Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Okay, great. I'd like to call the order to order the December 15th, 2025 zoning board of appeals, City of Glennfall Zoning Board of Appeals meeting. Um, we have established quorum. Oh, we have one more commissioner making their way up. They'll just take a pause right up here, Matt. Sorry about it. All right, there's a full board here tonight. Wonderful. We have three items on the agenda this evening. The first order of business is the approval of the October 20th, 2025 meeting minutes.

A motion on the floor. Second. All in favor say I. I.

I. Any opposed? All right. Motion carries. Thank you. We did not have a November meeting. So, here we are. Um, we have our first item tonight is area variance 25-00001 Joshua Funk Lei of tax map 3002-12-7-24 commonly known as 26 Terracotta A. The applicant tonight is seeking three distinct area variances. The first is a sideyard setback. Um he's requesting a 1 foot setback where 8t is required. So there he is seeking the applicant seeking 7 ft of relief. The second is a sideyard setback of 6 in requested where I think is actually also is also 8t required there.

No. So one the one where they're going for 6 in 8 ft is required. one where they're going for 1 foot five is required. It's an accessory structure. Okay, we talked about that briefly at the beginning. Okay, so that is a request of um for the first for the sideyard set back of one foot is a 4ft relief. Okay.

And for the sideyard setback of 6 in, it is a seven and a half foot relief. And then we're also requesting an area variance of 2 feet for an 8 foot fence where six a six foot fence is allowed by right. Um is the applicant here tonight? Yes, I am. All right. Could you come and uh tell us a little bit about your project? State your name and address. I guess we know it. Or should I stand? [laughter] Sure. All [clears throat]

right, my name is Josh Funk. I live at 26 Terracotta A Plins Falls. Um, I'm hoping to upgrade my rundown fence from a 6ft fence to an 8ft fence. The 8ft fence is for privacy. Um, there is already an existing 8ft fence in my neighborhood. It's directly across the front of my house. You can see it from my front porch, so it's nothing new. Um, I do have signed letters. Sorry. I do have signed letters from my neighbors saying that they're perfectly fine with the improvement of the fence up to an 8ft fence. Uh they have no qualms and that is to my front neighbor both sides and behind me. Yes. Yep. Across the street.

Yep. That's Rick. He's actually one of my next door neighbors. And that's Nancy and Jim. They're my other side neighbor. Um they're both here to support as well saying that they're okay with it. Um the sideyard variance where I'm requesting a 1T setback for is for a hot tub. Uh so I want to put a hot tub beside my deck, but it's between my deck and the fence. So the fence would block it from my neighbor. They would never see it. It wouldn't interfere with them or anything of that nature. It would just give me access from my deck into the hot tub. So that way I could have the hot tub raised and then not have people accessing it from the sides. They would have to go through the deck to get to it. Um it would just be a convenience thing and honestly just nice for um quality of living. Uh the other setback I'm requesting is for a carport. So my driveway is long and then it extends behind my house where it used to be a garage structure. Tree falling in a long time ago. They tore it down with the slab still there. So, you drive past the house and then you have dual parking back there. It eats up like half my property that's available that's not eaten up by the house already. And my goal is to actually create a green space in the backyard. So, I want to shorten my driveway and cut out that slab area where the garage used to be to have green space, but I have a slate roof. And as everybody knows, a slate roof dumps snow and slate and anything else that's on it right on whatever vehicle is parked next to the house. So I'm either replacing the whole roof or I'm building a little carport over the driveway. Um the biggest issue with building the carport over the driveway is of course it's almost right on the property line like it's close the 6 in set back. Um and then of course the water that would come off of the carport. So, I plan on creating a drainage system away from my neighbor's

property into the backyard so that way he's not affected by all the rain runoff and that way I can reuse the rain run off in the backyard green space. Excuse me. Could you drainage? We'll have that um we'll have time for public comment uh in a moment. Uh we just need that for note takingaking. Thank you. Was there a question about drain heard? You can continue. We'll we'll have questions after.

Okay. Um, so yeah, my intent is to create a drainage system on the carport in the form of a gutter and then run that down into the backyard so that way I can utilize the water for garden, green space, etc. instead of having it run off into my neighbor's property. Um, but those are my three requests. Those are my reasons for the requests and um, happy to answer any questions you guys may have. Do you have a survey? I don't yet. I wanted to see if this was viable before I paid the three grand that I was quoted for a survey. I'm I'm happy to do it because this is something that I want to do, but surveys aren't cheap.

They're not. But if you're proposing to place structures that close to your neighbor's property, you would need to get a survey. No, absolutely. And I would have it fully marked and then I would come in the allotted amount that I'm allowed. It would be hard for us to say you can put a structure here at this size. You know, without the actual dimensions, it's unclear if this would actually fit there.

Honestly, if with the carport specifically, if it turns out that I don't have the width for the carport, then my other option would be to replace my slate roof. So, I do have a backup plan if this one's not viable. But I wanted to see if I could do the carport first and then if you guys approved it, yeah, as long as you stay within these dimensions, stay within the six inches off the property line and obviously I can fit my vehicle underneath of it comfortably, then I would get the survey to verify that everything's correct and do it in proper order working with the building and codes department to make sure everything is kosher. Okay.

You have you reviewed uh percentage of coverage proposed versus existing? Um, so I was talking with building encodes about what was going on there. Um, so I did actually take away a portion of the deck that was rotting off the house as just a demo project, which opened up a percentage available for my property. Um, and then if I'm allowed to do the green space, that would actually open up a lot more of the property as well. Um, but I believe that when we talked about it, I'm still within what was allotted. There's no way this is less than 35%.

The stance for building the codes was that if he added more green space and didn't add any dry any imperous surface that it would be an improvement on the property as proposed. This proposal right here is way over 35%. Well, the car part's over an existing driveway so it wouldn't actually add any more impermeable surface. The only spot that would would be the hot tub and it's 8 by 12. I would say for it you would have to do the green space first. I would say for this proposal to be it would be an in tandem project on on my end. I would want to do them both at the same time because whenever you do the carport I would want a new driveway cuz my driveway is all rooted up and things like that. So it would be all at once.

