Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

February 24th planning and zoning commission meeting um to order. This meeting is held in person as well as on Zoom. Uh the web the you can call it at 253-2158782. Um or excuse me, that is the Tacoma phone number. It's 719359-4580 web ID um 8638055264 and um we will have a roll call with commissioners stating their name tonight. Kyle Jones.

Yeah. So, could we as we do this, could we just go across the row? So, we're trying to use this transcription and could you just say your name um when you get when you get called on so that the AI knows who you are for purposes of tracking the conversation, right? It's I don't know why the it's not activating. Yeah. And you know, for tonight, I'd suggest that when you guys are up, we just turn on all the mics. There's only five of you. It's not going to be a problem. Amy Conton Joy White,

John Hton, Connie Gin. Okay, great. Um, so we'll move to receive the minutes from December 18th. Did we have any discussion on those or correct?

Um well, I'll make a motion to approve December meeting minutes um with one question, not necessarily a correction, but there was something that Commissioner Cowen said that wasn't responded to by staff. I'm assuming staff responded to all of our questions. It was on page two. It was, "Can we highlight the other programs in the community while we do education on this?" And there was no response from staff, but I'm sure you responded to us. I I'm sure I said yes. Yes. I'm sure you gave You didn't give us a silent.

Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? Second that motion. Okay. Okay. And we'll just do a verbal. Oh, questions been called. Do we approve the minutes?

Okay. Looks like the vote was unanimous. 5 to zero. Perfect. We'll move to approve the minute meeting meeting minutes for January 24th. I'll make a motion to approve January 24th, 2026.

I'll second that motion. Vote was also unanimous 5-0. Okay. Do we have any comments from citizens appearing for items not on the agenda tonight? And that would be in person or anyone online. Seeing none, we will move on to our new planning items that we're seeing tonight. Um, first item is planning file sup 000131 2025 special use permit child care at 515 flattops drive and we'll hear from Emry tonight.

All right. So, I'll be presenting on the special use permit and I will be sharing my screen. Okay. Um, so this item is a special use permit for a child care in the residential highdensity zoning district. And then so just to start out, uh, just a refresher on what special use permits are. Uh, again, code outlines a variety of land uses. And land uses can be a use by right or prohibited. And then in between you have what's called a special use permit. And so that's basically where on a case-byase basis, a planning and zoning commission would review a potential land use and either approve that use or deny it. And so in code, there's all sorts of different things that are special uses. And in this case, uh what we're considering tonight is a large child care center in the residential highdensity zoning district. And so you can see um child care centers, we have three different classes. So a large one is anything over 12 children and they're permitted by right use in some zoning districts but in in any of the residential zoning districts they're special use permit and so that's why we're here tonight with this application. Um so again there are six criteria that we look at for a special use permit. Um so they are here and they were listed in the staff report. And so the main point is just looking at it on a case- by case basis to make sure that it's compatible with the neighborhood and that any negative impacts are being um addressed. And so in this case, the applicant um it's at 515 Flattops View Drive. And so this is in the new Glenwood Meadows Apartments complex um above Glenwood Meadows. Uh this is in the residential zoning district. And again, it's part of that larger development. And the size of

the building is 4,600 square feet approximately. Um, so here is so this aerial photo, it shows uh the location of that child care center. And so these are all the residential buildings and then this building half of it is the clubhouse for the development. And then this other half is where the child care uh is proposed. Um so again, here's a zoning map of that area. So you can see all that area is that residential highdensity zoning district. Um you know if this use were located maybe across the street in this zoning district or that one that would have been a permitted by right use would not have we would not be here tonight. Um so again some background um the entire Glenwood Meadows project was approved as a major site and architectural plan and it was represented that this space would be a daycare in that original approval and the intent was always that the future operator would come back to planning and zoning commission to apply for that special use permit which that's what they're here doing tonight. And so again from the start that's what this place was uh intended for. Uh, so again, just a little information, about 4,600 square feet. You can see this is you have this parking area next to it. There's already a play area. This has already been built out. There's already a fence. Um, there's not any play equipment yet. Um, as they're here for that special use permit, but again, that's that's the layout of the space and where it is. and they would operate with a proposed capacity of 73 students and then also have a number of teachers as well which the applicant I'm sure can talk more about their operations if you have questions on that. Uh so part of our analysis too is um and this was from the start looking at the whole development is you know is there enough parking and so in total everything all the apartment buildings the clubhouse the daycare in total uh it requires 550 spaces across the whole development and they have 557 and so they do meet uh the required

parking for a daycare use. Uh, another thing that the applicant has provided is a uh some traffic assessment. And so again, with a daycare, you definitely have maybe that higher peak AM and PM hours, which is spread out depending on when children are picked up. Um, one thing to point out is that these volumes don't really trigger any intersection improvements. And then also given its location, there are two entrances to the development. So if there's any stacking or traffic, uh, it won't it's not going to come out and affect Wolson. So that's a benefit. And then also too, there's probably, you know, given, I'd imagine given the high density of residential units nearby, probably some people will be able to walk um their kids. Um uses a lot of times we'll have use specific standards. And so in the case of child care, uh before, for example, if the applicant comes back with a building permit, uh before a certificate of occupancy would be issued, we would request that they provide documentation that they have preliminary approval from the state. And so that's the idea that we would not permit a child care that hasn't approached the state yet. And then the second piece is just that they buffer play areas through use of fencing which already exists on the site. Um so again these are the criteria which as outlined in the staff report staff finds that it meets all the criteria. Um again it's compatible with the surrounding area. This was really the intent of the space from the beginning um with the original development approval for that residential development. And again, it minimizes um conflicts with the area and it is nice that it is in the front of the development and a little bit away from the residential buildings. Um so again, this was all in the staff report. Uh and then again, just a couple reviewing comments. Um you know, building department has already uh so the building is built out. It would require a tenant finish. Um so building department has inspected it, but there aren't you know, there's not drywall in that space. Um the applicant if approved their special use permit tonight will come back with a building permit and it

will get inspected um go through that whole process but tonight is kind of that first step in that whole process. Um there were number of letters of support included in the packet uh for public comment. Um so again there's really one action item for consideration tonight and that's the special use permit and staff recommends approval uh with the findings and conditions on pages eight and nine. And then again, if um there's some suggested conditions, if you feel like additional ones need to be added, you can include that in your motion. And then also, as always, if you have an alternative motion, you would need to uh make a motion to deny and then provide findings for each criteria uh as listed below. So, I'll stop sharing my screen. Okay,

any questions from the commissioners? for staff.

Oh, I do have one. You might as well ask. Um, so that area, the lighting like at just in that back general area is just absolutely horrible. And just I'm thinking, you know, when people are picking up or whatever, you know, during the winter months, four o'clock, it's really dark up there. It's dark on those those back type of roads. Is there going to be any sort of improvement to I mean I know we were talking about dark sky, but at the same time it's going to be a whole different ballgame with people coming and going.

Yeah. So in in code and the way that development was approved is there are minimum lighting amounts for a parking lot and so those are met. Uh now I imagine too and that could be a conversation that the applicant might have uh with with the property owner of maybe improving some of that lighting uh you know people are finding it too dark to navigate. So that wouldn't really be um a part of consideration of special use permit. There's not any lighting aspects of this special use permit. Um so that would be kind of outside the review process for this permit. But it'll meet the standards and the standards weighs all of that.

Correct. Okay. I have um couple questions. So, the traffic plan stated that it did not um assess traffic on Wolson because that was included in the original approval of Well, it it did. It's just that the volumes aren't enough to trigger an improvement that so they would have to be you'd have to have a very very large improvement that would result in traffic volumes far exceeding the existing one and that we're talking like okay you're going to put this huge development in you need to add a stoplight or a turn lane or a medium. Okay, so that's what I meant.

So okay, that makes sense. Um my question is those streets are just horrible and so I know that's not a part of this special use permit. I just am curious if we know when those streets are going to be repaired. Um I'm not sure what the schedulers are saying. I'm not sure exactly. Just know that people bring that up frequently. Yeah, I I agree. Yeah, sorry. Trent height with community development here, but um there it is uh in consideration for future years. I can't tell you exactly when.

Okay. So um and then the other question I had just regarding the traffic plan or the traffic assessment was does that assessment weigh all the um other development that's happening with RAFTA or is it just current current um current conditions to maybe take a step back. So when the original uh major site and architectural plan came in for the whole development, they did their traffic numbers just for the residential units. They didn't actually include the daycare and so that's why the applicant had to do this this time around. Okay.

