Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Tuesday, June 26, 2025. Would you please stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands nationy?

Madam chairperson. Yes. Uh, I just want to advise the board members that uh Karen Janiga is filling in for uh uh Shannon Morris Smith as uh recording secretary for tonight. Okay. So, when we make a motion, would you like us to state our name? She's going to She knows the roll call. Okay. I said when we make a motion, instead of listening to our voice, would you like to say have us state our name? I everybody. Okay. All right. All right. Could we have a roll call then? Brock here. Hill here. Hutton here. Hassael here. Faulner

here. Five. Yes. All right. We have the minutes for July 29th. What the pleasure of the board? I'll make that motion to accept the minutes. Second. We have a motion and a second. We have a roll call vote. Hustle. Yes. Bill. Yes. Yes. Rock. Yes. Yes.

All right. No old business come to us tonight. So, we'll move into new business. First item is Z-25-09 petition of 7227 Amherst LLC for conditional use regarding title section 7.11 PNS 1 and title section 7.10 10 parents 8 to allow a primary residence occupancy on the first floor of a building located at 6736 Columbia Avenue in a C1 local commercial district in the city of Hammond. The next item is related. So we will listen to presentations for both of them together and we'll have a separate vote. Next item is Lee-25-10 petition of 2720 227227 Amherst LLC for developmental variance regarding title section 7.3 and title section 7.31 PNS BNS 4 to allow a reduction in the minimum width of a lot and area required for a lot located at 6736 Columbia Avenue and a C1 local commercial district in the city of Hammond. Have all notification requirements been met?

Um the notification requirements have been okay madam chairperson. Yes. I do want to make a technical correction on C2510. That is title section SE. It's supposed to be title section 7.30. Okay. Let me note that in the minutes, please. Right. Do we have a petitioner before us? And we'll have him come and state his name. Rick Dawson. Shall I go ahead? Give your address, too. Oh, 9812 Twin Creek Boulevard, Monster, Indiana. Okay, go ahead.

All right. Uh, members of the board, again, my name is Rick Dawson. This is uh regarding a property at 6736 Columbia Avenue. And our petition is is in a way related to the property next door, 6730 Columbia, and you may know that as the Hammond Salvage building until it went out of business recently. Um a little background those two properties the single family house on 6736 that we are uh before you today about and 6730 which is a larger commercial building. They are built on two equally sized lots up until recently and that resulted in the lot line intersecting somewhere in the middle of the commercial building. So what we're seeking to do is uh gain approval for conditional residential occupancy of the single family house and that is how has always been used and uh move the lot line over so that it contains only the house and then only the commercial building will be on another lot and we we have taken steps so far to do that. uh we have uh uh deed parts of the property over so that now the commercial building is on one larger lot and the single family is on one smaller lot. Now the first petition is for conditional residential use on the first floor in a commercial district. Um, this property has only been used as a uh this single family house has only been used as a residential uh property for as long as anyone can remember. Um, steps that we've taken to uh induce the board to allow us this conditional use. We have demolished a

very large dilapitated garage that connected the house to another alley building to create a backyard for the property. Um, and we've created a alley access garage for the property. Uh, and uh it if I'll just I'll just cover the conditional use for the moment since that is the first item. um going through the um the several criteria for for granting of that. Um because it's always been used as a residential property and that's what we're asking it to be continue to be able to use for um a lot of these items should not be a concern. Um injurious to public health and safety, etc. Uh I would submit to you that a single family home is the least likely use of a property uh to result in damage to public health safety morals. Um, I explained how we had created a garage parking that hadn't formally been there that will result in the property being used for residential use to actually uh reduce the parking and other um uh burdens on the city that that it once had as it only had street parking before. Um, and the adjacent area will not be affected in any noticeable way because again, we're just asking for the former residential use of the property to continue. And other items on the criteria, adverse impact on environmental and natural resources. Uh, again, there's there's no indication that allowing this to be continued to use residentially would cause that. um adverse effect on historical, architectural, cultural resources. Again, just allowing it to remain as

it's been used for at least 25 years would not affect that. Um comprehensive city zoning plan. To our knowledge, there's no zoning plan in the area that this would interfere with. um in compliance with applicable provisions established elsewhere in the zoning ordinance. Uh the developmental v variance is our next petition. So other than that um I I don't see any concern there. So I'll get into the developmental variance aspects next. Would you like me to do that next or shall we? Um

actually I want I want to jump in. Um, just for clarity of the board, the reason it's a conditional use to do a residential is because the property is zoned C1 local commercial and residential is typically only allowed on the second floor of a building. And since this parcel is being separated or this property is being separated from the commercial building, um this is where the residential use is now a primary use on the property as opposed to when it was combined. Previously, it was an accessory use. And so that is really what's triggering the the conditional use request is in order to um uh you know correct the the the the way the zoning ordinance is interpreted for um permitted uses and assess in conditional uses. Um, and it also addresses um the fact that now that he's separating it, it does kind of create some um, shall we say, questionable non-conforming issues when it comes to the the use of the property. So that's really what the premise of his his petition is is to um allow the residential use to be the primary use on the fir you know talking about on the first floor but the also the prim primary use of the property being residential.

Was the primary use of the property people who own the salvage company or was it separate people? In other words, was the thing not conforming to begin with? The ownership is the same correct for between the house and the and the former salvage building. It was when we purchased it. Yes. When you purchased it. Okay. So, um this has other than the fact that he separated the residence from that. There's this conditional use has no relevance to the commercial building because it is a permitted commercial building in a C1 district. So, what we're talking about is specifically the residential building. Okay.

Which was a commercial building and we're changing it to a residential building. No, it was always a residential building, but it's in a commercial zoning district. Okay. Okay. Um and so I would ask that the board would approve our petition for conditional use on the first story in the C1 district uh based on um everything we've heard. And if there's any questions, I'd be happy to I'd be happy to answer them. Okay. Would you prefer that we take questions from the board now and have public discussion now or present the second one at the same time now?

Well, maybe I should present the second one because I might answer some questions that you might have as of right now once we we go through that. So the the the second petition before you today is a developmental variance, a petition for developmental variance. Um by dividing the property the way I described where it would keep, excuse me, where it would keep the house separate and the commercial building separate, it does result in the the new lot not meeting current uh area requirements in a couple respects. Um, in the first respect, it creates no sideyard on the north side of the property because the the lot line that we're asking you to approve would would would not it it it would cut off some of the commercial building if we made it 8 ft over to have the sideyard requirement. So, it is going to run right along the side of the single family property. Um, the way that we have tried to uh ameliate the any negative effects of that is that we've created an 8-foot easement along the side of the house where there is no sideyard. And that will allow uh any future owners of this property to access that for maintenance of their of their roof, their gutters, their there's a hose on the side of the house, they'll be able to get to that. Um there was a couple other issues as well. We had the buildings actually join up right on the property line. One one the commercial building and the garage of the single family house have a party wall and the the lot line runs directly through that. We've already prepared and record a party wall agreement to uh so that any future purchases of either

property will be aware that uh each side is responsible for maintenance of their own side and and it's a several pages uh of terms so that everyone can know what they're getting into when they purchase either side of the property. And then the third item that we've done is we have filed a driveway access agreement because in the alley uh somebody entering the commercial building may cross over uh like a 50 square foot part of the house's property. So with Mr. Poland's uh suggestions, we've been able to do everything we can to uh uh accomplish what the current C1 zoning requirements are are trying to accomplish, even though we can't. Um the result is we still have a lot that is wider and has a larger area than any of the other houses that are on the same side of the street in the C1 zoning. Um, the lot we propose to you today is going to be um I I had it here in the uh cover letter that I sent. It's going to be significantly I think 3 ft larger than any of the other lots on the street. Um, so we've done everything we can. We're kind of constrained by the buildings that are on the site from making it uh in compliance with today's uh ordinance. And again, I'll just go over the three criteria. They're similar to those of the conditional use. Um in not injurious to public health, safety, morals, and general welfare welfare. Um again, this is trying this is keeping a a house that's always been used as a residential property as a residential property. and uh uh and this is the only way we're able to accomplish it with the layout uh

use and the value uh adjacent to the property not negatively affected. I would argue that the improvements we've done to the property actually have positively affected the the surrounding area because there is not uh a rundown uh accessory building between the house and the garage and the strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance would result in practical difficulties. Well, that is absolutely the case. Um if if we applied strict uh zoning ordinance to this, it would have to result in part of the commercial building being on the residential property. And so and so that wouldn't work. So uh once again, I I ask that the board grant our petition for developmental variance and and I'm happy to answer questions about either petition. board members have any questions at this time?

