City Council - Special Meeting

Thank you. Thank you.

water rates and that retreat actually ended up being covered by one of the papers and coincidentally resulted in a headline. Then you'll remember that we came together in March for a Friday afternoon special call to be able to discuss again some more individualized pieces. And then the manager, in working with council members and getting feedback all along, of course there was a finance committee as well. They gave a significant time to be able to offer input on some policy level conversations. Manager was then able to present a manager's recommended budget in April, and at that point, council received the books, the public received the books, and it was the first time that everyone was able to go into it line by line by line with sitting on their own table and being able to do that. There was a significant conversation then, which was all good and has certainly been heard. Then after that, council remembered that we had our public hearing on our budget. At that point, when there was one member of the public that came forward to speak, I'm confident that everyone, like me, received phone calls and things from different members of the public with different questions. But there was a member of the public that came forward to speak. Those comments were heard. And then there were a couple hours of discussion on the budget after the public hearing. And at that point, we then decided that we did want to have an additional special call to be able to address any remaining points of conversation and debate. And then that brings us to this evening. So I appreciate everyone's time going through this process. It's been a robust process. It's a deserving process. evaluating the manager and setting the budget are the most important things that council does in my humble opinion. So I appreciate everyone being able to make time to do so. So with that, we will move to a roll call. Miss gets if you would please conduct a roll call.

Mayor Gaylor. Present. Mayor Pro Tem Weeks. Present. Councilwoman Jones. Present. Councilman Boyette. Present. Councilwoman Matthews. Councilman White.

Present. All right and again just restating we will welcome Councilwoman Taylor to the to the meeting as soon as she is able to join us. Council we have a agenda for the special called meeting and prepared in front of us a lot of support out one through 4.5. Mister Livingston are there any recommended changes to that list of the some. No service mayor also or any recommended or requested changes to the agenda as presented. Hearing none, I would entertain a motion to adopt the agenda as presented.

So moved.

Motion's been made and properly seconded to adopt the agenda for the special called meeting as presented. Is there any debate on that? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. Ms. Guest, would you like to vote electronically or by show of hands?

Show of hands. I only have four so far.

All in favor, please vote by show of hands. All opposed, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes. All right, so with that, we'll move to items to be discussed. Mr. Livingston, I will turn over item 4.1 to you.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This was an inquiry was asked of the city staff to look into the cell phone policy and data discussion. It took us a little while to get all this information together. And we have put it together. So I think tonight is more of a Q&A. And what should the next steps be? Because we've got our existing policy. We can obviously share everything we have in terms of who has a cell phone versus a stipend and whatnot. So I'm going to hand it over to the finance director and let her kind of brief us on that and just entertain any questions, concerns, or next steps you think that we need to take.

And speaking of cell phones, myself included in this, please remember to silence your cell phones during the meeting. And I have now done that very thing. So thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for the time this afternoon. So I prepared a summary. And I will say to the best of my ability, the data duties or the capturing of the two different cell phone items are handled between myself and Finance and IT. So there are some caveats to the information. I did send the information to the manager later Friday evening, and I believe that the council received it sometime over the weekend. I didn't bring paper copies, but I'm more than happy to provide those to you if you would like. We were requested to provide a listing of the cell phone payroll stipends. And we did that as of May 26, 2026. And I also provided the stipend cost for fiscal 25 and fiscal 26. Fiscal 25 was a total of about $85,000. And fiscal 26 through May 26 is about $81,000 so far. So the total will be roughly about the same. I was also asked to provide the cell phone stipend operating procedure to the council, which I did and is provided in the packet. And so essentially what happens is if a department head sees a need for one of their employees to have a cell phone stipend, They fill out the form. The employee has to sign the form. They have to understand what information's available from that personal phone, what it's to be used for, and so forth. And so that comes to finance. We pre-audit it. And then I send it to the payroll staff. And then they include it in the cell phone as a stipend. And I think it's $60 a month. And then we break that down by 26 pay periods. I was also asked to provide a cellular device listing for our cellular company. So the city also provides city-issued cellular devices. We used to use Verizon a whole lot. We've kind of tapered that down, and now the city is using FirstNet AT&T. And as I understand from IT, it was a cost savings issue that we were saving quite a bit of money with that. So I provided you in my cover memo that right now what we have are 93 Verizon devices and we have 166 FirstNet devices. However, I put an asterisk by that. When... I was pulling the data out of FirstNet. The only thing finance uses it for is to pull a copy of the bill. Verizon Finance, we process the bill electronically. We pay it electronically so we have more access to and understand that data. The FirstNet's been kind of new. So I was not that familiar. Nobody on my staff. I think I'm the only one on my staff that actually has FirstNet access. Trying to pull usage data in an inventory listing was very difficult. The software is just very difficult to use. And it's probably just my inexperience, which is fine. But really late Friday night, Scott sent me a message and said, Catherine, I don't think you captured all of the devices. And as I tried to work through this on Wednesday and Thursday trying to pull all this data, it took almost 24 hours just to run one report. So it wasn't like I could just go back and just real quick see. So what I did was I pulled all that data down for the council to get the data usage. and I had to parse it into a summary that could be digestible for you. Because when I tried to print and look at data usage for a year, that was all I could get for the FirstNet. It was 1,600 or 1,800 pages, and it was microscopic. So you all didn't want all that. I mean, you really wanted to know, do we have devices that we are paying for that are not being used? So I tried to distill that down for you. So I say all that is the inventory for the city issued cellular devices is managed by the IT department. They grant the issuance once the request comes from the department head and they maintain the inventory. So I did the best that I could to provide you that information. There were some Verizon devices, if you look at the summary reports that I gave you, there were some Verizon devices that had no usage that we did pay something for. But they could be spares because I know that the IT department does try to keep spares if someone comes in and says, you know, hey, I need a hotspot or I need a cell phone. They've got it there in inventory. So there could be reasons for that. And when I looked at the first net device usage of the data that I pulled, this 1,800-page report, all the devices had usage on them, okay, in some form or other, because you have to think about there's not just minutes. There's, gosh, I don't know the terminology, but it's like when you download gigabytes of data, like data streaming, you know, like maybe connecting into work. So everything had some sort of usage when I looked at it. I'm not an expert at it. but that did appear that that was the case so on my memo i'm showing that the city has 259 city issued devices so that could be a cell phone a hot spot an ipad okay and that number could go up if if the If the inventory report that I had didn't pull everything, I have no idea why there would be two accounts. I don't manage that, so I'm not really sure. So I tried to give you as much of that inventory and data usage data from those two accounts on the city-issued cellular devices. I also did provide you a cost breakdown for Verizon and FirstNet. I'm talking about city-issued devices. The city paid to Verizon $101,000 in 25. And then through May of 26, we paid $50,000. So you can see we've had a drastic reduction. they've moved that usage over to the first net first net for fiscal 25 was about 66,000 and then up through fiscal 26 through the end of May it was about 82 so we did ramp up the usage of that but overall total less um so i'm not sure what other kinds of questions i'm more than happy to try to answer anything if i don't i will write the question down we'll take it back to staff and um get your answers so so um i'll lead off and then i'll obviously yield to council some of these that are still on verizon things like the tsunami cameras i'm guessing that's part of

actually providing the self-service for the individual camera that lives wherever it lives, right? I would assume that. Because they're not hardwired.

They're hardwired. They're stationary cameras.

Yeah, but then the actual, they have a hotspot component to allow secure data flow. Yes.

Because we're still paying the tsunami bills, I'm assuming they're still there. Right, right, right.

And they're listed in the Autonomous Report under the Verizon devices. Again, I realize that some things are gradually being shifted over to FirstNet. Yes.

Okay.

Council, what questions do we have?

So roughly and all, keep in mind we just got this information last night, okay? Oh, okay. Or this weekend. Okay. Okay. For clarity. Okay. We have roughly about 400 either stipends or devices, cell phone devices out there. Now I was looking at quite a bit of them and they did not have usage. And you're saying that could be that the employee's just using that cell phone just to maybe pull something up at work, some data. They wouldn't use their computer for that. They're gonna use their cell phone to log in for some type of work purpose.

um well so i just i'd like to use myself as an example just to try to try to make sense out of it because there could be a lot of different reasons so i do get a cell phone stipend as a department head and i have been issued a my file okay i i this i use when i have to work from home you know nights weekends holidays whatever it is and i choose not to come into work i'm working from home I use my home internet to travel back and forth to remote in on my city computer. I don't necessarily use my hotspot because it's slower than my home internet. So there may be times that you may see that I'm not using that MiFi, so therefore no usage. But I guess the reasoning for why is there usage is because if there is an emergency, I need to be able to respond as the finance director to do my job. And so that's the point of that, and it is like the backup. So you're going to have probably other folks that are like that that may be assigned an iPad. Could they use the iPad as a hotspot? I mean, yes, they could. Could they use their phone as a hotspot? Yes, they could. Could I use my personal cell phone as a hotspot to remote in to work? Possibly. Probably not because my phone's so old. But, you know, I can see where there could be reason why you might have a device that does not have usage all of the time, but it's there for an emergency capacity. So I don't know if that helps any or not. Well, it is sort of... Eat on it. Just on you.

It is sort of odd, and it may be the way that the report was pulled, but when you look at the column, and of course this is public, it's going to be scrutinized for good reason, but the sum of additional services data usage from the overall, actually all, it's got to be a way that the report was pulled, because you've got iPad Airs that would have both a Wi-Fi component and a cellular component that have minutes but no data usage. It's got to be a way that the result.

Are you talking about the FirstNet or the Verizon report?

The Verizon report. It's got to be the way that it was pulled because, again, it shows zero data usage for every data device. Now that I'm scrolling down.

And that could be based on dollars. So this report, what I did was I compiled it From Verizon, and I asked it to pull, but I may not have pulled the right columns. Like I said, this is not my expertise to do this. We pull the dollars so that we can pay the bill, okay? So I was just trying to step in and try to help out and provide the information, but I'm not saying that this is going to be the be-all, end-all of the data because I can't provide any assurance is what I'm telling you because this is not my expertise.

I think that it warrants further conversation because when looking at this yesterday, I don't think it's accurate that all of our data devices are having zero data flow to them. And if that is accurate, then we just uncovered something that needs to be resolved. But I don't think that's accurate.

And I don't know what each one of those fields means. You know, we may have to have somebody look into it. I had invested quite a bit of time trying to just pull the reports. And I'll be honest with you, I've got lots of other stuff I have got to get done. I mean, priority things that I've got to keep the city running. for me to spend time on this. This may be something that you may want to ask IT to help with because they probably understand more about the fields that are available in the Verizon and the FirstNet AT&T where I just don't understand what that data is. Because I'm not joking to you, the amount of data, when I asked it to compile, just this gigantic list of things came up that you can pull in the export, but I don't know what those mean. So, and we may need our sales rep can help us define some of that, you know, to say, look, what field can we pull to get everything so we can see what the usage is? So I think it's a definition thing that, like I said, this is just not my expertise.

Well, I think she's right. I think, you know, I'm sure you're going to want to, and I want to see more, too, results from this. And I think we're going to need to dive deeper into the data. We're just trying to respond to the initial question so we can bring it back some more, particularly what you want to see and discuss it more when we have better data to discuss, or at least more complete data. I'll put it that way. Yes, ma'am.

My recommendation to the council, after reviewing the report in detail this weekend and looking at every single line item, this needs to be a work session. Especially looking at the phones, and there was a lot of phones that didn't have service going on or minutes going on. And I think we could save the taxpayers quite a bit of money by revisiting our policies, our procedures, our issuance, who has cell phones, and then comparing it to outside cities. I've already started calling outside cities to see what their policies and procedures are. And so I recommend that we just place this for a future work session.

Understood. And I think that, yeah, that's obviously an option. I think it's important that now that we have certainly put this out there, I think it's important that if we believe that there are inaccuracies in here, I believe that we owe the public whatever we believe is accurate. If it's not, then we owe the public a resolution. One of those two things has to happen, it has to happen. Because right now, what is released says that data usage for literally everything with Verizon was a zero. And if that is accurate, That has significant implications. My gut tells me that is not accurate, but either way, the public deserves accurate reflection or resolution.

