Board of Health - Regular Meeting

[Music] All right. Um, this open meeting of the Grafton Board of Health is being conducted uh hybridly consistent with the acts extending certain CO 19 measures adopted during the state emergency. Governor Healey has further extended this act until July 30th, 2027 of the remote meeting provisions of former Governor Baker's March 12th, 2020 executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law. In order to mitigate the transmission of the CO 19 virus, the act extends the requirement of the open meeting law to have all meetings in a publicly accessible physical location. Further, all members of public bodies are allowed to participate remotely. The order, which you can find posted to the town's website at www.craft rafton-mass.gov allows public bodies to meet entirely remotely so long as reasonable public access is afforded so that public the public can follow along with the deliberations of the meeting. Ensuring public access does not ensure public participation unless such participation is required by law. There is a public uh hearing this evening. Um so for once we get to that we'll go over some ground rules for that. Uh but folks that are dialed in remotely to participate um there is a Q&A feature. So, please um if you are looking to speak during this um please use that function including your full name and address when submitting comment for this meeting. Grafton Board of Health is as we said hybrid um and the agenda is posted on the town's website identifying how the public may join. Please note that this meeting is being recorded and that some attendees as we said are um by video conference. Accordingly, please be aware that other folks may be able to see you and take care not to screen share your computer. Anything that you broadcast may be captured by the recording. Meeting materials um any supporting materials uh that have been provided to members of this body are available on the town's website unless

otherwise noted. The public is encouraged to follow along using posted agendas unless I otherwise uh note otherwise. There are some here in the room and we will do some screen share for some other materials later on this uh this evening. Before we turn to the first item on the agenda, permit me to cover some ground rules for effective and clear conduct of our business and to ensure accurate meeting minutes. I'll introduce any speakers on the agenda for a topic. After they conclude their remarks, I'll invite the board members to provide any comment, question or motions. Please identify yourself by name when speaking. Further, please remember to mute your phone or computer when you're not speaking. Please remember to speak clearly and in a way that helps generate accurate minutes. For any response, please wait until I yield the floor to you. State your name before speaking. If members wish to engage with other members, please do through through me, taking care to identify yourself. Finally, any votes on any motions made during this meeting will be conducted by roll call vote gets longer every time. All right, so uh we've officially opened our board meeting, our board of health meeting today. Um, and the first agenda on our schedule for this evening is the public hearing. Um, so members of the board, uh, would anyone like to make a motion to open the public hearing?

This is Andrew Chuka. I make a motion to open the public hearing regarding the request for variance at 42 McGill Drive by McGill Associates. Is there a second? I second. Who are you? I prau second. Thank you. Roll call vote. This is Andrew Chaluka. I radu I Bill Muller. Karen Goweski Govin. I

Jen Maynard. I Okay. Public hearing. I'm just going to read the notice. Um this is an amended notice. Uh, the Grafton Board of Health will hold a public hearing on Monday, July 14th, 2025, commencing at 6:30 p.m. in conference room F and via Zoom at the Grafton Memorial Municipal Center, 30 Proidence Road to consider the variance request for an irrigation well, section 12 of the Town of Grafton Board of Health Well Regulations on the property located at 42 Miguel Drive, shown as Grafton, Assessor's Map 100, lot 300. The owners and and applicants, John H. Miguel Jr., President McGill Associates. A copy of the request is available for public inspection at the health department during regular business hours or on the town of Grafton's website link which I'm going to share now. Um on the board of health website public hearings and signed by me. Uh it was published in the telegram on July 1st and July 7th. Uh, and here is for folks. There we go. Um, so, um, we will not read all of these comments. Um, the members of the board have read through all of these attachments. As you can see, it's, um, if you go to the Grafton Town website, boards and committees, A to B, Board of Health, public hearings, 42 McGill Drive. Um, and then if you scroll down to the bottom, all of the um, comments that we've received from the public or from other bodies uh, within Grafton are listed here. So, we won't read every single one of them, but we do want to make sure folks know where they are and what types of things we'll be talking about this evening. Stop screen sharing. Um, there are I just want to acknowledge there are three folks dialed in on the phone. Um in in addition to the folks

that you can see here on the screen who are part of the panel um just by a show of hands in the room are folks here that have not um already submitted comments online or to us that are going to want to make any comments on this hearing. Is there anybody in the room? Just just checking to see if you you'll want to make a few statements. I I will allow for for that shoot soon. Anybody else? Okay. Um I will say once we open up for um any public comment, we're going to set a timer for three minutes just so that we kind of keep to time this evening and we get to as much discussion as we can. Okay. All right. Um and folks on the phone similarly if you could uh indicate in the Q&A if you do plan to have any comments um the same three minute time will um be put forth. All right. Um to start I think um I believe I I know who's probably going to make comments on behalf of uh McGill. So um would you like to start uh just to kind of weigh in Joe?

Yes. Uh thank you. Uh thank you madam chairperson. Uh, first of all, I'd like to thank the board, particularly Nancy Connors, who I haven't seen in quite some time. I've spent a lot of time in your town hall over the last 20 years. Thank you, Nancy, for getting me all the information. I really appreciate it. Um, I no longer live in Massachusetts, but I still do some work for the McGills. Uh, but for the record, Joseph Anthony Ellis, I'm a licensed practicing attorney in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. My office is in Framingham on Route 9. Um, thank you again. Thank you to the board for the opportunity. Um the application before you uh specifically relates to the Highfields Golf and Country Club solely for the purpose of providing additional water uh for the greens and tea boxes at the golf course in the times when there are significant lack of ability to use the well excuse me the uh irrigation ponds that are on the property. um perhaps more than anyone um uh and I would say Bob Hassinger would be the other person. I've been involved uh in the project uh since 1997. And the project began, as you may recall, with the application by John McIll, Senior um for the purpose of building homes and a golf course community. And the the permit was granted under the uh town's flexible uh bylaw that allowed for smaller lots if uh uh if open space was set aside under under a conventional subdivision. This could have been a 250 to 260 lot subdivision, but Mr. McIll chose to build the golf course. It was one of his passions. Um and uh I know that uh he and his family are extremely proud of the product that has been presented to the town of Grafton. Uh it's been over 20 years now that the golf course has been in operation. Um uh as you know from the application uh the request is to install a well uh near the 18th hole of the golf course for the purpose of

supplementing the present irrigation system there which is primarily derived from collecting the storm water runoff throughout the subdivision. When the project was originally proposed to the town, we worked closely with the planning board at the time, uh the then town planner and the conservation commission in an effort to try and capture all of the storm water and use it proactively on the golf course uh to provide the primary irrigation for the golf course. And at that time we were under the impression and had been uh led to believe that if we were ran short of water that we would be able to purchase it directly from the graph and water department from a well that was supposed to have come on and I believe never has. I'm not quite certain but it's the opportunity is not available to us. Um, I'm I'm going to I'm I'm not going to take too much of your time because a lot of this is going to be requ related to technical questions. But from the subdivision standpoint, the subdivision is 99% complete. One uh section of the roadway has been accepted by the town of Grafton and the second section will be per uh uh brought forward for road acceptance uh probably next year. I think there are only a couple lots left to to develop. in the entire subdivision as you know is uh serviced by the Grafton water department and it is also serviced by the Grafton sewer department. So there is uh there are no wells on the properties on the 160 odd houses there. Um and in addition at the time when the project was approved uh the Mc Beill family extended the water line to provide water to other areas to other immediate areas uh in around the golf course. And to the best of my knowledge, uh, some of the h homes, uh, uh, have been, uh, hooked up to the water. There's a water line that goes, I believe, through the eighth fairway, uh, and connects to the roadway right there. So, we've provided the ability for other

people in the town to grab on to the hope uh, to the graphin water supply. Um the um the course again was um was was a lot of design went into the uh uh containment of water and uh the requirement for pesticides to be uh properly maintained. As you know, the course was pro the property itself had been farmed for many years and uh one of the provisions in the permit the original permit was that we were to provide testing results on a regular basis uh to the town which we have over the years. I think one of the board members may have asked a question about perimeter wells wells. Those were part of the wells that were put in to test the quality of the groundwater. Um, Michael Connell, who's been our superintendent for 20 years and is involved with the maintenance of the golf course, is in a much better position to answer specific questions from the board than I am. But I wanted to just provide a little bit of a background for you in that regard as to how the uh course is primarily maintained. I submitted a a a short memorandum uh outlining the three steps that we take. The first of which is to use the water in the irrigation ponds and then later to move one pond to another and then uh at last to truck water in and uh on information and belief from our contractor the well the water that we buy from an independent contractor is actually coming out of the town of Grafton from a well someplace else. Uh, I wanted to just add all of that so that you would have an understanding of how we procure our water, what we do in those difficult circumstances and also to let you know that our primary focus is on the greens and the tea boxes, not on the fairways. And I I just want to make one comment. I I put this in my memorandum. The application obviously is for an irrigation well. It's there there's no question that we're irrigating um land,