No, I don't. Yes, I do have some questions. Okay, Mr. Hutton microphone. [Music] I do have some questions. Should I wait till after the staff report or should I ask the questions now? Thank you very much. I I guess I'm a little confused. I didn't see a survey in the packet. Was there one? I just overlooked. Um, there was that was supposed to have been attached in the packet. What was on top that thing? I see it. Thank you.

I I guess my one of my questions is this property. I appreciate the subdivision or the separation between the residential and the uh and the commercial and maybe this answers my question. It does. Just for the record, what was the question? For the record, I wanted to know if there was a second floor to this building. Yes, there is. There is. It's a single family does not have a second floor. This has one. It's not a second floor. It's it's like the it's a one and a half story building. It's it's a right is No, there's no upstairs of the single family house.

I stand correct. Then my my other question was was there going to end up to be a mixeduse occupancy of any of these buildings that we're going to be talking about between residential and commercial? Yes. No. Not to no dealing with the house. Not good. Thank you very much. He I mean just again for the record his intention is to allow the house to be used as a house. All of the conditional use and all this stuff is building towards that. Got it. I have it. Thank you sir.

And and most importantly it it removes the non-conforming status of it to become conforming. Therefore it you know there won't be any problems with financing. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? I have none. Okay. And if I may, just for the record, did you want to do yours question now or would you prefer to wait till enter some information into the record? Okay.

Okay. Um just for the record, I'm just trying to I think it goes back to the presentation. The um reduction is going from a 40 foot width to a 35.03 foot width. The square footage is going from 5,000 square ft to 4378.75 square ft. And of the there there are two other houses in this block that are used at for residential purposes. There's a third house that is used for some kind of a quasi commercial use. So this is an efficence comment to what's happening in this particular block but it's but right now we are are reviewing this particular house.

Thank you.

We will open this to public comments. Is there anyone out there that would like to speak for or against any questions in regard to both of these? You you can sit down. Okay. Thank you.

Anyone in the public? Anyone in the public? Hearing none. We um online what? Ask if there's anybody online. Pardon? Ask if there's anyone online who wish to speak in public hearing. Oh, I didn't see anybody online. There are four people. Okay, people online like to speak. May I ask where they are?

I got a question. Okay. Please identify your name and your address, please. Daniel Marshall, 4646 Henry Street, Hammond, Indiana. Okay, go ahead.

I listened to him. He said something about the property line button against each other, but each each um building will be responsible for the maintenance. How close is that? And what if it was my house and they buted up so close that anybody I was having to do work on my house couldn't access it because it was too close.

Um let's see if there's any He's asking about how close the property line is from the other building, the salvage building. There anyone else in the public online that would like to speak? Anyone else? Anyone else? All right, I think we can close public comments now. And would you like to address his concerns? Yeah, sir. It uh it seemed to me like your question was how can you uh ever do any maintenance on your on on your property supposing you're the single family property owner because of the tight property line. Is that correct?

That's correct. um that as I mentioned earlier, we have created an 8-oot easement, which is a if you're not familiar with an easement, that is a a right to enter upon another's land, uh which will allow the owner of that single family house 8T to the north side of their house where that tight property line is. uh the right to enter that at any time to perform maintenance or any other uh you know any other activity regarding their house where they would need close access.

Okay. My thing is you know being in construction myself if you having a roof replaced or brick work done or eight feet is not a lot. And then you know now you talking about me now now if it was my property that was next to the property you talking about now I got to worry about damaging the neighbor's property by getting my properties fixed. I think that's too close. I I don't think that should go. I really don't. It's too close.

The the property on the other side of the the the area you're discussing is not actually there's there's no structure there. It's a large gravel lot where we're giving this easement. So, there's plenty of room to do any any maintenance in there. And there the the commercial property is probably 20 or 25 ft north of the single family property. Well, I hope so for the people who own that property when you decide to build next to them because I've dealt with that before. It's not once this is once this is all said and done then person who was there first is stuck and that's not fair in my opinion.

That's it. Okay. All right. Thank you for your comments and your concerns. I board members have any questions?

I don't. We will then take as far as D-25-09 the petition for the allowing the primary residential occupancy on the first floor of a building located at 6736 Columbia Avenue in a C1 local commercial district regarding a conditional use. Are you going to ask for a staff report right now? I am. Okay.

That's okay, Tom. Um, I'm going to ask again. We are all Any questions? We all understand what this petition's about. Okay. All right. Staff has reviewed the petitioner's proposal and recommends that the board grant the conditional use. Should the board feel the petitioner has met the standard subject to the approval of the following case of Z2510.

Okay. We have some proposed bindings of facts that have been presented by the staff. Any questions, comments, changes, additions that the board members would like to make? I don't. I don't. Sorry. Okay. Sorry. I don't. Thank you.

Do we have a motion to adopt the staff report and the proposed findings of fact as presented as well as Mr. Dawson's very thorough comments on his findings of fact into the record.

Thank you. Do we have a second? I'll second. We have a motion and a second. So, we have a roll call vote. Yes. Bill, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Five. Yes. Okay. Do we have a motion to approve or de deny the developmental varium the conditional use?

I'll second. We have a motion and a second to approve the conditional use for Z-25-09. [Music] We have a roll call vote. Yes. Bill, yes. Faulner, yes. Rock, yes. Yes. Yes.

Okay. All right. We will move to the developmental variance for 5736. Any questions or comments from the board members at this time? Oh, no. I could we have the staff report.

Staff has reduc reviewed the petitioner's request. Recommends that the BZA grant the developmental variance should the board feel the petitioner has met the standards subject to the following conditions. One, approval of Z2509, which has been done. And number two, recording of the sideyard access easement, the ingress egress easement for the accessory structures, and the common wall easement for the accessory structures. And the petitioner has indicated that those have been recorded.

The staff has presented proposed findings of facts. Any questions, comments, changes, revisions? No. All right. Could we have a motion to adopt the staff report and the proposed findings of fact that from the staff and from Mr. Dawson into the record? I'll make that motion. Second. We have a motion and a second. Could we have a roll call vote? Yes. Bill, yes. Bner, yes. Brock, yes. Yes.

Okay. Do we have a motion in regard to the developmental variance for Z25-10? I'll make that to approve it. Yes. Okay. We have a motion to approve developmental varian. Do we have a second? I'll second. Do we have a roll call vote? Yes. I'm sorry. Bill, yes. Faulner, yes. Rock, yes. Yes.

All right. Good luck. All right. The next item on the agenda is Z-25-11 petition of R2M Properties Investment Group LLC for developmental variance regarding title section 3.30 30 forens a to allow a reduction in the minimum width and lot area requirement to build a single family h home located at 4626 Johnson Avenue in a R1 single family residential district in the city of Hammond. Have all notification requirements been met?

No, the notification requirements have not been met. Right. Okay. Uh so therefore we're in a situation that uh we are unable to proceed with this case tonight and that this the staff is requesting that this is uh table to the next meeting and we will um work with the petitioner to make sure that the notification requirements are complied with. Um, have they been sent out already that your knowledge or No, they have not been sent out at all. Any there? They're okay. Would you repeat?

Have any of them been sent out as far as notification required? They notifications were sent out by first class mail. They were not sent out by certified mail as required. We have no proof or documentation that they were sent out at what the appropriate time was. and if therefore it's not compliance with our stated requirements in our procedural manuals. So as we table this we would want then to make sure new notification requirements be sent. Yeah. Since he has faulty notification, he has to do it all over again correctly. All right. That's what the table would mean. Yes. Okay. Everybody understand? Yes.

And do we have a motion to table D-25-11 to our next meeting? which would be sometime in September. September what? 30th, I believe. 30th. 30th. Yeah. September 30th. September 30th. I'll make that motion to table. We have a motion. A second. Roll call vote. Yes. Hell, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Is the petitioner here? I can speak on behalf of that on the petition.

