Select Board - Regular Meeting

It is 7 o'clock. We will call tonight's meeting to order and start with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Uh, select board members Matt Offen and I will host an ask me anything on Wednesday, February 25th. Uh we will be at the South Grafton Community House starting at 7 p.m. to answer questions from residents. Grafton Recreation will host a someone special dance at 7 p.m. on Friday, February 27th in the Municipal Center gym. Kids grades 2 through five may bring a parent, grandparent, or any adult that is special to them. The cost is $15 per family. And the Shamrock Splashdown Polar Plunge will be held on Saturday, March 14th from 10 to noon. uh join Grafton Wreck at Silver Lake Beach for their first ever Polar Plunge. The registration fee is $25. Um Mr. Offen and I have signed up. Miss Foley will be away. I don't know if the other the other two are uh going to pick up the challenge on that one, but uh you're welcome to to dunk with us. Okay. Um no public hearings tonight. Is there any public comment? do remind you that it is a two to three minute time limit.

Yes, sir. Thank you.

David Glisten, five Stratton Road. Mr. Chair, I'm hoping this evening that um the last meeting was a um complete onslaught of three of your select board members. And I I feel that they had due cause to abstain from um the override because they're looking for intelligent information with a budget which they haven't received. And I'm hoping tonight that if that same thing continues, you'll do your job as chairperson, bang the gavvel, and make sure that they're not disrespected. I think that um it takes a great deal of effort to be on the select board and whether they agree with you or disagree with you, they're entitled to the respect and I think that when that doesn't happen at a meeting, you have a fiduciary redu duty as chairperson to bang the gavl and maintain order. Thank you.

Any other public comment? Okay, first up, uh, we have the appointment of two election workers. We don't require them to come in, so we can go right to a motion. Mr. Chair, move the board vote to appoint Angley Mah and Ray Pulsonelli as the as election workers for the town of Grafton. Second. Okay. Motion made second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? I

I Okay. Okay, next up uh we have Jake Roberts for the recession. I see you on Zoom. Mr. Roberts, if you want to unmute, what happened? Will he signed off? Okay. Uh we can come back to him then. Uh we can go to our Council on Aging director appointment. Hello. Welcome. You uh just want to introduce yourself. Give us a little bit about your background and what what drew you to the role, please.

Sounds good. So, my name is Stephanie Bay. I live in Upton. Um I'm excited to serve the seniors in Grafton and my um experience is primarily serving people in the community. I've worked in community mental health for the past sort of 25 years making sure people have resources, supports, opportunities, community, and I look forward to bringing that to Grafton. Any questions or comments from the board, Mr. Chair? Just say thank you. That's all. Thanks. Welcome. Thanks. You're welcome. Yeah. Sounds like a great skill set. Nice nice complimentary fit. So, thank you. Thank you. Do you have any questions for us? I don't think so. We got a thorough interview. So Mr. Chair, Mr. Elmo,

I move the board vote to affirm the appointment of Stephanie Abbey to the position of council on aging director. Second. Okay. Motion second. Any discussion? Thank you. Hearing none. All those in favor? I Okay. Thank you very much for coming in tonight, Stephanie. Thanks. You don't have to stay for the whole meeting, by the way. Gonna give Mr. Roberts a second. It's connecting to audio. Mr. Roberts, can you hear us?

We cannot hear you. the treasure collector. Sure. Uh we're just going to move on one more uh while you figure out the audio. Um we have uh an appointment for our new treasur collective position, Miss Lynch.

Hi, welcome. I'm Lisa Lynch. Um I live in Hopedale and currently I am the treasury collector in the town of Sutton. Um I've been there for six and a half years. And prior to that, I was in the town of Sherban for 17 years as the assistant treasurer collector. Um, so I'm looking forward to coming here and I'm a certified treasurer and a certified collector through the Mass Treasur Collector Association. So hopefully um it'll be a great experience coming here. Look forward to it. Great. Great. Thank

uh any any questions or comments from the board? Yeah, sounds like we have a lot of experience. Um, so that's great. It sounds like we're in good hands. What, um, what drew you to the position in Grafton? I'm sorry. What drew you to the position in Grafton? Um, well, I really wasn't looking to move. I enjoy where I'm working. Um, but it intrigued me. It was, you know, within a radius that I'm comfortable getting getting here. Um, so I thought throw my hat in the ring and see what would happen. And, um, I'm pleased. So, outstanding. Great.

Uh, any other feedback or questions, Mr. Chair? Mr. I move the board vote to affirm the appointment of Lisa Lynch to the position of treasurer collector. Second. Okay. Motion made seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? Hi, welcome. Thank you. Welcome. Thanks. Um, yeah, as Miss Foley noted, you're under no obligation to stay, but you are welcome to join us for the rest of the night. All right, Mr. Roberts, how we doing over there? We're working on uh I think phone audience. I'm good. Can you hear me now? Yes. Yes. Okay. Sorry about that.

No worries. Uh, do you want to just introduce yourself? Tell us uh what what piqu your interest for the rec commission? Uh yeah. Uh my name's uh Jason Roberts. Um I grew up in Milis, so not too far away. I grew up, you know, playing all sorts of sports, always down fields, always in the gym, um doing different things around town. Um I've got three small boys. We've already benefited very much from, you know, all these playground renovations and live right next to Perry Street Park. Um so I just wanted to kind of give back, get involved. Um, you know, help help the talent the kids have good places, good activities. Um, pretty much the gist of it.

Well, those sound like great reasons. Uh, any any questions or feedback from the board? No, Mr. Chair, go for it. I move the board vote to affirm the appointment of Jake Roberts to the Recreation Commission. Second. Okay. Motion and seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I congratulations, Mr. Roberts. Uh the clerk's office will be in touch about um being sworn in for the position. You are welcome to stay, but under no obligation. Okay. Thank you. Have a good night.

Okay. Uh next up, we have a new police officer to affirm. Good evening. Welcome.

Thanks for having us again. Um, so we're here to introduce our newest police officer, James Prader. Uh, Officer Prader is from Hudson, Massachusetts. He has a bachelor's of business administration from UMass L. He's also a US uh, Army veteran. Served from 2017 to 2021. Uh in 2018 he uh graduated basic training in airborne school. 2020 he had a combat infantryman's badge for a deployment in Iraq and most recently he graduated with the first ROC from the new Malbor Police Academy late January of 2026. So right now he's currently I think in his third FTO week. Is that right? Yes sir.

So three weeks about you know if all goes well probably nine more to go and uh we're excited to have him. Officer James Prader. Yeah. I just wanted to thank you all for this opportunity. Um, it's been a dream of mine for a while and yeah, I'm very excited to be able to serve the grafting community. Thank you. Any uh questions, comments from the board? Congratulations. Welcome to the family. Thank you for your service. Of course, they're all there. That's their That's the rest of your family right there. Yes, sir. They do this every single time. and they're amazing. You're joining an amazing force. Good luck. Thank you.

Yeah. Okay. Good luck. Thank you.

Okay. Uh I can take a motion. Mr. Chair, I move the board vote to affirm the appointment of James Prader to the position of police officer. Second. Okay. Motion been seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Thank you very much for coming in tonight. Thank you so much. Good luck. It's a good group.

Okay. Uh we also have a probationary firefighter to appoint tonight. Thanks for having us. Um I'd like to introduce uh Joe Sarah Mcoli. He's uh been appointed as a probationary firefighter for station 3. Um Joe graduated uh Blackstone Valley High um and has a background in auto tech and construction which we will uh definitely take advantage of in the fire service. So we're pretty excited. There it is. All the stations are new. There's not there's no word.

It's more of the demo side that we look into for the fire department, but demos. Uh, any questions or comments from the board? Uh, you know, congratulations. How do I pronounce your last name? Sarah Moly. Got it. Yeah, it's unique. Sarah sounds Italian. North end. I couldn't tell you. Wasn't there. Have you been in town? Just a little bit about yourself, I guess. Have you been a resident for a long time or where did you grow up? And yeah, actually grew up right in Oxbridge. I have been in Grafton for a little over 6 years now. Absolutely love the town. Love it here. Y it's great. I just want to help everybody.

Well, thanks for stepping up. You'll you'll have the opportunity to do that soon. Indeed, Chief. Keep it up with the recruitment. We're trying. It's it's it's been a strong effort. It's really obvious. Uh you know, with just the regular appointments coming in, uh it's great. Keep it going. Thank you. Motion. Yep. Yep. I move the board vote to affirm the appointment of Joseph Sarah Mikoli as probationary firefighter at station 3. Second. Second. Okay. M seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor? Thank you. Welcome.

Congratulations. Okay, we have some one day beer and wide licenses for the Grafton men's softball league at 115 Ferry Street.

