Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

All right. Thank you. Thank you for waiting a few minutes late here, but uh welcome you to the August 28th meeting of the Hancock County Board of Zoning Appeals. Like to advise everybody that your testimony this evening is being recorded and will be taken under oath. Anybody wishing to speak will do so when called upon. uh you'll come up, face our attorney, and be sworn in before speaking. Uh all persons speaking will be asked to give their full name for our record and spell the last name for accurate meeting minutes. Uh please turn off any uh cell phones, electronic devices, or other noise makers that you might have. Um our order of speaking order business is that the petitioner uh will be given a 7 minute time frame to give their presentation followed by a collective seven minutes for the remmonstrators to speak. We offer three minutes to any government officials that would be in attendance. Um, and then we offer a threeminut rebuttal for the petitioner at the end of all of that. Our attorney to my left gives a 2-minut and one minute warning as your time is expiring. Uh, we ask that all persons conduct themselves in a civil manner and if we can't do that, we'll reserve the right to ask you to leave. Uh, this meeting is being recorded and streamed for public viewing. By participating, you acknowledge that your image, voice, and comments may be captured and made publicly available. This meeting has been properly noticed in accordance with Indiana Code 514-1.5. We have a full board this evening. Um, I'm Michael Long, a plan commission appointee. Uh, Scott Rubble is in his first meeting this evening. Uh, he is a board of commissioners appointee. Lacy Willard is a board of commissioners appointee as well. Um Jason Faucet to my right represents uh Shirley and Sandy Casey to my left represents Spring Lake. Uh with that, our first order of business this evening will be the adoption of last month's meeting minutes that were submitted to us electronically.

Move to approve. Second. It's been moved and seconded to approve the July 24th meeting minutes as submitted electronically. All those in favor signify by saying I. I.

Oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. With that, we will move to our agenda. We have four hearing items this morning and or this morning this evening. Sorry, long day. Um and we'll start with number one, which is our um variance for the uh cell phone tower in Sugar Creek Township. We'll start with Kayla if you have a staff report and then we'll call the petitioner. First we'll start off with a summary of what this is. Horizon cell tower varants request is located at 212 West 200 South in Sugar Creek Township. Um the petition timeline how we've gotten to this point April 2025. Um this this petition was first presented. It was continued to the May BCA meeting. uh lack of quorum. May the petitioner requested a continuence to allow for them to conduct further research. In June, the BCA board motioned and continued um to allow for the BCA board member to fury further consider and research the petition. July of 2025, the petition was heard and voted on. Um, a special exception to allow for cell tower in a residential zoning district was granted with a vote of four to zero approved with conditions. Variance one, the setback reduction from a residence was denied

with a vote of 0 to four. Um, variance two to reduce the camouflage requirements was continued due to a tide vote of two to two. And that's where we are tonight is down to this final variance uh for camouflaging of the tower um which is carried on to this meeting from last meeting uh with due to a tied vote. Let's talk about what our ordinance requires. Our ordinance has a telecommunications uh standards section that requires towers um to and antennas to be designed to blend into the surrounding environment through the use of color camouflaging and architectural treatment except where color is dictated by federal or state authorities. That's like the FAA or the airport, things like that. They might require certain colors. Wireless telecommunication towers should generally be of a monopole design and when located within or adjacent to environmentally or aesthetically sensitive areas or a residential district be designed to be architecturally camouflaged as much as reasonably practical to blend into the surroundings. The use of residential com residentially compatible materials such as wood, brick and stone or stone is required um for associated accessory structures which shall be designed to architecturally match the exterior of any adjacent residential or commercial structures within the neighborhood or area. While this area is zoned residentially, the use is still that of a farm field and it's fairly flat in this area. Blending in or camouflaging in such an environment is difficult. Uh, one method

is by using a color for the pole that reflects the sky or is as close to a general sky color as possible. Um, galvanized metal is one option that we frequently see. Um, landscape around the base which is required will help camouflage the base over time along with the associated equipment. The surround surrounding of that equipment can also be considered in this decision. Tonight I did include some pictures of um what in the cell tower industry are called stealth towers, I believe. Um and so you see these in different environments. We've got the the classic pine tree uh tower um for wooded settings or sometimes in mountainous settings. Um, there's a a design that has a windmill on the top, often used for lattice towers. And in other areas, you might see a a large flag pole. Got an updated site plan to go with tonight's petition. This is um after the vote we saw last month's petition um showing the new location which is 502 feet from the nearest house which is on the property. So last month and in previous applications the cell tower was immediately behind the barn which is um south of the current tower lo location. Um, now it has been moved an additional I think approximately 250 ft to be in compliance with our setback requirements. This is along an existing lane that goes back into the field.

We have worked with um the petitioner to ensure that a uh compliance landscape plan will be submitted uh with the application. This just so happens to be the previous site plan underneath. So ignore the existing barn. Um this whole thing is getting moved further back on the site and updated um to reflect comments on the landscape plan. This shows an elevation of the cell tower that was included with plans. You'll see it's a 125 ft monopole tower with a 10-ft lightning rod on the top. You see the eight what's currently shown as an 8ft tall wood fence around the base. And I believe the proposed kind of default finish for a tower like this is galvanized metal. So the variance would allow the petitioner to lessen the design requirements from what we've just discussed as camouflaging. And really this is probably more of an interpretation matter than anything. Um what is it that this board feels is um adequate blending in or contextual design of this cell phone tower given the environment that it is in. Decision criteria that this board can take in taking action on all variance requests. The board shall use the following decision criteria consistent with the requirements of Indiana state code development standards variance. Um basically the board may grant a variance from the development standards uh such as height, bulk, area, design elements um after a public hearing like this uh

if it determines that the following are true. General welfare. The approval will not be injurious to the public health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the community. the adjacent property. The use and value of the area adjacent to the property included in the variance will not be affected in a substantially adverse manner and practical difficulty. The strict application of the terms of this chapter will result in a practical difficulty in the use of the property. The situation shall not be self-imposed nor be based on a perceived reduction or restriction of economic gain. The board may impose reasonable conditions upon its approval as it deems necessary down a little bit here. Okay. So, my staff recommendation, I guess, is um like I said, probably not so much that of approval as finding a different way to find compliance to this. I think there's some flexibility here. There's your traditional stealth tower, the the tree, the windmill, the flag pole, and then there are other things we can play with to make this blend in or be sensitive to the environment, such as the enclosure around the base, uh the landscaping requirement, and the color of the tower. So, possible conditions would be add a second row of evergreen trees around the monopole to add greater natural camouflaging when trees reach mature height. Um, spacing trees appropriately to prevent needle loss on evergreens. Requiring the tower to be painted a color that blends in with typical daytime sky color. So maybe not

galvanized, but maybe some version of uh white, blue, something that would fairly blend in with sky color. Um I believe there are something I'm sure that Verizon is familiar with. Um, and three, require the enclosure to be built at the same odd angle that the uh shramm cemetery enclosure is built at. Um, and match uh with a similar material, that dark gray textured block rather than the wood fence around the enclosure. Just a few ideas um for conditions. That's my staff report. All right. Do we have any questions for the for the staff?

The cemetery in regard in relation to the new proposed site. Yeah, it is. Um on the first page of the staff report, you'll see a little red buffer. Um Lacy, it's right there below your first set there. Yeah, that yellow yellow background. There's two yellow red squares. That first one that is ShraMM Cemetery and it is accessed through this old home site on which this cell tower is located. It'll be just to the souththeast of the tower site.

All right. Any more questions? No. All right. Somebody with the petitioner coming up. Have seven minutes after you're sworn in. Oh. Oh, yep. Have my I can pull it up.

Oh, can you turn me off for a minute? There we go. You swear me in one. Okay. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Spell your last name.

Russell Brown. Last name B R O W N. pulling it up right now. All right. Oh, there we go. There's two. Um, good evening. Uh, as as mentioned, my name is Russell Brown. I'm an attorney at Clark Quinn in Indianapolis. Um, I'll be brief tonight. Staff report covered many of the things that I would uh typically cover, talking about what's before you tonight and the considerations before you tonight and how your ordinance reads. Um, I I would say that I I think your question tonight distills down to um is a monopole design uh a better solution in this location than some other camouflaging uh camouflaging design. It does it uh camouflage as much as reasonably practical, which is the language of your ordinance, uh in a location where there are no other tall structures within 500 ft. Uh the the site plan that um the site plan that was is before you tonight uh does comply with that 500 foot setback given the denial of that setback variance last night or last month, but that does move it more uh out into the open on this proposed property. Um staff report did provide some very common stealth

applications, the monopine and a flagpole specifically. Um but as a visual aid tonight, the applicant went to the time and expense to pro provide photo simulations from a variety of vantage points of how those two different applications, specifically a monopole uh and a mono pine. So a pine tree might look at this location. After talking with staff, we didn't think it was appropriate to talk about a flag pole in the middle of a cornfield um for a variety of reasons. Uh uh that is one that we typically would include more closely in an office in a built environment. So um four locations here and we'll provide an example of each. So um starting I think on the west side and kind of moving west to east. So go ahead. So each each of those will show like a before and an after. So before uh here from the far western end next slide. Uh this shows the mono pine. So that you can see the pine tree uh the pine branches simulated branches. Next we'll show the mono pole. So more more we believe fades into the typical sky given the color uh of the of it with the the uh typical sky. Uh the next slide again almost from due south. Uh next slide shows the pine tree and then the next shows a mono pine I'm sorry monopole. Uh next moving a little bit further uh to to the uh east before with with next shows monopine that blends a little better with the trees in front of you. But given the next shows the the monopole two more lefts um a little further to the east nothing monopine monopole. And then last is from uh from the

roundabout at the corner of 600 and 200. Uh nothing monopole monopine monopole. Um we believe that the monopole design best accomplishes the goals of your ordinance by as much as reasonably possible uh camouflaging into the surroundings by doing a handful of things. one utilizing the galvanized steel which tends to to blend into the high skies. At this height, it does not require lighting. So, it's an unlit uh unlit. Uh we do have significant setbacks being obviously more than 500 ft uh from any residential structure. uh the would have utility infrastructure screened by above ground uh I'm sorry it's of similar materials to other above ground utility infrastructure namely the fact that you have do have high tension power lines uh that that bisect kind of through the the uh roundabout nearby. Um and we would uh as provided it is uh to be landscaped in accordance with uh the landscape requirements. I had not seen the second and third condition included in the staff report tonight. I'd seen the first related to uh adding an extra row of pine trees and I do have authority to agree to that if that's the board's uh board's desire. I I had not seen the other two before I got here this evening. Um so u in conclusion um obviously given the vote last month for the special exception uh this there will be a wireless communication facility on this property. There's a need uh and we are meeting that need at this location uh and that the revised site is compliant with the ordinance. So the question tonight before you is really what constitutes camouflaging and is something that is reasonably practical.

Uh is what we've proposed as a monopole. Does it meet that? It's the petitioner's position that this solution does meet the best intent the intention of your ordinance and would ask for your approval tonight. With that I'm happy to answer questions of the have maybe one question. You might have just seen this. What color blends with the typical daytime sky color in Indiana?

I I will tell you I I've done more than a hundred of these um around the state of Indiana and the state of Kentucky. I've never painted a pole. They've always been galvanized. Um and I think that the reality is that galvanized does in the high sky specifically from a color perspective that's going to blend best. The other challenge that happens is as you know there's ground equipment and there's tower equipment and oftent times there there's cables that run between the ground equipment and the tower equipment and those are generally black. Um they're generally on the outside of it. So a white painted or light blue painted that black actually pops more. I think it stands out more uh from when when it's installed on the outside of the pole. um these at this height are generally not able to include all of them all of the cabling inside of the pole. So there is stuff uh that will be installed outside. So my perspective would be that galvanized best fits that um versus painting it. Painting requires maintenance and and I think also would probably pop more with that those black cables that run on the outside. It's not very good answer, but that's that's kind of where I think in my experience we would land.

