Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Wow. How you liking it so far? Prove your driver. Dennis always ready. How you liking it so far? Paycheck. I've been in your shoes.

Yeah. For the city of Greenville. Not so much this part of his shoes, but the enforcement part of his shoes. recordings on. All right. Good evening. Call the meeting to order. The September 25th meeting of the board of zoning appeals. We have all members present this evening. Uh so all all five and our attorney. Um, some order of business here. Um, we ask that you please turn off your cell phones and any electronic devices or annoying noise makers that you may be carrying around in your pockets. Uh, our first order of business will be the adoption of last uh, month's meeting minutes that were submitted electronically.

I make a motion we adopt those minutes. Second. Then moved and seconded to adopt the meeting minutes as presented. All those in favor signify by saying I. I

oppose. same sign. I liked the format, Dennis, by the way, of the meeting minutes. Easy to read. So, thank you for that. All right. All uh I'd like to advise everybody that your testimony this evening is being recorded and be taken under uh oath. We request that anyone speaking uh do so only when called upon. We would request that anyone wishing to speak um be sworn in by our attorney uh to my left. Uh when you come up to speak, you raise your right hand and be sworn in. All persons speaking will be asked to give their full name for the record, spell their last name so that we have accurate meeting minutes. Uh please speak directly into the microphone so that uh we can pick everything up for our um digital recordings. Kayla or Maria, either one will be giving a staff report uh for each case and then the the petitioners are then given I might be reading from the wrong document here. I guess that's right. Sorry. This is the right document. Thanks. Okay. Start again. The the for those speaking, the petitioner will be given seven minutes to give their presentation. That is followed then by a collective seven minutes for the remmonstrators to speak. We offer government officials wishing to speak three minutes to address any of their potential issues. And then the petitioner is given a final 3 minutes for rebuttal. Uh you'll be given a 2-minut and a 1 minute warning as your time is expiring. Uh we would like to ask that everybody uh conduct themselves in a civil manner. And if you can't or won't do that, we reserve the right to ask you to leave. Uh based on a current change in the state statute, you uh need to be notified that this meeting is being recorded and streamed for public viewing. And by participating, you acknowledge that your image, voice, and comments may be captured and made publicly available. This meeting has

been properly noticed in accordance with Indiana Code 514 1.5. Thank you. And with that, we will have our uh item number one, Mr. Breeze with a special exception for a home occupation. So, the first item on the agenda is Brandon Breeze uh petition. This is located at 2541 South Sunrise Drive in Buck Creek Township in a residential 2.5 zoning district. The petitioner, Brandon Breeze, is requesting a special exception to allow a home occupation along with two uh variances under our home occupation standard. One is to permit the home occupation to take place outside of the residence. And the second variance is to allow outdoor storage. [Applause] The petitioner provided a site plan that is also located in your folder. In the site plan, it shows a 24x36 detached garage along with two mini barns. These were all pre-existing prior to the purchasing of the properties of the current property owner. Uh during the pre-filing meeting, it was discussed with the petitioner that there will be um no additional expansions of the home occupation and all business activities will be conducted in all the um existing detach structures. Um and this will um require a variance since in our home occupation standards um a home occupation must be located within the primary structure. Um so due to the fact that these um these existing barns and detached garage is where the home occupation uh will take place in. That's why um that is um the first

variance. Uh the home occupation is a lawn care business. The petitioner will utilize a pickup truck, three trailers, two lawnmowers, a weed eater, and other small yard maintenance tools. Um because some of these materials will be um displayed outside, this requires a additional variance. So, this petition first was a violation. Um, the Hancock County Planning Department on June 17, 2025 received a complaint regarding the subject property in which the um zoning inspector went to verify the following day on the 18th and took some pictures um displayed below. And on June 23rd, a letter of zoning violation was sent out to the property owner um Brian and Terry Breeze. Then in August of August 27th, 2025, Brian and Brandon Breeze came in for a pre-fing meeting to discuss what all would be required in order to bring their property into compliance. Um, the planning staff determined that the property would need a special exception in two variances from the home occupation standards. In our home occupation standards, it states that oh all um home occupation may be permitted subject to the board of zoning of appeals approval of a special exception. And in those standards, it also states how outdoor storage or display shall um there there shall not be any um exterior storage of products, equipment, materials, and anything

related to the home occupation. Um since the petitioner has stated that there um trailers would be parked outside of um these structures that's why the variance um is required for that um and as I stated before that the home occupation would take place into these um detached structures um and in our standards it states how this shall um be located in the dwelling unit. So that's why um the second variance is necessary. Um after reviewing the scope of work for the home occupation, uh we determined that there's um no other concerns or undermet standards um identified. There was um the conversation about lot coverage and we did the calculation for the property and in our standards the allowable percentage of lot coverage is 35. They currently sit at 22%. Um please note that the gravel is not included in the lot calculation. Um in our standards it's include of imperous surface. Gravel is not considered as an impervious surface. Therefore that um gravel does not count into that calculation. Um the petitioner has stated that there will be no um employees besides just him. Um and in our land use matrix as um you can see any zoning district a home occupation does require a special exception. Therefore they are here tonight requesting that we did we did receive one letter of remmonstrance that is located in your packet. Um we did also receive a letter of support. However, that is not in your packet because it did not um meet the deadline of submitt.

I do have a question for you. Yep. Um so you said there was a letter an enforcement letter sent out, correct? I'm sorry. Oh, about zoning violation letter. Yes. Mhm. Okay. Um did they respond proactively? Uh so or did it take more than one communication? Just one just one letter was sent out. So, they contacted you promptly. Okay. Thank you. Anything else? All right. I'll have the petitioner come up. Are you done? No, I was going to give my recommendation. Okay. I thought you were done since you were asking questions. I interrupted her. That's my fault. I apologize.

No, you're good. Um so the recommendation staff is giving um since there are three um three different um requests. The first one is for the special exception to allow the home occupation um staff is um recommending approval with the conditions. Uh, the petitioner shall seek and obtain an IOP permit um and shall be renewing that um each year and that the BCA reserves the right to revoke um or modify disposal exception if um it determines to be a public nuisance. Then the recommendation for the home occupation to have outdoor storage. Staff is recommending approval with the condition that the outdoor storage of materials relating to the home occupation um be contained in the back end of the property where um the detached structures are located. Um and it shall be maintained at all times in a neat and orderly manner. Uh the other cond condition is um the petitioner shall um install appropriate screening whether that be a privacy fence or a gate um to effectively conceal the outdoor storage from public view. And the last recommendation um for um having the home occupation be located outside the primary dwelling unit. Um staff is recommending approval with the condition that the home occupation shall not expand um without the approval of the board of zoning of appeals. Are there any other questions?

Look like you had a question. Nope. Um, do it do we have a square footage since we're exceeding 500 square ft. Uh, do we have a current square footage? It would be the square footage of the um detached buildings which are displayed on the site plan. But as a total, we would have to calculate it. That's what I'm wondering is what that total is. It's the 20. Is it the 24 by 3? We can ask them. 24 by 36, I think. So typically in a home occupation special exception, we've also seen a few other requirements. One, limitation on the number of clients that may visit the site. Did we take a look at that or would we did you consider that?

Since um the petitioner has stated that they wouldn't have any clients on site or any employees, we didn't um feel like we needed to put that condition. Got it. And we also have a provision that the special exception becomes null and void if operations cease for 12 months. We we did talk about that and um uh we just didn't put it on there. Um but you guys are more than welcome to put that on there. Got it. And because this is a landscaping, our um esteemed former member of the BZ always reminds us that we should talk about burning on site. Is there a preclusion from this partic from that that we ever look at? Um as of right now, the petitioner hasn't said that they would have burning on site. Great. Thank you. Question.

All right. If there are no more questions, I hand it off to the petitioner. Thank you. We have a somebody is the petitioner here. All right, raise your right hand. Swear you in. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Please state your names and then spell your last name for the Brian Lee Breeze. B rees Brandon Lee Breeze B rees seven minutes and I'll let you know.

Okay. Good evening everyone. Um thank you for allowing us to come in and present um our request. Um this is my son Brandon. He started working with a guy in our old neighborhood at 14 uh helping on landscaping and he just kind of developed into where he really liked that work and he continued to work with Tom um through high school. Um it's ironic that Goodton's on the meeting tonight or agenda tonight because they came into school and gave a presentation. I believe it was his junior year and he came home and just wouldn't stop talking about like, "Dad, that's what I want to do. That's what I want to do." So, um, with that said, he just turned 19 in April. He's a unique kid. He's a hard worker. Um, he would get up with Tom, be out the door and on the road at 7. U, they wouldn't get home till 6:00 or, you know, dark a lot of times. And he's maintained that work ethic. Um, with us, we lived in the Havens. It had an HOA. We had the we had three trailers there that we parked in the back. The HOA gave us a couple of letters and it was when his equipment had parked out front for just a brief moment. We always tried to keep it in back and then um this is really before he was in the business to be you know in the business per se but um our road our our home was visible from 100 south. So that's where I'm going to plead some of my ignorance was we had an HOA that was very critical on you know boats, no nothing. Um, and they prohibited even commercial vehicles with lettering. I just when we moved into this neighborhood, it's it's platted in 79. Our home was built in ' 86. There's a lot of different things, motor home or travel trailers, um, some boats, different things through there. There's even a residence that has gravel around back uh, like we did. So, I with

it not having an HOA and being built in 79, I just didn't think the covenants would We put a gravel drive back. We didn't add any buildings. We didn't add any square footage. It's just my son. We had a conversation. We moved there in December. We had a conversation with him in March. I told him, "You should go work for Tom again this year. You're 19. Let's get another year under your belt." And he kept saying, "Dad, I want to go on my own." And I said, "Okay." He had a few counts. And then he talked to a guy, was it Trent? Trent Kchner.

Trent Kchner was wanting to sell his business and he offered Brandon to buy it uh over a percentage every month he pays him. And Brandon came to me and said, "Dad, I want to do this." Brandon's fully insured. He pays six over $600 a month for all of his equipment, his vehicles. Um he pays me for his truck payment. Uh so he pays over a thousand a month on his own for that. He's paid for all the filing for this. Um, we were just trying to help him get started and with the variance because it's a lawn care business, he's gone really from the addition. Uh, gets up early and comes back. He may come home for lunch. Um, I know in the remrants there was he was in there all the time. Ironically, in our section there's 22 homes. He's done work for 11 of them. He still maintains some of the homes for uh that are clients where you know he's done mulch work, gravel work, whatever. But he he mows uh three properties right down the street. And so if it wasn't his vehicle, you're going to see another company uh vehicle there. There are other um homeowners that have mowing companies that come in um as well. So, you know, ironically, also the other thing that's funny is it's called Sunrise Drive. I told my wife, well, we're going to see if he rises or fails, but um I wanted to give him the opportunity to go out on his own because of his dedication and um his he has a lot of pride in his work. So, um we got the we had a neighbor that um they they said that our backyard was visible and they they didn't want to see the equipment. Uh the neighbors behind us, Rob and Karen Walk, have put up a fence to where really now everybody has a fence. And other than just down the drive, I don't really I've taken pictures to where I don't see how anybody there's any visibility of his

equipment right now other than down the drive. We had a gate that we were going to put up and put a cover on it to block that, but we stopped everything when we got the notice. Um I think sir, you had asked about the response time. We got the notice. It was sent out the 23rd. I called and talked to Darla Smoke at the time and she told me I got the complaint. We talked about it and uh she said, "But I'm retiring in two weeks." Um I called back and found out that Don Parker was who handled it. So we were proactive on getting the information because it takes 10 days to file. Uh we have to send notices in the paper and notices out. It just ended up that we were in in August and we made the deadline, but there was a lot of work to put together. This is the first variance I've applied for

two minutes

and I brought him along through the whole process. So, he's been there through it as well. We we've done nothing but try to be proactive. So, um I hate to hear that we have neighbors that are unhappy because we've came in with nothing but the intent. We our house had weeds grown over it. an older lady lived there and went into an assisted living and um we've we've refurb we've redone everything and actually Brandon has but um you know all brand new landscaping we've done everything in that home we can we're getting ready to paint the outside so we're trying to improve property values Brandon with helping 11 out of the 22 has also improved the neighborhood uh in terms of his work he has all kinds of crazy cross cuts that everybody does Tom Mosa one his boss ms a a yard in our neighborhood and he keeps teasing Brandon like I see your stripes boy. So um just in a compliment way. So we're here whether you approve it or deny it. We're going to respectfully take whatever decision.

Is that time you say? Nope. One minute.

Okay. We're here to take whatever decision comes forth from the board. Uh and we'll be you know we'll go our own way. But um again he's 19. He works really hard. His equipment's always clean. He's paid for everything. I' i've helped him with, you know, seed money and starting him out, but he always pays pays me back. Before he really pays himself, he pays his equipment and pays his obligations. So, um, this means a lot to us. We did look at Doug Harry had a property on 40. He wanted $1,300 a month and with him starting out, we just couldn't afford that. So, before we, um, went, you know, went to our house and tried it there. And the buildings were all there. So, we just thought we weren't other than parking behind there, we were trying to keep him out of our drive so to make the neighborhood look good. So, that's where we're coming from on this.

Okay. Questions? I have one. Is the eventual plan for the business to move off the property? Yeah, I mean, I'm realistic. He's 19 again, so and with his account, um, he's he's getting more referral work. So, um if if it comes about where it gets bigger, we would definitely move it. But just starting out the money to for him to go rent and have everything like that, it just wasn't feasible. There any burning that will occur on site any any burning of material?

No, ma'am. I heard that question. The only thing I got to disclose that we do have a fire pit just for our family, but it's 36 in diameter. Um that we do have occasional fire in it, but um there's multiple people with fire pits. It's but no commercial use. Does any landscape debris come home? No, we don't have any. I won't allow it. No cutings, no leaves, no branches, mulch.

He has a dump trailer. If he works late and he can't get to the dump, it may sit in the trailer overnight, but we never dump it on our property. it it would never leave the trailer other than um you know just to take it to the dump the next morning. We're right off of 700 and 800 and um Mount Comfort transfer there has that uh green cycle where he takes it. So it's just a couple miles away. Were Were you okay with all the various conditions that Maria spoke about?

Yeah, Maria and and the um they've all been everybody's been very helpful there. Um, we had our planning our pre-planned meeting and it's been a little bit of learning curve for us. We want to comply. So, you know, they've been very helpful for explaining all the things that we need to do and comply with. Would you be um against us adding a few conditions such as no clients or employees? That's not a problem at all. Um, the only thing I got to say, so I'm going to bring in his clients and our neighbors. I gota I can't say why you can't come over. They want to come watch the Colts. No, this is for commercial purposes. Business related.

Yeah. I mean, as far as business related situations go, I mean, we when we run into a lot of these, that's one of the biggest issues that comes up is clientele coming to the place of residence for business purposes. I don't want and everything he does is offsite. It's it's all offsite. So, and we would say perhaps that it would be null and void if if it um was not operational for 12 months.