So the proposal is a couple points. One in this is there's no change proposed for the area of the driveway just in materiality just shortening it. Oh, so okay. Right. So what's the I guess what I would want to know is what's the delta given the plus and plus and the minus where are you today and where will you be for for coverage cuz I know hey let's say I'm 32% I'm going to be 37%. Then that's something that also for variance whatever. Okay. Um so I would be giving up a 25 by 25 pad

into green space from the back of the property. this is now [clears throat] I mean I would say it's proposed to become green space that would have to be part of this so I think there's some sort of like contingencies with what you're talking about like hey we're like I love you know personally for me um I'm very like uh sensitive to drainage onto other people's properties that's like private companies etc. That's one of my things that I look for. So the things you're proposing I think are very sensitive and uh nice considering you're going to be so close. You don't want to then serve your neighbors with water. I for me that would want to be a contingency uh that I would want to ride around for for the acceptance if we go forward. No

just because you're so close I think that that's one of the reasons of setbacks for example. So when you encroach further and closer I think that that's something to uh give give back. No absolutely. Yep. And that's that's why I had it written in there is that is that I wanted to ensure that the drainage wasn't encroaching on him and that I do want to create the green space because a I want him for my own backyard. It's nice. I have a dog. She lives to run around, you know. Um but b that that's currently my parking. So I need to figure out the alternative in order to create the green space. Is this a driveway or is this No. So the driveway is actually right here and it goes back here. Yeah, this is the house. Oh, your house goes up.

Yep, that's the the ridge. It comes off both sides there. Huh. Okay. Oh, I see the trees blocking.

Yeah, he's got and it's just replacing the existing fence as well. Initially I would have agreed with you but considering everybody everybody in their neighbors here defend it. I don't we need to have a discussion for the board not between individual commissioners please. Mhm. Um do commissioners have any questions for the applicant? Any discussion? Are we thinking I'm just going to speak out loud for a second. Are we thinking that we're going to be tableabling this pending him to to get uh a survey and confirm the percentages? If not, change the application to include that for a side variance.

Is it possible to make it contingent on them getting a survey? It would be a condition that's conditional approval and you set the condition subject to permits issued by building codes. So in order for him to get the building permit for the carport or for the hot tub pad, he would have to present a survey to building codes which demarks the exact property. Happy to do that.

In my opinion, that is something that should come in front of the zoning board in this in this application packet. We should be having a survey in a site plan. I don't I don't know if that's I would I wouldn't necessarily say the contingency of that but that it would sit with percentages I think but that's because that's that's in and of itself a variance. So I think that that should be documented to noted that's all just a question clarification. So what what what's the difference in your mind like between him you know the contingent idea of the survey versus him giving it to us

because we don't see it we won't see those dimensions. If you don't see the actual like this, this doesn't have actual dimensions and how I'm where it's laid out on the site. This is drawing without any Do you know the dimensions of your carport that you could tell the board? So, my truck is 22t long. So, I would want a 25 foot long carport. How high?

The it would be within 6 in of the property. So, if I could squeak out 9 or 10 feet, I would like to do the 9 or 10 foot. Um, if it falls short of 9 foot, then I wouldn't do a carport because it wouldn't be feasible to fit the truck himself. Is a carport. You need a building permit for that. Be attached to the principal structure. You need a building permit and signing stamp plans by managing an architect. Yep. We're happy to do all I didn't know. It depends on what's made out of anything over 100 square ft that's attached to your house. You have to get I didn't know that's

So we're being asked to approve something that we don't actually know what the dimensions are going to be. I agree. I'd rather table to get all the actual the actual I mean so what's useful about this for you I would say is you're you're hearing what we're kind of like wanting to know a little bit more. Sure. Um, but I mean from my perspective, I think you've done a lot of things that are sensitive to what happens when you get too close to a neighbor. You also have a lot of good neighbor support for some of the things that we might be concerned about. So you can maybe let them get the information and then get a whole package and be great if everybody shows up or gives a letter. All any of those things are fine. Letters are.

Yeah. Yeah. That so that's to me that's as good as somebody being here personally. Can I ask you a question? Because you were talking about percentages as far as um non-permeable space. Yep. The only addition to the non-permeable space that I'm doing would be where the hot tub is, right? Because the carport's already over driveway and everything. Um so just so if you're getting the green back, you're actually improving upon your net, right? So you could just note that that helps you in your application. He did he did not. No, no, I know. Yeah, but he doesn't have like percentages and things like that noting it. You know what I'm saying? Like it's just it's like mentioned, but it's not in the format that we're looking at percentages and things like that.

No, I mean visually I totally That's why I wanted to see that. Um, I think so with the survey side of things, would you be okay if I put in what my desired dimensions or minimum dimensions, maximum dimensions are instead of doing surveys at the moment? And then if you guys improve it contingent on the survey based on those dimensions, could they move forward like that?

You need the dimensions so you can see what it's going to look like. You're going to get your percentages to see what the non-permeable surface addition would look like. And then as long as the survey comes back and it says, "Yeah, I have that much space," then I do it. If not, then I just replace my roof and nyx the carport. I mean, cuz for me, I got to make sure the carport stays within my property. I have to make sure the drainage goes somewhere proper and I have to make sure my truck fits like a three bottom line pieces, right? And then I'm staying 15 ft back from the roadway so I'm not encroaching on my front setback at all. And then it's just the side setback, but I need to make sure that I have the proper amount of space for my truck,

but I want to get the approval before I drop the three grand on a survey when I not even end up doing it. Yeah. You don't want to spend that and be like, "Hey, by the way, you're looking." Exactly. That was my thought process. Um, to me, it really wasn't that for Karen's point that it is visually it looks like you're improving upon your net area. So, to me, it's just more like putting it down there like, "Hey, look, I'm also going far here. Hey, I'm also I know I'm asking for the variance here. I'm pulling the water in board all that just I I would have the contingency for that for the for the bringing the water inboard. You've already noted it. It would just be you know that for me. But yeah, [clears throat] I mean I have no issue if if this then that approval kind of thing. Sure. I even put a little gutter in the picture.