Yeah, and I had some pause about that, too, but it was in the weekend. I had to get this out, and so at least saying, hey, you know, this data is suspect at best. What we do know is what we actually spent and how many cell phones we have and that kind of policy. We know that.

Well, in the FirstNet report, accurate, or I won't say accurate, it reflects that it was utilization. That one does show significant volume of data going through each device.

And I see it shifting over there more all the time, going in that direction.

But either way, I think that, you know, we certainly put this out there. And so my opinion is that we need to get an accurate reflection for the Verizon accounts out for public review. Because, again, we need to correct ourselves if we believe it's incorrect. And if it turns out to be correct, then we very quickly need to resolve that, I think is my opinion. Is there? Can you discuss with us in your in your memo, you know that there there is a formal SOP not something that is titled policy? What would you view as management best best practices and what needs to be done in order to get whatever appropriate policy standard procedure, whatever it is in place to where that you feel like this as well well regulated?

So one of the things, as a matter of fact, I had a meeting this morning with HR, with the director, and we talked about, she mentioned that we needed to update HR policy, personnel policy, and I agree. One of the areas that I don't believe is discussed in there is talking about allowances, okay? So the council approves the budget, and in the budget it might say we're paying holiday pay, cell phone stipend, those kinds of things. So the council's approved it. But in theory, we really don't have it in policy where council says we approve a car allowance, a cell phone stipend allowance. clothing allowance just any number we have a couple things like that that were not addressed and I believe general statute requires you know council is the one that fixes compensation right so I told her I said I felt like the allowances needed to be in personnel policy where at least if the council agrees to say we're going to allow car allowance and there's three positions that will allow it for no one else, I do think it needs to be in personnel policy. Same thing like with tools or clothing, even safety equipment, even though that is a non-taxable fringe benefit for the employee, I do think council needs to state that. I mean, it could be a paragraph, short paragraph where you talk about it. Then what my SOP is, is, you know, it didn't exist prior to my coming. I see this going on with the cell phone stipends. There was some sort of a policy that did precede this. Not policy. It's really more of a procedure than it's a policy. about how we do things. I do think it needs to be formalized. So the SOP for me is once the permission comes from council to do X, okay? So provide a cell phone stipend and here are the basic ground rules. then finance, because we're managing it, develops an SOP so I can tell my staff this is how you do it, right? So that we make sure that we stay in legal compliance with the federal and state as far as taxes and benefits and things of that nature. So I agree with you, Mr. Mayor. I do feel like it does need to come before council as a policy decision because you all may say, well, we also want to include let's say a moving allowance. You know, if a position is X, then we want to allow up to, you know, $1,000 moving allowance or something. I mean, it's up to the council to discuss that and make that decision. But I do think it is council should be the ones to set that compensation. So I think that warrants further discussion. I'm not sure when that would be coming to council. That would be, you know, manager, HR thing working with y'all. So I do agree with that.

Well, there's the fact that we have a senior operating procedure is good. I mean, where you have a thing that where you're you have in place a requirement for how things are documented. And that obviously is is good. But again, we can get counsel to put to do a vote on this if necessary. Mr. Mr. Lewis in this one. But I think that my request would be that you guys work together, prepare a policy so that you actually have In writing a director from council. Right now it's inferred because it's approved in the budget as a line item for expenses in accordance with NSOP, right? So I think that, I don't think we're operating outside of the bounds of norm here, but I think it would be certainly best practice. And we're trying to tidy up a lot of things. I think we've made good progress in these last couple of years. I think this would be another one that we need to get in front of council.

My recommendation would be to leave it in the HR, the personnel policy because, you know, having a lot of little ancillary policies floating out there, it does make it hard for staff to manage. So if it's just another paragraph in personnel policy, that would be my preference because I think it makes it easier because then if you are an employee and you want to know what benefits are available to me, I've got one policy I can read. That would just be my recommendation, so.

Council any comments, suggestions, disagreements on on that. Do I have general concurrence to direct staff to prepare a policy and get it in front of us. I won't say a specific date, but it's certainly we have a few things that need to come before Council late summer and early fall. So I certainly think that needs to be done.

I do have a question. I'm not pertaining to the policy. I do think that we need a policy, but going back to what We approach him said I do think that we need to dig down a little bit deeper on the cell phone. As to I'm just using my state cell phone as an as an example. I use my state cell phone only when I travel because I don't want to pull my laptop out to check my email. But so I'm just saying that if we're not getting the biggest bang for a buck, we need to reevaluate that and have some type of policy in place to back that up.

The best way to go is just get rid of all of them. Go to stipends. That's the most efficient way to go.

Well, and with that, obviously you've got to look at public safety being a little bit different.

They might be the exception, but other than that, everybody else will be on a stipend.

Well, I'll, in my humble opinion, put that on y'all to have a conversation about what makes the most sense. You're still going to have data-specific devices because you're going to have them in individual, you're going to have them in trucks and cars. You're going to have your iPads with with cell service that are powering different things. You're going to have hot spots for cameras. You're still going to have a thing, but if it makes sense for general connectivity to move out of the cell phone business, that's y'all's decision. Well, it will ultimately be our decision, but it's y'all's recommendation. So talk it over. You have a cabinet of leaders and think through what the best way to go is. Council anything further on this. Mister Lewis that is there a specific budget implication for item for the ultimately do you need a directive from Council of if we are going to include or the money in the budget as it currently sits or we've had the conversation. There's no there's no motion to remove it and I'll get approved we get

Yeah, I think that anything we're talking about going forward here would actually reduce the encumbrances in the budget. So I don't know that the policy is going to be more driven towards future budgets and savings within this future budget as adopted.

OK. Well, then hearing no motion to, well, I'm assuming, is there a motion to withdraw the motion, or withdraw the finances that are currently allocated in the budget? I assume not. But is there, not hearing one, we'll move past that. And so the city cell phone policy and data discussion, I think the action items are, very quickly, get an accurate reflection of data utilization on the Verizon side is that needs to be corrected very quickly. And if we find out that there actually is no data utilization, that that needs to be resolved. Yes, certainly. And then a policy being drafted and brought to council late summer, early fall. I think whenever we're able to get back into ordinances, a high priority council generally agree. All right.

Thank you.

Thank you. All right. We will move to item four dot to council. Obviously, we've set aside two hours for this meeting, but so I will try and kind of keep this keep us going around that 20 or 25 minute mark on each item. I might step in and just say where we are on time. Obviously, debate is at the will of counsel. So I'm not going to shut down any, anything or anybody on this stuff. So, but if you see me kind of lean forward and point out the time, don't be surprised and don't, please don't take it as rude or being pushy. Uh, Mr. Livingston, uh, item 4.2.

Thank you mayor. We have Kelly and our assistant city manager going to brief us on the use of coronavirus. This is something we've been discussing and time is of the essence on this one. You asked us about different types of ways we can use coronavirus monies. There are other alternatives. The issue is going to be the timing, but I'm going to hand it over to Kelly and this time.

Good afternoon. Good afternoon. So in just a few minutes here, I'd like to invite April Johnson-Choice, our Director of Development Services, which includes our Community Development Division, to review more information about the CDBG funding, specifically earmarked for coronavirus or pandemic prevention, preparedness, and response. She will also review a timeline of the proposed park lighting project. After April, our director of Parks and Recreation, Felicia Brown, will follow April to talk through specifics around the site's usability during pandemic response, any additional expense related to lighting and current user demographics. Before I introduce them, I wonder if there are any questions for me.

This Williams you did a a solid job of my understanding back around that when this conversation or is originally came up. It was a budgetary question of do we allocate general fund dollars in addition to the the CV dollars in addition to travel and tourism dollars to be able to do to do even more. know the right now what we're discussing and it's not in the by the way it's not recommended in budget to do the general fund allocation but what we're discussing right now is purely the the cv tag the coronavirus tagged funding that you have you've done a really good job of reframing what it is that i'm supposed to be thinking about right now which is pandemic response utilization now it can also serve other purposes and it would frankly but Ultimately, these dollars have to go towards preparation for a future pandemic, hopefully never used in that way, or a response to a future pandemic. Is there any elaboration that you'd like to give us out of this framing of what we need to be thinking about?

Just that ultimately we're going to be seeking the council's approval on spending the roughly $300,000 of CDBG-CV money we have towards this proposed lighting project at Bryan Multisports Complex. Over, or I guess at the end of last week, a memo went out describing other potential uses for CDBG-CV funding. And frankly, I've racked my brain trying to think of other ways viable uses and the key is viable there are a lot of ways you can use the money if time allowed us to but at this point you know I've had to really narrow the focus on what are we able to do that will benefit a wide swath of the community will meet the well not just a wide swath specifically LMI communities So low to moderate income communities, users specifically in the LMI population, what will be allowable under CV coronavirus usage? Again, we're looking at prevention, preparedness, and response. So it's that narrow. you know what we can do within the time frame and September 10th is the is the deadline we're working towards so that's really the biggest crunch is you know we have a lot of steps in April we'll go through that to get through before we're able to consider this project a six I guess consider this effort successful and make sure that we're not having to pay back um this nearly three hundred thousand dollars

With that, counsel, any other questions for Ms. Williams before we ask? One question.

When you just made the last statement, so you must be referencing the grant. You said so that we don't have to pay back the $300,000. So for clarity, we've already received that money and deposited that money. Yes, ma'am. So if we don't expand those expenses, we will have to pay the money back.

That's exactly right. Use it or lose it. So we have it to draw down upon. But if we if we don't spend it, we'll have to pay it back for things.

Do we have it to draw down or have we drawn it down?

We have not.

Yes, it is. So it is not paying it back. It's not in an account is we would not draw it down.

So if we make.

Thank you.

So if the council commits to buying the lights, we have to encumber it. It's on a reimbursement basis. City's going to outlay $500,000, of which they expect $300,000 to come back from CB. So we encumber it. We spend the money. Then we go and ask HUD for a drawdown to get the money back. And that's what she's saying, is once it's a done deal and you've committed it, you can't backpedal. You have to be fully committed to doing that. Does that make sense? OK.

I just have one question. Yes, sir, please. So I understand all the ins and outs and what we have to do and have to decide and the time. Of course we're going for it is if this ever happens again, what are some of the policies or things that we can put in place that we're not in this position again. We're under the gun to do something instead of being able to find tune some things that the city and I mean not not that we don't need to like that this isn't it's a great thing. Well we could probably use the money in the area we had enough time right to do.

So I think that's a great question and I think what we you know we can sit here and second guess ourselves all day and we should always kind of try to figure out ways to do things but the reality is that we should have had this in a spending plan and we should have been talking about it two years ago. And we just didn't. And we didn't talk about the specific pot of money. It kind of came down to it, and we're like, we really need to use it. And that's just an oversight. So what we can do is just make sure that it's in our spending plan, part of our annual action plan, and it's specifically tied to things like we have the same issue coming up, correct me if I'm wrong, April, that's going to be, to avoid this again, to start talking about the home ARP funds. If we don't specifically have that tied into something somewhere, then it'll come back to you guys and you'll be like, well, I'd like to use it for this and I'd like to use it for that, which makes sense. But we already have a plan for it, so we wouldn't be scrambling. So that's my best guess is to tell you that we'd have to really get it in our plans, make sure it's in the queue instead of scrambling at the last minute.

One other idea as well, the Commission on Community Relations and Development, they oftentimes review our annual action plans as our, we have a public hearing session that comes to you all, but there's also HUD requires a public meeting. We use them as our public meeting. And one thing we could do is ask them to help us to be held accountable for ensuring that we do spend the funds as a citizen group, but that's just my idea.

One more question for this reimbursable grant. When did we receive this grant and how long was that tenure for?

Oh, that was part of my presentation, but I can skip to the end. We received it in September of 2020. September 10th of 2020. That's why it needs to be spent by September 20th of 2026. And we received 400... One second. $427,000 3 and the 427. 3 427,303 dollars.

Specifically because there are a lot of different pots of money during the covid era that that rolled down. So this is one specific.

This is just a subset of funds.

This is just one specific piece of it.

The cvc bdg cv.

Yes ma'am, I saw your hand go up.

Yes, my hand went up because I was on the council in 2020 and we had allocated, I can't remember exactly what it was, but we had allocated places and pockets for this money. And that is what kind of really disturbed me because we talked about it. We said we were going to do it. And then we look up and we haven't doing it. I just want to put that on the record because the council did decide to do something with that money.