So the the variance is advertised as a variance to lessen the camouflage requirements, which that's I was struggling with that a little bit as we're it's not a variance to do away with the camouflage requirement. It's just a variance to lessen the requirement. So what are we really lessening? I mean, at this point, I mean, you're still doing the landscaping around the base. Galvanized steel is listed as a method, right, of camouflage, right? So, I'm not doing it. I I think the I think the ordinance has a little challenge in that it says, you know, color camouflaging and architectural treatment. So, I guess

I'm not meeting all three of those. I'm not making any architectural treatment to the tower itself. Um, but I do think, you know, your your ordinance goes on to say that you're generally of a monopole design is preferred. So, I think in some instances were complying with it. In some instances, yeah, I don't have an architectural application here. Um, I don't know that a monopine is an architectural application either. Uh but um I think that's when we when we got involved in this case uh which was in June. Um that was one of the things we worked through I think with Rhonda is just making sure every every tee was crossed and I was dotted in our application and we added this variance as part of once we got involved in the case.

Of the hundred or so of these that you've been a part of, have you ever done a mono pine? Been one one. I can tell you exactly where it is. It's across if if you go on 74, the exit that has the Cracker Barrel on it at Shelbyville, there is a monopine there. I I can tell you that I can spot it from the interstate because it looks completely out of character from the surrounding areas, but the neighbors um objected to to it and that's uh we got it approved because we didn't need a variance. Um so stand out. I was wondering if I've never seen one because I've only that's the only one. you drive through and you're looking, you'll see if you look on the north side of of 74, the next time you're by that exit, you you will see it.

I've seen them in North Carolina and it's the tallest tree out there. Yeah. I I I've never done I've also I've done flag poles, but generally in a built environment, I've done them on school on a school grounds. That's the most one that sticks out to me. Um I've not done a palm tree, which you'll see out in the southwest uh the west coast southwest. I've not done a cactus. Those are in the southwest. So those those are the typical ones I've seen.

Yeah. So this this pole I I my understanding was that it has the ability to have other carriers present on it. So what happens there? What what gets added to it later? And is this something that we have to review every time or is it what would get added? So in a monopole situation, it it simply is antennas that are added at additional center lines. So you would have if you drive by a tower and it has four center four rows of of uh antennas, you probably have multiple carriers on that tower.

So they would add tower equipment. They would add cabling to connect the tower equipment to the ground equipment and they would add ground equipment. So typically we would not we may have we would have to file for a building permit often to come in and add to the tower but we would not have to do any come back for any public approvals in a monopine situation. um you may have to modify how those faux branches look um just because the antennas have certain locations they need to go to and so you may have to modify that which sometimes makes it look less spar less densely covered at the top than than what's proposed.

Okay. to confirm you're okay with the conditions the second row of evergreen trees um gener generally color and the um the cemetery enclosure. I don't have the authority on the cemetery enclosure because I was not aware of that uh request if if it's a commit if it's a condition we we'll comply with it or we'll come back and ask for a relief. Would you be open to require instead of striking the term painted? So require the tower to be a color that blends with the typical daytime color which would be gray or white. It's not painted. The galvanized is that yeah, that's fine. I mean galvanized. It's not painted. And I mean I think we half those pictures in eight months in Indiana were gray or white. Yeah.

Galvanized gray is what would be proposed here. Okay. Any more questions? No. All right. Thank you. Do we have anybody here that would like to speak in opposition to this proposed variance? Yeah. Come on up. Just one. Anybody else? All right. You got all three minutes. Seven. Seven minutes. Seven minutes. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Larry Sadam, um I encourage you to make the or can you spell your last name real quick, please?

E D A M.

Thank you. Um, I strongly encourage you to um enforce or enact the uh conditions um when we make our own fire departments live up to the standards that we set and we agree with a condition when we put a u a a tank company in and we require extra um ground around them. I strongly encourage this as well. I think we need to get something to grow fast and high. And whether they mean they need to get with Purdue or someone to make sure we have trees that will grow high and fast and not die. I think that's something we need to ask them to do. I mean, we we've asked other companies when we've had this to do the same thing. And if we're enforcing it with our own township fire departments for what I would say buffering, we need to do the same thing here, if not more. Even though it's 500 feet out in the field, you know, you're going to see it. That's it.

All right. Thank you. Thanks.

Some time left. If anybody's changed their mind, anybody else want to speak? No. Right. Do we have anybody any government officials that would like to speak about the variance? Done. All right. Mr. Brown, you have some rebuttal time if you'd like to speak. Three minutes. I'll use very little of it. Um, we are agreeing to the second row of evergreen trees, so that's additional buffering. We already have an 8ft fence around it. Regardless of whether you adopt the condition or not, it will be the ground equipment is screened, you cannot ultimately screen a 125 foot cell tower, no matter how fast something grows around it. But we we understand and those are obligation ongoing obligations to maintain that landscaping. Your code enforcement folks are great from my experience about making sure that we live up to commitments. So

you you had said that you didn't you hadn't talked to the staff about the dark gray textured block condition. We have not have not talked about that. Okay. So, you'll use a wood fence. Is that what Yeah, that that's what we've proposed. Um is an 8 foot tall wood fence that would surround the base equipment and then the um two row double rows of evergreens would be planted outside of that. So, all the equipment would be located inside the 8ft tall fence plus you'd have double staggered uh evergreen trees around that. I do have a question for staff. Um when was uh condition number three put in?

This evening. So he hadn't even seen it. Why was number three put in? Then other more ideas about ways to address about what you're seeing drive out that direction of ShraMM Cemetery. So just some ideas on how do we blend this in as much as possible and that was the best thing I could think of. So just another thing to consider. Do

you think the location of ShraMM's cemetery and where the tower even the orientation of the tower is able to tell that much? Do you think? Hard to tell. I think most of the year you won't be able to tell that much. Yeah, it's what I was thinking, but I wanted to since you actually drew drove out there. So, what was the intention behind offsetting it the same way then?

Because it is such an odd angle. If you look at it from the air, it's almost offset to a 45 degree. If you look at the context of this area on the ShraMM homestead, um this is one of those notable things you see is this little graveyard in the backyard. Now, if we're looking at it from 200 south as we're driving by and looking that direction, you're probably going to see the cemetery and then you're going to see this galvanized tower. So other ways to make this somewhat blend in, maybe when the crops are not in and before the pine trees grow up, having mirroring that small concrete block enclosure at the same angle could potentially have some design element to it.

And I can say I don't the angle isn't the isn't the hugest issue to to us. It's obviously easier probably if you have a straight lefthand turn in. Um the the block would be the the bigger thing just because of the costs change and I just don't have authority to just a question for staff. The application deals with the entire parcel and not the location. Is that right? This deals with just the camouflaging. This is the variance for just the camouflaging. Is that what you're asking?

Yeah. I just it's a it's a reach of on another product that we're putting an enclosure on with the ultimate intent I guess of screening it because of the visual I'm just trying to figure out this a lot of it's a whole new thing the cemetery is on the same yes um okay but it's up to you guys I don't know if requiring them to do block is going to matter since they're going to round it with trees As long as they maintain those trees, hide that block or that fence.

I say I'm opposed to number three alto together. Um, I I I think it would be best for staff to try to do that with the petitioner in knowledge prior to the meeting than showing up at the meeting not knowing anything about it. That that that's I think in in all fairness, it's it's just not as fair as a possible process. So, motion. I'm ready.

Should this be approved? Um would recommend that staff conditions attach with a few amendments. For number one, add and maintain a second row of high and fast growing evergreen trees. The remainder to be be the same. For number two, require the tower to be a color that blends with a typical daytime sky color, gray or white. And no number three. No number three. Copy that. Okay. All right. It's been moved and seconded that should the uh variance be approved, it be subject to the two stated conditions. Um it will ask for clarification. You said a color. Uh you're just removing the word paint. Correct. Yeah.

And adding gray or white. Gray or white. Okay. So, a galvanized gray would would be acceptable under those requirements. Okay. Um all those in favor signify by saying I. I I oppose. same sign. Okay, with that we can uh vote. You know what you understand the ballot?

Okay. case number 25-2590. The application for the variance to reduce the camouflage is granted a vote of 520. Right.

Thank you, Mr. Brown. All right, on to item number two, Megaarm 700 LLC and start with Kayla's staff report and then we'll move to the petitioner. [Music] the technology getting us again. Okay. Once again to give a little bit of a summary of this uh particular petition. This is a special exception use for semi-truck trailer parking and repair

at 6901 West 500 North in Buck Creek Township on 18 12 acres zoned light industrial IIL. history of this project. In May of 2022, a special exception was originally granted for this particular use on this particular site. In June of 2023, the special exception, sorry, the special exception extension was granted. Special exceptions are only good for one year. The petitioner was given six months to get an improvement location permit and 12 months to receive a certificate of occupancy. On April 19th of 2025, the special exception and permit expired, which is what leads us to tonight's meeting. At this point, the special exception is once again up for the BCA's vote. We've got plans for the Megaarmm 700 truckyard. They are in your presentation. They are also in full size. The permit set up here on this table. We go through what a special exception is. It is a use that would not be appropriate generally or without restrictions throughout the zoning district, but if controlled as to number, area, location, or relation to the neighborhood would promote public health, safety, and general welfare. So, we've gone through the timeline. In May of 2022, this was found to be true.

Are the is this still true is the question we have tonight. Has anything changed in this neighborhood that would make this special exception more or less appropriate. The ex in in staff's opinion the expansion of McCordsville's single family residential from the north uh has changed the feel of this area. Um I have attached to the end of the staff report um on the very back side of it a aerial image of the neighborhood so you can see where it goes from residential to the north and in this image we show planned residential on the south side of Stanbury um coming down even further all the way to 7 five sorry 500 north um and then also where warehouses sort of come up from the Mount Comfort neighborhood to the south. So you see how this is an area where two different uh neighborhoods come together. So a special exception use like this um is is very important in determining how these things merge. Um Turner Farms PUB has remained inactive. That is just on the west side of fi of 700 uh east sorry west. I'm all turned around. Okay. Further expansion of Enterprise Drive and East 70 Logistics Park has remained inactive. That's further that's to the south of this development. Uh we did receive in addition um since the staff report was written uh we've received more than two letters of Rammonstrance now Offenbach Hudson as well as the Northwest Hancock Neighborhood Association and also from the I'm going to forget their names but I just handed it to you guys. Um couple that lives just across the road to the west um also submitted a letter of

remmonstrance. We did receive one letter of uh support from Mr. Turner. Um, the county surveyor is still in support of this project as completion of the drainage plan, which has already been permitted, will improve drainage throughout the area and was also partially responsible for the delay at least in the first year. um due to uh completion of the warehouse project to the south not going through, it delayed um the drainage process on this particular site.

So, you're saying because that warehouse wasn't built, the county couldn't review their paper the petitioner's paperwork.

That's my understanding. Yes. But I'm happy to turn that over to the petitioner to explain what the delay was. I've included bits of my June 2023 presentation in this as well, so you can see where things have changed or where they haven't. parts were just still developing like this aerial of the area which shows number three being the end of Enterprise Drive. That culde-sac which had with development is planned to extend all the way out to um 700 700 West which would then channel basically all truck traffic back to Mount Comfort Road which is very much set up for truck traffic. So, in an ideal layout, um, this area too would then have a truck entrance onto that drive. Trucks would then go back to an area that was easier for trucks to get on the interstate. Decision criteria for special exception applications. U, the board of zoning appeals shall have the power to authorize special exceptions. In approving special exceptions, the board of zoning appeals may attach any conditions to the special exception as it deems necessary to asssure compliance with the purpose of this chapter. If the conditions of the special exception are not completely and continuously adhered to after granting the special exception, the special exception shall become null and void upon notice to the property owner from the BZA. The following requirements shall be met. The special exception shall be listed in in section 156.021 of our zoning ordinance. The special exception shall be ser that's our land use matrix by the way. This is this is listed there. Um the special exception can be served with adequate utilities, access roads, drainage and other necessary facilities.

