Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

We'll u call to order the study session for the planning commission January 21st. Carl, do you want to lead us through?

Absolutely. So, um I didn't prepare a formal presentation for tonight. Um just going with the uh the memo that was provided to planning commission. Uh but the purpose of tonight is to review um the draft work plan uh for 2026. Um and happy to discuss some of the things that you know staff feels like we accomplished um and what I feel was a very successful 2025. But you know always interested if planning commission agrees. Um, you know, I think uh this will ultimately go to city council um as part of their strategic plan um and then present uh with the chair um you know usually later in either February or March um to review the work plan, see what they they feel um is necessary on there. Um, but just looking back at the last year, I think the collaboration with SEESAP and the input, especially as we look at furthering our sustainability goals uh with the energy preferred building code um and planning commission's input um in that process and just working through, you know, I know it is a multi-year um with shifts and twists with federal law and constitutional law and the Supreme Court um and other things, but you know, ultimately Um I think that would not have been a successful effort without your um involvement. And you know I think the other tailor to that is the resilient landscaping um standards that were then also adopt in that same process as we look to remove redundant um aspects of sustainability um and put those tools into the right toolbox in the building code and take them out of the zoning code. Um at the same time, we were able to address our water efficiency goals as well as our wildfire resiliency um goals as well. And there's going to be additional building code uh provisions, especially with the state map. Um the fire department building are

leading that and planning is definitely um involved. But you know, for if we're going to require trees, let's not regret where we plant them later. Um you know, I think is the the key there. Yes.

Question. Um, the years are beginning to run together, but when was when did we do the electric preferred with the sustainability group? I was thinking it was last spring, but was it spring of 24? So, absolutely. So, that was ultimately adopted as part of the uh building code um adoptions in July of 2025. Um, that effort, however, I believe started in 2022 2023. um originally with the original you know um questions about should we you know ban um natural gas uh utilities altogether you know appliances um ultimately the ninth circuit which is usually a little bit more liberal than some of the others um said that that's not an option therefore um you know but it was ultimately adopted last summer

um I think that's worth noting specifically is part of what we did with the sustainability. Just the duration. Well, given the duration and and I mean that's a it seems to me a significant um decision and u moving ahead I think for the city. What about you? I could definitely add some additional details as to, you know, why that accomplish mattered as much as it did given I think your point on duration is a great one. [clears throat]

Um, we did work on uh the state driven um zoning code amendments with tactical changes to our zoning code in um uh relation to um the state law. Um and I I think specifically I think the biggest one and we're working with a our first use of it is the uh residential occupancy standards. So no longer um enforcing based on familial basis um but you know so no more than four unrelated persons no longer um relying on that. But if you have more than four adults, then we're confirming that you meet the health and safety standards with proper egress, smoke detectors, carbon monoxide. Um, and I think that's a lot easier than um what we might say is a show your papers approach on the other one, which I think is not um staff's preference. Show us your smoke detectors is much easier. um the comprehensive plan update. You know, I think that is a uh an effort that we'll have another study session at your next meeting. Um but just again all of the work that went into um your input um to get those uh iterative drafts uh to the state where they're at and ultimately you know with your you know comfort level um after this next study session we'll be looking to start that adoption process uh with public hearings. But, you know, I think it's um certainly a big effort to read um revise and edit that level of draft and comment on it. And, you know, I think your your efforts have been um nothing less than invaluable um to get that draft to the point that it's at.

So, on on this one, and then I see it it's also in the the next um section as well about comprehensive plan adoption. I just want to make sure it stresses that we want to get it right and not fast necessarily. I understand, you know, there's some expectations that we might get we will have it adopted in early 2026. And I think that's fine. I think we can say that, but I also just want to make it very clear to council [snorts] like that we are spending the time that it that's needed to be taken evaluating this. Um, and if it does need to take another study session, you know, I think we should, you know, have that opportunity to. It may not. Um, but I don't necessarily want to set expectations that, you know, we're going to push this through without the appropriate review and and maybe feedback as well.

Absolutely. And I can definitely make that that clear. And I think my favorite analogy when dealing with comprehensive plans is um the plane analogy. We're up in the air currently. Um, we're no longer fixing the wings as we're flying the plane, but at the same time, you know, this is an important document that sets the vision for this community. And you know we want to make sure that that is a smooth landing. Um and so is if we you know after this study session if we anticipate turbulence well that's a reason to stay up in the air. Thank you.

