Common Council - Regular Meeting

recording in progress. and I'll get your

I call to order the meeting of our Common Council for Tuesday, February 3rd, 2026. Clerk. All right. Thank you, clerk. Now, please rise for the pledge of allegiance and remain standing for an invitation offered by Alder Stevens. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible.

Stevens. All right. Thank you, mayor, and welcome everybody. Everybody can have a seat. All right. Thank you for joining us this evening. I found this invocation to be fitting for our current times we are facing. May wisdom preside over the affairs of our times. And may those entrusted with civic responsibility conduct themselves with discernment, steadiness, and honor. In an era marked with swift concerns and shifting expectations, grant that each public servant remain guided not by convenience, nor by the pressure of uniformity, but by the enduring principles of integrity and public trust. Bestow clarity upon those who deliberate on behalf of their communities that they are may resist the call to fall into unthinking form formation. Let no alderman or any servant of the public feel compelled to advance in mechanical step as though governance was a parade of imitation rather than a vocation of consequence. Strengthen their resolve to act with independence of mind, to weigh each matter on its merits, and to uphold the dignity of their office through thoughtful judgment rather than reflective alignment. And may the public they serve recognize the valley of leaders who declined to move as toy soldiers in a line choosing instead the more demanding path of principle deliberate and accountable actions. Thank you.

Thanks so much Alder for sharing those words of wisdom. Um next is approval of the minutes. Motion to approve made by Alder Profett and seconded by Alder Stevens. Any changes here? Yes Alder E. Thank you mayor. Yes. In N1, excuse me. It has been marked as a yes, but I was a no. Got it. Thank you. All right. Thank you for that. Um is that an amendment? Uh motion to amend as uh Alder makes a motion to amend the minutes um to change that vote from no to yes on item that she had mentioned N1. Um that was seconded by Alder Johnson. Any discussion? Seeing none. All in favor say I.

I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. Item has been amended. Motion to approve as amended made by Alder Profett and seconded by Alder Ritterbush. All in favor will say I.

Post nay. The eyes have it. And the minutes have been approved as amended. Approval of the agenda. Motion to approve made by Alder Presley and seconded by Alder Stevens. Any changes? Seeing none. All in favor say I. Oppos. Nay. The eyes have it. Sure. Uh the agenda has been approved. Now the report by the mayor. Um couple notes. We've got an event coming up at Lion's Mouth on Thursday, uh February 5th at 5:30. Uh sort of introducing our poet laurate to the community. So just wanted to flag that for all the alders here, but also the community at large. Come out and and get acquainted with our with our new poet poet laurate. So, thanks to Alder Johnson for bringing that communication forward initially. Um, thanks to our public arts coordinator for uh for coordinating that whole RFP process and our council for uh for approving that position and um and uh making that designation. So, looking forward to seeing people out at Linesmouth on Thursday. Um then also just wanted to remind people, no reminders necessary for the people in this room, but we have an election coming up. Um, and it's not just in April. We've got have one in February um, in some situations. So, just encouraging um, residents to hop on my vote.wi.gov and see if there is a primary um, in your district. A lot of good information there. Obviously, our clerk and her team are always available to answer questions, but I would think she would agree that that's probably a good first place to go before going to the the clerk's office with questions. So encouraging people to to log on and make sure they know whether or not they have an election and um get some questions answered there, too. Uh finally, some good news coming out of uh Washington. Just wanted I we sent out a press release on this earlier this afternoon. Uh but wanted to publicly thank Congressman Weed and Senator Baldwin uh for advocating for the city of Green Bay. Um they were able to get

their colleagues to agree um to send $5 million to us for the purposes of constructing a new fire station on on South Broadway. So, congratulations to our Metro Fire Department, a project that is long overdue. Uh, and looking forward to to working with our ad hoc facilities committee and and council uh and finance committee to uh to get that project moving forward hopefully here in the in the near future. Uh so, with that, we'll move along to announcements from council Alder.

Thank you, Mayor. Um just wanted to remind everybody that the wildlife sanctuary has a frosty family night, family fun night. Um that has live music, horsedrawn carriage rides, food trucks, night uh night hikes, and allaround family oriented fund. And it's on February 7th. Awesome. Thanks for that, Alder. You're welcome. Any other announcements? Alder Johnson. Mayor, just two things. I'm going to piggyback off actually both things of what you said. One on the poet laurate. Um, just because I've gotten this question a fair amount, no property taxes were used to fund that role. So, if anybody asks you, please know that roads will still get fixed. Um, the the second thing, not by the pole laurate, but not by the polar,

but uh, great stuff. The second thing on the fire department too and I think um you know this was uh maybe reported partially incorrectly um I think from the last ad hoc facilities committee that the fire station was over budget and I think that's a bit of a misnomer. It's really we knew that we had 15 million that we were willing to authorize at the local level to fund it and if it was going to cost more to do we'd either have to defer pieces or the federal government could uh or the state could help chip in and allow us to build uh the thing in its entirety. So I just think it's important that distinction is important. It's not necessarily over budget. It's where we expected it to be. uh but this will ease the burden in terms of that decision- making uh to allow us to build what the preferred design would be. So I just kind of wanted to create that distinction.

Appreciate that. Alder other announcements. Seeing none, we'll move along to appointments. Motion to approve the appointment has been made by Alder Presley and seconded by Alder Profett. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say I. Oppose. Nay. The eyes have it and that appointment has been made. Next up is ordinance is second reading for adoption. Alder profit makes a motion to suspend the rules. Take up these items with one roll call vote. Seconded by Alder Presley. Any discussion? Seeing none. All in favor will say I. Oppose. Nay. The eyes have it. The rules are suspended.

Motion to adopt made by Alder Presley, seconded by Alder Profett. Um, and just uh a heads up, I think the our display is not working on uh on our roll call votes. Um, but if necessary, we will announce them. Right. The the our display board is not not working. So, just a heads up on that. All right, those uh ordinances are adopted or approved. 120. Next up is report of the improvement and services committee.

Motion to approve by Alder Profett and seconded by Alder Stevens. Items here to be handled separately. Item one others hearing none others. All in favor of approving the remainder of the agenda will signify by saying I. Opposed? Nay. The eyes have it. The report has been approved. The exception of item one. Your wishes. Open floor for interested parties. Alder Galvin makes a motion to open the floor. Second. Seconded by Alder E. All in favor will say I.

Post nay. The eyes have it. The floor is open. Uh, so if there's someone who'd like to speak to item one from improvement and services, this is regarding the sidewalk on Hartung Street. Um, yeah. Yeah. Just approach the podium and just state your name and address for us, sir. And, uh, we offer three minutes for testimony. Did you want the address of the property? Uh, either one. Okay. Yeah. My name is Steve Kirsten. I'm the owner of the property at 338 Hartung Street on the east side by the East River. Um,

go ahead. Yeah. All right. Um, first off, I'll start off by saying that uh the city wanted us to replace the sidewalk in front of my building there, which is extremely long. And um Mr. Gavin Gelvin here uh asked for a request of to extend it past the 30 days that they give you to repair uh sidewalks, which is pretty much impossible to get a contractor within 30 days and get 180 ft of work done. So, he applied for an extension, was turned down. At that point in time, I contacted uh Michelle from the uh city and we verbally talked back and forth. Uh I had finally gotten a hold of Razer Wright to do the work and uh what we did was at the end of September. Um Mr. Galvin said most of the time they do that in October, but this was September. So I called raise right and I had it moved up approximately 2 weeks which I had told Michelle was going to be the 15th of September and she said they would give us till the 19th of September to get it done. So um uh raiseight pulled a permit with the city so they were well aware of what was happening. Um and the date of the 15th was in fact the day that I told her and that they were there and they did complete the work. uh cost me $1,640 to get those 23 sections taken care of, which left about 10 uh two of which if you look at those pictures there, uh we didn't think we should be responsible for the very poor work that the city did on that water man. Uh and we had complained about that two years earlier uh as far as trying to get that done. Uh but the committee said that maybe since we complained, we were the one person that brought this all on ourselves because all it takes is one complaint and you can be, you know, liable for uh thousands and thousands of dollars worth of work. And they said that was us. So I

didn't think two years in front of that was a time frame that would fit that. But I I don't know of anybody else that complained because our sidewalks were much better than the ones like right across the street, which I asked Mark from the water department. I said, "What's the deal?" He said, "Well, you got one complaint. That's the deal." So, I said, "Okay." And then, uh, raise rate came out, did the work on the 15th, and it was completed. Um, and then every spot that was marked with an X to have it removed was a big orange R from Razer Wright was put over the top of it that it had been completed. Uh, the city in fact did not come out on the 19th like they said they were going to. I told my tenant to be alerted and let me know if that happened. Um, but as it turned out, they didn't come out till October. So, they had Michelle's complaint was they didn't have enough time or enough people in her department to actually check it out and see if it met city standards, which they were supposed to do. And we never got a call on that. Never got a call that they were coming. Never got a call that they checked it out. So, then they just came in October and tore everything out that we had repaired. So um you know and some of it I do feel we are responsible for the stuff that we didn't fix or grind or mudjack and that was approximately a third uh at the committee meeting we tried to compromise on that and Melinda had Melinda had a very good solution but we couldn't get everybody to agree. This is my third meeting with a two two tie twice now. Um, Mr. Gellin helped out quite a bit. I appreciate all the help he gave me. Uh, the committee, I think, was very fair. Uh, it's just there was two two twice and this is my second time back from Phoenix to enjoy the Wisconsin weather, which I really I don't mind. I like

Wisconsin. So, um I guess lastly, um I just wonder if I just been an individual and they came to tear up my driveway and stuff, if they would have given me any notice that they were going to come to my house and tear up my driveway. Uh I I would think that they probably would and I I would have liked the same consideration. Thanks for your testimony, sir. I think I've used my three minutes up. Uh any questions from councel? Yeah, Alder Grant. Thank you. When you spoke to staff about the 15th completion date, did they ask you to call back when it was in fact Sorry. Hi. No. Um when it was in fact complete or did they say, "Okay, that's all we need from you."