Yes, my name is Jared Ashley. I do live in Grafton. I've been playing Grafton men's softball for 19 years now and uh we're just seeking an alcohol permit to serve some beer on Sunday mornings while we after we play we can enjoy the games and that's about it. Yep. This is a pretty standard thing. We do it uh every year. So um any any questions or concerns from the board? I know the dates are just every Sunday, April 19th through September 20th. Yes. Okay. Labor Day tournament this year. No, that's

Yeah, we we're going to try to bring it to something Labor Day, but we not going to be as big as it was before. Yeah. But we're just It's tough to get the teams and not a lot of people play that much softball anymore. Yeah. So, that's about it. Mr. Chair, Mr. Alman, I move the board vote to approve a one-day beer and wine license for the Grafton Men's Softball League every Sunday from April 19th through September 20th, 2026. Second. Okay, made to second it. Any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? I. Okay, passes. Thank you.

Thank you very much for coming in. Okay, next up, uh, continuing our discussion on the citizen of the year award. Um, we had received some some mockup docs from town staff with, um, the nomination form, the criteria, and uh, the award itself. Um, is there anything anybody wish to highlight or discuss, ask questions? It all looked great to me. Yep. Same. I agree.

The only thing I'd highlight for folks watching is that I'm not sure. We already voted on this. Did we or do we have to vote or anything? We haven't yet. Okay. Well, when when and if we do that it will technically be open from now until March 31st for this year if anyone wants to make a nomination. Yeah. And where will the forms be? They'll be online. Yep. Correct. Do you decide where on the website they're going to live? Uh, we'll put them on the homepage while nominations are open and then we'll build a page on the select board subpage for past award winners and they'll live there in perpetuity.

Yeah, it's a good idea. Like January to March, put it on the the bottom there. Okay. Uh my only I guess outstanding question is um did have we talked to the moderator about this just to make sure they're okay with adding this to the Springtown meeting schedule. I have not, but we can close the loop with the moderator on that one this week. I can't imagine they'd, you know, be against it, but it is their show, so So, Mr. Chair, yep.

I move that we um accept the citizen of the year award um documents as presented in today's packet. Y second. Any discussion? Hearing none. Just just to thank Amarie for for all the work on this and whoever else helped out. This is you know be nice to see something a town meeting like this. where we recognize somebody from from the community that's done a lot of probably very unrecognized work. And actually, if I might also discuss Craig right back at you for EDC had kind of talked about doing something similar and really this idea for me started with Lucky leaving. Yeah.

And so he no longer resides in town or as a business. So maybe that could fall to EDC as a possibility. Okay. Anything else? All those in favor? I I passes. Okay. Uh FY27 budget updates.

Let's do that. All right. Um thank you, Mr. Chair. So, the only major update um that uh well, I actually don't have very many updates since the last time we met and discussed it. Um we're kind of in uh a holding pattern while we work out the rest of the logistics. I did want to take an opportunity though. Um I did receive a a bunch of questions since the last meeting on understanding the forecast. So, I put together just some brief slides that kind of help that because I figured uh if people are reaching out to me to ask the questions, there's probably other people with this the same questions. So, um if you go to the next slide, well, so this is the same forecast that I've been uh sharing since um early December. There's no change uh to this document. Um, so a lot of the questions revolve around the budget deficit and whether or not it's cumulative or how that works. Um, because it does seem counterintuitive if you're not in government that the money that we have to spend each year goes up, but the the available uh limit levy limit that we have is is absorbed. Um and so if you look at this graph, it shows the steady increase of what we're forecasting as far as municipal uh costs and expenditures go. Um coupled with that shortfall that then becomes a deficit outlined in the orange down the bottom. There's another way to look at this if you go to the next slide. So this again illustrates the same thing but in blue that shows what our uh projected expenditures look like as seen in that first document. Um however

without additional revenue if we were to adjust it meaning reduce all of the deficit down to zero the amount that you have available to spend is represented in orange. So you can see that uh over time that gap gets deeper and deeper and and or wider and wider and wider. Um so I was trying to find a way to represent that for folks that were trying to understand how the cumulative effect of um the deficit uh is reached. I don't know why it's doing this. Go ahead. It's more buttons. Can I just ask for one clarification? So the projected expenses represents a level service.

Correct. Okay. Yep. And across all departments, correct? That's that's the cumulative I took I'm I'm taking the data straight from our forecast document.

And so the on the previous chart and don't go back because that took too long. Um the blue lines are all exactly if we were uh 100% funded level services budget. The orange lines are what would um how the how the uh growth of the budget would change shape if we were not to fund those deficits that are projected in the forecast. Um so these are our GE general fund revenues. So, I had some revenue questions about um you know where our revenues come from and how we talk about state aid. Um so, you can see that um over five years and I know the you have a 2 and a half% property tax levy. Um however, you've got uh all our new growth is is in there as well and some other things. So, um if you take the entirety of the revenue number that we're projecting, 4.2% 2% of that breaks down from um property tax levies. Um enterprise funds go up by about 2.1%. State uh aid increases only about 1.3% over five years. Um averaged, sorry, let me let me back that up. Um and then uh estimated local and offset receipts. That's your um you know all your your local real uh your local um

meals

meals tax. Thank you. I'm having all kinds of problems over here today. Uh meals taxes and revenues like that. And then available funds, other financing sources. Those are um you know all the other inputs that come into the to the general fund over time. So your building permit fees or anything else that you're you're collecting as part of that. Go ahead to the next one. So if you look at that in dollars, it changes the story a little bit, right? So even though property tax average is 4.2% um when you when you add all of that money up over the five years, it's 13.5 million uh in additional revenue. Um and the state is about $1.1, right? So, percentages don't really tell the story until you start extrapolating extrapolating out the money. Um, go to the next one, please. It's going to do the same thing. So, if you could just pop your way across it, that'd be great. Okay, so these are the major general fund expenditures. Um, again, these are the average increases over five years. Um, so you'll see general government projected at about 5.1%. um and and so on and so forth. But one of the things that I I wanted to point out is the schools are currently 6.2%. Um and public safety is actually um 6.6%. Um and so this is why I wanted to point this out and it'll make sense on the next slide. Go to the next one. However, when you extrapolate that to dollars, um public safety is slated to rise by one point almost 1.7 million over the next five years where the schools um increase to five 15.5 over the next 5 years. Um so none of that is to say look

at the schools or look at public safety or any of that. But what it shows is that when you look at the percentages across different departments, the the percentages don't change a whole heck of a lot. We're all increasing at around the same pace based on environmental factors. Um but when you look at way those dollars impact you later um you know the school having a larger component of the budget and having a larger um swath of the staff have an outsized financial impact when you get to the end. Um and I think that was it. So again these are based on questions that I got throughout the the past um what is it week two weeks um two weeks I think. Um, and so I'll have these up on the website and I've already sent uh responses to people that have reached out questions. So your um the numbers you said those aren't going to change. Basically those

the forecast numbers will not they are what they are. Yeah. Yeah. And I I Right. So we we had had that conversation again all the way back in December. Um and the reason for that is that if we change it with every single change to the budget, it starts to get really confusing for people of what forecast are you looking at? what you're supposed to really that the tool forecast tool is to be we pick a moment in time and this is what that forecast looks like as you try to extrapolate that out over five years. Um it's not a direct budgeting tool. The the budget is the direct budgeting tool. Um and that moves up and down on a weekly basis as we get different revenue numbers or we change the way that we're going to uh approach some some service delivery.

Yeah, makes sense. So, I think it's important that we recognize that that's a point in time um as we discuss, you know, if the board goes in the direction of looking at a longerterm override um that this was a point in time um and it's not it's not an actual budget that we're talking about. It's an estimate, right? So, um so I think that's important for us to keep in mind as we talk about the number Will can you bring the projection slide back up, please?

Yeah. Anybody else have anything specific to this portion of the budget discussion? Because I feel like anything I want to get into starts to talk about potential override scenarios. So I don't want to blend the topic. Somebody has a a straight question for this.

I'm in the same mode.

Okay. Um so I guess kind of combining the the agenda points. Um we have in my opinion spent a lot of time focusing our view on the FY27 budget um in in the deficit you know the 1.4 million that we have right now. Um but I don't believe we've done a lot of you know forward- facing uh discussion of of the additional years. Um, and that to me is is really I think the the it's troubling and and something that we need to at least start. Um, you know, we we talked about when we kicked off this process in October. Um, that we were not going to have final numbers to work with or a good majority of the of the discussion that we'd have to work with, you know, estimates and and projections. Um, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about what we'd reduce this year, but again, um, you if we if we look at those percentages and and the way that gap goes, even if we make the reductions this year, we're that doesn't fix our problem for next year and we're going to come back and and look for the same amount of reductions over the next couple fiscal years. Um, which really just doesn't seem sustainable to me. Um, you know, I don't think we can continue to lose between two to six municipal staff and 12 to 14 school staff. Um, over the next few fiscal years. Um, you know, I I wish we had a a better way around it or a different mechanism at our disposal, but uh, you know, it's it's kind of feeling like that's where we are. And while we spent all this time talking about FY27, um we're going to find ourselves in the

same scenario or very similar scenario next year. Uh and I don't I don't want to continue to to, you know, I guess get stuck on these things year after year after year. I'm not saying that we shouldn't, you know, really deep dive on the budget and continue to do our due diligence, but um, you know, I I guess that would be my question to the board is what what are you anticipating over these, you know, these next four fiscal years um with deficits of, you know, 5% on average, we're we're going to have to continue this one way or another, either either cuts or an override. and and we've been reluctant to discuss the override option this year, but um you know, I just I don't know. Um I' I'd love to hear from other people what their what their plans are uh for the next the next four to five fiscal years or even three.