Those are common. [laughter] It was the best visual I could come up with. else. So, the width of cardboard is going to be less 6 in from the property line, right? As long as it ft could be 9 ft, could be 9 and a quarter, whatever you have 6 in off of that survey line. Exactly. I'll put what a minimum requirement for the vehicle space is going to be. And if it doesn't allot to that with the property line, then don't do it. Yes. Got it. My only question is [snorts] can the can the hot tub be placed somewhere else on the property?

So there's not any other ideal location the way the property is laid out. I'm out back here where just between the blue and the green positive. So that's that's where the walkway from the driveway comes into the back porch area. So then you're either pushing it in like the middle of the backyard.

So I was trying to put it off to the side as much as possible. Kind of just like tuck it away so that way it's not like the focal point when you walk in my backyard. Hey, there's a hot tub in the middle. Like I was trying to avoid that. Um keep it off to the side. I have a gate that goes across right there at the edge of my house that fully fences in the property and everything like that. So, I was hoping to keep it just Can I just ask if your neighbor who is right next to where that uh hot tub would be is present? That's these two right here. No objections. No objections.

Anytime they want [laughter] TMI between your 8 foot I like a little [laughter] It's cool. Yeah. I mean, every single person around that doesn't have a problem with you thinks that might be sensitive to those neighbors. So, one other thing we talk about neighborhood character and it's even I mean, I don't know if it's this sign district, but a lot of the design districts have garage structures go in the backyard and that's you see that a lot of the the neighborhood a lot. This house historically had one. If you're just build, if this is just a single carport,

have you thought about just building a single car garage in the back or a carport in the back? I would need setbacks on both of the back corners and then it would also kill the idea of having a lot of green space. Well, if it's just a single car for a carport, you would get more green space than what you probably have now, but not the entire width of the backyard, which is what I was going for. Okay. But when we talk about area variances, we do need to talk about can this be achieved in some other way that doesn't require I mean I guess that still require variance but it's more in keeping with

um the zoning and how we how our neighborhood is. So on here right where the blue I have across here to come in here and I don't ever have a risk of her getting close. I'm not in any way. It's just my thought process of how I came to percentage. So, you're really customizing this house? Trying to Are you going to stay here? You're a renter that you rent or you I'm in the process of purchasing. Okay. From from the current owner. Oh, she's a Gotcha. Okay.

That makes more sense. Yes. All the home purchase will come before all of the work. Okay. Understood. I'm just trying to make sure. So, all the things that I want to do as [clears throat] a new homeowner. Okay. Great. Any other questions from the commissioners? Okay. Any public comment? No.

As far as survey goes, at one point in time there was a survey done of our properties. Um, Mayor Bart decided to build a house on Douglas Street and John who was a building inspector at the time shut down quick because part of the carport that put on was actually in another person's property. I looked at the designs and I said, "No." So he said, "Nothing's going to happen until there's a survey done." So our places, my place, I believe, uh Josh's place were anchors for when they do the survey. So the city should have some type of survey done on that because of what uh was done.

So you can discuss with the clerk or if you if you know what who the surveyor was that I'm it was so long. I know it's it was so long ago that I can't type the name of the surveyor like you know our property lines. Yeah, it just if if you the surveyors keep that information so you can get a better deal that way. Um but you could check with the clerks you may have a there might there and it's not not there. Yeah. We're always ecstatic when that happens. So, I'm You know what? When you're calling surveyors around here, oh, check and see if they have existing data for your property that they have. And they do not so far. Okay. [laughter]

These are all things that I've been trying to to facilitate for a couple months now. Okay. All right. like right on the land current owner deed would have the square footage and like the marks and the county tax map. It has to exist because because that property survey would it wouldn't have the pin though to find that line. No, but it would be close enough. I mean, if if he's being if the current owner is being assessed close enough,

if we're asking to place a structure six inches from the line, we can't have close enough. There's going to be too close. It's going to be a start of assessed property. You want to make sure you're not somebody else's propert. [clears throat] Well, I felt my property. Yeah, that's a good place. County tax. They came through for some reason.

I just had one.

Okay. Um any other public comment? So, and based on discussion tonight, um this was referred to the Warren County Planning Department and the Warren County Planning Department has noted uh finds that the proposed action has no significant intercom community or countywide impact. With respect to seeker, I would classify this as a type two action under section 615.5 C17 as it's the granting of an area variance for a single family, two family or three family residence. Therefore, no further action is required under seeker.

Sounds good.

Just procedure. Um So based on our information tonight, are we tableabling our report? What's that? Go ahead. Do you want to give a preemptive vote to show approval indication? So that I think that's what it's looking for. I don't

is it's not necessarily a vote official, but he wants to understand our position before he spends money. And then we said, well, we would have said no. No matter what, matter. I think based on the things he's discussed and the proposal, are we in support of this with that in general if it were to come back confirming what his assumptions are? And I think that I think that's legitimate like before you spend a whole bunch of money. And we can't give a formal vote, but are there any commissions that you can give a formal vote if you want to do a conditional approval? Okay. Under the conditions that were outlined earlier. Yeah. So that a survey is done right

and before you know you know the approximate dimensions of the carport 9 or 10 [snorts] ft by 22 and it will be no closer than 6 in to the property line that the green space will be increased and the drainage will go to the backyard and not onto the neighbors. I think those were the conditions. Yeah. Subject to the survey verification and building permits being issued. I'm okay with that. I I mean I I think that's in good faith. We could do that. You're you you're It sounds like that's what you're looking for. Yes. You're agreeable to that?

Yeah. I'm happy to get the survey. I'm happy to provide dimensions, percentages for permeability. Everything you guys are requesting, I'm happy to provide. I just want to know that it's Yep. I would I would request to alter the contingency for the green space that the removal of the slab in the back occurs before construction. That way it's guaranteed that it is going to be removed. Correct. It will absolutely because I got to strip the whole driveway in order to rebuild the driveway to put the car for over the new driveway. So that would be the order of operations. Okay. So you want to add put that to a vote now? conditional vote.

So this will be the this is for the carport um side the setback for the carport the the very which is the 6 in sideyard setback relief where 10 is required is required I'm seeing 10 okay now 8t is on the east and so he's asking for 7 ft 7 in relief and uh thanks as well so [snorts] we're not we We haven't even discussed the pension. These are three different area variances. Okay. I thought you were summarizing all the variances. We're talking about the singular one. Okay. All right. Three different votes. Okay.