but but when you look at it from a strict standpoint, this is a business. This is a viable business. We have over 100 employees uh at the high fields uh throughout the season. And um while again we are watering uh turf uh it is not an irrigation well for the purpose of beautifying uh a parking lot or u someone's lawn. It it is it is integally involved with our with the business and is a necessary component to making the business uh sustainable. Um, again, I set forth in my letter, and I can answer questions about this, but the the the golf course, which consists of approximately 218 acres, uh, will be subject to a conservation restriction, uh, once the final roadway is accepted. We can't do it before that in case there's a problem with a measurement. Once you put land into a conservation restriction, it's very difficult to take out. We have to preserve our rights for easements, etc. But once the golf course is done, the course itself, the 218 acres, will be set forth into a conservation restriction which will prohibit it from any future development and will require it to be maintained for open and passive recreation in the as the golf course is now. Uh in the winter when the snow's on the thing and and on the course and it's not being used, it's it's available for uh for for uh hiking and and traversing etc. So that will remain. Notwithstanding how the board feels about tonight's application, uh you do have 219 acres of land that will be set aside in perpetuity for conservation purposes and recreational purposes. So with that, I'm going to stop and perhaps Michael Cornell can give you a little bit idea about the location of the well and how many gallons he anticipates that he will need. uh as you'll see in our in our application and and and followed up in my letter, uh we do not anticipate that the well would be used uh much more than

three months a year and then and then and only then in those times when we thought it was critical to maintain the tea boxes in the green. So with that and and with the chair's permission, I'll stop my my speech here and and my presentation. I didn't mean it to be a speech. It's it uh and and turn it over to Michael and then to the extent the board has specific questions uh we'll try and answer them through the chair uh in the appropriate way. And again, I thank you for your opportunity to make the presentation tonight and for and for your attention to the matter. Thank you. Thanks, Joe. Um Mike, do you want to come up to a microphone? Sure. Just introduce yourself.

Sure. Um and we will, as I said, open up for folks who have not. Um and I I do have one in the chat that I'll read. Um, just acknowledging for that person we received. Can everybody hear me? There you go. Little

All right. Uh, my name is Michael Connell. I've been the superintendent at Highfield since 2003. Uh, I finished the growin for McGill uh, of Highfields. Prior to that, I finished the growin for Blackstone National in Sutton. So, I've been in this area for well since the late 90s. Um, so why I'm here is we're we're asking for a well. And the reason we're asking for that is because there's been less and less of a reliance on or not a reliance, but um, to put it bluntly, it's been harder and harder for me to get water from the town. Um, I had a great relationship with Matt Pearson, who was the old, I guess, uh, water district manager and, um, he would allow me to use, you know, we would communicate and he would allow me to use a fair amount of water to assist in the irrigation of the golf course. Um, but since then, it's become more difficult to get a adequate supply from the town. Um, so case in point, I was told only to run the town water at night and essentially like a garden hose, which is just unreliable to manage an 18hole golf course, which, you know, I understand is probably a push to get high fields off of the town water. And um, I would agree with that. I think we should have our own well water supply. Um, so that's why we're here. We're asking for a well. Um I put a number in the um outline that is requesting 50 gallons per minute um which would give us 72,000 gallons a day. And the reason that number is significant is that is the amount of water I would need to water

the greens and teas on a by or every other night basis. Um, so just to I might go over my three minutes here, but uh, when I water, I have a three-phase process that I go about when I water the golf course. Um, the first phase is turning the well on, and the well is not turned on until I use a full cycle of irrigation. So that's green, TE's, and fairways. Uh, case in point, this year, the irrigation system did not get charged up until the the first week of June. and I turned the well on on June 16th. Um that's actually late for a season to turn the well on. Um but this year was June 16th. So um this well that we have on the 12th hole um unfortunately it doesn't produce a lot of water for us. Um it's very deep. It's 1,200 ft deep and it only produces about 13,000 gallons a day. So unfortunately it's not enough for me to It helps. Trust me it helps. Everything helps. but it's just not enough for me um to get me through the summer months with that amount of water. Um so again, the first phase is as soon as I run a full cycle of irrigation water, greens, teas, and fairways, I turn the well on either the next day or that day, knowing the water levels coming down, the well gets turned on. Um and then we begin the summer. So, as the pond gets drawn down, say we have a dry year, um, with the well on, the pond begins to diminish, I start what's called phase two. And like Joe said, that's moving the 16th irrigation pond over to the 12th irrigation pond. They're roughly the same size. Um, I think 16 owns holds about 3 million gallons. Uh, 12 is about 2 and a half million

gallons. Um, so that's phase two. As once I've moved that pond over, takes about a week. As that begins to draw down, I start what's called phase three or critical phase. And that's calling up Mike Miranda with Water Transport in South Grafton. And we get four tanker trucks of water delivered to the golf course. Um, each tanker truck is 8,000 gallons. We would get two in the morning, two at night. Um, and again, that was just enough to keep my greens alive during this drought. And the fairways at that point, that critical phase three, the fairways are turned off, period. We are no longer ir irrigating fairways. Uh, we're just focusing on the greens and TE's because that's our critical asset. That's what keeps the golf course open. That's what keeps the hundreds of people, hundreds of employees employed. Um, so that's why I'm here is to to maybe get away from the tanker truck, which costs us a fortune, and uh maybe we have a well that will prolong the whole three-phase process, and when we do reach beyond that three-phase process, allow us to keep the greens and teas alive.

Thank you, Mike. Um, sure. Since we're on this topic, I do have a question that just came in um that you probably can answer to and then I'll read um some comments from somebody else. Um Sean Padet is asking, "Has the current deep irrigation well always produced the same amount of water or has it diminished over time?"

Um I would say so, uh it's again, it's not a very good well. It's 1,200 ft down and it's on a timer. So, what happens is we have to say run it for two hours and then I have to shut it off for an hour for it to recharge. Um, it's been pretty consistent since we put it in. So, I just checked it this year. Um, we're still at about that 12 to 13,000 gallons a day uh into the pond. To answer Sean's question, the great Okay. Yeah, it was never great. Yeah. Um so this well on the 12th hole you said it's very deep but it's providing insufficient water now. Yes.

What kind of analysis or hydro geological survey has been done to show that a new well in this new location would be drawing water from a different aquifer? Um, so I believe um the gentleman who drills our well is Charlton Well, Pete. Um, and he Peter from Charlton Well has, you know, a history of drilling wells and he's kind of given us there's ways you can find it. And I guess he he has these um this line where there seems to be a good amount of water. And that's from his history, I guess, of drilling other wells and people drilling other wells, but it's not guaranteed. We don't know. Um I'm I'm requesting 50 gallons a minute. When I say 50 gallons a minute, I need 50 gallons going into the pond. I don't know what this yell this well would yield until we drill it.

Well, I'm the reason I'm asking this. Yeah, I don't know if you've had a chance to review the the questions published uh on the town website uh given by the members of the public. Yeah, there's a lot of concern of impact on residential wells of a Butters, right? So, I'm wondering if you can furnish the analysis that Charlton Well um uh undertook because it's not I'm not we're we are here to balance the needs of High Fields with the needs of the public. Yeah.

Um and I think the the public is concerned not only that it might not meet your needs, but that it might impact Right. residential well performance. So yeah, you know, has this analysis been done and can it be furnished? It has not I understand there's no guarantees, but there are hydrogeeological surveys that can can be performed prior to drilling the well. So I just want to clarify that folks, the board members are going to ask questions. Um I will invite you folks up to um make comments. If there's questions from it, we will pull and we direct questions to folks. I do want to make sure everybody gets an opportunity to engage, but we have to kind of Yeah.

go through because I also have folks uh listening in that have commentary that I have to respond to. Um so I guess to Andrew's question, uh understanding that it's it's not a guaranteed science, if you will. I guess the question is is is there a possibility of that report being furnished for um us to review? Um I don't know. We have not conducted a report. to be selected. What? I think you have to probably come up. Are you with High Fields as well? Okay. Oh, hi. Sorry, we've not met before.

