Commissioners - public_hearing

and then took over the toy company from his parents. But he told her that her crush was considered a hard crush, and that there was a softer crush, and the leader was an actor.

So he said there's no reason why that happened.

Yeah, I know, probably.

Walk around here.

Ready? Right. good afternoon Commission Tammy Robinson finance director this is our fifth budget work session I have the developmental worksheet in front of you as we spoke about in the past this page provides you the expenditures for the general fund by department as well as transfers that go into other funds and appropriations and And then at the bottom, we have debt service, capital improvement, county facilities, special bridge, economic development, and health department. All of them except debt service receive a transfer in from the general, so it affects the ad valorem. And then the second page gives you your budgeted revenue on the left. Expenditures are carried over onto this page. And then we look at the value of the mill and calculating the expenditures to the revenue that's available It shows you what our ad valorem needs are. At this point in time, we have adjusted that. So from the last work session on Tuesday, we have an additional decrease of .942. And that took us from 61.904 to 60.962. This equates to an additional decrease in the ad valorem tax needs of $311,204. appropriations decreased an additional 141,500. The transfer to economic development was affected because of the appropriation adjustments by 23,000. And then in those changes being made, the NRP and delinquency is also adjusted and that decreased an additional 6,431. Revenues were adjusted on the budget worksheet to include an additional $40,000 to the PILT funding, $10,000 for franchise fees, an additional $10,000 for the medical transfer to the general fund due to that increased charge that the treasurer's office now put in place, and $50,000 for administration fees to agency funds that we provide services for. Additionally, the request of a schedule change from 37 and a half hours to a 40-hour workweek and one of the apartments was removed, which saved 30,272. So all of those changes, that was the effect that we see. That leaves us still 4.661 above last year's levy. And concerning the revenue neutral mill rate, we are over by 7.181 mills from last year.

We are.

We are. We are. We are.

Okay, sorry.

Good idea.

So where would you like to go? I'm sorry, I lost my mind.

No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yes. $2.3 million over what last year is after the cuts we've already made.

No, over revenue neutral.

Revenue neutral.

It's $2 million over, just over $2 million from the... $2.37 million? No, that's the revenue neutral.

Yeah, so that's $2 million over what we taxed last year, correct?

$2 million.

From revenue neutral, yes. From revenue neutral is what we taxed last year. That's what I was trying to say.

Right. From revenue neutral, that is where we're at. But from where we began, that's where we're down. We were originally, I think, at 21 and so. Yes.

My point is, we've already trimmed a lot of stuff, and we're still $2.3 million over what we had.

It was $3.1 million, I think, was our difference when we started, if I remember correctly. Yeah. $3.4 million. $3 million, $4.14, $6.35 is where we started. So we've decreased one point So just as a reminder, the final day to notify the County Clerk of the intent to exceed revenue neutral is Monday, July 20th. If you're comfortable with these numbers being the highest that we would intend to exceed revenue neutral, we can provide these numbers to the clerk. Or if you want to look at additional cuts today, we can do that as well.

I think, well, we can wait until Commissioner Asher gets in. That would be my preference, is go through the session to see if there's any additional cuts we can make. Otherwise, then we would just stay We're going to go over that way we at least can buy some time to see what other adjustments need to be because we have until October 15th, right?

october 1st october 1st to actually finalize the budget but we have to have we have to notice our uh our hearing our budget hearing notice and then we have to hold the hearing before that and then i would have to have time to finish up the documents so in order to meet all those timelines we are going to have to do this uh you're going to have to have everything finalized by the end of august okay so my preference would be that commissioner asher be here so we can make that decision

towards the end of our session.

A couple other things to keep in mind because we do have the special districts that we also have the requirement to provide the R&R. And so when you're looking at that right now, the fire district is over by 1.172 bills and we can notify the clerk again with that number as long as you're comfortable knowing that you will go no higher than that but you could still go lower and the other one is the library that's over it's going to get a little noisy i'm going to close this door most of the way okay yeah i think so yeah Then the library is also over. You did decrease from 130 to 125 on their appropriation. And even with that decrease, we're still over by .131, which would still require us to send out the notices and hold the R&R hearing. again if you're if you're uh comfortable with those numbers we can give it to the clerk as it is with the special districts and again i thought the library was going to come in today but i don't see her here today because i had reached out to her just to give her a heads up because she said she needed to talk to her board and let them know and be aware i told her that she could come in today and ask some questions or provide additional information if she needed to.

Well, again, I think that both of those we could wait until towards the end of the session to tell Commissioner Ashworth.

Okay, what would you like from me while we're waiting?

Did he call Keith or did he say he was going to be late? He had a doctor's appointment.

Well, you sent us some information to go on over some of those in the... because I've been digging as much as I can. I think I've scratched the dirt as much as I can. I don't know where else. I had heard you mentioned to Keith, and you sent out that other documentation. On these, is there any of this actual versus the budget, you know, some of these that you said that were, they weren't necessarily actual carryovers, but, you know, these funds that had some monies left over, and they're, they don't go into play in any way.

They go in as part of the carryover cash. So, I mean, they do come into play, but not for the specific department. So it comes in as a total back in against our ad valorem needs. So that's what the, uh, if you look at this page here, right here where it says unencumbered cash balance general, that's $6,183,000 that we're bringing forward. That's part of those dollars. The general services. Well, it's from all of them. Anybody that any of the departments that were over, that's what this number looks like.

This amount was $7,350,000. And that difference was, that's not the cash.

That's just the carry. That's just the difference.

Well, they should be the same numbers from the actual first. That's 25.

The number you're looking at is what I'm anticipating coming back in in 27. So that 7 million is the 25 number, which is right here. You can see the 7 million, 324. That's right there. But this one is what... our crystal ball is telling me is going to be at the end of 26. And so when you're looking at that, I have a worksheet here that shows you your cash. So when you look at cash, this is how I anticipate what we would expect to come in to this year's budget. So our ending cash in 2025, which is our beginning cash for 2026, is that $10,162,382. And that sounds really good. But of that $10 million, $2.2 million is our reserves. And then in addition to that, if you go back to that worksheet I just showed you, this $7 million, that's in 2026. we're anticipating to spend 7 million of that 10. So when you look at 7 million plus the 2.2 million, that's 9.2, and it's actually 7.3. So that's 9.5 of this cash that's coming in. So if you take 9.5 away from that 10.1, we have $600,000 that is working towards the 27 budget. That's it. because we're expecting to spend $7 million of that in 26. We put it in as working capital for the 26 budget. So you can't count that as what we expect to go into 27. So that's where that cash comes from. And then when you look at the ad valorem tax and the other revenue for 26, The 24 million is what I'm estimating to come back in and that's just based off what we had on revenue and collections that we've seen year to date on 26 so far. Then on your expenditures, I'm expecting about 92% of our budget to be spent once you take out that budget stabilization. so that's what that equates to in the expenditure line item which does not include appropriations and transfers we intend to spend every dollar of the appropriations that you approved and we intend to spend every dollar that you said we could transfer out so those are 100 if you look at that page where i showed you 25 budget to actual when you take out that budget stabilization and you take out that budget amendment that we did, we spent 93.33% of our overall budget. So that's even higher than this 92% that I'm putting in. So there's a possibility that we'll spend more than what I've even anticipated here. So with that, your total expenditures are anticipated to be around 28 million. So that's where we get that 6 million that's left. And of that 6 million, 2.2 million is your budget stabilization. So right off the top of that 6 million, you're not gonna spend the 2.2 million. Or that's our plan unless something of an emergency state happens.

Again, looking over this, you know, we just don't have a lot of options to, you know, keep going back to cut or revenue coming in, you know, besides the, you know, if we're charging some additional fees or however we want to structure that, I guess that'll be a work in progress as well. Great.

So I remember we talked about 1% of the COLA was about $150,000. Sorry. So, because I do want to take care of employees, but we might have to take into account things. If we give them their step pay in January and their COLA next July, that be a hundred thousand dollars are you talking about taking the full two percent out of there or just one give them their step oh no the two give them the whole two but not until july so you don't want to give them so then you're going to wait to give them one percent for the year so

you might as well just give them 1% for the year and not wait until July to do it, because it'll be the exact same number.

Yeah, but they'll get a higher raise, which will in turn help their capers in their retirement, because they'll be making more. But if you do a 1% for the entire year, they'll have 1% for the entire year, but they'll still, in the long run, get more money if we do two at that time.

So why don't you just do 1% for the whole year instead of 2% in the middle of the year? Because it's the same thing. It'll be the same number. In the long run, it would. Yeah, it would. 1% for the 12 months versus 2% for six months is the same number. Yeah, but then they'll be making more money at the end of the year. And then when they get another raise, it'll turn out to be the same number as it would be at the beginning of the year if it was 1%.

Yeah, for the whole year, they're going to get the same amount of a raise. But in the long run, their rate will be higher because they'll be making more money. with a 2% raise.

No. But if you do it at 1% at the beginning of the year, you're still going to have that same number at the end of the year.

For the year of 2026, that they're still going to be making more money because they're getting a 2% raise just in the middle of the year. Am I not? Am I not? Maybe I'm not explaining it right.

I understand what you're saying. So I think what she's saying is if we keep it at 2% and do it in July, then when in 2028, that's If we get, let's say, a merit raise. It's the same if you get 1% for 12 months or 2% for 6 months. She's talking about not just the amount of money, but building. If my salary, for example, is raised 2%, then when it's going to be raised 3% the next January, it's building off of that percentage.

No, because if you have 1% for the whole year, your ending is still going to be The same.