The special exception shall not involve any element or cause any condition that may be dangerous, injurious or noxious to any other property or persons and shall comply with the development standards of 156.060 which is another section of our zoning ordinance. The special exception shall be sorted, oriented, and landscaped to produce a harmonious relationship of buildings and grounds to adjacent buildings and properties. Special exception shall produce a total visual impression and environment which is consistent with the environment of the neighborhood. The special exception shall organize vehicular access and parking to minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood. The special exception shall preserve the purposes of this chapter. Other considerations. When considering a special exception, the BCA may consider the following items as they relate to the proposed use. Topography and other natural site features. Zoning of the site and surrounding properties. Driveway locations. Street access and vehicular and pedestrian traffic. Parking including the amount, location and design, landscaping, screening, buffering, open space and other site amenities, noise production and hours of any business operation. Design, placement, architecture and building material and structure placement. design, intensity, height, and shielding of lights, traffic generation, general site layout as it relates to the surroundings, and any other criteria deemed relevant by the board. Conditions, the board may impose such reasonable conditions upon its approval as it deems necessary to find that the criteria for approval in decision division D have been satisfied. I should also note that the town of

McCordsville wrote a letter of neuronstrance to mention that one industrial light. This is the just a description of what that zoning district is intended to do. Uh so the district's summary and this is really our guiding light. When I'm going back to what needs to be in this particular zoning district, what is the intention of it? Um this is a good way to kind of find that district summary. The IL or light industrial zoning district is intended to provide locations for production, assembly, warehousing, research and development facilities, and similar land uses. The district is intended to accommodate only industrial uses that are completely contained within structures and do not involve the outdoor storage of materials or the release of potential environmental pollutants. This district should be used to support industrial retention and expansion in Hancock County. We also have a section that deals with industrial operation standards. And those standards are meant to minimize the conflicts between the industrial and other land uses and to protect persons and properties from possible byproducts of industrial operations. So if we read through those general industrial operation standards applicable to the zoning to the industrial zoning districts like like light industrial general standards. All uses placed into operation after the effective date of this chapter shall comply with all federal, state, and with all federal and state standards as well as the following general standards in the interest of protecting public health, safety, and general welfare and lessening the potential damage to the property. No use in ex in existence on the effective date of this chapter shall be altered or

modified in a manner that conflicts with these standards. So we look at noise. No, no, no use on a property shall create a production or operational noise or combination of noises that are detectable without the aid of of instruments at the boundary of any residential or commercial zoning district. Odor. No use on a property shall emit any objectionable odor or combination of odors that is detectable without the aid of instruments at the boundary line of any residential or commercial zoning district. Vibration. No use on a property shall cause any objectionable vibrations or concussions that are detectable without the aid of instruments at the property lines of the lot on which the use is located. Glare and heat. No use on a property shall produce any glare or heat that is detectable without the aid of instruments at the property lines on which the use is located. All outdoor lighting shall be exempt from these industrial standards but shall comply with outdoor lighting standards. Exemptions uh industrial standards provided in this chapter shall be subject to the following exemptions. the following uses, activities and act and circumstances shall be exempt from the standards established by this section. And I just want to point this out. Motor vehicles, the operation of motor vehicles for the transportation of personnel, material or products. And I guess my comment on this as staff is that the wording in this section infers that the language is referring to vehicles that are accessory to the primary use of the site, like a forklift lifting pallet, not semitrs and trailers as the primary product of this site. The industrial standards established by this section provide general guidelines

for discussing expectations with new and expanding industrial operations. They also provide references to applicable state and federal regulations where applicable. The determination of conformance of industrial operations with the requirements of this section shall be determined by the area plan commission BZA or plan director when consistent with the petition review processes established by this chapter. So, unfortunately, my staff recommendation at this point is to deny. This area is developing more residentially and semi-truck traffic parking is no longer appropriate with the environment of the neighborhood. As population grows from a Cordsville area, conflict in regard to the industrial operations standards is more likely to occur uh between the industrial and residential uses if not properly planned and organized. Um, were the BCA to approve cross connection and extension of Enterprise Drive would be a great way to uh make it better for truck traffic to get back to Mount Comfort Road. Um, the site would need to be more insulated from residential by other industrial warehouses, not located on a prominent corner of two major collectors. trucks and semi-trailers really should be in stored indoors to comply with the intent of the IL zoning district and those industrial um standards and I've got the uh monstrance letters that are in your packet. You say we were missing one Ron from McCordsville.

Yes, I passed it out. Okay, we're missing another one from the packet we had last time. Brandon, is that in anybody's packets? Brandon. Brandon sent a Google Drive link that Maria was unable to open. Maria reached out and was unable to get a hold of her. I believe this was so she tried again and included it. Okay. when we granted the that's the from the packet when we granted the continuence. Okay, [Applause] just pass it.

Yeah, I can make copies if you need to. That one. [Applause] The only other question I have is um I recall in June of 23 we had said not a 12-month but a sixmonth but that was a difference between a permit and an occupancy permit. Is that what it was?

Go back and I'll explain how that worked. Okay. So in June of 20 23 the special ex exception was granted. The petitioner was given six months to get a permit and 12 months from that time to get a certificate of occupancy. They applied under the very last minute deadline around the holidays before the end of the year. And so the um and then the permit was picked up. It sat in our office for a couple more months ready to pick up. It was picked up finally in the spring of 2024 and at that point had a year to get built and get the certificate of occupancy. So we say that one more time a lot of time.

One more time. So the permit was applied for not permitted um for a couple months there. It came into our office um in very late December, early January um end of 2023. So December 23, January 24, and then the permit was picked up um by April of 2024. What's the definition of obtained for a permit? Now the interpretation is a little more strict. Um it is obtained meaning picked up and paid for. At that time, uh we were a little bit generous in our definition. Meaning applied for.

One last question for me. I usually don't see in notice that we X out people is are those people not receiving notices or why would that I just usually don't see that. [Applause] Our list was verified and everybody who was required to receive notice.

Okay. So just just to to clarify verify I guess maybe just maybe just for me but the um the special exception expired. This is a new special exception. This is not an extension. I just wanted to make sure that we're Yes. Yeah. This is a new special exception. Okay. Okay. Any more questions? Just have a couple. Uh I don't want to for for her. Okay.

For Yeah. Um is the gate now included? I just didn't It's too small. I don't want to walk over there. Okay. Yes, a gate was included as part of the tech review along the front and required to be set back believe 80 feet at least from from the road so that semis could turn in and if they needed to stop they would be totally out of the road. Okay. And the buffers that were originally outlined are now included in this new application. Yes, they are on the landscape plan. Okay. And this has been mowed consistently ever since May of 22

as far as we know. Okay, we can ask. Thank you. Was the turning blister added? There was a requirement for a turning blister, I think, based on the traffic study with the highway department. Is that was that in the plans? It is in the plans. I don't believe Okay. Okay. All right. Any more questions for the staff? Right. Petitioner, come on up. We have seven minutes. There's a couple of minutes for rebuttal.

No, you'll have rebuttal at uh you'll have a threem minute rebuttal at the end. Thank you. Where are you both in? Yep. Swear everybody in. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury I'll hold on a minute everybody. Okay. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Each one of you please state your names and spell your last name. Brian House. H O U S E Kep Singh. S I N G H Philip Going G O I N G Ed, you have seven minutes.

Thank you. Um let me try and answer some of the questions that I think I heard here recently and then move into covering several other points. Uh turning blister is contemplated and obviously that would be completed as the project is completed. And on that point, uh, as you will recall or at least maybe be aware of from your packet, uh, after the initial presentation of this project, it was requested that traffic study be done, it was done by the Shrewsbury Engineering Firm. And then on the 18th of this month, 10 days ago, we provided to the planning director's office an update or confirmation that the engineer's shoes and associates basically say that the uh conclusions and information reached initially in their study remain accurate and unchanged. So, let me tick through a couple of things. And I think one way to look at this is first of all, why the delay? Um, that delay in no respect rests on the shoulders of my clients. Um, it was due to a number of circumstances, some of which Mr. Goyne can speak to. First, the initial drainage plan as discussed up here contemplated taking water to the east because of a development which has been approved and will at some point be logistical space immediately next to this site. Um, and that's a project that's held by a division of the GDI companies. In fact, I've been in consultation with them about this project. Bottom line is their project didn't move forward as planned. Therefore, that drainage option was not available. Drainage had to be re-engineered by Mr. Going and his staff. And so now the water is engineered into this detention pond

which you see depicted here. But of course, part of that contemplated use of an existing tile which was found to be completely crushed, clogged, etc. had to be reconstructed. Last but not least, and part of the issue about the permitting, they have made a change in the contractors and one of the reasons was it's the contractor's obligation to pick up the permits. Didn't do it in a timely fashion. There were some other problems. So, they have a new contractor in sight. I would categorize this situation as a delay doesn't rest with the shoulder of my clients. It's circumstances beyond their control but really an issue of what has occurred, what exists and what is speculative. What exists are logistical spaces that you see uh immediately adjacent to this property shortly to the south. There will be more immediately to the east and that's the nature of this area. This proposal falls within the ambit of the existing comprehensive plan. And this body and the plan commission historically have been extraordinarily uh cautious as to any deviation from the comprehensive plan. When we talk about residential development, I point out the fact that one of the supposed residential develops developments mentioned in the staff report is Turner Farms. Yet Mr. Turner, the proponent of that project, says two things. Number one, it's not going to happen, and number two, he supports this project. Um, as to particulars in the staff report, I think one point that I want to discuss with some importance is the observation made on the industrial operation standards where staff and I respectfully disagree

concludes that the wording infers that the language is referring to vehicles that are accessory to the primary use. Um, I disagree. Uh first of all, we're talking about industrial operation standards generally. Moreover, the case law in Indiana is that issues of legal interpretation of the ordinance frankly rest with the courts and not with these bodies. Your job is to review and find the facts and you do a good job of it. We have logistical space. My clients didn't just dream up the notion to create truck parking. Rather, this is an accessory use to what already exists and will continue to exist in this county. They have been contacted by Amazon, by Walmart, and others in this county that find this proposal to be a valuable and useful accessory use to their uh operations. It's an interesting thing when trucks offload at one of these sites once they're unloaded, Walmart, Amazon, etc. want that truck to move on and not be there because they have their own trucks that package and distribute. Um, so there is a need for this type of service further. And while the statistics are a little hard to come by, at least in Hancock County, there are at a minimum um uh 473 people engaged in trucks transportation industry. It's hard to break that down completely by owner operators. And by the way, that number comes from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics uh QCEW report June of 2024. That's the most recent I could find. There are owner operators that live in our county and many of them don't have the ability

to park a truck at their home. Um, but again, this provides an opportunity to park a truck for use. And this is not an area where trucks will be parked and run. No one will be sleeping there. No one will be staying there. It's park the truck, leave, pick up the truck when necessary. Um, I think that there are a few points to point out as to the remmonstrance letters. Uh, first of all, the last letter you received was from uh, Steve and Diana. Uh, I think Miss Brooks indicated that they're neighbors. That's not in fact the case. I've talked to Miss Primo several times. She's charming individual, but they live in Canada. They're real estate investors. Um, apparently they oppose the project at this point in time. But she also goes on to state that, you know, maintain the zoning of this location as residential. Well, that's not the case. It is not zoned residential at the current time. Um [Applause] I I come back to where I began and that is let's look at what has occurred and not what might occur or in speculation may happen. What has occurred is this part of the county has undergone and seen significant development for what I call logistical space and semi-ractor trucks are a natural accutoterment to that sort of logistical development and there is an express need for this type what was the time

time is up okay thank you well I'll conclude thank you for your time it's nice to have a full board but we would urge you to approve approve our petition for the reason stated. Thank you. So the the report this this Shrewberry this is a a memo trip generation memo is what we don't have like a full report right this is the full report the full report was provided to this body in 2022 I think in December 2022. Yeah.

