Affordable Housing Trust - Regular Meeting

It is 7:33 [clears throat] and I'm calling the uh April 2nd, 2026 meeting of the Affordable Housing Trust to order. Uh we will uh we'll start with the roll call. Um Mr. Crusher? Here. Mr. Upton? I am here. Ms. Roy? Here. And Brian Landers is here. All right. Uh so, we have uh public comment uh first. Uh I don't believe we have any members of the public uh at the meeting at the moment. Um and uh so, the next thing on the agenda is uh discussing uh with uh meeting with counsel to discuss legal services and current projects. So, uh we are uh with uh Kathleen uh wrapping up her practice and uh uh handing us off. We are going to be uh working with uh Harrington Heap uh going forward. Um I believe that uh Jenny from uh Harrington Heap will be I never remember if it's Harrington Heap or Harrington and Heap, but uh so, I'll probably say it both ways. Um so, she'll be on uh at 7:45. Um Okay. So, we can I guess come back to that in a bit. Um Mr. Chair? Yeah. Um with Mr. Giblin in the room, would you want to jump down to 1727 Upton? Yeah.

Um Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so uh Mr. [clears throat] Giblin, do you want to give us uh Sure. So, so similarly awkward to present. Um but um but yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to be here again to reintroduce myself. I'm Brendan Giblin, um partner in the 1727 Upton Street project we're calling the Griffin. Um wanted to be here just to provide a a quick update as well as answer answer any questions and Attorney Kathleen, it's been a a pleasure working with you. Um so, sorry to see you go. We were just getting in a groove, I felt like. [laughter] But no, thank

Yeah, well, unfortunately sailing is calling, so, yeah. Well, th- thank you for your your help, but just by way of of brief update, we have closed on the property. We are anxiously awaiting our start. Um we actually closed prior to having our um our our full partnership um involved just in an effort to really close with the town fellow. I think it was important. Um and intending on moving forwards. I think just some of the documents are coming together. We should be closing with our lender and limited partner sh- soon. However, we are um we're we're full steam ahead, so we're currently working our way through the pre-construction um list that we have with both planning and conservation. We've installed our erosion controls on site. A number of the items have been kind of crossed off the list along the way in the in the way of um pre-construction meetings, but we're just double-checking our list. Met with the building commissioner uh this morning to make sure that we were that we were on task and anxiously awaiting um really being able to get started there. Um getting started there soon. So, along with that, um one thing that um I had spoken with Colleen about um in particular was doing some sort of a groundbreaking. You know, we are really excited as a as a group and a partnership to kind of celebrate the partnership with the Affordable Housing Trust. Um we think it'd be great for the site. So, as as we had mentioned, I I kind of thought that it would make sense to maybe get the site cleaned up a little bit and really as we start to see like some start of some product, the building maybe coming up. Which should be short order. That should be sometime this summer. So, anytime this summer, um you know, come fall time, I think we can do that and you know, we're um open to suggestions and and trying to help to pull that together.

Sure. And along with the start of um construction, you know, we had spoken I think the last time I was here, you know, expectations about um the pre-development funding um with the grant and then the um actual development with the grant. As I've reread through all of the agreements that I have, there's no real formal schedule. Um I've had some conversations including um with Kathleen about maybe some of the items that might be excluded. So, I thought you know, kind of in informally here just to get get a better sense. I think Kathleen, one of the items you mentioned was kind of an exclusion of town fees um being paid via the grant. Well, you would asked or somebody had asked on your behalf about paying, you know, the town connection fees and those sorts of things with the grant funds. And the answer on that has always been no, we would not be using town funds to pay town bills. Um it's also not on the list of the um uh you know, the schedule that we got as part of this budget um from the your you know, from your investor, you know, the prior GSX Ventures. Um but just as a you know, just as a legal matter, we just can't be paying town fees with town money. Okay, and that makes sense. I think the only schedule that I've seen as [clears throat] an exhibit to the agreement were related to the pre-development. That is correct. And that pre-dev um budget, but I didn't necessarily see an exclusion, but if that is the case, that's that's super clear, but um just to clarify for for my sense, things like demolition, site work, um you know, outside of um town fees, that initial