Mr. Chair, Mr.

So, have we moved on to the override agenda item? Yeah, I guess um there'll still be some budget a fair amount of budget discussion in there, but yeah, let's let's talk about the overall. Um I think it's a good uh it's good that we're looking at the five-year forecast. Um well, I guess so. We had a meeting last week and I think board members weren't super happy having the discussion about the override um because they well particularly having a vote on it whether we were going to move forward with an override or not. Um and you know I've sort of talked to a couple members and understood where people are were at you know where other board members were at with that. Um, and yeah, for for me, I'm wondering if we can just uh I understand that board members want to continue pursuing um cost savings or revenue uh increases. Um that makes sense to me. Um, but I'm wondering if we can continue that uh and in parallel start to have some conversations about what this board's vision is for the future. Um, and to to me um, you know, this this board's in a pretty unique position. of all the boards and committees in town, we should have a a pretty well understood vision for what it is that we want, you know, the direction that we want to move in

as a town. We've got a lot of uh analysis that's been done over the past two or three years. We have a sort of a wreck plan. We have a housing production plan. We have our master plan. Um we have this whole analysis around uh wreck fields uh and sort of facilities and whatnot which called for a certain amount of investment um with lots of recommendations. Uh the conversation that I think this board needs to be having is how does this override feed into our vision for Grafton? like and I would be interested in talking about what are the what are the service levels that we want to uh invest in. Um and it might be service improvements in certain areas like level service or reductions. But that is the conversation that I think is the valuable conversation and really the unique conversation that this board can have um with regards to this override as we look at this from a more strategic standpoint. Um does that does that make sense?

So, you know, I I felt like uh there was a an unintended pressure maybe last week on the board to to make a decision. Um, you guys know I'm anxious. Um, and I'll be very open about it. I'm going to ask for this to be on the agenda every meeting until we've sort of come to a decision on on what we're going to do with this. Um, but I I'm looking to to the board to try to figure out what are the things can we talk about to move the conversation a little bit. There's the strategic discussion that I think we need to have. Um, and you know, I was watching meetings from the last override that we had. Um, and they were on a pretty similar path time-wise. Um, and it got to March. Um, and then, you know, the sort of the clock had kind of run out. Um, and then it became like a a more urgent discussion and we just put out put ourselves in a situation where we had to get in that tricom format and make decisions. Um, and I'm hoping that this board can have some conversations on the runup to that sort of final trycom or however we make that final decision um to help have conversations along the way that aren't aren't just about this year. That's more about the vision and the future of Grafton as we see it and how the override kind of fits into that. Um, so I think we have a lot of other things to discuss too. um how are we going to message this and educate the public? Um all of those kind of things um you know so so we definitely have a lot of things to discuss that I think don't necessarily involve um FY27. So I don't know I'll stop talking. I'm just I am interested in

what the board thinks about from sort of taking a step back from a strategic standpoint how we're thinking about this override. Um because we've got some pretty uh you know the these projections we've been told that's that's those are the numbers that we have, right? So those aren't really going to change. There's no new information that's going to come out with regards to those. So, you know, how does this board feel about those numbers and um can we start going into a conversation about service levels across the different departments and what the board thinks Grafton needs based on where it is today um to to have more of that variety of conversation.

Mr. Chair,

Mr. Alma. Yeah, man. I I think the um the idea of looking beyond one year is probably we need to do something like that. I wasn't looking at it for one year anyway personally, but um I've seen these numbers a bunch uh for a while and I know that we need to do something. So uh for whatever it's worth uh and I I think we're progressing. I saw some things today. I didn't get into the detail of it. other things are happening, but I I think we're moving towards something here for 27, but something that's 27, 8, and 9, it's probably worth considering. Uh I don't know everybody's appetite here for a five-year conversation, but uh for whatever it's worth, I agree that we need to have a bigger conversation about more because we can't just do this every year. It's just not it's not sustainable on a number of levels. So, I'm wide open to a bigger picture long-term conversation.

I know. Not tonight for me. Okay.

I know. Um, I guess I'll just weigh in quickly that, you know, it looks like the school budget is out as of today or yesterday. Obviously with work, I didn't look at it yet. Um, but, you know, listened to the uh school committee meeting and and I guess uh, you know, just for me personally, I found last week I wasn't upset about it a discussion as you said. I was upset with how I felt I was treated in this room. Um, and I found it to be entirely unproductive and actually counterproductive. So, that being said, I don't want to drill on that, but um, you know, I I was trying to look at what else can we do, right? I was looking to to Evan and to Jay. Here's some ideas, you know, that I might have and and what else can we do to close whatever gap it is? if we look at it as just this year's gap or it's going to be an ongoing gap, right? Um and that doesn't seem like it's it's going to happen. Uh certainly from what I heard the school side, although they're looking at the the preschool fees and and one other um set of fees, which is great because they hadn't been updated in a long time. So, you know, for me, that's what I was looking for. Um I'm obviously still looking for to have some time to look at the the school budget. Um, I understand the big number probably doesn't change, but again, if I'm being asked to vote on something or, you know, to vote some sort of taxpayer money funding for a budget that I haven't put my eyes on, then, you know, just for that for me, that's all I'm asking for. I don't think it's a huge ask. So, um, I understand Jay's understaffed and he's getting it done as he can get it done. And for again the the notion back in September, October, we're going to do this whole hurry up. Hopefully what folks have seen is that that doesn't really work, right? The numbers come out

as they come out. Um and you know, we can hurry it up all we want. Uh you know, I do see that we have a problem and that we're going to have to come up with some sort of solution. I've been thinking a lot about, you know, what a one year looks like versus a longer, you know, to your point, Andy, the last thing I want to do is be here again next year and and deal with all of this. And when I say all this, it's not actually the the work of this. It's the the vitriel that's out there. Um, but I've been trying to think about it strategically relative to the school contracts that will be coming up after that one year, right, in 28. Um the state apparently is looking at the the formula that that that whatever that's called that we're working under right now expires in at at the end of 27. Um so I guess that's where I'm at is thinking about, you know, one year and then the school contracts come up. How's that going to look? I know Christy asked it the other evening quite directly, but I again I haven't looked at their their budget, the new, you know, what we've just received um relative to how that was factored in, you know, as as Jay was projecting out. Um and I don't know that that that was answered necessarily. So,

I'm going to push back a little bit because I don't I don't think we can say that starting early is a failure. I think

I say it was a failure. we failed to start early because some of us were unwilling to discuss broad strokes what these things would look like and there's definitely enough that we we could have started these discussions sooner. Um, you know, doing the math, Evan and I talked today. Um, for every $100,000 that we save, that is on average $13, uh, that that the average Grafton resident would have paid um, you know, against an override, let's say. So, my understanding is that school budget book came out today and it is about $60,000 less, which means we saved the Grafton resident about $8 at the end of the year um if an override were to move forward at the expense of weeks of discussion. Um so we continue to focus on these things at such a micro level. Um you know and and like I said 13 13 per 100,000 I don't I don't know that we're going to find even a 100,000 to uh an additional funding to to close this delta. It's possible. Um, but again, these are, you know, these are the the broadstroke things that Matt and I have have been trying to discuss. Um, that yes, it is it is good to to go through them line by line and everybody wants to be fiscally responsible. I think we do a decent job of that, but you know, we're we're we're just defining such a or or or I don't want to say quibbling, but you know, we're we're debating such a such a small amount when it comes down to it annually um in the face of this larger picture. And that's where a lot of my frustration uh has has been over the last two months

even. Um, you know, we we can be talking about rough estimates as to as what we got what we need. Like Mr. Offen said, we can talk about what are our priorities. Um, I thought I thought the superintendent did a great job in his presentation last week. Um, you know, sharing his own personal thoughts at the end, uh, talking about how Grafton is a a minimal aid district. Um, you know, even regionally the next closest we're we're 12th from the bottom. Uh the next closest is is North Bridge. Um they're 32nd from the bottom and we need to invest almost $3 million to to catch up from where we are to from from 12 to 32nd. Um you know, which we're obviously not going to do. That's pretty much a pipe dream. But um you know he went back to the the 2015 override and the discussion that was had at the high school where several le levels of service were outlined and we we chose right in the middle. We chose the the stable route. This is what we're going to maintain for classes. This is what excuse me what we're going to maintain for public services. Um, and in my opinion, we checked in on that plan again in 2020 and we put it out there and and we asked the voters, is this the path that you wish to continue on? And they said yes. Um, so now here we are at at the end of, you know, both of those five years plus a couple years where we've uh additional years that we've, you know, made that um that levy limit last. Um and and to me again it's it's it's time to check in with with the residents and see if this is still the path that they feel is is the best way forward. Um and if not then then have those discussions about what are