Uh I I'd ask that that be included in the record simply because the Shrewsbury memorandum basically says as I stated what we did then is valid now.

Right. So yeah. So they're basically saying that the the trips the generated trips remain the same 3 years later. Um 2500 vehicles. But it doesn't it doesn't there's no opinion here that this would that this project would increase or decrease truck traffic. Right. It's not going to increase trips generated or decrease trips generated. These trucks are already here. That's the intent. Right.

If you'd state the last part again. I guess what I'm I'm getting at is that the this particular project will not add trips or decrease trips in the area, not necessarily to the site, but it's not going to add truck traffic to the area. It's not going to decrease truck traffic on the roads. We didn't get any kind of determination like that in the traffic report. I think that's a fair statement. My response would be what was provided was precisely what the planning authorities requested at that time. Um, [Applause] okay.

Maybe one follow-up question to that. I don't was that roundabout there in 22 on 600? I think I had to drive around that many many times then. Yeah. I I I So this it wasn't studied the new I don't know. I mean I I'm familiar with the roundabout, but precisely when it was completed I don't I don't know. So they didn't look at the change in anything with the roundabout. Uh they wouldn't have they were specifically requested to review their report and determine whether there was any change in their conclusions or assumptions. Charged a significant amount of money to do that and they concluded that there was not.

Okay. Quick question on the notice. I I'll ask you as well. Three names on five West 500 North were crossed out and they weren't included. Why? I have no idea. Uh Mr. Going handled notice. I wasn't involved at that time.

Yeah, the um Beacon website when you select the 600 ft buffer around properties just gives you the list of all of those names that are within the 600 ft. But there's also a statement that says that anything more than two properties deep is not included. So the ones with X's shown are within the 600 ft buffer, but they are more than two properties deep from our property. And so they're not required to be notified and we're taken off the list.

That that's Thank you. That that's statutory. Again, I didn't handle notice. I saw it was crossed out. And again, when this continued the first time, we sent a letter to all persons listed there saying it has been continued and the notice was continuence or the new application this this this time around. No, I'm talking about continuence of this proceeding on the new application because uh we've been here several times. I have a question for Mr. Going. Um you saw I was looking at some stuff earlier. What is that distance from the gate to the edge of road?

From the gate to the edge of road is about um 80 + 50 - 10. So about 120 ft. Okay. So it's over 100 ft from the gate to the edge of the road. Yes. Okay. Correct. Yeah. and and that the the position of that gate was actually set with a conversation with Gary P and what he wanted to see with traffic coming in and out. That's why I bring that up. I've seen the situations where it's only set back 50 ft, right? And the back of the trucks hanging out into the road, blocking traffic and creating unsafe situations.

Right. Then the initial design did have the gate closer. Um, but we set it at the distance that Gary requested and uh satisfied his concern on that. Has this been mowed the whole time since 22 taken care of? Good to go. No, no notices. Say again. The the property was was one of the requirements in 22. One of the requirements been 23 has been mowed and taken care of the property.

Uh, well, currently construction is still underway. It's been off and on. So basically what you have is beard dirt and a great deal concrete tile and that sort of thing. But no, it hasn't been there's been no complaints that I'm aware of about weeds or anything like that. I would note one of the remrs and hats off her did say well this drainage has improved somewhat and it's not even done yet. It'll get better when it's completely done.

Right. Any more questions for the petitioner? Who's the plan clientele for this? I mean, is it Pardon me? Who's the plan clientele? Because you're going to have a gate, so you're gonna respect. Well, as I said, the plan clientele basically are persons who are delivering from suppliers to the logistical sites here in Hancock County, the biggest being Amazon and Walmart. They drop their load, but then they have to leave. They may pick up another load soon or be redispatched, but they need a place to put the truck in the interim.

Okay. So, I guess my question is you're going to have a gate. You're going to restrict access. Is it going to be that they have to rent space? Is it is this drivers renting space from you or is this Amazon renting space from you? I'll turn that over to Mr. Sing to answer. Yeah, it can be individuals who rent it out and but mostly we got approached by Amazon and Balmar. They want to rent out the whole space. Even the right next door property which is GDI, they approached us, you know, they want to leave the whole thing out. So, they're wanting to have their just their drivers using it. This isn't going to be just an open lot for No, no, it won't be. It will have fans and everything all there, you know,

and there will not be anybody staying there overnight. No, no, no. Will you have security there, though? They just park and then they go home and make their 34-hour break or sometime. I I believe the commitments that were previously approved still acceptable to my client talked about staffing security. uh landscaping is up to the highest standards of So is this going to have then the drivers will have their personal vehicles stay there. Why?

If it's going to be individual, they will have their personal vehicles, but if you rent out to the company, you know, so I I think they probably have their own vehicles or uh they just park and then they take their car out, you know. All right. Any more questions? All right. Thanks, guys. Thank you. We got the uh remmonstrators. We have seven minutes. Uh collective. How many people would like to speak this evening? Look like we got four. So, we'll go a couple minutes a piece and start left to right here in the front. One more.

There was a fifth one. All right.

State your name, Larry. And and Larry Saddam. Already sworn in.

Already sworn in. I'm going to be fast on this one. Um, who's going to enforce the rules? I know Kayla understands that, you know, uplighting's an issue with me. Um, noise is an issue with me. Truck parking on places that we've already said they shouldn't be parking is an issue with me. We don't enforce it. So, how are we going to enforce noise and pollution? Because these trucks, we all know not all trucks are reefered, but there's going to be a lot of reefer trucks sitting there and they're going to run and they're going to put it out because they've got to stay cool. So, you've got noise, you've got pollution, you got lights, and now you've got you got truck traffic. And someone just said that you've got 300 parking spots that you've got trucks coming in and people going out and you're not going to increase the traffic on that road. Come on. Who's selling this bill of goods today? Cuz that's that's crazy. But again,

20 seconds. You know, that's really kind of all I said. Who's going to enforce all this? Thank you. All right. Thank you, Larry. Swear you in. Swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do.

Please state your name. name is Robin Wagner, W AG NER, representing the Northwest Hancock um neighborhood group. I referenced the letter on June 15th to Miss Brooks. Our concerns are safety with regard to the increase in traffic. The intersection that they front on that's shown in the plan is very small. 18-wheelers fly through there already. Now, school buses have almost been hit. that retention pond floods and covers the road. There's no protection for the retention pond, no berm, no um railing. Somebody could hit that water, spin out, and be in that pond and drowning and dead. The trucks, there's no regulations that we know of regarding the loads that would be parked in there. We're concerned about firet truck access, ambulance access, should there be an accident. What if there's lithium batteries in there that catch fire? What if there toxic materials in there that catch fire? How is that going to be handled? We live in that area. We would be exposed not only to the pollution from the rain coming down and washing things off, but potential leakage. We're very concerned about crime and safety. Truck PS are notorious for attracting prostitution and crime.

I'm sorry. 20 seconds. Okay. Um, I refer you again to that letter. We strongly oppose this. Thank you. Thank you. Our third person was in the middle in the back here. I saw a hand back here. Okay. Come on up.

Hello. You swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes, ma'am. State your name, spell your last name.

My name is Leah Letterman. L E D E R M- an N. Still can't say I won't say something incorrect because I do. Um, so I don't know all the ins and outs of expirations and whatnot, but there were a lot of zigzags in the planning and zoning meetings minutes cuz I tried to follow them. Um, and I can be sympathetic to an extent, but I don't know. I just stood up here and watched them say it was the contractor's fault and I felt like you should be taking full responsibility. you're in charge of this project and if this is how they handle their planning, how will they handle their execution? Whose fault will it be then when something goes wrong? Uh it's worth noting that this property has not been kept up well as was recorded in previous minutes by a previous remmonstrator. I also wonder if the benefits benefits that this facility will bring to transient truck traffic will outweigh the discomfort of the local and rapidly growing residential area in terms of lighting, noise, upkeep, diesel emissions, and semi-truck traffic. Buck Creek is not a money-making venture for companies and developers who are not interested in the quality of life and safety of residents there. The petitioners who come into Buck Creek need to be serving its residents and not the other way around. I think that the comprehensive plan would agree with this. And the comprehensive plan notwithstanding uh Buck Creek residents, we've sacrificed enough for our of our livelihood for Hancock County at large and we don't need to attract more businesses like this. And this project came before the planning commission and was voted down 7 to zero with Commissioner McDaniel noting that semi-truck trailer parking is the responsibility of warehouse developers in that area. If Walmart and Amazon are interested, they should provide the parking.

Thank you. Clapping, please. No clapping. Do we have Okay, one more, please. Three minutes left or two minutes? Three minutes left. Hi. Hi. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Please state your name, spell your last name. Sandra Hudson. H U D S O N. Okay. Let me ask one more thing. We have uh one more person after you to speak and then government official. Is that correct? Well, you raised your hand, right? You'll you'll be in under the government time. Did we have somebody else? So, we'll have three minutes if unless anybody else wants to share that last minute. Nope. All right. Go ahead. You three minutes.

Uh, I did send a letter of remmonstrance. I do live uh directly across from this project on the western end on 700 West and I agree with everything that's been said before. Uh, I spoke against this in 2022. I pointed out the water problems and I know the developer has spent a lot of time and money working on that and so I'm sad for him and hope that he can find a project that's more compatible with the area. Uh it is becoming more residential so for safety and quality of life I urge you to deny this request. Thank you. All right, I'm remaining.

We have some remaining time. Does anybody else want to speak in opposition? No. All right, then we'll give uh I think we have Ryan from Accordsville. We'll give three minutes. Swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Is that your last name?

Ryan Crumb, CRU M. Uh first of all, uh thank you very much for entertaining uh some additional comments tonight. I am representing the town of McCordsville. the town's assistant town manager for planning and development. Uh we did provide a letter has been previously noted by your staff. I will not go through all that letter. I will try to be very brief tonight. Um starting off with first thing um a lot has changed in this area as we talked about already in this area. Um I I would not classify these things as potential things. These are actually happening today. These are real things. Town of McCordsville's residential growth is coming down from the north to the south. Uh Claybornne was the project that was shown on the screen tonight. That is a real project. It's a 300 unit single family subdivision that is going through our process right now for final approvals, but the reason approval has already been granted. Other things, uh, both both the county and the town have adopted new comprehensive plans since the original special exception approval was granted. Those are real things. Those are real plans. They went through, I think both cases, over a year of input and discussions and um lots of of time was spent developing a vision for our community and both those plans adjacent properties to this property are envisioned as residential properties. Um and then the markets bearing that again as noted McCordesville uh has got residential growth occurring right now. Number two, 500 North. Um, uh, first of all, we acknowledge the trip generation memo. Thank you for providing that. We did see that this week. Um, the key here for us is 500 North, um, from 6 West to 7 West, 3/4 of that roadway is McCordsville's roadway. So, um, whether we talk about if it's new traffic or old traffic, there's going to be a lot of truck traffic on that road. it was not built for truck traffic and McCordsville is going to share the primary burden of that maintenance and what we assume will end up being is reconstruction of that road. Um we would we would much rather see access be provided off Enterprise

Drive. Um that would be you know through a industrial road built for industrial traffic. One minute.