Yeah, he does have a layoff period and that was in the forms that I filed where it's seasonal. So, he worked at Novelty last year, did a great job there. Got certified on a forklift in 5 days. So, he he's just a hardworking kid. um as soon as he can get out um he goes and and so I'm saying it'll be probably February, March whether depending through November, December, weather permitting, in a 12-month period would would account for the seasonality. Yeah. And you would install a gate to the screening? We have one. He had one to put up, but like I said, once we got this, you can see it in the photo uh against the wall where we were going to put it up and then it'll have a it'll have a cover on it.

And then I'm just going to ask you a question that came in from our letter of remmonstrance. What is your opinion about the impact of adjacent property values with

think if you were to drive by our house today and see it like the side of that wall is completely clean around the back there's nothing on the back like we put um he Brandon bought them he he put up u lights their solar lights that um accent lighting and he take like I said he takes a lot of pride in his work um the the Um, if you if you drive through our neighborhood, there's a and I'm not trying to knock anybody in our neighborhood. I love our neighborhood, but there's a lot of campers and things like that that sit out in their drive. If you drive by our house, you see my truck, my wife's car, and that's it. You may see his truck in the drive, but um, if he's home for lunch, he may you may see his truck and trailer for for lunchtime, but or again, you may see it at some of the people's that he works for in the neighborhood. But um I feel like our house has risen up. Um and again, we have friends and neighbors that are here that um are here uh to support Brandon and um you're welcome to ask them as well.

The last thing I have is more of a procedural question. The application is from Brandon. Um but Brian, um you've been it's your property, you own it, and you've been testifying today. So any procedural issues with this um an applicant versus the I I believe you testifying gives us an indication of consent for use of the property for these purposes but we sometimes we just ask the question. The question is whether because the applicant is Brandon and the owner is Brian. So the the special exception would be granted on the

has to be really but for Brian even though it's Brandon's business the property is the variance would be with the property right yeah the variance would have to be the special exception would be with the person I think is her question right okay yeah so yes I think special exception should be with Brandon. The variances would have to be Brian, but the variances would only run so long as the special exception is active.

Yes. And I would recommend that that be included. One thing I would think as well and we can discuss this after the remestration if they're here or any remmonistration or county officials. I I see the gate and it's a typical farmstyle gate. I wouldn't I'm not opposed to it fully, but I would think it would be something better would be uh something opaque. Sure. Not that way we're not able to see through it. Would that be if we were to put that as a condition, would you be opposed to that? It's no problem. Okay.

Uh speaking also about the fence, you said that one one or two sections belong to your neighbors of the privacy fence. Our backyard, um the neighbor to the west, the neighbor to the east, they all have Oops. fencing. Yeah.

And then the neighbors behind us have wood fencing. So really our neighbors directly behind us have a chain link fence which we can see them. That's my um wife's sister and brother-in-law that live there. So um they have a but they do have a wood fence that when you go come in around the other way, you can't see it that they just put that up and that's where one of the complaints come from. The original complaint was the neighbor there, but you really can't see the yard at all. Now, what you see in the pictures are nowhere um are not anything like it is now. There's really no visibility of our backyard. I guess what I was wondering about was m making sure that we maintain that screening. So, if your neighbor removed the fence, you know, have a condition that you would install one on your side or something to maintain that screening. I I honestly don't think it I mean Brandon's 19 and as hard as he works I mean I see him moving beyond in the next year or two.

So I don't think this is going to be ongoing in all honesty but if it if it is two or three years we'll maintain it and if that if that ever happens we definitely Okay thinking that condition if the business is still active at the property is when that condition would apply. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I mean, just putting a condition on if the business goes out and they've got a condition of not putting a fence up, that's kind of a an issue in the future potentially. Yeah. You put that condition on the special exception. Yeah.

So, the um these special exceptions for a home occupation, I'm sure the staff told you that the whole goal is to maintain the residential character of the neighborhood and everything. And one of those things that we ask sometimes is to just where we're piling on the commitments, but no signage in the yard or anything. Sometimes we'll find people that'll stick a little yard sign. It's like so I don't want that either. Okay.

Um we have pride in ownership by far. Our our last house, Brandon did the landscaping and we got compliments on it all the time. And um the only question I have would be if he say he sold out, he's had other job offers from other companies like excavating and stuff already. If he were to sell out, if we keep the trailers for personal, we wouldn't have a business, but are we going to have a problem with that? Uh I'm not up on all those requirements, but I think our staff all left us. But um t typically it's um it has to be registered, licensed, has to be parked on a driveway, which I guess you have that um

behind the property. Yeah. Behind the behind the house or something. Basically the things that you're essentially doing now, I think. So I think I just don't want to have that happen if if something happens where he does go another direction. But right now, his full intent is to stay this route. that I'm I'm sure in the next couple years he's going to have a bigger Yeah. opportunity. Yep. Okay. Any more questions? Nope. All right. Thank you.

Thank you guys. Do we have anybody here this evening that would like to speak in opposition to the special exception or variances? Going once. Nope. None. Okay. Any uh government officials here that would like to speak in relation to this case? No. All right. Discussion. Um I think I made most of my stuff. I did as well. No. Did do you have all the conditions written down the way you like them? I do. Okay. You to relate them, please. Okay. Just as a reminder, we've got we've talked about several things.

Uh the things that I have are no clients if uh or employees for commercial purposes. no commercial burning be null and void if the business ceases to operate for 12 consecutive months or longer. And we've installed an opaque gate and maintain an opaque fencing around the perimeter either through neighbors or the property owner. On the variance, we would acknowledge that the petitioner and the homeowner um acknowledge that it's runs for the property and the variance would long run so long as the special exception is active. Do we need to just on that opaque fencing around the property if another fence comes down? The only thing I think we need to add is if the business is still active because if the business isn't active, then there's no point because

Got it. Second. Oh, was that a motion? I You want me to make it official? Is that what you were doing? You got it. You got it. He got it. So, yes, it was official. Okay. I have a question. Were you going to include staff recommendations as well? Oh, yes. Staff recommend staff. Okay. And then you didn't have anything on variance number two, did you? Um, the same the same notes would apply from variance one and two with regard to acknowledgement of the petitioner and the homeowner that it runs with the property and it's run so long as a special exception is active. Second.

And also staff recommendations as well. Well, your second still good. Okay, it's still good. All right. It's been moved and seconded that should the special exception for the home occupation be granted, it be subject to the stated uh conditions. All those in favor signify by saying I. I oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. And if we can locate our ballots, we can vote. They're usually on top. H They're usually on top.

I didn't see them. [Applause] Shoot down.

Yeah, we're voting on all of them, right? Did you Okay. [Applause] [Applause] Okay. Okay. In case number 25-2621, the special exception to allow a home occupation is granted a vote of 520. Case number 25-2621 for the variance to allow a home occupation business outside the home. The variance is granted a vote of 5 to zero. And finally, in case number 252621, variance number two, to exceed the 500 square ft max business area, the variance is granted. A vote of 5 to zero. You're

all set. Yep. Yep. [Applause] lost half our audience. Huh? It's half our audience. Holy cow. the room now. They gone.

Yeah. Fight against that. It was just like

guilty conscience. I have a guilty conscience. I was not an easy child, but

Okay. 3 hours a night for focus. Okay,

we are ready for item number two, good and ground maintenance.

Good and ground maintenance is located at 3859 and 3863 West US40 in Sugar Creek Township. This is on the south side of US40 near the intersection with County Road 400 West. zoning is currently commercial neighborhood which does not allow for um contractor's warehouse and storage yard. However, good and ground maintenance is also reszone to commercial community which allows for uh contractors warehouse and storage yard as a special exception use. This is a legal non-conforming use and site. uh today. Uh however, because Gooden is looking at adding an office building in the lawn area in the northwest corner of this site, they u need to come into compliance with our zoning ordinance. So that requires before they can get a building permit to build their new office building that they come here uh and to the plan commission and board of commissioners to first get their property reszoned to a district that allows for their use and then to receive the special exception in order to um operate on the property once properly zoned. Then they may apply for a building permit to build their new office building. Okay, there's there are some uh site plans included as part of this uh staff report so you can see where that proposed office is located.

Go. The total site area is just over 8 acres floor plan of the building they wish to build, which would need to comply with the corridor overlay standards. Since this is on US 40, a designated corridor. Okay. And definitions. Contractor's storage yard is an unenced portion of a large parcel upon which construction contractor stores construction equipment and other materials customarily used in the trade carried on by the contractor. And in our zoning ordinance, we really have no way to separate out, say, construction contractors from landscaping contractors. Contractors are contractors if they drive a vehicle to a client's site and do their business there. But they have to have a home base like this. Contractor's warehouse is an enclosed building within which a construction contractor or a landscape contractor stores construction equipment and other materials customarily used in the trade. Office space as an accessory use may be permitted with a contractor's warehouse. So these are the use types that we are seeing gooden uh pursuing on this site and now wanting to p wanting to expand upon. If we look at that special exception decision criteria, we see that um in approving special

exceptions, the BCA can attach conditions that make a use more or less acceptable to the neighborhood in which it is located. So when considering a special exception, the BCA may consider the following as they relate to the proposed use. Topography and other natural site features. Zoning of the site and surrounding properties. Driveway locations, access, street access, vehicular and pedestrian traffic, parking including the amount, locations and design, landscaping, screening and buffering, open space and other site amenities, noise production and hours of any business operation. Design, placement, architecture and building material of the structure. placement, design, intensity, height, and shielding of lights, traffic generation, general site layout as it relates to the surroundings, and any other criteria deemed relevant by the board. The board may impose such reasonable conditions upon its approval as it deems necessary to find that the criteria upon for approval in division D have been satisfied. All right. And our staff recommendation this evening is approval with the condition that a building permit and or improvement location permit relating to the special exception must be obtained in 12 months within 12 months of the above approval date and an occupancy permit must be obtained within 12 months of the approval of the permit or the special exe exception automatically expires. This of course is also in respon in contingent upon the board of commissioners approving the zoning uh change to commercial community. One thing to which was passed by the or given a favorable recommendation on

Tuesday evening with two conditions. first that uh the petitioner work with um staff andor the BCA on any screening of the Pensy Trail which is located due behind this property. Um currently Mr. Gooden has a uh chainlink fence with a barbed wire top for security purposes along uh that south edge of the property. He also keeps his portion of the Penzy well-maintained. Um, so it's an existing fence that's there today. Uh, typically in a situation like this, we would say it's a legal non-conforming site. As changes occur, we will bring this into conformance with our code. Um, in speaking with uh Mr. Gooden's attorney today, Eric Glasco, who's here this evening. There is a 7 and 1/2 ft grade change and a lot of railroad bed rockiness between that fence and the trail. And he says that the trail is at such a height that you're more or less looking over the fence. So planting anything between the fence and the trail is at this point a difficult task. The other condition um that was looked at by the plan commission um was in reference to open burning. Uh currently there is a large section of the site that is more or less lawn and Mr. Gooden does um currently occasionally burn nursery stock on that um particular lot when needed things he brings from his site to this location. Um, for those type of situations, typically my department looks strictly at what are the laws in place that deal with this. Um, here since it is a special exception, I suppose there's we defer to

state law, I believe, which I'll let uh Rhonda talk more about. Um, Mr. Glasgow did bring up some state law that might carve out our dealing with this at a local level as maybe not the right path to go. Um so anyway, that those are my staff uh my staff recommendation like I said is approval. Um with that one condition that they um basically move forward with uh they're already moving forward with what they're planning to do to be honest. So the use is already there. Um go ahead uh Lacy. I can see you've got questions. Is the special exception overview for the planning commission or the BC? Saw is my packet. I think a couple pages earlier.

Special exception would be BZA. What is your packet saying? Commission, but maybe I'm just not reading far enough. Uh if you keep going up, uh there we go. So this is for the just mention of it's going to plan it was going to for the reszone. Okay. So that was just a procedural note not a

want a clarification from me. Um you were talking about the expiration of the special exception one year after today uh that they need to have their building permit. Then I want to make sure that you're clarifying that they have to have the certificate of occupancy one year after the issuance of the building permit. Yes. Okay. I wasn't sure if I misheard that or what. So that's why I just wanted to point of clarification. Thank you.

Uh what are the screening requirements from this new zoning to the adjacent zoning that we're concerned? So, the landscape standards currently state that a buffer yard type one would be required between commercial and commercial, and that adds a 5-ft buffer lawn, which is pretty minimal. Um, and two shade or evergreen trees per 100 lineal feet. And that's what response was that they couldn't comply with that because of the

Our ordinance also states that the point of this buffer yard is typically to soften the area between uses and if there is a fence that this should go on the outside of the fence, not inside it. And given that the fence is located in such a way where immediately after it it kind of goes up to the trail bed, um that the response was at this time a buffer isn't particularly maybe the best way to go. Is the fence on the property line then? It is inside Mr. Goodton's property enough that he can maintain around the outside, but not so much as to be out of the ride of I shouldn't say right away, it's private now. Uh the trail property where

I know that Philip Going did a survey of the property. Let's see. I could probably let the petitioner better answer the question, which is fine. The old railroad ride rightway is typically buried depending on the area, but the buffer yard doesn't have to it's not restricted as to necessarily where it has to be, right? I mean, it has to just be inside of that that setback line. Typically, it goes um between the uh property line and where we we start counting the building setback line.

Yeah. I guess I understand the hardship with that, but for them to not have to do the type one, we would need a variance from the landscape buffer as well, right? Otherwise, they just kind of have to do it by

Would you be amunable to maybe the buffer planting going inside the fence? Yeah, that's what I was wondering is if there was just some place that they could they could I I I didn't calculate out how many trees that amounted to, but um and they're not going to do like you said, they're not going to do any screening by any means, but they would do some some softening along the trail there. Believe that would be 16 trees. Okay. Does the buffer yard that requirement uh specify what kind of trees?

Uh it it says two shade or evergreen trees per 100 linear feet. And we don't discuss height of the trees. There is um a certain standard for how tall in the caliber that those trees are at the time of planting. I feel like it might be a 2 inch caliber and 12 feet tall. Am I wrong? Might be wrong. Yeah. And I believe that's just for shade trees, not for coniferous.

The reason I because the the the the issue is with these railro old railroad embankments. Thankfully, we're in a relatively flat area. I mean, but sometimes some of these railroad embankments are 30 40 feet. And if you get in a hilly area, who knows what that embankment is going to be. sometimes it becomes almost a new point. That's why I was asking if that was the case because we do want to meet the try try to meet the buffer yard requirements, but uh also at a certain point in time if that railroad embankment's so tall, not a whole lot you can do.

Well, we can chat with them about it when they come up and see what they want to do because they're obviously amicable to doing something. Yeah, that's kind of why I brought that up. is just trying to pre preserve both sides. What what what kind of thing can we come up with? Yeah, typically we as staffs deal especially with existing uses like this simply deal with issues as they arise or focus on the area that's changing. So we'll give a very good hard look at the area where the office building is going and landscaping around it of course. Yeah. But we would typically leave say the rear of a property kind of for future.

