Council - Regular Meeting

It is 6:15. I call the city council meeting to order on December 18th, 2025. Mayor Prom Zalinski present. Councelor Townsley, Councelor Schmall, Councelor Wymer, Councelor Shaker, Councelor Smith, we have a quorum. Fantastic. Do we have any uh agenda changes? Yeah. Yep. Madame Mayor Prom, I'd like to suggest item A from the consent agenda be moved to the regular agenda.

Excellent. Can we move that to the first action item in place of number seven? Thank you. Anything else? Any uh disclosure of the conflicts of interest? Hearing none. Moving on. Uh citizens appearing before council not items not on the agenda. Please um state your name and whether or not you live in the city limits and then um just if you could please keep your comments to three minutes.

Can do. Um Bailey Lepic within city limits. I'm here to voice my concerns about the ALPR cameras. And to be clear, I'm not focused on the speed cameras. That did, however, bring uh my attention to the fact that the city already has many ALPR cameras, which are not used to issue citations, but which do capture draget data of all passing vehicles. I have three main concerns with this. One, data security from the third party companies which own the data. Two, no benefit provided to the public. and three, lack of transparency degrading public trust. A little bit more on those three points. One, data security. In my opinion, it's a wrong and a breach of public trust that the city is giving away our data to companies whose securities cannot be trusted. The city does not own this data. We rent it. The companies we rent from, like Flock, own the data. These companies have terrible data security records. Flock doesn't require multifactor authentication. Their data has been found for sale on Russian hacking forums. Motorola cameras were allowing anybody to live stream data from their system. On top of this, there are many cases of the data being misused and abused. Um, especially for false accusations or stalking. This is a real issue for me is I've had three close family or friends who have had to move because of a stalker. So, let's say I moved here avoiding a stalker. Um, but he has some connection to any law enforcement agency anywhere in the country. He can use the Glenwood Springs cameras to figure out where I live, when I leave for work every morning, where I work, when I leave work each day. [clears throat] On top of that, this data is shared with ICE and is being used for racial profiling, which is putting members of our community at risk. ACLU has identified this as a violation of civil liberties. Two, no benefit provided. On top of giving away our data, the city is paying to give away our data and thereby we are paying to have our data mishandled. So, what is

the benefit that's being provided for this risk? There's no benefit being provided. There's no independent research proving the ALPR cameras reduce crime. I'm sure Flock uh has some numbers from their own studies that they gave to the city, but these have not been corroborated. Three, lack of transparency. On top of all of this, there's a lack of transparency from the city on how this data is collected and shared. I read the corora requests on the location of ALPRS and I noticed about a third of the data was redacted. There has been no effort from the city to educate the public that these cameras exist, why they exist, how they're used, and how the data is handled. This is leading to massive distrust from city residents. The general feeling that I've heard from multiple people I've talked to is that the city is paying for something that provides no benefit but risks our data and endangers our community. and we need better transparency on this matter from the city. Thank you for uh the opportunity to voice my concerns.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Same instructions. Thank you.

Thanks. I'm uh Doug Winter. I live within city limits. And I'd like to underscore several of the points that the previous uh commenter made and also offer a path forward and and some opportunities for council and for Glennwood Springs PD to to maybe work on the situation a little bit. So, you know, first I look at the budget for 2026 and I see that so far there are $375,000 invested in the flock program in the previous three years. It's a substantial sum of money and I understand that council is trying to do the right thing and police department is trying to do the right thing uh by and for the the citizens of Glenwood and I think that that's admirable but it it is not a good investment and I notice that there's an additional 60,000 in the 2026 draft budget. I think the city should really consider whether continuing to double down on this is adding benefit and also how the citizens of Glenwood see this money uh this expenditure. You know, I understand that the 2026 budget is designed to be really streamlined. Again, I think that a lot of people are on board for that and they understand the constraints. I don't think they would understand 60 grand more into the flock program. And you know, again, to underscore the concerns that that we have and and again, it's the previous commenter, it's myself, the people that I talked to, my friends around town. We don't see a benefit for this. We don't see a way that that these cameras are improving our lives. I understand the potential use case for them, but we're not seeing that. And we're seeing a really big downside to our security uh the security of our data and uh you know our privacy which I think people really value people from all walks of life really value. Another thing um and again I'm I'm not talking about the speed cameras. It's just the flock cameras.

The other type uh I note that there has been some really strong effort to communicate to the public about the speed cameras. Councelor Zalinsky had an article in the post independent that was super helpful. I see that Glenwood Police Department has a dedicated uh page on their site to to show the locations of the speed cameras and explain how that system works. That's that's great. People are able to whether or not they agree with it, they're able to see what's going on and have some dialogue around it. The flot camera program is lacking any of that. I mean, previous commenter mentioned the redacted Corora request on the website. It doesn't give us a good feeling. We want to understand what's going on and we're concerned. So, [clears throat] uh, two requests for council to please consider removing the flock budget from the 2026 or flock sorry from the 2026 budget and also please consider some sort of outreach to the public about what's going on with these things. Um, and thank you for your time and I'd be happy to discuss further and you know where to find me.

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Thank you.

Sure, Ned. Again, thank you all for serving. There's problems in Glenwood Springs and our authorities above you all. Well, maybe below you. Chris was nice enough to bring this today. I paid for it August 11th with a Glenwood police and a core request. I had made a request before that. finally getting it today. I paid for it August 11th. Let's return everybody back to five days a week is if they're not doing their job, they're not doing their job. Now, I showed our city manager the annunciator outside, which Robin right there says, "Oh, that's not for anybody. That's just for fire." The building I live in is unfortunately managed by Crystal Properties. doesn't do a very good job. The panel was in trouble forever. He got tired of me calling. So the email is they were going to move it, not remove it. From his mouth, the unit underneath me, he told me, "Don't worry, you have a detector." I was severely disabled. Now, instead of every 7 days, my meds are now 20,000 bucks every 10 days. I'm doing a bit better. But when I went over to Glenwood Fire and had an argument with him, my First Amendment rights were violated by Joe Daryus. Supposedly, according to Claire and the

PD, the communication was from Joe to John, and there's no record of it. Then, how did five or six police officers show up? John didn't like what I said, so he stopped. I walked out. I saw a guy. He's apparently in academy. Corey Glennwood sweater, no equipment. I walked up to him with my hand out. I don't know you. And April Rose, who I'm going to challenge her qualified immunity, came up with no orders, no directive, and started pushing me, a disabled senior. We're going to have fun with this one. We're also going to have fun with him because it's all going to come out. And I look forward to it. I'm feeling good enough now. I feel like the fight. And I'm sorry to bring you in on this, but when our safety chief wants to give somebody, our fire marshall wants to give a citizens crap about a tent, but they make our building less safe. Something's wrong. Thank you.

