Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

He was always so good.

Place an oven yet. That was too bad. We were talking.

Oh, we don't know. We don't have an agreement. We're handling. Good. And then what? There's one more there, too. Well, I knew we were in the process of doing this. We know but Wilkinson nothing surely and there's no one else.

Yeah, because Wilkinson chooses to govern everything himself. Thank you. I'll catch you in a [Music] my glasses on. Good evening. We'll go ahead and call the meeting to order. The July 24th meeting of the Hancock County Board of

Zoning Appeals. Um like to advise everybody that your uh testimony this evening is recorded, taken under oath. Uh anybody wishing to speak will do so uh only when called upon and face our attorney to my left to be uh sworn in. Also like to advise you that we are being recorded now both uh audio and visual video recording uh per the current uh new state statutes. All persons speaking will be asked to give their full name for the record. Spell your last name so that the uh meeting minutes are accurate. Please turn off all cell phones u electronic devices any noise making devices. The order of those speaking this evening is um we'll have the petitioner following our staff report. We'll have the petitioner for seven minutes making their presentation and then we give a collective seven minutes for any remmonstrators to speak. Any government officials wishing to speak get three and then we issue three for the rebuttal of the petitioner. Our attorney uh will be giving two minute and one minute warnings as your time is expiring. We'll ask that all persons conduct themselves in a civil manner and if we can't do that, we'll request that you please leave the room. The first order of business this evening will be the adoption of the previous meeting the previous month's meeting minutes that were submitted electronically. Do I have a motion? Who was here?

I make a motion we adopt last month's me month's minutes. Second. All right. It's been moved and seconded to adopt uh last month's meeting minutes. Uh all those that were in attendance u please signify by saying I I oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. I will abstain.

You right. And with that we have um five member board. We currently have one vacancy. So by theory we have a full board this evening. uh any action will require three votes uh three like votes uh to have a decision rendered this evening. So if you don't like those odds uh you're welcome to uh request a continuance and we will grant that based on those grounds. With that I will turn it over to Miss Maria for our first hearing item. Marcelleti uh Verizon special exception to allow new communication tower and a variance to reduce the required 500 foot setback. Good afternoon. Um the first item on the agenda is the Verizon cell towers um special exception and variance request. Um this was continued last month due um to the number of letters and the board deciding that they needed u more time to be able to process all the materials of um the letters that were submitted. Um I will let the board decide whether they want me to go into full detail of the staff report or if they want me to highlight the main points of it um since this was continued um from previous month.

We probably ought to do the full staff report since uh for Lacy's benefit. I think. Yeah. So in our standards in our um specifically in our land use matrix um any cell tower in any other zoning zoning districts require a special exception. Therefore, they are here today requesting that on the second page of the staff report. This shows the site plan of the proposed cell tower um and also showcasing some of the um proposed landscaping as well. So any new um application for a new tower um shall follow um the listed items um in our standards and to the best of the ability of our uh department, we determined that this has all been um met. Um some of the items are um engineer report, letter of intent, um proof of compliance, um things of that nature is what um is required for a tower. There is also design requirements that all telecommunications facilities shall meet. Um some of those are um lighting standards um the tower height um and also conceptual design.

Site requirements are also mentioned in our um standards. All attemptations say shall meet the following requirements. Um no tower shall be placed closer than 500 ft to any property including residential zoning district. Um this is a section where one of the variances are is being asked for. This is another image um of the site. Some additional standards include fencing, landscape screening, um There are also construction requirements in um the section for telecommunication as well as landscape standards. And um new uh landscape plan has been submitted that address all the concerns that um the planning department had in the original application. And as mentioned um they are requesting a special exception. Um and with that we are recommending um approval with the following condition that the IOP application goes to um tech committee to ensure compliance with Hanok County ordinance. Um as as additionally with working with Purdue Extension to find um substitution for burning bush as shown at the landscape plan.

Uh the first variance um is the petitioner is wanting to lessen the design requirement of camouflaging. Uh we are recommending approval for that. And the second variance is um to reduce so to reduce the setback um requirement of 500 ft from residents to um 249 um feet. And with this one, the staffer is recommending denial um on the request to reduce 500 foot setback for telecommunication. um to 249 ft. Um the staff has determined that there isn't um no unique hardship that has demonstrated um and that this would reduce significantly significantly and undermine the intent of the zoning code. Got any questions for the for the staff? Um, Maria, and it says the petitioner is requesting a reduction in the

Yeah, I just noticed that for some reason it What else is that supposed to say? Um, that they are um reducing the required 500 setback 500 ft setback from the residence to 249.

Reducing the 500 foot setback requirement from the property. Right. Mhm. Okay. Yeah, I think so. So, we have uh we have two variance ballots here. So, you might want to write setback on one and camouflage on the other so that we know which is which. Can I can I ask the practical impact if the setback is not approved? What is the what do we

Well, we'll need to we'll need to take action on the special exception first and then and then the two variances after that. Um if the setback is not or your your question is if the setback variance is not approved right what's the practical application the yeah I mean is there there's no other layout that we can that that's that's able to be considered well they would just have to meet the 500 ft I think right and then just submit a new site plan to when they go to get the ILP okay so it's able practically is able be to be done without the setback it was a preference is not a not a necessity.

Yeah, there's there's a it's a pretty significant parcel. So, yeah. Okay. And I saw in the minutes from last time there's a question about feet or meters. It's feet, right? It's feet. It's feet. Okay. Any more questions? No. I will turn over to the petitioner.

All right. We have somebody with the Oh, there he is. Mr. Brown. Swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. You state your name and spell your last name.

Yeah. My name is Russell Brown. Last name B R O W N. Uh I'm an attorney with Clark Quinn Law Firm. Uh with me tonight also is Joe Sikos from our office and John Marcelleti who is the site acquisition for this parcel. So this is a petitioner of Horvath Communications and Verizon Wireless. Horvath is a regional uh tower builder and operator will be the operator of this site. Uh Verizon is confirmed as the anchor tenant, the top tenant on this site and as mentioned we do have three requests before you tonight. Um, this site uh is in the northwest corner of 200 South and 600 West. It's located on a parcel approximately 125 acres in size that's owned uh by members of the Schro family. Uh the location of the property was chosen by the owners in consultation with petitioners. The location was chosen to decrease disruption to the A operations occurring on site and to visually shield the base of the tower from as many surrounding properties as possible. I think this is an incredibly important point tonight. The variance from the setback from the residential use is most impactful to the owners. The people who chose the site, proposed this site, they are the most impacted by this proposed uh variance. These are the same individuals who helped choose the location. The tower is not located within 500 ft of any residential structure owned by a third party. So there is one structure located within 500 ft and that is of the property owners who chose that location. The towers design here is a monopole design. It's 135 ft in overall height 125 ft plus a 10ft arresttor. Verizon is the 100 the center line of 120 feet at this height. In this location, there is no required lighting. As mentioned, it's located behind the barn in an existing

tree line to shield uh the base from 200 south and from 600 West. This is important as well. Any other location which is 500 ft from a residential structure on this property will be more visually impactful to surrounding property owners because it will be in the middle of an agricultural field. It will have no base shielding. We can put it in the middle of a field with no base shielding, meet your 500 foot requirement. Uh we think this is a much better location. It is much more in line with the intent of the ordinance and much much less impactful to the community at large. One more point I'll bring up on tower design and in the file is a fall zone letter from an Indiana licensed engineer which indicates that this tower will be designed to have a zero fall radius. meaning it will collapse upon itself. Uh this eliminates uh any risk from tow tower failure based on this reduced setback to the residential and agricultural structures located on the parent parcel. This slide shows the search ring for this site and the towers within 2 miles. The search ring here is relatively small. It's in the bottom right hand corner picture. Uh the selected property here is the largest property within the search ring. Uh and the within the search ring, the existing improvements in natural sheeting allow this location to have the least impact on surrounding properties while meeting the coverage objectives of Verizon Wireless. This these propagation maps show the before and after where coverage of Verizon Wireless customers will be improved by the construction of this tower. In the file is a letter from Verizon Wireless's RF engineer which indicates that there is no existing tower in the area which meets the the coverage objectives. This is this affidavit is in compliance with Indiana code in relationship to why collocation was not pursued at this location.

have three photo simulations here that provide uh some example or some showing of how we believe from the west, south, and east. Uh that this shows what's described that the nearest residential areas utilizing of the trees uh along this stretch will largely shield the base of this tower more so than a location which is in compliance with the 500 ft setback from the residential structure on the parent parcel. This picture here is new uh from last month. This shows a significant amount of overhead abovegrade utility infrastructure located in the nearby vicinity. Wireless communications facilities are just that above ground utility infrastructure which is not contemplated in comp plans but is necessary and expected in modern society in all zoning districts. As mentioned, we do have a revised site plan uh that meets we believe meets the intent. I believe staff has confirmed that it meets the intent of the ordinance. talk briefly about staff's comments regarding precedent uh and the failure to show compliant while compliant locations were not exhausted here first as you know under Indiana law variances are not presidential as a practitioner I wish they were I wish I could come in and say you granted this before and you got to grant it to me but that's not how it works

two minutes

uh the interpretation of the setback from residential districts here has been interpreted to be from a structure and not from a district and as I've previously mentioned the only loc structure within that is on the parent parcel. We believe uh that this they helped choose the location and where a different location to be chosen that complied with the ordinance would be more visually impactful to the community. Staff report also uh provides that compliant locations were not pursued. We respectfully disagree. We did do that and determined that putting it in the middle of an agricultural field is not in the best interest of the community at large. Um the community at large uh Verizon I'll point one other thing out. Verizon does not have the ability to force a landowner to lease space for a wireless communications facility. So, we are looking for a location where we have a willing land owner that meets our coverage objectives and most closely complies with the ordinance's intent. We believe what's before you tonight just does just that.

I'll wrap up by we do have a letter in the file that we provided that attempts to address many of the concerns raised by remmonstrators at last month's hearing related to health issues and uh property values. We would incorporate that into the record. Fin before you tonight is a special exception which is ready for your approval as well as two variances. We have submitted findings of fact and supporting materials for these requests which we' incorporate into the record and ask for your favorable vote tonight. And with that I'm happy to answer any questions that the board has any questions? I was curious what what is your take on started to hint at it a little bit but the the fi it's the it's 500 ft from a residential structure uh and you've demonstrated by your exhibit that you meet that exceed that with this location. But if you drew that circle around there, 500 ft, you would impact uh the neighbors property to the to the south of 200 South. Correct. That would that would hinder their ability to get a building permit. Perhaps

I um let me back up and say 500. It's 541 ft to the nearest structure that's not located on our property.

Right. So, um I I don't know of any imposition or or thing that would preclude someone from making improvements on their own property because they're located within 500t of a tower. Um, further the fact that we've submitted a fall zone letter uh that indicates that this will have a zero fall radius collapse upon itself uh means that it will not have any impact um you know uh on any surrounding uh structure let alone something that's more than 500 ft away. Uh it's also only 125 foot 125 ft tower. Um so even if it did fall like a pencil, which it will not do, um it would not fall outside of this pro this property owner's parcel. So that reduced setback from our perspective has no impact on its surrounding property owners because we the ordinance has as mentioned has a little bit of internal contradiction whether it's to the district or whether it's to a structure. um even most liberally applied as being to a structure. The only structure that falls within that is on our parcel.

