Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Everyone and I?

Aye.

Okay, first one is the special use permit 4410. Are you here, sir? No. Here, come on right up here.

Yes.

Okay. Okay, so you're looking to up it from three horses to four.

I was actually going to change that tomorrow. We're going to change it to six.

These things are not here. Are you Kevin? Are you Kevin?

I think that was in part three. Yeah, so what originally happened with this whole thing, I don't know if everybody knows the story, but we applied for a special use permit. We got it, we had it. Then the town told us that we didn't need it if we got the Erie County permit. And then the Erie County permit dictated because we have 10 acres, we could have nine animals. So we didn't abide by the three anymore because we still have the Erie County permit. Then two years later, after we stopped paying for the special use permit, because I was told we don't need it, I got a letter saying, No, you do actually need. So here we are applying for it again.

So with the initial special use permits, was that for three or four horses?

Yeah, and that's what we had until we got the Erie County one, which dictated differently. But then we did that and now we're going back to a special use because we need both.

You're going to get a little amount of course, of course, you would like to keep on the property.

They're not always going to be there. They get sent to trainers every once in a while until the kids can learn on the trainer. So are you extend this there? Yes. And Erie County AG says.

So you were you're in the AG district.

That one, I don't know.

Yeah. I know I have an Erie county and yeah, and our that's different. That's different from what he's talking about. So he's not an egg district property zoning wise. He's just. Has an egg carry county permitting with the egg or not in the zoning aspect that we normally talk about. What's the difference they have different. Regulations on their property. Do we know his regulations to Erie counties? If he was admitted into the AG district, it would be different, but he's not, he's part of the AG, but he's not, he hasn't been granted AG district on his zoning property.

Yeah. I don't, I don't know all the intricacies to it.

He just, he's just requesting to go from three to four and now four to six horses. Yeah.

is a great time.

So that's new. You're on a split part. You have two parts of each other. So they are joined.

Okay, then I wasn't there. We were told we had to join. Yeah. Coming from it. And then when we got the Erie County permit after they were joined. That's your black lines. Yes. And that was where we put the horse barn when we first got the special use permit, which we ended up getting a full permit for just in case down the line we ever wanted to keep the building with not having it. Okay. And you currently have a building permit on site? Yes.

And that's for the addition in the back of the house? Right.

Okay. Yeah.

And the hot tub that's out front, where is that going? So the hot tub out front?

You don't know where you're putting that yet? It's not up to me. I just follow what I'm told.

You're honest.

Did you bump the porch out in the front?

No.

It was always bumped out like that? It didn't go straight across on the second floor?

Oh, yeah, that was bumped out a while ago.

is that permitted charge now so will you be amending your site plan application to the county when changing the the four to six and well how does that how did all the paperwork as far as i know what the county they just told us we can have up to nine okay and we didn't need to

every time we changed the status, they were just like nine is your max. That's it. Yeah. I'm just reading this application. So it's right. So I talked to, I can't remember. I might've been Rhonda today because I called to find out when the next meeting, once I needed something said, I suggested I come today. Then I asked how to change it from the four to six. And she said, I have to come in and fill out a piece of paper tomorrow morning that put that through for the next meeting.

He's not Mr. Tony. I can, because he was talking, he's saying that you're in county and I'm just assuming not the ag district because we haven't had anyone into the district within the last so many years.

I can check that question. Well, he's had horses there for several years.

I didn't want to speak out. I'm making an assumption as to what I know the history and the data is. Yeah, I know, but just because we talked about it.

When he has the new permit for the addition in the back, what about the second story deck that there's no railings? And he says the second story was bumped out and it sure doesn't look like those are large enough piers to hold that second floor for steel in there. Did he get a permit for the bump out? Sorry, let's do this.

Do you know how much grazing you'll have back there? You think about around?

Doesn't mean you have so much per animal.

Yeah, because you're supposed to also rotate them. So we have one grazing in the backyard, which we use for the horses that get picked on.

I guess I'm trying to figure out how much back lot you have with your... How much you're including for pasture. And what you have in the back property, because you're saying 10 acres, and I think the property you have is larger than 10 acres with everything that you have. It might be closer to...

I don't want to misspeak. No, I think it's time. It's time because I know it was on 1 and then we bought. Okay. So that's what so the 9 that goes back halfway goes back to the wetlands and stops.

So just roughly footage.

A 100, 4,000, 4,000 square feet, 4,000 feet back. Okay. I think that's 120 wide if I recall correctly. So you've got 2000 clear. Yes.

Yeah, so it's two acres for the first horse and one acre for each additional horse.

What do we do with the manure? Where does that go? That goes in the back corner. That's on the site plan too. Okay. There was a bigger copy of this. It must have missed it. Yeah, I can kind of show you. It would be back... Yeah, that's the horse barn.

So you're cleared almost to the free line? To the hard trees, yeah.

OK. Yep.

But they're well within 200 feet. You'll have to do the special use then every year?

That's what I'm being told now. I think that stands.

Yeah, you'll have to renew your permit. There's been discussions about maybe going in a different direction with that. That might not. But up until that happens, or if it happens. Right now, you'll just every year reapply for that.

Yeah, did originally until we got the Erie county and then. I think it was new with the Erie county and your special use. So there was confusion inside the town even because. That's kind of what they stated to me.

There's been a lot of discussions around ag animals and what we're doing with the county and vice versa. So that's why it's another reason why I'm clarifying. I want to make sure because I said something. I want to make sure that I know where you stand. It has nothing to do with on one level as to the amount of animals you're asking for and what you're doing, what you're there for. um you have enough property for it um it would be the newer it would be to make sure you're not running a commercial property and that you have your setback set which they look like they are i believe it's um i was on the egg for seven years sorry so i know the horse barn had to be 25 feet yeah the property line which it is yes and then 100 feet from any um

or 200 feet from a neighboring residence which you are you are away from yeah so yeah because even the house is way in the back of the way and yeah so the one on the left the big right yeah and the one this way he's way up to the front that's yes that's the guy that just started framing right that's my uncle yeah yeah that one there that helps

So other than, the only thing I was wondering is, because of the principal use on your property, that's why I asked if those were two separate properties. But you said that you put those.