Well, it was just a verbal conversation. Yep. I had just called her. I told her it would be the 15th. She said they would could give me until the 19th and then they would do it. Nothing was followed up with a letter or anything. It was all just verbal. So, no, they did not say that I had to call them or anything like that. And in the letter that I got, it doesn't it doesn't say that I well, it does say that I think I have to either call or email. And I did call and I told them and and that wasn't very far out either. That was in September, I think, when I called them. So, it was just a matter of a few days uh to get it done. Okay. And they like it. So, they did not ask you to call back on completion. Okay. They did not. Thank you. Yes.

Any other questions? Alder Hutcherson. Okay. So, your contractor got a permit to remove and replace sidewalk. Well, not remove, but mudjack or grind. They don't remove and put nuke concrete in. So, they got a mudjack permit from the city. Yes. And do you have a copy of that? Of the permit? Yeah. No, they they pulled it themselves, so I never got a copy of it. Uh, it's kind of key. I mean, I I trust that it happened, but that's a key point of Oh, it did. evidence of having a permit pulled and you have it in writing. Okay. Because a lot of this seems to be verbal

and a lot of times the city gives you a date. So, it's a hard date you got to try to meet and they'll come afterwards. Okay. And so, that's so you get it done. I believe that was the 19th because that's what she told me on the phone. Okay. But it just seems like there's a disconnect and it's really a disconnect I see it between contractors. If raised right would have called the contractor who was doing the work for the city there would be no miscommunication. But it sounds like the contractor for the city showed up and they just did it. They just tore things apart and Yeah. They never checked it like they were supposed to to see if it

Well, we're talking two different things here. The city checks, the contractor builds. Okay. It's two different things. Correct. Okay. So, there seems to be just a disconnect between those two things. Unfortunately, totally unfortunately because we all have mudjack stuff. I have Mudjack. They do a lot of work for the city. It's not like that was the only time because they do a lot of work for the city. It wasn't just this one time. Okay. And so they should have the permit to MUJack and and so did they leave it to you to contact the city or were they going to contact the city that they did the work? Well, I contacted the city and I told them it was going to be done on the 14th

but I'm talking about the city the work's done. Correct. Communication should have happened. It's done. Not it's going to be done. It's done. Did that ever occur? It's done. Did I ever talk to her? No. Did Yeah. Did Okay. So, um it's an unfortunate I think miscommunication. Okay. Yeah, I guess you could say that. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Alder Hinfus. You had stated that you had talked to uh somebody in the city a couple of days before the 15th. It was Michelle. It was Michelle

or Valley. Okay. Right before the 15th. right before you were going to have the work done. A week, maybe something like that. Maybe 10 days. Yeah. I had told her that it was I had rescheduled it to conform to what they had told me because it was after the 19th. So once it was I got it moved up about 2 weeks. Then we were within that time frame of the 19th

and and you as a resident called to let them know it's going to be done on the 15th and thought you had done what you needed to do. Well, I know we pulled a permit, so I thought that part of it was done because that's what they requested. So, we had them do that and they did. And, uh, you know, we met the requirements to be done by the 19th. Uh, which we did and it was done. And like I say, every X that they had, there was a big orange R put over as you can see in the packets. Uh, so we should have alerted somebody to at least let us know when they were coming so or conform to the city so that we could redo it and and make it qualify for good concrete. Okay. Thank you.

All right. Any other questions? Thanks for your testimony, sir. Thank you. Do Do I need to stick around or do I hear about this later or how um the council will then will now debate the the issue? So, yeah, feel free to stick around in the audience. Motion to close the floor made by Alder Galvin. Um seconded by Alder. All in favor will say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. The floor is closed. Alder Galvin.

I'd like to make a motion uh move that the the cost of replacing the sections of sidewalk that the property owner had fixed be removed from his bill. So I I can't remember exactly how many sections, but whatever those number of sections were, he had repaired them. had notified the city in my opinion that it was going to be done on a certain date. The sections were clearly marked. Um and if this contractor's been doing any kind of work for city, these that marking would have been something that would have stood out. Uh and uh so I I don't think he should be held responsible to to pay for that. Okay. Is there a second for that motion? Yes.

Seconded by Alder U on the motion. Um, also maybe before we have discussion about the motion, um, just invite Director Gust to weigh in on on any of the testimony or anything that you want to share with council.

Sure. I do I do want to clarify one thing. Um, uh, the last time I spoke um, with I believe Mr. Kirsten um was on September 5th and I did follow up with an email. So, I do have email communication. So, I just wanted to let you know the date and um basically I stated in my email, I'm following up on the phone call. Um our contractor is scheduled to start work in your area between September 15th through the 29th. You said that your contractor is lined up for the week of September 15th. We can have our contractor avoid your property until September 19th. After that time, as our sidewalk technician said, if the work is still not complete and the cor contractor arrives to do the work, we are legally obligated to proceed with a sidewalk repair.

And then there there was no response back from No, that was the last communication we had. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Um so we have a motion and a second um on that. Sure. All the profit Sorry, Director Juen. When did the work get complete then by the city? Um, I believe it's on the invoice. Um, October. That's the date of the invoice. I know it was I believe it was early October. I don't know if it says it here. October 2nd.

Thank you. Okay, Alder.

Thank you, mayor. Yeah, I So, I just wanted to clarify the amount that um was 3,250 um that was the amount I was saying that he should pay because that was the amount of the 50 ft. He was expecting 10 pieces of sidewalk and they're about five feet um long for each sidewalk times the $13. So the the higher rate between the two. Um so the amount for him to pay was my motion was 3,250. So based on what Alder Galvin is saying that um it would be that would be the the bottom line I guess.

Okay. So I think you said it kind of opposite. We're subtracting it but that's the bottom line. Okay. Thanks Alder. Alder Johnson. Thank you, mayor. I think one thing that would make me more comfortable before any vote occurs is if we can actually put a number to this uh because I feel like there's some abstracts being put out there. Um

that's what you made at committee, but that's not necessarily what Alder Galvan made today. So, I just want to have verification if we could from Alder Galvan on the exact number uh contained within his motion. And then the secondary question I would have for staff is um if this were to pass, does this require us to identify a funding source or is it presumed that it could be covered through the budget allocation for this service? We'll let we'll let Galvin do some math. Director Justin, it would it would come out of our sidewalk fund. So it would become come out of our capital improvement. Okay.

Balance. Well, the the bill that the gentleman received was for $10,838.40. And if Alder X math is correct, the sections that he had repaired, uh, had they not been charged to him would have been $3,250. So, uh, in the end, I'm I'm my motion should be understood that he's responsible for $7,588.40. 40 cents. That's the opposite. It's the opposite. The opposite. He'd be liable for 3,250. Sorry. To go back. So reducing from All right. Yeah. The 7,000 would be the reduction.

Then he would be responsible for $3,250. Okay. That's your motion. Yes. Okay. On on that piece, uh, Alder Profit.

Yeah. I would feel a lot more comfortable if this math was coming directly from our invoice that we have in front of us that is separated out by three different quantities and then if the math would be done that way. So whatever I don't I don't understand based on what I'm looking at. There's a $12 each of a 445.7. There's a $12 each of a 334 and then there's a $13 each of 114. So, whatever sections he did repair prior to this invoice, I'd rather that we go with the math of what was on this invoice and then reduce it from this invoice. I'm not following where these numbers currently are coming from. So, I don't know if director ju could clarify thickness. So, how do we know what piece?

Let's have director explain.

Right. So, at the INS meeting, we did some quick math and we have no way of knowing, you know, exactly what was done because we weren't able to go and inspect it. Um, so the the math that we had done was based on um Alder X request to count uh 10 sidewalk sections. So, it was um believe 50 linear feet by a five foot width. and we used the $13 one which is the 6 in the last item and that's how we came up with the 3,250. So it's essentially 10 sidewalk sections.

