Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

All right. At this time, we'll call the November 17th, 2025 planning board meeting to order. Everybody's here. We have quum. If everybody please stand for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay, we will move on to our agenda. 18 years ago. We're going to move on to our agenda. Item 2 A, approval of the meeting minutes from the October 20th, 2025 planning board meeting. Uh purpose of this agenda is to consider approval of those meeting minutes. Has everybody had a chance to review? And if so, take any comments, concerns, corrections, or motions. I move they be approved as written. Second.

We got a motion from Jay and a second from Barbara. Uh everybody know what we're voting on. All in favor? I oppose. Motion carries. All right, we will move on to item 4A into our public hearing. Uh so if anybody does want to speak up for one of the public hearings, if you would please sign up right here at the podium, there's a little table there. If you please sign up with your name and address and then when you get up to speak, please state your name and address so we have it for the record. Um, also it looks like there's a lot of you in the audience and we'll try to get we'll get through all of you. But if you do have the same concerns that somebody else has already said, we we'll probably understand those concerns so we don't need to repeat things over and over again. So if you can like appoint somebody as like a spokesman for those issues, um, certainly we want to hear from you. But if you have if everybody gets up and talks about the same issue, obviously we we've kind of got that and we understand that. Um, the other thing is is just to understand not a lot of everybody goes to public hearings and and into these is to understand the forum here is that we don't actually answer and engage in questions. If you have real specific questions after the public hearing, uh, planning staff is over here and then anything specifically related to the project, you'd have to get with the applicant itself. So, I don't want you to get up here and start asking us a bunch of questions and thinking you're going to get feedback. So, just want to get that out of the way so that everybody's clear on how this is going to run. All right, with that being said, we will get started with item 4A, RAZ 2025-13 and further information provided by staff.

All right, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, good evening board. I am submitting the agenda abstract and supporting documents into the official record of the town. The first item before you tonight is our 202513. It is a resoning requested by Penny Allen with the New Horizons Academy at 7601 Perforoy Road, pin number 066795819. The resoning is a total of 1.85 acres from the residential agricultural zoning district to the corridor commercial conditional zoning district. Staff recommends approval of the proposed map amendment as it is reasonable and in the best interest of the public for the following reasons. Number one, the requested zoning map amendment is consistent with the 2040 community vision land use plan classification of suburban commercial. Number two, the requested zoning district supports the LUP's policy 2.1, encourage infill development and redevelopment inside town limits. Number three, the requested zoning district supports the LUP's policy 2.6, encourage commercial development. Number four, the requested zoning district supports the LUP's policy 4.1, manage future growth and development in accordance with the priority infrastructure investment areas map. And number five, the proposed conditions offered as part of the petition align with the goals of the 2040 land use plan and effectively plan for the site's future development potential. I am able to answer any questions and I believe our petitioner is also here tonight.

All right. Before we open up public hearing, anybody on board have any questions for staff? No. All right. At this time, we will open up the public hearing and I'll invite the applicant up for a statement. Hi, my name is Ben Gilbertson. I'm the uh business development manager for New Horizon Academy. Uh I'm here to answer any operational questions you guys have. And then we also have Dan Miller, our uh civil engineer who can answer any site specific questions. Um I just want to say we're h happy to be here, excited to be here. Uh, New Horizon Academy, if you haven't heard of us, we're a family-owned and operated child care company. We've been around for over 50 years. Um, my grandma actually started it in a church basement in 1971. So, um, we have a lot of experience with child care. Um, we take care of children ages 6 weeks to 5 years old. Um, and you know, childc care is a a need across the nation that we see, but especially in high growth communities such as Fugway Berina. So, we're excited to be here. Thank you.

Appreciate it. Thank you. All right, Eva. I guess we're going to go with people that signed up to speak in favor of. I know that we don't really specify that, but so we'll go ahead and go with first name on the list. Sounds good. Uh, we have Mike Matthews. And if you could, when you do get up and speak, if you could let us know whether you're in favor or not of it. Um, I'm actually here, good evening, everyone. I'm actually here in proxy for my mother-in-law. Um, I've lived here in this town for or worked in this town for 37 years. Could you state your name and address just so we have it? Mike Matthews, uh, 133 Blair Drive.