Yeah. I just was getting a little concerned as I know we left the plan commission meeting where we'd mentioned that uh we would have them either discuss the landscaping with the BCA or try to work something out with the with the staff, but I was afraid that we probably really couldn't do that without a variance from the actual zoning requirement that landscape the landscape ordinance would would require something there. So,

and that sort of depends on your interpretation of when we're dealing with this. Is that when they change things at that location or is it right now because that we are legalizing an existing non-conforming use and bring you know that's kind of up to you guys but that's where I think daytoday I would say focus on the new let the old be but um I know it was mentioned at the plan commission and I certainly would not want to get in the way of them getting their reasonzoning

but also be impacted by the commissioner's hearing. That was a really important matter. So I think that the the meeting the requirements of the adjacent zoning was the minimum standard or is otherwise required at a higher standard by the BCA or staff or through the commissioners. Yeah. I mean the the reasonzoning was for the whole thing, right? The whole eight acres. So changing the zoning, I think that's what caught their attention, commissioner's attention, I think. So, all right. Any other questions? All right. None. We'll have uh the petitioner come up, Mr. Glasco.

Affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. State your name. Spell your last name. Eric Glasco. GL AO. Uh with Stevenson Refe here on behalf of Good and Ground Maintenance.

Minutes. Uh, I'm gonna start by just saying I'm shocked that students actually listen to the people that present at school. Um, I'm doing that tomorrow and I may have to rework what I'm gonna say. Um, yeah. So, I'm here on behalf of Good and Ground. I'll just kind of give a brief overview because I know you've got you guys have read it, you understand it. Um, we're here because they want to put in an office building. Right now, their offices are located in a residence, a ranch style house built in the 60s that's more conducive for a home, not for conferences and and running a business. So, they're looking to build a nice office space on that northwest portion of the property to relocate the office to there. Um, in applying for the building permit or getting actually before they even applied, talking to the county about that, uh, they were discovered to be a prior non-conforming use, a legal non-conforming use, and the county requested that they get their zoning appropriate and get a special exception use for the outdoor storage of the contractor equipment. And that's kind of what's prompted this is trying to kind of clean up some of the zoning stuff um before they get the building permit. Um to be clear, the the back outdoor storage is not going to change from where it is today other than fluctuations of the business itself. Um obviously the Pensy Trail became a a big matter of concern at the city c or the plan commission as I'm sure we're going to discuss that as well. Um so at that point I'll I'll turn it over to you with what I'm sure are questions. Did you discuss this landscaping thing anymore? Um,

we did and you know Dave went out, walked the trail. Um, you know, it's in it. It was frustrating for him because he's the only one actually maintaining the property on the trailers and then he comes in and, you know, and there was screening there and it was ripped out when they put the trail in. They they ripped out which is it was all invasive species anyway and that's typically what's up and down. Um, and as he's as he was there, he laser leveled it. And as you know, uh, Kayla expressed, there's about a seven seven and a half foot grade difference. So you're you're and you, if you're standing up at 5T, you're closer to 12, right? Um, so you're you're looking down, which makes, you know, opaque fence or some kind of screening like that.

Yeah.

And then we start looking at trees. And I don't know if there's any other additional work being done on Pinzy Trail as with regard to landscaping along it and if they're planning to come in and remove the um rock bed that's under that was underneath the railroad ties or the you know the railroad bed. Uh it's about 2 and 1 half to 3 ft deep of crushed gravel and stone. So you're not growing anything on it. Um and that runs pretty close to the fence um where the fence is for for good and ground. I don't know the exact distance there. Um, so in order, you know, even while the planting of trees themselves in that area would be expensive, when you start trying to price in all the removal of that stone and then bringing in dirt to actually be able to grow stuff, that just explodes the cost with that. Um, when we start looking at possibly doing landscaping on the inside, that is part of the operations and now we're losing operational space. And one issue becomes when you're talking about trees, we want something that's not just doing it to do it. We want something that's effective. We don't want a tree that's going to grow to be six feet. We need something that's going to grow to be 20, 30 feet. And then you start looking at, well, how wide is that going to be at the base? So, you're not sitting at 5t from the fence or even 10 feet from the fence. You're probably 15 to 20 feet out either way. And so if you're inside, you've now and then once that grows, you've now taken 25 40 feet of of property away from the operation, which becomes problematic.

If we're on the outside of the fence, we're actually in the county property at that point. When you push it out to the point where you could have the fence grow or the trees grow and not be on top of the fence, we're either on or really close to where the the county property begins. Um,

you know, I think I think if nothing else, Dave's maintenance of the trail and the way he's cleaned up that property, if you're not aware, it's the old Mattingly Automotive property, and he's made it look a lot better. He cares about optics. Anybody who's in landscaping, their number one advertising tool uh tool is people that drive by their sites, right? You know, it's like they drive by and see and it looks nice. There's going to be people walking by and if they see that he can't keep his own site clean, that's not going to help his reputation. So, he does care about that, but it becomes also a matter of what's efficient, what makes the most sense. Um, and you know, with regard to the outside, he's not opposed to working with the county to figure out some kind of a screen there. Um, it would be great if the county would chip in on cost of removal of that stone and getting dirt. Um, I don't, you know, obviously that's not a a BZA condition, but you know, that that makes this seem more as a partnership as opposed to just putting on him. And especially if we're having to do this in the county on county property anyway, that becomes a bigger, you know, it's it's a bigger question, right? Um, so, you know, I know in talking uh with Kayla, you had two conversations today. I think it does become an ongoing conversation especially as the trail continues to be developed and used and you know if there's changes in the way the property is used back there. Right now we're doing this to clean up the zoning so that they can build a building that's on the the front left portion of it the northwest portion of it. So some nothing back there is actually going to be changed um in the sense that there would be additional need for additional screening from what's already there. So what is your proposal then to comply with the planning commission requirement to address the screening? I'm I'm lost. What's the proposal? Well, you know, I I think and this is part of the reason why I asked what is the what was the condition that the plan commission put

on it because I thought it was I thought it was working with the office the the the planning office um in terms of trying to figure out what you know what makes the most sense and then obviously the commissioners are going to or the BCA or at minimum comply with with the buffer requirement.

Yeah. And what is and I don't know what the buffer requirement is between CC and CN because like we're not residential and I haven't I know I I kind of asked Kayla about that today. I don't know what the requirement is between CC and CN and I also don't know what other buffer requirements have been put on other properties that have been reszoned in the area. I think two parcels to the east is one that is now CC. So, I don't know if that was if there was a landscaping requirement placed on that one when it was reszoned. Um, the land, you know, I think the landscaping is based on use to use, not necessarily Yeah. And that one has automotive sitting back by the Pensy Trail pallets.

So, that one's even from an aesthetic standpoint than where we are. Look up CC and CN place. south property line abut commercially zoned property. So, I guess that after we had the hearing at the plan commission, I got to thinking about that and the condition that she just referenced. I was not sure that we were clear enough on that or really gave a good direction because it's probably since it's used to use and although it's a budding commercial, that commercial use is a trail, you know, right? So, we're we're commercial there over the the trail zone commercial, I think. So, um neighborhood.

Yeah. But the well yeah but the but the landscaping requirement would be a commercial use to a trail which is not a the use is a trail. So I don't know what the ordinance how the ordinance would direct for that. So I don't know if the right answer is to come up with a determination on what would be required there and then if we determine that it needs a type one then we make a secret variance or we could do trees elsewhere or you know one for one or something like that. I I don't know. But

I mean, it's arguably the trail being completed there, and I know that you guys are doing a great job of maintaining there, and that's very much appreciated, but the trail probably does add some value, and this reszoning adds some value to the property, arguably. So, for future uses and things like that. So, I think that that's probably what's going to be in top of the mind at the the hearing with the um commissioners probably. So on how they think. Would you would you like to speak? Yeah. You're going to swear me in. You swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth. The whole truth. I do. David Gooden. G O D I N. I want to be really clear. I want to do whatever is best.

I want Sorry. I want to see how much time's left so we know. Quite a bit of time. Like five minutes actually. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. I want to do what'sever best, but I also want the county to work with me too if we're doing it right. I mean, I didn't put the Pency Trail in. They put it in. There's a lot of rock back there. I have no trouble putting the landscaping in, but I don't want to put trees in that are going to die. And I mean, he said it was 3 foot. I mean, we took a shovel back there today to dig it up to find out. I mean, you're at 5 foot. I mean, I'm standing in the hole up to here and there's gravel all the way down. I have pictures of it on the Pency Trail where they've cut it out where

I'm as tall as the trail where they cut out and there's gravel all the way down. So have no trouble putting something in there, but I don't want to be responsible for the guy that has to come in to maintain something and it will have to go on the county property in order if you really want to hide a buffer and have something in there. I'll put 30 trees back there, but there needs to be some give and take. Not just that, but kind of along that lines in a sense. I don't want to see a private owner putting um spending money putting trees and shrubbery on county property if there's a a line issue there because then you know we're asking him to do things for us that's we don't that he doesn't own because when you put things on other property it becomes an ownership issue as well. Clarify for me why we're talking about the county property for a type one B require businesses to put

men trees property. I don't understand why we're in the county buffer

because there's no place to put it in there that the tree wouldn't grow into my fence that it wouldn't be of a nuisance. So let's just say we're going to put a Norway spruce and it's going to grow 30 40 foot and 25 35 ft out. Well, in order to do that to not touch the fence or be on the fence that I have currently now, it it would it would be in that air. So it would it would touch the fence and grow into the fence and then it becomes, you know, a maintenance issue. I guess if what what I'm saying is is I'm trying to just work with you guys up here and say, "Hey, look, this is what we're running into. It's not what I wanted dealt. There was trees that were growing up when they brought the trail in. They cut them all down. They were dead, but there was trees and things that were growing up. Honeysuckle that was growing up. They cut it all down. You

heard you heard the testimony on Tuesday from the planning commission. Direction was clear. aesthetically and for security purposes provide a plan for screening that and what I'm hearing is that well it's nothing it's not our obligation but it'd be wonderful to be able to hear what you'd be doing to comply with at minimum the buffer and some of the security requirements. I I I mean, yeah, I think it I think what you're saying is you want some more direction from the county as to what they would like for you to do there because you can't do it the way that our ordinance says essentially. Willing to put them on the inside, right? Oh, you don't want to put them on the inside. No. Yeah. Okay.

I think it becomes the same problem. You're talking about losing the 40 ft of operational space all the way down at maturity level. Yeah. At maturity level. Well, the other issue I think we're having here is I don't think the county's clear, including us, that what has to be there. I mean, he does. Am I right in understanding that you do have a fence fence there currently? Yes. What kind? Chain link. Okay. Well maintained. Could we How do we feel about slats going into the chain?

The chain link. I'm not opposed to slats because that does give it an opaque feature. Uh the the the issue I'm having with this is because it is a a con congested area. Um is yeah we we're we're we're not even like I said we're not even 100% sure what kind of buffer were there that that needs to be there because it's unclear in the ordinance. Thus in my opinion it's it's open. But what I think but we have two zonings. Follow what the zoning says. So, we have one that's now Well, that's what I'm asking. Do we have for those two zonings? Do we have what what does the ordinance state?

Okay. That's what I'm trying to ascertain because so far what I've heard, I haven't heard anything. So, I'm not saying it's done there. I just want to know what that is.

Why she looks that up? You guys can give us your plan for burning. Uh yeah. So uh Good and Ground has a nursery license. Their burning is governed by IDM. Um they have to meet IDMem standards for that. That is actually covered under while there's a general prohibition on commercial burning. If you look at Indiana code section 13179-1, that is um open burning of certain vegetation and wood items, no permit required, which includes a nursery, um which is what Dave has. Dave has a nursery uh license for the nursery that he grows.

Yeah. Um and they they require a lot of things. They require any burns to be observed. You have to be there while they're burning them, which Dave does. Dave has a water truck back there while there's burns going. They have to be dawn to dusk, you know, it has to be light out. Dave's good theirs during the workday while people are there, you know, so it's there. Um, and it has to be the the, you know, the dead stock, the nursery stock is what they can burn. There's limitations on what they can do to the issues there to the point that there are issues with that. That's a IDM concern. Yeah. and my mic to IDM and IDM as has you know Dave has met with IDM in the past with regard to his operation and IDM found that they were in compliance

just out of curiosity what is the size limit of that burn we don't burn very big yeah and I I ask that's well that's why I was wondering because I know on a private say that we haven't had them to where they've gotten big because my understanding per state law for private ownership as far as yeah you and me at our house it's a two foot cube from grade so I know a lot of times they specy speify that. I didn't know if you happen to know what that was. I don't believe they have a specification. Okay.

With this or, you know, with farmers that are burning on in fields, things like that. Um there, you know, but then there are other aspects of this. Anytime there is an open burn, Dave notifies the fire department um of the open burn. That's always the fire department's been called once. I think I we thought it was twice, but Kayla spoke to them today. They've been called once. They came and everything was okay. And they just said, "Hey, put it out before you leave." Which he does. Yeah. As long as you notify them as well, that's great.

I think another component of this that maybe it seems to kind of get overstated is I think you were burning here recently and it was the third time this year. It's not a regular burn and it's even timed then to when it is, you know, one it's going to be driven on the stock that's going in the weather condition. So it can't be limited to only once per this. I mean we we don't know but it is not a regular occurrence. Um, and even with then he he tries to time it when it's cool and wet because that helps keep the the burn under control. Um, and also keeps smoke down and a lot of the stock that they're burning isn't creating a lot of smoke anyway.

So, um, there's no local ordinance besides an emergency preclusion of burn that you would need to comply with. In fact, this the statute actually says that there's no requirement for permits from local governments on that. Interesting.

And it states um that if you we do have a park use, which is probably what the Pensy Trail would come closest to. So, if we look at a commercial use next to a park use, then the buffer yard is actually a type two. So for a side or rear property line, that means a 20ft buffer yard area with four shade or evergreen trees, one ornamental tree, and 10 large shrubs per 100 linear feet. I would point out once again that on existing sites, we typically enforce this as the site develops. I'm looking at a warehouse addition right now. I'm not asking them to rellandscape the entire warehouse. I'm just looking at the addition.

Yeah, that's a that's a good point. It's um the trees that she's described don't hide anything. So, if you're wanting to hide something, you want an evergreen there. And again, I have zero problem putting evergreen trees down through there. And I'll put them to where they touch. So, when they grow in, you can't see anything. But again, in order to be on there, I want to come on the outside of the fence and not the inside of my fence. Type two requires the location of those trees to the outside of the fence. That's the problem. On which property? On whose property?

Well, it' be on his property, but that's what he's saying. It's not There's only what, five feet, right? No, I don't need to. Well, we'll need you to swear in. Unfortunately, if you've got Look at the sight and or whisper it in one of these guys ears or something. It doesn't really show. Swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth. The whole truth. I do.

Going spelled G O I N G. And uh we have not completed a a total detailed land yet pending approval of uh of these issues here tonight. But um we we have prepared the site plan based on survey grade information. And you can see on that site plan first of all you you can see all the growth that got removed

um for the trail that had been there. That shows up very clearly on your site plan. And um you'll see the rear property line and you'll also see a 20 foot uh setback rear setback requirement. And you kind of see a a light fuzzy line that runs at an angle through that. That fuzzy line is the fence. Okay. That we're talking about. So on the uh westerly end, it looks like he probably has about 15 feet outside the fence.

