Rules and Personnel - Regular Meeting

Call to order, City of Green Charter Review Commission, February 9. It is 05:31 p. M. We all rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Could we call the roll? Sure. Mr. Dufferin?

Here.

Mr. Knapp?

Here.

Ms. Conan? Here. Ms. Coral? Here. And Ms. Jinko? Here.

The approval of minutes.

I had some comments on those. Okay. The part I'm sorry. I don't have my ducks in a row here. I've got too much paper going on.

The part where it talks about here it is. When we were discussing section c review of article three, the mayor, it go down to about the second or third from the last sentence in that paragraph. It says Bob Knapp and Betty Conan said they don't read it as the terms could go on forever after a second set of four year terms? I do read it that it can go on. I don't know what you felt, but for my purposes, I did feel that it could go on indefinitely as long as they sat out for four years.

So with the you know, where you mentioned also further in here where it says I talk about the electors being able to correct that. So I'm going make that change. And the other part is in that same section, number two, where we talk about 3.2 qualification. I think what I was saying is I remember reading in the ethics code for the Ohio Revised Code Ethics Code, there was a definition in there. I'm not saying that's the definition.

I'm just saying that there was a definition in there that I looked at. So I don't know how you want to fix that. And if I wasn't clear, that's entirely possible. So I apologize for that.

How about if I add the word, might have to do with an Ohio Ohio ethics

revised. Revised. Revised. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. Is all your comments? That's it. Thank you. No comments.

Anybody make a motion to approve as amended?

I approve as or I make a motion to approve as amended. Second.

Any other discussion? Alder Wohr?

Sure. Ms. Stianco? Yes. Ms. Quarle? Yes. Mr. Dufferin?

Yes.

Mr. Knapp?

Yes.

And Ms. Conan? Yes. Okay. Motion carries.

Correspondence. All we really had was some of the discussion we had related to the public notice period from Lisa, and I think we're carrying those changes potential changes in open still is the time frame for that. And I think at some point, we will collect all the things related to the law director and have her present, after she had a chance to review all the things that we have. Any public comment? There's no one here.

Not yet. New business? Oops, sorry. Article IV. Can you walk us through again like you did?

Absolutely, yes. Happy to help. Okay, so today we're doing Article IV, counsel. So we've got 4.1 composition in terms of office. Council shall be composed of seven members.

One member shall be elected by the electors of each of four wards herein provided, and three members shall be elected by the electors of the city at large. The members elected from wards shall be known as ward council members. The members elected from the city at large shall be known as council members at large. All members of council shall have the same rights, powers, and responsibilities subject to provisions of Section 4.13 of this charter. The term of a council member shall be four years beginning January 1, next following a council member's election, and a council member shall hold office until their successor is elected and qualified.

Council terms shall be staggered. Ward council members shall be elected every four years beginning with the regular municipal election occurring in November 1993. Council members at large shall be elected every four years beginning with the regular municipal election occurring in November 1995. A council member may serve for two consecutive four year terms, after which they shall be ineligible for reelection or reappointment as a council member until a period of not less than four years shall have elapsed. Any partial term to fill a vacancy lasting more than two years shall count as a four year term and against the limit.

Any comments, discussion?

No comments? Section 4.2, wards. The city shall be divided into four wards, which shall be as nearly equal in population as is practicable. In the absence of more restrictive case law to the contrary, the population in the largest and the smallest among the wards shall not vary by more than 20% of the population of the smallest ward. Each ward shall be composed of contiguous and compact territory bounded by streets, roads, streams, railroads, and or census block lines.

Council shall have the power to change ward boundaries but shall not have the power to change the number of wards. After each recurring United States census, but more often if counsel finds it necessary because of population changes, counsel shall redraw the boundaries of the four wards subject to the population requirement of this section.

Any discussion? Comment?

How are we determining population? I'm just curious.

So I think it's based off the most recent census.

Okay.

So I think the most recent one was, what, three years ago?

Okay. I went and looked. Was curious And the since 2009, it has not been dramatic since incorporation has been. I think it was probably 3,500 people in 'ninety. But since this last charter has not grown, so maybe 2,500 people. Because I was curious at what point would trigger maybe adding additional ward. But I was surprised it wasn't as significant a growth as I thought.

I, too, looked at the census numbers from the various censuses over the year, and it's nominal considering, no, it's not nearly what Exactly. Would have you

I was surprised. Yeah. It wasn't material. That because I thought that might be something we should look at.

I got the census what I looked up and, you know, chat GPT, so for what that's worth, $19.90, but it it would be our 1992 for the city. '21, January, 2023, March, 2010, '25, June, 202027778. You can chat GPT at

What was the last you said 2020 was

the last one?

Yeah. I

honestly think they just did one this past year. They came to the door and counted everybody. Aren't censuses every

ten years? I don't know. I think we're doing something.

Not really relevant. Census?

Sent? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

I wonder when, like, with you know, like, there's been a lot of new development and new apartment buildings and things like that if there will be a trigger soon.

We'll find out. 2030.

Yeah. Yeah. Probably the next charter review.

Yeah, probably. Not that

far away. Here before you know it,

Yes. No other comments. Okay.

Okay. 4.3 is qualifications. Immediately prior to their election or appointment, each council member shall be a qualified elector of the City Of Green and for at least two continue continuous years immediately prior to each council member's election or appointment, a resident of the City Of Green. During a council member's term, the council member shall remain a resident and qualified elector of the city if elected at large or of the ward from which the council member was elected if elected from a single ward. A council member shall not be otherwise employed by the city and shall hold no other public office than that of notary public or member of the Ohio National Guard or or Reserve Corps of the United States. All I want to

say is that's another place about public office. And so when we if and when we do change it, I think we need to pay attention to where this terminology pops up. That's just a comment. Okay. Thank you. I'm just going

to highlight it just to trigger my Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

Is that all the comments?