Um initiate a transportation demand management plan. So staff has been working with a consultant. Um this isn't something that's necessarily come, you know, through planning commission. Although you did see um some changes to the parking uh chapter uh that requires a TDM plan if um a property were to reduce their parking requirements. Um so that was adopted and then we'll work on the voluntary um TDM program. Um we're working with a consultant currently and that will ultimately come up to uh planning commission. So, we've been working kind of on the staff level with the consultant. Um, but ultimately that would likely be coming to planning commission and is certainly MTAP um as that goes forward. Um, and then just you know, planning commission we we did um your recommendation was in 2024, but the uh changes and overhaul of chapter 1810 and then chapter 1828 was adopted by council um early this year or early last year in 2025. So I think that's just another effort. Um and then we've been working to um improve our communications as well. So looking at the hubs uh communication of how we um communicate notice and other things. Um so trying to make our code more digestible and we're working actively on our website um to make some improvements uh some significant improvements in that realm. But I think just overall you know how do we communicate process? How do we engage uh the public with development in this community? I think you know we've tried to make that you know more approachable both from process but also the code and regulation. So, and then ultimately the uh five six six um that we can we stop there for a minute and just see I mean are there um other things that we on the

commission think are uh we ought to include as work done and either things accomplished or in process. process or that we worked and sweated over um that should be mentioned as part of the the review for 25 accomplishments and so on. Is it important to have a record of like the number of applicants that came before the commission? Like is that a record that we that the planning commission typically like publicizes and would that be helpful for the community to know about

workload KPI? We could certainly do that. Um and I think it's also you know how many did not come to the board I think is another rounding point in that you know how many forms on site plans you know ultimately were you know approved without you know being called up even though it they do get that public notice um piece I think that's something that we can certainly look to add to that work plan or good good idea yeah I I know it's under [clears throat] our 2026 goals and I think it we started the work in 2025, the evaluating of the of the form-based code. And

I think you know maybe starting a little bit talking about that because I think we did do a lot of work you know building a foundation for what we want to see when we do our evaluation. But I think um you know we did take several study sessions at least two to three um to talk specifically about uh the formbbased code kind of areas of improvement um just some analysis and I think we there's certainly a much much deeper dive that we need to do um but we did we did start that work in 2025 y and what we do in 26 will be in large part based on done that. Yep.

Sorry, I should have had my notepad out earlier. I assume maybe just it was perfect. No changes. Um, anything else from thoughts or ideas

specific to the last year to let Yeah. to the Yeah. 25.

Okay. So um you know to dovetail into that um you know one of the main points of um conversation is going to be um those form based code amendments um as we look to know more kind of largecale phases um we're out of the phase one phase 2 phase three of zoning code amendments and now um looking at tactical changes and I think some of those you know as we look to potentially introduce um either new form types um you know like the two cottage cluster um or um to allow for certain form types um in the different overlays um you know in kind of that borrowing strategy that will come with a lot of engagement um and you know a lot of additional work but there's also known you know fixes to the zoning code that we're looking to do the half story and those other things um and I think we want to make sure because a lot of those can get into very technical um aspects and you know just make giving the time um to work through those. Um but if there's any questions on this one or um you know how it's described to uh to city council and the planning commission. Yeah, I would I would say that we did start to kind of dive a little bit deeper into some of the analysis of what we had what had been approved and like what is actually built and what does that look like and is that was that the intent. Um I think we need to continue that conversation. Um I think a lot of the you know homes that are being built are much larger and maybe not quite fitting in with the the neighborhood as as well as we had hoped originally. is is there anything we can do to further refine the existing form types to maybe kind of make that a little bit more um in line of what's already in the neighborhood. Um I think that would

potentially help with you know affordability. You know that's all relative but um you know I think we we talked about those three large homes that were put in and kind of by the golf course. You know is that is that truly what we're looking for? Um, is that really achieving like the intent of the form zone code? You know, they're all selling for like $2 million. Is that is that really what we want in in Golden? Um, so I think just maybe looking at different I sure [laughter]

um so just Yeah, I mean I think it's worth a further conversation. Does someone do you think like adding a little just you know a continued review of lessons learned and um review and refine the code lessons there would be worthwhile enough? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I mean I think we're constantly as we review these cases finding things like oh like we didn't really mean for this to be this way. Um so it might just be worth kind of having a continual conversation about it.

Okay. um a good old repeat offender. So, the uh Golden Terrace uh manufactured home park uh reszoning. So, um this will ultimately um we anticipate will come to planning commission this year. Um we have a draft document that's um being reviewed um by uh the community members and then going ultimately to a neighborhood meeting which will be required um with any reasonzoning uh prior to that formal application. Um and so we have made a lot of progress uh with the property owner and engaging the community. Um and you know this will ultimately become a quasi judicial hearing um in front of planning commission and then city council uh with that uh reszoning to PUD and then that PUD amendment for that section that already is uh zoned PUD. But ultimately um we are with a sturdy knocking on wood um anticipating this to come to a uh fruition this year.

What is February 12th? I also have the same question. That is a great that is the night of the neighborhood meeting and apparently that sentence was not finished. So February 12th is the uh neighborhood meeting.

Okay. Okay. Um, and with that, the comprehensive plan adoption, you know, I I purposefully just added this is when we anticipate, but we didn't add any firm dates. Um, and that's with anticipation. So, you know, you have a study session um, you know, and ultimately it is ready for adoption when it's ready. So, um, if it needs to bake longer um, on the plane, then we can, you know, make sure that that happens. But um you know again thank you for all the work that you've done to get that draft to the place where it's at.

