Planning Board - Regular Meeting

like five minutes to look at this stuff. It would be better meeting. I understand these people can I think we can motor. I think

I would have liked to have more time. I just

I don't think Scott I don't disagree with you but I just here I mean I hate you know I hate to send everybody home that down or up that big straightforward Tell me good to go.

Like to call the planning board meeting to order. Um, we don't have a copy of our last month's meeting minutes, but anybody have anything they want to add about our minutes from last month? I think we should table them until we can see them and approve them. Okay. Together. Make a mo. Dave made a motion to table. I'll second that. Table. Dave. Second. Jen. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. I got to kind of keep some notes here as we go. Okay. 1930 baseline here for 1930 baseline.

Anyone up here, sir? Before we start, I will abstain from voting on this issue since we did. We still got Great. Have a seat. Great. Thanks. Okay. So, what'll give us a little idea what you're doing here?

Absolutely. Happy to. So, Marco Manowski from FallsCraft here on behalf of 1930 baseline. Um, we're here kind of on a second try through to go through a reszoning process of these parcels. Uh, the applicant owns from 1930 to 1960 baseline road. A portion of them, the northern portion of those sites are zoned R12. and we are looking to reszone those parcels uh over to M2 to match the existing zoning on the southern half. To help facilitate that, we we're actually uh redistributing or reallocating the land between the parcels so that both parcels are over 1.5 acres. So previously in the fall sought to get an area variance to have industrial reszone without uh meeting the 1.5 acre size. The ZBA denied that request. Um so we've reconfigured the lot such that both of them now exceed the 1.5 acre minimum for uh the M2 zoning. So that's what's shown in our in our exhibit packet is the sort of the combination there of uh of lots. Um we from from the outset uh one of the things that we would be happy to include in any reszoning uh recommendation and and potentially ultimately any approval would be a restriction on outdoor storage of of portaotties. We know that that was a problem uh the last time we had a individual that was running and storing port bodies there and as you can imagine that's not exactly the ideal situation for uh chasing residential neighbors. Um but otherwise we're we're looking to keep it consistent with outdoor storage or eventually to build on the site and some type of structure now that the lot's bigger. wasn't big enough

previously to to do that, but now so it's a it's a fairly simple request, but it it you know it involves a revisioning of how we're approaching it from the last which actually never got to this board because it didn't get through the ZBA. Right. Isn't it all storage at this point? Yeah, I mean it's it's indoor and outdoor storage on the parcels in in there's a structure on 1930. Um Fran, is there is there building on 1950? Yes. Okay. Building on 1950, but it's

it's mostly big building. I mean, it's that big. But 1930 has a number of Anything to add from building departments to you don't

anything Bob from engineering engineering no I mean you know what's what's tough is obviously making that transition residential to you know there are you understand you're saying portaotties but there is literally limitations of outdoor storage period went up against a residential and the implications that it has on the site yeah we we we appreciate the the limitations due due to the adjacency but it as far as what uses we we have interest in as far as from potential tenants and users it's been consistent with the M2 residential zoning. What's So this blue area,

that's the new lot. So the the the former lot was was much smaller and didn't need the 1.5 acre size. So we took some land from from the 1930 parcel. We shifted it down to it to over here. Um that's that's the uh there's a there's a residential property on the north north of my client's properties. That's that house that sits right next to it. Yeah. 1960. Y Scott, which the house that was supposed to be leave the house that said to

I know, do you know what that house actually on a foundation? Yeah, the green the older building I believe. So this used to be I'm sorry. There's a couple here. I think the first one is this one. I think that's showing I don't know.

Is that the house they were going to make some like some type of a veterans thing out of? I'm not sure. Some time ago. It's one right next to Throwway. Right next to the throwway white house. Yes. Right by the animal hospital. No spot. I'm in the wrong spot. The old Meyer house I believe which used to be used to sell ice and tap way dating yourself.

The questions I flag is just the fact just like our engineer said it having a residential and then moving it next to industrial. So, it's the idea of what the buffers and what are setbacks and what's going to be there. And usually we require some kind of buffers or whatnot and and a transition especially between those two. That's basically one end of the spectrum of zoning to the other end of zoning. So, um yeah, we would be certainly open to that idea of a you know, BM with some plantings along that boundary to to act as a buffer. There there could be many different options. Um but it would all depend on the proposed as to what you put in there, right? Sure. Sure. Yeah. We we're not we're not before you on any type of site plan. We don't have a new

but I to have that open dialogue and back conversation that that will be when you go to develop that or whatever you decide to do that will be a large consideration there. You already have that line there. the size of that lot. Then if we're just the fact that there's residential touching, right? So we're not going to shrink the lot. We'd leave normal same size. We just put in a buffer. We would ask, you know, kind of like thermal fisher did to that house next. That's what I'm talking. But that was a pretty big chunk, right? But so that's going to restrict the usage here according Are you making these all one? Yes. That's why all one piece. Yes. that

say. So if we lose some area for offer, you got plenty of room to keep these property lines are going to be gone. Okay. So I'm gonna hatch that. Yeah, that's why I want to have that open discussion that because when we're going back and forth in between two, you know, those two different zoning districts, there could be some further planning consideration. 1960 is the is the first uh that that's the residential structure that I'm referring to. So south of that is what my my clients own. And so the top that that northern most or something sorry the one that's not labeled other yeah the one that's not labeled that is part of this 1950 and you know using that for buffer purposes is not a

so you'd be looking to take the unlabeled the 1950s the 1930s and the other two unlabeleds. So those those three would be reszoned. Okay. And then 1950 is already M2 and it's going to be merged with those other parcels to get to the 1.6 acres. Wasn't this the lawn service guy? It's been a variety of uses over over time. You don't have anybody in there now, right? Isn't Isn't this LDC's? Yes. Who's this one? Is this gas? That's gas. Gas was there. Yeah. The old Conwell. Yeah. And that's my client's property as well. 1930. What about AC? So the only thing you got is this residential, right? Correct. Correct.