No, yeah, we went through. I had to get a lawyer and have it go to Erie County, and that was my argument.

I have another question for how does it work with grass cutting on your property when you're ex-status?

It would go, home rule will come forward. But when you're in an agricultural district, which is what we're talking about, there's a bunch of those properties on there. They have a little bit more leeway as to their ag practice. Your county ag more or less watches over the property.

The reason I'm asking this, it looks like you had cleared up to the new lot and put all your trailers there, but now everything's engulfed in three feet of grass. There's only one trailer. There's something else in there. Maybe I didn't see. There's a second boat trailer. I put that there Monday. So that was moving until then. The trailers, I'm just saying that they passed a grass law, granted, recently. Grass law? You're supposed to cut your lawns off.

If the front is empty a lot, that's not maintained. That's, you don't have to do that.

That's in conjunction with you can't sell your neighbor's tomatoes off.

So as far as, yeah, your special use permit with the horses, I don't see any problem with that. It's not a commercial property and your setbacks are right and everything in your acreage.

I think we can, my question about is porch. I think we can move forward and we could just have Casey address that.

Yeah, definitely.

motion to approve six animals seconds or whatever oh no you make an emotion sir i'll make some of the second whatever all right i'm doing this again discussion all in favor okay sir i'm just wanted to follow up you can follow up with that permit but you've been approved and okay thanks for coming in thank you Okay, certified auto brokers. That was from February. We approved that. The paperwork never got from here to the clerk to get from the clerk to the town board. I did that last week. Okay, so that's done.

Yeah, we approved all that, and it was all done.

We talked to Bob earlier. He thought something had changed, and the reason it was back, I told him, they approved that.

No, the paperwork didn't get done, so building put it back on as unfinished business. Is that a result of not having a secretary? Yep, and I'm not that great of a secretary. Okay, next is Grand Island Reset. Is he here? Not here again. He... What's going on?

We probably need Casey because they sent an email.

Didn't we? Well, we all talked about it, but the vote didn't shake out like it should have. What do you mean? So we didn't get enough yeses, I believe. Somebody said that. It was Casey.

I bet it wasn't appropriate for me to vote because I wasn't here for it.

Well, we weren't like really... If that's how you guys took it, that's my fault. I wasn't like doing an email boat. We were just trying to see if we could overlook things because he got scammed by the scam artist for $3,300, saying that he was me. And if he paid $3,300... We would be approved and we wouldn't have to come to the planning board.

Yeah, but I don't necessarily think, to me, it was when we looked at the site plans, our question was parking. We had that answered. And then the rest of it, we didn't see any major modifications that we were talking about.

They brought up the deals. There was a large section in the building that wasn't accountable. What were they doing? yeah oh in that so we didn't know this is what taipei used to be right yes so we didn't know if they were building like you know books or something that they would drive the parking different way from the emails dave did you get a majority of yes it's from the email here's the issue i don't i think it was those bathrooms aren't for clients if i remember right i'd have to go look norm But it wasn't like a vote to approve.

Well, we didn't do that right now.

Well, we never, no, no, wait a second. We always said no voting to approve on emails. Because remember, it got out of control. Maybe it was before you were even on the board. It got out of control for a while. And we all walked it back. Said no more voting on the email. What I was looking for is if everybody thought we could give him... some form of leniency because of the scam and that he could get started with items that weren't going to really affect his building permit yet.

And then that would be now in my recollection was that then Casey sent back a note and said, thanks, everybody. You know, we're going to go ahead with it and we're being good citizens basically.

So, it was like a favorite thing, right? I don't feel like we can go back on that. No, I'm not saying we could go back. I'm saying that we should that's officially approved.

If you want a reminder, then I would move that we officially approve this via the notes that we had on the... Hey, Casey, are these bathrooms ADA compliant?

Do they have to be?

I was back in here recently after the fire. And we had inspected them.

Well, I don't know if they were changed because I was just in there before these people looked at it and they were nowhere near compliant.

yeah i mean that's okay affirmed uh to grand island reset affirm the vote so moved everybody in favor next is cottage bakery um i don't believe is that that's a few months I think they got a little messed up with the town board, but they got you something.

Yeah, I went there first instead of here.

But I think we tabled it last week. We tabled it when we were here last week. So what are you doing?

So I want to put a bait cart. It's going to be on wheels, and I want to be able to put it out to... the end of the driveway. I go to markets and if I have like extra and I can't sell at a market, I want to be able to come home and put it on the Grand Island site. Like this is what I have come pick up or any of my pre-orders for the week. I can have like a set pickup time between like nine and two on Saturdays and Sundays so that any order, instead of like having to sit home all day waiting for somebody to get an order, I can just put it out on the bait cart and they can come and pick it up from there.

So you wouldn't be necessarily manning the cart?

No, it would just be drop off, pick up. Like I would, put everything out there and then people would just come pick it up.

And you're just talking about the weekend, Saturday and Sunday. Yeah.

Saturday and Sunday. Yeah. I work a full-time job. So it's just going to be like the weekends when I do markets mostly.

What do you bake?

everything, cakes, cookies, brownies. I'm not going to put cakes or anything out there, but it's going to be mostly like cookies, brownies, blondies, stuff like that.

I have a question for the building inspector. Yes. Per cart, remember we passed a ruling about the roadside stands, would that fall as a roadside stand? It would be a farming stand. Right, so that's not this. Not exactly. Okay. Anyone else have any questions? You think your neighbors are not going to have any issues?

No, my neighbors are going to be fine. They get a lot of treats.

I don't think anyone came to the town board.

No, they didn't. I was there. Nobody from my neighborhood was there.

I just got to ask my daughter, any gluten-free?

I don't do gluten-free.

She's always looking for... Any other questions? Motion? So moved.

Motion to approve by Brad.

Second. Was that you, Dave? Oh, sorry. I did that. Greg. Greg, I'm sorry. Yeah, we . Same time. He's mad at me. OK, you're all settled.

Oh, thank you very much.

