Planning and Economic Development Committee - Regular Meeting

Good morning. It is Wednesday, June 3rd. It's time to call to order the regularly scheduled design review or meeting. Everybody, please rise and do the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation,

Mindy, can you call the roll?

Mr. Dybul. Here. Mr. Dodavich is absent. Mr. Pickett. Here. Mr. Wheatley. Here. Mr. Glassner. Here. Mr. Wartko.

Here. All right, first up is approval of the May meeting minutes. Do we have a motion? I'll make a motion. Okay. I'll second. All right, got a motion and a second. Anyone want to call the roll? I'm good. Okay. All right, first up is new business items here. So we'll item 2619, Akron's finest mulch ID sign. Please come up, present your project.

I'm here to get approval for the front landscaping project for our new satellite facility on Massillon Road, 4590 Massillon Road. Would you guys like me to start with the sign or the front entrance, or what do you want to see first?

Let's start with the sign. If you want to put it out and lay it right on that blue dot up there.

There we go. So that is the front entrance sign that is going down by the road. It is a double-sided sign, culture stone, concrete base, cedar columns. It is a hard foam CNC sign. It's double-sided. So just calling it out because there was a little confusion I saw in the email. We're doing two separate signs conjoined together. It's not one sign double-printed. You can see we have a sandstone 4590 address in the column there that will be on both sides. This sign has an annual bed underneath of it that will be changed yearly with a perennial and shrub bed that surrounds it.

clarify how the sign itself is mounted to the, whether it's to the brick or to the stone?

Yeah, so it's going to be mounted to the top beam, and it's going to be used, it's going to be, there's two beams actually on the top, and it's going to be sandwiched in the middle with wood. It's not shown in that picture. I have another example depicting that, but that's kind of how it's going to be mounted. It could be mounted by chain, by metal, but I just figured wood probably looked the most cohesive to the whole project. So you can see there with the wood. I think that looks best. We have an outline of the plants we're using, a few landscape boulders. We would like uplighting on the sign. There was a question about glare, about people driving by. It's landscape lighting. It's low voltage, as it would just be similar to what you have around your house. But we also have these glare lenses that we could put on the top of the lights as well, which I have depicted to further down in the packet.

Wait, is this also looking at the split rail fencing, landscaping at the front, too? Yeah, we can...

They've got a gate, and I think... Did they clarify the location of the gate?

I believe you said it was going to be... Matthew, you emailed me.

It's 50 feet off the edge of the road. We saw the gate on there, but we didn't see a distance or a location or the reference to a gate. So the question was, we want to make sure that... I don't know if you have... Not big, but at least the trailer or something that comes in is getting off mass on the road before they activate the gate or get to the gate. That's all.

Yeah, so in general, the gate will stay open during the day. It's mostly just for like a nighttime, like when we're not there, it shuts. Also, I think it just looks better. But yeah, I agree. Sometimes, you know, our semis are 28 feet long, 34 feet long, plus the cab of the semi, which is 15, 20 feet. So we want to make sure that in the case of there's a semi there and the gate is closed, that it doesn't stick out for the road as well.

So I guess to answer the other question, it's all about the front landscaping. But the sign is really the subject here. They could do some of that landscaping themselves. Got it.

OK. And then there's kind of like the overview. We're doing some columns, some split rail fencing. It was requested that we do some coverage along where the parking lot is going, which would be those streets right there. We're putting those in additionally. We have some pine trees, some green giants. We've called it out on the design. There's going to be a split rail fence in between the mounding. I thought that just kind of looked the nicest. We have the columns that roll into the gate there. We're doing culture stone, which will be the same culture stone that is around the building. Do you want to see the fencing or anything like that, or we're good? Let me see that here. We have a, here's the split rail fencing with the culture stone.

This is the type of sign it's going to be.

It's HUD. It's like a really hard foam. And the CNC, it's a nice sign. We use these a lot on other projects, and they've held up well. So we figured, why not use it on our own?

Yeah, no, I think it all looks really good. I'll make a motion for favorable recommendation to planning. I'll second. Got a motion and a second. Mindy, you have the roll.

Mr. Glessner.

Yes.

Mr. Wartgoe. Yes. Mr. Pickett. Yes. Mr. Weedy. Yes. Mr. Dybul. Yes.

All right. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Yep. All right. Next item on the agenda here is item 261, the chapel community room. Please come up to the stand up here, introduce yourself, and let us know your project complies with our standards.

I'm Sarah Johanson with Prime AE, one of the architects.

Joe Schaefer, executive director of the Chapman Green. Charlie Justice, I'm the director of facilities.

I see the handheld mic works there, too, if you guys want to be helping.

Thank you.

one of the things we were asked to bring was a masonry sample and we're trying to not cut ourselves um there's the uh yeah the masonry the concrete block and it would be somewhere in between this texture and the flat texture we weren't able to get it it's come this is a split face and then i would that would be a little bit um less texture with ground face yeah can we go back to the project oh that's what you're doing yeah sure um

So maybe lay out the site plan up here so you can maybe present that, show it on screen, and then maybe walk through some of the elevation plans.