viable budget reductions that they can live with. So, I mean, again, this is just going to be a fundamental difference and nothing anyone says, just so you know, is going to change me on this. For me, every $100,000 counts for sure. So, I'm going to look for that and if it's s a savings of $8 per year, then I'll take it. Um, and also, uh, for me, you know, the idea of like we're at this 1.5 delta wherever we are right now. Um, it's it's a tough pill for for voters to swallow, right? So, what I'm conscious of is is this notion of like all or nothing almost. So, we go to town meeting, it doesn't pass, that's actually catastrophic, right? So, what I've been shown if we don't get at least a portion of this is is catastrophic. I completely agree with that. 14 teachers from the schools that ain't, you know, that can't work. So, I've been trying to come at this such that either we're closing that delta or everyone's, you know, digging in and looking and and scrutinizing. Um because we bring this to the town meeting and whatever happens happens and then it's got to go to the ballot box as well. Um, and if if it were to fail, whatever number might be we come up with, whatever amount of years that we come up with, that to me is a catastrophic ending. And I think already I feel like I hopefully have shown the taxpayers that I am looking at this, I'm taking it seriously, and when in fact we get to wherever we get to a year, a a number, then I can say this is it. This is all, you know, this is what we're at. Um, and that's what I've been working towards,

Mr. Chair. Yeah. Um, yeah, I guess just a couple things. Um, so, uh, I'm really trying to be responsive to voter input. Um, so last last week's conversation for me was really about we we got over a hundred emails saying, "Hey, we would like to have this uh on the ballot." and and really that I was trying to be responsive to those hundred residents that took time out of their their day to to write us. Can I just I just want to put a point on that. It the the current official correspondence has been 10 to one in favor of us giving the residents a choice to vote for an override.

Sure. I I I just want to say that um that's where I came from from, you know, from the standpoint of last last week of uh can we as a board decide that this is something that we want to support? um to provide that signal to the to the town and the voters that you know we need to sort of get ready for this. We don't have the final details, but look um I understand that board members wanted to have more um concrete frame around what an override would look like before they vote on it. So, you know, let's in my mind, let's just sort of move past that at this point, but let's continue the the that larger conversation about, you know, um so it the the feeling that I'm getting and and I would love it if board members would correct me, but the the feeling that I'm getting is that board members want to demonstrate to residents that every dollar, and this goes to sort of your point, Emory, like that $50,000 matters. What now? Whatever it like results in tax billwise, it matters. Um, but I still think we're having the wrong conversation. If this board thinks like it wants some concessions, it wants some uh it wants to find some savings or some revenue somewhere, I think a better approach for this board is what Evan outlined up front, which is just tell Jay and I what you want and we'll go do it. So if the board wants a hundred thou, you know, $100,000, we should just say to Jay and Evan, go find it and tell us where it's going to come from and what the service impacts are going to be and and then we could sort of move on with the more strategic discussion. So that's one that's one suggestion I would

have um because it the concern that I have is that we have had several weeks of individual board members with different interests in trying to find revenue and and cost savings and whatnot. Um and it really is I it feels to me like that is uh gumming up the works a little bit in terms of the overall conversation and the the the glide path for this override to move forward. Um, so I'm more interested, you know, so the board could do that. Um, and if we've got a an amount or like some a percentage or like that's what Evan said his sort of, you know, experience was is boards would say go look at a, you know, 0.25% cut and and that's what this board wants to see. Um and we sort of hand it over to the professionals and the budget people that are looking at those um to to come up with that. Um but I you know I don't think that number is big enough to make a huge difference in terms of the rough numbers that we're looking at for an override whether it's three years, five years, whatever it is. um if it's plus or minus I whatever the number is 100 grand I don't know um it it's not going to make that much of a difference in terms of the our discussion about we don't have budgets for FY28 930 you know uh going forward what we have are estimates so what this board has to discuss is how much capacity do we want to think about uh giving to the operational budget um to operate within over the coming years. And and that's that's a that's the conversation that I think we should be having. And how does that again to go back to the sort of strategy, how does that fit into what we think of where Grafton is today? And and

what we want to see in terms of our service priorities for Grafton going forward that I think that almost should be our only conversation about this. And if we've got questions about the, you know, this year's budget, uh, we should just kind of give them a challenge. And, you know, the types of things that I would like to talk about is, you know, there's always this discussion every time with overrides that we should be living within our means. Um, I would really like to understand. So just in some brief discussions um I think you know that living within our within our means scenario is that we would have systemic cuts over the coming years. I don't know how many, three or four or five years and we would eventually get to the point where we would have a cost structure that was in line with the two and a half uh you know uh le levy limit um addition that we have each year. So like is that what this board wants? Um and if it is like again let's go to Evan and Jay and say what would that look like from a service standpoint? like if we were to just say we're not going to do an override, um what would that look like in the schools? You know, how many positions where would we where would we even out um and and be able to quote unquote live within our means and and is that is that what this board wants for this town in terms of its service levels and investment in these various departments? Um there's another scenario where you take the forecast and say we're going to do a five-year override and it's going to be 9.7 and that's the number that we've been given and um so we're going to sort of go with that. I previous boards with other overrides have sort of taken their approach has been we're going to take the five-year number and we're going to add just a

little bit you know 0.25% is is what the last two boards had decided. Um, and we're going that's going to be a little bit of uh cushion so that we're not so tight um with our budgets and and the 5-year, you know, override expectation if that's the direction that we go in. Um, so we want to give just a little bit of wiggle room in case something unexpected happens. Um, and and so that's an approach we could ask Evan and Jay to say, you know, how do we get out of this over time, a longer period of time? How do we get out of the systemic overrides? Um I think there's very little that this board can do if anything to produce revenue like that's that's not what the select board really does. So we have to really deal with service levels and investments. Um that's our view I think that we have to really work within right now. So, you know, we could ask like if we were to try to navigate our way out of uh this structural deficit that we're in or the override dependence or however you want to characterize it, you know, we've had $1.4 million approximately um revenue gap uh for the past decade or so. So, that's sort of our run rate is about 1.4. and we've seen that the past couple of years. Um, if we're going to work ourselves out of that, you know, what we're going to have to do is we're going to have to spread out all the growth, I think, in in the schools and like, you know, hiring additional police officers, all of that kind of stuff. We're going to have to spread that out and instead of hiring an officer a year, we're going to have to do it every three or four years. I don't know. I don't know what the formula is for that but um but you know the these are these are the kind of scenarios that I think the board

should be considering and asking questions about. I think that's the valuable conversation that this board can have and I've got some very definitive ideas about what I think our investment levels in the various uh departments should be. Um, but I'd rather save that for a a board discussion um where we can all kind of have that. So again, I'm gonna stop talking for a second and just check in with the board. Does does this make sense? Um,

so guess say something. So um when I look at this from kind of from a business perspective, I look at the cost drivers. What what's what's driving the need for more funds? We have the schools at 3 million. We have unclassified at a million a year. Is that pretty much insurance? Is that what you're budgeting? That's what it's unclassified. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So I I just feel like we're play we are playing a very dangerous game. All right. by by having look at the projections right schools three three3 unclassified a million a million and then there's you know some other categories 100,000 here two or 300,000 here those are the cost drivers so for me we need to focus on those and see if there's there's any room because that's what's driving the whole need for an override right so if if if the teachers are getting a 6% raise this year to the tune of two million you know and the school's asking for three million for every year moving forward so they can continue to give 6% raises. So that's a question because when you look at this, you know, this statement, you know, and where we're going, this projection forecast, you know, that sticks out to me and that's something that we have to talk about. We had we had had a meeting in mid January and we're supposed to circle back with the school committee and I would like I think we really need to do that and you know and have that conversation with them have the conversation about the forecast have the conversation about what their plans are and then talk about what we're looking for an override but I just feel like with giving you know with these type of numbers if we go and the dangerous game we're playing is if the taxpayers say no you know I look at I want to keep people's jobs. If we can give a 2 or 3% cost of living raise and keep everybody, then I I would vote for that rather than giving out raises that we can't afford and then going back to the taxpayer and asking them for more money on a commitment that we made and we knew when we made it, we couldn't afford it because that's that's the reality of what we're doing and that's not fiscally responsible. So, and I don't want to see people lose their jobs. We're talking

about, you know, losing somebody on the town side. That's the only person on our engineering department. He's been here 20 years. You know, we have that massive project on George Hill Road coming plus all our other road jobs. And he's, you know, his job is to to be our eyes and ears in the field and make sure that our, you know, five, six, seven, eight million investment that it's protected and these roads are constructed properly. We're talking about laying him off if we can't get an override and then we're giving out big raises and and we didn't have we didn't get to have the discussion about about the health insurance part, you know, because it was late in the game about maybe adjusting um the percentage or adjusting the the plans. So maybe there was some savings there, maybe there wasn't. But to me, that's that's got to be part of the discussion, too. I think we we need to talk about what we're going to do for next year. And then I think we really need a strategic plan for the following year on how we're going to negotiate the contracts, how we're going to spend our money, how we're going to try and get as close to a balanced budget as we can without asking people for more money. Because like I said, when people say no, and they may not, they may say yes, but those hundred letters you got, there's 20,000 people in this town. So, and we passed two overrides already. My fear is the game that we're playing. And if the taxpayers don't know, then the school department's going to suffer, the town side is going to suffer, and I think we should be doing everything that we can to avoid that. And this forecast doesn't show that we're doing anything to avoid that. We're just keep spending money we don't have and then going back to town meeting and say we need more. I don't think I don't think that's a good approach. So, I think we need to talk about that with the with the school committee. And

if I might just to interject there, you know, in looking at these line items, I will agree with Craig. When you look at schools and unclassified, you know, it's a a huge chunk. People saying, oh, 100,000 here, 100,000 there doesn't really matter. Well, like if you look at health and human services, that's literally what they're going to go up in five years, right? 100,000 or thereabouts. So, um those are two big chunks. I appreciate the the the school committee meeting from last week and you know what what the answer is, I don't know, but it's it's you know, $15 million over five years at the schools. It's a big number.

