Conservation Commission - Regular Meeting

Where's that?

Why is that? What's that? Let's go. Mark, can you hear me? Uh, yes I can. Can you hear me? I can't hear you. Um, well, I can hear you. And my mic is on. Cara's muted. Okay,

Cara, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me? Hello? I can hear you. Cara, can you hear me? Yes. Good evening. There you go. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm good. Good. Are you in Nevada? I am. Yep. Coming down the home stretch. The session ends June 2nd. I hope to be home this weekend and then maybe briefly for Memorial Day and then and we're almost done. So good. Busy. Very busy. Um I'm actually joining from Ireland. Um we've been on vacation this week. So, be back this weekend. Oh. How's it been so far? It's been beautiful. It's been uh really great. The weather has been remarkable for Ireland. Good. Yeah. I've never been. This is my first time. Um but we are right now in the town where my mother, my husband's mother was born. So, it's been a few. Can anyone hear me? because I cannot hear anyone. Um, no, I cannot. I mean, yes, I can. Yes, I'm sorry. Yes, we're hearing you now. I don't think she can hear us is the issue. Yeah, I'm entering it in the chat. Okay, good that you know how to do that. Okay. So,

it like super early there, Cara. Uh, it's midnight. Midnight. Okay. Super late. One dedicated person. Midnight. Well, um, I wanted to keep things moving. I wanted So, I see midnight once a year. Like me, literally once a year. I've been I've been teasing my husband that he's on um he's usually the night owl. I'm usually in bed early and I've been teasing him that he's actually just permanently on Irish time, you know, like he's he's sort of set for this. Um, well, it's only 4 400 p.m. here. But if it makes you feel any better, it feels like midnight. Are you good? Are you good to run the meeting or did you want me to run it or um I can I can run it if uh if you'd like or if you want to run it, you're more than welcome to. Whatever whatever works for you. Like I said, I know it's late over there. Um Kathy is asking how she unmuted them. I don't remember. [Music] Um, see

Oh, [Music] shoot. Okay, so Kent and Andy said that they won't be able to join tonight. Um, so I think we need one more here to make quorum, right? It's four. Yeah, since we have a full Yeah. Seven. Oh man. Still not working. Uh, we can hear you, but I don't remember what Kent told her. Kent told her to do something last time and she was able to get it unmuted. I think it's muted on her computer, but I I'm not sure.

[Music] I'm gonna step out for one second. I'll be right I'll be right back. Okay. Do we know if we're expecting David I'm sending him a text now. Shoot.

Okay. Hey. Oh, I can hear you. Can you hear? Can you hear her? Yes. Can you un Can you unmute Jim and and Mark possibly, Kathy? I think you locked them. Hold on. Says they have to ask to unmute. Looks like Jim's unmuted. Jim's unmuted. Yes. But you need you you were in control, Kathy. Yeah, you you you there was some default setting that that only you could unmute us. But yeah, but whatever whatever you sent in my direction worked, but I I had to acknowledge it. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, it says Stephanie and Mark need to ask to be unmuted. So, Jim, how did you ask to be unmuted? Did you I I didn't um I was given permission to unmute myself from Kathy. Okay. See if that worked for Stephanie. So, they they should see a little I mean, I saw a little popup come from Kathy uh in the in Zoom. So, hopefully they'll see the same. I just got mine. Okay, good. progress. So, do we want to get started, Cara? And we just can't vote on anything? Yes, I think I think that makes sense. Um, why can't we do we not have a quorum? We don't have a quorum. We only have three out of seven right now. So, I think So, we you said Kent and Andy are definitely not joining. And then, and I sent a text to David, but he hasn't replied yet. Okay. And we don't know about Will. Don't know about Will. Okay.

I will say this. Um when I tried to click on the Zoom link through the website, it would not work and I had to click um on the Zoom link in the agenda that uh Kathy sent me. I'll have um I'll let Tristan know tomorrow and he can see if there's a problem. Okay. No, I just I was just thinking out loud. Maybe they have the same problem, but they should have the agenda. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Um so I'll go ahead and call the meeting to order. Um I think first on the list is um public comment. Um so I see Stephanie on the line. Um can we try to get Stephanie unmuted again? I sent her a uh looks like I might be unmuted. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Okay. I'm just here to uh listen in on the uh part about the Barnar Hills Farm property because I am the butter to that property. Awesome. Thank you so much. uh for joining us. Um so the next uh item on the agenda is the minutes, but as we don't have a quorum, um we can't vote. Although Jim, I did see you sent over some comments on the minutes. Yeah. Yeah, I'd sent those a couple of weeks ago, but just resent them a few a few minutes ago to Kathy. Yeah. Okay. Um Zach, any other comments on the minutes?