There are three different area variances. Yes. Okay. I don't think you've ever we haven't even discussed the other two. Okay. Can we stop with the side discussion? If you'd like to make a motion, please go ahead. I'll make a motion to for a conditional vote for the area for the setback. Is it a conditional vote or are we making a motion with these conditions? It's a motion. It's a mo It's a a motion with conditions. A motion for approval subject to the following conditions just on the side sideyard on the east side. Right. There's three different variances. That's what we're talking about. the carport request right now.

Correct. These are that is the request of these conditions. If Anton would like to make a motion, please do so. I'm making a motion for the conditional vote for approval of the of the proposition with these conditions met. Okay. So, we have a motion on the floor for an approval of the sideyard setback for the carport if the conditions listed previously listed. Do we have a second? I'll second it. Okay. All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Okay. Motion carries. We also have the aside setback for request for one foot where five is sorry. I'm sorry.

Yes. Five ft is required. This is for the hot tub. So, we're asking for a 4 foot relief on this. Do we have any questions for the applicant? Okay. Any public comment on this? No. Okay. Just a quick clarify question. So, so all those conditions are for that one variance. These other ones just straight or this this one we're discussing now is just straight no conditions. Yeah. I mean, unless there are like this that would be tied to the uh survey also. all of a sudden property right

I would think all of the conditions that you listed apply to all three varian okay sure then we'll just a motion to the floor I'll make a motion okay um all in favor say I I

I All right. And we have a third variance that that's the we're asking for an 8ft fence where 6t is allowed by right. So this is an area variance of 2 ft. For me, this would be a point that I'd be sensitive to, but given he's got literally, no offense, it seems like you have every single person around you that seems to and you have one that's existing in your area. Generally, I'm sensitive to this, but everybody seems to have absolutely no problem with it. So, for me, that says a lot.

I'd much rather see a six fence than I agree. We've approved far too many fences. That's true. Have really have, you know, step by, thousand cuts with fences. really impacting them. Can I make one comment before you guys decide? So, the reason that I want an 8 foot fence is because when you're standing in your first floor of your house, because all the houses on my street have elevated foundations and they all have the 4ft up front porch and all that kind of stuff, from your front window, you could see directly over my sixft fence. Mhm.

Almost up to the fence line. And that is why I was seeking 8ft fence. It's a small lot. I was hoping for some privacy. That's why I did have my neighbors get back up. Yeah, my yard is like in the back one to two feet higher than this. So, it's like a 4ft. So, 6 foot would be

my my property is the low spot. So, it's like all of my perimeter neighbors can see directly over the 6t existing fence. So, I was hoping to get the 8ft fence in order to get some privacy. I know in town and it's privacy is not really a thing a thing but I was that's why I was hoping for the eight but just I I I don't disagree at all with like we probably have done too many um probably have voted for some myself but I I I guess I would suggest maybe this might be one where it makes sense um but again understanding there's okay just because of this specific circumstance I I mean, my my neighbor is I don't live in your board, but I live in the fourth fifth board. So, I mean, my neighbors are

right on top of me, too. So, I understand what you're saying. You're thinking it's going to further establish precedence, further. Correct. Maybe create walls and barriers where we're trying to create it a little more open. Point speaking for you. Thank you. My problem is the eight foot that's just the front 8 to 10 ft that runs parallel to the front sidewalk. Um I'm not a big fan.

So it is set back from the sidewalk a good 8 to 10 ft and there is shrugy already in front. Okay. Um that allows it to have a better aesthetic image. Um, and the neighbor directly across the street, I do have a sign letter from him as well, saying that they have no issues with it, but it's just that small stretch. Um, the neighbors behind me have a pool, so it grant them privacy as well because then I wouldn't be able to see down into their backyard. Um, and then both of these guys have already stated they're happy with it as well. and it would be brand new nice wooden fence. Uh whereas it's currently run down. Are you replacing it regardless? It's six or eight.

Yeah, just being keeping real. [laughter] That's all. Well, it's a matter of replacing the one really bad side or replacing the entirety. And I'm hoping to replace the entirety. Uh even even if it was replace all but that one front section, I'd be okay with that. just mainly the sides just because you know we can see up top. Does it make procedurally? Does it make sense to make a motion? Um I'll make a motion to grant variance. Second. Okay. All in favor say I. I.

Opposed? No. What's your account there? It does not pass. You need four for approval. So the fence variance was denied. Fence variance have been denied. Um but your side setback for two variances been approved um with conditions. Um so you can see Devon and the the building and codes as early as tomorrow to talk through. Okay. Thank you very

much. Okay. All right. Our second item on the agenda tonight is area variance 25-0018. Andrea Harwood, owner of tax map number 309.28-6-5, commonly known as 16 School Street. The applicant seeking an area variance from relief for a density requirement which has a requirement of one What is it, Deon? 25 square ft for each unit. There is currently a 4unit multif family dwelling. The applicant seeks to convert this to a five unit multif family dwelling. And is the applicant here this evening?

Yes. Please come and tell us a little about your project.

Uh so my name is Andrea Harland. Uh, and this would be turning a 4unit property into a five-unit property. The changes would be very little because the first floor is currently a large three-bedroom um one unit and I would be turning that into two one-bedroom units. So, it sounds like um I would be adding a lot. I would not be adding a lot. In fact, the the number of humans living there would remain the same. So, um it would actually be very little change. It would be um improving upon the property. It's a It's a beautiful old 1920s Victorian property with this beautiful staircase going up. Um I'm I'm already talking to contractors and um I'm going to be keeping the the old, you know, the molding and a lot of that. And so um that's my request, turn it into a fine unit, provide good housing for more people in our wonderful little town.

What is the square footage of the two? Um downstairs is around 1500 square feet. So it'll be roughly half each. Okay. Give or take. Not much. It would be about 750. Any questions from the board? Do you have parking space? I don't. So, my next step after this, I would be going before the planning, but this is my step one.