phase of construction, we've got a um fairly aggressive build schedule, so, you know, we've got our kind of cash flow and the way that we intend to be requisitioning. Um Other than kind of town to town fees, are there any other sort of exclusions? Um No, I don't think so, but you know, the the the fact of the matter is that we haven't had any kind of updated budget since that pre-development one. So, you know, it would be really spectacular if um you provided us with a budget for this next step. Okay. But it not not you know, it doesn't have to be lockstep. I mean, you know, that oh my god, you can't, you know, change a nickel on it, but you know, it would be useful, I think at the certainly the trustees could speak to this, but I think it'd be useful to know what we you were spending our money on. Okay. And and super helpful. I as I looked through all all of the agreements that we have in our records, there was an exhibit, maybe exhibit B2, that never necessarily had an exhibit behind it. That's true. Yeah, I said the only thing we've gotten we only got was from you know, from John Grant was this pre-development budget. Okay. Well, we can certainly work to I think that the way the budget runs, you know, the initial part of the project with site work, foundation and concrete, um you know, the way that we'll be requisitioning, you know, I I think without even without the town fees, I think we'll be there in in short order, but we can certainly put together a more detailed budget as to how we would see that.

Yeah, I mean, I I'm not, you know, asking you know, I don't think we need to see, you know, unbelievable details, but I think it's useful for the trust to know what's coming down the you know, what's what the requests are going to be as they come in. I mean, I think you're right in that you're probably going to you know, use up the rest of the funds before the end of this year. Um and I wouldn't be surprised by that at all, but and that would be great, but um it would be useful to know what you're you know, the the trust would know what you were planning on doing with with the grant funds. Okay. Well, we can certainly do that. I think that it's certainly before the end of the year and probably within the next few months the way that the spend is projected on the project, but yeah, I can put something together, submit it and um and if any questions, you know, happy to come back in and and and discuss them, but that that's what I thought. It really had to do with that B2. There was no schedule, so I was just looking for for clarity on that. So, we can certainly put something in in place. Sounds good.

That'd be great. Okay. Um Colleen's got her hand raised. Yeah, I just wanted to um second everything Kathleen said. There are a lot of eyes on this project and and that gets asked of the trust a lot. Do we do we know where the money is going? How's the money getting spent and what do you have to show for it? So, um any and all documentation would be very much welcomed. Okay. [snorts]

Yeah, I mean, we have, you know, a a big it's a $38 million budget on the build. It's extremely detailed. I don't think that we don't necessarily need to have that, but I think, you know, the initial phase we can put something together that that, you know, will certainly um you know, clearly articulate where the money and where the spend is. Yeah. Sounds good. I think um one one question I had is I know the um the there was a little bit of a false start before closing took place and and I think there was some some clearing work that that happened before um before closing. Um, just speaking for myself in in this the the grant agreement, um, predates my involvement with the trust. Um, but not [clears throat] to say that I I would have done anything differently or or that I don't support the project. I just um, there are a lot of eyes on it and and we're closely intertwined, um, with the project and, you know, the more bad or or questionable looks we can avoid, the the better. So, um, you know, obviously everything's closed now and and you're in control of the site, but um, yeah, just any thoughts on To totally understood and we are very well aligned with that. You know, I'm also looking to to to run a tight ship. We had had, um, the ability to install the erosion controls, which required some selective clearing. There was a a wire or two crossed. Um, luckily we were scheduled to close, um, ex- extremely quick. I had you know, spoken to anybody that I could get a hold of to let them know the situation and let them know that we were there to, uh, you know, to to stand behind it and had significant deposits if there was ever some sort of a self-help, but