And is the I looked on guiding golden today is is what is there for the comprehensive plan the full most recent draft? So, we are getting that back from the uh design um graphic designer I think either tomorrow or Friday and we'll get that up as soon as we have that. Um there were some tweaks to some language um refinement there. Um but then also, you know, just the the substance um we will publish it as soon as we have it back in the graphic designer. So, it's the what's going to be published in the next couple of days is what we'll when we meet on the 4th.

Correct. So, could you send us an email when it gets posted? Yes. So, then we know that it's the the one that we actually should look at. Yes,

I will do that. Um, you know, I think the other thought we had kind of a working draft with a also a word dock for certain things. We felt that it was better for planning commission to see a more finalized product and you know kind of a piece in in pieces. But yes, I will make sure that that email is sent as soon as it is up to the public if not sooner. Um I think this is a topic that you know was presented to you by the uh a grad student. Um so we have a requirement for a commercial uh floor when you're proposing residential in a uh commercial zone. So C1, C2, um our CMU, commercial mixed use zones. Um if you want to do residential, then 25% of that has to be um commercial for area or it could be 100% affordable housing units. Um like you saw on 817th Street or you go to planning commission for a special use permit. Um, you know, I think this is work that was analyzed um by the grad student and it's kind of taking that next formal step with that to look and say, can we maybe adjust some of that commercial floor area um in exchange for affordable dwelling units? Um and I think the coal over on Kfax is a good example where um they determined and you know kind of provided that market analysis to say we can't um fill 25% commercial area um just the market can't handle that level of retail or office and got a PUD amendment to still do a mixeduse development but to reduce that commercial area. The idea is could they have maybe a pathway um to do that in exchange for some affordable units um to

reduce that commercial area. Um so that's a topic that we're looking forward to uh you know coming back to you with and I think that pairs actually well with the um formbbased code um changes potentially um because some of our you know in those commercial zones you have form types either residential or the mixeduse building type that's allowed in those and yet they're kind of not built for that 25% % 75% mix. Um and so there's some opportunity, you know, could you reduce that in exchange? Um if you're developing those those types and it just gets a little bit into that, um mix between use based code, right? chapter 1828 and then the form based code and how can we have things that fit the community needs in a number of ways either by characteristics or by those uses or by delivering you know community beneficial affordable units. So I think that's just a conversation that we're looking forward to have and I think it pairs well with some of those other zoning code changes potentially.

So what do you envision that process would look like? We we would we have some specific to look at for for approval or for recommendation to city council or that we use those to try to develop some guidelines uh you know potentially maybe as far as regulations but at least guideline I'm just trying to think about what that would look like.

Yes, absolutely. So the way staff envisioned this first um move like city council to bless this work plan uh with this item on it. Council might say neat idea. Yeah, it's been floated in the past. We are not in support, you know, this doesn't have, you know, our blessing to continue that work, right? So, we're kind of on waiting to see if council agrees with this being on that work plan. And if they say no, maybe in another year or, you know, not at all, um that's their prerogative and you know, staff would not spend the resources on it. If they do say, "Yeah, this is a um valuable um conversation for planning commission to work on." Um then staff anticipates starting with a um legal memo to help give provide some of those options. Um as you just laid out, what are some things that we look at from a process perspective, right? What are you know what are those ratios for if you deliver this number of units how much relief from the commercial side do you get right are there geographic considerations or other places where um you know what's the criteria that you might review this under rather than framing out red lines to the code or building out those regulations that's what the legal memo would really outline is you know thinking of it as framing a house right here's all the different framing techniques and how the design you might consider as this, you know, moves forward. And then based on feedback from planning commission and the city council, we would then draft those regulations, um, you know, from that and actually build out those rags um to say this is what we heard. Here's how that would function, you know, in more of a regulatory um framework rather than legal memorandum. Um, and so that's the process that staff

anticipates, but again, we would like to see does this stay on that work plan.

I think, you know, related to this, but also a number of other um items on our list, I'd really like to see that housing needs assessment um before we kind of go too far down into some of these things because I think we need to understand like what are we trying to achieve here? And we did get um actually the draft um addendum to the needs assessment and that really the addendum is focused on the additional pieces um that were called for with the HB24-174 um and some of its you know displacement risk analysis um accessible unit analysis. So that would be an addendum rather than a fullon new HNA um housing needs assessment. Um but we'll definitely uh provide that when with planning commission with the old or the 2022 HNA plus the addendum um for your considerations.

I was going to ask a similar question in the council. So the city's

strategic plan from last year there was something called I think the healthy housing project. Is that the same thing as the needs assessment or is that something else? Uh I I think they can safely be categorized as related but not necessarily the same. And I think the health healthy um housing um you know also looked at potentially um you know maintenance things and I I would defer ultimately to Lauren McKenna and thriving communities. Um so related but not necessarily you know directly that that information into our conversations here because it's It's kind of gentle, but not specifically related to our

correct. Yeah, it's not really a I think the housing the healthy housing um wasn't really an owned by a zoning or planning process. You know, I think it it roped into a different realm. Okay. Do we do we as a group want to get the that those the 22 housing report plus the updates um or at least the links for those or whatever um at the same time that we know that we get the information about the comprehensive plan and that yeah that was really part of I mean

absolutely part of the the same conversation so on so the H&A is a rather meaty document. Um I'm happy to send the link to that. Um you know it it really if you want that with only with the addendum we can wait. Um or you know the addendum is about 18 pages. The H&A is above 200. So you know if you want to get a a head start on that um I just happy to um or I can send a link and you can just wait to open it if you want you know both documents at the same time. Um but happy to send the uh the H&A.