So that 300 or three sorry 3,500 is what you had indicated that he would have already paid for once over and you're recommending that be taken off or based on the motion you're not recommending anything. I apologize, but to put words in your mouth, I'm just trying to understand, should that 3,000 be reduced from the 10,000 or are we saying there's 3,000 left? I'm still not understanding the the 3,250. Uh the recommendation at the INS by Alder was that he only pay for 10 sections. So that would be the cost for 10 sections of sidewalk to be replaced. Okay. So 3,500 3,250

250. Okay. Would be all right. So depending on what the motion is here, that is what I would be in favor of. 10,83840 minus 3,250 and then they would be responsible for the rest. So that's the opposite of what we were, right? But am I understanding what you're saying correctly is you're saying that those 10 pieces that he had already repaired would equate to on this bill $3,250. what was left. So there there was um I believe there was a total of around 23 sidewalk sections

and um there were still cracks. So the mudjacking was done but there was still cracks. So it was estimated that approximately 10 of those 23 would have been the city's responsibility to do do anyway. Even if he completed the mudjacking, they still needed more work. So we would have had to come out do additional work to approximately 10. Um we weren't able to go out and inspect. So we couldn't you know we couldn't we can't verify that number exactly which ones still needed work but okay it's estimated to be 10.

Okay. But ultimately it didn't get inspected in those three weeks time to even confirm that the work that was done was up to code in the first place. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Um, Alder Hutcherson.

Um, okay. I understand the logic and I guess I would be willing to approve that the owner of the property would be responsible for $3,000 plus dollars. Okay. One thing that kind of bugs me is the role of the contractors in this. The city had a contractor, the owner had a contractor. There's this big disconnect. And I don't know why that happened. Um, and I don't know if there's a way that we can hold our contractor somewhat responsible. I know we don't want to do this because we want contractors to come work for us and do the work in a quick fashion and get it done per standard and all that. But to me, the our contractors showed up and there was mudjacking that had done been done. Obviously, there were markings on the sidewalk. Why wasn't there communication to somebody, the city, the owner, as to what happened here? And that didn't occur. Uh, so we had our contractor, Rarigo. They come upon this and they're adults. They can see why didn't they call? Is there any way that we can hold them liable to part of that $7,000 the city's gonna eat? Uh, I guess this is to the attorney. Uh, do we have any way to do that or at least a communication to the contractor saying what happened? Explain it to us. Maybe I'll invite Director Juic just to weigh in on this communication disconnect. if you have any thoughts on that and attorney coach you can maybe think about um Alder Hutcherson's question.

Sure. Right. So the you know the contractor would have been given their orders um to go out to do the sidewalk. So they had you know they're making their way around the city. Um I can't say you know what they were thinking when they came there whether they you know the workers saw what had occurred or not. Um so I I don't know you know that piece of it. Um, I would say that, you know, I guess in my opinion, um, we would have had to known the work was done and tell them not to do the work. I don't know what recourse we have, um, since we didn't give them any different instructions,

right? Okay. So any like process solutions that you can think of or this I mean this is just the way that you know we've talked about you know um whether you know we need to get ahead of the contractor and be out there at every single project and we don't we only have one person running the sidewalk program plus doing other technician work you know surveying and stuff for projects. So to add in another position, um you know, we we're we're challenged. We just don't have this person can't be all over the city.

Um so that there's that piece of it. Um you know, it's possible. It's just we're limited. Okay. Okay. Thanks, Attorney Card. Any thoughts on Alder's question?

Sure. So, in terms of the um contractors, it would really be just looking at our contractor because obviously the property owner hired their own and we'd have to identify some um like either breach of contract or non-compliance like if we required that they check for markings or something. I'm just talking about it hypothetically that they would have really done something wrong. A mistake was made in the process and I don't believe that's the case here. You know, when looking at this letter, I reviewed this um and provided information to the alders at INS. A formal communication, which is required by state law, which our communication complies with, was issued on May 21st, and it specifically says under option two, which is what the property owner availed themselves of, that the property owner shall call or email that the work is completed and ready for final inspection. The city shall then inspect the repairs and no call was made, right? And so there was an open line of communication. Director Houston mentioned um the notification or the last communication they had on the third, the work still hadn't been done. So, it's really I don't you know I don't unless we identify the contractor responsibility or the property owner identified that their contractor was supposed to notify us. It's really comes down to the notification piece which isn't our contractor's responsibility.

Thank you. Thanks, Attorney. Um first Alder Johnson, then Alder Gavin.

Thank you, Mayor. And I think when I'm looking at this, there's two things for me. I guess one is there's sometimes a time, you know, to really exert that this is the law. And sometimes there's an opportunity for grace and recognizing that maybe there's an opportunity for process improvements, resource allocation, uh, to help get to a better outcome. Remember that this was a policy decision by this body to really address the condition of sidewalks in our community. And I do think that that was a smart directive. I just think that because it's a new program, we're still trying to figure out what kind of resources do we really need to allocate to this to ensure that things can be inspected and and managed properly. So when I'm looking at this, I see it as an opportunity to have that process improvement and that this is the cost to do that. So I think I'm I'm supportive of of a level of forgiveness on this is provided that we react accordingly and and make that improvement. The one thing that still just sits out there with me um that I would really like to see though before we cast this vote is exact numbers. And I still think there's a misunderstanding here on what we're actually authorizing. And so if I would maybe it sounds like Alder G wants to speak after me is just make that request that we have this invoice in front of us that's 10,838.40. If we could maybe just have the motion explicitly state the amount that we are author or that we are going to cast a vote on uh to forgive of that invoice. I think that might be the clearest way for us to approach that because sounds to me like we've got alders that are seeing two different numbers here within the same motion.

So it's I mean it's the difference between 108 and 3250. Is that correct? Okay. which is 7,58840. So, and again for clarity, we're the motion is to forgive that amount. Correct. Okay. Alder G.

Thank you, your honor. Um, I'd like to point out where it says that uh in the paperwork that he received in May uh that uh he is supposed to either contact the property owners responsible to contact by phone or email that the project's done and he did contact he told him it would be done on the 15th. Now, does that mean he has to wait until the 15th to call and say the project's done, or can he call in advance and say the project will be done on the 15th? I mean, you know, now we're getting into splitting hairs here. And I think for the city to say, well, he didn't call on the 15th or he didn't call on the 16th because really he should have called on the 16th to say it was done on the 15th. I mean, it it it starts getting a little ridiculous. And I think the fact that in good faith he said it would be done because his contractor assured him it would be done and it was done on the 15th and yet the city didn't go out and check it. Now you get into whether you know the the city's contractor should have been at least somewhat alerted when he saw the the bright lettering on the different sections which are way different than what the city always traditionally puts on sections of sidewalk that need to be replaced. I would have thought that that contractor would have been alerted that something was different here and he you know but again he's not here to defend himself or say what his thought process was but I I stand with my motion. Um I I don't think he should be held responsible for something that he clearly made an effort and he did notify the city on the day it would be done and it was done on that date. Thank you.

Thanks. Any other comments? Alder Hutchson then Grant.

Okay. Um, thank you, Alder. Um, I think, uh, I I I used to do this. I was assistant city engineer for the city of uh, Westbend in the 80s. Uh, concrete was made out of different stuff back then. I don't know. But, uh, to your point going forward, I think we have to be clear in our communication because this communication was not clear in this in this story. You must call when the project is done as assistant city engineer. If some I get a call and say someone oh we're going to be out there next Tuesday and working on it and this is a contractor calling or an owner. Yeah, call me when it's done because it when it's done it's done. Okay, that's a clear point. Even though I'm saying this, I will vote for this for this, but I want to be clear going forward, people who are going to get into this and have and have sidewalk they have to do, please, please, if you do yourself, call the city when it's done so they can take the appropriate steps. Thank you. Well, and just to re reinforce that, Alder, I mean, anybody who's ever asked a contractor to do any work understands that that completion date is oftentimes a little bit of a moving target. Um, and for a director of the Department of Public Works of a city of 107,000 people to be providing this level of customer service is pretty impressive. So, you know, definitely process improvements that could be made. Um, but to have this exchange between the director of our department, um, and and still that communication breakdown to happen on the other side of the equation, I just think everybody needs to recognize the the service that's being provided here. Um, and the flexibility that seems to be in

the process of being offered. Um, you know, we pride ourselves on good customer service in the city of Green Bay and I think it was offered in this in this instance in spite of the differences of opinion. Alder Grant Thank you. Um, just a question for Director Duen. When someone does take out a permit and as a contracted or approved contractor, do they ever notify us of the completion versus the I understand the lar of the owner, but since we have a relationship with them, is it part of the process that the contractor notifies the city that it's completed?

Not that I'm aware of. Um, the one permit that I did have a copy of is the one that's issued through DBW, which is the excavation obstruction permit. And they just put the date that they're going to do the work on there. Okay. Okay. Um, and just Yeah. So, the for clarification, the contract that did the work that was through the city, they did not call with any questions and ask what these different markings were. No, we we didn't get notified until the property owner received the invoice and then we became aware of the issue.