I'm glad you're feeling better, Ned. Anybody else? Nope. All right. So, moving on. Oh, yeah. Did Sorry. Lots of comments. Lots of comments. Yeah, Steve, too. I was just going to ask um Steve if it be possible to put on the future work session something around these flock cameras just so we can start to get educated. Yeah, I made that. Okay. Thank you. Okay. T Smith basically just [clears throat] ditto at least from that shortand or acronym I don't know what we're talking about I may know what we're talking about but by that so education session would be helpful

thank you yeah I was going to ask for the same I didn't know if there was any reply that you care to have tonight or just yeah I don't I don't think so I think it' probably be better to do it a little more formally and give you guys all the background information um I know that this is a deep concern in a lot of communities right now um and they're deployed pretty widely in Colorado. So, I think there's a lot to talk about um and to get you guys up to speed about what various communities have done or are doing. Yeah. So, happy to.

And you know, I was going to mention I have um reached out to both uh Chief Daryus and Deputy Chief Hassel and had some firsthand like education about these and and seen a little bit more deeply into how they're using and what sort of like parameters our law enforcement has and accountability. Um, I think that what looks like kind of a lack of transparency is mainly because it's been used as a law enforcement tool where, you know, it does say speed cameras are, but they're much more public facing. And so, I think, yeah, if we can get a little bit more education, a little more understanding so that we can speak with authority and um, from an informed place, I think it would be really beneficial. So, I appreciate you bringing these concerns to us and know that we've shared them and you know, we will continue to try and do the best we can in behalf of our community. So, thank you.

Thank you. Yes. Appreciate it. All right. Any other comments? No. All right. So, seeing none, we're going to move on to council announcements. Anybody? Anybody? I have a couple of nobody else. Okay, councelor Smith.

Oh, it still didn't work. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do you want to go first? No.

Um, just [clears throat] a some quick kind of after the fact announcements, some recent meetings, quite a string of them. Uh on December 9th, I attended the Colorado Mountain College public reception which was linked to their board of trustees meeting in which they installed the newly elected members of that board. So it was kind of a cool event to see. But the college went to great lengths to kind of make this a public encounter. It was kind of a chitchat meet and greet as they called it. But the thing that struck me was that the new relatively new president of the college uh spoke at length about a new expansion of their um center for civics which is something that was created a couple years ago. You might remember there was a book for everybody to read and there was talk about civics. They [clears throat] now have a threequarters of a million dollar grant from of all things the federal department of education. Apparently, they got the money soon enough to expand their efforts both in actually creating an associate degree program in civics and civics outreach uh and then to do in each of their college towns including Blemouth Springs um public uh discussion groups and civic education. uh they're putting together a training program for social studies teachers in all the middle schools and high schools and um actual inter encounters with students as well. Uh it just sounds cool to me. Uh it just also seems like there there will be opportunities for the city and maybe city council members in particular to help with that to bring some civic experience to those conversations. So it's kind of an exciting prospect that's cranking up with real money to back it up. Um on de also on December 9th, the workforce housing advisory board met and um among other things affirmed

their collective comfort with the la relatively last minute increase in city contribution to the Canyon Vista project. We were kind of anxious two weeks ago about doing that. uh councelor Shaper was good enough to call upon a couple of members of that board and it turns out they were representative. The other members concurred. Um the they also began discussions of what they are going to do in general over their next year kind of their work plan their vision and really they started to talk about their vision for their next two years in which as a result of this canyon vista increase they're going to have overall less funding than they might have to on which to make recommendations but they're they're still enthused about it and we're coming up with some very productive discussions on on things that they want to bring to the city council work session or otherwise once they've got them crafted. A couple days later on December 11th, you want to talk about the rafted board meeting. Do you want me to give a couple of highlights?

It was such a brief meeting. Go for it. It was a quick meeting. It was basically just the end of the year meeting uh primarily to approve the new year's budget and the corresponding mill levy setting for their their the portion of their funding that comes from property tax. Um, I also talked quite a bit about the hogback service, which is the portion of the raft network that goes from rifle Newcastle sil rifle basically to here is increasingly an important connector for Glenwood Springs workers. Um, it funding was in question. funding is now secured with a partial contribution of Garfield County and two additional contributions from Silton news silent rifle Newcastle and rifle.

Yeah.

Uh so that's funding is solid through the spring with an enhance that is increased frequency service midday. Uh after that it's got basic funding maybe not with the enhance but at least basic funding essentially through the end of the year. Beyond that RAF doesn't know quite where the money is going to come from for the hogback. discussions are are ensuing. Um, coincidentally, a relatively apparently a relatively new auxiliary member of the RAFTA board is a representative from the Colorado RI River Valley Development Partnership uh, which itself convened um, a [clears throat] municipalities conversation about transportation basically mainly west transportation just in the last few weeks. uh and they talked among other about their local transportation needs, but they also also talked about the hogback. So, there's a real nice teamwork shaping up on that topic.

So, so just for clarification, um Miss Griezley is not a member of the board. She'll just be attending as a citizen. Yeah. Like paying attention, use the word auxiliary or whatever the Yeah, she's just gonna

just invited just coordinate with that. Uh and then finally um I um the finding zoning commission met on December 16th for another work session. U I got permission from the chairman and from lead staff to sit in on the bleachers again on that. And again I was fascinated with kind of the imaginative discussion that those members uh bring to to this topic and in this case the topic specifically of housing. They're trying to define from their previous meeting and this one how their authority and their insights can apply to Glenn Springs housing issues. Um it was a more structured discussion than the previous meeting because staff brought some exercises and some some kind of techniques for narrowing down priorities, but there was still a bit of a brainstorm angle to it and and that was fun. There were some hairrained ideas. There were some really good ideas, but they're thinking and they're being very imaginative and they specifically will be bringing some some new things back for the council to consider. It was a pretty lively week. Thanks.

