Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Did you know her before? Oh, I had mentioned somehow that was on. They're talking about growing so much. Yeah, I see the plan. Okay, it's 7 o'clock

and we're recording and we're online. Okay, super. I call the meeting of the Grantsville City Planning Commission to order on Tuesday, May 5th, 2026 at 7 o'clock at the Grantsville City Hall, 429 East Main Street, Grantsville, Utah. We'll do a roll call around the table. Cameron Molton, present. Thank you, Cameron. John Montgomery, present. Thank you, John. Jason Hill, present. Jerry Merrill, present.

Jerry, thank you. Sarah Moore, present. If I'd like to invite you to stand for the pledge of allegiance with me to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

Okay. A couple weeks ago, we changed the format of the meeting. So, for tonight's public hearing items, I just want to remind everyone that our format is staff presentation on the agenda items. If there is a public hearing related to those agenda items, we will have the individual public hearing with the individual item. So your public comment can be taken after staff presentation and then we will bring those items back to the commission for discussion and consideration. So during the public comment portion, please keep in mind that each speaker is limited to three minutes and please state your name and address for the record. And if you haven't signed in on the sign-in sheets, please make sure you do that, too. And uh it's important to note that the commission cannot answer questions or engage in dialogue during the public comment. That's really your time for your thoughts and feelings to be entered into the public record, not ours. Okay. Um so we will move on to agenda item number one which is uh the presentation public hearing discussion and consideration for the amendments the proposed amendments to the Grantsville land use ordinance section 4.5. Welcome Shelby.

Hi guys.

Hi. Been a while. Um so in 4.5 it states that no lot be longer than it is uh or three times longer than it is wide. So for example in the R121 which is a halfacre lot 21,780 ft with 70 foot frontage and 210 ft in length at max. That's only 14,500 square ft. That doesn't make sense. Um that means that the lot would need to be wider than what the minimum allowance is. And so u I am proposing to reduce that so that it says no lot containing 14,000 square feet or less shall be created which is more than three times as long as it is wide. So essentially that would capture our R12s, RM7s, R15s. So

thank you. I appreciate you catching that. Um, do we have a public hearing on this item? It says we do. Yep. Okay. Um, have questions? Yeah. Do you Does anybody have questions for Shelby on this be that might answer some comments during the public hearing? No questions. I like it. Okay. Jason Gary, I would agree. I like how it just concise and cleans it up a little bit. Okay. John, I'm just curious how it came about. I I don't know how well now you're reading your your man your code and you decide if that came across.

Yeah. So I mean as as I was reviewing plans it was questioned well you know I'm in a half bigger lot. How am I supposed to get sure get my square footage if it can't be three times longer? And so I mean it yeah it just doesn't work. So but as far as the creation of that I'm not sure that came about. I just spent year change but that's good. I'm fine. It's done. No, nothing. Okay.

Okay. We will begin. Uh, sorry. We will open this item for public hearing then. If somebody would like to make comment to it, uh, please approach the podium and state your name. Hey, I don't see anybody that has any concerns about this here to speak on that tonight. Do we have anybody online? If you're online, please raise your hand so you can be turned on to speak. No, no, please raise their hand.

Nothing ted. Okay. All right. Uh, we will close the public hearing and bring this back for to the commission for consideration. Um, does anybody have any other thoughts or comments on this? I'll entertain a motion then. I'll make a motion. I move to recommend approval of the city council for the proposed amendments to the Grantsville land use ordinance section 4.5 lot standards and street furniture as presented in the staff report. I'll second.

All right. Um all in favor.

Great. That passes unanimously and we will close. I agenda item number one and open agenda item two and this is a presentation discussion uh public hearing says on the agenda consideration of an appeal by Teresa Alex for the planning zoning administrators denial of a kennel permit. Uh that would usually Oh, the kennel permit for six dogs and a conditional use permit for 12 chickens, hence only at 176 East Elizabeth Court located in the R121 zoning district due to a failure to meet open space requirements. I shall be

um so just a little background. So on January 14th, a notice was sent out saying, "Hey, you have to you're not meeting the open space requirements. Um then the applicant applied obviously we are not doing the open space requirement. So then I have to deny that and then the next step is to come to you guys to determine if you're going to uphold my decision in the code or if you are going to for variance. So just a kind of a usual one that we do. Um, you can see here we've done the 100 foot radius and it leaves about 1,000 square feet with that 100 foot set back from other residential homes. Even though I mean if you look at our property it's it's a very large property. It's just unfortunate what the setbacks.

Yes. It's something people don't think about, I guess, when they set their house so far back on the property. It's probably longer than 30 feet, I'm guessing. Yeah. I mean, it's just meeting the front yard set back at 40 ft. So, 40. Okay. Because it's a larger lot.

Does anybody have any discussion points for this item before we open up for public hearing? Just from my understanding. So on something like this, that's so that's 300 and some odd square feet short. But if that did have enough, does that mean the animals are supposed to be only housed in the green box or is it opened up to be anywhere? Oh, they're supposed to be only housed in the green. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. I call it a box. I know my shapes. That green polygon box. What is that shape? Okay. Nothing.

Can you clarify because I think I read this and I I read it twice, but I want to make sure I understand correctly. The current code allows for how many animals per um site and I know that there's a kennel you can apply for a kennel permit which allows you to have more animals, but I'm curious where can you review what the code says on this again so I make sure I understand it correctly.

So the kennel requirement because she has six dogs would require 9,000 square feet. uh the uh chickens or you know the poultry would require only 1,400 square feet. So she would need a total of 10,400 square feet. Um so with the chickens it requires 100 ft of open space um and then per animal. And then I believe the dog one is it's 4,000 it's a thousand square feet um of open area and then 4,000 square ft of additional open space for each animal over five asking for quite a bit of open space

and those were reduced. They were analyzed and reduced like eight months ago because we wanted or was it just the horses that we reduced the large chickens? Okay. Cows. I did have a question after all. What could she have under current? She could have dogs. Three dogs. She could have one dog and that's it. or she could um have three family pets just in her house if they're not outside. Um or she could have 60.

Did that answer your question? Yes. Thank you. Okay, Gary. I don't have any questions. Okay. And I think that I read that this all started because it it was a nuisance to the neighbors. And so we had a zoning uh code enforcement person come by and make a determination that she was over what the city allowed.

Um and I appreciate you also including the HOA regulations for this area because it didn't seem like this even fit into was allowable with the HOA guidelines. Do we know or maybe this is a question for when um when we come back after the public hearing is that okay? So um Bransville uh estates is not an HOA. There's no PUD. There's no HOA. This is one that had it does have CCNRs but an HOA has never been established.

Oh. has CCNR recorded against all the lots but not the a homeowners association hasn't been created by the but they're still valid the CCNR still so when we moved in because we moved out here specifically for no HOA no CCNRs and stuff and we were told that there was none and um my neighbor here was told the same thing

so usually if there's CCNRs in place you would go that's the first place you would go to get a letter of consent or authorization to be beyond what is recorded. Now, unfortunately, sometimes if there's not an active forward for your CCNRs to be implemented, um you know, nobody nobody knows and the recorder when you buy the property should do that title search, right? That that they'll be of record soon, right? But actually when we bought our property, we had a title search done and we didn't receive any CCNRs from that search either. So I can feel your frustration there. But

um and then um so with the the six dogs, I mean we live on a half acre. We moved out here to kind of have a homestead. I understand when I was looking up the limit, I found somewhere and I I wasn't able to find it again that you could have 22 chickens. Um, and we didn't always have as many as we have right now. So, we are not looking the h the dogs. Two of them are legally registered. The two Shih Tzus are legally legally registered as social emotional support dogs. And then we have two um miniature schnowzers that are um going to be 13 and they'll be gone, you know, sooner than later. Then we have a boxer and um that is now three and now our German Shepherd is now two. Uh the German Shepherd I'm training to be a service dog. Um but there's also an issue with finances and stuff and getting that legally registered. We are not looking to build a kennel out there. Um we they're house dogs. Um the two bigs go over to my neighbor's house during the day and play with their big dogs and they wear each other out and they come home and crash. It's a win-win for both of us. Um, and then I think the complaint because um, earlier last summer and the batch of chickens that we got, we ended up with three roosters. Those were cold and you know, a neighbor talked to us about it and we got rid of them. Um and then um another neighborhood a neighbor told us to get some geese because to protect our chickens from the dogs because our dogs got into the chickens a couple of times and killed some. Um the geese I think are the problem. And the geese as soon as the weather

warms up and soon as the school year gets out they will be gone because they are they are getting to be very mean. I think it's mating season right now and they're very mean and they won't be around and they're the biggest noise makers. Um I do make our you know I I sell the eggs to neighbors and I also make dog food with the eggs. Um, and I don't I you know the support I can I I agree the the what we have is too many right now and they'll be you know haved and you know I'll I've tried selling them tried giving them away um and so I'll be processing them this summer so to get the numbers down but I would ask for 12 birds to support you know to to support feeding.

And I'm I'm sorry, I should have asked you to state your name when you came to the podium, just for the record. Yes, I'm I'm I'm Teresa and I live at 176 East Elizabeth Cove.

Oh, Teresa, I'm sorry I didn't pronounce your last name right. Please forgive me. Um, and um, I've also been asking neighbors or figuring out how we can move the shed over to that green area. Um, and I haven't found a way to do that to to move the chickens um, over there. Um, but there's plenty of room for the dogs to run and get their energy out. And like I said, they are inside dogs. We're not trying to kennel them. And I think my neighbor wants to say something.

Okay. So, thank you, Teresa. That informs um further discussion or questions. We'll open it up now um for public comment and then we'll go from there. So, uh please approach podium and state your name. That would be great. I'm a bit shy. That's okay to know. No need to be nervous.