Thank you.

So as I mentioned um you know staff is actively working on um overhauling our portion of the website. Um so the city adopted the new website um about a year ago and you know that came with a revision of how we communicated. So rather than going to oh that's the community development department it was refocused on what are the services that people might be trying to get to. So short-term rentals even though that's in community development there you go just straight to there in that topic. Excuse me. with that there were um changes to some of the you know how much content did you have how many pages did you have you know I think we're at a place where especially as we communicate um our development applications um our formatting standards our requirements so we get more consistent um applications uh that helps staff that also helps planning commission when the tables look the same. So that way even though they're very different applications, some of these things can be apples to apples, right? um you know we are working to like I said make the code more um digestible more approachable um along with process and so I think you know given that we also would like planning commission's work and feedback um with those efforts um you know sometimes it makes sense to us planners that's because we live this you know this is our jobs and getting that you know community perspective um from you I think is something that you know would be valable um as we continue to work with communications and you know here's the changes we made here's how we think it's better do you agree and I think that goes a little bit with the other you

know just ongoing how do we make this process um better for planning commission for the community and you know development of this community

we do [clears throat] we have or does communications have uh anything built into the process to get feedback from citizens that are, you know, or users. I mean folks who've been applicants and you know go through a part of the process and say oh this makes more sense than what I thought it might or you know this was really challenging to deal with or you know whatever the the feedback might be but to have some sort of thing in addition to planning commission and staff and so on I I can say that I don't think there's anything formal Um and you know with a survey I think um on an anecdotal basis usually if we have um repeat meetings and um you know the continued comment repeat comment um you know that's a place where oh this isn't being explained quite as well. I think building envelope areas beas is an example. So, you know, staff developed a a video now um and we're hoping to have a place where we can better advertise that, but it's on YouTube um on the city's YouTube pages um that helps try to explain here's how you measure BAS, right? Here's how these percentages work because some of the percentages are meant to add to 100%, some of them don't. And you know, just how those um area measurements, you know, are considered. I think that falls under it. Um so we do see you know we hear pain points um you know some applicants get it and their project moves pretty quickly sometimes uh they get stuck on a particular aspect um and I think that's just another aspect of the the job um sometimes we see what we call design by review so they bake up a concept and then they come to us and say does

this meet your code rather than reading the code and then designing their concept And I think that's just a place where we want to make sure and this is not to say that you know I think we're looking for ways to make it easier to engage with that code to begin with because if that barrier is too high then that's the result that we get and so I think that's the other piece that you know we are looking at constantly um you know it's it's hard that everyone every project's different every quality of submission can be varying We're always looking to make sure that that is the easiest way to get the best vote forward. So, how often does that happen where people aren't really following the code and just hoping for you to rule on it? It depends on degree. Um, you know, it's how much did they understand a particular piece? Sometimes it's a misunderstanding, sometimes it's a I didn't even realize that existed. Um, and you know, there's usually keys that they maybe didn't read our code. They'll have references um to Denver standards, for instance. Um, and vocabulary like zone lot. Zone lot is a concept that does not exist in the golden zoning code. It exists in Denver. And so when we see site plans with those markers, it's usually an indication that you're you're just kind of copying and pasting from other codes, not necessarily ours. So I there's different ways. Um it's hard to put a number to it. Um and it just depends on which sometimes if it's fully baked on a full concept, it gets hard to redesign that to our code. Um you know, I I think that's a where it really is the hardest. If it's just little tweaks around the edges, you know, interpretation, things like that, that's you know, we look forward to working on those.

And speaking of better applications, um, you know, I think and I I certainly will, um, you know, speak. So I think big happening. So the junction um that's the 52 acre uh property that was formerly um Jefferson County Open space on the north side of the city. Um that was has now been formally annexed into the city. So they were able to close on the property um meet certain conditions um and they'll be starting now with their actual entitlement processes with preliminary plat um and other things and you know they're definitely working continued with Excel um C dot and other pieces um you know clay works is an ongoing development and we expect um a number of applications to come in from them um this next year. I think it's also while I didn't put it specifically in the section I can certainly speak to it. So um the state is actively um has a published uh RFP. So that's a request for proposal. It's either a request for a proposal or RFQ request for qualifications. But basically they are soliciting um applications from the development community to partner to develop um a roughly 40 acre site just to the south um between the golf course and the uh the boys juvenile detention center um off of Johnson Road. Right now that's you know used as a recreation bike park um area property owned by the state. However, um you know, when they do select a developer, that property is zoned R1 and you know, because they it's even though it's a P3, so public private partnership, um you know, I it doesn't share the same um pathways as for instance, the school of mines. So, it

