Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

in the back. Okay. All right. I'm going to call this meeting to order. Um my name is Amy Marm. I'm the chair of the school committee. Um the first thing [clears throat] we will do is do a roll call for attendance. So we'll start with the school committee. Christy Kilazinski here. Rebecca Soko here. Laura Often here. Leora Braum here. Amy Bar here. I'll turn it over to Emory. Okay. Select board. Start with Craig. Uh Craig Dolphin here. Matt Upton here. Mark Alamo here. Andy Jefferson here. Foley here. Okay. And moving on to the finance committee. Start with T. Cal Cork here. Victoria Duckworth here. Greg Mar. Angelina here. Dan Kusher here. Mark here. Roger Curry here. And online we have our uh two remaining members. Heather Mchugh and Nick Ru are also here. Welcome everybody. So, this is the second meeting um to discuss a plan for fiscal 26. Um I've gotten a lot of questions about how this meeting is going to go. So, I wanted to kind of real quick I'm hoping that by the end of tonight we walk out of here and that there's a plan. Um people have asked me is there going to be a vote? That's not my decision to make. Um the school committee and the finance committee will not vote on this. Um I understand the finance committee has a has a um recommendation to present so we'll deal with that. I know uh Evan wants to speak a little bit. Um and I think this is just going to be an opportunity for discussion amongst the three boards again. Hopefully this is the last one of these meetings we need. Right. Um does anybody else want to say anything about pro? Go ahead. Madam chair. Yeah. Thank you. Um if if I could um I'd like to suggest that after we've had a chance to deliberate um prior to any motions being made, we entertain public comment uh applying the standard rules that that each of our committees usually do. Two to three minutes uh to each person and

um I guess hold any motions until after public comment. Okay. Um we can do that. I agree. Um, we'll call it public participation. Thank you. Public comment being things not on the agenda. Public participation [clears throat] being things that are on the agenda. So, if you are here and you would like to speak tonight, you will have an opportunity. But, we're going to let the boards deliberate for a while first. So, please hang tight. I know we have overflow upstairs. So, if folks come in and this fills up, I'm going to count on you folks in the gallery to help usher those people up to conference room F. And I believe it is set up. I see a icon on the screen. So, I'm with that. Yeah. Just one comment as far as the public comment which is which is always welcome. I would just ask them to keep it to new information so 10 people aren't going up and saying the same thing. You know what I mean? If they have something additional to add then we welcome that. That's a great point. Yep. We'll we'll make we'll make make it so that you're not repeating what's already been said. New information only. And our rule with the school committee is three minutes and it's a hard stop. So keep that in mind as you jot down notes of things you'd like to say. All right. So, um, Amy, yeah, just before we move on, um, I'd like to see if, um, we can be agreeable to some time limits for board and committee comments as well. Uh, we have a lot of people here that may want to say uh, things. So, um, at least to start, uh, I'd love to see a similar threeminut rule to just as a guideline and, um, you know, to get back to that person. Obviously, it's not you know, the same as uh somebody in the audience member to to make sure that things move along. I don't disagree with that. Um, one of the things that we do with school committee is that each member of the board speaks once. We don't go back and forth. So, we won't call on like if you talk and then he talks and then you want to talk again, you're going to have to wait till it goes all the way around. How's that sound? And if it starts to go long, we can start to limit people. But,

I I do want to make sure that we get to Fincom and Evan first and then [snorts] we'll have general discussion. [clears throat] Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Great. Do you want to start or do you want to start? Please. Yeah, that'd be great. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, last night, Fencom met and had a discussion with Dr. Cummings and Evan. Um, and we were able to have, I think, a really productive session of sort of deliberating and getting a lot of additional facts kind of level setting. Essentially, we voted on three motions last night, recommendations for the select board. Two of which passed and one of which didn't, but I will cover all three. Uh the first motion that we voted on was a recommendation uh for the select board in this past six to three. Uh the finance committee uh recommends that the select board does indeed follow the current plan that Dr. Cummings and Evan have presented. that being Evan Evans um plan to move $600,000 out of the operational budget and create the municipal solid waste um enterprise fund and Dr. Cummings $69,000 reduction plan for the next fiscal year uh with the added $200,000 that he has planned bringing on that medically fragile student um program back into back into Grafton. The next motion sort of along with that recommendation is the board voted 90 to recommend to the select board that immediately following the adoption of that particular plan uh the select board and all of the other boards continue to work together to immediately refill that reduction. Um, we'd like to see in FY27 and beyond that the FY26 reductions that the school uh will be taking on do not

become the new level funding that we recognize it as a reduction and work to fill in that reduction as well as continue to hold these conversations in a regular manner to be as innovative, thoughtful as possible moving forward to continue to keep ourselves level funded or or or better. Um, as sort of a segue, the third motion that we did vote on first in fairness that did fail did not fail by much. It was four or five. It was not what I would call a mandate by the finance committee, but I think fair to bring it. Uh, and this was [snorts] uh a recommendation to um bring forward a one-year override for that $69,000 deficit for the school. Like I said, we voted that down, but but four to five. Um, I think that keeping all options on the table and being thoughtful about it is still something that we should uh endeavor to do in this room tonight and and and beyond. Thank you. Any questions for the finance committee? Okay, Evan. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, kind of dubtailing on what Victoria was just discussing uh in their recommendation for last night. Um, it would be my request that the boards, um, try to take up first the balanced budget proposal, uh, which is the proposal that I spoke to and then Jay spoke to last night. Um, because we really need to get the warrant crafted and we need to be able to move forward with the budgets that we can anticipate for fiscal 26. So, if we could get that issue ironed out of whether or not there's consensus on us moving that forward as the balanced budget proposal and then any other discussion uh of overrides or other proposals or changes or tweaks have that be subsequent to that because uh we really would prefer not to leave tonight without having that uh wrapped

up if possible. Okay, questions for Evan. Okay, so we will open discussion on the balance budget proposal to start per Evans request. Who would like to start? Great. So, we can leave. [laughter] [clears throat] We're all done. Nobody. [snorts] I'll go. I have something to say. Okay, Mark. Thank you. I was on the losing end of the 5 to4 vote last night on seeking a one-year um what we'll call a micro override uh to fund the cuts for the school department. I wasn't comfortable with the cuts. Jay came in last night and I thought he gave a phenomenal proposal and a phenomenal uh recommendation and and and budget presentation to the finance committee last night [snorts] that showed that the Grafton school department is a phenomenal school department that does a great job with very little funding and it's been very little funding for many years and you know three of my kids are uh a product of the Grafton school department. One is a manager, another is a a um a uh physician's assistant at the children's hospital uh children's hospital in Boston. And another one is on the deans list every semester as a criminal justice major at West State. They wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for the Grafton school department. And anytime we make a reduction in that, I think it hurts the future of the children. So last night, I made a motion to the finance committee and they they voted it down. Um, and because the the plan was that we do a my recommendation was we do a small override and then we immediately start planning for fiscal year 27 so that we don't we're not sitting here on March 20th next year trying to figure out what the budget is going to be for

next year. We need to start planning earlier. One of the things that I think we can do is look at the budgets each year on a case-byase basis. At the select board meeting on Tuesday when I was watching it, people were talking about the impact of an override, a multi-year override. And somebody said something about $1,300 over that time that somebody's tax bill was going to go plus the normal increases. And that's a very daunting task. I don't think we should continue looking at multi-year overrides. I think we should look at each year on a case-byase basis and talk about what I call a micro override each year if it's necessary. this year, given the fact of what happened with the with the with the budget, you saw great innovation from both Evan and Jay trying to balance the budget. Evan came up with a great proposal to fund uh the the bag fees and to try to take $600,000 out of the municipal budget to try to continue to move on. Jay continued a program to to generate some revenue with the medical issue that that that he brought up. Every year we can look at the budget and make those decisions and decide how we want to move forward with the budget. And if we need a small micro override in a particular year, we can do that. A a $1,300 increase is I think you, [snorts] Mr. Daffany, said over over five years is a daunting increase. Every year, if we sit down and we start the budget process early and we look at um things that come up and how we can address those, innovation comes up and if we need a small override in a particular year, I think we can do that. I don't want to hear about override fatigue or or whatever. It could be a micro override, a small amount that can be used to fund the budget. Jay and Evan are phenomenal administrators. You saw that this year when they came up with ideas to try to balance the budget. I think that's the type of thing that we have to do every year. If we didn't have an 18% increase in health insurance this year, I don't think we'd be in the position we are in right now. I think an override should be asked because of a micro override should be asked because of the fact that we got hit with an 18%

increase in health insurance in one year. And we should look at each year, look at a subject matter each year and determine whether or not the voters should be asked to take a look and fund something that is extraordinary and out of the out of the normal [snorts] realm. I'm I'm against the cuts in the school department. I know I lost my vote last night 5 to four and I respect the finance committee. It's a great board, but I really think we need to reconsider. Having a a 500 person organization with no HR department. Cutting out um cutting out the uh the funding for maintenance is ridiculous. Having five people take care of 600,000 square feet of space is not good. I don't think it makes sense. I really would urge the select board to consider a micro override in fiscal year 26 to fund those cuts so we're not cutting on top of the recommendations that Evan uh made with regards to the um to the trash fees. And I think that's the what we should do moving forward. That's my two cents. Thank you for listening. Okay. Anybody else? Madam Chair, [cough and clears throat] I do have a question about about this proposal. I mean, on its on its face, I'm I'm okay with it. But specifically to Dr. Cummings, um, and and kind of dubtailing off what Mark said, so we know that our school buildings are are maintenance dependent. Um, and and dropping two people overall, you know, over this year and next year seems like a lot. Um, issues like roof repair, uh, HVAC, things like that have have definitely cut into our budget at times. you know, we had to use some onetime funds for those in the past. Um, how how much of of kind of those types of issues fall under the purview of of daily maintenance and things like that? Uh, good question. Tough to answer. Um, significant HVAC andor roofing issues.