So our code just in case you 50 basically is a nothing literally. So it's almost a you know plan on development you know nothing nothing there and literally screening of some sort that you know would be a concept going forward. Obviously it's just about the reszone itself. Yeah. No not a problem at all. Um, we we actually did look at potentially carving it off, but then we didn't get enough frontage or acreage, so we needed to keep it in there, but keeping it for Yeah. I'm not saying right or wrong in the whole board. I'm just saying that when it comes down to what your use is and what you go there, there will probably be quite a bit of discussion as to what your buffering would be there if this board

um, moves forward with it. Tom, any input on your end or no? Um, I know this is just for the resoning, but can you share with us what your perspective use would be or that? We don't have anything at the moment because of the challenges we've gone through with the existing zoning. U, we're trying to kind of get everything back into compliance again. So, part of that is reconfiguring the lots, getting it reszoned, and then we'll revisit it. We haven't we haven't talked to anybody about doing anything out there. parcel is uns just for a point. So there is no sewer available in that area that parcel. Those would be on set. Now do you own this too?

Yes. And and the parcel across the street as well. Big fist. Yep. And that's that's R1D2. Anybody want to make a motion or folks? I got notes. Secretary apparently tonight. Has this gone before the zoning board or not? It went to the zoning board when we were when we were substandard on lot size. Okay. So, and that's what that's the variance that was denied was to to do it smaller than a one and a half acre lot. So, that's why we configured it to make it larger.

Why did it come back for Well, it wouldn't have to go back to the ZBA. So at this point it would go from you to the town board on the reszone variance required reason because what hang Tom had something to say. No I was going to say what I can't see over there that because not with the merging the lots they would size requirements. There's no need for no CPA. Yes. I agree with John with having a B. Yeah. there's going to be some kind of whatnot, but I just want to that would be site plan, right? It comes back when

I understand that corner and I understand with working in that corner or whatnot, but the consideration obviously is the the residential that's there and according to our code book, we have we have depending on the land use, we when going to develop, we have to have considerations in how we're going to work that buffer between M2, the new M2 and the R. So it could be simple, it could be a little bit more complicated depending on what the use is, but to know that that's a direction that have you ever spoke to that neighbor?

Um, they did come out and oppose the uh variance when we were before them. Um, and their concerns of course were really related to the past use that we had and they were really upset about the portaotties which again we understand. Oh, was that all gone? Yeah, that's all gone. So, so right now right now we're we're vacant right now. Right now we're vacant other than this I mean the structure that's there but there's there's nobody occupying I'll make a motion we approve with the proviso of that uh sweeper.

Yes. The site plan includes buffers between the u the habited house to the north and whatever perspective business you have to the south a second. What would be the proposed site plan? because right now we don't have them. Yeah. Making a note that we had brought that to the attention of the approval process that this would be. So Norm, so you're you're making a motion to approve the M2. Correct.

Second, Scott. Uh any further discussion? All in favor? I I I st. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Okay, sir. Thank you for coming in. Appreciate it. Of course. Thanks, guys. Yes. Thank you very much. Thanks, guys.

Okay. Next on our list. Oh, before I uh move any forward, I'd like to make u suspend the rules to add to number five to have a discussion on the campground slash bakery white on white haven. Second motion TV second, Jen. Any discussion? All in favor? Okay, that's perfect. Okay, now I'm back to number two. Grand Island Reese at 2315 Grand Boulevard. There's someone here for that.

All right. What is it, Casey? What is this? There's a build out of Taipei into the reset. It's just like a I don't know a fitness center. They do massaging and stuff. Everything's in general, right? Yeah. Are they doing I spoke with him. You're adding something outside. There's a little some kind of I would make a motion to table this because it's leaked. The drawing doesn't show any doesn't have any of the uh the checklist the uh

it says no site working there's a big it shows the elevations but Tom it doesn't show I got a call from the guy from the lease the cold therapy addition to the exterior that's going to go in action that was my question is if there's nothing outside why and it's not 20% difference or something being added outside what what is the planning board looking at

questions is it looks like it this it's an existing pad the reason it's here because it's arguably a change of from a restaurant center. Right. Okay. So that's what he wants to add on. I'm assuming that's on the back Casey. That little head bump out in the back of the building. Yes. Not the full elevation. It is. I think if you look if you look at the pictures that it's that

a small There's a garage door there with small concrete pad. That's where it's and the pad, my understanding from speaking with it is the pad is there because that's where the cooler was located when it was Taipei. It was removed after the fire. Okay, that's why basically all the work being done inside except that outside edition is less than a th000 square feet, but that wouldn't exist. Well, the interior. So, so the question is is do the does the performance require different from what's provide? Does it have enough parking?

Yes, it would be a reduction. We don't just ask. So, there's really there's no exterior modification. Well, yeah, they're closing in that pad. used to be able,

you know, I wonder how many people he expects. He's got 13 treatment rooms and then probably 40% of the area is open. So, I would expect something else would be going on there. So, it sounds like he's looking for a fair number of people to be here. Um, it might be the same as the restaurant, but I guess we don't know that factually. And secondly, does look like there's an overhead door shown on the pictures, but on the drawing, I don't see any overhead door. It's right here, I believe. Right. What about the pad? Is the pad have a foundation underneath that pad? Would be building on it. Do that. That's the addition. And there's an overhead door shown.

See if there's a footer under that door, right? Oh, okay. Okay, gotcha. Really? They're not doing anything with pet stay that door. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. What do you want to do, Dave? I'm uh Norm suggested tableabling. I I think we got a lot of questions that I don't see us answering, so I I move that we table. Second. Yeah, Dave was the second. I'm sorry, Nor. I'm sorry, Nor. We need the table when nobody's here. And D second. Any further discussion? All in favor?

Okay. Number three, AOA. AOA here. Come on up and have a seat, sir. Please move the map over to get the KOA. Sure, if you can. That map is super helpful. I'm sorry. Oh, it is. catch up eventually.

Yeah, we'll catch up. Worked okay when Bob touched it.