My name is Jenna Silva. I live at 181 East Elizabeth Cove. I I moved to GR in December uh 2023. Um and again, I'm here tonight to support my neighbor Teresa boats and in her appeal. Um and my husband and I, we choose to move to Grville. Um we did so very intentionally. Sorry, I had to cheat because Oh, that's great. That's okay. I need cheat sheets, too.

Um, we both strong here because of the rural character um of this community and the space, the lifestyle and understand that people here value more agricultural uh and animal friendly way of of living. That's part of what makes our Gruntsville happy and special. I'm I'm Brazilian. Um my my husband is is Canadian a and um he worked in in mining. So we have lived in 90 of places in six different countries and we really love here. Um from our perspective what's being requested six dogs and those of the hands um knowing that four of dogs are pretty old and they're they're super tiny. Um, and the other two big ones I I confirm what she said. They they spend lots of time with my big dog in my in my backyard. It's like a win-win in play aligns with what we choose to live in this community. Um, between understanding the zoning regulation exist for good reason including concerns about the space noise and our neighborhood compatibility. But I would encourage the commission to think about and consider her situation versus the our rural lifestyle that people come here for. Um, this is not about pushing our boundaries, but it's about maintaining the character of our grim. So, um, let me just make this short. Uh I I really love here and I would appreciate any any consideration and uh Teresa is a very good collector and she really loves our animals. We all see that. Would appreciate it. Thank you.

Hey, is there anybody else that would like to enter public comment into the record regarding this item? If there's anybody online? No. No. No. Okay. Thank you, Ty. Um, we will bring this back then for discussion and consideration and close the public hearing on agenda item number two. Um, you want to go? Yeah. So, a couple of questions. First, does the code allow for any extra animals based on them being service and or emotional support animals?

You have attorneys. Well, those don't count um towards the um towards the count and and so those would if there are um service animals then then those are not certified. Yeah. Two are not are legally registered social emotional sport and one is in training for service dog.

So that would leave um three dogs not accounted for. Um, so that would be 3,000 square ft that um she would potentially need and then plus the chicken. So, as um her neighbor was talking, I did pull up and measure the square footage of the property was from the back of her house here, and that's a total of 6,000 square foot area, which as a animal wasn't plenty enough for home for chickens and dogs, but again, I was just following the code. And then I my second question would be not having been to a lot of these and seen this, what's the history of the city allowing variances on um appeals like this? What's the precedent that the city has existing right now?

Um I don't think you guys have said no. So really since I've been here, the variance runs with the land and this is a conditional use permit. Okay. That um may take um nuisances under consideration and put a lot of time and effort on our uh code enforcement folks to visit and address issues that come up. Um the do the conditional use permits they have to be re renewed annually and then also the kennel permits need to be paid for annually. This is the kennel permit and the dog licensing is renewed annually. The conditional use but it can be pulled at any time. Yes.

So it's not like a a variance for a kennel run with the land maybe if the land was Okay. So the wrong word. Okay. I see you. Okay. I got to use I just want to make sure that we're all very clear about what we're talking about here because the conditional use you could get one today and have a poll tomorrow. Okay. Long term. Okay. Um and in in in the past our our precedent has been that uh neighbors have not um voiced a uh negative concern. So typically when they come forward it's neighbors are supportive and there isn't a a a complaint that is is pending. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, thank you Tyson.

And I'm like I said I think the geese are the issue and most be gone. Okay, that's the only questions I had. And it's hard to set a precedent because every situation is different. Like the lady with the horse that didn't have enough square footage is different than this. And so I wanted to do like a comparison and and have things consistent or at least a baseline, but it's so hard to do in a year. I haven't been able to do that. So just take them as they come, try to make the best decisions. So Okay. Do you have any other questions? No, that's it for me. Thank you.

I don't have any questions. I would just say though that I don't think there's been any error in interpreting the code and the evidence is clear and supported the decision. And I think that the city's the commission or the zoning administrators acted within their discretion properly. It's hard to overturn that decision because we don't have a basis to do it. Jason,

um, from what Tyson just said, can you clarify then if if three of the dogs don't count, then we're down to three dogs, which is under the limit. And then So, how does that was that assessed when you when you made that determination to said that it would not qualify for what they were asking for with the city. I'm trying to make sure I balance that with what we're saying here. So, um, I wasn't aware and typically Nicole handles the conditional use permits. I wasn't aware that three of them were um uh for that use, but still she would need 3,000 square ft for the remaining three dogs and then another,000 square feet for the chickens that she has. And so

you said we just showed that there was 4,000 square feet back there. So would that match what's there? I'm trying to understand, I guess. No. So right now in the green there's only a thousand. Oh, because of the because of the buffer from the top of houses. Gotcha. But if you don't take the buffer into account, there's 6,000 square feet back there. Gotcha. Sorry. I I get what you're saying now. Okay. So, I heard it differently. Yeah. Our attorney, the dogs are not exempt is what you said because they're service. They are exempt. Yes. So we cannot take into account the service animals as we are saying how many a citizen can have as they are exempt and I guess

and that's for uh training service animals and training retired service animals and active service animals. So technically you're only looking at three dogs and well chicken but you're Thank you Jason. I heard it that way too, John. So, thank you for clarifying like and legally have three dogs. I'm sorry. Um, public comment is closed. I'm sorry. Um, did you have any other questions right now? Questions, Gary? So, Shelby, the nuisance report, was it stated which animal was causing the nuisance or they just reported a nuisance at the property?

Just a nuisance. noise from the that it says noise from the ducks and chickens. Were a couple emails that the city received that were emailed to you that had had complaints in it, which is I think why Tyson mentioned that in the past when we've considered these and allowed it as a conditional use. There hadn't been a push back, but there was three two of them

that were really strongly worded. In fact, it's I thought I heard it's been the opposite, but you've had neighbors come in and support no complaints. It's kind of maybe I even ask the homeowner. I mean, you said you're going to wait until schools out to remove the geese. Is there a reason why we're waiting until June to make that happen? Teresa, do you want to come back up to the podium? Yes.

So, school is out on May 22nd. Um, they would have already been gone, but we got sick when the weather warmed up. So, we have to have warmer weather to run the water and everything to process them. Um, and so it's just a matter of balancing, you know, me being a teacher and having the time on the weekends and stuff to be able to process them. Um, but they've also the this is neither here nor there, but the geese have started attacking some of our chickens. And so they're the first to go. And I think those are the ones that are the main problems. And that that's the real issue right there because we got rid of the roosters, like I said, that our neighbors talked to us about. And um but the geese, they're they're gone basically. Could you as soon as I can? Sorry.

Oh, you're fine. Go ahead. Sorry, Teresa. Could you put a time frame on when you called the roosters? I called them um just as it was it was um in the fall um just right before it was it was getting a little bit too cold and I called some other neighbors worsters and stuff. I had I called 12 chickens and four ducks. Um,

I learned I learned how I learned how to I learned how to process birds because they were giving them to us to to call because um I'm not the only one that has So right now um we have um 25 chickens and then um our ducks um we have eight ducks and then the two beasts. But I I want to get rid of all but six chickens, keep six ducks, and get rid of the the rest because the duck eggs, they I I go through 30 duck eggs every single week when I'm making dog food and stuff to feed the dogs. Yes.

Gary, did you have other comments? Sorry, I didn't mean to in cut you off. No, but I I mean I look at the the square footage that you it's allowable that that's available and I just keep thinking like if you have a dog, how do you how do we expect the homeowners do they put up are we expecting homeowner to put up a electronic fence to say, "Hey, when they let the dog out, you can only go here and that's a hard part. If they were keeping like the dogs in the kennel, yeah, they would have to build a fence there." But it sounds like they're inside animals. And so she could let them out, run around, and then bring them back in.

And maybe the the size requirement is dispersing what could cause a buildup of uh nuisance smells and flies and things as things are spread out as the animals do. And having them in a smaller area produces more nuisance smells and other things, noises and stuff. Gary, do you have anything else? I don't think so. Could you talk to me about what's on your sideyard there? Are those all kennels or dogous or chicken?

So, that's that that that main one that you have the cursor on. That's where most of the chickens stay. And then the bigger shed, um, the ducks sleep in there, um, at night. And so I'm trying to figure out how to move the shed over to the green area. And by me getting rid of all the birds, we just need to move the one shed and the big shed can be used up there. So they have this area, this whole area on the west side of the house is fenced off for the birds and for a garden. Um you can see two troughs up there at the top by the gate. Um, in this area from the shed, the big shed on is supposed to be a garden, but they have plenty of run. Um, and um, yeah, they they've got they've got plenty plenty of roaming area

for 25 chickens in that little area. Yeah, they Yeah, they're Yeah, it's not that little, but um because each chicken for to for an area, the each chicken is supposed to have four square feet to roam according to, you know, what's healthy and stuff for them, but they have that entire area to go. But like I'm not going to have as many as I have right now. Okay. Um, so I'm I'm not I am a terrible judge of distance and so but I'm thinking that your fenced area there where you're currently where your checks are are less than 50 ft from the adjoining property in the house from the residential structure.

That's part of the problem. So we move it away that green area is 100 ft away. Are those on foundations? Because they are in like a what we would call this the the little one is on like two feet of of rocks and the other one is just a thin layer of rocks and to prevent it from sinking in the mud that we have out here. Um but the other one doesn't need to be moved. It's just a little one. Um and I I'm open to suggestions on how to get that moved. I've called Tough Shed. I've called my neighbors and can't figure it out yet. We're not young like we used to be. Oh yeah, it's tough. We can't just pick it up and move it. We tried it once. It's a lot of work.