Um three, this is not highest and best use. Uh this type of land use should be on the freight network which is 600 West and it should be within a fully industrialized area. So an area surrounded completely by industrial. This highlights exactly why this is a special exception use. It is potentially a fine land use in the IL district but not this particular the this particular location adjacent to single family residential development. Uh so finally in closing this does not advance quality of life in Hancock County which is now more important than ever due to SEA1. Um and uh I think all these comments highlight the reasons why this project does not meet this county special exception criteria. Um petitioner uh has not been able to deliver a project for the last three years and simply not being able to do that is not a reason to approve a special exception. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Two questions if I may. Yeah. Um did McCordsville submit any remmonstrance or support in 22 or 23? I don't believe we did. Yeah. U and I think there's some conflicting statements we have about Turner Farms. Um here it says it's approved. We have a remmonstrance say it's it's not and then I think a verbal statement it's not. So can you maybe clarify for us what that's what that is? I cannot Turner Farms is not in our corporate limits. Uh the project that we have in our corporate limits is Claybornne. Okay. Oh, the county and the town have approved

the Yeah, sorry. The county has approved the reszone for Turner Farms. It's just never progressed, I believe. Understood. Thank you. Do any more questions for any other monstrance? All right, rebuttal period, Mr. House. Um, three minutes.

Thank you. I'll try not to use all three minutes. Uh, Turner Farms. Yes, approved by the county, but Mr. Turner, the promoter of that project, has given you a letter saying it's not going to go forward, and he does support this project. Now, what are his reasons? I don't know, but I think he is a knowledgeable individual and recognizes the the land use development that's going on in this area. Uh, I certainly respect Mr. Crump very much and we interface frequently. Um, but every now and then we have to respectfully disagree. Um, first of all, even though the comprehensive plan has changed, this proposal still fits within the comprehensive plan. If it didn't, we couldn't be here because you wouldn't have a special exception to the IL zoning classification. Um, I I do want to take exception to the notion that my clients have tried to blame everything on the contractor. That's not in fact the case. Uh, what is the case as Mr. going stated and I indicated the drainage plans had to be redone twice. The first option was not available and then secondly issues just inherent to the site primarily collapsed tiles and so on were encountered. All of that took time. Um I understand the position of the remmonstrators but again I come back to what is there. If you look at what is there, there is logistical space in existence immediately to the southeast. There's approved proposals immediately to the east or similar space. And again on a legal point I submit that this proposal is in fact an accessory use to the existing logistical

infrastructure which has been developed in the county. Um when this was initially proposed in 2022 I believe it passed unanimously of all persons present. I realize things change, but there should be a certain degree of predictability in what is decided by planning officials and obviously my clients have gone forward and spent a great deal of money uh in pursuit of this project. Thank you. Right. Any additional questions for the petitioner?

Sure. We've we we heard some testimony in the monstrance about property values and impact impact of property values. Maybe you can I'm not sure I heard anything in the testimony rebuttal. What I heard this evening at best was very general comments about property values. Absent any expert testimony whatsoever. And in regard to that as to the specific site, have you heard before? Uh you need to have um objective information. Uh I do a lot of real estate law. I'm not a real estate appraiser, but property values as they are here are based upon what is there and what is there is adjacent logistical space. So I submit whatever impact uh there is has already occurred.

Um just a couple more questions to clarify for the record. Couple of mentions of concerns with crime. I'm sorry. Could you speak up then? And some people were saying I need hearing aids. I'm holding out on that. But a few of the remmonstrators mentioned concerns of crime. If you could maybe um address those.

Well, this is okay. Uh again, I think some of the comments that have been made are extrapolating criminal activity at truck stops. This is not a truck stop. This is simply where trucks come, park, drivers leave, another load, they pick up the truck. Again, the commitments are this will be staffed uh and controlled uh to a reasonable degree. When you're providing services to Amazon and Walmart and so on, they're very demanding about the quality of those services. And this is not a situation where uh the owner would cont would would cooperate as to criminal activity.

Okay. And the last thing that I don't believe we've addressed in tonight's minutes um are pollution and noise. We've heard remmonstrance and saw it in our statements about pollution and noise concerns.

Um well the noise situation uh that one leaves me scratching my head. We already have plenty of semi trucks in the county traversing our roads and that's not considered noise pollution as it currently exists. you know, I7, you can hear the trucks on I7 two and three miles away. I happen to live within three miles of I7 and it doesn't bother me. It's a low rumble, but it's there. Um, so I don't think this is creating noise pollution. Um, as to any other sorts of pollution, again, the comments made have been general and speculative lithium batteries and this that and the other. This is a paved parking lot with professionally engineered drainage. uh offflow is contained on the site and I don't think that there is any sufficient objective evidence in this record to support any conclusion about pollution.

Any additional questions? All right. Thank you. Thank you.

Any discussion? We had not necessarily some conditions but some some thoughts. Um well I guess they could be conditions cross connection extension to enterprise drive. I don't know if trucks or semi-trail was being stored indoors was would be practical for this petitioner, but any any discussion on any of that?

I heard it mention a couple of times that there are a lot of other conditions and I do remember there's a lot of other conditions that attached in 22 and 23. I don't do we have all of those the certification? Yeah.

Which is included in your packet. Here we are. You go to the what is it? The second to last page. It looks like at the bottom of the meeting minutes they're they're listed. Number one was the ILP and um and certificate of occupancy 6 and 12 months. A landscape plan approved by the planning director. Exterior lighting plan approved by the planning director. Special exception becomes null and void if the business ceases operations after 12 months. Special exception does not run with the land owner and cannot be transferable to any other entity. The BCA reserves the right to revoke. Uh the petitioner must submit a development plan as required by section 156107 of the county code. It's a good one to catch. Um the petitioner would install a type 4 buffer yard. I believe that's in the plans. The entrance gate entrance gate must be set back 100 ft from the right of way. I think we're 100 ft from the road and refrigerated trucks must be parked on interior spaces of the lot and the lot must be mowed within 15 days from Yeah, we had a a weedy situation out there. But yeah, those would all uh I think they comply with with most of those. So, but they would probably be good to uh include

your blister too from the certification from June 2nd. It included all the ones you just read. Um, well, it included an an additional one that you did not read. The petitioner must provide a traffic study. I think the outcome of the traffic study with the blister that Yeah. All right. We we had a lot of discussion in June of 23 about this of shortening the 12 to six months. Mhm.

And the term obtained became problematic. What became problematic? Um to obtain the permit. And that's been fixed administratively. Can

I add something that we our land use planning efforts like stated think about transitioning between types as it's shown in our um future land use map. is surrounded on three sides by residentially zoned. Something that does concern me, how we will enforce the noise at those residential property lines even with a restriction on refrigerated trucks to the interior. Note on I think what we could do is uh unless there's any more discussion, we could entertain a motion regarding conditions. um to include all of the previous conditions minus the the mowing I would say and then um anything else that you might want to include. Like I said, a lot of this is in the in the in the plans, but it sounds like um the ILOP is in hand. Is it it's still good, right? So a new one

expired. It did expire. Okay. So they'll have to come with the plans again. So, it would probably be good to attach any of these again to any kind of U. Is it six month? Six months sounds like a long time. Oh, yeah. For the uh Yeah. Yeah. We can alter any of these.

Well, let me give it a shot. I'll give a motion. Should this be approved that the conditions from the July 7th, 2023 certification be incorporated with a few amendments? For number one, the permit will be obtained under the current definition of the administrative offices within two months. Number 11, the lot will be maintained Uh starting 15 days from today, the traffic study recommendations including the blister will be implemented. All plans must be conducted as uh presented in tonight's meeting. the cross connection and extension of Enterprise Drive would be made replacing um drive cut and that the applicant will work with staff to ensure uh the enforcability of the noise concerns.

Second. All right, it's been I need to recuse myself for this vote. Okay, so we'll have uh from from the whole thing, right? Yes. Okay. Um All right. So, it's been moved and seconded that uh should the special exception be approved to be subject to the stated conditions. All those in favor signify by saying I. I.

Oppose. Same sign. Mr. Rubble has recused. Um we go ahead and vote. We'll have a vote of four members with Mr. Rubble recusing. Case number 25-2600. The special exception is denied. A vote of 420 with one recusal. All right. Thank you for your time this evening. Okay. Um, everybody good to keep going? Number three, uh, we've got pools by Corey and Swezy.

varants for an ingground private swimming pool in a front yard located at 2399 Richmond Drive, New Palestine. [Music] We'll start with Kayla's uh report. Okay, hold on just a up that staff report. So, um, in this case, we have a, uh, pools by Corey, um, located at 2399 South Richmond Drive in New Palestine, Sugar Creek Township. The zoning is R2.5. Uh, Richmond Plats is a little bit older of a subdivision. Um, it does not have any common area along 600 West. So, the lots go straight through that back up to 600 West. Uh, oh, might get myself a try to go quick. Um, so you'll see that that this yard has basically three front yards because the way we define that is anywhere between the foundation and the ride ofway. So, it's a it's a corner lot plus it's a through lot. So, it has no backyard. They want to put a swimming pool in. They have no place to put a swimming pool that meets our ordinance requirements the way it is written.

Um, I'll go quickly on this. Um, interestingly enough, if they decided to tie in a covered porch on the back side of their house, they could build all the way up to that 50 foot build line right here. So, if it tied into their house and was part of their primary structure, we would have zero concerns about what they put underneath that. but because it's an accessory structure and it is in their front yard, it's against our ordinance. So, it truly is a unique a unique lot situation. Um, now subdivisions are built so that um they have a common area strip in situations like this. Not not uh one of the and one of those reasons would be so we could prevent things like this. They frequently have a burm. It gives people a kind of a buffer against the road so they can put things in their backyard and not have to worry about having them uh backing up to these main thorough bears. So visually you wouldn't recognize that this isn't a front yard. Um it very much feels like their backyard. Um but it is indeed defined as a front yard um according to our uh ordinance. So just bad bad luck um more than anything in this case. We did have several letters of support. Uh, one letter of remmonstrance. Um, and those have been included with your file. Uh, more letters of support came in after the deadline. So, we were not able to include those. You'll see that they are including a 4ft BM um along the rear of the property. And yes, some definitions like I had just defined on how our our ordinance is a little bit tricky when it comes to these uh front yard definitions especially with through lots in this case uh for the reasons I I've cited before uh general welfare of

adjacent value of the properties and practical difficulty. Um you know uh as far as general welfare goes this is not going to be injurious. um the adjacent property. This is very much in keeping with what's going on. In fact, in some of the cases nearby, I hate to say it, but there are there are things that have happened in properties near near this. You'll see on an aerial view that they did not get variances. I don't know how they happened exactly, but it was not recognized that a variance was required. Um so, this is very much in keeping with what's happening in this neighborhood. Um, and I mean having three front yards seems like a practical difficulty on where to put things that are not part of your main house structure in my mind. So in that um for those reasons, my staff recommendation is to approve with conditions. Uh those conditions being one that a building permit related to the variance must be obtained within 12 months of the above approval date and an occupancy permit must be obtained within 12 months of the approval of the building permit or the variance will automatically expire. And two, the accessory structure must be constructed in the same approximate location as shown on the site plan. That's it.

I have a question. I see several letters of support. I have a letter of Did we get a letter of remmonstrance? We did. When uh within the time frame allowed um maybe a week or two ago from Howard Green. Is that the same as with previous petitions? See, it's right here.

Where did I miss that? I'm blind apparently. Is this that same subdivision with the fence? Okay. All set. Okay, you're all done. More questions. Okay, petitioner, we have somebody here. Oh, here we are.

You're both going to speak. We'll swear you both in at the same time. Looks like three. Okay, three. Two. Okay. Swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes, ma'am. State your name, spell your last name. Douglas sees. S W A Z Y. Corey Brooks. B R O Ks.

All right. Folders here. It It has all the letters of support that I think you probably already have. So, I won't even waste that uh the time giving you guys that. My wife wanted to make sure I was prepared. Um yeah, basically uh we're just seeking a permit for a pool. Um we've got a house, two houses to the north of me. Uh as you guys already attested to, they didn't even have to apply for a variance. It's it's literally the exact same situation minus the sideyard.