Thank you. So, um, Laura is she lives at 514 Cardina School Road, which is in the Sex and Place subdivision. Um, and and like I said, I'm only speaking here from the experience of me being here in 37 years and and seeing what's happening in and out of that uh subdivision. Um, that is one of the poorest uh intersections that we have in Fugquway. And the first thing I think of when I hear small children with the amount of traffic that's in that area, I just think this is not a very good plan. That's just my personal opinion. Um I worry about my mother-in-law coming in and out of that driveway out of Sexton just because that traffic is horrible. And if any of you guys go through that intersection, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I fear every day when I leave my work at TE Connectivity on Perfory Road that I'm not going to get a call that my mother my mother-in-law has been in in a very bad accident right there where she comes out of Ston. We got a two-lane there where people are trying to dodge and get over in the other lane. And you know, these older people in this room that you see sitting right here behind me, they don't have the reflexes and the ability to pick up on a fastmoving car as quickly as other people can. And they'll be coming in that right lane. And I have people I see them sitting in the lane next to them saying, "Yeah, come on over. Come on over." So now we want to put kids in this very volatile area that I think is is is not a safe place for a this type of operation. Um, you know, that's just I told her that I would come speak. She could not be here and I apologize for that. She's actually in Tennessee. Um, but I did want to note that that, you know, I just, you know, want to make sure the right decisions are made here because I do see this as one of the worst intersections in Fquway, bar none. And it and with the new subdivisions out

on past Holland, that's the next intersection. It's just it is horrible. And until we get a better infrastructural around to be able to do something like this, I think that that has to happen first before this is goes any further. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. I know. All right. So, [cheering] we're going to go ahead and address this, too. So, we're not going to clap and boo and this is not the forum for that, okay? We're just here to conduct business. We obviously want to hear your your concerns. Um, we're obviously not a biased board one way or the other, but no clapping, no booing, none of that stuff. Okay. All right, Eva. Next person.

The next person on the list is Jean Meyers. And again, when you come up, if you could state your name and address just for we have it for the record. And I'm going to go with the first person was in not in favor.

Not in favor. I'm not opposed to a daycare because we need daycarees and we need good daycarees, but I feel like hazard at that intersection with any more traffic turning on to Old Sexton in place unless the the community and the department of transportation is going to make a change in the way the traffic flow is there. We already have U-turners constantly going to Bojangles at our street. The gal who lives in the first house is a nurse. She goes out to the accidents to make sure no one's hurt because there are so many. And you can check with the police department about that. But it is so dangerous. And to think that loads of little children are going to be coming in there with their moms or their dads, it's it's hazardous the way it is unless something changes in the DOT area.

Could you please state your name and address for me? Joanne Meyers, 1616 Old Sex in Place. Thank you and welcome to your first planning board meeting. The next [clears throat] person we have on the list signed up is Chris Mullen. [clears throat]

Hi, I'm Chris Mullen and my address is 5225 Wade Nash and I'm speaking as a property owner in [clears throat] Old Sexton uh place and I can't really say that I'm speaking against this, but I do have some thoughts that I'd like to share. I'd like to be unbiased about it and take an engineering approach. Uh so that's what I'm trying to do. Uh if I look at it from the the perspective of putting a daycare in there, I see a beautiful commercial site. But I'll have to say in my opinion it's marginal for maximum success for that type of facility. And the reason is the location, the close proximity to the intersection with uh Main Street. That's the reason. So I think the opportunity for the most success for the business owner and for everybody else would have would be to have an innovative type site plan where the discharge was further as far as far south as it could be. away from Main Street. The closer people attempt to get onto Perfory Road to Main Street, the more risk there is. And I'm not even going to try to describe what that is other than say it's chaotic and it varies quite a bit. So, if you haven't experienced it at different days on different times, you're really not going to understand it. And I would have to wonder if the applicants have done the the due diligence to see exactly what what's going on there because we are talking about safety of children uh that'll be coming in and out.

[clears throat] The other thought is that one of the principles of planning and zoning that sometimes comes into play uh would be to try to uh soften the blow of commercial where it meets uh residential. And uh so in this case if traffic from a daycare is is routed or attempted to be routed down Old Sexton uh where there are about 40 I think there about 40 houses in there that's the only way they have to come out onto uh perfor so if we put additional daycare traffic at certain times of the Hey, it's going to be a piece of cake. They can just roll on out. But it varies greatly and there'll be some of them that'll be deterred from actually being customers due to their schedule. It'll work out great for others, but I see uh backup of traffic on Old Sexton uh trying to get out. So, I would just ask that you take that into account to try to soften the blow on the residential if you would. So, thank you.

Thank you. All right, Eva.