Um, one last question. When the resident called prior to the 15th and said, "I'm going to be taking care of these portions myself," would it be part of our polic or procedure that then we contact our contractor to say some work is being done by the resident prior to them coming? If they're planning to come on the 19th, don't we give them some instruction prior to let them know? Otherwise, how do they know what they're walking into? uh he would have just had the original orders since we didn't um since we weren't aware that you know the work had been done. Um we we didn't the technician didn't change any of the orders that were given to the contractor was there just their original assignment. Even though you had a permit from his contractor saying I'm doing some work to this project. Wouldn't the two I guess connect as in if a permit's being taken up for the same address as one that we have orders on wait what is this person doing then and shouldn't we align the two and maybe notify the second contractor that some prior work has been done and we have approved the permit we have authorized this work and helps that communication along so the excavation obstruction permit was taken out on August 11th and the the target date was September 23rd for the work. So obviously some things had changed. Um when we're reviewing that, you know, we're just looking to make sure um that you know there there's not going to be any issues with the work as far as you know like obstructing the road or anything like that where they have proper traffic control. So it's not necessarily you know the sidewalk person is not necessarily the one that's looking at that. Okay. Even though the resident I guess when the resident called and you sent that email you know per our conversation he had made you aware of them doing their work. So we

were aware of some work. I guess at that point would that instruct us to then contact the next contractor to make them aware of the work that we were being told of. Um so the property owner there had been commun communication all summer long trying to you know coordinate on schedules and stuff. Um they said they would be doing the work at that point. You know I I passed it on to our sidewalk technician and we never got any further communication at that after that. So that was on September 5th. Um the deadline you know was September 15th. Um, so there was a couple weeks gap and then there was a time since the cont our contractor got out there, but September 5th is when he called and said it will be completed on the 15th.

Yes. Okay. Okay. All right. Um, that's all I have for questions. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments? Um, on and this is on the amendment reducing the invoice to 3250. Alder Johnson then Presley.

Yeah. Um, you know, again, I just kind of acknowledging I think mayor, I appreciate the point you made and it puts a lot of perspective on this and I think you're absolutely right and I think that's the part where I think the process improvement to me is how do we get our director out of those conversations frankly and and so I just wonder if you know when the letter that goes to the property owner can just be a little bit more explanation in terms of why they have to take certain steps. You know, I always believe that when people understand the why, they're more quick to act appropriately. And if they know that if they don't take the right steps, city contractors going to come through. So, how do we take something right now that's a little bit sort of maybe uncertain to somebody and just make it very black and white. And if you don't follow this process, it's black and white why the outcome is what it is. And I just wonder if there's a way that we can take the phone call and the email out of it, which can be subject to error, and just literally you have to submit this web form, and now it's logged, it's documented, it's stamped, and that web form, if set up, could even send an email directly to the contractor at the same time with proof that it was done. So, I I know that's a little bit beyond what we normally do here, but I just wanted to at least offer a process improvement that hopefully takes it out of your hands and just makes it very easy in the future. um that I normally don't get involved. This was probably the only one that I got involved with because it got raised to that level.

Sure. Appreciate that. Alder Presley and then

Thank you. Um I I'm not in favor of the amendment. Um I've said the same thing in committee uh that this was notified on the 30 or 21st of May I believe 21st of May uh city says you have 30 days to fix this or else we're going to do it. Um we asked for an extension. Okay now you have another 30 days. We ask for an extension. We ask for an extension. We ask for an extension. Um it's very clear in that original notice. property owner shall call or email that the work is completed and ready for final inspection. Um, I understand what Alder Johnson is saying about process improvements. Um, but this makes it fairly clear or very clear that you need to let them know when it is done so the city can come out and inspect it. Um, and then they will decide whether it is acceptable, if it meets what they need, and if they don't, then we start the process over again. That's all laid out there. It's black and white. Um I I want to reframe the narrative of well he said he was going to get it done uh on the 15th and then he did get it done on the 15th. He was supposed to have it done on the 21st of June. We had extension after extension. Um and then finally said, "Okay, we figured it out. It's going to be done on the 15th." Um, director Jeff's last email communication I think was very clear um about what the process is and then when that when that construction was completed nobody was notified. The only notification that was made was a a orange R on the sidewalk and I don't think that is sufficient. Um I don't I think a call or an email could have easily been done especially when it had been delayed so long when it's 6 months out now. um that we've been waiting to hear that this is done so we can call off the contractors, let us know that it's done. Um so, you know,

that things could be improved certainly, but I'm I'm looking at the people who are paying the property taxes that are now being used to subsidize $7,000 potentially worth of sidewalk repairs. Um instead of our normal process, which everybody else has to go through where they get their own sidewalks repaired and pay for that. Um I I I don't believe in that. a sort of subsidy when there is a very clear standard of how this is supposed to operate. Thanks, Alder. Alder Galvin.

Thank you, your honor. As to the uh 30 days that uh our residents are given, um I don't know of anyone that's been able to get a contractor within the first 30 days and get the work done. Almost every one of them has to ask for an extension. Although we have many contractors that are licensed to practice within the city, very few are able to or willing to do these kind of projects. And so, uh, what Mr. Kirstson went through is what many of our other residents have to go through. It's it's a confusing and it's a mystifying process for them, especially when they get told that they've got 30 days or else. And I've had quite a few calls from constituents in the past who became very upset thinking there was nothing they could do. Um, and I want to uh, as far as Director Juen's involvement in this, I want to say that no matter how this vote turns out, I ended up going to her and she I'm sure she kind of regrets it now answering that phone call, but I went to her because there had been a conflict between the resident and and city staff. And uh, I wasn't able to get any kind of a resolution. And so I did go to Director Ducen and ask for help. And I really appreciate that she did because she did go above and beyond. And uh I I do appreciate that and uh I don't like I said I don't care how this vote turns out. I still appreciate everything she did for uh my constituent. Thank you. Alder Glee.

So I understand the delays in construction process um especially when it comes to concrete. I feel like concrete is one of the fields that is the longest delayed. So, I can understand a a 30-day delay and another 30-day delay and another 30-day delay. Um, what I can't understand is what Alder Presley had brought up, and I had spoken with the attorney about this as well, but under option two, it literally states the property owner owner shall call or email that the work is completed and ready for final inspection. We can't even put a number on the 23 sections that were marked with an R from Ray's rightight because they were never reinspected. It was it the the last contact h happened on September 5th. So the work was completed on September 15th. And I know you give a deadline on something that the work's going to get completed, but it's a contractor. Contractors are never done on time. So, 23 sections that had an R spray painted on them and they were never reinspected. So, we don't know if they were completed to the standard that the city needed or not or if they were ADA compliant or any of that. We don't even know what size those pieces of concrete were on those 23 sections. Um, so I just I can't get past the fact that there was no communication after the work was completed. I know if I had a $10,000 bill hanging over my head and we had a contractor that was slated to come tear all that out on the 19th, I would have made that phone call at 3:45

when that contractor left on the 15th. So I I can't support this profit.

Ever since attorney coach art brought up that option too, it's been stuck and highlighted on my screen. So a solid at least 20 minutes um with the calendar um because I'm thinking back to the email that Director Juan read um that went without response. Um, so option two, as has been reiterated by Alder Presley and Alder Dele shall call or email when the work's completed and ready for final inspection. And that's the piece that never happened. There was 17 days in between when that email was sent and unresponded to and when the city came out and and did their piece with their contractor. 17 days. Um, so yeah, if I knew that there was a bill coming, um, I certainly would make sure. But this letter, you know, was sent back in May. um there's a chance that they didn't recollect that that's what it said, but that I don't think should be then up on the city to make sure that they kept this letter and they read that they did option two. The key piece is ready for final inspection. I've had homework assignments due on a certain day and I told my my teacher that I would get it done on that day and I didn't. You know, I turned my assignment in late and we all know that's what we've seen with contractors. I think that's why Director Houston followed up 10 days later via email and said, "Hey, following up on our phone call from 10 days ago, just wanted to make sure." And not only did she say, "Hey, you said it was going to be done on 9:15." She gave the grace to say by end of week, then we will have them come. And it they still didn't go the next week. They went two weeks later. They went 17 days after that email went unread and unresponded to. Um, this is 23 patches of sidewalk. Yeah, I would make sure I was on the phone the next day as well. Um, and even not the next day, but I mean there was an email that was sent and not responded to from the director of our public works. I had a problem with that. So, I'm not in favor of this amendment anymore. I walk back my previous

statement. Any other comments? Alder Hingfist.

Thanks, Mayor. I really when I look at this and I listen to um what Mr. Kirsten has said and what Alder Galvin has said, I really think it was a miscommunication. I don't think it was intentional on either side. Um but as a business owner, he said it was going to be done on the 15th in his mind. Okay, it's done on the 15th. You're going to come and look at it and it's going to be over. I I have a hard time penalizing um somebody when I think he thought he was doing the right thing and I think Valerie thought she was doing the right thing and she's very good at her job but in this instant I'm going to support Bill's motion. Alder Galler.

Alder Gallins. Any other comments? Grant.