Yeah. So I have to take down the fence or move the fence to be able to pull it out and move it over. Um so it's going to take a lot of work this summer to to get it into into compliance. So to get the shed moved and stuff. Yeah, it's going to take a lot of work. And I'm sorry about that. When you say that area is fenced, does it also have a top fencing or is it just open because birds don't generally stay in their area? They fly, right? Yeah. So, the chickens um they don't they don't jump the fence.

Um we had one that did and it ended up dead because of the dogs, but that was it. Um and um but no, the ducks don't fly. The chickens don't fly. I just remember visiting my sister's farm and the birds were in the trees all over and of course she lives in New York and there's foxes and eagles and things that will grab the open container. And I I know that I'm I know that I'm not the only neighbor that has that amount of chickens in the neighborhood either. And I know there's multiple balance.

Yeah. Probably the only reason you're here is because we got complaints and that just was the rock rolling down the hill. Teresa,

I know. Um, but the one thing that I am concerned about is the impact on that one neighbor where that is so close and and um it's hard to keep chickens beds clean um and sanitary and we're always fighting nuisance flies and and standing water creates mosquitoes and having too many chickens in an enclosed area creates sickness, right? Like the flu or whatever. So, so um can I can see that that no on the other side of the fence that in between those two circles right there right back.

So right here the way that the builder built this property all the water accumulates right here um in this area. It's a It's a natural pond that comes just a low point. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's there's like a river that runs down here and and then out. It's supposed to run out to the street, but they never built any anything to collect the water and um so it just pulls it just pulls right here. And we are good friends with these the Louiswis's and um you know when they mentioned the roosters and stuff we took it you know to complaint you know we took it to heart and we got rid of them and stuff. So they they I believe I mean we've asked them since the complaint was made as well if they were bothering him and stuff like that and they're not here but they they were fine with you know it is right up against the property line but um they're fine with it as far as the way it stands right now but the other than the geese but I do need to move those to be in compliance.

Yeah, these um letters that we received um can you can you tell me what the letters were? Um well, they were complaints and they've chosen to remain an anonymous. So, um but they have both been received within the last month or so. Um well, three let's see 316 and 15. I I fed on that. Sorry. And there's one 48. There's 48. There's a 40 is 40. Thank you. Um that's where I saw I thought there was just two maybe.

Um so since the fall and removing the roosters, we still have had complaints come through. And I mean I know that I can understand the desire to um do homesteading type of activities and try to maintain a lifestyle that you've chosen that you you've moved out to the country for. But we also have to consider the impact on your neighbors and the impact on our um code enforcement hoax. Um because the Grantsville is growing but our support is not. And um I just I want you to um I want you to I just wanted to be sure that you understood um the kind of nuisance that this this has kind of brought and not that it is

can't be mitigated but yeah because I do try to keep the area clean and everything and we um um the The chickens eat one type of bug and the ducks eat another type, you know. Um, yes. When we had bass bad grasshoppers a couple years ago, I wish I had chickens. That's just

I gnats that come every summer, whatever. They're not a problem on our property right now because they eat them. But, um, they also eat down the weeds, which is nice. Um, but yeah, um, I'm not I'm not asking to keep them the amount that I have right now, but I am asking for at least 12. Um, and six is the standard right now. Okay. Um, thank you. Jason, did you have any other thoughts? Okay, John Cameron,

I think I would just say like something like this, what I would like to see is obviously there was a conditional use permit applied for. There's some plans. It would have gone a long way to see some of these plans carried out before we got to this point, I guess, is what I would share is some action towards the resolution is what I would like to see. That would make me feel better on these types of things. So, that's all I want to say. Gary, I agree with what Cameron said. So,

it's kind of one of these things. It's easier to get forgiveness and permission. That's kind of what we're asking here for, but it's a tough one because like you said, it's each one of them has own little nuances and stuff to deal with. But, I mean, just reading some of the stuff, I still think even the three dogs and the the geese and the ducks and the chickens, it's a lot a little small yard. I know it's a halfacre lot, but you just have a lot of a lot of animals crammed into that small little spot.

And just as a reminder, the planning commission does have the ability to do a temporary conditional use permit. That way, you can issue a conditional use permit if there's any complaints received. Um, we can bring it back to the planning commission for appropriate evaluation.

Okay. and I appreciate that, but I I feel torn because I want Teresa to be able to use her property and do with it what she wants, but at the same time, we have to protect um we have that commitment to protect all of the land owners. Um so, I'm just I'm not sure where this one's going to end up actually, but uh if there's no other conversation, we'll entertain a motion. I'll make a motion. I move to approve the appeal. Excuse me. I move to approve the appeal. I don't want to approve. I move to deny the appeal of the zoning administrator's denial of a kettle permit. Kennel permit for six dogs and conditional use permit for 12 chickens, hens at 176 East Elizabeth Court. Based on the findings as outlined in the staff report,

you move to deny the appeal. Deny the appeal. Sorry about that. So, we're upholding the zone the zoning administrator's determination. That is my motion. Yeah. Thank you. Second. Okay. Second. Any other discussion? Okay. All in favor? I Okay, it passes unanimously. Teresa, I'm sorry. Thank you for your time. We're okay with the dogs, but not with the birds. That's what I understand. Is that correct? Um, the three of them being indoor dogs, they're all all of them are indoor dogs. Yeah. Three. Yes. The amount of birds. That's what I've always

should do. Do we need to define an allowance for the birds based off of then the rest of the I think we just so the indoor dogs is still limited to three and that would be your third your three service dogs right no those don't count those don't count okay so if we take the dogs out of the equation for the open space that's available which is 1,00 square feet 1 1700 I'm so dyslexic I had it I had it right there. Hold on.

Okay. So, for household pets, she can have three dogs in the animals um in the mun code under um uh under title 4. And so then she with the square footage, she can have up to 10 chickens on the property with the 1,71 square feet that's remaining. So that's total chickens and ducks, right? because they're like the same size. Yes. Okay. So, any variance of chickens and ducks? Sounds like we're okay with the dogs because three are in consideration. Yep. And a mixture, but we do need those.

Yeah. You're going to need So, bring in Phil to fill the natural pond. That's I would recommend. I'm not telling you. Of course, you're not obligated to follow that, but um filling in that pond, the natural con would be helpful. I've had friends who have gotten logs and put lifted up one side and they just roll on logs their sheds that way instead of taking it all the way apart. Um moving a fence, I don't know if it's concreted in, but No, it's So, the chicken run needs to be within the green. Is that the rule?

Yes. So, if you could amend your motion and at least clarify how many Okay. If she have Yes, we should have thought about that first and then it just needs to be moved to the area. And it's 10. Shouldn't that be you that does that though? No, because she's appealing my decision and so we're here with the conditional use permit and that bill. So, you denied the appeal. So, we're we're entertaining the conditional use permit now. Yes. I'm still I'm shut. So just Yeah. So 10 10 foul is what's allowed. Is that what we're saying? Okay.

So you're going to need to help us. What's our motion phrase like then? Is it still a conditional use permit then? Because it's it's no longer conditional at that point, right? Because she's within not under the reg. No, she's permitted at six and it's conditional. Oh. For family food. Oh, permitted for six under the regulations as it's written now. The conditional use, we can reduce that to 10 based off the square footage removing the dogs from the formula. Correct. So, you're upholding the bill and you're allowing for 10 10 total file. Yeah. With a conditional use permit that could be easy.

Do you want to try to restate it then? give you that. So, we have some conditions though, right? Okay. So, can we maybe a cure doc? I' I'd say conditions that I would like to see then that the geese need to be removed by June 1st and then a total of 10 fouls, however that number is between chickens and ducks, a maximum of 10 birds no matter what. And if there's a complaint about specifically the birds that needs to be revoked. Okay, I think I got it. I like it. I would like to make a motion

like playing clue. I move to allow a conditional use permit um for So you're we're going to move to uphold the asking Shelby. I want you to tell me what to say to move uphold the appeal the denial. Denial. Okay. By the planning and zoning administrator. And you are going to allow 10 foul. Okay. We're going to remove the geese. Gotcha. By June 1st and allow 10 foul and move the buildings. And move the buildings and any complaint specifically with the bird review invitation.

Yes. Okay. I move to uphold the denial by the planning and zoning administrator and will allow up to 10 foul with the foul enclosure being moved within the green area outlined within the agenda item with the geese being removed by no later than June 1st. I think your chances of no complaints go way up if you move it to green. Yes, we have a second. Second. Okay. We need to attach a time frame to move it to the green. Is that six months? Six months. Okay. I'll just go do an inspection on Okay.

Six months. We need to restate the whole thing again. No. No. Okay. Six months. Okay. That's okay. Okay. All right. Have a motion. Second. We're volunteers just for the record. All in favor? I. Okay. Passes unanimously. Thank you, Teresa. Okay, we will close that item for everybody. Yeah, that was good. Had like six vaccine drivers. And I was volunteer to try to get that one out.

Okay, we'll close agenda item two. Move on to agenda. Item three, presentation, discussion for proposed concept for the leave property in the mixeduse zoning designation located at 454 East Main Street. And so we will begin with the staff presentation. We will actually have you come up and present. That would be great. Okay. If you would like to present, that would be great. Please state your name for the record.

Uh my name is True Lee. I am the owner of uh the property there on on the on the street. Um we're presenting an idea. I mean a proposal. Um this is like my my third time in the last three years. We keep on going through different kind of plans but uh because the use because the limitation on on the access point and also um just where you know how it's configured. Um the best use for it right now is we're proposing to have a u a storage unit facility um a storage unit um in place. um you know gradually will build up um you know it's not going to be all at once but as use as as needed we'll add more units as as we grow and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, it's just the fact that we we tried different concept on on this on this piece of bron and it's just with the water with water and the access points and all that stuff. Uh, it became too hard to because you know because of narrow access point we we had a hard time doing any other development at this point right now. We're right now subdividing um we're looking to subdivide into two lots. the first lot um is the one that's I think is with this this this the main lot in the back. Uh and that's where the storage unit is. The first lot we haven't decided what to do with it yet. Um but you know that's that's our that's the basic concept plan right now. It's um you know it's best use of the land right now that that we we can think of without having any just like I said it's just the way the land is configured land blocked and stuff like that. Uh we don't know what else to do with them at this point.

