dr. Hitchcock, um, Dr. Hitchcock, uh, Bill Bolander, and Arlo Smoke were our three applicants for that. So, you have the same person in mind. I have no idea. Um, you know, I guess it wouldn't hurt if you if somebody feels strongly and wants to make a nomination, we could see how the vote goes this on that, but otherwise we can continue it to next month when we hopefully would have a full board or at least are much closer to a full board. For sure. The plaque committee would like to have another member.

This is what April Yeah, this is April. It would put us to May. We'd be getting close to half the year without somebody, right? So, I'll nominate Todd Hitchcock. Okay. So, we have a nomination. Do we have a a second to nominate Dr. Todd Hitchcock? Is that the superintendent from Yeah, he's the superintendent of Morristown schools, I believe. Oh, Shelby. I thought it was Shelby County. It is Shelby County Eastern School District. But he's a resident I believe of New Palestine or Sugar Creek Township. Um

400 West in New Palestine. Yeah. Um the PLA committee is kind of regulated by school district which kind of implies that there's some in Creek Township. all the plat committee members township. Yeah, it's Yeah, it's but it's the new Palestine School District is what it is um what you're nominating for. No, it's Sher Creek Township. Yeah. Yes. But it's by school district, right? The plan is Yeah. Yep. So, did our nomination fall flat?

Yeah, I do a motion to continue. It looks like we're split. Okay. I thought that's who you wanted. Well, we have a we have a nomination for Dr. Hitchcock. Uh, if we want to go to a vote, I can second that. Uh, as the chair, I'll second Dr. Hitchcock. So with that, we can we can take a vote. I can we can call the role on that on the nomination of Dr. Hitchcock for the PLA committee. Yes, Mr.

Yes. Yes. Well, if we're going to we can get it passed, I'll say yes. Yes. So five to zero. So that all right. Well, we did it. We got a plat committee member, Dr. Hitchcock. Um Kayla, I have he had emailed me. I can email him. I'll copy you and then we can you can give him the lowdown on the next meetings and all that stuff. So brother's already.

Okay. Uh, last item, item number five, home occupation standards ordinance update. I emailed some easy revisions to our home standards to Mike and Janine and I don't think I heard back. So, there's not much to report on that. Um, you sent me something on that. It's been a while. No, but it's okay. We can I don't have anything new. Um, but it was something I was curious if you wanted me to look at or if we want to keep doing what we're doing at the BCA, we can do that, too. I apologize. I'll look at that again. I I think I do remember seeing that. Was that a while ago? It was a while ago.

Okay. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I don't have anything new to add. I just wanted to mention it just in case there was um any feedback or thought on it or we just need to hold off on that. I'm okay with that. Yeah. So to kind of let you guys know, so so this whole UDO thing, as you know, we originally thought we were going to do this UDO um update, which was is the reformat project, but we thought we were going to try to add a couple of things in to that first approval of the reformat, but then we thought we'd also try to update the um home occupation and

accessory dwelling units. Since we're kind of dragging out a little bit and we're still not there yet, we thought about maybe looking at home occupation, updating it under our normal process, and then it would end up in the reformat project that way. But it would again um it would follow our previous or current process, which is the idea still in keeping with the idea of of the uh reformat project. So, but um yeah, put it keep it on the agenda uh for next month and I'll I'll review that and check in with Janine as well. I think that's everything. Do we have anybody uh that would like to say anything? Any public comment? It's not on our agenda, but um I think we that's something I wanted to also it reminded me. Do do you guys want to have a public comment section on our agenda where the public could comment on just anything they would like to come and comment to

only if it's on the agenda? You you will let if somebody raised their hand other business. I guess that's where I was going is do you want to have it on the agenda as a standing agenda item so people know that they could come and speak on any matter? I mean I would want it to be an agenda item. I don't want to hear someone coming. I don't want to have a whole bunch of people come and just talk about data centers or something. You know what I'm saying? That's not that's not before us. If somebody wants to speak, they should contact the office and get on the agenda. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. They have a motion to adjurnn. Second.

Moved and seconded twice to adjurnn. All those in favor signify by saying I. Oppose. Same sign. Thank you. Yeah.