Okay. So in your letter under the property value concerns, you don't do you have any any evidence that it does not affect the property values of the properties to the to the south or that it enhances or degrades or

I can tell you that the uh Pew indicates that you know highspeed wireless uh is uh a major factor in determining property values and choice of homes. Um, I can tell you that there's about between 20 20 and 30% of Americans who get their highspeed internet through their wireless provider. So, the absence of that absence of highspeed internet through their wireless provider, we think is a negative uh to to the ability to sell homes. I can tell you that um we have uh had experts stand in front of boards like yourself over the years that provide a longitudinal study that say before a tower, after a tower, what does that do to property values in Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio? And never found there to be a a difference um preconstruction and post construction of that. Okay. Any more questions for the petitioner? All right. Thank you. All right. So, we have uh seven minutes for remmonstration uh as collective. So, how many people do we have that would like to speak this evening? Two. Just two. A lot of people here. Two. All right. You each get three and a half. Who would like

got a third over there? A third one. Okay. All right. Okay. So, we'll divide up the seven minutes. So, I think yeah, your hand came up first. So, come on up. And then uh just be uh mindful. Do you want to maybe give him a three threem minute warning or something that he's inching up on other people's time? Swear or affirm under the penalty perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes. State your name. Spell your last name. Jason Richard Fox. FOX.

Hi. I submitted a lot of information last month and with a lot of time I don't really have time to go over all of it. Now, while I appreciate Verizon's attention to detail on the uh visual aspect of it, I'm here for the health concerns. My mom lives across the street. You know, our property is 677 ft from the from the thing. And I'm not worried about although there are uh housing of urban development studies from 2004 that show that there could be property value um drops up to 9 to 21% within 1,000 ft of these types of towers. Now that's a 2004 study. I don't have anything more updated than that, but it doesn't sound like they do either. So I've got to go by the most recent study I've got. But what I do have are studies that I submitted to the board and the paperwork that I turned in about studies um from even European countries and even our own country about the health effects. I'm worried about the unseen. These things pump out a ton of radiation. You can't block that. They they just can't. Uh the most recent study that I got from uh you know, sorry, my papers are everywhere. I was trying to jump around. Um, the most recent studies I've got show that within distance of 1,312 ft from a German study from as recent as 20 2022. So, and one of their rebuttals, which I submitted the rebuttal and I was kind of counteracting the rebuttal is that they um are they tell us that we the RF the American Cancer Society shows that this type of radiation is safe. But there's been multiple studies that that study is very old. off the top of my head, I believe it's from 1996. And then they also said, "We can't in their rebuttal worry about what European countries are doing." Well, yes, I can. They have more updated studies. Science grows. Science gets better. Science tells us. I mean, I've been a pharmacist for almost 20 years. I can tell you case and case that large companies have told us things are safe and then we find out years later they're not. Most recently, the food dies. We're finding out that

those red dyes that they've been putting in our food supply forever have not been safe. I do not want to be the guinea pig for my family that says, "Oh, yeah, that type of radiation caused cancer throughout your whole family." No, I don't. And if I'm going to go by studies that are more strict in other countries, yes, until they show me sight specific data that shows that this site will not affect my family when it comes to RF radiation. So, when they can show me that and I can evaluate it, then I'll be more on board for it. In addition to that, in their rebuttal, they also um talked about how these types of towers are found in high density areas, hospitals, schools, cities. Okay, keep them there. You know, if we look at this the map that he just uh with the the red and orange and yellow that shows you how much radiation is being added to the area, the propagation map he just showed that that that's right across the street from my house. I don't want it. So, I'm asking the board to consider the health and safety of my family, the community, meet standards that are being found with scientific data. I don't care if they're in another country. You know, the scientific data does not is not country specific.

So, let's go by that. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Who else do we have? We had somebody else over on the right side. Yeah. Come come on up, sir. either one if you want to go first and I've spoken before the last meeting. So if you want to go ahead.

Hi, good evening. I pulled the mic microphone down a little bit. Yeah, thanks. Okay, thank you. Are you in? Raise your right hand, please. So, may I ask what jurisdiction are we in, ma'am? What are we moving by? Statutes or the common law, please? Combination of both. I'm sorry. A combination of both. But can I swear you in um this what what the reason why I bring this forward to the board is that as far as I need to swear you in before you can't hear your without a without a um a swearing in. We have to have you. Our rules and procedures require it to be sworn in. And if we take your testimony and listen to your testimony, we can't. You actually have my testimony. My name is Jill Jones.

And I've actually this is not a real court, but if we can get beyond that, this is entirely statutory. And so what I want to bring forward is the common law for the people. If I'm to swear, I will swear in an affidavit. You're out of order, ma'am. Yeah. We unfortunately we just we have rules and procedures for our board. You have to address us actually is another one of our

it's administrative. Okay. And so this is my first time here but I have a real problem because I see no judge and where are where is the 12 jury members? This is entirely statutory. And so as far as the notice that was given um there was a cease and desist by the people and that means to stop. We can't hear this and not action on the cell tower. I'm afraid we may just have to leave. We can't listen to unfortunately.

Right. And here's the thing. You are not elected officials and ma'am private bar. You're with a private association. Correct. You're not government. Correct. MO a motion to adjurnn momentarily while this is motion to recess, excuse me. Yes. Motion to recess, please. All right. Moved and seconded to recess. All in favor, commissioners. So, unfortunately, I apologize that that had to happen and it slowed your your meeting down this evening. Maybe just a motion to reconvene from. We do need that. Yes. I make a motion. Move we reconvene. I'll second. All right. Moved and seconded to reconvene. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Oppos. Same sign. Okay. Thank you. So

we we were on the rental of remmonstrators and we had so we have four minutes left for any other remmonstrators. Yeah. So sir, did you want to still speak? Is it possible to push my time to Mr. Fox? Yeah. Choose. Sure. Yeah. We have four minutes remaining. Yeah. Just I'm sorry before you stop. Does anybody else want any time? Everybody's good. Okay. Thank you, sir. I just didn't want that to be how this ended on my my uh my concern. Okay. I don't want what happened just there to overshadow the health concerns that I have uh with this board or with anybody else in the room. Like

the tip, whatever is going on with that or whatever. I have no idea about that. I'm concerned about the health data that I presented to the board and and and you know the the property values and and I do appreciate Verizon looking into like trying to hide the tower that that that's great but block the RF radiation we're good and they can't do that and nobody can. And one of the things that they put in their uh rebuttal that I didn't get to that I did want to say is that they said you get more use or or more RF or more radiation from like your micro or from your microwaves, your cell phones and stuff like that. And while that might be accurate, I haven't researched that. I'm not sitting next to my microwave all day every day with it pumping radiation out at me. This is a continuous use thing that's continually pumping out these frequencies, these microwaves, whatever other frequencies they're pumping out. whereas my microwave turns off usually after I heat up my dinner. So, that's all I wanted to say. Appreciate it.

Could I ask you a question? Me? I'm sorry. You don't know where to look anymore, do you? Um, so you me you cited some data on property values. Could you remind me what that was or what your source was for that?

It was a 2004 report from the Housing of Urban Development. Um I submitted it I believe in the original paperwork that I turned in last month but remember there was that deal where I didn't get there it cited the sources with that on that but um it said anywhere between a 9 to uh 21% reduction in property value cost with uh when we're within 1,000 ft. I mean even the pushing it back to 1,000 ft there's still that that property value. And again I I haven't found any more current data than that. Um, so I I doubt that they have it. If they do, I would love some some some some more data to look into that to say if they're it's going to affect my property value or not. And then you brought up a good point when you were talking to the gentleman is if I want to build any further structures and I find out down the road that there's some ordinance or I I forget the exact term that you use that prevents me from building a structure because this was allowed. Boy, I'm going to be mad.

Yeah. I don't know that that's No, I don't either. That's what I It's something to consider though, right? It is in some cases, you know, with like, you know, like confined feeding or whatever, but it wasn't even on my radar for that. But I mean, it could be, it could not be. And so that's just there's there's all these variables, but the big one is my health concern. Yeah. And I I read your stuff um actually a couple times and it was just interesting, but there just doesn't seem to be much data in the US. It's Europe, Canada, but the US just seems to be

and it's complete conjecture on my part, but I wonder who, you know, the again, this is just complete conjecture from my experience in the pharmaceutical industry. I compare them with any big corporation is those big studies are generally paid for by companies when they know the results that they want to get. Now, maybe that is not the case. Maybe it is the case. Maybe there's a reason that those studies, it's awful interesting that we're not having studies and we're relying on these studies that are extremely old. Um, you know, 20 30 plus years, you know, 2019, was it a 2019 study? 2019 that says people pay on average. Just a minute. Yeah, you're out of Yeah, unfortunately. We can swear you in if you would like to come up. Okay, go ahead.

All right, thanks. You're done. How much time do we have? Uh, my check. um say because I'm not I cleared my um phone, but you had about two and a half minutes. Yeah, two and a half. Okay. So, please raise that mic up to your mouth a little closer and then um Yeah. Thank you. And then do you swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do. Uh John Swezy, last name s. And uh we're relying on a 2004 study while there is a 2019 study by the wireless equity uh group and they say that there is a general decrease in property values within a,000 ft of one of these by about 7.6%. Uh so that will something be something that you need to weigh when you're looking at it. You can find that at wireless equity.com and the uh it's house cell towers impact property values. Um you'll potentially want to look into that before you make a decision. Thank you. All right.

All right. Do we have any government officials who would like to speak this evening?

Do you swear or firm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do. name is Joseph Scott Waldridge. W O L D R I D G E. Um I spoke up last time. Same thing. I think it should be 500 ft. And then I heard your comments. Um and and I I I think you're right. I think there is a concern because I'm wondering if the Borgman property, which is right across the street, is within 500 ft from that where they're drawing the cell tower. that would obviously cause a a uh a big substantial change what they can do with it. Let alone I think you're right. I think you have to look at how the planning department works and how we are and when you put that cell tower in it's going to mean even if that one house exempts himself it's going to mean 500 feet all around is not so then that's going to have to stay a farm field pretty much I would guess forever uh or turn into woods or something. So I mean it is something to consider. I still stand by you know I think 500 feet's in the best interest. It's the health concerns that people have. I think that's what was set when we did the ordinances. I think it's probably the reasoning behind it. That'd be my guess. That'd be what I would vote for if I was a commissioner and considering it. So, but that's it. Thanks. Unless you have questions. Any other government officials here that'd like to speak this evening? All right. Uh, the petitioner has a three minute rebuttal period. Great. Thank you. Um, and I had something new in my career. I'd never had that before this evening.

Neither have I. Unfortunately, I apologize that that happened in the middle of your petition. Not not your doing.

Um, I'll I'll start by a couple things. One is obviously you have a letter in the file that we would stand by a position that health issues are not permitted for consideration and that your consideration of them subjects any decision made by this board to be overturned judicially. Um the setback to the remr's home uh exceeds the setback that's required by your ordinance. We have a 385 ft set back to the nearest property to the nearest residential property line. We have more than 540 ft to the nearest residential structure not contained on this property. I would I would also state um that there's not a prohibition of building a new structure within 500 ft.