[snorts]

it was a relatively unfortunate, you know, glad it was at least, albeit minor and and probably part of the motivation to make sure that we got to that closing. So, we are now running through that the pre-construction list and all the decisions to make sure that we're checking off every box and meeting with all the different stakeholders to make sure that with our next official start that we are that that we're good to go. Sounds good. Um, Mr. Upton's got his hand raised. Uh, yeah, [clears throat] uh, I'll I'll third all the comments so far. Um, just we have, [clears throat] um, a lot of scrutiny, um, on how this money is spent. Um, and we're sort of uh, reporting this into uh, our CPC group. Um, another thing that's come up for us is just um, [clears throat] the detail that comes along with um, funding requests. Mhm. Um, so in particular we've had, uh, concerns about if now you have affiliated or operating companies that are subsidiaries or whatever that's um, if we're being invoiced that there are uh, some sufficient detail behind uh, the in- you know, the uh, the funding requests that come along. So, um, to the extent possible, uh, any you know, amount of detail that you can provide with the requested funding uh, would be really useful for us. Um, and again, uh, some of this is CYA, some of it is uh, just, you know, the trust making sure that it's uh, funds are being well spent and um, and whatnot. So, uh, No. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. With all funding requests as we move forward, it's going to be outside third-party subcontractors and vendors. Um, and could see how that could be a a little bit confusing in in the front side with one of the partners being

Yep. being also on on the side, but I think as as we move forward, it would be more outside subs, vendors, direct invoices previously paid by our G- you know, that'll be paid by the GC. Sure. Perfect. Should Should Should be Should be much more clear and you know, the I I think the the money spent is well documented as as to where we are and as we start to see the the building going, I I think hopefully, you know, your board will show in a in a in a good light. Sounds good. Great, thanks. All right. I don't see any other hands. Okay. [clears throat]

So, I will put together a bit of a schedule to try and have in your hands prior to the next meeting and the next meeting it'll be relatively normal course. We'll put together the requisition and present it and and come come before the board more typical to how it had been going. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, and to be honest, you know, I don't know that we've typically had a lot of um, you know, presentations or updates, you know, to to go with some of the the draw requests, but uh, I'm sure, you know, I'll I'll speak for myself, but I'm sure most of the trust would would probably agree that um, the more the the merrier. Okay. Um, we'll take all all the updates we can get. Great. We'll be in local. I'm I'm happy to do it. Sounds good. Okay. Thanks for coming in. Yeah, thank you for your time. Thank you. Okay, have a good night. Thank you.

Thanks, take care. All right, uh, so we have uh, Jenny Merrell on with us now, uh, from Harrington Heap. So, we can uh, move to our uh, meet with town council to discuss legal services and current projects uh, agenda item. Um, yeah, so I think the uh, kind of the the goal here is uh, to do uh, you know, a little bit of um, handoff with uh, what we're working on, what Kathleen has been uh, you know, doing for us. Um, and uh, make sure that uh, you know, that context kind of gets handed over. Um, but uh, yeah, uh, Jenny, do you want to I guess introduce yourself? Sure. Hi, good evening. Um, Jenny Merrell with Harrington Heap. We are town council now in Grafton and I'm looking forward to working with you all. And Kathleen, congratulations.

[laughter] It It's a been a slow It's a slow process, uh, you know, um, and it's and it's not uh, you know, it's not going very well, actually. [laughter]

Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. Um, I you know, sort of need more um, you know, sort of more ability to say no and all that sort of thing, but it's nice to meet you. And, you too. You too. Actually, I think we've met before. You were You were in my father's law school class. Uh, I don't think so. David? No? Oh, David, no, I was in his I was in his college class. Oh, okay then. Yeah, I remember I think I remember stories of you from way back. [laughter]

Um, anyway, happy to help you say no. Yeah. And you know, take the baton. I think that that's great. Um, I I think that's terrific. I really appreciate you doing that and uh, um, um, and I'm I'm happy to provide whatever I've got and you just let me know, you know, we'll do we can talk offline about what you need to get. I don't have that much. Most of the things are emails and that sort of thing, but um, but yeah.

Right. And I think we're at a good moment for this Upton Street project cuz they're actually closing. I mean, they actually bought it. Yep. Um, which is as you know, cuz you've been working on the financing for that. Um, so uh, that's a huge relief as far as I'm concerned. Right, and it's actually a good transition time. Um, Yeah. you know, it's as Matt knows, the select board won't have as much to do with that right now. You know, and this is more important Right. [clears throat] and making sure it proceeds at, you know, Right.