Your annual income would be the same. But I think what you're saying is then your hourly rate will be higher.

So you're not going to lose anything on your benefit. Your hourly rate will show it's higher. You will get the same amount of money for the year of 2026-7. But at the end of the year, you're going to be making more than you would have been if you didn't get that other 1%.

If we calculate those based on annual income, it wouldn't make any difference. If we do it off the hourly rate, It could show differently.

And I agree with that. And I'm thinking of what your total dollars is. So when you're looking at papers or anything like that, it goes off your total. It doesn't go off your hourly rate. But I mean, if you're looking at the next year and your wage rate is higher, then next year's wages are going to be higher.

Yeah, I mean, that was the question I was trying to take. You're building on. You're building on. You're just only doing it for six months instead of a year.

I mean, you could do it.

Maybe that's something we could create. Maybe that's something that we could put down. Because I think that would be $150,000 right there.

But it's going to cost you next year. I mean, and we've talked about this. You can do whatever you want this year to get where you want to be. but the implications of the fall. And that's the thing. So every time when you guys come back and say it's gonna be a better year next year, and I keep telling you, well, it's not because these are the things we did last year that affects this year. This is gonna affect that because you're now going to increase those wages when you took it out of the budget this year. And now you have to make up that difference next year. So it's going to actually be a double whammy next year because of that. And if you want to do that, we certainly can do it. But I just need you to know that when we go to budget next year, the things we didn't do this year, like the reserve transfer or this COLA thing where we've adjusted and increased wages, it will be like a 27th pay period by increasing that extra.

And what does a step, we don't know what a step

on average so i mean i think it's great to get out of the box like that that is a really good thing but it's just that you have to remember the implication is going to meet you next year not this year and because the step increments are three percent then you don't want to say one and a half because that's going to mess up the structure well no the cold is fine because

but you know what if everybody didn't get to move up a step?

Yeah, that would mess up the whole. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

And you can't change the pay scale unless you, I mean, you can, I shouldn't say you can't, you can, but then you change everything about what you've put into the plan.

Right. Cause I, like you, I don't think our, uh, our pay isn't necessarily where for log departments where they're at, they're struggling hiring people or like the treasurer just lost somebody that she just hired because of pay. And we just can't, can't keep doing that. We want to keep what we have.

I wish I could give you a, but I mean, you know, literally when you're looking at us being over last year's number, We had unfilled vacancies before that were $1.1 million easily. And if you count two departments that are big, it was more like $2.1 million. So right there is your difference because we don't have that carryover now. We've cut the positions. We've saved the taxpayers' dollars of that money. And that's a good thing. but then you have to make up that difference that you no longer have in that carryover cash, which is what we're at.

It's kind of aggravating because it is an inflation of that number that you use. I know that that wasn't the intent or whatever, but when you have that much money, And like you said, that we were going to use and then they didn't use it because those positions were done away with or not filled. But that's an awful lot then to put us in a position, like you said, kind of going into the next year. And that's where we're at with the majority of that. It is. It is.

But it's also us not funding CIP because, you know, there's 650 we're doing this year. And our reserves, we went ahead and cut it back again. So for two years, it's helped us. But if we install the whole amount next year, that's 150 that you have to increase right off the bat next year's budget.

I guess you budget. You better be as lean as you can and not do too much over because the reflection is going to continue on in the next year. And I think that our departments have done a very good job of it this last year because I've seen in the past I think they were a bit inflated, but I think that looking at them this year, I think they've done a good job in keeping.

Well, I mean, if you go back to 25 and you see that we spent 93.33% of our budget, there's probably not very many counties in Kansas that spend 93% of their budget. Well, that's what I'm saying.

The last couple of years, I think that, well, not even a couple of years, I know several years back, that probably was happening, but I think they've kept it to be pretty lame and true to what it was.

Some of those positions we cut, they hadn't been for probably 10 years. We've been taxing the taxpayer, but not hiring anybody for 10 years.

And it's not even that, right? So those monies were sitting there and now instead of continuing to do that same thing, you use those monies so that you're not overtaxing the taxpayers. I mean, that's what you did, but we've done it. We've used those monies and now we have to get back to ground zero. And that's what this year is about is the things that we did last year so that we could manage that 27th pay period. now have to be adjusted for in this year or else you push them down the road later. But at some point you have to deal with it. or you have to be willing to cut CIP, cut building maintenance, cut people getting their road aloft.

I'm not in favor and I hope that I'm not willing to cut services or what we have in place for county services because we appreciate all of you that have come today. citizens of Gary County want their taxes to be reduced. And unfortunately, you know, we're in that place that we're having to make some hard cuts at this point in the game. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, when you look at all the core services, then, you know, that's what we have to look at other places and where the pot of money is, and it's with our outside agencies. And that's why, you know, we've been looking and trying to be as frugal and not impactful um because you know like we all said we all belong or go to all these activities and things in our community so it's hard because that's an important position to make decisions but at the end of the day do you want your roads kept up and all that or do you want to be able it's this one or the other and it's this hard place so again i hope everybody that's in attendance understands the position we're in and i appreciate you being here and we'll let you make your comments and whatever because it's just uh it's it's a hard hard decisions to be made so well and one other thing just to remember you know we had our tax cell at the end of 25 and so those monies were in the bank at that point but

we're not going to have those. I mean, you know, because we've been behind on those and we're catching up with it, those dollars that we collected this past year, we won't keep collecting either. So, you know, that's going to be something that may hurt us next year too, because some of this carry over cash that I'm expecting includes those dollars. We aren't going to see those distributions. What do we put in for the PILT money?

We put it in at 60.

Okay, 60.

As you said, too, when I was looking initially at those numbers, I was watching Riley County, and they did what you were talking about, and they're just using 50.

To put in their PILT? Yeah, to put in.

That's another number that used to be pretty large. Sherry, I hate to put you in the position to ask, but, you know, those federal flood money, the taxes we get from the state in July, do you recall what we got last year? It was $31,000. $31,000. Yeah, yeah. Tammy, that was what you asked me about yesterday.

It was $31,000. $31,000.

Well, I guess one more thing to note, too, our valuation, $330,000. That's what we capture with one mil. And when you look at some of our other counties, I mean, that number is very low. And we have 400 square miles, and not all of those capture revenue. I mean, we have tax exempt. We know of at least 20%, and I know you're still looking at that number to make sure that's... accurate so when you look at what's tax exempt 400 square miles 330 000 value we have less businesses here than our neighboring counties or our competitive counties as far as the same size when you look at all those factors it makes it hard because we still have the same expenses as our competitors but there's one miami county that's down by johnson county they're 700,000 for a mill and they're, they have less population than us. It's close, but it's less. And so, you know, you look at that and they might, they might say they have 30 mills, but when you look at the dollars, they're asking for the same dollars that we are. That's why that mill is so misleading because you have to understand what the value of that mill is. So yeah, Riley County, if they have 35 mills and their value is 900 some thousand, well, they're still asking. I mean, they're asking for like double what ours are, which you would expect because our population is double. And that makes sense, but when you look at 35 mils versus R-60, people think that that looks bad and that's not necessarily what you should be looking at. You have to look at what dollars are levied. You have to look at what's available in mileage to collect those dollars from, what's not tax exempt, what is tax exempt. There's so many factors that go into that and sometimes people get such tunnel vision

on what that mill number says that they don't understand that they're what that really is made up of so those are important things to to be aware of when you make decisions too probably she has anything to add on that then we find some anomalies like a nuclear power plant right and jeffers energy center right so so they can there's a tremendous amount of value they're capturing through residential right non-normal properties so they can have much lower some of that's these outside things that we just don't have access to and then like you talked about the exempt i mean out of the exact percent like seven percent of gary county is underwater you know what i mean it can never be developed it can never capture true value from that even though we have fort riley of florida sport of engineer ground allowed around the lake just so much of the county that i have access to well and and travis making that point about water uh being underwater

that PILT money. So we get 60 to 80,000. That makes up our difference for taxes. But that's what we get to try to help offset that. That's not even close. That is adequate for those purposes. And then we haven't even talked about our unfunded mandates and all the things that we have to kick in that the state requires us to do and does not help fund. And all of those things make it so very difficult to keep providing quality services and not raise taxes. It's just, it's pretty much impossible if you want to keep services. And I guess if we're quiet, I can hear you all.

You know, with this EDC monies too, I keep going back to that, but we're still in kind of what I still would... I'd like to entertain consideration for that as well as, and are we having conversation with the juvenile detention center as well? And we're gonna meet tomorrow with them. So I guess in that sense, you know, going over, presenting as going over the revenue neutral rate at this time, those factors, we can keep our fingers crossed that maybe So those, because like I said, I don't know how we could figure out, because Commissioner Giordano, you had mentioned too, you know, about cutting them. You weren't interested, and I don't necessarily either. But, you know, I don't know how we need to think about, do we want to just leave it at that? that amount because we know that what was spent was probably significantly more than what they probably would spend in the future but it's another one of those what ifs because i i just got highlighted here things we still got kind of outstanding on here because i i asked him also the other day both the mac and the um the chamber and um you know, about, you know, their budgets in the sense and, you know, their job descriptions, how do they come up with, you know, Mac making X mountain and the chamber making the director's mountain. And I guess I wasn't even thinking in the sense that, you know, they don't really have any guidance as far as, you know, since it's a public entity that they, you know, so how does... you know, with the EDC director, you know, with those monies, is it just a term, how do you determine that, you know, amount again, when we have to use budget, you know, and I know ours is just a portion, but again, I, you know, that's just, I keep following on that number and I, you know, in the same way with the detention center and for those that are, in the audience here, I think they need to understand, too, some of these numbers that are on our list are numbers we don't have absolutely any control of. It's like the juvenile detention, the EMS. What else was there, Tammy? The EMS.