We spent some funds and there are some projects. We provided funds for partnership for children, for outdoor playground equipment. We provided funds to wages to promote healthy meals and they did Meals on Wheels for seniors as well. Four-day movement, temporary housing for those who were unhoused individuals that were also affected by COVID. And we gave funds to the Salvation Army for rental assistance for individuals negatively impacted by COVID as well.

I'll tell you what, let's get into your presentation. That way, I'm going to be guilty of this as well. That way I don't pick it apart and ask questions that you already were slated to answer. So if you don't mind, if council is all right with y'all, let's get into your presentation. And then as questions come up, we'll see if they don't get answered. Okay. And then obviously any that don't get answered, we're going to come back.

So as we mentioned before, the CBDG-CV funds are a subset of funds that came out of the CARES Act in 2020 and a subset of funds from CBDG. What makes it more unique is that it has a specific type of requirement. that the activity that's supported by the funds have to prevent, prepare, or respond to the coronavirus. Though it is a CV fund, it still has to meet the CBDG national objective. It has to support or benefit low to moderate income persons. That's the most popular type of objective. Meet some type of community development need, having a particular urgency, or also aid in the prevention or elimination of slump or blight. which is the hardest to tie back to what I mentioned before, the prevention, the preparation or responding to the coronavirus. What does that look like? What does COVID resiliency look like in an application? Social distancing, removal of respiratory irritants, things that clean the air exchange, anything that promotes or protects health in buildings as well. Those are just a few examples of what projects may look like. Again, eligible uses will look very similar to eligible uses in the CBDG grant. You could use it to buy some land. Again, it has to tie back to the prevention, preparation, or responding to the coronavirus, building acquisitions, converting an old school to a clinic or some sort, as long as you are tying it back to that main purpose. It was previously, in your memo, it was mentioned the projects that we did consider. The Peachtree Recreation Center, updating the HVAC system. Again, this would, the time wouldn't fit for us as if we would have to, again, procure, get contractors. You know, we're dealing with an older building. It could cause construction delays. And I think the timeline wouldn't fit. The other idea was to expand broadband in our public parks. Same situation. The procurement process will take longer and we do not have, we can't afford the time. So it looks like the most viable project would be the Bryan's Multisports Complex Lighting Project. What helps this particular project is that the system in and of itself, the technology is proprietary, so we'll be dealing with a single source contractor in this situation, and we may not need an EA, which could take long as well. For these projects we have to define a service area and again we are using the low to moderate income map from the HUD source to help us define a community area has to be residential and we have to show improve and document that it meets that LMI and so for this particular subdivision The low to moderate LMI percentage is 61.6%, and it has to be at least 51%. Again, we define our service area by these particular characteristics, the nature of the activity, the location. The site is accessible to all public residents. And it is a unique facility. It's our primary source of outdoor recreation within the facility. There isn't anything else like it. And then we will describe its boundaries. So again, looking at the timeline, we spoke with our HUD rep in April and described the project and confirmed its eligibility. If we are encouraged to give them permission to move forward, we will update the annual action plan to make a substantial amendment. Currently, it just says something like public, it's very broad, it says public improvements. So we'll go in and amend that to make it specific, more specific. We have to begin the public review period, which is the 30-day process. During that time, we can go ahead and do our public hearing and public meeting while we collect comments in that 30-day process. The environmental assessment, again, there was one already completed for the Briar Multisports Complex, but we just have to just simply verify that we can use that particular EA. If not, we will still be able to get a quick assessment based on this particular project. The vendor, the procurement process can be completed in a short period of time. And the installation can be done within 30 days, which also helps us. And then it brings us to August, September. We can give ourselves a week or two to draw down on the funds by September 10th. And I reviewed the available funds. We received $427,000. What we have available to commit is $292, $378.88. And I had already reviewed the projects that we funded. And that concludes my part of the presentation.

is for for clarification and I want to jump in front of anybody else, but you know that the point was raised that council by previous action. I don't know if the right word is directed or approved but whichever the right word is please insert it. The these dollars to be used for projects such as this is do we know why that the remaining funds didn't ultimately get allocated or where they allocated the projects fell through or do we know.

I think if I'm not mistaken, Councilwoman Jones, I think you may be referring to the you all approve the annual action plan for that year that mentions and talks about activities.

Yeah, it did talk about the different pockets of how we were going to use it. And it was from my understanding, I wish I would have brought my notes if I would have now. But yes, there were certain pockets that we were going to use that for. It was my understanding that when we use it, then that would be it. So I didn't know we had only gotten half of the coronavirus money at the time. And then we were supposed to get the other half. You remember that?

I have to admit that maybe before my time. Do you remember that? Yes, ma'am. But I think it was for the, when we had like the third, we was going to spend 30% here, 70% here. I think that was for.

In the home area.

I think it was some different money because I don't ever remember like this coronavirus money. Like I'm disappointed in myself that I don't even remember that. I think what you're talking about is this. It was like 30%. We could spend here. We agreed to spend here. Another percent we agreed to spend here.

I brought a packet to each city council person and I gave it to you and we talked about and I even used the phrase is where would you would you use the money on a house that was on fire or a house that wasn't on fire I used that scenario and then we agreed that we would use the money where it was most needed

There were so many different, and I was not on council during that window, but in the professional world that I was in, I was acutely involved in all the different buckets of money that were coming down. It's entirely possible that everything that we're saying right now was done and that this particular bucket got missed. I mean, it predates you, it predates you, it predates you. I don't like the fact that it got overlooked at all because organizations like this three years ago could have benefited. You know what I mean? So I don't like it. I'm certainly not condoning it in any way. I think it's worthy of taking some time, some introspection, and figuring out, you know, I don't know that it changes our conversation today, but I think it is important that we go back and we look and we see, did council approve or direct these dollars already towards a specific thing? I think the answer is probably going to be it was approved, not directed, but I think that's a worthy exercise.

The annual action plan would have been done in 2021. Because I think everything was shut down in 2020. And the annual action plan is a 2021 action plan. But it discusses how to spend the CB funds.

The previous expenses that you discussed that the previous council member has already spent the other dollars that they've already been allocated toward have all of those been approved in those previous fiscal years is there any risk of us having to pay back because any of that did not be so complicated.

Yeah, these are completely. Yeah, I look at them. Yes, they're completed projects. So they've already been submitted to HUD and completed and done with.

The only really big chunk of money other than our normal allocations which have been accumulated, which we're starting to spend down with like McNair Heights and some other bigger projects, is the home ARP money, which is complicated because you're dealing with having to try to find something with a non-congregate shelter and getting a qualified... people that actually know how to run it. So, and that's how we've, we've already allocated that funding for those kinds of things, having a wraparound services and a non-congregate shelter. I just, you know, I don't know what happens if we were there to spend it in another year and a half and there's not anything around there to actually do it. So, We could be coming into this situation not because of our own doing, but because we're going to have to keep our eye on that ball, too, to see, well, it might not be able to do it this way because we don't have a person that we can partner with, we can reliably partner with. So we'll be bringing that back up to you soon, too, because I don't want to wait until six months prior, too. We'll wait at least 16 or 18 months before we do that again. So that will be coming up to you in the next six months or so.

is that what I have one more question for you actually came up I was going to speak with you. About this today that it didn't work out where we can I could speak with you take me back to Peachtree and why this money's would not qualify. I know we've had some have become I was going to pull the actual inspections that are CD had actually did on that building. wanted to pull all the inspections from each department I know that there's been some health concerns I know that we're using some window units tell me why this funding because we would have time to actually procure someone to help us out but tell me why some of this funding could not address those health concerns that our staff members have from working in that building

think it could but the timing may not work um just remember and you know when you're dealing with more historical older buildings you always come against something that you did not expect and we may be risking not being able to use those funds um i mean I don't know. Were there any other things that you researched?

You don't think you could procure somebody within four months to get that up and get those units? So they would have to complete the project and we have to spend the money down.

And the other timing issue would be we wouldn't want to necessarily put that amount of significant investment in a building that we don't have long term control over. So we don't have a long term lease of Peachtree. And it's not our long term solution as a community center. So the goal is to eventually rebuild a Herman Park Center or another WA Foster type center. And the way we're using Peachtree now is good and staff's doing a great job, but it's not a long term solution as a community center. So to make that kind of investment may just not be the best and highest use.

I have a question is that was that.

Thank you is killing for everything. I have a spring is only a little earlier today, but can you speak to. If if I have my way we're talking about age back systems, I will look at the T C Coley center because for years we've been talking about the system and it it doesn't really work well from what I understand so with that not be a a facility that we would look to do because we do on that facility, it's ours. So what about T.C. Coley?

Yeah, it's possible. In the same way, we'd still have some of the same timing concerns about procurement and things like that, you know, bidding the project, getting the scope of work, and then putting it out for, you know, or getting responses from qualified contractors. But ultimately, right now, we have a private lease contract. private business leasing our public facility and that's a constraint of spending CDBG dollars there really has to be some not some but a public benefit for the for us to be able to spend money in that facility and although Ashford's boxing I believe I've got that right is you know in in in some ways open to the public. There is a lot of private usage that would limit the ability to report correctly on the CDBG initiatives so that we would be able to meet all of the guidelines of the CDBG program. So that was definitely a project I considered as well. But without resolving the lease that we currently have, it's not really possible as well. So that's just another extra step we'd have to go to. before the September 10th deadline, and that didn't seem feasible at this time.

I want to pin that conversation. Not right now, but I want to pin it because, you know, we talk about the lease of that full. I'm thinking it's just a section of that building because we were renting it, the other parts out. So we're not doing that now. We're not. Yeah. Yeah.

Right now it's it's really only used by Ashford's Boxing.

The that's that is a that is a very big conversation that we've got to bring back. We have we got to figure out the right way to balance the good work that the boxing club is doing for its members, with also maintaining the actual public benefit of the building and the complex as a whole. And right now the only the only utilization of that facility right now because there's no city programming there is the leasee who's using the gym.

Thank you. Yeah, no problem.

Yes, sir. When this discussion is over with or at some point here, are we going to have to vote on because of the general fund allocation that's necessary for this piece or is it something that's going to have to come to a vote? It is not general fund. This is, at this point, staff because of... We don't have any more time to wait.

Yeah, well, because of staff and honestly... myself included in this, believing that we need council direction on this. We're only talking about the CDBG-CV dollars. We're not talking about general fund dollars in this at all.

Well, from taking this back to when we had the first discussion across the breezeway there and we're looped in on this, nevermind that we're here and we're out of time. We can look at how that happened another day. But having heard the initial presentation on this particular project, what it's being used for, the advantages of doing it, the LMI benefit piece, all of it. This is The only option that seems that we got and I'm in favor of it and whatever we've got to do to get this handled and give them permission to move forward and move on is what I'm in favor of. And then, you know, if there was a way that we. looked at other projects the next time hopefully there won't be a next time and we'll never be in the middle of a pandemic again and we won't have to worry about that but for this project i'm i'm ready to cast my whatever vote or consensus is necessary to let them do this and move on yes sir i do have one more question i'm almost to the point of uh

Councilman. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't need some type of work or some is that in the LMI community.

It's definitely in the LMI community. You know again, I don't know about its time back to the coronavirus that's

Yeah, it would be the tie back to the coronavirus again. And mostly the improvements to the facility would have to be some sort of air return issue. And so we'd be talking about an HVAC system, which I'm not sure that those needs at the event center are as critical as, say, the plumbing issues. You know, certainly Felicia would know a little bit more about what some of the the maintenance and improvement issues at the event center are, but specific to building improvements, it has to be respiratorily connected and we don't have those needs at the event center. I promise y'all I have looked at a few things, so I'm kind of aware. We've checked a lot of boxes and we've tried to research what other projects could be viable. And speaking of Felicia, if I can invite her up. I don't know if you all still need this information for your consideration, but she did prepare information especially related to the demographic usage and the increased cost of utilities with these additional fields. So if you'll just run through that, please.