So you know you it's just your choice to do this your

we had we had a big uh well we we had other Yeah. But the only problem was that was the cost to build it became too high. Um and we our financial backers uh for for that uh was a commercial uh complex uh about two years ago. Uh but we we that the cost and then bringing you know water shares and all that stuff it became too much of a an obstacle and also the usage of it as well. We we didn't think that uh bringing that big that much of commercial space in would would build up and we we didn't want to build like a commercial ghost town.

I did want to point out this is um so here's the property here. Here's city hall and then you have the bank here. Um and then you do have Matthews Lane here with this commercial corridor. Oh, and this is in the MU zoning.

There's some for staff. Is there some ratio storage units that are kind of desired in the town for residents or something? Enter Bill. Will you state your name for the record? Hello, I'm Bill Kate, the community development director. Hi, Phil. Um, it's a good question. We don't have anything established currently, right? As far as as far as number of storage units, and we do have we have three locations of storage units are on the smaller side. This would be the largest. It looks like

storage units are one of those things that everyone wants when you need one and nobody wants when you don't need them. um in Pleasant View they had established a ratio of 12 um homes per storage unit. So uh let's just say there were 1,200 um homes

homes or or units in the city because multif family counted towards that total. Um then you could have a hundred storage units somewhere in town and most of them were that that was the ratio that was established, but most of them were taken up into two or three large uh storage unit facilities like this. And so people would come in and and maybe there were 50 that were available, but that was too small for them to make a real profit at doing. So um so there's nothing like that in our general plan.

There's nothing like that in the general plan or currently in our code. So, um, it it's a it's an open question what that ratio should be. Um, I'm not saying Pleasant View should be our guide. That's just what they the number that they decided on and we could choose more or less than that. Um, the hard thing about this kind of thing is, and I'm I'm just going to say I'm a I'm a free market capitalist at heart, and if the market is there and says we need more storage units, I say let's let the guy do his business. Um, on the other hand, again, to reiterate, storage units are great when you need one, and if you don't, they're uh something you don't really care for.

I agree with you. I know we're Yeah. in some kind of ratio that we're stepping out with. So that's my that's my thought. Thank you, Bill. Yeah. Did you have other questions, John? No. Do we on the do we bill? This may be a question for you. Do we require any kind of traffic study or anything? I don't know what kind of traffic flow we're going to see in and out of there, but just as far as access on 138 and the potential for traffic incursions, or is this something at a level we wouldn't? I'm just curious.

Um, we'd have to look at that. I don't I don't know off the top what a a traffic burden would be like in a situation like this. Um, I think the biggest immediate traffic would be during construction and then after that it would just be people coming in and out with their their needs. So, I don't know what traffic generation would look like for this size of property with this number of units, but it's something we could look into. I'm sure that some traffic group has done a study on something like this and we could break that out by acreage and and by number of units.

The development doesn't bother me. It's just more about the traffic. Usually, people are moving, they're bringing trailers, you're trying to cross traffic, and we're growing and not shrinking. And so, that that traffic on 138 is getting bigger, bigger, and more congested. That's just a concern I would have as far as how that interaction would play in there if you have a bunch of different cars with traders or truck with traders pulling it out. It's a good question. There's no RV storage. Um, no. I mean, I think we could modify it if we needed to, if you guys are okay with it down the road. It's just a matter of stop post right now. No, stop post right now. Okay. Another question for you. Would your intent be to to fence entire property to start with before you you mentioned kind of building out in phases, but as far

we would have to fence the whole thing for just security reasons anyway. It's just a matter of I mean the first thing would be having a a fence the secure fence uh for security and and and just you know we want in in type of development like this you want minimum access as much as possible and so it's not an issue we're going to have multiple exits at all be one exit point um to it. So, and then and we probably have solid fins or wall surrounding area as well. And that would be the starting. Oh, yeah. That's the entire perimeter.

Yeah. Start it and stuff. Yeah. That's that's just uh because we before we take anything, we want to make sure we we offer security because people only take these places because it offers security. If it doesn't, you know, anyone can break in. They're not going to go there. I get it. I just want to be clear because I said with that being locked in, it it has less access to the back. That would be something I'd be concerned about is making sure that fence is in there. Yeah, the f the fence will will be there first and that that'll be needed to uh post it to other questions. Thanks, Jason. Garrett, I'm just looking at this. I mean, is there enough room to get one car in, another car out there safely?

Yeah, we looks like it's about it's a little less than 40 feet wide for that access. Yeah, actually we we did we're moving the access from the main road to where the house is. We're tearing down that house. So, we're moving the access east, right? We already talked to you about that. They're just waiting for you guys to approve it. And so, we're moving it to the uh the access to the east and that's why the road end that way. They're showing the road 30 feet. So, the road will actually be here right there. The west. To the west. Okay. Okay. That makes more sense. Okay. Okay. I was going to ask about that house. Yeah. Unfortunately, that historic landmark will be removed.

So, same mall, right? Yeah. Have you consulted with the Utah Historic Preservation Office? I don't think that's an old house. I'm just kidding. I don't want to bring that concern. No, that house the house. No, it's not doable, but it's part of it will be to torn down for the access point. So, you said you've done a couple of different proposals on trying to figure out what to do with the property. Why did you why and how did you land on storage?

Well, first one we wanted to do was um a subdivision there, but because we needed two access to have the multiple uh you know um home there, you know. Um, and the person that we working with, they say they needed the the high density, but because we don't have one elimin uh per home in the area, so they backed out of it. And then we looked at doing the commercial, and we actually talked to um uh to try to get more more access points to it, but the commercial itself, it's the access point that causes so much so much issue as far as developing that thing to the commercial. And there's no other we're we're landlaw unless we can uh you know do something to back but that hasn't turned out anything wise um the math unless I'm connected to Matthew's piece but their their piece is so massive they don't know when they're going to start or whatever. So you know for us to count on that access point uh to get approval and stuff like that that would take us on on their time frame. So, that was one of the delays about it because we were putting in uh we're going to put a big uh commercial center in there, right? But once again, access point and then um on top of that, you know, you have water shares and stuff with that and water has become an issue here in Grantsville. So, those were two those a couple negative factors that kicked in and we didn't have time to wait because this we've had this property almost four years now. Four or five years now, I believe. And we've gone through several concept plans to see what we can do. At first, we wanted to do residential high, you know, duplexes and stuff like that, but once again, it is what it is. I mean, you know, we thought we could get around it. We couldn't. And so, we just have to modify it as as we continue. This is right now, you know, low impact on traffic and everything like that. Um, and we do it nicely, the walls surrounding it. And then it it'll look

like it will be a nice facility. Um, we do have a partner that's coming in who has run other who has other facilities in West Jordan, Utah, and it looks nice. Uh, and so, you know, we want to make a nice facility. Um, you know, that, you know, it's usable. That's it. If if approved, what would your buildout time be? From this from the first shovel in the dirt till completion, what would your anticipation be? Is this just a concept? Concept? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not asking for hard days. I'm just What would be a year? Best case scenario, probably a year. Okay. A year out for the first phase

or the well fencing and stuff like that, the wall and stuff like that, grading it and and paving and stuff like that. And then um then probably most likely first uh 200 units we're looking at phases of 200 units at a time. Okay. So, you're looking about a year year out. Yeah. I didn't see a definition on how many units this was going to be and I can't count the whole squares because I can't focus on that. Do you know how many units?

It's supposed to be a thousand units but we don't at this point in time. We might modify this thing if if allowed to have like RV units in the back or something. That's something that come up with right now. But we don't, you know, it's kind of like every, you know, storage unit facility this size have some flexibility um to make it workable. And so we're looking at right now, but we're looking at phases of of 200 and it fills out because these things are relatively easy to build once once the payments in, stuff like that, they're slap on and there's no power or anything to it. So we don't have to worry about any kind of power power plumbing because we don't anticipate, you know, put any any power in it. these units just avoid any kind of people who want to hang out at night.

So, are all your all your openings are going to be directly to the street then? So, you're not going to have any corridors you need to walk down for power for lights in hallways or anything? There'll be there'll be lights. It'll be outdoor.

There'll be lights. There'll be lights outside and stuff like that. You know, sensor lights that say come by and stuff at night because we plan to close this thing at nine o'clock at night unless you want special things. You have to have supervised people to help you go at night because this is going to be a nine to facility not that's about not 24 hours. So, you know, unless special request and we have maintenance there to help you you know there will be like the lights we'd imagine the the storage units the lights outside. Um the trend is these days not even put power inside there to avoid any kind of issues of uh people staying there. So all these proposed gates that you have on the corridors, these are are these just these are just gates and not access points.

No. Yeah. Yeah. There no access point. There'll be one access point and that's the front that comes in. So your main access is here. Then they can drive in here. Yeah. But yeah, but on the concept right here, you see all these doors? These are these are drawn in as you can see little walkways. Well, even right right there walkways. Well, the rock, but right at the top of the walkway, you have a gate or a door of some some type of access control going down that corridor. They only should be one floor. They're no double, you know, you're not going to a building, whatever. Kind of like garages, you know. So, all these corridors are just open open corridors. They're not not a common breezeway. It looks like internal. It looks like That's what I'm saying. It looks like an internal corridor right there. Yeah. Oh,

there could be dividing walls on those things right there. Mean dividing walls on them. They're just walkways. I think to his point though, this is a concept right now. It's not the final change. No, I agree. But concepts become the standard pretty quick in buildings. That's why our our objective is to build these things as efficient as possible at least um issue as far as security wise possible as much. I mean, I've seen uh I've seen different types of um storage units. Most these are going to be outdoor storage units. They're not going to be anything where we're building anything with elevators or anything like that.