Okay, sir. What do you got going on? Well, what we're proposing is to uh split section of the Lang Boulevard property, 410 Lang property. Uh we're going to split that in half, keep the larger section zoned M1 as it is now, and reszone the smaller section to North Business District, which would allow us to put employee housing for the general manager in there. Uh currently M1 does not allow any type of residential. Northern B northern Business District does however allow residential. So we're looking to put employee housing for the general manager, the current general manager and possibly a future general manager uh on that portion. So what we would like to do is we would like to pretty much split the property in half right here. This section I should have this

okay I just need it's an accessory okay this section here remains zoned out more than this northern business district currently we have a maintenance facility there what we're looking to do is try and put in a residential back in there uh which would tuck it in behind the pickle ball court and make this portion part of the campground as well. We have no future plans whatsoever to put any type of camping in there. We're strictly using this for a residence and privacy for that general manager who would happen to be there.

So, it wasn't clear to me on your drawing where you were expecting to draw that line line between the M1 and the U. Well, we were thinking right down the center of Lang Boulevard. You know, it's just a dimension line portion which I believe is just over seven acres. If you divide it down the center there, that puts your maintenance shop on that property. Want to resell it. Correct. Correct. Maintenance shop is already currently there. That's why we want to reszone that here. Yeah. Is is there any issue with the waterline easement? on partially on M1 and then going over onto your resial

is just for location and service. Obviously, anything they do can't obstruct or you know build, you know, build overhead at fill the gate, you know. Sure. Just its existence there doesn't really, you know, impede the the action of zoning or the sure splits. I I remember when you did the maintenance thing, we had some issue when that went in, but I can't remember what the issue was. You're the secretary. Look back at your notes. I just got the job tonight. I mean, the only thing I'm a little concerned with is now we're building a residence in an M property in North Business District. We're trying to So, but so if they

kind of get away from that, right? So, campgrounds are allowed to have as as an accessory structure a caretaker's home. Okay. So if they split, merge, merge it to the campground, obtain the zoning that the campground can be, that can validate a Okay. caretaker's residence. Gotcha. In conjunction with the campground. Okay. I think that's that's the best way to look at it. Y you've got a lot of property in that parcel. I can't believe you're just going to leave it undisturbed in the section that we're going to Yes. redo. Well, part of that there's a feeder stream that comes down through there. I was going to say there's wetlands. There's another

Yeah, there's a little bit of wetlands there and there is some flooding issues there. Okay. Uh because a lot of times when the when the feeder stream that runs through the bottom of the campground comes off of Fantasy Island, goes through the campground and right behind or actually crosses Grand Island right near the go-kart track there. Uh actually the feeder stream runs right through here and runs right along the back and crosses right here. Yeah,

whenever this blocks up due to whatever the debris may be, bull rushes or whatever was whatever growth is in there, everything backs up into this portion of the property and we have a tendency to get some flooding right in this area here. So, we have no plans to put any type of cabin or tent structures or anything in there, at least in a three-year plan that I saw last week. Mhm. Okay. be solely dispute a caretaker's house. It wouldn't be allowed.

Correct. I mean, the main goal here is to put a caretaker's house in. Um KOA is now requiring all general managers to stay on the property year round. Uh which was not something that we did in the past. Uh but now they're requiring the general manager to remain on property which now is causing us to put general manager's quarters in on all of our company owned properties. Sir, are you the general manager? No, sir. I am a project manager for corporate owned properties out of KOA. Okay. Uh I work out of Billings, Montana. Is KOA the owner of that property? Yes. Campgrounds of America is the owner of the property.

Okay. We purchased the 410 Lang property back in I believe it was 2019. Right. That was the time that the maintenance facility. Yeah. Then we put the maintenance actually I was the one in charge of that project as well. So how do they how what's the access from the maintenance to the campgrounds right now? Is there I see a little card path path right there. Yeah. Okay. Oh, I see. right there to the maintenance building and then you would go over to like we're working down on the south side. We can just caretakers that want us to put back here. Thank you. Able to get into and go wherever

and the they're going to use the same entrance for a vehicle. They're going to use the same entrance as we're using now for the maintenance shop. And then what we're planning what we were thinking of doing this is the entrance off the wang for the maintenance shop. So, what we were thinking of doing is just extending that, wrapping it around the corner, and then putting residents back here so she could access from Wang with her vehicle or with her golf cart going back and forth to the main office building. Okay. Is that a single story? Oh, yeah. Yes. We have this gentleman's name for the minutes.

My name is Gary Keller. just trying to help you out.

Yes. Going forward, this is just once again the reszone and then the um guess you could address the split. It really isn't as he said he's thinking about being the center of the culdeac but um the house itself would end up under a site plan application to this board at a future date. just basically looking at the reszone and I guess we'll call the splitting of the parcel doesn't really have a a drawing but he's described it down the center line of our we did have a drawing that's right here we have both

I got I got the drawing so much there I'm sorry motion. Anyone? I move we uh approve the reasonzoning uh and the uh and and the uh split uh property split as shown on their drawing A2 dated 313 2026. Second. Okay. Second, Greg. Any further discussion?

Is um the action going to be then to also predicating the merger to of that east parcel then to the campground? Yes. I'm just for your guys. Can I add that to your motion, Dave? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And then the the the reszone and merge. Yes. to campground to KOA campground. Any further discussion? All in favor? I. You're all set, sir. Thank you for coming very much. Good luck.

Okay. Number four, special use permit. I think special use permit for Colonial Drive. Anybody here? move the table at them. Maybe we get some then we need right for Craig second. I was going to say is it disruptive enough on what they said though? I think it's not how we usually stuff. I think I just be here. Thank you.

I'll second that. Craig second chen. Any further discussion? All in favor? I was it possible for is it possible for to get a hold of the applicants that were tableing here to tell them that they got to come to the next meeting or do you guys still telling them that when they file? Let me tell them that. Okay. I don't know that emailed everyone individually. No, I don't know if she did. I don't believe she did.

The first thing is I mean since I've been on the board, it's been discussion with the representative. Yeah, we always said that they weren't here. Especially for for not just We're going to number five and that's up guys. here. I help you all right.