Fantastic. Anything else? Dave, you complete too late. Okay, perfect. Anybody else? No. All right, real briefly. Um first during citizen comments um somebody remotely had raised their hand but um we don't take uh comments from the public remotely. So I apologize whoever that was that I didn't call on you but um that's just policy to keep people from outside of the community from hijacking our meetings. So

for items not on the agenda exactly. Thank you. Um I wanted to say to a couple of things. one um up at Lynwood Cemetery, the city will be conducting burn piles again on Sunday. Um so if you look up and see smoke, it's not cause for concern. Um GS Fire GSFD will be taking care of that, managing that. Um I noticed just uh through a post on social media that there is a new homeless resource um on Grand Avenue. I believe it's at 1004 Grand, which I think might be the church that's located above the uh downtown drug there. But they're open Tuesday through Friday from 8:30 a.m. till 400 p.m. showers. Um laundry facilities. I I'm not entirely sure, but yeah. Um

yeah,

showers, laundry facilities, meals, um some counseling, Bible studies, some just like some resources for uh some of our population that's kind of going through it. And then um something pretty interesting in the world of aviation, uh both CMC and Glenwood High School are offering an aviation pilot ground school course. Um yeah, and so our local airport has a flight simulator and some of that will be used. Um there's a an organization called Epic Flights that has um do quite a bit up in the Aspen area schools and they're starting to move down to our end of the valley. So they have a free discovery flight for graduation graduates of these programs. Um so again, you can get this like through it's actually on the schedule for CMC. It's an accredited I think a four credit course and then it's also offered um probably through the concurrent program. I don't know specifically but Glo High School has a concurrent program with CMC and I'm guessing that's where this other so people interested in aviation now have a local resource which I think is kind of exciting. So that's all I got. All righty. So moving on to our um consent agenda. Councelor Warmer.

Madame Mayor Pro 10. Wait one second. Oh, I'm sorry. It's two buttons. I'm doing only one. I move to approve the cons consent agenda with the uh with the one change of moving item A now on to the uh regular agenda. Do I see a second? Oh, start over again. Sorry, fat fingers. Councelor Shatner, I'll second. All those in favor? I. Any opposed?

Nope. Hearing none. Consent agenda approved. Um, first action item would be item A from the consent agenda, resolution 2025-32, allowing signatures on 1441 Riverside Drive property purchase.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Prom, I can uh take this one. Several months ago, we were contacted by Mr. and Mrs. Smith about a property that they own on Riverside Drive. Um, they were going to put the property on the market and they realized that the city owned property around that area on the river corridor and offered that property for purchase to the city before they put it on the market. We had an appraisal done a few months ago. Um we um offered them the appraised value of the property at that time. We then went through a due diligence process led by director of public works Langghorst. We found a couple of things that we would have to mitigate or remedy. Um we asked them to drop the purchase price by that amount. They agreed. Um, what you've got in front of you tonight is authorizing the mayor or mayor prom to sign the closing documents when we get there. Um, we think that that property is very useful to the city because it gives us access from the other side of the Lone Pine property that we don't currently have. It does have a house. It's very inhabitable on it. In the meantime, before we actually use that access or anything else happens, I I'd like to talk to you guys about allowing some public safety personnel to live in that house as workforce housing sponsored by the city. So, staff supports this and I would like to say thank you to Mr. and Mrs. Smith. I think that the gesture that they've made to this community is is um you know, worthy of saying thank you for. So, happy to take any questions. Any questions or comments from council? No. Uh, yep. Coun councelor Townsley.

Uh, I just think and and Steve mentioned this. I think it's really important that we're picking up both access benefits and also the benefit of possibly having a recruiting tool, possibly having a tool that that is very helpful to us and I think makes the purchase much more worthwhile. So, thank you. Anybody else? Do we take comments from the public on this one? We moved it. Yeah. So, any comments from the public? I don't see anything online. No. All right. So, closing that. Um, I guess we call the question. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Duh.

Oh, yeah. Madame Mayor, uh Prom, if I may, I move to approve resolution 2532, uh allowing for approval signatures for 1441, reaper side purchase as presented. And do I see a second? Second the motion.

Excellent. Now I think I can call the question. Didn't I? Oh, it passes 6. Thank you. Okay. Moving on to uh resolution 2025-31, living facility non-transfer call fees schedule.

Uh thank you, Madame Mayor. Pro Tim. Uh what you have in front of you is a fee resolution. You'll recall um I think it was three me or two meetings ago we passed on first reading ordinance establishing fee the uh ability to charge fees for non-transport calls to particular categories of facilities. What is defined in statute as living facilities. Um we get a number of these calls where we're essentially filling in for what should be their medical team. Um, as you know, it is expensive for us to send out a an ambulance and typically that is accompanied by either a command vehicle or um another engine um per kind of our protocols. Um so what you have in front of you um was continued from the last meeting because we were running late. Uh setting those transfer those fees. Um the uh first call is in a 12-month uh period would be no flee and then escalate to $1,500 and then $2,500 for anything after the third or more non-transport call um that we would be responding to at one of those facilities. Happy to answer any questions.

Councelor Smith, thank you. Um I think we touched close to this in the original discussion. Um [clears throat] apparently there this happens maybe sometimes accidentally maybe sometimes in with with bad intent or with with with trickery and that there are some facilities that do it more than others. Um, I assume that we'll give all of these facilities, maybe particularly the frequent flyers, notice of this before the first ticket.

Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think that's why um we have that first first one, no fee. Obviously, that's the learning experience is reminding these facilities. I think we'll also probably do a little bit of an outreach campaign to make sure uh that they understand that this is coming and the expect and what the expectation is um around our response um uh to those facilities. So I I think education definitely we've been trying to do that as well. And so this gives us another tool to try to I mean really what our goal is is not to run false you know not to run for non-emergent situations so that our teams can be dealing with the things that they should be dealing with. Thank you. All right councelor Townsley

Steve did we that one did you get that typo fixed on there? There was one and I forget which one was which, but there was a it was just carried from one document to the next where it talked about alarms and it was actually the living I think I did get that. Okay, cool. I was trying to find on here but your smile

um did we come up with a a rationale for the pricing at some sort of a nexus? Yeah, I think we're um our our feeling is is that at 20 at the most expensive that is still far below what it typically char what it typically would cost to roll four personnel into two apparatus uh an ambulance and either a command vehicle or an engine on any of these calls. So we are comfortable that these fees are below what the actual costs of providing that service are. So we're comfortable with the nexus. Yeah. And that's I guess that was my concern is that it's it costs a lot more to do this than what we're charging. So

yeah, I I think um I think what I would recommend and I think the conversation that we've had internally as staff is that let's give this a try and see if this gets the desired effect. Our goal is not to really ever have to charge these fees is is really the point of the fee schedule, right? So, if we're not getting compliance or we're still having problems, we'll probably be back looking to ratchet those numbers up to the point where it makes where we get the kind of compliance that we're looking for.