Good afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon. And just kind of piggybacking on what both April and Kellyanne were talking about for the Bryan Multisports Complex, the first slide I have is just kind of taking us back to pandemic times. As we've all said, hopefully we won't have to go through it again, but just to remind everybody that during pandemic times, we as Parks and Recreation, we were able to provide recreational activities, but with restrictions. Here... This flyer here is actually one of our Facebook posts back from 2020, where we were like letting the public know what facilities were open, what you could do, what you couldn't do. Here, with our Bryan Multi-Sports Complex, we talk about having goals, like soccer goals on the fields, where we were limiting it to four goals on the fields, putting them in the corners, because again, we're talking about wanting people to get outside, do some recreation, be active, but space themselves out, so we wouldn't have any spread of coronavirus. Also during that time, we were looking at opening the pools back up but also during that time our playgrounds remain closed and again just thinking about at that time because we are municipality we were following the executive order of the governor at that time and these were things that were specifically sent out there for Parks and Recreation on what we could and couldn't do but again we could do outdoor activities so on the right This right here is showing you with our soccer camps. We were having soccer camps during that time. Kids were outside. I don't know if you could tell, but in the picture towards the middle, that's one of our staffers. She actually had a mask on, even though, like I said, we were outside. And so that was pandemic times. Coming out of pandemic times, I know a question came up regarding the light bill costs for our Bryan Multisports Complex. And so with the help of finance, I was able to get for the past five years of what we've been paying for the electric bill out there. And I say electric bill because we get one bill for the Bryan Multisports Complex. So that one bill, yes, it's for the field lights. It's also for the concession stand. It's also for the irrigation. It's also for the splash pad. It's also for the parking lot lights. But being able to get that information, I was able to provide what the monthly average was. With lighting fields two and four, getting that current estimation from the supplier, I do know what the kilowattage is for those lights. So because of that, I was able to figure out what the additional cost would be. So for lighting fields two and four, we're looking at adding an approximate $106 per month or $1,263 more to the yearly bill. Because one thing I do want to point out, let's keep in mind, we are talking about outdoor field lights. These lights, they are on 24 hours a day at most. And I'm thinking like in the depths of winter, they'll be on for four hours a day. And that's still not every single day of the week.

I'm blown away in a good way of what the difference in the hourly run costs for outdoor lights that are LED and modern compared to the old school halogens. Holy smokes. I mean, you're talking about $100 a month versus $10,000 a month. That is insane.

And the LEDs have a longer lifespan. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Don't let the public schools hear about that. They're gonna be jealous. Good Lord.

And so as Kellyanne was saying, I was able to pull some information. I believe all of you know that we have PLACER AI, several city departments. We have access to PLACER AI, which what PLACER AI does, it pulls data. Specifically, cell phone data. I was sharing with some people earlier. On our cell phones, we all have apps, and when you go to use that app, it says, do you give us permission to access whatever else from your phone? Well, that's place or AI. I mean, it just pulls information from people's phones. So it won't say specifically Felicia was at the sports complex, but it will say an African-American female in her mid-50s was at the sports complex. But because of that, I am able to provide you all with a snapshot of who uses our facility. I pulled two different dates in this fiscal year. The first date is September 15th to the 19th. That's Monday through Friday. Think back that time, that's fall sports season. That's the heart of flag football and soccer. So these dates are Monday through Friday. I was specifically pulling Monday through Friday because, yes, while we do have weekend tournaments, I'm pulling in who uses our facility locally. We have 4,200 visitors that week. Yes, sir.

Is that because on the weekends, that's when it's rented out to the outside organizations coming in?

We'll have some tournaments on the weekends, not every weekend. But if I were to pull a weekend report, Depending upon how large the tournament is, that number could be 10,000. But I didn't want to skew that. I specifically wanted to pull who uses it during the weekdays. Because that's our. That's us. Got it. OK. Thank you. And also with that, not only does that include our recreation league play, it also includes, of course, Seymour Johnson Air Force Base. You know, their people come over there for PT, for physical therapy. Not physical therapy. Physical training. Maybe physical therapy, too. And then we have people that use our facility just to come out there and walk. You'd be amazed that, you know, people in the community, they just come, you know, park their vehicle and, you know, walk around the facility. I will say when I pull these numbers, because with PLACER, you can put in different parameters, and I specifically put in for people that were there for at least 10 minutes so that I can get a truer number for you all. Because how people come there to walk, we have people that just come there to use the restroom. I mean, if any of you have been in our new hire orientations or taking a bus ride with me when we show the new hires around, that's one of the things I'm always boasting about. You know, the restrooms at the Brown Multi-Sports Complex are some of the cleanest restrooms you will ever see. And as a female, I love them because there are like over 20 stalls for the women's restroom alone. So we never have to wait. And word's getting out. Yeah. So people are using the facility for that, but that's like maybe five minutes. So they're not included in this count. But also, this pie chart, this pie graph shows, you know, who our demographics are. I mean, you see where it's, you know, black, white, Hispanic, two or more races. Like I said, this is what's pulled from Placer AI. And this, of course, is, you know, representative of our communities. I can also get household income from placing. And this is showing, again, for the same week, the household incomes. And I've broken it out by less than $25,000 up to over $150,000. And on a typical CD program week, 57% of the users are at or below 80% of the area median income. Good.

If it's just because that's pretty cool. I like technology. So if it's only being able to identify, you know, as a black female, not Brandy Matthews, then how do we come up with the salary? Like, how are we able to identify the house income?

Because with Placer, they pull in other, I guess I say free data, like the information from the census. They pull in all of that information and that's how they're able to compile it.

Anyone who... I can share a report. And I haven't used Placer personally, but data aggregators and data brokers are a very real thing. And They may, because the law requires them, swap your name out for a numerical ID, but it's out there. Exactly. Yeah, it is wild.

Yeah, no, I mean, and again, having the conversation earlier, I was like, you know, you may be having a conversation with someone about, I think it's time for me to get in the refrigerator. Go to Facebook on your phone. Lowe's is having a sale on refrigerators. Someone's listening. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the benefit and the uh-oh of technology. Yeah. But yes.

What was the other date range that you pulled?

The other date range was a couple weeks back, May 11th to the 15th.

That's the heart of? Spring soccer season. Spring soccer and what else? And baseball. It was baseball. Did y'all have T-ball?

We had T-ball. At Brownville Sports. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And again, 4,700 visitors. And this is coming out of Mother's Day weekend, by the way. But like I said, it's Monday through Friday. And again, representative of our community. And again, household income. We're safe to pull it. I said also, like I said, with the PLACER AI data, I didn't include this in this presentation, but also give us like zip codes, like where the people are with zip codes. We should all know with Goldsboro, 27530, yes. 27534, some may be in Goldsboro, some may not. But it shows like who's coming from Pikeville, Mount Olive. So like I said, it gives us the breakdown. Yes, ma'am, please.

Miss Felicia, can you go back to the fall season? The, right here. Oh, sorry. Okay.

The colors did change.

Yeah, oh, I'm sorry. I probably should have told y'all, yeah, the color. As I was doing it, I did not make the colors match.

I'm going to miss police I just yeah just want to look in.

I think that was the day is one thing again I think it's an excellent use of the funds.

That was it.

So then so counsel you there are there are a number of issues that have been brought up including how do we get to the point where that we're just now you know having these funds brought to us for expenditure. But we are where we are. I think that there's been considerable conversation and certainly substantial direction to remedy that and to not repeat it. But where we are we need council's direction on what to do with these CV dollars. The current proposal is to use them for additional lighting out of the fields and in preparation for what hopefully will never happen again in pandemic response and once they're out there also being able to use them for parks and recreation play. Is there any further conversation from Council or is there a motion to proceed?

I'd make a motion to proceed as presented.

A motion has been made to proceed as presented and a second has been placed as well. Is there any further debate?

Another debate, Mayor, but I had some more discussion before the question was made. But just one last thing to Ms. Kellyanne. Thank you, Ms. Felicia. And Ms. April. So when I was researching this, right, and I mentioned about, I just want you to answer it out loud if you don't mind. When I mentioned about the different uses, so finding out that Raleigh used theirs to help out with utilities and other costs for their residents. Like, What I'm thinking is if we have a deadline, get it, got it, right? If we was to use another entity like we've used United Way through their You Can program, would that count as us using the money, even though the money has been turned over to different hands for execution? Does that not...

Yeah, that's a great question. So essentially, you're saying if we were to make an entity like the United Way a subrecipient in total, could we write that off as money expended? We cannot. So like I said, it's a great question. But we have to fully show that what they are going to use it for benefited an LMI population tied back to coronavirus in the same amount of time. So giving it to United Way, then it would just really shift the timeline pressure onto them. And also, them being able to tie it back to the coronavirus would be just as tricky. So they're benefiting this population day in, day out. United Way does a great job. many other nonprofits the same way, but being able to say that that benefit to them, like utility bills, directly related to their coronavirus, to pandemic times, COVID times, would be really difficult. You know, we could get as creative as going back and seeing who has been delinquent or behind on their water bill since 2020. We could do that. Will we find enough customers, you know, to total out $300,000? And so then it's multiple beneficiaries. And so that's one of the beautiful things about this project is it's a one-time expense. at a facility that's going to benefit lmi population that can reasonably prepare us for another pandemic yeah thank you for the question i appreciate it also we're still in the debate and conversation piece of course the motion has been made but we're still in the debate piece if there are is anything else to come forward

Hearing none, I'll call the vote. We'll vote by show of hands. All in favor, please raise your hand. All opposed, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes. All right. Staff is directed to please proceed with the CDBG funds as presented. All right. Let's move to item 4.3, which is our downtown master plan presentation and discussion. And this will be a discussion about where things fit within the overall planning scheme of the city, of our government, as well as where it fits within the finances of the city. So, Mr. Livingston, if you have anything to preface.

Not really. I'm good, Mayor. Thank you.

All right, so similarly, I'd like to invite Anne Fonseca, the city's downtown development director, to discuss the manager's office priorities related to continued downtown revitalization effort. The success of the top rated amenity by our recent citizen survey includes the need for a new master plan and a vote, or excuse me, and a rate reinstatement for the MSD.