Well, I mean, even when you're looking at your Flint Hills Metropolitan Planning Organization, the Regional Council, and the leadership program, if you want to participate, that's the cost period. There's no getting around that. It's either you get out of the program and you lose out the potential on grant dollars and leadership programs, or that's what you pay based on population. I mean, those are your main ones. But Junction City EMS and your juvenile detention center are the ones that they provide you the number, and there's just not a whole lot of fluctuation. There's none on EMS, and we're talking to the detention agency to see if there's any on theirs.

Well, they didn't seem to think that just briefly visiting with them, you know, that there was necessarily, because, you know, that's by formula and however between those. But I said, surely you're not necessarily tied to that amount. I mean, if the county don't have the money, they don't have the money. So how can they, you know, because I know Ottawa County, had an issue with that last year and actually some in Saline County. So, you know, again, I don't know if it's time to, you know, we're at the point where they're all kind of in the midst of the year with other stuff that probably needs to be done, being done for the next year, you know, if we're talking that way. because those are a couple of the big ones that we just absolutely don't necessarily have any control over.

Well, I mean, when we did the agreement with EMS, our county taxpayers were very adamant they wanted the services no matter what, at whatever cost, no matter what. And so, you know, it took us a long time to get where we were, and this is the number that we're at.

Well, all of these, like I said, all of these are worthy projects. And we went down and quality of life issues and all this other things that we had to deal with, quality of life, how many people are being impacted, the cost and the value to Gary County for our citizens. And once again, you can't necessarily do that because everybody has a different opinion. you know, important to church for the bus may not be important to me. And I want, you know, with the opera house or something else. So it is just hard. And that's why when I initially started, I said, I think that we probably need to cut them straight across the board at the same amount. But then when you go through and do that, the number impacted to me does make a bigger difference in making that decision.

Well, and I mean, sales tax is a good thing to just point out, especially for the people in the audience, because they may not be aware, but when you're looking at our sales tax for 2025, with this being put on the screen here, so for 2025, The county has a general fund sales tax of 1%. We also have a quarter cent sales tax that goes against our hospital debt. But of that 1% general fund sales tax, the dollars that were collected in 2025 was $7,010,690. By statute, we are required to share those funds with the cities. So when you look at that, even though the county has that 1% sales tax in place, right here in this middle, it shows you of that 7 million, the county only retains almost 3.3 million, which is 46.64% of that total 7 million. Junction City gets 3.47 million, which is almost 50%. Milford gets 0.71% at 50,000 and Grandview gets 220,000 at 3.14%. So although we collect 7 million, the only thing that helps us on is that 3.2 million. We don't get, we don't see those other dollars other than to receive them and pass them on to the other cities. When you look at the city and this is good information and there's nothing against the city in doing this, but they have their own sales tax in place. They get to keep 100% of their sales tax. And in addition to that, they also get three point, almost 3.5 million from us. So, Junction City received almost 11.5 million in sales tax in 2025, plus 3.5 million of ours. Gary County retained not quite 3.3 million. That's a big difference. So when you're looking at revenue streams, just right there, you can see how much healthier the city can be because of all the sales tax that they get to use against our budget and what the county gets is that three million you didn't send us that form did you yeah i sent it at the beginning of the year when i did it but i just think it's good information for people to realize it is you know and it's in our packets that are available for people to pick up and out of the website for to shop local and how much different in in during covid when people were forced to shop local how much

more tax revenue, the city and the county actually took in. I guess people were, that's all you can, you know. And I know you can't buy everything here in Junction City, but, you know, when people make an effort to try to spend their money local, that in turn helps our... And those monies are divided up by population, too.

So, you know, in all fairness, you know, I guess in saying that the numbers the way they are, you know, that's... how the formula is.

It is, but when you look at, I know exactly what you're seeing it as a whole, you're saying, you know, so your county's 28 million and the city is 25, but we give 50% of those dollars to the 25 million where we are serving 28 million.

Well, it might be another, um, legislative thing to, uh, you know, something to go, you know, they have kind of legislation for it to, you know, they haven't talked about that at KC.

yeah well yeah and i mean the the point i'm making in that is just think of the ems contract right so we're paying ems contract so 3.2 million is what we can use towards that contract and the rest of those if it's paid by the city you have 11.5 million that they just get without sharing with anybody else so when you look at that it seems like again the percentage of how we allocate is maybe not the best allocation but it comes from the state it's a statute we have no choice but to follow the statutes and this is how it works but it's definitely not a benefit to the county in serving the entire county i don't know what um you know even with uh when does the quarter set in for the city

I don't know their deadlines.

Oh, they do? We posted on it maybe 40 years ago. Oh, yeah. I was just wondering if that was a 10-year deal.

Well, I know our, you know, and I've asked you about that before. I thought the sales tax revenue looked a little lame to me. But, you know, because in the past, and when I was doing it, I don't know if Sherry still continues to do that. You know, from 94 to wherever I'm at, In 2017, I kept that data and I was looking, you know, in the time when it, the only time it was decreased was in actually, you know, 96, 97, when the troops left and the town was desolate then, it had went down 10.28%. And then again, in 2002, it went down 2.6. Otherwise, it had gone down, I guess, 2015, 1.34, but otherwise it was a pretty hefty, you know, every year there was a good size increase. So, you know, I would almost feel comfortable with bumping that up a little bit at that.

We can do that. We did it last year. And again, just remember when you do that and you get too aggressive with your revenues, the next year you're carry over cash.

The same thing with the salaries, if you're saying 50,000, we put 70 in.

I mean, that's where it has to be about being consistent because if you go and you make all these changes and you have to recalibrate the next year, then you're getting nowhere in the future.

It's just that's the thing.

At some point, if we can stay consistent in what we're doing and not always do these highs and lows, you're going to see this taper off, so you're not going to see these big increases. But if we continue to do these big changes, then every year you're going to be fighting that. What did you put down for sales tax? It's $2.5 million is what we have in for just the general sales tax. I mean, the money that's going into the debt is not a levied amount anymore because we don't need to levy any. That's something we got rid of. It is the levy for the debt because of the sales tax being healthy enough to pay that and not put it on property tax.

This is a dumb question. Is the sales tax rate set by statute or something or can that be adjusted?

Sales tax to state, they've got six and a half and then, you know,

But like the county's 1%. We have to pass.

You have to go to borders. Yeah. So that's why we got the 1.25 for the city and a quarter cent for the hospital. And then we have just the one. That's what I thought. You know, maybe if we could up the annual of the county. But, you know, that has to go before.

Yeah, I don't think we're going to pass. We are the highest around. But they're right behind us.

We said John Michael marked the other day. yeah yeah nine four five and something else and it was actually yeah whatever that was and the blue light district down where the discovery center is higher walmart is all higher in that area but i mean they're normal this is they're right behind us i mean everybody's catching up there as part of county but you know but I guess those two areas again we're kind of holding out on is the EDC then and juvenile detention center and again I don't know how and your conversation with her them you know you know I don't know what how much when they say that it's you know state you know by formula or whatever I don't know where your

your arguments can be as to what they're going to offer up to cut because you know how does that work well i mean you know that was one of the questions that we asked was what you're carrying cash balance because that carrying cash balance also makes an effect on you know if you are just showing expenses and asking for the difference between the two that doesn't really give us the whole picture and so those are the things that we're looking at and we'll be talking about but That's also a formalized document that they created with a previous person on the board. So I don't think that you would be necessarily bound by that. That's something that could be adjusted. I don't know what the contract says, so I could be misspeaking on that. That's a Betsy question. But that's not a statutory thing.

I've got that, because I did ask for my stop debt agreement and the formula. I do have that.

Yeah, Robert Reese from Pott County created that long time ago. And so, I mean, that's not something that's a statute. So where are we at?

Are we, you know, those two things that, you know, I don't think they could be in substantial amounts, but, you know, right now, you know, we've cut some, but I'm not satisfied with where we're at as far as. where we're at so I think it's it we need to continue to look and that being said Tammy I don't know for those you know we certainly want you to have enough you know an opportunity to to speak not that we'll get into necessarily back and forth but I you know I want you came you're obviously and I wish people would come from the when you know I'm here hear what we have to listen to and then be able to make that decision. But you're obviously, you know, representatives of some of these agencies. And like I said, you know, that sitting in these chairs, you know, they're hard because we participate in community activities and, you know, it's tough, but I want you to have the opportunity to speak. So whoever, if you're here to speak, you certainly are welcome to. you're just here to feel sorry for us and pat us on the back or kick us out the door we'll wait closer to the end of the meeting but i i you know i just appreciate you you know until one and you know being the treasure for a number of years i i wasn't necessarily involved in this part of it but um And Mr. Asher has said it too. He said this is one of the toughest budgets that he's ever had to do. And I don't know if you'll say the same, but that's what he had said. And I said, well, it figures it's my doing it. But nonetheless, if you listen and you participate in some of the conversations and you hear how we come to this determination, i keep saying all the time i wish there was more community participation to give us insight you know one way or another because we you know we we go with what the information that we're given and try to make the best best decisions and you know people as you all know they they want their taxes cut i do too we're all in agreement we want the taxes cut but just try to do that it's not you know not necessarily the same as doing your own because it's tough so you just want to just hear to listen to where because i work again we're not necessarily uh making any decisions i think you know we were just here again to go over what we've done and we go over and uh, mull over these and give what we think. And then she takes it and gives, comes back and then presents the numbers to us, see where we're at. Cause we thought we did pretty hefty cuts the other day. So when she sent us out, I was like, you gotta be kidding me. Cause I thought we were going to be able to say we're done, but you know, it just seems like they're just, um, Can you tell us what is causing this tightness and what has happened?