How many of these facilities are we talking about? There's two or three of them in town. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's probably not. It should be pretty easy to dial in on where I I think it's going to be pretty easy to dial in and and we have one facility in particular that that is probably the most problematic for us. Um so we'll get back to you and let you know in the next you know all of these things are um kind of learning experiences. We'll see if we get where we need to go and if not we'll be back trying something else as well. Fantastic. Oh, thank you Carl. These facilities are licensed. They are

part of that lensure. Do they have to provide 247 onsite medical? What is it? Yeah, there it's I think it's varying levels depending on the specific type of facility, but the expectation is yes that there is on-site medical staff um that typically these times type the types of things that we've been responding to we believe should be being handled by them internally. um you know kind of we had a lot of discussion around whether or not we should make this more of a a challenge to their licensing or not but we also recognize that these facilities provide critical care to a a part of our population. So we're just trying to find a way to nudge them in the right direction to get the outcome that we're looking for.

So it seems like there's probably not a great excuse most of the time for our folks to be responding. Yeah. I mean, I think that um the frustration that our crews and and certainly Chief Daryus has is that we are um and the taxpayers are kind of filling in for a service that they should be providing as part of what they're charging, which is not insignificant. They're charging people to be in those facilities. So there again, our goal is not to make any money off this necessarily. Our goal is to not roll for the calls if we don't need to be there. Thank you. And if I'm not mistaken, one of the other concerns is that this takes people offline for emergencies.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we um it it takes the crew offline um for a period of time and uh as you guys have been talking through the budget process um we're tight on personnel uh in you know in both fire and and police and so anything that takes us offline is not a good thing. Excellent. All right. So, at this point, do we take public comment or Yeah. questions from the community, from the empty room? Anybody? All right. So, I guess at this point, I'd entertain a motion. Oh, councelor Townsley.

I move that uh we approve resolution 2025-31, living facility non-transport call fee schedule as written. Excellent. Do I hear a second? Shatner. Second. Second. And then call the question. Wait, is there discussion? Sorry. Any discussion? No. Okay, now we're going to call the question. Sorry, I'm not great at this. It passes 6. just want your mic. Okay.

All right. So, moving on to uh the next item which is resolution 2025-30, the excessive alarm fee schedule.

Uh thank you, Madame Mayor Pro Tim. Uh what you have in front of you is resolution 202532 setting fees there. Again, a couple meetings ago, you passed it on first reading and at the last meeting on second reading um authorizing um fees for excessive alarms. Um I apologize off the top of my head I um I can't remember all the categories. Category 2 was essentially you haven't maintained your system and it keeps going off and it's a monitored system that we're responding to. Uh there again um we did not um specifically propose a fee when we uh talked through this at the work session. There was a variety of opinion from you guys. Um I'm pretty comfortable that any fee that you set is going to be less than what our actual cost is to go to any of these calls here. Again, our goal is not to necessarily make money. Our goal is to get compliance. And so, we believe that an escalating fee schedule is appropriate. Um, I think our suggestion would be um 250,500 and then um maybe a thousand for the fifth or more uh response um to escalate that. Um but I know that you guys had and I I think um the mayor Pam has in her notes uh some of the other numbers you guys talked about. So that's why we left it blank is that it was unclear coming out of that work session where you guys wanted to be at and I don't know if Steve had anything any input on that or not.

Uh no input but I can tell you the categories. Um the first two category 2 emergency alarms in 12 months is no fee. Um third category 2 alarm is the first thing we need to decide over 12 months and then there's a fourth and a fifth or more category alarm. So there are three numbers that we're looking for in this And then for clarification, can you um what are the difference between like what designates it a category 2? Because when we talked about it in the work session, we had we had um emergency alarms. It was like excessive alarms and then it was malicious alarms. So

yeah, I I think that we have um just narrowed down and in the in the ordinance we just use the language excessive alarms. I think what you're looking the malicious we'd included an example. I think Steamboat um uses the term malicious alarm. Um in talking through it we we just want to kind of stick with the um uh the excessive alarms. I I don't know. Um we've got a member of the our fire team here um that can talk about the categories, but essentially it's if you have a monitored alarm system um that is either falting and triggering an alarms um that is getting a call out for a response is kind of primarily the types of systems that we're seeing the problems with. And those can be either uh fire or um kind of the classic burglar alarm, false alarms where you have that monitored system. And we're really trying to do there again is get compliance on these so that we have a few chronic um situations in town that we get hit pretty regularly. Um oftentimes that's um on those monitored systems. There's not a lot of verification on the back end. They just if they get the alarm they call that's what they get kind of paid to do. So um there's not verification whether or not that alarm was real or not or to the extent that they can determine if it's real. Certainly, we're never going to charge somebody if we get called out for something that we need to be there for and it's real. That's not the goal here. Um, these are typically because maintenance isn't being done on the systems.

Got it. All right, councelor Smith. Thank you. I I I think I have the question similar to the one I asked on the previous item, but I think the answer is much more complicated when we're talking about care facilities. There's a rel fair fairly finite number, but there must be hundreds of these alarms in town. How do we get the word out? Is it just that first previolation and that's the opportunity?

Yeah, I think that's really going to have to be I I think a couple of things that we're going to do on that. One is that we're going to reach out directly to alarm companies um to make sure they are aware so that they can feed back to their constituents here in town, their clientele. Um in other communities that we have done similar things, I will tell you the alarm companies start taking it pretty seriously pretty fast because their customers really hate getting tickets um and fees charged to them. Um so we've seen pretty good compliance over time in other areas where we've done similar things. Um, Aspen Fire is one of those that we had to do something very similar. Um, so that's kind of the way you get the word out.

So the the primary target group for education is smaller than I thought. It's some it's going to be it's going to be a smaller primary target uh for education. And then obviously we have a great comm's team here. So you know between fire police and and Breeze team with PIO's office, we'll push out information as well on that. try to, you know, but frankly, as with most people, um, the first time you're really going to pay attention is when it comes with a dollar figure. Yeah. Thank you. Hower Townsley,

um, this may be a question for fire, but if I've got a faulty alarm, what's a reasonable time with services that we have around here to get that fixed? If I if I called up tomorrow and said, "Man, I got to get this fixed so I don't get busted." Are we giving people enough time to get it fixed before they I think so. I think there's plenty of local contractors that are available. Um, and that's why we also recommend that we use local contractors and not contractors from the front range that take a little bit longer to get up here for those service calls. Okay. But the services are available so somebody if they want to get it, they can get you.