Um, well, we're tableabling it, so we really can't hear anything tonight. The issue is that I sent out the letters, but I emailed them to ask them if I could verify that because

Okay. Um, Mr. Dawkins. Um, it's very hard for us to hear anything from the audience because of not being at a microphone and not recording it. Secondly, Madame Chairperson, are are you going to allow him to come to the microphone and speak or we since the case has been tabled, I think that would be irregular. And um our attorney, would you like to jump in on whether or not we can or cannot hear from the petitioner at this point?

The matter's been tabled. It would be inappropriate to hear anything further on this. The the ruling has been made already. Petitioner, I would suggest you meet with the BA people tomorrow with any of your questions or concerns. You mean the You mean the staff? With the staff.

Thank you. All right, we will move to Z-25-12 petition of Carlos M. Salgado for developmental variance regarding title section 33 3.3 for B to allow a reduction in both the minimum lot size and the minimum lot width requirements for existing two-unit residential building located at 664 Jackson Avenue in R1U urban single family residential district in the city of Hammond. Have all notification requirements been met on this one? The notification requirements have been met.

All right. Do we have anybody the petitioner here for Z-25-12? As you come up, state your name and your address, please. Hello, my name is Carlos M. Salgado of uh 6604 Jackson Avenue. Can you sign in, please? This one. It's right there.

I think they moved it here. Thank you.

I am the petitioner, owner, and occupant of the subject uh parcel. Uh I request the developmental variance from uh zoning ordinance 8 uh 8514 title 3 section 3.3B to reduce the minimum lot width from 50 ft to 40 ft and to reduce the minimum lot size from 6,250 ft to 5,000 square ft for a two family uh attached dwelling. Uh what I ask from the board is nothing unusual for the character of the neighborhood. Uh historically speaking, uh my home was uh already uh a two unit.

Uh it was in uh uh it was the sorry it was uh grocery store. Hm. You going to say grocery store or something? Oh, yeah. Sorry. It was originally a grocery store. The first uh you know, yeah, the Stra Ventel of uh you know the of Nick Vantel, you know, Stra the latter name of that. I'm explaining it terribly. Um Well, you don't think of grocery stores that size either. No. Humble beginnings. Yes.

Yes. And uh so uh so yes, so I'm all I'm asking for is uh to legally have it as a two unit because right now is a single family home. Um I am currently the inhabitant uh of the front part of the building, let's call that. And uh I have my wish is to have the the rear unit uh be its own separate u you know for the purpose of a rental. Um and uh you know uh I have uh and uh and yeah there's a when you compare it to like the lots uh adjacent to the property uh there are there are seven lots uh of the 29 parcels on the 66 600 block of Jackson Avenue that do not meet already the the minimum lot width and and requirement size on uh directly uh let me think directly east of my property on the other side of uh Jackson Avenue there's a another parcel another corner building that uh that is also a that is already a two unit uh that uh does not meet the the the lot width size and lot requirements and uh you know it's just it would be nice to add uh one more uh Hammond resident to the neighborhood you know so comments questions concerns anyone

um for the record um there is um there's an existing garage on the property and what is happening to that garage and how are you addressing the parking requirements? uh given uh the staff reports suggestion for uh demolition and uh and uh for the placement of three off streetet parking spots. Uh we are currently in the process of uh contracting uh demolition people and uh you know and uh and uh trying to go for the proper permanence for that. Okay. And the current garage is a twocar or onecar garage? It is a onecar garage. Okay.

Do we have a a survey again? Do we have a survey of the property showing this how this parking is going to be arranged? No, we just have a floor plan. A floor plan. Okay. But it should be.

Is there something in particular you're trying to address with the survey? I just wanted to be sure it would offput. That's all.

Thank you. Right. Anything else you'd like to say? No. No. Not at this time. Okay, excuse my call. Um, any members have any questions? I don't. You can you can sit down for now. Um, I was wondering sorry about that. Are you adding anything or any additions to the building or the building would be just this itself? Uh, there will be uh no additions to the building. All uh future plans for renovations would simply be rearranging the the insides of the building.

Okay. Aside from the the the garage. Okay. Any other questions? Thank you. You want to wait until we have any comments? If we any comments from it's audience. What? You're going to open up for public hearing? Yes. And you just said if he'd like to stage just in case there isn't. He is supposed to sit down when you open it up for public hearing. Oh, I thought we had some of them stage to wait. Okay. Okay. All right. Anybody in the public like to make any questions, comments, concerns? So you guys don't require sight for all of the Would you like

Mr. Dawkins? You can come to the microphone now. Do you have Excuse me. You Mr. My name is Maurice Dawkins. Okay. Do you have any questions in regard to this petition? Yes. He asked a question about the site plan and then he said there was no site plan. So my question for you guys is don't every situation require a site plan like during the application of the BZA.

Okay. I don't know if that's a question that he can make answer but we just sit down now and we will get an answer for you. Okay. Right. Anybody else in the audience like to make any comments or questions in regard to the petition? Anybody online? Don't see anyone. All right, we will close this period of public comments. I don't think our petitioner can answer that. Can Mr. Poland or Mr. Novak can answer the question?

So Tom, did we not get a site plan or or sorry? Yeah, site plan. We had a floor plan, but since the property was there were no additions being made or anything to the exterior, we did not have a site plan. No.

Okay. And also just to state for the record with the floor plan and this is addressed in the staff report. We have discussed this with the building commissioner and and this is this point has been brought to the attention of the petitioners that the floor plan would have to be modified because of the the way they're showing the access to the mechanical room is not is is is not acceptable by code. So we know that this floor plan will be altered and modified to address that. Okay. All right. Board members, do you have any questions?

My the answer is that he is not building a building. He's not doing any additions to the building. He's not changing the exterior layout of the house. So, we need we were more concerned with the floor plan. We did not request a site plan. I'm saying with the application itself always required that you have that it's not always again this is not appropriate to have a discussion and debate in the manner in which this is occurring and u Mr. Dawkins um we can discuss this issue after the meeting

but wouldn't that Mr. I I quite frankly because of the acoustics I cannot understand what you're saying. So no all I'm asking is because she required she asked for all of my requirements for my situation and said they were not fulfilled and somehow it's the same situation and like it's not in wording in the application that it does not require a site plan specifically for that. So therefore it should be a site plan presented or that mean his stuff would be incomplete as well as mine or does that not okay sir coordinate the same way we have tabled your petition due to the fact that all null notification requirements had not been met.

I'm aware of that it has nothing to do with a far as a site plan or anything like that. No as far as like the requirements I mean like in general everything combined. So, no, it is not. I think that would be something you'd want to bring up when you speak with the staff in regard to the notification requirement and make sure you check to say, is there anything else that I'm required to do? So, I have make sure the notification are met and required so that we be able to address your case next month.

So, it's all situational. That's what I'm just trying to get an understanding of how these situations work. the the the big difference between your situation and all the other petitioners tonight is all the other petitioners met their notification requirements correctly. Correct. When it comes to what is submitted to the board or to the staff in preparation for the board, it is a determination. We have a list of requirements that goes into you know in our packet. We have a list of things that be submitted

which states the site plan. Correct. and we have a right as staff to modify that on a case-bycase basis depending upon what the specific request is. This particular request was a lot size variance. As Mr. Novak has indicated there was no changes to the footprint of the building, no additions. And therefore, what we are looking at is um making that that lot size um difference in order for them to have the two units. when it comes to the I I'm going to say this. When it comes to them, if they're going to demolish the garage and that they are going to then put the parking pads for the three spaces, we will need a site plan for that because that's going to be a permit requirement. So basically he's he's only asking for approval for the work in the building itself. But

he's not asking for the any of the work inside the building when it comes to construction walls is not the jurisdiction of this board. It is only the jurisdiction of the building commissioner. All we have done is of since since we sent information out to all of our departments which is our normal procedure. Okay. The comment came back from discussions with the building commissioner that this was a concern about the particular floor plan. All we're doing is bringing that to the attention of the board. Okay.