And phases would be contingent on lease rates. So, how far how fast you fill up the first phase? We like like for we filled out the we build the 200 and we fill it out. Yeah. Do we start on then then we could start on on second phase too and take pre-orders for those. It's just with this type of plan, it's it's economically easier to to to plan and to to work out and it's it's the costwise is the biggest thing. The only thing we have to deal with increase the cost of building material whatever phase we build that's one more question Sarah on your site grading are you doing all the the cleanup and everything and all the demo would you be responsible for that?

Oh yeah. What about the tanks? What? The tanks we're subdividing at that's going to be a separate lot that we're doing right now. Yeah. And and those those tanks were removed and stuff like that because we're going to do a separate um down the road. We're going to do a separate like a smaller uh commercial center in front in on lot two right here. On lot two. Yeah. So you'd be moving the the fuel tanks completely off of this property. Yeah. Off the property and stuff for that. So yeah, the reason I'm asking that is is those are fuel tanks and they we need to make sure that the city's protected and we don't have any kind of once they move out they'll be uh you know inspected by the state and all that stuff. Make sure they

I just want to make sure that part's clear. The city understands that they need to go back and do soil sampling everything to make sure we don't have any leaks there. That's all. Okay. Yeah. And as you consider phase one has been done on on on that on on those things as well. You do have a phase one on that. Yeah, they have done a phase one on that already. So that's why we're still dividing it for that part and this part here because uh it's just a matter of that part separate a smaller uh you know little I don't know commercial center you know made five 10,000 square feet office and something like that right and then the back will be used as a separate that's why

yeah no issues other than just making sure we understand there's there's a potential trust we don't think we have to make sure we clear phase one will catch part of that but not all of us Okay. Everything on that lot in front will be have be in compliance with the state natory or or you know their cleanup and stuff like that. They they'll be inspected and stuff like that. Thanks Jason Gary. No I'm good now. Hey Cameron. No I hope to be in the storage unit business sometime soon. Got your next partner right there. We are looking for future partners. I'm good. I'm hoping to have a story. No, lots of people need a passion.

Yeah, I'm supportive of the concept of So will they So this is just a concept. When you have an actual plan, do they need to come back here? I would um then if it's permitted or conditional in the use table and then um if they're asking for any varianes um actually yes with new construction it does come because it's hard we have a frontage minimum for the road right is that 30 ft the frontage yeah of the property it would be based off the MU so it's not the road frontage it would be frontage here

of that frontage okay got Um, and were there any findings from your phase one? Um, nothing that that can't be addressed during the the removal of the tanks and the clean out and there the tanks have been there. It is it is what it is. Um, and then whatever requirements the uh was the EPA whatever the environmental department of environmental quality. Yep.

Whatever they they required done it will be done. It's just it's just a matter of what am I going to do? So yeah, whatever whatever once those things are removed and then uh the other phases come on in and whatever required be done will be done. Do you have anybody else here that's uh part of your uh concept plan? Uh no not not okay. Not this way. Yeah. Sorry. We can't public comment. It's just a concept. You can talk with them. Sorry. Yes.

Um, let me think. So, we talked about frontage. How about fire? Uh, so will this have to be reviewed by the fire department? The entire DRC review of fire zoning, public works, the entire department. Okay. So, back to the satellite view. I didn't see any homes that would be directly impacted by anything but maybe noise and lights. So that could be addressed with your operating hours and your fences. Um I just wanted there is a home that is to the west. That home right there, right? Um that's not part that you don't own that. No, no, no.

And so then the concept would have to take into account not to have any um light or noise pollution affect that that home right there. I don't think the way it's designed we're going to have an issue with that. We'll have a we have a solid wall definitely around around that per right there and so you know it's just a matter of you know they might have not had they'll have a solid wall and then

I don't think there much be any what I can imagine is that the uh that part right there will besides the wall there will be a line of of storage units lining that as well. So give them buffer zone as far as um sound and everything like that. Lightwise, there's not going to be much light because at night it's it's sensored light. We'll probably do some more sensor lights and having these lights on um full time just, you know, that one of the things too. You see where those trash lights when you get them so there's more of the the down light spread out. That's something that can be designed as part of that. But that was something that be considered.

Understand that the outside lights of the storage units will be focused on on the storage that area there. So unless they unless they're on a high hot hot air balloon looking down, the lights not going to affect them. We'll see. We will have some lights that'll be up so you can see the roads going down and that kind of thing. So I just that'll be something I think we need to consider as far as how they're designed in those those lights, especially around that area. I'll make sure that he's designed sensitivity to the neighbors to make sure it's it's that's such a small area. It's not going to I'm not worried about that as far as what would we need to do to make it uh uh you know to not bother them. Sure. Okay. Is there a standard for the CMU wall height that you would do for this? Is there

I don't I I I'm pretty sure that the our security wall would be about at least eight feet. Okay. Okay. And then with eight well at least eight feet because you know you know it's something that you know the nice thing about it is situation like that um access point is actually beneficial to this type of plan. Okay. Uh so if someone just can't just roll up on the back end and stuff like that. Yeah. So that's the nice thing about it. Yeah. And then we just want to make sure that the walls high enough to if they roll up they go oh maybe not good idea. Right. And the higher your wall is more it mitigates sound. Yeah. So are you No, go ahead.

Are you plan on having anybody stay there full-time or are they just going to be I think we will have a staff. I mean the staff will probably be nine to nine. Somebody to check people in check people out. You're not going to have someone living there on site like in a house? No, I I I that's not like the one in Lake Point. Is that what you're thinking of? Yeah. But it's security cameras. Security cameras. Everything Everything's done by virtual these days the these days check in and all that stuff. But we prefer to have probably something there 9 9 to9 just to make sure. And then um somebody on call, somebody needs to come in late night for some reason. I don't know, you know, and then make sure that whoever checks in is is supervised at night.

So security is the big issue for these complexes. So the the access point and also cameras everywhere is is big and being nice next to a police station is also nice, right? We like to think that in Grantsville we don't need security, but we've got parking for our police anytime you want. Free storage for the police department. That's a good idea. Okay. Any other questions? You guys good? All right, Mr. Lee. Thank you so much. Guess we will entertain a motion then.

Oh, sorry. No motion. Thank you, Mr. Lee. Okay, we will close agenda item three and move on to agenda item four, which is the consideration of a request for a second extension of the Matthews Meadows subdivision phase 2 approval.

So, this is um the second extension request for phase two. Um they gave us a letter. They provided the letter. I know last time it was we were a little behind. They provided a letter earlier. we pushed out to the expiration date um just to help them out and extend that as far as we could. And so there's phase two built out phase one and they do still have some vacant lots to build on in phase one.

Okay. What's your primary purpose for the limitation? Just in our minds, the 12 month city, what's um that way you don't have um utilities that are sitting there like sewer lines that are sitting there not being used because they need to be clean, water lines because then they need to be blown out with the bacteria, things like that. So

Shelby, in the in the city code it says that they have to have the six month has to be agreed on before the expiration and is that based on their submittal date or based on the date today because if you're saying it expired yesterday and we're approving it, but they submitted it over looks like a month a month or well March 17. They submitted it March 17th and it just meeting dates align with seeing our agenda's been. So, so do we, according to the city code, what I read, unless I read it wrong, it's saying that they have to this has to be approved before it expires. So, I'm asking I guess maybe that's back to a legal question, but how do we is that I understanding of the code.

I may have read it wrong, but that's what I thought it said. Any extension must be prior to expiration of the original approval. Should the application be should an application become void applicant must reapply first stage for level of development. Yeah. So I mean so they're starting over it expire as it sounds.

So they've request this is our second request. So they've made a first request of the approval since September and now we're on our second request. So the I guess the application hasn't it expires today. So if you guys say no, then yes, the restart is someone they have. They did ask in advance. I'm not I'm not questioning their timely request. I'm just wondering if we're within like because if I read that right, it said May 4th was what it said on there and that's why I was that's why I was concerned because we're a day late after that. So no, I don't feel like It's from the date of their application. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. And it's and that' be six months from today. Yeah.

I don't have a problem. Any questions? Okay. Kevin, so is the worry that if you keep giving people extensions that they're not developing it, but he's actively developing it, so there's no concern here. Well, he's not actively developing, but the other the other phases have been developed. Correct. It's not like an empty lot. It's not like west end of town where there are a few empty lots in phase one. He's just they're not selling. They're bigger lots are not selling as fast and so he's asking for a second extension approval.

