Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, we're gonna go to like to call the planning board meeting to order. Um we're going to move right into um right into number one, which is this bed and breakfast on East River 4184 East River Road. If I'm understanding this, if I drove by right, they're going to pull in off of Kirkwood and their parking is right there. And then she looks like her, her hands are Mr. and Mrs. Looks like they xed out a spot for a parking spot. So they didn't

Is it usual for them to go to the zoning board for a variant before it comes to the planning board? Yeah. Well, technically the planning board would have to reject it because your job is to conform with those. So they would go to ZBA or you could condition an approval. It can happen either way. But thank you. Must have had to do with the parking, huh Casey? That they had to go to the ZBA. Yeah, they space not located. Yeah, the front piece. Yep. Well, they went to the ZBA. They got approval.

They got a variance for the parking. So, they don't have to park on the street, which is usually required once. That's an area variance. Anybody have any questions? What's I mean, is that parking is it totally on their property? Can't tell from where I looked at the picture the it's it's like almost like a triple wide um I looked on maps. Triple wide driveway. Real big. It's like the whole side of Kirkwood is all a driveway. Okay. I drove by too. Yeah. So there's plenty of room. Yeah. Set back. That's all right. No, it's not on their property.

It's on the driveway. It's just hanging off their actual property basically the town's property for the street and the ZVA granted approval to not have to have a parking space on the property. So they're providing one that's basically on the town's properties. Oh, it's on the right. Yeah. That's the property line. Well, it's in the driveway, right? It's correct. Well, but we have a Keep in mind the code says not in the front yard. If the house is at front setback,

then you know that's why I'm looking from the memo. It says that it was outside yard correct. So that's so they got a variance because they could to get it outside but that variance doesn't set. Yeah. Yes. for the variances for not having a parking space on the property based at all. That's been passed. So yeah, that's I that's no argument made at that point now. I guess I mean I'm not crazy about that but yeah sticking gave it to them so they're they can they can pass law.

Is there going to be somebody inside the property? I'm assuming but just for the sake of saying someone has to live on the property. So, it's one bedroom. If that's the case, um motion to approve. They all have to live there. Yeah. I'm just saying we usually have as a bed and breakfast. It's owner occupied. Yeah. We usually have an the applicants for all the bed and breakfastes. So, I'm just saying it out loud that it needs to be owner occupied or something. Okay. So, you made the motion to approve. Any further discussion? They have chickens there. So, pretty much live there. All in fa All in favor? I Everyone's in favor. Okay, that's that one.

Now, the next one is the little campground. I'm sorry. Who second? Who second? For the record office. Norm. Norm second. Jen made the motion. Norm second. All in favor? Everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Campground. Now the campground is this just for discussion? Yes. Yes. Discussion only. Not approval. Yeah. No action.

Okay. So the only thing that I noticed is that we're going to have this walking area, but it's going to be pravel walkways. I don't even think that's Yeah, that's what I picked up on, too. PC. That's not allowed, is it? There's no you have to have a parking and you have to have a way to park these two. I guess that's what she has. As far as a campground, it's pretty standard to have gravel alert. You're getting your luggage back to those houses on pravel. Well, it's a campground. It's a campground. So, I haven't question the zoning, right? So, the zoning is

Yeah. most of our we talked about. So he talked about foundations. So this seems like these are going to be permanent buildings um and more of a modular Yeah. tiny homes. Yeah. Um thing. Now I know we just talked about that in zoning. What Mr. Bruno. Um, so it seems like those are going to be modular homes back there. And I don't know where this would fall into that or if this would be a campground where it would fall into the code that way or exactly how this would fit into the zoning that's there and what or whatnot. Maybe Casey a little insight on where I'm going with that a little. They have those.

Yeah. I just didn't know. And we hadn't treated as those a campground. So you just treat it as if it's like the same that that zoning actually a classification on the recreational park trail that kind of where I'm looking to see where this should be. You know, do they need to reszone or are they suffice on where they're at? Um whether you call it residential or campground, it's all allowed in the central business district. Okay. So you don't have any problem with that aspect of it. Okay. So no, it's a cool idea. Is there a parking issue because of the square footage of total square footage

because of all the buildings, Casey? I mean, the one wouldn't have much like only what 16 spots 10 cabins, I think he said. Um, 10 spaces total include two ADA. We should mark it on there for you. But the record spots be determined by how many seats there are in the cafe. I would. Yeah. And square if that goes in with the square footage back there. So I would assume there's probably I see 14. I'm just reading off of this part what he wrote. Yeah, I'm seeing 14 though. 14

spots. So, two under one under each tree. They're under the trees. Yeah. But now, would that be in front yard set back? It would. Yeah, it would. It would. So, we don't really know. So, we don't know what the bakery looks like, how many space that'll need. Well, is that based upon just a square footage of that? Well, depends. If it's if it's a just an open area where people stand, it would be based on square footage. But if they have seating like tables, it would be based on the tables, right? One per six seats, right? It's cool.