Yeah, I know. Okay, last meeting talked a lot about this. Um, our big concern was parking in the front yard setback. We kind of figured the setback was around here. Yeah, the center of the roof is 100 ft. It's so you had all this parking. Yeah, it was just a right draft more. You might have to slide things back. Yeah. To accomplish that. Yep.

And the other question that I thought was brought up is we we couldn't seem to understand tiny homes slashcamping. Yeah. There's like luxury tiny homes and then we it'll be 400 square feet. They'll have kitchens, living room. But it's a campground. Well, it's like a boutique at time. Um, it's similar to there's like one in Elicaville called Tiny Home Base Camp. It's not necessarily a formal campground. It's more so a tiny home village where there's smaller structures, people can come and short-term rentals and then in the wintertime use it as a more of like a Christmas shopping village.

Where where is 1834 White Haven? It's in the central business district. Uh, it's just down right next to the red house. It's in between the highway right across from area new bank facility. Does the pond exist? No, not at this time. It's Kan's old house. Just the house up front, I think, is there. Yeah, right. And it doesn't look like that. It's No, there's a little halfaxed garage in the back. Yeah, right there. You got it. Excellent.

Well, Casey, well, what if he's going to have short-term rentals? What is the zoning? We already went through. I mean, is that allowed on this? A campground is allowed. Yeah, but he's saying he's saying it's not a campground. Family units we don't know how to exactly classify it because it's that smaller similar to like structure. like a glamping not a camping

a luxurious campground if that makes sense. So I guess the question that we kind of before is like I I think what we were kind of defining is the stay. Will there be long extended stays? Like could someone stay in here for a month or the summer or or this will be more of a it's like we can you know like we figure with the banquet facility across the

street there will be wedding venue you know people that want to come and rent the whole facility for the you know for the wedding or We get I get where you're going with that. I think that was what our conversation was is just this because the design and I think it's kind of cool about say that's right or wrong but um the idea of it being permanent small structures that eventually turn into right you you're from the island and you know how that goes. So it's not this turning into a long term. Yes. And that that was the that's the bound. We're trying to find big figure too. And no, we strictly want,

you know, short-term rentals. You know, that's where the revenue is. It's not in a renting a 400 foot house for a month at a or 6 months at a time or, you know, we wanted to turn it into a Christmas village for vendors at Christmas. So, everyone can come. So, 400 square feet. Would it be just one bedroom? One bedroom and then a loft. So for live with a mattress or something, you know, just like a crawl space and then a kitchen, full kitchen, full living room. So like a higher end KOA cabin, right? Yes. So now we're back to a campground. Higher end KOA cabin, but they call it glamping, you know, like

the campground with permanent structure. Well, KOA has What's the foundation? Do you think there'll be a a cement a cement slab? Your picture shows 10 of these, but your description says 14, which is Well, it all depends on how many we can fit in there. We haven't This is all just preliminary. What about the existing house that's going to come down and get rebuilt or we want to turn into a baked bakery? House would say, remodeled.

Yep. And it wouldn't be like a where they cook. We would probably look to a lot of the island people that are doing their little uh stands out front to supply it with baked goods and maybe have a satellite from um deamilos have them bring in some stuff. And so when do we talk about with seating in the bakery inside the cafe?

There might be a little you know and maybe some outdoor deter according to our code. So if you have something like that that has seating like a restaurant you have to have. so many parking spots for that. All the co it's all different. So that's why another reason why we're asking if you're going to have seating in there because it requires Yeah. There's not a lot of room for something like that. I mean you maybe two or three tables could fit in there. We're we're looking to you know also have items available for the people that are staying replace number of parking that might be required. Right. There was a lot of discussion last time on parking. Yeah.

Casey, what would the little houses be at the little campground houses? One car per building, 400 square foot building, bedroom. Not really. Well, yes, but no.

I don't have my parking me. probably consider it along the lines of a hotel at that point for parking purposes. Okay, just to get an idea, one spot per Let me look it up real quick. I think one of the bigger issues is going to be fire department access to the most remote um units. Yeah. Depending on how far back it is, you're going to have to have a road. Yeah. To get access. Yep. Well, there's access through the VFW. This property backs right up to the VFW driveway, but they can drive it.

But I I have spoken with the fire department and the guys that work for it, and they said they had no issue reaching reaching. Yeah. How would they do that? Yeah. One space. So that's 14. And and then if he only has three tables, 12 people, that's two. That's two more. That's 16. And then employees at least two. That's 18 spots. Yeah. And we don't have to turn it into a bakery. We could turn it into an Airbnb. No, we're just

Well, that's only going to reduce it by two spots. We right now you're showing roughly 10 like maybe a dozen spots cuz you're going to lose all this cuz we can't have parking in the front yard. But there is room behind the house that we turn into parking right back here. Yeah. And then who who mentioned uh the road? I mean maybe the pond and the stream should be a road then they could park right in front of the units. What is that? Storm water. Yeah, that's what storm water. Well, they'd have to figure that out.

Well, I guess Yeah, we'd have to see. Doesn't that feed something in? Yeah, that' be a building. Yeah. Well, how like if the back unit caught on fire, how they getting back there? You can't be going through somebody else's property unless you have an easement. Unless you have a license or an easement to use that property to get to circus. It can't just be your feet. They don't have to get right. Yeah. This is not I mean you're we're not we're starting at least 150 ft back. So you only got 250 ft left.

Yeah. Surely any pirates, you know, on that path. I would think that the fire department would want to drive at least halfway back. There's got to be some formula. When he does a site plan, he's going to have to address that. What about the cabin at the KOA? Is there Is there a hydrant back there? I don't know where the hydrants are, but I mean, there's definitely Yeah. Right.