The real reason why we want an expiration date on these approvals is because the codes may change in the interim and we want to have them be brought up to current codes. If but if something was approved at one point and then just stayed approved forever, then they would never have to bring it up to the current changes and and requirements to the code. That's what I was getting at is it's not such a big deal that it's been two years. It will be it's we've looked in on it and it's all okay. So the 12 months I just wanted to make sure we're understanding why. Y

time frame. So, we're giving him another six months and then he has to So, we can only issue him up to two extensions. So, Oh, that makes he has to start construction. But we've checked in and nothing's changed. So, we're good. Yeah. Nothing that that fixes. So, if he starts construction on phase two, that's just it's just that he just needs to get the finished lots developed. Not necessarily needs to start building there. just needs to get the all the infrastructure in. It said in his letter that he was later this year he was

yeah that he was promising that later this year I think to get going. Yeah. However, we remain fully committed to moving this development forward later this year. So if we approve this and later this year means no later than November 5th. Well, he's got six months. You have six months. He's got six months. Yeah. You have to start no later than November 5th. So, I mean, there's it's later this year is kind of vague. Well, it's required or else. Yeah. And he's aware of that. If he does get the extension, it's

so stupid. We need something. We need something fiery. These are these are lame tonight. How much longer do you want to be here? Be careful. We can have a long discuss agenda for tomorrow. That looks like fun. It's like hoping tomorrow never comes. Okay, I'm ready. Yeah, this is fine. Okay. I don't have any issues with it either. So, or plan extensions. Okay. I just want to see Maril Street so I can get a sign maybe from public works. So this says that we should open a public hearing. Oh no,

no, no. It's just a consideration of the request or a second extension on that Meadows. I see. Yeah. She's wrong again. Which we which we have the authority to approve. Okay. So, we are going to consider a motion then? Yes. Okay, I'll make one. I I learned from Cameron. I'll do this quick once. I move to approve the request for a second extension of the Matthews Meadow subdivision phase two flat subject to the conditions listed in the staff report. Second. Okay. Jason made a motion and seconded. All in favor? I

I pass this unanimously and we will close item four and move on to agenda item five. The approval of the minutes from the April 7th, 2026 planning commission regular meeting. Anybody have any comments or concerns with that? Was it last meeting? I Yeah. Why is there a lag? Why is the lag on the minute approval a month? Why is it not the next meeting? Just out of curiosity. He was just behind with Oh, permits. And I was gonna be really impressed if we had minutes from our last meeting in this. Okay. I was just wondering sometimes we have Oh, sometimes we will have two. Yes, we have two. I just was curious. Two meetings that we'll have to rev.

Okay. And those have to be on separate motions. The code stinks that we have 30 days to get the minutes to you or a draft set of minutes. I'm not in a rush. I was just curious. Yeah. Okay. So, it Thank you, Lucia. No concerns. Jason, I wasn't here, so I I read over them, but it was all that was new. So, no concerns. Yeah. Okay. Well, I entertain a motion. I move to approve the minutes from the April 7th, 2026 Planning Commission training meeting. Hey, we have a second. I'll second. Gary. Okay. All in favor?

I. Thank you. We'll close that item. Move on to agenda item six, the report from city staff. Um, you guys coming for the rodeo? Yes, I'm volunteering though. Yep. I haven't gotten my volunteer assignments. I reached out to you. Charge toilets. Are you really? Oh, she's in charge of clowns. I'll save that for you. Okay. That clown be the rodeo clown. Sir, day is rodeo. I can't run very fast, so that would be really entertaining. Get ready for some blood.

May 22nd and there starts at 7 p.m. Get your tickets in. Are there already sold out? They're selling pretty fast. You better buy them tonight before they run out. Yep. Um that's all I have. Council has a long agenda. I do have just one question. I don't want to take much time, but a millist development out north west. Bunch of garages. Nice gated community. Bunch of garages. Look like a clubhouse. Yeah. And it just stopped. Just real quickly, what happened there? Is that that empty one that's been there for 20 years?

Talked about a few years a few months ago. So, we it did come in front of planning commission for a reason. You guys had recommended that for approval and then I wasn't here for city council and then it died. Yeah. So, I don't know what happened at city council why the I guess the reason wasn't it was just condos that was going to go in. It was town homes initially. There were condos. They had asked for some additional information and the property owners have been worth coming with thus far. original one just simply ran out of money. That's why it's sitting so closer. I was really excited to see something going there.

That's so sad. All those garages. I know. They're deteriorating now. Storage units are miss. Yeah, that's where we do our annual homelessness count. I did have a question in really quick and the storage units conversation kind of brought this up and I don't want to have it with the applicants here but um would you like us to look into a establishing a ratio of those um similar to what they have in in Pleasant View or other places? It could be a good way to regulate without saying we don't want more storage units. Yeah, I don't this was a large one and so it seemed like quite an addition.

He's going to phase it. I know it makes some sense. What's the total number of the He was trying to put a thousand storage units in there. That's a lot. That is a lot. Be small. My opinion is not I don't worry about it that much. But part of it is I have a brother-in-law that does this and they have programs and a lot of work they do to make sure that the absorption will pencil out because capitalism rules and something like this. They're not going to build something that they can't rent. So I to me I'm not worried about it as much if you had someone coming in saying I'm just going to leave something that could be half done. That would be a bigger concern. This didn't seem like that kind of situation. But I agree with that. Economics makes sense. I think it's good that he's facing it though and it seems like he's smart. That's it. Yes. Yeah.

So that's not a conversation you care to del. Okay. Use your time someplace else. Thanks for thanks for asking. But I The city's got enough problems. You just have to be fiery. If we get three more requests, then maybe we'll wait till after mine. Hopefully, just kidding. It's not here. It wouldn't be here. Hopefully they make them big enough to store cars in. All I could say, it's in that little space. Golly, those are all little small ones with with hallways. There's no way you'd have Well, yeah. So, there's Yeah, I'm sure it's going to evolve as they see what the man is.

Yeah. Well, we should have opened item number seven with that discussion. Open form for planning commissioners. So, we'll close the city staff since they have nothing else to report except I'm looking forward to our city's annual first annual rodeo uh open form for planning commissioners agenda item number seven. Does anybody else have any other I have two things that so be nice though. No, they'll So, not to rehash old things we talked about. So, Shelley wasn't here last week and I got some numbers that haven't been making sense in my mind. So, hypothetically speaking if we had a property of 113 acres. Yeah.

Let's work through the net density of what happens between R1 121 and R112 because I think hypothetically if that conversation happened I was confused by the number difference a little bit. Let me just So you're asking what's the net loss? I want to know what the difference is because I heard I heard a lot of different numbers last meeting or if there was a last meeting that discussed this. So if you have 113 acres and um we're going to times that by our current zoning which is two units per acre, right? Yeah. So we're going to go 25% which is your roads.

So that's She was trying on Zoom and it was still wasn't working. So I Yeah. So 28 acres and then you're going to go 10% for your open space which is 11 acres. Um I calculated between 15,000 18,000 square ft the lots would be on. So now we minus the 28.25 and minus the 11.3 that leaves you 73.45 acres. You're going to times that by 43580 which is a acre um

560 560 my bad and then we're going to divide that by 21 780 which is your half acre lots and so netish you'd get 146 units. All right. If we do that by

12,000 square ft, you'd get 266.74 units. But if we just do the raw 113 um acres by the 43560 and we divide that by the 780, you would get 226 on a half acre. And if we do that by 12,000 square foot, you would get 410 gross. So it's significant significantly different calculations based off of net and gross density.

It's one of the incentives that we can offer people though. And so um it's something that we might want to think about going forward. This is a real not not a storage unit philosophical conversation, but as a way to incentivize people to create interconnectivity between their parcel and the next one over. Sometimes you can take the lot or two that would have been grabbed by a road going to the next property. Um, you can keep that number that Shelby just came up with as the same and say we're going to give you that additional additional density, but please give us the road. And we we kind of did that with the U

Falcons Landing and Sun Sage. We're looking at that. Not not Sunage. What's that? Paul Lynford. Yes. But we do we do require that they provide interconnectivity or connectivity through other subitions outside their parcels. Okay, thank you for that math. Second question I have um or to talk about I again haven't been doing this a long time. Keep hearing the affordable housing requirement or recommendation. Is there statute in law that requires us to have certain things and what is that and where are we?

Please and thank you. Oh goodness. I'll one second. I'll let Bill touch on like the state stuff. In our code under a PUB, we do require that 50% above the net density they have to dedicate as moderate income housing, which is defined as what? What defines moderate income housing? Well, I'm glad you asked. Okay, that's you. Okay. All right. state code has a very specific definition of what moderate income housing is and it is housing that is accessible to uh 80% of the AMI the area median income. Can I explain that real quick?

Yeah, please. So you would take the population in a county list say thousand the sample of a thousand points take the middle say 70,000 that's you cut the population in half the upper half you know good luck the bottom half is the population you're trying to assist with affordable housing so that median number would be 100% of the area med income okay

uh of the the V the AMI and then you would um from there 80% is usually where you start you see some kind of credit for subsidy or affordable affordable housing assistance and so most well for banks to get credit they have to have the majority of the units below 80% AMI. So I want I want to give you some some numbers to kind of chew on with this. If the AMI was 100,000 and we're not far off of that. Let's just use that number. Then 80% of that would be $80,000.

The simple math for this is, and you know this is you just take that number and you triple it and that's how much home you can afford at an AMI. So the math there again assuming a $100,000 AMI, you take the 80% of that, get to $80,000, you triple that, you get to 24 $240,000. If there is a home for $240,000 in Tilla County, I would like to know where it is because I'm moving tomorrow. Um, this is where you look at things like town homes and and other situations where they're on smaller lots or they're just um it's a struggle. And so the state has looked for ways to address this. The state has provided guidance and direction for years about how to address this and to questionable results to be completely frank. Um they have required us to pick from a list of uh 26 different 27 different is they call it the alphabet soup of uh different tools that you can use to help address um affordable housing in your community. And you have to pick at least three from the alphabet list. And they call it the alphabet list. It's it's really just in the code. was A, B, C, D. And some communities, if they have if you have like a a track station in town, you have to do a area plan, a station area plan surrounding the the multifamily or or the multimodal transit hub. Um you uh there are things that are uh pretty easy to do and things that we've adopted already that look at things like

allowing for ADUs in the community or um providing uh down payment assistance for government employees or or contractors. There's a there's a whole list and I I forget what they all are, but there it's you can go on the on the state code and look at it. I used to have the section memorized there. Another It's not hard to find the So someone that is just basically coming out of homelessness or just really gory homelessness would be 25 30% AMI. Yeah. Really low.

And we our portfolio right now we have about 500 properties about 12,000 units. Our portfolio averages about 40 55% AMI but 95% of those are built with federal low-inccome housing tax program that basically 70% of the cost of housing. That's how 95 98% of all the housing in America is being built today is through that one one program.