Is it cost of living on all the departments? Is it lack of coming in revenue? I can't really see those numbers. They're too far away. But what is it that's causing the budget to be this tight? I think people are part of their taxes being high.

And we give a lot of money to appropriations compared to any other county around us. We probably give the most appropriations of almost any county around us.

I think we give $4 million in Riley County S2 or something like that.

And so we have to start cutting back on something and those are the ones that are the first to get cut because they're not a requirement by the city or the county. Our requirement is the services. Do we want to help everybody? Yes, we do, but we're not going to be able to continue to help the way we have been.

We did that survey last year at the beginning, and again, it was interesting, but I think we all agreed what we're going to see, and it validated what we thought, because what is important to the senior center you know, they don't want senior center, they don't want main street, they don't want library, but on the other hand, then, you know, and you, you could almost see the age, age groups because then, then, you know, it just was categorized in, you know, cause what, you know, what same way with schools, but you know, if you've got young kids in schools, then I'm all for funding schools, but then, you know, why do I have to pay for the opera house? I never go there. And that's just, you know, we've got them sitting back there and that was the general, but you got, if you're on social media or if you watch TV, That's what it's all about is cutting taxes. And, you know, I know if we don't cut taxes, you know, then I just, I think that, you know, in being a treasurer for a number of years, Sherry passed it on to Sherry. She has to live with that. But, you know, you listen to people, senior citizen, it just breaks your heart when they, you know, come in and they give you their $700 monthly allotment to pay their taxes. That's sad. I got a lot of bags of coffee candy for listening and making arrangements with them. Maybe Sherry does the same thing that, you know, you just, you know, people come in. I think we need to be in, you know, in a lot of our makeup of our community is senior citizens. You know, we just, you know, if you look at our makeup, so, you know, again, we just, we're trying to do the quality of life stuff. You want to do things for the kids and all that, but, um,

It's just, it's very, very hard.

Ginger, I think, oh, I was just going to say, you presented, sent some information and we're going over that.

Can I come up here? Sure.

Ginger Koefer, I work for the Gary Cunnington Extension Office, and we have also Renee Reed, she's one of my coworkers. Beryl Ann Power is our board chair, and then Susan Jefferson is also on our board. I have to leave at 4, because we have our public fashion review tonight, so fair is coming. We just wanted to, you know, we understand you're in a tough spot, but we just thought we'd come and say our piece, and then you can take that and do what you want with it. We are under the understanding anyway that the extension program has always been provided like a space for office, and then all of the things that go along with that. in kind by the county, which we've always really appreciated. We were completely blindsided by the fact that the amount was going to be taken away and then our budget dropped by that much or potentially we would pay rents or whichever way we went with that. And that really didn't allow us to even think about how we could absorb that, what we could do, just a complete blindside. And the budget that we did submit this year, I would say, was completely cut down to as far as we could cut it, where we took every line item down as far as we could. The only one we raised a little bit was salary, and we try to absorb most of that. Just like you, we want to keep our employees, too. So we try to put a little bit in there for salary to keep them there. We also know that After we submitted our budget, we were told that our benefits are probably going up about 16%. So that's another bit of money that we know we're going to have to absorb. So we were already real concerned about our budget. And then we got the notification that we were going to be cut $40,000. And that was a lot of money to anyone. And without that $40,000, I would say we will be cutting a position. We will be decreasing what we can do for the people of Gary County. And I know we talked to you about the things that we do, and you've always been very appreciative of all that we provide to the county. So just to know that, we would hope you would reconsider that so we can continue to serve the people of Gary County the way that we have been. And I think Renee has some things maybe she could add to that too.

Sure. So I'm Renee Rady. Thank you, Ginger. Ginger, as you guys know, this is kind of a tough time for us. the fair times were like shit open enrollment for me. So, um, I think, um, again, just want to thank you all. Um, I did have the chance, uh, ginger got that email at four 50 last night. And so gender and I were in the office till eight o'clock at least, and probably didn't sleep either of us slept much, just trying to figure out, of course, as you said, like we all have our passions, right. And I, I also work with those senior citizens. In fact, I, I had someone who gave me a call. and said, I don't know what to do about those taxes. And she just wasn't going to pay it. And I said, do you realize this is your most valuable asset you have? I walked over with her, whoever, I don't know who I talked to that day, but they were so nice. And she's just like, I don't know what I would have done because she didn't know that she could make payments. And so as you talk about services, even though we're not under, you know, we, we think of ourselves as part of you, right? Because you, we do, we provide those services here. And so I guess, um, you know, Ginger didn't talk about numbers much. You do see our reports. Sometimes that's not right in front of you, but you know, our contacts are pretty close to 5,000 in a year. And so I guess I would just like to know, um, what would you like us to cut and in terms of, uh, programming because if we lose a staff person, programming goes. And, you know, we know that across the state folks have, have given their voice. We have a program development committee. We have a board who kind of helps guide us, but you folks aren't on our board. And so we need to know, I need to know when folks are coming in and saying, well, why aren't you doing this anymore? We already get those things. Right. And right now, if we use attrition, that means we don't get an ag agent. So how do we, we're open to suggestions i mean like ginger said we haven't had a lot of time to think about this really but um you know as we looked at kind of your considerations and rent and those sort of things like if we if we took care of um cleaning our office for 9 500 could you give that back to us because we can do that you know help us to know what we can do in order to keep our folks and we don't even know if we'll be able to even We have interviews, an interview date set up in September, but it may not fill because we can't offer, even if we could do that and we cut someone else, we just don't know. We just haven't had a lot of time to process this, I guess.

And I appreciate that. I really do. And just so everybody knows, your department is the only one by statute that the county is mandated to fund. So this is, I feel, important. It is that that's a requirement of our counties to fund your your your department So we're we're open to ideas of what we know what we know what I Would not have a problem, you know putting that on hold because we do have time to yeah and working through that. Because like I said, it is a requirement that we fund you and it needs to be funded properly. But you are the only one on our appropriation list that we are required to do.

Yes. I feel too, I think Ginger used the word blindsided just a little bit. I think that's the piece. I mean, certainly we know you guys are up, this is a hard, hard job. I think I said that when I came. And we know you're up against that. I just wish, because maybe we could have made, a little different decision to hang on because the other thing, and maybe one of our board members will want to speak to this too. We do have, we have a little bit in carryover and in savings, but in two and a half years, we're done. We're done.

So I will say, I think Tammy, because the commission did, did we went through this a little bit last year and, and, and the information that was originally sent out, I think that Tammy did it say that be aware of that we we do want to try to be more conservative and try not to increase or stay the same or decrease would be the best or whatever language it was in there but I know that when it comes time to when you do your budgets I know that you know what tonight we do away with so I understand that side of it too but I do you want to know I hope that you weren't that terribly blindsided. I know obviously you were, because it was kind of in my mind, but I thought, well, that's more than whatever. And we've talked about that. You know, you don't want, and Commissioner Giordano had said that several times, is we don't want it to be significant to, you know, whatever. You know, do you want to just completely, because I think I was probably more... speaking more dollars than you were considering because, but nonetheless, you know, I just, I, I came into this and I said, you know, as much as I said, I'm going to have to be tough because if that's, you know, what the people want and I'm all about that, then we just, you know, we, we keep core services and, you know, because I said, well, maybe we should cut down on the, amount of asphalt and gravel okay you can't do that because then you know so i got shot down several times when i made my suggestions because you know they're just you know so do you want rock on your your uh roads or do you know so we kind of eliminated core service because we did the same we're we asked department heads several times where can you cut that when they come in and they don't you know when i know the treasure is off you know they're they're uh budgets are 98 and that it's all personnel yeah the choice there is is getting rid of people because um tammy too had said uh you know our increase in uh and i didn't realize it was that much but she talked about that 30 your benefits and you know that i don't even know how you know we're gonna you know sustain that so i mean we're all in um this together but again i i'm thankful for the comments and everything because we certainly want to take them into consideration so yeah

I appreciate your time. I, I, we just, we just don't know what to do, you know? Um, and you know, I understand that we're being treated a little different. It sounds like, um, than other entities you appropriate to. And, and, you know, I, I just remember when I was hired, I was told over and over again, how supportive the commission is of extension work. And so maybe I was more blindsided than others. I don't know. I just thought, oh my gosh, you know, I, I expected. Maybe a quarter of that.

And the relationship, as I said, I went to that one meeting, the building commission with those four groups and two, and I didn't realize all, you know, we had our public works directors there. And so I was impressed and I went away from there thinking, wow, you know, you've got the public works desk. That's a good working relationship. They're getting it done. And both sides were like, yeah, what else, you know, whatever. So I thought that was awesome. That's what the, You know, when we just need to be able to work together to come up with a good plan that we can sell to all the community so you guys can keep coming back and giving us ideas.

Well, we'll try. You know, we're open to this. We just felt like we really needed to come and say something for our folks because we just don't know. We don't know what we're going to do with that situation. Before you leave, I do want...