It's a community room addition, about a 400-person space, and associated warming kitchen and restrooms. and we're gonna make a nice easy drop off to the proposed addition right there. Then I'll find a floor plan.

We are also adding two outside access bathrooms for the properties as well.

Thanks.

Yeah, here's a little bit better site plan. And then here is kind of a new entrance.

So this entrance is on this whole community center. Where is it located and how big is it?

It's about 6,000 square feet of an addition.

It's on the east side of our property. Directly, we currently have a basketball court in that space, so our door D, which is again directly east, it extends that building that direction. Thank you.

And it provides a space for smaller events. The sanctuary is quite large. And the existing atrium, which doesn't have good acoustics, has been their other space for smaller events. So this is going to give them a much more enclosed and better acoustic performing space for that. So here's the new entrance, the new outdoor facing restrooms. the main community room to hold about 500 people. And then, yeah, vestibule and kind of the pre-function slash corridor space. Restrooms dedicated to the new space and a warming kitchen. technology closet and storage and then we've worked in an emergency exiting between the new addition and the existing building and there will be exterior wise This is what the exterior looks like. It's kind of going to be very, very close to matching all the existing aesthetics of the existing building, including the brick patterning. And so this wider masonry is that piece down there. And then these bricks are a combination of mostly this for the field and then this for the accent pattern. And then there were some concerns about where the HVAC may be located. Let's see. I think I have it. I'll start with the roof plane, and then I'll go back to that 3D view that shows it the best. Here we go. Yeah. So here's the new entrance, the new outdoor facing restrooms, the main space. And we managed to get all the HVAC on a much lower roof behind the taller main space. So it's going to be very, very much blocked without having to do any special screening. And we added a view on one of these sheets that shows that even better. This is kind of a section cut from the tall space and then the low space behind there that has HVAC on it. But then this 3D view also shows how difficult that is to see.

On the warming kitchen side, is it just a warming kitchen, so no appliances or anything like that?

Yes, just a warming kitchen.

Okay. There wouldn't be any big exhaust fans or units, those sorts of things?

It's going to be auxiliary to the main kitchen. The main kitchen is still going to be used for those things, and this is for either catering or church members who bring crock pots or bring things down from the main kitchen.

We're looking to add a 400-person capacity space that we could segment from the rest of the church. So inside of that entry, we've got another set of lockable doors, so we can have standalone events in the space. It's got an outside patio as well. Just looking for a way to expand the ministry of the church and also bless the community. We do a lot of hosting of large things for the community, and so this would be a great fit for us without opening up the entire building and the issues that might come with that.

As far as the parking capacity is on the site, I mean, adding uniform person space is the intent of these would be used i guess not have big events going on in both locations. Right, no.

I would imagine during services, you're not having farm people in the community room.

Right, and on a Sunday morning, this would be used, but it would be part of the group that's already there for the rest of the... And on a Sunday, we typically have maybe 2,500 people in the building, and the current parking has been more than sufficient. One of our lots we barely use during Sunday, so we should be in good shape there.

The restrooms that are... Are they only available for outdoor?

No, there's an interior set. It's a double door? Yeah, interior set is specifically different for the properties, and then the exterior is outfacing. We've just extended a lot of the property sort of amenities, and we want to make sure that we... You have fields for youth sports?

Yeah, I have all sorts of fields. Is that what the intent is? Is that the intent for some of the youth sports or the walking or whatever? Yes, yes, yep.

Yeah, currently we've got four to five, but we'd love to have something a little more permanent.

So yes, these are the dedicated outdoor ones. They have a door both outside and inside. And then these are the ones that are sized to serve the new space.

The interior doors there are for our custodial crew to be able to access them in bad weather and keep them clean and ready for use.

Can you talk maybe a little bit about the drop-off area at the front? So just looking at the... claim the drop-off and how you have the kind of that striped area that continues the called the circular walkway around I guess why not just direct folks along like the I guess the offset sidewalk just kind of just curious yeah I guess now that we're looking at looking at it again could you say that again yeah so you've got the ADA striping that continues the and the walkway across the drive drop off area, I guess why not just direct folks along the actual, the walkway as opposed to kind of getting this split between the ADA parking spots and kind of follow, I know you guys had some, there were some comments about just concerns with maneuverability into this area with the ADA spots and just having sort of striping up there. If there was any way to more sort of define just the parking separately at the walkways.

I think you're just trying to make it as accessible as possible. And this was our civil team's response to that. We're trying to make that a very easy entrance where people can get really close for drop off and accessibility and unloading things as well.

Right, and the desire, so we host a special needs group during the week, and we have a very strong special needs ministry, and this is an entry that we anticipate they would use quite a bit, and so we prioritized access and accessibility here. If your question's specific to striping across the sidewalk, I would defer to her. I'm not sure on that. I just know that our desire was to have a very easy in and out for people with special needs, and also elderly and anyone with accessibility concerns.

We talked about the one space possibly might be Conflict with it just seems like it's in conflict me with where this we're egresses back to the parking lot there So the southern most the ones in the middle there up against yeah, so the southern most of those And guess I should just look like it's maybe They've lived in conflict with that emotionally.