Erin? Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm going to give you a really brief overview of downtown master planning, kind of where we've been, where we're where we are going, what's important. And I will do my best to be brief because I know you've got a much longer evening ahead of you. OK, so in the last council meeting, there was quite a bit of discussion about the master plan and even some other resources available From North Carolina Main Street, so I want to speak to that briefly A downtown master plan essentially focuses on long-term design Transitional planning so we're looking at physical design and implementation things like land use things like infrastructure in contrast the planning resources offered by the North Carolina Main Street and Rural Planning Center are While very valuable, in fact we've used them multiple times, focus on visioning and economic development strategies. So they're not necessarily focused on the implementation of planning efforts and the master planning on the flip side is really focused on the practical layout of how those transformations will happen. In addition, the City's recent investment in strategic planning efforts like the Business Development Plan and Comprehensive Plan create an overall vision for growth and development citywide. These plans are truly designed to be complementary of one another, to help us create some synergy and maximize the City's investment and future impact. Essentially, no one wants any of these plans to sit on a shelf. So the goal is to pull as many implements together so that we can actually generate real investment and spur change that we like to see throughout the city. But my focus is, of course, on downtown Goldsboro. okay so what makes a master plan unique on the screen here you actually see a slide from our most recent master plan or our only master plan in downtown's history which was approved in 2006 and actually completed in 2008 and you'll see there's a lot of transformative design work really from oak or north of oak and all the way down to elm street So what makes the master plan unique is its focus. It's focused on, of course, physical transformation. And this includes things like streetscape design. That's what you visually see the most of downtown. Things like land use, zoning recommendations, which are not as obvious to the public, but of course necessary to guide future decision making. Property reuse, infill design, parking studies, infrastructure improvements, and transportation improvements as well. The timeline is also unique, so a master plan is looking at something that's long-term, 10 years or more in the future, and the scope is highly localized on a physical footprint in the downtown area. This could also be known as an area improvement plan, and it's essentially a roadmap to future development. It helps us guide and prioritize our decisions, both at the city and when it comes to private investment. What do we want to go where? What do we need most? And how do those decisions spur future investment and development? Let's see. A solid plan positions us to also take advantage of grant funding. I think that's a really important piece to point out. When opportunities arise, whether it's grant funding or private development, we want to be ready. We want to be ready to tell a developer why they should spend their money downtown, and this master plan creates a roadmap for them to make their investment as easy as possible. This point rings true in the successful implementation of our previous master plan. As you know, that master plan generated $15 million in grant funding from federal grant sources. And I know for a fact that we score well on our grant applications because of our intentionality. We intentionally set forth to move the needle and revitalize our downtown. Some essentials of master planning. Of course, we start with public engagement, committed stakeholders and leaders such as yourself, effective analysis of our challenges and opportunities, understanding of the current market and project feasibility. So that's another reason why an updated master plan is so important. We need to know our current market because a lot has changed in the last 19 years. connection to existing plans of course the current plans that we have but also all the other plans that we have developed downtown in the last 20 years that includes the master plan that includes a neighborhood revitalization plan we have an arts district plan so we get to pull all of these pieces together there's the choice neighborhoods plan as well so we can pull the best elements of all of these and connect them and that truly makes it a successful master plan Also, a phased realistic approach. Nothing makes a plan sit on a shelf more than an unrealistic approach to development. Specific public and private catalyst projects. So what are those specific projects that are going to make the most impact? Review and redevelopment of our design guidelines and our ordinances. So when we rolled out our last master plan, the next year we also rolled out our downtown design guidelines. We need to update those guidelines. We need to update a lot of ordinances, specifically downtown and the central business district. So that will be part of this process. And then implementation strategies, of course. Where do we go from here? On the right-hand side of this slide, you'll see the strength of the implementation. So in FY06-07, we adopted the master plan budget of $45,000 from the first investment. So not just the $45,000, but the first investment of the city. That was the 2012 streetscape project, the first phase of streetscape right in front of City Hall. That was a $2.3 million project. So that, coupled with other city investment in 12 years, leveraged successfully $73 million in other investment. That's private investment. That is other public investment like state grants, federal grants. So that's a significant leverage over five to one investment of your dollars. Okay, now let's move into some key priorities just to kind of reiterate or go back over what we were able to accomplish and what we wanted to set out to accomplish in the 2008 master plan. Of course, streetscape development. That is, like I said, the most visible element of the master plan. we really wanted to promote the pedestrian experience downtown prior to rolling out the streetscape improvement specifically along center street 90 of the roadway was impervious surfaces dedicated to vehicles after streetscape you see a much smaller percentage with about 60 impervious surfaces so the focus is on the pedestrian experience making it walkable making one making people want to go door to door, shop to shop, and really spend their time not only in the businesses downtown, but also in the linear park. So you'll see a creation of a linear park connecting Ash Street to Elm Street and making it truly walkable and pedestrian friendly. Along with that comes a lot of infrastructure improvements. So we had very antiquated infrastructure and we still have a lot of that downtown but we were able to kind of take the steps in the right direction to make those improvements and then also improving our entry corridors what does downtown look like as you're coming into downtown there's still a lot of work to do and I'd like to see more of that work go into the next phase of master planning but the goal is to just create a streetscape that goes beyond downtown and into the corridors outside of the central business district After streetscape development, we also focused on strategic development. So again, those are those catalyst projects. What are they? Where are they located? How can we truly spur private investment, which I think we did very well on utilizing the first master plan. And then we also wanted to create connectivity to our key anchors, places that we had already invested in. I know I'm cold too, sorry. Things like the Paramount, things like Union Station, these are true anchors that are city assets. So we wanted to use those assets to create connectivity and expand downtown. And then residential development. Of course, we know that the neighborhoods around downtown are an essential element of downtown revitalization improvement. So we want to encourage residential development and residential revitalization, as well as promoting mixed use and mixed density infill development. So that is an area that there's still a gap in from our last master plan, and there's opportunity to improve in the next. so now we'll just look at some implementation how we successfully implemented the master plan got it off the shelf so we'll start with the first phase of streetscape you can see that on the left you can see center street here right in front of city hall and then on the right after phase one the start of the improved sidewalks and the improved pedestrian experience and that linear park starts at the magnolia tree and then goes all the way down And then next we have Walnut Street corridor and the fountain that's part of streetscape phase two. So with streetscape phase two, we connected, created a corridor from Center Street to Carolina Street down to Union Station that includes the GWTA bus station. The goal is to make that a multimodal transportation area, connecting different modes of transportation together so we can move people throughout the city in an efficient way that's most effective for them. We also have the nice roundabouts that you see from Ash continuing down to Elm and the focal point of the fountain. And of course four more blocks of streetscape were involved in phase two. There you have the GWCA facility and then a lot of site work went into Union Station. We were not able to actually invest in the station itself because it didn't currently have a transportation need. or transportation use, I should say, and the funds came directly from a transportation fund. Phase three of the streetscape project was last. That connects the linear park all the way down to Elm Street. It's nice and walkable, and we also primed that area for future residential development. So in the plan, there is infill development that is actually slated to occur down South Center Street to Elm. So in preparation for that, we've put utility connections underground. Of course, there is Wi-Fi, there's lighting, sidewalks, all the things that you would want to have in a neighborhood that connects to downtown. And then lastly, the hub project, which is part of phase three. So I would say one of the best successes that we have in the master planning process last, of course, not only was that in the impact on private investment, but also just quality of life. So Kellyanne mentioned earlier that Goldsboro or downtown Goldsboro was identified as one of our greatest assets in the community survey. And I think this is why, because we truly invested in quality of life and impactful design downtown. in order to continue to revitalize our downtown. From that, we have seen, and this goes back to placer data, so last year, over two million visits downtown. And over 500,000 visits alone in that linear park area. So just that center median, so that's not people that are coming, hopefully they're coming to shop and dine, but they're spending at least 10 minutes in that center median section. I saw a family today taking kindergarten graduation pictures in front of the Mulberry Street roundabout. So they are utilizing it and they're utilizing it with purpose and that was designed with purpose. So over 500,000 visits and those are from people who don't live downtown. Those are non-downtown residents coming into downtown. So an updated master plan allows us to add fuel to the interest and continue moving the needle and revitalizing the heart of our city for community-wide economic benefit. Okay, so what's next? In our next master plan, of course, we want to expand on the progress that we've seen. We also want to continue connecting to the anchors that we have, things like Union Station. There's a lot of work that can be done on Walnut Street, Virginia Street, that entire corridor connecting to Center Street. And then closing the gaps. That includes things like residential development And I'd also like to see us focus a little bit more on the north of Ash Street industrial corridor. Even just a couple of blocks of streetscape improvement can make a huge difference in starting to add some connectivity. And then of course, spurring investment at the train station. So we hope to see that as a living, breathing, working asset in the near future. Next, I'll briefly go through our municipal service district. I just want to share with you some of the priorities in the coming year so you can see where the reinstatement of funds will be going. And here's a snapshot of the MSD. It's kind of a jagged puzzle piece. It makes up about 21 square blocks in our downtown, over 150 businesses in that footprint, over 200 parcels, and roughly 2 million square feet of property. And of that, our vacancy rate is just over 30% and that's largely comprised of those blighted properties that are in need of substantial investment to put them back into use. It's not that there is not a desire for people to be downtown, it's that the properties are not ready for them to move into. That's an issue that we're met with almost on a daily basis. We have folks that are calling and they're interested in properties that are just not ready to move into and they need quite a bit of investment. So that brings us into our initiatives. Our focus is really gonna be on vacancy and blight mitigation. So our goal is to encourage private investment and property reuse while supporting the enforcement of vacancy policy. Our goal is to limit, of course, the signs of vacancy in the Central Business District by encouraging property owners to make vital investments in their properties. We just want to eliminate those signs of vacancy. And here's some examples of signs of vacancy. Things like boarded up, broken windows, missing windows, overgrowth of greenery, just major facade needs. When you see a boarded up window, it does not make you feel like there's activity and movement there. And it really has an effect on the neighboring properties. um you know they say a rising toad floats all rising tide floats all boats um and it's the same is true when you have blighted property it just brings down the appeal of the property around it and our goal is to have zero percent vacancy downtown we want to see all the buildings put back into use so that we can have move-in ready properties ready for our small businesses that are coming into downtown which as you know that's largely what we have downtown So with part of the reinstatement funds, we would like to support code enforcement efforts when it comes to vacancy mitigation. This would look like working with a third party to support development services and code enforcement, so they would be coordinated by development services and code enforcement, and they would focus on things that are just hard to get to, documentation, follow-up, things that we know that we need to do, but we don't always have time when we're putting out fires. and then the second priority is in private investment and incentivizing private investment both in facades and then design design fees one of the biggest expenses that a lot of people don't realize for a property owner is just getting it ready to bring to the city for approval so that's design fees that's also fire suppression fees those come with high price tags and oftentimes they have to happen before the design plans even come to you all for a vote So we would like to put $30,000 towards that, essentially doubling the grant line item. Just a fact about the facade grant, the DGDC was able to utilize some state funding to create a facade, or bring back a facade grant program, really. So since December, we have already put $60,000 into facade improvements downtown. These are all private investments. And here's just some examples before and after. At the top you see before and after of an accessory property behind St. Paul. That's actually a law office that had their grand opening today. And then before and after of the facade at 123 North Center Street which has been vacant for quite some time and is now slated to be an event venue right on Center Street. So just those small differences can really make a big impact. Both of those were $10,000 grants so they match those with another $10,000. Okay, that's all I've got for you today. Do you have any questions for me?

So the, I believe that one of the main questions was the downtown master plan. I think phase one is, is it something that we want to do? And then phase two is how do we pay for it? At least that's me reading, kind of reading the temperature. So the, what does having a refreshed downtown master plan allow us to do? And let me preface that, which I should have done before I spoke. We've put in money to get our parks and recreation master plan up to date. We're putting in money to get our UDO updated. We've put in money to do a land use master plan. What's the point of the downtown master plan? How does it get used?

Well, obviously we've demonstrated how we used it previously, but our very successful master plan from 2008 is dated. A typical master plan, and that one included, had a 10-year scope. So really, I have been asking, I started with a refresh in 2018, and a few years ago took it out of the budget altogether because there were just other needs that the city had, and we were trying to make those ends meet. however we are really at a point of impasse and if you look at our private investment over the last 12 years you'll see it kind of start to taper off a little bit because public investment has also tapered off we know and can demonstrate that private investment follows public So we've got to update our roadmap. We've got to update the current market analysis and really understand where we want private dollars to follow. But that starts with us investing in ourselves. So I think that speaks for itself, what we've done with the first master plan. But there's a lot more work to be done.

All right, Council, I know there's going to be some comments and questions. Does anyone like to begin?

So the first phase is going to cost us about $73,000. Is that correct, this first phase that we have in the budget? I think it's close to $73,000.

It's a $70,000 plan is what I'm proposing. I'm not sure I would necessarily call it the first phase. I think it's just our new master plan. So our last master plan was produced in 2008 with a 10-year scope. So this would be our next master plan with a 10-year scope.

I think I was confused because the statement you made... how are we gonna pay for the second phase? When you were just saying, how are we gonna pay for it?

I made this move, I apologize.

Okay, so roughly about $70,000. Is there any opportunity for the DGDC, since we have a MOU with you guys, to maybe pay for even half of it? To offer some support, since we are using taxpayers' dollars and we have the MOU with you guys, would there be an opportunity for your board to consider paying at least half of it?

I think that's a fair question. The nonprofit did commit to the last master plan, I think, at about $5,000. But I do want to remind you that the DGDC just this year committed $36,000 for a match for the grant of Union Station, which is a city asset. It's outside of the MSD, but we are as committed to its revitalization as all of you. So had the nonprofit not just put up $36,000, then they might have been in a position to. But they only generate about $80,000 in cash from their sponsorship campaign every year. So that would really be a big chunk of the operating budget this year.

Yes, ma'am. Refresh my memory, please. The revenue that we get from the MSG fees, I know it goes into a certain pot. Can you speak to that?

Yes, ma'am. So the MSD is a city budget, just like the general fund, but it's a special budget because it's a special tax district. So that goes into the MSD budget. Historically, the last few years, it's been right around $100,000 in revenue that goes to things like I just showed, grant incentives. It also goes to beautification. It goes to programming, advertising. things like Christmas wreaths downtown, all those fun things, but it goes to specifically the MSD footprint to fund things that would not be funded out of the general fund.