Okay. Point four is powers. All legislative powers of the city and other powers granted to counsel under this charter together with all such powers conferred upon municipalities by the constitution and laws of the state of Ohio shall be vested in counsel.

No comments? No question? Okay.

4.5 officers, at the organizational meeting of council in January of each year as provided by this charter, council shall by simple majority vote elect for from among its members a president of council and a vice president of council each to serve for a term of one year. Any council member so elected may serve for two consecutive one year terms after which they shall be ineligible for reelection to either of these council offices until a period of not less than one year has elapsed. The president of council or, in their absence, the vice president of council shall preside at all meetings of council. The president and vice president of council, by virtue of holding these offices, shall not be deprived of their powers and rights or be relieved of any of their duties or obligations as members of council.

Discussion? Nope. Next.

Okay. 4.6 is vacancies. Whenever the office of a council member shall become vacant for any reason, whether occurring by death, disqualification, recall, removal, or resignation, such vacancies shall be filled by a majority vote of the remaining members of council from among qualified electors making application in accordance with the provisions set forth below. Except as provided below, council shall fill the vacancy not less than thirty days nor more than forty five days after it occurs. If the council shall fail to fill the vacancy within forty five days after it has occurred, the power of council the power of council to do so shall lapse, and the mayor shall make an appointment to fill the vacancy from among qualified electors making application in accordance with the provisions set forth below.

Such appointees shall have qualifications as specified in section 4.3 for a candidate for election to the office that has become vacant. Such appointees shall hold office for the balance of the unexpired term of the member in whose office the vacancy has occurred or until the beginning of the term of a successor duly elected for the unexpired term at the next regular municipal election held following the vacancy in said office, further provided that said election shall occur more than ninety days subsequent to the vacancy in said office. The council member, newly elected pursuant to this provision, shall assume office on January 1 following the council member's election and shall serve for the unexpired term of the council member in whose office the vacancy occurred. I'm going give you a second if you want to comment on that section first. It's a mouthful.

I just wanted to note the word disqualification again. But I think that one kind of relates to the qualifications of 4.3. So if we could kind of tie it in later in an index, we could probably define that term as well. Okay. Highlight that one, too.

K. Good to move on. In the event a vacancy shall occur in the office of a council member between a November and December 31 of that year, the above time periods to fill the vacancy shall be told and therefore not begin to run until January 1 of the following year. Applicants for a ward council member vacancy shall submit a letter of qualifications together with petitions signed by 50 electors of the ward in which the vacancy occurred. A person applying for a council member at large vacancy shall submit a letter of qualifications together with petitions signed by 75 electors of the city at large.

The date of petition and the dates of all signatures on such petitions shall be after the date of vacancy in the office for which the petitions are being submitted. Any vacancy in the office of President of Council, whether occurring by death, disqualification, recall, removal, resignation, or by succession to the office of mayor, shall be filled by the vice president of council for the remainder of the unexpired term of president of council. The vacancy so created in the office of vice president of council shall be filled by a council member elected by the majority of the remaining members of council without first appointing a replacement council member. The successor shall hold office for the balance of the unexpired term of the vice president of council. If the vacancy created by the accession of vice president of council shall not be filled by the council within thirty days from the date such vacancy occurs, the power of council to do so shall lapse, and the mayor shall appoint one of the remaining members of council to fill this vacancy.

Only thing it's this is a little when you talk about vacancy here, it's a little different than how it's discussed in terms of the mayor because the mayor introduces the word absent, which is part of a little bit of confusion for me, but that's not in this, for council president.

Agree.

And this is clear. I don't

I agree.

Doesn't have any ambiguity, but the mayor needs just probably that, term vacancy and absentee needs to be defined better, I think. Yes.

So it appears to me, on reading this, and I haven't thought about this before, that they have a provision that if we have municipal elections every two years. Correct? And so if somebody were to leave their position before two years, they would be filled through an election. And if they leave after two years, then there would be an appointment that would fill it until the balance of the term. So there would be an election if it was more than two years.

And this provides such that as 90, it says, if it shall occur more than ninety days subsequent to the vacancy of set office being the next municipal election. However, there's a practical problem with ninety days because there's usually a to get on a ballot, you have to submit to the board of election ninety days before. And so if you were to have a termination ninety one days before the next municipal election, you really wouldn't have time to go through the process of getting your petitions signed by x number of people and submitted, nor would even perfect communications allow you to know that that exists. So if the intent of this language is to say that you're we're just defining a day at which you would use the the next municipal election, I would say that maybe ninety days doesn't doesn't work because you may need one twenty. If that's the intent, I'm not certain it is because I just thought of it as we're talking.

But if that's the intent, you may want to make it 120 so there would be time for people to get said documents together down to the Board of Elections in time for the submittal deadline.

Thank you. No, didn't make sense. Can we make a discussion on that?

I'm going to check. I know some people on the Board that formerly on the Board of Elections, and I'm going to raise that issue, see if they can how it's been handled in the past, what happens, just kind of some research. I don't doubt what you're saying. I'm just saying I wonder if there's something that the Board of Elections does to accommodate that? I don't know. You're looking at me crazy. No? That's okay. I've been looked at worse before.