So, what do you foresee each one of these small homes to require or these rentals? I mean, two parking spots. Yeah. If we took just not counting the b I don't think they have enough parkies. Yeah, I don't think they do either, but I'm trying to figure out what we could advise as what would be necessary for just I read it as one per room. Yeah. Yeah. One one car per building. Yeah. So that's 10, right? And then depends on what the bakery is.

And then some of them are in front yard setback. So that might have to get cut off. Well, I'm going off the front of the building, but it's saying they're all in there. Everything is in there. Yeah. Yeah. So, how does that work, Casey? Is that like I mean, is grandfathered in or No, those spots aren't there. This is a house right now. All they have is driveway. Yeah. So, there's no parking spots there, so nothing will be grandfathered. Is there a garage? Is there one? Yeah. Um I don't think so. Yeah. In his write up, he says that it's 50 that the bakery is 50 feet from the road.

That I'm just mind you going on what he has written here. The existing 30 foot wide home is centered on the lot 50 feet from road. He's shown 50 foot front yard set from here to here. Yeah, I see. Yeah. And it also says start a tiny home village 100t behind the bay house which would suggest that it's like 150 ft. But so can he push the parking back farther? He would have to. Is there a distance from these little tiny buildings, Casey, for a a setback distance between each one? Not for a campground? No. So then he could shove them back farther

and put all the parking behind the the 50 foot line or even behind the building. He would be able to pick up six right there and then add 10 more. Well, I'm Yeah, if you look at where the house is set on this, so I would assume the parking would have to more or less start in the back of the house, right? That would be the front step back line. So, it's 1830. You would have some area. This is what you got right now. This is a something. Yeah. Shed or something. garage. So the

So there's one driveway coming in on the right side of the property. Must be coming into a garage is White Haven. Yep. 100 ft wide.

The scale's on the lower left. Should be it looks like. Well, yeah. The green to green 90. Yeah, it's 100 page. So does does he get some of that Casey in his front yard set back? So it's a special setback 100t from the center of way haven. If 100 then he's got it right has it right. So he needs to push for parking back. Looks like that lot is fairly wooded. No, it's a brush scrub. Nope. Like three trees.

What's here? Um, that's the Lockwood collision. The old Lockwood collision facility. Oh, okay. Okay. Rockwood Police Station. Yep. Yep. Gotcha. Does the parking have to be That's the old boat um shop that was there. Does the parking have to be a certain distance from the side setback? No. Central business. Central business. No. No. Okay. So, the only thing that we're really suggesting is to bring the parking into code. Well, and and discuss if the quantity is right.

Yeah. Right. You got two businesses. they can overlap because uh you know sure if you had something that was strictly night and something that was strictly day you could go okay doesn't you know shared and and balanced but this has potential of co-use and is 16 spots enough with eight for cabins and whatever the bakery requires and what its use is you said you don't have a is there seating areas that drive or change it is it just a walk up you know getting stuff it's just a walk up counter the little tiny in sight space then this might be enough but but you need room for employees. Yeah. And I would think someone overnight probably full time

in the campground. I mean, usually you go to a front crowd, you check in, there's someone now this day and age, there's literally like it all kiosk the Cinderella one, the new addition to Cinder even it is not same entity and they actually have a kiosk reservation and kiosk system that you just here. All right. So, I guess what we're really concerned with is the the required parking spaces and to stay out of the front yard setback. Well, do we need the front yard setback? Is it to is it to the rear of the exist exeoot? He has the size right. I just don't think he drew it right to scale.

Oh, wow. He's got the 50 foot and I don't know. Yeah, like Tom said, I don't know where the 50 foot really is. Yeah, that's 400 foot overall. How did Bob do? It doesn't look like it's to scale at all. It scales about 70 ft to the back of the thing. So the bakery. How about to How much front from the his line to the front of the bakery? There to there. So even if he stayed in the back of the building, the back of the house. Yeah. He's fine. He just got to he's got to stay out of the front yard.

Come up with probably 20 spots. Well, he can I mean he shove all these guys back closer, too. Well, the the write up says four to five houses on each side. So, it may only be eight and not 10. But they can park in the front in that district. You just can't park in the I mean, you could bring like AC like you know across the the street like all the other places are. You can get closer to the street, but you where he has it, it looks like it's on the road, right? But this is also a very important with some parking.

Well, it has to be out of the front yard, but the front yard is bas. But he has 15 ft of scale and he's not going to start 100 ft behind the building is when he's going to start the time. So I'm saying if here 40T there if he comes back 10 so we would have to tell Jim that parking has to start behind the building behind the front yard setback. No, it would be on the side of the building or the side but Well, it's not out of the setback.