There are, to that point, there's three layers of taxation on properties inside the municipal service district. There's the county property tax layer that the property owner pays, then there's the city property tax that the property owner pays, and then there's the MSD layer that the property owner pays as well. So they're paying into the city general fund and the county general fund as well, and then the MSD fund as well. Yes, sir.

Random question do we remember does anybody know what we paid for that a master plan.

45,000.

I was wondering if it had doubled or not or whatever but almost there. I know I spoke to this before, but I don't think that it would be I would not want to ask, in my opinion, for the nonprofit to have to pay for any of a master plan. I mean, the city has master plans, as we've already discussed, for Parks and Rec and all the other different master plans that we have, and we don't ask private people to. you know, rake up money to help pay for things like that. I think that the that what we get in value per dollar spent out of downtown as it relates to our entire community, not only just the city of Goldsboro, but just it's it's the calling card for for I've said that many times, you know, and I I'm in favor of the master plan I think we've absolutely got our money's worth out of the last one and it's overdue and past due I don't think the request is anything out of the course of normal business and I don't think that it's something that that should be shot away from using the same tax dollars to pay for that we do our tax dollars for other master plans for other pieces and parts of the city. It's just my 2 cents.

I need you to explain something to me again. You just made a comment. You said, I do not think that the nonprofit should be responsible. I want you to explain that to me again, and I'm going to share with you why I'm asking for them to have some buy-in to this. So we're asking our taxpayers to fund this department almost a half a million dollars. So you're looking at taxpayers' dollars for this master plan that is coming out of taxpayers' part is over $70,000. But we have an MOU with a nonprofit, and our taxpayers are funding this department. They have a budget. They have an operating budget. Their budget is lucrative enough that they even have an investment fund. So we're asking taxpayers to take money out of their pockets to fund this. But we have an MOU with a nonprofit that has extra monies to where they have an investment account. They have enough money that they can at least participate on the master plan so that we're not asking our taxpayers. I'd love to go to the taxpayers and say, we're doing a $70,000 master plan, but guess what? They're funding a portion, and I'm going to look at you and say, and we're taking another $30,000, and we're investing in your districts to see your parks come up to place, and the taxpayers' dollars are going to somewhere else instead of just one specific area. $5,000 $10,000 take that money and put it in a nother let the taxpayers see their dollars at work in another area. Yeah, it was a strapped we have it you know you we have it you know you if they were strapped if they did not have an operating budget if they didn't have a lot of cash I would not be asking this but I believe that they could contribute whether it be $5,000 10,000 we could then share our taxpayers had we believe in our constituents in another area and what we're going to do is now we're going to take this 10,000 this 5,000 and we're going to bring those parks up to par in another area

My response to that would be that I stand by what I said about I mean, there's no nonprofit connected to planning or this or that that we asked to pay for and contribute in that regard. And I would say that We should decide as the council are we going to support and are we going to vote on having this particular item which in this case is a master plan if the nonprofit side decides in a board meeting that they would like to contribute to that then that I'm tickled to death for that I mean then that's what I think they've done along the way has participated where they could And I look at downtown, as I've said before, I guess maybe through a little different lens than someone maybe would. I'm newly elected, but I've been part of downtown and all the way back before streetscape, yada, yada. I see the benefit in downtown, and I have said before, like when we'd done our plan for the WCDA, the amount of input that I hear from people outside of the community and economic development circle when someone before they even say anything to us after we do get to talking to them and their first thing they done was come downtown and the majority of them say I want to see downtown I want to see the courthouse I want to see the hospital you know those are the kind of things that they say So I look at downtown bigger than downtown. I look at it countywide for what it brings to the table. But nevertheless, if the DGDC's nonprofit side wanted to contribute, absolutely. That would tickle us to death. But I don't think that it should be, that that should weight in whether or not we approve The request for the master plan, particularly when it's already been passed its life cycle and I know that you and I've had some conversation. I want to see things move forward, particularly north of um Ash Street. That's a part of that. I don't want to slow that process up. Um So again as long winded answer, but the way it was asked so to speak that that's my long winded answer. Yes, we should welcome you guys to or the nonprofit to participate, but I don't think it should be placed on their shoulders. Yes, ma'am.

This is for you, Mayor Pro Tem, if you don't mind answering it. Is it a deal breaker for you if they don't invest? And then before you answer, Erin, is it a heavy lift for any investment? Because she mentioned... you know, five, 10, whatever that looks like. Like, is it a heavy lift for you? I'm kind of stuck in a minute. I really don't have a position, but I'm just saying if it's a deal breaker, then let's figure out how to not make it a deal breaker. But if we can go ahead and move it, like, let's figure out where we are. So I don't know if you want to answer that man. You don't have to.

So it is not a deal breaker for me. Not at all. It's not a deal breaker. I was just asking the question and where the difference is Councilman Boya is I get what you say about other nonprofits but we also the city helps to fund this nonprofit we provide the staff we provide other resources so there's where there's just a little difference I'm just trying to make it where we can sustain it more um we can develop non-profits for all different areas of the city but i was just asking if maybe they could contribute some to it but no this is not going to hold me up from voting for the budget and i and i think that you know to the mayor pro tem's point i think that seeing that there is genuine private interest in this i think is a good look i think is absolutely a good look and is

And shows, again, because a lot of the sponsorship that comes into DGDC, and I don't sit on the board, but I'm saying this by the signs that I see, they're not downtown businesses. It's outside of downtown that's seeing value in it. And so I do absolutely think that it's a good look and a best practice in that way. But for me personally, I see our citizen survey where the biggest things that people look at Goldsboro is look at their downtown where you can go and just simply sit and be and then our parks and recreation system. Like that's those are the things those are our biggest assets from my perspective in the citizen survey agrees with me. And so the to mean the downtown master plan should be driven by the city because we need to be the ones that are seeing where a future downtown master plan fits within the larger city scope and the larger planning of the city of Goldsboro and how it fits. But I certainly think that to the pro tem's point, it is a really good look when you see your private partners coming alongside of you, at least in some small way. I think there's certainly value in that. But I think the next question is...

Oh, yes, sir, please. Mr. Mayor, I totally agree with your words and what Mayor Pro Tem. Some small way of showing faith or some good faith offering or whatever to show that we are partners within this thing. Not that it's a deal breaker or whatever, but to make it more of a partnership, at least by appearance, would be a great gesture.

And there have been other very strong gestures as well. You've alluded to one. Me personally... I believe that it is a strong partner. I believe it's a strong partnership. There's absolutely no doubt. But this is a document that's going to be, yeah, yeah.

I appreciate the partnership and you guys do do a great job. I'm talking on behalf of some of my constituents that have said, Beverly, you take my tax dollars and you put it toward things for this nonprofit. but yet they have enough money that they can invest okay they can have investment so you're taking my tax dollars but yet they're not have are you following what I'm saying we're putting tax monies into this department but then the nonprofit has enough we're funding part of that but you have enough that you can invest where as we were using taxpayers money and so just some type of buying and I would just really I would like to see that partnership.

So the yes, sir, I agree and I guess what my angle was I agree with everything that's been said. It is a fabulous look if they would participate and choose to participate. This is me speaking for me. I would want to be careful as to not come across, and I'm not saying anybody else did, speaking for me, come across like I'm wanting to strong arm the non-profit into participation. The nonprofit has always done the right thing. They've always partnered. They've never let us down. And they're successful. And I'm sure that when it's all said and done with, there will be. some sort of meeting of the minds. But I just, me personally, I didn't want to speak beyond what I said, so as to not feel like we're putting someone, you know, strong arm in the window, what they're going to do or not do. When it's all said and done with, I'm sure it's all going to work out just fine. I just want us to get the ball rolling.

Yes, sir. I do reiterate that we all feel that is not a deal breaker. So I don't want you to walk away thinking that, you know what I'm saying, is do or die. You know what I'm saying? It's not that at all. That's all.

I appreciate that. Could I, do you mind? Please. Okay. I just wanted to start by saying thank you for your support. But also to remind you that downtown is everyone's downtown. So you all have your unique districts that you represent and downtown has two districts that kind of straddle it, but essentially it is everyone's downtown. So I say this all the time, downtown is working for you whether you come or not. It's generating tax revenue that benefits all of the city. So it's not just benefiting downtown. Those private dollars that I mentioned, the $55 million in private investment in a 10-year period, That goes back to investment citywide. That allows us to be able to present a balanced budget. So yes, it is generating revenue that benefits our businesses downtown. It brings businesses downtown. It generates tourism revenue, but it's not just benefiting downtown. That's an important point to make. And again, the nonprofit is very committed. They are a nonprofit. They're the nonprofit partner in downtown development. So the downtown development department is a department of the city. So the general fund is funding the city department, not the nonprofit. Any revenue that they generate through sponsorships goes directly to benefiting the priorities that you all set, that we set as staff, that revitalize downtown. Additionally, they generate about the equivalent of $200,000 in volunteer efforts. So that's saving us three full-time staff positions in time. They're the boots on the ground that really make the things happen that we set out to do because we don't have the time to do that. I've got three staff members, a 21 block downtown, and a lot of initiatives that we feel are very, very important. So the master plan helps guide our steps. It also positions us to go after those grants You can't apply for a grant if you don't have an updated plan. We were able to get $15 million in grant funding because we were ready. When those funds were available, we were ready. And that is with our nonprofit partners in tow. They did help support the previous master plan. And as I mentioned, they've just supported a significant city owned asset, not a downtown asset, not a nonprofit asset. So they are bought in and I would just ask that perhaps we adopt the budget and then I can go to the board at the next board meeting and ask what they are able to do. They do have an investment fund which they were able to use the proceeds of that to pay the $36,000 to match the grant that otherwise we may have missed if we did not have general fund dollars to set towards it. Any dollars that are saved in the planning process will go back into the fund balance. So if I'm able to bring that number down by getting some nonprofit funding, that'll just allow for more dollars to go into the fund balance.

Question on the grants. Who determines if the grant goes to the nonprofit side versus the city side? The grant determines that. So the grant determines that. Correct. So it's not a matter of you determine which grants you're going to apply for. But for clarity, I think what you're saying is the grant people come out and seek you. You're not going out and seeking the grants?

Not necessarily. One of the benefits of Main Street is they have a grant administrator, and she keeps a running list of existing grant opportunities. We get emails from different forums. So if we have the capacity, the time, the money to apply for a grant, then we will. And that's we, staff, that's nonprofit support. One of my board members has helped write two grants recently that we received through the Duke Energy Foundation. So that was all nonprofit driven. But really the grant dictates where the funding is going. If the grant is only allowed to be utilized by a nonprofit, then the nonprofit arm can apply. If the grant has to be utilized by the city, then the city will apply.

I saw that Duke Energy grant. So when it came across, it said it was for nonprofits only. So it was not where a city could actually apply for it.

That's right. That's one of the benefits of being a quasi-entity. Mm-hmm.

One thing just might be assumed, but I don't think it should be the downtown master plan will be administered by the downtown development department in the city would be approving that document. It's not a document that's going to be owned by the DGC or anything like that. It will be a city project city document. They'll have input into the process, but it's it'll be our plan for the city.

So, council, as is presented, the downtown master plan was allocated $70,000. It was allocated out of general fund dollars, and then the MSD dollars are allocated towards the other projects that were outlined in the presentation. Council, is there any discussion or motions to come from item 4.3? Yes, sir.

It's already included, so no action as it stays like it is.

No action would be for it to remain as is.

I'm in favor of no action.

All right, we're hearing none. How about we step over to item four dot four and then four dot five and see if between now and 530 you can have a seat I think thank you and see if between now and a few minutes before 530 if we can be be comfortable with the budget. Yes ma'am.

This is probably really going to bite. However, I was under the assumption that we would get a chance to talk about some of the things within the book. I didn't know we were going to have a set out agenda. So at some point, I don't think we can pull it out today, but I still think it's important for us to talk about some things. I would like to share some of the questions that I was able to get to Matt and Miss Catherine who took time to answer some of those questions because I think it's important to think it's questions that we've talked about from this platform before but we hadn't really gotten any answers and there are some answers and I think before we adopt a budget I think those things are worth talking about.

Do you mind? I mean that's a now is a good a good opportunity we have spot do you mind going through those?