Thank you. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All in favor?

Aye.

No, you're good.

No, you're approved.

No, you're approved. Unapproved or not. If that was free, I was going to vote it down.

Communications received and filed. Where are we with, okay, best law.

Apparently she sent another version.

i think the one you originally said it didn't have red lines the literal red lines on it it was just a copy of it but there was no yeah that i think came after like a couple hours or something i know i don't think that one's maybe

So which one did you just print us? The latest one?

The one that I sent to you guys. The one that I printed is definitely the one that I sent to Dave after Atlanta. It looks like the one with the red marks in it. Tom sent me a red line thing.

Let me see.

One had draft across it, which is what I think is the red line one.

This is . This is more than what you guys have, so why don't we do this? Can you put it up on that?

I can do it here. I mentioned this before. Why are we allowing a contractor to comment on our law before the law is even in effect?

I agree. Good point. Everybody can comment on our law.

We're using his input. He's having more input than we are at this point.

some you're asking questions he knew the answer the concerns i have is the the between the attorney and that writing the law and we received an email that was headed from that that company that's what i was wondering because there's other companies out there that are looking for the town too so i wanted to go back and sort of say how did this get started and is it because of the commercial uh interest or is it because the town is lacking something

Is there power being generated on the island right now that's being wasted and not going back into the grid? So why are we doing this?

My understanding is the whole because we had people reach out about putting these in and as the law exists, there are no regulations with respect to them at all.

So who is the who? Is it just this one contractor?

I think there's way more than one.

There might be even more now. So I go back to, is this trying to fulfill a need that is required here on the island?

No matter what, we need a law to regulate.

No, he's asking the battery systems themselves.

Is that something we need to have? It's not, but it doesn't matter whether we need it or not. That doesn't change the fact that they can submit an application to put them here, and if we don't have laws regulating it, they're going to go here no matter what. That's what's been lost in translation here. Dave Kuntz, Is the cold Davis thinking we're doing this reactively to permit them know we're not we're doing it, because if we don't do something they will be permitted, with no regulation whatsoever.

Dave Kuntz, To your point it's lucrative for them to install it. Dave Kuntz, Oh sure, yes, yeah.

Dave Kuntz, they're making money off of it, yes, absolutely, yes, so the code, the code is in there's a battery storage code it's very brief says. Application, site plan. There's nothing there.

In the solar portion. That was meant more for if I put rooftop solar on my house and elect to use that instead of selling mine back to the grid, that was what that was meant to cover. It wasn't these types of battery storage facilities. It was meant to cover a battery storage facility associated with An alternative power generation.

Somebody who has a Tesla wall. Why are we going to allow them on the island?

Anything that says... What's that? We don't have anything currently that says we can't allow them to do it, right?

So that's why I'm asking why we're going through all this. Why do we need that?

We don't necessarily need them, but you can't just say, we don't want to have adult entertainment stores on the island. So they're gone. That's not how it works. Property owners have rights too.

So I guess where my direction comes from is the question as to how we are going about writing this law and how we are actually writing this in location for one particular build out versus another versus what fits into the proper places for these to go because we've built the law in a way that hits seeker and it hits our zoning and it hits our setbacks on that level. And so my concern, my questioning was that. There are a lot of questions that and things I mean, I'll be honest with you. This came in Friday. I tried to look through it last night quickly and today, but my question is that. I'm concerned that we are, which I think is awesome and appreciative for the people that are in the knowledge that work within this industry. But the concern I have is that being guiding the law versus the town guiding where we want this to go. And the pop popper processes are coming from what we see as a town and you guys at the ultimately approve at the town board that We know, I don't know, I guess I do know what I'm saying, but it's not coming out well. I'm concerned to see guidance coming from.

Yeah, what you're trying to say is we have the user trying to tell us how to regulate what they want to do, rather than us saying, no, you're going to conform to the way we want.

My ultimate thought is an overlay. My ultimate thing was building this over an overlay, setting in our secret and putting these places in where we are allowing them within our town, but they're within the right places. And that conversation I haven't really seen. So I kind of threw a major red flag up when I seen notes from

So currently our solar parks have to be 500 feet from a residence?

Yeah.

And what about these battery storage facilities?

100 maybe, if that.

Well, don't forget the distance for the solar visual.

Yeah.

The visual impact of driving by and seeing all them solar panels. Right. So that was why when we did the solar law, they picked that larger number. These are like how they explained them, like a bus. Yeah, right. With batteries, trays, and all this other...

Pardon?

Yeah, I mean, there should be, absolutely.

And that there's got to be noise involved in it because those got to have cooling systems on it.

So how loud is it? HVAC systems on top of a school bus. I mean... Was that any lower than the HBA?

I don't think that would be enough to cool that. That's going to have to be.

Norm, do you have any input on that? No, I don't. There are requirements in here to limit the noise levels.

Is it going to be backing up against houses?

That's what I'm saying. There's a big one on Whitehaven. It's right in somebody's backyard.

So, Tom, Tier 2 and Tier 3, they both have stated in here that they're both greater than 600 to 5. They're basically saying they're the same thing. There's no difference between the capacity. Yes, thank you. And I'm learning, so I missed both these.

I think the 2 is incorrect.

Yes.

I'm going to, how am I doing this, Tom?

No, what I was going to do is I will, I'm going to, I have a draft email that I was going to send right to Bridget and the town board with the comments. Okay. But hey, can I, you have, let me see. I just want to see if there's any differences.

So I actually went through and typed up my comments, knowing that we, that Dave was gonna be our secretary. So I could go through these sort of point by point and see whether we agree or disagree.

Why don't we do this? Let's go through them point by point. Can we make copies of those so we can look at them? I think I have, I have a couple.

I only have two copies. Yeah, Mark, and then I'll mark it up in that way as we go through, I can just circulate it to them.

But yeah. We currently don't have any of these around.

How do we know? These are almost $8 to $10 million investment per five can of wine. These guys that are asking are fives. That's why I'm telling you. And they're Tesla batteries? Because you missed some of this. They're Tesla batteries? Okay, they are. They're lithium-ion batteries. When he's done... Tesla, in the purchase contract, Tesla comes back and picks them up and they replace them.