They have a backyard by their definition as well. So, uh, the pool is not going in my front yard. Um, I've had multiple neighbors come up and go, "Why are you guys putting a pool in your front yard?" It's not It's the language for, you know, it's the zoning regulation language. I I just I'm trying to do the right thing. U which is all we've ever tried to do. Um, we we've got a aluminum fence that's currently uh in the backyard already. It has met all the requirements. It's been there for 16 years. 4 foot. You can see through it. Um, beyond that, I I I honestly don't even know why I'm here. I mean, it's a pool out my back door into my backyard. I I get the zoning regulation, but um it it just seems a little insane to me. Is there is um so with no common areas in this subdivision or at least not at least not in this area.

I'm confused by that too because the you know my property line stops at a uh you know 200 foot mark. There's a power box. There's an additional 25 to 30 foot beyond my property line that the neighborhood mows and maintains. That is not my property. So let me say because on your plans here you're showing a 4ft tall burm. I'm assuming that's going to be the spoils from the pool. Correct. So is there any drainage in there or is that an easement of any kind? It is not. My property the the burm will be within my property line and it will there is a build line as well uh drainage and utility. I don't even know if I have to abide by that. But

well that's that's kind of my point. So with a drainage and utility easement, it's property you own, but utilities have access rights to. Sure. And um that's what w if that is an easement, you're potentially a if there's a swale there, I don't know if there is. Is there a swale there? I don't swale. There's a there's a swell along the new construction along the the road that they're doing there. Um but if the burm is in the easement because we have not been able to supply with a plat. Um even sometimes the city don't even supply a good uh plat for us to do our drawings. Uh we can always move the bm closer to the pool that's outside.

That's an area of concern for me because yeah I mean you've got utility lines buried in there and especially if it's a drainage easement you're now affecting the drainage for not only your yard but the rest. Sure. So, we don't want to cause any drainage for the houses up front. If you look down Mount Comfort Road, there's already three or four houses north of me that have That's all I was trying to do. A is to provide privacy. I don't want my wife and kids to be swimming in a pool. I am a fireman, so I'm gone 24 hours, sometimes 48. Uh I don't need anybody creeping on my family.

No. And I I don't disagree. It's just that is my concern cuz just creating potential issues not only for yourself but your surrounding neighbors. Sure. And the code's going to meet all the codes either, you know, as well. So, it's going to have a locking automatic pool cover on it. You're still maintaining a fence in the backyard. Correct. So, for safety for anybody else in the neighborhood, it's no different from the pools up there. And it's definitely safer than the pond that's a couple streets over. Uh so again it's all going to be a co-conforming swimming pool and it should up the property values of the neighborhood as well along with I agree.

So you mentioned the burm in your letter from pools by Yes.

But it's not included in the condition. Um might just think about that. Got it. And I think you know on Beacon there's a drawing that you guys see that the neighbors have got BMS with trees on there from the photo we supply that's all the way that stops at his yard. So, uh, and again, if there's a drainage swell, then all theirs will be in that drainage swell as well. Just like Doug was saying that that's all common areas. Thought you until you brought it up to this meeting today that we there's no common area.

I actually the the burm from my standpoint, I just walk wheeled it out. It's still 20 feet beyond your fence line, my property line, the end of my property line. So, so Kayla, I'm looking at this this one uh drawing uh this one here. Mhm. So, by the looks of that, is that GIS saying that's public rideway then? Where's line stops? Yes. Anything past that blue line is public rideway?

I assume so. I just wanted to double check. Yeah, obviously it's beacon so it's you know only as good as our layers over the aerial are but approximately that is true was um yeah okay I see it right here it says dedicated 65 ft right away on the plat

was this uh the shed head is pretty big. Was that permitted with the house or was that I actually built that 21 came down here just like normal. Yeah. And it was inspected by the planning and building board and all done. Okay. Yep. Got it. All right. I like to add that the pool is closer to the house than the uh than the shed is to the back of the rideway of the backyard, too. So, the shed will be out farther than the pool is. Are we good on lock coverage percentages?

Uh, our 2.5 I think it's So, we'll definitely check on that as part of the permit. Mhm. Now, the flat. So, the pool would only fall into that, not the flat work is my understanding. Anything hard surface. Anything hard surface. Yeah. So, concrete, the pool surround plus the pool. I tried it does Well, I was trying to think. There's something that doesn't though, and I can't remember what it is now. Okay. I kind of tried to add it up. I I think it was I think it was fine, but Okay. All right. Any more questions for the petitioner?

No more questions? All right. Thanks, guys. All good. All right. Uh, do we have anybody here this evening that would like to speak in opposition to this variance? Yes, one person. Come on up. Just just the one. Okay. So, you'll have uh the full collective seven minutes. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but

I affirm that. My name's Howard Green Jr. and that's G Ren. That's for last name. And yes, I am the fence guy with all these I I thought it was I just it just sprung to my memory.

Well, it's it's summertime, so it must be another Richmond plots variance request. You know, we've been here 22 23 24 now 25. Um, but it's before speaking to the legal issues at hand, it's important to place the this request in contacts. It's not about a three-year delay by the BZA to hear a petition about a 8-oot uh privacy fence in a residential neighborhood or enforcement of how a 7-ft fence is level with a six-foot fence. I'm still getting my research on my differential calculus notes for that one. or granting a building permit for a pergola in a setback even before a variance is granted or installing a pool in a location somewhere else than where you have a permit. So rather than get upset, I came downtown to express my grievances with the county commissioners on March 5th, 2024. I gave an account of the county ordinances that I felt had been abused. And after stating that a secondyear law student can make a decent case for a nonfeence, malfcence, and misfecence by the planning department, my request to the commissioners was simply to have the planning department have updated ordinance training and to consider removing the BZA board attorney who had permitted such activity. Well, right on Q 2024 comes in a Richmond Plot resident petitions for variance in May of 2024 on this very issue we're discussing this evening. Unfortunately, the petition had the wrong address on the variance. So, the planning commission required a renotification of that petition. Unfortunately, it was sent out late without a certificate of mailing. When I questioned Mrs. Smoke about the uh per uh the notification, she indicated it'd be all right. And I told her I disagreed since a correct notification had never been received by those who uh were needed uh timely. and I made the same claim in my paperwork that I turned in.

Miss Kinker, the assistant planner, presented the petition to the BCA for discussion on June 27th of uh of that year for discussion and board attorney Cooken unable to issue a clear legal directive to the board as to the discussion uh and the discussion lasted for several minutes as to whether the BCA should hear the petition. Finally, a sharp lady on the BCA board pointed out it would be better to delay that since there was a possibility of proper notification not being sent. Well, the point of reciting all this is to point out the planning commission is woefully unskilled in their zoning ordinances and the BZ attorney does not prepare for these meetings to bed out legal uh issues presented. It was particularly rich since on June 27th, I was appealing a decision of February 24th in uh Judge DJ Davis's court. My attorney was presented with a five-page rebuttal detailing every zoning technicality in the Indiana code. And when asked by the judge Davis on July 10th, 2024 how the board attorney would respond to those legal charges in the writ. So if your staff and your attorney with uh are struggling with public notifications rules, what I call government 101, how to conduct a a business meeting, how do you expect uh how do you think you'll fair tonight as we work through the legal protocol of this petition? First place to review the petition is whether the BCA even has the authority to issue such a variance. And I count it under uh 36-7-4-94918.4. I would say no. And there has to be a reason why the county followers decided the properties along Thorfells have special restrictions. No one is supposed to uh have

obstructions in their front yard by code. They're not allowed to have a fence over not 4 foot 42 in. It has to be uh 50% open by by uh county statute. So, you know, the reason they do this, I believe, is for uh security, for safety. Um, last year the Hancock County Sheriff's Department uh SWAT team was called to home less than a mile away from our uh property on 600 South 600 West. A man committed suicide on his back porch. And these aren't fictit concerns. The first responders need to be able to have a clear entrance to the property. And that's why we have these special rules for people who live along thorough affairs. So there's a safety concern. So if you're not clicking the safety mark check mark, I question whether the board has the authority to make this decision. Secondly, under Hancock ordinance as the your plane director uh cited, you know, you're in violation.

Two minutes.

It is uh it's restricted and it and I believe the planning commission is restricted in issuing approval to the definition of a front yard. You have authority for height, uh, area, and bulk. The, uh, county followers did not agree to have you change any, any, uh, ordinance that you wish, particularly in a definition area. They decided that, and they decided it just, you know, what, 60 days ago. Uh, third, the county ordinance requires that if a covenant ordinance or state or federal law is governing request, the strictest standard must be applied. That's by county ordinance. We have rules about pools in Richmond plots in our in our HOA, but the county has a stricter uh a stricter requirement. None in the backyard, none in this quote front yard that they have defined. So that standard needs to be maintained. last last you you've opened up Pandora's box because as presented we have a number of uh issues all over uh Sugar Creek Township considering uh this whole issue of the of the three yard or twoard um property front yard properties and in fact we we you know I I made a a list of over 30 u complaints to Mrs. smoke. She found five, two of them right in our neighborhood. Those issues have not been resolved. Still got the sixoot fences up in in these front yards. So, how do you issue a guy a variance when we're not resolving the issues that have been quote under investigation or uh you know uh working on. So in summation, uh these are legal issues that the board needs to overcome to issue the petition. I hope you give them a fair evaluation. And for the record, Madam Secretary, I wish to

be uh uh notified when the certificate the when the um minutes are certified. Thank you. Any questions? No thanks. Any questions? All right. All time is is spent. Any members of the uh any government officials? None. All right. I would say if we had some conditions. You got a rebuttal period.

Yeah. I was wanting to look at this real quick. Okay. All right. Petitioner, you have a rebuttal period. Do we have new speakers? What's going on here? I'm uh supporting this and I'm going to offer some comments and rebuttal. My name is How many people do we have that's rebutting? Okay. So, they're on your side,

correct? So, you're going to defer your rebuttal period to them? Sure. Okay. Yep. And I can finish up. Okay. Okay. Minutes and do it's collective. Yeah. Let me swear you both in. And you're already So, do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. State your name, spell your last name. Frank Lux. The last name is spelled L A U X. I do. Charles Kelly. K E L L E Y. Okay, go right ahead.

Okay. Um, the first thing that I just want to point out is that when you look at the code that Howard Green used, the code is actually for fencing, not for a pool. Um, and I do understand the uh practical difficulty of the three front yards. And of course, everybody realizes that as Mr. Green alluded to, the people that originally put that together had a reason for that. But obviously there's a reason also for the board of zoning appeals and that's to appeal zoning that is either just antiquated or just doesn't apply. Um I think that um you know there's been a lot of controversy in the Richmond Plats neighborhood and a lot of this stuff just I don't really understand why there's a need for this. But I also want to just point out too, and I'm just going to read a couple of things. Mr. Green talked about definitions and Indiana code, zoning code here for um Hancock County 156.121 states, "The following definitions shall apply unless the context clearly indicates or requires a different meaning." So, when we're talking about definitions, this specifically stipulates to what the definition is of a front yard, a sideyard, and a rear yard. And there is no ambiguity with this. Um, special exceptions, uh, the, you know, this is another thing that I think that Mr. Green may not really understand, but you, you folks are given the authority to make these decisions for a reason because there are times when these decisions need to be made. We have another neighbor that couldn't get a sideyard fencing because of some complexity. And the truth is they didn't have the money to continue to fight it nor be able to hire an attorney. That's the reason why they didn't continue that process. But I'm sure that they will. Um and I guess

you know the pool really is is just like any other pool in our neighborhood. There's nothing different for this. So I'm just going to go ahead and finish on that.