would need to go through any um golden process for subdivision uh for uh reszoning. Um and you know, our processes and so you know we are um working through that. We've uh staff has responded to a number of um interests and requests. Um you know I think that the pieces um they have an existing access off of Johnson Road. Um they are limited to that one access at least to Johnson Road. um or at least we're telling people to plan for only one access um because we have a charter provision um that notes, you know, if you dispose of um public recreation land, it goes to a vote of people. Um you know, I think it's I'll I'll defer ultimately to the attorneys on how they provide that at least a staff's initial reaction to that charter provision is um any request for additional access would have to go to a vote of the people. Um so we'll see what ultimately um developments come in but access can limit um you know certain size and other things. So we're getting ahead but ultimately we don't have a formal application in however planning commission will be involved um again with any platting. Um so it does have to go through uh at a minimum a preliminary and final plat. So it's a large property that goes through a major subdivision process. Those are public hearings. It would also, you know, unless somebody comes in with single household units in peripheral, it would need, you know, a reasonzoning most likely for any concept they're putting forward as well. So, um, you know, ultimately these are quasi judicial hearings. Um, so you know, and staff will have preliminary, you know, pre-allocation meetings when they've determined who the actual partner is with those and then, you know, there'll be neighborhood meetings and other things. So, there'll definitely be um

engagement. We're kind of in a see what the uh the RFP process um produces and that closes on March 16th. So, is this the one right across from the post office? Uh, no. That's That's actually Excel. Um, this is what looks to be a bit of a field. It's like the Taco. It's by It's like right across from the Taco Bell almost. It's like a weird like U-shaped property. There's that funny little road with the Osprey nest kind of in that little It's like a little light post. Maybe there's like an existing uh cross country bike track in that area. Okay.

And then the road that goes up to the school. Yeah. Right. Okay. How big was that? So about 40 acres. Wow. Um you know that if you can imagine in your mind, so going left out of the shopping center on, you know, going west on Johnson Road, it's that property. It it's you have the access point into the the institution. Um it's just to the west of that kind of a squareish rectangularish property. So it's not on it's not doesn't face on or south. It does. No, it does not face on South Road. It faces on Johnson Road.

Oh, I see. Yeah. There's a post on Next Door about it if you want to see. Oh, so discourse. Yep. Yeah, that's exactly it.

Has there been a lot of interest in the RFP? uh you know we're I we get a number of questions um about you know potential proper you know process potential um infrastructure and you know kind of other input um yeah there's been interest um and I don't think it's going to be a single person who applies for we'll see ultimately who may go forward um and with that I think we see a number of other applications um coming our way this year um those we know some big ones. Um you know I think there's always the little ones too that you know sometimes take those times. Normally this doesn't end up as part of a work plan, but I think you know it does you know we do anticipate this to take up um you know with the known ones and then the unknown ones um you know agenda uh capacity and you know affording our applicants the due process um that they you know are required. So you know it's just something I think as we look at this um you know it's a a year that I think of this warrants a place on the work plan. Um, with that said, um, you know, I think I would ask, you know, and, you know, invite the chair to open up the floor. Is there anything else that you see, um, or don't see or, you know, want, um, you know, added for planning, you know, for city council's kind of consideration of, you know, these are our priorities that staff didn't accurately reflect in this draft. I think this is, you know, that time and I would ask for if you see things that you say no, this should be a priority for planning commission that staff didn't um capture. I, you know, would welcome that uh discussion.

I have a question just before we get to do we is there a role for planning commission? Will we see the Calgary Flats development? Is there anything that we are involved with that?

So that's the uh 40 unit affordable housing off of uh 14th Street. Um ultimately that site development plan that form zone site plan was approved administratively. Um it was posted for callup and it didn't get a call up. Um, you know, that was also I would say before we had the one 123 affordable housing go process, um, we were able to review and approve that within 90 days of a complete application. Um, so um, but that was um, you know, sent up and I think they're working still through some uh, getting their building permit submitted and I think you know ultimately council's made some decisions about you know funding and you know other things. So, um it's possible we'll keep when construction starts um actively on that, we'll certainly keep that up on guided building um for any construction updates. But, um from a planning commission role, um it'd beformational at this point.

And then before we jump into other things, I just want to touch base on the development applications and review number six. Um we did move our start time to 5:30. So, I think we're trying to accommodate, you know, more business while also ensuring that we're getting out because I know we all have early mornings. Well, I do. Um, and I just want to confirm, I know I think in our bylaws we have an end time unless we vote on it. Can you remind us what that is? I don't we haven't gotten to it honestly in in years. Um, but it sounds like we might have some agenda agenda. We could Yeah, could have. We can definitely confirm. Um, I think it might be 10 p.m. unless we vote otherwise. I was thinking 9:30, but maybe

it might be 9:30. I can't I don't I don't remember for sure, but we'll hold for answers.