Uh down at the easterly end, probably not much. explain how we would normally address a type two. The fence would be located in such a manner that you have also inside the property line. I mean, we're we're drawing a demarcation at the fence. That seems arbitrary to me.

The uh the ordinance requires that to be done by a landscape licensed landscape architect and so I usually refer things to a landscape like architect for that. All right. Um, I still just don't this this landscape issue. I'm not sure that we can address it without possibly. I mean, he's definitely has a has a hardship situation here with the with the topography. So, that's kind of what I'm seeing is if I mean, I think they need to work it the petitioner and the the staff need to work this out if they can. And if not, we may be looking at a later variance.

Mhm. Yeah. I don't it I don't think it's going to be anything we're going to defend definitively complete the

I would also assume that you would get further direction at the approval of the recommendation on the zoning on that your next level that we could take better action on. The the only issue I have with that is we are a prior non-conforming use and the minute we make changes we risk losing that. So there's a chance we go to the commissioners, we get our reszone, we get our use variance pending some future variance, you guys deny it and now we we lose the prior non-conforming uses that we have now. So, you know, the alternative might be, you know, I don't know what that that looks like, you know, cuz Kayla has suggested that as the development occurs along the back that it be addressed. Then I think that sounds reasonable. Of course, of course I do, right? I'm the the petition.

Well, and and and in answer to your question though, that's that's kind of my rub as well. Yeah. Is is your your development's up front, your development's not in the back. A B you you're you're legal non-conforming. So as long so everything that you've enjoyed should still exist in my understanding of how legal non-conformity works. So the landscape issue in the back is is is not as a big of a deal to me as it is the conformity of the new structure up up at the front. I agree and I think that kind of concern what I'm trying to except that there's specific direction from the planning commission this

but that's my point. The plan commission is trying to direct something in an area of the property that's not even part of the the the issue of a I get that.

I get that. But still that's that's case in point. you know, they're they're wanting to broaden the expanse of what they're wanting done versus what's actually trying to be done. Cuz I I've run into this before with other situations as well that I've seen where, well, why you're doing this, let let's do this. And it's it's has nothing to do with why why they're there. That's

I would look to the vote of the planning commission in direction of that in order to reszone. There was cons there was conditions there was conditions that we put very deep on lots of lots of items. I think am I I think you guys should do what you want to do

and then it kind of becomes up to the commissioners to reconcile that because the plan commission has made a recommendation to the commissioners. They're going to review that recommendation and they're going to make their decision based off of however they make theirs. But yours is separate and apart from that and then there could be some reconciliation at the commissioner meeting between yours being conditioned upon approval by the commissioners and you know then we see what happens at the commissioner meeting.

Yeah, it the ideal situation here would probably be that we would have a variance in our packet tonight to eliminate the buffer requirements I think would be ideal unfortunately. So I don't know if well and I still don't know that it does because the plan commission put a condition on theirs. So I don't know what happens when you have the plan commission conditioning we have to do landscaping BCA giving us a variance saying we don't have to. I don't know who controls can't we can't grant a variance that's not in front of us.

Yeah. I mean, even if we did, even if we did have it, if you make a condition, I I I don't know the commissioners come back and grant your recommendation from the plan commission and say do landscaping and we say, but the BZA told us we don't have to. That seems irreconcilably, you know, we can kind of make those work together. So, is the let me understand is the planning commission wanting us to tell them what to do on planning commission gave time for them to work this out and come do a recommendation for us? the recommendations that we're not going to well the recommendation the recommendation was that no landscaping be done at the rear until the rear is developed.

So if you want to view that as don't do anything that's fine but that wasn't the recommendation. And I believe the recommendation was that the plan department isn't typically making people even with the wholesale do landscaping on these kinds of variances until they're making changes. The planning commission absolutely does that when there's a dissimilar I was talking about the the plan department's recommendation obviously. But if there's dissimilar uses or dissimilar zoning, we have to address that. That's that's all this is. It's just different uses, two different I completely understand. But I think this is also unique in that it's prior non-conforming, illegal non-conforming use.

How many years you've been there at that location operating? 2018. Seven. When did the trail go through? Uh the trail came through this time forward. Yesterday already sworn in swearing again. No,

the trail came in. They like it completely got asphalted like in the spring of this year. They started to work on it like uh I think in the fall or something. We actually went back and helped them clear a bunch of it out with the bush hog and stuff down further, not behind us, but down further because they ran into some things. So, prior to them cleaning this out across your southern line, how close were the were the plantings on your property and then the county came in and cleaned all that? Yeah. They they came in cuz they're greater got down in there when they came in and they cleaned they had a bunch of honeysuckle down through there. Mhm.

That had grown up and they had cleaned I don't know from like me to you down into it. Mhm. And so as they came in, they got the trail asphalted. We went in cuz honeysuckle is an invasive species and clean the rest of it out to try to make it look nice. That's when we started to find all this gravel cuz we were going to try to grow grass and and make things look nice back there. So we go back there about every other week and try to knock it down and mow it down. We actually do both sides of it. So the existing materials could have been a benefit for screening for you and then the county came and took them out. Correct. But it was invasive though, right? So it was Well, it's still screaming.

And and I had pictures and I I mean it doesn't matter now, but they have that way down. Somebody's gone down the whole trail and done that where they've you know the trail was going to say from this whole area from that you're walking in here and they've gone through and they've widened it. I mean with somebody's gone through cuz they make piles and just leave it and it's been there for Mhm. months where they've just made piles and left it. So, I mean, I guess when when I think of things, it's like I really am trying to take care of it because it really does represent us. I mean, you know, and I do want it to look nice.

Yeah. Um, but if if we went with the original thought of the, you know, waiting until the property to the south, which would be the residential property, which, you know, I'll admit that's where my mind was Tuesday night was buffering between your use and the residential. That was before I thought about the trail be being its own zoning, I guess. Um, is that is that something you're open to that if a neighborhood was built back there that you would create the type two buffer to doing however you have to do it? If that's a new fence or whatever, I don't have to bring in truck dirt in. Absolutely. It's going to be expensive.

Yeah. I mean, in order to get plants to grow and thrive in that area and to get, you know, established turf and to make things look nice. I mean, it's it's slate railroad ties with, you know, steel and everything else in there.

Well, I know we said uh the BCA or the staff, I think. So, um I guess an option that we have is to just It sounds like we don't have the authority to negotiate shared cost or anything here at the the BZA. So, we may just have to uh stick with that staff recommendation uh for now and uh let let you hash any of that out with the commissioners as far as shared cost or whatever. Does that sound reasonable? What's the staff recommendation? detect one or

it was well it'd be that uh to wait until the property of the south was developed and then install it and that could be 20 years who knows you know it could be anything but so all right um we haven't done our remmonstrators yet we still need to do that do we do we have anybody here that would like to speak in opposition to this one up. Do you swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth? The whole

I do. Larry Sadam, Sedam. Just so happens Larry walked that section of trail July 20th. And I can't show you the picture that's on my phone, but the dog was in the picture and we took it and it's that spot. So going to tell you about 2 feet off of that fence in his nursery area is an evergreen growing along with many other trees in his nursery area along with many stacks of pallets that is unsightly along with his snow plows that are against the fence that are again unsightly. I appreciate the fact that he maintains his area on this side of the fence, but this trail as you go down is supposed to be a keystone hallmark for Hancock County. It's supposed to take Greenfield clear to Indianapolis. If you take the trail, walk it, bike it, land owners that want to make it nice, like the apartments, they maintain their area. Got housing additions that don't maintain it. So yes, you know, on the opposite side is scrub, but if he wants to have a hallmark for him, put his sign out there, clean it up. Look where the fire department is on 700 there where it kind of does the little jog there, right by the church. Pency trail goes behind it. It's immaculate down there. It's immaculate almost all the way down. There are certain parts of the trail that's bad. This part of the trail just

opened. Shouldn't expect this part of the trail to be to the standard the rest of the trail is. Right behind this building is the trail pulled in tonight. Was it bad? Was it overgrowing? No, it's maintained because it's been there for a while. You take it all the way down. Don't get me wrong, there's some there's some rough stuff in the along the Pency Trail where, you know, farmers for years have thrown their old toilets and you name it, it's back there. But if you want to put a standard, put a standard. Make it make them live up to it. Don't let them show a a rusty old snow plow when you tell me you can't grow anything there, but I can clearly see two feet off the fence you're growing evergreens in your nursery. And if he's going to deny it, he and I can go back there and look at this picture because I'm telling you right here, it's right here next to his fence along with some of the other unsightly things he has. I get it. It's a business. But you know what? Be proud of your business. You know, your front door is just as important as your back door, especially if your back door is the Pensy Trail. That's just my opinion.

Thank you.

One question. You talk about the Pensy Trail a lot. How long has it been that the Pensy Trail was going to run that distance, run that way? Um about two years ago I started helping them clean some of it out because it was about right where they're at was a hump where the train came down. So it started smoothing out but from about from the start of his property down it starts to slope down. So, the county has owned that for a while. They try to put mulch and all kinds of make it a trail, a walking trail, but until the spring is when they really started doing it. Um, but before that, you had the 400 over to 500. And it's been peacemeal. this this whole pency trail has been a a bite at a time is the best way to say it. Um so again, you've got got the county doing what they have to do to try to get it to that point and I think as as business owners I think you know a lot of businesses are along that trail. A lot of people take care of it but I won't say it's perfect. You ride right down past this area here. It's pretty It's pretty rough. It's pretty ugly. So, what do we enforce? What do we ask our what do I ask our neighbors to do? This is a neighbor that's taking care of something, but yet he's saying he can't grow anything. I don't know. Thank you. Do anybody else who'd like to speak in opposition? Mr. Glasco, you've got some uh rebuttal period here.

Three three minutes. Yeah. Point of clarity. Um he is talking inside the fence. The ungrowable area that we've discussed was between the fence and the trail. Um that's the stock, you know, that's the those are the spruce stock. There's probably 40 of them there that he uses in his operation.

If we have to plant landscaping buffer there, those all have to go someplace else. And now we've lost, that's what we're talking about. We've lost 40 feet of usable space down that fence row when you start planting so that the pines don't ruin the fence because eventually they're going to go 30 40t tall, 20 feet, you know, out. So if you don't want to ruin the fence by having the trees on top of them, you have to push them back. But yes, that inside of the area can grow and those are the stock that he is growing for his business. So nobody is indicating that trees and plants can't grow inside of that fence. That is actually where he is growing the stock for his operation. So just wanted to clarify that.

Can you address the remmonstrator's claim about the unsightly collection along the fence just for us just for the record? That there's a plow a snow plow there. Is that plow pallets? I know what it is. You know where it's at. Yeah, there's nothing to hide. I mean I I said it the last time I was here. There's pallets that are there. We do stack pallets up. We do keep material back along the fence. Um, yeah, 100% there is snow plows that are there. I don't know any snow plow that's up against the fence. Everything is actually north of our road as it comes in. You don't have the map up, but there's a road that comes in that you can see. All the snow plows are stacked and they're all nice and neat and they're all sitting in there. Um, yeah. I mean, plows are going to get rusty. It's sitting outside.

All right. Anything else? Any questions? One more question. Um, seeing that the full reszoning was only a favorable recommendation is going to commissioners next. Um, we usually would see a little bit of time for that to settle before it becomes to the BCA. Would you be injured if we continued and waited for that final determination by the commissioners to uh yes because we'd lose the prior non-conforming. We get the would impact you how we can't have outdoor storage.

We get reszoned to CC which is fine but we don't we're not allowed to do any outdoor storage. And now we have done a reszone which I believe your council would tell you could put at risk the prior non-conforming use that allows outdoor storage and the nursery allowed to continue non-conforming. You think I I was under the impression that if we make any changes such as reszones that we lose any of the variances that we would have had to get under the prior non-conforming use. If I can get a if I get a letter from council that says we don't lose our ability to have outdoor storage under a reason be best requested under your commissioner's hearing

what I'm sorry be best requested under your comm that the non-conforming use came before the BCA approval add that as a as a condition usually how that would happen it's just out of ordinary for us to consider something without the full decision and full instruction being made by the commissioners that's the approval we're we're seeing this before the reason.

I I understand. I mean, I view the BCA as a different body than the plan commission and the commissioners. You guys are kind of your own. Your rules don't go, you don't make a recommendation to them. You make your decision and that's the decision. So, you know, if if the commissioners put a condition that we don't lose our any of the benefits of our legal non-conforming status on the reszone pending the resolution of the BZA, I don't have any issue with that. We can't do that here either, right?

So, let's let's say we can't do that here. So, that's why I'm okay with proceeding forward with this uh special exception request. Yeah, it's I think it's essentially the the landscape buffer just had after all this discussion, it would just essentially just be an unresolved item. I guess I mean at this point and then once you got your reszone done then you guys haven't asked me one question about my building. I mean it's just all been about the I mean I'm just being honest. I mean like that's the weird thing is the building's not really believe it or not. I actually had a question about your building. I mean so I just I'm just up here thinking you know out loud. It's like you know this whole time we've been talking about landscape. I mean obviously I'm a landscaping company but like I'm here to because I want to build a building. Yeah.

And I'll be honest with you as I'm sitting over there I have a lot of second thoughts if I want to continue to try to build this building. I'm not lying to you. I mean, I'm ready just to go back to work and do what I was doing. So, the one question I did have about your building, um, have you been to have you had discussions with or will have discussions with the, uh, survey department about drainage? Yeah,

cuz we're adding impervious air due to the the building itself and the uh, parking lot around it. So being that's always going to be an issue especially along there with the road with the old trail is drainage. So as long as that main making sure that happens and you get proper approvals and whatever it may be required. So yeah, I definitely appreciate your frustration. I'm frustrated with it, too, because it's it it's got to be rough have you just trying to improve your property and then we're sitting here haggling over a landscaping buffer, but um

I I assure you just have to be patient with me. It's going to look nice. I mean, it is, as the gentleman said here, it doesn't come overnight. I mean, yeah, you just got to be patient with me to get some things

squared away. It's just uh unfortunate these these types of situations, it's, you know, it's trying to figure out how to to make sure that we do it right legally so that it's all documented correctly. And that's that's really the discussion. It's not so much that we have any doubt that you're going to do a really nice job because you always have. It's one of the best looking properties along there. For sure. I mean, it just always looks great. You've been a great community member. So, we don't doubt that at all. It's just making sure that we're following and everything's documented correctly and and it and it all works out. So, but yeah, I appreciate the frustration. It it's tough for sure.