Thank you, Mayor. You know, I think Alder Johnson made a good point that this is a good opportunity for us to fix our process and I it's I think this is a tough one because I agree that I think both sides made errors. We have a letter that clearly states what the resident should do. He was under the understanding that he had completed that. You know, could staff had guided him a little bit more. Yes, but she did offer a follow-up email. One suggestion I would make is if Alder Galvin's motion fails, you know, do we both say, "Hey, we were both wrong." Maybe in the middle, maybe we don't eat all of it, but we understand that there is no clear picture of who's who made a mistake. And so, if this fails, I would be willing to offer up another motion to meet in the middle. Thank you.

Thanks, Elder. So, the motion is to reduce the invoice to $3,250. Uh, there's been a robust debate. All in favor will signify by saying I. All oppose. Nay. The eyes appear to have it. A board vote has been requested by all the profit.

It's the same. Okay. Same math. Yeah. All right. Just make sure. Yeah. Yeah. So the we will use the board. All right, the motion is approved 9 to3. Now we are on to protection and policy. Motion to approve made by Alder Stevens, seconded by Alder Profett. Uh any items here to be handled separately?

Four. Any others? Hearing none others. All in favor of approving the remainder of that report. Signify by saying I opposed. Nay. The eyes have it. The report has been approved with the exception of item four. Motion to approve. Alder Johnson makes a motion to approve item four. Seconded by Alder Stevens on that motion. Alder Johnson.

Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. Um, you know, I could just as easily talk to you about this separately, Chief, but I just kind of want to wanted to publicly acknowledge it. The, um, I think it was about a year ago, maybe that you and I had actually talked about something like this. And um and you know I I broached this with the mayor even before the meeting and I said yeah I like fully support this. I think this is important. Um however if we make this change and people don't know we made the change I think it's going to lack um sort of the you know the impact that we're looking for. And so I hope that we can find a way maybe to bring in some partners and incorporate some type of PR campaign to really get this out to the public so that they're aware that uh not only if you're the driver, but if you loan your vehicle um to somebody or somebody takes your vehicle and commits this crime that they can be held accountable for that in by virtue of this ordinance change. So, I just uh and again, nothing you really unless you want to react to that, but I just I really want to encourage whether it's PD or even through the mayor's office that we maybe can find a PR campaign strategy to go around this.

Chief Davis, anything on that? Sure. Anytime we uh enact something with these kind of implications, there's always a communications plan that goes with it to make sure people at least have the opportunity to understand it. And actually, I think there's already been a media interview about this today.

Yeah. And then if I I just follow that up, chief, with um appreciate the media coverage and that's always a good thing we can get that kind of lasts, you know, in that moment. I would love to see if we could even do something that's more prolonged. And so, you know, if you're working with like a billboard company that would perhaps donate some PSA campaigns or, you know, something along those lines because obviously reckless driving has been an incredible concern here in our community as as of late and and I appreciate everything the police department's really done to try to curb some of this and obviously you only have so many tools uh within your toolbox and so I'm I'm hoping that this is a is a big lever u but it only works if again if people really understand that impact. So,

sure. Well, thanks Alder Johnson. Uh motion was made to approve. All in favor will signify by saying I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it and that item has been approved. Uh report of the Green Bay Police Department granting operator licenses. Motion to approve made by Alder Profit and second by Alder Dele. Any um abstensions or names be handled separately? Hearing none. All in favor say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. That report has been approved. Plan commission. Motion to approvement by Alder Profett. Seconded by Alder Hinkfist. Items here to be handled separately one and two.

All right. So we will handle those separately on one Presley.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um just after looking over the meeting of the plan commission on this um and weighing uh staff's recommendation for this um I I don't think that regional commercial land use is the correct use for this. Um I I think keeping it as neighborhood commercial is more in line with the surrounding neighborhood, the apartments there. Um and uh looking at not just this tenant uh this good business owner who's uh surely if we pass is going to do good things but the future of that neighborhood and really the philosophy of planning a neighborhood. I think we should really reconsider uh plan commission's recommendation and go with stacks staff's recommendation. So I'm going to make a motion to deny.

Okay. Alder Presley makes a motion uh to deny the request. seconded by Alder Profett. Um on that motion, the resident alder, Alder Morgan.

Yes, this is my district. Um and I went to a meeting we had uh staff had there, a representative there at the facility. Um the president of the Starlight Neighborhood Association came there. We had no one that's ever in the neighborhood complain about this. Uh what I saw there is a business person that uh local people from this area that have been in this kind of business for 15 years. This property used to be Cliff Wall Mitubishi and then it became uh Burkstrom's property and uh that prop corner lot is already grandfathered that they can do sell cars theirs and stuff. The uh they want to purchase the property next door and have two parcels. Right now, they have a limited space to display the vehicles they're selling. And if they could purchase this new parcel, they'd then be able to expand their inventory. With that, they uh are hoping to add 10 to 12 more jobs to their facility. Like I said, they've they've got 15 years of experience selling cars in Brown County. They uh left for a while, went into real estate Florida, decided they wanted to be back home in the Brown County area. And if you got to see what they have done with this old Mitabishi garage, you'd be totally shocked. I myself worked in the auto repair business for about five or six years, and the mechanics I worked with would be in heaven if they had a facility like this. They've spent unbelievable amounts of money to get the best equipment. I had

gone in there last summer just to look around and uh the place is immaculate. They have cleaning staff that comes there every night or on the business nights they're open and cleans that whole facility. They uh these two uh husband and wife actually are there usually 12 to 14 15 hours a day working themselves. They take a lot of pride in everything they do. If they get this parcel, what their main goal is, like I said, is to expand their inventory and increase their business and expand people working for them. The actual building is a was a part store. It was automotive. It has bays in there, but all they want to use these for is for detailing. So, when they do buy a vehicle and it's not ready to go out on their lot, they would clean it up. They fix whatever is needed. All the repairs and stuff will still be done in the old Mitubishi garage. They have no intent of doing body work over there. And to me, it's a win-win that we can get more jobs. We'll take a building that could end up empty for a while and have it used right away. And uh I know the people are here. So that is all I have to say, but I'd like to make a motion to open the floor if they would like to come up and speak.

Alder Mo Alder Morgan makes a motion to open the floor. Seconded by Alder Galvin. All in favor will say I. Those nay. The eyes have it. The floor is open. If anyone would like to speak to this item, feel free. I would like to speak about it. Uh I'm Bob Ever. Uh I'm the owner of the Advanced Auto Building and uh so I want you to know that right off. I Your address, sir. Oh, sure. It's uh Franconia, New Hampshire.

And I bought the building about three years ago. When I first looked at it, the building next door that we're talking about was a dump. Uh the place was uh the grounds were unkempt. The building itself was really nothing in it. Uh it really was a detriment to the neighborhood. Uh when I went back uh I don't know about five months ago when I knew that uh the building was going to be vacated by advance, I couldn't believe the difference that they made. Uh they did a beautiful job on that building. Um I'm familiar with renovations. Uh but he's made that not only a credit to the neighborhood, he's made it an anchor to the neighborhood and he's made it something that other people uh would be glad to have in the area. That much I can tell you. Um it is a mixed commercial and a residential area. Uh but it's a it's an asset and a really good asset to the area. It's an asset to Green Bay. Um, I uh don't know what else I could tell you. If you had any questions for me, I would try to answer them. Uh, but uh,

thanks. Thanks for your testimony, sir. Any questions from our elders? All right. Appreciate it, sir. Anyone in Thank you. in the room who'd like to speak.

And then again, if you could just state your name and address for us. Yeah. Can I take a seat here? Sure.

Uh Brandon Henches, uh 997 Thornberry Creek Drive, Onida. Um so my wife and I, we've been in the business for like the alderman said, over 15 years. It's actually been a little over 17 years. Uh we put a lot of pride into what we do. Um you know, we're there. there from 6:00 a.m. 6:30 till 78 at night. Um, lots of time energy goes into this place to keep it running. And um, basically where we're at now is we have almost in less than one year at the Cliff Wall building. We've almost um already maximized our space and we need to uh get this other building so we can get other work done instead of sending it off site. So that's the purpose of the building is just to maximize work in-house, create more jobs. Um we plan on, you know, using this building to the same standard that we keep our current building with the cliff wall. So the cleansing and the upkeep will be done the same. Uh landscaping, the plowing, you know, we plan on, you know, keeping it just as nice as we do at the current building. Um my wife and I were a husband wife team. So you know I really appreciate you guys taking the time to listen to the story a little bit. Um alderman's come out there and you set foot on the property. You know um all of our vehicles are uh sourced from like outside of the Midwest. So we're bringing up like rust free inventory to the state of Wisconsin. So we kind of do things a little bit different than a lot of the dealers that just source stuff locally. And um we really take pride in really putting quality vehicles on the lot. So I can promise that there aren't going to be any vehicles that have like missing bumpers or rusted out, you know, that

are dilapidated to the community or anything like that. So um I really appreciate you giving a thought and taking the time to listen. Oh, sure. Thanks so much for your testimony. Could you just repeat your name and address for our clerk for Yeah, it's Brandon Henches, 997 Thornberry Creek Drive in Onida. Okay, great. Thanks again for your testimony. Any questions from alders? All right. Thanks for being here. Anyone else?