Okay. Thank you. All I want to add is that the the rebuttal or the the against the pull was more an attack on the board and your independence to make these decisions as as you resolved. Things are fluid. Things change. That's why you're here so you can adjust when they need to adjust. I didn't get my letter in time to support, but I came here for two hours cuz this pool to me is absolutely supported by our neighborhood. And I live across the street. I'm the next door. I'm across the street neighbor. And I think that what's I'm most concerned about is that this is not an attack on the pool. It's more an attack on your authority to do your job and do with the things you have to do. So I support you guys to make the exception. I would really push that Doug's pool is exactly what the neighborhood wants to help our property values. Thank you.

Make it quick. Um, you know, I know Howard is concerned about safety and I applaud him for, you know, fighting a good fight. Um I'm a fireman. I know ingress and egress issues. So just have one question. One question. Um there are conditions that staff recommended. Have you consented to those? Number one, get the permit within 12 months. And number two, the accessory structure must be constructed in the same um approximate location as a site plan. And we would amend that to say that you would need to locate the burm appropriately per plat and drainage requirements and complete construction as substantially in in substantial conformance with um the plans presented. I agree.

Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. All right. Uh any dis well any any further discussion on that? Uh question I have for council is that there was a request or there was a request in the remmonstrance for a specific notification. I don't believe we can comply with that. Even if requested, the notifications go out as um administratively outlined. We can't do a special notification. You're saying Mr. Green's request for special not We can't

um we now have a way to sign up for um anything that you would like to be notified about by email through our transparency website and efforts that we've made with our agenda. So, um, if there's any rehearing that that information would be available and you can sign up to have email alerts. So, that's about the best we can do. Yeah. M Mr. Green, have you seen that that we've just a minute?

Have you seen the ability to sign up for the emails? Because if you've not, then give this office a call and they'll they'll set you up with that and then you'll get all the notifications. I get them all. They're annoying. There's a bunch of them, hundreds of them a week. So, all right. Any discussion on the uh on the conditions, but I will make a motion. Okay. Should this be approved, staff recommendations would follow with the amendment to number two uh to add that the BM will be located appropriately per plat and drainage requirements and will be constructed in substantial compliance with plans as presented this evening.

Second. Okay, it's been moved and seconded. Should the variance be approved to be subject to the stated conditions? All those in favor signify by saying I. I

oppose. Same sign. Okay, we can vote our ballots. Finally a skinny one. [Applause] For case number 25-2619 for the variance to allow an accessory structure and swimming pool in the front yard. Um it is granted a vote of 520. All right. Oh, thanks. They're all leaving. Very good. All right. Uh, our last hearing item this evening, number four, Eric Brumley. We have a variance to allow an accessory structure in the front yard at 1879 West State Road 234 in Fortville. So this is um petitioner is Eric Brownley. The subject property is located at 1879 West State Road 234 in

Fortville, right across from the Mount Comfort, sorry, Mount Vernon school campus. [Applause] Mr. Brumley owns 2.225 225 acres zoned agricultural. You can see here that his lot does a jog behind his neighbor's house which is located in front of him. He is requesting a variance to locate an accessory structure in once again the defined front yard. Um basically where his RV is located in this aerial image. Oh, that's an RV sitting there. Okay,

I have a question. Oh, that so that lot line, that 90 foot lot line is considered front yard. One moment. Let me scroll to Yep. Just below the yellow dot. Yes. So, according to Even though it has no road frontage. Yeah. Yeah. Well, according to our ordinance, the way it defines where accessory buildings can be located, they cannot be located in front of the foundation, the front face of your house. Okay? So, this is not so much a variance for in a front yard as it is a variance in front of the foundation of the house for accessory structure be located in the front yard. Yeah.

Well, that's that's my question because technically, as we just had with the last petition, front yard is anything fronting a street. the front face. Yes. Okay. And that's what is kind of make more of a point of clarification. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz he fronted three streets where this individual 90 ft line is not on a street. It's on a rear of a property. So, it's just it's more of a variance for an accessory structure being in front of the primary. Yeah. If it was, and believe me, I've read through the the ordinance here, too, and if it states that the accessory structure cannot be located in the required side and rear yard setbacks and or the front yard. If it just read or the required front yard setback and grouped it in with the rest of this, we wouldn't see half the variances. We see say we wouldn't be seeing this one.

Yeah, we wouldn't see this because it's not in any required yard setback. It is in the defined front yard per our ordinance. So, um, as we it is behind his neighbor's house, interestingly enough,

as we go through this, um, you'll see once again where his RV is located is about where he really wants to put a barn. It's not blocking the face of his house. It fits quite nicely um off to the the behind his neighbor's house and to the side of his property. If you're going down 234 and you look right, you can see the face of his property. Once again, it's not going to block it. It's not going to feel like it's a barn in the front yard. Um it simply is where he's established he needs an outbuilding. You can see he's got a fenced in uh yard already behind his home and where it looks like, okay, well, why doesn't he put it back here? I believe he has shown on his site plan that's exactly where his septic is located. So down to the good stuff here. My staff report is to approve with condition that the building permit related to this variance must be obtained within 12 months of the above approval date and an occupancy permit must be lo must be obtained within 12 months of the approval of the building permit or the variance will automatically expire. The accessory structure must be constructed in the same approximate location as shown on the site plan. I did not feel it was a need to add any conditions relating to architecture for this because we wouldn't if it was just I don't see how anything would I guess um the conditions a condition like that would not help the variance at all. It doesn't seem related but I leave that up to the board. That's it for me.

Okay. You got any any questions for the staff? So the you've got, you know, the standard you've got your conditions, but we've also got these standard conditions. I mean, were any of those do you exclude those specifically or are you opposed to them? any of our standard front yard conditions like the gutters or the Yeah, the gutters, the lighting, all that stuff. He's just just indifferent. I'm in I'm indifferent. He's going to have to meet our basic code requirements. Okay.

And given that it is behind his neighbor's house already. He's got a fairly large lot. I don't see there being any sort of I don't see any of I don't see any need to mitigate any of so it seemed unrelated except that it be located in that approximate location where it's already screened behind his neighbor's front yard. And we can of course ask the petitioner about what kind of building he wants to build. Yep. Yep. So, okay, the petitioner here. Come on up. I s in a long time. You swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Please state your name. Spell your last name.

My name is Eric Rumley. B R U M L E Y. Seven minutes.

Um, good evening. Yes. Been waiting for a while, but it's okay. It's worth it. Um, my wife and I retired here in 2014. We bought that property in about 2015. We built on in 2017. Um, when I built that house, I did not understand or did not know of the the uh rule not to build in front of the house. So, if you look on my childlike site plan, the rocks that are just to the north of where it says the dimensions of it, the white box in the middle, those rocks, that's where my transformer is. So, I placed that transformer there in the anticipation of building that house there. Um, the Yes, it is an RV. To answer the question, it's 38T RV. um they're not built to uh home standards. They're built to be light. So they're not necessarily that that they're not fragile, but they're certainly not very tough. So the wife and I traveled that for two years. It survived that. So we would like to put a building over that to protect it while we continue to use it. U made it wide enough to where I can have it with the slides out so in case family comes over, I can give them the house and we can go to the RV and be ourselves. And um the uh the site plan is exactly correct. I can't build to the west. I don't have enough room because the my property line with school. I cannot drive across my septic system. My septic system goes the the septic drain field goes the exact goes the whole width of from the east side of my house to the east property line. Can't drive a 24,000lb vehicle across that to get to any of my property on the south. I would have to cross over somebody else's property. Um where the RV is is approximately where it's going to go. I'm going to push it back just a little bit, but I will stay not more than about 10 ft from where the RV is. Just long enough to where I can back cars out and I can back the RV into that into that building as needed. Um, that's that's about it. It is behind my neighbor. She has no issues with it. I know that's that's kind of hearsay, but she has no issues with I have spoken directly to her about it. The building will be roughly the same colors as the as the house bricks, a red brick on the

side and dark uh roof on top. So, it'll match the house and it'll kind of almost blend in back there. Thank you for your consideration. Do you plan to have any lighting on that structure?

No. No. No electrical, no lighting, no plumbing. Uh I do have a uh 50 amp plug out there um to plug the RV into it, but that's the only electrical. I'm not even going to attach that to the building. It's on a freestanding board on its own and it will not be attached to the building itself. The building itself is um it's basically it's not a pole barn, but it's like an aluminum pole pole barn. It won't be it'll be augured into the ground. It's how it is is um how it's fastened to the ground, but it is not the building itself is not in the ground. I'm going to set it on on gravel, a gravel footprint. What's the exterior cladding again? The

exterior siding is going to be it's like a a red brick on the outside of it. It'll be aluminum siding on the outside. But it'll be red brick colored colored. That's what Okay. Okay. You don't have any pictures of what you're thinking? I do actually. We actually can't see them unfortunately. Oh, we can't look at turned in appropriate amount of time. Okay. But good question. I'd like to see them. I believe. Oh, yeah.

I'm glad you stated that that it was aluminum siding made to look like brick because I was concerned when you were talking about being on gravel and what was going to support the brick. Oh, but since it's not real brick, I'm not concerned. I'm sure my wife made made sure that it was going to match the house. So, is it going to be taller than the house? I don't honestly I don't know, but it will be the walls of it are 14 feet and then there's the the peak of the roof. I don't think it's going to be more than probably 16 feet. They didn't they just on the building plans they say the walls are 14t tall and then peak of the roof. But the top of the RV is 12 feet 11 in.

So, I have to get underneath that. I was very clear about getting underneath that. All right. Okay. Any additional questions, petitioner? None. All right. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Do we have any remmonstrators? Government blah blah. Rebuttal time. Got nothing more to say. Made a lot of noise tonight. All right. Uh any uh discussion? No, but I'll make a motion. Should this be approved? the um conditions as outlined by staff would carry with the approval.

All right, it's been moved and seconded that should the variance be granted it be subject to the stated conditions in the minutes. All those in favor signify by saying I oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Any additional discussion? Ready to vote. Okay. In case number 25-2620 for the variance to allow an accessory structure in the front yard, um it is granted a vote of 520.

Thank you. Thanks for hanging out so long. Okay, that concludes our hearing items. Uh we've got other other business. Number one is our new BZA member which I introduced um Mr. Rubble before meeting. U we've got a new uh planning staff member. You all met I think Dennis on the way in. So, you've taken Darl's position. Congratulations. Welcome aboard.

We have uh a rule change to discuss that. And another point I want to bring up. We currently have no PP, right? That's on my list here. Copy that. So, we'll go ahead and address that. We the vice president situation we um we I I thought we could do that tonight, but we really should have that on our agenda. So um if you guys can put that on the agenda for next month, we'll have an election for the vice president. Two people were talking to you. So did you get that? Sorry. Sorry, I was interrupt.

Put the vice president election on the agenda for next month. Same with vice president of the planning commission. We need to have an election for that as well. Unless you think we should wait another month when have a full board. No, we'll just do it next month. But where are the requirements that have notice? What's the notice requirement for There's really not an I don't think that it was a requirement, but we just had did this once before and the commissioners would prefer that any kind of change in officer stuff be on the agenda. It's just for transparency. So just out of respect for that I put So maybe just a note for the future if that's a it's hard to remember these things.

So it you know instead of saying a chair I mean because we're not technically following our rules then we're having a supplemental process. So a chairman shall be elected the first regular meeting of the board in each calendar year and then I I don't know that we have actually I think the statutory word is chair. So we need a vice chair. Yes. Well, how kind is I corrected that in our um uh but I mean does it all I mean do we allow for the backfilling of a role? We don't have that in here.

I guess I didn't spend any time looking at the rules. I just assume we needed to do that and we've been several months without without one or I don't think there's a procedure for other than you select them at the first of the year. Mhm. I think if we are going to have a procedure we would just need to and we're expected to follow it. We just commemorate it in here that we provide proper notice and or if if a position becomes open. What would your procedure what would you like it to be? Put it in the rules. I don't want one, but it sounds like we need one. It would be

Well, I mean, I guess to Kayla's point, you know, it's been going on and we've been limping along, I suppose. What are we in here? This is August. We got September, October, four months, right? Three months, three more meetings. We could just not do it and be without I mean, we that could be another option if we don't want to be concerned about procedure. I mean, you can always if there's a vacancy in the vice chair position and then Mike, you couldn't be here one night, let's say. Then they would take a vote on who is going to serve as vice chair for that night.