or funds with the these funds as it's intended to. Yeah, and I think as as as Mr. you know, Gilpin pointed out, I mean, he's local, he's here, he's actually going to be doing the construction. I think that's a much better situation than we've had with the prior contacts on this project. Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking forward for to hear hearing positive news moving forward. Um, and then yeah, and the other one that we that we sort of are with is on the agenda for today is this, you know, the High Point Drive, the settlement stuff. So. Okay, I'm not as familiar with that one, but I'm sure you guys can catch us up. Um, and are there any other projects on the horizon that you guys are looking at? Uh, there's the 25 Webster Street, um, that is uh, so [snorts] the the site was a school. Uh, it was torn down decades ago, was, you know, an empty field for a long time and uh, in 2020 it was uh, conveyed to the trust. Uh, so the trust owns it. Um, and then I think two or three years ago we did uh, an RFP and uh, we went with I'm blanking on the name. It's a a non-profit developer. Um, Worcester Community Housing Resources.

right, yeah. Yeah, so uh, they have uh, I think it's an option uh, to purchase um, and they're working on pulling together some uh, grants and other funding. Um, and when when we spoke earlier today uh, I forgot who it was that mentioned it uh, that um, you know, private developers uh, tend to move faster. Well, the the non-profit one uh, moves a little slower uh, with all that funding uh, complexity, uh, but it's um, uh, seems to be slowly but steadily progressing. Um, and yeah, I think that's I think that's it for our kind of ongoing stuff that we have at the moment. I I I think that's true. I mean, the Worcester folks, it's a, you know, the Worcester it's non-profit. There was all sorts of hold up on that one, Jenny, because they said they couldn't, you know, move ahead without HUD approval and that required some environmental examination and all this sort of thing, but they've been remarkably silent for hm, a period, you know, considerable period of time. Is So, Is there any grant funding associated with that? CPA or HT or No. No, we hadn't They hadn't really reached that point Okay. yet. Um and I'd be curious as to whether or not they're planning on proceeding at all at this point. Yeah. Uh Andy Howarth, I think, is his name. He he came in and uh presented uh you know, uh an update uh like two or three meetings ago, I think. Uh-huh. But yeah, there wasn't a lot uh to update at that point, but I mean, he did show up. Uh Colleen, go ahead. Well, what I remember with one of the

rounds of funding is that they kind of knew that first round was going to get a no. It was one of those kind of grants where you needed to go to that second round, which was going to add time to getting that grant. Yeah. That's right. That is true. Um [snorts]

But I mean, as I said, I don't know. I mean, we we had we had that discussion a while ago. That's now 2 years ago. About, you know, their requirements to go through HUD and all that sort of stuff, and I don't have any idea what's happened with that. Have they done any environmental due diligence or I don't think so. Or not that I've not that I've seen. I said that I said it was 2 years ago that we did the option agreement. I mean, with with them. Well, maybe uh now that No. You might want to call him up. Yeah, you could introduce yourself and say, "Hi, you know." Yeah. Please get me up to speed on this. Yeah. I know they did

get me their contact.

Yeah. Mhm. Yeah, they said um I think it was Yeah, it was 2024 when we did that, and they I think they said they're they were expecting it to be done in 2028 with their their timeline. So, yeah, I'm not sure if we're on track with that timeline, but it was a long timeline from the beginning. What did they expect to complete by then? The entire project or just Uh oh, no. I don't think so. I think that was the purchase. That was just the purchase. [laughter] That's right. Yeah. Four years to purchase the property? It was kind of seeming that way. Uh the last I heard from them, it wasn't too long ago. Um it wasn't Andy, but it was somebody else who worked in his office um had some questions for me. Uh it seemed like he it was questions that he was uh using to fill out a grant a grant application. Um so Mhm. I'm happy that I've heard something, you know, in the last month or so from them. Um but yeah, he didn't give me a lot of detail about, you know, what application he was submitting or anything. Um he was just looking for for some general information from us, but Mhm. Um I mean, when we've invited Andy Howarth into our meetings for updates, he's he hasn't been very hard to um to get to come to meetings, so if we want to invite him back in for the meeting in May or or anytime soon, I'm sure that he would uh he would join us again.