So, once the new building's built, what are you going to do with the house? Uh, you know, that's a good question. I don't know what we're going to do with the house, honestly. You know, part of it thought maybe get donate it to the fire department, you know, and level it off and make it green space. I mean, I don't really know if I'm being honest. I haven't haven't given it that much thought ahead because we're busting at the seams there and we really need more office space. I mean, I'm looking at, you know, opening up a I've been looking for another building as well to start a second location. I mean, we're really growing and really booming. So, I mean, actively looking there, too. So,

yeah. All right. Right. Any more questions? All right. All right. Thanks, guys. There were no government officials here, I don't think. So, we'll just move on from there. So, any uh discussions here on uh I know that we're we're missing much of the contracted warehouse and storage yard conditions that we normally have.

Mhm. [Applause] Yeah, these are these are some things that we sometimes tack on to it. That's really just uh reminders to the owner of the procedural things that go along with u a special exception or variance. Um the owner shall seek and obtain an improvement location permit for the change of use. I think that was on there already. Um, BCA reserves the right to modify or revoke the special exception at a public hearing if it determines that the business constitutes a public nuisance. The special exception shall automatically expire after 12 months unless all required county permits related to the change of use have been approved. That would be your building permits. The special exception shall be limited to and run with the petitioner or assigne or affiliate of the petitioner in which the petitioner has and maintains a controlling interest. Otherwise, a special exception shall not be transferable to any other petitioner person or entity and the petitioner agrees to provide an access e Oh, nope.

No, say I don't know what that one's doing on there. You don't need to be providing any access easements to the township trustee. I don't know what that's on there for. So just some procedural things there, but I don't know if you want to show that to Mr. Glasco, make sure he's okay with those if we decide we want to add those on. Otherwise, we probably good with the staff conditions, which is just the uh the ILP.

Are you including A through E? Uh yeah, that was the whole uh the requirements of the ILP. Yeah, that that'll be in the um application. I also kind of wonder if his nursery stock would count. I mean, he basically has it because he's got all those trees planted there. Have a plan that addressed it. We could have done this so easily. Mhm. My I mean, I would be most open for a continuence

because we just don't have clear direction on the entirety of what's what's been given to us. So, that It would be nice to have the resoning settled that we're making decisions about what the zoning is. Yeah, I I agree with them though that they purs, you know, from a pure legal perspective, they would then their legal non-conforming is kind of in jeopardy in that case. in jeopardy, but anyway, it would have been. I don't if there's always in jeopardy. Purchasing a non illegal non-conforming is a danger. Absolutely.

If need be, staff could also ask the nurers to continue time needed on that end till more information was needed. So if it if we continued this special exception, it went to the commissioners. They approved of the reszoning.

Any commentary on the turned down or or not. There's a there's a recommendation then we have the clear determination have clear determination on what we're dealing with and type one type two whatever it is because that's all pending that that all can be handled in the reszone but not the special exception then if there is a determination then we can handle that. Well, that's what

I don't understand. But I don't think the the special except exception has anything to do with the reasonzoning bit a bit blind zoning is what the instruction is on on theruction of the property. Um

I mean I understand we know we know that it's coming but as of tonight right now it's zoned as it is. I mean I if I'm almost wondering if we knew if if so and I'm not trying to be I don't know rude if you will but it's just if if did staff know this this was coming the reszone

we recommended it because in order for him to build his office building he needed to reszone and get the special exception. Okay. So, did we recommend the special exception prior to the reszone or the reszone prior to the special exception? Both were recommended at the same time. Essentially, it is the petitioner's choice how they want to pursue that. But you cannot get the the special exception if you are not in the correct zoning district to allow it. That's our if we can get the commission continue this then we have clear direction on the zoning. Well, that's what I'm kind of saying. So, if we reszone first and would the special exception be needed?

Yes. Okay. So, either way, the special exception need needs to happen. Yes. In order come up to the microphone so you can get on the record. The commissioners denied the reszone. We're not a we're not I don't even think we're a special use under the current zoning. So, we can't get a use at all at that point. Well, no. What I'm understanding from the my understanding of the ordinance, a special exception would still be required for the you for this office building. Correct. I think it'd be a use variance at that point.

If the reason is denied, you cannot get a special exception. You cannot build the new office building. You are stuck with legal non-conforming status as it is today. No new buildings associated with this use can be built. So if we grant a special exception tonight and the commissioners decide to deny the reszone, this is basically null and void. It would be that's my point for conditioned upon the commissioner's approvise of this. I believe we mentioned it as a risk. We did you understand that as a risk?

Yeah, I understood that your granting of a special exception would be conditioned upon the the commissioner's approval of a reason. Okay. Well, your special exception here has to be conditioned on their reszone. Yeah. Like there's no language in that here. I'm just saying it would be much better to have a clear determination on the zoning and then we can properly consider a special exception to a zoning that's then active. We don't know the conditions upon which we're approving or not approving a special exception. That's the that's the that's the concern and I think that's part of my frustration with the soul case.

Well, I mean well well this is procedurally this is kind of how things these types of things go. uh just because of the the timing of meetings and things, but we we found ourselves hung up on this landscaping because of the ILOP permit, right? So, when they file for the ILOP, when you do the plan review, you're going to say, "Well, you need this type two buffer there," which he can do. Uh it's just they're just all going to die, you know, because he's going to set them on rocks out there, you know. So, I mean, we could after even after all this discussion, we could vote on the special exception, be completely silent about the um landscaping that would refer them back to the comment that the plan commission made that they would work with the BCA and staff. The staff couldn't or the BCA couldn't do anything because there was not the right zoning in place to make a determination or to ne negotiate they have an idea to share some some cost with the county to do what the county would like to see done there. So, I mean, I guess we could go ahead and make a determination on the special exception and then when they go to the commissioners, they could talk about landscaping and what they would like for you to do

because the commissioners can add and make more stringent because they could add a they could add a landscaping requirement or a landscaping alternative or something like that, I suppose, right? they could, you know, it I think when it came up Tuesday night, it was you just just as a community asset, you know, this trail out here trying to, you know, do right by it, you know, and all. So, and I, you know, and I, when I was talking to Dave about this, I indicated, you know, the county can't make you do anything. They can't make you do any buffer. They can't make you change your outdoor storage. But you can't build a building. This is a chance for some give and take.

Yeah. And the question becomes, how much does the county want to take in terms of you lose 40 by 100 ft of your inside fencing area? That's the operation of your business when, as he's telling you, he's already busting at the seams looking to buy more. Yeah. Um versus, you know, okay, we got to build it outside. Well, if we build it close enough so that we're not on county property, we've now destroyed our $60,000 fence. And I I see your face, but you know, there's that. You know, it's, you know, if we build a pine that grows into the fence, that's going to destroy the fence. Yeah. And so, you know, so there there is some give and take here. If the county doesn't want to give, then that's fine. It stays the way it is now.

If there's a mutual ground where everybody can meet to figure out a way to screen, a way to buffer and get approvals, fantastic. But, you know, it's

Yeah. I guess from your perspective, if we took action here tonight on the special exception, say it's approved, you've got a favorable recommendation with the commissioners. You go to the commissioner meeting and um one of them is already got this front of mind, you know, and so I guess you just would discuss the options then to be able to obtain the ILP with your challenges of your landscaping. So, I I think that's a possibility. There's still some risk going into that. I mean, obviously they could not and there's risk with all this. They say no and then it's we're just back to where we started. Yeah. And we just go about

as if you know this didn't happen. Yeah. All right. Any more discussion? This might not fly, but um I would feel more comfortable making a determination on this case when we have clear zoning in place and direction from the commissioners. I would motion to continue into our next board meeting. Would anybody like to second? All right, that motion dies. We have any discussion on the condition condition or conditions.

I guess we could make a condition that says that they would discuss with the with the staff and the board of commissioners, right? that the landscaping issue. That would be a way to to document what we talked about here tonight. I have a question for us. So he made the comment that if we did continue this chance that their um non-conforming non-conforming status and I don't understand if if we're going to continue this how that

they could get their reasonzoning at the board of commissioners before our next meeting and then that they wouldn't be allowed that they essentially don't they can't continue then because they've changed the zoning so they don't they're not legal non-conforming anymore. or they've got a new zoning in place. But there can be a condition when approving that non-conforming can continue with the special exception.

Yeah. Our department would look at the non-conforming chapter of the zoning ordinance and it typically looks at when we have legal non-conforming uses, they may continue indefinitely until they are abandoned for 12 months or more. That's that's the rule. That's to protect against changes we make in the rules.

That's the thing. Protect against changes you make. They're the ones requesting the zoning change. So I don't know if that that's where the risk in there in lies. I think it would still hold true because of the the use is not changing. Oh okay.

Attorney. So if um our legal our non-conforming uses is under section 156 093. It addresses new structures but no new structure shall be constructed in connection with an existing legal non-conforming use of land. I'm reading that. However, um or that is one of the um exceptions that where you cannot continue the non-conforming use. However, um this new structure wouldn't be built anyway unless you had the special exception. So it

well the the question I'm asking is so that the when the zoning change is self-imposed then does the legal nonconforming that you enjoy still apply because the legal non-conforming does protect against somebody you know the county changing it without you doing it but you're the one imposing this zoning change. So my answer is that when it gets to that to the commissioners, they can craft their language. We know the intent here, right? And craft that language to make sure that the non-conforming use can exist until they get their special exception. I mean, that can be crafted in one of their

But will they? That's the kind of the rub and I think it's part of the reason why they went ahead and took this risk tonight. They could withdraw at the time before they make a decision. They could draw their request to them that they put that language in so that it can get back to us.

I'm sure staff can make that recommendation or you could do it if you want to want to continue or if you want to put that into your one of your conditions or directives that can be part of your certification. I'm sure we can get word to them. I mean, we're all trying to work together on this. I don't think anybody's saying, you know, they're not standing their trying to make this work. So, procedurally, I think we can figure it out. I think they're trying to do the right thing. Mhm. And way the timing is everything, it's almost like we're kind of slapping them at the same time.

Yeah. And I want to protect what, you know, the the rights that they have

that they currently have. I also understand I I agree with Lacy. You know, we really need to know what we're going to be voting on. Well, that was a lot of options. So, we could we could do uh we we could consider it sounds to me like we could consider continuing this with the con I'm sorry, we could continue we could vote on this with a condition that the landscaping required by the ILP be discussed and agreed upon with the board of commissioners at the resoning. that could be an option that prevents them from risking this like reszone.

Yes. All that, but it also addresses the because they have a hard there is a hardship there with that landscaping for sure. So I any new news? No. Okay.

All right. So, we'll um any any additional u discussion uh motions or if there are none, we can we can vote. We take a vote tonight uh without any conditions. And uh this landscaping issue just uh is deferred to the code. what the code says. I would make a motion to u vote on it with the condition as you stated with the uh condition that they work that out with staff and second restate that

articulate it one more time.

So I think I think what he was Yeah, I it kind of originally came from me. I think the motion and the second is uh that if the special exception is approved, it uh be subject to staff condition number one and then like a number one a stating that the the petitioner um address the ILP's landscape buffer requirements with the board of commissioners at the resoning hearing. Yes. All but number five

is your second still still good. Yes. uh staff condition uh standard conditions one through four and then the condition about the uh negotiating or working with the uh Nascape buffer requirement with the board of commissioners and essentially get direction from the board of commissioners on how to how to do that. Okay, it's been moved and seconded. All those in favor signify by saying I

oppose same sign. Okay, so we have a four to one on the conditions. So motion carries. All right. So now we can uh fill in our ballots. Go. Case number 25-2623, the special exception to allow Contractor storage yard and warehousing is granted. A vote of 421 with Willard dissenting.

All right. Thank you guys. Thanks for going through all that with us. We appreciate it. We have a number three. All right. Um item number three, AM Ambrose Mount Comfort five. Okay. I just because I had two. Everybody got a number three petition? Yeah. Okay. I had two. That's why I was asking.

Maria, your cap lock is on. So uh the third petition for tonight is um Ambrose Mount Comfort. Uh the subject property is located at 2709 North 400 West in Buck Creek Township. It is in a IBP um industrial business park zoning district. The petitioner tonight is requesting a special exception to allowed food production use. So in your packets um you should see the site plan that petitioner provided. Um the project the project involves us utilizing the existing building with the addition of two silos approximately 30 ft in height to store cooking oil as well as expanding the parking area to the east side of the facility. So in our land use matrix it states that in IBP um zoning district food and beverage production is a special exception. the other uses that the petitioner um is wanting to have at this location is permitted. So the manufacturing and distri distribution facility is permitted in the current zoning district. Uh so why does um this require a special exception? Um so with the food production um it requires a special exception to operate in this district um due to specifically the utility demand of the food facility. Um it must be located in an appropriate area where um the utilities are available or can be provided. Uh one of the key concerns is um the fat and oil

and grease which if um discharge into the sewer system um it could um cause issues with um the water treatment systems and potentially some environmental um issues. So that's why it would um requires a special exception um because not all areas um are deemed um feasible for um this type of use. Um so as I said this is a special exception request. Um uh staff is recommending a the um approval with the following conditions that building permit and IOP um be obtained within 12 months of the approval date and the occupancy permit must um be obtained 12 month 12 months um after the approval of the permit. Are there any questions? Did is this special exception does it cover both of the parcels that are highlighted or all three of three.

So, it's just where that parcel where the um building is at. Okay. And the application is by the tenant, not the landlord or the owner of the property. It's by the owner. By the owner and the tenant. Oh, by the owner. For the tenant on behalf of the tenant. Different people. Is the owner occupied or do we have a rental? It the petition is from the property owner. Okay. Yeah. On behalf of their tenant. Yeah.

Okay. Any more questions? No. All right. Thanks. Hey, I'll turn it over to the petitioner. All right. Thank you. And you can just click these buttons right here to just move over.

Good evening. Um, oh, you swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth.