The prohibition is a cell tower cannot be located within a residential structure. So there is no safe zone. There is no dead zone around this that would be uh occur by by you granting uh this special exception and variances this evening. Also, as provided in our letter, uh case law is very clear that in order for property values to be considered by this board as a reason to deny a wireless communication facility, it needs to be particular to this location. Not generalized concerns, not concerns from a 2014, 2019, 2004, 2025 study. Unless it pertains to this location, it it is generalized property value concerns or insufficient reason uh to support a denial. by this board. We talked there was some mention about who pays for the studies. I can tell you that wireless equity is very clearly an anti-ell tower uh group. Uh and that is not saying that that bismerches or eliminates the validity of their study, but who pays for it, who uh posts it is certainly something um that for you to consider. I will also just point out that this is not a pro a prohibited use in this zoning classification. uh it is permitted provided that it meets all the other requirements. Uh we meet all but two of those. One is the setback to residential structure. The other is camouflaging

one minute. Um and simply you know we believe that a short tower buffered as it is from surrounding uses uh meets the intent of that and staff is supportive of that request. So, we believe that this stands ready for your uh review and approval tonight and would respectfully request your vote in favor of it. I just have a maybe a follow-up question. In staff recommendation, there is an approval with conditions as recommended for the special exception for a technical committee review as well as uh working with Purdue Extension. Are you we confirmed that you are open and we're we're okay with those conditions. any other uh traditional conditions that need to carry that you should go with

if I could I could volunteer and add one and that is that we would be bound by the the no fall zone letter that's included that that design would be a requirement of of it Rhonda any other typical special exception conditions that we should consider this I can think of other than what staff's recommended. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any discussion on conditions? General discussion amongst the board. Procedure of your handing handling one by one.

I think that would be best in this instance. Yeah, I think um I think we need to do the special exception first and then we could do the variances together if you wanted to vote on those together or we So I'll make a motion that should the spe special exception be approved staff recommendations as consented by the applicant will carry and there will be a new number too uh incorporating the no fall zone letter as recommended by second and that for the special exception. That's the way it's reflected. Okay. Got it. Okay. Documentation.

All right. It's been moved and seconded that should the special exception be granted, it be subject to the stated conditions. All those in favor signify by saying I. I.

Opposed. Same sign. Motion carries. So, please uh do your special exception ballot first. We'll count those and then we'll move to the to the variances. [Music] That was stuff from last month. Okay. The special exception for case number 25-2590 is granted a vote of 4 to zero. Okay. Now we can we'll move on to our ballots for the the two variances. And like I've said before, let's mark uh camouflaging on one and set back on the other for the count.

[Applause] [Applause] Okay. for the variance on the setback in case number 25-2590. The variance is denied vote of 4 to zero. And variance number 25-2590 for the camouflage is a tie to granted to denied. The denied would be long and faucet.

So that one continues. Yeah. So that that would mean that variance would would continue. Um if you want to come back next month with that question. Sure. Yeah. I noticed you listed a vacancy um on your board. Is that still the case? You still have a vacancy or has that been I I don't have a good answer. My understanding My understanding is that the board that's a border commissioner's appointment.

Um they intend to appoint that person on the 29th, I believe. So that person should be in service um in service like a fire and should be here um next next month. Yeah. We'll just stay in contact with staff then about whether or not to come come back. It's the same for members. It feels silly to not to come. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um sorry that took so long. Um item number two, gold mine holdings.

Yes. I walked in by the fact that there's a vacancy. Apparently, you said that a continuence would be granted and I'd like to request that before anybody has to wait longer. Okay. Yeah. So, just so you guys I I should have asked you guys before I said that, but because of the abbreviated board and folks wanting, you know, the a five member vote, I had said and I think I talked with Kayla about it, too, that um we can we did we have in the past granted those and I think that we could continue to do that in this case and just Yeah. And we offered it at the beginning of the meeting too, which I like I said, I know you were like that's not a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. So if

for just the gold mine and it would be Oh, I'm not here for gold mine. I'm sorry. I'm trying to save time. I'm here for mega farm. My apologies. But the last time it was continued. I didn't get a chance to state that until we were called. And there were some people that were upset about that. So they still may be upset, but hopefully not as upset. We trying to get out. So item number three, gold mine or question. Item number three, mega farm. Yeah. Did we if we're going to move on the agenda, we we should pro I mean we just follow procedures where it in and consent for that.

Yeah, we'll we'll go ahead with item number two and then we'll just for the following the process we'll just vote on that continuence on my request simply. Yeah, if I could have stated at the outset, I would have because if there are people here for consistency, uh I mean just usually swearing in to address the board is necessary. Yes, under the testimony you're about to give us the truth that hold the truth. I do. My name is Brian House, partner with Pritzky and Davis. I respectfully request the continuence of item number three because of an incomplete board. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. All right, let's move back to item number two, Goldmine Holdings. So item number two, gold gold mine holdings um is requesting one um standard under our nonresidential sign standard um the address of the subject property is 397 North 600 West um in Greenfield. This is located in the Buck Creek Township. It is located within the commercial neighborhood zoning district. Um and the proposed signage exceeds um the permitted height of 6 ft. They're proposing a 7.5 ft um sign in height and it also um exceeds the 32 ft um that is permitted and they're requesting um 48 um square ft. C

can I ask before we we've since it was requested to be continued due to the full board to be present. We don't have not not this case the um it's the mega form. Well, we continued last month because of the full board. We have we asked before Well, we asked at the beginning, but I'll ask again. Did the Are you Who Who is the petitioner? You're good to continue.

Okay. Are you Are you the petitioner? Yeah. Show up tonight forward.

Okay. All right. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. Um the petitioner submitted a statement of intent. The petitioner is requesting to install a monument sign that is 7.5 ft tall with a square footage of 48. Um the allowable height is um 6 ft tall with a square footage of 32 square ft. The sign is being placed from the intersection and increased sign increased size will allow the visibility um to be greater for the distance um and landscape will be provided. So this is the site plan the petitioner provided. Um, circled in red is the location of the proposed sign. Um, as well as the setbacks of the sign, the sign. Um, currently on the site, this is open space. There's nothing necessarily limiting visibility for this sign. Um, and then in the future, there will be some landscaping installed, but even then, um, this wouldn't adversely affect the visibility of this sign, um, being proposed at this location. [Applause] This is just a image um depicting the proposed signage that the petitioner is asking the variance for and the applicable standards are general sign standard. Um it uh talks about the intent of the signs um and um some general sign standards that are applicable throughout all the um zoning districts. Um I also like to mention that they um also have the option of be to be able to install a wall sign as well. Um in our provision um in our standards um wall

sign is permitted for them on their um facade um closest to where this proposed monument sign is being proposed. Non-residentidential sign standards are also applicable. Um and they are asking a varian under the commercial neighborhood zoning district for the sign for ground floor use. Um number six ground and monument sign one ground sign um is permitted not exceeding the square footage of 32 ft and not exceeding the height of six. The decision criteria um general welfare um adjacent properties as well as um practical difficulty. Um in the staff recommendation we um are providing two potential options for our recommendation. Uh one is approval as presented with the following conditions that landscaping is installed um around the signed base as shown in the plans. The other condition is the elimination of the white background around the BP logo shall be shall not be um permitted to mitigate the potential of um hazard hazards associated with excessive brightness um during the night time. Um the other option the board can um take into consideration is a recommendation of denial due to the application not demonstrating a unique condition or hardship. Um the desire um to increase sign visibility does not itself um constitute a harshet. Um especially with not having anything that is um covering the sign for visibility. [Applause]

Are there any questions? I have one question. This is 600 um and there's an overlay district. There's regional. Did any this no notice went out to all those parties and they had nothing to say? Uh we did receive a letter of support from the church that's next to it. Um that should be in your photos as well, but nothing with the overlay. Nothing against it. Just that letter of support and and and and they were noticed or it it's just the default notice program that we have. Rhonda, say that again. Um we and I and I apologize, but I forget the name. It's the regional neighborhood group. all those that that that received notice of these types of areas just because it's in kind of the overlay district.

I don't think that group was ever actually officially created, but everybody that wants notice can sign up for notice. So, all of that notice would have would have went out. Okay. And there's no statements from them. Yeah. Got it. Thank you. Okay. I I had another question. I think I clarified with I think I clarified with Kayla earlier, but I just wanted for everybody the the height and I think you said it in here actually even the height is starts at the right the grade of the right of way the nearest right of way right so it's 6 feet well 7 feet variance um from the grade of the adjacent rightway

I believe so that's correct okay I've never seen Before we had option one and option two, are you recommending denial? But if approved, then you go with option one. We recommended um because let me see here. That was can be kind of my question reading through the notes. I'm kind of what is staff recommending?

What is staff? You're right. My question too. Um so staffer is recommending denial but in the case that um the board decides to approve it we would like these conditions to be um put in place. Okay. Thank you. All right. Okay. Thank you. Um there's somebody the petitioner. Yes. Got to let the petitioner speak.

Yes, there you go. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Please state your name, spell your last name.

Um Cindy Thrasher. T H R A S H E R. Um, I'm here to represent the owner of this property and um, like staff said, we were asking for a variance um, to allow for the difference in the height of the seven allowed to be 7 feet tall and then um, also the 48 square ft versus the 32 due to um, the location, the speed of the traffic. Um the owner thought that being a little larger would make the sign more visible because he did push it all the way to the end of the property. So it's approximately 400 ft from that main intersection and then he did push it back some towards the building. So it wasn't right out um at the intersection. Um as far as the options that that the uh staff had also recommended um they're more than willing to do any landscaping that is necessary. Um and then they also said I didn't know if this was an option or not. Uh they we've had it before um where they had asked that not be lit um if it is a possible um for them to turn it off at night. So it it be lit during the day but no lighting at night since that was a concern because we have had that in other areas that that's how they handled that issue. Okay. I'm just always a little confused. I mean, it's not the grand scheme of things, but it's it's not that much bigger than

Yeah.

Yeah. They just wanted a little larger. They didn't want to make the variance um you know, extremely large. They just wanted a small deviation just to make it. They thought because some of the other area signs are really large, but of course they've been there for a while. So, they just wanted it to be a little larger than what was allowed and not ask for because in the beginning they wanted a really big one. But then after talking to staff and they were um saying that they didn't want to approve that, he decided to go down and make it smaller, but it was still a little larger. Okay. Okay. picture the layout where it's showing. Is there current signage now and this will replace it or there's no signage now?

No, there is not any signage. Nothing's been placed. Okay. And and this was not handled in the original design application that I don't know. I just got involved when the sign company got hired to put the post that monument sign out. Okay. And and by right um it's just I mean it's not that big of a difference and it would be in the same location by right. This is where you'd put it if in in in what's outlined in the Yes. design. Okay. All right. All right. Any more questions for the petitioner? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Do we have anybody like to speak in opposition to this sign too? All right. We've got seven minutes. Split it between you. I think Larry's hand went up first. Mad Rush. Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

I do. Larry Sedam SD dam. Uh for the records, there is a sign out lit in the front. Um if you drive by. So um the excuse that people be driving by too fast, that's right at the roundabout at 300 and 600. Correct. I don't know about you, but you shouldn't be going faster than 15 20 miles in that roundabout. though I don't know how you're going to miss that sign if it's normal. The big key is this is a mountain comfort corridor. We keep fighting and fighting and fighting for it to remain in compliance. Stay in compliance. It's not that big of a difference. Stay in compliance. We fought this down the road. Some of the warehouses wanted monster signs. We fought it. We we one keep the corridor the way it's supposed to be. That's why we spent all that money on that study. That's why we should keep it the way it is. I know 38 to 46, whatever it is, it's not that big a deal. It is when you keep keep changing this corridor or keep changing the rules for this corridor. Keep it the same is what we're asking. Again, if you're going around the roundabout so fast that you can't see the sign, that that's that's that's not not right.