Sally, this pertains to the senior center. And I know there's been talk and people wanting to allow alcohol there. And I think you guys would get a lot more rent from renting it out if they do allow alcohol there. I know it might be a hassle at first, but I think, you know, it can be done. But that I feel is a huge, because people want to have weddings there. I know that there's people who complained about that. Um, you know, and I know that there's a lot of people that were like, well, it's a four H building. Well, so it was rock Springs and I drank alcohol there that lit. So they allow it out there. Um, so. i i i just feel that that might be and i wanted you to hear that because i think that i think the senior center would be able to make up a lot of the cut in the appropriation to fight so with what's my understanding and i just joined that committee um with kyler's absent with his exit

and my understanding is is what you're appropriating to them like there's some sharing between the budget or the building committee there's actually building committee that has some of the senior center folks on it and then there's those that kind of represent extension and it sounds like they kind of share those costs so they tried the building committee's piece of that they tried really hard to generate the revenue you're talking about to just cover that and And we have had really great support from Public Works to help us keep it going. And we really, really appreciate that. Absolutely. Yeah, I spent a lot of time at the Senior Center, so I kind of don't want to go back there now. You know, I just feel really terrible for them because I do think they feel slighted in a lot of ways.

Well, we spent $116 on building repairs out there, so I don't think they should feel slighted because we have spent a lot of money. We think it is very important. But they need to start thinking outside the box as well, just like everybody else that we give money to on how they can, you know, we can, you know, I'm sure that this door, you know, society is going to be upset with us. But, you know, like I said, extension is the only thing we are required by statute to fund.

Yeah, even the garage sales that they have, because I participated because my friends wanted to do it. So I said, sure, I like the social time. But even those are nice. And I told the gal, Courtney, before that they should be charging more. But even stuff like that, I told her not to give up on it. But I think over time there will be more people interested in doing that. So I hope it does continue because there are more people each time that came in. But, you know, maybe increasing the cost to rent because $5 was pretty cheap.

I agree. I agree. And you do know they have a new director there now? Yes. So I'm sure Amy would be open to any suggestions on that as well. And I don't know who all sits on their advisory board either. So, Earl, would you like to talk as well? I can talk a lot because I feel passionate about this.

Well, I think, you know, we've heard of pieces touching on, you know, kind of how out of balance the county is right now. And maybe a little bit on how it got out of balance. Maybe some of these costs have went up. Maybe some things that you don't really have any control over funding have increased some of those costs, created things kind of going out of balance. And the challenge to try to get things back into balance. And kind of as board chair, for the extension council, you know, you know, if that balance was going to be able to come back in a couple of years, you know, we could develop a plan, you know, to maintain our staff and maintain our personnel and do those kinds of things. And, you know, but you know, if it's a continual decrease, then, you know, that's, you know, right, right now, if, if we took every bit of cut and put it towards the physical costs or telephone or copy or those kinds of things, it still would cut into personnel. And, you know, we've been trying to brainstorm ways that we could keep going a year or two and still maybe add an ag agent or do some things like that. But, you know, we lost our ag agent because the commercial world was a little more competitive You know, you mentioned doing the steps and the colon. Well, you know, with cuts, when we presented the budget the first time, we took the, you know, trying to keep it flat to heart. We really wanted a 3% increase, and we cut everything we thought we could just to do it one so we could give a little bit of a raise to our people. And, you know, so we did our very best we could to try to keep it flat. So we were trying to take, you know, your guidance to heart. But, you know, a big, you know, 10% cut, you know, we could push, you know, filling the ag agent position off for a year, you know, let 27 set. You know, we don't want to ask personnel to take

decreases in pay. And we really think we have good staff.

So we don't want to cut staff, you know, and go to a four person, you know, three professionals and two office professionals. You know, we'd rather keep the five as kind of our minimum. But, you know, if we have to go to four, you know, so that's the kind of things as board chair, you know, the strategy, you know, you've kind of had the questions about guidance on, you know, what does the county want from extension? And so, you know, we're not looking for any answer today, but if there's some guidance on, you know, basically it's, it's all salary kind of like, kind of like you've mentioned there's, and basically the county, you know, it's here in county extension, from a funding standpoint. And, you know, I mean, and so, you know, if there's some direction that, you know, you would rather have a two-agent county and a two-professional. You'd rather have a three-agent and try to get by with one professional.

When you say that with K-State, you know, what part do they play in your funding?

They fund what it's like

fifty thousand dollars it's not very much i just want because then what part of gender's information um she wrote the difference it came because k-state recommended additional compensation and you know when i read that first i was like well if they're recommending it then they should be paying it you know you know so i was curious as to that fund you know because that's what's our problem is too is

The recommendations coming from K-State is districting. I guess I've always been proud of Gary County funding our program so that we didn't, over the years of my career with corporate and ag, I worked with a lot of counties and districts worked, but I think they gave up a little bit in a lot of cases. I was, I was always, I was always proud that we were able to fund our, our county, you know, I mean, this is my home county that I, you know, I didn't live here for 20 some years and now I'm back, but, uh, uh, you know, maybe I'm one of those that was kind of tell her how, how we've been proud of her. And I, and so I know the challenges that, you know, we'll, we'll work with whatever challenges that we have, but, you know, you know, we want to know what, you know, you know, if we can be funded in two or three years, you know, and get things balances in line, we'll do our best to hold our own and try to status quo. But if it's going to be a continual downhill, then we've got to restructure, you know, our, our offices. So that's the kind of guidance that, uh, you know, we, we just need County direction on what you want your extension office and program to look like. And, you know, we're going to have to, um,

do what you tell us we're gonna you know need to do but we're going to try to do it with the you know least personnel impact possible because I think you know the people are our resources and I do want to mention as you're talking about that if if we do restructure agent wise it won't be at 50 000 anymore but they are saying direct contributions salary and benefits is about 96 965 is what they gave and with it in kind of about 49 000 it's

one hundred forty five thousand nine ninety four is K state's input and so the benefits of retirement benefits yes it is so yeah okay all right thank you thank you for your consideration but you know your guidance you know as we go through this will be appreciated did you said have something to add no I just all I was gonna say I've never been a fan of districts because i think you said it because somebody gets a short end of the stick when it comes down to that and i came from a district situation there's a reason i came here the other thing that's starting to be pushed a little bit is sharing agents yeah right well i think somebody gets a short end of the stick on that yeah and uh you know we all love chuck And if we could attract another tiler, our county would be a step up instead of a step down. So we'd like to pursue those avenues. But we can hold off a year. We don't really want to go to four from five. But we'll do what we need to do based on the funding. So we appreciate your consideration on those items.

Thank you for coming in. Yeah. And Susan Jaegerson, I just want to add as a board member and also somebody that works really closely with extension, with our live well programs and stuff. I've seen them over the years as I've been a board member and working with them, they keep getting cut. I mean, they used to have the SNAP educators that were able to go into the schools and do the education for the programs and things like that. They got cut. The snap educators got cut because of federal funding, but Renee picked that up. So they just keep getting cut. Um, and they working with their budget as the board member, I've seen their budget is as lean as it can be. I mean, the things that we approved for budget and things like that, it's very, very lean. They don't have a lot of fat in it. And so to see that they're getting cut even more and figuring out how they're going to continue to do more with us and the way they serve our community, the programs that they're involved in. You know, they're a great resource for us. They're a great resource for the other nonprofits. I can reach out to Renee for things. We just work together and help somebody who didn't have any food, didn't have any kitchen stuff. and called her up and she helped get it and things like that. So they serve a really important purpose in our community. And if you keep getting, if you keep petting them, they're going to have to just reduce less. And I see what they do and how hard they work. And that's just my soapbox. And also I want you to know that I'm an anomaly because I don't cry for taxes to be cut. I figure we have to pay to play.

and at some point like you said are we going to cut services are we going to cut people just it's crazy anyway that's my so far i'm an anomaly too um on that factor is i'd rather pay you know county taxes than federal and you know because i know that it gets used for the benefit of of you know our local community and you know it's not my kids in school but my grandfather or whatever and so um you know i may joke about penny taxes yeah yeah but i don't you know on county level but but i really don't complain about county taxes so not everybody complain is complaining about that too.

I can get them to complain about it. It's the people that can't afford the increases that I worry about.

So I want them to come and see me as an accredited financial counselor and we're going to work on it. Because the reality is everything's going up. If you cut her then she won't be there to help those people. Thank you very much.

I'm a bookkeeper by heart and I love to give you numbers but I've already given you numbers and your numbers were too far away for me to read but I understand what you're saying but I'd rather speak from the heart and tell you what we do at the Senior Center is so important for the seniors in our community we provide we have volunteers taking up at least 100 meals a day to 100 addresses in town. Many of these people can't afford to pay anything for it, and AAA says that's all right. Others are charged $4 or asked to pay $4 per meal, and very few can afford that. Many people get something. But those finances are not part of the monies that you give up. Those are AAA's finances. In our finances, I found out at noon today that we've been cut 42%. And it's really painful. And we have very limited personnel. The only full-time employee is our director, eight hours. Everybody else works six hours, five hours, four hours. Two of them work two hours a day. So it's very hard to cut personnel there too. I just hope you can maybe find us a little bit more of this than our recent email said. I don't have anything else to tell you except this is so important for physical health for our seniors and for their mental health too, that they can have this happening. So I thank you for your work. I know it's hard work and it's really tough to make ends meet and now we're going to try Figure out something. But if there's anything you can do to lessen that reduction, we'd be pleased. And I also want to tell you, they were speaking earlier here about building rents. We don't get the building rents. Whoever rents the senior center in the evenings, the weekends, that money goes to the extension office, and I believe it goes to the building committee. But it does not come into our budget. We don't get that money. So thank you, James. Thank you.