Okay. All right. Um, so Barnor Hills property. Um, so Jim, you were um would you like to lead us off with that? Is there anything uh I know there's been some development um we've got some proposals for uh additional language and and engagement and there was discussion at the recent uh u board of selectman meeting. Um yeah so so actually Cara I thought we were going to go through your list. Um, okay. I mean, yet just to say it briefly, yes, there's been two meetings with the A commission and those have been been great and some things were drafted, but that was that's that's really about, you know, okay, the, you know, the the big picture and and and what do we overall think we want to do with the resourcing and protect it, etc. Uh, but I think first on the list was well was was your the list you you gathered from everybody and and and kind of making sure that everyone understood current status. Yes. Um Okay. So, um, and and and maybe just to say, I'm wondering if others had trouble with the Zoom link and whatnot and where it was because, um, I guess there were a couple of, um, agricultural commission folks that we expected to see here as well. And anyway, just to say that like maybe we should have a discussion, but it's the short version of the discussion. I'm There were a number of folks who said they were going to be here who were not. So, Yep. The link on

the original announcement website that I looked at did not work, but someone seems to have sent me one that works. Okay. Hello. Sorry. No. Um, thank you. Um, thanks for joining. Um, so I'll jump back then since we we do have a couple of u members of the public who weren't here before. Um, was there any uh comment that you wanted to make from the the public? Not yet. Nope. Okay. Thank you. All right. Great. Um so I think one of the issues that Jim had flagged um and the agricultural commission was that monitoring and management will be key to the ongoing uh relationship with farmers. Um and I think one of the questions is how do we manage that with limited staff within the town uh volunteer commission? Is there a role for the conservation commission? Is there a role for the a commission? Um you know what what's feasible for this kind of engagement? So, who's that to? Um, I would say well I mean it to the commissioner, you know, the other commissioners on the the members of the conservation commission. Um, and Mark, if you have any comment or or thoughts, you know, very welcome to to have you join with those. Um well, yeah, maybe I can set the stage

just a little bit. We we did detailed report. Um Stephanie was not going to go through the board report unless you want me to. She'll be thoroughly bored because it would just be a repeat of what we did at the uh board of last board of selected meeting, but I can kind of um summarize it for you here if you want. And if if that's um helpful um we can start with the the the um specific issue of this property and this farmer and this farm lease if you want. So uh just to go back um few years ago um I I think I first um addressed or started to try to address the issue when I first took over as first selectman. Um um and then it kind of fell more specifically in my lap uh during the interim in which I was serving as a town manager. So there are three town-owned properties that we have uh for years leased to farmers for various different uh uses. Um a lot of it was feed corn or hay but but there were three different properties. The agreements in which we had with those farmers were not they did not coincide with each other. So they expired at different times. In fact, I think one expired without us even knowing it expired. So, we set out to kind of clean them up and and try to um get some a process and some sanity around them, if you will. So, uh we set them up so they would all expire at the same time and then we uh put them out to bid. Now, before we put them out to bid, we actually um did beef up the agreements. the ones you see now um or have seen are actually um stronger in a couple of ways um than the the previous ones. And um so that was done mostly in house. Our lawyer reviewed it. Um I also I don't remember so don't quote me

exactly whether I asked the entire a commission to review the leases before we put them out to bid or whether it was just uh the chair, but we definitely referred to them and asked them to do that. So, um, and then we we the bid was open, I think, for at least 30 days. We pushed out notices of it notification system, that kind of stuff. I believe, don't quote me, we got five responses. Um we we designed the RFP specifically to be fairly narrow because we did not want to get um in a situation with you know three different properties and trying to compare apples and oranges on each one. So what if you were going to bid there were only two terms that you were allowed to bid on. Um one was what you would pay annually and the second is what crops you would grow. Um um all of this is if you if you're really interested in all the background, you know, Abby can give you the entire packages, but so I'm just summarizing. Uh five respondents within pretty close proximity to each other. They were all proposing the same thing. At least two of them proposed um some growing of tobacco, the rest of them some combination of vegetables and other other farm products. um uh you would you didn't have to bid on all three. You were invited to bid on any one of the three and we we were prepared to take the highest uh responsible uh bidder for each of them that turned out to be Mr. Bagot on all three properties. Um so we um he's into he they are fiveyear terms and Mr. Bagget is in just finished his first uh year um of those five-year

terms. As you guys know, um some of the residents who live near Barnor Hills roughly a year ago, you know, don't again not exact dates raised some concerns through the uh they fell primarily into three categories. Uh one was the use of the command herbicide. The other was around uh the farmers use of the site and and and not cleaning up and the workers um being kind of disrespectful and leaving trash. And then the third were some activities around the wetlands. So very briefly on the three different areas on the use of command. Um around the same time, maybe a little bit later, uh one of the residents filed a complaint directly with Deep. You guys know all this. I'll skip ahead. After investigating and and doing a report, um, Deep did issue a notice of violation. It's our understanding that we've confirmed by both Deep and the farmer that he has resolved those. There were two things that came out of the notice violation. Um, and uh, there were only two things. uh one was um using the command um inconsistent with uh the labeling on the product and then generally speaking the second uh finding was not following or properly documenting in many cases the um what the label required for worker training and notice to workers was specifically with it related to the application of command. So I h I don't we're not a party to the proceedings so I haven't seen the um the final final report but I have seen an email from deep saying that um he's resolved it to their satisfaction. Um I believe not 100% sure what that means is because the farmer had already committed to us that he would not use