So, Jenny, I'm sending you what we had um in in 2024, which is Todd Rodman was representing them. So, I'm sending you the last sort of email that I have from him. Thank you. Okay. Well, yeah, I'm happy to reach out to and introduce myself and make sure, you know, we're connected, and maybe that triggers some an update or something from them. Obviously, if you want to have him come back to a meeting, that would be fine with me. I mean, so that's that's up to you. Yeah, Sarah. The sole logistical thing just thinking of Andy, he mentioned last time during the meeting that he's a 2-hour drive away. So, I just want to be mindful of that that that's he should just join via Zoom. That should just be our expectation for his uh participation. Unless he's in the area. Agreed.

[snorts] Well, I mean, I'd I'd first I mean, my su- I it's up to Jenny, but my suggestion would be reaching out to his attorney first and just sort of saying, "Hi, we've had a discussion. We're transitioning to new counsel, etc., etc., etc." and just sort of get from their counsel a general idea about what's going on, come back and report on that, and then you could talk about what your next step might be. Would be my suggestion. Before having Andy come in? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, then we could at least get the lay of the land before, you know, he comes in to talk to you. Yeah. [snorts]

That makes sense to me. Um Is there anything else? Uh I mean, so I think I think I probably have a lot of the Upton Street documents. I mean, I know I've seen the grant agreement. Um it's Mhm. I think you do. Yeah, there is there's not much.

It's like everything's online. You know. I mean, I did I did um uh maybe now, I think it's almost 2 years ago, have a meeting with the Inspector General's office. Okay. And and um for some period of time to talk about this project. Somebody had, you know, complained about how it was was being done, and it was interesting because the folks at the Commonwealth didn't know anything about the Community Preservation Act. Which act? Yeah, the whole thing. I mean, you know, they just they had no idea. And so, that was kind of well, so I spent a lot of time educating them on the on the on the act that's been around for, you know, at this point, probably 25 years. Um but anyway, um so, uh I have never heard anything since. Mhm. Well, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. It was.

[laughter] Perfectly nice people, but yeah. They are siloed. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, so I don't I I don't expect that to

Mhm. be too much work moving forward. [clears throat] Um And yeah, and if you can if we can connect offline, maybe, and you can fill me in on the High Point settlement if there's something I need to do with that. I can send you a copy. I sent I was sent one to Bruce the other copy that to Bruce the other day, so I can send that along to you. Um um I don't really know the whole background of of the the case at High Point. I mean, I think there was, you know, there was a lawsuit between the um the an enforcement [clears throat] action with the um ZBA against the developer um you know, hearings up with the you know, with um DH, you know, HS and um uh and then the settlement where as the where the trust got $100,000 and um three parcels of land. Um so, all of that transaction has been done, you know, with everything's on record and all that sort of thing has been done. So, the trust actually owns it. The money's been delivered. Um two of the lots are required to be affordable housing. Um and uh um and the last the one of them is not. There's But I think there has been always been a question about whether that one was actually buildable. Uh um for various reasons. Um but um but yes, so we we do have that. There's no there's no restriction itself in the deed, but that is the terms of the settlement that those two of those lots are dedicated to affordable rates. Okay. Kathleen, do you have any sense so the two parcels are obviously specified um in the settlement agreement, but, you know, once this gets going, and I think we've talked about how the the most likely path forward is is um uh an amendment to the the original 40B. Um

would it be reasonable to try to pursue, you know, if if we or or or potential respondent to the RFP um wants to shift around the affordable parcels. Um is there any reason that wouldn't necessarily be a a minor modification that you know, should be a fairly low bar to to try to clear to keep two affordable parcels, but maybe not necessarily the two that are specified in the settlement agreement? Well, you you only own those. So, I I don't know how you could you could travel, and I think he's sold everything else. Well, no. So, two of the three. So, Oh, two of the three?

Yeah. Um yeah, so the so the two lots, you know, 48 and 74, and the third undeveloped lot is lot 52. So, the the lots 48 and 74 were designated, I believe, in the comprehensive permit as the affordable lots? I'm not certain about that, but that's my assumption. Um and so um that would be yes, you'd be going back to the ZBA for a minor modification. To transfer if if that if in fact from the comprehensive permit it's been some time since I read it um whether those lots were absolutely you know tagged as the affordable lots.