There is the Clinton Avenue garage directly across the street. There's Elm Street parking, and there's an empty lot that I'm currently in talks with. I would love to get my hands on. So, there's parking options. I don't I don't want to expand parking on the property. It's a beautiful property. Um, it has a little bit of green space, some hedges, and I don't want to disturb that cuz it's it's it's pretty as it is. How many parking spaces do you have today? One. I've got a question for you. Yes. You've run into the parking issues forward.

Would it uh be a terrible inconvenience to run this by the planning board first and then uh come back and ask for your variances. I don't mind the inconvenience. Um I was advised by people with wire sympathy to check with the ZBA first. I don't mind going before the plan anymore. I'm just trying to do it in the proper order for people smarter than you. I think this would be required. Yeah, so you already there already are four units with and they exist with one parking one parking spot. So adding if there aren't more people you really probably it's the same

one 1.5 y per unit is required. Yeah, but she clearly this unit is existing with one parking spot already with this number of people. So I don't know that from our perspective will impact it. Um yes, you'll need you'll need more parking because it's per unit, not per number of occupants total, but I understand your point that they're well over deficient whatever existing and parking is planning board. So what's that? Parking is planning board.

Yeah. Any discussion or questions from the board? Yeah. Changing the macro of the building into gut interior.

Anything Do you have any comments from the public here tonight? Could you state your name and address? Yeah. Uh Jim Hume. Um I own 72 South Street, which is right next to the empty lot. And I believe is that the lot you're talking about for parking or Yes. So I'm eyeballing that lot. [clears throat] Correct. I'd love to have a conversation. Okay. Yes. Cuz to enter that property, you have to go on my property. Are you the big one or the little one? We're we're bastard resto bar. Mhm. Oh, you're okay. Great. Okay.

So, right. And in the deed there is a we have to maintain um 10 or 10 ft on our driveway to start with to access that part uh that area. Okay. And I believe in that too that we also had like two parking spots or something. I'm not sure. Um, yeah, I'd love to talk to you about it, too, [laughter] because I've been eyeing the property, too. The city owns it. The city owns a a small one and then right next to it.

Yeah. And then right next to it is another one. So, it's like thirds. Two/3s one guy, one third the city, give or take, would you say? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And the city's been very gracious to us to let us use that back empty spot. used to be a house there to park our vehicles for the workers. So because there's not a lot of parking around there for customers.

What can are you recently Have you recently bought that or have you had it for a while? That helps. I've had it for a short while and now I'm at the now I'm moving forward on renovating it and making it really nice. Yeah. And I I would love to see it with people in it. I don't like an empty house there, you know. It's a nice looking property, isn't it? With the hedges and the corner. It's very cool. Thank you. Anybody else?

Okay. No referrals. No, it was not referred to Warren County Planning. Uh, with respect to CE seeker, I would classify this again as a type two action under section 617.5 C17. It's the granting of an area variant for a single family to or multifamily residence.

Sure. I'll make motion to grant the area variance for relief from the density requirement to convert this property for unit 4 multif family to a 5 unit. I'll second that. All in favor say I. I opposed. Motion carries. Next up everyone.

All right. Last item tonight we have area variance 25-000019. Sean Mahade Madeo owner of tax file number 302-16-4-26 commonly known as five road map. Tonight, the applicants represented by Ethan Hall of the University of Hall Architecture. Um, applicants seeking variances to construct a single family dwelling with a rear yard setback at 8 ft, a sideyard setback at 6'2 in and a 6' 6. Oh, okay. Two side setbacks. 6'2 in and 6' 6 in. 7 ft required on both sides.

8 ft required. And then what's [clears throat] the the backyard is rear yard is 25 right there. 25 is required for the rear yard. I'm sorry back.

Okay. Good evening. For your record, my name is Ethi Hall architecture. With me tonight is Sean Mahio, the owner of the property at 5 Logan Avenue. Um, this is the property that used to be the old wallpaper barn. If anybody's been here as long as I have, you remember that big red barn that used to sit right across the street from the school.

Yep. That's the one. And that occupied pretty much all of the lot at the time. Uh, it has since been torn down. And Sean is looking to put up a a building here uh that [clears throat] would be basically a carriage house that's got garage space underneath and an apartment over the top of the p of the back portion of the building. Uh there would be a couple of garage doors that are going to face Logan Avenue. Um we are looking to get a couple of area variances for sideyard. Um the sideyard setbacks are 8 ft. As you said, we're looking for 6'2 on the north side and 6'6 on the south side. Uh the rear property set back is 25 ft which is required and we're looking for 8 ft on the closest corner and we're 15 ft 9 in on the back corner. Um there are going to be a couple of uh eve trenches that run along the sides of the building which will collect the rain water. We're going to put a dry well up front and permeable pavement so that we can absorb the water get into the ground. the restaurants are going to face the street.

Yes.

Just a a quick question for you. Is there any um way to sort of as far as like the house side, it's you take obviously you're going a lot into the rear. Is there any way to sort of just frankly shrink it so that it doesn't you don't need as much of it like that? This this is what Sean has asked me to put together. So can can we make it smaller? It if it's smaller, it won't hit the needs of what he's looking for for being able to put he has a big truck with a trailer. U the equipment was sitting on the lot. the city asked him to take this take [snorts] the equipment off the lot that she's done. There's nothing there now. Um he just needs a place to get the equipment inside which is what and in addition to storing your truck.

It's a residential truck. It's not like a dump truck. No, it's like a Denali like it's a brand new truck and it's a utility trailer. And would the second floor be used for residential? Yeah. Okay. That's right. Okay. Your trailer will fit inside. Yeah. Just a utility trailer. It's 6x12. Yeah. It's not like a dumb trailer to move it. Uh yeah, they they told me that um before I bought it, there used to be like trucks marked on it recently. Yeah. They made me leave my trailer and everything was all grass right there. So that's why

my biggest concern about this density my biggest concern about the density of this propo proposal you're addressing pretty aggressively with trenching and storage. I mean that's about as much you can do more permeable in the front with pavers given what you're doing and asking that's the best you can ask for in relatively speaking in response to that. So I appreciate that. I'm I'm going to just say it's it's it's pretty tight. like it is taking up a lot, but it is a small lot and you want,

you know, it is what it is. I'm just speaking candly of the pros and the cons. That's all. Um, in in looking back at it in time historically, I think the barn that was on there before went pretty much right to the top. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty plus or minus. Yeah. I tried to go back and find an aerial photo. Aerial photos go back as far as 2009 and it was still empty at that point. I couldn't find anything prior to that. I don't know exactly when the full gen.