command on any of these sites. This is the only one he used command on. didn't use them on the other two properties and won't use them on any of the properties uh going forward. And I and again I'm presuming that um he agreed to follow certain um guidelines regarding the posting of the property and training of employees. So where we're at generally with this farmer is um I think I've reported this before. So, he's agreed to certain things even before the deep uh uh complaint was resolved. He's agreed to um not use command. He's agreed uh to um posting notices. And at our last meeting, I agreed to walk the property with the neighbors to identify locations that everybody was satisfied with respect to the notices on uh whenever he makes any application of a chemical, what was applied, when it was applied, and if there are any, you know, stay clear um regulations, he would post those so people knew. Um, I don't anticipate that that would create any conflict, generally speaking, with the the use of the trails and the walking paths around there because he's only spraying those the property and and not uh the trail. He also agreed at the end of every season to provide us um with um his application records, so what he applied and when. Um he's agreed to uh trailer on and off the site every day when there are workers on the site uh certain safety stations like eyewashes, but most importantly to the neighbors trash containers. So he's going to promised us he would do a better job of uh policing that and and taking care of that. And and then finally, the the town um agreed to try to post some additional

signage uh if it was necessary um around Stephanie's property in particular to make sure that was clearly delineated the difference between town property and private property there. We had some uh we put some signage out there a week or so ago that was dumb. Frankly, it didn't solve the purpose. So, we pulled it back out and we've agreed I've agreed with the neighbors at our board selectment meeting that uh when I get back from working in Nevada legislature in a couple weeks, I'll walk this site with them. And if there if there is other signage, Stephanie can tell you if she hasn't already, she's on her own. She uh had posted her property to make it pretty clear where the property lines were. But if there's additional signage in that regard, we would do it. Um that's generally speaking on the the um the command concern. Uh the concern around trash. I already said that the farmer committed to trailing on and off trash receptacles and policing that better. I I um it's an absolutely legitimate concern that we're going to have to rely on the neighbors if he's not doing what he said he was going to do to so that we know it. And then uh with respect to the wetlands concerns again this is just generally speaking there were the farmer did some work um related to crossing of salmon brook you guys are familiar there's a path down and then in the previous uh uses the um the previous farmer um kind of cut across this got down to the brook and then cut across the brook at a roughly a 45 degree angle. Not sure why they did that, but that was kind of the history of it. Um, Bagot came in and uh cleared some stuff and and cleared a path that you could go directly across instead of going 45. Every single time we got an email or

complaint to the best of my knowledge, we tried to follow up the best we could. Uh Mike Walsh reached out to to Deep way back a year ago as soon as the neighbors and and because what our lease agreements currently require is that the farmer comply with all applicable state and federal regulations. That's what and so none of us were familiar with what deep required with respect to that particular chemical. So but like those referrals um the wetlands We referred the the uh concerns to our wetlands agent Kate Bedes who went out as I understand it. She she met with the farmer on the site. She met with residents on the site. The ultimate result of that is she asked the farmer to to file a written um request for review which he did and it's my understanding that Kate reviewed and signed off on the request. Um, I will repeat what I said at the board of selectman when it comes to wetlands reviews. Um, these residents are not the first ones who have expressed concern to me. I hear it all the time. The wetlands regulations favor agricultural uses. So, yeah, farmers get to do stuff that you and I um, for the most part are not necessarily allowed to do on our property. I think the one thing that the farmer could have done and should have done differently is I think technically should file that request for review before you do the work. Um again probably will come as no surprise to any of you. This is not an excuse. It's not an explanation but um a lot of folks don't a lot of folks don't file the request for review upfront till someone notices and raises issues and then they go back and review it. So that that's what happened in this case where

I think we stand now and and I know that this may not satisfy all of you that you may still have concerns but this is where we are. We talked about at the board of select and so the farmer's done a fair amount to try to um address the issues and concerns that were raised. Um there are two specific things that we've been asked either by you or your members of your commission or by the neighbors or some combination of you that we are not uh currently prepared to do. And I'll I'll explain that in a second. So the first is we've been urged to just declare the the farmer in default, terminate our agreement. Um we're not going to do that, but we could do that. Um, in fact, if you read the agreements carefully, we don't even need to have a default. We we gave the town an out in these leases without really a reason. But that's not what we do in Graanby, and I stand behind that. People raise concerns. If you try to address those concerns, um, I don't, so I don't think it's warranted or it's prudent, especially since the farmers resolve the deep issue to their satisfaction, at least for now. and at least for now he's satisfied our wetlands um agent um that he's complying with the wetlands regulations. Um the second thing we've been asked to do is to amend the agreement to do a number of different things but I think they mostly coales around providing an upfront plan of what you intend to plant each season and what you intend to apply during the season uh and when. And at least one of the residents justified that by saying that the reason you do that is to kind of predetermine the suitability of each particular proposed application. Again, we are not currently

prepared to do that for a couple of reasons. The first being I think um Carrie you were just starting to touch on this is the town right has no practical ability to determine what's suitable beyond relying on what deep allows. If the state allows a chemical, if you and and requires you to apply it under certain circumstances and you do that, the town is not in a position to say you have to do something different, not under these leases. Um, and I think it's we have to be very careful about changing that. equally important which is why I have invited you and the a commission to work together um is that that kind of requirement a pre plan every year from our farmers on what they're going to plant where they're going to plant it and what they're going to apply to it would be a substantial departure from what we currently do and not just for this farmer for all farmers in Graanby um and that has I hope you'll accept this even if you don't agree with it, that has potentially wide range impacts on our agricultural policies as a whole in our town. So, we are going to be even if you're frustrated with us, we're going to be very cautious about those kind of uh long range wide ranging potential changes because we have stated and written policies that be a friendly and um in Graanby and we got to be careful what we do. Um my own personal take is if we if we tomorrow required our farmers to give us a pre pre-planting and pre-application plan we would have gone from one of the farmer agricultural friendly communities in the state to probably one of the most difficult ones