So 50 ft would be the closest thing to get. So from the parking lot 150 ft from the parking lot if it's within that range that would be plenty close enough. I mean, you got to figure I mean, you got all this back here and all that. I mean, this is only going to here, but you figure if there's a fire department or fire that's fire hydrant that's accessing, you know, when you look at the scale on the map, the way this

for a hydrant, it's like 600 ft because they can run hose from there's a fire hydrant right on property, right? actually where that and directly in front where that left green dot is in is the fire hydrant right about right there. So I I think at this point we're more concerned with your parking obviously fire and and calling it what it is. It's really a campground. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's not hard to change. Right. That's I believe if we had an overall site map so we could vision that

I see where you're going with this though. You're trying to get some feedback and some feel out as to what our concerns and where we're looking at. So yeah, Casey, how much parking does it does he need if I'm just going in there and picking up a donut? A donut and I'm leaving. I'm not having any tables. just a couple employees or no there's a for like standing room only waiting room there would need to be parking spaces for those people as well I think parking is where you're going to come into the hurdles for the design so I think um I didn't bring my parking formula

yeah with you look through that and the we have a design standards uh performance standards and what and code but there in both of those it'll tell you what the parking what's required for certain things. I think he's going to be back behind a building. So, the pond might have to be either shrunk or Yeah. eliminated. But I think that's what we're all looking at is according to code and now because it's a campground and figuring out I mean we're not it's a little we're not supposed to be figuring out your actual parking. Right. Right. But supposed to give you an idea.

Right. But but having the conversation because I think that's why you're here to get some feedback that you know that some of the things that we see coming out of this. I mean I think it's a I think it's what is a neat idea. We just never seen anything like this. So we're kind probably questioning the same things that you guys are questioning. Yeah. Um so but our the biggest concern this board has had been the parking. where you're going to put the parking and what we need to doing our part as to what we have to hold you guys accountable for in the parking situation. Now we we are trying to by the house next door. Yeah. Okay.

So you you show a pond in a in a stream. I mean does that connect with anything? No, it's just going to it's going to be a fabricated, you know, like a landscape pond that you see at an earthly or something or any campground little stream going and there's a pump and it just recirculates the water type of thing just for looks. Yeah. From last time, it's like a landscape. So, the parking press and it's one space for every 150 square feet of waiting room area. So he could have so he's going to roughly need three if he just does waiting room only and keeps that down to the

15 have a couple employees. So there's three there and this year shows 10 of the buildings 13 gets too far into it. You might want to wait on the state road isn't it county county might want to have to look into same thing chief has ran into curb cuts. Yeah, but how they allow curb cuts? Why don't you do a study and traffic studies aren't cheap? No, there are two curb cuts there currently. So, there's one on the lefthand side for the driveway for the house. There's a second curb and fold basically for that. There's an apron for the driveway and a curb cut for that lawn mower. There used to be a driveway that's on the from this angle right hand side of the house.

There's two driveways. Yes. One of them. There is curb cuts. All of them are recalled. Yes. Bob Whitney still need approval from county maybe county for the entrances

it's gonna well I will say this they are going to be it's subject to secure once we get moving on this thing um they are going to be an involved agency coordinated with it so they may comment then on permits review approvals okay concepts um it may be in your best interest maybe to reach out to them in advance go down too far of a rabbit hole. I've seen them take away existing driveways going it, you know, not necessary, doesn't work, don't want. I've seen them decline adding in additional ones. So, it's it's definitely a dialogue. I think you need to um reach out to them in advance. Right.

I notice you show sidewalks in your picture here. There's none there currently, correct? No, there's no. So, this I mean this will be sidewalks to nowhere once again. What? Well, you mean out front. Out front. Gota start somewhere. It's making a point to say the first one. Okay. Okay. But that would be a requirement. Yep. Would be a store district. It's development. It's a new build. So, it would be subject to having sidewalk in one or two. The distance between these units. Um what kind of

requirement is going to be is it going to be like a campground then? Um but per structure 10 feet just 10 feet between

that's what I'm saying something we tried to talk about last time tiny homes that's going to be a whole another set of code scale it's a campground it's something different that's the conversation I think we had considering it a home campus what really I mean, it's a cool idea. Got ton of them. You saying 14, right? Those are 20 by 20. You got a front porch. I wanted to do the same thing in there 40 years ago. Same thing. They came in just looking for somebody tiny home base camp. It's a campground. It's just, you know,

does this is this how you foresee the design of these tiny the campground and the house like or is this for like a visual? Yeah, it's just a Yeah, I think too like looking at the the the board's looking at the porch and how many like all of that, but you're trying to give us a visual of how you see the setting up, but not actually the architectural design. You're not a site plan. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Yeah, I think like uh Bob from engineering said that you should check on that curb cut before you start dumping a lot of money in this thing to see because there you might have to res redesign your own parking lot. Right. That that's going to drive, you know, if you can only come in one one and they're going to kill the other one, then you're going to have to be able to get around.

Right. So, I would say like I agree what Bob says, that should be your first your first check in. And then with us, we're more concerned with the camp name. We'll call it whatever you like. You are you want to expand the existing house that's there? No. No. It doesn't look like obviously obvious requirements for the bakery part. So that's going to drive what you're going to do there. Yes, that's right. I thought they might

see anyone staying here full-time or this will be like a daytime business operation in the back. It's a great idea. Great concept. Something on premises all the time. No, no. A lot of them are doing a kiosk thing. Yeah. It'll all be digital electronic locks and basically send a code. Send a code. Yeah. So, they're not going to really be there. And I think Bob brought that up last meeting at the one place on the boulevard. The one campground was all kiosk and there's nobody there. It doesn't need to be there. Yeah. You got any other questions for us? No, not at this time. Start. Thank you. Thanks for coming in, guys. It's a cool idea. That's for sure.

How much parking and then build up from there. I I think that's going to be your biggest turning is going to be your two biggest. I mean, we can always reduce how many homes or Yeah. You know, it's just whatever can fit into the plan. just somebody else had that spent some money was dying work in the county turned it down the way they wanted it. So I' look into that. It's not been easy. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thanks guys. All right. Thank you. Wish you luck. Okay. Communications. I'm just going to say re received and filed, but we didn't really get anything.