Yeah, it might be worth revisiting that. Um, I staff has done a really great job, you know, with our agendas that we haven't had to go that late. Um, I know thinking back to Kors Tech whenever we were uh originally at Clay Works when we were originally looking at that, we had a lot of late nights. a lot um and that that hear those those hearings there went over multiple hearings and I I think we need to ensure that every single application we look at we're giving the appropriate amount of review no matter how long it takes um even if we go late and even if we have to continue the case you know I'm just you know me imparting some realism you know on some of the things especially you know especially if staff feels like it's this is something that's you know facing us in this coming year that we need to be prepared for. Yeah.

So, the board and commission manual is what has that and it says all meetings shall adjourn no later than 10 p.m. Okay. Or as soon thereafter as the hour may be brought to the attention of the chair. Chair. It's up to you. Majority vote of those present at the meeting. Such a meeting may be extended to 10:30. Meetings may be extended past 10:30 p.m. but only upon adoption of a motion to suspend the rules. So, there you go. Unless there's some other time somewhere else in one of the other documents, but I think that's what it is. So that sounds like it's across the board for all the boards and commissions. Yeah.

But not all the boards and commissions start at 5:30. Like some of them start later, right? You've given yourselves a shower. Yeah. Great. Thanks. Yeah. Are we still all comfortable with doing with starting at 5:30? Yes. That seems to work. Yeah,

I think planning commission when we looked at making that rule change noted that it does limit some people from maybe starting at the beginning of the meeting and yet when you have um you know people with obligations late into the night or families to get back to you know as meetings were hitting that you know later point that styy's engagement at the end of the meeting. So I think it's, you know, given that you've been able to work through um and there's a number of ways that people can engage um it seems to have met a happy middle. So looking forward to spending a lot of time with you guys. [laughter]

Sorry. Sorry. No, that's fine. Um [clears throat] this seemed to me a pretty comprehensive view. Um are there other things though that we um want to note in this or clarify in terms of the in terms of the description?

Nothing occurs to me but I kind of question structurally Carl, if you could. So, this it looks it's organized differently than last year's. And I'm not saying last year's was right or better, but I'm just curious of if there was feedback that you were getting specifically from council or between staff and this one, this one is more of a narrative, right? The last time you had smarty goals and a matrix and it was organized in a way that mapped the strap plan and other things. What was the why the why the shift in formatting and and methodology?

Yeah, absolutely. Um because I got an email last year telling me this is the format that we're using. And it might still come into that for the final um council uh packet when this you know moves on to to that you know from a just um you know this is the format put it into this and we can certainly put that in and I think staff you know that's part of that this is when we plan to work on it. I think, you know, there's a it has some of that baked into the narratives. Um, and if that's the format that we ultimately put this back into, that's, you know, but yeah, do we have a responsibility or is it as a to be conscientious to um connect the narrative to the strategic plan? That's what the That's what that

Well, maybe just follow that link just so everybody can I think it's at the bot the bottom of your letter, right? Yeah, I heard the same question which is it it is a little more overt in its connections and that could be easily added and it wasn't necessarily an omission. My question was like yeah just for digesting both by council and or the public is it was it a better format?

No, absolutely. And I think the other piece with the uh the work plan and I'll just note so when you get into the strategic goals some of these are council initiatives and I think the one that has the most you know there are a few that are one to one overlaps right the comprehensive plan for instance um you know zoning code amendments and then you know I think yeah sorry more I think more our work this your second link the the one to one document what our work plan was for 25 Not not this one, the other.

Yeah. So that's the correlary to the one we just reviewed which had you know more of a matrix and connections. Again [clears throat] I don't Yeah. I [snorts] it's it's pluses and minuses. I'm not lobbying for it but it does address like Ross's question. It is quite overt. you can look at it in a glance and understand that column one if you're wanting to you know if your suggestion that council could line line item out some initiatives that we've elevated um that helps create the context for you know why why is that decision being made

I kind of like that format um just because it's kind of um everything together in the place. You know, [clears throat] you already see the the connections and and so on and so on, but I'm I'm guessing that there will be some requests to make it consistent. Yeah, I can definitely do that. I think that for the you know, I heard and I can certainly move this back into um this this other format. Yeah, I'm just looking for context. Like I say, I can I can see pluses and minuses both if council and or staff or some got any feedback of harder, easier. You know what? Yeah,

it seems like like the narrative you printed is a is a really nice simple outward facing tool. It tells a story, you know, whereas the grid is more of a work. that which would be helpful for us to ref. But you know, I can certainly Right. Yeah. Maybe once it's finalized, if council wants it in this format, that's great. But I think maybe like as an end product for us, maybe something like that.