They recycle.

So it's not like you would close and, you know, leave all that stuff there. So that's part of their... That's part of their purchase.

Well, and the batteries do, year after year, their effectiveness. Right, right. Five years, you got to replace them. It's stuck on your phone. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, you get it?

Yeah, but it's all in the model. Yeah, I know. They haven't seen it. I just don't think anyone has seen the last one I had. Oh, yeah, that's why I asked her. But the ones out there, the ones she's working on. Oh, and you're why she sent them.

Yeah, and your reason why not. Someone has a... All right.

Yeah. So remember, these are my comments, so anybody can add or subtract to them. But so I was looking at the red line, red line comments. I did ask, what is there a growing need? What's the evidence, Tom? You talked about that. There's line eight. There just should be a copy.

It's not. Oh, I'm sorry.

And semi colon, instead of a comma. So, um, in 3 a, I said, add public utilities, sorry to the. It's taken no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. property owners and business owners, operators with guidance and flexibility and satisfying the energy code.

So it public utilities. Yeah, it could be in the future.

Yeah. Yeah. Then I just, just a formatting D E F and G all start with two and you already have two up at the start. So I said, take the two out. Um, definitions of the BESMS, which is the Energy Storage Maintenance System, where they said, and this was something we brought up in December, was add operating parameters provide for notification of impacted parties, including the Grand Island Fire Department. So, um, It's great to have a management system in there, but if it doesn't coordinate or alert anybody, it's sort of useless.

So one thing in the latest version is the addition of a definition of a commissioning plan written by describes the means and methods throughout the planning procurement deployment integration operation the project that are required to document verify the bes associated controls and safety systems As required by NFPA 855, armed robber working order.

No, I mean, what Dave is speaking of is different. It means actual real-time communication between the management system and the fire department.

Hmm. So, no, no.

Well, that's what I mean. I don't know. Without knowing what NFPA 855 says, if that's something that would be required as part of that, it would fall within the scope of the commissioning plan.

Well, I think it's going to be covered in both places. Yes, it'd be covered in the commissioning plan, but I think it should be a part of this definition.

So...

The battery energy storing system, I said, jeez, I left my glasses. One or more devices associated together capable of storing energy in order to supply battery electric energy. Oh, thank you. Oh, you're my hero.

Just two.

Does it help or no?

Perfect. So not doing a standalone 12-volt battery or a battery electric motor vehicle. That's the word before electric motor vehicle, a battery electric motor vehicle. Yeah. Yeah. So then I had the same question I think that Jen and Norm had here about the definition of Tier 2 battery and Tier 3 battery. The definitions, particularly of Tier 3, seems to be the same as Tier 2. And I just wanted to add to the Tier 3 part after, at the end of the black words there, and are considered a primary use of the land, not an accessory use, and are reselling energy back to the grid. I think that's an important part of what tier three should be dealt with.

What's the difference from two and three? Right now, there is no difference. No, I mean, of a tier two thing and a tier three thing. Size of the facility.

All right.

And then you got our considered primary use of the land, Dave. So does that mean if I have a building and I can rent this guy a space, I can't do that?

for the tier three. Tier three.

Yeah. And that's because of the size of the amount of power. Okay.

I just want to know, because this is not my will also.

So I have to learn it just like John here.

I think three is light relative to the 600 kilowatt. This draft was sent out after the draft we got over the weekend because the changes are in here.

Who and three are different in this?

I don't know. I sent you guys everything.

One and two are the same. Not two and three.

We're saying three is the same definition as two. Yeah, if you look at it. 600. The first seven. Five megawatts. 600 kilowatts of hours for five megawatts. They're both reading the same.

Two and three. Yeah.

That hasn't changed between... Well, it's... Yeah. Sorry, I'm like that one. The first sentence is aggregate under tier two, it says aggregate energy capacity greater than 600 kilowatt hours. Or five megawatts. Or five megawatts, right.

Which is the same sentence in three. Yes, I agree.

So that makes sense to me, but it looks like the same thing to me.

Yes. Well, I just added an FPA wasn't included as a definition. I suggested adding it, particularly since we see it.

Those are so fire code and FPA 55 are both added in the definition section of this most recent draft.

So paragraph 5A2. This is grammatical. Last sentence there. Storage systems to the town of Grand Island, I said, should be in the town of Grand Island. A3. I just have a question here. Do we have battery drainage storage systems constructed or installed prior to the effective date? So my question was, we don't know. A6 was confusing because they define the uniform fire protection and building code as the building code. But then when you start using that reference, they change it in B2 to the uniform code. So in A6, building code should be changed to uniform code. I think I'll work on her.

She defines fire code too. So I think she needs to clarify those.

But there and after, she never uses the word building code again. It's always uniform.

Right, that's what I mean. So uniform is, but both now uniform code and fire code are both independently defined in this newest draft. But the... They're defined, but they haven't been changed throughout the rest of the law. So that chapter is mentioned.

It's called the Solar Law as well. 5A. B5. I think it says it supersedes. I don't know.

5, 6, where's that? The Solar Law. Yeah, I agree. It's like an archetypal.

Yeah.

Make sure I got it.

I think it's page eight.

No, you're not right. Two or three years ago, New York State went to defining professional engineers by their discipline. And I can't sign off an electrical drawing. I can sign off a structural drawing or a civil drawing, but I can't sign an electoral or a mechanical or a fire protection. So this needs to be, this is really important part here. That New York State professional engineer in the specific appropriate discipline, i.e. civil, structural, electrical, strike architect, No, New York State now is discipline-specific relative to engineering licenses. We need electrical engineers signing off on this stuff, not... Well, yeah, not even civil or... No. I wouldn't... Somebody came in and saw my signature on this for an application, that'd be nuts.

So it should say certified in writing by a licensed electrical New York State professional engineer. Correct.

But what about the site changes and things?