In the front setback, right? If a building was behind setback, you could have parking in front of the building. But the problem is if a building is at setback standards would say no, it has to be to the side. Yes. Right. Yeah. And if if there would you know he's got this winding they have this winding community stream starting right up at the where the pavement starts. I don't know. Is that a door symbol? But, you know, if you started that just a little further towards the tiny homes and then extend your pavement back, you know,

seems like you'd have moved everything back, shorten the stream, but I don't even know. I don't understand this stream here as just like some water feature. big but it says it says in the middle of stream is probably a bad descriptive it's just part of a pond but then could be a dry a dry stream river rock dry no water in it pavement or stone or something pond and stream would suggest there's water running would suggest running water it ends at the community fire pit zone I think it's the shape if it was round I think oval but I think he's trying to make like the design aspect of it. That's right.

In the middle, but it's really a pond, but just oddly shaped. Pond designed as storm water. Yes. Water. Yeah, I suppose. I mean, I don't know. Designed as Okay. So, the only now do we I would just recommend we would just recommend to him to uh keep his parking out of the front yard setback. That would be our only recommendation. You need to verify depending on the the building bakery to drive parking. You're going to need an analysis of the need satisfied with that. Just keep the parking out of the front yard set back and and supply the appropriate amount of parking needed for his facility.

I think that's kind of where he's going with this concept drawing is to see if if we would even if we would consider this. I think he was going to turn the whole thing down. So it's to show us just what he has in mind and get a little feedback from it and from looking at this quickly it's the parking that that we think is yeah the only issue was parking and the amount of parking is the rest of it feasible. It sounds like it is in zone properly and whatnot. I would say there's no 25 foot or 30 foot setback requirement either that has okay

but I think there's a contradiction here accessibility and circulation two tiny houses nearest the bakery are ADA accessible via firm level pathways gravel is not affirmed right he's not showing that it's concrete yeah no so I mean I I would take issue with that said the ADA that's a debate that many people had but they come down to if it's on a permanent level then Right. So decomposed granite like we use like the scenic woods path and that is considered 88. So the size setbacks would have to be what Casey the height of the buildings. No no no. So none right

I just I think the whole campground throwing me in for a loop. So I'm trying to figure out but the piece you know the thing is is I I spacing between is there anything because literally if you take this move it set it back here you're dropping one two rear four depending on you know or if you're jamming them closer together don't help. So there's no spa thing there's no rear there's no rear set back then either. So he could shove the whole thing all the way to the back. Do we know if this is the full lot that he's showing or if he has more back area? I would say it's the whole Yeah. I'm just right here. Yeah. Thinking about how far back you could go. Well, depending or how far he is back and all that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking So, I think what we're just saying is parking and the amount of parking. Yeah. And making sure he complies with the checklist when he submits a site approval. He's got what? This is just discussion. Yes. These are set how far apart does Oh, it doesn't say. Well, if you look if you look at what 25 yard or you look at 30 foot, it's somewhere in the less than 30, but it looks like it's 15 wide. It's probably between them each of them. Okay.

30. This looks like a little more than these houses are only I mean these are small are these 15 by 30 and they're that's what one two three four five times that's 150 and with only in the length of what that's tiny homes I suspect he hasn't hired an arson right he really just wants to know if we're gonna yeah I guess yeah say no right away it's a smart we're spending money it's a Uh, okay. Next on the agenda is

a question. Is there any concern about these tiny homes becoming residential long-term longer than a certain period of short-term rental or for as a campground license? Yeah, it's going to be called. So, what is that? I have a lot of questions about this is and whether you ever see it again after today. So is there is are there any stipulations as to the length of time uh that you rent these that to keep it in campground stand status?

Is it open year round? Would it be open year round? I think has like seasonal rentals. They have some long terms too. Cinderella does if they ever rent it out. Yeah, they're all season all year basically. Yeah. I don't think there is a lot of camp a lot of campgrounds you can rent that site. Some of them even sell you the site. A lot of them you can rent that site. You pay for a year rental at a pop. Yeah. And you canite in there for a whole year and then renew the next year. Yep. On and off. call so that it becomes like a permanent residence residential area instead of a campground kind of. Uhhuh.

Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, that's I I imagine that goes under the license of campgrounding that we up. I guess KOA could do the same. Yeah. And the one on um what is it? White Haven or whatever. They just expanded with a ton of Well, that was the plans we saw with all the cabins in the back. So, I mean, I'm sure there's some guidelines. what they are. I I don't know. But it's perfect. I mean, we always called it a campground, so we never said it was like a Okay. Yeah. Worth a conversation turn small, but it really is rental. Yeah. But wouldn't it be if it's classified as a camp you have a campground license,

it's a campground. If it turns into something else, it would be code enforcement. Correct. Well, theoretically back here.

Okay. And ensuring lines is definitely something. I'd want to know how these are put in the ground, too. He says foundation or if they're just sitting on footings. Probably a slab. He just said found. I just looked at the price quite like would be a hodgep being moved around or I would expect them to be basically a trailer. Mhm. That they take the wheels off and it never moves ever again. Yeah, that'd be my guess. Yeah. Okay. There's just so many different kinds out there. So,

well, the biggest thing was we were worried about was the parking and the amount of parking. You can make a mention that the housing type probably number one planning board needs to know what's going on and two then this goes to architect goes to architecture review board it is a business so you know keep in mind that that's a component of it you should be seeing yeah we definitely need way more information than what he's given us. Yeah.