Not safe. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thanks. Sorry. I have a question for you. Oh, come on back. Question time. Oh, someone's got a question for me. There's a sign out there already. There is a sign out there and it is lit. Where is it? It's on the south west corner, I think. Right. It's uh it's on 600. It's lit. It's like on post. It's it's the temporary sign. It's the temporary sign.

So, it does have a sign almost identical to one of the ones that you see there except it's not in concrete and it's probably sitting a little closer to where the road is instead of further back by the church. So, yes. Anything else? No, that's it. Thank you. All right. Thanks. All right. Thanks. One up, sir.

Do you swear affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Do Gary Borgman. Borgman is B O R G M A N. And I also can verify it. There is a sign there. Um, I have property across the street from it. And I think this request to make this sign this tiny bit larger is ridiculous. Um, and I think we should stick with the rules and ordinances that we've created and and hold to them. Um, especially in this case where it's so insignificant. So, all right.

Thank you. Anybody else like to speak in opposition to the petition? No. All right. You have some rebuttal time if you'd like to use it. 3 minutes.

Um I don't really have much to rebuttal. The one thing the sign I've said there was not a sign because it was a temporary sign. It's there wasn't a permanent sign installed yet. So that's what I assumed you were asking. Just want to make sure you didn't think I was just lying. Um, but and the speed of the traffic, it isn't for the traffic coming around from the roundabout. It's for the more distant traffic so that they can see from a distance that there is a gas station up there, not for the, you know, the people right there in the roundabout. Okay, these um you probably heard me ask and I I don't want to keep beating the topic, but the where you measure the height from, what is the intent? Yeah.

Of where where you would measure that height from because it show on the exhibit. Yeah. It's from ground level from the dirt to the top of the sign. Okay. Just the just the adjacent where it's going to be, not out at the rightway, right? Because I think you could go you might be able to go a little higher than what you're looking at is what I guess I'm getting at is because it would be I believe what we checked Kayla was the adjacent right away. Correct. That's what we checked earlier. That's correct. Yeah. So it might be you can get it a little higher than what you're planning currently because they were going just from their the level of their property. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you. I have one question for staff. Oh for staff.

Yeah. For staff. Is there anything in um UDO that's at all address I just addressing signage? Are we changing anything in UDO for sign regulations are getting a complete overhaul in the UDO. Okay. [Music] Okay. Um I think we're missing anything. So I think if there's no discussion uh any discussion on the uh staff conditions I think the only recommendation is that on option one number two it would be allowed to be on during the day but off at night. I think that was the only amendment we would consider. So yeah, so option option one has the two conditions of the landscaping and then uh the illumination of the white background that you're saying we could amend to be uh on during the day off at night. Um so does anybody want to address those conditions with a motion or

uh what we have typical conditions that we'd extend for exceeding sign aggregate? Yes, we do. And I do think that perhaps that would be good to have in our conditions um incorporated by reference. Uh they are building we should probably ask for consent from the petitioner. Uh building permits related should be obtained within 12 months located or presented not exceed square footage advertised. The square footage advertised. I think it says 300, but I think it's just Yeah, it says 300 here, but I would say

square footage. If we're going to do this, I think it's not as be square footage as advertised and presented. Yep. Okay. Um Mrs. Thrasher, what we're discussing is some additional conditions from what you've already heard tonight, which would be um that your your building permits related to this variance be obtained within 12 months of the above approval date and the sign be located where presented on your um application and that the sign may not exceed the um as advertised area. Yes, all good with that. Okay.

Was there any more than just those? I think that was it that I found. So maybe a motion should there be a um a granting of this that um staff recommendations and conditions would carry and the um three standard variants for the aggre the sign aggregate as presented would would attach as well. I I'm not amending that that's that I wouldn't amend in my motion. I'm not amending the the white background. Okay. Not Yeah. Okay. Second.

All right. It's been moved and seconded to uh attach the stated conditions to the variant should it be approved. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Please go ahead and fill out your ballots.

You don't have to stand there and wait on us if you sit down. How did I lose my pallet? Okay. Okay. The variance for case number 25-2596 is denied. A vote of 321 uh with um Miss Casey um granting.

All right. Thank you for your time. All right. Um item number three, mega fararm uh was uh Mr. House uh requests the variance due to wanting a full board. Uh so we could uh take a motion on that request continuence. Sorry, what did I say? So moved. Yeah. All right. Second. Moved in a second to grant the continuence of item number three megaarmm due to our u abbreviated board this evening. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Thank you.

Thank you. And I believe you believe that the commissioners may make an appointment on the 29th this month. That's what I understand. Yes, that's what I understand. Yeah. I don't know for sure. I think it's on the agenda. I think so. Very good. Have a good evening. Thank you. Do you want these back for that for that petition? Um, yes, please. Want to leave them in your f? I shall do so.

Lacy, let's do those. They do. I I'll give them a big pile at the end. See, makeup. Yeah, you'll get those. Yeah, you'll get those. My first one doing this by myself without Darla. So, I'll keep you. Yeah, we usually wait till the end of the meeting and give them to you. Okay. Good. All right. Item numbers

four uh variance to reduce required 15t set back Mr. Mr. Judy. So Judy variance this was a continuence from last month due to the um to the one voting um it automatically continued for this month. Um this is a uh request for one variance uh to reduce the required 10 foot side side se side sideyard setback to three um for a proposed garage. The subject property is located at 3493 south uh 500 west in New Palestine within the um R2.5 zoning district. So, a little bit of uh the timeline for this pet petition. Um just for clarification for the board, um the petition, any petition is required a pre-filing meeting. Um for this specific case, the um pre-filing meeting was held on April 30th. Um as I said, um pre-filing meetings are required for any petition um for this board. Um, and this just goes over with a pet petitioner about um the votings that it can have um all the requirements they need to do in order to get the petition on the agenda. Um, variance application was submitted to the planning department on May 30th. Um, and due to the June BZA agenda being already full at the time of the filing, um, the petitioner wasn't notified that this was going to be on the July agenda. Um and then on June 4th, the planning department received a formal withdrawal of a petition on the um June BZA agenda. Um therefore, it would open up a space for um a new petition. And so um staff

notified Mr. Judy that they could move up their case for the um June BCA meeting um if they so choose to. And petitioner agreed and they paid their filing fee on June 4th. um therefore officially moving their first hearing to the June 26 BCA meeting. Um at that public hearing, the variance request was heard on June 26 um with the quorum of 3 to five of the members presented. Um a federal motion was made and received a vote of two A's and uh one no. uh without a third voter um for a for or against the motion um the BZA was unable to make a decision to approve or deny the variance request. Therefore, it was continued to um the July 24th BZA, therefore having it second hearing. Um the petitioner did provide us a letter of intent. Um and if um he so chose to, he can go over that. Um this is the site plan they provided. Um in red it shows the proposed garage um in the propo proposed setbacks um to um the third 3 ft setback um to the property line um is what they're requesting for tonight. These are some more images for um the proposed garage of how that would look. Um staff recommendation um has not changed from the last meeting. Um we um are are recommending an approval with the modification that the um approved setback reduction um from the 10 ft to actually be 5T. Noting that the setback

it is from the edge of the overhang and not the foundation. Any questions? So this this petition that came last month, it is u the petitioner didn't change any anything about it, right? Um, one of the things I was wondering about though that I don't know that I caught last month was that it's a request from 15 ft to 3 ft, but I believe that the plat allowed 10, right? You're correct. Okay. Mhm. So, as opposed to a 12T, it's a it's a seven. Okay. Wait, what?

Um, so the the zoning our the ordinance would say 15. This property is in a plat that um allowed 10 feet sideyard setbacks. Yeah. So, so the variance isn't as big as what it looks I guess on paper. So, so um instead of the 15, we're at the 10 and we're not going to three is to five.

The the staff recommendation is five instead of three for requested three. Yeah. And I believe last month we had a condition that was five feet to the wall. Correct. Not five feet to the overhang. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. Um the recommendation though is that edge of the overhang not foundation. Is that how it's reading? So that was a staff recommendation and then um for the board they decided um Got it. That's where that's where we ended last last month. Yeah. Okay. Good. Thank you. If there are any other questions, I will turn it over to the petitioner. Okay, petitioner here. Come on up.

Do you swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes. Please state your name, spell your last name. David Judy, J U D Y. Seven minutes.

Uh, I really don't have too much more to add. Um, like I said, we're going to move it to the five from the 3T to the 5T, which we're totally okay with. Uh, it's where it's being proposed now is in the perfect location. Uh, it can't really move farther backwards uh to the um to the east. That would be in the same position of where we're at now. Um, can't move it farther to the north or south. It's in the perfect location where it needs to be. Um the uh 24 it's 30 feet long, 24 feet wide. Uh it's a lot of measuring and time has gone into determining that length, that depth and width. That's what it needs to be. Uh the current garage that's attached to our house now is 20 ft. And uh it's cramped as it is now. That's why we're wanting to build a little bit bigger garage. That's not with my vehicle in it. Uh it's my wife's vehicle and everything we have now. Uh we don't have an attic for storage. Uh we have an attic. It's just not right for storage. Um we are wanting to start a family here soon, so we we definitely need the space. So this would be perfect for us. Um to the south of us, there's no there's no fire threat or anything like that. It's just open grass, vacant lot. Uh no trees, no no structures. the uh pastor of the Methodist church has called me in support. Uh he's really excited about what what we are wanting to do and what we've done. We've completely renovated that house. We've added a lot of uh value um to that house and to the community around it and we're wanting to do even more. So, he's excited about what we're want to do right next to his property. He told me that um detach garage will increase the value of

the property from 5 to 15%. Uh it's a win-win for all. It's good for us, good for the community, it's good for the county. Um my wife and I are from here. We went to New Palestine High School, both athletes. Uh we love this uh community, love the county. We bought our first home uh in Hancock County, and we're wanting to start a family and raise them in Hancock County. So, um, yeah, this is, uh, is important. So, that's all I have. Okay. I did want to let you know that you had you had voiced a concern to some of your elected officials and that did make its way here. So, it was heard. So,

um, the chronology though was a little hard to follow. Um, I was told that you were here for 3 months consecutively. Uh, but it didn't appear that that was the case. I just want to make sure that we clarified that to them. No, I didn't say that. They must have misheard what I said. I I did not say that. Last month was my first time.

Okay. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a confusion there as to how the staff was handling the case. So, um, there were a few conditions that we typically do with these setbacks that we didn't address last month. kind of in a we're kind of sporadic there. Um, you said you're fine with the five feet to the wall or five feet to the overhang. Well, last month you guys stated overhang. That's what it was last month. And then you said wall today. Um, so if it goes with the overhang, it's a it's a one foot overhang. For the minutes, it shows a five foot set back from the wall with a one foot overhang on the garage.

Right. Yeah. So, the staff's recommendation is still to the overhang, but we we amended that last month to be to the wall, which gave you a little more space there. Um, and I came up with I noted a few conditions here in my um review. I was just going to run these by you and see how you felt about them. um that the the structure would not be any larger that uh excuse me than what was noted in the petition which is the 24 by 30 24 by 30 that's fine.

Um no doors on the south elevation opening out into the setback. Got okay. Um the eve height to match or be lower than the primary residence so that the building's not larger. doesn't look like a primary or whatever. Color to match the house. Mhm. Okay. Um down spouts. We talked about that last month. Down spouts to point to the north. Yep. Onto your property. Yep. Um so

um you mentioned that the you've mentioned a couple times that the pastor was okay with it, likes it. Um, do you have any emails or anything that you could from him that you could give to the staff to put into the into the file? Cuz I know he he gave me a phone call. He actually asked if he wanted to be here. I said he can if he wants to. He doesn't have to. Yeah. But that's I have a phone call. Okay. Okay.