Do you have any information from your neighbors about that? Not that you're going to really be impacting the fact that you're doing the trenching to bring the water out. So that's very sensitive. I appreciate that. But I don't know if there is that.

I was going to say I I live at 27 Sanford Street. So I am across the street from him basically in where I live. Um it's there's a storm drain and every time it rains really really heavily weak to show here. Sorry. Um every time um every time it rains you get a puddle that's at least this deep already in front of my house. So the storm drainage the storm water drainage through our neighborhood is already um maxed out. In fact they tried a couple of years ago to try to repair that. they could only come so far because they couldn't get the variance to get through on one of the side streets to get into the back lot where they own um 27R Sanford behind us. So, you add more drainage into that and it's going to still have to drain out into gauge street and it's still going to end up in all of the the drainage and it's still it's going to add extra water to a system that's already very very uh

strain. Thank you. Yeah. And may I add since I I live at 10, but my back I have a backyard I'm Debbie Lone Katie. Sorry.

Um I have a backyard that's not too big, but then I own I border 11 properties in the back. And so my backyard has an address at 27R Sanford behind John. So in 1988, the city came through Gage Avenue with heavy equipment and uh built a crush stone road through an entire 27R Sanford. Laid down storm sewer pipes that are huge. I have two large vaults with manhole covers in my yard and the neighbor on the other side has one or two in theirs and it goes out to um Chester Street where you probably board you probably know all about by Pete Taylor's house but what happens is can I get up and show you here because I think it's going to change your mind of wanting to do this. Um, so the storm sewer pipes come through from my backyard at 27 added

this is this is the commercial space that's so Sanford Street is out here. Sanford Street. Okay. So I'm trying to the school is here.

Okay. So as this comes through my yard and it does flood about every July 3rd or 4th of rain. We've canoed in my backyard and so this the city storm sewer drains are through there. It feeds Halfway Brook. There used to be a river there in my backyard and feed fish as the kids. So the water table is extremely high and when the storm sewer pipes were put in, the city wanted to come through a second time and do it again. And we said no. It was torn up for almost two years in my backyard. So now what happens by John's house it's right on this corner where you want to this is loading so where am I here this is the corner

this is this is the commercial this is the commercial is here okay so the school is there so right here is where it floods and there are already storm sewer pipes there's one big null cover in John's driveway and it floods and it goes under the corner of the old Siri graphics right through by where Frasier's Payton paper was and out to Bay Street Cemetery. So you wanting to put a dig that up and put a dry well in there. I You're going to hit storm sewer pipes that are owned by the city

and you're going to show up. They don't show they are there. You go down to the water department, you will find that whole map through them. We talked to them already. Yeah. Well, get some information on that for you, but you better do it. Yes. And the other thing, they were the first ones we went to. Actually, the other thing is right now on Sanford Street is so bad at either 8:00 or 3:00 because of school and I know most of the time, but we have a lot of congestion. So, it's it is really difficult to get out. on the road. You have to go that way.

It goes this way. So it comes here. But it does it does impede him. Well, let's Okay. So that the property owner, he can make his own decision about whether or not the traffic is too much for him there. Well, the traffic's too much for the neighbors. But it's a single family resident. You're talking one vehicle. I mean, we're not talking 50 vehicles. We're talking one. You said apartment. No, it's one. You said apartment. Is there is it a one family residence in our one? Two. It's two bedrooms. Two bedrooms is apartment above the garage.

It's a residential unit above a garage. Is that his residential unit? It's a single family residence on a single family. A carriage house which is allowed use in the in the zone. It's okay. Is it is it zoned for light commercial? It's not like commercial. It's not like commercial. This is a residential unit in a residential area for a single family residential application. There's no change in that. I R1B for occupancy. Is this public comment period? Sure. I suppose so. Yes.

I'm Brian Bford 26 Sanford Street. I live on the lake as well. Anybody in the water department knows me. The current mayor, the mayor elect, [snorts] we're well, we're very good. Um, what he's proposing,

24 Sanford Street, the building that houses the barber shop and all that stuff. I had to sell property so that the guy could buy it. He's literally on a postage stand. There's no room between him and me now on Ogden Street. There's an apartment house. It's also right on top of me. Now, he wants to build a building right on top of me above my 6 foot fence. He's going to be looking right in. He's right on top of me. I've got two other properties right on top of me already. The drainage, like they said, is ridiculous. Um, I've already got people right on top of me where he's he's going to be raised. He's going to be looking right. you know, that six foot fence is ineffective at that point except for keeping my dog around. Um, he doesn't meet any of the criteria for zoning. None of it. And all you're doing is setting precedence to Hey, anything goes.

I will make the the decisions we make today do not set a precedence. We don't we don't set legal precedence with our decisions. We This is a The gentleman has an application here that we're reviewing and we've got neighbors all around. Okay. We're all here for this one purpose. Okay. And we're opposed. Okay. So, you're I just rather you speak for yourself behind it. Okay. No offense. I I mean, you spoke for yourself. Yep. And I appreciate

you're you're absolutely uh within your rights to speak as a neighbor and it does impact you and I appreciate that. Just don't speak for everybody. Just keep I'm talking for just myself. It's it's it's ridiculous. I mean, the property the size of the building on that property. No. I mean, not not to mention 20, by the way, my name's John New. I live at 27th Central. Straight off. I think I said that where he's proposing too right now. If you go over and look at the lots, there's already a seven almost 8ft snowbank. Give it another five snow snowstorms. Where is the school going to put the snow? Where's he gonna put that snow? Not his. Okay. Well, where's he gonna put the snow?

That's That's a legitimate question. So, on your but if it's a residential lot, it's not like he's plowing his backyard like that. Actually, he's extremely small amount of snow he's going to be taking. Can I talk? Okay. My name is Shel Dugen. I live at 20. I received the notice. I need to have you on camera if you go. If you could come up near the front so we can be on camera. Thank you.