It would not shock me if I also got an email saying I missed the emails. [laughter] especially since you have new council members. That's true. [laughter]

Hey, Carl. Um, so council has mentioned that uh it's important to look for opportunities for attainable housing. Have have you thought about or and I know this is a sensitive topic but the junction and this other property you thought about opportunities there maybe emphasizing that a little bit more and the mix of Yes. No, I think um you know that is constantly when people talk about especially reszonings, you know, it's not what's in it for you, it's what's in it for the city. And I think you know maintaining and achieving those visions and those goals is a key component of that. Um attainable and affordable housing is very much a part of, you know, what staff tells people. Um you know, and so when the conversation comes up, we we certainly emphasize that. Um you know I think the state also they have their own goals you know prop 123 and you know a number of others and so there's no formal concepts or you know this is what we're absolutely doing but I I know that that you know is I think emphasized also in the state's RFQ um you know what they are are looking for for people to consider um you know but absolutely it is you know and we look at thats also from when we get you know the non-policy questions right and is this a pattern is this a trend and I think the the ones over on 24th in Illinois is you know and in context yes it's next to the golf course which also has some of the highest property values um in the area and so but we do look at that and say is this still performing to our expectations and we have those internal conversations as well as a

staff um so But, you know, we certainly um you know, we have those. So, maybe not to add to the work plan specifically, but um as time allows and as staff time allows, if you could provide us some updates on the legislative session. This looks like it might be a very active one um potentially for land use items with one bill already being introduced. It was a good idea.

Not I mean obviously like at the end when we know for a fact what's going to be impacting um local governments but even you know along the way it's kind of interesting to follow along if you have time understanding that sounds like you've got a big workload and so will we. No, I I think that's also, you know, as staff and planning commission have talked about um and I we talked about it and I promptly stopped doing it, but the emails also in providing that space and um you know, here's the things that we've talked about. Here's where they're at. Um and just doing a better job to keep things either on the radar or where they are, you know, if we want to use the oven, you know, where they are in the baking process. Um and I think having updates on the state legislative um is certainly fits within that. So I will um commit to you that I will get better um to utilize that um for those updates. Good suggestion. Thank you. Other comments, thoughts, any glaring things that somehow we missed in this pretty comprehensive list. I think it's pretty comprehensive

just um is I guess our new chair Ross um is gonna be presenting this to council uh I believe or at least present I think it's a March hearing or study session that they have.

Yep. Okay, that's exactly it. So we'll have the formal um and I think that's a great point just to um remind on some of our member process. So, um we will need new elections. Um and if we don't get regular business, I'll just put one on the agenda so that we can open it up. Um have that formal election um process. Um so, chair, vice chair, um I reviewed our bylaws. Uh Mark Heran, commissioner is now a full member, so there's no additional steps that need to be taken. Um so, you'll fill in for [clears throat] um now council member Kzinski. Um and then you are eligible for two full terms in addition to completing um the former chair.

Stuck with us forever forever. Um the other unless I get booted out early, right? Um [laughter] you know, I think the uh no one is coming up on their second uh full term, so we don't have any commissioners term limited. Um and I would invite um

well not well in like two years two years but um so this year um 26 2026 we do have terms ending but no one's second term is ending this year. So um you're welcome to reapply. Um and you know I I think we have a very strong commission. Um and you know I I hope I get to work with all of you um you know into the next year. But I'll provide updates on uh dates and applications in that process. So, um when they become open

and I'll provide kind of the full where people stand. You know, I think um Commissioner Colbert wasn't here tonight, but you know, I think she was filling in for a partial term. Therefore, you know, she is eligible for two more full terms. Um and so, you know, as those terms come up, I'll I'll provide those um as the followup. Sorry, going back to just occurs to me as this work plan. It seems like after it could be a tool at the chair's discretion to build this out after council approves it like like suggested you know for topic one has you know 1 A 1 B 1 C could be built out after high level buy in and actually provide a you know provide a clearer more granular idea about, you know, unpacking all those things that we know are are baked into these high level things. It seems like it's a it could be a helpful document to guide throughout the year if we spent some time after the approval.

What those what this means really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What Yeah. Yeah. What are the what are the top four things in each category that and some are more circumstantial you know specific case won't have that but some of these high level ones you know one three well five you know so more than half of them probably have four subsections in them we've already identified in tonight's discussion

absolutely and I I think that's also like we can certainly work you with staff on the engagement plan is on the form based code that will be tied with you know I think parallel with the um historic preservation guidelines and then also the like there's a number of things that will help um those be robust conversations and so we can certainly work with the chair to uh review that and say is this timing you know working with your expectations I have a question I guess sort of followup to that. After we talked last time, it occurred to me that um the formbbased discussion might be a um good time to or a good topic to um really see think look at some way to formally engage with the historic preservation board whether it's a joint meeting whether it's uh you know if there's enough conversation to do a subcommittee you know kind of thing like we did on on the sustainability stuff um that model I you know having participated I I found really productive so I was curious as to whether that's resonates with other people as well

nodding heads great idea Yeah, I think it it's connecting the dots here in the there's the last column in the work plan has connection with other boards and the to the extent that yeah the sentence is added maybe the number one to capture that I think would be appropriate if everybody is seeing it the same way. I think the HPB is working on updating their I don't know you want to call it not regulations or are they um and how how can we tie in to that and make sure that we're in alignment and we understand what their goals are and vice versa and make sure that it's complimentary and we're working together.