I disagree. things I told you at just we didn't receive anything. So what did you get? Those two things I've discussed with you about bringing that was from zoning board and from Long sounds good. It's not on our agenda but well I'm just saying our what's on our agenda. We don't even have that. So what do we want just not approving it? Is there any motion we can make to encourage the town board to get us some secretarial help? Time's working.

Just wondering if there's some something we can collectively say today. Okay. All right. Uh Jen had a couple of things that she wanted to mention briefly. Now, we haven't seen these yet.

Nope. So, um, the first one I'm going to hand out, um, Dave and I sit on the zoning, um, reform. We're redoing the zoning code book. We've been working on it for a couple months and whatnot. Well, a couple months. It's like a year now, but one of the things that's of foresight is going through the site plan review section, and we're not quite to it yet. Um, but we had suggested that maybe this could be something that we could hand off to the planning board since you guys are were the ones that look at this. And for some of our the newer board, including myself, sitting on this board, um that maybe a refresher, a relook, and to see if there's things where um you guys have been around a little longer, um that you guys could see some things that maybe are hits and misses in here or anything you could see. Um it's no big rush, but I thought that making this an under, you know, under the fire, let's get it done in 30 days thing that I would I um we suggested that maybe we could bring it here now and you guys we could just start pounding it around and uh so when this section comes up in that committee, we will already have feedback from here and we can move forward on that.

So so currently what we've got done so far there is we went through all the special use applications and uh Rhonda from zoning and Ron Mils from building sat in and we went through we're trying to get rid of the people coming back for like noco every year they got to come back for you know to make that an allowable use. So we went through all that and that part of it done. Now, whether or not we're going to try to ship that off to the town board and peacemeal this thing instead of waiting, I mean, it's been longer than a year.

Yeah, there's been some code changes like some discussions we've had with the center center of town taking away the central north um district and and making those more business. We've been looking at the M1, M2s, um re relooking at our zoning map. nothing that's of substantial change, but it's more of an organizational and and trying to um make the the zoning um clear and and since the the code book has had a lot of amendments to it throughout the years, some things you look at don't cross cross reference in one other spot or other things that we feel that should maybe be upfront in the code book book that are buried more that should be right at, you when you're looking at these sections and they had a lot of um in the beginning they you know we did a lot of the stakeholders I know that the planner that we have went in and talked to engineering and building to get to get all their insights on things that they would like us to look at and whatnot. Um, and it's it's going

so currently in the book if you pull up say M1 just this is a crazy example. Here's what you can do. But then there there's another section that might say the setbacks. We're trying to put everything. So when you pull up M1, it's all there instead of going this part of the book and over there. So that's something that but as of now we've got the special uniformit thing knocked out. I don't foresee anything knocked out. I mean

well we we went through it all made all our recommendations went through it with building and zoning now whether or not we're going to try to bifurcate this stuff and send that to the town board to get that approved first and we're going to keep going. But there would still be circumstances where special permit required. Yes. So what what it is norm is it's a big list and then there's like all your your headings across where the special use would be. Yeah. You don't breakfast. You don't need it every year, right? We're trying to get away from that. Like the gas stations make them an allowable use

like that. There's no reason that a gas station ever needed to be subject to a special use permit. At least not in the north central southern business districts. It's where they belong. And certainly if they have a convenience store gas station without them nowadays,

but adding mixed use into into the zoning code, adding some things, you know, some situations that we've seen also, you know, getting away from residential properties being zoned in the center dead center of town and things like that. I mean, I could there's probably a list of like a 200 things that we've been cross referencing and trying to look at, but we're coming to a point where it there's going to be a section that's going to be pretty substantial section that's going to be given over to the town board. And as we were getting towards the ends, this came up and Dave and I said, "Why don't we preemptively give this to the planning board since they work with this?" And there may be no changes, there may be nothing, but figured it's an opportunity and instead of slowing the process down um that we would bring this now and see if there's any comments

with this. I mean, you want to review this at next meeting or um I I it's up to you guys if you feel there's like a bunch in there. Um, I'm my the suggestion we had was to give this to the planning board and see if they see if there's anything that they feel needs to be addressed as we're going forward. If it's a few items, I think it's just something that you can give feedback for it at the next meeting. Is this the current Jen? Yes, that's current. Yes, that's the current. I think it's a great idea, but I'd like to have a chance to study it and come back next or next month with Yeah, it can even be it can be two months. It doesn't

maybe even next month and maybe some more the following month. There's no deadline. I didn't want to have a deadline on this. So, the thought was getting this preemptively so we could wrap our your heads or Yeah. Otherwise, there we would be making our thing and then it would come to us and we'd have to answer it, right? So, we're trying to get it out of the eightball. So, you going to put this on unfinished business then going forward? It's up to We We can Yeah, we could put it on the end. I think it would be We could do that so it doesn't get lost. I think that would be a great idea. Okay. Really good. if you guys don't mind doing that. I just think it'll get ahead us ahead of the game. What was your second one?

And the second one is is um councilwoman deal. I don't know if you guys remember when we were doing design standards um the we did read the the long range committee. This is with the long range board. Um they redid the design standards I want to say about two years ago just for commercial and councilwoman Deal brought up in the long range meeting um that I sit on pretty for Dave sits on that board for planning the um in the procedure section. I didn't print out the whole thing, but it's just the the the bottom part where it says procedure and it goes into the second page. And what was included in there is um the town board has been working on coming up with procedures and plans as to how advisory boards should conduct how they get a chance to review things and in a timely manner and getting them back to the town board and basically the communication. So a lot of the the planning board's different but a lot of the advisory boards have already gone through that with new policies, procedures and refreshers as to how advisory boards um have it how they should communicate with the town board and the departments that they need to the timely manner in which they should get that done and how to give that feedback. that goes in conjunction with when this originally was these commercial design standards as you see a procedure there were some triggers that were put in here as to when projects should be given to all the advisory boards so that they initially have a 30-day review uh at from their chairman as to say hey the traffic safety advisory board wants to say something about this or oh we're good this looks great or conservation