Um and the petitioner certainly has been aware of it because I quite frankly know I emailed her the information to her. So I I it is just a matter of it and I don't want to jump into what the staff report's going to say, but we're making reference to the fact that this needs to is a requirement. This is going to be resolved through the building commissioner. Okay. I just want to get understand. Thank you. All right. I believe we were at any other questions from board members at this time. I don't.

And then I lost my track. We are ready for the staff report.

Yeah. Tom. Okay. In the matter of BZA KC 2512 for 6604 Jackson Avenue, staff has reviewed the petitioner's request and recommends that the BCA grant the developmental variance should the board feel the petitioners met the standards subject to the following conditions. One, accommodation of placement of mechanical room of apartment one or the front unit to be in compliance with building and fire codes. Two, technical review and final approval of all building plans and by city staff, especially in relation to code compliance with occupancy as a two-unit residence. Three, accommodation of at least three off- streetet parking spaces on subject parcel. And four, if garage demolished and off parking spaces orientated to access from alleyway and rear, then replacement of driveway, apron, and curb cut on Vine Street. All right. We have proposed bindings of fact presented by the staff. Any questions, comments, changes, revisions?

I don't. We have a motion to adopt the staff report and their recommendations and the findings of fact into the record. I'll make the motion to approve as long as the petitioner meets the standards and conditions provided in the staff report. Do we have a second? Second. We have a motion. A second. Roll call vote, please. Hustle. Yes. Bill, yes. Walner, yes. Rock, yes. Yes. Five, yes.

We have a motion in regard to Z-25-12 for the developmental variance for 6604 Jackson Avenue. Make a motion to accept. Second. We have a motion and a second. Roll call vote. Yes. Bill, yes. Hner, yes. Brock, yes. Yes. All right, you're ready.

Next item is Z-25-13 petition of Christopher J. I think it's a J might be a T. Golden for developmental variant to modify title section 150 definition to allow a 583 square ft addition above the 720 square ft maximum per private garage of 7139 Meadow Lane Avenue in R1 single family residential district in the city of Madam Chairman, just to note for the record, um, correcting the the on the agenda, it is

Yeah, I underlined two numbers. Well, let me okay what I was going to say is that just to note for the record that um contrary to some errors in the GIS system and things like that is just Meadow Lane is not Meadow Lane Avenue. Um and some of the public records are in conflict with what the actual name of the street is. And you were going to raise what was your question? I had I don't know. I'll be honest with you because I underlined 583 square feet and 270 square feet.

Well, why don't we allow the petitioner to make his petition and we will let him address all those issues. All right, Mr. Golden, I assume. Yes. My name is Christopher Golden. I am the uh owner of 7139 Meadow Lane Avenue in Hammond. Um, and I couldn't overheard the conversation. I've always been under the understanding of 7139 Metal Lane Avenue. It's if you look at your street sign, it just says Metal Lane. Is it okay? Y look at look at the I think if and I've had some issues typing it into uh Google and it's hard to find when it's under me lane, but So, but this is just a nitpicky question, so let me just clarify.

Sure. When you Google it, you type in me lane and it shows up or doesn't show up? Um, I believe it does not show up. It has like if I give my address out and have somebody, you know, try to find me, it it's harder to find unless it it's harder to find unless you include a when you include AV and it's easier to find. Yeah. Which is odd. That is I I I I you know, it's not the first time that there is um you know, Google's not perfect. Sure. And um it is a matter of we have we have this issue with the misuse of Chicago street versus Chicago Avenue up in North Hammond. Okay, it is technically Chicago Street, but

in in some of the databases it'll pick up Avenue. Okay. And so it's one of those things of what happen what's what's on the internet stays on the internet and you can't get rid of incorrect information. Right. Right. So yeah. Okay. I was just curious. It's the first I've ever Yeah. um had anything

questioned like that with with the address. But um back to the matter at hand. Um I'm requesting a develop developmental variance um to increase the uh garage size on my private residence. Um my my my residence used to be a two um lot parcel that was just recently combined into one lot which is about a about a half of an acre. And um I had purchased that lot um several years ago. It had a um existing house on it that was demolished and there was an existing um 700 some odd square um garage on that parcel. I purchased that parcel and um it was in pretty poor condition. And over the years I've um you know rehabbed it and um you know installed a a driveway and um did a lot of landscaping and maintained it. And um I'm I'm asking for a uh increase in the uh the lot or the um square footage to put a 24x 24 addition on the back of the uh the garage which is towards um my residence. So, um the the uh the addition really won't be affecting any of the surrounding properties. Um there's um going back to the uh let's see here the uh the three um questions. Here we go. Find this.

Um the three questions in regards to the developmental standards. Um, I'd like to just address each one with a response and the addition will be for personal use. Um, so it will uh will not affect any other residences in the vicinity. Uh, adjacent properties will not suffer any adverse effects with the construction. Um across the street uh there is a the new Southshore platform directly across the street and um to the north is a rental property and I think there's that's probably within 100 ft of the uh proposed addition. To the south is a another private residence which is uh probably about 75 feet from the addition as well. um the proposed additions all fall way below the um lot size ratio limits. And um I additionally kind of wanted to put, you know, build a a smaller house on this particular property, but that entire stretch of uh Lyman Avenue has no city sewer in it. All those homes that are on that uh stretch of of metal on Lyman have septic only and per the Lake County requirements, you need to have like a minimum acre parcel to even build on that. So, all those homes are kind of uh been grandfathered in, I guess. So, I'm not even really able to build a um a home on this property. So, I wanted to just use this as an addition to supplement my um my residence, which is about it's about a halfacre lot, so it's

kind of out of standard for most of the lots in Hammond. But um that's pretty much it. Do you have anybody have any questions? I have a comment that I need to make. Yes. For all notification requirements. Okay.

Okay. Any questions from board members? I don't. No. Just for the record, um, you are going to be constructing at the same height and style as the garage that exists to try and match it, right?

Yes. Everything, um, is going to mimic what's there. the the roof hike, peak hike, uh sopets and fascinating, [Music] matching. So, it should it's pretty much a pretty simple project. So, it's going to um basically all the all the siding materials and everything match the house that's uh which is my current residence. So, it's it's going to be a very uh cohesive project, I guess. It's not going to be a a patchwork quilt by any means.

And ju just in general, what's the purpose of the addition?

Um, I'm I'm a car guy. I've had classic cars all my life and um I have I have three, you know, 67 Impala, 62 Nova, and a 72 Nova. So, I just kind of need the garage space for that stuff. And then we have a built-in pool outside, uh, yard furniture, two large concrete patios, you know, we entertain outside, so, you know, I have a a riding lawnmower, you know, just lots of lawn equipment. I just I just kind of need the space. It's a, you know, above average size property. It kind of requires above average size storage, if you will. Any questions? We'll move into public expression. Anybody in the public like to speak for against comments?

Mr. Golden, you can sit down. Thank you.

Kathy, you need to mic. It's hard to hear you. Oh, okay. He usually tells me. Um, anybody in the public? Anybody online? Hearing none, we will close this period of public comments and move to the staff report. Okay, Tom, just there's a couple of Yeah. technical things you might want to bring out.

Yeah. Um, so, you know, in our discussion with um Mr. gold and you know since he did combine the two parcels they were initially you know as the staff report gets into the west half was 7139 metal lane or and the east half was 7142 Lyman Aav they were combined into one parcel that way now this garage is no longer an orphaned it's an accessory building to a primary dwelling right um with that in mind we wanted to make sure that as it sits in the rear yard it seemed like a rear yard per se um we did discuss with Mr. Golden about moving the fence east so that it uh ran in uh parallel with the front building line to kind of create a rear yard space there which will use to store um he does have a boat in an RV he'd like to store behind that fence in the rear yard as we're calling it as it is. Um you know there is also some paved area in front of the garage and then the driveway becomes gravel by Lyman Avenue. Mr. Mr. Golden indicated within the next year he should be able to pave the driveway so that it is fully paved with asphalt from the garage to Lyman Avenue. He'll also pave an area north of the garage so that he can properly store his RV and boat, put a gate in on that fence so they can get out. Um so we did, you know, keep in mind a couple of those items which are included as conditions as you'll see in the staff recommendation. Um and of course we never want to see this. One of the concerns with a garage of this size is that in the future someone may have the idea to use it as habitable space or a coach home. We've also put a condition and Mr. Golden is comfortable with it to never let it be used as habitable space. Um we're asking Mr. Golden to record a commitment document with uh the Lake County Recorders Office stating these things. Um is there anything else? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Um Mr. Golden, could you come back to the microphone, please? Okay. So, um you are aware as what uh Mr. Novvec just said that we're requesting a commitment document. Yes. And and you um I'm you understand what that means. And yeah, it means I can't ever use it for a habitable space. Well, amongst all the other things, it also it also puts that time frame as far as the pavement's concerned. and things like that, right? Um, but it it is we're gonna have to sit down and talk about the format of that document because it has to be a recordable document.