So if you're not that and they were turning left, would that be your concern regarding a car parked in that spot? Yeah. I mean, we're by no means married specifically to the location. Just a thought, yeah. Certainly, you know, all that change. So you just prefer that the striping, we not have a space there, but just have good access back into the parking lot from that entry? Yeah. Yeah, that's no problem.

I mean, there's others. Yeah. Or wait, there's others. Can you go maybe go back to the elevations I'm going to start to look at the brick and materials and I'm looking at the image at least here There seems to be a lot of other You know decorative colors or striping within the bricking are you intending to? mimic any of that or within that be just a straight blend for that field brick I

It would match. The striping doesn't show up in this 3D view. I'll go back to the elevations. It's intending to mimic the existing materials, including the striping, which shows up right here.

Oh, there it goes.

Okay. So I think basically you're carrying the same exterior appearance all the way around, even with the new addition. It'll just blend in, and you're able to get the same materials so far?

So far we are, yes. And Hammond Construction has helped us get these samples here.

Does that kind of answer that?

It does, yes. Okay.

So it'll look almost continuous, and it'll look like it's...

This is the accent brick. Yeah. It's the dark color.

That was one of the 3D views which didn't have that on the flatulations, too. Yeah, it's all good. Yep.

You don't have to bring that back out. No, we're good. It's okay. It's okay. I just put it where they can see it, yeah.

Yeah, I don't know.

With that one handicap, you got nine on that side. Do you think that's going to impose any conflict? I mean, I don't want to take one away, but the other one is we also want to make sure that you don't have a conflict.

We could see our civil engineers' feedback on that as well, if you don't want to make a final decision within this room. Either way.

I mean, they're not going to maintain what they currently have. If you look at the existing? Yeah.

Well, I'm just, yeah. They mentioned about certain events that would lead me to believe that those nine are filled up, okay, pretty easily. And we don't want to tell you to take one away if you need them. But yeah, we also just try to advise you of maybe a conflict. Right.

I mean, we do have, I see some spots up a line there towards the top that, you know, we could add. We certainly want to accommodate.

Okay. I mean, you know your UC better than we do. Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, that makes a difference. Just ask your civil team to take a look at it, and if these guys are okay with it, then you can present that to the planning commission that you did look at it. That works? Does that work for everybody? Yeah, that works for me.

And the only other comment here was the the wheel stop detail on see you wanted to just make sure like it's revised to match current code The top left show that it's six feet long I think if you're the top after the sheet there I Is it seven feet? Yeah.

What are you looking for?

The detail shows it is six feet. It's supposed to be eight per code. It's just a housekeeping thing. Eight foot. Wheel stop. That's all. Wheel stop.

Okay. That's all. Sure. Okay.

Questions? No. Okay.

Yeah, the only other comments whether or not a crane to use for the facility and whether or not FAA clearance would be required so coordinate with your contractor and Put it this way if you get a crane out there and they're lifting like a AC unit on the roof or something You might want to work with the airport have and and some of these directors. I'm using that word They know that but you may have to remind them about the airspace

I'll make a motion for a recommendation of playing zoning With the just a few recommendations of revising the wheel stop detail to eat foot long stops instead of six Just have your civil investigate the handicap space for the turning out of the drop-off drive and just verify with your contractor and regarding crane usage and according to the FAA for airspace regulations.

I'll make a second.

A motion and a second?

Mr. Glassner?

Yes.

Mr. Portco?

Yes.

Mr. Pickett? Yes. Mr. Wiese? Yes. Mr. Eibel?

Yes. All right. Thank you all. Thank you. All right, with item 2622, Dairy Queen, please come up and present your project, introduce yourself, and what kind of project complies with our standards.

Hello, I'm Josh Drummond.

I'm a project manager with David Plougan Architects. Carl Warther with Dairy Queen. I own the property.

I'm Per Warther with Dairy Queen. I also own the property. Would you like kind of a brief overview? Yeah, please. So this is part of a larger master plan. This is phase one sourcing approval for the new Dairy Queen. This site is 1.47 acres. Um, the building itself is about 2900 square foot. We've got 35 parking spaces. The seating inside building is 4046. We have a patio area.

Could you grab the handheld mic?

As far as the drive-throughs, we've got three windows. We've got a big window, main drive-through for pickup window, and a secondary pickup window when needed. In addition to this phase one site, we have a green space to the north that we're looking for, just kind of a community area. And we have a proposed patio area with landscaping around it for for the community or for those using the site. Landscaping will prevent those at the circle area from crossing the site just for fear of interfering with drive-through traffic, but we have a main connection to the Dairy Queen at this access point here with the striping, and then they would use the main front entrance. As far as the exterior, I guess an enlarged view of the restaurant area itself. So here we have the, sorry, I apologize color. We've got the main entrance facing Massillon Road. We've added brick at all, all facades, all over the minimum. masonry percentage requirement So the darker color is kind of Is the darker brick and we don't have samples with us, but we can we can provide those But the darker area is kind of the darker brick and we've got the accent lighter brick These other areas we have a little bit of Ephus on the south entrance And these areas and on the drive through side, which is the north elevation, it's kind of in these pockets here and then a little bit on the on the back back of the building. But as you can see, most of it is is masonry. That kind of puts the, I guess the summary you want to move into the. Comments from the staff report, or do you have any questions on?