Well, I said New York State engineer in the specific appropriate discipline, i.e. structural, civil, electrical, whatever. And then I said strike architect. So yeah, I would expect the site plan to be signed by a civil. But all this electrical stuff needs to be an electrical engineer. That's a big deal for me. That's fair enough. Yeah.

is going on in this draft, though it's not showing up.

You have a different draft than we have. I just got it printed.

I didn't realize I got it.

OK. 5A. OK. Move 1. Because you're going over this right now, don't you think we should include in there the solar law supersedes whatever paragraph for the battery storage and the solar law? OK.

Yeah, I don't know. Is it just related to solar? Yeah, it has to be. No. Well, no, I haven't taken up because yeah, right.

Just right. Currently, the solar law has a battery storage. If this is going to supersede chapter four or seven of the town of Grand Island, Sony law should also supersede. So that paragraph on my reference. Well, I don't know what paragraph it is in there, but. You said there was a paragraph in there about the solar law. of battery storage in the solar log.

Yeah, because when you see the solar log, chapter 296 solar law, definitions, batteries, low flow, lead acid battery, lithium battery, nickel clad. Talks about batteries.

Yeah.

I understand they were meant for the solar.

But what you're saying, Brad, is regardless solar or not, He's trying to energy should be all compliant within our code. You're trying to keep it even more so. Yes. So that the two are. Yeah. Well, I don't want somebody to sit here on solar doesn't mean you get this. Right. I will. Right here.

Yeah. It's got to supersede the battery portion of that laws. Right.

Because I would think this would be the batteries. Right. Even though it's in the solar.

I agree.

Oh, it's okay.

No, I do. But I I'll have to dig in on that a little bit. We just have to modify that one to distinguish because they're not. I don't think you'd ever have a

Well, we're redoing the solar law, right, too? Eventually. Right. So really, this is a catch. But once we redo the solar law, it's something that we can implement before that gets approved. But we're kind of doing a quick overlap in here.

But the purpose of this, I don't think, would be to apply these same standards to the smaller storage systems that are already permitted, that are accessory to this.

I don't think the battery storage...

provisions in that don't regulate it on size does it well it has to go from that has to be affiliated with a solar system so you're it's going to be the only generation solar system itself is only going to generate so much it's not going to store okay but definitely something that we need to make sure is clear that If we want them to comply with the sign, but I don't think that's mentioned, but no.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay.

So where are you? So now I'm on stage eight.

I'm not going backwards. Seven, eight, six.

Have you gone over that one? Yeah. Your comment there. Right. I agree with that. Yes. But I also think that the first line building from an application can be accompanied by a line drawing. It should be just by drawings identifying electrical components. It's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. So that line.

Yeah.

Yeah. So on page 8B.

Are you making these changes as we're going? I'm noting the ones on here. I've got a copy of this.

So under fire safety compliance plan, I said, and within 300 feet of a fire hydrant. That may be controversial, but if you can't get water to a fire, there's a problem.

And the newest draft does include there both the commission plan and the hazard mitigation analysis that are required per site plan review.

So I guess I'd still like to see that in there. And this is frustrating only because I had something I typed up and shared with Bridget relative to this item, but this is just clearly wrong. The New York City Fire Department does not certify installations. They do, however, require a approval from the manufacturer of the equipment. And I sent her a copy of the New York City fire code. I circled it for her, and obviously she didn't read it.

Well, I think that that's something that was also brought to her attention by whoever. Why doesn't Power and those guys have the same thing? They don't certify it themselves. We're getting bad service from this attorney.

My only question is, what does New York City Fire Department have to do with us anyway? Good point.

Well, I think it's the argument that they're so overly protective and allow these things anywhere, so they keep using the New York City code, that that's the best code you could have out there.

The rationale from those guys and from the power guys is if New York City deems these things safe enough to put on top of buildings, we should be able to put them wherever we want here, which...

What I would put in there is that Grand Island requires that a manufacturer provide a certificate of approval of the equipment. It doesn't have anything to do with New York City.

Somebody who is qualified and certified. Yes. That's right. But anyway, there's my comment.

So 5B, and this is something I think the board should probably address, is that Tier 1, 2, and 3 are basically all allow these in residential districts. Tier 1 probably is appropriate, but my opinion is Tier 2 and 3 should not be in residential districts.

Well, there's 3 has different requirements to be able to send one and 2, but it doesn't really have a lot of our money.

That's right. I wanted it, but that would be a 3 acre lot, which I think is probably like.

Yeah, I would still no, I gotcha. It's still in a commercial industrial use in a residential zone.

Yeah.

Yeah. I open up a collision shop. In a our one a district. I'm just asking the question. It's still a commercial enterprise.

We talked about that before, remember, about running a business out of a home.

Right.

So B3, the board record is dealing with concern for proximity to clustered residential developments, and I'm saying to include schools, daycare centers, and churches. And 5B, I couldn't figure out what it was saying. It just looks like there's a run-on sentence there. And I don't know. I just had a big question mark. And is it just formatting or?

Yeah. And also, it's as required for Tier 3.

set here to answer for tier three and then it goes on but then it says we're warranted by system size yeah is that a separate bullet or not i i was confused by it well and then i went on to paragraph f13 This is the noise level, just engineering-wise didn't make sense. Once in operation, sound pressure, it's not really sound pressure, just sound levels, straight-to-work pressure at the exterior of any residence. And I said, I didn't understand the definition of non-participating property line. What does that mean? I said strike it because I don't understand what that means.

I'm participating properly. I don't even know what that means. Next year, Ross? I don't know.

Do you know what that means?

Okay.

It's not defined in the definition.

I think property lines are required to participate. Do they get a trophy?

Although it works and you're participating over there to be I just added the grass is 3rd party New York state licensed.

Professional electrical engineer just yes, it's we go on stage we go back 1.

I think that's your number 14 and not 13. that's proven. 14 addresses the noise. And I think that's what we're going to be 13.

We have two teams and you remember these.

Oh, that's right. OK. All right.

Also, Dave, thank you. Sorry about that.

Anybody else have anything real quick? Well, you know, there was a comment that I made a while ago about under maintenance. Yeah, I think they're required to submit maintenance records. And I suggested that they should also submit operational data. Otherwise, how would we know that they're in operation?