We contract out for that. Um what we have had this past year with a leave we've had a team of five and we've been functioning fairly well. Obviously of course we we don't want to reduce by 609,000. What that plan before you I expect it assuming the 609 doesn't change the the actual contents very well might. I mean we're it's March we haven't scheduled like all of the schools. We need to look at staffing. we need to see where we land with enrollment. I mean, kids, you know, it's just the way it works. They're going to keep moving in and what grades, etc. So, there's there's always a lot of movement. I'm not married to that plan, but that does reflect my best thinking as of mid-March. Okay. Um, we would make that move and I think we'd be okay. Okay. Does that answer the question? It does. It does. you know, just elaborating a little further, I guess, on it and, you know, probably down the line when we discuss other options. Um, you know, we just the the select board just created the municipal uh facility assessment committee. You know, the facilities are are something that we're I think trying to take better care of and and you know, do more of that routine maintenance so that we're not hit with those larger bills at a time. Oh, yes. I I just wanted to make sure that you know, and our team has been, especially over the past two years, rededicated to that ongoing maintenance. We've got the fundamental issue that's nobody's fault that we have four very old buildings with two that just have horrendous roofs. Um, that's that's a real problem for us. Um, I did want to make one thing clear that uh some people I believe I had some questions about this think that we have that maintenance team of five in total and then we have about 20 custodians as well. Some people do think the custodian the they're all five guys you know cleaning up vomit emptying

trash and doing HVAC. It's two different groups. Okay. Thank you Madam Chair information. Yeah. And just so I'm clear on what we're talking about and voting on based on what Evans said, I thought we were voting on the level budget, whether we agreed that that level budget was what we wanted to be and then secondarily we would talk about whether we wanted to vote or support an override or something else or not. I know that the two comments have been about the override, so I wasn't sure if that was on topic for what we were about to vote on. I think we're finding it difficult to separate the two. Okay. Um, and to be clear, I don't think we're voting on anything. Okay. So, just just so everybody's aware, I think it's just a discussion. So, we're we're trying to keep the discussion focused on the balance budget proposal. Um, and so far we're one and a half. If I can if I can clarify my comment. No, it's not your turn. Dan's next. Uh so I [snorts] think the um the issue is if you unless you agree with this proposal, you need to if you disagree with the cuts, you need to say where you think the revenue is going to come from. And that's I think where the the idea of some kind of override comes in. Thank you for clarifying my proposal. [clears throat] You wouldn't let me do it. So thank you. And with that said, uh I I also uh [clears throat] feel strongly uh against doing any kind of cuts for the schools. Um I'm kind of on the the other side of the schools from uh from Mark. I have a seven-year-old and a two-year-old and uh we're I'm going to need 16 years of Grafton Public Schools to get my youngest through. Um, I first I've heard of uh Mark's uh every year micro override idea, so I'm not sure how I

feel about that. Uh, but um I for for this year uh I just really don't want to see uh cuts that are happening. It and it feels like it's because we're at this point so late in the budget cycle. Um I I think we really should put something to the voters to let the voters decide and if whether it's one year or or three or five or two or four and whatever number and if voters vote that down then what has been proposed could be the backup plan. Um and then we come back with another idea next year. Um, yeah, Mr. Mark. So, just a procedural question. The last two times that we have done an override, we've voted on a balanced budget at town meeting and then the very next article was an additional appropriation contingent upon successful passage of an override. Uh, my understanding is that is the way it has to be done. So either whatever way we do it, we have to balance within the current levy limit first and then with some cuts somewhere and then we can restore those cuts in the very next article if it where so no matter what what it is we decide to do, we need that baseline first. Is that accurate, Evan? That's a good point. Okay, thank you. [clears throat] Are you are you trying to Okay. Sorry. You're like right in my blind spot. So if you need to talk, please speak up. Don't you worry. You'll miss her. Mr. Ding, I saw you first. [snorts]

All right. So, I guess where I'm coming from, I've always been a kind of proponent of of a good balance. I think we need a balance of funding the schools to the best of our ability and um a balance of of how much burden we continue to put on the taxpayers and going back and asking them for not a normal increase but an additional increase. Um, and I think of of that and it's, you know, part of the process, right? We're asking people for more money all the time and it's it's difficult. Um, so my question is kind of to Evan is the the plan that you presented the 600,000 from the pay as you throw a bag fees, right? So, we had talked about that the other night about potentially doing that and then uh having to commit [clears throat] to 2027 implementing that program, right? Where we would the bag fees would go from 12 to $20 for the large and from 8 to 14 for the small, right? So, we would if we took 600,000 out of this enterprise account that we would have to replenish that next year with with the M we would have to commit to doing that, right? So, you wouldn't be doing anything with trash fees in fiscal 26. They would remain exactly where they're scheduled to be. Um, [snorts] we just need to have a commitment that for fiscal 27, we're going to review the trash program in the town of Grafton. And whether that is based solely on we're going to remain as pay as you throw, but we're going to increase the bag fees to cover the cost of the service. Um, or we're going to look at a totally different model. um maybe with some automation, maybe that saves us some money in an RFP process. We don't know. But we need to have the plan in place um so that when we use our one-time revenue, uh we can clearly demonstrate to S&P and Moody's that we we yes, we use some onetime revenue, but

we had a plan of how we're going to fill that hole moving forward. So, it for me it's a little uncomfortable voting for something this year that is a year away, right? We don't know what that year is going to bring. Is there another bucket that we could pull that 600,000? Because once we pull that lever, we can't unpull that lever, right? We're going to have to do something. And we the residents pay for the disposal, right? We pay for the trucking out of our tax revenue that we all pay, right? Or vice versa, right? I think how it works. I think we pay the tipping fee, right? So once we pull that other lever, that's it, [snorts] right? and we will be paying uh for all of our trash trucking and disposal probably forever. So in lie of pulling that lever is there a bucket we can pull the 600 out of so we don't have to commit to doing away with or modifying pay to throw next year um you know one time you know whether it's out of stabilization or if it's there not if you want to maintain your current bond rating. So if you take money out of stabilization without uh a plan to pay both pay that money back and to um create a system by where you don't need to use that stabilization again then that goes against you when you get your next bond rating um which we will be going out to bond in the next two fiscal years. Um, so the only way to look at using either stabilization or free cash for a one-time operating expense would be to have that plan in place. Um, I wouldn't uh I wouldn't propose it otherwise and I wouldn't um personally recommend anybody to go down that road. You really need to have a plan. Point of clarification on what he's saying if I may. So you're saying if we don't go forward with the bag program, then the actual cut that you would have to put into place for a balanced budget

next year if we didn't want to affect the bond rating is 1.2 million. Yeah. Thereabouts. Yes. Next. She was she was I madam chair I would just like to say and I I think it was not really recognized last meeting that I [snorts] I do support the superintendent which is a shocking statement for anybody who's ever seen a meeting of me and the superintendent to be making and in agreement with this balanced budget approach approach. As Mr. Dolph was just stating, I think that it's a good idea because next year we don't know what's going to happen right now as far as state funding, federal funding, local funding. It's all up in the air. So, we would have a better sense next year going into it as to what it is that we have. And to Mr. Kusha's point, I'm not comfortable with the idea of going to the taxpayers and asking for an override with the thought of having a safety net of saying, well, if we don't get it, we can do this. Because to me, that seems like we're then undermining the voters because if they said they didn't want it, then they didn't want it. Like that's the end. It it should be one or the other. Talk about the cuts. the the no. If we go to the taxpayers and we say we want 1.5 million and we don't get it and then we use this reduction plan as a safety net say like we would do it anyway. Is that what you were saying? That's how you have to do it. You have to balance the budget. We would have to balance the budget. We But but then increasing trash fees and all those other things. We can't do that. We would have to take the 1.5 million out of the schools, I would think. Correct. That's not the plan. That's not the plan. The I think to Mr. Mar's point, both of

those budgets would be voted on at time, right? Okay. So, we can actually do what they're talking about. All right. Well, I just I feel that we should support the superintendent and um the town administrator in what they're they're stating. They they have been working endlessly on this and we have to put some trust in the professionals for which we have given our trust to. So I'm in support of that. Okay. And Marie, thank you, Madam Chair. And at the risk of repeating myself, I just want to offer that I have been talking to Evan about the budget for the entire year that I've been the chair. I've been looking at the budget for the entire three years that I've been on the select board. Um, additionally, I've been talking to our town administrator about looking at things at more creative ways to get to zero for at least the last 6 months. Um, so there has been certainly leadership at the select board level in that regards. Um, I am in support of this plan. Again, talked to Evan a lot about this. I think it demonstrates flexibility on both sides in terms of town funds and school funds. I'm not meaning to separate those. It's one big box, but everybody is showing some flexibility here. We were able to find an additional program to bring in a couple hundred,000. We were able to find some money elsewhere. And so for me, it demonstrates to the taxpayers, the people who are reaching out to me that we all or the two departments, the all of our departments dug deep to get here to pre to present a balanced budget for this year or a zero net budget. And then if I have to go to those people next year with an override, whatever that number may be to backfill this year for additional funds. As I alluded to the other the other night, we don't know

what's going to happen in our town state and federally. Um so it might be a very different nut next year. So for me to wait, these two gentlemen were able to put something together that makes sense to me that we can present to the voters in May at a balanced budget. Um, we did our due diligence. All right. I feel like I did my due diligence certainly and I think most people in this room have as well. Um, and that gives us credibility next year to dig deep to look into this to meet more frequently. I'm going to pour over the school budget as I haven't you know previously um and come back with the right number and whatever that is one year, five year. I mean for me the notion of of one year at a time doesn't make sense. I've not seen that, you know, in terms of how municipalities run. Um I would much rather come back with the nut and the the backup data. Sorry if I'm going over um just to support that nut. Thank you. Still have 45 seconds. Well, then good job. [laughter] Okay, I had Leora next. Thank you. Um so I really appreciate having heard from members of the select board, members of the finance committee who don't want to see these cuts at all. Um I do feel um like my colleague Christy that I do trust um Dr. Cummings in terms of his feeling that we can make these cuts work. Um what I'd like to propose we think about and I'm now sort of going off topic is that we combine and unite the cuts with the five-year $5 million override because what we can say to the taxpayers is the nut we needed was nine. But we kind of took a look. We cut things back and we were able to reduce the ask by 45%. And I think that's shows, you know, a it's an easier number for people to deal with. It gives us five years [snorts] and it's shows

what Ann Marie was talking about, which is sort of a serious a sense and a spirit of compromise. So, I just kind of would love people to react to that. Quick question before I call on somebody. Did you say five years or five million or both? Both. Thank you. Next, Mr. Pusher. Uh, so [clears throat] just to clarify, the finance committee's uh recommendations were to uh to do this um the balanced budget uh that's presented and then to uh beginning next year uh basically undo those cuts and and bring that funding back. So doing that what you just proposed would would not accomplish that, right? That it could. I mean, well, if it were we've tal and should I be answering him, Madam Chair? Not really. [laughter] But he did ask you a question, so I'll allow it. Um, so I think we've all kind of said we don't know what's going to happen, right? There might be more um revenue that comes in from the medically fragile program, let's say, or you know, things that come into town. We just we don't know how state funding formulas. I don't think replacing those people are off the table or replacing those cuts are off the table with this approach. I just think it's a it gives us So I I hear what you're saying. I we're not getting a $9 million override. I just don't think we are. Well, if we don't put it on the ballot, we're not. I I think a lot of people in town want that. And to not let voters uh have that that decision I think is uh well it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because then voters do not have the option to do that.