I have a question. Sure. So you're going to put a driveway on Madeline road. And you're going to turn into this entrance in your, where's your. Carry out port spot on what side of the building.

I'm sorry, what was that?

Where's your you have a Carryout window is that right?

Yes. Yeah, it's on the north side.

So so you're gonna wrap around the building. Yes. So how many cars is that?

as far as the for like sacking yes, I know we're Because I assume this driveway in the future is gonna have other things The cars will be off the driveway

Looks like you're showing 18 spots 18 Yeah, so yeah, we got 18 cars from the major up pickup window to the Yes

ALLOWING.

I NEVER THOUGHT SEVEN BREW WOULD HAVE 500 CARS. WHEN IT'S A CAR WASH DAY AND SEVEN BREW COFFEE DAY, YOU CAN'T GET UP THAT ROAD.

THESE GUYS ARE VERY EFFICIENT.

MOST OF OUR BUSINESS IS AT 5 P.M., SO WHAT WOULD ALL THE

Could you share the mic, maybe?

So most of our business comes in after 5 p.m. So as far as stacking goes, most of that stacking would be in the evening, which, depending on what else is on the site, would be less than, you know, restricted on that street. So it would be very unlikely that our cars, given all our other stores we have in the area, to have that many cars on a lot of times. It would be very rare.

So the overall concept, just for the board, was that there's three potential lots here, one being the Dairy Queen, one being another site to the north, fronting Madison Road and Burgess Drive, and then another one towards the rear. Preferably, in a planned development concept, it was maybe an office building that would have different hours than, well, not different hours, but... less conflict hours than a Dairy Queen or any type of drive-through. We're not sure that's gonna happen. There's a tentative user for that back area, which is office. So I think, Tom, your comment about, they do meet our stacking requirements, and they are, so to speak, wrapping around their own building, and hopefully should not come out onto that drive. It's a great day for Dairy Queen if they're coming out to that drive. They're giving away ice cream, I guess. I don't know. Let me know what day that is.

Any other questions? This landscape is, I think, the most current. I sent this, kind of picking up some of the comments yesterday. I don't think there was anything... that we had disagreements with as far as the staff recommendations. I also want to point out to the, in the elevations, all the signage that's shown, that'll be addressed separately. So it's there for reference, but we'll pursue that through a separate submission. There were some comments on the staff report as far as additional landscaping around the perimeter of the green space. And we're open to doing that. We haven't created a plan to show that yet.

We printed that, submitted the revised plan for landscaping to you guys this morning. So they submitted that and That addresses my earlier comments about the landscaping, which is number three, four, and five. So they did provide the street edge screening. I note that it's three feet, six inches. That proposed plan includes the calculation table showing compliance with the required tree shrubs and interior landscaping area. And based on that revision, I do find that earlier landscaping code concerns have been addressed. But there are other concerns that I still want to point out. Number one, the dimensions of the mastodon road and the PD entrance road that needs to be shown on the plans.

So that yes dimension here was added So it's a it's 39 feet inches at the throat at the right-of-way line Feel free to grab the other four inches and make it wide enough so here you have a 40 foot allowance, so I mean number just what we'd prefer to do is see that See the third of that be able to take delivery trucks and whatnot right okay?

And then civil can be updated to show that as well.

Yeah.

Any other questions?

Do you know the overall mystery percentages? Yeah, they're noted.

88.

Let's see. So the north, or sorry, the main entrance, the west elevation, we're at 88% masonry, 12% EFIS. Moving to the, I guess, the east, the back side of the building, we're at 61% masonry, 39% EFIS. South elevation, we are 75% masonry, 25% EFIS. And then the north drive-through side is 62 percent masonry and 38 percent Ephesus I Think actually that's probably Dimensions I think the masonry percentage increases And I'm regarding the colors then so then you don't have them you kind of describe them is it like beiges grays and yes, so the dark is So the dark is described as a field gray, but it's, yeah, it's more like a kind of a darker, darker blue. Okay. And the lighter brick is like an oatmeal color. Yep. Other deer queens have used that color. We just need to confirm that they're comfortable with that exact shade. But we can get those samples and provide them.

Okay.

The EFIS colors are fairly lighter, and we can provide those as well, but I would say they're both kind of in the beige-ish family. One's lighter, one's darker. So at the main entrance, that's kind of the darker EFIS color, but it's still in my team.

Ask any other questions? Trash enclosure, is it a masonry as well to match the building? Yes.

There's elevations on C1.

Yes, we'll have a darker band to match the base of the building. It's all brick with some soldier course accents. And then the... The front gates will be, I think we were looking at like a Trex material to match the building.

With that, guys, any other questions? I'll make a motion for a favorable recommendation to planning zoning. I believe all the staff recommendations have been met.

Except for the signage.

Except for the signage will need to be submitted under a separate package. Yeah. I'll second.

Mr. Glassner? Yes. Mr. Wartko? Yes. Mr. Pickett? Yes.

Mr. Dybul? Yes.

Thank you. Thank you, John. All right, then moving on to some unfinished business, so item 2614 for an express gas station.