Great point. Oh, yeah, if they're sending stuff to the fire department, why don't they send stuff here?

Show that it's well, the fire department would be receiving alarms and right. I don't know if they can receive status that it's online offline. What the output is. But I mean, it could sit there for months without the town knowing that it's out of service. Nobody would be the wiser.

My notes from our December meeting were to adopt Norm's comments from the November meeting on this issue. And I think that's where you're already. So if you pull out the November meeting minutes.

No, I know.

Norm's comments are in there.

Jim, I think, made the same comments, right?

Well, I was going to ask Jim a few. It's OK with the board.

I think Jim might be able to speak, too.

Is it OK with the board to have Jim from CAB talk to us? Yeah, perfect. Everybody good?

Yeah.

Come on up here, Jim. Come up here, Jim. That's the hot seat for him.

Yeah, that's the hot seat.

I think I'll hand it.

Well, thanks for coming. Give me some time here. I looked at these comments and I've had a bunch of comments on this law. And what I'm detecting what's happening now is when you look at, I think the biggest issue here is that there was no referral or no review. of nfpa of standard but in particular nfpa 55 because dave when you're talking about 300 feet from a hydrant yep i'm remembering that nfpa says on the site so what's happening just happens in a bunch of areas where this law uh contradicts 855. it doesn't include all the 855 requirements and in some places it contradicts actually what is required when you talked about the engineer, right? You're absolutely correct. But in this industry, they have what are called, there's two terms for a special expert or a qualified person. And there are so many red lines going around. It was in some of the markups. Actually, it's in the markup I have in front of me, but I think there's a lot of markups going around. And I, frankly, after the last planning board meeting, I went and I captured Eric, actually, Eric Anderson's partner out there. And Eric Anderson and I have been talking about this law at some length. And he and I agree on the changes that need to be made. And the things that are missing from the law now are fully agreeable to Carson Power. Why? Because the standard ways that you do this work. And this law was prepared completely lacking any knowledge of what's in 855. I think O'Toole mentioned at the last planning board meeting, she hadn't even looked at it. When I talked to her, she wasn't familiar with it. Look, if you're all right about the service here, okay, it's terrible.

Okay. I don't know how you want to do this. I'm going to stop you for one second. Didn't we just address that N-55 deal, that that had to be in the law?

Well, we referenced it in the definitions.

The definitions. So then that's there.

It is there. I think it could be stated stronger.

It's in here all over the place now. Right. I'm looking... This is under application requirements. Commissioning plan is required by NFPA 855. Engineers.

What are you saying is that's really a broad.

Hazard mitigation analysis per NFPA 855. Fire safety compliance plan per NFPA 855. Emergency response plan as required by NFPA 855. Decommissioning plan.

as required but so all of it's now the vast majority of the red lines i think the disconnect maybe the lawyer doesn't understand that like we're in the construction business we understand that type of stuff more maybe that's not her wheelhouse i don't know but it's in there so that was your point that that needed to be in there it's there the the law is inconsistent with an fba so this is something eric and i talked about and i think that that's probably his markup that he actually put that in there

in a markup that I don't know who else saw it. So I think that's the fundamental issue right now is that the law as written is not consistent with NFTA in a number of locations. In particular, this thing about, and it was one of the CABS comments last year, These special experts, these are people who understand the system, who are probably predominantly electrical engineers.

I would hope so.

They are the people who understand best, and they understand A55, and they understand the standards. And in NFPA 58, it says the authority having jurisdiction can make the applicant pay for this special expert to review the application. uh the commissioning plan which wasn't in here before but is it's in some of these markups uh lays out how this thing is designed how it's manufactured how it's shipped how it's installed how it's tested and it had and it includes uh construction what i call construction inspection inspection while it's being built whereas what this law, I don't know what it says anymore, but it talked only about going in after it's built. There's all kinds of QA and QC going on when this thing's getting built, and that's what the commissioning plan talks about.

Isn't that something, Casey, to interrupt? Isn't that something that you would do, Casey, as a building inspector? If I'm going to build one of these things, you're going to go there as I'm Like, they're going to be like, oh, I mean, I'm familiar with the residential home. There's a series of inspections.

Should there be some minutes and build a brick building with foundation? We were going back that.

But as far as the, all of the. Going in this place, well, you outsource an electrical.

Is normally what happens when you start the equipment up. And a detailed written description of what should happen when you throw this switch when you do this, you do that and you should receive this result and get that result. I mean, that happens during the startup commissioning is during the startup of a, you know, of a system, right?

And that's a 55 line.

I'm not mentioning starts with what I'm saying. Okay. I mean, I mean, that's, I mean, I'm not familiar with that.

Yeah, the surely the write up and the sort of the menu has to be done during design, but to Norm's point, you don't really commission the thing until it's yes. Put it online. Ready to go on.

However, Oh, the plan. The commissioning plan, however, starts with design. Absolutely. Okay, and it includes things in terms of inspection. It's one thing to talk about how to switch it, but where is the manufacturer's quality assurance data for that battery, for instance?

This requires, this newest version requires both a commissioning plan and then it also requires, hang on, let me see it. After the completion of construction and before the operation, the applicant shall provide a pre-construction certification for a licensed New York State professional engineer in the form of the commissioning report per NFPA 55 that indicates the project complies with all of the applicable codes and industry standards, industry practices, and operating... Commissioning report is what I have called certification report.

In other words, that is a report about the construction.

But that includes all the data, right? Includes all... Also has... a separate thing saying it requires a commissioning plan as required by NFPA 855. So there are two different things. The commission plan is what we were just talking about. It's not that size of a design.

The commissioning plan talks about having to produce a commissioning report. So the commissioning plan talks about you have to do inspection during construction. And what you get out of that inspection in the end is a commissioning report. It says, we built it. Here's the manufacturer's quality control data. Here's the tests that we did. Here's the photographs we took. And someone certifies that it was built in accordance with the requirements. And that's the commissioning report.