Um I uh I will not support any plan that doesn't include a commitment to bring back those cuts. Um, it's to me that's just a it's a permanent step down in the quality of Grafton schools that that I don't support and I I really don't think that the majority of Grafton residents would support that. A lot of us came to Grafton because there are strong schools here. That's what people want in this town. And not only would uh letting our schools deteriorate completely change the character of the town by [snorts] driving people out, by lowering uh property values. It's also it's public schools are a public good. We're all as as Mark was saying listing what his uh his kids are doing. These are things that are good for all of us to have well-educated people doing these things. And it it's not just parents who want strong schools. I I really think that there is support in this town for a full uh level services override. Can I just put money? I'm looking around. Okay. Last year, correct me if I'm [clears throat] wrong, Jay, you used $1.2 million of onetime revenues with the hope that it would be replenished this year. We're not replenishing it this year. So any idea or any thought that we're going to replace $600,000 worth of cuts next year, I think is a fool's errand. I don't think it's going to happen. Once you reduce the budget to where you're going to reduce the budget this year, you're not going to get that money back. So if the select board is comfortable that a cut of $600,000 in the school budget and 600,000 in trash fees is the way to go. You're not going to put that $600,000 back in because next year's projected reduction, next year's projected deficit is about a

million dollars. So now you'd have to make $1.6 million up next year. And I don't see that happening. Once you cut the budget, you're not going to get it back. That's just the way it is. Or if you're going to get it back, it's going to be years from now. So I I I respect what you said, but I don't think it's going to happen. May I say one? No. Okay. Fair. [snorts] Anybody who hasn't spoken yet who wants to speak now. So at the end, that means you and I can't talk anymore. Okay. You're cut off. Shut off those mics. [laughter] I had Ann Marie and then Leora. If no one else is going to Let's take my remaining 45 seconds. [laughter] No, no, it's it's over. It's okay. Um I just disagree wholeheartedly. I think if anything what going through this has done certainly for everyone at this table and you have new board members right over the last between 5 years ago and now um in addition to people in this room and folks who have kids in schools and folks who don't, we see what what this is. We understand I I shouldn't say we. I understand what these cuts look like. I've been pouring over them as well. Um I've had kids in the school. I have a teacher as a daughter. Uh so just so you know, I I disagree wholeheartedly. I don't think that that has to be the case that we just go through this. May comes and we say, "Okay, on onward and upward." It's the role of all of us here um the select board and the rest of us to make sure that we are talking to our superintendent and to our town administrator and that we ensure that if we are going for an override next year that it's going to be what we need including this year, last year, whatever it looks like. But what we will what we will have is a year of data information and and doing this so that we are all more informed. Leora, go ahead. Kyle hasn't spoken. Oh, you had I did not see him. Sorry. Go ahead. Um, no, piggybacking off that, I totally agree. I think it's going to take, seems right now we're very divided. I think it's going to take all

of us in support of whatever solution we have to make this, you know, possible and something that that the town can support. I've been doing a lot of talking from uh past couple weeks and especially over the past few days. Um, you know, I know that my colleagues don't want to admit that there's override fatigue, but there is override fatigue. So, I'm very cautious of a a one-year and then a multi-year right after the one year. Um, I also have been hearing in the chats that people are finding it difficult to support an override that neither the superintendent or the town administrator currently support. And there's also that narrative out there as well. Um, so I just I'm very nervous about doing a one-year override and then asking going back and asking for more. I, you know, full support of the schools. I think that we, you know, do need to look in the future of re getting those cuts back. Um, but I'm nervous right now to do two overrides in a row. Thank you. I don't know if I could Who did I I think I have Leor. Okay. And then you Nobody else. and then you bet. Okay. Okay. So, I want to be clear. I would love the N I would love a $15 million override and do more in the schools, right? Um but there comes a time for pragmatism and I feel like a a middle ground is better than nothing in some ways. And we can and things shift, right? we may, you know, change the enrollment of special students that require special ed services and then resources that are there might be freed up for us to do other things and and bring folks back. Um, so I want to be clear that the my thinking isn't that the schools can make do with less at all. I'm just trying to find a pragmatic way to move forward where the schools [clears throat] give something and the taxpayers understand that we understand that we're asking a lot. um as we ask for a lot.

[snorts] Mr. Alton, um thank you, Miss Mar. Um I'd like to reserve a bunch of time for future discussion. Um but I think um understanding that we have a a mechanical budget process that we need to fulfill um and in appreciation of the work that our superintendent and town administrator have done. Um, I think we should, um, but as an individual select board member, um, [snorts] I want to just encourage the select board to move forward with this, um, plan. [clears throat] Um, so I'm going to just stop there and say I support the balance budget plan that Evan has asked for us to, um, pass tonight so that we have that option. Um, and I'd like to talk about other options after that. But in order to advance that initiative, um, I I'm I'm good on that. Anybody else on the balance budget? Sorry. [snorts] No, I said same. Yeah. Um I've heard it said if it's not an improvement over silence, you don't have to say anything. So I've heard some things here tonight that I agree with. Marie Leora, you heard me say, Christie, you've heard me say this the other night that um I think Laura what what we're talking about is the threading the needle of compromise for the least worst option. None of this is easy and it's it takes a lot of forethought and I also agree and Marie that a lot of time and diligence and effort was put into working with both Jay, Dr. Cummings and Evan to scrutinize the budget together uh in in the best most responsible and respectful way. I'll speak for myself. I know I've done that for sure and I do support this plan. Is there anybody else wants to talk before Dan goes for round three? Not that you're counting.

Well, um I'm writing notes. Angelina hasn't spoken yet, so I'm going to let Angelina go. I just to address the $5 million. I feel like that's a very soft number at this point. And I think we talked about it a little bit last night and I feel like if we get through this year with a balanced budget and cuts that the school department is comfortable with and the town is comfortable with keeps our bond rating because I wanted to take it out of free cash and I was told we can't do that. Um so I think if we can get through and then we can solidify what we need whether we want to go for three years or five years if if that's necessary and kind of look at what the actual funding is and all of the metrics that are controlling this that we don't have a handle on. I mean you you hear uh Jay saying that the budget is changing like as we speak. You know things are changing. kids are coming in and they're going and so it's a very fluid situation always, but to try to look out five years from right now feels like something we're not ready to do. It feels like it would be irresponsible. As much as I I understand what you're saying and I think, you know, just having the funding would be great, but what if it's not enough, right? Then we're in trouble. So, I don't want to put us in that situation. Let me pause the discussion for just a minute. Evan, have you heard what you need? [cough] Um, it's it sounds to me, and I could be overly synthesizing, but it sounds to me like the majority of the members of the select board are in favor of the balanced budget that you have presented. Is that fair to say? I can make a motion. I don't I don't know if you need to make a motion tonight or not, but but if if that's a you don't uh you don't have to. So, we can um as long as we have this uh you know straw pole agreement that

this is how superintendent and I are to move forward. Uh we can start drafting language. The the the key part is that the board will have to vote to put the creation of an enterprise fund on the warrant. And so as long as you know we have we have that fall into place then we're we're in good shape. I want to hear that tonight. I want to hear a vote from the board directing you to do that. Saying that we have a a straw poll. [snorts] I want it on the record that they're going to put the bag fees on the and and do that because otherwise your plan doesn't work. Your plan is counting on that vote. They need to take a mo they need to have a motion tonight in my opinion and direct you to do that. So the leadership if I sorry just a question for Evan um [snorts] could you have more information at our 41 meeting relative to the enterprise fund just so we can just give us more information about what that looks like and how that Okay. Yeah. And Mark, that's not your decision. You can ask for that. But well, that's not Well, that's not how you just said. Okay. All right. Hi. Hi, everybody. We're still talking. We're not going to talk to each other. And Marie, it seems to me as the chair of the select board, um, that we are fine. We can move on. That was all I was looking for. Thanks. Okay. So, the next part of the discussion is on the future and possible overrides. Mr. Mark. So, one procedural question on that. I believe we talked last night about stabilization versus free cash having different voting requirements. Um, would it if we do 600,000 out of stabilization, is that a separate warrant article or is that or do we do two/3s for the whole budget? I I honestly haven't gotten that far since we talked about it last night. I'm of two minds um of that. one is the free cash is obviously the the lowest uh

barrier and would make the whole budget vote just 150, you know, one majority vote. Um, but I did put uh it out to our financial advisor just to make sure I've done my due diligence on the use of free cash as opposed to stabilization. Thank you. So, Angelina, do they both affect the bond rating? Yes. And what I'm trying to clarify um because honestly I don't know the answer to this 100%. I have what I believe is the correct answer. Um but I want to ensure that the use of free cash uh and the use of stabilization for one-time expenses in an emergency circumstance look the same to the bond rating company. So that's that's all that's all I'm looking for. Um the the MGL around use of stabilization funds is very clear as far as what the the three prongs are. Um free cash to me feels softer and I didn't see a DLS bulletin on that uh or a DR directive. So I just want to make sure I haven't overlooked something and and put us in a situation we don't want to be in. So Okay, Mr. D. No, you mean Oh, I'm so sorry. Was that my peripheral vision is so bad? Matt, go ahead. I'm going to look directly at you now. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so, um, I thought we were going to have a motion. Um, and we were going to have some discussion. So, that's why I held some of my comments, but if we're not going to do that, um, I'd like to raise a couple of concerns that I have. Um, the balance budget is not my favorite. It's not my best option on the table. Um I understand that we have to have one which is why I'm expressing my support for it. Um I'm really concerned about the schools.

Um they have used all of their revolver funds. So they have no reserve. There's no when they run into things midy year, there's nowhere for them to go. And it just makes me uncomfortable. It makes me very uncomfortable that if Jay runs into something that [clears throat] he doesn't have anywhere to go because that money has been spent. I understand why it was, but I really don't like uh the schools operating without a net uh without any kind of financial cushion. I have very deep concerns about that. Um my other concern about this um is we need a clear um expression of support from all the select board members on our parts the commitment that Evan asked us for um to support this budget. Um and I'm concerned that uh we don't have that at the moment. Uh we've had some early discussion about the bag fees, but I don't feel like we have clarity on whether the select board is committed to that and I think that's an important piece. Um I also have some concerns about this plan in terms of our preparation for next year and the moving parts that everybody continues to talk about. Those [snorts] parts aren't going to stop moving. Um, I I've I've worked really hard this budget cycle to try to find out where that like really short window is where we can like feel like we have what we need to put really straightforward solid options that we can get behind. And it's been really really difficult and I just don't have a lot of faith that we're going to have that magically happen next year. So,

I I have a lot of difficulties with this with this balanced budget. If this is really like the the the default plan, um I'd love to see some more cushion um for the schools, even if it's just a little bit, a couple of positions. um something to to fall back on because this is just you know we went from really thin this year to I don't even know what we're talking about next year for [clears throat] one little thing happens and we end up with gaps in service somewhere and I don't know where they might be but that's the that's the that's what this budget does for the school system and I just I really don't like that. It's makes me very uncomfortable. So, um, at at a minimum, I'd like to hear from the select board that we support the plan to make the, you know, trash collection fully funded and not from the budget. Just that would make me feel a little bit better. Um, and I don't know if there's any support for adding a little bit of additional cushion to the schools, but I think they need it. I I really just a couple of positions and I don't know what the numbers would be for that, but I I just have a really hard time imagining that we're not going to run into anything next year where we're not going to need some a little bit of reserve funding. And I guess that's kind of where I'm at. Mr. Sorry, and then Mr. Mark. No, because I saw you both at the same time. Madam Chair, I have a question for clarification and it might actually be for Kathleen Lingerini. Kathleen, so the revolver fund that we used up with the 1.2 million, correct? That grows through the transportation fees mainly. Am I right? And no, what what does it grow through?