Ask Nicole, that's just my look. It's possible. I thought the ninety days was to get everything certified and then ballots ordered and all that. So maybe practically, or maybe there is practically if they said, well, if you can get them to us within sixty, maybe that would work, then the ninety days would work. But that's a good question. I don't know. Maybe

you a write in then? How does I don't even know how that works. I don't even know. So that's why I thought, Could you be a write in? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just the wheels are spinning. So let me just see. That's a perfectly legitimate point. Let me I don't even maybe somebody that's been on the Board has run into this, and I can see if they happy to check. It doesn't hurt.

Thank you.

I haven't had to deal with that yet, luckily. Yay.

Yeah, knock on wood. Knock on wood, right? Yeah.

Okay. 4.7, organizational meeting. Within the first seven days of January of each year, council shall meet for the purpose of organization. The mayor or a person appointed by the mayor shall this meeting and shall preside as temporary chairman until the president of council shall be elected.

Good.

4.8, regular and special meetings. After the organizational meeting, counsel shall meet at such times as may be prescribed by its rules, regulations, bylaws, or by the resolution or ordinance, except that it shall hold regularly scheduled meetings at least once during each calendar month. Such council meetings shall be known as regular meetings. All other council meetings shall be known as special meetings. Special meetings of the council may be called as provided by its rules, regulations, bylaws, or by resolution or ordinance.

In the absence of any such provisions, special meetings may be called by a vote of council taken at any regular or special meeting thereof or shall be called by the clerk of council upon the written request of the mayor or the president of council or by any three members of council. Notice in writing of each special meeting called at the request of the mayor or the president of council or by three members of council shall state the date and time of the meeting and subject subject or subjects to be considered at such meeting. No subject or subjects other than those listed in this written notice shall be considered at such special meetings. The written notice required by this section shall be served by the clerk of council upon the mayor and each council member, either personally or by leaving a copy thereof at their usual place of residence, not less than twenty four hours preceding the time for the meeting. In the event that a special meeting is called by a vote of council taken at any regular or special meeting from which any council member was absent, written notice of such special meeting shall be given such absentee in the manner provided here.

I would like to make a comment. We don't do that. So, I think that we need to maybe if you all were okay with that, add like either email, I mean, because that's how we handle all meeting notices at this point via email, our website. They all are emailed. I don't send them anything to their homes. So I think however you want that to look, our current process is not that.

I think we talked about there's going be some things that we don't no longer are relevant today and we should modernize or modify. So I would if you have

So that would certainly be something, I mean, I think would be a good idea.

I agree.

That way we

I'd written I made the same notes. Okay, great.

Could we say either personally by hand delivery or send via an email notification?

Just take out written? Can we just take out written?

Well, says here, though, by leaving a copy at their usual place of residence. So we could say either personally, by hand delivery, because she you'd probably hand deliver them a copy of it the day of the meeting.

Yes, they each get a copy of the agenda, but especially when it comes to special meetings, they're getting that before the day of.

So by email, by electronic? Yeah.

I would worry about taking out written would mean oral notification.

Sure, yeah.

Yeah. I leaving a copy thereof at their usual place of residence, I think, should be struck.

Yeah. Yeah.

How about by emailing a copy through their email address? I mean, do they I'm just asking a question. Do you provide your email? Like, each person who is a council member has an email, right?

They have a city email. Yeah.

Yes. But in an age of communication, I would like to stress that we have more communication than we can usually deal with. And so I'm asking any of you, have you gone a day without checking your email? And the answer probably is yes. No.

Well, my case is. So reliance on email may work for some people, may not work for others. I think the clerk goes above and beyond and would call us probably if it if it were originated by the mayor or by somebody outside of a meeting. We have I don't recall that ever happening outside of a meeting. It's always been within a meeting, and so everybody is advised while we're there and and present.

But I think if it were requested by a member or the mayor, could be, or the president without everybody being involved in that decision, which is how we do it, then it could be a case where somebody's not I don't check my city email every day, for good or for bad. I I just don't do it. And so I'm just bringing that up as a reality that we have lots of forms of communication and some people see things on Facebook, some see them on Twitter, some see emails, some see other forms, push forms. Just like at one time it was assumed that you could get things from the website, but how many people were actually seeking information? We've learned that pushing information is much a stronger form.

Perfect.

Right? So just take that into consideration.

So I would say even I mean, one of the options there is we do post it on our website as well. So whenever there would be a special meeting, there's a notice of some sort that goes out, like you said. So not sure what else we would add there.

Like, my read of it is that especially the taking it to their residence. This is taking it to the residence if they are a subject that will be discussed at the meeting or if they is that am I reading that correctly?

No. This is written notice required by the section of a special meeting, I believe, is what it's referring to. Like, whenever

That there's each council member would guess Yeah, would be notified. So to me that means, like, that they want it delivered and kind of a confirmation of receipt. If that's an issue, that confirmation of receipt, maybe that should be noted. I don't know how to you know, like a read receipt in an email or a response back that I've received the email. If that's the intent of this section is to make sure that those members have been notified appropriately. That might be overkill. I don't know. I have no question. Yes,

right. Yes. I really do.

Yes. Right. Yes, that is what would happen.

Yeah, but if you had an email with Delivery. Confirmation receipt, and if I didn't get it back, then you'd call that Yeah. Confirmation receipt.

I think for simplicity's sake, you're just this is serving a requirement that you as the clerk are notifying the council members of a meeting. Therefore, if you did the email with a delivery receipt option, that's going to at least establish that you've met the requirements of delivering notice. Sure. You can also publicize it for the general public or whatever on the interim, you know, on the website. But I think this is just so that the members are aware of it. If each member has a city address, then that's a designated city email that they should be looking whether not twenty four hours, but at least at some point in time. And you could still call them as a courtesy, but that's not required of you.