Oh yeah um so one of the things I'm just gonna pull up my email thank you mayor for that time so a couple things that I just stuck out to me I was wondering if the $50,000 that we allotted for nonprofits that we gave to United Way, was that amount sufficient, or did United Way feel that maybe we should up that? Because we kind of took some money away from that nonprofit budget, and I just didn't know what that looked like. But they responded and let me know that Ms. Sherry is supposed to come before us in some point before the summer is over to kind of give us an update. So as of now, it's going to stay at $50,000. So I guess... You know, we don't really need to do much there. I was concerned about our community development department because it has always been ran by a few 10 toes down soldiers. And when we talk about the coronavirus money and how can we expect staff to oversee, I mean, hundreds of things, they are superheroes in that department. And now they're down to, I think, I know Ms. Crystal's in there and I think we lost someone. And I think they need some more help, but there was no money there that was allocated for them in that department. I don't know if anybody else had a question in the city manager's office about SCIM, those acronyms. And I've asked before, like when we're doing acronyms, can we have a cheat sheet so we know what those things are? But it's strategic and community initiatives. Because it just says C-O-M-M dot. So I don't know if that's... I'm assuming that's Community Initiatives Manager. Shock me. The other thing was... I spoke to code enforcement and ensuring that because, you know, there's always a training line item and it says kind of see details and there's no details to see. I don't know if you guys noticed that in your budgets, but it always says see details and then there was no details to follow. but just wanted to ensure that um though all of the employees within that department is having an opportunity to go to training because one thing i noticed before is that the same people this is not limited to code enforcement but i noticed in prior years the same individuals are going to trainings and just wanted to ensure that everybody has a chance to go to those trainings um Y'all, there was some positions that was moved around. I don't know if you noticed in the utility department. Thank you, Ms. Gwynn. You did a tremendous job of explaining it. I noticed over like a $300,000 jump in salaries, but there were no new positions that was added in that department. And if you guys, it's a lengthy explanation, but thank you for making it clear. So if you guys want to know that, I can share it with you. But there was some reclassifications of some things that went on in that department. I also asked about the MLK fund. And y'all, we really need to get that together because I was under the impression that we decided to fund that luncheon. But right now, as it stands, there's $2,500 that has been set aside for that luncheon. So I thought we agreed that it was going to be something different. But as it stands right now, there's $2,500 in that. Um. And then the last thing, you guys, I mentioned about, and this was totally kind of budget related but unbudget related, that I think code enforcement should have some type of safety equipment. Like I don't know if they need some mace, some stun guns or something because they are going into these dilapidated houses and people are squatting in there. And all they got is some shell-toe boots. That's what they got when they go in there. And I think that we should look into what that would look like. And that was something that Ms. Catherine added to one of my questions. And that's it. I would like an update on community policing because there's some community initiatives that we haven't yet been able to do. So I don't know if we're at that place where we can bring those items back up. A couple of things that I'm particularly passionate about, we just haven't been able to do. So I don't know what the budget needed to reflect having time to do that. I was also concerned about leasing uniforms to our employees, but she let me know leasing is way better than trying to buy them outright. So if we can cut costs for our folks, then yeah, I support that. And that's it for me, y'all. Thank you for letting me share those. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

With the MOC. Yes, ma'am. Good.

City Councilwoman Matthews. You are correct about it was not this council that said that we would fund MLK. It was the other council. If you are correct, we did agree.

So let's have that conversation real quick because I was thinking that any funds that they raised from last year also could roll over this year. Talk to me about that, Matt, if you know off the top of your head.

Well, I mean, they did say that, but I don't know what they're asking for if they have an official ask for the city. So we just kind of went with what we had last year.

Got you. And then ultimately, I know the expectation was that any funds that they raised, they would be able to be able to use. And so we need to get an actual budget ask. It doesn't affect this book necessarily, but we need to get a specific ask. And I was supposed to sit down with the chair of the committee last week.

Yes, sir. But in this book, it does say $2,500 for MLK, but however, it does have an explanation column where Octavius Murphy said something about 7,000 in there. And then it was on the total line. So I was on the assumption that the 7,000 was in the big total.

I think so as well. I know that's certainly my...

I'm sorry, one last thing. Because remember, for the past couple of years, they've literally been breaking even. And some committee members have even had to come out of pocket to kind of fill in the gaps. So I don't think they ever really have something left over in their conference. I think they've really just broken even. And in some cases, maybe even in... the negative because committee members had to actually come out of their own pockets. I don't think they really counted that towards the overall raise.

I remember exactly two years ago someone actually ended up coming out of pocket.

And the last two years that I was on it, we broke even.

But to Councilman White's point, there was the note that was there. I believe that that funding is still sitting there. It's believe that funding is still sitting there Katherine if you don't mind I know you're quickly scrounging through the book

Just nobody can hear you from over there. I'm sorry, yeah.

Okay, so I know they're wondering about this.

We can give you a lapel mic if you want to just have it on. Like a hockey box over there on the corner.

No, thank you. I'm good. So I'm looking in the book. I was trying to look really quick for Matt, and I thought it was $2,500. $2,500 was fiscal 26. We did fund $7,000 in 27. I read it wrong. I read the note wrong, so I'm sorry about that. Okay. So it is 7K. And they did have money left over this year. Matter of fact, April and I, she called me about that. We cleared it up between my staff and her. So they actually bought some extra supplies for other events just recently because they did have profit to use to spend. So they did actually have surplus.

Yes, sir. I do remember whenever it was said a year or two ago now that it was having to come out of pocket for certain stuff. Is that not the same discussion that led us to make the decision that we were going to put seed leave some money as seed money so that they would that they wouldn't have to be in that situation again and then they could self sustain. That is, if I'm not mistaken, that is the amount of money that we're talking about.

Because again, the intent is that they're going to go out and still do sponsorships and there's still going to probably be ticket sales. Obviously, I don't plan the event, but I'm assuming that. But yeah, we don't want them having to come out of pocket up front for stuff or in general.

But when we did that, then they've been okay since then, right?

That's my understanding. And speaking with the community here, has anyone heard anything different? I'm just curious.

I think the first time we did it was last year, though, right?

Yeah, last year. Right, yeah.

It couldn't have been more than two, but yeah, I think it was one year. But I was like, what we did, did it serve its purpose?

Yes, because Ms. April just said they had an excess and they were allowed to use it for other events.

Okay. Yeah. So we got them turning in the right direction. Okay. Okay.

With regard to the United Way budget, I have been very appreciative of the way that that has worked out the UCAN program. um yeah not to you know delay this conversation or not certainly not to sidetrack it but that has worked really really well and has helped a lot of citizens and um uh and we we are on a very thin budget but if we were looking for a way to increase which i like the budget the way that it's presented But in future years, that would be a place that I believe could continue to service the people of the city in a really strong way. Yes, sir.

I agree with that. And I also like the way that It's administered, and we just sort of allocate the money, and then the United Way folks handle that from there, and then our hands are off of it at that point. And I know it's 50K is what's allocated under in this current proposed budget, but didn't that used to be 100? That's just a general question.

That was when we were doing a bunch of other types of nonprofits as well.

That were rolled into it? Mm-hmm. I got you. Okay, that's all, Mr. Mayor.

So items 4.4 and 4.5 were meant to be sort of catch-alls for exactly what we're doing right here. Are there any other comments, just specifically for 4.4, the utility rate ordinance? Mr. Livingston, do you mind giving just a 90-second reminder? And then if there's any questions we can discuss, if there's any debate we can discuss, and if not, we can call for a vote.

On the entire budget on the utility rate or utility. Well, I'll let Catherine do that because she she drafted the ordinance. Perfect. But, you know, it's essentially the same proposal that I gave before. Right.

Right.

Right. Okay.

Does any before we do this, I realize that we I really do want to allow us to do this before. Does anyone need a nature break? Are we rolling? We're good. You're good. All right. We'll keep going.

OK. So based on the input from city council presentations, I prepared the utility rate ordinance course. We're doing that first because we wanted you to consider that because the rate increase is in the budget ordinance. So we're trying to not get the cart before the horse. So what I presented would be the single family residential water tiered rate structure. So the overall structure is to produce the 5% rate increase. But as presented to council, if they're under that 3,000 gallons usage, it is less as we have shown you. So that's what we've presented. And then other rate blocks for commercial, industrial, the water minimum charges, the sewer, the industrial, and the capitalized rate, those are all at a flat 5%. Those will be effective on or after August 1, 2026. Our large contracted customers that we have, we generally don't pull that in until October 1 because of the way that it is read and the way that it is billed. So essentially what's happening is, and all this too we said on or after August 1, this would be also getting the programming done for the tiered rate system. So a lot of moving parts have got to happen But essentially what we're trying to do is capture if you used water starting in July, you get your bill sometime in August. So that's what we're trying to do. And we're going to do our level best in our department to get that implemented so that the customers can see, you know, that difference in their bill. Okay.

So just the way that is presented in civic plus the budget ordinance, I believe was part of the previous meeting is not the utility rate ordinance is not part of this item is there for council to be able to tap on it from the last meeting or

should be in there.

Yeah, this is so my first item is the utility rate ordinance option. So that's the first one that's got the 5% in it, which is now 4.5, which is 4.4.

All right. Excuse me.

We go back to 4.4.

I just changed it. Not a budget discussion of 4.4.

Oh, OK. Yeah. And is there an attachment for the utility rate ordinance?

There was. Let me look and make sure. Should have been. Should have been. Yeah. Is it at the 5? Should be.

Okay, so council, because I know that we are trying to move. If you would, the 5 o'clock meeting in Civic Plus, if you need to refresh yourself under item 8.1, the utility rate ordinance, in case we did not finish it here, I wanted to have a spot on the later agenda. But the utility rate ordinance is attached to item 8.1 of the 530 agenda for those that need refreshers. But again, it's been discussed.

Any questions?

Council, are there any comments or questions? I'm thrilled at the tiered rate structure. I think that is a fantastic move for reasons ranging from environmentalism to simply looking at cost allocation for our residents. Is there any other debate or discussion on item 4.4 or the utility rate ordinance as presented? Is there a motion to adopt the utility rate ordinance as presented? So moved. Motion's been made to adopt the utility rate ordinance as presented. Is there a second? Second. All right, motions have been made and properly seconded to adopt the utility rate ordinance as presented. Again, the utility rate is on in-civic plus. It is under item 8.1 for anyone needing to refresh themselves. But we do have a motion and a second. Is there any further debate?

Real quick.

Yes, ma'am.

Ms. Catherine, I want to support this and I want to support it because I like the idea that it can actually save our residents some money with conservative uses of their water. However, comma, that software that we talked about that would send alerts and that our customers can actually sit, that is going to be a part of this tier system.

Well, it really didn't have anything to do with the tier system, but it's in the budget. That was something I had asked the manager about. So they told me that once we hit the ground running, it's probably about a six-month turnaround. So I was really hoping for December, maybe January. But y'all have to remember, too, we're trying to get this utility billing system upgrade, and that's been a nightmare. but but anyway we're going to move forward that I'm going to try that because I I really think that would be a huge benefit for our customers to be able to monitor their leaks and course we after we get implemented I need to bring the leak adjustment back to council so that you can look at that policy as well so and we really need to get him in here to do a presentation so you can see how this works abused in other communities it's very effective tool the same price same program and everything else so And we're scheduled for a demo. The management team is scheduled for a demo in June. And then once we can see what it's going to do, and this is the system that works with what we have right now.

Mayor, last thing. Yes, ma'am. The last thing. Is there an opportunity for us to build in some education as it relates to this and about the concern? I mean, we've been doing a great job of putting stuff on social media, but like I'm saying, intentional messaging is that lets people know about conserving water and how they can help themselves when it comes to saving money on their water bill.

I can actually speak to that one, if you don't mind. In the actual newsletter that goes out with the bills, our public information officer has told me exactly what I will be writing about for the next two newsletters, specifically to that point, to try and be very direct about it, in addition to social media posts that she has that are of the same theme. And so to your point, there's absolutely a need for it.

And to the whole thing is it starts with the city council and having them do a presentation or an online teams meeting to this council to see the different features. You will be able to see it and be able to use it and know about yourself and tell your constituents how it works and encourage people to sign up for it. So that's part of what we'll be doing in the beginning as we roll this product out. in different districts, starting with the council, with our newsletter, with our social media.