So that those numbers are specifically for this size of a daycare in this location. So Okay. So the is the raft development included in that no study? No. The one well I mean there is a larger one for the entirety of Glenwood Meadows that has been done in the past. Um but again the one that was for this application is just specifically for the daycare. Okay.

Yeah. The original U BL development did uh contribute funds towards improvements at the West Wolfshin roundabout future construction. Um, RAFTA as well is is on the the hook for contributing funds to redevelop that as well. Um, but again, just the level of traffic associated with this specific daycare doesn't generate the volumes that would require a full-blown traffic impact analysis where we're analyzing adjacent intersections just because it it doesn't generally have the amount of volumes that would cause a significant impact to those.

Okay. And I think I was just kind of curious as to how they interacted because we have kind of this limbo land with Rafta being developed and Okay. But we're still way under that threshold it sounds like. Um I think that was all I had. Anything else? Nope. Okay. We'll hear from the applicant. Thank you, Emry. If you would state your names, please. Yep. I'm Dustin Robertson. And I'm Kelly Beal.

Um, we have been co-owners of Honey Tree Preschool in Elabel for the past six years. It's a large licensed child care center. Um, and with 112 children a day. Um, we're here tonight for the approval of the special use permit for the childcare use at the 515 Flattop View Drive in the Meadows development. If approved, our plan is to operate a fiveclassroom large licensed childcare center serving 72 children a day. Three of those five classrooms will be dedicated to infants through two and a ages two and a half because that is the biggest childcare gap we see in this area. Over the years, we've had many families commute from the Glenwood area to our current school specifically for infant and toddler care because options are so limited in this area. We consistently hear the same thing. Families can al often find preschool here in Glenwood, but they can't find care for under ages two and a half. So, this project is designed to directly address that unmet need. If approved, um, our commitment is to run a safe, well-managed center that fits the neighborhood, strong on-site leadership, clear operating policies, and full compliance with lic licensing, health, and safety requirements. We want to be a responsible long-term neighbor and a reliable resource for the working families here in Glenwood. And here to take any questions you have.

Any questions from commissioners? When would be your uh if you got your special use permit tonight, when would be the opening date or the the expected opening date? We're hoping August or September. We still have to apply for the building permit. We're waiting for our building docks. Um maybe the first or second week into uh March. Hopefully applying for that. It should be a quick um buildout, so like three months and then hopefully a month for moving in and training and everything. So, August, September, hopefully, fingers crossed,

maybe Monday through Friday, 7:30 to 5:30 for the families have to contribute um and we educate our teachers um so that they're lead certified. Yeah, we have strong working. Yeah, it we should create about 15 to 17 new jobs too in the area, which we have a lot of teachers that live down here, so they're excited to kind of cut down their community. Um, talk to us about pickup and drop off and how that's going to function. Parents pick up between or drop off between 7:30 and 9:30 every day. It's not like we have 112 at our um current location.

One in and out. It's Yeah, it doesn't ever get congested, right? Um and then parents pick up between I would say 3:30 to 5:30 depending on their work schedule. So, it never really Yeah, it's like one time drop off pick up. And then I read something um in the packet about you that you all have buses up in Elabel. Um they have a bus and a van so that we can take our kids out in the community and do field trips. That's a big part of it is not the kids hurt to be in the classroom all day. We really bring them down here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think we're good.

Very exciting. It is. We are. Okay. Do we want to entertain a motion? Public comment. Does anyone Does anyone uh want to comment on this?

Okay, seeing none, now we will entertain a motion. Okay. Um well I will move to approve planning file SP 0000 or 4062 2025 with the suggested findings and conditions outlined in the staff report. Um and the suggested findings 1 through six and suggested conditions 1 through seven. Sorry, point of order. Um I I just wanted to check and see which was the correct SU number. I noticed a different suggested motion was at the the top

two two different ways in two different places. Okay. I was wondering um on the report the staff report front page is the one I just read. It should be uh one 0000131 2025. Okay. So that was incorrect. So, I apologize. No, good catch. Good catch is well done, but I don't have that right in front of me. Uh 131 2020. Yeah,

131 2025. You're welcome. I'm guessing though, the suggested findings 1 through six and suggested conditions 1 through 7 um haven't changed. you do we have a second I'll second the motion sure and any discussion

I think it's a great thing it's a high need and uh it was a really well um I really like the pro project description and so it was really easy for us to kind of sift through and um you know just understanding all the different criteria and I'm excited for um uh Honey Tree, I guess. Is that what this called? Yeah.

Okay. I'd just like to echo the same thing. I I know personal friends who have had been on weight lists for years and um so I really appreciate I know it's a really hard industry to retain staff and to and it's just hard work. So I really appreciate you all um endeavoring to do this. And yes, the packet that you presented was thorough and um appreciated the the comments as well. So well done. Okay. Um we'll call the question. Voting passed unanimously. Five to one. Five to zero. Thank you. Good luck.

Yep. Okay, we are moving on to planning file ARC 000130 2025, minor site and architectural plan and design variances for 210 8th Street. And um I need to recuse myself because a coworker expressed a letter of an opinion about the project.

Get out of here. Bye guys. Thank you. Enjoy your coach.

Okay, where were we? So, um, now we're moving on to, um, planning and zoning commission, uh, file number ARC 00001 30 2025 and variance or V 000019 2026 and um, hit it.

All right. So, I'll be presenting on this and I'll be sharing my screen. Um so for tonight uh essentially it's there are two things that planning and zoning commission will be looking at. Uh the first one is the minor site and architectural plan and for that one uh we're looking you're going to be making a recommendation. So that part of the application is go going to go on to city council for that final for a final approval. Um and then the second piece is with this design of this proposed mixeduse building. Uh there are some design variances. Now, for those items, uh, planning and zoning commission is going to be the deciding body. And so, that part of the application would not go on to city council. So, that is where you're going to be making that final decision on those items. Okay. Um, so just a little bit again, uh, we have two items. It's for a mixeduse building about 30,000 square feet with 24 residential units and then two ground floor commercial spaces. Um the applicant is Whipple Development uh LLC and so they're here and they'll do a presentation after me if you have any questions for them. Uh again, property is 7,500 square feet and it's in the downtown. Uh so it's just that vacant lot right over here. And so again, uh action item number one will be the minor site and architectural plan. And so staff is recommending a recommendation for approval uh with the findings and conditions in the staff report. And so again, your options for that tonight are recommend the approval, recommend approval with additional conditions, recommend denial or continue the item to another meeting. And then the second item and I will note uh so with the design variances uh they are listed individually in the staff report. And so the idea is is if planning and zoning commission feels that they want to make a motion on each individual one, you can certainly do that. Um or you can also just as action item two consider them all together. Uh in any case, staff has recommended the approval of all of

them. And so here, action item two, considering the design variances, there is a recommendation for approval. And so again, getting into it, it's this parcel right here, uh 210th Street. So it's currently a surface parking lot. Um previously, before that surface parking lot was there, it also used to be a bank and that was demolished, uh to make the parking lot around 2000. And so again, it's located in the M2 mixed use district, uh, which is pretty much most of downtown. Then you can see as you go out, you get into some of the other zoning districts. Uh, one unique thing about this property is there are some, uh, other uh, geographic areas that we look at. And so it's located within um, the blue is what's called the downtown core. And so some of the design variances relate to that is that there's some specific uh design standards for when you're in that area. Uh the yellow area is what's called the general improvement district which is actually a taxing district uh which has some implications as far as parking requirements. And then the white area is what's called the downtown commercial overlay district. And so purpose of that and the regulations that go along with it are to encourage retail on the ground floor which uh is what this project is proposing. So again, just some more photos of the site um from different perspectives. Um so again, project summary. So this is a rendering of what the building would look like. Uh again, there's two retail spaces and then it's a combination of one and twobedroom units. Um varying locations in the building and kind of a varying size for those residential units. So again, ground floor residential, excuse me, ground floor retail, uh residential on the next three stories, and then there's also a basement level that has storage both for the residents and for the retail businesses. And so again, with the minor site and architectural plan, we're working with four criteria, which essentially is that it's consistent with