We also, if you'll remember in the ordinance, we had a a get out of jail free card. If you could show that you got your serviced, you could go to the fire chief and he could um or the public safety chief and he could wave those fees. Okay, great. Counselor Chhatz, thank you. Could you remind us if we have the information the frequency that we're dealing with without the fines and is there a particular concentration going on with a particular alarm company, particular address? Yeah, I can't I can't remember the the numbers, but yeah, there's it 300 plus. Yeah, so

probably 300 plus just for police that we're responding to and I think it's a similar number on the fire side. So 6 to 800 a year. Um so several a week obviously. Uh and I I think it's I don't know this and I hate to single anybody out. I think it's probably every company has some issues. um are there again my experience with working on these before is that uh it's a little bit companies and it's a little bit customers on you know getting these things taken care of. Thank you.

So real quick I'm I'm reading some excerpts from an email from Chief Daryus. Um and this was all information that was presented to us last time we talked about this but just as reminders. Uh so uh this was from October. So year-to date, right? So 10-month period, they responded to 361 alarms, the national standard is 95% reported are false. Um, you know, so you can do do the math there. And then the um the top five offenders um I mean the first at you know 2126 street at 39 false alarms and then I think the next four were all car dealerships at 13 18 10 and 12 false alarms that would have been from um the first 10 months of this Thank you.

Thank you. You're starting starting to sound like Jacob, right? So, any other questions? No. All right. And then, you know, and again, this is not to be punitive. This is to try and like make sure that our resources are being optimized. All right. Anything from the public? No. All right. So, I bring it back to council for a motion.

I'm going to put I'll put some in for discussion. Uh, Mayor Prom, uh, regarding resolution 2025-32 regarding the setting fees for excessive alarms, I would move that we approve the resolution with the following um, fines put into third category two, I would recommend a $500. Um, fourth category number two, a,000 and fifth category, 2500. That should begin the discussion. Thank you. I know [laughter] a little more than what I had. It's all right.

Councelor Tley deter. Thank you. I like those numbers and I second that. Okay.

Um let's open it for discussion. Did you want to No, that's good. Okay. You're on still. Yep. Any discussion? Okay. I have So with that, we don't have a warning. So we don't have like a first. No, first one's free. First one's free. The first two free because you come in after the second one. Show the chief that you have fixed the problem. Okay. You can get away. Okay. So we have So we have one at zero, two at zero, three at 500, four at 500. That's four,000. And then 2500. Okay. So zero zero

500,000 500,000 2500. Okie dokie.

How's the city alarm system? Councelor Smith. Oops. Hold up. I apologize. This may have been explained at the previous discussion. Who gets the money? Does it go to the department? Uh it it would go into the general fund, which is partially supported by Yeah. I mean that's we're support we support both those um Yeah.

All right. So no more comments or discussions I guess an experiment I'm waiting. Oh, sorry. Thank you.

I would, you know, as a comment, by the time you're up to five, there's just no reason for it. Why are we Why are we doing this? So, you know, if there's I just see no problem at all. and somebody comes in here and says, "I've got five false alarms when we go and you had how many the year before that, year before that, and it cost us how much to do this and somebody's not available to go out on another call. Pay the fine. You don't like it, the next one's going to be another 2500." whatsoever.

So, just as a as a data point, uh the worst offender in October after the first couple of gimmies would be at $85,000 right now. Just a data point. I don't know if that's that's a lot of money and I I'm not saying it's not justified either. I'm just throwing it out there as a data point. Your house is on fire. Absolutely. We're not mics aren't on. I'm not offering I'm not offering it with opinion. I'm just saying it's a data point. 30 and it's 36. Yeah. I think

I'm already on going to say I think right now it's with that many the worst offender with that there's clearly no impetus to change the status quo, right? So let's start with something that does that and if it you know we can always look at it again down the road. But I feel like this is a pretty well-established place to start. And really, they have three opportunities also with, you know, I'm sure if they were to come in and say, "This is more complicated than we realized. It's going to take some time to fix this." We're going to work with them, right? But right now, it doesn't feel like maybe we're getting that kind of cooperation. I don't like the word compliance because that feels like heavy-handed. I like cooperation.

I think that's accurate on both those things, right? like and and to put it in perspective, I we do a lot of work with particularly car and mo car and motorcycle dealerships on trying to improve their security, help them out, lighting, fencing, all those things. I um we're going to take you your mic away from you. I'll go higher. Anyway, uh so I you know and I I just leaned over to check in and uh the PD has a a plan for rolling this out and having these conversations. So I'm feeling if you guys want to go there, we're comfortable with it. All right. Any more discussion? Sum, did you have something to say?

Sumar, could you repeat the uh motion again? And I believe you said category 2 500. Could you just put that at category 3500? It's still Yeah. Let me let me help. Let me help. Third category 2 alarm in 12 months was 500. The fourth category 2 alarm in 12 months was a,000 and the fifth or more category 2 in 12 months was 2500. Correct. Thank you. Are we good? Let's call the question. [clears throat]

It passes 6. Thank you. All right, moving on. Ordinance 2025-38, fourth quarter budget amendment. This is a single reading.

Yep. Thank you. Um each year uh during the course of the year we do uh several amendments to our budget for things that were not originally budgeted that you guys have asked us to do, things that have changed a little bit. And this last one in the last meeting of the year, we try to shore up uh to make sure that we don't have any funds or any departments that have gone over budget and um uh set our revised budget as closely as we can for financial reporting purposes. So that's what this is and I think we just need a motion and a second on this one. Councelor Smith, is it okay to ask questions? Um, absolutely.

Um, I see at two points, one in the general fund, one in the water budget. Um, pretty sizable grants that were not received. One for 300,000 in general fund, one for 800,000 to water. What were those supposed to be? Yeah, the one in the general fund was not one, it was several. Um, generally those are state related. Uh, I don't recall exactly what the one from the water fund was. U, we got part of it this year. We'll get the rest of it eventually, but it didn't come in this year. So, we want to reduce our revenue and the uh, corresponding expense. It hasn't actually evaporated. It just didn't arrive.

We don't think it's evaporated, but it it didn't get to us this year. Thank you. Any other questions? Council Schm this is listed as the fifth budget amendment and I have copy of the third but I'm missing the fourth and I can't find it back in any of the previous meetings. Okay, I'm happy to send all of them out to you guys. Thanks. Any further questions? No. All right. So, I think we're at the point where we could entertain a motion. Was it shutter?