Um, no. [laughter] It's okay. Um, the the two biggest drivers are school choice and circuit breaker. Okay. By far. Okay. All right. Thank you. You got Mr. M. Just a clarification. The $600,000 from stabilization or free cash is in lie of increasing bag fees this year. That correct? Correct. If we were increasing bag fees this year, we would not be touching the free cash or stabilization. So that that is something for next year. So there there we're talking about bag fees in the future, but that is not on the table for an increase at this point. We Yes. it. Well, but the the whole premise of protecting our bond rating is that we have a replenishment source. So, those have to go together. Yes. For next year, it's not this year. We're not replenishing it. It's in the next fiscal year. Yep. But we still I still we still need that clear statement from the select board that Yep. We're we're going to do that. Yeah. And I think Sorry. Go ahead, [snorts] Madam Chair. I'm just gonna start talking. Um, no. I I I would think that in in my opinion and the way that I I believe this is looked at when they're reviewing our warrants, the the act of the select board, both supporting the budget option as a whole, which talks about creating the um municipal solid waste enterprise fund for fiscal 27 um meets that criteria. But I also think that putting um the st creation of a stabilization account on this warrant for May is the real in my opinion that's the demonstration that that's the direction that we're we're headed. That makes sense. Emry, thank you. If I might. So this will come to the select board, just the select board at an upcoming meeting. Well, you're going to Yeah, you're going

to open the warrant on April 1st and you're going to close it on the 15th, right? So in in yeah that's when that's when you would uh kind of solidify I yes oh no I'm sorry I'm just going to chair this whole thing if that's all right with you [laughter] um uh no so so in short I I'm personally ready to just move forward with the budget proposal that Jay and I have put together as far as the creation of the warrant and the acknowledgement that we're not going to come back next week and ask for a different plan. Right. Um and then on the 15th is when the board is going to vote very specifically on the warrant itself, which would include the municipal stabilization fund and the budget that we have been discussing the entire time and everything else beyond that is is a subsequent conversation. Andy, you wanted to talk. [laughter] Go ahead. [snorts] Thank you. [clears throat] Um, yeah, I I don't you we talk about not waiting on these things. Um, I don't I don't see why the select board wouldn't wouldn't vote on this tonight. We may need additional information on the specifics of that enterprise account, but I don't see why we can't vote tonight to support the reduction budget and the addition of the enterprise account to the town meeting warrant at this point. So the the the um enterprise fund is going on the warrant for this year. Yes. Okay. Yep. Sorry, Mr. Der. So Evan, just another question on that. So So for next when we get to this next year, there's going to be options, right, on on how we how we do this. Uh you mean it's how we handle the trash program? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you have I mean you have to reimburse the funds,

right? Right. We have one year to figure out how to make the trash program sustain self- sustaining. And again, there's a variety of different ways that that can happen. Um, and I think that at least my intent is to, you know, ask the board to either create a new group. We talked about this a couple weeks back, either create a new group that looks at our trash and recycling plan that we have currently um or you know, in my office and then we report to the board. How whatever that looks like, it's really the board's discretion to to do that. um would bring you know by January to the board what the change would need to be for the municipal solid waste to be fully self- sustaining on July 1 of of uh fiscal 27 Christie Madam Chair sorry I'm going back to the revolver thing I'm just trying to provide some reassurance to Mr. Austin and I don't have muffins to give you so um I have a question Dr. after coming. So we used the revolver and it had built up up through FY24. So in FY25 you used it all but the money that we gained this year in FY25 we're rebuilding that. Correct. And this plan is not continuing to use that revolver. It's allowing that cushion to continue to grow. Am I correct? Correct. Like if we'd be in great shape if we didn't have things come up that unfortunately come up weekly. be it [snorts] uh you know somebody gets sick and has to be out for half a year and we have to replace and them with staffing. Um roof issues, anything above and beyond. We've had two furnace and boiler issues this year. Um so that's we we don't have a line for I wish we did in the budget for when things go sideways. We don't have

it. We've historically used revolvers to pay for um in the general sense about half going to salaries and then half to bail us out essentially. Um right now we're we're struggling. We we just haven't bounced back yet. And maybe we will if everything breaks right next year. As it stands, as of two days ago, we have $90,000 [snorts] in school choice, which might seem like a lot, but if that was a $100 or $100,000 household, that would be the equivalent of 200 bucks for 14 and a half weeks. So, obviously, we're we're worried about that, right? But we're this plan will allow that revolver to keep growing. We're not as much as we can. Cor Oh, 100%. and maybe everything will just work beautifully and you know that be one of those years what I think Mr. Offen was getting at was building in some additional cushion. One thought I had and I'm sure we're all having these thoughts like as you're as I was driving here tonight a thought was not to be decided tonight but something that could be thought about maybe a decade ago. Those who were here might remember that the town voted to put up to I think it was 200,000 in an account that could be used when we went above and beyond in special education tuition. Um that over the years over the decade it's down to I believe 50,000 now. So if we replenish that 200 gives us that 150,000 just if things go sideways that's the equivalent of about two salaries. Um, and without a doubt, we're going to have unforeseen tuition needs. That just happens. So, it's just a thought. But in terms of at least a little bit of cushion, it's 200,000 in a $45 million budget, but something. Okay. Can I ask for that? No. I'm going to turn the meeting over to Anie briefly. Symbolic. Yeah. So, um, did you want to make a

motion relative to the Yeah, I'll I'll make a motion. Um, so I make a motion that we support the um balanced budget as presented um with um I guess attached support for creating the enterprise fund uh in a warrant article in the Springtown meeting. Second. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I Anyone opposed? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Matt. All right, I saw Angelina and then Mark. I don't know if this question is going to make sense, [snorts] but would the town be able to appropriate free cash to the revolvers or does it not work that way? like through town meeting if we we're saying that the school needs a cushion and we're in a decent freecast position which I think we are would we be able to move some money over there. [laughter] Uh I can just keep it over here. Thank you. Appreciate that. Um I I think the short answer is yes. We could put that uh we could we could move some one-time money into that account. Um I would just do my due diligence between uh Mary and I to make sure we do it the correct way, but I I don't doesn't raise any red flags for me immediately. So, um it's something that we could certainly explore and discuss. I had Mark. Are you still That was going to be my question. Okay. do a one time transfer to that account. Yeah. Would we do that in the spring or the fall or would it matter? Like would you want to do it in the fall just to get through the budget thing and then or could you wait that long or you want to Yeah, I that that that's good. So that would be my my preference is to get to the fall because we'd have free cash

certified uh again in the fall. Um and while we have a pretty good beat on where we think we're going to be with free cash, um you know, who knows what happens over the summertime. Um, so that would be my my preference, but I I ideally we don't touch it, right? Yeah. May May I ask a question? Can I say? [laughter] Yes, you may. So once Thank you. [clears throat] So I just want to make sure I understand this and you may not know, but I think you do. Once we move that money from free cash into the revolver, it has to be used for special education purposes. Correct. It cannot be pulled back, right? Yeah. That's the what is it? 53E and a halfway, right? Because in the state of Massachusetts, we're going to have a 53E and a half. The the MGL's are crazy. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Do we want to continue discussion or do we want to have some public participation? What do you guys think? Oh, yeah. Go ahead, Laura. I haven't. I know. Shocking. Um, I want to thank everybody um that that got together. Um, and I know everybody has stated how much they've looked at budgets and and absolutely I appreciate everybody doing their job and I kind of like this code sharing up here. It's very fun. Um, I have some concerns about um, also I appreciate people really speaking up and advocating to fully fund our schools um, even above and beyond. Um, if that's the case, I'd love to see hear some ideas of where maybe the additional money can come from. So, we can't as school committee members, we we don't get that privilege. So, it's values if there's something that maybe I know we talked about it last night. The uh finance committee had great questions and somebody asked and and they talked about how slim the rest of the town is. And I've always um believed in that. I

always used the we have a small budget. um we get a big piece of the pie, but it's still a small table talk pie that we get. I love that analogy. Um so I'd love to hear some ideas on on where some of that money could come from. Um I'm very nervous about a one-year override. Um for uh many reasons, our um next year is the the numbers I'm really concerned about. And as much as I appreciate everybody saying we're going to get right to work, I've also been at this a long time. And it feels like every time we start, we have to start over. We have to take weeks to re-educate people why we need um an override. People in this room, people in the town, people forget so quickly because they're not living it daytoday like we are. And I understand that. So I would I am a communications person. I want a communications plan from day one. A lot of our problems I I would say if we added a communications full-time position in this town advocating for that, we could we could do um but obviously that's not in the budget. Um so I I have concerns that we're going to be rolling up our sleeves day one and doing this problem. Um like what Mr. often said, you know, this took seemed like it took a really long time and we knew in September. I knew we knew in September we were having this and it wasn't because of anybody's like we it's just and things come up, right? You're you guys are dealing with with weird smells from businesses and you have to fight that battle like we all have different battles that we have to fight and then it's like we get together. So, I if we I loved the finance committee's um ask for that, but I really want to see a plan on on how we're going to accomplish this. If we can't get it done this year and we do the compromise budget, which I do trust in our leaders, Dr. Cummings has made a great district probably too good doing too much with too little. And it's in thanks to our

amazing staff and our amazing families and our amazing superintendent and our okay school committee. But [laughter] because of that, um, I just I don't want to start over. I And we don't know who's going to even be on these boards. Like, I love you all, but we don't know what's going to happen yet. And if if I have to sit here again and hear Dr. Cummings explain how we are 11th from the bottom and lowest funding, [snorts] you'll know what happens. You all know me very well. So, thank you for listening, Mr. Bar. So, I have one question [snorts] for Evan. We um Mark proposed uh last night a $600,000 override. Do you have an idea of what that would have be for the average uh um taxpayer? And one question that came up online is what what property value do you consider average? Because there was a question about whether it's a mean or median and how that can affect Sure. people's uh so $600,000 [snorts] is $87.61 for the average single family assessed value of 625,767 or the average single family tax bill uh which is $8,723. A house that is uh valued at $250,000 is $35 and a house valued at 1.5 million is roughly $217. Thank you. Let's pretend I did all that in my head. Mr. [snorts] I absolutely believe that. Sounds like me talking [clears throat] is live texting me. So now that we have our our balanced budget, um I do want to [snorts] talk about override options. I think it's a

um I want to respond to the people that have been writing in requesting um options and wanting their own voice heard [snorts] um with a ballot initiative uh for different funding options. I would love to see the schools have some sense of stability over time because right now we are very much um you know we're razor thin for next year and um we're committing to creating a plan. Um but I'd love to give the voters an option uh to vote on. Um we've uh in the past done fiveyear overrides. That's been a successful model for us. Um there is some uncertainty, but there always is. Um I just look at the historical um shortfall that we've had year-over-year, [snorts] and it's about $900,000 if you map it out over the last 10 years. So we're at about $5 million for the five years. That's that's our historical run rate. And um there have been so many board members and actually so many town administrators that have all tried to work on solving the budget problem um in earnest. hard hardworking town administrators trying to solve that problem that haven't. Um, and I I would love to see an option um put on the table to essentially take the budget that that we have this year and roll that forward into a five-year override and and put that on the ballot and give the option to the voters to to vote on it. Um, I think there is some potential for some upside for next year in a couple of areas. It's certainly not something that