Okay. Is this on? Yeah. Just introduce yourself, please. One of the reasons we're choosing this location is because we can get power from the clubhouse. Every well that we put in needs a power source. So, there aren't too many power sources available to us. So, we thought the clubhouse area would be another good place to try, you know, the the area where we drilled the first well, there's a power source right there on hole number 12, which is the pump house, but we don't want to we don't want to drill another well in that location. Yeah. So, we're very limited as to where we can actually put a well because we're very limited to power sources. Can you into the microphone a little more going forward?

It's Yeah. Basically, the reason we're going for the uh clubhouse packing area is because it's one of the only places that we can get power to run a well. The uh you know, there's no power sources anywhere else on the course that could actually support a a well pump. So, the only other location is by hole number 12 where our pump house is. And we don't want to try that area again because, you know, we've already tried it. And so basically our only other option is up by the clubhouse because that's the only other place that we can get power. So it it sounds like there may be some logistical limitations for where it can be located.

Correct. But again, in I think in order to make this decision, the most important issue that's been raised by members of the public and in my mind the one we don't seem to have an answer for right now is the the adequacy of this and the um impact on other abuing wells. Um and so just to be clear, the analysis has not been done yet. Okay.

And we'll we'll have further board discussion. I just I want to make sure um Joe, I see your hand. I want to read um just the comments that I received from somebody and then I'll let you uh respond and then I'm going to offer the folks that have raised their hand to speak in the room. Um and then the board will talk about um deliberations next. Um so um this is from somebody that's dialed in. My name is Aaron Mcmanis, a deaf resident and homeowner at 203 Providence Road, Grafton, Mass 01519. As I'm unable to speak, I respectfully submit the written statement for the board's consideration. I urge the board to deny the request due to serious concerns about the potential depletion of the shared aquafer that many surrounding homes, including mine, rely on as their sole source of water. My household, along with others outside the McGill neighborhood, depends entirely on well water for daily use. Increased demand on aquafer such as that proposed may significantly lower the water table resulting in reduced water pressure, inconsistent supply, or even dry wells. These impacts pose a serious risk to residents who do not have access to municipal water systems. Protecting the long-term sustainability of our groundwater is vital for the health and well-being of our community. Thank you for consideration of these uh concerns. Um Aaron, just so you're aware, I did um take this down and we'll submit it over so that it can get posted um as well as comments. Um Joe, I let you comment and then I'll I'll go to see if folks uh have additional questions they want us to uh the board to address with folks. Go ahead, Joe.

Again, thank you, Madam Chair. again along the line relative to providing the information. Um I would not want to leave here tonight uh with a negative uh vote or uh have this board uh believe that there's additional information that could be presented. So I would hopefully reserve we had asked that we reserve our rights to supplement uh before the meeting is closed. Sure. Thank you for that. Thank you. Okay. Um I don't want I don't mean to point but gentleman in the blue shirt, you had your hand raised first to speak. Do you want to come to Come to a microphone. Go ahead. Just come to a microphone for me, please. Yeah. And um please state your name and your address just so we have it.

Name is Bruce Humphre and at 151 Providence Road, Department G. The question I have with like everybody else is that you put this well in 72,000 gallons a day or whatever you're going to get. Now, I would imagine that our unit over there doesn't even come close to having that kind of pressure over to Providence Road. as far as 72,000 gallons a day or an hour or whatever you guys got. But the problem is that if you put that well in and all of a sudden our pressure comes down or the dries dry the well goes dry. Are you guys going to put a new well in for us? No. No. And guess what? We don't want ys either. So it's like the thing is we have this is our livelihood. We've lived there, right?

And all you guys got is a golf course and I play golf every day. So I know the situation you guys have. But you got to look at the people in their primary, you know, well, their water washing, you know, drinking and so forth, and you're worried about greens. You guys been up there how many years now? 23 years. Yeah. And it's still going strong. It's still going strong up there. That's one of the best courses around. Yeah, we've we've lost Can I go ahead and respond to that? So, um yes, uh the concern is um obviously we know the weather is changing. Um, we're seeing spikes both ways. We're seeing a tremendous amount of rain and we're seeing a tremendous amount of extreme droughts.

Um, so that's partially why I'm here. Uh, but I just want you to know that I'm an open book. I am willing I want to be a good neighbor to this and if if this were to cause an issue, then we would have to meet here again and obviously find another solution. Um I built that course 23 years ago. Um we had a great relationship with the town wa the town uh water commissioner and getting the supply or the assistance we needed. Um but again that has slowly disappeared. I think there's a push to get high fields off the town water system. Um, but I need some other water source to come up with to to be able to maintain that course.

Now, we don't know what the what the 50 gallons a minute. Honestly, I don't even think we'll get 50 gallons a minute. That would be that'd be wishful thinking, but I'm telling you the 50 gallons a minute would be what kind of I'm looking for to be able to sustain without having tanker trucks. Um, but again, I I want to be a good neighbor. I've been there 23 years. I am an open book to everything. Um, if it's an issue, then we sit down here again and we find something else. Maybe we go back to the tanker truck and look elsewhere. I don't know. Right. So, if you you're saying that challenge is going to come down and put a dwell in, you don't know guarantee what's going to come out of there. We don't know.

Okay. And you don't you can't guarantee that our pressure in our water supply is going to diminish in our either. We don't know. Right. So if you end up getting approval and it goes down and our water supply goes down, you're going to shut it down. Then we come back and we shut it down. We shut it down completely forever. So So we can talk about a little bit more of um previous history as well around when the last well was approved. I think that'll be something that the board will want to deliberate on further tonight. But I appreciate your comments and questions. All right. Thank you. Have a good day. Thank you. Did you want to go in?

Please just state your name and address for us. Hi, I'm Ken Hullberger, 47 Old Upton Road. Uh, we've talked about a number of things and I guess my first observation is that water for the golf course is a cost of the business and it's always been a cost of the business and it's that's it is what it is. And so, uh, I understand that you've been, uh, getting water from the Grafton Water District, but they are starting to restrict that. And they're restricting it probably for good reason. And the good reason probably is is that they don't have enough water either. And so uh you know you drilling a well into a public resource is uh you know what might solve your problem for a while but you're everybody's acknowledging is that the water resources seem to be diminishing. And so if the board of health gives a waiver for this well it seems to me that there it has no recourse beyond that. You can't go back and say, "Okay, I want to take it back."

Can you? Well, there there were stipulations put in place with the first there were stipulations put in with the first we're going to deliberate on on those once the approval is given. There's no going back. And so, uh there's no recourse after that. So, you you need to take that into consideration. And I just have one more question. And you say you have another well for irrigation which is uh against that you know the Grafton well uh regulations and I'm wondering when you got a waiver for that and what were the reasons for that? It was 2014 correct and it was the same reasons that we're here for tonight. There was a public hearing there was a public hearing for that. All right. Well, involved.

And so I guess the point of uh that I have and the point that the other uh 16 signitories of that letter have is that we question the value of using a public resource for commercial purposes and uh granting a waiver to allow uh once the well is drilled drilled free water uh in large quantities uh what could go wrong with that? Sure. lots and once once the w once the uh waiver for the uh the the regulation is given you can't take it back. Sure.

So you need to take that into very careful consideration and uh I understand you've been buying water on the commercial market and it seems to me that for a commercial business that's what you need to do. You need to pay a market price for it. So okay we yeah thank you for your market price for the for the cost. I think we have your and you submitted a letter as well, right? I believe. Yeah. So, we do have we do have that listed on the website and there's like there's like 16 signitories. Thank you.

Thank you. Do you want to come on up, sir? Um you could probably use here and just as I said, please um state your name and your address. Yeah, if somebody can grab the mic. Thank you. Hi, my name is Phil Zer.

I know it's louder than I expect, right? Okay. U my name's Phil Zerielo. I live at 8 written house road. So I think I'm kind of opposite some of these other folks. Um I was a hydraologist for the US Geological Survey for over 40 years. I know a little bit about this stuff. Having your well driller say, "Well, we think we can do this." He has no idea. Until you drill a well, do a pump test, you're clueless,

right? And then to reiterate points that have been made earlier, you know, if you if you get a lot of water out of that well, it's going to have an effect on other wells. This is not an aquifer. Well, aquifer in a very loose term, right?