Mayor Prom regarding um action ordinance 25-38 fourth quarter budget amendment. I recommend approval. Move to approve. Councelor Tling. I second it. Any further discussion? Call the question. Oh, yeah. How do It's an empty room. This it passes 6.

Thank you. All right. Counselor comments. I'm gonna turn you guys on so I know where everybody goes down the line, but

happy holidays. Uh I think it's been a pretty good year. Um I feel like we've done really good work this year um on the trustees count um trustees council. Um staff has done another wonderful job this year. Thank you for your leadership and thanks for everything. Um, merry Christmas, happy new year, stay safe. See you on the flip side,

Councelor Smith. That was charming and I agree. Thank you. Um, where where are we on the the notion you discussed of periodically, fortnightly or otherwise, getting two council members whatever the latest list of future topics is for council meetings and for work sessions. So, we um have that list together. The plan is um on off councsil weeks. I'm going to send out just kind of updates as I've been doing and I will attach kind of upcoming work session topics. It's a loose list. It's going to change a little bit, but I'll try to remember to attach that every other week.

Marvelous. Thank you. Thank you both for I know you were kind of teaming on that. Excellent. Councelor Counseling, uh I say the same thing. Thanks for the welcoming for the three of us that are new and you know it's been a pleasure to be here and work with everybody and get to know staff and thanks for everything you guys have done. So seems really nice, but then I got some other things to do. So [laughter]

we might you might want to save that at the end. We might want to say I should have maybe gone first. The two things. One, if there's any way that we could, and I don't know if it's out there, but it seems like there's a general perception in the public still that they don't know what's going on across from PetSmart as far as the new hotel. I don't know if there's any way we can get to people or people just don't read it. I know the information is there, but I keep getting people asking me what it is. So, I don't know if there's a way that we can give that another shot to to get that info out there. Uh my other one is kind of something that I've I've looked at a lot from, you know, one of the reasons I wanted to be on council and it was kind of there's there's been a lot of comments and I've had some meetings with people about the the uh Canyon Vista project and the 3.8 million. I think that's another one where if there's anything that we can do to get better information to people that that's a LITC project and we haven't just voted to give $4 million 3.8 $.8 million to a developer to have a regular rental project out there. I think any information the people that I've talked to have been very receptive when you give them a little bit more information like okay this is something different that we don't really have in the city at this point. So I think that would be a place to go. The other piece is that in those conversations and then the other day I I picked up the paper, this is the Aspen Times, I believe, or the Daily News and they talk about the first first paragraph in here says uh the region will likely need about 7,200 new units of affordable housing to de meet demand in the next 10 years. And I think they're including in that not just 7,000 new homes, but there's already been about 4,500 homes. So it's but it's still a really large figure. And I think the figure for Glenwood is something like 1,850 that's in our strategic housing plan. And we've had some good meetings and I've talked to people and I know everybody's kind of looking at this. But something I'd like us to look

at as a council next year is is that really that strategic housing plan that's in there. Is that really where we think Glenwood wants to go and is that where we need to go? And my question would be when somebody says to meet demand is kind of like what is demand and you know is demand somebody somebody says there's demand so we have to do something and I think we need to look at that and and go okay if we build to where we're built out and we hit the 1,850 that's in our strategic housing plan and then we build out to the 7200 that somebody else tells us we need has the problem gone away and I don't my guess is my gut feeling is that no, it won't have gone away. We'll have a worse quality of life. We'll have more traffic. We'll have more issues. And somebody will say we need 5,000 more homes or [clears throat] we need 2,000 more homes. So, I'd like us to look at that. Um I've asked uh council to look at a couple things that maybe we could or couldn't do. Not that what we're doing is is wrong, but do we look at are we getting the best bang for our buck with what we're doing with workforce housing dollars and are we going in a direction that's you know I don't think we're going to solve this problem but are we getting are we moving in a direction that we'd like to move in or are we going you know a somebody came out and said this is what you need to do and so we're doing it. So, I would hope that maybe we can get this and I've talked to Steve about this and maybe getting a work session set up, but I think it's something that we should look at and at least say, you know, okay, if we if we continue doing what we're doing, what is the short-term effect, the long-term effect, the medium effect, where do we go with that? And are we are we doing what we really, you know, are trying to do? Are we just trying to do something and it's it's not accomplishing something? So, I guess those are my my big pieces that let's

I I don't think there's a solution, but I think we can maybe hone in a little bit on are we are we doing the best we can. So that's my my wish for the next year along with world peace. How's your sh

Thank you. And thank you Dave. I wasn't going to comment, but you struck a chord that um council councilman uh Ray brought up recently in meeting and I've been wrestling with for a long time and I appreciate that and I'm going to take part of the burden. But two things, one separate I believe and and now Trent's on board. I believe our um community development department to the ability they can should put out to us and to the public a little more update about what projects have been approved because we got to be careful when we mention them. But once they're approved under construction, it' be helpful if we had talking points and the public did. A lot of it's not buried. It's in the long quarterly report we get from the departments, but that's a lot of pages. It'd be nice to have a concise piece right from comdev that would help us and the public. Second to that, you hit a strong cord. I have I have concern that I think will get remedied. We have merged workforce housing and the housing commission. there's a risk that that merger leads to just the focus on 2C funds and workforce housing where in reality the housing commission should take on a lot of the role and direction that you've talked about in terms of a broader housing strategy working with PNZ and and I also today pulled out the strategic housing report and I'll remind you we've talked about this you guys that are new didn't that report is not a mandate

and it's important that we understand that and keep it in perspective. And my promise to my peers here is I'm going to work up kind of a first round draft about addressing that on a broader basis, sharing it with staff and us so we can deal with those issues on a on a more proactive manner. Thank you,

Counselor Ray. So uh uh for for everybody's information, Trent Trent is working on that sort of things. Steve has approached him based on our conversations to give us uh to be able to give us rational data points and and some semblance for whatever whatever they're able to find as to you know what's the ideal what's the ideal mix of professions and and incomes levels in a in a ideal community. So hopefully we're going to be getting some of that Dave. It's going to it's going to take him a little while but I think I think the perspective is there to look at that direction.