[snorts] Um Trying to see if I have a copy of the permit. I don't I don't see one here in this file. [clears throat] Y- yeah, so you would have to go back to the ZBA if that's the case. Okay. Did that answer your question, Brian? Yeah, yeah, sorry. I'm good. [snorts]

Does anybody else want to or is there anything else I need to know or any questions anybody has for me? Uh one one thing I did want to uh make sure to note was with the 1727 grant agreement um Kathleen has been looking over the invoices that come in uh and just you know flagging any concerns for us um which has been very helpful. So that'll be great to uh continue. Yes. I would suspect that we are not going to have the same kinds of issues that we had with the prior requests. Um because there's actual construction happening now. And and um and it if it is in fact paying back you know general contractors invoice you know that GC has paid these outside invoices. I think that's a better situation than we had a lot of pre-development costs that were with related companies. Um and that was an issue. And you know expenses that were included that we didn't allow. Um and then of course you did maybe had heard the conversation is that um the current owner the developer has asked about whether he could use grant funds to pay the sewer connection fees and those kinds of municipal charges. And our answer to that has been no, we're not using town money to pay town fees. Yeah, I did hear that. Yeah. And so we've been pretty strict about that all all along. Every time he's asked, which has been about eight times.

[laughter]

Okay. Maybe he thinks the answer's going to change, but so far it hasn't. It's just not a good look. Yeah. No. On the top on the topic of um town fees, I know you know way back when there was discussion of um potentially seeing if if we might be able to um to work with the select board or whomever the the um the fee issuing bodies might be to um to try to obtain some relief which according to the grant agreement any relief that the developer gets from town fees would essentially get you know they would pay those fees to us as kind of you know repayment of the of the grant agreement. Um with the town's financial situation being what it is um just putting cards on the table are we basically assuming that that prospect is off the table at this point? I would think so. Yeah. Yeah. I and and I you know I'm I don't I'm very active in my own town. Um you know you know I'm on the community preservation committee in my town and I'm chair of the ZBA in my town. Um and so I I know from the conversations that we've had around the table that you know credits around places are not happening these days. Mr. Offen's going to say something.

[clears throat]

Uh yeah, I think Can you guys hear me? Yes. Okay. Um I think we should ask. Like we're not going to get anything if we don't ask. Um I would recommend maybe waiting until June. Um to see you know presumably we're going to have at least one uh I guess there'll be two new two new members on the board. So I'd wait until June to see um uh but I would ask for sure cuz again it can't hurt. And we do have some precedent for it for sure. Um so um we can cite that precedent and uh see how it goes. It's fair. I was thinking kind of the same thing see if uh the perspective of the board shifts a bit. Yeah, it may may not, but either way I think it's it should be asked um

[clears throat]

cuz it's you know money that will go back to the trust and can be redeployed uh for other projects. So why not? Well, and I think the you know the board will be through I mean there's actual pro- he actually they don't own it anymore. The town doesn't own it anymore. They've sold it to somebody else. And there's some there's some real movement here which we haven't had for a while. So that's great. That's right. All right. Anything else uh on the council handoff uh topic? So Kathleen is this the last we'll see of you? Um well, I I think it's depends upon what comes up on the agenda. Um but um um

[snorts] maybe not. I mean I'll sign in for the one one more meeting or something like that. Depends upon what you know what the conversation is about High Point whether you need some more assistance on that. So Sounds good. Um but yeah. I had to ask the question cuz you said you're bad at saying no, so [laughter] I am. I That felt like a test. Yeah, I Kathleen I'll reach out to you we can set up a meeting offline to to just about anything else that needs to. Yeah, you know. Well, in case we don't see you uh you've been a fantastic absolutely fantastic partner throughout

Yeah, um I couldn't imagine anybody better uh you know I uh sat in a executive session with you doing an RFP and [clears throat] first time any of us had really done that whole process and uh your guidance was invaluable and just yeah navigating this been a lot of complexity and a lot of ups and downs with the 1727 Upton uh project. So um yeah. Just a you're a hot shot for sure. And [laughter] I think all of us appreciate it. Well, thanks very much. It's been a pleasure working with you guys. It really has. It really has. Um you know hardly ever in person, but but yeah. [laughter] That's the way things go these days.