This is a bedrock system. That's a fracture of rock. So things are going to flow in unpredictable ways and that has to be done with a really thorough pump test before this even gets approval. But you're not going to want to do that. And the problem is if you get a good withdrawal from this well, it's probably going to have a consequential effect on these other wells. Meaning there's no backup for for folks like me. We don't have, you know, some truck to come in and unless we pay for it out of our pocket and then even then it's like, okay, unless a truck's parked there putting water in our system, we don't have any. So, you know, I've been there for 25 years. I I think the gentleman on the Zoom call said uh they've been testing for for that time for pesticides and herbicides, whatever they put on the golf course. My well's never been tested. So, it's um I'm pretty opposed to the well mainly because you don't have a clue. You have to do a pump test. It has to be thorough. It has to be done for a lengthy amount of time with a lot of monitoring wells involved in it to have any kind of reasonable judgment of how that well is going to react to the system. Thank you for your comments. Okay. Um I think were you all set in the back? Did you want to have any questions or comments? You're all set. Thank you. Um seeing no others in the Q&A. Um Phil, I just want to acknowledge that you're here uh on the line with us. I don't know if you wanted to introduce yourself and if you had any questions or comments uh before the board asks any further questions.

you speaking to me? Yes, sir. I didn't know if you wanted to introduce yourself and if you had any questions before the board members um ask further questions before we end the hearing.

Okay. Um my name is Philip Logger. Um consultant to the town of Grafton. Um retired from the city of Worcester, former formerly chief of environmental health for the alliance of which was a member. Um, and I sit on a board of health where I live in the town of Royalston. So, I know I know what it's like to sit where they are. Uh, balancing public needs versus private needs. That's really the question here. Um, and the main question is, uh, from the residents is what happens if their wells are affected. Um, I think Mr. McIll stated, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, uh, you stated that you would, uh, that was to occur, you would shut down the new well. Is, am I correct in what you you stated?

Did you say, Mike? Well, yeah. I mean, if if this is obviously a concern, then we would have to address this a different way and that would be, you know, I don't I don't know what the solution would be at that point. Maybe it would be continuing the tanker truck. I don't know. Um, were there any considerations uh for uh or land to create more irrigation ponds where you can get winter runoff? uh was any consideration in that uh regard?

So, we have pursued that avenue. We extended the 16th pond um the bank just to hold a little bit more water. Um so, we have, but I don't I don't think there's any further uh things we just where it's located and where the street is, I don't think we could do any more than what we've done. Um, okay. Go ahead.

Just a side note, I know um pesticides were a concern and um just a little history of high fields and what we've um what we've done. Um so, yes, there are, I believe, seven monitor wells. Um I've got a map here of all the monitor wells and surface uh I don't think I have surface water, but monitor wells on the property. And when I first got here in 20 uh 2003, uh we were required to do four um monitor well and surface water tests a year. Um, and what those tests were designed to do, um, I guess there were high nitrate levels in the water from the dairy farm from the spreading of cow manure and there were also certain pesticides that the town wanted to monitor. Um so what we did was we we started with four tests a year and uh for about five or six years they knocked that down to two and then one and then none. And what they've determined is that going from a dairy farm to a golf course, the water quality improved. The nitrate levels almost disappeared and there's very little if none pesticide residue in these monitor wells. Um, again, when you apply pesticides and manure to bare soil, it leeches straight through to the ground. Um, and now that we have a cover of turf, it acts as a filter. So, the water quality has actually improved since the golf course was put in and we no longer do the water tests. And I believe the town should have copies of all those water tests.

Um couple uh other comments. If the golf course wasn't there, there would have been a 250 lot build out. Was is that correct what you stated? Yeah, that's correct. We provided a conceptual plan for houses only and there was an additional 100 houses on the conceptual plan.

Uh on one side if you would have had a residential community they would be drawing water from from this area. Um the two water districts I believe um had no objections. Um the other part is this water some of it obviously will evaporate but most of it will go back into the ground. Um know it's a tough call the whatifs um I think uh conditionally the board could put um some provisions on the whatifs uh moving forward. Um the other key part of the golf course is it's seasonal. Um however, the majority of the use of the water is when uh the water is less in the the months of the year u where we tend to have less rain. Um it however it is seasonal use. Um s uh the gentleman uh mentioned uh ahead um and are you for sure needing this 50 gallons per day, 72,000 gallons per day. Is that what you need or is that is that what you're projecting or is that kind of like your optimum?

So that would be um the the the least amount or or the maximum I would need to get keep the greens and tees alive. So um the greens and tees are uh they take about 32 to 35,000 gallons of water per night. That's based on one sprinkler turning for 14 minutes um with the number of sprinklers around the greens and teas. So if I were to just water greens and teas tonight, it would be about 70,000 gallons of water. And you only Sorry,

just to give you some more numbers. Um um we are the second largest golf course in central Mass behind the International and Bolton. Um, so it's a very big property, but as far as water goes, we're probably one of the uh least amount users. Um, the most I've ever used at high fields in a given season is 15 million gallons. Um, that's when I was getting an adequate amount of town water. Um, just to give you a reference, when I was at Blackstone National, our average was 23 million gallons a year. Um, they had five wells that would produce 290 gallons a minute and they still had water issues. Um, that was their only source was well water, but it was five wells for 290 gallons a minute total with all them working at the same time. Um so just you know on average I would say um up around 11 12 million gallons a year. Um and again um the well is on an average of 3 and a half months. Um depending on the weather um it could be on slightly longer and it could be on not at all for the season. So it's very weather dependent on whether I need this or not. Um, I've been at Highfields for 23 years. We know the property very well. I know the property very well. Um, we invest a lot of money in wedding agents. And for those who don't know what wedding agents are, um, they help the water work effectively. So, you can have two types of wedding agents, say we have a very wet April. I can use a wett agent that will pull the water through the green to

firm it up so it's not mucky and and getting algae, things like that. And the more important one in droughts, I can put down a wett agent which allows the water to hold in the in the soil profile longer. Um, so there's so many different tools I use to help us water effectively. Um, I I know people think golf course, they think pesticide spraying, water throwing monger, but that's not who I am. Um, I manage the water. I'm probably I consider myself the one of the best water managers in the state just for the little bit of water I have. Um, and again, we're willing to let certain areas of the golf course go um so that we can keep the course open and not rely heavily on wellwater. Um, again, the focus is the greens and TE's and if it comes to just the greens, it comes to just the greens. Uh, but that's the asset we need to stay open. So, just to uh reiterate, so you only water at night, correct?

Yes. The main cycles water at night. And another thing we do to kind of uh get us through the summer is we do a lot of hand watering. So, we do a lot of scouting. Um we do a lot of hand watering and just kind of hitting certain heads here and there. But yes, most of the watering is done at night. And then if you have a rainy night, you skip walk the sprinkling. If I am in my pajamas, I get back in my truck and I come here and I shut every irrigation clock off because I know how valuable that is and I know that uh we can't waste this water.

Um and then uh what was my last comment? Um so I mean from a board's perspective you have the ability to make conditions. Uh again we can't predict the weather. Um go back I forget was it like three or four years my timeline kind of mushes uh now that I'm older but when we had drought um

what how did you get by? Uh we lost the fairways. But um again uh what I learned from that drought, which was epic, um was that grass is resilient. Okay, so the fairways we let go. We were a little dinged up come springtime, but they came back. Uh the issue with the greens and the TE's is they're primarily made of a sand. The greens are a 9010 sand pete mix. So, um, they go very quickly and once they go, you're looking at receding the next year. Um, same with TE's are a little better. They're like a 60 sand 6040 sand soil mix. Um, but the fairways, which are just, you know, soil, uh, we let go. Uh, they were white. They were completely white. Um, but they did come back. So, that's a threshold that I learned we can handle. We can handle letting the fairways go. Um, you know, we had we had one of the driest falls last year. I think it was the driest on record for New England. And, um, go figure, I decided to blow my system out a week early. But, um, you look at the fall and you look at cooler nights, you look at or cooler days, longer nights. the turf was willing to stretch it out a little bit. We actually used the company hydro seedar just to get the greens through. Um but that was, you know, if that drought last fall had occurred in the summer, we would have been in real trouble.

But yes, the last last five years we've seen two very uh impressive droughts in New England. Yeah.