I do. Good evening. My name is Brian Tui. My address is 9294 North Meridian and my last name is spelled t u o h y. Thank you for hearing our case this evening. So, uh I represent the petitioner and Greg Rasm is part of the petitioner. He's here with us this evening. And the petitioner's name is Ambrose Mount Comfort V5 RF LLC. And this is a petition, as Maria uh succinctly stated, requesting a special exception to allow food production use in a existing industrial building in an area of other industrial buildings at 2709 North 400 West. And I've I think you guys I assume you guys can see the PowerPoint that I'm sliding through. So, looking at this site, the site's about 54 acres, 54 55 acres. It's right next to Interstate 70. It's just north of it, and it's south of uh West 300 North, and it's east of 400 West. It's just on the north side of I7. It's just uh east of the Transportation Enterprise Leasing. That's a Teel building you see as you drive along 70 or 300. and it's east of University Loft as you see from that uh aerial photograph. There's other industrial uses around it. Progressive Logistics, Peele, Cold, Amazon, US Auto, uh Tassuda, and then you can on the high left hand side, north left hand side of this uh exhibit, you can see Mount Comfort Airport is just over the uh outside the photograph. This building is in existence. It was completed in 2022. It's about 750,000 square ft plus plus. It's been uh it was occupied, but it's been vacant since the spring of 2025. There was formerly a

logistics company that occupied the building. This potential tenant would take about half of the bill, a little more than half of the building, about 60% about 450,000 ft, but they won't go into a lease unless we have this special exception because they have a food production uh operation. So you look at the zoning around the site. The zoning classification is industrial business park IBP in your ordinance and it's includes this site and includes the surrounding sites. All of the sites that touch this site are IBP zone. So very similar zoning. Uh it's just under your IBP ordinance for food production, you have to ask for a special exception and I think Maria explained it. So, because you got to make sure you got the right utility connections, uh, sewer, water, etc. This site plan shows the building, uh, that's in existence. You can see there's 450,000 ft on the right side of that exhibit, and then the remainder of the square footage is on the left side of the site. It's got really good access. There's access drives coming down from the uh, northeast and access road 400 coming down from the northwest. And then there's a road across going east to west across the north end of the building. Um, as she mentioned, this potential user would install two silos on the south side of the building and install some additional parking on the east side of the building. When you're looking at special exceptions that like variances, there's some criteria you go through. And uh the first criteria is whether the special exception is listed in your ordinance. It it is it's in section 15621. It's food and beverage production is listed as a as a a use that requires a special exception. Got to think about whether the special

exception use can be served with adequate utilities, access roads, drainage, and other necessary facilities. This is kind of an interesting situation because you've got an existing building that was occupied and has been approved for zoning. So, we know it's got good access roads. We know it apparently had drainage approved by the county county drainage board. It's got adequate utilities and other facilities because it was in operation from 2022 till the spring of 2025. Um you have to look then whether or not uh it will not involve any element or cause any condition that may be dangerous, injurous or noxious to any other parties or person and shall comply with the development standards. All of the use will be operated within this building. So the food production is all contained inside the building and will not cause any condition that may be dangerous, injurious or noxious. And uh they'll have a significant exhaust system uh to provide filtration and a scrubber system to mitigate odors. Uh no no odors and no obnoxious odors are anticipated outside the building. No noise other than the type of noise you'd expect in a warehouse distribution operation and there wouldn't be any vibrations that you would get uh from this type of operation. The special exception shall be sorted, oriented, and landscaped to produce an harmonious relationship. Again, it's an existing building. It has landscaping. That landscaping was reviewed and approved through Hancock County in 2022. Uh, the special exception shall provide a total visual impression and environment, which which is consistent with the environment of the neighborhood. Well, the environment of this neighborhood is industrial buildings and this is another industrial building. Uh other than to the far northeast, uh there is uh some certainly some residential property that is separated from this area by a substantial burm and a and a pretty

substantial treed area. The special exception shall organize vehicular access and parking to maximize or minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood. Again, they had a logistics building in there and it's got very good access and so this uh this use uh will not affect uh uh it it won't affect traffic congestion.

Thank you. The special exception shall preserve the purpose of the zoning ordinance. The zoning ordinance calls for this use to be approved by a special exception. So again, thank you for hearing our case. In summary, it's a listed use the existing industrial buildings near other industrial building and industrial zone property. Uh the use is compatible with existing and future nearby industrial use. This approval will allow for occupancy of a substantial portion of a currently vacant building and once operational staff this proposed tenant would create approximately 105 jobs. no known remmonstrance at the time I wrote this and the planning staff which we have appreciated working with them recommended approval with one condition which the petitioner agrees to as part of this variance. So, thank you for hearing our case.

Thanks. Questions? Just a couple. Um, would you still need a special exception for a subsequent tenant if the current tenant vacates? Me. And did you say would I want the special exception to run with the building if the current tech tenant vacates? Typically, we have a requirement that if it ceases to operate over 12 months, the special exception will automatically terminate. Would you be comfortable with that requirement? Essentially, yes. Runs with the teny. Okay. Yes. But if I got if this tenant left and we backfilled it with another tenant that was a similar business within 6 months or eight months, whatever, then I want this special exception to stay in place.

We're approving this based upon the operations and brand and elsewhere of this tenant. Yeah. Um we wouldn't then have an opportunity to look at another tenant. Yeah. With matching well abilities. Yeah. I mean, if if a food processing business came in and comes in and like the logistics business last two or three years and then leaves, you know, that building will have some infrastructure in it that would be set for a food processing business. And if they backfilled that within a less than a year period, I'd want that special exception to still be viable.

If it it was it was 12 or 13 months, then no, we got to come back and see you. What licenses or permits are required to operate this business? Okay. Okay.

And couple questions I have for you or property owners representative is I know this uh parking lot area does have a setup for an oil water separator just from runoff from the vehicles. But now that we're adding two silos, we may I strongly advise that those need to be looked at to account for those silos. Secondly, also uh oil water separators for the sanitary since this is now going to become food processing. No, county doesn't own the sanitary in that section, but that's still something that's very then create a lot of havoc. Yeah, I I thought the staff did a pretty good job when they came up with the commitment. Uh the way they wrote it because I think the way they wrote it, we got it right here includes the uh in order to obtain the permit to do the work in this in the building like the silos and the other things that will be need to be done for this tenant.

Yeah. And I'm sure that'll come up through that process as well. Exactly. just said let's she he said or she Kayla said the petitioner must present a tap fee receipt or proof of approval from Aqua the sanitary sewer provider. So they were thinking about that I think when they made that commitment and we're fine with that. Yeah. And I figured that was the case. I just wanted to make sure that you and the owners were aware of that as well just because that is going to become an issue as you go through this permitting process. I agree and and they understand that.

All right. I'm good. the the petitioner is technically the building owner, right? So, in his comment that they could backfill with another tenant of the same use, they could do that because they're the special exception belongs to belongs to the real estate. Am Yeah, Ambrose, the owner. It would it would just be if they sold the building to another owner that it would all the way. Yeah. Unless you make a condition that says otherwise.

Yeah. Because we have this condition that we sometimes tack on that says that the special exception shall be limited to and run with the petitioner or an assenee or affiliate of the petitioner in which the petitioner has and maintains a controlling interest. Or we could make it very specific and say that the special exception shall be limited to and run with the petitioner. We would for their future tenants. We would appreciate not doing that. Okay. Um reason being as you all know those buildings out there they trade hand. M

I mean Ambrose may sell to Prologess and or Prologus may buy from Ambrose or Browning might buy a building and um I we would respectfully request that it not be like that. There's no I I don't know that that would happen but those buildings do change hands. I think you're covered by this 12 month period that they got to get a permit within 12 month 12 months and then if it's if it's vacant for 12 months it ends. We're fine with that. Okay.

But tech technically the special exception will will go with the petitioner. So, we should probably put a condition on there that it could go with the petitioner's tenants, right? The fact that um stays with food production and let's say it's another company that it would be allowed to continue unless you wanted to say another company comes the special exception would stand provided that they get another You could do that. That would be typical because don't know the character

the next business subsequent and they would just have to get the additional tap feeds and it we would just understand the proper operation of the subsequent business. Okay. which I could agree with that because I mean we have food production now but if say a bottling company comes in obviously the water demands will probably increase versus food where the water demands aren't as potentially at as high. I I think we'd be okay with the special exception if the user changes that condition staying in place that that user's got to get approval from Aqua Source who whoever the utility provider is.

Yeah. They'd have to get a new ILP. Yeah. Or or a serve letter. Yeah. I think that's seems fair because I think what you're saying is if someone comes in and all of a sudden the water usage quadruples. You got to know that the utility provider can handle that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we'd be okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. Any more questions for the petitioner? All right. All right. Thanks. Thank you for your time. Yeah. Uh do we have anybody that wants to be in opposition to this? Got two. Okay. Start with We can start with Larry. He had his hand up first, I guess. So, first come, first serve. already sworn in. Already sworn in.

Remember the seven minutes is in total.

Okay, I will be fast for my fellow Hancock neighbor. Um I'll represent uh or I will reference 3A the um I again I just want them to be a good neighbor. Um 3A the exhaust. This production includes the frying process that will include an exhaust system with a a uh filtration and wet scrubber system uh to assist in mitigating any odor. No significant odors outside the building are anticipated. Um if the scrubber filter isn't working, do they shut down? Who polices it? Who stops their production? If odors continue for many days, there's, you know, this Yes. He says it's a complex, but I almost say someone's houses in their doorstep. You got right across the highway, you've got houses. Um, yes, it's an industrial area, but we weren't good about taking houses out of our areas and zoning. So, we have houses relatively close to this. So being a good neighbor, are they going to shut down if their system shuts down? Secondly, you brought up the oil, the outside, the filtration. When they're filling these these huge tanks, what's in place to make sure that that oil is contained? Are they going to build something? Who's going to approve all that? And then I'm going to reference um 2 a uh traffic. Um our our uh one second, let me pull it up. Our uh

Hancock County thoroughfare plan um has 300 as a major has 400 as a major. Then what feeds 400 other than 300? 200 is a minor. You have to go south to 100 or 40 to hit the next major to feed 400 from the south. It's not 200. 200's a minor. The address of this is 2700. Get off the highway. going to be trucks and traffic coming down 200 to get to 400 to go up instead of coming down. What I asked my good neighbor to do because this complex is multiple buildings. It goes from 400 to 300 on 300 North. So, it's a mile stretch of buildings. the building that is supposed to be between right off of 300 east, I'm sorry, west, 400 west and 300 west. The the building in that complex can't come. It's it's requiring everything to go out 300 300 north. I request that their shipping receiving address states an address off of 300 north rather than 400 north. That way you don't have trucks coming down 400 running the risk of overshooting it. have it have that whole complex coming off of 300 North rather than put any kind of truck traffic on any other country road because 300 is where all

your industrial is based out of your Amazon, your trucks, everything else is off of that. You've got it and he has that the the warehouse plan. The warehouse plan is an update. You got a brand new warehouse right on right along the road there. So again, I asked them to be good neighbors. And I think that's the biggest thing we need is everything coming off of 300 because that's the road it's designed for. That's the road the county is designing for. And I ask them, please keep truck traffic off of everything but 300 North.

Okay. Yep. Anybody else? Come on up. A little under three minutes. You swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but I do. State your name, spell your last name. Brian German. J A R M. Right.

Yeah. Um I've already talked with the uh petitioner and worked out a request that they add additional screening on the Birming. So I am the property on the northeast corner that is residential. Um, and I also represent the land owner that is the woods. Um, and so I've requested that they add fencing um, on those BMS to further provide security, pollution control, noise, all that good stuff. They have agreed to that. And so really I would just wish that I would just like us to reduce that to the record as a condition. Um, so that that we all are playing in the good meets and bounds. Um, I don't know if you all want to speak to what those conditions were that were negotiated, but um, I think that's it. Thank you. Thank you.

Anybody else want to speak in opposition? All right. You have some rebuttal period. You can

confirm that uh, condition. If it's if it's okay with the BC, I'll take the rebuttal backwards. I'll take the second remmonstrator uh first. I he's not really much of a remmonstrator. He's right. We've worked out a deal. The deal that we agreed to, which we can I'll make part of the record, is if the special exception gets approved, and if this tenant occupies the building, then we'll install a fence at the northeast corner just north of this site. um that will be 250 ft going north and 250 ft going east. And that fence will be 6 foot tall chain link with vinyl slats or wooden fence. So if you can picture, if I'll go back to my exhibit here. So you see that site map there at the northeast corner of that light blue uh box. There's two streets. There's an intersection. And we'll go 250 ft north on the north south street and 250 ft east on the east west street. In addition to that, we'll put another 250 ft in length of fence on top of the burm up near uh where 300 is. And this drive comes back at a location to be agreed upon by Mr. Gar and the petitioner. and they worked that out this afternoon and we're fine with that. I want to make that part of the record. Uh, as to the first gentleman, I I didn't quite get where he lives. Are are you a neighbor of this property?

I'm within a Okay, good. Um, and his his first or second issue was traffic. I would my comment about that is a food processing business is likely to have significantly less traffic than a logistics business uh that was in there before or could be in there today without a special exception. Um I don't want to tinker with the address of this building because I think that's assigned probably by this uh the county minute remaining. I'm sorry. You have one minute.

Okay. And so I would rather not change the address. That's the address the site's been given for fire service and everything else. I I don't think that's a good idea. The if the scrubber shut down and the odor gets pretty noxious, I suspect Kayla and her team will hear about it and they'll have the right to go out there and do whatever they can do under enforcement. So no, I don't want to say we'll just immediately shut the business down because I I don't know their operation that well. and and if a scrubber failed and there wasn't any smoke coming or smoke or smell coming out of it, then there wouldn't be any reason to shut it down. So, I would respectfully disagree with that gentleman on those two items. Thank you. Any additional questions?

Great. I have one um about the dying on the um oil tanks and I think u Mr. understand raised that the putting something so that the oil doesn't spill. Yeah. Will your oil tanks have spill protection?

I again I don't know that but um we we would not be able to build those oil tanks unless they met IDM and Kayla's uh requirements. So, I I think I know enough about oil tanks that you have to have some spill protection on any kind of them, uh, both from IDM and from the local municipality. So, they'll they'll meet those permit requirements if and when they decide to put those in. All right. Any uh discussion on conditions?

I do think it'd be wise to add the conditions of the fence in the three locations as discussed to the conditions already put in place. Yes, they made it a matter of record, but yeah, I think we ought to put that on the written conditions as well. And we also discussed the special exception being with the the tenant and if there's a future tenant of same use that uh it would continue if they re if they were able to obtain the utility tap fee receipts. I think so.

I guess the thing is that they could potentially not need an ILP. So, so that the tap P receives enough to kind of trigger that that everybody knows it's a different different tenant probably. Make a motion or approved. Staff conditions would attach add as a subsection 1B to obtain a permit that all item and local requirements for oil tank addressed. Number two, that there will be a fence installed at a northeast corner six foot high made of either wood or chain slats, 250 ft on the north, and 250 that the special exception will cease if uh automatically cease if the business fails to operate for a 12 month conse that the BCA reserves the right to revoke our typical uh right to revoke the special exception at an advertised public hearing if the activity and that the special exception shall run with the not be transferable to any owner or entity and should the tenant or user change a new aqua approval with receipt of tap fees shall be submitted.

Also a second location for third location. Yeah. By the road on the burm. Yeah. Okay. Then add the third location. I didn't get the the distance. It was an an additional 250 ft. Correct. Yes. An an additional additional 250 ft at the third location. Yep. So, we're looking about 750 ft in I think I think your motion about or your condition about the not be transferable to any other owner. I think that's what he was talking about. He didn't want to do because the building could change change hands by investment companies or whatever. And so, pretty standard. Yeah.

Yeah. So I I think what we were going for was to um runs with the petitioner and if there is a tenant change they must get Yeah, that doesn't work either. That would be I just I would need to stick I would I would stick with that just because um that we I mean that's just my motion.

So under that condition if the building were to sell the new owner would just find that in due diligence and address it as part of their uh due diligence period. I suppose. So, so if the tenant stayed in, they'd have to come back and get another

Yeah, cuz it go Yeah, because it is staying with and under that condition, it's staying with the petitioner, which is the building owner. So, it seems like I've always I've always thought that was a little tough on some of these commercial properties, but is occupied. Um I don't know that we can assign a special exception to the real estate. I think it has to go with a petitioner, right? With the person with a business or something.