It's called it's so it's very it subsidizes the cost up front and the rents are lower. That's the only way they're getting done. And so short of a low-inccome housing tax credit project, city's probably not going to be adding much inventory and the city wouldn't necessarily own it. They would just tell people come here that would and so this the struggle in

in our free market capitalist society is that what is the incentive to get developers to invest in providing these lower income housing? I mean, if you could build 10 units at market rate at, you know, $500,000 and you're selling those and you're filling those, you get 20% of that as your profit margin, that's what you're doing as opposed to 10 units at a quarter of a million, which no one is doing because 20% of that is half of what it is at the market rate.

So, they they're competitive credits, too. So, you have to compete against others to get them. And so it's like how low can you go? And uh the cost in Utah is around 350 grand to get an apartment in place. So you got to capitalize 350 grand probably help a population on average of between 60 and 70%. So it's it's very difficult. We're not there. I mean that we're just not there. I I honestly don't know how people are affording these places. I don't.

Well, they're paying the the the problem is there's homelessness. There's that 6,000 people in here, but the there's another 80,000 probably that are paying more than half their income. That formula about three times. Yeah. That's you shouldn't be paying more than 30% of your income for housing. Yeah. So most of the population is stressed at 50 60 70% of their income go down. So single income the state in their in their infinite wisdom has decided that um m the way to do it is for to require municipalities to choose three of these strategies and tools from their list and implement them and then report on the implementation

every but there's no real followup as to so what. Yeah. And there's no real database of this is where we were when all of this started and now building permits have gone through the roof because everyone's implemented these strategies and the value of housing has gone down. Well, it hasn't.

And so they're retooling and what it's going to look like. I mean, even this year, they're like, just report how many building permits you did. Okay, great. What does that mean? Nothing. It means nothing. And it's so frustrating because everyone's talking about it and giving it lip service, but no one is doing anything that's actually really addressing the problem. And frankly, I don't know how to do it short of of the government coming in and building, which is was a development in in Kansas City that actually got blown up because it was so crimeridden that it was awful. Uh there have been other things that were creatively applied but there there were there

public housing is gone public section housing is basically gone that's rent subs but but there's there's creative things that people have done that are that kind of work the system in a way that gets people to where they need to be. It's I'm talking about thinking about co-op city if you're familiar with the concept in New York where people have bought into these developments and it's basically an owner occupied condo situation and you you buy into the system and you pay like a very low monthly maintenance HOA and when you leave you take the money that you invested in you take that with you

and the the increase in the equity goes to maintenance of the building and the exterior and all of those things and you agree to do that when you you you deposit your money into that account and you pay your very low rent. Those are really rare and hard extremely rare. They're hard to they're hard to So that's just rental. If you're trying to can we build some homes people could buy here, you know that price point, you know, it's going to be comparable to 60% AMI rent if you're looking at that. I'm going to rent this month and I'm going to move into a home this month and pay about the same. You know, you're probably talking at a 300 $250,000 price point. And the hard thing is that which

this is my last point, but I I promise I'll say that. The hard thing is that so good. the the legislature and developers, which are kind of the same thing. They want to they want to point to the the municipal regulations as being the factor that can shift the needle and it's just not the case. Yeah. Let the market take care of it partially. That's where we are.

But but also um because that's where we have to be, right, with the thing. But al also I would say that it's it's disingenuous to put all of the onus on local communities and municipalities to try to regulate this thing because you can't regulate your way out of this whole burden. The reason why they do that is because they look at their their spreadsheets and they they they look at the costs of doing business and the always the largest is the municipal the land side of things. So, um, if it's if that's a quarter of the expense, you know, you look at the concrete in in a building, that's a relatively small expense. You look at the lumber, you look at the roofing, you look at the finished materials inside, whatever, those are all broken out and spelled out pretty explicitly, and they're small. Now, they're increasing at a much higher rate than the land value does or the municipal permitting fees or whatever else is in there, but those are all one single line item and it looks big. And so, that's the big Well, if we can reduce that then, well, no, the rest of this is 80%. This is really where the expense is coming from. Our our costs are pretty well locked in. and like things like impact fees. We study those things to death.

There's not much the cities can really do. In Utah, say there's 4 maybe 450 million in subsidy out there in some way for affordable housing. 5 to 10% of it is state funds. The other 90 plus is federal funds. So that's how it's happening too. So the state is more the city's can only do so much, but that's there just isn't enough money. So if there were if there was $500 million from the state right now, that's a thousand homes at market rate. That's a thousand homes at market rate. That's what we need. Well, that's No, what I'm saying is but it's nothing. Yeah. compared to the need. But we need

even if you doubled that and and sold them at half of market rate, if you were somehow able to wave your magic wand and make that happen, that's still only 2,000 units without really too much. There is one other concept. It's called a land trust where say the city or Gail Miller or somebody will go out there and buy 20 homes or build 20 homes and agree to sell them at 250,000 and then when the person buys them, they can sell it, but they only get two or 3% appreciation a year. They have to sell back the land trust. Then the land trust resells it at that lower price. And so it it creates an artificial market. And there's a couple Salt Lake City has one with about 20 homes, one in Utah County.

But again, that's it takes money up front. Somebody's got to up front subsidize 20 homes. 20 homes and you need 10,000. You need 10,000 a year. Yep. You're getting 20. I also want you guys to think homes are not getting smaller. The lots are getting smaller and the homes are getting bigger and more expensive. Homes are getting smaller. Well, but they're still staying expensive. They are. There's still

I see it every day. That's that's my business is I see it every day. Builders are doing everything they can to get homes affordable. Are there still homes that are the the 3,000 to 4,000 foot houses? Yes. But I'm talking I'm talking big national builders I'm talking to every day that are trying to find 1100 1200 square foot houses they can build. Yes. But to Bill's point, it's the land. I one of my builders is a hund00 million into a project before they put the first shovel to go vertical.$und00 million they got to recoup to money. That's not anything that infrastructure cost and the cost of the buying the land is nothing to do with seeds. That's just market and

and the regulatory environment. We can give you 10 units per acre. We can give you a 100 units per acre. That's not going to reduce the cost of putting the concrete in the ground. and we can't do anything about that. Now, if you put a 100 units per acre on the ground, of course, that's going to be spread over, but that's still a cost that will be borne by the ultimate property owners, and it's not coming from the city. That's what drives me nuts about all of this. They're like, well, it's the cities. It's not. It's just not. No. Okay, rant over. Thank you. I think Bill understands it very well, though. Thank you, Bill. I sat on the one of the housing task forces for the last year. We went through a lot of this and I

there's so many interesting ways that people are trying to look at how to solve this. The reality of it is people are people are build companies are building houses that people are buying. Y and you can't comp it's that capitalism again. If people aren't going to buy it that people are going to get a lot more inventive on how to do it. They're trying to find smaller ways to do it but it's not incentivized. And there was groups like Ivory Homes and these big groups are saying we're trying to help with this. and they were throwing out things like let's force cities to be a certain density or anything like that and it's not going to work that way but they're trying to find they were looking at ways to find more efficient ways to build a house where it was cheaper and you do you know these prefab homes where they build all the walls and you literally show up on a truck

and there's different ways people are trying to revent it but that the companies will build that themselves when they build it into their their price model but it's hard and another big thing's coming is water that's we don't know where all this this growth is coming and the conservancy districts are getting really worried and they're cutting back on what they're doing on the water per ed because they don't have enough water there and it's going to there'll be a tipping point. We're not there yet, but it's coming. Did you attend several years ago there's a housing Utah housing corporation conference where they were had brought somebody brought in a speaker on straw houses. Oh yeah. I wouldn't help build one. Did you? Yeah. Have you heard of that little pig story or straw?

I've actually stayed in one. Did you? They're kind of cool. Got big thick window ledges. Yeah. Little pig. We tried everything. We've seen houses in the market. They're trying to build out of fab walls out of bamboo. Really? They're trying to do and it is a company out of Florida and unfortunately it failed miserably because it just it wasn't scalable. But builders are trying. I've got builders in Salt Lake County that are literally building town homes without garages to make them less expensive so people can afford them. And as soon as they build them, they're selling them because they're less expensive without garages. Just carboard town homes and they had a car never had a garage until but to their point I think even Bill's point I think

I mean we probably don't see that here but just because the lot size we're still a halfacre lot probably determines a house size but the land cost is not getting less expensive. You'll see somebody say, "Well, that guy got $100,000 for his acre. Well, I should get 110,000 for my acre." And then and somebody will buy it. And then, I mean, you made a mention that these builders are making 20%. That's that's gross. I'm seeing builders lose 7 8% because they're buying sales with buy downs for rates and stuff like that just to move houses. I don't know how anyone's in the development game. Yeah. They're netting five to six% net profit on that. It's like it's it's almost not even worth opening up the doors anymore. Yeah. Can't even pay people It's a challenge. Well, yeah. Did you have any other questions?

No, I think that's enough for tonight. I'll Google some. That's like talking about Diet Coke in Sunday school. Gets people fired up. Excitement. He just got it. Now he's like, "Uncle." Speaking of water though, the well looks very nice. It's all done. And the water tank up there. That's great. How deep they have to go? Six or 800 feet. I don't know how deep they went. Definitely. Nice segue. I know. With that, we will close item seven and move on to item eight, report from city council. All right. Well, believe it or not, with the way that the month of April landed, we have not met as a for a regular meeting since your last meeting. Oh my goodness.

We did. Yeah, it's been a while. Um we did meet for some training last Friday um which was um just specific to our our our city council positions, but um we do have a full agenda tomorrow. There are several items that are on that agenda that were items that you um have looked at um within the last month and so we're excited to to tackle those. Anyways, need like donuts delivered halfway through your No, I think we'll be just fine. But we'll we'll probably be close to midnight when we're done, but it'll be just fine. Alicia, oh, I was saying yes. Yeah, donuts. You want donuts? Pizza place. I went to order pizza the other night.