I want to count on, but um, there is opportunity there. Um and um but even without including that, if we use that historical run rate, it's just a realistic pragmatic thing to put on the table for voters to vote on that they can give the schools the kind of stability that they should have and they deserve so that we don't have to um I guess to to Laura's point kind of try to do things in a very different way than we have in the past. It's um it's difficult. We we do all have different priorities and um the big changes happen midstream in this budget process and we learn that year after year after year. This is it's like Groundhog Day with the budget and I just every year we're at this stage and it's wicked stressful because there's so many moving parts. Um, that's not going to change next year. So, I don't I don't know. I don't I don't I I don't have a lot of faith that something different is going to happen. So, I think that this is the year to to put an override on and give voters options for that. I think the 5 million is the right number. Um, you know, as we look at the tail end of a five-year override, we're starting to see the school bond drop off. It's not, you know, massive. It's a hundred bucks a household or whatever, but that was a big bond. Um, and so we start to look at kind of a bridge situation into when some of our bond capacity comes off the books and comes off of people's tax bills. Um, it's not perfect. Um, but I I don't like the idea that [snorts] the

the budget that we just approved is the only one that we're going to bring. Um, I really do think that we deserve that the voters deserve to be represented for what they've been asking us to do, which is to give them an option. Um, and I think that that is the option. Um, I think that's the right option for us to to contemplate. And it's a budget which gives the schools the stability and it also um recognizes that both the schools and the towns um are making difficult choices. So this isn't full this isn't fully funded. That would be my option, but I I happen to agree with Leora. That's a big number to to think about and to ask for. Um I think the 5 million is is in line with what we've done in the past. Um, and so I would recommend that uh that the select board think about that option. So that's what I had to say. Mr. Jefferson, thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, I feel like it's probably not surprising that I'm I'm going to agree with Mr. Offen and and try and dovetail off the points that he made. Um, I find the idea of the the one-year micro overrides interesting that that we'd go for that smaller amount, but I I generally find the one-year to be problematic. um it is difficult to get people out for the one year, let alone counting on them to come out next year and do the same thing, which is exactly what we'll need to do. Um because it only gets us through FY26. Um you know, while well-intentioned, we knew this was coming a year ago. So, again, I have a problem with sitting on the budget saying we're okay this year, we have a problem next year, uh but we'll get right to work on it because we had the opportunity to do that this year and and we just didn't. Um, I'm I I you know, so if if we eliminate the ones, that basically leaves you between a three and a five. It's possible that some of these new growth numbers hit and we're in a better place three years from now. But most of these

projects are largely dependent on things that are out of this board and and the TA's and town uh superintendent's control. And those delays can be catastrophic as we've seen. So the five years gives you that little bit of extra runway for th some of these, you know, some of the new growth, some of our larger projects to hopefully come online and start to, you know, offset that budget. Um it is that middle ground option where there's there is a reduction, but we're also, you know, doing our best to continue funding. Um the the you know, we we keep hearing terms like something that that the town can support. I think this is something that, you know, the town can support. And the one thing that it seems like we've all agreed on is that that the residents have a very strong opinion about this. And I think we need to acknowledge that voice and let them use that voice. We put forward the the the balanced budget that we voted on and we give them the option to choose. Thank you, Mr. Kusher. Uh so going back to that voice, what people have been asking for is not some cuts. People have been asking for level services. And I the idea that we're going to do a 5-year override that includes these cuts going for five years, going without an HR person for five years. I this what we heard from the superintendent at the finance committee last night was that [clears throat] these are cuts that students won't feel in their day-to-day lives in this first year but if they continue they will begin to cause problems. I think it's really important that we and please correct me if I if I got that wrong, but we we really need to to fill those back in uh sooner rather than later. Um yeah, that's I I just I feel like the a

little bit of cuts, a little bit of override. I just feel like that's the worst of of all the options. I don't think anybody actually wants that. Um it it feels like it's a it's a mirage of a compromise. What I think the real compromise is is between doing cuts and growing our schools. I there really are a lot of people in town who would like to pay more in taxes and grow what our schools offer and invest more in public education. What I see as the compromise is the level services budget. Christie. Madam Chair, [snorts] I agree with Mr. Kusher. I don't think going for a five-year override at a doing reductions and still going for an override is the way to go at all. I am totally in agreement with that. That's why I personally believe that we hold off for the year. We come back next year and go for the fully funded amount. That's way we're only reducing that for one year versus five years. we go back fully funded and we'll have a better sense of what the state funding is, what the local funding is, what the federal funding is. We'll have a totally better sense. So go back next year with a for the big shebang big number and do it all at once versus taking some now a little bit and wait five years and then try to build back up the school in five years. I don't think that's the option either. I I do want to address something before were it was it you or was it you? It was you. Okay. Before you talk. Um I want to address the the the HR director specifically. Um the school department cannot be without an HR director for 5 years. That is a temporary change. Jay cannot do HR for 5 years. [snorts] That's just 500 employees with everything else he has to do. That's

untenable. So, at the very least, we need that position back in 27. The fact that the fact that he's willing to do this is on top of everything else he does without an assistant superintendent directing traffic every day, twice a day, is unbelievable. Once a day he directs traffic and that's [laughter] once a day he directs traffic, Mrs. Mark, five days a week he's out there. It's at 10 of 7 directing traffic every day. It's all day long [laughter] hill both ways and you know you would be hardressed to find another superintendent in Massachusetts that works as hard as that man and he's going to be doing HR and superintendent any duties that would go to an assistant superintendent. He's also going to be doing them or delegating them to whoever has bandwidth in his office. It's not a big staff up there. People act like we have this huge administrative layer up there. We don't. Take a walk up. Meet the people that work up there. We're we're already moving two down. Correct. We're bumping two people that work up there down or do they not work up in central office? Okay. Well, we don't have a big staff. So, I want to be crystal clear that at the very least we need that position back in 2017. Whatever happens with whatever override um at a bare minimum, bare minimum. We'll need more, but that's that's where, you know, as chair of the school committee, that's where I draw that line. We can't have him working himself to death because we can't find the money for an HR director. All right. Who's next? Mr. often then Mr. Duff. Yeah. So, um when I say um we need to uh respond. Um Dan, most of the uh most of the ask has been give us something to vote on basically. not people haven't talked necessarily about level services, but I hear what you're saying. Um heard what the group

this group has just said. So maybe 5 million is not the number. Um for me, that's a number that I'm pretty comfortable with because historically that's been the the shortfall year-over-year. That's been our actual budgetary experience year after year is that's the shortfall. But it doesn't have to be five million. Um it could be somewhere between five million and nine million. I I just think it's really important that we present an option. So if it's not five million, what is it? That's I guess that's my question to the group. So yeah, maybe we don't need everything. We we can't sustain these cuts in indefinitely, but what's the number? We you know, this group is a has a lot of firepower. we can come up with a number that represents something that the schools would be comfortable with, I think, for five years, and and put it on the ballot. I I don't know why we It seems crazy to me that we're have all of this public outreach saying, "Give us a choice because you're making the choice on our behalf." And that's not what I that's not what I get elected for. I'm here to represent people that are reaching out saying we we want whatever it is that they want and what they want is for us to give them an option at the ballot. So I I think we just have to put our our heads down and figure out what the number is and figure out what the what this the term is. Is it a one year? Is it a three? We've got to bash through and figure that out and put it on the put it on the ballot. That's our jobs. This I don't like kicking this can down the road again yet another year. hoping that we're going to be able to get clarity on the state and federal level. That is that's the mirage. That is never coming. It never ever comes. Super super last minute like a few days

before the budget has to be closed. We'll get some of these numbers trickling in and and then things get solidified. But that's every single year that nothing magic is going to happen next year that is different than this year and every other year. So, I want to see this the people around this table come up with a number and put put something on the on the ballot. We got to do that. Craig, then Angelina, then Laura, and then Rebecca. Okay, Jay. So, are you moonlighting during the day or like this this detail? What is the detail rate for for traffic duties? Like did I see you up in front of the library like working specialize at at one one corner? Not even well. [laughter] No, I didn't. I killed it out there. Um Well, I hope you're getting the rate. No. Yeah, I'm not [laughter] getting I kind of blew it with that. Um I guess for me, we all have a role here. I guess the school committee is here advocating for the schools, right? which is their job, right? And as a member of the select board, um we don't have that luxury. We we can certainly advocate for the schools, but we have to make sure that all 16 departments run run run efficiently to service the residents of Grafton and we also have to represent all the residents of Grafton. you know, I've seen the letters that have come in, people advocating for, you know, for the schools and um and uh but I' I've gotten a lot of calls of people saying, "Please don't let another override come." You know, I had two former school committee members call me in the last week adamantly, do not do this. People that served on the school committee for many, many years. The finance committee like

like us should be representing all residents. And it seems like I hear a lot of, you know, a lot of um override, you know, pro-override discussions, but your job, as you know, is to represent the 20,000 residents in town and to have some type of fiscal responsibility and conserviveness about what we how we spend town money and how much money we ask town residents to to pull up. You know, Dan says we, you know, I know people that they want to pay more taxes. I've never heard that before. Um, out of anybody, no matter what kind of tax it is. Um, there are people that can't afford this. And I I it seems like I'm the only one that's that's talking about the impact to the residents. You know, we may have a neighbor or or something, you know, that that can't afford this increase. Eight the average is $8,000. uh Evan 8,700 and and to just I am just I guess hyper sensitive to I want to see the schools function well but but I we have to be careful how much money we're asking of of people extra money. It's just to me it it's just um you know I like I said the other night there's a lot of my friends parents that are in their 80s that live here that are live on you know very modest incomes and they pay it. So you know to Matt's point we can you know is it our responsibility to put it in front of the voters? I think sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. And that's what we have to decide what the right thing is to do because if town meeting gets stacked and we know how town [snorts] meeting can work, we can stack the deck and get people in and get something passed, right? No matter what it is, could be a new fire truck, could be an override, could be whatever is on

the agenda that we can get people to go to support or not support. Um, but if it does pass, then those people that can't afford it have to pay. And I just want us all to consider [snorts] um that when we decide how much money we're asking people to to contribute. Um, in the finance committee, you have to ask yourself that question, too. How much money are we asking people to dig extra? It's not about having great schools. We all want great schools and we have to do the best we can to do that, but we also have to keep the taxpayer in mind. I'm up next, right? You're not Angelina, you're lucky. [snorts and laughter] And then Laura, so we certainly do keep in mind the tax bill of the people in this town and we talk about that at every meeting where this comes up. Um, I think I want to bring it back to the fact that unclassified went up $1.4 million this year. It is not the school budget that is driving this issue. We have costs as a town. We have to pay for health insurance and pensions and whatever else, Medicare, whatever is in that um unclassified number. 1.4 [snorts] million of the 1.6 6 increase is right there. So this whole it's the schools that need the money isn't accurate. It ended up that the schools took the cut to make up half of it and the town found revenue on the other side. But this isn't a school issue. This is a town issue. We have costs that we can't control that are growing faster than the two and a half% cap plus new growth. So

that's all. Laura, thanks Angelina. I would want to remind just that um it's not just a town meeting vote. I believe it would be a ballot vote. So it doesn't matter if it's stacked or not. And that's an interesting way to look at town government. Um but okay. Um and I do also obviously I'm on school committee and I'm I am advocating for the schools. I also [clears throat] um I think we all know people in this town who who struggle. like volunteer at the food bank. Um we can all we can all agree on that that um and [snorts] some of us at this table struggle. So it's not just our our friends. Um but Craig's comment about uh two former school uh uh school board members calling him did prove my earlier point that we have a lot of trouble communicating that people who have lived this and don't understand. That's that's a concern to me. So thanks for bringing that up. Um, and I wish they would they would outreach to the committee so we could explain more as well. Um, but my original thought was I just um Dr. Cummings has that he's shown it a million times that slide that we did 10 years ago and everybody likes to talk about how they were there. I was also there 10 years ago with that first override. It's 11 years ago. Um, and what somebody looked at and was like, "Wow, if we had actually gone a little bit above, look at where the Grafton schools could have been now." And I remember I was in the audience. I was running for office at the time and I was sitting there and I was listening and there were some people who were there and and and they were, you know, we were doing the same thing. We're trying to find that number, find that number and they did a great job. But now I look back and I'm like, wow, if we had had just a little bit more money, we wouldn't have been having to talk about like cutting French, we would have maybe had a full conversion of of bilingual Spanish from, you know, kindergarten through through high school like Nitmug does down the street. like our kids could be that much ahead. So maybe just when we're thinking about it and and I