Um, and then here's one that's a little bit more difficult that we've done a few times with these, and that's the survey stakes. Um the the reason for that is just because it can get you into some trouble down the road if um they survey and then your neighbor does something and surveys and then your spot's not in the same spot as their spot. Okay. So if before you build it you get it surveyed staked which you would have staking done anyway. But we've found some contractors don't they skip that step. So that way the stakes would be in the ground when the inspectors come and then they could see that the setback was that was approved here was met. Gotcha. So, and it costs a little money, but it kind of prevents issues in the in the future. Okay. So, acceptable as well.

Yeah, it's fine. Okay. All right. I was probably a little premature on that because we got to ask for the remmonstrators, but I just want to make sure that I remember it all. And just to confirm, you are comfortable with what was recommended last time, which is five foot to the wall with a one foot overhang, right? and you're able to reconfigure within the maximum of what is in the petition and comply.

Yeah. So, yeah. Um, we measured it out and from the wall or even from the overhang, it it it works out. So, I know we thought it was going to be the overhang with a 1 foot overhang, which would actually be six feet instead of five. Uh, and that still works out. So, either way it works out. Okay. So, we we measured it either way. If it was going with the overhang, we'd be directly at 10 ft from the septic tank, which of course we can't get any closer than that than 10 ft. So with the wall, it actually gives us an extra foot there. So that actually helps us out a little bit. But either either way, it works out. Okay. Wall or overhang.

Okay. All right. Any more questions? No. All right. Thanks. Thank you. We have anybody that would like to speak in opposition? No. later. Yeah. Speak. You want to speak now or as as a government official? Government. Okay. Anybody speaking opposition? Nope. All right. Government officials. Yep. You are.

Yep. Scott Waldridge again. Um I obviously I came here, you know, I don't want to come here every time. I got better things to be doing. There's Yeah, I do. There. There's there were three there are three things on your agenda that people have been talking to me about. One was the one I came and spoke about. Second one is the tractor trailer parking and the third one is this one. I'm one of the three that myself, Commissioner Spalding and State Representative Lawson, we all received an email from Mr. Judy. I told the other two I would speak with them uh because that's my district. I know it's also Mr. Spalding's but

um and so then I did and I listened to them and when I left I left before you guys voted. I stayed into the hearing and I left because I figured it was going to pass. So I just so I just want to say that um I can't speak on the behalf of the other two, but uh I support uh what he's trying to do here. Uh I I think you know I've driven by there many times. I know you probably have too. Uh it's right there by the land that next to church. So I think it'd be a I think it's going to be a good thing for everything. And it sounds like I liked your your requirements. I think they're fine. Um although that survey is very expensive. So it is but it's a in there's not too many people do it anymore. Right. So Right. Yeah. Yeah. But that's it. Thank you.

Right. Thank you. All right. Um we didn't have any remmonstrators, but did you have anything you wanted to say in your rebuttal time? Nope. All good. All right. Thanks. All right. Any discussion? Um I ran through Mr. Judy was good with the conditions that I ran through. I don't know that you got all those. I could restate them or if you want to make anybody want to make them. You're going to type them out. Well, I'm just I'm taking notes. So, if you would just repeat them. You want me to do it again? Yeah. You want to do it in the form of a motion? Can can you in your role? Do you want me to do it? I can. Yeah, I think I can. That's okay. Right. That'd be good. You're good. Okay.

So, should this variance be approved? I would move that it be subject to the following conditions. uh five the be a five foot set back to the overhang um to the wall. Sorry. Okay. 5 foot overhang. I'm going to restart. Subject shall be shall be 5 feet measured from the wall with one foot overhang. Yes, that's what I have. Okay.

All right. The structure would be no larger than the presented size of 24 by 30. No doors uh on the south elevation opening into the setback. The eve of the structure to match or be lower than the primary residence. The color of the structure uh to match the house. all down spouts to point to the north. Um the the petitioner has test testified that there is no opposition and there is support from the church. So I guess that's hearsay testimony. So I shouldn't really be in the condition I guess but that was on my notes. Um and then the there would be a property line survey and survey stakes for the foundation of the structure to remain in place throughout the construction.

Second. Right. Been moved and seconded to accept the uh conditions as stated. All those in favor signify by saying I. I.

Opposed. Same sign. Motion carries. [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] Uh variance in case number 25-2610 is granted with a vote of 420.

All right. Thanks. You're all set for a building permit. All right. Item number five, James Evan, variance for two signs on a facade not facing a private road. So, Evan variance. Um, the petitioner James Evan is requesting two variances to allow two signs on facads that are not facing a public road or public street. The subject property is located at uh 5821 West um US40. Um, this is located in the commercial neighborhood zoning district. the petitioner has submitted a um letter of intent um and I will allow him to go over that. So, this petition came um to the planning department as a signed um permit application. Um and through the process of reviewing um we saw that two of the proposed signage um didn't meet our standards. Um and in this image, this depicts what I provided to the petitioner um when applying for the signed variant. I mean when applying for the signed permit, um highlighted in purple is what um the planning department deemed as public road. Highlighted in green is what we deem as private um road. And then um as you can see there is um a little um

section where is highlighted yellow um based on our um non-residential sign standards. Um the section that is highlighted in yellow is allowable facade for a um wall sign and currently um sign number four it is um permitted and it has already been granted a permit. um sign one and two um they are not located on a facade that faces a public or private street and so based on our sign standards this wouldn't be allowed. The the petitioner provided a image of the proposed signage. Um this is um one of the sign signs that is were being requested tonight. This is located on the rear facade. Um as mentioned, not facing a public street or private road. Sign number two. Um this is the other um proposed signage. Um this is the second variance that they are requesting. This is located on the side facade that is not facing um any streets. And this just shows um on Beacon a more clear image of like uh how the site is laid out and um the streets um that are located on the side. So um they are um requesting the variance for um wall signs um under our non residential sign standard. Um the decision criteria that the board um can consider is um general for adjacent properties and practical difficulty.

[Applause] And the staff is recommending denial for the two requested sign variants because the proposed um wall signage does not face a uh public or private street. Um the intent of the sign standard is to ensure um signage is directed towards areas of public bas public visi I apologize public visibility and um access. Um the building does have ade adequate amount of code compliant wall space where they are um able to put signage. Um they also do already have an existing um monument sign located on the main road that provides clear and visible u identification for the property. Um and the granting the variance would undermine the proposed sign codes.

You good? Yeah. All right. I had a question um that I forgot to ask you earlier is so this variance is for signs one and two. Yes. Um they're kind of in my mind they're a little they're the same I guess but they're a little different in in their orientation. So if how could we maybe address could we address them separately? Is that a possibility? Um, so since there are two variances, yes, it is two variants. Yeah, cuz we only have we only have one ballot. We only have one ballot ballot for it's a variance for two signs.

The way the staff report reads, I was going to ask that same question. It says they're requesting two variances, I guess. How was it advertised? Was it advertised as two signs? I've got two in my packet that's supposed to be the same there. I have one. I'll get you a couple more. Okay. Is it I only have one. It reads to allow two signs on facade not facing private road or street on the face of the that we have in the packet. That's how it was. That's how it's and it says signs

allow two signs. So, you wouldn't necessarily fill out two applications. It says two variances at the top up here. Did you collect two fees for two variances or did you collected two fees? We um had the um charge for the first variance and then an additional variance um within the same application. Okay. Okay. So, you'll want to call one of your ballots um sign two and one sign one. I can't tell the numbers.

Sign two and sign one. Do west and south. Uh in the south report, she calls them one and two. So, sign one is the south and sign two is the Okay, thank you. Okay, I got one quick question. Just a second. Yep. When did I say that was West? So, obviously the the intent of a sign is to attract people. Mhm.

So, in in in one sense, it doesn't and I'll get to this as another part later, doesn't make sense to me to put a sign where very few people are going to see it. like behind Wellies is a field. Mhm. So why does the sign ordinance care um situation?

You mean why does it care if there's a sign if there's a sign facing not facing a public road? Because typically most sign ordinances are to regulate the amount of signs in public roads, not face not facing away from public roads.

I would say where we are tonight at the BCA, it's basically our job just to tell you what our current ordinance does say and it states that any sign needs to face either a public road or a private road. Um, I would say that the neighboring properties could also be taken into consideration what this does as far as light, glare, distraction, things onto their properties. Um, those could be taken into consideration or be um, but apart from that, that's all I've got.

Now, does the science code specifically say exterior only? I believe she copied the 156.087, the specific one that's um related to the um variance. Wall signs shall be located on the facade of the primary structure facing a public or private street. Yes. And unless you redacted that in any way, that's I can pull up the actual code. Is that just an that's just an I just um is there a section that the variance is from or asking from

is uh my favorite question does the UDO mess with this at all public private

since our initial um since this code was adopted um there has been uh change in upper level government regarding sign regulations. So it is the content of our current code is more or less still in keeping with um good planning practice. However, a lot of the way sign regulations read is totally different in modern sign regulations. So I would um that's why I say our sign regulation is going to be totally overhauled to be in keep more in keeping with um upper level decisions by courts. Uh if I maybe as a point of procedure maybe one of the conditions would be um what whatever happened like if if denied then our moratorum on filing would be waved should local UDO or whatever we want to call it come out that would be more favorable then we can we can allow them to apply under that. I just I think that might be appropriate for us. We're just kind of stuck in that like we have to enforce what's on the books but we know what's coming. um which might apply to the other earlier one as well. Uh we're so close to I mean close is a relative term. I mean six months is close. So I just maybe Rhonda think through that uh if you would because that might be something I would like to propose on certain not everything but when we know it says extravagantly changed it would be appropriate to allow for the waiver of the the what I think it's a one-year

right refiling. Yeah. I I see. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. Yes. Okay. If there no further questions, I'll turn it over to the petitioner. Thanks. Somebody here with Willies Roadhouse.

You swear or affirm under the penalty of perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes. State your name. spell your last name. James Evans EVs. I'll have seven minutes. Go right ahead.

Okay. Uh the reason for the signage or whatever there is, of course, everybody knows we have the wall going up there on the corner and I also have a hair salon next to me too that his which is grandfathered in. His building is in front of my building. So the time you get to his building, you kind of pass my building. So the Willie sign, the number two, I don't have my thing, but it's the number two sign that you guys got on the brick wall.

That signage or whatever there, if you're sitting at Mount Cover Road and 40, that's the only corner of the building of my building that you see. That's it. So that's why the placement of that sign was right there. So it's facing, you know, uh, Mount Comfort Road if you're sitting there heading east to here. So that's why the placement was important to us for that to be there because as you guys well know when you're going down 40, nobody wants to if they pass your place, they're not going to do a U-turn. They're not going to do anything. They just keep going to the next restaurant and that's all it is. But you guys know how hard it is in the restaurant business. Trust me, it's hard. Uh the other sign in the back or whatever. Uh sign one, if you look to the left of sign one, I added onto the building there. And that is the actual entrance to the bar area.