Can't do that.

So, a couple things I guess. Um, we did have a brief discussion about the health health insurance plans. Uh, you know, I I think that was an unfortunate circumstance. Part of part of the rush was because we needed to get into the GIC. Um, if that was something that we wanted to adjust, we needed to have that conversation with town administrator sooner and make sure that was a priority when the union negotiations were happening. It is, I think, a little too little too late at this point to to hang our hats on that and and point to that as something that that should have been done. That's an instruction that we should have given if that was the way that we wanted to go. We are going to continue to do outreach. We've discussed that um and and move employees into uh the plans that that best suit them uh and and keep their current level of service while also reducing, you know, I'll say just the overall burden on the system, both the money out of their pocket and the money out of the town's pocket. Um I think it's also inaccurate to say continue to say that the schools get a 6% increase this year. Not everybody at the schools get a 6% increase. There was a 3% cola and then some people will earn additional uh increases based on their steps and lanes. Um again, which is a a a pretty standard practice throughout all municipalities, school systems, what have you. Um but it is it is inaccurate to just come out and claim that that budget is inflated because we gave 6% increases to every school staff member. Andy, the first the budget that we got from the school department and the only one that we've gotten from the school department had 6% raises for every

It had a 6% increase. It did not have 6% raises for everybody. 6% increase. 6% to cover the entirety of the steps and lanes. Every the what people are getting varies based on things like their education experience and their longevity. Here I get it. The the base rate was 3% though. It's inaccurate to say six. There's $2 million in in raises. Okay. So, we generate 2.4 million or 2.5 million in total new money every year. It's just not sustainable. And the insurance thing why I brought that up. And you're right. We should have we should have had a conversation sooner. But I'm I'm I'm thinking about saving jobs. If we could go from from 7030 to 6535, just say for you know that

we can't that is not on the table for this year. We can discuss that but it's not on the table. I understand it's not on the table. I'm saying it because if we were theoretically able to do that and the money that we would generate from that savings would save three, four jobs if it comes to that. I'm just concerned that if we go and we can't get an override pass because we've, you know, it should be, you know, we're living with this all the time and I think we should be trying harder to get even if we end up asking for something, it's a lot less. I think there are things that we can do to if we do have to ask for more money from the taxpayer, it's it's a much lower number and we're not having that discussion either. So, what would we base that on though? I I hear what you're saying. Um, and I think it's a there's a recognition with the board that things are going to be very difficult if we don't get an override. And nobody wants nobody wants to have people lose jobs. And I'm in full agreement with that. But we've we've got to have some method to get to a to a number. So, you know, one way to do it would be to look at the historical uh deficit that we've had, which is about 1.4 1.5. So, you end up a little bit over 7 million over the five years. It's, you know, that's that's one way to look at it. And we're sort of respecting what our run rate has been. And it's a little less tied to to the projections. Um but but we have to have some some method to get there as far as the numbers go. And I that's the discussion I think we need to be having.

Why don't we just start there and ask Evan to just come up with something like that? If we're at 1.4 1.5, can we start talking about something in that range for five years? That's a longer that's a longer discussion and there might be people that don't agree with five years. Um, but we we got to we just got to start getting into this now. We just got to do this because uh I'm I'm hearing a lot of things. I think there's everybody wants to kind of get to the same place. So, let's just go there. Nobody uh I'll speak for myself. I hear other people say it. I definitely do not want people to lose their job and I definitely want to maintain services and I definitely want to be as fair and as um reasonable as we can for our taxpayers.

Okay. So just get let's let's just start looking at numbers Evan because we've talked a little bit about the possibility of putting out a given number and you would run models and I think you're saying the same thing Matt so let's just do that. Yeah if we did 1.4 41.5 like what is what are the service impacts going to be and and that would be the number that I'd be looking for though just so you know I'm just throwing a number out there just starting somewhere in Marie

um so I'm going to just bring up one idea uh that I thought was interesting and innovative and this is uh so Melrose recently offered their voters um actually I think it was three options on the ballot Um, and so they said that there's a stabilization override, which is we're not going to lose jobs. Um, and then they had two other tiers um of uh of overrides. And and the Melrose voters actually chose the sort of the additional investment service improvement um option. Uh it was a it was a big override. I think it was 13 and a half. Um, but what they did was they put it on the ballot in such a way that you could vote for any number of them that you wanted to. You could vote for all three if you wanted to. And the one that got the most votes over 50% was the one that ended up going into into action basically. So if this board wants to consider something a little bit less um but then also wants to respect the um you know the forecasts as they are as you know uh we could have multiple offerings. So, that's maybe not something that we have to decide on tonight necessarily, but it's a I think it's an interesting approach that we should definitely um investigate and think about. Um because I also want additional funding and I want an override to pass as well. Um, but I'm sensitive to the number and I think I don't know where the break point is where the number is big enough so that it's going to, you know, significantly increase the possibility of of failing. But if we have a little if we provide some additional options for voters, um, then we can hear pretty clearly what it is that they want. And

if people want some additional investment in the schools, I'd love to offer them that that option. Um, and and but we don't have to offer that at the exclusion of that sort of I don't know, I would call it the the level service defensible amount, right? So, because what I've what I've I think the voters have told us over the past couple of overrides is they support level service, right? that to me that's what those two votes said. Um so I'd love to offer them that but we may have other options. So Evan, are you familiar with this sort of uh menu of possibilities and how that might work?

I saw that too when I was looking at all the overrides over the last like 5 to 10 years. Um and yeah, I wasn't sure how that would fall here, but I think it's an interesting proposition. I think it's a good idea. Can you can you work on that? Small, medium, large? No, seriously. I don't mean to be I don't mean to oversimplify it. I'm not trying to be No, I just thought that was that was funny. It was a good way to put it. Um I agree. Uh I can I can Yes. The only caveat is again this will be how I I frame the budget. Understood.

Right. So, you know, there'll be you'll have to have some input there once it's done. just as long as you know that the first pass is numbers that I've worked out with Jay and with my staff and come up with they're not going to be um you know everybody's cup of tea but we can certainly put something together. Yes. And if I might, for me that small number might be again things like you know this notion of 100,000 doesn't matter but it does and so if there's 500 it's like that whatever MS4 stick that 150 sticking that somewhere else getting out of the mosquito thing you know so this the small might be

decouple us from from some of those things that were not easy but easier and maybe that gets us at like a 900 number thereabouts and then okay what Does 1.2 look like? What does go from there? I want to dispel this. 100,000 doesn't matter. That's not at all what I said. No, but it's not just you, by the way. I mean, I heard it from All right. A lot of places. Yeah.

Um uh I also wanted to talk just a little bit about um the just the the teacher salary. you know, um it was discussed at length in the school committee meeting and one of the school committee members uh put out some numbers in terms of average salaries and said, you know, it's all on Desi. Go look. Um, so I did, um, and you know, uh, Grafton is out of the 400 or so different districts, we're at about, uh, 100 to the lowest. You know, I don't know, maybe we're at like within the bottom third in terms of what our average uh, salary is. Um, and if you look at the districts around us, the comparable districts that the schools use, um, we're around where North Bridge is, but all the other districts, their average pay for for teachers is is above ours. So, um, I support the, you know, this the school department and the school committee um, continuing to try to, um, over it's a long period of time. This isn't a something you can fix quickly, but um but moving Grafton into a more competitive position salary-wise. Um and that presents some difficulty because if we don't get an override, it's going to mean that they have teachers that more teachers that get laid off. Right.

That's right.