Which is what the- Well, both are required. Well, let's, I guess my proposal, I just talked to Dan about he and I sitting down and pounding this out, but perhaps- two of you maybe would be willing to join us and sit down and maybe go through this most recent version and try and...

I'd be real happy about that. There's a lot of stuff here that... Even the idea, and I don't know where the... When you talked about tiers, I'm sorry to interrupt. Here's the thing, and Eric and I agree, there should be two tiers. What is this cutout for ag that allows apparently... enough batteries to store 110% of the power that this farm used all last year. That's like 50,000 kilowatt hours. I mean, why would you store, because you can charge these batteries that much in four hours. Four hours, you can pump 50,000 kilowatt hours in there. Why do you need on a farm 110%? There is no difference between whether there's Essentially tier three facility. They both have the same requirement. There's no difference. It's a vest. I don't matter if it's on a farm.

Yeah, I agree. It's the system's the system. I don't care what it's connected to.

And no cutout for egg because it's not warranted. But then there's other things like no compaction. under a road. Catch that one, Dave? If it's on a farm, you can't compact. It says you need a road to hold up, and a little potlucky will tell you you need 70,000 pounds, right? In this law, you can't compact the soil under the road. That's how deep the problems are. How about avoid and minimize? Which one? You can't avoid and minimize. This is a law.

Right.

I never wrote law. I wrote specs. You can never get away with that in a specification. Avoid and minimize. Guess what the contractor is going to do?

We will do what we need to, but the two of us would probably just make this worse. Jim and Dave and Norm, a combination of you guys to sit down with Dan and I.

Would you be willing to chip in, Norm, too? You have time.

Yeah, I think Norm would be great.

So if we do Dave, Norm, and you, and Tom and Councilman Lloyd.

And I know where this idea of working with the developers, I don't mind that too much. I do believe in this case, and I'm going to point out our comments before, when you look at the purpose and intent of this law, it's all unique to Grand Island because the purpose and intent that's expressed by NERDA model law and the other 10 laws that I looked at were all the same. And the number one priority is to pick the right site. The number two priority is to review land use in the vicinity of the best. And the number three is to protect the environment. And our law right now is offering guidance and flexibility and opportunity. So now, that sounds like a developer to me. So the attorney was a little too, and I watched your meeting last month. And if you watch that meeting and didn't know who she was working for, you would swear it was Eric Anderson.

So, well, I think you guys come up to council and come up with a great idea. We ready to move forward.

So, was it going to go after that? I'm just curious.

Yeah.

So we're done. We're done here.

I'll defer to you as the chairman, but I think we would sit with them, make the changes we thought were appropriate, bring it back to the board, and then pass it.

Remember, this wasn't like an agenda item.

Yeah, but according to the way that we're now doing things, that this is something that has to come through here. And I'm sure there's other boards and people that have been involved in this that if we're going to follow the policy and procedures that you guys are trying to put in place, Although I think this is somewhat of a unique circumstance because I think we're having some problems on the back end from the way this is being written and given out. That's its own separate issue versus the policy of how things are going in the town if that is brought in.

I'm fine with it coming back here. I just remember when we started, it was just sent here as a courtesy. It'd be nice to have it as going to be

At this point, I think we're probably going to have to have another public hearing anyways, which would not be until at this point, our second meeting in July, which would give us time to get it back to you guys anyways. But in a perfect world, this thing has to get passed. We need to get something passed before we get an application in.

So why don't we have a temporary moratorium on it? what it's going to take us six months to- Well, I mean, look at what it takes six months for every law we do. So this is probably the most complex thing other than the school law that we've done.

I feel that's my- I think it's close. I think that I believe that if we get together, we can get this- They have been- Yeah.

The problem is how many red lines you guys have not seen all at once.

And that's the confusing part. It would be nice to have one document come back here.

Which is why let's just take that bull by the horn.

That we've all been through and that we can say.

So you're going to have this meeting with the three guys and the two council people.

And then you're going to send it back to us to how you guys shook everything out in the end. Jim's confident that this is ready to go over the finish line. And then it would just come back to us just to double check and for us to vote. Yeah, fair enough.

Yeah.

Okay, so then we'll just put this to the best on finished business. Thank you, Jim.

Thanks for the why don't we officially table the approval of this. Well, next meeting, and then did we voting?

Well, I guess we voted included in the agenda, right? So we can vote to table it. Okay.

I move we table at 12 o'clock.

I move we table at 12 o'clock.

I move we table at 12 o'clock. I move we table at 12 o'clock. I move we table at 12 o'clock. I will send that. I will send you the one that I was just looking at. And I'd like to have a scene where we just walk in. No, I was just saying.

Okay, now, if I had genuine brought something toward now, but something we can do real quick or.

Yeah, just because I have to bring it back to the long range. We talked about it, but if I just want, if anyone had any comments on if I can find my paperwork, but it was talking about the procedure triggers. that were in the design standards, if you guys had anything that you thought in that that you wanted to add. You know, I went through some other notes that were made. I know we talked about 30 days. I told you that's going to be up for decision or that will be an ongoing conversation. And I don't really think we have much to say on that as to where we sit on this board. There was one thing that, now, if I can find it through my notes that I wanted to bring up to you guys that I wanted to ask. Oh, I think the one thing I think where the long range was looking for this is that one of the one of the suggestions or proposed actions was to create an accountable accountability trail. So the town board records what which the planning board's conditions have been accepted, waived and modified within reasons. That being said that often I think the conversation at the long range board has been projects come forward or whatnot. And there's a lot of questionings as to did the planning board approve that? Yeah, but they approved it. Did they approve it with exceptions? Did they approve it? And things get lost in translation. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

Wouldn't that be in the minutes when we have minutes?

Yeah, I'm not saying right or wrong.

I'm saying that would be at the town.

I think that's the feedback that the long range is looking from the planning board as to what you're feeling as if there was some kind of actual, you could go back.

We had very good minutes. Yeah, but that would be in our vote.

And I don't think at least I've been on a town board. We've ever approved something that wasn't conditioned upon whatever recommendations you guys made. Do you guys make recommendations as to condition that site plan approval?