Anybody else? [clears throat]

So on that same topic I would like to say that you know I commend um our two housing coalitions that have been advising us. They have develop kind of devoted most of their energy towards development neutral projects and that's how we've spent the bulk of the 2C funds up to this point. And I think that's directly in relation to the feedback that we've gotten from the community. And so we are as this council and the one before has been very sensitive to that um public sentiment and I commend everybody who's worked on that. And I think that moving forward, I think we'll continue to, you know, focus that way based on, you know, what you said, quality of life. Like there is a fine balance between solving a problem with a solution that fits and one that solves the problem that creates another problem. So, um, I like that we're continuing to reevaluate. There's a lot to be said for looking over things and making sure that you are still heading in the correct direction. So, thank you for that. And then I'm just going to pitch until it happens. Our state of Glenwood Springs that is going to be on January 31st. Um it's going to be kind of a town hall style, not just all of us sitting up lecturing. It's going to be participatory. It's going to be a place where you can give feedback. There's going to be small focus groups. Um I think it's going to be dynamic. I'm very excited about it. I think it's been um something that we've had our sight set on for a while and but a lot of planning went into it to make sure that it's the right thing for what we need to do just that. Gather the information, get the feedback, connect with community and make sure that we are heading in the right direction and continue to do so. So, thank you everybody. Happy New Year. Merry Christmas. Uh city manager.

Uh thank you. A couple things. [clears throat] Um, when somebody emails city council atcogs. us, it goes to everybody. If one of you replies all to that and the co the city council at COGS. Comes up, it will reply to the person that you're replying to. If they are not on city council, but it will not reply to counselors. Also, in that email list, it's not just the seven of you. Carl is on it, I'm on it, Bri is on it, Tim is on it, and Sarah is on it. because sometimes things come up that they need to catch. So sometimes you can think that you've communicated with people. So try not to use city council.co. us. If you send something to me, I'm always hap happy to forward it. Sometimes I don't know if you want me to. So just make a note that says please forward to council. I'm more than happy to do that. Um if

the reason for not having it reply out is

the reason to not hit apply all is that if I push something out to you, it's okay. If one of you then replies all and everybody gets another message, it technically is an illegal meeting. That's the answer to that. Um, okay, a couple of other things. Um, I go out occasionally to meet managers um of businesses here in town that are, you know, employers and that kind of stuff. I went out to meet the Harbor Freight manager uh the other day. [clears throat] Zuk went with me and what he said was interesting. He said that our store is killing it. He said, "We've had the best experience. I've opened a lot of stores and we've had the best experience here. Our parking lot is full. It's two full on Tuesdays when ARC next door to us has an additional discount. There's no parking available on Saturday. They said, you know, we had more than 30 applications for the positions that we put in. We're super happy with all of our employees that we were able to hire. A lot of them were in Glennwood Springs. He just gave a very, you know, sort of, you know, allaround happy to be here um sort of message to me. So, I thought that you guys would appreciate that. signs on Grand Avenue on the south end of town. We have two coming in. One of them is the regular welcome to Glennwood elevation sign or whatever. The other one is a bigger welcome to Glennwood sign similar to what we've got on the north end of town. Um we do have right-of-way clearance from C DOT to do that. Now we are it it's in there's no place in the public rightway to put it. So it's going to be on somebody's p not personal but corporate right ofway. So we're working with somebody out there. Uh, it's one of those things where, you know, we're asking for a favor, they ask something back. I don't know, but [laughter] I think we're about there and we can finally get a sign up on the south end of town. Um, there were two a couple of public comments um that came up this evening. Uh, the first one um had to do with block cameras and I thought that made a lot of sense. We'll set that for a work session hopefully in the second meeting in the first meeting, the only meeting in uh January. On the

second one, there was a complaint um about police and fire. And I just wanted to say that I I get these sometimes. It frequently is from the same handful of people. I always look into them. I'm very familiar with the situation that was described this evening. And I can tell you that I have 100% confidence. I've seen all the body cam footage that was that everybody had that was there. I stand by our police department, our fire department 100% on how they handled that. I don't think that we have any exposure. And you know on that when you see our cops tell them thanks. I mean these guys have been underststaffed and they've been stressed and they're doing a really good job. And I had a meeting with the sergeants and Chris uh Lieutenant Dietrich was there and we had an operational thing that we're working through and I can tell you that those five sergeants and Chris are experienced and they care and they're thoughtful and they got to a good solution and it was team-based and I couldn't be more proud of our police department. Right now they're under the gun a little bit. So when you see them on the street, tell them thanks. They really are trying to represent us, you know, as well as they possibly can. They do a great job. Last uh merry Christmas, happy holidays. I had the opportunity to see the kind of first version of the short state of the city video that we we've put together. Um and it the first thing that strikes you is how many things we got done last year. It's really cool. We kept it to five minutes, but when you guys see that, I think you'll be like, "Wow, we got a lot of good stuff done." The second thing that came through my mind being an insider is all the stuff that's not on that video that we got done. We had a really good year last year. We got a lot done and I'm super psyched to be part of this team going into next year. So, I think council should feel good about what you guys have done. I love what our staff has done. I think we're in a good place. Hope everybody has a good holiday and see you next year.

It looks like we have a maybe a question here. Oops. Oh, no worries. Is there a way when we're talking to Jake with Harbor Freight because I've been surprised how many cars are out in front of them, too. Can we keep track of for a couple months and maybe let us know there's obviously you got Lowe's, Big John's, Harbor Freight, there's probably a couple other that are in there. Are we stealing from one for the other or are we gaining? It would be it'd be interesting to know what that mix is. Okay, we've picked up a lot of tax dollars from here, but we've lost them from here or we've getting more tax dollars. So, I'd be curious if if there's a way he could track that for a couple months and get back to us on it.

Yeah, we try to track some of that. Um, the data doesn't align perfectly or whatever. The reason I take Jacob out sometimes is that, you know, I want to establish him as a resource for, you know, people like Leo at Harbor Freight because along with their point of sale systems, they can sometimes use the data that we can acquire and make better business decisions. But we will, you know, get out to you guys what we can because it is kind of an interesting pattern that happens. And then the other thing that I would just quickly comment on is is uh, you know, I had the opportunity to go along a ride along and I know you did that. Yeah.