So long as this partic this is this is the combination that we're presented with. So it just seems this many other times. The combination of this practitioner with this occupant sometimes owner just we know what's in front of us with this package. The situation is this. If you if we if if they're if they're fortunate enough to get a tenant like this, which they think they are, but like all real estate deals until you get to the closing, they may sign a 15-year lease. And in that that will make that building attractive to

a REIT or a life insurance company or somebody that wants a long-term uh AAA investment. Mhm. And so to have this special exception terminate on the sale of that building

really doesn't work for this kind of commercial property. It might work for a small business, but it wouldn't work for this. Mhm. So we could we could attach it to the to the petitioner or tenant and and the tenant. What I'm worried about there is they have one certainly in mind that they've worked very close to the what we have a deal. But if another tenant comes in uh with a similar business, it's not ABC food. Instead, it's XYZ food. we wouldn't want that special exception to end. Um, and I think that what will protect you is that if it includes that any tenant has to get approval from Aquaource or who the various utilities

to operate their business prior to operating. I think that protects what you're concerned about and allows them to go out and find another food producing tenant should they need to do that. But to to have it terminate if they're not the owners of the building is is it just it doesn't work in a commercial real estate setting. Mhm. Didn't we do something with the one of the lumber yards or they were able to off special exception

to an assigne or an affiliate? It was basically he wanted to be able to hand it down to his kids essentially. Could we could we put a situation where they could hand that off? But they would I mean usually you just would have to just come in and apply for a special exception that it hasn't been a um not noxious operation. No, you know just if you come in for a renewal yeah like a renewal and they don't have to come for us

particular to the individuals special exception that was that's the intention. nothing. If everything's been going great, then it's just approved. That's But like file it. They have to come. They don't really have to come before us. No. No. Unless we require it. Yeah. Unless we require order it or it expires. So been my understanding. Correct. So the special exception will last. So they just like filing like for a permit. They'd have to just

We we certainly wouldn't have any problem notifying the planning department if the building changed hands. But again, um this is and I appreciate your example. It's a little different than handing the business down to your sons or daughters. I understand that if if the if a if a potential if they first off if they get a lease and that creates then a valuable asset that the uh a life insurance company wants to own as part of its portfolio. Then if you tell the life insurance company, well, you got to apply for a per uh another special exception. Not that it's a bad deal coming before you guys, but that's a process that takes some time that that may that may not allow the sale to go through. But I mean I mean I there a way we can make it almost like a permit process where not where they have to come before us but they have to like make acknowledgement that they're it's changing hands. I guess

we would certainly have no problem with a commitment that uh uh obligated the buyer and seller to notify the planning department of a change in ownership. That that's that and ahead of time. We have no problem with that. Annual occupancy permit.

An annual occupancy permit. Do other businesses have those home occupations? Generally, typically home occations, they come in and get an annual occupancy permit. Something we have on hand. Yeah. I don't know if that would be appropriate for this. I just I just kind of think that like our standard our standard condition number four, if it were to run with the petitioner and their current tenant or future tenants or a new owner under an existing permit and any future tenants would be required to get this um utility tap fee receipt and you just kind of cover all those people. Yeah,

I guess I would I'm just wondering why the company that's moving in isn't the applicant for the special exception because we just had one at the very start of this meeting where the special exception was granted to the landscaping business but yet the mom and dad owned the home for the variance purpose, right? So, and then if the tenant changes, then the new company would come in and get the special exception and we could make these determinations about its unique use.

In this case, the the tenant told the owner, "We're not going to enter into a lease unless we know we got the right to have a food production business on this site." And so the the it it it it the the granting of it makes the building attractive to this tenant and perhaps if if they flush out other food production tenants. So that's that's why petitioner they is the owner of the building and not this food production tenant who also wanted to remain anonymous.

No, because it wasn't advertised that way. Yeah, I think when I said they want to remain anonymous, I think a lot of people know who it is, but

I think this board needs to know who it is, quite frankly. And I I I'm almost wondering if you want to have a condition that says um that it's only applicable to this tenant. I would appreciate not doing that because if for some reason they don't lease it then we'd certainly want to find if we could find another we think this is a good use we'd find try to find another use

some of these conditions are designed specifically for them like the the IDM requirements right so we we really do need to know what's coming into our Was that a recent meeting? Right. The user was a public meeting. More aware of it than I am. Foods LLC. Is that okay that we talk about that a little bit more? It's fine if you talk about it. Okay. Okay. So, I'm not going to tell you not to.

I mean, it was at a public meeting. Yeah. So, Sugar Foods LLC came to a recent town I'm sorry. Um, council

council. That was it. Thank you. Council meeting and uh worked out a an abatement. Um, a very good one that everyone was very happy with, limited to whatever they very much just needed. I think fiveyear was it. um and uh and kind of talked about their company and how this was um quite a few jobs and that's why they're increasing the passenger car parking area rather than the semitr parking area for this structure. Um seemed like the jobs were well paying. They hoped to be long-term partners with Hancock County was the gist of it. And so I know they left happy from that council meeting. I don't disagree with the thing she said.

Yeah. So, so essentially we could we could tie it to this tenant essentially and then if there was a different tenant we just go through it again essentially. You'd be doing the same thing. So, reasonable to me. What about the person that made the motion? I we we put this requirement on so many things. standard and page after page after page. Well, that that condition of it running with the petitioner that that could

I wish I mean if the petitioner were the it would be a little my first question. Are we talking with the tenant? Are we That's always my the who we're dealing with. Well, I represent the owner who is the petitioner, not the tenant. Correct. Yeah.

Um given a very fine recitation of some events. Um um I I I would suggest perhaps the way you could uh form your motion is that it would be a motion to approve with the staff conditions. Uh a motion to approve with the fence condition as described and uh perhaps a motion to approve uh subject to the uh tenant as described by Kayla if that's u's preference. I think he just restated what you said with the exception of the special exception. You you still want it to run with the petitioner is your motion. I I got to be able to sell the building if if that comes up and not force that new owner to come back through another special exception

for you as a contingency. I mean that yeah all right but kind of in agreement with you that's consult the kind of the risk of doing business. You always have that regardless of who you are and where you're at. Would it be acceptable if a condition were added that the special exception could be revoked if the property becomes a nuisance or is not in good terms with the public utilities? It's already in my That's it that was in the motion. Yeah. Or I would add to that this board. Mhm. Yeah. I read that the Yeah. And I think would you agree that would cover everything or would we still lack in some? That's like that's number five of seven usually.

Yeah. It's just it's it's all Yeah. I mean it's just standard we put into all of them. It probably good to include these in the future in our It doesn't have to be though because this is so specific to each use on this particular site. So which ones make sense tonight for this use on this site?

And I want you guys to be very strategic in what we are asking the petitioners to follow. But in this case, when we looked up why food and beverage facilities might be a concern for local planning offices, um what Maria had cited, those um fats, oils, and greases, those are primary. What damage potentially could a use like this due to public utilities? Do we have the utilities to serve it? And in this case, that is verified through Aqua and it's HAP fees receipt. So from my office's perspective, they're follow they will follow the expected permitting and and review everything like that. Um but what I will be looking for most closely on a use like this is that receipt or letter of approval from Jim Shields at Aqua because we do have warehouse uses where they were built as warehouses or spec buildings. And if they don't go and tell Aqua, hey, we're changing uses to something that uses a lot of water, has a lot of liquids, then maybe Aqua is misled about that and it gets taken out on our sewer system, which we as a community are using. That's where that is the key thing in this particular situation for planning and zoning is that we're on good terms with Aqua with this as a use. Yeah,

certainly we wouldn't have any issue with a commitment or condition that any next user any user that comes to this site, let's say it that way, would have to come up with a permit and an approval letter from Aqua. So if this tenant left after 2 years and a very similar tenant came in, the condition would require that similar tenant to one notify Kayla and two get an approval letter from Aqua. I think that would cover the issue you're worried about. That was in my motion. Yeah. Yeah. That

that's the issue is the non-ransferability of the That's the issue I think we're Yeah, I mean if we're we put that condition in a lot of times, but in reality it's just kind of there by right. I mean if a special exception would would be tied to the petitioner. So in that this case it's the building owner. So if we're silent on it, that's not ideal to the building owner because they would have a hard time marketing it for sale. So see I mean this is a way to get an empty building uh at least 60% occupied and uh without going into the details of the negotiations uh this particular tenant would have options to occupy the rest of it in not too long a time period. So that uh we think that's a very positive thing and uh while they sometimes hold on to buildings for a long time, fully occupied building would be a very attractive asset for a a long long-term asset holder like an insurance company or a pension fund or something like that. And uh as as long as it was the same tenant had already gotten the aqua approval and you knew they were operating in a good fashion, wouldn't want to have that new owner have to go through the same process to transfer the uh special exception. I wouldn't have any trouble with the new owner notifying Kayla of the change of

ownership. And then if the user changed then that new user has to as uh motion uh would have to come and get that approval letter. We don't have a problem with that but I

I'm fine amending to be silent on the non-tra that is probably going to be requ of a reminder to you than a new rule for us. I'm fine staying silent and great option might be to transception to the ten that's probably the best way to handle it. You're just in in an awkward have really the tenant name

we are in an equally awkward spot that that's just the fact of a special exception and how you're procedural item that's all. So, I'm fine amending just to to take out the non-transferability just the matter of course for a special exception for the All right. Does anybody u like that amended motion enough to second it? Second. All right. It has been moved and seconded uh that should the special exception be approved, it would be subject to the conditions as stated that I hope that you recorded.

Can I clarify one of the special exception or the number five? It was what I have as number five. When you say you're taking out the non-transferability, can you just read that one? Yeah. So um it will if a the tenant or the user changes a new uh aqua permit will be required with submitt of the tap fees receipt to staff. just gonna stay silent on

still have the one you have this two the one one a that's listed in staff conditions and have it tank the IDM and then the fence special exception if it um ceases to exist if the business ceases for 12 months and the BCA can revoke if there's a public nuisance and then the one that you just read. Back with you. Thank you. Okay. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Same sign. Motion carries. Oh, we're voting. We got to vote now. Said we're voting now. That was the condition.

Yeah. Feels like it's going to vote.

Yeah. [Music] It is virtually just reminders. Okay. Okay. Case number 25-2625 for the special exception to allow food production, manufacturing, and distribution in IBP zoning is granted. A vote of 520.

All right. Thanks for hanging in there with us. Okay. Item number four, J Singh, commercial neighborhood special exception, Sugar Creek Township. That's a good point. [Applause] Last item on the agenda is um a special exception. Um petitioner is Jing um and David Gilman. Uh the subject property is located on the southeast corner of US 52 in Coral Road. Um it is located in the Sugar Creek Township uh in a commercial neighborhood zoning district. Uh the petitioner is requesting a special exception to allow a fueling station. So in your package you should see um a site plan. This is the site plan um that the petitioner has provided. The petitioner also has provided some site renderings uh illustrating the proposed site development of the sub subject property. The rendering rendering shows the convenience store um the gas station among along with the um multi-tenant commercial building.

So in our land use matrix um a fuel station gas station it is in the CN district it is a special exception. Uh therefore they are here tonight requesting that in our CN district uh it states that um the intent to provide convenience good services and amenities with close proximity to residential. And below that it shows a vicinity map of the zoning of of the property. So there is um commercial neighborhoods surrounding it along with some residential um zoning as well. Um so in the nature of this site um we see this um being an inappropriate use for this location. Um so for the special exception, the justification that um planning staff um took into consideration is um the location of it. It is right um between the um county lines of Marian County and Hancock County. Um this would um enhance this area uh and provide um an amenity for um people coming into the county. So this is a special exception. So there are um conditions that the board may apply and other considerations um like landscaping uh traffic traffic generate generation um and other site layouts. And then staff is recommending uh approval with the following conditions that the proposed development um shall go to tech committee for the site development review and approval prior to any um issuance of permits. The subject property um shall be plotted as a commercial subdivision and be recorded prior to any issuance of any ILP or

building permits. um building permits or ILOP uh related to the special exception must be obtained within the 12 month approval date and any um occupancy permit must be obtained within 12 months of the approval of the permits um or the spokes exception is automatically expire. Uh and then the final condition is the board of zoning appeals reserves the right to revoke the spokes exception um if this pro proves to be a um public nuisance. Questions for the staff?

Nothing. All right. Thanks. We have the petitioner come up. Same thing. Okay. Just the arrows. This one. Affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth. I do. State your name. Spell your last name.

Thank you. For the record, my name is David Gilman. My address is 211 South Ritter Avenue, Sweeth, Indianapolis, Indiana 46219. Um, I represent Jay Singh. Jay is the petitioner and he's the owner and he'll be the developer for the the fuel station. Um just to kind of let that be known out front. Um so this property is um the special exception is to allow a service station. The property is already zoned CN. Uh Mr. seeing is buying a larger track of land and on this corner the the southeast corner of Carol Road in US 52 um is where he has it um marked for a fuel a fueling station. Um we do have other renderings and drawings that I'll present to you that shows a little bit more of the development so you get a big picture. Right now this area is sort of right in the middle between New and Post Road. Um 3 miles to New 3 and a half miles to Post Road. So you have the fields of Grassy Creek that's developing immediately to the south. So it's a logical um trend of development to see this type of neighborhood type commercial uses follow the rooftops that are being developed in the area. Uh the sites um 3 and a half miles to Post Road the other fuel stations just to give you perspective. Um the nearest fuel stations three and a half miles on Post Road, three miles uh to New Pal to the east, five miles north to the new Wawwa at US 40 and 600 West, and then 7 miles or more down to I74 to the south. The fuel station will have a uh convenience store that serves both cold and hot foods. Um would be about 4,500 square ft. It would have six pumps. The next slide is um this is a site plan which depicts

what will be um in phase one. Uh phase one will include uh the fuel station right on the corner and then about a 16,500 square f foot multi-tenant retail center. Um both of these would be as staff mentioned in their conditions of approval would be subject to commercial platting um and TAC review and should we u receive our special exception tonight. We already have started a lot of our preliminary engineering to make sure that we have all the necessary utilities um lined up for the development that can support this development. and we would anticipate finalizing that civil design work to submit to the tech review and the plan commission between November and December of this year. Uh construction would hopefully begin um as early as possible in 2026. The one thing that we did a little bit beyond and above is we've given you several renderings. I have about 14 that I presented to the staff for their file. We picked about four or five that sort of would give you an idea of what this is going to look like in the first phase that you'll see under construction next year. My client is investing right around8 to$10 million on this corner. Um we wanted to make sure that what we uh established out there set a good precedent and um we do have um other outlots that'll be developed and we want to make sure that this sets the precedent to have highquality um end users on those outlots. We will have a private road that um will service all of our property. Um we would um have that from Carroll Road going um uh back out to 52 and um we um have already been in contact with both INDOT on our access road um our drive permits um our

drainage and um so far we've received uh positive feedback and we feel that we could easily comply with their design criteria. This is another perspective of the site just looking southeast direction. Um the one thing that we did talk to staff that they were um concerned about is the canopy. So we wanted to make sure that the canopy was uh as attractive as possible. So we have all masonry columns that will match the brick on the building. We have a a thinner sleek type canopy um so that it doesn't it's not the most focal point uh right there on that corner. And again, um there'll be plenty of landscaping um throughout the property on both street frontages. We have a variety of materials on the building. We have masonry, metal um panels um and um uh window treatment on three of the four sides of the building. The one thing we add this uh view to the back since we will have outlots facing the back. All four sides of the of the building are are u finished uh with masonry uh product. And again, we will screen our our mechanicals and um to make sure that the back is as attractive as the sides or the fronts. There's just a closer perspective of what it would look like um from the rear as you enter off our private drive.