Appreciate that, even though I wouldn't. So okay. So maybe adding email. So council member either personally or by email with read receipt, not less than twenty four hours striking by leaving a copy of thereof at their usual place of residence?

Yep. The only other option that may be easier would be that the clerk just certified they provided notice to council members, and that could be done orally or e mail, whatever means it is.

Okay. Up to you all.

And then the council member says, That's not true.

That's why we do a certification.

She's certifying it, but they're going to certify they never got the message.

Well, that's up to them. Yeah. It is. Alright. Because they could just say I didn't get the email or I didn't get the phone

call Well, you or prove they got

the email. Well, I mean, the the written thing now,

they could

just say I didn't get it.

That's

true. That's okay. But I still don't like the idea of just calling them and then her saying, I called everybody, because there's it just leaves you open to vulnerability. Sure.

I agree. I mean, I think if you have asked, for a receipt, least then if somebody doesn't send it back, then that's who you're calling. Right. Which is a and actually, I think if you ask for the confirmed receipt, there's less likelihood you're going to have that go to a spam folder or anything else as well. Yeah.

And you can be like Amazon when you drop them off at their residence. Can take a picture. I'm gonna send it to the that you were there. Personally,

I'd like to send mine with read receipt and delivery receipt confirmation, and then I also copy myself so I get a copy of the email that was sent out. So that's just overkill. But

I will say that I do get a copy of the emails that I send to city councils. So I do have that going already. Good. Yeah. To verify. So, okay. So I'm going to will add Just

to give some

And I will actually take a look just at our surrounding communities just to take a look at what how they have it written. But yes. I I like the email with re receipt. That would probably be okay. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Okay. So service of such notice may be waived by an instrument in writing signed prior to the hour of such meeting, and the mayor and council members shall be deemed conclusively to have waived such notice by their attendance at any such meeting. All regular and special meetings of council shall be held at the City Administration Building or at such other places in the city as council may direct, providing that notice of the change in locations shall be posted at the Administration Building no later than one hour prior to the meeting. Did it go on?

Good. Okay. So 4.9 is legislative procedures. A, we have quorum and rules. A majority of counsel shall constitute a quorum to conduct business, but a lesser number may adjourn from time to time and compel the attendance of absent members in such manner and under such penalties as may be prescribed by resolution or ordinance. Council shall adopt and publish in written form its own rules, regulations, or bylaws and shall keep minutes of all its proceedings. The rules, regulations, bylaws, and journals shall be open for public inspection at all reasonable times. The vote on any ordinance or resolution shall be by roll call, and the vote of each council member shall be recorded upon the journal of counsel.

Okay. This is my naivete. What what what is the Journal of Counsel?

So it's like the minutes.

Okay. That's what I would have guessed it to be?

Yeah. Separate? Nope. Just the minutes. Yeah.

We have resolutions and ordinances. All legislation or sorry. All legislative action of council shall be by resolution or ordinance introduced in written form whether electronic or printed. Each proposed resolution or ordinance shall contain no more than one subject, which which subject shall be clearly expressed in its title. This rule shall not apply to appropriation measures that are that contain the various subjects and accounts for which monies are to be appropriated and codification or recodification of ordinances and resolutions.

No resolution or ordinance shall be revised or amended unless the resolution or ordinance superseding it contains the entire resolution or ordinance as revised or amended or the section or sections so revised or amended. The original resolution or ordinance or sections thereof shall be considered to be repealed. An affirmative vote of a simple majority of the members of council shall be required for the enactment of every resolution or ordinance unless a larger number be required by the provisions of this charter. Every resolution and every ordinance shall be read at three different regular council meetings unless any or all readings are dispensed with by a three fourths vote of the members of council. Ordinances and resolutions shall be deemed to have been read if a written or printed copy of the ordinance or resolution shall have been furnished to each council member prior to its introduction and if the title thereof is fully read, provided that such ordinance or resolution shall be read in full if so directed by mow motion approved by affirmative vote of a simple majority of council.

Each resolution or ordinance providing for, one, the appropriation of money, two, improvements petitioned for by a majority of the owners of the adjacent property to be benefited and especially assessed therefore, Or three, any emergency resolution or ordinance necessary for the immediate preservation of public peace, health, welfare, or safety shall take effect unless a later date be specified herein therein upon its passage and approval by the mayor for upon the expiration of the time within which it may be vetoed by the mayor or upon its passage over veto by the mayor as the case may be. No other resolution or ordinance shall be shall become effective until thirty days after its passage and approval by the mayor or upon the expiration of tie of the time within which it may be vetoed by the mayor or upon its passage over vetoed by the mayor as the case may be. No action of counsel authorizing, one, the surrender or joint exercise of its powers, two, the granting of any franchise, three, the enactment, amendment, or repeal of any zoning or building resolution or ordinance, Four, an increase of utility rates. Five, the changing of any ward boundaries or any six, any change in the boundaries of the city shall be taken until a public hearing on said action shall have occurred no later than seven days before final enactment by counsel.

No retroactive utility rate increases shall be authorized by counsel. Any thoughts? Good. Good. C, committee deliberations.

All proposed ordinances and resolutions, except those of a purely ceremonial nature and those of a procedural nature, shall be referred by the president of council to one or more of the standing committees of council as appropriate to the subject matter unless this requirement is waived by a vote of two thirds of the members of counsel. The committees shall consider the proposed legislative actions separately and or jointly and shall report the recommendations to counsel for final disposition. The recommendations reported by such committees shall be in writing and shall be accompanied by the original documents, if any, upon which such report is based. Such report and supporting documentation shall be entered or referred to upon the Journal of Counsel. Gerard?