But that's a risk that the school committee and the teacher union have to make. So when they're in those negotiations, they have to they're looking at the same numbers that we are. And so it would surprise me if they didn't have some conversation about look um we're not sure about this last year or we're not sure about the next couple years or whatever. Um because uh you know we have levy limits that we have to work within. So, if we don't get additional funding from somewhere, either an override or another funding source, that's the sort of risk that that the bargaining units are signing up for in agreeing to that contract. But you're not going to have, you talk about level services. If if if you're giving raises out that we can't afford and we go back to the taxpayer and ask them to fund those raises after the fact, which is what's going on, and then we don't get that money, you're going to lay people off and then you're not going to have level services. So instead of giving everybody a cost of living raise, if if you give higher raises that we can't we don't have the money for and the town says no, enough is enough, then then we're not going to have because you're we're going to have to lay people off. I just I just cannot get my arms around why you would do that.

So um I just don't I understand everybody wants a race. I understand all of that. We all we all want that, right? Sometimes, you know, private sector is a little different. Sometimes we get a raise, sometimes we don't, depending on how how the business is doing, how the company's doing, how somebody's performing. So, but we're just we're we're we're playing a dangerous game by over by spending money that we don't have and then going back to the taxpayer and asking for it. That's that's all I'm saying. If I just think it's a bad strategy. I just fundamentally uh disagree with that characterization of it's this isn't a game at all for me. So the sort of dangerous game that you know it's a risk.

Of course it's a risk. Of course it is. And and that the teachers bargaining units understood that risk when they signed the contract. They did. They couldn't not understand that. That must have been discussed. So so they understood that risk. Um we're not spending money that we don't have. What we're doing is we're we have a a path of trying to provide adequate compensation for our teachers so that we're a competitive district. If we were to say we're not going to do that anymore, that's the sort of we're going to make do uh we're going to live within our means scenario. Um what would end up happening as we see in the numbers is grafting year after year after year would be giving really modest cost of living increases and losing ground to other area districts. And I just I don't agree with that scenario. I think that is a terrible strategy. Um so I I don't know and really that you know those those negotiations are up to the school committee to have um and to work through those risks. Um, I don't think that the that this board should be sort of taking on the school committee's risk about potential layoffs. What we have to decide is what's our vision for the school system? Do do we want to continue investing? And and Jay outlined it pretty well. The the big question really with regards to the schools is do we want to continue investing like we have and the school system has gotten a little better year after year. or do we want to do something else? I want to continue investing, but if if this board wants to do something else and come up with a different strategy, um I'd love to hear what that is, but but I don't I don't think it's a good approach to just say we're going to stay within two and a half% and we're going to force the teachers contracts into

some kind of artificial tax cap model for for their negotiations. That just doesn't make any sense to me. And it's really not our job. That's the job of school committee. Um so again, like just looking at the strategy, I I I think our strategy should be continue investing uh in the schools. Um, and we just have to kind of we've got to figure out a way to get to a number that is tolerable by the town side and the school side because this isn't just about the schools. It's it's about the it's about all departments because if we don't get an override or if we make a decision that we're just not going to do overrides, there is going to be the systemic cuts year after year after year till we get to that sort of equilibrium point which will be several years of that. And I I just I don't think anybody on this board from what I've heard tonight supports that. So

yep, I think we're there. Our job is to give Evan direction. We just did. So let's do that. My my just to follow up. So what's the time frame um to come up with these three options? So, we got your 83 days to town meeting. Um, 45 days is March 27th. That's 38 days away. And you have to have this to the ballot by I think it's April 17th. I don't have it written down, but that that's my recollection. Um, so when do you want me to bring the three options?

How long will it take? Uh, I know how long it'll take me. I got to work with the school department. So, I I would say I would say it's two weeks, I would think. Can you do it in a week? I I can do it in a week, but I don't know. I don't know the mechanism on uh superintendent side, and I don't want to speak for him. Mhm. Well, next week he's presenting the budget to the school committee, so waiting that week makes perfect sense. I don't see why two weeks is Yeah. Okay.

Did you take my pen? Uh, no. But I have one. No, no, I had one, too. Um,

okay. Can we just talk a little bit about like messaging and our approach to educating the public? Because one of the main like one of the uh really important uh uh contributors to the s success of overrides is um public engagement and education and all that kind of stuff. So, um I'm hearing that this board supports an override and um sort of recognizes the consequences if if we don't get one. Um whatever the number is. Uh so, you know, what what do we want to do in terms of public education? I I've seen other towns put calculators on their websites uh for, you know, put in your home value and it'll calculate, you know. So, I think something like that definitely I would love to see. Um I I think for the next couple of months we should just have information sort of on the splash page of the of the website um to just um let people know that it's coming and whatnot. Um and I would love to see one or two um just public forums where we make staff and board members available to ask, you know, answer questions and um outline why we need this. you know, when the board's made its decisions, you know, how we came how we arrived at those decisions and um all that kind of stuff to just prepare people for for going to the ballot and um and making their decisions. Does that make sense,

Evan? Okay. What? Yeah. Uh oh yes he said awesome. All right. Yeah. So I was talking all about logistics of how to embed things into the website and time frame. Is that I heard the first part of it. Yeah. Um I would love to have a couple of public forums. Sure. So just you know make people available once we've sort of structured that we have the frame outlined of what the you know um let's uh do some education. uh have a couple of uh I don't know what else we could do, but I would love to, you know, over the next couple of weeks. Yeah. Just some ideas.

Sure. We've we've already looked at what other towns have done that have had successful processes. Um so we have a Will's already built a whole public outreach uh slide deck's not the right word, but infographic uh segment. So we have maybe half a dozen of those, maybe more of that. So we have everything pretty much prepped. Um, we just need to know the specifics. So, we figured get ahead of it. Um, and then if it doesn't happen, then we have them for some other day.

Okay. Um so I mean as part of that I I definitely heard that we want to have uh a joint meeting with the school committee finance committee has requested uh to meet with us as well um to discuss these options. Um we have a little bit of a tricky situation with our meeting on March 3rd and that we have to have a dog hearing at 7:30. Um, you know, so I I think we could we could definitely facilitate a joint meeting. I'd probably recommend that, you know, whoever we have that with uh we start that at at 8. Um, does the board have strong opinions uh as to I guess the order of operations in which they want to do this? Is this something that we want the chance to react to um from Evan and then a joint meeting? Uh do we do we want to just schedule a joint meeting with school committee for for the third? Do we want to make it a full tricom and involve the FINCOM? Um because again, I guess to to all these points and we're talking about doing public forums and whatnot, there are five Tuesdays in March. Um, so we still have a a fairly limited timetable uh to have these both have these discussions and and start working on scenarios. Um,

Andy, I I'd like to see us circle back with the school committee and have a meeting with them. Um, and then after that then if wants to meet with us, then I think fine to do that. But I I think we need a discussion with the school committee first and with Jay and Evan and then, you know, kind of flush some of this stuff out together and then figure out what we're doing. Okay. How's everybody else feel about that? We can try for Seems like the right direction. Sure. 8 8:00 on the third. Um have the have the school committee in here. I'm gonna have to remote in Oh yeah, me too. Me too. I think I know

I'll be here. I'll make it. Okay. Yeah, I can make it. I just I think I'm too Okay. I mean, it's not ideal, but it's the scenario we have right now. It's important that you know, you be here however you can. So, I'm I'm okay with that. But again, I I know I said it over email. I'll say it again here. I think we have a we're going to have a full meeting schedule in March. um you know between some of the stuff that's been discussed here and uh joint meetings. So um can we start earlier like 6:30 or something?

My brain kind of goes to mush after around 9. Um so if we could I'm an old man. If we could start a little bit earlier that would be that would help me just in terms of my staying power in the meeting. Do you want to I my my reluctance with with the starting earlier part is um I don't want us to be mid-con conversation and have to stop for that public hearing that we have to have uh for the dog and then you know try and pick up again after that. I was trying to keep it as one continuous block. So could all the other business like start at 6:30 then like do as much other business?

There's not there's really not much at this point. I mean, it could, but the the hearing and I tried I asked if the hearing could move up to seven, but that is incredibly difficult for the dog officer to be here at 7. They request at 7:30. Um, I mean, would would six would give us a solid, you know, hour plus uh if we if we knock off uh the general housekeeping stuff in the first 5 to 10 minutes and then move into a joint meeting. Um, do we feel like that would be a reasonable amount of time to get stuff some some discussion through? Having a a stop isn't a bad thing, too. Yeah, I agree. Okay, we've heard, you know, we've all listened and heard a lot, right?

Yep. Okay. I will reach out to their chair uh and ask about a joint meeting on the 3rd at 6. Um, again, just I guess throwing it out there, I know you're working through a bunch of these things. Something that you and I had discussed was realistically looking at what those what those cuts look like as we as we move down to the to the balance budget and, you know, kind of a projection of uh what that looks like, right?