Okay. Next on our agenda is our grass and snow law. Now, the only thing I I sent everybody the request for bid sheet. Um, I just want to touch base on that real quick. I'm not going to go through all of it, but you don't have it. They're they're they're calling for flower beds, planting beds, um lowlying tree branches, cleaning gutters, small structural removal, small small structural removal. I don't even know what that is. Like an old shed.

I got edge trimming. That's a How many people do edge trimming? I mean, I think that this I don't think that the bid sheet equals the law. No. Right. By far. Like it's Well, I think some of the stuff that I flagged and I I didn't wasn't able to make that one meeting, but to me that's just like a language that's in there and the definition. So, I we don't really have definitions for what I think they should define the language. So, what is a nuisance and what is considered obnoxious growth? What I think it is. Well, so I like to keep a but other people like, you know,

um, so I mean obnoxious growth to me, you know, is something that is an obstruction of fire risk, burning conditions or drainage issues. Now, I think instead of just a subjective like nuisance standard, I think a lot of that could be better clarified if we had if we updated the kind of the definition. Otherwise, I don't have any problem with that. So, but I'll let you go on with the bid sheet. Yeah. Well, I mean, one thing is is if they take anything off your property, aluminum, steel, copper, wire, it becomes the property of that contractor. It's great money. Yeah. I I don't understand. You know,

would that put be put into the bid though? Like they're asking for tickets when they go in to turn in the debris material. So that is something we could put in there that I mean if they collect $300 worth of the whatever will that be taken from the taken from your house. Yeah. I didn't the gutter thing. Actually, I do remember the gutter like taking things off the side of your house where they said they could they could they could take gutters that are probably they also said of the gutters

and maybe Tom can that the town should have no no issue with, you know, with liability that they have to do an indentification paper to be approved by the town attorney prior to going to that job site to do the work. That's in here. That's in here. It didn't take it as like an additional insured. The lawyer. No, that's also in here. That the town's additional insured, but uh Councilman Garcia told us that the homeowner was going to be additional insured, and that's not in here. No, it does say the town.

The town will be additional insured. Indempification is basically the contractor saying the town isn't liable for its act is right Tom I mean is that's kind of no but it was to the extent somebody sued the town result of somebody going in and doing whatever on the property the contract would be expired to the tenant indeed by the town

right so you're out of the technically out of the lawsuit but every lawn that's done that paper has got to be approved by the town attorney prior to the work being done. How much does he charge to do that? topification type by sleep and then you're also reason to change it by well there that's what it says in here per per job location

right you can get the contract assignment for each job but form okay so the attorney would come up with one form that the contractor would have to sign just can't detail right address I mean weed whack plant growth and driveway cracks shrubs remove items from the lawn and flower beds

I read it as that the the town so the town flags a property the town goes and assesses the property they flag it up for the work order so they are only allowed to touch and do what that work says and that gets cleared to the tom the tom board. This is the workbook. Yeah, that's there's a lot of the insurance and all that. The back packet of that has all the paperwork. Yeah, but this this has all the descriptions,

right, of everything by the town board. the attorney only looks at it as the bidding process or if there's an argument for their being payment of or something happens on the insurance end of it. But I didn't and I might be misunderstanding you, Dave, but I don't it didn't look like the attorney has to approve of the work order. No, Tom just clarified the indemnification. the attorney would make a standard form that he likes and me as the contractor, I would fill out that form and I'm done. Okay. I I apologize.

But but what I'm saying is that the stuff that's listed in the bid sheet of what they're looking to do is not what's in the law. So my issue is section A, the law says defines nuisance as presents a hazard to human health or fire safety and constitutes a nuisance. So the law tells me you can't do anything unless there's a health or safety issue. It's not just a this is overgrown somebody some neighbor is calling complaining. Right. But where where is the RFP very vague on anything can be cleared out. Yeah.

Doesn't have to doesn't have to oppose the health and safety issue. It's at the argument of that work order that the building department and then they also have to the contractor also has to take the grass clippings to a dump and pay a dump fee and get a dump ticket to turn it into the town before you can get paid, right? Do you know how much that's going to cost? And we we've talked previously about all dump a dump ticket in a in a pickup truck. I mean, I've been in the business for years is 200 bucks. And we talked previously about

and then you got to pay a contractor to do the work and I asked for the bid package but unfortunately I'm under the understand it was once you guys picked it up only one guy bid it so they haven't opened yet because isn't it customary that you need three bids even if two bids are no bid correct correct that I'm gonna let attorney weighs in on what he feels is substantial effort to to achieve It may not. However that works, but the one bid that's been put in is not opened as of now. And so this has been out for bid already. Been out for bid. This has been out for bid. Bids are due. Why are we commenting now? Bids are due Wednesday.