because I don't think to the best of our knowledge so far there are any other towns that are are requiring that. So, I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. I'm not saying that that doesn't might not make sense. I'm saying we need to proceed cautiously. Um, uh, that's why we want your input. We want the ad commission's input. We want our agricultural community's input. We want residents input before we before we start going down that road. Um, so that's kind of where I think we are. Um, I don't know if anybody has any questions about that or if I can be of any other assistance there, but um, one point of clarification. Um, did I hear you correctly when you were saying that you that if you if we started making requirements for town-owned leased land that that would also apply to other farmers in town? I don't think by definition it does, but two thoughts. Two thoughts there. Um, it does apply to other properties beyond the three. Hulcom farm is a town owned property. So, I don't know how we could logically or um reasonably segregate certain town properties and require certain things in others. Um, and I don't and I do think we have to be very careful that um, even if we if we could legally say you using town owned property have to do X, but everybody else can do Y, we need to be cautious about that. That's just my my own personal opinion that um, you'd have just speaking for me only. You guys know me. I don't I'm I'm not afraid to have people concerned or and and mad and and I do want to hear what you I want to try

to find solutions, but to me personally, you got a long way to go to convince me that we should have different sets of rules depending on who owns the property. I think that's a that's a difficult path to go down and we we need to do it very carefully. We have farmers throughout Granby that are either adjacent to Salmon Brook or part of the watershed. And so, um, it if if there are impacts that we should be concerned about, we should be concerned about them on everybody's land, not just the town owned land. That's my own personal take on it. So, so I guess just a couple reactions. And Mark, by the way, I I mean, I listened to the entire board of selection meeting um last Monday night. So, thank you for your comments and the time that you and Mike shared and equally thank you as well to all the citizens who then spoke up. Um cautious and careful to totally agree. Um a couple of things just just quickly. Um if if a dialogue says, "Hey, wow, long about April, let us know what your plan is." Um, now if you were asking Joe O'Grady that in April, he would say, "Well, yeah, I submit my budget to the board in January and this is everything I'm going to plant and these are the supplements that are already sitting in the barn that I'm going to apply." So, it would for Hope and Farm, it would just be a discussion to say, "Yes, this is my plan. I'm going to read it from you, right, for my budget." So, it wouldn't be added work. It wouldn't be extra in my view. It would just be a tell us what you're going to do. So, now if you go with Mr. baggot. He's got corn, vegetables, and tobacco. It would simply be a, "Hey, tell us which one." Um, so I don't see that as ownorous. Um, and then around the plan of saying, um, applying pesticides. Well, of course, Gary Cerillo and and Joe are

pesticidefree, so that's mood. Um but the applying of the pesticides, why why would we have maybe a different strategy and practice on different properties? Well, the townowned properties do allow and encourage people to walk their dogs and ride their horses through. Um a farmer that's further away truly in more of a private setting is not doing that. So that's one interface that comes to mind to me that's different. Um but then broadly overall cautious and careful to say hey what is the best what is the best use of the land and and from the a commission it's promote agriculture from the conservation commission it's you know preserve and protect the natural resource. So, so yeah, what is the best plan for that is not something to to jump right into. Um, but on on some of the things you shared anyway, I hope you you you take at least my feedback and it's the feedback of others that that says, "Hey, wait a minute. These properties may indeed have some different nuances which would easily logically justify a different discussion. I hear you. I hear you. Right now, we're we're respectfully disagreeing, but I hear you. I And to where we where we stand, so everybody again, we're all operating from the same starting point is I I I think it's prudent as a first step. This is what we hired you guys. This is what you guys make the big bucks doing on these commissions. um is you work with the ad commission and make some recommendations to you to us not just for these le I'm you don't you can do whatever you want but I'm suggesting to you that you make some

suggestions to us both with respect to these leases and how it might impact other properties in in Graanby other farmers in Graanby because if you don't you will be at least ignoring what some of the concerns are and and so that's that's and then we'll we'll see where that takes us. There is there and there's there's a larger scale. So you got the narrow scale of these issues raise some questions about how we're doing things in Graanby which are good. We should be having these conversations. Absolutely. Um and now we got we're in the process I I think it's the next item on your agenda is reviewing the current plan of conservation and development. So, it's a good time to decide whether um you know whether we need to make some changes and how broad the scope of those changes should be. Um I just I'm I'm trying to be fair that with me particularly, we got to I want to be cautious about how we approach these. Um because again, and I said it, everybody knows it. You don't need me to say it. there. We have agricultural uses all the way up and down Salmon Brook and and in the watershed there. So, and some of those are publicly owned properties and some of them are privately owned property. So, we need to we need to know what we want and in my own personal opinion needs to apply to everybody that that going down a road where we have different sets of rules regardless of what we use to determine which set applies to whom, whether it's property ownership or or anything. My own personal view is the rules need to apply to everybody if they're going to make any sense at all. So, but there you have it. So, please So, that all sounds kind of negative. I didn't mean to come on and and be negative. Um so so please