Okay. Okay. So, so that's assuming this goes forward. Sure. I just want to make sure that you understood that's what the staff is saying. We're look going to look for a legal document that's going to capture all that information. Okay. Okay.

Sure. And I also like to clarify, you know, given the way the agenda item is written, I just want to be clear right now that garage is about 736 ft. He's asking for a 583 square ft addition about. So at the end of the day, this garage will end up being about 1320 ft and it will remain one story. I just wanted to be clear. Any other questions from board members or anyone else?

Okay. Thank you. Um so staff recommendation for the matter of Z2513 um 7139 Meadow Lane staff has reviewed the petitioner's request and recommends that the BZA grant the developmental variance should the board feel the petitioners met the standards subject to the following conditions. One, all reasonable attempts are made to match design and appearance of garage addition with design and appearance of existing garage structure as Mr. Golden's indicated. Number two, no permit shall be issued until a commitment document is recorded that documents the following. Accessory building the detached garage will never be utilized as habitable space. B installation of paved or otherwise impervious driveway from garage to Lyman Avenue rightway and anywhere vehicles are to be parked within one year of additions approval. C. Reinstallation of privacy fence across width of yard either in line with the east wall or front wall of garage. Well, rear wall actually, I guess, or in space between garages east wall and the front building line of neighbors dwelling at 7146 Lyman Avenue. Um, just so you understand that kind of sets a range of where the fence could be so that the fence isn't too close to Lyman. Um, but those are the two conditions as presented under staff recommendation.

Right. We have some proposed findings of fact prepared by the staff. Any questions, comments? deletion recommendation. No. Okay. Hearing none. But we have a motion to approve the staff report and the recommendations presented by the staff and the proposed findings of fact to the record. Make a motion. Second. We have a motion, a second. Roll call vote. Hassle, yes. Bill, yes. Brenner, yes. Brock, yes.

Yes. All right. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. I just said there's five. Okay. We have a motion to in regard to developmental variance for D23 2513 for 7139 metal lane Avenue. I'll make that motion. Second motion and second. Could we have a roll call vote? Yes. Yes. Y yes. Yes.

Good luck. Bye.

Hey, next item on the agenda is Z-25-14 [Music] petition for foreign local Holdings LLC for a variant of use allowing title section 11.10 107 distribution of title section 11.10 [Music] food processing at 6716 to 6718 Kennedy Avenue for a brew pub as a permitted juice title section 7.10 in a C1 local commercial district in the city of Hammond. Our next item is related to Z2514. So I will read it and you may present them together and we will have a separate vote. Is the-25-15 petition for foreign local holdings LLC for a variance of use allowing title section 8.10 10 parents 12 tavern and the like at 6716 through 6718 Kennedy Avenue for a brew pub as a permitted use integral section 7.10 in a C1 local commercial district in the city of Hammond. Have all notification requirements been met?

All notification requirements have been met. Okay. Madam Chair, we have a revised staff report. Has the petitioner had a copy of this? Yes, he was provided one as well. He has been. Yeah. Tonight or before? Tonight as you as you all has the petition had a chance to read it because the board has Okay, the petitioner here. If you had a chance to re read the Okay, I'll wait.

What? State your name and your address and write them down, please. Uh, my name is Michael Glowaki. I'm the owner and operator of Foreign Local Brewery and Tap Room at uh 6716-18 Kennedy Avenue. Okay. And that's where you live. Sorry. Okay. 31 to49 Martha Street, Highland, Indiana. Okay. Have you had a chance to read the revised report? I have. Yes.

Okay. Just checking that out. Uh, Madam Chairman, just for the benefit of everybody here in general, the changes to the staff report were technical corrections to information to capture information that came from the Hammond Department of Environmental Management and the Hammond Sanitary District. there are appendices that are added into the back of the report that provides the technical communication information that come from those boards. So that's in general what the nature of the of the uh revisions are.

So they're basically in regard to our recommendation. It had an effect on the actual wording of the recommendation, but the substantial or sub substantive part is providing clearer information that was in the original version regarding HDM and HSD. Okay. And the variance of use has not been changed at all. No, that's that's the essence of the case. Okay. Yep. making sure. All right, I think we're ready for you. All notifications been made, right? Yes. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead.

So, if you can just talk about the first case, which is for the distribution and the food processing and then the tavern separately. Um, he can do it one after another. I want Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. Okay, go ahead. You you would like me to just address 14, correct? Yes.

Um, so uh foreign local brewery and tap room has been operating in Hammond since uh February of 2022. Um our previous location was just northwest of city hall here um off of uh Faget and Oakley Street. We operated there for two years and we wish uh to come before the board today um to allow us to use the building classified as C1 to continue our business of uh producing uh locally made craft beer and have uh food items available for patrons which is required by the Indiana Alcohol Tobacco Commission. Okay. Can you briefly go over the nature of the food processing brewery operation and then discuss what the nature of the distribution is?

Um, I'll list them separately since they're pretty different. Um, the tavern aspect is pretty cut and dry. Uh, oh, don't talk about the tavern. Talk about the brewery. The brewery. Okay. the and the distribution.

Okay, the brew and distribution uh aspect is um we will be processing grain and water um to make a sugary liquid that will be uh converted into alcohol by yeast through means of natural fermentation. Um we will then take uh that finished conditioned beer which we make in uh three to seven barrel batches. It's about 100 to two gallons uh when we make a batch of beer. And when the beer is done conditioning, we will then carbonate it and put it into kegs or cans for uh sale for the public, restaurants, bars, um other breweries, liquor stores, etc. stuff like that.

Okay. So when it comes to the production of the beer, um, as we indic as I indicated, this the substantial changes in the staff report are related to the Hammond Sanitary District questions and the Hammond Department of Environmental Management. So we are aware that the questions are given to you that you provided a response and that you had discussions uh with both of them or you just had email discussions. What was what was the nature of the communication?

Uh we had I had addressed both concerns with uh Mr. Massie and uh Mr. Novak um regarding the disposal of grain um after we are done using it for the processing of the sugary liquid called referred to as W. Um when the uh quote unquote spent grain is uh no longer of use to that uh we will take that spent grain uh and put it into uh sealable plastic drums that will be taken off site within 24 hours by uh one of our local farmers that will essentially use it for cattle feed to raise their their livestock and stuff like that.

Okay. And the drums are kept inside the property the building. Okay.

And um one of the other uh concerns was in the case that uh there's anything spilled or anything like that. Um there was concern about any uh liquid or anything of that nature being um going on the public asphalt and stuff like that. uh then the method that we are going to be using, we're essentially ensuring that we're not going to have the containers don't have uh an area to leak. They're essentially sealed um all the way and then sealed at the the very very top of it. But given in case the nature of you know something does happen, say if one of the drums falls over or gets run into or something, um we have made plans to essentially throw down um sawdust where any liquid may have gotten down similar to how um custodians will clean up like uh you know like vomit, stuff like that at a at a fair, stuff like that. And then that further will be put into sealed bags and then disposed of same day like immediate essentially.

Okay. The distribution what type of vehicles how many are coming to and from this location?

We do self-distribution. So it's generally in in our vehicles. So we do not have any um contractual commitments or obligations with any distribution companies such as you know Calat Beverage or uh you know Indiana Beverage stuff like that. Um we generally do very very little in distribution since we try to focus a majority of our sales inhouse you know so we have guests coming and sitting down for a full extended stay. Um it's probably about a 30% to 70% split of what we sell um outside versus inside. 30% being what we sell distribution to local bars, liquor stores, restaurants, and other breweries. So um it'll there will be no different vehicles as far as right now in our parking lot that will be addressing the distribution.