Thank you. Um I do have um our design criteria or I'm sorry decision criteria. We um we feel that we've met every one of them. Um I can go through those on an individual basis. Um but they are included in your packets. If you would have any questions, I'd be glad to answer any one of those. But um as the staff mentioned, I think this is a use that's appropriate for this corner. It fits the area. I think the commitments that we've made um will ensure that it's a high quality development and again my client will be the owner and petitioner. So we would hope that this would be um an issue that um as far as his ability to continue to use this as a fuel station andor another owner use it as a fuel station would not be an issue. But um with that I'm happy to answer questions that board members would have. So you you're saying that you want you want the special exception to be tied to the ground. You don't want it tied to the petitioner just like our last case where we were

just be silent on it, I guess, is my only recommendation. And the reason I would say that is this is a fuel station. It's not like we're going to get another user that would be any different. It's going to be a fuel station whether it's a BP, a Shell, or you know, a Waw Wa. it's still going to be a fuel station. If they wanted to make changes to it, they obviously have to come in and get those permits to make the modifications or changes. Um, after listening to the last two, there's something that I think would work and it might be um something that I would offer is that the change of ownership would have to come in and get a zoning endorsement letter just to make sure that the new user, the new owner is in compliance and knowledgeable of all the conditions of the special exception approval. It's almost like constructive notice. This is how it was approved. Here's your zoning endorsement letter. so you know this is exactly the uh requirements that you'll need to comply with. Um or some type of I don't know I would just call it a zoning endorsement letter. Um that's very common for businesses and owners when they do change ownerships they often uh come to the planning and building departments to get that endorsement so that they feel comfortable that that use is is appropriate and permitted. So, we don't we don't know who the what the flag is or whatever. What type of convenient? We don't know if it's a speedway.

Yes, I can tell you that. It it will be a BP, my client. That is correct, Jay. Right. You're going with the BP here? Yeah. So, that it really won't look like this. It'll be green and white and lit up like crazy then. I'm not seeing what you're looking at here. Whatever's on the screen here. Yeah. the red. Oh, that's that's the retail building. So, so what's the what's happening in the in this industry? The BP Shell, whoever brand that you're using, they only care about the canopy and the sign and the pumps. You can build the Taj Mahal store

as long as they can advertise on the canopy, the pumps, and the sign. And so that's why you're starting to see these customized um filling stations that have very nice looking buildings because they're allowed to do that as opposed to the back in the day when the entire property had to be advertised for that brand all over the place. It's not like that anymore. I I didn't catch what you were saying about these curb cuts off of 52. I mean, that surprised me when I saw the site plan that you had two two cuts off of 52. I mean, they they are strict on that.

Yes, we've submitted um to INDOT both for our um initial review on the site plan for the access and for the um the drainage along 52. And again, they've given us their design criteria. The only thing that they wanted to u make sure of on the on the access drives was a distance of separation and we've met that distance requirement and that's the only thing that they've asked of us. A new softer kinder gentler INDOT

staff has one comment here. We do have a meeting set up with IND. Greenfield office to discuss this particular uh drive setup to make sure we're all okay. And also this would go to the technical committee where the highway uh department would review um at least what was in the jurisdiction of the county. Did you have any discussions like you know we had that one project up on Mount Comfort Road where you worked with the petitioner and got them to rotate the site plan so that the canopy wasn't the front face of the project. We did discuss that briefly. Um I'll let Mr. Gilman talk about that.

Yeah, that won't work. Um, again, when I mention that they'll allow you to do a lot of things with the building, but they want that canopy to advertise their brand because they they're in the business of selling fuel, BP, Shell, whoever it may be, they they need that uh exposure on that traveled US52. But in respect to that comment, because Kayla and I had that discussion, we went through to make the canopy. Normally the BP canopies that you see the green and yellows, they're 33 in. This is only going to be 19 in. And there's not going to be a large BP logo. There's going to be the BP emblem that that is embossed on the on the sign. And then we did the all brick masonry columns to make it sleek and match the building. And we did that again so um it was more um customized so that wouldn't be the most thing that caught your eye um as you drove by was the canopy.

Previously when we've seen fueling stations come in front of the BCA. We've seen um returning requests for other variances or special exceptions for signage or you anticipate that you're going to be back here for anything that after you've gone through this?

I don't. And here's why. This is undeveloped property. The way I look at it, it's a clean canvas. We shouldn't have to meet any design criteria. The only criteria, and again, Kayla and I will probably have this conversation, and it probably will not be an issue. It would be the BP sign because I think we're going to go with ground signs, one on Carol and one on um US52. We show a pylon sign, but I wanted to make that very clear. You're not approving a pylon sign. It's just happens to be the one my architect picked and he he put on the drawings, but do not ask

do not in any way feel that you are approving that. Kayla's already red flagged that to me and and I just didn't have time to take it off before the hearing. But no, the only thing we're asking you to approve is the um is the the special exception for the fuel station. And in my decision criteria, I did mention that one of the reasons I think we meet all the criteria is that we will meet those uh development standards in the CN um that the ordinance would require us for landscaping, access, parking, etc. Have we already asked you if you were okay with the four staff recommendations for conditions?

You haven't, but we are. Sometimes we say that the presentation of the plan or the the final product must be in substantial conformance to the plans presented exception of the sign. Um and that's perfectly acceptable. And if it ceases to operate over a 12-month period, the special exception will automatically

Yeah. And the reason we went a little bit extra to provide you the renderings is we wanted to show you that this is going to be super nice. You'll really be proud of this when you get out there because we have a huge my client has a huge investment in other outlots and we got to get off to a really great start. We got a brand new subdivision to the south. We hope that we're going to get a lot of of of those homeowners and and families as our our customers in that retail center. We'd like to get, you know, little restaurant in there, a lot of little um things that will support the neighborhood. And and again, we're right in the middle between New Pound and Indie, so we're in a really good spot in our opinion. Uh, one other one would be we reserve the right at the BCA to modify or revoke the special exception if it constitutes a public nuisance as at an advertised public hearing.

Yes. And I did miss the transfer request that we stay silent on it. We don't have a process right now to have a validation of that in the future. Staying silent might allow us you to activate that. Fair enough. Okay. Um, any more questions for the petitioner? Um, does your client own the BP station at Post Road as well? No. No.

That's a good question because that's I live near there and that's not one of my favorites. All right. People don't go there. They're scared of it. So yeah. So but um my client does have other BP stations and in retail centers and they're the first class. That's why we obviously are very comfortable sharing what we did with you tonight. What would be some of those facil where where are those at? You want to come up and get sworn in? Actually, I think I know where one's at. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth? And I do

spell your last name for the record, please. Uh, first name Jay, last name Singh, S I N G H. Answer. So, go ahead. No, go ahead, Jay.

So, um, I I totally I own about 27 sea stores, gas stations, and, uh, all around the city as well as in Louisville, Kentucky. and re very recently we're the first one to end up buying a Thornton gas station right in Louisville. So, uh in a process of renovating so they do trust us. Um uh we do have several stores. We have uh stores in um in Zensville. Uh we just recently opened and uh it's it's a BP gas station. Um other than that, we have uh uh a gas station right south of Lucas O Stadium. It's Western Morris and we have several stores. Um it's on uh 65 highway 65 and if you travel 65 down south like I have a good oil company good to go stores and they are family-owned business since 1947 and we are partners and uh they they they will be my jobers my fuel jobers and uh we will be naming this uh good to go as well so everybody can use uh you know their uh like loyalty program and all that stuff.

Yeah. All right. Thank you.

Any more questions? No. All right. Thank you for petition. Do we have anybody that wants to speak in opposition to this petition? Nobody. All right. Um any discussion amongst the board for conditions and the like? Uh should this motion or should this uh special exception be approved? All staff recommendations on positions will um accompany and then add four. Uh number five, the number five would be the final product as constructed will be in substantial conformance to the plans as presented tonight with the exception of anything that has not been approved by technical committee or um transportation such as signage. Number six, if the site ceases to operate under the approval of the special exception, it will automatically expire. Um and that would be ceases to operate um 12 consecutive months. And uh the BZA reserves the right to modify or re revoke the special exception if site constitutes a public nuisance and that occur at an advertised public hearing.

Seven. Second. All right. moved and seconded that should the special exception be approved it be subject to the stated conditions all those in favor signify by saying I

oppose same sign motion carries can vote [Applause] Okay. case number 25-2626 for the special exception to allow a fueling station in CN zoning. The special exception is granted a vote of 5 to zero.

Thank you very much. Thanks for hanging with us all evening. Okay, I had an agenda somewhere. All right, that's uh concludes all of our petition items for this evening. We'll move on to other business. Item number one was the election of officers. That's uh really officer. It would be for the position of vice president. Uh um

should we quickly uh announce Jason now that he's left the room? Just kidding. I thought we were going to hold off on that. We can. That's what I was just We were talking about that earlier is the plan commission decided they've got the same situation and they've decided to wait another month. That was mostly because they didn't have a full board, but also because we're so close to the end of the year and we could just do it all at once then. So, um, yeah, if for some reason I wasn't here, you would just have to appoint a president, um, acting president for that meeting, which is Jason.

Jason. Yeah. So, yeah. So, if you want to if somebody wants to make a motion to just, um, we'll just limp along until January. We could we can do that. It's what, two more meetings to appoint should we wait for Jason to come back? We have a I would make a motion to appoint the vice president if needed um at a meeting as well as the president if needed. Sounds reasonable. Okay. Moved and seconded to uh as stated uh to to appoint as needed for the next uh two remaining meetings of the of the year. All those in favor signify by saying I. I

oppose. Same sign deals with that. Um item number two is alternate members rule change. Uh congratulations Mr. Vice President. That's fine. I accept.

So um this can't be adopted tonight because it's you need to look at it one more time. Wait 30 days. Um so we'll if you're okay with what it says now. um then it can be adop adopted or effective in 30 days. So based on the last meeting I tried to incorporate changes to make some of this wording more clear. So let me just kind of go through um I noticed that we had defined the word board and sometimes it was referred to referred to in the document as board of appeals or board of zoning appeals. So you'll see a striketh through we had already defined the word as board to mean this board and then um top of page three there was a code revision so I updated that code site that this is all just cleanup um the statute actually refers to the term chair and vice chair. I think at some point it probably said chairman and vice chairman and then they went through the statute at some point and made that just chair and vice chair. So I took out the word president if it was present which is the chair

cleaned that up and then the language in on page three and four is really the change which um was discussed at the last meeting. Should a vacancy arise mid year for the chair, vice chair, or secretary, the board may elect a replacement from one of its members at any regular or special meeting after duly posting the election as an item on the board's agenda for the meeting. Um, that was something that you wanted if we were going to do uh go through the procedure of making sure that was on the agenda that um it was also in the rules that that item go on the agenda first. Number six is if at any time there is a temporary vacancy, absence or recusal of an officer, the board may appoint another member to serve in the role of the officer who is not present or who has been recused for the duration needed. That kind of goes to what you just adopted um a fill-in person for that night. And then the language on page four, number eight, just tried to clean this up a little bit. So what's in red was what you saw last meeting and then I added what was in green. So just rewarding this to make it a little more clear. Indiana Code 3674907A allows each authority that appoints a member to the board, which that could be the PL, the commissioners, um just depending on who makes this the appointment to this board to also appoint an alternate member to the to participate with the board in any hearing or decision if the regular member it has appointed has a disqualification under Indiana code 367499. That would be when someone wants to recuse themsel because of a conflict of interest or is otherwise unavailable to

participate in a in the hearing or decision. Should the appointing authority appoint an alternate member and the alternate member is called to serve on the board, the alternate member shall have all the all of the powers and duties of the regular member while participating in the hearing or decision. And then we decided to strike that last line um when we were discussing whether the alternate member should serve as the chair or vice chair. We just decided to stay silent on that. I think that recaptures what you were after last meeting. So if this looks good, then it's uh it can be approved tonight and then go into effect in 30 days.

Make a motion we approve rules. Second. Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the U new rules as presented. All those in favor signify by saying I I oppose. Same sign. Um we'll we'll sign it in 30 days or do you want a signed copy tonight? Oh, we don't have a vice chair. So Oh, you said I was You're actually not. We decided that we were going to make it without one for Okay. I don't I didn't care one way or the other. So, if we got to sign it, we'll have to appoint a vice chair.

Yeah. So, we want to wait until next. Okay. So, let's put election of an officer on next meeting's minute or agenda then. Yeah. We'll appoint somebody at the beginning. There's also a provision in here now that says that you can appoint one as needed. So, it would be whoever was appointed for that night. Yeah. If it's Yeah. We will do that then. So looking at our short agenda at 5 minutes till 10, we just have zoning violations report. Let us have it man.

See we were enthusiastic tonight. That second one confusing kind of lost sight there for a while what we were really trying to accomplish. Yeah, I think the petitioner was too. All right. Sorry. Go ahead. I'm going to be very brief. Uh

we just have 26 open violations, most of which are ILP violations and most of which occur in Greenfield. Um, a recurring theme is most of the violators are feigning ignorance on the violations perhaps because dollar is no longer around. I'm the new guy.

Mhm. So I'm trying to establish rapport and suggesting um we give um some of them most of them extensions to bring their property into compliance and then after say a month I I think that's ample time if if their properties are not in compliance and can slap them with as high or as aggressive Mhm. um action as we want to. Okay. I assume there's a there's a list. I assume that you you've got a list of all of these.

Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Sounds good to me. So, the biggest thing I learned doing your job is fair, firm, and consistent. All right. Any questions for Dennis? Nope. Yeah, Dennis. So, if you've got somebody that say they can't get compliant in 30 days, but you know they're making progress, is that acceptable to you? um because

I think it will be on a casebyase basis. If um they're showing genuine interest in complying then perhaps but like it will be on a case by case basis.

Thank you. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, thanks for the report and the easy to read document. So, I just maybe have one request for future conditions. If staff could reference the typical conditions for approval and incorporate which you might want to that's really important that it's disclosed and discussed with the applicants before. I think it's just going to hold us up and they're they're typical I we put them on so many things good to see them back into staff conditions make it much easier. Yeah, I think that yeah, we it it'd make us move a little quicker, I think, through these. So, we can do that. I

mean, I know it's it's impossible to truly anticipate what all of us are going to do, but yeah, I think I agree with that. All right, I think that's all we got. Anybody want to go make a motion we adjourn. All right. Moved a second to adjurnn. All in favor signify by saying I I thank you. Well, thanks guys. 10 10 10:00 not not too bad.