keep doing the work you're doing. Um I I this is my life. So I'm you know every other year in odd numbered years I'm gone a lot but I'm home soon. I'll be home June 3rd. The the legislative session is ending here. I'm happy to participate directly. I'm happy to sit back. I'm happy to provide guidance. Whatever you and the ad commission do need us to do. But that's the starting point. If if if the starting point is the two different commissions have a recommendation that makes sense to both of you, that's a pretty good starting point because you you know you guys look at it from two different lenses. This is for Cara Marshall. Is she there still? She's muted, but she's there. Okay, I think they're being unmuted as we speak. Yeah, I think we're caught in uh Okay, I'm here. Statement for you and I realize the public hours passed and it's your call whether you'll permit me to say anything. Um please please go ahead. Okay. And I realize um it's your meeting and you I'm addressing in terms of your role as conservation commission that um Mark's not really here is a like a board of sele but um I would ask you to really put a priority to the issue of whether any action on town owned land that involves a threat to natural resources has to be handled the same way as private property. I think Mark and I just fundamentally disagree, but I think

it's something for the conservation commission to weigh in on uh in an advisory way. And I think there's a ginormous difference between a farmer breaking a lease because he's leaving trash around and that is sort of an egg friendly issue to work through versus a threat to public safety, which this is and was. I think that's the point at which the town has to has an obligation morally and to the citizens to treat it differently. And if you have to encourage the town, the conservation commission to put a way higher priority in resources, that's what I'd like to see the cons conservation commission do. A health and safety issue. That's it. Thanks, Peggy. Um, yeah, I think with health and safety and rules, I definitely see Mark's point of like I I think the way I'm coming to it is the deep rules are the floor like the minimum. That's what's designed to protect health and health and safety. I think what I'm interested in exploring uh above and beyond the barn door hills issue is you know what um with the town owned property you know can we can we hold ourselves to a higher standard and you know is there a way to through you know maybe the next RFP process and what we're considering what we're inviting um with those agreements Can we go even further than what we would expect of um you know a a general private farmer will say you know I definitely think it is very important for Graanby to remain a a friendly town. Um and so I think with with some of the specifics you know we

will continue to work with the agricultural commission to you know explore what we might be able to do there. Thank you for replying. And I think Zach had been wanting to say something too. Yeah. So, as I've mentioned, um, and for those of you who are unaware, I work for Deep. I work in the pesticide management program. Um, so I have some insight that probably can't really uh detail too much, but the fact of the matter is um, you drive up and down around town, and this kind of goes to Mark's point, you know, holding people to the same standard on their personal property versus town owned property. You go up and downtown and you go along all the houses, probably other houses on Barnor Hill, and you see them with their Mosquito Squad sign out or their Mosquito Joe sign out and they're having the same chemicals or hypothetically more detrimental chemicals um if you went and read the safety data sheet um applied to their properties on a monthly basis. And this is where I know when it comes to farmers, if we put up too many gates that they have to go through, we're not going to have five applicants. We're not going to have a single applicant interested in farming any of the three properties that we have. And this is where my suggestion has been all along is to suggest the practice of IPM. If you go and talk to um the farmers at Hulcom, even though they're not using pesticides, they're practicing good management practices found in integrated pest management. So that's where you have cultural practices like no till farming. They're putting up wind brakes, things along those lines to help conserve their soil. Um different good

practices that we would want to see on town owned property. Um, and even it you're not going to deter farmers from creating a plan or having an integrated management plan because when they sit down and look at it, it's going to save them money in the long run because they're only applying pesticides when they're needed versus sticking to a schedule where Mr. Bagot might know, you know, normally I'm getting aphids on my tobacco come Fourth of July, so I need to spray um July by July 1st or I'm going to have aphid divots all in my tobacco leaves would make them unsellable. But this year, we're running a little two weeks ahead of time versus last year. So, um, practicing IPM would kind of help mitigate and reduce the the input of these chemicals that people are concerned about. Um, those are just my thoughts. And, uh, it looks like Stephanie has her hand up. If you can unmute her, Kathy. Thank you. Yeah, I uh did hear Mark say and I kind of want to clarify with the group if I'm understanding correctly um that we can't add any restrictions over and above deep and that pre-notification would be only about us restricting further what the farmer would be using. I know I don't speak for all of the neighbors, but my concern with getting a pre-notification ahead of time of what would be used would be more on not to restrict the farmer's use over and above what deep allows, but because in this previous year, what was used, the command product was applied inconsistently with deep. So I think it would go and really go a long way to help the neighbors restore confidence in the town and in the farmer because right now what was used was used inconsistently. So if we were able to know ahead of time what's going to be used, we could feel more confident that

okay, this is a product that's going to be acceptable that we can ourselves review and see yeah this is something that the state agrees is safe that we can feel confident is safe in our neighborhood. I think some of my neighbors might be looking to have something that is completely pesticidefree, but I would say at least from from my perspective because my hayfield is right there. I'm looking to be confident knowing that there's something that's going to be applied that's not going to damage my hayfield before it's applied instead of finding out after the fact whether or not this is going to be an issue. I think for me it's less of restricting what he's doing beyond what deep is allowing, more just helping me feel confident that we can trust this farmer since his previous lease says that the lease he has says he's not supposed to apply this and he applied this incorrectly. So right now I don't I just don't have a lot of trust in this farmer. Building on your words, Stephanie, I think you what you're looking for is communication. Yeah, I I think and and and then you know Cara's words around um you know deep is is a is a floor or I'll use the word baseline like yeah everyone's saying we're going to follow the baseline um but a communication plan given what happened in the last year or a touch more communication given what happened in the last year is I guess in certainly with all the discussion with the a commission no one including our multigenerational farmers thought that was ownorous because they've already bought this stuff already. They know what they're going to do. So, it's it's it's easy to clarify it in an email. Um, and then one more, just as as Zach was was talking, the integrated pest management um, you know, a combination of of of strategies. Um, there's also the NRCS uh, uh, conservation plan uh, format uh, which Grandandy Land Trust uses a lot of, you know, cover crops and