Good morning. Good to see you again. Jim Presuto, project architect, Four Points Architectural Services. If it's all right, I'll just do a brief recap of our previous discussion a month ago, roughly, in front of this board. The intent is to renovate and use the site of the existing Rite Aid at the corner of South Main and 619. and to create a new gas station and a new convenience store with about a little less than half of the building being set aside for future tenant space. So this is the original survey of the property. Just to kind of reiterate the intent and desire of our client is to put the gas station function and convenience store facing Turkey Foot so it has prime kind of real estate facing the intersection from a business standpoint. They felt that that was their best bet and it was comments from our last meeting that kind of Justify and show that the circulation patterns would work around the new canopy gas pumps That we provide enough parking for the current space For the proposed convenience store as well as the future tenant space And so that's where most of our revisions came in into play so this is kind of the updated site plan that reflects those changes and We also had some additional civil work done, especially on the using an auto turn program to show that vehicles can come in and use the facility, circulate around the building, around the new gas pumps, that a tanker truck can get in and fill the in-ground supply tanks for the gas station, and that deliveries can be made on the property while all kind of functioning as it should. So probably the biggest changes came up in the front here We did expand the pavement about foot towards Turkey foot just to buy a little additional circulation Around canopy and the pumps and our biggest change probably came in with the parking down here in the southwest corner Originally we were trying to reuse the existing parking spaces that were here Um, but to gain some additional circulation space, we just kind of continue this 10 foot setback that we established with these new parking spaces down into the corner further to push those parking spaces further away from the canopy from the gas pumps. Um, and from the tanks and ground tanks themselves. We also, on the back side of the building, there was a request to show that there is enough room for additional parking to satisfy this future tenant space. Without increasing hard surface or impermeable surface on the property, because of the width of this original drive, there was an existing, or is an existing, drive-through area that served the Rite Aid. So, if we demo that we can add parking along the backside of this building, and that would get us account that would accommodate this full square footage building as far. If it was all retail, there is no future tenant selected at this point. So we at least wanted to be able to present something that showed we can accommodate this building as is as a retail use. I know our parking counts for the gas station and the convenience store, I believe 20 were required. We're providing 24 in front of the building and to the west side here. And then we're providing an additional 18 spaces in the back. So that's 42 spaces. I believe 37 would be required if this was a single retail or multiple retail tenants. So that was an additional change that we made. One of the other issues that we addressed in this revision was as far as the stacking space is required for a drive-through window. I guess I wanted to reiterate that the drive-through window is not intended to be for on the spot prepared meals. Originally, we were showing eight spaces, but they wrap around the back and kind of limited us as far as parking requirements for the rest of the building. So we're looking at six stacking spaces for this particular drive through window that kind of falls under the other category in your regulations as only regulations. They're 10 by 20 spaces. Again, it is only for prepackaged pickup, drinks, beverages, prepackaged food items, pre-prepared food items, tobacco products, whatever they might have at the point of sale here inside the store. So if we can be permitted to have the six stacking spaces, there is no intercom, speaker, menus, ordering location. It's all pull up to the window, request your items, and pull out. But by going to the six stacking spaces, that allowed us to kind of island off this back. parking area there is physical space that would allow us to wrap two more parking stacking spaces back here but we would have to sacrifice at least a couple parking spaces to accommodate that As far as site coverage and permeable surface, we're just under the limit of 75% coverage for the site. We're right around between 73% and 74% with this current layout. So that's with somewhat added hard surface drive area up here and the parking spaces on the west side. We did get rid of some existing sidewalk along here to make that a permeable landscape bed. As well as adding some landscaping and permeable surface at the front of the building as well We that was also another reason why we didn't want to touch there is a lawn space in the back here That we did do a quick study to see if we could get additional parking If needed we could probably get another 18 parking spaces back there But we would exceed the 75% coverage for impermeable surfaces if we proceeded in that direction Just from an aesthetic standpoint, these are our current civil drawings. Since we're going through this, these were the auto turn studies done for the property. The two primary and worst case scenario items that we wanted to look at was a vehicle towing a trailer for boats potentially in this area and the ability to get in and around the gas pumps. Um, so we're showing both an entry coming off of South main onto the property through the canopy and back out on the Turkey foot as well as coming in off the Turkey foot going through the canopy and the exiting out. On South main, so we feel that that comfortably shows that that is a feasible and and a possible thing without much disruption, at least from that kind of worst case scenario. Obviously your standard. Vehicles should have no issues kind of working in and around the canopy And we also show those going to the center pumps because we again thought that would be the worst case scenario We should have a lot more room to maneuver around the perimeter pumps on this particular auto turn study it was to show that we have access for a tanker truck and So in this scenario the truck would pull in off a turkey foot back into this spot along the south side of the parking drive area and access the tanks from that location. Per the owner they come a couple times a week usually half an hour to 45 minutes to unload the tanker. So minimal conflict with their everyday business. So that was kind of our study to show that there is accessibility for this site for the various vehicles that would need to access it. We also, after our most recent submittal, did get some stormwater calculations done and I think sent over for review. Right now we're showing underground water detention to accommodate the stormwater conditions of the site. I think the original design had a much deeper kind of ditch trough along that front corner to accommodate stormwater, but I don't think it was ever built that way, so this should accommodate existing conditions plus the additional surface materials, impervious materials that we're adding to the site. From a landscaping standpoint, not much has changed from our original submittal. The intent is there's some existing deciduous trees at the front of the property facing Turkey Foot. We're just going to formalize those with mulch beds and add some lower plantings to accent those. We're adding some miniature boxwoods along the front of the building to add some greenery. As well as the west side of the building, we're getting rid of the existing sidewalk, making that a landscape bed. Combination of evergreens, small evergreen shrubs, viburnum, that type of thing, just to add a buffer to that side of the building as well. One item that was asked of us at the last meeting was where the pedestrian entry is off of South Main. That we accent that, kind of create a gateway landscaping wise. We're proposing to use kind of this all narrow arborvitae to kind of frame that entry as well as some small miniature boxwoods. So it's an evergreen gateway, in a sense, without creating an obstruction for view of anybody traveling down South Main. For kind of the phase two parking area, once a tenant is accepted and developed, we added a secondary pedestrian access way to access the north side of the building. Here, we just went with the small boxwoods to define that, to not create any kind of visual screening from this drive out on South Main.