do I I really do uh agree in this point with Mr. Dolphin like we there is a middle ground and sometimes you have to hold your nose and compromise to for Amy that was a a Hamilton reference. Um but and so I do get that. So I know like when you're up there and you're fired up why aren't they fighting harder? Like you do have to take everybody into um into respect. And I do sorry Craig but you you addressed Mark earlier and said that wasn't his job and I think that wasn't really your job to tell the finance committee what what their place was like just that felt a little icky. So sorry I know you did it. I did. Yeah. But it was because Mark was kind of pounding on the table saying you know he wanted us to do this. The finance committee is an advisory committee. [snorts] it's really up to us to decide what kind of action we're going to take and it seemed like he was kind of dictating to us what we were going to do or you know and it just didn't seem appropriate for me to to have him say that Rebecca um I was trying to I had I have a question Jay about the $9 million that number came before the $200,000 extra dollars a year. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. So already we're down to 8 million, correct? Over a fiveyear. Okay. Okay. Before the bags and Right. Right. So it's like we're already whittling that number down. And I think we have some solid numbers that we can talk about to whittle that down um and and find a nice middle ground. And I think it does make sense for us to talk about real numbers because we are talking about real numbers. And I wanted to not really piggyback what you just said exactly the things I was going to say earlier about like I loved watching the finance committee's meeting last night. Honestly, it was great. It was you had really good ideas. It felt like you were really talking about it in a way that was meaningful for everyone and I loved that and I loved your recommendations and I also like hate the

fact that I know we want to backfill it and I know we want to start talking earlier and it's like again we've been talking about this since our first meeting like it Dr. Cummings came up with two budgets from day one because we knew we were going to be here and here we are and we're acting like it's surprising or you know like oh if only we had planned better and it's like we're planning better. There is no other way to do it. So we're going to be here again. We're going to have the same conversation. So that's just my my two cents on that. I have Dan and then Kyle and then Skip and then it um [clears throat] I I was I was going to say the where with these uh the revenue that's been added it's it's not actually 9 million anymore. Um I uh but maybe we should be talking about 9 million. I I'm not saying people Craig I'm not saying people want to pay more in taxes and get nothing. That's ridiculous. I'm saying people want more from the government services that they're paying for and [clears throat] you get what you pay for. Some people want more and they want to pay more for it. That's what I'm saying. And there are people in town who want that. Maybe they're not the people who support you draw, but they're out there and I'm hearing from them. I'm one of them and I I think that is something that should be taken seriously by someone on the board who needs to be considering everyone in town. Okay. I'm going to remind everybody, please address your comments through the chair and not to one another. As I was saying, we're all very passionate. I understand. We're all very passionate about this. Um, I'm going to do well I'm going to take comments from Kyle, Skip, Andy, and then I would like to allow the public to participate. Okay. Is that okay with

everybody? Great. Kyle, I'll make mine brief. Um, I agree with Laura and everything that she says. I think there is a comm's problem that currently exists. I think there's a narrative already out there that we are up against. I think that, um, Dr. Dr. Cummings sent a really great slide last night about the five or six things that you know when he's done overrides and advised other schools on overrides that need to be true for an override to be successful and by his evaluation we meet one of them. So I think [snorts] that is a very good I guess guide to go by and I you know supportive that's why I'm supportive of the middle ground budget. Thank you Skip. I'd just like to remind everybody that we would not be here if we didn't get whacked with the increase in the health insurance any more than we would have been here if [cough] the DPU came and said, "Oh, by the way, even though it's way outside the rate review cycle, we're going to drop a 50% rate increase on everybody." And the electric bills for everybody went up. It's the health insurance that went up for everybody. And it's what drove [snorts] us here today or where we are now. It didn't happen in the fall when [snorts] budgets were starting to be put together. It's something that just dropped on us and that's why we're here. Mr. Jefferson. Thank [clears throat] you, Madam Chair. Um, again, I guess I guess piggybacking off of what Mr. Offen said, um, you know, I I I would like to see us get into more alignment. Uh, I feel like that was the the the point of this discussion is is to figure out where we go. And I really [cough] I [clears throat] really want to see an override option on the ballot. Um, you know, as as hooky as it may sound, that the core of all this is democracy and and the charter puts the power in the hands of the people. And I don't believe I don't believe it's on us

to restrict that. Um to the earlier point that uh you know losing an HR um losing all of our HR staff is is uh unsustainable. I I do agree with that. Um, you know, and while I don't want to keep, I guess, fluctuating the line of where, you know, that that that financial line of where we where we draw the limit, um, you know, if if it means going for a 5.1 million override so that we include HR staff, I'm fine with that as opposed to, you know, the five. I think we can make reasonable arguments and and still have some reasonable compromise in there. Um, but I I think this is the place to do that. Okay. So, it is 8:32. We've been at this for an hour and a half. It's a great discussion. Um, I would like to ask, it looks like Will stepped out. So, we'll start with folks here in the room. Um, I'm going to briefly kind of review how the school committee does public comment, even though this isn't really public comment, but just for some structure. Three minutes. Try not to repeat what's already been said. Do not address your comments to any particular individuals. I think that's good. Leora is gonna time for us. So, if you would like to speak, how about we have a show of hands. Who would like to speak? Wow. One, two, three. Okay, got a couple. Who would like to go first? Step up to the podium. You can race. I don't care. Evan, you can't. [laughter] I don't I don't want to be disrespectful and be sitting right. Oh, I see people that are speaking. Oh, good. Step right up, sir. Step right up. So, with school committee public comment, it's a little different from regular public comment. We ask, we don't ask for addresses, but we do ask for affiliation um if you have a child in the district, if you work in the district as opposed to where you live. That's just how we run it. So, go ahead, sir. Feel free to correct me as we go along if I need need to. And forgive me, I'm a

little bit uh under the weather, so I know. But this is an important meeting. My name is WDE Burch. I'm a resident of Grafton. I have four children in Grafton schools. Um I have participated in the parent teacher group. Uh my wife is in fact sitting in the audience as the treasurer and has been for several years. So many of you guys know her. I appreciate the work that's being done by the administration. Um I wanted to speak specifically about the question of putting the override to a vote. Um I myself am finance chair for the Westboroough United Methodist Church. We found ourselves in a similar situation a couple of years ago and extending into this year where we saw a 47% rise in the cost of our insurance, a 46% rise over two years in the cost of our utilities. It sounds like we face many of the same problems, right? Organizations or organizations. We had two options. Uh we could make uh we had sort of done the work to cut our discretionary budgets to the point where uh we really didn't have much room. I think that's been done. Um, so we had the choice. We could make deep cuts which hurt the mission of our organization or we could go to the people that were part of that organization and ask if they cared enough about the mission to support it. We chose to do that. Um, what happened was amazing. You know, for me it was a God moment uh where we were able to cover that pretty significant deficit um because we had people who cared about the mission of our organization. Our mission as a town is to preserve the education um of our most vulnerable residents, the ones that don't have a vote, uh ones that are dependent upon us, and those are our school children. I realize we have many other people in the town um who uh who have needs and I don't I I don't think that we need to ignore them. Um but the people who can speak to their

will are the people. And so I encourage the select board to put this to a vote, put out a reasonable compromise uh override that funds our schools and let the people choose whether that's something that we as a town, as an organization care about or not. I'll be fine with the results. Thank [clears throat] you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I'll let William sit. [snorts] Now's the time for hands on Zoom. We'll go back and forth, but we'll take one more from the gallery first. So, I'll let you get situated. Uh, who would like to go next? Okay. Um, Shantel Kimble. Uh, both of my beautiful daughters went through Grafton schools K through 12. and um I am also now a district employ or a school employee. Um but I actually just had a couple of quick questions that I didn't hear flushed out in the discussion. Um the first is it sounds like the level services budget is contingent on approval of the $600,000 enterprise fund being voted at town meeting. And I'm just wanting to make sure I understand what happens if town meeting says no. Um, and this kind of this whole we can survive with the level the this level of service budget doesn't happen. Um, and then I know we haven't been super concerned about federal funding. Um, but the executive order to dissolve the Department of Education was signed today. And as it stands now, if I remember correctly, it's about a million dollars of our annual budget that comes from the federal government. Um, so for me, like like a I worry about what happens if that hits us this fiscal year and now we're trying to make up that

$1,000 and we haven't gone to the well. Um, but I also worry about what happens if we go for a $5 million override. And now we really need a lot more than that because we've lost the federal funding and we don't have the gap. So I I know that probably doesn't I mean the 600,000 I hope is an easier question to answer. I know that second question probably doesn't make anything easier for anybody and I'm sorry about that. [laughter] I can answer the second part. Somebody else wants to answer the first part. Um the the second part about the federal funding um is that we just heard this on the three of us run a a call with MASC a couple days ago. Um it's it's about as definite as definite can be that the entitlements for fiscal 26 are okay and they're intact. Um, I don't doubt that if somebody wanted to claw back that money, they could, but as of this moment, that money is guaranteed. Um, what happens after that is anybody's guess, and I personally am not super confident that that money won't get clawed back. I can't I can't be confident. Uh, the person who delivered the information to us was pretty confident. Um, but I I don't know. I feel like we're in a we're in a weird situation where anything can happen. Just because you can't do something doesn't mean you can't do something anymore, apparently. Um, and I I hear Snickers, so I know people know what I'm talking about. What about the other half of the question? I think it was what happens uh town meeting says no. Um, so a couple things. One, that's one of the reasons I'd like to see it on the May town meeting so that we can do other diligence if it doesn't work. Um there are some other options that the board can exercise. So the board has control over all fees. So they could not create an enterprise fund and just do it on bag

fees. Um but I think that uh so in short yes town meeting needs to approve any creation of any um enterprise fund. Um okay. Did I answer the question or did I just repeat that? I think you did. Just to clarify. Sorry. So it doesn't pass then the select board still has options. Correct. Okay. Yep. Sorry. I think that goes to the question of whether the $600,000 comes from stabilization and requires a different vote than the 600,000 coming from [snorts] free cash because that is the 600,000 that really matters. The creation of the enterprise fund can happen at a later time. [cough] Yes. Okay. Yep. Okay, good. Do we have any hands on Zoom, William? No remote public comment. Okay, it sounds like they're getting the money. Go ahead. You're all right. All right. Welcome. All right. Um, I want to reiterate like we don't have a financial issue. We have a comm's issue. That is the whole issue. I mean, it's been said, but I really want to like reiterate that. and the financial committee, the FINCOM, I think, had a phen phenomenal discussion last night and made a really smart decision to almost recommend the one-year override. That was like your best possible thinking there between that and not doing it. My concern, of course, is that like if the bag fees don't pass, right, or other things happen, then we're looking at like either we either get cuts or bigger cuts. Those those are the options without the override. Those are the options that we have on the table. So, I would really strongly go for this one-year override from a comm's perspective. Number one, I know we keep saying like it's impossible to pass these overrides all the time. Since 2000 in the state of Massachusetts, there have been 1,575