And I guess my last what happened with your access to town water? Uh so again, Matt Pearson um was a great we had a great relationship. He would, you know, obviously he would tell me when and uh how much to to use. And I've got an old bill here from this might have been the year he retired. I'm not sure, but 2020, it looks like I purchased 3.7 million gallons from the town of Grafton um that summer. Um but uh you know now it's um we have to there's a water backflow pretor that goes in our pond and if you don't use it a lot the seals dry up so it's a lot to maintain that backflow pre uh pre uh pretor um just because we don't use it as much as maybe other businesses use them. We only use it in the summertime. Um, so every spring those seals have frozen up and it's a process to get that uh to pass inspection and then to only find out that I can run it at night for a very low volume. Um, it's just it's just not uh feasible for us.

Okay. Um, so those would be my questions and comments. Uh so you know the board does have the ability to make conditions planning board to make conditions. Uh so beyond that I'm good. Thanks Phil. Um and um I'll read one final um comment that came in uh through the Q&A and then um board members I'd like us to focus our questions for Migill. Um how this works just so folks that don't know is we close the public hearing and then we can vote after that. Um it is just essentially that we've you know kind of finished um all the Q&A. So thank you for your patience as we've allowed folks to engage. Um so from Ann Margaret White from 57 Old Upton Road. I've enjoyed having close access to High Fields Golf Course and I'm happy that the course provides enjoyment and open space for our town and provides employment. However, water has become a scarce resource. Even here in Massachusetts, Highfields has options for water. Their golf course, including wells, town water, as well as rainwater. And a butter like myself. However, my family and I have only one option for fresh water for my home, well water. My house is far from the road, and tapping into town water is not an option. When it rains, the greens and tea boxes will get water. Well water can also supplement uh and town water can also be used but if my well runs dry because more and more people rely on their shared aquifer I will lose access to fresh water and I have no option to supplement my home becomes uninhabitable. Um and uh and Margaret I've copied your comments so that we can um have those for the record. Thank you for your comments. Um, Bill and Karen. Um, do you have any questions for uh the folks from McGill?

This is Karen. I don't have any additional questions at this moment in time that haven't already been asked.

Bill, are you any questions? Yeah, you know, I I I mean, I think that the issue is um what the um impact will be on the surrounding um water users that are dependent upon wells. Um it does sound like the um the uh golf course has made um you know quite significant um attempts to u optimize the use of the water that uh they currently have available. It's not clear to me what the um situation was with um not being able to get as much water from the uh Grafton public system, but I suspect since we're in a um water conservation period, that's probably related to that. Um, I know when the golf course was first uh considered, there was even discussion of potentially taking water from the river. Um, and there were negotiations with the state and so forth. And um uh I I I gather that was abandoned after um you know a really good try at that or having river water spill into a retention pond down near the river. Um but I you know I think it it really comes down to um not jeopardizing the access to wellwater for people who are in the same proximity and dependent upon the same aquifer.

Um but you know um as was alluded to um um the golf course even provided some access to uh public water for some of us um in the neighborhood. Um um and we went from being dependent on a well um to being on town water in part because of that. Um so um you know I I think it's a difficult um situation but um uh anything that would jeopardize the access to water and adjacent um homeowners who are dependent upon wells is a prime consideration.

Thanks Bill. Sure. Go ahead. Okay. Um I have a question. uh you may have talked about it but um with regards to the issue with the water like why you need to take a new well is it because uh you're not able to get the water from the town of Grafton or is it the cost associated with it which is driving you to um so yeah we're just um again partially weather partially we're not getting uh the access from the town that we used to um so we're looking for a more feasible way. They they would rather not sell us the water. They made that clear.

Yeah. Yeah. I think uh and again, you know, there must have been something put in when it was built that, you know, we this was a big project. There must have been some sort of agreement for water and it's just slowly disappeared and here we are. Uh, and again, I I want everybody to know that listen, when I turn that irrigation system on, I lose sleep until it's off. I study the weather. I I do not waste water up there. Um, and you know, if if we do get this well, um, and hearing all the concerns, I would treat it that way that this is very important to the community. Um, and I certainly wouldn't abuse it. Um, again, 23 years, I consider myself one of the best water managers. Um, we know the property very well. We use a ton of investment in wedding agents. Um, you know, we do a lot of handwatering. Um, again, the property, uh, just a little side note, we're trying to make it as environmentally friendly as possible. I have four bee pollinator gardens that are up and beautiful right now. I plan on expanding those. We've grown some of these areas of the golf course that uh we were mowing that are out of play and we're just letting them go because it reduces our carbon footprint. Um it reduces our labor costs, our fuel costs. So, we're letting some of these areas go. So, I'm trying to make this um a better place for the community as much as I can. Um, and when it comes to water, I know it's a Listen, I know it's a very hot topic. Um, but you know, I I I all I can say is I would I would manage it as crucial as I could, you know, as as carefully as I could.

Another question, and Phil had kind of spoken a little bit about like uh talked about it. Have you looked at what other towns have done to address issues like this? Have they done anything different from what you're thinking?

Um, yeah. So again, a lot of courses lo use a lot more um water than I do. Um I don't know exactly. Uh again, I came from Blackstone. We had five wells and they produced 290 gallons a minute together. Um and they still had to go to the town to ask for access to a swamp that was abudding the property to pull additional water from there. Uh I know uh if people are familiar with Shining Rock and Northbridge, they have access to the river. Uh I believe it's the Blackstone

where it just simply a switch gets turned on when the pond lowers down and the water flows up from the river. Um I know that you know if you with the state of Massachusetts if you breach a 100,000 gallons a day was it we had000 we had to report we had to do a special report to the state to show that um you know if if there was a they they call it a drought monitor which um we keep a close eye on but if that state drought monitor reaches a crucial level level the town will tell you to hold off on that uh water supply. Um yeah,

I spoke with the new owners of Pleasant Valley last week and they told me they just installed the new well down by their uh irrigation pond. One other comment I'd like to make is some of these comments I've read from the Abutters. They keep referring to this as an additional well, what we're going to call it is a alternate well because if we have success with a new well, we we won't be using the old well. So, it's not our intention to keep two wells up and running. We're just looking for one better well than the one we have now. So, it's not an additional well, it's an alternate well.

That's helpful. Thank you. Um, I had a couple of questions. The first being just for our knowledge, um, if if a well an additional well was to be put in about how long does it take to to drill that and because I'm imagine, you know, it's a little bit of a disruption in the area when that happens as well. I would say a couple weeks to drill. But again, we would have to uh tie a line from that well to the irrigation pond, which is a couple hundred yards. It'd be be some time to to do that as well. But in order to drill the well, uh find the yield on that well, I would say a couple weeks for them to perform that. And would that be during the day or at night? Typically,

no, that would be during the day. Yeah. Um and once if if approved um if once that was performed and you didn't know the depth and how much it was actually producing, right? Um that would be data that could be shared back as as one of the conditions. Um and I'm assuming, you know, you've you've talked a little bit about all the different things you've done to be a good steward of your current resource. Um, even if you did have a better producing well that you converted to, um, I never like to assume things, but I would assume that those same good stewards, especially around times of drought, would still be employed.

Oh, no doubt. Um, again, I can see the concern here and um, again, I've been in this town for 23 years working for the McGills, and I intend to continue that with a good relationship with the town. Um, and again, uh, let's just let's just run a scenario. Say I go through my three-phase process and I get to uh say the early August or middle of August and I still have that second pond that I haven't used. Here's a scenario. I would shut that well off, use that surface water in the second pond knowing that that could potentially get me through the rest of the year. Um so these are just scenarios that we would use to conserve as much water as possible. Sure.

Another comment I read with some of these abutters was, "What about additional runoff?" And the answer is there'll be zero additional runoff because we never irrigate to the point where we create runoff. Right. Right. It just doesn't happen, you know. And again, one other point, we're not removing this water from the site. It's just simply coming to the surface, falling right back down. It's not, you know, like water transport. We're not taking it out of Grafton to fill a swimming pool in Sudbury. you know, this is just coming up back down to the ground through the soil profile. Um, yeah.

So, we are going to stop comments so that the board can start to to do some deliberation. That is if um if a board member would like to make said motion or unless you have additional.