Jim, can I go back to... Sure. You're removing the sidewalk on the west side and you're putting in landscaping, correct? That's where you're... Here. Yeah. Correct. That's also where your drive-up door is or window? Yes. That's this build-out. Are you removing it to be able to be closer to the building or... I mean, I think the pedestrian mobility around the building is important. And I've got another question. Sure. Not sure. I didn't unfold my plans because they're big. We don't have a walkway. We're not separating the parking on the north side from the building, are we? Or do you have a sidewalk there?

There's an existing sidewalk. At the rear? Okay. Yes, and the gas meter's back here as well with a couple bollards around it. In this plan, we're proposing to extend and expand that back sidewalk to accommodate more traffic for this future tenant space to buffer the new parking from the building as well.

So what would be your total sidewalk width on the north side?

On the north side, I think we have it at eight foot.

Okay. and we remove it on the west side. Correct.

Yeah, they're currently, and with at least our preliminary plan for the store, there's nothing to really access on that side of the building. If at some point, I'm anticipating that most of the future tenant space would be accessed from the north side, but just again, that's where the parking lays out, but... So I don't know if I see a strong need for circulation on the west side of the building. I do have a quick exit, emergency exit path there with a little sidewalk piece for people to get out of the building if needed.

Wow. You had the truck sitting on one set of plans where your fuel truck is unloading?

Yes.

So the fact that he's back in there, he's got hoses out now. He's not directly over top. Right. I still think we're restricting movement. My opinion. Sure. I mean, when a truck's there, it's going to cause chaos. You almost can't even get the four pumps out of. well, four stations, I don't know what you really call them, eight pumps out of whatever they are here. And I get it, they would love to have this guy here before they open, but there's, you know, I see trucks at gas stations All day long. And somebody shows up there at 4 o'clock, 5 o'clock at night, and people are trying to fill up, especially if they've got great gas prices. So you're not going to be able to get in and get out. Basically, it's a number of pumps that are kind of rendered useless at that point in time. I'm going to go back. I still think we're trying to fit too much on a piece in front of this. to make it really function well. That's just what I see. I'm just one member of this board, but that's my opinion on it. I'd love to see, I see no, I have no problem with the gas station, good corner. I just think we're trying to fit something around the building instead of trying to make the use function well. That's just my opinion.

It's certainly part of the challenge of dealing with an existing site and an existing building. I know when we first, or the thought of moving it to the north side was first brought up, there was also the possibility or the suggestion of demoing part of the existing building. From a business or practicality standpoint, I don't think they were open to that at all. And then the other issue would become Even if I flip this on the center line of the building to the back, so same drives around it and so forth. I'm going to be encroaching on this back lawn space by forty plus feet. Um, probably closer to fifty if you want to widen the drives to them, you know. maximum ability to circulate around the space, which would then put us back into the issue of site coverage with impermeable surfaces. So those were some of the thoughts that we went through in studies that we looked at when we were considering it.

Again, my opinion is instead of looking at something and it not working for years, Relaxing on the impermeable coverage Criteria would almost be my mind a better fit There's ways to maybe maybe find some additional areas of landscaping or whatever throughout But that's again. That's my opinion not Not something I can I appreciate that you guys went through NUMEROUS MOVEMENTS, AND THE OTHER ONE IS, YEAH, DEMOING HALF THE BUILDING JUST KIND OF ELIMINATES KIND OF PART OF THE PROBLEM HERE. TO GET A CANOPY, YOU'RE KIND OF DOING THIS DUAL USE KIND OF THING THAT THE CONVENIENCE STORE OR WHATEVER OF A GAS STATION, TRYING TO KEEP SOME EXTRA SPACE FOR A FUTURE TENANT. I GET THE BUSINESS PLAN. I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S If this building was 20 feet back on the site, I think your job would be a lot easier.