other things. So, so yeah, there are a lot of good strategies that are applied around town that are um in addition to of course following the laws. Yeah. So, I think um we'd like I'd like to Jim and Zach continue this discussion of how we can as a commission support IPM other conservation. We'll continue to talk about it with the ad commission um and try to pull together some uh recommendations. I think we have a start on that. Um and uh we'll continue and and I think we'll add this to the uh jumping, you know, ahead. I think we'll continue to talk about this next month and and you know, really try to pull together some recommendations. But we we hear you. I think we all want Graanby to continue to be an a friendly town. Um and uh you know just find that right kind of balance um and see what we can we can do with this very important part of our town. Um, so I think I'm going to move us on along um to the plan something new um but I think related we we've kind of hinted at it the plan of conservation and development. So Mark, would you um I know that we're the town is getting ready to to work on that. Um would love to hear about what's planned there and um you know we're I think we're eager to help. Yep. So I can tell you what I know. Um and um there is work for you all to do. Um so it's actually on the planning commission's agenda tonight is

their second discussion related to um the update to the plan of conservation and development. So under state law, you have to review these uh plans every year. Uh the town has traditionally set up a process where they set up a committee to kind of break down the plan into sections and review it and look to see if it's there's anything that's changed in the last 10 years either in the assumptions we made or the goals and strategies we want to employ for the next 10 years. So that process is starting just now. It's already in its infancy. Um the the plan, the revised plan, if I remember reading the um information correctly, is due uh roughly 18 months from now, September of 2026. So um the planning commission is going to take almost full responsibility for managing this process. So they are uh tonight's agenda item discusses I think for the second time they're they're working through how big they want the committee to be uh what members would sit on it. This is the review committee for the the plan um and what they want the makeup of the committee to do. If you if you pulled their backup for tonight, I'll save you the trouble. There's there is um one spot reserved for the conservation commission. I think one for the a commission and a couple of the other commissions. So, there are dedicated spots for those. What they're trying to finalize then is how big does that make the committee and and how many um do they want um residents to fill out the committee? Um, and then they're going to put together a whole schedule of public meetings and workshops and notices and and you know, if it if it goes the way it happened in the past, you know, the the committee will break into subcommittees and take responsibilities for getting public input on certain

aspects and stuff like that. So the the best thing for you to do is reach out Cara for you to just reach out to Abby um uh Abby Kenyon and um you you guys should pick your representative and then um that representative can keep the commission as a whole um informed on the process they're going through when the public workshops are what what issues they're discussing when they're once they get that settled and kick it off. It's a lot of work. So, whoever's getting getting ready to volunteer for that 18 months sounds like a lot, but they will meet regularly like every month if not two or three times a month between now and then. There's a lot of work to do to go through and then look at the plan. Um, so so there's definitely a spot on the committee for you all. So, your your task will be to pick who you want your representative to be and then definitely coordinate uh with Abby. the board of selectman won't uh will we'll get probably updates because I think there's a board of selectman seat on it as well. So we'll be involved in the process through that but the planning commission is is going to manage this entire process. Does that answer your question? Very helpful. Thank you. Um so I will definitely follow up with Abby. Um any other questions from the other commissioners? All right. Okay. Um, I would normally stay on, but I'm getting a text that something is going on in the legislative house. Do you mind if I drop off? Uh, no. Thank you very much for joining. Oh, David, did you want to need anything else from me before I go? I was I was just going to make the observation that uh when I first joined the commission not long after I joined

it um there was a gathering of people to sort of review how the plan was going and look at some of the things that were um you know there were initiatives in the plan and they were allocated among several bodies and we had some small portions also. So, I'm just flagging that, you know, putting the plan together as one thing and then there'll probably be another process afterwards, you know, much lighter of um helping to move things forward that were outlined in the plan as as as you know, as desirabables. So, maybe three or four, five years from now. Very good. All right. Thank you, Mark, for joining. Thank you all. I look forward to being in person at an upcoming one. Thank you very appreciate it. Yep. You're welcome. Okay. Um, next item on the agenda was sustainable Connecticut. I think um we real quick, Cara, do we um before we jump off, is is anyone of the commissioners who's here really want to be the um person? Ju just I I know it's a lot a lot of pressure real quick, but just seeing out of the four of us if anyone is super interested or wants to think about it more. I want to think about it more. I want to reach out to Abby and and get a sense of um you know what the expectations are, what the meeting frequency is. Um I mean I'd love to do it. I don't know if I can. Fair enough. any David or Jim. [Laughter] But Cara, so I'd say ve very interested, but I'd be delighted as you learn more. Yeah, please please share. We would love to get hear hear the whole picture and and and yeah, certainly if there's a

point person, as you hear that picture, understand how the point person then might be able to delegate and engage others to spread the load too. Yeah. Um, no, no, I definitely between now and our next meeting, I'll reach out to Abby Kenyon. Um, and we can discuss further in June, um, you know, who might take up the the banner for the plan of conservation and development. Um, any thank you. Sorry for jumping in, Cara. No, no, no. I'm glad you did. Um, I was thinking it, but I didn't say it aloud. So, it's good to say it aloud. Um, because you can't read my mind. Um, okay. Item six, sustainable Connecticut. Similarly, um, I do want to sound out Mark on that a little bit more and get his thoughts um, so we can prioritize it. Um, so any other comments on that at this point? I think we've we've touched on it a couple of past meetings. Yeah, I think that's fine. I think to see what what Mark's feelings are, if how much he values uh us maintaining the bronze and yeah, kind of weeding out if we can even obtain that with um like the affordable housing stuff and a couple other categories that might be hard to obtain. Yep. And then um I guess I don't see Will on for composting. Um so I'm going to propose we move that to uh the next meeting.