Okay. So that's why that's there. And directly behind me is Wallace U well drilling. So, as far as hurting anybody's eyes or anything else, it's a manufactured business that's run during the day and out they go. I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to ask you again playing devil's advocate here why you were going to put signs in those two locations and that and that. So, because it's perfect that what I just said. If you're sitting at Mount Comfort and heading east or whatever here, that's the only corner of my gray building you see. Okay. What about sign one here though on the back? On the back. I just put it there because of the front door going into the bar. They I mean,

okay, because everybody parks in the back now and that's the main entrance basically to the bar. So, I wanted a Willie sign or whatever up there basically, you know, it's the front of the building basically to me. I know it doesn't face a service road, but that's the front of the building. Faces your parking lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. I I I mean really that's all I had. I mean I was going to put the signs on timers and everything the whole nine yards. I mean if we're open they're they're on but if we're not open they're not on. What's your typical hours of operation?

Uh we open up at 11:00 uh lunchtime of course or whatever Fridays and Saturdays or whatever maybe midnight latest. I mean it's been that way. We close when the last customers leave you know we we close it up through the week. 9:00 we're out of there. And then my parking lot lights that I have on in there. I leave those on until midnight 1:00 for safety factors, you know. But really, that's all I got, guys. Yeah, it was it's just, you know, trying to get my piece of the pie. I'm just um I might have missed that they were lit. Are they in internally lit?

Uh the background or whatever if you see them Yeah. is red and it's not lit up, but the white outline or whatever is lit up. Okay. So, the whole sign's not lit up. It's just the outline. Okay. And Greenfield uh uh lighting company is the guys doing my lighting, which you guys see their logos on all over it. So, a couple questions on the conditions. Would you be open to um having as a condition that there would be timers that would they would only be on during your open hours? Conditions on. Yeah. Okay. I mean, just be a condition. Also, we typically require that the building permits be obtained within 12 months and

um the any permits for the signage. Will there be permits for this? Okay. Permit signage permit. Yeah. So, it be applied for within 12 months. Yep. Okay. Uh then you you you have to um locate it as presented to us and as advertised. So, the signs the location it has to be in line if if approved with what you've presented this evening. Is that acceptable? Okay. is I got a question. So when you say that or whatever, you need the permit. You need me because I got the specific basically measurements of where they're going to be. So do you need where when would they hang the signs and then come back and see you guys or what you got in front of you? Is that

follow this? The last thing what I was talking about earlier is that there's some changes coming to the way that we handle signage in the county. And so, um, if if denied, those were that was if approved. If denied, um, then you can reapply, uh, because we usually have a one one-year time frame where you're limited not to come back, but if we come out with better fa more favorable signage. I don't know if it's going to address this or not, but if it does, we would wave, um, the the limitation on refiling if our if our standards are updated, that that is more favorable. Okay. Just I just wanted that. That's what we were talking about.

Yeah. I just like I said I just asked you know me and my wife where we drove around and down State Road 9 every restaurant down through there's got three sign on three signs three sides of the buildings. Can we talk about the timers and when the timers be allowed to be illuminated? What's the during open hours? Just this they can be on during open hours only. Mhm. I know for the last sign we did I think we said at night time it had to be shut shut off. So uh they requested that. I did not put that in the motion though. Okay.

Uh, you're good. Yeah. Thank you. As anybody here want to speak in opposition to this petition? Did you raise your hand or were you just pushing your glasses up? Okay. All right. Yeah. Unfortunately. All right. Um, any discussion on conditions? And uh we've got our ballots indicated here. Sign one south, sign two west. Any

we Okay. Uh would like to make a motion that should the the variances pass, the lights uh the the um there would be timers where the lighting would be only on during open hours. that the signs would be um installed as advertised and presented in tonight's packet and that the ve uh the permit would be requested within a 12 month uh period. Um but if denied then we would wave the refiling date requirement. If uh updated standards uh design either design standards um are passed which would be more favorable to the applicant.

Okay. I know I gave you like zero time to think about that. Are you okay with I had down. If petition is denied, should a newly adopted UDO unified development ordinance be adopted by the county with more favorable regulations to the petitioner, the petitioner shall be permitted to refile with the BZA without following the one-year waiting requirement. That's it. That is it. That's my motion.

All right. All right. It's been moved and seconded uh that the conditions as stated be applied to both sign variances sign one south sign two west if the variances are approved. All those in favor signify by saying I

oppose same sign. Motion carries. [Applause] [Applause] Mr. President, the one that you are signed is the one you circled.

Yes. Sorry. Had a slip of the pen. Okay. Um for variance number 25-2614 for sign number one which is on the south the variance is granted a vote of 420 sign number two on the west side for variance number 25-2614. It is granted a vote of 321 with Mr. for long denying. All right, you're all you're all set. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks for hanging in there with us tonight. Okay, item number six, Mr. Rusty Fields, special exception for contractor storage yard. We joke about that, but I drive that every day.

So, Fields special exception. The petitioner Rusty Fields is requesting a special exception on the subject property um 5972 North 600 East. Uh the petition the petition would allow a contractor storage yard in a agricultural zoning for wildlife control. Um the such a property is currently surrounded by agricultural zoning. The petitioner submitted a letter of intent and I would allow him to go into detail if he so choose to. Um so this is the site plan the petitioner has um provided um depicting all of the parking and property and and buildings that are located within the site um and the dimensions of that. Although this is not a home occupation, um the petitioner submitted a home occupancy um questionnaire that provided some um information that we believe the board um would find useful. Um the pet positioner has stated that there will be nine full-time employees working through Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Um there will be designated parking um for customers in the front of the building. Um the property uh the property is served on a septic system. Um they responded yes typically two employees on site at a time. There is um no proposed signage. Um and they do have a nuisance and wild um wild animal control permit.

So when looking at this site, uh we decided to um connect with the highway department to get some feedback since this site currently has three entrances and exits. Um, and the feedback we received after consulting with the highway department is that the um, entrance that is marked out in red with X's um, that would be um, that would be required to be removed um, due to not being um, in compliance with highway standards and um, its close proximity to the intersection. So for this position, the staffer is recommending approval with the following conditions. Um the practitioner shall coordinate with the um county health department to ensure that the on-site septic is compliance with um health department standards and regulation. Um that the entrance and exit located closest to the intersection of 600 North and 600 East shall be permanently permanently removed. Um the petitioner shall also coordinate with the highway department to ensure that all remaining entrant and exits comply with their department standards. Uh we also are um adding the condition that any future signage that would be proposed um shall require a permit and a complete um sign permit application review. Um and the last condition is petitioner shall install landscaping on the north parking in order to screen um parking lot from 600 north in accordance to our landscape standard um parking lot perimeter where it states parking lots facing a public rideway or a residential zone/use shall provide one stage read and 10 shrouds per 30 linear square square feet linear foot. Apologize. Okay.

Did you happen to learn anything through this? What? And the petitioner I probably be able to explain it better, but the the nuisance wild animal control permit. Do you know what that is? That would be a question for the petitioner. All right. All right. Any questions for Maria staff? Nope. All right. Thank you. I'll hand it over to the petitioner. Petitioner back there. Okay. Come on up. Hey Maria, can I ask you one question real quick? The home occupation paperwork that's in here. Can you um So that is not a home occupation, but they submitted it with the application and because it had information that I thought would be useful for the board, we added it. Um

so that's not on pending or anything. Okay. Thanks. Yes. You swear affirm under the penalty for perjury that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes, ma'am. Please state your name and spell your last name. Rusty Fields. F I LDS 7 minutes.

So the wild animal control permit we've had for several years. We do things statewide. We do everything from bugs all the way to deer. So we we do a lot of geese. We do a lot of bats. We do lots and lots of different animals. We have actually this is a great thing that we need this because we've grown. It was it was a one truck show quite literally and now I do have nine employees. So, we are going the right direction and I need this to keep me out of divorce court because I have all this stuff going through my house. So, we had to make we just didn't have room. And it just worked out for me that this is actually my parents have had this this area for since 1984, I think. And so, it worked out to where I could afford it, but it was cheap enough we could do it down there and get everything moved in and still have room to grow. The we won't have to add any buildings. There's all kind of storage already there. There's a 40x 100 pole barn. There's an old barn there that just needs a little refurbishing and I think it'll be great. We have done a lot there as far as cleaning up everything. We got all the weeds cut. We got everything mowed, got everything like it is. We didn't really need to do anything except a little bit of parking because we do have some trailers. That's why we had inquired about what exactly what we needed to park trailers. So, we have a place down on the bottom part that where we can actually put the trailers down there because we do, like I said, we haul a lot of things around. So, we do need trailers.

This is not a home occupation, correct? You're not living here. No. Anybody living in the house? Yes. They the house is rented separately. Rented separately. Okay. Because if you see the house is it faces 600 East. Right. Right. Right. Okay. And what what is this the new the word nuisance catches my attention on the BZA. So, well, because by by law in Indiana, we have to have a permit to do out of season. Like for instance, if you have a raccoon in your attic, that's considered a nuisance animal if it's outside of the harvest season. So therefore, we can come and remove that animal. We have the permit to do that. Okay.

And we get other permits that are federal permits like for geese. Geese cause a lot of problems. So we get federal permits to come in and either relocate, euthanize, whatever the case may be. Okay. It's it's a permit to deal with outofse animals. It's all through the DNR. We work a lot with the DNR. We do some federal, but a lot of what we do is with our Indiana DNR. Okay. And the you you house the animals here? No. For Oh, not at all. No. Okay. Unless it would be an overnight thing would be the only thing because we can only keep them 24 hours. Okay. And we usually have rehabers is who we take them to depending on the customer. If they want to relocate it or rehabbed depends on on what we would do. Oh, okay. So, you would remove the animal and then take it back to its habitat and release it. Okay.

It's actually called transllocation because we have to take it outside of its little home range in most cases with the exception of bats, but Oh, okay. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. It's I'm telling you it's a weird little niche thing that that you should look at. Get on our website and look around and you will be surprised at all the things that we do. Intrigued a little bit. And bats are their own special little monsters. Bats are awesome, don't get me wrong, but I don't want them in my house. Okay. So, that's why we work so well with the state because we work to get the bats out of your house, but we don't want to kill them. So, we're going to help you get rid of them, but we're going to help them stay around. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Part of my job requires tree removal, and there's only certain times of year that I can do that. And keep an eye out for that Indiana bat because he's the one. He's the one. Yes. And you can't do anything multiple states.

Yes. You can't do anything till August 15th. That's when the bats become what they call volent, which is a special term that bats get so they can fly. When the young can fly any lapses or uh fines under your permit, you've been you had it for seven years. All cleared it every year. Good to go. Okay. And you'll the animals would be potentially stored up to 24 hours on this site. And is and and so you have this rented out on the adjacency to someone who's living there. So is it disclosed to them? She works for me. Okay. Okay. So she gives obvious disclosure. Okay. That's the young. All right.

There's a puppy that lives at my house. I don't know that it's wild, but it is a nuisance. You're actually trying to get them to get rid of the term nuisance because it it gets pretty a problem. Is it bad marketing? Yeah. Yes. Would you have an objection to uh because this this this occupancy is in the proximity of the would you have an objection to a disclosure um if it's a third party or someone uh you know disclosure of the adjacency of nuis nuisance animal up to 24 hours um holding just disclose it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. And we had already talked about I didn't know until I just saw it here but we had talked about getting rid of that third entrance. I don't know why it was ever there. It literally came right out into the middle of the intersection.