Do you think we that should be something we take a look at since that's not what actually occurs either?

You mean the written part?

Yeah. Well, when you Mhmm. So

I would be reporting on it, but should we change then? Because it says that the committee members so I would be doing it on their behalf, correct? Back in the '90s. They used

do their own We did our own minutes.

They don't do that anymore. Oh, really?

Not for it's been a while. Yeah. No, that's what we do. We have a form. It would be handwritten. Yep. But we the chair would take minutes of the meeting of the committee meeting, and then pass it along. If any votes were taken, you know, we document that the old fashioned way. So they give their committee reports, like,

in the meeting, orderly in meetings. So they do that, but it is certainly not in a written fashion. And I do their minutes on their behalf. So I'm not sure how I address that there.

There is an inconsistency.

Mhmm.

One of the things that I noticed when I joined counsel originally was that there wasn't always an official recommendation of that committee. We'd gotten away from that. So I've tried to reintroduce the practice of saying as the chair of that committee, instead of saying, We're going to bring this to vote, I will say, the concurrence of the committee, we're going to bring this to vote, and then I make them respond.

Right. That's what we did.

Right. But we'd gotten out of that practice because our council meetings are just somewhat of a form. I know. That's true. So it's just kind of a form. And if you attend them, you kind of pick up on it. And you have you never have a replacement of all the council people because of way we're voting. So there's always kind of this established thing. But somehow we'd gotten away from that recommendation of the committee. Right, Nicole? In fact, it will still happen sometimes. And I've tried to change the culture by just doing it that way. And you can see other committee people, other chairs will do the same. But it probably should be addressed because we are not doing it in writing.

Perhaps they should just refresh their recollection with the charter of what the requirement is.

Perhaps.

Perhaps.

I think a charter review commission is a great opportunity for that.

You do?

I do.

Okay. I think people should read the charter. I think the committee should follow the charter. And I don't know that we need to have a charter revision or a charter provision that was once adhered to that somehow fell by the wayside.

Well, I think clearly the clerk probably has a big role in that. In other words, if we were to submit something in writing, I have no doubt that it would come from her be sitting on our desks during committee and then handed to the appropriate person at the appropriate time. So I don't disagree. I don't I'm not saying the charter should be changed, but if we don't change the charter, we probably should reintroduce that what we did at one time when Councilwoman Conan was on council.

Back in the dark ages. Do you sit in

all the committee meetings? You can't possibly. No. So we now I'm not sure how it was before, but we have committees from five to Yeah, that's way we did it. Seven ish, depending And I'm there for all of that. And I take the minutes for the committee meetings as a whole. So essentially, I'm writing their recommendations down in minutes for all of the committees. They are not doing it themselves, but they do give a oral. So

Well, and think about it. Now the video is the record, and so you have that.

That's true.

Acknowledgment on video.

We were just starting videoing council meetings at that time. I don't believe we did the committee meetings at that time. That's probably true. Yeah. But we

were starting the council meetings. So now they're all video recorded and they're all But I

think if there's a vote in the committee, that vote should be recorded. Oh, it is.

They should vote it out. They don't ever vote during committee, though. I mean, they discuss it, and they come to an agreement. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

So we typically do everything on third reading. So in the first meeting that it's introduced, it's read in, no discussion. The second meeting's discussion, read in. Third meeting, it's just de facto that you're going to read it in. You're gonna discuss, kinda pick up loose ends from the last meeting, and then bring it to the Yeah.

The vote. And like I said, for a while the practice wasn't to formally bring it out of committee, but the rules do kind of require that. And so that's why we've tried I've tried to bring that back. And, Nicole, you can help me, really. You could say, I need to inform of a I need to inform of a recognition that two of the three members said, we're bringing it out. That would be helpful if you could then, for those who don't do it, kind of prod that through.

Yeah. And that's what we did. You know, who aye or aye getting it out of committee. So we could start doing that.

Okay. I don't know. Got some thoughts there. Okay. Yeah. So just to bring it forward that we don't currently do that either. So they they don't write do that in writing. But I could suppose there could be something to be said about the minutes that I do.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. If it's videotaped and we have written minutes from the clerk, okay. I have to think about that. I don't think we were we definitely weren't taping the committee meetings. I could almost count on that because I think we were just starting to get the council meetings taped, and we had kids doing it, which was great. They still do. Yeah. Perfect.

That's perfect. I'm going to highlight that just as a reminder to even I have

a question about this. It says report their recommendations, but it doesn't say the word written.

Recommendations reported Where's by bid write shall be in that part?

Okay.

Last paragraph. 13.

Okay.

And recorded. Mhmm.

It's not my opinion. I guess it would be those who are doing it, what their preference is. Because either way, the public's going to be able to see it. So I think you look at especially with AI now, too. I mean, things are going to change and evolve.

The issue, I think, is getting it like, you know, like Congress votes to get it out. I think that's the issue. And I don't know what I'm hearing, unless I'm misinterpreting this, there is no vote to move the legislation out of committee?

No, there's not. Okay.

So There's no motion

Yeah. Second.

Not a formal No. There's

There's a concurrence.

De facto thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Unless it moves out in three readings, that would be set because then it's been less

time. Right. Right. We've done it. You know, we've done it.

We have done it also.

Yeah. And we would record that as a vote. Yeah, okay.

And that definitely would

be recorded. Yeah.