We can ask for we can make our recommendations to the town board and ask whatever we want to ask about this law. Because the law says it goes to the Yes. I mean, I'm still I'm still falling back to

in 2025, those eight issues, eight lawns. That's got to be a fraction of 1% of the lawns on Grand Island. Why are we putting the town or even the building department adding all this extra work on them and now the town's going to be in the lawn cutting service? Don't Don't they have better things to do? Shouldn't it just be a fine? Okay, it's over 8 in. They come They drive Casey's going to come and inspect my new build and on the way there he's going to stop and see that 8 inch lawn that was turned in. look at it from his car and say, "Yep, it's over eight inches." And they get they get a notice to cut like what they're saying, a 10day notice. You get to cut it. You don't cut it. Then instead of them coming and cutting your lawn, they send you a fine.

Tell you why. Why for it? Why no fine? Well, there is a fine, but why they have this also is because there's a handful of houses on the island, right? That there's no one attached to them with no one, right? I got that. There's no one to go after. No, no one answers any letters or anything we send. Okay. Or court notices. All right. So, who's paying the taxes? Yeah. How you That's the question I would ask. Nobody's paying taxes sometimes. So, how you going to get them to pay for lawn cutting then? That goes on their taxes. on their taxes.

But unlike I mean you put the lawn cutting on the taxes eventually when the house changes hands that gets paid. A fine does not necessarily ever get paid. And in those instances the lawn doesn't get cut. That's the that's the needle we're trying to throw. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. For years for years and years the law is not being cut and the neighbors are are very upset about it. That's that's the purpose of this for us to actually do something about these homes instead of just sending court notices to nobody. Casey, is it just lawns or is it garbage or other things? Well, to me, the RFP did that. The RFP is that's what

Well, keep in mind regardless of what the RFP says, we can't go running beyond what that law permits us to do. Which is why in full disclosure, I didn't look at the RFP. We met the attorney said he reviewed it and met his mustard. I said, "Well, if he reviewed it, why the hell do I need to?" But this goes beyond. But there is garbage and debris. There is garbage and debris, but there's a lot like I don't ever want anybody going up on gutters. They can Well, this goes beyond the SC. Yeah. Then why is that in there? I mean, now that they can come and do your landscape bushes under the RFP. You were reading those items. It sound like full service landscaping, right?

But but the loss of it has to be a health or safety issue. That's where I now wait a second. Health and safety issue. Here it is. I have a high efficient furnace that has an plastic intake and exhausted. If those weeds grow up and plug that exhaust, it's going to put the carbon monoxide in the house. So, that's a health and safety issue to the homeowner, not to the neighbor. You get you get rodent issues. You get stuff like that that can uh you know it's pretty regularly considered health and safety having your grass too long. I'm not arguing with the grass. It's everything. Yeah. The clamps gutters, the edging the driveways. Yeah. Do you need to edge the driveway to keep them away?

I like the driveway. I think that's more meant for commercial. Well, I like pulling the stuff out of gutters because I have a Well, you got a neighbor who have someone complain about it. Go do it. So, I have to send my son There there comes a point too of private property. Well, that's what like some of this stuff that was right on the house. The reason I call it private property what flag was. Yeah.

I mean there's an element of this that the ball has already been rolling. So there was to me it was tightening tightening up the definitions so there can be some action to it but it doesn't become so vague in what they can actually go after. I I understand Casey's point. So why can't the law be geared towards I don't abandon the place you are because the law right now was geared towards all of us. I'm in the same place for I think we all agree to that level where if you have a problem with these eight people that were done was done in 2025 eight homes

that the law should be geared towards that not towards the whole Grand Island. That's my problem. Yeah. And I don't And and let me ask you this, Tom. If I let my grass grow because I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna let it grow and and get turned in and then when you send a contractor there, I'm going to refuse them entrance to my property. But I think that's where we need which I can do. Correct. It's my property. Now, I went and spoke to an attorney. He doesn't feel this law is even legal. I think it's that's what's not tight enough is

I think and I'll use the term I think we need a zombie home log. Yes. Okay. If that's what you want to call more sense instead of I agree. And then if you want to go do I mean Tom did do you really want to go cut those eight lawns every year all summer long? No, we want people to do it on their own. Okay. But I'm not I'm a zombie guy. I'm not going to do it. Obviously, there was eight lawns in 2025 that didn't cut their lawns. Do you really? If you were living next to that house, you want that lawn, don't you? At least once a month. Yeah.

And that's the reality of it. It's not just about that person. It's about the other people who have to deal with the ramifications respect to snow and ice. It's about my kid being able to get to his bus stop safely because people are plowing their sidewalks and their sidewalks. And I understand that. But then too, there comes a point where If I have a guy that doesn't take care of his lawn next to me, there comes a time where you need to be a little neighborly me. I cut the tenth of my neighbor's lawn that's on my next to me cuz he won't cut it.