yeah and you know the whole concept is coming not for me necessarily it's coming from my clients and their gas station consultants and they're the ones that are saying no this this works this should work uh... we have no problem proceeding in that direction we're kind of jumping in to make sure everything works around it but it really is their intent and their belief that it should work upfront I know from a truck unloading standpoint for the tanker, we have about 33, almost 34 feet between the island and this edge of pavement. If they bring that truck back in, that takes up, let's say, 12 feet of that space, enough room for circulation. I think we still have some flexibility to move these tanks maybe further to the south so we don't have hoses drawn right across any part of that pavement and have a more direct connection there and limit the impact. Those are just some of the thoughts and you know we we move the tanks back to where the consultant recommended them and I'm sure once they get on site the tanker trucks will develop their own paths and we just wanted to formally say yes it works we can get a truck on and access those spaces so that's just how we're trying to address the situation I guess. Beyond the site functionality. I don't know if you want to take a quick look at the building changes renderings color elevations This is kind of a preliminary store layout again. They're using about 6100 square foot of this existing building this is existing space to remain unchanged until a tenant is selected and And again, here's that drive-through area window. It's near the cashier's point of sales. They do have a kitchen in this space, but that is intended to be used by people coming into the store to use it. And then the exterior elevations, we're pretty much trying to maintain as much of the existing building as we can. It's brick, just about half the height of the existing walls, privates, stucco, ephus, whatever you'd like to call it above that. We are removing the corner tower, going with and enclosing that exterior space for kind of an indoor seating area.

Did you change anything from last time? No. You provided canopy stuff, I think. Correct.

So this is relatively unchanged since our last meeting. We did change the sign so that it meets all the requirements and regulations. We're under sixty square feet. We're about fifty eight square feet for the main sign. We raised it off the ground a little bit more. It has a bigger, taller pedestal, but we're still under ten feet to allow for a little more landscaping room. So any shrubs that we plant there will not. Cover up the signage, we reduce the size and scale of the electronic portion of the signage. So that meets those requirements. It's less than 50% of the total square footage. Again, we have the address on the side facing the corner. Just to clarify a little bit on the canopy, they have not selected yet a supplier for the gas. So it's gonna be either BP or Marathon. I at least wanted to attach some images so you can kind of refer to the big blank rectangle that's on the plans currently. Each post will have brick up to the windowsill height that corresponds on the building. And then just painted steel above that. So graphically, Again, the BP on the sign could change to the marathon. I think on our original summit we had marathons, so that could fluctuate back and forth. But this is the intent as far as the structure to tie into the building a little bit better and at least an idea of imagery for the front canopy. And these are just existing images of the site just for reference if you had a question about any particular part of the existing building or some of the drives that surround it. And we have done a photometric plan as well. Show lighting levels, most of the new lighting is under the canopy. We do have a series of lights around on the building. A couple, I think three post lights, 20 foot or less, around the site for general parking, or lighting for parking. So that's where things stand. Any questions? I know there were some questions about the signage and maybe inhibiting views at the intersection. The new sign is going roughly in the same location as the existing sign that you see here in the photos. You can see it's a pretty clear view coming from both directions. I don't see that as being a hindrance at all. Over here is the existing masonry trash dumpster enclosure. We're planning on maintaining that. We'll probably clean up the gates themselves. maintaining the brick masonry enclosure itself. Then some of the images of the drive running on the east side of the building between it and its neighboring car wash.

So I guess back to the landscaping a little bit. I know Long Main Street you're showing, Long Main Street 619, you're showing some of the existing trees remaining, but you're also showing the new storm system there.

assume those three left come out and go in we got the storm calculations after the landscape plan was put together i think it will and and talking with the property owner some of the two or three remaining trees up there are in pretty rough shape as is so i think they may have come out uh maybe coming out anyway um i mean it might be nice to see a little heavier landscaping along those parking areas there yeah i think we could certainly accommodate that And I do know the owner wants to go more in the evergreen territory as opposed to deciduous from a cleanup standpoint maintenance issues.

And you mentioned a little bit about the back of the buildings. You said you showed the canopy coming down back there. Is that the plan to come down now with this initial phase of development?

We haven't discussed how that would be phased. I don't know if they would prefer to wait until they have a tenant in hand. It doesn't need to come down to accommodate their proposed use up at the front of the building with the gas station. We have enough parking already on site without the additional parking along the back to accommodate that initial use.

We're cleaning up the front end. side of the building, but they're kind of leaving the back and other side sort of, I mean, they're okay.

They're nothing. Yeah. I've got, I think I got some pictures of those, but yeah, it's, it's certainly nothing architecturally spectacular. Um, yeah, it's, it is what it is, but until we develop or know who might go in there, uh, we would design it to specifically accommodate that tenant. Both from a signage standpoint material obviously will be cut new entries storefront into those back walls We could possibly wrap the corner on the west side to add some interest facing Main Street as well But until we know who those those tenants may be or tenant it's hard to develop or put money into something we're not sure what what would be there and

I hear nothing from there. I know.

John, when you need him. I mean, I guess I'll still echo, I guess, a little bit of what Wayne's mentioning regarding the tightness of the site. I'm assuming the design vehicle of your turning radiuses is maybe just a graphic. I'm trying to do math in my head on how long a truck with a pontoon boat is on the back of it, and it's certainly not a sedan of Little outboard boat.

I have a feeling that was what was available in the program. Right. It looks like it's 42 feet total length there shown.