purpose and intent of code, meets code, uh it's consistent with any previous land approvals, which don't apply to this application, and then also that it's consistent with the comprehensive plan. And so again, uh, the M2 zoning district, uh, one thing about this zoning district is it does not have any setbacks. And so you can build right up to the lot line, which when you look at a lot of downtown buildings, traditional buildings, they are right up to the sidewalk. And so just like you can see here, Citizens Bank building, and then the Barnes Hawk building on the corner, that's right up to the sidewalk. And so this building proposes the same. It would be right up to that property line. That doesn't mean you have to build up to it. It's just you can't. Uh, and again, same thing goes for the side and rear of the property. And then also too, being in the M2 zoning district, there's actually no requirements for landscaped area. Again, kind of reflecting that downtown, more urban um, building pattern. Um, another aspect too is with any zoning district, you do have building heights. And so in this zoning district, the building height is 40T uh to the roof. And so you see this parapet wall that can actually extend an additional 30 in. And so all the building heights are within that along parapet wall. And then same thing goes for they do have an elevator tower on the roof that goes an additional six feet beyond that 40T which is again allowed. You can have that up to 10 feet. That's those are exceptions in code for different things building elements that might crack that limit. Um so that's all within code. Uh another thing too is uh we have community housing standards. So any project with 10 or more units has to provide uh deed restricted units and for this development because it's a four rent uh that's 20% of the total units and so they would have to have five and we do have two categories. We have one which is called resident occupancy or RO and then another one which is your affordable. Uh these can be the same units. Um they don't have to be a lot of

times they are. And basically the way to think about it this is a little bit of a simplification. RO units are they have to be rented to someone who is part of the local workforce. So lives in Glenwood, works for a Glenwood company. Um that's more or less what those units are required to be. And then the affordable ones, uh that's where you have that rent limit. And so um your average rent cannot exceed 100% of local AMI and these numbers are from 2025. Um and then again, the maximum rent cannot exceed 120. And so there is some room if you have five units to figure out what rents they are to meet these. Um but again that is required as part of this project that five of them uh will be deedestricted. Uh and so again I touched on this earlier uh properties within the G are exempt from prov providing off street parking. Um so again they don't have to provide it onsite. Uh the applicant um similar to they also developed at 716 Cooper. Um, so they have looked at the downtown and are engaging with some neighboring property owners to look for parking solutions for their renters. But again, as far as requirement, it's not uh required. And so that's everything as it pertains to the minor site plan. Um, and I'll come back to the comprehensive plan and how it aligns with that, but this is more of an overview in addition to what was provided in the staff report showing how it does meet code. Um, so on to the design variances. And so we've uh talked about, you know, we have variances and then we also have design variances. And so they have different criteria and that's on purpose. Um a design variance is for sections uh specifically residential design standards and non-residential design standards. And the idea is that it's a little more flexible. And so with a variance, we have seven criteria. You have to meet all seven. With a design variance, they get split up into two sections where you have to meet all three of section A. And then with section B, you need four out

of the six. So there's a little more flexibility with these uh with the intent that it is for um design things that maybe could be a little more subjective than a setback or a building height that's more of a dimensional requirement. Um so I'll go through there's six of them. Um so I'll just kind of go through each one just with some examples from the elevation. And so the first one, design variance one, it's horizontal and vertical articulation every 30 feet. And so basically every 30 feet you need to have at least three of these features and so you can pick. Um now the thing is is some of these features are very specific. And so for example the two that pertain actually let's go to the next slide that really pertain to this building's design are glazing and roof line change. And so you can see I've split up the building in 30 feet sections. Every section of that building for example has a glazing. Um, however, if you want to count glazing as a feature, it has to be 30% of the whole elevation. And so, again, it has it, but just not to that numeric standard as code requires. Same thing goes for roof line height. You can see the roof line, there's definite changes in this roof line, um, but code requires that it be two feet in change for every 30 foot section. And so, this is an example of where um, building it's meeting the intent of that code, just not to the letter. Um, so staff has found uh recommendation for approval on all these with the general sense that it has these features. It just isn't quite meeting the exact standard. Um, so again, so that's what this one talks about you. So you can see um all these are just a little short on meeting those three. Um, same thing goes for so this would be facing uh west and so you can see on one section of this elevation it does meet it. has a projection change in the wall plane. It has an awning and then it also has a change in texture masonry. So that for this part right here, no variance

required, but then the rest of these, it doesn't quite meet having all three in the way that code uh describes. So that's that first variance. Same thing goes for the rear side of the building. Um so again, the elements are present and the front side meets it. No variance required for that. It has more than enough. So that's that first one. Um so moving on again. So this was a staff recommendation finding all three for the first section and then five out of the six for section B. Um so the second one um this is very specific to having a certain amount of glazing on a side of the building that faces a public rightway. Now the alley because it's public and because it's a rightaway, the alley side of the building is held to this requirement to have 30% of the whole elevation be glazing. And so I highlighted all the air window areas and you can see it's 12%. So that's what 12% looks like. Now if we go to the front side of the building, this is at 31%. So this side of the building, no variance is required for that feature. So again, you know, 12% versus 31%. And this requirement is again if this were not on an alley, this requirement would wouldn't uh be there. So that's the second design variance is specifically for the alley side of the building uh allowing glazing less than 30%. On to the third one and so again staff finding recommendation for approval all three from A five out of six for B. Um the third variance is for roof line changes and this can be either like vertically. So you know as you can see the build the roof line jogs down but it can also be for if the horizontal plane changes and so if you have a projection or recession. So on the rear side of the building you know that's recessed in. So that that part this little um section or excuse me larger section because this is

50 feet this one not a variance is not required but then for the rest of them uh is because even though the roof line does change it doesn't change two feet it's about uh six inches on each each little jog down and so that's what this variance is for. And you'll see similar things on the other side of the building. Um, again, the front meets it because of the recessed wall and the change in roof line there on the horizontal plane, but then the rest of the building it doesn't meet it. Uh, and same thing goes for the front and then the rear meets it because of those recessions. And then I would like to just point out uh the applicant um had included this little arch piece. This is not going to be on the building because that would require actually a special use permit for going above the height limit. And so that little piece right there um is not being considered. So even even with it, it wouldn't meet um the roof line chain.

What's what's the height of that then? Uh this is that arch piece from the parapet. It's like another two and a half feet.

So that will not be there. And again for the roof line change um staff recommending approval. Again, you have to have all three in A. And then section B is a little more flexible. We have five out of six. Um, now the next three variances, I should have said this at the start, the next three variances are specific to the downtown design standards. So, the first three are for that's regardless of any building in town. Those regulations hold true. These next three are just very specific to the downtown. Um, so this one's pretty straightforward. It is just your first floor facade. It needs to be between 65 and 80% glass. So, this is 61% glass. Um, now granted, the applicant could get to 65, but that would probably involve uh going into this kick plate area. So, kick plate is traditionally what you see beneath the window can be metal, usually stone. Um, which is also that's also the required architectural feature in the downtown. Um, so extending more glass would probably eat into that and probably create some safety concerns with shoveling, plowing. Um so again still staff is finding a recommendation for approval on this one as well um with similar uh criteria. Um the fifth one so this is about uh talks about vertical articulation in splitting a building up into what is considered a traditional facade width which is specifically in code 25 ft. And so the way it would look on this building is this is 25 feet in and there would be some form of vertical articulation from going all the way up to the top. And so on the neighboring Citizens Bank building, this is what that would look like. Now again, what code asks for is that it be 2 feet deep and 1 ft wide. And so this over here in the Citizens Bank building, just looking at it, it's probably not um two feet deep uh or it's probably more than one foot wide, but that's what it would look

like. And so that is um per code you'd like have a brick course going down right down the middle. And the idea is that um really the intent of this is to prevent a really large building coming into the downtown without you know as you're walking along the street not having that sense of oh here's a store here's another uh business here's another one. Um which the building actually does on the first floor is these are three different bays. So at the pedestrian level it's definitely broken up. This specific requirement is just request having it be carried all the way to the top in that specific two feet deep, one foot wide. So even if the applicant had provided like a brick course that was uh let's say one foot out, that wouldn't have met the requirement. So it's very specific. Um and again, so staff is finding recommendation for approval on this one as well, meeting all three of A and then four out of six on B. Uh and then finally, last one. Um this is uh this standard is about stepping a building back with the idea that a building mass shall be stepped back from a street or adjacent residential zone to reduce a looming effect. Um so what that would look like and I'll bring up the code reference here but it refers to the basically that top floor of the building. Um now one thing to point out is so this is what these are some examples in the downtown of where okay on this building this area has been stepped back um and recessed uh building has been brought down here brought down here kind of cut up along the roof line. Um here's another example on on the western where it was stepped back. Um this was the original building. This was kind of a newer addition. Um so you had a little bit of a mix here and keeping the old adding new. Um, one thing to point out though is that uh the stepback code doesn't actually give a specific quantity. It doesn't say how far the building should be stepped back. It asks that it be varied to avoid a monotonous appearance. Um, but it doesn't say whether that step back needs to be 2