But that's the definition of the nuisance level that I think we need to find or the the safety hazard of this. It's not the woman that fell and she's alone and can't cut her lawn for the summer and we're going to just annihilate her with all this stuff. It's the people that don't take care of their things and just don't care and we have no way of of doing anything about it. That's why I think if we tighten the so it doesn't turn into a neighbor on neighbor thing, that's what it's going to turn into. It's more of a that's why I think I keep going back to the definitions and the lack of or the so we can't there's no variables. It's hey listen this has been a problem this is that you know I where that language is but

don't we have to get back to the law first before we get to the RFP. Yeah. Well that's what's in the defining. Yes. I mean, yeah. Yes. Yes. No. Because again, regardless of what the RFP gives them, regardless of what's called for them to be able to in the RFP, if the law doesn't give the town the ability to do it, it doesn't matter whether or not it's in the RFP. Okay? Which is why, like I said, a lot of that stuff, nobody's going to bid on it. Well, they had one, but my my point is my point is this. Okay. The RFP.

Yeah. I believe Nick did it. Am I correct, Casey? The 15 pages original RFP. Then it went to Then it went to the town attorney. He added 10 pages more. We We paid for that, didn't we? Did Did we have to pay for it? It's not free. No. Yeah, it's not free. But

I mean, the time and effort that we're spending on this for a grand islandwide law, I agree with Bob. It should be geared towards the problem properties only. The the the zombie homes, the the ones that no one's taken care of and all we already know where they're at and how many there are. There's eight. It should be that. And get the town out of a Grand Island wide law affecting everyone's on Grand Island, every private property. Now, if they come and cut my lawn and they the the poor lawn guy gets doesn't have his safety switch on his lawnmower, which a lot of them take them off and gets off his mower and they those guys cut lawns when it's pouring out and they slip and fall and their foot goes under that mower and their foot gets cut off and it's on your property. Norm, they're going to sue you for millions and then you have to go hire a lawyer to sue the contractor and the lawyer is going to, and Tom, I'm sure Tom will tell me this, the lawyer's going to sue the town. Whether or not that dimdemnification thing is going to kick in at some point, the town's going to get the lawsuit. Seleno and Barnes and going to sue everybody. My brother was a lawyer for 50 years. I was in lawsuits. We sued everybody. Even the people that didn't have anything to do with it, we sued them, too.

And then it all shakes out in the end. I just don't think that it's really the triggers, right? It's the triggers as to how this is going to be implemented that we're really arguing. It's the triggers of the really bad actors versus the versus everyone, all the residents.

So, how do we So, how how do you define those triggers? I mean, we can't really just say zombie homes because we have business properties that I mean, look at what we dealt with with at at the Rison with no one in there. I mean, we drive by that every day and it's gotten better. They start but I mean, we need to have these triggers of okay, now this is not in compliance. This is a consistent problem. So, we're how do you trigger that? So, Jen, so the RA it's all on them saying yes or no, go for The new guy bought the Rison supposedly. I don't know if it's gone through or not yet. I don't know. Well, let's just say there's a new guy there.

He elects not to cut the grass because it's going to take him two years to get everything done that he wants to get figured drawings or whatever and he doesn't cut the grass. Yeah, that's what So now we want the town to go cut that grass. No, we don't. But on another level, it's not fair to everyone over there and all the neighbors that constantly complain as to how disgusting that is. is. And if we can get someone in there with a lawn, I absolutely want somebody to go do it. I live right down the street, too. Yeah. I wouldn't want to drive by that. Look at it. Well, yeah, but I don't I don't I don't want my town my town resources and my town taxes to be involved in cutting that guy's. Yeah. I don't want our town taxes.

Can't the town board and and they and it wasn't did this already happened with him where the town board went to him and said, "Hey, start maintaining that property." And it took us two months to get them to go out there and they went out there once and then they stopped doing it again. which is the game we do not want to play. So, can't we come up with a word? Can't we come up with a wording? Can't you come up with a wording? The more narrowly you try to define it, the more you'll realize that there's something out there that you should have put in that definition that you missed and now you can't fix that problem. Well, we can always add it to the law. No,

if we and soon do that. You add something to a law to go after one property and that's going to cause a really big problem for the town. I I I think the spirit of what every we're going towards it's just that again it's like when they talk about driveways and all that like I to me I think the spirit of in the beginning of this is the business owner that owns a business that they've had giant they haven't taken care of their parking lot in three years and there's it's l literally a landmine coming in and out and we have no way of going after them to say listen this is ridiculous and you own a business. How I I mean