overrides passed that are $610,000 or less. So, it's not impossible. It's happened 1,500 plus times in the last 25 years and a lot more if you go back further than that. Um, Evan, do I have the number right? $87 a year average for for 600,000 for 600,000. Great. So that's $7.25 per month. That is less than your Netflix increase. So I know that it is more money, but we're it's not like we're the only people who have asked for for increase. It's one extra carton of eggs or it's your Netflix increase. Um I just simply don't believe that the only responsible thing to do with money is to not spend it. Like we could save our $87 here and then lose way more than $1,300 a year when we go to sell our houses. Like our property values will go way less than dropping $1,300 a year on that. I just don't think that it's a responsible thing to do to put the schools in any sort of risk of losing their accredit accreditation going the school of choice. the the the red flag, red alarm situation that Jay has been saying, like you said, since October. And in terms of like you'll have to get people engaged. Well, if you don't do the override, you're going to have to get people engaged again anyway. And I don't know that you typically have this many people at a select board meeting when it's like the third or fourth select board meeting that you've had this week, right? So people are engaged this year, right? They're engaged now. So if you want to get them engaged and you want to leverage off of that, then to this is the day to do it. Otherwise, you're going to have to start all over again with the engagement of everything starting again next year. I would not go for a 5-year override. And the reason is like that's a big number to ask. That is a bigger cell than a Netflix subscription. And so that's why I would not do that because in 6 weeks the comms has guys, you do really great work. I'm really sorry, but your comms is it's it's abysmal. It's so bad. Like people do not know what is happening in this

town. Like they have they the the the Grafton Common is gone. The Grafton News is gone. There is nowhere else. like people are not sitting and watching two-hour meetings on Zoom. So, we have to get that better. And whether that's going to be my favorite capital fund or something like we figure out some way to like get that money for a Yeah, sorry. I know. Um [laughter] I also whether we're going to get that money for like a crisis comes situation, not like an Olivia Pope, but like a one-time thing of like we need a crisis communicator PR person to get this done for either now or the next time. Then let's do something about the communication issue, but everybody's going to be on the same page. I need you to state your name, please. Oh, I'm sorry. Megan Paviseres. I have two kids in the district. I also am a former teacher and I have taught 11 sections of 30 plus kids. So, I feel very strongly about that. Thank you very much, Megan. Good night. [applause] No comment. Um, the Graph News still exists as a matter of fact. Oh, but it like I mean just say yeah, but it's not Has it reported on this? Yeah. Yeah. front page this week. Yeah. Um yeah. [laughter] Okay. Anybody else want to speak? Okay. Don't [snorts] forget to say your name affiliation to district. Allison Brousette. I have two kids in the district. Um I'm trying not to do um I want to bring new things as you said Craig but I do want to say um my trust as a resident is right now in Dr. Cummings and in the finance committee. And so that was actually the first committee or meeting of the finance committee that I listened to last night. And as everybody is saying, it was awesome. Like you guys had a great discussion and I appreciate that. And I would love to put like have you continue

with that like over the next two weeks or so or whatever it is. Like let's put our trust in the finance committee. to people who are experts in finance and have you guys help us craft an appropriate number for an override. And I also think a one-year override is crazy, but yet at the same time, I'm liking it, Mark. the micro overriding like we can say as Megan said the $7 in your tax like $7 a month that seems reasonable. That seems like we're moving with the times, right? Like we're just um we're not making it so overwhelming for people, but we're like doing enough to not cut our school like budget. And I do not like going below level services. I am like as everybody has said tonight, we are not going to get that money back. We're just not. And I would like that all of these committees to keep the momentum going right now. You are not going to get people re-engaged in the fall. Like keep the momentum going. please work to come up with a number that is going to be able to um allow the schools to be level services. Thank you. Anybody else? Yep. Uh Colleen Roy, I have two kids in the district and I am also a big fan of the micro override. The nice part about that is that you guys presented your balanced budget and if the micro override fails, you get your balanced budget and the cuts, but it gives the residents an opportunity to save those cuts if they

want and it sounds like they want to. So, thank you. I'll be really fast. Michelle Williams and I have three in the district. Um, I think all we're asking for is just a chance to be heard and a chance to to be heard and make a choice. And that's all I'm looking for is just that chance to be on the ballot and make make that choice. Um, as a resident, I'm feeling like I'm I'm not being heard and things are happening that I have no control over and it's very unsettling. And I'm looking at other districts. Um, and I'm looking at school choice to send my kids out of this district because I'm not comfortable with where our school district is going. And I moved here [clears throat] because of Dr. Cummings, because I had trust in him. Um, from Shberrybury, I I was a former teacher from Shbury and I followed you and I said I he this is a man who knows what he's doing [laughter] and I have faith in that. Um, so when he tells me when you're when you're raising the red flag, I'm nervous and I'm scared and I'm scared for all three of my kids. Um, and I'm not comfortable living here and I am looking other places. Um, I'm going to be honest and I know a lot of other people are too. Um, and you property values will go down and will suffer. Um, and it's that's just the way it is. I mean, you can, you know, say what you want, but um, so I feel like we we all deserve just the choice, the chance to to tell you how we feel and to put it on the ballot. Um, give us that choice, that voice. Like we're breaking up. [laughter] Awkward. Okay. Jay, can I ask a quick question based on what she said? Because we have we've talked about what happens when we lose incoming school choice kids. Yeah. Right. What happens when kids start leaving the district? What happens to our budget then? The exact same thing.

Can you elaborate a little bit? Um, we lose state aid. [clears throat] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought you meant just school choice. Um, yeah. uh we we lose state aid and lose the money if it is a school choice student. Um and obviously things get worse. Um it's it's as simple as that. Unless there's economy of scale. If you lost so many that you could decrease staffing, you still would never want that. But there's usually that doesn't happen. It's a death by a thousand cuts. Okay. Amy. Yes. Can I speak? It's you. Go ahead. Okay. Um the I'm sorry. The young woman that just spoke um about who's the teacher who Megan. Megan, I'm sorry. So Megan, can I ask you a question? Sure. Can you come to the mic? Yeah. Yep. So when um the stats that you presented about all the overrides that have passed, do you know if any of those overrides have been like if they've done it in duplicate in duplicating years and in like a series of years or are they all been kind of oneoffs? The that was just the it was the Excel spreadsheet that I had that is like the win loss one. So I only looked at the I filtered for wins. I filtered for only since 2000. So, I eliminated everything like I think it starts 82 to 2000. Um, and then I just filtered by I just filtered by amount. Um, it doesn't say when you do cuz in the the when you ask for the override, it doesn't say how long the override is supposed to pass for. You just have to fill in that blank about what it's for. So, the one that we would be doing is for healthcare. There are other ones that have been on there for healthcare. Um, so I mean it's been a variety of of things and towns are more and less specific. So, some are as general as for the schools and some are for like for the portico at Milbury Street roof. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, does that answer? That's perfect. Thank you. Yeah, that roof at Milbury Street has never been right since and we're doing it right now in 2000. It's going to be It's going to be awesome. Contractor from Milbury. Um, so I would I asked for that because when Mark first rolled out the one-year o micro override, I initially thought that might be a good way to do it because of the low number and [snorts] it might be palatable and it might be something that it became kind of everyday life, right? It just become kind of a routine, you know, yeah, we got to vote on this this extra piece as long as it it's a micro and it doesn't become, you know, doesn't grow. Um, and then when Megan spoke about it again, it just kind of made sense if we're going to do something. Um, we all know overrides are tough, but and and to do thought of them doing them every year is is not something we might want to do. But if it becomes almost a way of life, it's kind of a routine and say and it's and it's short money, then, you know, 5 million is a big number, 9 million is a big number. if it's um it might be a lot easier to sell and then um continue the process. I guess one thing I was real I was realing during these discussions that we talked about last night at finance committee that people might not have seen is that there there is very little bit of information that we get to put on the ballot measure of what this was for. And uh Mark's idea was we had an $800,000 increase in health insurance. So the ballot override question would be for the purposes of funding the unexpected healthc care increase of $800,000 this year or something to that effect. Some little bit of wording that says we having to do this because we got hit with a huge unexpected increase in

[snorts] health care costs. I just want to make sure that everyone [clears throat] was aware of that bit of our discussion from last night. Okay, I didn't actually close public participation. So, go ahead, Colleen. [snorts] Colleen, and I just wanted to build on what Craig was saying. The nice part about the micro overrides is that when we're talking about these multi-year overrides and the hope to stretch it, it's really hard to see that, but by doing these little ones each year and the years that we come across where we don't need one, that's visible right there to the voters, but they're not asking this year, but maybe we'll be back next year for 300,000 or this that and the other thing. And that's it just keeps the process more engaged and more active and and palatable. Thank you. Okay, before we hands on Zoom, we have a hand on Zoom. You have three now. Go ahead. Oh my goodness. Okay, so Mike gives the first one. You just need to unmute. Okay, Mike, you are on. You just need to unmute. Mike's iPad [clears throat] next. All right, we'll go to the next one. Sounds like radio. I've never actually done this before. This is exciting. Mr. Carol, you just need to unmute. I am unmuted. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. So, Bob Carol, I had two girls go through Grafton schools. They are not in the school district anymore. Um I was one of those ones that um did write to um the board of selectmen in an email and um my opinion is um right at this time I'm I'm not ready for for an override and the reason is um you know looking at more of a macro view right and bigger picture um you know the

Healey administration has proposed two new taxes I don't know if people know about those one is on all scripts um for those um you know that need medication and prescriptions and you know I think we can kind of figure out what populations that that would hit even more. um national scene also the tariffs right we all know tariffs are basically more [snorts] taxes and that's going to increase cost of living and I I I think it's probably a relative assurity that at least a 2 and a.5% on um the um real estate taxes in the town of graphic we're going to see that too um and and that given also with and I know the um school committee brought up the point you know the dismantling of the um the federal department of that, you know, what does that all mean, right? How does that all shake out? So, I I think, you know, um or I would encourage um Slickboard to to be mindful of, you know, the bigger view and that people will see all of these other things in their lives and, you know, what they're going to have to pay when they take under consideration whether they'll put forth an override at this time. Um, I guess that's basically, you know, where I'm coming from. Um, [snorts] I appreciate all the hard work that everyone's done and I think, you know, um, the proposal at hand is a really good compromise, but I do think, you know, in another year, um, with some hard work, we could probably have more and better, uh, proposals. So, thank you for your time. Thank you. Is mic gone? Then you have one more. One more. Jesse Ramsey, you just need to unmute. Oh, it's in my maiden name. Um, Jesse Ramalard. Oh, I have three kids in the district. Sorry, that's probably just how my

phone's set up. Um, I just wanted to chime in and say thank you to all of you. So working so collaboratively with very different perspectives, I think that adds a lot of um you know thought to a really big decision on how to move forward. So real quickly, I just want to thank you guys for that and the innovative ideas of how to bring this a little bit smaller. Um because I I hear the different things like there's people in town that really don't have the money to stretch even if they super support education. It's just that's a fact of the the matter. um and some of these additional revenue sources that I don't even know where these came out of like these are great ideas. Uh but one other idea uh that just came to mind as I'm hearing more people want to support things. Is it possible I know we do like the fund run and things like that. Is it possible for people to donate toward the schools like either you know a resident um a private party a company if we wanted to try to avoid those cuts? Like is that something that's even possible? Um, ask Dr. Cummings to answer that. Um, I I'd have to give that some thought. We We do have people donate. They historically donate for a given purpose. Um, we have an account for students in need, for example. Um, so more purpose driven. I'd have to give that a little thought as to how [snorts] that would work on a a macro level if we were able to do it and looking to pursue that. Um I think long term obviously the sheer scope would be uh far beyond you know selling cookies or something. Yeah, for sure. But I appreciate the the thinking. Yeah, my thought was if it did go for an override or if people feel like they didn't get their opportunity to to pay