feet, 10 feet, 12 feet. Um, but it also asks too, and this is again a downtown design standard, uh, that the setback orientation and heights be similar to those found in the block face. And so it talks a lot about context and how it relates to the rest of the block. Well, when you look at this block, you have a very large, pretty boxy building. It's got a lot of, you know, architectural features, but form-wise, that's a block. Um, and similarly, this building, you know, it has parapets. This mixes up the roof line, but it's also it's pretty it's pretty block-like. So, going with that context, then even if you carry it down here to Colorado Mountain College building, that's a similar you see this form repeated. And then same thing if you look the other way you have the Citizens Bank building, Barnes Hawk building, a smaller one-story building, uh the county building, and then likewise across the street. And so really the idea that this isn't step back, it really is in with context of the rest of the neighborhood. And then also another thing actually I like this vantage better. Uh this building is about 46 feet to the top. Um this one is about 30 27. And then so this building is going to be um you know you're going to basically be stepping down as you go away from grant. So as far as fitting with the rest of the block um staff finds that it does meet the intent of this and again to point out that there's really no specific quantitative well how much should the step back be. You know if they just bumped it back two feet technically it would meet it. Would it really achieve much? Um I don't think so. Um so again staff finds it meets all three of A and then four out of six for B. So we have a recommendation for approval. And so again that's all the design variance conversation. Um now to come back to consistency with the comprehensive plan and this would be for the minor site um consideration. This isn't the downtown um a mixeduse building fits in with uh the future land use map and what is

being um considered in the future for downtown. It fits in uh there's a variety of goals that this project meets which I would just summarize that it's it's infill development. It's mixed use. Uh it has retail on the first floor and then it's also close to transit and so it meets a lot of goals from the comprehensive plan. Uh and then again as far as public notice so letters were mailed to all the neighboring property owners within 300 ft uh posted sign and then two published notices in the post independent. And so that's standard anything that you hear uh for a land use application that's what's completed. And then the applicant also uh and this was not a requirement, they also conducted a neighborhood meeting at the Glenwood Springs Library on February 20th. Um so again, just to invite members of the neighborhood um to ask questions of the developer and so that that was also done. And then also um even though this is a new building uh the applicant did meet with the historic preservation commission um just basically kind of a courtesy review and conversation um just to talk about how it fits in with the rest of the downtown. So kind of a focus on a lot of that downtown design standard is focused on uh making sure that buildings fit and are compatible with neighboring buildings. And so that was a conversation with historic preservation commission. And then the applicant also met with the downtown development authority. And so that's um a separate body that basically deals with the downtown. Um so again they had some outreach with both of those groups in addition to all the public notice. Um in total one public comment was received and was included in the packet. Uh so again so we have two action items. First being the minor site and architectural plan which planning and zoning commission is making a recommendation for council. And then the design variances is the second item which again uh both of these items are being recommended for approval. And then uh as always again if you make an alternate motion you do need to uh make a motion and then provide findings um

for each one of the criteria. Same thing goes for the design variance. Um and then just remember it needs to meet all three the first three and then four through nine you need to get four out of six. So that will conclude my presentation. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. That that was a lot. So uh does the applicant want to come up and Yeah. Sorry. Does anyone have any questions for staff? Emory, how is is grade measured to existing, finished, most restrictive? Uh, finished.

And I guess I have a question then. So, do we have um comments what the downtown development authority said?

Uh, I didn't include them in the packet. Um, let's go back to that. They had a they just had some questions. They asked about like where trash would go, which um there's a trash dumpster inside the building and that's off the alley. Uh they were curious about the construction methods, which I think the applicant could talk a little more about just like how are you actually going to build it just being tight downtown. Um and then they just did they did ask about um if the applicant was considering making the buildings into condominiums um which generally uh when those buildings are built a lot of the stuff that the way they build it, you can do it later. Um but that's not a requirement um of any sort. Um also just tight parking traffic uh general questions also about the retail spaces if they the downtown development authority really looks at you know having a vibrant downtown. So they're just curious about if there's any exact proposed uses for the retail spaces. So

okay anyone else? Yeah, I have some questions about um the wise of some of the design variances. Like for example, why do you need glazing on the alley for 30%. Like I don't understand what the purpose of that is and is it okay if it's only 12? Because that seems like less than half. Sure. And that's I'll go to that one. Uh and so that is Yes, absolutely. And that's why screening. Oh, sorry. That's a good question.

Yeah. And and while Emry is getting that, I can just fill in a little bit. You know, the code did not specify what a public ride ofway was. So the the alley is a public rideway. Um so just to be safe, we wanted to make sure that if there was a design variance that was applicable to that that they requested it. I think what you'll see is that that alley side of that building provides a lot more um architectural detail and and changes um than any other you know facade that's adjacent to an alley in the downtown area. So basically an alley is a public rightway there. Therefore when I was reviewing this I found that well to meet this part of code you'd have to have 30% glazing. So that's what required the variance.

So can you explain more what glazing is and why we have to have 30% of the building on the rightway to have 30 glazing any any glass which could be a window or a door. And I I think probably a better way to illustrate it is on the front of the building. Um you know if you have a a building face that has maybe let's say one window on the third story and there's a door without any window that's not a very welcoming building you know. So, if you have a downtown area, you want to have windows. Okay, is that a retail space? What's there? What's what do they have for sale? It's a business. You can see people working. And so, really, a lot of that is about um you know, vibrancy. And then also, if you're a user of the building too, windows, you know, add to the experience.

Well, then that leads me to this one too, which it was supposed to be 65 to 80%. Is that just on that main level? Oh, back to the front. Was that just on the main level or the whole thing is supposed to be 65 to 80%. Correct. So it would just it's this just just the first floor of the primary thought. So how is that more not that looks like almost 100%. How is that not 65%. Where where are we losing

uh the kicks are like the kick plate for example that runs the full length of the building and then is probably like two feet high you know in between the windows. Um, also, you know, not the entire door is glass. And then you have this section right here, uh, all above the windows. So, 80% glass would be a lot of glass. So, is 65. Yeah. Any other questions? I have a few, but somebody else. Nope. Go ahead.

Is there any parking requirements for a building like this one downtown? Uh so since it's in uh here I'll go back to the map. Um since it's within the general improvement district uh no where are these people going to park? Um so there's I mean on street parking is available and then also there's the parking ramp and then there's off- streetet public parking spaces and public um lots and then also the applicant I'll let the applicant talk more. They're also working with uh private property owners to get leases for their tenants. Isn't the parking downtown two hours max? Uh, it depends on where you are, but generally yes.

And then are we going to start requiring pay for parking soon, too? That would definitely be a larger conversation that I think council is looking at. Yeah. So, I don't know where. Yeah. So one thing also too I think is worth to point out is you know when you live somewhere like your car is there when you're sleeping you wake up you go to work that car is no longer you know maybe in front of your building it's at your workplace and then you come home you know parking it is a static thing and then because you have that two-hour limit if you left your car out all day you're going to get tickets that's assuming that you work a day shift job Monday through Friday people work night shifts some people work from home

so that even adds to the variety of when those cars are leaving when they're staying where they are. So, but again, so that's that's with the G and that's that all this yellow area and then with the um historic preserv P preservation commission. And I know you guys they didn't have to meet with them, but they did have some good questions that hopefully with the we can ask the applicant or maybe you guys will talk a little bit more about some of the materials and things like that.

Yeah, they had just questions of like how materials were selected, why'd you pick them, um questions about the cornice that runs along the entirety of the building. Um so yeah. Hi.

Um, well, I had similar questions about some of the other design design variances. Are these all just for aesthetic purposes? And um, if we have them, then why are we It just feels like we're we're giving six different variances for six different design. Do we need to change our code and our design code if it's, you know, that's okay that there's no step backs because nobody else has step backs and that's okay that it's only 6 in roof line change because nobody else has 6 in roof line changes. Is that something that needs to be reviewed?

I can answer that. I I think it's definitely worthy of consideration. Um, what we're dealing with with this specific building is that we have both nonresidential design standards as well as downtown design standards that are applicable to this building. I think when you um go outside of the central core of the city, you see a lot more variation in building design. Um, and and it certainly is something maybe we want to consider for downtown buildings. um not applicable to this application of course but it in my experience it's not uncommon for design variances to be associated with new buildings downtown in my tenure with the city

and I think too to add on um so code we had a new code in 2018 and not that many new buildings have been built in downtown and sometimes it's hard to understand like when you have a code what that actually produces and so like when you run something through designer view and I just bring this one up because I I found it interesting like when I was reviewing it, it's like, oh, okay, it's asking for this vertical articulation and then it's really specific about that dimension and then when you go around downtown, you like you see that vertical articulation on all these old historic buildings, you know, but it's all varying. So, yeah, that's a great question on some of this stuff when I was running through it, you know, I came up with these six design variances and then actually there was a couple other too that the applicant on the original design, they revised things a little bit to get rid of. So there were quite a few things were like actually running through this design. I was like, "Oh, like this is an interesting thing." You know, but again, until we actually have these buildings built, sometimes you don't know what that's going to look like.