Um, so I received Miss Mahado's request for variances to construct the single family dwelling at 5 Avenue. The lot does not meet any of the requirements for the lot size, the width, the coverage or yard measurements as listed in the city of Falls home. the lot is significantly smaller than the 75 square foot minimum and he is asking for an 8ft backyard allowance when the minimum required is 25 ft but I'm that the city of Blissf Falls created these codes to protect the neighborhoods and to ensure that everyone could live comfortably in the community and of course that was going to say the same thing it sets in the precedent if these things are allowed I mean it just is a very small Um, and so if he if he puts that unit in and that's it, it's got the garage underneath and then you've got an apartment

higher. How isn't there like a a 35 foot limit for less than it's a tight squeeze? That's for sure. It it is. I think they're trying to I think they're trying to make do with a a difficult lot. Mhm. And they're addressing the challenges of the water by keeping it on and keeping a storage unit on the on the area that is actually permanent. The lot the the driveway is actually proposed as semi-permanent. Right.

Right. So I I appreciate all of your I mean this is my only concern really is regarding you are you are being you are look it's both sides of the same coin is that you're you've got a negative situation that you're a very dense situation where you're building something in a tight lot and you're closer to your neighbors and then the thing that they're doing to address that is they're trying to pull the water away from the neighbors and bring it up to the front in the area. I'm not selling anything here. I'm just saying what I'm looking at. Although it is what they're asking for, they are also making significant moves to address that as well. It's all I can say.

Um selling right on top of me. What's that? I just don't need another property right on top of me. So your object on top of me that's elevated. So would your objection also be you don't want anything built there regardless? I had no problem with the Frasers who own the paint wallpaper store. So single single store is where you're looking at. Absolutely. That's not a limit. Really? Okay. Was there parking with that? See where I live? No. With that wallpaper over there? No. So that's they wouldn't they wouldn't be able to meet any requirements.

That's why we're here. All of us are for the same reason.

Unfortunately, the city is experiencing an issue with housing. I'm sure you guys are aware of that. So, we we're trying to trying to find a balance here between accommodating housing need which is again significant and um you know there's comprehensive plan going on outside of this room where discussion about zoning and density is very very active. Well, we've got eight of the neighbors, right? I fully understand understand what he's asking for. He's, you know, he's asking for the setbacks, but as far as the structure that he's looking to build, that is within the zoning uh criteria. So, that's allowable. Um, too much.

What I'm curious about is u you know, how small this lot is. Um, what about the parking lot next door? How that schools have schools approached about why there aren't any wells in that entire parking lot? Wells. Yeah. Dry wells. Dry wells. Schools. If your if your public system isn't pulling the water properly, then a dry well would minimize the flash flooding effect. He's proposing to pull the water. Have you guys approached the school about it? Given the drainage. Yeah. I mean, that's a massive parking lot and there's not a single drywall on that parking lot. So,

we've got storms pipes running through. But a large portion of this conversation that that has been brought to the record has been about storm water runoff. And this park lot here is I don't know, visually speaking, four times larger than this lot here. Not a single drywall. If we were to follow that line of reason, there would be no more development in the city. Exactly. That's where I'm going at. You know, it's it's you're basically saying of straight flat top, nonp permeable. Yeah. You have a giant island that's leaking all that water off.

And although he will have some for sure, um it's not nearly the problem of what your other is. And I'm I'm just saying, you know, they're doing something lot and the amount of permeability is taken off the off of the lot, it'll actually be comparatively negative negligible compared to what's next door. Years ago, before paint the paint paper store was there, they processed gold. Is it just now? What about the uh environmental impact? They use acid process. Excavate all that.

That's a decision the gentleman who owns the property. I mean it was connecting area project 25 years ago. Yeah. We're sympathetic that. There's like two buildings right on top of saying

the rules say you can't do let's stick with the rules there's another carriage house well you know arguably the rules say he can build a house if he gets variances too shouldn't be grand too big that's why we're Can I a question for for the option of two? Is there any way like in thinking of some of the comments about sort of um view or you know having up there like anybody that's sort of doing any screening or anything that that might help with with the need that's a very dense area as it is. He needs windows. No legal windows.

I'm just asking we have we have egress requirements that we have to meet. We have egress requirements that we have to meet from bedrooms. Um, you know, his he's got he's got windows that are on this side. We have stairwell over here. There's one window in the in the living area.

I know you have another question. Oh, hi. Sure. My name is Matt. Can you come up that way? Sorry. Just I can't ask her to sit down. She has something really nice. I'm a sexist. Um, my name is Matt Gib. kind of live at two Monroe Street which is right here sort of the corner to this lot. Um I was just wondering if there was a design of the building cuz um with how dense it is. I think all of us deal with snow from each other hitting our fences hitting each other's cars. Um it's a real thing. This is a shallow pitch with a with a asphalt sh

612 is that is that pitch

with how close it is to the property property line would that be what's the temperature of that house? anything ice or any other be falling into the neighbor's yard on that on that shallow pitch snow's not coming off that not as what's the problem cuz the the main concern for me was also the drainage that I wanted to bring up that others have as well it's a real problem the mayor has been there the mayor left has been there it's a real issue it's hard to say how much one additional home would impact that issue that's already existing.

Can I ask a question? If if this um the height I mean school was a city school, but there's supposed to be drywalls there, why would that have been addressed years ago? Um I don't know that there were supposed to be. We just it was just a question of whether or not they had been approached about it. Anything like that. And some of the schools have done green infrastructure projects. I mean, I'm looking at the map here at 26 Sanford. I mean, the entire thing is big. Absolutely. That clearly exceeds lockers. Who's 26 Sanford?