Um, and you know, I again having a number of full-time employees would would be great. Um, but I think it it enhances the conversation if we can if we can put departments to, you know, the labels. Um

because again, you know, if we're talking about reductions next year, we I think I said this last time, you know, we discussed protecting kind of the p public safety area with uh fire, police, and and DPW, but um you know, if we've if we've cut staff here to the bone, then then those are going to be the places that we have to start looking in the future. um and I think warrant some serious consideration. And similarly with the with the school budget, you know, these are um you know, these numbers really aren't if we're if we're getting back to to zeroing out, then we're talking about reductions. But um you know, we I think realistically, if we're going to start talking override scenarios, need to consider some growth in there. These numbers don't include any of the one-time funds that were spent or the six positions that were removed last year. and maybe we're comfortable with that. But um you know, even in terms of the the circuit breaker and and revolving account money that they spent um you know, to me that means we have to be all the more efficient with our free cash because um you know that's that's where the if there is a a breakdown on the school side, they don't have the money to fund these things anymore. It is it's and I know we talk about one budget but um you know in in the past they would have they would have eaten some of those costs and uh you know Jay had a slide up during his presentation that over the last five days this was I guess two weeks ago at this point they they had a heating system failure at at Milbury Street a long-term medical leave ice dam problems at South Grafton two resignations septic system issues at North Grafton Elementary and then lost two HVAC units in the computer lab at the high school. Um, you know, it's that's a lot and and the way we run our equipment and our buildings is um to failure. It's past end of life. It's it's to failure. Um, so there there are some of these things that we'll see coming, but but every

year we're we're caught off guard with with something uh a leak, an HVAC failure. You know, the roofs were another thing. They've already uh they've reduced their and it's I think spent out their entire roof budget for the year. and we know there's going to be leaks between now and June. Um, it happens every year. It's it's entirely predictable. So, um, you know, I have some concern that that we're not replenishing some of those costs as as we talk about moving forward or or that that doesn't necessarily come through in the in the numbers that we're seeing here. So, um, that's it for me. We'll look into uh Evan getting us that information in a couple weeks and and everybody, you know, working in in earnest, I guess, to react to it and field scenarios for what we do next. Is that that where we are?

Good. Okay. You okay with that? Okay. Okay. Um, we can move on then. Select board reports.

Um, after last meeting I went to the finance committee meeting, reviewed, spent time there. Um, last week I went to the school committee meeting to just get as much insight as I possibly could there. And last Friday, I met with um Jay to get as much insight and just have an open conversation with him there. All with the intention of u doing the best I can to I'll provide the best insight, information, and decision-m process possible. Appreciate that. Thank you.

Anybody else? I guess I'll just say ditto. It's been all all override all the time. So yeah. Yep. Yeah. I would I did come remotely but school committee in person and um yeah uh again uh well I guess while we're on the topic um we are going to post out of an abundance of caution next week uh a select board meeting because I I expect we'll we'll have a quorum in attendance at the school committee budget hearing. So just so everybody's aware. Just one last one. Uh wait, what what does that mean? Sorry. We're going to post uh that that we're going to post a select board meeting for the night just in case you know there's a majority there,

right? In case we have a quorum in case anybody speaks. So there's there's no open law violation or anything like that.

Um so the affordable housing trust met um and it's updating its grant agreement uh to essentially align with the town documents with the new um operating entity for 1727. Um and also um we're extending the grant agreement to align with the construction schedule. Um it's just lining everything up basically for that closing process um which should be in late March. So uh we're going to meet on Thursday in an emergency meeting to sort of ratify those. They're pretty minor adjustments, but um that's moving forward. Okay. Uh TA report. Um no real update for Metro West other than we're continuing to work our way through the um bid process trying to get everything kind of wrapped up and ready to go out. Um the operations committee which is uh all the chiefs continue to meet and I think that they voted um not I think they voted at their last meeting to um select a uh CAD and RMS system. So that's moving forward. Um so we're in kind of a little uh slow phase right now as all the documents are put together and ready to go. Um, but I I think that once we go out to bid here in the next couple of months, um, then we'll start to really see some some progress being made. So, pretty excited about that. Um, George Hill Road, uh, will be out to bid on February 25th, 2026.

2026. 2026. Is that on the website? Uh, it it's only on here. It will be on the website tomorrow. Perfect. Thank you. Beautiful. Yeah. Um, I I hear you. Can I've had a couple couple residents reach out on that particular project. So great. Um what are the next steps after that sort of we just outline the timeline and we can we can build that out with with um the DPW director tomorrow and put that just in a timeline. Okay. Awesome. Do you know is it 30 days? 30 days. Okay. So you're just going to put that and have no questions. We'll have seal by the end of March.

Yep. Correct. And then we'll open those bid package. We'll they'll pick a low bidder. We'll make sure that they meet all the criter all the criteria and then award the bid and then hopefully they'll be able to break ground in in the spring. Right. May. Yeah. Yeah. Right. All right. Cautiously optimistic, which is actually a best case kind of to get up there and get going. Right. Yep. I'm sure the winter's been kind to that road. I ju I was just up there on Friday and uh yeah, it's not been No, you can't you can't hurt that road now. You can't wreck it.

Well, when the snow wasn't melting after it's plowed, I'm sure it filled in some of those pockets, you know. Um Okay, you can move off this. Stop talking about um Okay, just a update. So, literally two weeks of non-stop sidewalk snow removal complaints. Um, I think I mentioned to some of you to the point where we had to have a police officer escort the sidewalk machine for a short distance because of the level of uh threats that we got. Um, which seems absurd for sidewalk clearing of snow, but this is the world we live in.

I'm sorry. I definitely feel like Matt like my brain is getting a little tight right now, but what are you saying? So, we have a sidewalk machine goes down the Yeah, I get that. What do you mean threat? Uh, yeah. Yeah, we had a very very disgruntled resident. Um, and so we had to uh put a put a police officer on duty by where that sidewalk machine was going to go past that that residence and mirror it for a short distance to make sure that person didn't come out and uh cost our driver. Wow. She didn't want the machine going by.

Uh, no. It was a matter of it's a whole thing. um it honestly defies logic, so I won't go into the whole thing, but um but a lot of of sidewalk chasing and a lot of sidewalks complaints. So, I just wanted to talk about this publicly. So, sidewalks are always done secondary to streets. If we're still plowing the streets, the sidewalks are not going to be cleared. Um if we just had a very large storm like the one we had uh you know a few weeks ago um you know our our folks were out for almost 40 hours straight. We do need to have people get some sleep and then they're going to go out and do the sidewalks and we hit them full force.

Uh unfortunately the sidewalk machine that we have, the largest one we have, the fastest one we have, uh broke about a quarter of the way into

um the process for that big storm. So, we have to use two smaller machines to kind of keep up with it. And they don't do as good of a job. They they just don't. Um they're fine for, you know, six, eight inches, but you get a foot foot and a half plus what gets pushed off the road, it's it's work. Um so, in order to do that, we have two sidewalk machines and two dump trucks pushing snow behind them back off the road for, you know, 30 miles of sidewalk. So, it it takes a long time. Um, so the other kind of thing I wanted to make sure I mention is that you if you have a private contractor doing your home or business and they come uh and and move snow after we've cleared the sidewalk, it's their responsibility to clear the sidewalk. We can't go all over town chasing these little piles that everybody leaves. Um, and then lastly, unfortunately, if you've already done your driveway and we come by with a snow blower, you're going to wind up with some more snow on your driveway. They do an excellent job. I will say I watched um the driver. They do an excellent job of trying to mitigate that as much as possible. I can't mitigate all of it. It's going to happen. Um, so just keep those things in mind as we we uh continue to go through this snowy season. We got a couple more on on deck.

I knew there was a benefit to not having a sidewalk in front of my house. There you go. So, just on that topic, um you mentioned that they were up for 40 hours like that. People should understand that, you know, Graf and DPW take a lot of pride

in clearing the roads. Um and they sort of don't sleep until it's things are safe for residents. Um and it's not like that in all towns. And I think they should be commended for having that kind of commitment to the town and and and resident safety. Um, but we don't have unlimited resources. So, things like sidewalks in massive storms like this, it's I I think we all wish we could do better, but I think given the resources that we have with a snowstorm this big that what they did was was topnotch. Like, absolutely.

Great point, Matt. And if I can just sorry I know it's it's late but um I know I put it on on Facebook at times but you know I I work in I don't know it's at least 10 different towns from North Attelboroough to Devon. I'm all over the place. So I'm going through multiple towns on my way to work every day and consistently I get out of Grafton no matter which direction I'm going which which spoke and which part of the state for that matter and it is nothing like what we have here. So, I just want to commend the DPW and let the folks who maybe are upset about some laps in in um in sidewalks know that I mean nowhere that I travel do I see the roads as they are here. Um and I I travel every day through a lot of different towns and cities. So, thank you DPW for what you're doing.