And that's because this is it's the first time we've had a mixeduse like this in a while, wouldn't you say? Yeah. A brand a totally brand new because we've had other buildings built in that area, but they been just a business or something like that. Is that accurate? I would say since 2018, there's only like one or two like absolutely brand new buildings. One being A&B Bank. I was thinking the bank. Yeah. Can't remember what process I went through, but

you know, the the only other I guess semi um large, you know, redevelopment downtown was actually um the current applicant and their their building over on Cooper. Um, and and what I can say about the step back on their building is that it actually served a completely separate purpose in that when you have a historic building, when you add additions to those buildings, you want to step those back from the historic facade so that they're secondary to the historic structure that's there. So, in their instance, it was encouraged by um, you know, historic preservation commission and staff for that very reason. Yeah, I mean I definitely would agree with Commissioner Gin that having all these variances can be very confusing when you're looking at it and just like, oh, it's 6 in out of code, so we need to create a variance because the variance does make sense. So, um, yeah, I think it would be great if you know you guys ex I mean, I know there's not going to be many buildings like this. I mean that's the one thing

and I would say again just to reiterate that's where staff found the recommendation for approval is that in all these they're really getting to the intent of that regulation right um and providing really the benefits of that design you know what the design standard is asking for to have a varied roof line to have different materials um just not again meeting some of these very specific standards. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? I had one other question. Sure. Is if there's a fire are there I don't see any way to how are people gonna There's no balconies. There's no uh so the building would be sprinklered. So it would have to meet fire code.

Yeah. But without leaving. And then also too there's uh also egress within the building. So there's two sets of stairways. So the idea is you have a sprinkler building. If there's a fire, boom, all the sprinklers go on, slow down the rate of the fire, and then there's two stairwells which you could exit as opposed to just like if there was one stairwell. Um, or if the building wasn't sprinklered at all, uh, then you have less time. So, you won't Yeah. Like, you know, when you go to bigger cities and you see like all the old fire escapes and everything, you know, though, all those were built before we had sprinkler systems. So, I don't know. Like, if I was on the third floor, I'd want to have a parachute. Maybe it's

enough for towering inferno. I'm no not worried. OJ, but no balconies. Correct. No questions. Okay. All right. Everybody good? Ready to move on to the applicant? We're excited. There's renditions. Let's see. Yeah. Yeah, you could do this. And if you could just state your name and where you're from.

Yeah.

Yeah. I get that. Power up.

It's on. Impressive job by staff. They have to all agree with that. It's pretty amazing. Um I hope this isn't too repetitive because he has done such a great job Emmery and and Trent summarizing this. Just hit this I think. Sorry.

There'll be a survey at the end of this. get back to the actual Hi guys. Oh, wait. I got it. Sorry. Technical difficulties. Good evening, Chairwoman Conor. Uhhuh. Hi. Can you say Can you say your name?

I'm getting that. And members of the board. My name is Ralph Whipple. I go by Chip. Um, I'm principal of Whipple Development. Joining me here is my daughter Candace. Um, my wife Lynn and our architect of record, Kurt Kuth, Hinge Architects, and also on line here is my son, Alex, who's the uh, construct be will be the construction manager of the project. and uh Stephen Hopkins who is our uh designer. So um let's see here. Uh what? All right. So before getting to the details of our application, I I really just want to take one moment to acknowledge Emory Ellington or Ellensson and Trent Hyatt with Community Development for their help and cooperation throughout this portion of the application process. Their professionalism and friendly demeanor have truly made working with the department a big pleasure. The the city's very lucky to have these two gentlemen as part of their team. Um our objective with this project has always been to deliver a welldesigned building that complements the city while providing much needed housing and active groundf flooror retail space that supports the downtown corridor. We share the city's goals for attractive architecture, pedest pedestrian vitality, and long-term community value. We've made substantial efforts to conform to the quality design standards.

This shows the perimeter of the uh there it is of the lot. The site is centrally located in downtown Glenwood Springs, surrounded by existing commercial, residential, and civic uses. It benefits from immediate access to public parking, walkable streets, nearby retail activity. It's also served by public transportation, reducing reliance on the automobile. The property has strong connections to the river corridor and downtown amenities and it sits entirely within the M2 district where mixeduse development and urban de density are not only appropriate but encouraged. Architecturally the building presents a thoughtfully modern interpretation of the traditional character of Lenwood Springs. The design incorporates a refined material palette of brick, limestone, stucco, and metal accents, resulting in a facade that is both contemporary and contextually appropriate for the downtown core. The ground floor retail activates the street and supports a vibrant downtown environment. This project will provide meaningful benefits to the Glenwood Springs community, most notably through the addition of 24 new apartment units, offering a balanced mix of one and two-bedroom layouts. The development also includes two streetfront retail spaces along 8th Street, each with separate entrances and expansive glass storefronts designed to foster an active pedestrianoriented streetscape. The project will substantially upgrade the underutilized vacant property with a

four-story mixeduse building, significantly increasing assessed value. Importantly, this building supports economic vitality and housing needs while generating a net fixed positive for the city of Glenwood Springs through increasing taxable value and ongoing retail sales tax revenue. Now to give you an idea of the uh actual layout itself on the street level there are two retail spaces of approximately 2200 and 2500 square ft each with a private office, a restroom, a and we have a dedicated residential lobby uh with a secure mail room for tenants, a property management office, a fullervice laundry room, trash area for all household garbage and recyclables, a transportation garage designed for 20 or more ebikes, ecooters, bicycles, along with electric charging stations. Um there are two stairwells plus a fully accessible passenger elevator. On the lower level, we've got the basement um or tenant storage area for each retail store, plus private storage unit for each uh apartment resident. On floors two, three, and four, which are our residential floors, we have five bedroomedroom and oneb apartments ranging from 532 ft to 643 square ft. Three two-bedroom and one bath apartments ranging from 804 to 912 square ft. In accordance with city requirements, five of the units, two two-bedroom and three one-bedroom

will be rent restricted. The building will also feature 88 compliant apartments. This uh the picture here is a representation of one of the bed onebedrooms. And this is another rendering for the two-bedroom units. I think Candace will hopefully explain the parking situation that has come up

for this project. We took a close look at parking and traffic to ensure it fits appropriately within the downtown context. The development is located in the core of the Glenwood Springs area where walkability, access to services, and transit naturally reduce reliance on personal vehicles. From a parking standpoint, we're intentionally using existing downtown resources. We've secured 10 off- streetet parking spaces for residents nearby, and the city and CMC parking garage is within walking distance with free overnight availability. There are also also multiple public parking lots and on street spaces close to the site along with bike storage and ebike charging to support alternative transportation. datab using a conservative downtown planning assumption of about 3/4 of a vehicle per household based on the site's downtown location, mixeduse nature, raft to access, bike infrastructure, and our operating experience at our recently completed project, the Western 24 units translates to roughly 18 vehicles total. That demand is easily supported by the secured off-site spaces and a large supply of existing public parking in the immediate area. To put that in context, there are 400 to 450 available public parking spaces nearby. So, this project represents only a small fraction of the existing capacity. On the traffic side, a study by Apex Consulting Engineers using IT standards shows the project will generate about 201 trips per day and roughly 15 trips during peak hours. When distributed across the downtown street

network, the impact is minimal and no roadway or intersection improvements are required. Overall, this is a low impact project that aligns with the city's goals for walkable, efficient downtown and make smart use of parking and infrastructure that already exists. So, we respectfully request your approval of this design in our application as submitted. We believe this project substantially meets the intent and standards of the M2 mixeduse district, enhances the downtown core, and will contribute new housing, and commercial vitality to Glenwood Springs. We have made every reasonable effort to comply with the city's design requirements while balancing constructibility, durability, energy performance, and long-term urban quality. Thank you for your time and consideration. Well, thank you very much. Okay, we'll bring it back to commissioners for questions for the applicant

or Yes. Right. Yeah. Okay. Connie, do you have questions? Sorry, Commissioner G. Not right now. I'll shoot. Is the CMU on the west elevation? Is that just to achieve the fire rating and where it's effectively? We have a 4hour requirement and line. The only way to achieve four hours is with CMU block. That's because both buildings are built to the lot line or would be built to the lot line essentially.