Right. And I do need to know this. It said permanent removal. What does that mean? Does that mean that I have to like dig out the gravel? Do I need to plants? I don't understand what permanent removal. Probably have to talk to the highway department to see what would satisfy them. But I'm assuming it's been there forever. It's probably back to lawn probably. So yeah, probably the removing of the gravel and everything. I just didn't know exactly what the terminology was for permanent. Yeah. Um the disclosure thing, how would that be handled? Is that a title thing or how does that I mean Oh, and the lease in case another tenant. Yeah. So, if she leaves and someone else is going to come in, you're just talking about the house there, not this. Okay. Got it. Just that one. Okay. Nowhere else. And of the of the nine people we had to send the letters to, I've done jobs for six of them. So,

okay. Pretty pretty comfortable with those. All right. Sounds good. Thank you. Do you anticipate that you're going to need some signage at all or The only thing that we may need eventually is is something just to for the location. I'm thinking like maybe on the building might be best. I don't know. We hadn't really thought about that. I'm trying not to get the the cart in front of the horse. Okay. We usually like to see the full just so you don't have to come back and more filing fees. We like to see the whole thing at the same time, but if you haven't kind of figured that out and and the new sign standards might benefit you, so maybe look at those when they come out. Exc. Excellent. And in and did I hear you say that 6 months is not very long, but in that term it would be about what you think is going to you think it's going to be something close to that? Perhaps.

Perhaps. Okay. Yeah. Because it's not something I'm rushing for, but if it's something that would be easier to do all at once, I'm I'm all for it. Absolutely. You don't have customers come to your No. The only time we do that is in deer season because Brad, the gentleman out at Brad the Butcher out there, we do we break down deer for him during deer season. That's the only time that we have people there. Other than that, it's just company vehicles or like we provide vehicles for the tech. So, they come in and they park their personal vehicle there and then they take the company vehicle and it's great because it's quarter of a mile down the road from my house. Yeah. But it gets it out of my house.

You would be surprised how many times people mention divorce court to us. My wife has been very understanding. We'll have to say I I I can't falter there. Yeah. Okay. Other questions? Um I don't think so. Anything else? Anybody? All right. Thanks. Is there anybody here who wants to speak in opposition to this petition? None. All right. Any discussion on um the staff conditions?

Make a motion. Should this um be approved? All staff recommendations would carry except one edit to number two um as per permanently removed as defined by the Department of Transportation. And then adding a new number six that um if any leases are executed uh for the on-site occupancy that disclosure of nuisance animals with a potential 24-hour hold period in adjacent buildings. um be conducted. So, so let me get that one right because I was working on that one. Oh, sure. So, it would be a disclosure in the lease.

Commissioner shall disclose in the lease to any tenant living in the house when animals are being held at the location for more than potential. There's a potential for a nuisance animal housing for a 24-hour period. Up to a 24-hour period. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, because he said he couldn't hold them longer than 24 hours. Okay. Do we do the and we do the normal special exception things run with all we used to have a bunch of those. Are we doing those still? Well,

are those just natural? We just assume they're in there now. So, they they run with the petitioner. Um we have conditions of variances but I don't know if we had standard conditions of we do we had a contractor's storage accessory dwelling I mean is this reserve the right runs with it all those things I I just assume they carry with all of them incorporation by reference from staff

contractor's warehouse and storage yard conditions is, you know, did you happen to talk to them about these at all? These standard conditions, uh, owner shall seek and obtain improvement location permit for the change of use. We're not really doing that here. BCA reserves the right to modify and revoke special exception. We used to say that one all the time, but we don't add that one in anymore for some reason. Special exceptions shall automatically expire after 12 months unless all required county permits relating to the change of use have been approved. Special exception should be limited to and run with the petitioner or an assenee or affiliate of the petitioner in which the petitioner has had has and maintains a controlling interest. Otherwise, the special exception shall not be transferable to any other petitioner person or entity. There's a fifth one that doesn't pertain to this property. Those are all kind of standard things. Did those make sense to you guys? You want to you want to come back up so that we can get so I can hear you?

Do you want me to read those again? Oh, okay. I actually came in and and I was still speaking to Miss Darla before she got out of here and I was explaining to these young ladies that I told them exactly what I wanted to do and then they would tell me what that what I actually needed from you. Okay. So, and like with the contractor stuff, I didn't understand because she said that we wanted I wanted a place to put some trailers. I said we will have trailers there. She said that that's the reason that she recommended that. Okay. That specific one.

Okay. So, if we the the conditions that Miss Willard stated and then if we added to that that the BCA reserves the right to modify or revoke the special exception at a public hearing if it determines that the business constitutes a public nuisance. That's where that nuisance word caught me.

I I assume you're fine with that. That if there's if one of the neighbors comes and complains a number of times, then we can vote to revoke it. The special exception shall automatically expire after 12 months unless all required county permits relating to the change of use have been approved. But there wouldn't be any permits required for this, would there? Um, you may have to get a permit to get rid of that drive, maybe the highway department. So, you might check with them on on that. I'm sure you'll do everything in 12 months, though. That's pretty that's fair. Um, and that's a special exception be limited to and run with the petitioner or your affiliates and Yeah. Okay. So, if you sold the place or different tenant can't do the same thing. Yeah. The only other one we might consider is that you would have the special exception so long as you're carrying the um the permit.

That's really important. Um that you're holding it and you don't have any fines or that's just just us kind of protecting the the area. Given your reputation and what you've been able to build with the business, we wouldn't probably, you know, if you didn't if you did have fines or other things, we might not extend it the same way. So like we were thinking, especially you actually get help whenever you do things right instead of Yes. Thank you.

The special exception shall be limited to and run with the petitioner so long as the petitioner holds the permit, the wildlife nuisance permit, whatever that wording was. You guys have all that. You need us to try and restate everything.

Is that something that needs to go in the conditions? Yes, it's just numbers two, three, and four from the standard special exception. Let me hold that here. And then number four would just be modified that it would run with the petitioner so long as the petitioner hold [Applause] on the special exception typical conditions page. Um the third page which would be under the contractor storage yard we would wave number one go with number two's so one two and we would wave one we would do two three and four

two three and four and then after the second clause and run with the petitioner we would just add so long as the petitioner hold so long as

permit what' you say it it was that uh you have a copy of it if you don't have one in there. Yeah. Wildlife. As long as petitioner holds. It's It said nuisance nuisance wild animal control permit. Does that sound right? Okay. Thank you. Wild animal control permit. And that's from the state, right? Indiana. Okay. Because we do a lot of wildlife management. We try to help you. We come to your place and say, "Look, what is your problem?" So, we really help animals with their people problems because we try to come in and then make it to where you can kind of cohabitate. Interesting. Will without tearing things up or

right giving you things you don't want. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, we we think we got them all. I I've got like about Let's see. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine conditions. That sound right? Can we read them? Where you come from? Yeah. The original five plus the six, which is the lease, plus the three from our standard. We're getting rid of the driveway is the main one, right? Because the highway department wanted that out. I had an amendment to that as number two. That one modified.

Okay. And I would like to make sure that we go on the record and state that these young ladies were very helpful when it came time to try to figure all this out because I had no clue. I had no idea what I needed to do. Good to hear. Thank you. Yes, we think they're pretty great, too. Yes. That should round out my motion. I think that that's it. All right. Jason took the easy job. All right. Moved and seconded that should this special exception be approved to be subject to the nine stated conditions. All those in favor signify by saying I. I oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. All right, we'll vote. You can stand there if you want or you can sit down. Take it easy. You are the boss.

Either way, I don't whatever you want to do. I'll have a seat.

That sounds good to me. [Applause] So much damn paper.

Okay. The special exception in case number 25-2617 is granted with a vote of 420. All right. Thanks. Just check with them. Highway department and then you should be all set. Right. Thank you. Thanks for sticking around. Yeah, we didn't plan it. all the county resources tonight. So, one thing I wanted to bring up back to that Judy, you talked about the ease,

you know, not going higher than the ease of the house. I think we ought to change that. Not necessarily ease, but the roof line, top of the roof line. Yeah. Reason being because like I've got a situation if I wanted to build a barn, I'm I know I'm going to want 10 foot doors than a regular 8 foot door. So I get I've got something that's taller I could put in there the ease that wouldn't really mow standard for peak as well. I don't know that I would say that for all accessory buildings, but in that case such a small building, small lot, small, everything was so tight. I just wanted to make sure it didn't tower over. Well, and I would say that for anything that's not a of garage size. Yeah.

Would be my argument that I would make. That's a good point that we ought to standard height. Yeah. Requirements that we have to look at and approve. If they are taller than our standards, they would require to get a variance, which we've done in the past at uh the airplane gentleman. Airplane guy. Yeah. Airplane guy. But yeah, like in this situation, what if he wanted 10 foot doors? Copy of what that does say anything about this is a copy you can have. Okay. Yeah, this is I'd put it in the file. Put it in the file. You guys want the file? Yeah, just it could go in the file.

That's perfect. But like in that but in this case, you put a tall door in, you can shorten your roof line to make sure you don't go taller than the house. Mhm. Yeah. All right, we're going to continue, guys. So, you want to step outside? Thank you. All right, so that are that's all of our hearing items this evening. So, other business, new agenda format and procedures update. I will also make a note that there is another thing that we just um didn't print an updated agenda. There is another item under new um other business. So once I'm done with my update, I'll hand it up to Kayla so she can

um so I just wanted to provide a little update since we um you saw something a little different this month for the um agendas and kind of just want to give you a quick little um overview and update. So, after working with um Rhonda and Don, we've um decided on a new procedure how we're going to handle our agendas. Um so, this month you saw a preliminary agenda, although we didn't do it this month, but moving forward, what those agendas will um have are the petition and the if they have a site plan, I have those linked in. Um so, the filing deadline are the Friday, last Friday of each month. So, the week following, we'll be working on scanning everything in and drafting that preliminary agenda. And once we complete that, we'll send that over to you. Um, and then as we are working through our staff reports, we'll start finalizing that agenda. And once we have all those staff reports completed, and if we receive any letters of remmons or support, we'll also add that um, and send that over to you. Um, and even after we have that finalized agenda posted and sent out, if we continue receiving any letters or remmonsters or support, um, if they made the submission deadline, you will be receiving updates as we are getting them. And also, we'll update the agenda with those as well.

That's great. Uh, just a maybe a recommendation, could we put the case number on there as well? Okay, that would be um that'd be helpful. And then just while we're on agendas, um would it be possible to incorporate some of our standard um which you recommend the standard conditions from our variance and special exception? That would be um so we don't forget that. I think that's um we've we've slipped away from that over the month several well maybe the past year or so, but it is good to add those in. A lot of them are kind of go without saying I guess, but they're good to have them on on the record. So,

and would it be possible on the cover sheet to show sort of a smaller version of the county even exactly where we're we're we're talking about and I know we can I know we know but there's just especially when have a full agenda that's a real zoomed in which is nice to see um but maybe just also in the same page where it's zoomed out and then um maybe some labeling of the colors because if there's dissimilar colors and we're looking at um you know buffering or anything like that it's just some sometimes good to know what the zones we're looking at if we have not memorized it like I haven't. Yeah. See, I'm kind of the opposite of you. I'd rather not have the colors but labels. Hey, this area is whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Whatever. Okay. All right. Yeah, it looks good. I guess um yeah, this new format looks really really nice. I if you could on the likees and the special ballots, could you just a shorthand of what number? Yeah. Um, so this month we were like kind of trying to pick up where Darla left off. So um, she had mentioned that to us, but um, this is all new to me and Don, so um, we'll have that for next month. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because I just because I I sometimes I get all my papers out of order and then I'm not sure quickly which ones are which and then what variance we're voting for for what.