The way of the world. Yes. We'll get you to But thanks very much. We'll get you to the groundbreaking for 1727. Oh yeah, absolutely. Man, I'll show up with bells on for that one. Man. [laughter] You you you've earned it. Yeah, you've been very helpful. Thank you for uh for all of the uh all the help over the years. Yeah, thank you. It's been fun. Um All right. So I yeah, so I'll he- I can help with Jenny and um [clears throat]

pass over everything I got. All right. All right. You good for it with me or do you want me to stay on for a while? Um so we are we're going to discuss the um the High Point a couple points about the the RFP. Um I don't know do I I think one thing that we're I guess we can we can transition over to that agenda item now. Um so one thing was uh whether we want to um like offer the land as part of the um you know support for uh you know the uh the affordable housing that we want to build there or if you want the um the uh the developers to like expect that they'll be purchasing the land from us. I think that was kind of a point that we hadn't really decided on. Um but uh Colleen I think you had some thoughts and I do want to uh unless I'm wrong with that. About whether or not we should be gifting it or selling it? Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't know if it's necessarily my my thoughts. I just know that the the board or the trust hadn't um Okay. absolute conclusion on that. And um I I was under the expectation that tonight we were going to be reviewing a draft of the RFP is why we were meeting so soon. Um I understand that that didn't happen, but that's that's okay. I guess that's just really our next step on this agenda item in my opinion is is the draft RFP so that we can get that going. Okay. Uh yeah, so we don't have a draft before us. So um yeah, I'm not really sure how much there is to talk about on this then. Um unless somebody has additional thoughts

about that particular point or um anything else we can I don't know. I just wanted to ask a question. Sorry, go ahead. Colleen. I Oh, sorry. This is actually Sarah. I was going to say the other point that we left from the meeting um last time and I know I don't know if this was possible on the 2-week turnaround, but also input uh from a developer about the kind of what would a developer need um to really be interested in pursuing a project like this. So, that was also another perspective before we could even make a decision as a group of kind of collecting that insight and opinion

Right. from from there. So, and I know that was a tight um time frame to get that. So, I wasn't necessarily expecting that tonight, but that was part of it to help with that decision. Yep. I remember that now. But I was just trying to understand. So, was your thought the So, the question that you haven't decided yet is whether you're putting out an RFP and expecting people to come back to bid at some sort of market rate or whatever for the you know, to purchase these parcels or you were looking for somebody who was going to um do affordable housing and you were going to gift the land to them. So, it's uh it's affordable housing and the question I believe was whether or not um we are stating in the RFP that we are gifting these parcels uh it for development or whether the this is you know, uh the developers should be putting bids that are purchasing the land from us to develop.

Mhm. [snorts]

So, it it I guess like the bigger question that this came under was um resources that are available um for the developers to offset the cost of uh building affordable housing. Mhm. Yeah, I think and and I might have kicked off some of the um the confusion. I think most of the trust seems like they were probably on the page [clears throat] of like expecting to to gift these parcels to a potential developer um and and potentially even consider some some additional support on top of that. I think where I had the question was knowing that um even for 25 Worcester Street, there was you know, and now we're dealing with a nonprofit, there was a $100,000, you know, purchase price assigned to the the lot um and the sample RFP that we got last time um I forget where the what the community was. Um but that was drawn up as um an expectation that um a potential respondent would be you know, expecting to pay at least $50,000 per parcel for I think two different parcels that they were that they had for for development. Um but yeah, I agree. I I I think it would be foolish for us to to ask a a developer to pay us for the parcels and then turn around and ask us for support to to build it. And I think where we know at least some um at least one if not multiple of the parcels are somewhat challenging topographically, um you know, I think it's reasonable to expect them to to be looking for some support. So, maybe we start by by gifting the parcels and then you know, kind of um leave it somewhat open-ended um and maybe a a criteria that we judge respondents on um is to how much additional support they might need. Um somebody looking for zero obviously is going to be looked more favorably upon than somebody looking for you know, another half million dollars. Um but I think that was kind of the timeline of of my thought process

anyway. [clears throat]