Well, the uh Hark Barnes building is about a foot and a half off the property line and ours will be five feet off the property line. So, there's a six and a half foot minimum distance between the buildings. They look excuse me looks closer with the rendering. Chip. Yes. Go ahead, Steve. Uh, up at the 8th Street end there's 1 foot n between the two buildings, not 6 feet. The six feet is once you get 57 ft back. That's where we step step the building back. So, at the front of 8th Street, they're almost touching. Yeah.

But essentially that that CMU is is It'll be completely hidden by the neighbors building. Right. Thank you. So, is that front of that building um I noticed like the doors are set back. Is that an awning? Is that what you would step under? Yes. For element protection, you know, rain, snow. Plus, we also have the awning at the entrance to the residential lobby that projects over the sidewalk. Okay. So, we have to get a special was it special use permit for that? Encroachment

permit for that. So, there's going to be two entrances into this building. This is the front and then there's going to be another one in the back. Two in the back. Two in the back. Yes. Okay. And the back. How far does that go? All the way over to the other street. Do you have any pictures of the back? No, no, it goes to the back of our lot. So, it's 150 ft. Okay. It goes to the parking lot of the uh southern property from that. Okay. Okay. If I could if I could interject there.

Yes. primarily the the back entrance or exit is for deliveries to the uh retail properties and also for fire exiting requirements. We have a series of sidewalks and ramps around the back side of the building to allow people to escape fires as you were concerned about. We actually have three exits off the back side plus three exits out the front side. So it it is a very safe building. Meets all fire codes. Can you clarify? Is the back for deliveries or is the back for the entrance for the tenant for both?

There's dual use. Tenants can come in through the back if they choose, particularly if they use the the bicycle parking area, then they may want to come in through the back door. But um you know, it's it's not for the retail spaces. The retail spaces are obviously on the Eighth Street side. Um, but they can take deliveries through the back so delivery trucks don't have to park on ETH Street to make their deliveries.

I think it also works really well for the residents when they're loading and unloading because you can park in the alley next to the building. The door is right there around the back. So, there's good access for moving or just whatever else they would need. Grocery delivery. Yes. How how wide is that alley? 14 and 1/2 ft.

I don't know if you caught that. It's 14 and 1/2 ft wide. Got it. Thank you. Now, is that retail space? Is that going to be strictly hard goods or is that like restaurant consideration or

We've tossed this around a lot and the city actually has a list of recommended or preferred retail clients. Uh what we're thinking is to perhaps some have some type of a coffee shop in there for one of the units which would be a great amenity for the city but also for the tenants. You kind of picture a Starbucks type setting where they could come down and have a just another meeting place other than their own apartments.

So when you say the city has a list, do you mean just the food and beverage, retail, indoor wreck? Is is that what you're talking about? Okay. We we don't know. We haven't really picked out the second one either. Oh, yeah. As far as restaurants go, no, because we don't want that type of activity after five o'clock where you would have noise and perhaps odors from a restaurant that could interfere with the with the tenants. Okay, that was my qu that was where I was trying to go. Yeah. uh without leading you. Um do you have any other questions? You have any questions?

I'm kind of curious with your parking assessment that you did. You mentioned that you use the Western property to come up with that number. How many units and uh residents do you have at the Western and what is the car total or like the ratio there? We have 11 units at that residence and I think it's um No, I think it's Yeah, there are five or six cars that we have in that building. Oh, no. You have 11 and five cars. Wait, 11 units in the Weston.

11 units. Yeah, there's studio and one bedrooms over there. And this will be 24 bedrooms. and one and two bedroom. One and two bedrooms. All right. Yeah, we were actually quite surprised at the Western not knowing how it was going to play out with the parking and not providing for parking there. And we were pleasantly surprised that so many of the tenants live within a twob block area, two and three work for work, sorry. And they don't have cars. They don't need cars. They don't want cars. And I guess the ones that do have cars have found uh spots that Yeah. No problem with spots. Yeah.

So when you say you had 11 spots that you identified Oh, the 10 um hacking spots. So that's through Maxwell Anderson. They're going to lease us spots. Okay. And then for this unit, I think you mentioned that you Sorry, we don't have spots leased for the Western. That's all street, but we will for this next project. For this one? Yes. Okay. Because the parking lot behind this building is private. Yes. Correct. And so that could be an area of pinch is what I'm guessing if I was to live there. We do have same with the western. There's a parking lot behind it

and don't seem to be an issue. like you I mean I iterate to our tenants that that's you can't park there. They obviously can get ticketed. And so when this came back the one thing that I see is the alley and is this a one-way alley? Can someone It is not. We can talk about that. I don't think it's restricted. No, there's no oneway sign on. I wonder if we talk about after. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say there are almost no oneway alleys in the downtown core and it all sorts itself. Feels like it

narrow. Um well, I'm just thinking because if you're going to pull out of here, you're pulling out like I mean, you know, if if we were leaving here, it's like even just coming here for the meeting tonight at 5:30. It's busy. This is a very very busy area. it's backed up here. I think pulling out of that alley is going to be very restrictive. I mean,

it's time to hit it because two years ago during a preliminary architectural meeting with the city, we had actually drawn up a building that had parking and we were we were shot down to say you cannot provide parking even if you wanted to because they're so concerned with the egress and ingress off of ETH, especially during rush hours and also on 9th. Uh, can I ask another question? Yeah. So, I know you guys have that arch, which I actually really like the arch, but I know you have to know you have to cut the arch out.

Um, because it's not really a variance specifically, but did somebody mention there's going to be some sort of rec center upstairs or something or No. Okay. I was like, what's happening on the roof of that thing? But we'd like to fight for that arch also. I think that's a good look. Is that building Is it the same height as the building next door? No, it's lower than the one to the left, right? City Bank. Okay. It's just an optical illusion. It's hard to match those perspectives, ma'am. It's really tough.

And so I see two balconies or some sort of fire escapey type of things in the other building. Is that some sort of is that going to be an issue? in the building of your building. I Well, it's a fire escape. Is that what that is? Is a fire escape. So, it's not used as a balcony or anything. Oh, okay. So, we don't anticipate a problem with that. I obviously don't go down that alley very often. So, nobody does.

Well, actually, I'll take that back. I go sit down and have some from the taco truck, but anyway. Okay. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay. And then I guess I have a couple more questions. Sorry. So, the front is going to be I see. Is that steel? Is that what that's going to be? The uh the storefront on the on the first It's actually going to be aluminum so it doesn't degrade over time. Okay. And the rest is brick, right? Yes. Yes. And there's sandstone bands

at the top and at the the kick plate. Yep. So, it's all in concert with the Glenwood vernacular, right? But Emmery brought up a good point and the reason we missed the required glazing by a fraction was because of these kick plates and in the winter with Glenwood the way it is in the snow removal. If the glass were any lower, there's a good chance it could be broken. and having a little bit of a buffer there with that kick plate um gave us the the reason for not having the 2% difference or whatever it was. So, are those windows along that alley? Yeah.

Is that what 12% 12%? Yeah. Okay. And then on the other side where the buildings almost are abuting each other, are there windows on that side, too? or windows because the building does uh set in uh after the uh adjacent Hayok building ends and also actually before it ends. So those um Yeah. So we have windows on on all four sides. Okay. Can you show this Colorado side view again? Yeah. That was the one. Oh, yeah.

There you go. Lots of windows on that side, too. Okay.

Okay. What's the um what's the timeline of how long it's going to be to construct this building and what kind of mitigation is going to be on Eth Street as far as like tra and ninth street as far as um traffic. So, we're looking at like a one to one and a half year construction timeline and and you know employing techniques to keep traffic off of 8th Street as well as the alley. And what that means is taking deliveries and taking them off the trucks, unloading as quick as possible and using staging areas within the building rather than outside the building. Are you gonna have to close down 8th Street then?