Okay. When you say no different vehicles, right? So, are we talking about panel vans or what size vehicles it would be distributing? I mean, I've currently been using a 2010 Honda Accord for the past four years to do some deliveries and stuff. Um, okay. So, you're maybe if we do fairly well, I might get a 2020 Honda Accord, but we'll see.

Okay. So, so we're talking about in essence a small amount of production, a smaller amount of of uh whether it's by keg or whatever however you are distributing it a normal passenger vehicle or SUV or something like that would be a something that you're going to transport that at least at this stage based on the volume of production you're able or you're anticipating at this point in time.

Yes sir. Uh if this helps give any clarity, we will generally never deliver more than what you can fit on a standard size pallet and we generally won't use any vehicles bigger than like a normal van. like uh sometimes like uh I'll have um deliveries to Indianapolis where I'll rent like um an SUV to you know maximize the amount of space to take down deliveries for. But essentially if we get that big we would probably at that point start deciding if we should choose to sign on with a distributor or not. But as far as the immediate plans for the next I would say year, year and a half, even two years, we plan to do everything pretty uh grassroots home base, you know, um with us doing majority of the leg work for right now.

I think to Brian's point, you know, you're not having any semi trucks come and go. Correct. No, we are not. Okay. And the nature of your production, your distribution, is that similar to your FET Street location or or your former Fyet Street location? We obviously hope to have a little more growth than our previous, you know, two years of existence. But for right now, yes, that that is the the goal is to pretty much be in line with what we were doing before as far as production and distribution. Um I think we kind of missed I have to step back. I I don't think we had sufficiently talked about the sanitary district's concerns.

Uh correct. Uh regarding the um the production and further the the cleaning and removal of any sediment, beer particulate that may have been left over. Say when we make a batch of beer, let's say I made enough to make 10 kegs worth. After I keg all 10 kegs that was able to uh be made, um we still have to evacuate the contents remaining in the fermentation vessels, the the fermenting tanks. And uh this generally is around 2 and 1/2 gallons of sediment that is referred to as a yeast tube which I lightly defined in the staff report. Um it's very similar if not the same as what you would see as the bottom of sedimentation in a wine bottle. Um it is comprised of yeast and microscopic protein. Um and when we do evacuate uh we generally do uh it's about a ratio of one to three of of let's say if we are evacuating one gallon of waste of the sedimentation the yeast tube we are throwing in three gallons of rinse water on top of that. So, it's kind of a ratio of 1:3 of when we're evacuating um the sediment and troo. And followed immediately after that evacuation, we immediately begin the cleaning cycle, which is immediately followed again by a 10 to 25 gallon rinse that is followed up by a 10gallon uh cleaning cycle, which is made of a solution of water and uh it's a powdered

brewery wash. It's very similar to Oxyclean. Um it's just an oxidizing cleanser. Um, and after that cleaning cycle is done, then we follow up with a final 15 gallons of rinse water. So, the amount of uh sedimentation and troop that we're sending down the drain is followed by easily more than 10 times the amount of of rinse water to uh make sure that everything flows well, that everything is evacuated uh easily and properly. And then at the end of the day, the pipes will have cleaner sent down further, you know, removing anything left in the in the pipes and then followed by rinse water as well.

So in your conversations with uh Jeff Massie at the sanitary district, you explained all that to him. The whole idea making sure that in essence things are flushed through the sanitary system with enough water to get it into the um get it through the dist the pipe distribution system in order to get to the uh uh the plant. Um and um so anyway, you were you satified you basically satisfied all of his questions to to the best of my knowledge. Yes, sir. Okay. All right.

And just to provide context, um, this brewery production area, it's going to only occupy the rear half of the building. Correct. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? The brewery production will only be the rear half of the building, right? Correct. Yes. And there is an overhead garage door to provide access. Right. There is onite. Yes. Okay. All right. Then I think you had the food processing part of this, too. That's the beer prop beer production is a food processing. Okay. The distribution was how the vehicles are coming and going and what type of vehicles. What food was being processed? Beer. Oh, there's no food then. Well, edible food.

Liquid lunch. Isn't Isn't beer edible? Real heck of a better term. I'm not a beer contest. Sorry. where the term consumable makes sense. Food when you're having like a restaurant type thing that was involved

this is how we have handled the other well the the other um brew pubs in essence that we have which would be 18th Street and um byway. My age was when I saw food when you talk about it far as a tap room tavern type thing. It was pro food that has been cooked. So apparently change thing and it no longer has to be cooked on site. It can be prepackaged. Right. So but let's not cloud the question with that. Let's talk about the I'm clarifying my mind. Okay.

Thank you sir. The indulgence. Yes.

Yes, ma'am.

I I believe that it was most likely just referring to like day of. So I'm again Cynthia microphone because it's a little hard to hear over here but you're asking about the byproduct and it's its removal and it and in the time frame that it's removed you you saw a discrepancy between certain things. Not in the reading he stated it within 24 hours as opposed to what we read which is 12 hours. Oh okay. So, so okay, but that goes back to I think as you said it it you're going to get move have it removed within the either same day or

Yes, that was my mistake saying 24 hours. What I meant was that it will be removed in the same day that it's processed. So, if we uh when we put the grain into water, we refer to it as mashing in. When we mash in, it'll be about 8:00 a.m. 9:00 a.m. something like that. And then grain removal will happen somewhere between 3 and 6 pm of that same day. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.

This is Z-2514. May he speak now on Z-2515? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Do you have any comments in regard to Z-2515 the variance of use the taverns aspect? Um so the front end stuff

okay so uh well I guess now I can say that aspect is pretty straightforward but it's uh it is essentially what it says um the western portion the western half of our building will be used as the warehouse production facility and the eastern portion will be used as our front of house where we will uh seat uh guests and patrons to come in sit down at our bar um enjoy a beer or two, buy some beer to go, um and hopefully some merchandise on the way out as well. But uh we plan to be open 2:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. That is uh pretty in line with what our previous hours were at our our previous location. And um yes, there there anything further I can add to that.

So because of Indiana law regarding in essence tavern bars, there has to be a certain amount of food made available. Correct. You started talking about that and then we So let's get back into that.

Yes. Um, so due to, you know, uh, the Indiana Alcohol Tobacco Commission, um, for any alcohol license, uh, you're required to have, I believe, you're you're required to be able to serve milk, soup, or sandwiches, something of along the the guidelines of that. Um, we do plan on, um, getting a sanitary license with, uh, Lake County. Um, mostly so we can just serve our guests, uh, you know, packaged food like chips, stuff like that. Uh, we'll essenti. So, we're just kind of going through going through that as well. We're not going to do any um we're not going to have any big equipment whatsoever. It'll be we the the extent of the equipment that we we will have will be uh like a panini press or um a like a Dorine's pizza oven up and something similar to that. So, we're not going to do a deep fryer, nothing that will require a hood or a complete kitchen buildout. Mainly just to kind of give the bare essentials of, you know, what someone would want if they wanted like a hot sandwich or, you know, something like that.

Okay. So, it will be set up where you have enough electrical to do any heating up or anything like that of the Yes, ma'am. Okay. So, so I guess the distinction is you're not a going you do not anticipate going to a full-fledged restaurant where you're going to be serving I don't know steaks and caviar and all sort you're going to it's a very limited menu based on as you said the the small appliance equipment correct thing that you're doing. Yeah. I am in no way a chef and I don't plan on being one. You have no plans for expansion of the building to go into something like that? No, we plan on keeping the building as

as what it is right now. Well, that's why I was questioning because it used to be they had to have food prepared on site. Yeah. Years ago. And that's why I was amazed with we still I mean like we'll we'll keep like chips and stuff like that on hand for patrons and stuff, but it's essentially just to satiate the needs for our ATC license and then the sanitary license with um with Lake County as well. All right. Do you have anything else? I just want to clarify. So you work you do provide bathrooms. One of them is ADA compliant. Correct.