Yeah, go ahead. Um, so let me just preface this by saying that I believe that High Fields is and has been a good neighbor in Grafton and McGill Associates since the time of your father has been a a good neighbor in Grafton. And I believe that you guys do have a legitimate need for the water and that you've exhausted your options. Um, uh, and that you have been good stewards of the water that you have. Um, but I also, you know, as has been mentioned several times here before, we have to be sure before we vote that we're balancing

your needs with the public's needs. And um the group of abutters that expressed a concern um had a had a concern that this might contravene the section of the the town's well regulations that say irrigation systems connected to approved drinking water wells will be allowed only when in the opinion of the board there's sufficient capacity to sustain both residential service and irrigation. This is a well serving as an irrigation system. So you know in the opinion of the board there is sufficient capacity to sustain both residential service and irrigation. I at this moment I don't have the knowledge necessary to know whether you know there is sufficient capacity because it it hasn't been presented to us and these questions have been on you know the the town's website um for weeks to months depending on when they were

right received. um what you know I I I want everyone to be happy. I want yeah you guys to get what you need to continue to run your business, but I also want to be able to reassure the public that their residential wells will continue to function and um you know is there we heard from a subject matter expert that testing can be done um is has it not been done because of the expense? Uh I I I didn't even know. I don't know. I don't I don't know anything about testing for impact on aquafer and pump testing. Two of the the abutters letters mentioned it and then the gentleman in green election.

No, you can't test until they drill it, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean by that time invest a lot of money. It doesn't work out neighbors, right? Is there So you're saying we drill the well and then run it for a long period of time before we can period of time. Not quite sure that would be complex system. Well, I mean and the town's well regulations. If that was the case, why don't we drill the well and run it for a period of time and if it becomes a problem and it's obviously causing a problem for other wells in the neighborhood, then that's the test. Well, the gentleman just stated, you know, Right.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's how we would uh obviously that's how we would probably go about it was drill it, run it, and see the impact. Well, the the town's well regulations do call for a pump test to be performed, but it's at five gallons a minute, you know, and you guys are estimating 50. So, we would need to modify. We're hoping. We're hoping. I don't think we're to be honest, I'm willing to bet we'd probably get around 30. We'd be h we'd be happy with 30. Yeah. And you know, right now we get 15 and it can't even be left on. It's only 15 for a certain amount of hours. It's just totally un you know, our only other option is to frack the existing well that we have

and that's very expensive. So in talking to Chelton Well, he says you could basically drill another well for the cost of fracking the existing well and he recommends that as opposed to fracking the existing one. Yeah. You think we'll have a better chance of getting But but you also did indicate too that you would be transitioning from that well to this new well, right? Yes. It wouldn't be sort of back and forth. Uh if we get adequate water from this well, then yeah, we would take that one offline. Yeah.

Okay. I'm going to let two more one comment here and one comment there and then we we really I mean we're never going to get to a decision if we just keep asking. I think the board does have to deliberate some. So, uh, if you want to come up to the microphone, um, and while you're getting here, Joe, did you have a comment?

Well, thank you, Madam Chair. Again, my comment was, and I think Jay McIll did a nice job of sum summarizing it, you know, to the extent that a test is the only way to figure it out. Perhaps we drill the well and then the board condition um put conditions on the test results as to whether it can be used. That's a significant expense on our part, but it might be a better test than having someone just opine as to what the possible removal of the water would be.

Yeah. And I mean, I think that's helpful to hear that you would be open to a condition as such. Um I mean, obviously that's an expense to you all, but I think as Andrew said, u the biggest concern is is ensuring that you know, uh the the resources are sustained for um the the residents as well. I I I'm venturing a guess here, but if they can achieve the amount of water that you want out of this well, chances are it's going to have a dewatering effect on other wells because this is a very limited aquifer in terms of flowing through fractures in the rock, right? It's not a sand and gravel aquifer that's pretty vast.

So, I I think that's what you're going to be facing. If you're doing a proper pump test, it probably would reflect that. But, you know, you you have to be monitoring a lot of wells to determine exactly how this is interacting. Mhm. Did you um I'm sorry, I forgot. I turned on. No, no, you're good. I heard you. Uh the gentleman behind you, I didn't know if you had a final comment before we

Ken Hullberger at 47 Road. I first like to address the comment made that when you put the water out from thousands a thousand more than a thousand feet underground and you spread it on the surface, it goes into the surface that it doesn't leave the town. Well, it doesn't go back, thousand feet down for someone else's well to pull the water. It gets spread on the ground and I think it probably makes its way into the Blackstone River and leaves the town. So, that's not true. Once it comes up from a thousand feet, it doesn't go back down a thousand feet. And the other thing I'd like to observe is that you guys have are doing an admirable job of managing your business and this managing the scarcity and the expense of water to to water the course, but that is a cost of your business.

Yeah. And in effect, what you're asking that this board to do is to grant you the right against regulations that were formulated for a purpose to allow you to drill well and have essentially free water after that point at quantity in vast, you know, at compared to residential use, vast quantities. and and it allows you to avoid the expense of purchasing the water on the open market and having it trucked in if that's your the last resort. And you've done that before and presumably you can do that again. And a business should pay market rate for their expenses. They should be granted access free access to public resources.

Thank you. And there's no public benefit for that. There's a b a commercial benefit, but it doesn't run to the public. Thank you for comments. Okay. Um members of the boards, any further questions before we close the public hearing portion and then deliberate on any further motions. Can I ask one first? Sure.

Um so Mr. Mr. Antonellis, in 2014, the public hearing for the previous well, the existing well, um there were five conditions imposed. Um one of which was that meter readings were going to be forwarded to the health department and that uh another was that um you'd come back in two years um for renewal uh based on compliance to the other four uh conditions. To my knowledge, neither of those things ever happened. Mike, you mentioned that readings were sent to someone, but perhaps not to the health department for the monitor. Wells.

Well, I'm not. Early on in our conversation, you you mentioned that some kind of data was being relayed to the town of Grafton. I'm not sure if that was related to the So, yeah. Uh, we did the testing was done by Lakeshore Environmental. Oh, not the not the waller quality test. Oh, maybe I misunderstood. Okay. Yeah. So then it sounds like neither of those two conditions which were set for the previous well were ever fulfilled. Yes.

So I don't know, Mr. Anteneellis, was that an oversight? I just want to make sure that there is more transparency and compliance if if we agree to this variance um that these things will actually be followed through upon. Well, I I don't want to I want to sound disrespectful. I'm going to ask that question absolutely honestly. I wasn't involved with the permitting of that well, but I'm involved with the peritting of this well. And so, if I see a decision that has conditions in it, I will send my client notations on those decisions as I have with the other decisions in the town of Oakdale relative to the planning board and the conservation commission. But I I was not involved in the peritting of the will. So, I I can't speak to it because I don't even know what the conditions were.

Okay. I apologize for

No, it's a fair it's a fair question and I'm just trying to give you the answer that I the best answer I can in that regard and and the tests the earlier test that mentioned were were rel related to soil quality from the original. Yeah, what Andrew is referring to is um we do have the original five conditions just from meeting minutes in fact from uh the last hearing and it was uh meter readings will be forwarded to the health department for two years and then the permit being the renewal and then there's three other conditions about um essentially the the well I'll just read them. Uh one was the controls for the watering must be in a secured building. Two, watering will be restricted to the golf course only. three moisture indicators, rain sensors uh must be installed and then four meter readings will be forwarded to the health department for two years. Five, this permit will be subject to renewal in two years at which time compliance to these conditions will be reviewed. Um and um you know what I would say is is if if we were to do something uh with conditions um I don't know that we would mirror these same ones just given our conversation here today. You know certainly I think um the things we'd want to understand is you know how far is drilled down how much is it producing um you know the the the pump test um as we talked about to I think you know what we've heard none of us are experts I don't think in this and you don't really know even with testing necessarily

what the impact is going to be. um you know so I think another condition uh might also be that you know obviously Nancy in particular um the board of health gets many calls some of things that are in our purview and some are not um but if there are changes to the um availability of water and it's not necessarily in a drought um you know we know folks are going to point somewhere and it's going to be there's a new well and it's creating all these things and so um you know one condition might be that you know we we may call back and say listen um this is what we're hearing. We need to make some adjustments um and understanding that when somebody gets a well it's their private well and they can do what they want to do. But in sort of that spirit of um being a good steward of the resource and um that it that it's a business also possibly impacting residents that may be a condition that we have to to consider. Just putting it out there as a

absolutely thought. I want to just go back to my original question uh with regards to uh the actual need for this. Well, yes. Um I heard a couple things from uh folks at the uh from the uh you know uh the audience here as well that um you're a commercial property and you should be able to buy it. Now, I also heard you say that um that the town of Grafton isn't giving you the water. Is that the reason why you have to build the well or is it the cost associated with it? Are you still able to procure the water? They no longer want to sell us water. Yeah. When we first built the place, they were willing to, but now they're no longer willing to

Yeah, we we were willing to buy the water and we paid the the fee for the purchase of that water. Um I think it's just uh they want us off the system. Um, I think part of the reason they don't want to sell us the water is because they now treat the water and I don't think there's a shortage of raw water. I think there's a shortage of treated water that they treat to put in their pipeline. So, as far as drying up the town well, I don't think they have a dry well. They have a problem with water that's been treated.