True. Well, because that's the point I was getting ready. If you weren't here, say, next meeting, we've done that before when like a secretary was. Yeah, we've done that a number of times for the sec secretary. So, yeah. So that would be an option as well. So, but I think the the point is if if we are going to follow a procedure for putting it on a board agenda and noticing, let's just put it in here so that we don't if if that's what we want to do and that's what we're expected to do, we should just let other people know who will be chair in the future. It's easy to remember it when it's in a rule.

So, just a note that any any elections for an officer's position would be noticed. That's probably not bad because the commissioners asked that even our um January elections where we we appoint our officers, they'd like for that to show up on the agenda. So, and it could just be um should a position become vacant, it would be, you know, on the next agenda meeting. And I mean, we're basically dealing with that in our red text here anyways. It's alternate. It's vacancy. It's how we're dealing with not only the position but also the officer.

Okay, let me just throw up devil's advocate for a minute. If we put something like that in the agenda or in the rules and then we we have a vacancy and then the president isn't there, we would default to the rules and we say, "Oh, wow. we can't move forward be in appointing a vice chair for that evening because our rules say it has to be on the agenda. Does that does that kind of I think it would need to be the same thing as um disqualified for that for for that meeting. That's a different section. Are you looking at stated in a way that permanent assignment?

It's a vacancy not disqualification. Okay. So, I need to work on some language that would talk about if there's a vacancy in the vice chair then um secretary, right, who plays the role and then permanent appointments need to be notified on the agenda. Correct.

Permanent appointment. That's a good idea. Permanent appointments. Yeah. question. Has there been an alternate appointed? So, this would allow for the consideration appointment. Okay. Thank you. We're I guess we're just getting the rules ready that if the commissioners or actually it's whoever you're appointed by if anybody wants to appoint an alternate our rules are now

remind me why the alternate cannot serve I I understand the chairman or chair why it it seems more important that the secretary they are not serving as secretary because there's just some procedural requirements for secretary not vice chair.

Um the question I mean it it should be I mean might be fine is uh bottom of page three number six the alternate cannot be in the role of chair or vice chair. Um because alternate member is probably someone that won't be here very often and they're not familiar with how things that's also a kind of a spot to put them in when they maybe come to one meeting a year where they have to actually do be a fill in. So let's say it's Mike's alternate um as president. We don't necessarily want the alternate to have to conduct the meeting. maybe they are only filling in for that one night a year. Um them to serve in the president's role. It'd be better to have someone who's more familiar who's a regular EZA member to that was my thinking behind that.

That makes a lot of sense. I just think I don't know if the vice chair is needed but certainly secretary would be because there's just some procedures. You got to check them some things off. You got to read it out. As long as they have the little hand sheet that they gave me, it would be fine. Um, so we could add secretary to that as well or we could just say shall not serve as an officer. Oh, that's that sounds that'd be more concise.

And then um or could not that but he comes back. [Music] I don't I I like the idea of them not serving as the chairman or the vice chairman just because that it's not fair to them like she said that that with inexperience and all that stuff. Um secretary I'm afraid if we say that they can't serve what we're trying to get away from here is not being able to hold a meeting. And so if we have to bring an alternate in to be the third member, they have to be one of the

if an alternate had to come in, what I'd probably advise you to do is appoint a secretary for that evening like we talked about and the alternate would just be a member. So they wouldn't have to take on an officer role. So we need a couple things just that officer role. then we would need to make sure that we have um recognition of the um the the notice.

Um and then we need to decide what we're doing with the vice. Could we just could we just appoint a vice chair at our next three meetings or do we even need a do we even need that you know during we don't necessarily we need a secretary at the meeting but we don't necessarily need a vice chair at the meeting if we have a chair. Your rules on number three say a vice chairman shall be shall be elected in the manner prescribed for the president shall have the authority. So it does require you to Okay. Okay. So, we should have one. Have one.

So, we'll just notice it for the next meeting. Okay. So, what we want to do is make changes to the to these rules. Um, then we'll have to bring it back next meeting. We have to we have to wait 30 days until the rules are uh approved. We have to sit on them for 30 days. So, if we're going to make changes to this set of rules, I would make changes. Let me know what changes we'll introduce at next meeting and then we'd be actually adopting them at the following meeting.

Yeah. Are you okay with us dealing with the chairman situation in the next meeting though with or should we wait until these rules are approved? because now I'm starting to question what we're doing at the planning commission with our vice president position as well because we have the same situation is the is are at the plane commission are you worried about the word chairman and pres vice president or are you worried about the temporary the process of electing the person

right I mean I I'd have to look at those rules as well I don't have those in front of me right now look the same as as these but they might um just need to know what changes you want to do here so that we can reintroduce these rules for next meeting. Wait 30 days and then the next meeting you can adopt. The only thing that I just want to make sure we do um just because it's open is that now we're potentially appointing an alternate for Shirley which is in anou who might not have representation surely right is it so this is a robing it's a surely has to appoint their own alternate

or I I thought the concept would be we would have is it an alternate per person or is a robing alternate and inou we would just consent to a roving it's not roving It has to be an alternate from the appointing authority. So Shirley has to have an alternate. Commissioners have to have an alternate and commission has to have an alternate and commission has to have an alternate. So you're really going to have your one backup person to fill in for you. You have to have more than one. We we can't have a roving alternate like one alternate that would fill in for anybody who is missing. We I like the idea. cuz I can see Shirley and or Spring Lake saying, "No, they don't represent our interest." They did not want a roving alternate.

Yeah. And I can see that cuz I suggested having the statute changed in their own. So, I think the only thing we have to change here is to just add the requirement of notice, right? That's the only thing we talked about. Well, I think it's that if if we're going to change the last sentence of officer and and can we just clarify should the appointing authority for each planning for for each BZA position or appointing authorities I just um just to make it clear that each authority has to appoint its own alternate or alternates. You want me to read the statute? It might say that. Okay.

Because I do give a code reference there. 907A. Item number two, you're you're adding the the notice and the agenda provision. And then number six, you're changing to officer. Unless we say just should an appointing authority or should the appointing authorities. This is just a singular and it looks like it defaults to roing in my intro. But

907 says if a vacancy occurs among the members of the board of zoning appeals, the appointing authority shall appoint a member for the unexpired term of the vacating member. Um I see that inferred. In addition, the appointing authority may appoint an alternate member

to participate with the board in any hearing or decision if the regular member it has appointed has a disqualification under section 909. So like if you have a conflict of interest or is otherwise unavailable to participate in the hearing or the decision, an alternate member shall have all the powers and duties of a regular member while participated participating in the hearing or decision. The statute uses the term appointing authority, right? So it's inferred that we

I would say it is I agree with you. I think it'd be better if it said authorities cuz like in this instance we have four different appointing authorities but again the appointing authorities are different. You know the board of commissioners can't appoint for the town of Shirley. Should there be a sentence in here that mentions that the that the person are you a member has a disqualification or otherwise unavailable the the alternate has to meet the same criteria as the

it's already in the statute 907 it's already there so you just go to the statute all right oh okay so it references Nope. Because it says that the reg that the alternate member shall have all the powers and duties of a regular member while participating in the hearing or decision. So if all of us can't make it, you could have all our alternates, but we won't have anybody. Well, I would almost disagree with that what she just said. shall have all powers and duties. But then we try

serving as an alternate member have can't sit as chair or vice. I know. And then wouldn't we not be putting ourselves in conflict with the state law? It it says an alternate member shall have all the powers and duties of a regular member. Doesn't say as the chair or the vice chair. So then what else would all mean? Playing devil's advocate here. couldn't have you couldn't have five alternates because none of them could serve as chair. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. You'd have to appoint a chair for that evening. We'd have to elect one of them to be chair that evening temporarily. That's a temporary appointment.

Is that how you're going to assign these ordinances though? Because according to this, you're supposed to have a vice chair to sign the adopt the new That would be the acting chair. So we either we could write the name acting chair or we could go back to the minutes and we'd find out that that person was the acting chair for that evening. What we're saying is that is they sh not shall not serve in the role of the permanent role of an officer. So it's the permanent role that we just need to pull pull out. Okay. For that night that meeting. Yeah. Um that that would probably be wise because you could if you did have all alternates. Yeah. I mean the likelihood of that is very low but right but it could happen. Stranger things have happened.

Say it won't happen. It will close to happen. Actually I would probably just strike that line because we Yeah, we would we just it adds confusion and we just be silent about it. Yeah, just be silent about it and don't forget that that we all have the opportunity to participate virtually as well and all don't do that if we So I'm adding a notice provision about the elections and what was the one other thing the notice about the that will it go it will go on the agenda

election should in the event of a permanent vacancy. Permanent vacancy

for a just agenda. I'm sorry, just agenda. Yeah, it's not really a hearing item. I just I was just trying to respect the the commissioner's desire to have all that stuff on agendas. I I'll send around a draft and then just respond back to me with comments. We won't have a discussion, but I mean just send back thoughts. Um might be a procedural note for the planning commission, too. Yeah, we need to do this. Okay. Yeah, because that's actually where it came up was started to have an election one night and shouldn't have.

I really should not ask this question, but I'm going to. Were you we're going to discuss someday UDO here, right? No. Okay. If you're not, what if you want to discuss UDO? No, no, not tonight. Someday. Does the UDO have any interest? Does the BCA have any or or should we just inherit what's what it is?

Well, you know, I've mentioned it here in in the past. I do think it's something that these members should all follow along with. I mean, I think that everybody here should be copied on those distributions if possible and able to comment. We can add them in. Yeah. Great. The the three Lacy and I get them already. So, welcome. It's uh I can get caught up.

He ain't going to like it. It's and over our heads. Um, where's That's it. I have a question for you guys. So, when when people are talking and you call the time, you were wanting them. You're I think you want a hard stop. I do. I normally let them finish their breath basic basically. But if you guys want a hard stop, I'll do a hard stop. I don't care. But I mean, if you can tell that they got like two words to say, that's fine. But when they're gonna go on a whole paragraph,

Yeah. I mean, like when Brian House does it, he starts on his second sentence. I'd stop him on his second sentence. But, you know, I don't mind them finishing their their thought. Right. Well, and that's the kind of thing my thinking behind the hard stop is because I I want them to have their time, but I want people other people to have their time. And if we're going to do that, I think it needs to be done equally. I think every chair has their own style and uh we endorse your style as long as you're consistently enforcing it. So it's and every every chair runs runs the meeting different. Yep. And so we're with you, man.

All right. Let's do it consistently. Let's do what I want then. All right. Sounds good. Um I had something I thought I think when they do like the Supreme Court, if you're finishing that one sentence, you pretty much finish your sentence and you're done. And then you're done. But you're you're very aware that your time is up and you you wind it down pretty quickly. There's there are some people that it's like they're their first and only time doing something like this. So you give them a lot of leeway. Then Brian House comes up and pushes the boundaries. So you got to stop you got to shut him down, you know, because he knows what he's doing.

So it's Yeah. So as far as being consistent, yeah, probably not consistent. I probably would treat Brian House different than I would treat Mr. You know, or whatever name. But well and but likewise that's why kind of push for the because then you'll have others who you know passionate remmonistrators. Yeah. Taking advantage of that as well. Yeah.

I guess I didn't have anything else. I thought I did. I guess that's it. anyone. Um there's this motion that gets made sometimes about this. Make a motion we adjourn. Second. All right. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. All right. Off the record, I'd like to reopen the discussion about using iPads or something.