Thank you, your honor and members of the council. My name is Jane Jaden. I live at 2905 Timberline Court in Green Bay. I'm here to speak in favor of the resoning. I am a realtor representing the seller that you just heard at Olanichek realy and the property in question. The potential buyer is right next door as you heard and will simply expand his business if the resoning is approved. The sale will have little or no impact on the character of the neighborhood. He's already done a good job of upkeeping everything. On the other hand, and this is more important for us realtors and trying to sell the property, if the resoning is denied, it is going to be very unlikely that a buyer will come along and raise the existing building and develop housing as the plan suggests. I respectfully ask you to approve the request. Thank you so much.

Thanks for your testimony. Any questions? And say hello to Mr. Jaden for us. All right. Anyone else? Entertain a motion. Motion to close the floor made by Alder Profett. Second by Alder Julie. All in favor say I.

Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. The floor is closed. Alder Morgan Hutcherson. I just wanted to uh add a few more things. Uh, first of all, just around the corner, a half a block away, Cliff Ball Oldsmobile ran a automobile sales business there for decades, probably 50, 60 years that I remember. And across the street is apartment buildings and I don't know of any problem that ever occurred at that time. When this went to the planning commission, there was only one dissension. I believe the vote was 5 to one in favor of changing this zoning. And also, as I said, the Starlight Neighborhood Association president was there to check it out. And I just spoke with her last uh Friday at a baseball meeting she attended. And when I mentioned that the planning commission had favored both these items, she was extremely happy and would like to see this done for her neighborhood. also.

Thanks, Alder. Alder Hutchson and Presley and Johnson.

Okay. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Alder Presley, for bringing this up. Um, I'm a member of the plan commission and this was an interesting issue for me to listen to the plan commission. Um, on this issue, this plan commission are sticklers. They know when you change zoning, you don't know what's going to happen in the future. Um, but I live near this area. I drive by it all the time. Go through it all the time. Intersection right there. Um, this isn't going to by changing uh the zoning and the potential that could come. It's not going to potentially change a lot from what is there now. Um, and I think that was recognized by this plan commission because they looked at it and there was a first motion to deny and there was no second and I was kind of floored because I thought it would be uh we can't change the zoning. But these commissioners looked at the site where it was, what the current owners are planning on doing, what the changes of zoning could potentially happen there, and they as a rule pretty much all except for one voted for it, including me. So, I think yeah, changing zoning is potentially uh you know iffy as to what could come in the future, but I think the lay of the land where it is, who's there currently now, I think everyone felt comfortable on the plan commission to approve. Okay. I just want to even though staff recommended against it. Okay. So, um,

I guess that's all I have to say. I'm going to vote for approval of this. It's all Alder Presley Johnson.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, I just want to make sure that we're having a uh comprehensive plan discussion here because it sounds like we're having a conditional use plan discussion. Um, this is I like I I I have no bad feelings about the current owner, no bad feelings about their plan for it. Um but we are looking at reszoning and we are looking at changing the comprehensive plan uh from something that was meant to serve the neighborhood um to you know add to that neighborhood to potentially I mean you know within the changed zoning there could be um a gas station there could be a car wash there could be an auto mechanic and these things that have more of the nuisance quality that you don't necessarily want right next to residential housing. Um, so I'm I'm still in opposition to it. I I sense I'll probably be in the minority there. Um, but yeah, I mean I I live in sort of a similar situation where I'm in uh multif family residential and right next to us there's a car wash. Um, and nobody had any issue with it when it was was a field and now people do have an issue with it. Um, so I think, you know, just because there's not any question about it right now and neighbors haven't come forward right now, especially because I don't believe residents in apartment buildings get those notices. Um, so may not have been aware of the meeting or been aware of what's happening. I can't necessarily, you know, speak to them one way or another, but I'm still against it sort of on the principle of what we're looking at for this neighborhood 25 years in the future, not, you know, next year.

Thanks, Alder. Alder Johnson. Thank you, mayor, and Alder Presley. I certainly appreciate that point, especially, you know, that it's really the comp plan amendment. Um, sometimes we have a tendency to go off track, but sometimes it's easy, uh, to see where that next track is. And so, um, you know, I think the gosh darn thing about car lots is that, you know, city planners really like them. They're like fast food restaurants. The problem is, uh, nobody stops buying cars and nobody stops eating chicken sandwiches. So, you know, these things just keep happening and you need them. And, you know, when you have a a lot that has been built for it and has served that purpose in the past, obviously this is a more um convenient transition, I think, than perhaps trying to establish a new one somewhere. And maybe the the one thing in this which you alluded to, Alder Presley, that I I can appreciate as being a concern is you're opening it up to those other types of uses uh with no clawback mechanism on that. So, I I wanted to ask staff um I I'm assuming at least that the reason the CUP was not considered is because this is not a conditioned use within the ordinance um within this particular zoning code. Is that correct? And in which case, could uh could a PUD be used in its place that would have some parameters on there that it couldn't be used for some of the other undesirable uses?

I think we talked about that at the plan commission. I don't think a PUD would apply here. It wouldn't. Okay. Okay. So, it's not an option. So, it's kind of an all or nothing. Okay. Yeah. This is one of those hard ones, right? The philosophical ones.

Yeah. No, and I appreciate that. And this to me again is where then you have to weigh, right? The good with the bad. And I think um could it be used for housing? Perhaps. It's, you know, but of course you can have a higher site acquisition cost, which drives up the cost of development. And maybe it makes sense, maybe it doesn't. But the problem we have right now is we don't have a buyer sitting here wanting to do that. But we do have someone who's asking for this purpose. and it's a purpose that's been used on this lot uh for many years prior. So I I think I too would support uh the motion uh well not Alder Presley's motion but um to the the recommendation that came out of plan commission. Um biggest thing I want to do is verify though the PUB. So thank you.

Thanks Alder. Uh there is a motion and a second. Uh director Reneer Wig can I just I just like to clarify something. This would really be neighborhood commercial, not not so much housing. But you're right, we're looking at the this is a comp plan change from a comp plan of course we just passed. Um and that's our job as planners to look at the future and great business that you have here. Alderman supports it. But again, we don't know what'll happen in the future when you change zoning and everything's by right and that really is just the the difference is really the use with regards to lighting and noise and traffic and those types of things. It's just a higher density use. So, thanks.

Uh, Alder Profett to just have a quick question as it relates to the zoning director, Reneer Wig. So, C2 to C3 because I the one thing that gives me pause is the permitted use with C2 in some of these uses versus C3. Could you clarify um the difference between the two for me? Cuz I the permitted use, right? like it we're comfortable and we're we're content with the current use that's here. But if that were to go away 10, 15, 20 years from now when my kids are maybe living in that apartment behind it and a gas station could go in with a car wash without ever having to come through this body ever again. Um could you just clarify what the difference between C2 and C3 is for me, please? I think when you're looking at the chart, Alder, it's really um the one the things that would be permitted are like automobile rentals, auto auto sales, car washes, convenience stores, gas stations, mail distribution facilities, motor vehicle repair, businesses that are higher density have the potential to be just louder, noisier, more lights, right?

More of a nuisance. And but on C3 on that same chart there's the C which am I and this could be my misinterpretation. Does the C mean that it would have to be like a conditional use permit that would come through this body instead? Correct. Correct. So what is that designation on our comp plan for C3? What type of is that or am I too disjointed with my where my brain is going? Um is that regional commercial or is that like what is that C3 designation? Well, I think that's regional is the new name in our comp plan, right? That goes from like C2, which was the like highway commercial. Okay. So, it's a higher density commercial.

We're calling that regional now. Okay. That clarifies. Thank you. Because that's if we're going to C2, that just permits all of those uses without ever coming through this body. But C3 in that chart would make it have to come through this body if it were to change. So, um I'm I'm in favor of Alder Presley's amendment, but I too feel I may be in the minority there. All right. Uh, Alder Presley made a motion to deny the amendment to the comp plan that was seconded by Alder Profett. All in favor will say I. Board vote uh requested by Alder Grant. This is on denial.

It's on denial. Correct.

A motion fails 2 to 10. Motion to approve made by Alder Johnson, seconded by Alder E. All in favor will say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. That item has been approved. Now on to item two, which is to approve a request to reszone the properties. Approve. Motion to approve made by Alder Johnson. Seconded by Alder Ritterbush. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say I.

Post nay. The eyes have it. And that item has been approved. On to the report of the finance committee. Motion to approvement by Alder Stevens, seconded by Alder Presley. Any items here to be handled separately? I think we Yeah. Number eight. Any others? Hearing none others. All in favor of the remainder of that report will signify by saying I opposed. Nay. The eyes have it. That report has been approved. The exception of item eight. Uh, Alder Johnson makes a motion to approve item eight. It was seconded by Alder Galvin, I believe. Open the floor. Yeah, Alder Johnson makes a motion to open the floor.

Second. Seconded by Alder Galvin. All in favor will say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. The floor is open. So, this is uh to approve the agreement between the city of Green Bay and One Energy Development. Um so if uh someone would like to speak to the item just approach the podium and state your name and address for us. Uh believe you have a presentation. Yeah. Your slides. Yes.