Uh we have one bathroom that is already set up as ADA compliant. Um along the north wall of the building. Um there is a larger bathroom that uh may be converted to uh or there's a stall in that bathroom that can be converted into an ADA stall. And the bathroom closest to the east wall um can also be converted to an ADA uh laboratory. It just needs to have the bar installed. So technically all three restrooms can be um ADA compliant.

Okay. But one currently is without any changes. Okay. Yes. There there is one. Yes. Correct. As far as interior As far as interior seating, you're not looking for you're looking for less than 50 people, correct? Correct. At this time, 50 seats, I mean. Okay. Any question from board members?

I do. Mr. Poland, you had me interested in this distribution. Where do your products leave the building? What part what side of the building do they leave the building? Um, I'm not sure if it's shown on the the floor plan that we have, but in the red section that's defined as the brewery area on the south wall near uh it would be the the southwest corner near there. Um, we have I believe it's a 12 by 12 Thank you.

foot garage door that we'll pull the vehicle up next to and then load everything into the vehicle. My second question is your trash enclosure. Where is your trash being held? Uh, it's currently next to that garage door because we've just been like moving everything. It's not in its permanent spot right now. Where will it? Uh, along the back alleyway next to it's in line with the the dumpster of the building, the the business to the north of us. Yeah. to be sure he owns 60 cycles. Yeah. Yeah. He owns the parts of the north as well.

Okay. So, the vehicles that are going to pick up your product and deliver it andor vehicles that deliver products to your facility so you can make beer will be using the parking lot as their loading dock. Uh, correct. But we will be closed to the public during these delivery times. Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Any other question?

I don't open up for public comment. Anyone in the public like to speak at this time? Anyone online like to speak? Hello. I have a question. My name is Olympia Gutierre and I'm at 6736 Kennedy Avenue. Um, I just wanted to know if there's going to be any strong odors related to the brewing process and will you be allowing outside food in the tavern?

Okay, thank you for your question. We will address it after we have any other comments. Any other comments at this time? Mike, I guess I should have said you should sit down and come back up and answer the question. Now that I'm here, should I answer the question? Just just one second. Did you close public comment? Oh, I I will close public comments at this time. That was a question, not an instruction. Okay, now you may answer a question. Okay. So the so the question was odors and whether or not there was any outside food being brought in. So allowed to be brought in.

Allowed to be brought in. So answer the second one first. Um at this moment we are not uh we are not sure if we will allow outside food or not. um at this very moment. Um regarding the smell, I do believe Hang on. Don't leave the food yet.

Okay. So, is there any aspect of the liquor license granted by the state? Because you talked about the liquor license and how much food that you're going to have available in the house. Does the liquor license by the state prevent you from bringing outside food in?

No, not at all. There are many places that highly encouraged to bring outside food if they don't have a kitchen. Um, it's fairly common in uh micro breweries, especially here in Northwest Indiana, if they don't have a kitchen to say, you know, there's a restaurant down the street or they'll give uh menus in their place of business establishment and say, if you would like some food, there's ex business down the street that that you're able to order from. So, in no way is that any violation of any liquor laws or anything with the ATC or TTB federally. Okay. Okay. All right. And you guys do reserve a right to have food trucks if they're licensed and everything.

Yes. We used to we used to do that. We we used to encourage, you know, outdoor outside food um at our previous location because we had no food element whatsoever. Um, depending on, I guess, the demand for our food product, that may change, but as of right now, I do not have an answer for that. That that is up in the air. Okay. Um, now the odor question.

Um, for the odor question, I believe that we addressed that pretty well. Everything's going to be taken off site um the day of um everything that's going into the drain into the sanitary sewer system is having adequate amounts of water and cleaner followed behind it every time we evacuate a tank. So um I I do not see any issues with odor.

Okay. So, it kind of goes back to um our discussion that um with the environmental management department um because odors is one of their jurisdictional u jurisdictions and that you've I know the um director of that department and I discussed the question of the odors and so that goes back to um the conversation that you had and how you are um the sealed containers that you have the um the byproduct that gets picked up by the farmer that it is going to leave as with same day or whatever. We we discussed earlier before it has a chance to create an odor

before it has a creating order. um to some extent it is the the flushing of the si of the of your residual product through the sewer system so it's not um capturing and then of course you know god forbid it fails but there there always is um if there are complaints and um you know things that go wrong then you know then the city and the environmental manage department the sanitary district um you know that would be addressed through their um enforcement responsibilities. Yes, sir. Any other questions? No.

No. I have a dumb question. The stuff that is being fed to the calf, does that have any alcohol in it?

No. Um the uh there's a different type of fermentation that happens on the grain itself. Um it's referred to as like entroacteria and it's just um it's essentially what you would find in um live probiotic yogurt. Uh it's uh different strains of a bacteria that's found like in your body system called lactobacillus and um it creates a mild fermentation that does not produce alcohol. So unfortunately the cows and livestock do not get any fund from ingesting grain. I'm sorry.

That could be fortunate too. Well, yeah. Depends on the cow. All right. Hey, are we ready for the staff report? Do we have the staff report for Z-25-14 for the variance of youth? Yes. Um, one thing I wanted to bring up before I read it. Um, you did mention that sometimes when you're evacuating the production run, it's between 3 and 6:00 p.m. Um, no, that would be when like the the farmer would come and pick up the grain. I just want to make sure our recommendation jives with what? Okay. Okay.

So, staff has reviewed the petition's request and recommends that the BCA forward the petition for a variance of use to the city council with a favorable recommendation. Should the board feel the petitioners met the standards subject to the following conditions. One, compliance with the waste disposal, odor control, and leech control measures approved by the Hammond Department of Environmental Management and Hammond Sanitary District as noted in appendix A and B and other applicable regulations. Two, beer production is restricted to the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. and to 3,000 square ft of the building. Three, submit all technical review and final approval of all building and site plans by city staff. Four, restriping parking lot to maximize off streets parking spaces within 9 months. And five, providing a written policy to all delivery drivers and employees to utilize only Kennedy Avenue for access and potentially recording a commitment document stating so. Um, you'll also find the proposed findings of facts on the next two pages.

Okay. We have again a proposed findings of fact that the staff has presented to us proposed for us. Any questions, comments, additions, deletions, corrections? I just had a question about the the striping of the parking lot. Is is that um a required necessity for the gravel parking lot that was referred to as the striping? Well, so the rest striping was in reference to the paved area. Ah, okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that. Well, right. And please also understand a gravel parking lot is a violation. Okay.

Yeah. So, please do instruct your employees and your customers to avoid parking in the gravel.

Right. So, so that's where you know you need to that you need to address the pavement and the parking issues, you know. So, that's where we're going to get into uh verifying the number of parking spaces. um and the details, the ADA spaces, the loading dock area, and that um it would have been nice to have had that now, but but nonetheless, uh we need to address that. And if if it means that additional area has to be paved and some of that gravel area needs to be paved, then then we need to that has to be a part of the project. Okay. Okay.

You okay with that? Yes. It may be noted there's a there's a large area of the parking lot that is currently not striped. People use it to park, but it would be nice to have actual spaces striped instead of people just parking where they wish. They got nine months. All right. We still with the proposed binding of facts. We have no comments, questions. Nothing. No.

All right. Do we have a motion to adopt the staff report and the recommendation and the proposed findings of fact into the record? I'll make the recommendation. Second. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the motion. Okay. What' you say? I said I make a motion to We had a motion to adopt the staff report and his recommendations and the proposed finding the fact into the record. Correct. Yes. Thank you. My second still stands. Roll call vote, please.

Yes. Bill, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Five. Yes. Okay. Do we have a motion in regard to Z-25-14? the variance of use for the micro brew distribution and food processing. I'll make the motion to approve as long as the petitioner meets the standards and conditions provided in the staff report. Okay, that is not the correct motion. A favorable recommendation. Yes. Okay. Restate it please for the record.

A favorable recommendation as long as the petitioner follows the standards and conditions provided in the staff report. Okay. Favoral recommendation to the city council. To the city council. Correct. Yes. Okay.

I'll second. We have a motion, a second to send this f with a favorable recommendation to the city council. Will this be heard at the next meeting of the city council? It would depend upon our processing of the minutes because we have a certain time period in which we have to generate the minutes, a draft set of minutes and so it may not meet the submission deadline to the next meeting because of a holiday. Okay. So it might not be heard until October. I didn't say that. Okay. I said it may not be ready for the next council meeting. Okay. So it still could be heard in September. Yes.