Well, anybody else up to me?

I do have a couple questions actually, hearing them talk about the appropriation part of it.

Jackie, do you want to come up here and say what you're hearing?

I'm sorry. Jackie, I see your register repeats. I just had a question as far as the appropriations. When they request the money, I have not looked through all the packets of what they request, but does the county ask them other fundraising avenues or revenue, how they're going to come up with that? Do most of them have that? Do they have plans in place for fundraisers?

Some of them do and some of them don't. I made a notation. And all of them, if they're doing fundraising, how many they have is the quality applied. And I made a notation on them, you know, because all those factors go into play. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, it's just our budget sheet. Yeah, because she sends it out at the beginning of the budget.

I kind of figured you did and asked those kinds of questions because you're going to cover all your bases. But I just didn't know if that was in there, if they kind of get into detail. I know, like, For the United Way, my experience is with United Way allocations. That's what I'm familiar with. And it's a lot the same. It's just on a much smaller scale. But we do ask that. And then we ask them questions. It's a lot easier to raise a few thousand dollars, though, than it is to make up a $20,000 or $30,000 difference. But I just kind of wondered, it popped into my head when the extension office was up here,

there's any way for them to make up you know to bridge that gap and the same thing with the senior center really is if they have plans to do that so i think that we all take that in consideration because we're hoping they're doing some sort of fundraising for themselves and stuff that's why i said was i said that the one gal with the with the extension that's a senior center that does the garage sales but they there are a lot of people anymore the older And that was what it was geared to, is getting more people involved. And I know the former director was trying to get more activity from their members and everything else just to have some more activities going on.

So we need to find out where that goes. Well, that's why when she said that, well, that was when I heard that. Yeah.

Well, we rented it for United Way last year.

When you rented that building out there, you rented through the extension. Yeah, I know, but I didn't know who, I know they're in charge of that, but who actually is benefiting from the rental?

The building committee.

Yes, well, we already, like this year, we paid $116,000 for the roof, or was it the roof? Yeah.

When you say building committee, what is that?

The

It's called the Senior Center for Building Committee, so they pay the portion.

There's that, and then there's a 4-H.

There's a 4-H on that. Tyler used to be on that. I think all three of those entities out there all have representation on it.

So like if you're for the fair, if you're going to be a vendor or something setting up shop out there, I heard they're charging now $25 for if you want electricity. And I was just curious then who gets that money? Because what, you know.

I think that goes to the fair. It doesn't go to the building committee.

But, you know, it's the same people paying the election.

That's what, yeah.

Yeah, so the fair committee is charged for the use of it. Well, the fair committee,

They charge you for a space if you want to put a tent up. Right. That's what I said. But you're talking about electricity on top of that.

Well, both worded both of the space.

They do bring some back to us to be deposited. But I mean, it's a very small amount, so most people must not use electricity.

Well, just because of where we were, it just kind of triggered with me when they said we had to pay to use electricity. I was like, where's that going then? Because there's a good number of them out there.

Yeah, but I don't know that. I haven't seen anybody using electricity.

Well, and I'm not sure they're going to do it, because we very clearly talked about this in-kind services last year, and you guys said not this year. We will look at it again next year. We sent out the information last year when they got their awards. We sent it out at the beginning when they asked for their money, and we sent it out again this year. So, I mean, as far as blindsiding, I can understand they maybe thought they weren't going to get cut, but

we very clearly have told them that there were cuts.

So I feel bad that that's how she felt. I'm not sure what else I could have done because everything I sent, and if they weren't reading it, I can't control that, but everything I sent gave them this information. And so, you know, and the crazy thing is all of them got that information and you look at our list and I'm not sure maybe one of them stayed flat, everybody else was an increase. So either they're not grieving it, or I don't know.

It's like sending out text notices, right, Sherry, that they only see it when they say their name's gonna be in the paper. Yeah. Because they're worried about the other three.

That's typical. Well, and that's the thing, until they actually

get noticed that this is what it is and I guess that's the first time they pay attention which again should not be the first time but I'm glad that you know like Mr. Giordano I'm going to keep calling you that too unless you feel like the phone number is signing oh you did no I'll do it after when we first started this process because of a

you know, making the cuts and stuff. I was, you know, these outside agencies, that's where it seems like everybody's pointing their fingers too. So I was probably going at it a little bit more aggressive than what Patricia had said that, you know, you don't want that shock factor out there. So I wanted to do a little audit. But then, yeah, here we are. So we're at the, you know, right now with the $200,000 home, the example that you gave, the average person for Gary County taxes would be like $166.

Yeah, and I think it started off at 200 and something.

Yeah, 268 or 287, I think. 237, I think.

I'm glad you brought that up.

And I know what you said, Tammy, about they were kind of informed last year, they're going into this year, but I guess

I feel like the other day we were looking desperate. What is the total amount, and I haven't figured it out, what is the total amount of what we cut on those people due to rent?

The three totaled or each and separately?

No, the total, the whole total total.

So on the extension, it was 40. And on soil conservation, it was $6,500. And on senior citizen, it was 70,000. I do think that's huge. So I guess. So 116,500. Yeah.

My personal feeling for this year, think we can absorb that and bite the bullet um absorb how much 116 000 and cut him nothing and not cut him at all well i guess what i'm saying is when you look at um i would cut those those cuts in half which is what i kind of wanted to do

I wanted to do it, you know, because I, you know, if somebody took 70 or 40% of my budget, I don't know what I would do.

Well, I mean, we're at a starting point with all this. I mean, all the comments I made even about the COLA or whatever, I just wanted something to spark conversation so we have some conversation. And, you know, sometimes nobody ever says anything. So, I mean, just like with these numbers here, to me, you know, we put those numbers on there. You know, we've been given the information and, you know, if we've got more information with EDC and this juvenile, you know, it just irritates you that, you know, once again, your hands are tied with some of that stuff. But, you know, I certainly don't mind, but I guess we have to keep in mind if we have all, you know, there is 14 of these or how many that we have, not 14, but we have that many come in. Are we going to change them all? No.

We didn't cut anybody that much except them.

Not true. Monumental Health, you decreased 119,200.

From their request. Not from their, in fact, I would rather, if we're going to cut, I'd rather give half of the extension back and half of the senior center and cut that from Monumental Health. If we're going to cut somebody that much. Because I, you know, I... And I'll go with the majority. I'm not saying don't cut them. I'm saying just cut it in half because that's a huge amount.

Yeah.

Because they are directly impacted and I can't print the rest of that sheet. I'll try. I get where I've made my comments on my other sheet. I can't find it. But I try to make a notation of the you know, the number impact in Extension is a very important part. Seniors and the fair, I mean, the... Well, they're all at work. Yes, yes.

Well, I don't have a problem with the fair and cutting them $1,000. That's not... I mean, they're budgeted in that way. So I don't have a heartburn over that. But Extension, yeah, the more I thought about it, I thought, man, that's... That's a huge blow. I just wondered whether we could cut economic development a little bit more.

Well, those are kind of on the back burner, as is juvenile detention, and Tammy's having a conversation tomorrow with juvenile detention.

That too. I think if you're asking me, I would do the extension 360.

Would you say that again? Extension what?

I'd go 360. I mean, I understand. I mean, they need to take a cut. There's no doubt. I mean, everybody's seen houses. What was the other one we were talking about? Oh, those senior citizens. Yeah, that's, whoa, wait, wait. I mean, I think I'd cut them maybe to 150,000. I mean, cut them by 20,000 and do them 150,000. kind of looking proportionally, you know, on size of the budget. Did you get any feedback? I'm sorry, I was, my doctor's appointment took long, but did you get any feedback from soil conservation before I got here? With that 25,000.

I think they said, thanks for the information. told him about today. But I think the only one that I heard from that asked what the in-kind was was the extension office. He's probably have to update because I haven't opened it on his computer. How much did we cut yesterday or whenever we were here? In total or what?

Yeah.

I mean, for that middle section for the general, it was $141,500. She said thank you for the information. I do know she went over and talked to United Way and told them that they were going to get charged $14,000. I mean, you guys didn't decide that. So I made sure Jackie knew that to pass on to her board. But other than that, I don't know that. I mean, she just said, thanks for the information.

I didn't know we necessarily made a decision on it.

You didn't. And that's what I told Jackie. I said, there's been no decisions made.

Yeah.

I said, we looked at the numbers and we talked about it, but no decisions have been made. And so I'm not real sure where... Maybe it was just a miscommunication.

We could just... all of that, I guess.

But I got that information from Sammy and let Nicole know that no decisions have been made at this point.

Well, United Way too, from where they've been the past five, 10 years ago, where they were with funding then and what it is now too. That's another thing that's been greatly

I mean, just with all these civic organizations and stuff. Well, and United Way doesn't get an appropriation, so the only thing they're getting is a portion of an in-kind, that's it.

I'm just saying that they just have lost a lot of dollars over the years.

And what they're fundraising is compared to what it was 10 years ago.

i'm glad she talked to jackie and got the information accurate though because there was a misunderstanding and that's when things happen in the public because you know straight to the source and get the information so it was good that she had that that contact in order to make sure she had correct information rose you've been quiet thanks for coming um you know have you paid or looked at the

you know what we've done as far as cvb and your and stuff and you're yeah yeah so we're going to have a time to sit to talk in more detail about kind of what some of the line items are and discuss that so i get a little more familiar with sure good i'm glad that you came today

Well, I don't think we should just do the half, half of what we had done. And then I would take another 15 or 20 of them. Say that again. Half of what we cut at the, you know, how much do we cut? All along them? No, no, no. Just on the two that we did today that we cut a lot.