Um similarly to um for uh energy conservation um I was unfortunately unable to attend the meeting with Mike Walsh. Jim, were you able to make that? Do you want to provide an update? And and and so was David. David David was there as well. Yeah. So well um I I guess good discussion. Um Mike um was um provided a kind of a nice overview of of sort of the last 10 years um and and and as he understands it. Of course, he's only been here a year here, and that was kind of context for how in the past the town may have looked at and evaluated some solar projects, energy efficiency projects, and and and provided some nice background. Um, we didn't we didn't solve anything, but but but yes, uh, wow. Uh here's a um here are some areas that we can continue discussion and dialogue on you know specifically solar but also talking about building envelopes and um uh you know mechanical systems. So um and and uh Mike then further went on and highlighted that at the May the 5th board of selectman meeting um and said and said I I am delighted to have these volunteers. So uh David you are committed. I'm kidding. So, um I know David, other other comments. Kathy, can you unmute David? I think he's muted.

Thank you. Um it's the muting is working differently now. Uh I know. I don't know what it's doing. Okay. Um host is in control. I I just wanted to add a little bit to what Jim said. It was I think striking. We were struck by his cander and his thoughtfulness. Um you know, it's it's an advantage to come from a larger town. Um that has done more stuff and has maybe more expectations of progress. Um, and I think he uh and and I think one thing that was helpful was his uh assessment of you know sort of like history what Zach was saying but also the like the the capacity of staff. Uh yes there's been some shifting around but um there there also people who we might think are in charge of facilities who don't have that much background in energy uh in forecasting in um you know efficiency in building envelope in um you know in BTUs. So, so I think it was just to emphasize Jim's point, he was very glad to have three skilled, you know, I put my skills more at public education. Jim and and Kent have more technical skills available and we referenced you a lot. Um, Cara, some of who's got a ton of stuff also. I think he was thrilled to have volunteers available who could uh, you know, do some advanced work that would be, you know, new labor for the town. Um, and my and the piece that I'm tasked with is is uh digging up like audit uh uh programs and and support which I should just ask you about. Cara um so um I need to I printed it out uh because I was going to be there in person but um I have some materials from

Eversource. There are some new offers uh around building envelope and weatherization. Um, so I'll drop that by the town offices for Mike and um, you know, I'd be I have colleagues who are more than happy to have conversations about audits and um, helping create a plan for energy conservation. Good. Maybe I should let go of that and you take it over or I'd be I'd like to learn more about it, but I don't want to slow things down. So, just maybe clue me in or or take it on, whatever you prefer. Yeah, I um I will keep you in the loop on uh for next week. Yeah, thanks. So, good. And Cara, maybe just one as as as uh just to add to David's good comments. Um um I I think our discussion was it was not so much about getting a lead certification score. It was about how do we queue up the right capital projects, right? Um and and um you know, Mike of course is very complimentary of of the staff that works for him and runs our town. Um but yeah, kind of as David alluded, well, hey, look, they're they can do this and this, but maybe they don't have those skills. So So as an example, within an hour of that meeting, um um Mike had sent me, you know, an older version of a 10-year capital plan and said, "Hey, how about how about in a couple weeks we talk about this?" you know. Um so it was it was yeah it was a really good discussion but um I think really kind of focused on on what um what investments might be wise especially in the energy efficiency space. Um yeah we can we can definitely get some resources from Eversource to help with that as well. So um we will keep that moving forward. So, thank you guys. And again, I am uh I was laid low with

the flu, so I was not unfortunately I was really not in good shape to go. So, um thank you for keeping it moving. Any any other comments? Um so, uh item 10, in-person meetings. Um, I wanted to keep this meeting as a Zoom meeting because I'm traveling and I know um Mark was traveling. Um, do we you know I um are there I would certainly be very happy to meet uh in person at some point this uh summer or you know as soon as we can. Um, is there appetite? Would you all be available, Zach? I know sometimes you have trouble with evening meetings. So, I think we raised I'm I'm I can be as flexible as possible. I I know we raised the question before because our meetings are currently recorded. So, do we need a room that has the capability to record our meetings so we can continue to post them online? Kathy. Yes. Um the problem is that [Music] um Mark kept calling I forget what Mark kept calling but Abby has a meeting tonight. I think it's planning and zoning. Um so they typically are in the town hall meeting room. Um and besides even that meeting space is uh hard to come by because there are so many boards and commissions. Um the other spot I believe they can do it in