are historic. And the idea behind that was that often the conversations where things come to the planning board or they get to the town board and there's times where the town board would say, "Oh, but this has to go back to traffic and safety." And it would be kind of a roundroin and it would also cause problems with the departments and then it would be like you know 90 days later an advisory board pops up and says well we didn't see this and now they want to have input even though you know these are business plans and whatnot that need to move there are certain as we know 30 days 31 days around things that once their their application gets in that they need to have some kind of decision. So the in I'm making this longer but in short it was between councilwoman Deal and and the whole the whole town board has been has been working on this is trying to streamline some of this and make it so that there's there's set policy and set triggers that set in line as to when things need to go all the way in these commercial properties have to be set to the advisory boards where they have 30 days to respond and say, "Yeah, we would like to say something or here's our comments so that things work in more of an efficient and collaborative and acceptable manner." And the procedures, the triggers that were mentioned down there as some of the ideas that were put in place two years ago as to these are the triggers that go into place when these projects need to be sent to the advisory boards to review. And you'll see it's things like more than 10 acres, um certain commercial properties that are over 5,000 um square feet. So, the long range board is looking for feedback from all the advisory boards this month or whatnot as to if each individual

board sees where they stand on the board. I know we're different, but where they see they need to add certain triggers in here or the triggers that are already in here need to be modified. So historically, if something came to us for a site plan, we would approve it and then the next meeting or the meeting after that, we would get something from traffic and safety and says, "Hey, we have these concerns." And we're like, "Well, we already approved it." Well, yeah. And that's my point here. I mean, this is quick read of this is saying that they have to go through and give us their recommendations before we even see it, right? That's what they're trying to do. So that can that happen? I mean, logistically,

well, they don't have to necessarily. So, the the the spirit behind it is that um I'm going to pick something like the historical board who very seldomly has a lot or whatever to see, but let's say something like the Rison where there was a historical thing on there. It's something that they never saw. So, it was trying to not pick and choose as to what boards these go through, but to just have it go out to all the advisory boards and the historical board might say, "Oh, there's something that's on that property that nobody knows about, but it gives them a chance to give input." Now, there's been a lot of

timeline on that. That's exactly. There's been a lot of conversation as to that 30-day window because there's certain boards like conservation that actually meet, you know, the day after on certain things. Some things come in last minute and whatnot. And that is still very much up for debate um as to what that timeline is. How many boards you got? 30 days. It could take you two years.

Yes. So, it's we're there the conversation keeps going around as to but where is that number? Because right now people are coming in late or people are not seeing it and really, you know, we're advisory boards that are supposed to be helping, but yet we all put a lot of time and effort into doing these things and to make sure that what we've spent time on doing is reflected and it gets carried through where it's supposed to. So the timeline I think will be adjusted and I think the timeline for right now and it isn't long range and on long range someone from every board sits on there has been up for discussion and that's why it's bringing this up. When this was originally passed the long range board knew that this wouldn't be the the fit, but it was something to start seeing if we could get some of these procedures to start working or see where these triggers would come

from. I guess we'll see in the perfect world when you make a site plan application before we even get it should go to all your advisory boards and that take a month they've all got to respond and then the following month we would get it and then we would have all that would add up that's never going to happen for final like that system works in municipalities where the planning board is ultimately the the authority that gets to approve or deny the application, right? The problem here is to to expect an applicant to sit through a two to three month, right?

For I mean for most things, for some stuff that's obviously warranted, but to have every application to that type of a waiting period. This is right. And that's what that's what the triggers are trying to find. Like every single thing doesn't need to come through here. But something like a major large development or something like an Aldi's like Aldi's is the example that they we talk about frequently is the way that kind of the process worked. There was a get nothing but time with Aldi. Yeah. But when they initially came in they had uh they had a presentation and a meeting and all the boards had a chance right away to kind of chime in and something. The feedback was given. It ended up coming to the planning board. We had mentioned a couple things. Everything went through. It was like

somewhat of the process you can utilize information meetings on large scale projects and we still will do those we haven't had a right a significant large scale project to go okay bring in all the groups and set I mean you know so that's that tool still exists in the toolbox it just hasn't been needed right in the recent past with the smaller things that are happen you know you're not gonna you know the guy that you know came in today for the

yeah no and I think that's And that's where the triggers and that's where it's not the micromanaging. It's when these larger things come in and there needs to be a little bit more the spirit of trying to do this from the long range. I'm not just talking on what I think but from that whole board is to trying to have some kind of triggers on these bigger projects and where are those triggers. Is it you know is it 10 acres? Is it 5,000 10,000 square feet properties? Is it and that's what the procedure part of those I think it's uh something to consider too is the planning board is stage it all through your code book all the other advisory boards are not conservation there's conservation in there yeah they might

keep things rolling so if somebody wants to come in here and do something I'm not going over there because they're going to take 10 months yeah right and and and that's the problem it's been a problem it's a phone book but they're all you guys are also the only ones who have kind of defined window with respect to when you're to give an approval or is deemed an automatic approval which creates a massive problem with respect to the way the law is written and trying to implement something like that, right?

But I understand that this that's what this is doing. This is going to trigger that to get them to look at it quickly. That's the that's the spirit still might not work well. I mean I mean the reality is if somebody walks in the day after this meeting with a sipline application and finds a way to get to all the other advisory board meeting or you know and that feedback gets to you guys no matter which way you cut it. It's going to be

the better part of two months before you guys have it's the same. The thing is is the town board's always so keep in mind the town board is the ultimate aside from the ZDA. The only the only approval board is the town board. The others are advisory. Now the town board is the one that needs to receive the comments. Now, should the town board find the comment substantial and they have example maybe there's a traffic comment that didn't make it to the planning board, the town board could receive and send it back to the planning board with the traffic board's comments because you know something this is and that's where the town board has to be the gatekeeper, the deciding decider to it. It that really becomes what you know and I know the planning board wants fingers into this stuff. It it is a tremendously

that's why they're there. But it's you know that's the thing is that ultimately the town board is to shuffle the information together to make the decision. If they want advice they can always refer back to another board plain and simply to get that input again. You know, hey, you didn't see this piece. Send it back to you guys. Right. So I just met an architect. we're doing a a project and I'm involved in the drawings and we were yakking about you know all the stuff from the different townships. He's like I won't even file in Niagara Falls because they bounce it from this department to that. He says an application takes three four months and then he says and Amherst isn't far behind as someone who deals with bouncing it around

as someone who deals with your fault is because they they have turnover daily. Right. Right. But I I see a flowchart here, John. That's exactly what learner, you know, a flowchart with a calendar on the side gives time frames and a a applicant can look at that flowchart and know precisely what he or she needs to do. The reality is I think it should be most seline applications. There's no reason that every time a site plan application comes in, the site plan application can't go to every advisory board and they can have an opportunity to give their feedback to the town board. Even if it is just, you know what,