All right, so we have a motion and a second. There's been conversation. Is there any further debate? Hearing none, I'll call the vote. We'll vote by show of hands. This is now the utility rate ordinance. The motion was to approve and adopt the ordinance as presented. Motion was seconded. We'll call the vote. All in favor, please vote by show of hands. All opposed, same sign. Seeing one, seeing two, motion passes.

I was in support.

I'm in support. Okay. Okay.

Because that's, okay. It was a slow come down. It went from here to here.

All right.

So motion was unanimous.

Okay. There we go. All votes were in favor of the utility rate ordinance as presented. All right, we voted by show of hands so we don't get the little pop-up. Now, item 4.5, is there any other discussion to come before council on the annual budget ordinance?

I do have a question. Yes, sir. And it's not that this is a hill that I'm going to die on, just a quick question. I did call Ms. Bernadette this morning to ask for a duty description for the chaplains for... The fire department and the fire, and she did send it to me. Thank you for that, Ms. Bernadette, wherever you are. However, on the duty description, it said volunteer, but we're paying them a stipend. So I just, could we expound on that?

It was something that was added to the budget to cover expenses. You've got the fire chaplain, for example, and the police chaplain. Both of them respond to a lot of events and need a lot of mileage responding to events that are severe for both our citizens as well as our officers and our fire department. They responded to numerous times where the firefighters were injured. and go and speak with them in the hospital. And so they're absorbing that mileage. And so to me, it seems appropriate that there will be some sort of a stipend to cover that. If the amount needs to be adjusted, then that's certainly an option as well. I don't have a problem.

I just need to know what the duty and description was, what they were actually performing. And then my second thing with that is I understand that those two are doing it now. Is that forever? Amen. Or are we looking to rotate that so we can get more community involved?

That's a good question. Actually, how do the Chiefs, I know that they've been up there for a long time, and the chaplain before that was there for a long time, but how does that work, Matt?

Well, I think it's pretty much who's ever interested in you know, there hasn't been like a long line of people that are interested in I guess one it was totally volunteer type of activity until recently I'm still I'm sure the time that they often spend with its type and doesn't really it's not really intended for that anyhow. But I think it's been on and just who's it was interested in the selected them.

Oh, and that might be something for us to discuss with the chiefs and see if there needs to be a mandatory rotation at some period of time or something like that.

I'll be happy to talk with them about it and come back with some suggestions.

Let's at least find out what would work. Good question. Yes, ma'am.

It's my last name.

I know I talked about a position for community development, but I want to advocate for them. But if it's not a position that's needed, and I know we've got some people in the room that may can speak to that, if it's needed, I really would love to see. I mean, they are superheroes in that department, and they're answering the call every single day to residents needing all kinds of things on top of their jobs based on the description. And I really think that department needs the extra support and help. But I don't know.

We are sort of realigning that department with some extra help. We agree that it does need. We're taking some code enforcement positions and that there aren't being utilized right now that are in shifting them over there. So they're aware of that. So I don't know if because that's something I had Kellyanne working on.

If they're cold and I'm cold and

and and it was a council that he's in that and you're going to get a yes sir. And then the the rate adjustment for parks and rec that which one is in the budget is the 50 or the one. Well I would like to speak to to that piece that they're being home from a slowly back off the hill and not down But I do think that we should look at the 100% adjustment. And the reasoning I give is our city manager said we're in constant conversation with the county to do better. but we have been doing that for a while and it doesn't seem to be sinking in at all meanwhile our parks and things are continuing to be run down so i'm just speaking out loud just put it on the record that i am in favor of a hundred percent increase if it costs a child a hundred dollars to play football then you pay a hundred dollars instead of 75 because we suck up this 25 dollars

Listen, the you showed two different sets of numbers. One was the 50 and 100. Right. And then there was another one that you came back and it was either like, but it was something other than that. You know, I know there are other county youth recreation associations. We did some cost comparisons on that. Is there any guidance that you can offer there?

So that was kind of dialed back by me because of some comments that I heard. And I felt like it would put us in the highest ranking after looking at some comparative other leagues around us. Not by a whole lot. So we can go back to that, my first recommendation. But the idea was, you know, start out here and see where we were next year maybe. But no, you know, if you want to go to the 100%, that's totally up to you guys.

Well, and I want to be real clear, the budget ordinance as presented, Ms. Catherine, if you don't mind coming up, coming back to the podium. And we're okay on time. This is important. The number that is in the ordinance right now was at the initial managed recommended or is it the amended managers recommended.

The amended say it's the 50% not the 150% not $50.

Okay, right 50% yeah. So the parks and recreation fee that is currently in the budget would be one amounts.

So, all right, I did not adjust the revenue numbers for the additional revenue. What the change is in is in the manual of fees and charges that's on the ordinance. That's where the 50% increase is. So there will be some natural increase, you know, revenue over what we budgeted that we could use for something else if the council so designates.

Oh, I think the councilman and I are both honing specifically on the schedule of fees. Either one of you, I can scroll down. I'm trying to run a meeting while not tapping on my iPad. The schedule of fees that is currently part of the ordinance is more.

It's 50% increase and it shows.

What's the base number and what's the higher? What's the city number and the county number?

I can answer that question. It's essentially, don't think of it as a city and county, but the rates are going up 100% instead of for every program.

I'm not asking what percentage. What is the actual number?

It depends on which program because all of them are a little bit different.

For general youth sports.

General youth sports, the number would be $90 for that out of city.

And it would be what number for in-city? $45,000?

It's it's proposed to go up to $5 so be $50 per. So I recall. For the in-city rates.

There was a letter. You have it in front of you, don't you?

I'm sorry. The $100 for the county.

I'm just trying to find one, for example, because the some of the resident rates, Felicia did adjust those as well. So it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

for general use sport in city was the number of those in the only should be you can you look at the schedule and talk to that.

It's $50. And I'm sorry, it's $100 for the out-of-county one, but I'll let her answer that.

So for the proposed new rates for youth sports going forward, if adopted, for city residents, we were proposing going from $45 to $50. So it's a $5 increase for city residents. And then that's where the talk started occurring as far as what we charge non-city residents. Is it going to be... $100, like fully doubling the resident rate or going 50%. So it would be $75.

What's currently in the ordinance? $75. $75. All right. So $50 and $75. Yeah. Perfect. If If we see that this is not having the effect that we need, we can come back and adjust that specific rate mid-year, correct?

Okay. Mr. Mayor. Yes, sir. But given that we've given chance and chance for them to participate, I think that at some point we have to draw a line and make a stand. And I don't think that it's asking too much for them to help take care of the facilities that they most need. Frequent.

Would you mind putting it in the form of a motion?

Sure. I motion that we take the double the increase.

So specifically for youth sports, it would be $50 for residents, $100 for non-residents, if you were to double.

Which is commensurate with the other youth rec leagues outside of the city, to your point. So a motion has been made to go with the full 100% markup over the in-city rate. Correct. All right. Is there a second?

I'm just trying to make sure.

Is there a second? Second. All right. So I'm actually made a properly second and now debate. Yes, sir. I saw you here.

So whenever we this item for the first come up for discussion, I asked the manager during the meeting what what was the methodology for arriving? And he said, well, we just for lack of a better term, we just grabbed it, grabbed a number and put it on the paper. And that's how we got the double is that accurate.

Well it was because that you have as a city resident you're paying both city and county taxes then you in as a county resident you're not paying the city taxes so therefore you basically city residents are theoretically paying you know twice as much in taxes. There's a county residents not so in theory that's why if you added that 100% more on their on the fee for the county resident that would forego the taxes that they're not paying.

When I asked that question of the manager, that's sort of what brought the next step, which was they went back and actually put some study and some thought into each one of the rates for each one of the individualized things and decided that what was presented and what's in the budget as presented for adoption was was an adjustment based on actual investigation of what other surrounding communities are charging and that's why some of our in-city rates were applied and changed, as well as the adjustments. In other words, what ended up starting the conversation versus what ended up being what's in the budget as presented. I think that what ended up in the budget as presented was what was come about after some actual thought and investigative effort was put into it. So I'm in favor of it remaining as is, but I'm not opposed to next week if it decides that it needs to be taken up. I'm okay with that, but based on the fact that what's in the budget was actually come up with through methodology, I'm in favor of it remaining as is. Now I was just going to point that out before the motion was made was why I was just, so it isn't that I'm speaking just against the motion or whatever.

But it was to my understanding that the average is $100 per youth in most of the municipalities that were surveyed.

In other, so a lot of the other rec sports leagues around Wayne County, it ranges anywhere from 85 to 105. Originally, I think it was sort of tossing spaghetti at the wall, but doing a little bit of market survey, it actually does stand firm. It actually is justifiable at that number.

With what's presented, you mean?

With what's actually being presented by the motion to amend the rate schedule to be the 100% markup. Yes, ma'am.

Just to clarify your motion, if you're good. For county residents to pay double rates for parks and recreation programs. Is that clear?

Yes, ma'am. There you go. That's much more concise.

So to amend the rates schedule. For non-resident? Okay. For non-resident. Yes, sir.

To clarify, so what Councilmember Wyatt is suggesting or motioning is whatever the established in-city rate is that's in the current presentation, whatever that is per line item, just double that for out. So it's in, out. Right. Okay.

That was what my original budget presentation was.

Whatever the majority feels, that's what I'm going with. Well, we have.

May I ask you just one question? It's just because I don't know. So I get it that that's for sports. But how about if I'm a county resident and I'm renting like the event center or something at the Herman Park, one of those things. Does the county resident pay more than the city residents?

So for parks and recreation for our parks and facilities, yes. And that was in effect. It was just prior to this budget season, we specifically focused on youth sports and facility rentals as far as what we apply to non-resident fee. Going forward, it's going to apply to our programs as well. as far as like our aerobics classes, pottery classes, you know, all of the other classes and programs that we offer. For the event center, they have a separate budget as far as like their hour block and their schedule is a little different than, for instance, let me try to explain it. For Parks and Recreation, if you rent a room in one of our facilities at WA Foster Center, It's regardless if you rent it on a Monday, regardless of whether it's a Monday or Saturday, it's the same rate. What changes is if you are a resident or non-resident. For the GEC, what changes it is if you rent it on a Monday versus a Saturday, because it's a higher rate to rent it on the weekend versus during the weekday.

Is there any further debate on the motion which is to amend the proposed rate schedule? Yes sir.

To clarify because I'm going to support the motion if that's what the majority feels but just that it is easy right meaning that it's a because I don't want to go back all the way through but it's cut and dry is that in-city, out-of-city. So if we do vote to amend it, it's easy, right? I mean, we don't have to go back and reinvent the wheel or whatever. Just change the click, boom, change a few numbers. I think so. Okay. If staff's okay with that, I'm okay. You good?

I think so. All right. Is there any further debate on the motion? And to be clear, this is just the motion to amend the proposed rate schedule. All right. If there are hearing no, we'll call the vote. Show of hands or electronically?

We can probably show our hands.

All right.

I don't think everybody's logging in.

All in favor of the motion as presented, please vote by show of hands. All opposed, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes unanimously. So with that modification, Is there a motion to adopt the annual budget ordinance as presented? So moved.

Second.

Motions have made and properly seconded to adopt the modified annual budget ordinance. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, we'll call the vote. We'll vote by show of hands. All in favor, please raise your hands.

I'm sorry. All opposed?

Same sign.

I'm sorry.

Seeing none, motion passes. Yes, ma'am.

Can you tell me who motion I was trying to type to motion and second.

I made a motion and missile. I'm sorry.

Thank you.

Okay. And so the motion passed on a seven.

Thank you.

So with that, we have adopted our utility rate ordinance, we have modified and adopted our annual budget ordinance. Having completed all items on the agenda, as, as published, we will entertain a motion to adjourn will then take a 10 minute break and then we will reconvene for our 530 meeting as soon as possible. Those who are able to. So with that, is there a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn.

Motion is made and properly seconded to adjourn. There's no debate on a motion to adjourn. All in favor, please raise your hand. All opposed, same sign. Seeing none, motion passes. We stand adjourned.