Like Darla when she would put the she would handwritten this variance number one for blah blah blah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of nice because you don't have to sit there and try and what's what. Yep. Um Yeah. Yeah. And Rhonda said she used this uh at a conference as an example. And the only thing that I I don't like about it is that I'm the only person here that has my middle name listed, which makes it feel like my mom's yelling at me when I look at it, but that's okay. So, it looks great. Um

I didn't even know that was on. It just popped into my head as I was looking at this. Um, we we sounds like we're getting, you know, iPhones listen to you and they give you ads and stuff, but I've never like talked about the board of commissioners meeting during a meeting and then get a text from the president of the board of commissioners that says it's on the agenda. That was weird. Did you tell him? Did you text him? That was kind of creepy. But anyways, we are going to get a new member next month. Um, Evan was our vice president, so we may need to do an election next month. So, I was going to bring that up as well because don't have one now. Yeah. So,

and we and I don't know that the new member would want to do it, but maybe he does. And so, you know, who knows? Maybe he's versed. We'll see. Kayla's going to meet with him or her, whoever it is. Yeah, them. say them. So, all right. Next item,

final thing on our agenda tonight, which is a new item, is uh amending the rules. We would like to introduce an amendment to our BCA rules and procedures that would add a section allowing for alternate members. Um, so this is allowed in Indiana state code and basically states that um for each member, each of our five members, the same appointing body that appointed you can appoint an alternate member that would step in in case you were not able to attend or if you have a conflict.

Yes. Or if you have a conflict. So double protection on both sides. um that might be challenging, but um at any rate, we would love to put this in place to hopefully make it easier for us to have full boards every month. So, not a scheduling conflict, a disclosure conflict. It can be either one. Okay, great. Thank you. Um, good. Here's the kicker, and I I'm thinking about maybe seeing if we could pursue this in state legislation. It would be nice if there could be like one alternate that just came to the meetings and then they could listen and learn and we'd probably have to pay them but they could fill in if there was ever a conflict

or they could just be this floater. Um the way the statute reads now is every appointing body has to have their own alternate. So, one for each, you know, plan commission would have to have an alternate or board of commissioners would have to have an alternate um for each appointing body. So, there's got to be like your backup person. Each member has their backup,

which I can see that I can see that in an argument case cuz for like the town of Shirley, which is my representation, or Spring Lake, they may not see or agree with something that the commissioners or plan commission does. So, are you saying that it might be good to have your own backup because they'd come from Shirley? Yes. Yeah, I I could see that point, too. The Yeah, Kayla and I were talking about it a little bit and it it gets a little tricky because

each position is got has such a specific requirement, you know, and that's why it's hard to find people to sit on the board. So, finding a second person that's an alternate is going to be a little tricky, but worth the effort to search. So, I'm going definitely let our town council president know, right? And then if you if you had to miss, then you could call your backup and say, "Hey, fill in for me." Then we'd have to be where we were.

So, we would we would need to um have them approved by appointing body exotically member and a backup. did Kayla found Hamilton County and they do that. So they two they have they're missing two alternates but at least three of the people have alternates. And so just just a question um if it's if it's say like a substantial number of alternates can a continuence be requested or we wouldn't grant that? You know what I mean? You see what I'm

change the rules if you thought so what I did put in here though I didn't think that let's say Mike's alternate came that night. I think that person shouldn't have to serve as chair like so the I did add wording that said the alternate serve as the chair or vice chair that would we'd hand that over to the vice chair in that case or someone who's a regular member temporary yeah tempor

what about those times where here. I mean, in a perfect world, the alternates would just come and attend anyway, right? You know, but then you'd have, like you said, you have now they can watch online. That's true. Or read the minutes. Incredibly effective, right? Keep up on things. Yeah. it'd be included in our normal distributions. Excellent.

Um, so if you wanted to change anything tonight in what's drafted, I you'll notice the changes are on page three of the rules. And I did I am changing a code site that got changed in state statute. So you'll see that at the top just a code reference, but down the part to look at is number six. If there's any changes that you would like to propose to that, we could do that tonight. We have to wait 30 days before the proposed rules are adopted. Couldn't do that until next meeting to make that official, but then we'd also still have to wait on the appointing bodies to appoint their alternate. So,

and do we need to actively say that they contribute to quorum? because there's some really weird things about the definition of quorum and that how that's changed with um virtual attendance. Yeah. So should the language in six say that that they have or or does the fact that we say that they have all duties assume that they're contributing to quorum appropriately? Um so are you thinking of this example where let's say the regular member couldn't be here, but the alternate wanted to participate electronically

or just be here. I mean, the alternates alternate I don't know that we need to say it, but it's they fill in the shoes of Okay, that's just it for all purposes, cororum, everything, right? It's just that it carves it. It's weirdly carves it out differently. Uh,

right. So with the electronic meeting policy, we can only have 50% of the members attend virtually. And then there's some there's a limitation on how many consecutive times you can participate electronically. And then there are other reasons like veteran or there it really there's a lot of rules to that. So whenever we we think there might be someone to participate electronically, we better just check with me and let me reread everything and make sure we don't have any limit. I was wanting to I didn't get around to it, but you had back when we kind of reorganized the planning commission, you put together all of the various requirements and I was thinking that there there was a requirement that so like for position three and four, we were really I was thinking that Wendell and Byron were not eligible for those for some reason and that's why we had the whole thing with Byron was he had to either serve on the plan commission or the BZA but he couldn't serve on both. I just wanted

I think it was the technical committee and flat. Thank you. Oh maybe that's what it was he chose. So he you can't be on all those and so that's the one he wanted to do. Okay. And he he calls like like and he's very good at at it. So I mean I I talked to him like that's what he wants but I think he's he's ask him again but a good alternate here. I don't know does that if he's a decision maker on plat does that conflict him here? I kind of just put him down as I knew there were a limited number of people who could serve as the plan commission representatives as an alternate. So, I simply put down every name that I thought might be. But, of course, if if um if there is a reason that he shouldn't be considered for an alternate, then

I think the only thing would be the conflict of him having um planning commission and BZA and Platt. I mean, that's a three layer his experience would qualified to do that. Um but I don't know if that that is just that's um a lot. I do remember something about that, but I can't remember exactly what it was. I don't remember. So I know I have to go back and look somewhere there's a conflict. Okay. I never got around to chasing that down in my because that was two years ago now we did all that. It was detailed detailed at the time. It was

okay. So I guess the only action we need tonight is uh any direct any changes and then we have to sit on it for 30 days. adopted and then it's a I think just acknowledge that it's been introduced and unless you could make changes tonight if you had anything you want to change then we'll once it's introduced and we'll wait 30 days and adopt it at the next all right so I don't know do we need a motion for that or do you just want um this general consensus that we are acknowledging it as it is and we'll act on it in 30 days Okay. All right. General consensus. All those in favor? I

I Okay. Opposed. All right. Sounds good. All right. That everything I will say. Um Oh,

I just had one other thing. I I kind of feel bad about the signage waiver for the second and not the first. for the for the reapplication time frame. I don't know how to fix it going forward proper notice. They're saying like if the UD the moratorum on the limit if it's more favorable

back then they're probably going to get their sign built the way so probably wouldn't be a need for it true you know probably going to go out and build their sign in a few months that will comply with current zoning Okay. Plus one you I guess you could argue that the one was covered underneath the uh overlay and the other isn't true.

Now, as we mentioned earlier, I don't know if we do want to handle it or not, but our u excited lady that we had this evening uh perhaps we as recommended by council. Um, law enforcement, some sort of a talk about um are we talking about the little the service that happened earlier? Recess. Yes. Okay.

Um, so I had to give a statement to the officers. um they took my name and information and um we did um charge um trespassing and so she's no longer allowed on the premises and if she returns um she will um be charged with trespassing. That's that term you used to trespass a person, right? That's to say that the um she's no longer allowed and then if she's then she would be charged formally with trespassing. So, we'll get all that confirmed after the fact. Yeah, let's define here. We'll get all that straight.

I think that she has become a recent voice, I guess, and she's been at the commissioners and council and stuff and doing similar things. This was her most aggressive though, I think. So, um yeah, I I don't fully understand her points. I might have to ask for some clarification on some of that because I've read some of her postings and things and I don't fully understand what she's talking about, but we might I I don't know that there's much to it, but maybe you know more about it. So, um so if we had I guess is the question, should we have an officer in attendance? And it might be that maybe that's a countywide thing for all of these types of meetings. Maybe plan commission, BCA, commissioners council maybe should have somebody all the time. So it's just another budget line item, right? So

I mean I was I was impressed how quickly they showed up though. That was pretty good. Pretty good response time. All right. What sort of I guess um like security for the courthouse. They have somebody over at the courthouse during business. I wonder if it would be somebody at our meetings maybe.

All right. I guess my my last thing, this email that came um I think I sent it to you guys from Ethan Lawson. It still just kind of bugs me a little bit. Um Mr. Judy reached out to Ethan Lawson which confused me about and had stated that he had been here three consecutive months. Um so I checked back with Mr. Lawson and I said, "Did he in fact say that?" Because you confirmed that he had he was on time. Basically, everything was running on time. And Mr. Lawson stated back to me that Mr. Judy stated that he had gone before the body three consecutive monthly meetings where a lack of quorum had been an issue. And then I asked that tonight. He stated under oath that that wasn't the case. So, not I mean, obviously all hearsay, it all happened on the phone, but it just still kind of bothers me. So, I just kind of wanted to make sure that this email that I forwarded to

Yeah. And that's why we also added that timeline on on the staff report because of that that situation. So, on our records, those are the dates of everything that um has occurred. Yeah, we actually got them in earlier because they would have been pushed. Yeah. It just kind of

bugged me that I I kind of feel like that there was some lack of honesty there that made this planning department look like they weren't doing their jobs and it's just been bugging me in front of our elected officials because that email was copied to it was from Ethan to Bill Spalding, Gary McDaniel, and Scott Waldridge. And so it just kind of I don't know sometimes our agenda is full and they get bumped to the next month just because they were going to be but two or three days he was bumped he had a withdrawal he was bumped to July so this would have been his first meeting. Yeah it he was

so he actually got moved up so so I didn't none of us got that email. Uh Bill Spalding forwarded it to me. Okay. So, I just checked with um the only reason why I asked I've seen I've gotten a number of emails from him because obviously I live in his district and I've always just deleted them. I want to make sure I didn't accidentally delete that one. Yeah. I mean, Ethan, I I'm guessing, you know, it could have been still some miscommunication there that, you know, that because there were people here that had been bumped about three months. And so I that's why I reconfirmed, but it just for whatever reason it just was kind of

the only interpretation might be that considering in front of the board is us, but also in front of the staff and technically it was a three-month time. Well, he said three consecutive months where there was not a quorum. That's what he said. Yeah, that's what Ethan told me. So I Yeah, it just it neither here nor there. The right decision was probably made in the end, but it was just bothersome that they were trying to find us through the kind of making the staff out to not have taken good care of him and that kind of was bothering me. Been out of our way to help them get onto next agenda instead of being pushed to July. And we don't need to set a special exception for this coming week. We're okay.

No, I think we're good, right? We got everything. That was just in case you weren't able to make it. And yeah, feel free. So I'll make a motion we adjourn. Second. Actually adjourn this time. Second. All right. All those in favor signify by saying I I great delivery of all the ballots. You did a second for the adjournment. Correct. I'm gonna go turn off the recording real quick and

Jason and Mike. That sounds like a morning show. I know. I was going to ask that wildlife guy if he ever got involved with chickens. Why didn't you?