No. Go after it. But I mean for short periods, you know, we're going to have to take over the sidewalk. Yeah. Perhaps on some deliveries we may have to cordon off just the width of the building so a truck could park there. But we don't have to close 8th Street ever. Not close eighth street, but are you going to stop traffic like having trap, you know, the traffic? Don't anticipate that. I mean, maybe if a cement truck pulls in or it goes into the alley, um it shouldn't be blocking traffic on 8th Street. We're going to work out a whole traffic mitigation plan for the constru construction plan with um the

and we and we do have the the use of the 14 and 1/2t wide alley for most deliveries. So, we're anticipating, you know, the crane and and the larger deliveries happening in the alley, and we'll we'll try and time those around the the local trash pickup times so that we're not in conflict. So, the alley will be clo will be closed most of the time. No, no, no. Just periodically when deliveries happen. Yeah. Or when the crane set up, right? The crane won't take up the entire width of the alley. And these aren't big cranes. This is more or less a like a travel lift type of crane and it's

you can get cars past it. I was just going to mention that a major piece of the building permit application will be the construction management plan on this particular application if it were to be approved. Um, you know, 8th Street carries a significant amount of traffic every day, much more than I expected. Approximately 8,000 cars. Yes. Um, so completely uh limiting access along 8th Street would likely be during nighttime hours. Most of the construction traffic will utilize the alley and then again that would be restricted to certain periods of time.

And our lot's 150 ft long. So we have a significant portion of our lot can handle these deliveries and handle the trucks while they're unloading and loading. So, I don't I don't actually anticipate blocking the alley for significant lengths of time either. Well, you're talking about just loading and unloading. I'm talking about also like construction. You know, you're constructing that facade. Seems like 8th Street might have to have some periods of

Well, we're hoping that we can keep that and we're planning on keeping that just in front of the building. So where there's parking now that might be reserved for construction at that particular time.

Also also the sidewalks are 11 ft deep in that area. So that significant amount of space in front of the building that doesn't even impact the parking. Any other questions for the applicant? No. Well, thank you so much for your presentation. We appreciate it. Yeah, pleasure. Okay.

Okay. Now we will ask if there's any comments from the public about this project in person or online.

Hello. Please state your name.

Good evening. My name is Cliff Hog. Been a resident in Glennwood Springs since 1960. Uh my business partner, Mr. Barnes was born in Glennwood Springs and we just happen to own the building adjacent to the one that's been constructed. So, we're going to have the maximum impact during construction period and then for a long range period following that. But I know I can object to the fact that we're putting residential units in the core of downtown Glenwood Springs considering all the development that has gone in West Glennwood Meadows 27th Street and Blake 27th Street and Midland. And now we're proposing a whole new development at Cattle Creek. and the Whipples want to put a residential unit right in the middle of Lynwood Springs. I protest that. I'm objecting I'm objecting to that. Secondly, we lost several parking places when the garage when the the bridge was built. The raft bus system has a parking space right at our building. and they took up six parking spaces which now are not available for clients to the tenants that are within our building. So, we're objecting to that. And I know there's nothing we can do about that. It's set in concrete. They don't have to provide the parking, but that's going to have an impact on the tenants of our building. And lastly, if I just heard Steve correctly, he said that the face facing 8th Street connecting to our building, there's only 1 foot 9 in separation.

That 1 foot 9 in for however the depth is. I didn't get the depth. That's going to be a perfect place for the accumulation of snow to build up between these two buildings. And we think there that has to be addressed either by covering that section. There has to be either heat tape or some way to remove that buildup of moisture between those two buildings. And that's it's one of our primary concerns. U Thank you for your attention. And that's about all I have to say. Just that's my objection. D.

Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Anyone else from the public like to speak or online? Can I just Can you approach the microphone? Come up. Yes. Do you need my name and all that? The whole thing.

Yes, please. Shannon Palind. I actually live at 701 Canyon Creek Drive. Um and and my dad actually is one of the partners in um that owns the the neighboring building. My my uh clarifying question was just around I think they said they had 10 spots that they were leasing for the tenants of this building. And did you say they're at Maxwell Anderson? That's where the spots are going to be leased in their parking lot. Okay. So, I just want to make sure that the that you guys because that seemed unclear when that question was asked before that that's where those spots would be. Thanks. That's all I wanted. Thank you. Okay.

Can you approach the microphone, please? Yeah, you did. Well, maybe you asked the question. I was just wondering. It's Can you approach? It's just for the record. Sorry. Yes. Thank you so much. It's okay. Uh well um according to the drawing it looks like the buildings are right together. Um and yet the I understand to say there's windows on the east side of their building. How can that be? Sir sir, would you mind stating your name for the record, please? Sorry.

Thank you. He uh the that's a question I think the applicant answered but I I did ask a question and he did respond that there will be windows on both sides of the buildings. But I mean if the buildings are right like this, how can there be windows? I am not a building expert, but um maybe the applicant could come back up and answer that question. Steve, I think or Steve like he's raising his hand. Yes, I I'd be happy to answer your question. So in the first 57 ft of the building, okay, it's on the first level, there's no windows at all.

Then the building steps back 3 ft. So there can be a little space for light to come in and there's six windows in that space. And then on the fourth floor, there's windows that will overlook the other building that face east also. So we've we've designed the building to not have windows in the very small 1 foot n space. The minimum space we have is 3 ft. And then there's another step back where the building becomes 6 feet from the property line, but that actually occurs after the neighboring building stops.

So it's it's all worked out so that we don't have windows in that little corridor. And my plan is to put um roofing over it and fences on both ends and make that cavity inaccessible to snow, rain, rodents, anything. It's going to be a a blocked space that's completely a void so that we don't have any potential issues occurring in that tiny gap because the gap's not even parallel. It it it varies and we're just we have a plan to to plug that up. I've done a number of zero lot line buildings in California and other parts of the country and and I have methods for blocking that whole space off and it just becomes a void, a ventilated void so it can get air but no pests, no no debris, no snow, none of that will be allowed to to accumulate in that space.

And it's also paved in between. So again, the dirt's not even exposed. Okay, thank you. That was a very comprehensive answer. Thank you, Steve. You're welcome. I I did think about it very hard and long and figured out a plan to work around it as I always do.

Excellent. Okay. Are there any more comments? All right. I think we will close the public comment section and uh bring it back to the commission for discussion and a motion. Um I have a question before we do that. So for the variances, um can we should we do them separately or can if somebody makes a motion to do them together? And I'm only saying to do them together because of the fact that some of these are and Connie or in Commissioner Gim's statements are just like to rectify um you know six inches. So is and I felt like we all got very good explanations unless we should do them separately.

Yeah, I was going to say I think you're fine doing it collectively. I mean if you have people who want to pull one in particular out obviously that creates problem if you've got a motion for all of them. But I think we just see where you guys are at as you move through these motions. But if you want to do them collectively that that would be fine. Okay. I just wanted to put that out there. Okay. So, back to the commissioners, right? Action item one, uh, the minor site and architectural plan.

I move to recommend approval of the application planning file arc-0000130-2025. It meets the approval criteria for a minor site and architectural plan with the findings and conditions outlined in the staff report and that would be on packet page 30 and 31. Okay. So, we have a motion to approve. And can I get a second? A second. Okay, we have a motion to approve and a second. And any discussion? Feels like such a small group today.

I know. Um, I think that I I mean I have a few things to say, but I'll let you guys because I'm I'm in a different role today. So, who would like to say something first? You get us started.

Yeah. I mean, I think uh the applicant has done a really good job in trying to be a good neighbor um in, you know, meeting with um part, you know, parts of the community that they didn't necessarily have to meet with. Um I do I'm excited that this is um you know we haven't seen a a a request like this in a really long time. It's going to give five um uh resident occupied units which is I think really important for the downtown area. Um and I do think it compliance with the zoning. It meets design standards and aligns quite well with our comprehensive plan. So, um, yeah, I don't have I think the one thing will be the traffic safety issues, which I'm sure will be identified during the building planning process. The city will do an excellent job, I'm sure. Uh, any other comments, questions, discussion? Yeah, I think this is a project that if you took the comprehensive plan points and put it into a project, we'd be looking at it. Largely speaking, I obviously nothing can be a perfect project, but

um we're getting density where we already have development and utilities. We're getting it next to transit. Um we're getting like you said the five deer restricted units. Um well, I have a question maybe for staff on that. Are those income qualified or ma is it just the maximum rent is 100% of AMI? I have to remember my standards between my former job but I think it's both for us. Is that right Emory? I believe it's just maximum right there's not there's no income set

on average. Yeah. This is one of those it's one of those um one of our kind of um lightest touch deed restrictions compared to the ones where we have both both EMI and income qualify. Um but yeah, I think it's a project that's done a lot to try and and fit into the fabric of our our downtown core. Um and it it dovtales nicely with the comprehensive plan. Yeah, I I would like to see the arch somehow survive, but maybe that's just wishful.