I mean, I would agree. I'd like that you're showing the worst case. I mean, being a boat owner myself, I would tend to try to get to the two end ones for ease of getting it out. But I know when you parked in there. I mean, it'd always be nice to see where that's going to be parked and sticking out. You know, you're filling your boat up from the back. So either you're blocking two pumps and still hanging out in the circulation aisle, or you're kind of pulling up to one and you're pretty much blocking the entire circulation aisle. Or the guy's going in the store with his thing sitting there for 10 minutes while he buys something like you always do. You can't get anywhere. So I guess what I'm kind of echoing, I mean, it's still, like on paper, it works great for just a car. But just knowing the location in Portage Lakes, What is likely going to be pulling into here to use this space?

Yeah, and these owners again on the gas station on the corner of Maine and What is that Portage Lakes Drive? Which obviously gets a lot of boat and trailer traffic and it's significantly smaller than this site. Yeah so they feel comfortable from their standpoint and from their experience and

I CAN'T CONSCIOUSLY SUPPORT THIS. I'M JUST SAYING THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REST OF THE BOARD FEELS. THEY CAN PUSH ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THAT'S JUST I BELIEVE WE'RE TRYING TO DO TOO MUCH ON ROUTE 619. then a back end has, I'm gonna use the word nothing, you know what I mean? And maybe a future something, but that's where I'm at, and what happened, I'll do respect, I don't know how long they've owned that gas station, and I don't even know how long it was there, but what comes back on us is, Well, who approved that? It doesn't function. You know what I mean? And yeah, if it had been there for 40 years, I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't care because it wouldn't have been on my watch. But part of this is on my watch. This is on my watch. So that's my concern.

I have a question for Mr. Persuto. So the other location that this owner has in Portage Lake and Main Street, do they have a tenant and a drive-thru?

No. I don't believe so. It's... I don't have an image of it, but it's significantly smaller footprint. They do not. They probably have four pumps, too. Yeah.

Part of this problem is the whole thing happening all together and at the same time, probably. Mm-hmm.

Oh, I understand.

I mean, I think I'd like to see if you consider, I mean, taking some of the building off. I mean, I'm assuming the droids are running in the east-west direction where you probably could shave off part of that front of the building fairly easily, and that might even help you develop a few of these build-outs a little bit better, too, to accommodate the drive-through, the little dining area, and the entry portico. Certainly, I think that will start to help some of the circulation at the front. I don't know how much you think you might need to do that, but I think I'd like to see that possibility.

And you're modifying the front. Significantly anyway, it's not as if you're leaving the front facade as kind of was so maybe the footprints roughly the same Yeah, it's the footprint the walls are the same. Yeah, but but again you are modifying. It's not like you're leaving it I'll admit we staff recommended the idea taking off the back which is kind of like the backside which removing the canopies there only because it's less less architectural features, not what Rite Aid had was, but thinking that you could leave the building as is, but you are removing features of this building. So just my thoughts, I'm not, again, there's four other people here that can chime in any time they want.

Does that have a 50% chance of happening or not?

I will have to review that with the owners. Let's just say, their intent when they approached us with the project was we have an existing building should take minimal renovations to make it function for their needs and should have enough space to accommodate the gas station function and that was clearly their intent all along And when the possibility of moving the pumps and so forth to the back, tearing down portions of the building, they just didn't see that as an economically feasible solution. They wanted to maximize the existing building and maximize the location of the site to best suit their business. So I don't know if they may just drop it. I'm not sure.

Let me, Jim, what I see here is that there are some questions asked about going back and asking them, which would lead to design review by tabling this again. Or option B, and I'm not sure what the other end of the room is thinking, but they could, if we provide an unfavorable Motion to any Commission they can overturn us. It's a recommendation sure, but I would hope that they would take that in Consideration that's all I mean and you might get favorable yet.

I don't know because I'm only one vote right and I know from a time frame standpoint They were hoping to get started on this thing as soon as possible and it by pushing it down the road I know it's I won't say it's creating a problem, but it's some heartburn on their end.

Well, if Planning Commission does not support the project either, they're starting over.

Yeah.

If it's tabled, it comes back to this body and then goes to July. Jesus.

Yeah, I know from our standpoint, from a fee standpoint, we're looking at two different designs completely, so I don't know how that would impact our business relationship.

Where do you want us to go? Do you want us to make a motion at the table, or do you want us to make a motion one way or another?

It's hard to speak for them with them not being here.

Want me to go for you?

I'm trying to think if the timeframe is more crucial to them than... Can you give them a call? Sure, I guess.

Would you want to give them a call and check with your client before?

Right, but does... Can we take a five-minute break?

Yeah, if that's all right. Can we freeze the camera?

All right. Go ahead.

Okay, I will. Thank you.

to do that.

If it will not be accepted as is by today's meeting by the board, the owner would prefer to table it to next month's design review board meeting.

And I will make a motion. I'll second.

Mr. Wiese.

Yes.

Mr. Wartko. Yes. Mr. Pickett. Yes. Mr. Lassner. Yes. Mr. Dybul.

Yes. Thank you. And I will also make a motion to adjourn unless there's any other business.

No. All those in adjourn say aye. Aye.