Otherwise, what we have is just the chair says, okay, we're going to bring in the vote tonight. Probably should officially see that

Oh, yeah. Confirmation. Right. The committee

is Right.

That's why I was afraid to dance around the language, because if you're going to continue it and continue more readings and take more time, you know, do we really want to change this if there's extenuating circumstances that may happen with certain legislation.

You have to do it.

That's

I like that idea.

Yeah. But you wouldn't be taking that in your minutes too, would you?

You mean like an actual, like, vote or no? It would just be Okay. I mean, it would be summarized. Okay.

If it's recorded, though, that would cover all bases

Yeah.

Instead of the word writing. Yeah.

But it relies on them still having a formal Correct. Vote within committee. Not

through the charter of agent?

No. No. Process.

Our process, yeah.

Yeah.

As a reminder to the group. Okay. Alright. Thank you for that. So if any matter if any matter referred to committee has not been reported upon for two success of regular council meetings, such matter may be brought before council with or without an accompanying committee report upon the vote of a two thirds vote of the members of council. Nothing in this provision shall preclude any standing committee from proposing an ordinance or resolution on their own initiative. Intentional failure to follow this section pertaining to committees which results in gross abuse of corporate power shall invalidate any actions taken by the council as a whole.

Good? Good.

Okay. Port 4.1, emergency procedures a. Each emergency resolution and ordinance shall contain a statement of the necessity for such emergency action, and its enactment shall require the affirmative vote of three fourths of the members of council. B, no such action of council authorizing the surrender of or joint exercise of any of its powers to the granting of any franchise. Three, enactment, amendment, or repeal of any zoning or building resolution or ordinance, four, an increase of utility rates, five, the changing of any ward boundaries, or six, any change in the boundaries of the city be taken as an emergency measure unless authorized by a three fourths vote of the members of council.

Discussion? Anything?

Okay. Good. 4.11, Publication of Ordinance and Resolutions. Counsel shall have the power to determine the method of publication of its adopted ordinances and resolutions and of any other of its proceedings, which other proceedings it deems proper to publish. Some publications shall be by posting for a minimum period of two weeks the ordinance and resolution in at least five public places within the city, and the publication of a concise summary of the ordinance or resolution in at least any one newspaper of general circulation in the city once a week for two consecutive weeks.

Until such time as counsel provides for the method of publication, such public notice shall be given in the manner provided by the general laws of the state of Ohio. So, obviously, I sent you guys the suggestion on this one.

Discussion in terms of the timeframe, and I'm curious where you landed.

I feel like Nicole and I were on the same period where we wanted different forms of notice for publication.

Yep.

And I think Lisa was concerned with the cost, which I agreed with Lisa on the cost.

Sure. Yeah.

And I kind of felt like you could allow thirty days on posting on the website as a courtesy of getting it out there, but then keeping it to two weeks in a publication. Yeah. Kind of like that's kind of where I thought it was left.

Yeah. No, fine.

Because it's practical, yet you're also fulfilling that requirement for the publication.

Right. And I mean, I'm thirty days is great. I support that. Do you what would you suggest for, like, maybe in the case of, like, an emergency or something, like, language for that? I was kind of trying to come up with something.

Well, I know that sometimes there's not even, like, you guys go right into and you don't have the readings in certain emergency. So when you declare something in a regulation or an ordinance and you declare it in an emergency, I think then you can waive some of that requirement, Gerard, if that's kind of what's been done in the past.

Mean, we still end up when that occurs, we do still end up posting it for the normal amount of time. So it because it's usually after the fact. And so whether it's passed on first reading, second or third, it still usually gets the same. There's really not a lot of I I don't even really see there being an emergency situation where we need maybe more than thirty days or less, really. I think we could get away with it either way. So I don't know if that's a deal breaker. And even in

this part here, when something goes into effect, it'll go into effect thirty days later than you would Unless

it's passed as an emergency.

Right. So you're going to have that notification requirement. You can still post for the thirty days.

Yep. Yes. Just

wondering if you've ever seen a time when there's been less certain amount of time period. She's talking an emergency where we wouldn't have the traditional time period, if you've known of any time when you've done it. So

it's two weeks. So publishing it for a two week period after the resolution or ordinance has been passed. So

After it's been passed?

Correct. I think we've always been able to meet that deadline or that time frame in my experience.

So as

long as we're publishing a newspaper for two weeks and then posting on the website for thirty days, I think you're going have sufficient notice. I agree.

I think the rule is that, first of all, probably the majority of our legislation is emergency, which is hard for the public to understand sometimes. And it's probably not articulated very often that there are certain things that can't be emergency and everything therefore otherwise tends to be, which means you can take effect without that thirty day waiting period. And the charter specifies certain things that perhaps are more likely to receive some pushback, which would be increased utility rates, boundaries of elections, those sorts of things, which makes sense. So most things really fall under the emergency category. And then so we routinely run into problems because we don't have three fourths.

Three fourths means only one person can be gone. The math is that you can't have five of seven. You have to have six of seven present to move it out, and then they all have to vote in the affirmative. So last year we had problems frequently with getting things out when we wanted to because we were missing people a little more frequently than I like, right, or than we would all like. Yeah. So it's just the way we do business.

It's true.

It is.

So I did put up on the screen there just kind of what I had suggested for adding that electronic website equivalent to the notice. And then I think adding instead of fourteen, thirty days would be

in the bolder. Duo bolder.