Um Mr. Wilcat, do you able to pull that up? Hi everyone. Um just while the presentation gets pulled up, um my name is Nolan Stumpf. Um project manager and development with One Energy Renewables. Um 10 North Living Street, Madison, Wisconsin. Um so I just have a short presentation. I'll go through it super fast. Um lots of information, but happy to answer any questions afterwards. Um just to kind of talk through the the project proposal at a high level. um what to expect um if it were to be approved. Um so next slide please.

Oh. Oh great. Okay. Um so a little bit about One Energy and our Midwest um distributed generation team. So uh One Energy Renewables is a um employeeowned independent developer of community scale energy projects. Um, our Midwest team based in Wisconsin focuses on um, development, engineering, construction, um, operating um, all all of the kind of in-house projects throughout the Midwest, predominantly in Wisconsin. Um, we emphasize on projects that interconnect to the distribution grid rather than the transmission system um, and serve the local utility and the the local grid. Um, we're also a public benefit corporation. So, our bylaws um kind of are ingrained to have us um strive to operate in a responsible and sustainable manner. So, the map on the screen shows um our projects in Wisconsin. Uh we have 55 operating in the state. Um that's equivalent to over 50,000 households um average electricity needs. Uh the nearest projects in operation are called Bondwell Solar in the town of H Heartland. Um and then Anigo Forest Solar in the city of Ano. Um this last summer our teams were quite busy building 20 projects uh throughout Wisconsin. Um also in Minnesota and Iowa. Um and two that were um nearby should say they're they're just recently energized. Um we're very excited about our Perch Solar in the town of Vinland. And then um another project in the city of Ano called Anigo Hogan Solar that's actually on um city of Anigo owned um property. So there's kind of three major components that um need to come together for a project solar project to be successful. Um one of those being an interested land owner. Um so in this case that's the city um that is

interested in potentially hosting a solar project for um 30 to 40 years which is the estimated lifetime of the system. Um and then having nearby in infrastructure that can accommodate um that new generation capacity. So, uh there's a substation um next door um and generally being nearby a substation um kind of gives a good indication that the interconnection to the grid will be reasonably economical um and feasible for the e project budget to um interconnect and sell power at a um a rate that's um competitive basically. And then the third being um a suitable site physically. Um so we've done desktop analysis at this point on the site um and kind of has come back as being very suitable for um constructing a solar project. So a little bit about that. Here's kind of a high level um image of the property um on Elgmo Road or Highway uh 54. Um so you can see the um the parcel is landlocked. Um however the substation is right next door and there are um three-phase distribution lines along the highway uh which are kind of necessary um or a good indication of uh of suitable interconnection costs. Um another important thing is um topography or basically um having solar radiance um availability. So this is kind of a map that shows uh hill shade and LAR shade. So, um the part property is free of trees and other there's no tall buildings nearby that would shade the solar panels. Um and it's also relatively flat. So, some other kind of um environmental reviews um at a high level that pass many of our um desktop screenings for

flood planes and wildlife critical habitat. Um there's also no known historical historical sites. Um, and there are wetlands surrounding the property, but not any mapped wetlands um on site. We would um have an environmental contractor do a wetland delineation on the site, but um there are no currently mapped DNR wetlands on site. So, kind of more of the nuts and bolts of the project. Um we use um bfacial solar panels. So, um they're you hear photovoltaic um solar modules. Those are the most common type of um solar panels, solar PV you might also hear. Um they're about the size of a a large door. Um and they absorb sunlight on both sides. A little bit different from like a rooftop system that um only absorbs sunlight on on one side. Um these uh can kind of absorb sunlight that bounces off the ground, vegetation, um snow and that boosts efficiency quite a bit. They also track the sun. So the single axis axis tracker um is the pivot point for the the solar panels to track the sun as it moves throughout the day from east to west. Um the panels themselves are about 8 to nine feet tall at the maximum tilt. Um and then when they're flat in the middle of the day around noon, um they're about six feet tall, that that's all mounted on um steel I-beams. So um those are pretty pretty standard. Um they're driven directly into the soil with a pile driver. Um so no concrete casings or other um fillings in the soil. Um we do uh geotechnical analysis with soil borings. uh before we can do construction to do to kind of

investigate uh the structural engineering and the embedment needs for those piles. Um so it varies but they're driven about 8 to 12 feet into the ground. Uh some other components are inverters and transformers. So the inverters on the left there um are um they convert the DC electricity generated by the solar panels themselves to AC electricity which is what's usable by the the grid and in in homes and by our devices. Um and then to there be two to three transformers on site. Transformers step up the voltage from the project to match what's already on the um the distribution grid. Um, you'd be familiar with transformers outside of a big building like this. They're usually um green, you might have seen. Um, and then the whole project would be enclosed in an agricultural style fence. Um, so it's it's basically an 8ft tall deer fence with woven wire holes. Um, we usually they they come with small holes on the bottom, but we usually flip them so larger holes are on the bottom so that um small mammals and other wildlife can um enter the project and use the um vegetation that we plant as habitat, but the fence is mostly there to keep u people out of the project. So, we also really pride ourselves on um land stewardship. We have a whole um team on staff dedicated to this. Um so the whole project is planted with a permanent perennial vegetation. Um we use a on a lot of our projects a native prairie seed mix which is the plant for this one. Um that features native 30 native Wisconsin prairie species. Um and that once again provides habitat for um

pollinators, small mammals u but also rebuilds soil and um rebuilds nutrients over time and helps the land rest. Um in general our approach is to have a low impact to the land and dual use. So we also have many projects that are grazed by local sheep farmers or the land owner who is a sheep farmer. Um, in general as well, we do less grading um or we hope to do as the least amount of grading on site as possible by basically spending more on steel and having differing lengths of steel piles. Um, you can imagine small hills and valleys in the ground and slightly um longer or shorter steel piles to keep all the panels on the same plane. Um and that really reduces the need to grade everything to the same level. That also makes um it easier to return to egg at the um at the end of the life. That's a requirement in the lease is that all the solar facilities to be removed um and it to be restored to pre-construction conditions. Um, and so that rebuilding the soil, that's why Wisconsin has such great farmland is that we had prairies throughout the whole state. Um, for many, many, many years. Um, so that's part of our goal here as well. I talked through a lot of that, but here's a really nice picture of one of our projects um, out in western Wisconsin. Um so the the prairie management is we have subcontractors that are basically prairie restoration um prairie ecologists that handle that but it's managed um on a a very routine basis and targeted for invasive species removal as well. So some of the um other benefits of the project are these um distributed generation projects as they're called

are a new local source of um generation on the distribution grid. Um that can help reduce the overall cost of and uh basically delay the need for upgrades on the the substations or the um three-phase lines that have basically already been paid for. They're already installed. um but there's not um the full basically utilization of that system. Um it also reduces the need to transmit energy long distances um or import fuel from out of state or out of country. Uh there's also the state of Wisconsin has utility aid payments um which are shared revenue provided to local governments that host projects. Um that is a $5,000 per megawatt payment uh split between the city in this case and the county. Um which on this parcel we'd be estimating likely a 5 to6 megawatt project. So, um, for a 6 megawatt project, that would be $17,000 annually to the, um, city and $13,000 to the county. Um, broken down between a production capacity payment and an incentive P, um, payment through the department of revenue. Uh, these projects also create um, lots of jobs. Solar installer is one of the fastest growing jobs in the US. Uh we work with various Wisconsin based contractors for um electrical engineering procurement um civil and general construction work on these um all of our projects and uh support workforce development with um the Midwest Renew Renewable Energy Association and other partners. Um this map shows u it's basically where all the contractors from the 2025 portfolio um are from. And so really

covering the throughout the whole state. Uh we also love to give tours of our projects um for community groups um nonprofits, schools, you name it. Um so if anyone would be interested in touring a a existing project of ours regardless um we'd be happy to do so. Um that picture on the bottom left is me and my co-workers um with a summer school kind of like sustainability uh elementary school program. Uh we also typically do a a panel donation to the local school district. Um so that's basically just a a donation of panels and money for a balance of systems um to install that system on a a local school in the district. Um and that provides lots of you know tangible kind of opportunities to go and see what where our energy comes from. Um, and also there's the University of Wisconsin um, K K12 energy program we've partnered with to kind of allow schools to have more energy renewable energy curriculum opportunities as well. Um, so they kind of they can provide small kits to to classrooms to kind of build small little grids and um, a lot of cool opportunities with that as well. So yeah, once again, um, happy to answer any questions and appreciate the time and opportunity to speak. Thank you.

Thanks so much for your presentation and for bringing this opportunity to the city. Uh, questions from Alders Alder Bush. Just wondering if what the contractors are uh, organized labor or or not organized labor. Uh, they are all uh, you draw from union contractors. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Alder. Alder Profett. Just confirming you're a point of contact for a field trip. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Other questions? Alder Presley.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, thank you for the presentation. Um, is there I I just read an article today about the lifespan of these photo voltaic cells being longer than anyone expected. Is there is it 30 years? Is that aligned to a lifespan thing or is that just a number?