I I don't know, but just I'm just I'm trying to get a good understanding of the the issues with drainage. Yeah. I [snorts] mean, that's Did I don't know if they got a variance. I don't remember saying that my time here since 20 been there 39 years say

the point I'm getting at there's a lot more issues this guy's trying to do it the right way multiple properties here that it doesn't fit when you say it doesn't fit you mean what you can only have certain percentage your house can only be a certain percentage of the property he thinks it and he's overlooking And you know, this guy was talking about a 10ft fence. I've got a 6T or an 8ft fence. It's a like a twotory or story and a half, whatever he wants to call it, right on my right on my fence line. So, the setback variance that he's asking for

is a result of making really a usable residence. It's small. It's two bedrooms. Um, it's not some grand palatial, you know. Do you have space to put trees in the back? No. There's 8t. There's 8 ft back there. There is a fence that's falling down. I'm willing to make it look a little nicer. And you could also put these screening trees that can go. So the the allowed lot coverage in the Sony district is 35%. The proposed is 44.8%. That's less than a 10%.

Yeah, agreed. With and with that said, they're already making moves to to deal with that. I I understand everyone's perspectives. I get it. Mhm.

I'm not trying to not be in, you know, in insensitive to your your uh thoughts and I don't think he is doing anything. If he were appropriately set back at the same elevation, your objections would be the same and yet he wouldn't need a a a variance that the height and all that and the use. It is a residential area. He is it is a residential application. There are twotory residences right around there.

So, I don't think those those characteristics make it not in keeping with the neighborhood. I do think it is a lot on a small scale, but I think that these are small lots period. This is so what was there was a commercial business with 90% lot coverage right in a residential area, right? actually improving. That's where I'm right. That's what you're trying to say, right? Well, I'm getting there. Okay. [laughter] I don't mind the kickstart for fine. I just think that, you know, I said that from the very beginning that it's a lot on a little and at the same time, you're doing pretty much the things that you can do

to minimize that impact. A non-conforming lot if you [snorts] were to to meet all the standards, it'd be an unusable lot. If you you have one store, you'd have a one car. You couldn't have two car. like you shrink that anyway. That's it. No more two car. That's it. It's it's just that you look at uh Jefferson Street, you look at Ogden Street, you look all around and everything. Those homes have become two families of rentals. I mean Jefferson, one of them is like four. They're they're parking on the grass and everything. So our quality of life keeps diminishing. He's going to have his he's going to have his truck inside. You're not allowed to park on the grass. So please call build their new codes when you see that. Yes.

Yeah. [laughter] But but you know I mean it's just looking at the our quality of you know [clears throat] the the city changing and and and I realized that everybody has a lot of cars now where they park and I mean to his point he's going to have his cars hidden. They're going to be inside that that that that garage door in his trailer. Yeah. You're not going to see anything.

I understand. I understand, but but look at ours. We've been I've been there for 45 years and I've seen all these changes and and it's Glenn's Falls and I love Glenn Falls, but it uh it's changing and um it's just becoming more congested and more apartment buildings are absent. I was into my gentleman for him to live in. This is a resial. We're adding a new person to our community in our community regardless if they're renters or home owners. I don't know manufacturing plant put in your backyard.

I don't know when the the last time was that that lot or even that corner was residential. I mean, you've had a lot. We've had Siri graphics and then the little logs and uh nail place, but it's so we're sure that it is a residential corner right there. It's in the residential zoning district. Yes, it's an R1B meaning the use that we're discussing right now is absolutely in keeping with the zoned use.

And if Yeah. And you have one trailer. You say it doesn't matter if he has 10. This is a single family res.

He can put it wherever he wants. That's not what this is about. There it's But if he's going to park it on Logan, what he's asking for is not going to drastically change the character of the neighborhood. I agree. It is. is within his right to come and ask for the setback variances because he can build a home on that lot. Correct. There are homes I am looking at on this map right now that exceed lot coverage. I mean it's not even hard to see whether it's through a straight black top or an entire home. The the home on the corner of Sanford and Monroe that was built in. I mean beautiful home. Beautiful home. Don't get me wrong. It was built in 1927.

We seem to be pitching like this is what's causing it all when it's not. So a lot of the things that we have to look at, they don't really rise to the level of us having to say, "No, this is this is a no-go here." I I really think it's going to boost up your your neighborhood. It's an empty lot and and the use of it is in keeping with what your area is residential. You're not having a nail salon. not having something like that that's all permeable with a parking lot. I mean, I mean, even his parking area that he's proposing is permanent and holds the water. So, he's actually helping, not hurting in that regard.

One of the criteria that we have to look at is if this is a self-imposed issue that he has and given the lot size, this is not self-imposed. So, literally by the letter of the code, we can't actually hold that against him. We have to look at that and say, "Nope. He's good to go here with that criteria. Changing the character of the neighborhood. That is also one of the criteria we have to consider here and he is not changing the character of the neighborhood. And in fact, there is an argument to be made that given what was there previously which was brought on record, right? Uh the the the wallpaper place, this [clears throat] isn't an improvement.

We we were brought on it was brought to record that there was a concern about lock coverage, freezers, paint, glass. It has to do with drain issues and that was there before and it just so happens that right now it is empty, but that's not what was there.

They closed at 5:00. There was no windows under my back. There was no I I recognize the your your how you feel about this. I do. I am sympathetic to it. But what we have to consider here, they're two different things. They're different things. It's different criteria in the in the in the code. It is different criteria that we have to consider and who's meeting that criteria. It's going to add to the congestion. School buses have the schools the school has been closed and there's less there's less traffic now since Sanford Street School closed. It's not closed.

It's not a full-time school like it used to be. They're don't they don't have full enrollment there like they used to be. It is it is less vehicle traffic than there was 10 years ago. Lined up almost to Sanford Street in the morning. 23 buses. This gentleman bus. Do you want me to do Seeker? Yes. With respect to seeker, I would classify this as a type two action under 617.57. It's the granting of an area variance for a single family, two family or multif family residence. Therefore, no further action is required by the board.

Yeah, we're good. We have a motion to approve variance of area variance 250019. We're seeking area variances to construct a single family dwelling with a rear yard setback of 8 ft, sideyard setback at 6'2 in, and a sideyard setback of 6' 6 in respectively. We also are seeking relief from the maximum lock coverage threshold. Second. Okay. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Check in with building. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Love you. Okay, and that is the end of our agenda. I have a motion to second. All in favor? All right, everyone. Happy holidays. See you next month in the new year.