Y so th those would be the historic preservation guidelines. Um and then also you they're doing contact statements for the the districts and um and other things. So that's that and I think there is a zoning component um as part of that conversation especially when looking at like um the mostly preserved structure standards and is that a way like we have an example where they actually refaced their front but to make it more historic and therefore broke themselves out of the mostly preserved structure. So, is there some ways that when dealing with historic structures that we could, you know, have the zoning code um help and not hinder those goals? And I think that's a a conversation that would definitely be valuable between the two commissions

and they commission and the board

and they are presumably doing the same task in terms of what their work plan for 26 is. where they have overlaps or intersects or whatever. So [clears throat] does that have we provided um feedback that's helpful for you in terms of you know massaging these some and then you know the the question of presentation whether you know, certainly whatever a council wants. Plus knowing or having heard that, you know, something that's a little more chart oriented, at least that's what I heard, we thought might be helpful for us in terms of our working with it. and Kevin's um suggestion of really parceling out or not parceling out but detailing out what's uh what are the real tasks that go with these um goals and and general statements. we certainly uh make those and you know I heard just some overall tweaks to the narratives and addressing some of the work that's gone into these especially longer efforts and ongoing ones. Okay, thank you. I think that's helpful and glad that it's helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to meet tonight. You know, like I said, I wanted to make sure that this had the space. Um I know we kind of said May and maybe we won't be meeting

in the second meeting in January, but I appreciate you making the time um and being here because I think this helps give this the full breadth that it it needed and then also, you know, gives that space for the comp plan um conversation for that first meeting and then, you know, we'll see where our applicants fall and they can get those baked up fully for uh notice and all those other things. So, thank you for that. So, [clears throat] just in terms of thinking about the next couple of weeks, um when when the comp plan gets back for folks, you'll let us know when it's up. Um and our we'll have a study session uh in two weeks with the topic being uh updated updated discussion of the comp plan. Um with the understanding that um we're going to take the time that we feel is necessary and raise the questions that we feel are necessary uh for that process to continue but not necessarily have a artificial date about completion. But that's what we'll do in the meeting on the 4th. Um and then based on that conversation have some idea of kind of you know then what the next step is. And you think that probably by the 18th that maybe have uh an applica an application or or two that we might that might be ready for us to look at.

We expect something as will be uh for regular business. um on the 18th. And like I said, I think from our study session on the comp plan, we'd be looking at um you know, a go no-go decision. Um depending um and if it's a no-go, then that's you know, planning commission's prerogative and say no, bring this back for another round. or if there's you know we are confident that based on the feedback and you know changes that you can make those um you know generally non-s substantive just you know tweaks around the edges but we're comfortable to uh bring this forward as a public hearing um conversation. And I think that's where we're we're looking um you know for planning commission's feedback from that study session. Um and then we'll figure out agenda capacity and you know how much time do we think of um given the extensive conversations? You know would we double book a night with the comp plan and something else? We'll take a look at that because you know we don't want to overbook it and then you know something gives either from a due process perspective or from a public engagement on the community vision perspective. So, you know, I think that's where we'll shuffle around and and see what works to uh to move things around. So, um if there's time and capacity for both, you know, but I think that's a a component that we we'd look at um after the next uh uh study session on the conflict.

I will not be here on the 18th, just heads up. Okay. Are you [clears throat] would it be an option to be uh online or just not not available? Um I'll be in a ski trip in Montana. No. So probably probably not online. That's the answer. Okay. Isn't that um is that right after President's Day?

Uh yes. Yeah, it's the Wednesday after President's Day. I might be out of town, too. we will certainly take uh attendance into account as well. So corums matter and yeah you know if we if we do need you know we'll we'll take a look just to manage expectations and timelines. So I think each of us could kind of look at that in term you know when we get together on the fourth we kind of know what we're six

what was that uh four actually is four. However if we're adopting you know something like the comp plan we'd certainly want you know the um as many as possible. do we have in our bylaws or do we even have bylaws anymore since we have the standardized boards and commissions? [clears throat] So why the reason why I'm asking is at least in the jurisdiction that I work for uh for a comp plan amendment or to adopt a comprehensive plan um it's required to have all seven members of the planning commission present.

Um and then me I don't I don't know if that's the same for us. That's why good question. I don't know. We'll have to we can look. Um I don't know if there's anything like that. We have a supplemental rules. Yeah. So it bylaws by any other name I guess but Those basically became the what replaced the bylaws was the supplemental rules and procedure that addended the uh um the ones adopted by council for the and we can certainly as we look to schedule the public hearing. Um we'll double confirm uh commissioner attendance. My initial

um guess is that um because the jurisdiction you refer to is statuto. Sure. um you know that state law that states that. Whereas as a home rule, if we don't have anything that doesn't um you know require it, then um it goes to just our our default and andor our desire to to to and planning commission have a preference but that's robust discussion. But we can't we can Yeah. that one person is going to be here each meeting for like the next three months. [laughter]

Great. Thank you. Thank you. Great. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for putting this together.