Okay. The other thing is that I think the the concerns that um the town people have are very legitimate that you know they I mean the well should not be like impacting their day-to-day need for water but uh you know the one way to look whether first of all whether there's enough water coming through this is through whatever the drilling part the other thing is looking at other towns you mentioned that the other town that had similar issues they dug the you know they had a new well uh that they take uh dug a new well Did that impact the people in that town? Like what was that impact there? That can also help us. I know that's a hypothetical question that you will need to find more answers to.

Well, I spoke of Pleasant Valley is new. They they just put it in. So, there's no way to know that of any impact on that one. How about the wells over at Blackstone? Any negative impact? Uh there were no negative impacts to those five wells. Um yeah, and I mean there's not a whole lot. It's not like high fields. It's, you know, it's more of a wooded area that um Blackstone National is in. Um so no, there were no known impacts to the surrounding area. I can imagine comparative analysis would be difficult in that case though because we're all working out of different systems, right? We're not sitting in the same place.

A lot of courses are strictly off of town system. I know Malbor Country Club is strictly off of town system. Um, so yeah, everybody's got a different, you know, some have good lakes nearby where they can draw from and um, right. So it varies quite a bit from course to course. Yeah,

I I will note just because it's come up a few times here. Um, we did receive um that is posted to the website comments back from the planning board, the South Grafton Water District, and the other water district. Um, all three of those parties indicated no concerns with proceeding. um you know, they didn't indicate, you know, one way or the other if they were in favor or or not. They just didn't have concerns to share with us. Um just since we brought them up a few times, and again, the goal is for me to be a good neighbor and continue that. Um I don't want to impact anybody negatively in any way. Um and I would treat that well accordingly.

Thank you. All right. Would anybody like to make a motion to um close the public hearing portion and then the board will deliberate on next steps? This is Andrew Chalupa. I move to close the public hearing. I second it. Her first meeting by the way, so she's trooper. Um roll call. Andrew Chulipka. I

Karen Wowski Govin I Jen Maynard I

All right thank you um me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me members of the public you're obviously welcome to stay as we continue to deliberate we haven't uh made a decision as of yet um you know we may make one here tonight in this deliberation but that just kind of ends the public comment period um hopefully we don't have any questions for you folks since we have asked quite a few um so I I will start with a little commentary and then offer other members of the board if they have anything that they want to suggest. Um you know um I think if any members are leaning towards approving I think at a minimum we have to um consider as we we've talked about um the uh drilling of the well um with the pump uh drilling of the well finding out you know how far it goes down how much it's producing uh performing those pump test pump tests per minute um before sort of flipping the switch to to fully use it. Um and then uh would also um probably recommend some uh media readings um if we were to uh proceed. I don't know if we have a number of uh how much it should produced through the pump testing permitting per minute. Um and then I I think we also probably need to have some sort of stipulation around um you know uh complaints from the community that we receive if any um if said well was to be put in place. uh about um concerns.

Yeah, Jen, I would agree with that. Um I I think that the pump nest pump test needs to be reflective of actual usage rather than what's what's in our um town guidelines, which you know is potentially a tenth of that. Um and demonstrate adequate recovery, right, without negative impacts on on residential wells. And I agree that um you know after a a period of a few years um we need to review any public you know complaints or feedback that have been received um regarding the well and you know at least at least a one-time renewal.

Yeah. And I would even probably bring it back to within a year of utilization. Um, just just because I don't know, I like to shower and if my shower my water pressure was impacted, I don't I don't live anywhere near um you know, I I would probably not want to wait two years until my water pressure could be uh possibly corrected. Um, you know, I' I'd like to hope that um, you know, we we wouldn't come down that path, but I I would like to see that we have some sort of recourse once it's drilled to be able to say it's impacting uh, folks. you know, we we've talked at this meeting about some things that are not within our jurisdiction, uh, with water issues in town that we haven't been able to address. And so, um, you know, some safeguard I think would be would be helpful.

I agree with whatever you've mentioned. I think those are um, uh, important things for us to know. Um, and um, I know the comparative analysis is not something we can do. Uh but I think those are that might help address some of the questions that and the concerns that uh the the public have shared. So yeah, I think we would be open to any data that that's shared about um experience in in other locations close to ours. You know, I think that's just helpful. I think we're all learning about this process um as as we're kind of trying to get through it. Yeah.

Karen or Bill Bill, you're off mute. Did you have something to add? Uh, no. No, I don't really have one yet. Um, I I would point out that um I'm at a butter to the golf course and so I have to recuse myself from any votes that are made on this matter. Thanks, Bill.

This is Karen. I same sentiment that if we go forward with deciding to grant the well, there definitely, I think, need to be conditions put in place, the pump test, etc. And this time, make sure that any conditions, whether it be meter readings, timing, etc. Definitely I don't want us to wait 2 years to review complaints potentially or concerns. Um definitely would be a shorter time frame and make sure you know from a renewal period etc that those are held up and actually happening.

Yeah. Any other discussion from the board? Do any members of the board have any motions to suggest at this p point? I cannot do it. As your chair,

this is Andrew Chalupa. I make a motion um that the request for variance at 42 McGill Drive for McGill Associates uh be granted with the following conditions. Uh number one, that a pump test be performed after drilling but before uh starting operation of the well. Um reflective of the actual proposed usage um and that the um use of the well be tied to whatever level was uh the pump test was performed at. Mhm.

Um number two, um that uh public feedback uh regarding any potential or any actual impact on residential uh well usage as reported to the board of health uh be reviewed by the board of health. Um number three um that after a period of one year following the start of the operation of the well um the permit um be subject to renewal uh at the next board of health meeting. Um and number four that um uh metering meter readings uh be communicated uh to the board of to the health department office.

How often? Uh quarterly. Thank you. Okay. Is there a second? I can't. Radika Prau, I second the motion. Uh, roll call. Andrew Chalupka. I radika prau. Iron go. Bill, would you like to? Bill Muller abstain.

Jen Maynard. I Okay. Um, so motion passes with those conditions. Um, we will set those forth in writing so it's a little clearer. Uh, not you did a great job, Andrew. Thank you. Um, we will set forth those conditions. And I think, um, I hope you won't mind that we'll want to be in communication around timeline of when drilling starts and so that we are on top of our timeline because, you know, we we also need to be on top of the the monitoring piece as well as our a part of our role as the board. So, thank you for all of your time and answering questions. Thank thank you to the board. Thank you for the professional manner in which the hearing was conducted. We really appreciate it. Good evening everyone. Thank you.

Um and as we said, folks are more than welcome to stay. We're going to continue on briefly for the rest of our meeting today. Hi Phil, are you leaving? Are you staying? Bye. Thank you for your time and your help. All right. Nobody ever wants to hear what the rest of the board of the health talks about, but you're welcome to stay on. We'd love for you to talk to or listen in. Thanks, folks. What happens if wells go dry? I'm sorry. What happens if wells go dry? So, I think in the the one-year review period, then the the permit would not be renewed.

What happens when it goes dry, though? What are they going to do? Who's going to supply the water? So what what I can say so what I can say to you is that if that does happen, we do want you to call the board because we will absolutely be in touch with with we will I mean we we will and I think I we we are committed to to monitoring this based on homeowners still without water. So what's what's going to happen? Who's going to deal with that? Is the is the town going to put the homeowner in a hotel for however long it takes to recover?

So, we're not going to be able to answer that question for you today. Um, but you know, certainly we we need phone calls if people I would hope that folks start calling um and maybe we'll socialize this a bit more on our website as well if before you're seeing signs of it drying or like you know you're seeing signs of your water pressure and all those things. See signs of water pressure. You know, water pressure is going to be there because it's pumped into a pressure tank. Sure. And it's been going to be pretty constant. Yeah. What happens is you don't get any more. So you turn on the tap. So what happens if you We really do appreciate your feedback and you coming and sharing your expertise today. We did make our decision. Um we will do the best we can to to shield residents. Um

I think you need to revisit if you're not interested from that question.