I can talk out loud. Yeah. Remember that disaster right now? Get it on the head. The goal here is to have neighbors be good neighbors. And how to get there is the question or whether finding something like this that will but I see how it could fall in as to what you're saying where it could be the back and forth. So, it's defining those definitions and those triggers that really are nuisances and real problems that are not being attended to that the town can immediately act on. So, you're Let me follow you. Yeah. No, what you're saying is let's get the law

and bring it bring the description down to equal more more of the nuisance in in issue properties instead of all of Grand Island. I'm for that one. I'll go for that one. Well, I mean, it would apply to all of Grand Island, but I think what you're saying is you more narrowly define what constitutes a nuisance and what can be subject to the law, right? Obviously, I think that's one I mean, in a perfect world, yes, we want to eliminate any possibility of selective enforcement, but that's exactly it. I'm trying to figure out that selective forcement line. Where's over the line? Where's not enough? Where's being a jerk versus something that's really inducive trying to

trying to get to that point? Look, in a perfect world and perhaps we should have tried finding people first, but in a perfect world that would be sufficient. But I don't to resolve some of the problems that we know we have. It's not going to be and that's why the board elected to go this route. So are we kind of when did we ever successfully find somebody? You issue him a citation 30 days later and then it gets dismissed by the courts. There's a difference between that just issuing a fine. Well, that's up to the courts. That's not what we do. No, there's not. There's mechanisms that we can implement issue a fine so that fines can be Yeah. I'm sorry I missed that. What did you mean? You said between a citation I got that part.

And a fine. The fine. Talk about the fine. We How can you get Casey to find me for because I didn't cut my loan? By drafting a law or properly interpreting laws that we have? Okay. So now he's going to find me. You're not going to come and cut it though. You're just going to give me a fine. That would be a potential option. But the issue is for the homes that have triggered this approach, that's not going to do any good. But you can't they're talking about citation. So the problem is they start with a citation, then somebody has to go to court and ultimately it results in a fine, right?

But whether it's the citation or something saying you owe the fine, if you can't get it to somebody, they're not going to pay it. And the real issue doesn't get fixed. Foreclosure, it's sitting unknown status. Well, houses in foreclosure is an usually the least of the problems or there's walkways that are because they do exactly what the town's going to do. the bank protects they they're going to protect our ass the ones that are getting seized by the county because of walk away from this I'll go back to the word zomb or stuff like that

businesses here we chase and we do I mean I worked here for 20 years you know we when things get really bad that the point of the law was to address a narrower issue than the law addresses okay so how do we how do send from this board to the town board those sentiments that statement the town just made I will remind them once again this can you can you

we've reviewed the RFP it's it goes even further than the text of law and we'd really like to sit down and have a conversation about how we can revise this to limit the scope of the law to address the issues the board intended it to address when's the bidding close for this Wednesday. It's coming 15th. Oh, is it still open? No, it's Wednesday. Yeah, Wednesday. There isn't necessarily an action. Yeah, we don't necessarily have to. Yeah, it's up to bid just because it closes. No. Well, the RFPA says they're due by

Casey. Would that be okay with your department if we narrowed the law down to deal with the problem properties, the the eight problem properties or more? And how does a house get into the become labeled a property? I don't think you can narrow it that specifically. Okay. But you can do a better job of defining what constitutes a nuisance so as to

so if if in eight years we're all not here and they want to read the law and they can stand by what the meat and potatoes of that are, they realize, okay, this branch laying over the driveway is a problem. this this lawn that's, you know, out of control. Not just like there's so many this all this garbage that's been sitting in the front of the yard or the business that has isn't taking care of the potholes or the front yard is or the front business is completely overgrown. That's where I that in my head that's where I'm trying to find where that where that that trigger is of like all right like this is obvious where what's the obvious there is none that's a subjective

right that's what I'm saying so we're looking at one end of the neighbor on neighbor that doesn't like each other and then the building that's completely falling down and we're kind of putting that all into the same bowl but it's hard to do is dirty disgusting windows or broken windows you know you know and I understand And like when I talked to Jose, it's like, well, it's all up to what we would foresee and all that. And I So, so yeah, it's a guideline for them to trigger, but there's no way for this to not have a significant degree of subjectivity to it.

But well, I got a call this past week and the guy wanted to know was if this law was in effect and and he knew it was through the planning board at some point and he wanted to know if it was in effect. I go, "Well, at this point, I think you have to call the building department and ask them." He goes, "Because I want those toilets behind the property that Aldi's buying cleaned up. There's a pile of toilets that been there for like two years. I want them cleaned up right away. So, are we going to be running all over as a township cleaning all this stuff up? Well, we don't have a solution now, right, Casey? Like, they'll sit there and what do you do? Send now a law on the books,

right? So what did what let's so I make a complaint on a situation like that today say I want that cleaned up downstairs what would what could we do about it right at this point we really can just until that gets signed notice to nobody so that's the spirit of what we're trying to do here finding that Aldi's can't even get the guy to sell him the property you think he's going to come from New York City and clean up them toilets but we do it our property right they don't know Aldi's doesn't know I That's all these can't buy the land from the guy because of the issue, whatever their issues are. You think that guy's going to come and clean up his toilets? He's not. He's just going to ignore you. That's the point.