I don't know if I'm allowed to say that out loud, but I did. And now it's on record. Do you have any comments, questions? Okay, let's call the vote. Did you have

I was just gonna Oh, I'm still I think it's beautiful and I do think we do need more mixed use. I think that is um the future of our downtown area. I do have some concern about parking and the limited amount of parking. I it would be nice if people obviously had less cars and our city were was able to sustain, you know, not having vehicles. Um and I I do I do have concern about the construction process. I have been on um sites where there's big buildings being built on roads and I do think there will be paws of traffic on 8th Street which I think is going to be a really big deal. So I'd like to make sure that that doesn't happen. Um 8th Street just stays open. Otherwise I think it's really beautiful and I'm gonna second the arch.

Thank you. Can we add that to the variance? It's a special. Yeah, it's actually considered science. It's they'd have to come back. Okay. So, um I think we can call the vote. Wait, can I do this from here? No, you're ready. Should be out. It's been called. Oh, it has. Okay. Do I What do I do? Yeah, sure. If you would show up correct on the screen. Perfect. Can I go over here? Yeah, just start over. Okay, we had a pass unanimous um since white is missing.

Okay, and then next. So, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, design variances.

That's where I was going next. Yeah. Okay. Now, do I have a motion for design variances 1 through six? Okay. I move to approve planning file of the AR 000019-2026 as it meets the approval criteria for design variance with findings outlined in the staff report. Uh that's on packet page 68 and 69. Just for clarification, is that for the first design variance or all six?

That would be for action items 2.1 through 2.6. So all six variances design variances. Thank you. Okay. With that clarification, do I get a second, please? I'll second the motion. Commissioner Gin seconds. and any discussion about the variances. I I just go back to the purpose section of our uh building design standards in the code and

um it's called out in the code. The purpose is to ensure compatibility, right? I I think the intent of the code has been met if not the letter. And that's why we have this process to allow for us an approval of the intent of the code being met in an alternative manner.

Right. Yeah. I mean I totally agree. I do also agree with Commissioner Gman in that maybe and when if there is another project to this scale that um maybe staff take a look at what should or shouldn't be a variance. is six inches gonna um be such a huge undertaking? Um I think you know because then there's the whole building code side of things. You know that's not like something that we look at but um anyway. Okay. Uh where were we? Uh so we had a first and a second. Do you have any does any

Yeah, I mean I'm just going to reiterate that I think it's kind of um excessive to have six design variances, but to think that they're all okay. It makes me um wonder why we have the design. I I agree with John that it obviously meets the intent of the code, but uh it makes me feel uncomfortable to have six six variances on the design and we'll just go back and look at those. Yeah. And I mean for as far as the comprehensive plan, downtown vitality, housing supply, mixeduse development, walkability as Commissioner Hton had said it really is like a neat little package. So, okay.

And I saw the the struggles over there with the agenda. We may just want to do a roll call vote on this one since we don't have the ability on the agenda for the second item. Okay. So, if uh you would state your name and a yes or a no, right? Correct. Thank you. We'll start with you. Or we can call your name. You call our names. That seems more fun. Okay. Yeah. Go for it. Is there a particular order or No. Uh, Commissioner G. Approve.

Hton. Yes. Conton. Yes. Jones. Yes. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you so much. Good luck. Thank you. All right. Take a minute. Um, is it okay if we take a break? Yes, you could take a break. Um, and you know,

we can certainly move forward with this item if you prefer. Um, the obviously we set this up as a work session expecting more members to be here this evening. Um, and we could we can continue the conversation or we can push it to next month if we prefer. I mean, if it's a work in the work session, I didn't even review the work session because I was so I was I was so intense on these. But if it's a work session, I mean, it would be better if more of us were here. So, yeah, I tried to get her to stick around. No, it took off.

She got in the car. So would it be is this where Okay, so I can continue. I need a motion. Yeah, I think it's a work session. I don't know that you even really need a motion necessarily. If somebody want to make a motion to continue for the next regular meeting, that would be fine. Um and then you can probably wrap things up instead of taking a break. Okay. So maybe we will just um entertain for our work session a motion to continue to next time um for when we have more players at the table. So moved. Second. Second.

Okay. Third. All in favor all in favor say I. Okay. So, we're gonna we we're moving to continue the work session. Okay. So, um we'll bring it back to commission for um I have a comment. I was going to allow our fearless leader to first. Oh, we're first. And then it's okay. Yes. Do you have any comments, sir, for your first meeting? Uh not at this moment, though. Commissioner Gin.

Yeah. So, I I know I'm nerdy, but I like to watch the um city council meetings recorded, not live. And I noticed this last meeting somebody added advertisements. So, you have to like every 15 minutes a commercial pops up and then you have to YouTube. Yeah, it's on YouTube. But I don't if it's never been like that before because I'm a nerd and I've been watching them for a while. I I will check on that. I thought our I thought we the way we were set up that was not the case. Yeah, it was something like gotten changed on the back. The last two meetings definitely had commercials. Yeah, city council needs money. We get it. But I don't watch the commercials on your

No, it was everything these days. No. Uh well, I appreciate you bringing that to our attention. I I don't you know, for those of us that are in the room, I we normally don't relive it. I don't watch it live. because so I appreciate that. We'll bring it up with Bri who usually handles those things. Okay, thanks. Evans, yeah, I guess just piggybacking on that. Why are work sessions not broadcast or recorded? And you don't have to answer, but

yeah. No, I I Well, there's a couple reasons. One is um honestly, we oftentimes have a really hard time. the work sessions are usually down in the well and historically we have struggled with the audio being good enough for anybody to actually hear what they're talking about um and for it to be effective. um we're not required to keep minutes in the same way for a work session. And so we've really just not used it. Otherwise, we have to move council up for the dis. It becomes a much more formal setting and feeling for them to work through issues and meet. You know, if we have uh like a meeting with the planning commission, for instance, it just feels weird if you guys are in chairs out in front of them and they're setting up the diets and you're supposed to be having a conversation with each other. Um so that's really a lot of it. just from a citizens point of view, it feels like if we're making all this effort to for transparency and to be transparent as a city, there's important discussion that happens at work sessions, you know.

Yeah. And there have been a couple like I I think the vlog discussions at least the second one for sure was reported and and available on YouTube, I believe. Um so I I think it has kind of depended if if they know it's going to be something that is super interesting. Again, if they're doing a um an update with the Historic Preservation Commission, probably they're not going to record it um or broadcast it. Um so, you know, I think that's certainly something you might want to, you know, take up with your, you know, I can't remember where you live, so I don't know which one. Council member, you can pick on that SAR. Yeah, pick on Sumar about it. Uh

yeah, because there there has to be like a microphone you can put in the middle of a table where everybody can hear. Uh yeah, I mean there is sort of I mean if you have seen how it's set up, it's the the round table there. There are supposed to be mics hanging from the ceiling that it does work pretty well. I can tell you having been online before trying to to hear what's going on, it can be tough. Um so that's that's really like no no no reason to try to avoid it. It's just mostly been I think mostly technical um than anything. Good.

Okay. Well, um I'd like to say kudos to staff. I mean, the the um packet was super comprehensive and I really appreciated it. Thank you, Emory. Because it was the variances were incredibly they were they incredibly difficult to figure out, you know, and just really having to understand and really kind of map it out was um that was just really important. So, thank you so much. So, Okay. And then comments from

uh just gonna say thank you for tonight. I know we kind of were left a little short-handed and filled in seats and kind of a last minute change in chair. So just thank you for that and uh hopefully you enjoyed your dinner. Tried to make sure we had some good vegetarian options for you tonight. Um there was a debate on whether it was too close to Chinese and we're like no no no not even close. It's perfect. um upcoming meetings. You know, we had a conversation about lighting at the last uh work session. We may be bringing that one back around in terms of just actual code changes that we would recommend. Um we'll have the conversation about landscaping that really is is intended just to address some some staff uh critique of the code and how we apply it to various development uh permits as well as some considerations for the upcoming Colorado wildfire resiliency code adoption. we're going to need to make some changes there. Um I don't think we have any um major development permit applications coming up for next month. We had a couple in the works that kind of kind of fell out um you know based once we got our hands on them and and and told them applicable standards and difficulties and challenges and whatever else but um thank you all very much. Um I think um in terms of of staff staffing levels right now you guys um we we promoted within our office um Watkins Folk Gray to the housing development manager position. He's still going to serve in a planning role as well. So we're really excited about that. And we have Joel who's going to be attending with our meetings tonight um and moving into the future. Joel's been a fantastic addition to our to our office and as our building permit technician and really kind of our our EPNL our online permitting um software kind of guru and keeping us all together there does a good job. So I think that's about it from us.

Does that does the variance um application is that that's online or are they typing that it is online? Okay. Because yeah, the underlining was Yeah, maybe it should just be a text box. Okay. Um, well, without further ado, I get to hit the gavvel. Yay.

What?