It's good responding. Um, can you take a break for fuel fuel break? Well, we can have a little break, but I honestly think it looks worse than it is. I don't Yeah. Well, there's there's a couple items that that look like they're going to be moved to the 20th, which is the Wellstone subdivision, right? Yeah. So, we won't even tackle those and that those would take up at least two hours of time, I think, um, in public hearing and discussion. So, um, we might be all right, but there there's some pretty pretty hot button issues that we're going to be talking. So, I do have a question, maybe it's more for staff, but what is the timing on the general plan? uh the out the grant we got. When would that be available?

I need I need to reach out to the guy at WFRC and find out how it's gonna roll out. Like six months or that typically takes six months to get to get it rolling. That's the first portion. Get it done. We'd be six months away. Yeah. But we did get a grant. We did get so My goodness. I do have one question for you, Red, or the city council. Last time we met, you talked about how you guys had a developer had come to you and talked about a concept plan for subdivision, and you were saying you were pushing for halfacre lots, what their plan was.

Um, that was Sun Sage. I just wanted to give um you guys just a little bit bit of perspective on the history of that particular subdivision that um sits up really right adjacent to the Matt Canyon subdivision that you guys tackled at the first of the month of April. So, um just there was a lot of back and forth with that particular one and um a lot of different iterations, right, of their their their plan and their concept and their requests for different uh zoning special special zoning requests. And ultimately, you know, we we denied that and asked them to come back with a a plan that had halfacre lots.

Was was the zoning they were asking for bigger lots or smaller? It was smaller. My my concern and question, the last time we had this iteration, we had and developer come in and wanted to put smaller lots. They actually had water support bigger or smaller lots. In this case, there won't be. We've actually had people go in and talk about how people are building these bigger lots, but they don't put in a yard or anything because they have no water to do anything with. And I wanted to get city council's perspective. We're trying to build something where we have a great community. I don't think building big lots with don't be looking yards is building a great community. So, I'm curious where the mindset was of saying let's push to halfacre lots. What was the like what was your reasoning to

Well, I think I mean really it it it's all is in accordance with the general plan. I mean, and you guys um talked about that extensively on the 21st

and three of you um held true to that. And so looking at that particular um lot and and and just kind of what it what it wants to be, what it's intended to be, I think that, you know, we we told them to go back to the drawing board and come back with halfacre lots. And um so there you have it. But but do keep in mind that with that because they'll be coming back here soon, right? Sun sage. Um there are a there's more than a handful, but there's I think there's probably 20 plus lots that are just a shade under a half acre. And I just wanted to give you guys a little perspective to give them some grace in the sense of they're giving up the entire 60. It's more 66. It'sund 108t. 108 on the bottom and then 94 on the west side.

Yeah. So the the uh road they're giving up the entire width of the road um up up on top because the individuals that live um what's that street called clear up there where Taylor road and we really don't want to infringe upon the existing citizens um their their land and take that away from them. that would be aminent domain and so they they're willing to give that entire 18t along the far west side of the property length.

So So how does that work though? You're not going to get 21,780 square ft just because you're say it's because of the net is going to be something much smaller. So when you're saying we're we're a little under half Well, he's getting 21,78 ft on the Jordan. Yeah. So, absolutely. 208 lots total, but like Rat said, 20 to 25 are like 20,000 square foot lots or maybe 19,000 foot. Yeah. So, just just shy of 21,700 square. So, you don't want us to beat him up over that is what you're saying.

Um, you know, you can beat him up however you want. I just want to give you perspective. That that's all I want to do. But I'm I'm just thinking strict compliance because you because when we say it's two per acre, that's the go into it or half half acre loss. Yeah, two per acre half acre loss. So you go, pardon me. So you go into that and you're going to net something else. Actually, the lot that's actually going to end up with is going to be isn't usually always going to be less than Yeah. No, not necessarily. Okay. depends on how things are written up. Net or gross, right? But what can we do to comply? What would what would take us You're implying that would take us out of compliance?

Well, I'm implying that he's requesting a variance essentially for those 20 plus. This would be in in the development agreement. Yeah. So technically the variance if he's anything less than the 21780 that is what we consider a variance if the net law the net law is less than that. Yeah. the square footage of the lot, the actual what you end up at. It's less than because so it don't think of it as two dwelling or two lots per acre and it's going to be more like 1.6 once you calculate roads, open space, things like that.

So our code doesn't say two dwelling units per acre. It said each lot needs to be 21,780 ft. Exactly. Half an acre. some laws with Okay. I just want to make sure that I was straight on that. Exactly. That's all I was saying. And and Derek was the only one. I mean, you were there through all those different iterations, but I don't think anyone on this commission was was there for any of those discussions. So, no. Anyways, we were not. Just wanted to give you some perspective. That's all.

Appreciate that. I uh just thinking those that big lots that are not taken care of, I fight grasshoppers and weeds probably to the tune of $600, $700 a year just for those growing months, fighting what comes with unkempt lots.

That's the quandry, right? We do live in a rural community and I think we saw that. I mean, I think all all five of you are student enough to be able to notice on the Google Earth shots the the yards that we saw and those that were wellkept and maintained and and those that weren't. And so that's that's the balance. I mean, and and and we have, you know, individuals coming into our into our town and, you know, they they like that open rural lifestyle and it's it's it's a balance that you guys have to strike and it's a balance that we have to strike as well. So, I'll confess I don't like that for the reasons I've already voiced before. They aren't well maintained, but I was looking at a home over here and I opted for a halfacre lot because I didn't want my view block, you know, and so that's part of it and that's perfectly fine. Well, open space is great and if you can have chickens on, 1200 square feet or,77 square feet, then more power to you, right? I mean, that that's the American dream, right? is to own a home.

Yes. And have your view. What have your view? Well, so that's so that's important as well. So then maybe a question I have because you were talking rural. I hear that a lot lately, but we're growing. The report said that we're growing at an average of four and a half to 5% a year. COVID was spiked around 10%. When are we no longer rural? When does that point come? Because I I look at us more now as a bedroom community of Salt Lake. Well, we've always been a bedroom, but more more probably within the last 10 years. than anytime. And as we grow more and more, when does that rural moniker leave? It's coming, but it seems like we don't want to admit that it's coming. When you get to Costco or home,

I was going to say when your when your uh corporations are paying as much taxes as your homeowners. Yeah. Yeah. Which means got to have business development, right? I don't know. But I think when are we no longer 20 or 25,000 within 5 years then maybe? Yeah, they have different classes of cities. Bill, you can comment on that. They got a class one city or two and don't they do that in the state our state? They talk about it. Yeah, different size cities. Yeah, cities and counties. Yeah, but I even definition, but individual thought process maybe doesn't coincide with definition. That's

and that's like when when does it finally dawn on people that we're no longer rural. We're we're heading more towards metropolis and further away from rural. We don't get we don't get dwell is a rural county and that means a whole host of things that way. And then um as I think we're a fourth class city, but all of these things are are just kind of just it's something that's in flux, pun intended. Um it's uh it's like UTA where we like to determine ourselves as a governmental agency or quasi governmental agency when it suits us

and then a private agency when it suits us. So it just depends. What I would suggest is that Davis County and you you're in the farm, you were in Farmington. I'm there now. Um for years, Farmington was farming farming farming. I was on the planning commission. We were when we're the size of Bransville. Okay. Way back. That's what you were going to say forever and ever.

So the retail the retail when the retail arrives that's kind of when you know you're no longer. I'd say bro. But we we can't think of ourselves as being anything other than we're going to be Farmington. We're going to be we're going to look a lot like Davis County. Especially this valley is going to look a lot like Davis County in the next. Where are people going to go? They're coming. I mean, I'm looking at homes and my kids trying to buy homes on the Wasatch Front this week. Yeah. And it's it's a good thing, but we got to get out ahead of it. We got to think of it in those terms.

Otherwise, we're going to get stuck with Yeah, I do think and I'll just I'll just close with this. I did find it interesting the perspective that we got from the citizens with the public hearing that we had on the 21st. Um, and the the the most interesting perspective was the individual who moved in seven days from when he got up and and citizen of Gransville, seven days and his perspective, right? And so, I mean, I I I mean, I just found it was interesting. Yeah. So

I just I hope we can find a way to get a high school. My kids are out of high school. My kids are 30. But I mean for my since we moved in here, my kids went to elementary school, junior high, and high school in portables for school in portables for 20 years now or probably more because they were there when we moved here. When I was in high school, portables were only classes that had AC. So, I love portables. Okay, for real. Like, it was like, "Sweet. I got to reload." Well, I can tell you they don't work very well in these portables, but now the kids are now cuz they're 20. They got AC in every school. When the AC breaks, they close down school. Oh my gosh. Isn't that pathetic?

I went to high school in Glendel, Arizona. There was no AC anywhere in Farmington. The high school is going to be built for 15 years. And then it finally happened when I certain it happened here. But I just keep picturing all of that wetland. It's 10 years north here. I still think the high school's 10 years out minimum. The district is just I just don't see it. Too far out of water. There's a there's a lot. There's a lot. But I wish people the need is definitely there. I wish our community members would do a little research on Do we know anything more on the nuclear before they throw fire out of their heads? Like we have more news tomorrow maybe. We don't know. Some kind of data center out here. People seem to love those.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Too soon. Too soon. You didn't get enough fire. Just start light up. We don't have a big enough room. Okay. Thank you, Brett. The engaging conversation you guys as well. Uh we will consider motion to adjourn then. Second. There you go. Uh all in favor. All right. Thank you. Thanks, guys.