the um senior center the community room but I think that's tough um because the way the systems set up but I will get a little more information on that. And that is another room that is used a lot because if the senior center has programming or sometimes they have dinners, but I will look into that as a possibility. Okay. I um Kathy, I will follow up with you via email um about um what the possibilities are um but I'm not hearing any concerns from the other commissioners about uh hold holding an inerson meeting. So, um maybe I'll just say we'll look for the the next of our regularly scheduled meetings uh for which we can get a room. Okay. Can you unmute David again, Kathy, please? I don't know why it keeps going back and forth. It's probably David. He's a troublemaker. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to raise the question of um uh of a hybrid meeting because I think more public can come if it's both available in person and and uh you know via zoom or is that how other meetings that are done in town hall in these rooms that that have the capability? Is that how meetings are done? I think yes. Yeah, that's how it would have to be. Great. Thank you. Yeah, Tara, again, I'm kind of out of order. Could I say something? Go ahead. Well, I know I say it about every meeting, but um I think it's respect to the public to have a hybrid. I think your standing as a commission is greatly diminished by

not meeting in person. And from the point of view of a rabble rouser, which unlikely comes up before you very very often, that freedom of assembly, it's hard to assemble on Zoom and have a show of force. And I think that was shown with the group barn door people, Hills people. Um, presence in that board of selectman's room is qualitatively different than zooming in remotely. And I think the hybrid I think it's great if family member if people who have families at home can do the hybrid but I'll get even more stern. I think there's no excuse not to do that from a public governmental policy. But I'm done till next time. Uh noted. So, okay, we will uh um we'll figure we'll we'll get some in-person time one way or another. Okay. Um yes. Okay. Um topics for our June 10th meeting, I think. Um, continuing to talk about farm leases, um, identifying a, uh, representative, uh, for the plan of conservation and development. Um, uh, energy conservation, we should probably keep on. Um, composting, we should probably keep on the agenda. Um, maybe we'll drop off sustainable Connecticut at this point. Anything else we should be adding? No, I I think we skipped over library conversations. I don't know if that was

intentional. Shoot. No, I'm sorry. I I did miss that one. Um yes. Uh so, let me back up. Library conversations. Um I think our next one is May 22nd. I will um yeah I will go and introduce the you know represent the conservation commission. Uh I think Connor Hogan is going to be talking about insects. Um so that'll be good. And then I think um the other uh we've got some meetings scheduled for the fall. I think the um Holly's request is that we get the dates finalized. Um, I believe Will was going to do one on composting. Um, so and then Jim and David. Um, if you David, you were raising your hand. Did you want to I think I think I'm in October. Okay. Um, if you could please work with Holly and, you know, um, before, you know, in the next week or so, finalize your dates, finalize your speakers so she can get her fall plan pulled together. Um, it'd be very November. November's confirmed. Um, I heard back from Connor on Monday, yesterday. Excellent. Excellent. Great. So, um, thank you for that catch, Zach. Okay. Um, the other thing, do we want to circle back and approve the minutes from last meeting since we have more? Great catch as well. Um, do I have a motion? Uh, I move to

um accept the minutes as approved or as written plus uh Jim's comments that he emailed out. Great. Or as amended, I guess. As amended. Any discussion? All in favor? I I Okay, great. Um, okay. And then, um, meeting topics. Did we want to add any? Okay. I think we pretty much have every keeping everything on except removing sustainable CT until we have something else to talk about, right, Cara? Yes, that's what I was thinking. Okay. and Karen, not an addition to the agenda, but maybe um um after after the travel time and um maybe if if if you and I and and uh um Heather could could chat briefly and let's just sort of design a process to continue the dialogue between the two commissions. Um I don't know certainly want to make sure that like you know all are invited to those discussions but but but hey what does that look like? Do we try to have working discussion in one commission meeting in both or do we do them kind of offline and then bring something forward just anyway just kind of sort say hey what what what should the next several months look like as that dialogue continues and um that's a good point. Thanks. Good point. So maybe I will say by the next by our next meeting we will have um and you know substantially before our next meeting but definitely by our next

meeting we'll have that shape of what the engagement's going to look like and and what we think we can bring to the board of selectmen and when. Great. Awesome. Okay. Final comments from the commissioners. Zach. Um, I just wanted to say thank you guys uh to to Peggy Lee and Rachel and Stephanie and I know there's other people and um like Jim said and I I think some of our other commissioners, I I took the time to even though I wasn't in person or live to watch the last board meeting and I certainly appreciate you guys um your passion for everything that's going on in your neighborhood and um pushing it forward and and I know that the results aren't exactly what you had hoped for or where you'd hope you would be currently. Um, but I hope you've gotten at least a little bit of satisfaction with getting responses from the town and and that's all a credit to to you guys. Um, and um, off off the record, um, I know Deep is being spoken as a baseline. Um, but Deep does swing a much bigger stick the second time around. So, if there are if there are issues, I hope there are not, but come to Deep quicker. That's that's my my word of advice. Um, like I said, I hope there aren't any any future issues or further issues. Um, but if there are, yeah, you're welcome and thank you all. Yeah. And like I said, I I appreciate it. I know it's you guys have been on our meetings on a regular basis for months and I I see you attending like you said in force in person so it's certainly appreciated and um like I said thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, Zach. Well said, Jim or David. Any other comments? No. Well, well said, Zach. I I can't top it, so I will call for a a motion to adjurnn. Awesome. All in favor? I All right. Um, thanks everybody. Have a good night and uh we'll we'll be in touch. Safe travels. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good one, guys. Bye. And how to do this.