Yeah. Um, so 30 years is the warranty for the panels. Um, so they're warrantied for 30 years. Um, but we expect them to last longer than that. Um, so it kind of like your a warranty on a car or other big large expense equipment kind of. Um, they are they degrade a very small percentage every year, but it's a known quantity. Um, it's part of the reason why utilities really like these projects is because they know exactly how much energy they're going to get from them depending on the weather at every moment. Um, it's extremely predictable. Um, so so yeah, 30 years is is the general lifespan, but we expect them to last longer than that.

All right. Thank you. Any other questions? Um, I know, you know, one thing that maybe came up at committee or from individual elders, um, was this idea, and you touched on this, but the the proximity to the substation. I think that's why some of the alders were thinking, um, you know, the the the lease payment maybe should be a bit higher as a result of that. Um, can you speak to to that that question a little bit?

Yeah. Um, so proximity substation is a really good indicator for um, basically line capacity. Um but it's it's not a tell all. Um so we we have had projects that are as close or even at like essentially closer to a substation right across the street um where the interconnection cost has come back. Basically, we the public service commission has regulations where developers submit a project to um the utility that owns the equipment. Um and they do an engineering review and study the project to see what those um kind of physical improvements would be needed to the line and or the substation to accommodate that new power. Um and that's it's kind of a a black box for us. We don't we don't know what that cost is going to be. Um and so being say within a half mile of a substation is a good indicator that the cost will be uh we can stomach the cost essentially but it's it's not necessarily a onetoone that being right next door means extremely low interconnection costs. Uh the hope would be to interconnect it straight to the substation since it's so close but um we we don't know if there is room to do that. So, it it may need an underground medium voltage line to go um basically buried to the highway and then up um back up to the three-phase lines along the highway. Um but we we don't know that. Um we aren't allowed to submit a project to interconnection study until we have a lease signed. Um so, just kind of some unknowns there. Um another point would be that access to the location since it is landlocked is an unknown. Um there are um mapped wetlands between the subject parcel and the

substation. So if we cannot get access to the north to the highway, um we would have to access the site through that way and that would be quite costly to engineer um that access road. So there's I guess a couple uh budget questions that limit us to be able to increase the lease rate. Okay. Yeah. And I mean you kind of touched on this right at the tail end of your comments there, but can you more directly comment on the 800 versus thousand which the you know the committee made that change?

Yeah. So um we we basically we can't um offer a higher lease rate because of the the unknown budget. Um in general we're solar projects are competing. They are in general on a levelized cost of energy standpoint um with utility scale solar the cheapest or utility scale wind the cheapest forms of electricity generation in Wisconsin. Um but on a project bypro basis, we still want to compete with other generation sources. So the budgets are uh I'll just be frank quite tight. Um and with uncertainties and interconnection um geotech analysis is another thing is that we don't authorize the contractors to do those soil borings and do the um the basically kind of it's really intrusive work. They kind of bring a pile driver out and test piles um and drive them into the ground and let them sit there, come out with computers and hook things up to them to test u kind of how the piles react to different forces throughout the year. Um so those are all like really high cost items that we're not sure how they will pan out at this point unfortunately.

Okay, thanks. Uh any other question, Alder Grant? Thank you. And am I correct that at this point prior to the project going up, there is no um I guess measurable impact of how it could benefit residents as far as renewable energy, right? Like costs or anything like that. There's nothing we could say by implementing this, the residents of Green Bay would save this amount on their uh UPS or WPS bills. Um yeah, I would not be able to comment directly on that. myself. Okay. Thank you. Questions from committee or from council?

Alder Johnson? Yeah, I would just maybe offer um actually uh sorry, we're still in the question period. Yeah, I was thinking comments on the item. No problem. Any other questions? All right. Thanks so much for your testimony. Motion to close the floor made by Alder Profit, seconded by Alder E. All in favor will say I. I oppose. Nay. The eyes have it. Um, and before I don't know if you're proposing a motion, Alder. Um, I would just uh request uh discussion in close session. Yeah. Okay. Motion to uh enter close session made by Alder Profett.

Seconded by Alder Hinkfist. Um, somebody have the language? Yeah. Alder Profett. Common Council may convene in close session pursuant to section 19.85 subsection 1 subsection E Wisconsin statutes for purchase of per purposes of deliberating or negotiating the purchasing of public properties the investing of public funds or conducting other specified public business whether competitive or bargaining reasons require close session. Common council may thereafter reconvene an open session pursuant to section 19.85 85 subsection 2 to report the results of the closed session and consider the balance of the agenda. Right. Thank you, Alder. Uh board vote is required here. So we will do that.

Said no. All right, the motion passes 11 to one. Uh, so we are in close session.

Recording stopped.

All right. I would entertain a motion to return to regular order. Moved by Alder Profett, seconded by Alder Stevens. All in favor, we'll say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. We are back in open session. Alder Grant. All right. motion to amend or I'm sorry, amend the motion to designate authority to the mayor to approve the agreement between the city of Green Bay and One Energy Development LLC for a land lease and solar easement on parcel 22- SC-513 subject to the terms and terms discussed in close session.

Is there a second for that? Seconded by Alder. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say I. I oppose. Nay. The eyes have it. And that item has been approved. All right. Do you want to park committee? Motion to approve made by Alder Presley, seconded by Alder E. Any items here to be handled separately. Uh item one. Any others? Hearing none others. Um we'll approve the balance of the agenda with the exception of item one. All in favor say I. I

opposed. Nay. The eyes have it. The report has been approved. The exception of item one. Um, Alder Johnson on that.

Maybe just a question for Director Ditchite. Um, I have no problem with this. In fact, I think this is long overdue. I'm actually happy to see that this is moving forward. Um, you know, appreciating your notation about anything wider that would generate that access for the public and, you know, wanting to maybe be able to have that conversation at a later date around competitive uses to Bay Beach. Just curious if you guys have ever talked about any type of negotiation, right, of first refusal, perhaps on the island under the Bay Beach umbrella. No, we've never had those discussions seriously. Um, you know, we in passing staff has briefly discussed it, but nothing really to the point where uh we've talked about details of how that would work and whether or not we'd even want to entertain that. Right. And I just of course I think about I mean some of the things contained in that plan are very complimentary to wildlife sanctuary. other items could be very complimentary to Bay Beach itself, like the motorboats and the lagoon. Is that a lagoon?

I don't know what the right term is. Anyway, but uh you know, I'm just wondering if there's maybe some I don't think I would put this on here as a as a binding condition, but I would make a motion um to approve the easement and ask staff to um converse with county officials about acquiring a right of first refusal on uses at Renard Island. Is there a second for that? Seconded by Alder Galvin. Motion was made by Alder Johnson adding the right of first refusal. Any additional comments on that, Director Ditchite?

No, like I said, we can we can entertain those discussions. Uh if anything comes out of that, we can always bring it back to committee for consideration. Um and we'll see where the conversation goes. Okay, great. Any other comments from councel? Seeing none. All in favor say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. Uh the item has been approved. Report of the personnel committee. Motion to approve made by Alder Profett. Seconded by Alder Dele. Items here to be handled separately. Hearing none. All in favor will say I.

Post nay. The eyes have it. That report has been approved. Traffic, bicycle, and pedestrian commission. Motion to approve by Elder Stevens. Seconded by Alder Profett. Items here to be handled separately. Hearing none. All in favor say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. that report has been approved. Um, sustainability just has someformational items that I would direct you to. Um, and then next isformational landmarks commission semianual report. Alder Hutcherson had some comments there.

Thank you, mayor. Um, I just want to give a 30 second summary of what this information is and I invite you to look at it. Um, the uh the landmarks commission has been doing an effective job Um this past six months the commission itself has reviewed eight uh certificate of appropriateness that's the COA um and approved them all. uh staff has reviewed 19 COAs in this time frame and they've approved them all and since inception in in 2018 375 COAs have been submitted. Nine have been denied. Five of those nine were revised by the applicant and approved. The four remaining were appealed to common counsel. two were upheld and two were overturned. So that that's a lot of work and it's it's work to maintain the historical value within the city of Green Bay. I just wanted to bring this up to let you know that the landmarks commission is alive and well and doing their work.

Thank you. Thank you, Alder. Thanks to you, Alder. Uh next is resolutions. Motion to suspend the rules and take up these items with one roll call vote made by Alder Profett. Second by Alder Hinkfist. Any discussion hearing? None. All in favor say I. I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. The rules are suspended.

Motion to adopt. Made by Alder Profit, seconded by Alder Ritterbush. Any discussion? We'll use the board. Yes. All right. Resolutions are approved. 120. Ordinance is first reading. Motion to suspend the rules. Take up these items with one roll call vote made by Alder Profit. Second by Alder Dele. All in favor will say I.

Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. The rules are suspended. Motion to advance made by Alder Presley, seconded by Alder Profett. Discussion. Seeing none, all in favor say I. Oppos? Nay. The eyes have it. And those ordinances are advanced to a second and final reading. Motion to adjurnn. Made by Alder, seconded by Alder Ritterbush. All in favor say I. Post. Nay. You guys have it. We're journ. Thanks everyone. So listen, enjoy it all. Can I just recording stopped?