Problem. That's exactly right. And I think we have a lot of those smaller or those situations that I'm probably I know I'm not aware of that they probably we would like on this board we would like them to try to pull it in and gear it more towards the issues and not the islandwide. I think once we get that RFP back, I'll take a look at the then perhaps you probably got a very different not be the full I I highlighted a lot of my stuff already.

You changed this to uninhabited homes or zombie homes. Well, the RFP is one thing. I think the law is really the biggest thing. Yes. And I mean, is the board willing to change the law? Right. That's the first question. I know. Well, you're one member of the board. Yes. That's why I said I am not. I mean, low lowlying tree branches. I'm going to go by and say I don't like Bob's lowlying tree branches. You do you like that look? They should be cut. The objectiveness. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? I I I think there's I think it just opens up too much. And I don't like the liability issue of sending people on private property. Liability goes. I mean, this would be nowhere near the most dangerous thing the town hires a contractor to do, right? Let the town employees do. We generally have them operating on our property. That's right. On town property, not private property. That's the problem. But I mean, if they hire somebody to change the light bulbs in the the street lights and they fall and get hurt,

that's private. That's public property. Yeah. But they still we work to insure themselves for that, right? They I'm sure Grand Island has an insurance policy and that would all get worked out. If somebody's if somebody sues you, they hire somebody like me to represent and you're going to sue everybody. and see where it sticks. That's what they do. So, we'll send that off to the town board. Is everybody good with just that? Or Norm, you got more? All right. Just continue to say shake my head because I mean, how many months we've been talking about this? Well, we need to send the fact that the law got approved before we even saw it. I mean, that still hurts me, but but now we're trying to

Yeah. move forward. Move forward and try to correct. So, are we good with asking this at this point? And then possibly the town board might say, "Yes, we agree." They have to agree. They have to agree with specific language, but they're going to, right? I mean, no. Yes. And no, I wouldn't expect you guys to propose a new traffic law. I will tell them this is the planning board's position and I agree that these were my arguments. I see everybody's point. I But I also assume that there there are legitimate reasons for passing law that gives us the ability to do some of this stuff when appropriate. So,

and raining it in a little bit. Raining it in a lot. Makes sense to them. I think so too. I think right now once you do that then you can back this RFP substantially. Okay. Don't pretend it doesn't. Like I said, you know, you can only do it with people with duty. I mean, it tastes like the only thing that bugged me about the RFP is it went to the attorney and he added 10 pages to it. We paid for that. Yeah, but you paid he added 10 pages of this stuff that protects the town in the all the legal ease that protects the town in the event something goes wrong. So, we paid him $300 to make sure that if we send this RFP out as it was, he didn't have that in there. We did get sued, it could cost us, Tom, we're asking for things in the RFP that we never asked for in the law.

That's that's Yeah, that's above and beyond. Yeah. And I I don't know that I didn't see the first version that went from Nick, but my guess is most of what they added that they being the attorney's office added would have been illegally used to defense and end trimming and shrub trimming and but the problem the the law has very general language and a nuisance and obnoxious growth and garbage and debris. Yeah. But we need a cost to do this work from the contractor. So that's why we had to ask them for very specific things to do so they could price out, you know, how long it would take them and what's involved in doing it.

Casey, would you expect somebody to go in? There's a willow tree down the street that typically hangs down the ground every year. Would you expect him to go in and trim it up to seven feet because I don't like it? We're asking for that. That's a good discussion to have. I don't I don't The RP says are not adequately maintained. So again, subjective, right? Well, Tom's saying to try to rain to rain everything in. So, are we all good with that? Everybody's good. Okay. I don't have any referrals or nothing and there was nothing I believe on our left over on our agenda. So, someone wanted

there. What about those um that pole barn? The pole barn garage things that that packet kicked it back because it wasn't it wasn't complete. The application wasn't complete. Yeah. Okay. Yes, Andy, we sent it back with internally building myself and zoning had a whole things where this wasn't ready for you guys. Dave actually stopped in had a conversation with us and went, "Yeah, I'm in agreement. This shouldn't even be in front of us yet." We would have t we would had to take They have a checklist, right? Well, I have to send No, I'm not against you. I think that's why we're questioning if it was on the agenda or not. It doesn't mean you have it.

So, just so that you know, in case there's not a secretary next month, we're just going to try to send you out very minimal amount of papers, you know, just basically the site plan and not the whole application. Dave, is there can I make a request? Is there any way we can just get a preemptive like, okay, these will come in on Monday's meeting. It's these three things we're discussing. Oh, there will be an agenda. I was digging through my emails to make sure I didn't miss anything. There will be. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's what I'm looking for because I was trying to make sure I didn't miss any emails. And I was fine with what you sent me, but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Yeah. Well, because it came peaceful, too. Yeah.

Yeah. something out directly that didn't even hit me. It's no fault of you. I'm just Yeah. No, just how it is right now. Okay. Motion.