more to pitch in more and they still wanted to like would that even be an avenue? Yeah, I I I can definitely give it more thought. I'd say maybe [clears throat] set it aside for for now. Um obviously in some variation we're going to as a town need an override in some capacity going forward. So, um, in the meantime, maybe save up for that. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Are there any other hands on Zoom? Mike's hand to fill up if you'd like to give him another shot. I'll give him one more chance. It is almost 9:00, so I want to I want to take this and then close public participation and wrap up this meeting. Mike, can you unmute? I fell asleep. I don't know if you can hear us. Can you hear us, Mike? Here you go. Unmuted. You can go ahead, Mike. It looks like you're unmuted. I can't hear anything. Can you? No. No, [snorts] we can't hear you. Um, sorry, Mike. We can't hear you. Email. Yeah. Why don't I Oh, he's connecting to audio. We're all really One more second. [laughter] Like we never muted. I know. Sorry. I'm not used to this. This is so different. So fun. Uh worst case we we're still showing Mike that you're muted. Um but you could certainly email in or is there a chat feature here or no? Okay. So you can certainly email any of us or any of the boards tonight or tomorrow. Sorry. Okay, we're going to move along. Um, so again, it is it is nine o'clock. Um, everybody gets one more, I think, and

then I guess that'll be it. All right, Mr. Mark, I I just had one comment on the last uh uh member pretty. So, there are some ways that you can donate. Now, there are booster organizations that help with certain supplies that the school is unable to fund with and educational opportunities and things like that. So, even if there isn't something big that can go towards that, there are certainly uh opportunities of PTO, PTG, and athletic boosters, music boosters, things like that. if someone is looking for a way to contribute to the schools. Yeah. Um I still am not 100% sure how I feel about the micro overrides, but I'm I don't I'm feel I'm leaning more toward it. Um or maybe not necessarily ongoing, but for for the one year for this year, I'm I'm leaning more toward it. Um, I just I think that giving the voters something to to actually put their voice into on the ballot, I think would be uh is worth doing. Angelina, I would just like to see if there's precedents for it, too. um as far as handling the the budget this way. But it's I mean it makes sense to me the first time we heard about it tonight, but it's growing on me. Um but I'd also like to know if anybody's tried it and how it's gone. So Victoria, I just want to echo Angelia's comment. agreed that it would be very interesting to understand what the the pattern is historically for sort of many multiple little overrides or if we would be sort of a guinea pig which is not necessarily a negative thing right and I I think it's it's growing on

me as well and I think one of the reasons why is I think uh both Craig Colleen have used the word palatable and I think that that's appropriate um particularly in this first year I think we have a plan that no one is happy with. It's not great. It's not sunshine and and roses, but the both the superintendent and the town administrator have made cuts for a level budget that are survivable for a year and perhaps a mini o override like this. [snorts] The $69,000 [clears throat] would take the temperature of the town. Um and if it were to not pass, we would survive and that would give us ample opportunity to come back with something that is um let's say uh comm's appropriate, right? Gives us time to create a narrative that we can build something with over the next year um while also taking the temperature in a lower risk environment now. So it's it's growing on me as well. Andy, thank you, Madam Chair. Um I [clears throat] just want to put out there that um you know Evan had sent the board uh an email earlier today that um he is continuing to update some of our benchmarking standards from our previous report uh you know a new benchmarking report could be um you know on on the in the future if that's the what the select board so chooses. Um you know similar to Mr. Kusher, my my main concern is is that residents get the the chance to voice their opinion here. And if the the way everybody's leaning and the way uh you know from the input that we've gotten uh a one-year 600 is is what we feel is appropriate, I can I can totally support that. Um you know, and then really get serious about increasing our comms. And I and I point out the benchmarking study because I think that can help us in years to come. I'm anticipating some of

that push back would be that we're essentially giving ourselves like, you know, little mini blank checks to bail us ourselves out every year. Um, but if we go back and we and we do that due diligence and can point out where we stand in comparison to to comparable communities, um, in terms of our budgeting and and what we're paying our staff and and all those things, um, it potentially, you know, makes that work a little easier next year when when the discussion comes back. Okay. [snorts] I have Leora, Laura, me, Mark. Who else? Okay, keeping a running list. At the risk of repeating what some of my colleagues have said, I walked into this meeting sort of afraid of a one-year override. I thought, God, you know, having to do those comms over and over, year after year, seems extremely daunting. Um, I have changed my mind, too. Um, or I'm certainly more open to it. Um, I love the idea of not having these scary cuts um that really take us down to the bone. Um, I do think it's palatable and easy for the voters to understand and to accept. Um, so I am uh, you know, my initial thinking when I walked in here was I want to find a compromise where we're taking the needs of the of the taxpayer into account and the needs of the school. And uh, I've become convinced that this may be the way to do that. So Laura, um, so I I don't we don't get a vote on the one year or not, which I'm grateful for, but I I still have some concerns. I'm open to it. I mean, really smart people keep saying it's a good idea, who I respect a lot. So I'm I'm open and I like that people can come and and possibly sell it. So I would want us to really think about it though and not knee-jerk it. I know we we're running out of time, but at least put a little bit more thought. It concerns me on how

I plan how we negotiate contracts if we're and then we're gonna have to go out and be like I have a one-year now we're gonna have a whatever we call it because right we're going to have to come up with a better name than an override like John Lincoln suggested or normal ride or whatever it is and now I'm going to have to say it's just for raises and then I have to you know so that just concerns not that they're wrong. The comm's piece I'm ready to you know we'll roll up our sleeves. Franklin has subcommittees that handle their communications. I'd love, you know, a a um subcommittees on on all the boards that we could just work together and and farm it out. I'll recommend that. Um and that's it. Just really I know it sounds cute and it sounds like a great idea and like I said, smart people are suggesting it and I like being a trailblazer. I just I don't know. It really scares me when I look at my budget for next year. our budget done. Kyl um I have me and then Mark and then Matt and then Kyle and then Christy. Did I miss anything far? No. Okay. So, um I I came into this meeting um really just trying to be open to everything. I I hear all of the cries from all of the people and everybody wants something different and I think that the fact that we've um this has been a great meeting and I think that we've gotten a lot of information out there. Um I too am more of a fan than I expected of this idea of a one-year for this year. I think that it remains to be seen whether it is a good idea to do micro overrides going forward, but I think doing it this time and getting to work on the future is what we need to be focusing on. Um, I like the idea of it being for health care. I think that is a very understandable concrete piece. We need to provide benefits to our staff. We

have a very small staff, but we have to provide them with benefits. And that's the hit that we took. And I think if we're honest with the taxpayers about it, and we don't just say it's for this amalgam thing called the schools or the this, it's for health care for our employees. It's succinct, it's simple, easy to understand. Um, and that is what I have to say. And I'm going to go to Mark next. Thank you, Madam Chair. And actually, that's what I was thinking about. Um, so I don't know if I'm allowed [snorts] to repeat, but I'm going to go for it anyway. But before I do, I would like to acknowledge two things. First of all, the group of people that came in and got up to speak. It's very hard to do. I've mentioned it a million times. Anybody who's watched any of the select board meetings, I know how hard it is to do this, to be on this side of the table. It's even harder on that side of the table. And I do appreciate all of you um stepping up in a thoughtful and considerate and maybe most importantly a respectful way, you know, because that's how you get things done instead of like get mad at each other and making fights out of everything. The respectful dialogue. Uh which leads me to my next point, which is what's led me to sort of um I like to get a lot of inputs. I like to think about things. I like to talk about it with Evan and Mary. I like to just think about it on the ride to work. I like to deliberate a lot and what you all did tonight for me is to help me to add additional inputs that maybe I wasn't necessarily thinking about and a lot like Leora again apologize for repeating but I did come here I I was here I've been all along thinking compromise and talking about a compromise and I came in tonight thinking compromise was the way to go. I wasn't thinking much beyond that because there's a lot of work's gone into just a simple compromise, this simple plan. But adding to that, the the additional inputs and insights from everyone here has helped me a great deal. And quite frankly, I I guess my mind has my my thinking has evolved on the matter a little bit as well. And I would like to talk more about this one-year

possibility with with you, Evan, you know, offline as we get time to do that. Uh but I I could see it um Madame Chair directing it towards the health care because it's the health care for all of the town by the way. It's not just health care benefits for teachers and principles and whatever. It's health care for every worker, every employee of the town. And that is actually very a very different way to sell it. And it's also real. It's what it is. It's right. Where's Mark? He's nice. So that's the reason we are here. Okay. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Natt. All right. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, it's getting late, so I'm not going to repeat what everybody just said. Um, I'm going to just say two things. Um, one, um, I'm interested in the one-year override for the specific purpose because it gives voters a choice. Um, and second, um, it, uh, gives the schools the, um, option for level service, which I think is going to be difficult. those funds are going to be difficult to cut back. Um, so I'm not totally sold on it, but I think it's a really intriguing idea. Um, and it's definitely something that uh in principle sort of first look it it sounds like a good idea. Thank you, Kyle. Yeah, I it's could be a good idea. I think that there aren't very engaged folks saying right now that there a one year override is a good idea, but a lot of people who vote aren't quite as engaged. I think comms to reiterate Laura is going be very important if we do do this. I would also want to see if other communities similar what Craig and Victoria had said if they've done it in the past any precedent how it's gone. So maybe they'll learn from that before we recommend. And then lastly I keep going back but there's a reason I'm sure Jay and Evan thought of the one-year override and the option and there's a reason they didn't recommend it recommended the middle ground opportunity. I think it's worth listening to them. So that's my thoughts. Christie,

I agree with Kyle. I really don't have much more to add to that other than people are talking about how many kids they have in the district and such. I just want to point out that I think Mr. Dolphin and I probably are the oldest like the most. Uh my parents went through Grafton. My grandparents attended Gra Mr. Courier. He's way older. No, not that you're older than me. No, no, no. That I know you're older than me. Like that's not a question, Mr. Dolphin. Um But [laughter] oh jeezy. Uh no uh my children attend Grafton. My nephew will be starting Grafton in the fall. Um but I also agree with Mrs. Otton. We've It does sound lovely the one-year override right now, but I don't know how it's going to really go going forward. I And and again, I concur with Kyle. And one more thing, the finance committee voted against that last night. So Mr. Mark, uh just a bit of information for people that might not have heard about this yet. Uh we hear a lot about uh seniors on fixed income not being able to afford their taxes. Please come to town meeting. Support the citizens petition for a needsbased uh tax property tax deduction for seniors. again, citizens petition needsbased property um uh property tax reduction for seniors. Thank you, Mr. Jefferson. Sorry, I will keep it quick. I I disagree with with Kyle's take only because I believe that the role of those two gentlemen is are to present options. I don't think they typically take a side as to which option is the correct one. They bring forward options for everybody else to make the decision. So, I wouldn't expect them to come out and say, "We need an override. I support an override, etc." Okay.

Anybody else? So, we came here tonight to work together toward a plan. I think we have a plan. We also came here tonight to talk about the future. I think we talked about the future. And as far as I'm concerned, I feel like the goals of tonight have been met. We're going to keep talking. Hopefully there's going to be more meetings like this. Um, I'd like to thank Amarie for uh graciously allowing me to chair tonight. I think it's great and we can share the responsibility. Um, the only thing that remains to be done is a roll call to exit the meeting. So, if anybody has anything else, say it now. All right, we'll start with Fincom. [snorts] All right, Vinc will adjourn if we roll call. Yep. Calquatory Doug. I Mark I Angelina I and I. And online we still have Heather and Nick. Heather I Nick I. Thank you very much. And select board will adjourn by roll call. A I Alamo I Json I Foley I. Seeing as how there is no other business that come before the board at this time the school committee adjourns. Thank you Grafton. My dad founded Grafton. I just want to