Okay. Thank you for your your comments. Okay. Uh so I I know members I'll try to uh we don't have a ton of stuff on our agenda today because um folks probably heard uh we are not with the um the alliance any longer. We are in the process of forming a new alliance with um Shrewberry and West Boilston. Um and they are just about ready. They have taken on some of the things that um the alliance was doing for us. uh and they will start coming to our our meetings uh once everybody is identified uh on that team. Um so for flu RSV updates um we do still have a link to the alliance. Um they were following us up until July 1st. So um any updated um you know um uh rates that we're seeing in the community um you know typically what we've been hearing is that those have been decreasing. Uh but we can link to those. Uh we have heard that this is a pretty busy uh tick and mosquito season. Uh we do have um the arbor virus and all those things linked on our website as well because we do get those reports from um from the state uh as well as the um spraying schedules um are available online. Uh I want to pause and see if any members have anything additional to add at this point. I know the alliance usually reads a lot of different things. Um, but we're hopefully through for the most part flu and RSV uh season, but still could probably have a few things. That's just Karen. There's definitely still some COVID floating around. I know a few people who have popped positive with COVID, including then I know there's one or two new variants that they've been talking about coming

around, too. So, I think we're kind of in that general like slight uptick, then it'll might come back down, back up again, you know, kind of where we've been status quo for since we get out of the height of it. Yeah. And we should note, you know, um some recommendations around vaccines have um changed. Uh that said, all vaccines uh for flu, COVID, and RSV are still available for folks that do want them. And we talked about ticks and mosquitoes. Um, Bill, anything to report on the opioid settlement funding?

Well, we have uh operationalized our relationship with the um the people in Southampton and um I think I think are really pretty much far ahead of where most other municipalities are. So, we're hoping that this will be um a major step in the right direction.

Great. Thank you. Um I'm just going to reverse the order a little bit for the ambulance sum committee. Um we are planning on doing some stakeholder meetings around ambulance calls um to see if um we can have some uh to to reduce calls that don't really pres uh end up in a transfer. Um working with some of those different communities. um for any resources they might need to mitigate those calls. Um and then emergency kits. Um all those things are still in flight. They're a little bit on pause since we have been a little bit lean uh with um the alliance. Uh but um we will be sk scheduling some of those meetings and following up, but we wanted to get a little bit more settled with um the new alliance as well because we know um everybody's sort of pulling uh to get things accomplished right now. So that's our update right now. We haven't forgotten. Um and then we have another um so our FEP representation has changed. Um when I've spoken to folks sitting there um our new alliance should sit as our primary person on the FEP for representation. So we do need to nominate an alternate. I think that should be sufficient right now as long as our alternate can make the meetings that are pretty much virtual. Um, and so given that I know we had some um exchange on folks interested in doing that, did anyone want to make a motion on nominating a FEP representative?

This is Andrew Chalupka. Uh, I make a motion that Jen Maynard uh, No. Oh, sorry. Uh, I make a motion that Bill Mueller be uh our FEP representative. Sorry, Andrew. Thought you needed one more thing. I know. I need one more thing. I second the motion. Thank you, Adika. Uh, roll call. Andrew Slip. Radiku. I Mayor Gustes go. Do I get the vote? I'd say you could abstain. Abstain. Jen Maynard and I although I appreciate the photo confidence. I thought you were kidding. Yeah.

Thank you, Bill. We really appreciate you stepping in there. Um and um yeah, we should we should be all set for when the new alliance comes on board and having an alternate. Um we also have two sets it I think it says three, but we have two sets of meetings uh meeting minutes, excuse me. Ben. Yeah. Are we going to do the reorg of the board? Oh, that's right. I didn't see that. Do we want to do that tonight? I know. I haven't really had an opportunity to chat with anybody if they're interested. We need to do that, don't we? We should really do that tonight. Yes.

Okay, fine. Uh, okay. Um, so, welcome Readika. We haven't even gotten to Welcome Readika. Welcome. Thank you for joining us. Um, welcome. Sorry. It's a it's been a a great meeting to learn off of and your quick study and so we're thrilled to have you. Um so we do need to talk about um because we have sort of a new a new round of um renewals. So the composition for chair, vice chair, and clerk, right Karen? Yes. If anybody is really interested in taking a role, please don't be shy. Um, but would anybody like to make a nomination or make um motions?

This is Karen Gazeski Govin. I make a motion that we um appoint Jen Maynard as chair. This is Andrew Chalupka. I second that correctly. Uh roll call vote. Andrew Chalupka. I radical. Sorry. I Karen Gusteski Goven I. Jen Maynard abstain. Is that for a term of one year? Typically, it's one year each time. All right. Fine. Um, all right. Done a great job. Oh, thanks. Thanks so much. Uh, for vice chair, Karen cannot make a nomination if she's planning to stay seated. Uh, would anybody like to make a motion?

This is Andrew Chalupka. I make a motion that Karen Guyski Govin uh be vice chair of the board of health. Second. Radika Prau. I second it. Roll call. Andrew Lukai. Radiku. Bill Muller. I Darren Weski. Go abstain. Jen Maynard. I Hey, nice. Uh, and then finally, clerk. You're our clerk, right, Bill? Is it? No, we need a new We need a new Dan. Dan used to be

Oh. Oh, okay. Um, Karen, did you have somebody in mind? I might. No, I too hadn't really thought that much about I was thinking about the public hearings. H um if uh if he's open for it. I know he's also the second newest member of the board, but I think Andrew would make a wonderful clerk. Um Bill, I think he would also make a wonderful clerk. Uh but we've also um made you take on a few things as well. So if you do want to duke it out, it's up to you. Um, but is it is everybody open to it if we were to nominate one of you? I concede to Andrew.

I concede to Andrew. Oh boy. What are your thoughts? Okay. Okay. All right. Well, that's a consent. Uh, Karen, would you like to make a motion? Sure. This is Karen Gusti Goen. I make a motion that we nominate Andrew Jaluca as clerk for the board of health. Second. Um Radika Prau I second the motion. Great. Roll call. Del Muller. I Karen Guzki, you have an eye. Radika prau. Andrew Chiluk abstain.

Jen Maynard. I thank you for your service. You'll do great. Um all right. No, for real. We have two sets of minutes to um approve. If I can find it. Uh May 5th and June 16th. Um and Madika, you were not here, so feel free to abstain and not second. Um this is Andrew Chalupa. I vote or I uh propose we approve the minutes from May 5th and June 16th. I think we have to do them separately. Oh, sorry. Sorry.

This is Andrew Chalupa. I propose that we uh approve the May 5th board of health minutes. Is there a second? This is Karen Guzki. Govin. I second that motion. Roll call. Andrew Chalupka. I Karen Weski Govin. I Bill Muller. I go. Jen Maynard. I This is Andrew Chalupka. I propose that we accept the June 16th board of health minutes. This is Karen Gazeski Go. I second that motion. Andrew Chuka. I Karen Gazeski Govin. Was I at the meeting? Oh,

I think you can still vote even if you're not at the meeting.

You can still vote. That's the uh Oh, okay. Well, then Bill Muller I Radika

Jen Maynard I and June 16th was the joint meeting with the Shrewsbury folks and Grafton and Boilston all of them. Great. Um so those minutes are taken care of. Um upcoming meetings we have August 11th, September 8th, October 6th, November 10th and December 8th. Were we planning for those to be virtual or did we want to do anything hybrid? We have such a big audience now. Thank you for staying on those of you who have stayed on.

I can attend in person for hybrid meeting. Okay. Virtual is usually the safest option for me with work. I should be able to attend. Great. Um Nancy, if you can um find locations for us on these dates. Maybe we do August and September hybrid. I'm sorry. Yeah, hybrid and then maybe October through December virtual.

We'll give it a try. If you have any problems, let us know. We can we can adjust. And without further ado, would anybody like to make a motion to adjourn this meeting? If there's nothing else, this is Andrew Schlupa. I make a motion to adjourn the meeting. Is there a second? Go ahead. Go ahead. Ready? I second the motion. Roll call. Andrew Chalupa. I radi. Gary Wesowski. Go. I Jen Maynard. I thank you all very much for your help and um sticking through that. Have a great rest of your evening. We'll see you next month. Thanks everyone.

Thank you. Welcome again.