I do the cab. Out in the front front lobby, there's a bunch of, little hanging baskets, and there's sections for Yep. Well, it used to be on, that tourney thing that was over here in the corner. That's where it used to be posted. So the problem with the five places within the city, so I wanted to expound on that, is that places don't have, like, the bulletin boards anymore for posting, and I we've really run into some trouble with that.

I used to send it out to, like, you know, dealers and things like that for them to post, and they don't they just don't do that. So I think by put posting it in the cab lobby there, makes it easy. People can just walk in, take a look at it, and then, obviously, then we've got the website, and we're putting in the paper. If you guys don't feel like that's enough notice, I'm happy to add something else. But I think getting a lot of communities.

So I did a little research and the following have gotten rid of that provision. Cleveland Heights, City of Oroville, City of Akron, City of Twinsburg, city of Lewisville. Like, it's just it's become very difficult, you know, because we're not in that paper day anymore, like, posting. So that was kind of why posting in the cab in a physical form is I think works best, but up to you guys.

No concerns? Mm-mm.

I'm not sure I understand, though. The ordinance is generally going to affect thirty days from passage, correct?

Correct.

So if we're saying it's available, not less than thirty days, is that what like it's available to see?

On the website?

Isn't it going to be like in accordance with our public records retention anyway?

Yes, it'll be there forever, honestly. But we do so on the city council web page, there's only so much space to add. So we do a month or two months or six months' worth, and then it goes into the archives. But it is always available, yes.

Okay.

But for immediate viewing

I got you.

Wouldn't have to search for it, you know? Okay.

Thank you. Yeah.

Your research was for publication?

Yes, who have added the electronic online. They've gotten away with actually, a lot of them have gotten away with actually physically putting it in the paper. Now, I don't want to do that necessarily. Like, I'm Okay with posting in our local paper. But in the event that they do go away, I don't want to have to go to like a bigger like, you know, can't repository or stuff because those are expensive. Like it's quite expensive.

I I would think between now and the next Charter Rescue Committee

Potentially gone. Would say going to probably change. He hates us. Yeah.

It's going

be harder and harder to find Definitely.

Publications

as For the circulation continues to

sure. So I was hoping to have both options. At least that gets us through to the next charter so we at least have the online equivalent electronic version.

K. Good.

I'm fine.

K. K. 4.12, clerk of counsel. The clerk of counsel shall be appointed by counsel and shall serve at the pleasure of counsel. The clerk of counsel shall keep the journal of counsel an accurate and complete record of all proceedings of counsel, authenticate by their signature and have custody of all laws, ordinances, and resolutions of counsel, have custody of all official documents, reports, papers, and files of counsel, and perform perform other such duties as counsel shall require.

The clerk may also hold another municipal appointed office within the classified or unclassified service of the city, but shall not hold any municipal elective office while serving as clerk of counsel. During the temporary absence or disability of the clerk of counsel, counsel shall by affirmative vote of a simple majority of its members appoint a like qualified individual to perform the duties of that office. Comments? Good. Nope?

Okay. 4.13 compensation and bonds. Council shall fix the compensation of the mayor, members of council, and each office and employee or member of any board or commission of of the city, whether elected or appointed, except as specifically otherwise provided in this charter, not less than thirty days prior to the final date for filing nominating petitions for the primary election in years of regular municipal election, counsel shall fix the compensation of the mayor and all members of counsel for the two year period commencing January 1 of the following year. Such compensation shall not thereafter be changed with respect to such period. Neither the mayor nor any council member shall benefit from an increase in compensation while serving within the term of the office in which an increase was approved.

The compensation of every other officer, employee, and member of any board or commission of the city as fixed by council may at any time be changed by ordinance or resolution of council. The mayor, finance director, and such other officers, employees, or members of any board or commission as council may require shall give bond in such amount and with such surety as may be approved by council. The premium on such bonds shall be paid by the city.

How much do council members make

these days? So council members make 8,000 a year, and the president makes 9,000. They also receive health care Yeah.

Through the city. Yeah. So that is Has counsel ever thought about changing that? Of course not.

Yes.

Oh, okay. Good.

I brought it up last year.

Didn't work. It didn't go well. Well, what's the health care thing is I realize the history on that. That's always been, a negative in my mind. I don't think that we should be providing that for part time kind of counsel people.

But that's the personal opinion, so that's neither here nor there. What do we pay for counsel people to be insured?

Well, that can vary if you get

Family, single, blah blah blah. Yeah.

I

mean, I can get you some actual numbers, but it is I mean, care is It's significant benefit, I

would say. Yeah. Yeah.

When did the insurance provision I mean, it always been there? Is that something

No, it's not always been there and it happened It's

a long time, though.

It's What?

We never had it. No. We did not have health care.

I think the original one was pretty far back. Let's see here.

I know what it I know I know where that came from, and I'm not happy about it. But we did not have it, and I don't remember when he was on council to tell you when that happened. It might be like a long time. That'd be

interesting to hear the story. Maybe it's not the right Sunday. But when I was on council,

I was ineligible to receive it

because the current administration had decided that if you could give me

insurance elsewhere 2002.

Oh, okay.

What was the date?

2002. Just pulled it up.

2002. Resolution. Yep. Interesting. So the interpretation of that administration was

Yeah. It's maybe just by virtue of this forum, people realize that we're spending probably $20,000 a person, depending on a health care, for their counsel people to have health insurance, which, you know

What would be typical or best practice for a city a council person in a city our size?

I don't care about best practices.

No, no, just curious what it is.

I just so part time gig.

So I will say that when I was when drug had that legislation, I did some research regarding this matter, and it is not common to offer health care

to That's what I would think.

It's pretty uncommon. So it's pretty few That's

what I would guess. That's why I was curious.