So what they've had me do in the last three months is I make a letter from us to the town board. Here's the 4410, the horse thing. Here's our motion, and here's who voted.

But I don't get the concern that they're having that.

Well, let's say there's discussions about, let's say, I'm trying to think of...

without doing that letter from us, it can't get on the town board agenda. So now all that they have to, if Long Range wants, they could just get that from the town clerk. It's there.

our agenda it's there it's right there what is the issue i'm still trying to understand our motion is typically we approve it subject to whatever and usually even our resolution ends up in the hot spot no i i totally i'm like well i'm coming back with the points of you know discussion and the plan and so going back to the notes that was the one that they were looking from like i didn't know what direction you guys would go this or if you did have any feedback i don't

Like on our agenda, one would says, you know, communications and we were getting the zoning boards, all their stuff. I think long range is looking for our document that goes to the town clerk to go to the town board. They're looking for a copy of that sent to them.

Those resolutions, which we typically didn't see.

No, our motion.

The secretary would send them to the town board, right?

When Arlene would write shorthand is all our discussion. Then when we voted, Arlene would draft a letter and saying, here's the vote, what the motion was, A, B, C, D, and how we all voted on it. We typically didn't see those. No, we never saw those. Those went directly from Arlene. To me, a copy to me, and then she sent it to the town board and I would just look at it to make sure. Whatever Arlene wrote, because sometimes. You know, 5 of us were talking at once and she couldn't figure out what we were saying.

It's just basically, we don't have a secretary do exactly.

I've been doing the letters to the clerk to go to the town board. That's why I'm writing this stuff.

it's an orange plant like if we go backwards so if i go with the problems identified if i can go back to what the proposed action was so the problem identified was that there's gaps some advisory boards don't respond timely as for planning board conditions sometimes are not tracked through to the town board decisions so i think their feeling is that the town board is not seeing planning board we don't ever approve anything until we have that letter from the planning board

Or you get the whole motion.

If they recommend approval, we recommend approval. If it's recommended approval subject to X, Y, and Z.

If we put one to 10, they agree to whatever, one through 10, five, none, whatever they agree to.

And the proposed action of that is to create an accountability trail so town board records which planning board conditions are accepted, waived, modified within regents.

I think they're looking for the copy of the motion that we give the town clerk to go to the planning board, to go to the long range.

Long range planning, by the time we approve it, it's approved and there's nothing you can do.

Well, I think it's, I think, no, I think it was looking, yeah, I think, Tom, I think it was them, we're looking at the... looking at these trigger points that we originally went back when we had a meeting with Pete Marston talking about this stuff about two years ago. And the original comment was made that we were going to put this in and we were going to come back to it within two years and look and see if these procedures work, which are in these triggers. And these are the things that, yeah.

It's not a trigger point because by the time that happens, it's gone. It's a waste of our time. If you guys respectfully, because they want to go jam somebody up, go look at the resolutions. We said both that letter from the planning board and whatever conditions we elect to adopt or not adopt will be reflected in your minutes and ours.

If they have an issue, they need to be at the town board meeting when it's on the agenda.

If it played, I would be, if it was something that happened before the approval process, I'd say, yeah, of course. But by that time, it's done. And just to go back and.

Okay, you're good, though, Jen, not good, but you did my job.

I do what I say.

How are we doing with the secretary? We'll talk.

Okay. Okay. Anybody else? Can we have any good feeling that it's going to happen?

Yeah, no, no, we're right in the six hours.

Councilman Kilmer, is this young lady for us?

Hi, I'm here from Nova Reset. has been said to come to the meeting. You got fraud payments.

You're all set. We approve, Julie. You're all set. So OK. Thank you.

Yeah, we paid you guys a lot of money. You guys.

Can I just ask one question? The open space that one of our members was concerned with, the middle of the building, you're not building like little What were we thinking, rooms or something that's staying open? Like if you're going to have a yoga session or something, you got an area.

Like a long wall in the middle, but that's going to be open. And then on the far side, there's little booths.

Right. So there's, here's your point.

Oh, yeah. Actually, there should be right here.

Are you comfortable, Dave, with the parking then?

I think so.

Okay.

So that that part's like blocked with the classroom right here.

Did you change these bathrooms to make them bigger?

No, but they are, the one is ADA compliant.

I think it was the men's room. The old men's room when it was the one that's on the back.

The one on the right, the back, bigger than the other one. For sure, but okay.

Okay. Anybody else have any questions from her? You're all set, hon. Thank you so much for coming in. Good luck. You'll get formally approved.

at the town board meeting a week from time. Okay, perfect.

After these meetings, when y'all calm down, relax.

Don't forget, I don't send you any emails asking for money.

All right.

I know.

How did that work?

We hired an architect to site plan. And on Monday, the 18th, we were going to show up to the meeting and the architect had gotten up an email from the town of Grand Island and forwarded it to me. And so since he's an architect that does this all the time, I didn't think twice about it. And so I was trying to hurry because I basically said, congrats on your pending approval. And it was timely with the meeting being that night. And I said, oh, does this mean my husband and I don't have to come to the meeting? They said no. So we didn't show up to the meeting that night either.

and one suggestion this is one of my pet peeves on some of the places on the island and it's happened before at the bank where a car ran right through the windows there should either be bollards or at least curb stones along the stuff between the sidewalk and the parking area i would love that actually because every time i pull up yeah i mean i don't want that is notorious i mean yes there's nothing there you could drive right into subway yeah in that, so.

That happened. I think Subway got it once, didn't it? When it was the something else. Well, no, it's been there forever. Yeah. So, I mean.

Sorry. Last thing, can we just keep, there's no rush, like, but let's just keep this on the site plan review because that will be coming here that we just. have that in our code, the 407-107. That's your zoning. We talked about it last meeting. Remember we had- We had HAPI's hand it out last meeting. Yeah. I said that that's, I was trying to get a little bit of ahead of it. So when the zoning board gets there, we don't do five months that you guys are kind of aware that. Could you email it to me so I can- Yeah.

Okay. Motion to adjourn, anyone? Motion. Greg, second, Jen, Angus,