Absolutely. Sidewalks, too. I I because we were getting so many complaints, I I pay attention on my way here, which is four to five towns depending on which way I go. and our sidewalks are just the same as everywhere else, if not better with our old machine that we're getting by with compared to um some other towns I went through that had some really nice shiny new things that were um probably where we're headed in the next couple years because we're at end of life with the other machine. So um but anyways, that's a that's a capital conversation. We can talk about that that later. Um I'll pile you on. I know it's just snow, but to to that point, you know, that that equipment failure was a pretty big deal. And when you had to bring out the old machine that involved,

again, as I understand it, if you want to speak to it, uh you've moved from one person running a snowblower down the sidewalk to one person now, you know, pushing the uh driving the Vplow and then somebody else who has to clean up what that pushes into the roadway. So you've you've added more employees to the task um that that one machine would have would have handled on its own previously, you know, and and they never fail at the opportune time. It's always the worst time. Um it was an expensive, you know, electrical part that we're just we're not going to keep in stock and and you know, take some time to get in. Um, and I guess get to the to the residents. While while it is unfortunate, um, I think a lot of people just assume that that you or or we know everything that's going on around town and there are some things that, you know, we may not be aware of. So, if there is a snowbank that is too high for you to see around and visibility is an issue or your sidewalk hasn't gotten hit yet and you you feel like it should have, reach out to the DPW, reach out to the town administrator's office. Um there could be a very simple explanation for these things. You know, it's it's

much easier on everybody than the alternative of, you know, um getting overly upset about it and then, you know, the the situation where we have to send a police officer to escort a sidewalk clearing.

Okay. Excellent. Thank you, Paul. Um, so hiring, I just wanted to give everyone I don't usually do hiring as part of my update. Um, but I don't really know where to put this. So you at the last meeting had appointed someone for planning and conservation admin. Uh, they have withdrawn. So that position is unfilled. Um, due to where we are in the budget process and, you know, working through the rest of this, I'm not going to start that hiring process again. Now, I feel feel like we're just we're too close to the end of the fiscal year by the time I get somebody in the seat. I don't I think that's pretty disingenuous when we don't know what the outcome's going to be.

Um so, as soon as we, you know, have some certainty one way or the other, then we'll pick that up and and try to

try to fill that. And then lastly, I I should have put this in the budget part. Um but Silver Lake Beach, we had talked about this last time. Um, so I I did sit down with the director and we have enough um in in um revolving accounts and through um fee collection and everything else to keep it keep the beach open for for um it says fiscal 26, but 2026. Um and the way that we're doing that is because in theory when we fund the beach on a fiscal year, we spend half that money after July 1 and then half that money as we appreach approach the next July one. So we have enough to get to the June 30 and then July one we can go to um some feebased structure and and keep uh the beach open. It may have some decrease in um you know times or days that still has to be worked out logistically. Um but it does look like we'll be able to do that through the summer of 26. um 27 uh fiscal year and calendar year is a little bit of an unknown. We're still working through kind of some of those things. It does it it being selfunding is going to be a a tough a tough road on on that particular item. Um but we're going to continue to work on it um as we as we move forward. So that was the clarification from the last meeting. So and that's all I have. Maybe those algae blooms will work in our favor this year.

Yeah, I think No, I was going to say we fixed it, but then I was like, all right. Okay. Uh, any correspondence anybody wish to discuss? Well, it was pointed out to me that one correspondence was like a direct quote from a film and I don't know if we want to just pull it down then because it wasn't mentioned here that it was plucked from and I looked up the film and in fact it is verbatim. Um, so that's just FYI. It was from Mr. Seabour. Um, it's from the what are you talking about? Just one of the people in support of the override. Um, character. Oh, I can just forward this to you directly if you want. Here it is. I'm watching it.

I forget what movie it is, but it's or a television show, whatever. West. Sorry. I think it's Seabour is a character played by Rob Low. Oh, it's not even a real person. Television showing. I just the whole quote was wrong. So, okay, it's not even real human. No. So, maybe we can strike that or something. See, for what it's worth, bring something good to the dance. And then that was a good cut. Sorry. Go ahead. The um I kind of maybe brought up just briefly earlier with the budget discussion, but I think that the mosquito quote is in here, and I know at finance committee that came up. Yes.

Uh full disclosure, I always opt out, so I'm not for this anyway. Um, but I would see this as something that we could decouple from and add 89,000 or whatever the amount is to our bottom line. Um, so I just wanted to throw that out because it also appeared in our correspondence tonight.

Yes, I think just taking a quick temperature. I think that was something we were all okay with, right? was withdrawing from the central mass mosquito project because if it gets there's one uh triple E or West Nile outbreak in town or in an adjacent town, they're going to they do the mandatory spraying anyways, which you can also opt out of, but when we when we did briefly discuss it, my my impression was everybody was in favor of that. So, I didn't think we discussed it here. I thought we mentioned it. No, finance committee did. Finance committee. Okay. It was it wasn't. We didn't. That's why I wanted to bring it up tonight. Um but it goes to town meeting, right? Yes.

So, I mean, I'm totally in favor of it. Let's bring it to town meeting. We can have people vote on it and uh yeah, I think it's a good definitely a good idea. Yeah. You guys good with that? Okay. Then now we can officially say we've taken a stance on

and then this isn't correspondence per se, but the meeting when I believe I was not here, I was virtual for part of it. you guys discussed the community preservation um committee or act and I thought that we were going to bring that back as a discussion. Um I don't it's fine if we don't but that's how it was left that evening at the end of the meeting and we never really circled back to that. So it might be worth putting that on a future agenda or under your um I think the way you guys left it was it was going to go under the TA report at the next meeting but it didn't. Yeah, you were going to get some numbers or something, but but then and we talked about reducing it, but then we found out we couldn't do that. Right. It's

not in the way we were discussing. Right. Right. Right. So, we kind of kind of sheld it. Right. It didn't seem like anybody was really in favor of it. So,

um we had floated the idea of bringing in the CPC to discuss it. Um yeah, it it has not been um prioritized lately. Uh mostly for that reason, I I felt like um it it really didn't seem like anybody was interested in going that route. So if you are we can throw them in the March mix. The the only other thing that we did talk about and I think it might have been a conversation with Evan is the is the road a font. You know, the override that we do every year for the for road improvement and you know we've been doing that for I don't know 15 years. It's been maybe not that long, right? Because it was the was the first override, right?

Correct. And we talked about doing an evaluation of the roads, you know, and and coming up with that kind of engineering number where we are today. Yeah. And if there was, you know, if we could reduce that number, if we're, you know, if we've gone I think we started like at a 63 or 67 and we were trying to get to like an 80 or something, right? And if we got there, we certainly don't want to go backwards, but maybe we don't need the full amount of that override. um to and that was a correspondence too that someone wrote in exactly that. Maybe we just need to reook at that and see if there's any

I think that was a conversation that you we Yeah. So we um we have the the uh DPW advisory committee who does the roads plan and all that they're coming in in March. Andy, do you remember the date the third? Yep. So I I would suggest for the third. They couldn't make the 17th. The second Yeah. Do they have running analysis around that? They do. Yep. They have data. That's a great idea. Something I thought I was thinking, yeah, as you were talking, maybe we meet with them, hear what they have to say, get a status update. I mean, I'm sure they're not going to come in and say, "Yeah, they Yeah. Take all the money." Right. But the other thing, too,

they'll have a good, you know, a really good understanding of where we are. We're moving some of that over to George Hill Road, too, right? Yep. And that'll take effect when when we when No, not necessarily. Usually it's it's going to be after at some point because we have to bond and and all the other things. So, by the time you get there, it's it's down the road a little bit. Um we'll we'll be working up some financials once the bids are in and we have full project timeline and all the rest. Got it. So, we we decided at time meeting that we were going to bond what was it? Three. No, it's $7 million is what we're bonding, right? That's the total amount. It was It was Anyways, we can we bonded a bunch of it and then we were going to pay what was it 500 grand a year.

I thought it was 370, but I I have no We're going to take some capacity anyway. So, we just need to think about that. Uh fact. I got a good town that have no road over my money. What the state gives them in chapter 90, it's like a joke. Like they can't do anything with it. Half the town spend it on buying a piece of equipment because they don't have money to do that. Yeah. I I live in one of them and it's rough. Yeah, it is. It's so we're we're fortunate that we have it and we don't want to you know I think we need to keep some of it but what that looks like you know

well and yeah that's I mean it was uh you know I guess non-binding no no real teeth in it we didn't dictate amounts but we we did after that town meeting vote for the citizens petition on the sidewalk on old westb say that we were going to devote some of that asphalt management plan money to uh sidewalk infrastructure and continuing upkeep of that, etc., etc. So, um, just another another thing that we've verbally committed some of that funding to. Yep.

Um, the only there was a correspondence uh from Jeff Smith on Old Sawmill asking about uh the process for um purchasing talent town owned land. Um, did anybody get back to him on that? Do you know if do do you know of Amber or Cindy? I do not. I'll I can look into it and follow up at the next meeting. Okay, that'd be great. Uh and I as we're talking budgets and and whatnot tonight, just thank uh town moderator Don Anderson who also volunteered to wave uh her stipen um in the face of the reduction budget as well, similar to what this board is doing. So,

uh meeting minutes. I move we accept the meetings of July meeting minutes from July 1st, 2025 as written. Second man seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? I I Okay. Uh I can take a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Second. Okay. Uh all those in favor.