CAB has no comments on this one. Great. And you know, there may be a time where sitting even for a minor project, something might come back from one of those boards where I sit there at the town board and say, "Boy, I don't know what the hell's going on with this. Maybe we ought to send it back to the planning board. let them comment on this because you guys have far more experience in dealing with this stuff than we do. So, but we've seen it before where you guys have gotten the push that well they didn't they didn't do anything so it's deemed an automatic approval. You guys were waiting for input from either other advisory boards or I think there's been a couple of times where it's been well you guys wanted us to hold the public hearing so you guys could

hear what the public had to say about something and listen to that and use that in your recommendations to us. So bear in mind the town board also has the power to call its own public hearing. That's listed in your laws. They do, but at the same time that comes for public I remember Starzinski used to do that. still sheriff needed to

there's a lot of there's a lot of things that are um I don't obviously not a town board member but I know there's a lot of things that the town board's been discussing and there's been a lot of flowchart policy procedure I don't know where they're going but the ask from they're trying to button some things up on and whatever they do they do but on the on the long range aspect of this this was brought to us to ask if we If if this could go back from long range, which each of us sit on different boards, to bring it to the boards that you sit on, and ask if each board could look at the procedures and see those triggers if they think it should be bigger or smaller or anything else you see and then it will be up for further conversation. And this isn't a final that's going to go to the town board, but just to get some feedback and see what all the boards think. And I know we play a little different.

Do we also list this on unfinished business then? I just John and Tom for both of you. I would also encourage then you find there used to be a flowchart that went out with the pipeline packets. It's pinned on the wall and the engineering office but okay I would suggest you take a look at that too because that was put together for a purpose used to be in the handout packets that went explained a number of the steps. Who was it that worked on the checklist the updated checklist for the site plan? Was it it was Sandy? Was it Sandy? Ben and Tim and myself. Okay. Yeah, when we did the checklist. Yes. So that may need to beated to include

copy of that checklist. Well, the checklist is the checklist is our application. Yeah. Our checklist is one of your application flowchart. Sorry. Flowchart. Now, one quick question Warren brought up about this about the solar or the battery thing. Both. Should we add that back as unfinished business or what? Well, I was expecting to come here this meeting and review that. I think they're done with that and attorney and going to the Tom Blending this.

No, that's on me. It's the So, public hearing is May 18. I don't anticipate us acting on it. I'll send that to you right now for both of them. No, no, just the battery sort. We really haven't even started to go through and refine solar solar. So, is the are you going to have public hearing and then send it back to us or send it to

Yeah. But for for next meeting, are we going to have the the best law for next meeting? I'm getting that. So this is the exact question that the long range is talking about because everyone it's a confusion as to where and when and how and this is exactly an example as to I'm not blaming it on anyone. I'm just saying there's two sides. One is it's already the town board could act like it is what it is. We had that meeting with the purpose of of not going back and forth six times with all. That said, I'll send it to you guys. I want to make sure that I that's on me.

Even the town board didn't have a second. So, I'll make before you guys get an meaning to go provide some comments on the on battery. They're in the minutes on both of them. Yeah. The best law. The best law. We had that meeting. Then we had the joint meeting with the attorney. The attorney since drafted it. And what I didn't do was send you guys the draft. Okay. Which I, you know, frankly, at this point, I don't even know that he's supposed to. She didn't. Okay. So, I'm just going to add that to our as unfinished business at this point. I mean,

so the question is though, if it goes to public hearing, um, Mr. Datti, if we have we go read through this in 30 days and come back to this planning board with comments, will those comments be useful or do you plan on moving that law forward? I just said I might have not yet approved okay on Monday because I forgot I intended to get it to you before this meeting so you would have opportunity. I I'm sorry. I I maybe didn't hear.

I apologize. I'm only one vote, but I'd like to think that when I tell them, hey guys, the planning board wanted to take another look at this and unfortunately I didn't get it to them, so they couldn't that they'll not move on. Maybe I'm wrong, but okay, I will do what I can. We appreciate this. And now public hearing will be prior to our next meeting. Yeah, it's going to be this coming Monday. Okay. So at least next meeting we'll also hear what the public had to say. We'll have the draft. We'll have the and what the public said public said and our old comments, right? How many applicants are out there at this point for best?

There's two or three floating around. The one keeps comment the one last meeting. You know they want the setbacks reduced to like I think it's like 10 feet or something exceptionally silly. That was the Carlson one. I think just kind of chuckled when I when they said that. If anything, I'm inclined to to go the other way with them. Well, wasn't there some facilities uh Tom that were coming in that were going to give the town 80 grand a year or something? That's or is that something else?

It's that's separate. There were uh we have been approached about people playing battery storage facilities on town property. Oh, okay. Okay. So, that's a whole another whole another ball. Okay. Anybody have anything else? Just that I think we should be building that law around our town and specific projects. I'm saying that out loud. I don't I don't think we are around specific projects. I mean, they both there's been a lot of developer and I'm a little uncomfortable meetings ago. So, yeah, you know, they were doing their own horn, but

I just don't want to Yeah. shouldn't be about any spec one specific project and we've already had that mess. That's what I'm trying to avoid. Motion to adjurnn. Motion's second.

Any further discussion? All in favor?