State of Ohio defines health insurance eligibility if you work thirty hours or more in a certain but you can exempt from that requirement if you're a salaried position. And I think that's how they're getting through because it's they get that set salary, so then they vote it in contractually and allow it.

Yes.

Yeah, you would. Yeah.

So if we wanted to if somebody wanted to change that, you would have to repeal this piece of legislation.

Interesting. Okay.

Yep. So there's that.

Right. I digress. Sorry about that. Okay. 14.

Okay. 4.14, franchises. Council may by ordinance grant an exclusive franchise to any person, firm, or corporation to construct or operate a public utility on, across, under, or above any public street or public real estate within the city for a period not to not in excess of twenty five years. Council may prescribe in any such ordinance the kind or quality of service or product to be furnished, the rate or rates to be charged thereup therefore, and such other terms as it shall deem beneficial to the public interest. The right of counsel to grant such franchise shall be limited by the provisions of section 4.9 and section point 4.1 of this charter.

Such franchise may be amended or renewed in the manner and subject to the provisions established here for original grants. All such grants, amendments, and renewals shall be made subject to the continuing rights of the council to provide reasonable regulations for the operation of such utilities with reference to such streets and public real estate, including the right to require such reconstruction, relocation, alteration, or removal of structures and equipment used in such streets or public real estate as shall in the opinion of counsel be required by the public interest.

I have a question on this. We're doing currently T Fibers, putting fiber in. Would that fall under

Mobile hit. It's It's T a

It's

a

hit.

Okay. So it's not a T franchise. Got it. What

franchises do we have anymore? I'm curious. It used to be cable, but I don't know if we

still have cable.

We're getting payments from three different companies for cable every quarter.

Those really aren't franchises, are they? I mean, we're talking twenty five years. I remember the old cable contracts, we always had to approve every twenty five years or whatever. But I don't think the sewer is going to be there's going to be some supremacy and I think water too.

Mark's cable was my first cable carrier.

Yeah. I remember that. Unbelievable. All right. Thank you for clarification. Appreciate it.

So is franchise still is that still the right word to use?

Yeah, I'm wondering if it's becoming obsolete.

Yeah. It sounds like that's maybe not quite applicable. I don't

know what the right word is. And then I have a question. What about cell towers? Because are we granting the rights for certain cell towers in the city or we

The feds have complete control over that. We can't do can only zone like how they look. We can't do anything else really. Yeah, I've been through

that. Because I

would think that would be more of a concern than the cable. This could be obsolete.

That's why I was wondering if there was some kind of existing agreement that we still had out there that and I don't know if that may have been may be the case, I don't know, that we don't want to turn away somebody that's paying money. Well, as Sharon noted, we're still getting in our communications front, we're still getting, I think, about $70 a year Well, are any of the cell towers sitting on city property where they're paying a franchise fee every month or a fee? Yes. Okay. Is that going in your communication budget?

Yes. Telecommunication.

From the cable providers to

pass on a

fee for us.

Yeah. To my knowledge, we don't get any money for cell towers. I do the receiving. So I've never

So we do.

I don't think it's like a monthly thing. I think it's at that time they pay the fee, and it's like a one time when they upgrade it. Wow. When it because when we were in planning, my for that.

I think law would be the perfect place.

So we can add it to our

Okay.

Law Director questions. And then maybe we just hold do we add it

So sell it.

Update or eliminate And that

I wouldn't recommend getting rid of it because this is what pays for the telecommunications equipment and the students and their supervisors who do film. That's where the money comes from.

She's not wrong.

Yeah, the franchise fees.

I can have that fund.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

Thank you. Whether or not you should

have it.

Yeah, we can It's Yeah, if you can

get it.

Complicated maybe. Section is 4.15, and it's council relationship to administrative officers. So neither council nor any of its committees nor any of its several members shall in any manner take part in the discipline of or give orders to any subordinates and employees in the administrative service of the city responsible to the mayor, but must deal directly with the mayor. Council may inquire into the conduct of any office or department and into the performance of any contract or any of the affairs of the city.

What if counsel wants to do an investigation into something that they feel is untoward, that's part of like the mayor's one of their directors. How is that conducted?

So I believe they still so if it's one of the directors of the mayor, they still have to go to the mayor to let him know that they want to.

Does the mayor then have to do something or he could just say or she could just say, No, that's not going to happen?

I mean, I feel like they're more just to notify them that they're going to maybe look into that director or if they want the mayor to reprimand that director, then obviously suggest something. But I think counsel still has the ability to go forward.

Do you

know when that was added? I don't see a reference here. Don't know if that was the original.

It must be the original because anything amended has a note.

It doesn't to your point, what I can't do as a councilman is go to a director and say, I need you to do this or or direct something to happen. I don't think it addresses this

one. Yeah.

In fact, it does say you may inquire, but I think it just makes it clear that you

don't think it addresses.

Okay. That's the last one in that section

Old business, I mean, we're carrying all those things that we've talked about. And again, I think our best interest to continue to deposit list at some point, at a later point, go through there, prioritize, especially if we have a lot of stuff, what do we really want to put forward? Do we want to back off of some? Unless anybody has any other discussion or no bids, I'm just going to leave that on there for now. Forward to the next meeting. Yes?

Yes.

Second. I agree.

Okay. Motion to adjourn.

I'll move to adjourn. Second.

Call the roll.

Ms. Conan? Yes. Ms. Yenko? Yes. Mr. Dufferin?

Yes.

Mr. Knapp?

Yes.

Ms. Quorrell? Yes. Okay. Motion carries.