And I would anybody that hasn't done it should do it. It was fantastic experience. It was interesting. The guy I went with was somebody I coached in little league so it really made me feel old. [laughter] But on the other hand, it was fantastic experience and hats off. You guys do a great job. reiterate that and um that information that uh councelor Townsley just would that come from retail sales tax collected or where would that how how do we

no we can't we can't really talk too much about retail sales tax collected in specific places that's confidential but what we do have is access to movement patterns in the city so we've got AI place or AI that's our primary tool but we also have information that is gathered by our u tourism DMO so those things together can give us kind of an idea of who's moving where to get a really good idea of the cannibalism, you know, between these stores. That's very difficult um to do. We do our best, but it really is is hard to know. Yeah. Okay. City attorney,

I it's very hard to follow all of that. I I did want to say I thought I thought it has been a good year and you guys were involved in a couple of really big things uh and really big projects going on and one top of mind is obviously the Shosonyi uh the outcome on that which is just huge and has been a longtime city project um so appreciate that deeply. I would mention that um as we go into the holidays we can look forward to the legislative session um which is the most terrifying four months of the year every year. Um, I do feel I spend a lot of time working with the the CAS board and communities and I'm now chairing their housing task force. Uh, what I would say is that a couple of um kind of interesting proposals I think we're going to see in the legislature, I don't know if they're going to make their way through. uh one that got picked up by um CML uh and has found sponsorship in the legislature is around uh vacant homes and authorizing and creating a a delegation um to local communities to be able to identify that as a as a separate tax class. And I raise that only because it is amazing to look at the statistics in our mountain communities. um 30 to 80% of homes are vacant [clears throat] in our mountain resort communities. And when you think about the housing crisis that we just talked about and we think about where, you know, the shortage of of police and fire, um Glennwood is in a pretty good place compared to a lot of those communities. But it is interesting as we think about holistically these problems around housing and what do we do sort of part of what's going on in a very strange economy because of housing costs in the mountains. So anyway, that's one piece of legislation. I think it's going to be interesting to see how that works its way through uh Denver. Um and I also know that the governor is going to try one to run one or two of his signature bills that have been problematic for us. Kind of that top down approach. Last thing I would comment on is I think both um on the

housing um look at uh both the you know likely one of the two Democrats running for governor is going to be governor. Both of them have put out some housing proposals and I think it's important for communities to look at those and get your head wrapped around what they might be thinking about because and whether or not we want to invite them in to talk about that with our community um which I think both candidates are willing to do. I think it's um there again on that housing front holistically I think good things to do. You're probably going to hear a lot from me in the next four months about what's going on in the legislature because it has become uh you know it's going to be constrained. They're going to be looking to cut another billion dollars out of the state budget this year. Um it's going to have material impacts on us. So I think we're need to stay informed and apply pressure uh and encouragement where we can. So thanks. Happy holidays. Um and we'll see you in the new year.

One one other quick thing if I could. Um remember that our next meeting would have fallen on uh New Year's Day. Okay. So we do not have a meeting on January 1st. Our next meeting will be on the 15th of January. So a quick question on that. Um would that information that you're talking about the housing policy information be something that you would share with um our like housing board?

Yeah, I think we share with the housing board also share with you guys. Um, one of the things, you know, I I've been really impressed um with the evolution of CAST as an advocate for us in the mountain communities. We're obviously a member, Glenwood is a member of it. Um, so I think it's something we would share back with them, but it's also there's going to be some real-time stuff that unfortunately I think it's going to be more important to share with you guys because turns out legislators want to hear from other electeds. Um, and it moves pretty quick. So, it may be a little bit of that as well. So, when we see an email from you, pay attention. always [laughter] your own. All right. Looks like maybe councelor Smith has something.

Thank you. Do I assume correctly that this talk about vacant homes and possible tax category is talking about second homes, vacation homes, not like a Detroit situation where they put a category on abandoned home?

Yeah, absolutely. And I and I think, you know, it's interesting because a number of communities, not just in the mountains, are are starting to this is starting to become an issue, right? Um so I think really what the primary goal of the legislation is not um it is to create the authorization um for local communities to designate a class and then we would you know that community would both have to work on how they would define that and then also obviously any tax question has to go to the voters um if if you were going to go that direction or not. This doesn't create a tax or anything like that. that it would simply delegate the authority to create a classification of vacant homes um or local communities, which I think is just a huge thing to allow. Um as a as a home rule community, you have the authority to do that and several home communities are looking at doing that. This would just kind of help assessors understand that um it was authorized and sort of who was responsible for taking care of that. By vacant homes, we mean those that just aren't occupied often, not those that have been abandoned.

Right. Yeah. No, no, that's absolutely because we typically deal with abandoned I I mean, because we're on such a small scale, we typically deal deal with abandoned um and I'm sorry, the the question was just clarifying that when we're talking about abandoned homes, typically we deal with that underneath the building code as a nuisance. what is classified as a nuisance underneath the building code that abandon and and um then underneath the uh the property maintenance code is the other one that we can we can address those situations. This is really about second, third, fourth homes that are simply vacant most of the year for a variety of reasons. Maybe have a property manager. Yeah. council.

Um, the last the last time the state tried to legislate down to home rule communities regarding uh those properties, we were exempted from that as I recall. Whatever the I don't remember exactly what it was, but uh what the state wanted to do didn't jive with what fit in the mountain communities. And I I guess I wonder about home rule contesting issues that are declared to be of statewide interest that may or may not be of statewide interest.

Um we should have a beer and talk about that one um because it's a longer conversation. The short version of that is um the the case law surrounding um the tension between home rural communities which are are constitutionally authorized in Colorado and the authority of the legislature. Um the Colorado Supreme Court has uh appined on a consistent basis that where the legislature makes a defensible finding that it is a matter of state interest that they can legislate for home rule or impose rules or regulations on home rural communities. Um that has been in a number of over the years any number of times challenged on specific legislation. Um, but you will see oftentimes the opening line of a of a new piece of legislation is the legislature finds that this is that this matter is a matter of statewide concern. They'll do some findings to try to back that up. And so that's that tension point. Um, the good news is is that in particular, Den City and County of Denver is home rule and they're most likely the ones that are going to challenge it and they have a much bigger legal budget than we do. They actually have the largest um they are the largest law firm in the state. um is the legal department in city and county of Denver. Um so so anyway that's but that's I mean joking aside that's the tension point between that finding and it has to be legitimate by the legislature that it is a matter of statewide concern um to sort of trump our authority as constitutionally as a home rule community.

Thank you. Any else? No. All right. Um, any correspondence? No, but I do want to apologize to you and Sumar for pulling him away to ask of and happy holidays and uh, happy new year. You all right? Um, you want to announce a social event? Following the meeting, there will be a um council social event occurring at doc holidays.

All right, I think we can adjourn. Oh, yeah. Oh, I don't get to do that. Like so done. Madam Mayor Prom, if I may [laughter] move to ajour. I need a second. Excellent. All in favor? Oh, no. You get it. All in favor? I All right. Now I can go.