So the extension was cut 40,000. so they're saying add back 20 yes to 350. and then the um i thought we just said 360. all right well that's what keith said oh but that's what tricia didn't agree to that oh and then um okay so 350 okay well i am not i agree to it okay so and then the other one was um The senior sitter was $70,000, so it would be $135,000. Yeah.

And I said $150,000.

So Kathy, you have a tiebreaker? I know.

I actually would be willing to go with that.

With what? With $135,000 on that one. So plus $35,000. And then on the... extension uh then that was gonna uh the 350 000 so plus 20. and then i mean your soil conservation they're not losing any funding with that and i mean all like i said all she said is thanks for the information and i i mean she knew so i thought she was coming over here but i don't know if you want to do anything different But I'm just going to give you a statistic here. So you cut them $6,500. And if you equate that to rent, that's paying $2.89 a square foot. United Way currently pays $3.43 a square foot. So with that $6,500 cut, they're still not in line with what United Way is paying. so i just want you to know that but you can't go below you could still charge rent in addition to get them to that 343 if that's what you chose to do so that would be about 1200 more they would need to pay the county for rent to match what united way is paying currently back to extension before i lose my train of thought so and i didn't think of it until just a little bit ago so kyler's been gone since

So they're saving payroll on his position. So until they get somebody hired, they're accumulating that money of his wages.

So that would help them out. So that's just, you're right on that.

So what's your thought to follow up with that?

So, I mean, I'm, I guess I'm going back to, I would agree with Tricia's 350 because that gentleman had said that they would be

I won't even think of not hiring another extension in the country. Yeah, but I tell you what. I know. I'm just saying that that's what he had said.

We utilize the extension agent a lot in the rural department. We really do. They come out and look at it. If you get a weed you don't know, they will come and identify it.

Don't they do that down here at the weed department?

No, but you don't call them now.

Keith also, I know folks in town who have gardening questions call Kyler.

Extension is very important, which is probably why there's a state statute that says we should be funding this. Or their tree has something going on.

Extension is important.

And we are required to fund them. So I'm more apt to, you know, But $70,000 from the CO2, that is huge. I mean, I'm not opposed to cutting the board next year. I'm not going to be here, but I mean, just a little bit at a time so they know, just like this little society. They need to stop. They need to do other things and not depend on taxpayer money, especially as their main income.

we had talked earlier when we started this process that to uh we need to vote on going over the rnr on both of those budgets and um that way to do bias and more time on this um but we got to give right well that's what the office is when we started yeah you added 55 000 back yeah

so um just looking at that commissioner giordano mentioned uh plenty mental health under the an additional adjustment is there anything else you want to go for what was your thoughts cutting funny mental health more 180 180. i don't have a problem with that

That's just .

There's a reason. I sit on . I sit on and it's kind of way more than that.

Yeah. I'm surprised.

So 190. Well, that's something to blow .

So you're all good with 180?

yes i am she is cute and the board members you should probably end y'all are going in the wrong direction you don't have anything that your mathematical mind well i was just i was thinking about your your COLA proposal. It's creative. I think... Thank you. I'm thinking of the downstream effects though.

I said that too.

So if we look at it as annually, it would say 1% this year. And then when we go to calculate next year's, if we've taken the 2% halfway through the year, now we're 2% higher than that. But that would actually be, if you annualize that, down the road. would be a three percent cola i think compared to this yeah yeah so it it kind of kicks the can down the road and that could create a problem next year i know i mean i was doing my yes and well and you can do it

whatever you want to do we can do to get you where you want to be you can do you can cut as much as you want you can do whatever you want but and i'm not using hands but when you come back next year the repercussion is just like you see this year and i've already talked to you commissioner asher exactly why we're here this year and i already told these two ladies the same thing before you came We're here because of the adjustments we made in the past. And if we don't start becoming consistent and not changing these highs and lows, we're going to be here every year, every year.

I would like to do whatever we can do so that we're not in this position next year, because I think I'd ask you, too, what do we need? Or will we be any better this year? Because I thought we were going to be better this year than last year.

I did, too. But we increased revenues last year, which I didn't want to do. We took away CIP, and that is hurting us this year. And we cut all those positions, and if we're not funding them, we shouldn't have them. I completely agree with that. But... It was carryover we used in the past that's no longer here. And that carryover, you've got to make it up somewhere, and you're making it up by increasing taxes for what we don't have any longer. I mean, that's just the reality. Nobody likes it. Nobody wants to be here.

They're asking a counselor to write a letter to request funding from the DMV as well, right?

yes yes next year i don't know we're out there through the years but i mean it might be able to start july 1st next year yeah well right

Yes, I agree.

Well, the number's not going to be the number you see in front of you because I got to add back $35,000. Yeah. Unless there's somewhere else you're going to cut $35,000. Oh, we add $35,000.

What's that compute to then for the... Well...

I mean, you could find it if you wanted to find it, but if you're not willing to make cuts, then you aren't going to find it. So for instance, we talked about big lakes development and I'm just throwing that one out there because it's fresh in my mind. And I pulled the numbers based on what other counties that also use them are paying. And if you calculate the lowest county, that would be based on who they are serving in Gary County, we would be paying less than 45,000 to them if we were being allocated exactly the same as the other counties per capita for our use. So 45,000 versus 70, there's 25,000. And I don't know if you're comfortable with that cut, but I'm just telling you, looking at the allocation, that's what the numbers say. Now, maybe if Big Lakes Development came in here, they might tell you why, but I don't have that answer. All I can tell you is what the numbers tell me.

They were, I think they want the money to, they're wanting another vehicle. Is that not their transportation? Because of the, and that was their usage, just transporting, and they said how many folks that they bring back and forth to Gary Canyon. I do know that service is used, but I don't think it's a, a huge quantity through Big Lakes.

Well, keep in mind, I think you guys have newsletters from Big Lakes as well. And they always, they've got donors. I mean, a list of donors. So they do fundraising through their donors. Now, not to say that they're not worthy of anything. I mean, I've been to the banquet before and it's very impressive that I wouldn't have a problem cutting them another $15,000 to $20,000. Okay. I mean, that's... What is your... What would you say?

That would be a huge cut.

That would be a $55,000. That would be a huge cut. Alright, so maybe just cut them $10,000. I don't know.

looking for 35 well so the other thing that was my first thing to just look at and you know I'm just throwing things out there like Kathy says and you can you know latch on to him or you didn't say no kick it down the road but the other thing and I know Rose is here and I'm glad she's here because she's involved in this next one and I'm brought out there I you have taken some of the expense off of adverwarm tax dollars and you put it into cbb i think there's more that you could do that with rose may disagree with me so that's why i'm glad you're here she does have i mean we have a and you probably haven't looked at your budget but there is a line item that we don't specifically have allocated that could be tapped into so I mean, that's the other thing that I would throw out there. I'd almost feel better about doing something.

I'd almost feel better about doing something to use our heroes than to another entity to where, you know, like we had said, how are we going to fund them if we're trying to cut back? but then they said they kind of want to know where they're going to go is it going to be a is it going to be increased or they can look for increases or decreases i would be more in position to work with rose county and be able to manage it that way than to have a huge bigger impact on like the extension budget if that makes sense

Someone open up your budget just so you can see this. And I know Rose didn't have anything to do with this budget. It was all me because she wasn't on board yet. And we haven't got a chance to talk. So this line item right here, this 3990, other contract services, is the line item that is put in to balance this fund to zero. We say it every time. We balance our budgets. revenues equal expenses that does not mean you have to spend it all but it does give you the latitude to spend it all should you find necessary so at this point in time based on historical and what i put in her budget that 243 118 is not allocated for any specific purpose 243 118 well then there it is But I took that into account when I created the budget. So I already decreased our estimated for this year in 26 down to 575. And I have 27 at 650. And the reason it went up was because of the 7%. That's the only reason that is because we put all of that. I know some of it goes to the sports complex. I can see your wheels. But all of it goes in here. and then it gets transferred out of this fund into the fourth complex. So we have to show the whole amount and then that portion goes out. So that's why the 650 is in there the way it is.

So right now we take 60,000. So what I was wanting to do for the commission is totally at the beginning of the year, just take 100,000 out and put it in the commission where we have availability to those funds for specific things like this and then that way it's totally out of their budget so you know there was a little bit of a why are you spending my money when it's accounting money so so then like in the future we automatically have a hundred thousand we don't have to spend all of that but she can't absorb that and it'd only be forty thousand more than what we're taking out now i guess you know as long as um

you know, Rose is a willing participant and we all communicate as to what we're doing and you're willing to, you know, do that, of course, then I think that's the, smart thing to do, actually.

But you can't just do anything with those monies. No, but I'm saying that we use it for things like the historical society. That is...

But we're not doing any... I think we've... We're not going to do any more new stuff, right?

No.

So you're talking above the 60 that we already have allocated?

No, like some 40,000 more. So then we can cover that. I mean, that would take care of the 35,000 because I'd rather do that than just getting ad valorem taxes.

So you're saying instead of us designating certain ones, you're just going to make an automatic transfer from CBB to economic development of $100,000 for you to have the ability within economic development to do what you need to do?

Yes.

Rose?

I don't want to put you on the spot, Rose. You don't have to answer right now.

Only a little bit. I never see the value in that and being able to reinvest in our attractions and whatnot. I think kind of like how we do with the grants where it's like, okay, yeah, you're getting this, but also how is that actually being utilized to bring in visitors? So like if we're giving you this increase, what shows are you going to have that might draw people in from outside the community? Like what kind of programming could you have and what would you potentially provide for? bus groups that could be traveling through that now we can get them to stop here, shopping downtown and other places. So I think that like, depending on how that's utilized, I mean, that makes sense.