Okay. Well, sometimes the minutes get delayed. All right. So, so we have a motion and a second. But we have a roll call vote. Hustle. Yes. Bill, yes. Walker, yes. Rock, yes. Yes. Five guesses. Okay. Okay. For clarity, chairperson hill, what the staff provides to the city council is a draft set of minutes that is specific to the variance of use and they are we don't send them approved minutes because that would be impossible to have been done in the time frame that we have to get it to the council. Okay. Okay. Will he be notified when it will be

I'm sorry. He will be notified so he attends that meeting though. or I I just want to just clarify what is what exactly does that mean on my behalf? Council on everything by by this Friday. That's a cut off. That's cut off council. I um Miss Janick, I'm sorry. What did you say? I said meeting and the cut off is this Friday that which is which is to my point that we would be unable to meet the cuto off deadline for the next council meeting which is the 8th. We should be able to meet the cut off for the following council meeting which would be 14 days after that 22nd.

It is my understanding that you go to the city council and you present this all over again today. Not necessarily, Miss Hill. Okay. We will discuss that with you as to what will happen at the city council when we know exactly what meeting it's going to occur at. Put up with the meeting on the 22nd is the 12th. So, it gives them a little more time. Okay. They will let you know when and what you need to do as of September. I won't. Okay. So, I have to do all this over again. Maybe, maybe not.

We will again. I I don't think you should um I see a hesitancy in you and I and I I just don't understand what's happening right now.

Okay. What's What's Okay. Okay. What's happening? And and unfortunately this probably should have been clarified for you but prior to this moment. The fact that this is a variance of use by the statute, state statute, the board of zoning appeals is not the final decision maker. Everything else that happened tonight with developmental variances and conditional uses, the BCA is the final decision maker. Okay? Because it's a variance of use. This has to go to the city council. That's why the motion was a recommendation, favorable recommendation as opposed to an approval. And so the city council has the final decision to they have to approve this very actually both of them once we get to the second one. And what we were talking about is that we have to submit all of this information to the city council plus our um recording secretary will prepare the draft set of minutes for the two cases that are going to the city council. So the council have the benefit of all of tonight's discussions. Beyond that, we can discuss with you your attendance and what your role will be at that council once we get past some of the preliminary things here.

Okay. Okay. And Lee-25-15 is also a variance of you. Yes, ma'am. If that if that is approved or recommended to go to the council, it be the same thing. Okay. So, I'm sorry. a negative recommendation or a negative recommendation would go to that. Okay. Don't don't cloud the No, I'm just trying to explain to what's going to happen. I'm sorry. All right. We have the staff report. Any other questions as far as Z2515? No. No. Okay. Could we have the staff report, please?

Yes. In the matter of Z2515, variance of use for a tavern C1 district at 6716 Haven 18 Kennedy staff has reviewed the petitioner's request and recommends that the BCA forward the petition for a variance of use to the city council with a favorable recommendation should the board feel the petitioner has met the standard subject to the following conditions. One, approval of BZA case number Z2514 and all of its conditions of approval as has been done. and two, maintaining all required Indiana Alcohol and Tobacco Commission and Lake County Health Department approvals, permits, and licenses at all times. The post findings of facts are on the next two pages.

You had no other recommendations, just those two, correct? Just those two uh conditions. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay, we have proposed signing the fact. Any questions, comments, recommendation, deletion? No. No, I don't. Okay. Do we have a motion to adopt the staff report which is recommendations and the proposed findings are fact into the record? I'll make that motion. We have a motion. Do we have a second?

A second. We have a motion, a second. Roll call vote, please. Yes. Bill, yes. Walker, yes. Brock, yes. Yes. Five. Right. Do we have a motion to send this to the common council for Z-25-15 for the variance of you? I will make the motion to forward this petition for a variance of use to the city council with a favorable recommendation. We have a second. Second. Have a motion and a second to call vote, please. Yes. Bill, yes. Faulner, yes. Brock, yes. Yes.

Yes. I'm going to assume that the motion met including the condition. It certainly did. Yes. Okay. I Yes, it was. I think it was David. All right. Good luck. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. All right. Any commissioners recommendations, comments? Um, no, not for me. I have a comment. Okay. Can we have a screen that we can see who's speaking?

This is very difficult to even understand or see these people who are online. And I don't remember ever being so difficult. I thought it was pictures where we saw them in person more. I believe the default setting they're using is that it just stays focused on the council came that's 90% of the time. I'm sure we can talk to Ray online because I think we had one that would get online people.

Yeah. I mean not to belver the point because this is almost 8 o'clock. Yes, we will change the format of this so that we can see the icons of the attendees bigger than we are right now. But we will address that with staff with uh Mr. Esamia because I think it's that over that waiver even the petitioner right here. That's a that's an easy fix. It's just a default setting that we have set right now. But it's it's an easy fix. I can turn it on for you guys easily. Okay. I appreciate it because it's right now. Well, and then it'll There you go. Okay, guys. Can we move on? Yes.

Just want to make a comment. Okay. Um, I apologize for not realizing I was speaking. You gave a different order to when you called her name. I'm used to being glass. I don't know if anybody else noticed that either. It's like, okay. We were getting used to that when you did the roll call. Oh, when I screwed up the one time. You didn't screw. No, you didn't screw up. Usually I'm laughing in a different order and we're all Oh, that's just the way she has it on the sheet. Okay. Sorry for Hey. Hi, Ray. All right. Yeah, that's just the sheet. All right. Yeah, there it is. Hey, Ray. That's it. Commissioner, want to delay the meeting? Hi, Dave. All right. Sheriff

Tom, do we have anything coming up for the next month? We should have um well obviously we've tabled the one matter and we should have another new matter regarding new housing. Okay. We should have these two cases. So we will have a meeting at the end of September. It' be nice if those petition talking to Okay. Oh okay. I didn't see over there. All right. Any public comment? There he comes. Welcome

again. I just want to make sure I get this right moving forward. So, I have a couple questions like as far as like the situation of the lots like doesn't nothing exist like grandfathered in. So, if it was existing house on existing lot and you want to build the same house to fit the rest of the block, is there any way to like grandfather that in where it's like we don't have to go through all of this? I'm just asking just to make

right as I and and with all due respect, we discussed all this and that the fact is is that when you're talking about new construction, we have to go through and apply all the regulations because it's new construction. The lot is um a substandard lot. It therefore technically is not a buildable lot as it is. In order to make it a buildable lot, we go through this process. We do this on a regular basis. There's a lot of lots out there that are are substandard. Uh the first case tonight, you know, this guy had an existing house and the he created a parcel that was substandard. He had no opportunity.

Mr. Poland. Yeah.

So this whole line of questioning is inappropriate. It it is um thinly veiled uh discussion of petitions that have been ruled on by the BCA and it is not appropriate for public comment at this stage to be talking about uh different examples or petitions that either are coming before or came before the board of zoning appeals. So I would just throw that out as advice to you and the board that you can certainly Uh the public comment can be made, but this really isn't a back and forth session, and it specifically isn't a back and forth session when we start when we're starting to talk about petitions that were discussed tonight.

I apologize. I I was just trying to get an understanding. I don't want to have argument back and forth. So, I was just asking because there's a situation I'm I'm new to. So, I'm just trying to figure out how to move forward because I would be running into the situation very often because we're in the process of buying multiple lots. So, I just want to make sure it's easier for me to understand. So, that's what my questioning was. So, I apologize if it as miserable as you're and I'm happy I'm happy uh for staff to talk to petitioners. Um but a public meeting is not the time for uh gaining understanding or education.

As miserable, as miserable as your night has been, your the staff here is very workable. All right. They're trying to get the best work done for you. So, just work with them and they they want you to succeed. Thank you. I appreciate that. And as far as like the meetings, it's only one meeting a month. Yes, there's only one meeting a month. Okay. Thank you.

I'd like to make that motion. Who? We close public. We have a motion to adjurnn. Do we need a second? I second it. Have a nice rest of the summer. Have a nice holiday.