Yeah, I mean I know that it's it's difficult um because I mean I I represent the Natick Affordable Housing Trust for a while still and um we put out an RFP that nobody responded to, period. Um and then um in Weston, we just did a transfer to Habitat that took probably almost 2 years to put together um and so that was property for a dollar in Weston, which is pretty historic um and um and also support um from the trust to Habitat to finish the build. Um [snorts] so, uh I think unfortunately in this kind of environment, that's what we'd probably be looking at. I think the two most recent I've worked on for two different communities, the only respondent was Habitat. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Um

[clears throat] As I said, it's um you know, there's been deep you know, deep silence [laughter]

in uh some of those my towns on the uh on these RFPs that have gone out. Uh Dan, can I ask um what is your process for for do like drafting RFPs? Does does one of you guys take the lead on that or does someone in town hall help Amber anyone? I'm just curious. So, uh we're working with MHP uh on this. Um we also uh it would uh a lot of that will get done by the uh planning department staff. Um not sure if you're aware, but we're currently uh hiring a new planner. Um the previous one uh left, so we're kind of without a planner at the moment. Uh we're also without an administrative assistant for the planning department. Uh so, they're very understaffed right now. Um but yeah, that's uh once we uh get the town planner position filled, that will be uh providing assistance with that. Okay. I'm happy to help with it, too. I work I work on RFPs all the time. I'm the procurement person for

[laughter] So, um you know, I can review these things pretty quickly. So, Okay. Yeah, MHP also did our RFP for 25 Worcester Street and it was uh when we were going through the same transition. Our town planner had just [laughter] left and then our new one came on and they did our RFP. What is it about RFPs that make people leave town? Scares them away. Yeah. [laughter]

All right. So, I think that uh uh if um if we're still waiting to hear a little more about what like developer would want, then I think we're kind of done with the conversation. Um I do kind of feel like it's we're sort of leaning a bit toward probably gifting the land, um which to me feels like the um I mean, if we're selling it like it's we're expecting them to then build a house and then sell it for considerably less than market value. Doesn't

Mhm. seem like the best opportunity out there for developer. So, just kind of being being not a professional in this field, uh that's that's the kind of gut reaction I have to that. So, Well, I mean, it's funny. In some situations, we've had luck because it's been a developer that's doing a project in Milton, for example, where we have we had these old permits that required, you know, affordable units, but they didn't have to be they didn't have to be on your project. So, you could turn you know, that we have this private property, the old farmland, absolutely gorgeous, mega houses and all that sort of stuff and they had a requirement to provide affordable housing and they got away with it by doing it off-site. So, you know, the developer that has an obligation to provide two or three affordable units um but can get can get out of it by doing it someplace else would be looking at those parcels. Mhm.

[clears throat]

Um and then of course as it as Jenny pointed out, you know, most of the time it's Habitat or some other nonprofit that's you know, going to be doing you know, that's what it is in Weston, one I did in Stow was the same way, you know, one in Natick has all been Habitat. Got it. But I mean, I you know, I suppose if if one of them doesn't have to be if only two of them have to be affordable, um I guess it's a question of being taking a look at the permit and that sort of thing, but um if one of them could be sold as market, then that offsets the cost on the two affordables. Right. But I think we have to go I'd have to go back. We don't all you know, Jenny would have to go back to take a look at the permit to see what the project required. Do we have a sense of um whether we think MHP is going to be ready with uh a draft RFP or or as close to it as we can get um at our next meeting um the 14th? I don't know. Um I can check in on that. Uh Let me see how many weeks is that? That's uh 3 weeks, 22 days. Um I would hope so. Um Emma did say she had the information that she needed to get started. Um But I'm Yeah, I'm not quite sure how much time she's going to need. I can reach out to her and see if uh if our main meeting is going to be realistic. Yeah. That'll be helpful. Yeah. Okay. Uh [snorts]

Uh anything else on uh I point? I'm good. All right, and that brings us to our final agenda item, adjournment. Uh [laughter]

Everybody's favorite, so Uh Move we adjourn. All right. Second. All right, motion and second. Uh vote by roll call. Uh Brian. Aye. Uh Matt. Aye. Colleen. Aye. Sarah. Aye. Dan, aye. All right, we are adjourned. Uh Thanks, Jenny. Thanks, Kathleen. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Good night, everybody. night, everybody. Good night.