And like, okay, for example, the historical society and main street and opera house, all are getting money, both from the county and a little bit from the CBB. That means they don't get any more money during the year. Like, they cannot come to you and say, I want you to sponsor this show. And so that would be all the money, because you guys were giving money to them anyway during the year. And so, you know, like, hey, we give them money, but then you guys would give them money. So now there's a set amount where they're not compounding the benefit. This is what we've given you for these reasons.

So I mean, I think that's being creative. the thing that I would caution that's going to be like communication is going to be key, right? Is Tammy Rose and the commissioners are all going to have to have their minds together on this because if we don't communicate with Rose, she's not going to know that I had a voucher. You gave me to pay 5,000 to such and such. And now they went to her too. And they're asking her for $5,000 as well. So I might find out eventually when the voucher comes to me and I'm like, hey, we already gave them $5,000. But if she promises it, and we've also promised it, well, then you're going to have issues inside the account. So I'm not sure how to rectify that, but that's a potential issue that I see happening.

So they're going to come to us to ask for what you're saying? Yes.

But she's still going to have money around her.

Yeah, we just need to make sure that they're not double dipping.

Well, then why does it not all go through her and then she just communicates to us? Well, because we're using part of their money to help reduce our.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying is that because they have to, if they're asking for a whole bunch of money. Oh, because you're saying that just put it on this.

So like for instance, if you designate these Freedom Fest, Historical Society, Main Street, and Opera House, that's easy because you've designated it during the budget. I can say, Rose, this is what you need to make sure it doesn't get stuff. But if you just move money, well now there's money that they may come to us and ask for in addition to still going to that group and asking for grant dollars can you just make a notation of that so that we could come up with a plan maybe when you guys were doing the budget as to how that we can manage it yeah like am i then the middleman just to be like hey like thank you i'll get with commissioners and we'll discuss and then

That's just how we can go. That way then we know they're not.

Right. I mean, that's where it's going to have to be communication. So we can't just assume, oh, Rose should know that we did that because it was during an open meeting. And I can't assume that, or Rose can't assume that I know and I'll find out when I get the voucher. So it's going to have to be, I mean, it can work. I mean, I think it could work, but I'm just saying that we need to be prepared that there's going to be,

Well, I agree with what Trish suggested and then us come up with a plan so that, you know, between, you know, even finance and you, that how it can be managed the easiest so that it's a good communication.

And really the, in this initially the biggest issue I would see is like what Pandora's box is that now open if, people, organizations, whoever, see, oh, well, they just moved this money, well, maybe there's now a way, and so now there's all this kind of, well, what else is there?

Well, I know this commission, at this point in time, we're not adding any more appropriations. We can't, we're cutting the ones that we have. And so, I don't think that's going to be an issue.

I don't know, maybe that needs to be really tried.

Because I think there's already some kind of,

comments and trying of the, oh, but you have XYZ. Okay. No, that's not what it's used for. So like, it's, it's not just free for all money, even though it looks like, oh my gosh, that's a lot, whatever. I mean, there's also a lot that I think that we need to be doing to get things here, marketing our community. like all of that impacts economic development. It impacts whether people want to live here or not, whether they want to open a business here, like all of those things.

Yeah, we have some folks that just automatically, just when they go like to the city and ask for money, then they say, go on to go to the CBB or something. And that's, you know, it puts you in a bad place, happen to be the bad guy, tell them no or whatever. That's why she has a board.

Yeah, so I think that like, And not that anybody's done anything or whatever in the past, but just I feel like there are some efforts that we can take on to help improve quite a few things, including just bringing more tourists to the area. So I would not want to right now because there's so much available. There's also, I think, a lot of efforts that maybe we haven't taken on that we should have that down the road could then cause a problem for attracting different types of business.

coming full circle on your gray line there, you're looking at maybe taking $40,000 out of that transfer. I mean, to help cover this $35,000.

Will it be your economic? But who are you going to move into as a CDB?

Well, I think you move Historical Society and Opera House. Well, it's already in.

i know again 5 000 take it out of our contribution and put it up do you want the 40 000 of the opera up under cbb so that it's a transfer covering that so then you're only spending 7 000 from ad valorem tax dollars towards the opera house

I mean, it doesn't really matter which one is which.

Well, I mean, it does because you have to make sure that it's something that falls within the category.

No, I'm talking about between the historical society and the... I said the historical society, but it could be the opera house. That's what my point was. It could be either one. I don't care. I don't care. Whichever you guys want.

So those two, the historical and opera, then you'd just change it to $25,000 for each one of those?

I think it would be cleaner if you just pick one so that I would put it up there. So of the appropriation for opera house or historical society, you need to decrease it 40,000 and it's going to come from CBB back into economic development to pay.

So Rose, I got a question and I know you haven't been on the job long enough. And I don't want to put you on the spot, but if you had your brothers, which one do you think is more important to tourism, opera house or historical? I know.

I think they're both important for different reasons. And depending on which lens I'm looking through would change that answer. If you're just thinking, bringing people in to stay in hotels and that's all we're looking at. Um, the types of events and things that potentially come to the opera house to attract that could be really great. And that makes sense. Um, but then there's a lot of information and really great history that could bring in a different type of exactly. Yeah. Lots of, um, history. Um, I know some of the events that they put on, depending on how that is expanded to make it.

more of like a i want to call it a festival it's not everything has to be a festival but just an experience um could also be beneficial so i think that was kind of a hard one to choose well and the reason i which one do you feel like you could work with to help help them promote what they're doing um market thinking outside the box as historical society they have you know little concert things over at the church on the McDowell Creek or whatever. And they have blues music or whatever, bluegrass. I guess my question is, if you were gonna work to bring tourists to town, overnight stays and bus tours or whatever, which one of these two would you be more likely to be able to help promote?

Well, those bus tours, do they just come and I know some come up to the Wakefield Museum and they just come and go. They don't stay. I mean, there's no place to stay.

Well, I think you've got to do a whirlwind tour.

They usually just

yeah i think i think trying to think about what's the fastest like low-hanging fruit i hate to word it that way um

is probably going to be the opera house. I think that one might be, and I think there's ways to still do other things. I think if we're wanting someone to turn around, I think it's the opera house.

Do we need to make an official motion to go over it?

Yes. Second. It's been moved and seconded.

Can you add in that motion that once I make adjustments, what we have been presented today will be $5,000 less, just so that what I have on the sheets and if people look at them in the packet, that's not going to be the number. It's going to be $5,000 less, which is very small.

$5,000 less than what I said. Okay.

So that will move the needle all along.

i know but if somebody looks at her packet and when i give her they're going to be like who's wrong so i just want the motion clear yeah my second still stands okay it's been moved and seconded all those in favor say aye and hopefully that uh that it's explained enough to where i i wouldn't know why a county would get uh choose to go this route because you can only reduce. People just automatically think, oh, that's what you're going to pay. I think that's what it is. A cross that at least buys us some more time. I know. Well, I know. We're going to get some time on the way. Travis is still out there lingering. I'm thinking. You're thinking?

I'm thinking.

and that's not not why we wanted to come at all so um and then what about the other one we have to vote i'll make a motion that we uh our intent is to exceed revenue neutral okay sure you did that on the report do we have to do this

the yeah that's what my that's what my motion was to exceed revenue neutral on our budget but then we also need to do the fire budget that's what i think oh oh so that could be your motion yeah yeah yeah i make a motion that we are going to exceed revenue neutral on the fire district number one and the library second second all those in favor oh do i need to include the

no no they're equal so are more all those in favor one thing i would ask on the library because if you do this then they can not go up to that 130 that they originally requested so can we exceed revenue neutral by their their full request at the library knowing that you might still cut it then to cut it now, and then they come and say, this is what we need, the more money, and then it's too late. Yeah, I agree. We'll just keep it at 130 then. Well, that's not what it is, but what her original, can we just put her original request? That's what her appropriation is, but there was some cash in the beginning, so she doesn't need that full 130, but it's the appropriation that's that. It's to leave the appropriation at 130.

Because we're hoping to be able to maybe reduce that a little bit too, aren't we?

Yeah. it might but if she comes and there's a specific reason why you guys kind of like the extension and she's not here today and she has to talk to her board i would feel better if she has that room and you guys want to say yes because if you cut her down to the 125 appropriation now and there's a reason they need it she can't go up i got it okay all right so include that in my motion i'm sorry i got it okay

So, Tammy, have we given you enough information?

I mean, we're at where we're at, and so we definitely need more budget work sessions, so if you want to tell me when your next one needs to be. I'm out the last week of July. I'm out.

Are you going to have your surgery? Well, the decision For sure.

So I'll be gone from now until, I'll be here Monday. Last week, so.

So are you guys having a meeting on the 27th?

We're not having one the third. The third.

Keith has surgery, but I just have, I didn't have, they weren't having one on the 27th.

Okay, because you have a joint meeting with PBC that day, so. Okay, okay.

so do you want to do you want to get together next week she's gonna be gone the whole week i'll be back on friday and i wasn't sure with that edc it's not friday i'm doing zoom i guess on the 21st so yeah with that

Thank you guys.

So when we get to August 3rd, will you be available then? Or that's when you have the surgery that day?

We can go ahead and adjourn and discuss this campaign. Yeah. Let's go.

I mean, if you don't want to, let's go ahead and shut it. Yeah.