Um, the next person we have signed up is Darlene. Forgive me for the pronunciation. Rutzy. Ruts. Good evening. My name is Darling Brute. and I'm at 1625 Old Sexton Place in Fugquway. I'm a property owner for going on three years and I love the area. I love the neighborhood and the neighbors are so friendly and I'm a caregiver for my husband. He has serious health problems. And I um got the house. Uh my daughter and son-in-law found it and they said, "Oh my god, it's going on the market soon." And she ran down there and I bought the house not even going inside to see it. Because I came from Ohio and safety issues. Why I moved down here besides being with family is [snorts] I don't have to deal with ice and snow and bad weather. But oh my god, the first week I moved in, the neighbors told me, "Be careful going out of the property on top pure because it's very dangerous." And boy were they right. And my daughter said, "Oh my gosh, ma, I don't even want you driving at night." Now, everybody's saying how dangerous it is. I can't imagine family members with small kids trying to get to a daycare. I know my

granddaughter lives in Lilington and she's got two small kids and she not saying she's a bad driver, but she's got a smart car and everything and turning and all that, you know, but just makes me nervous because the kids are either crying or they need something and you just got to pay attention. I can't imagine parents driving to this [clears throat] area here and dealing with the traffic and the safety. Now, I've seen two accidents right here at that corner, and I was just shaken. And then I see people turning around. I'm not used to U-turns, you know. I was I said, "Oh my gosh, Tammy, I almost got hit." And um I was shaking, but I you know, it just it just doesn't seem right that we're going to deal with more traffic. And it's not it's not a piece of cake. is safe no matter if it's early in the morning because we go to a lot of doctor's appointments. My husband has stage 14 disease so he's a nervous wreck. He doesn't drive but he's a nervous wreck watching me dodge through this and that and just I just think it be safer if the little kids would be in a different corner, a different part of the town. And then I think you guys should consider putting a traffic light here. just a little small traffic light because it's no matter if I go way over or you know and people are sometimes helpful. They'll let you through but oh my god it's just so dangerous that I got to go all the way around down by coals and come up that way to get into my street. But enough said but I appreciate you guys listening to me. Thank you.

Thank you. [clears throat] Eva, before you call the next one, I'm going to ask if if if if it's traffic and safety that you you need to voice. I I think we've we've kind of got that one. Um we understand that one pretty well. Um so I would really appreciate if if there's something other than that, um certainly you're welcome to come up. But if it's going to be traffic and safety, I'm probably going to cut you off, you know, and not let you run over just given that we want to be, you know, respectful of everybody's time and we understand that traffic and safety is obviously a big ticket item with this one. The next person we have signed up is George Beasley.

Good evening, board. Uh 1416 Olden Place and um name's George Beasley. [snorts] Um I won't beat the traffic course to death. We all know what what goes on over there. We moved in this neighborhood um almost a year ago. next month to be a yoga. And as you can see, Lisa and I, apart from a couple others, may be the youth group in this neighborhood. And we love it. It's a beautiful place. The daycare I'm for. I know I'm not enough, but I understand it. And the inevitable is that it's going to be his own commercial. I feel like that's going to happen. Commercial's here, commercial's here, Milano's commercial. was just a matter of time. So I think for us the best option is not a mattress store. It's not a Chinese restaurant. It's not a Mexican restaurant. It's not a hair salon. A daycare is a pretty good option for us and I've stated that before on the Zoom meeting. The only issue I have with it is this is our opportunity as a board here to blend commercial into residential. This neighborhood is 25 years old. So, how can we take it and blend it in to where it matches so good that you're not even going to know it's there except from the highway, the commercial property adjacent to us. Bad. Bad. It looks like Antarctica over there at night because they put these bright lights that shine in the houses in the neighborhood behind it. There's only a 15t buffer there. What I'm asking for from me and our residents in our neighborhood is a minimum of a 30ft buffer between our property line and

where they're where they're proposing to put this fence and the evergreens. And also make sure guys that we look at the storm water runoff here according to the what I'm looking at as far as the plot. And I I'm not an engineer. I know we have one here. I have several in the town, but it looks like there's more than 70% of pvious land being brought up by this asphalt by the building. And we got a little playground over here next to us. The only other thing I'll say, this goes fast. It does, doesn't it?

Is I would like to see the road, the owners of the property, that little side street, they said the town wants this road dumping in the whole section. If we can just do away with that, maybe direct that road back towards the other commercial property and back on the pur for right in, right out. That's the That's the way of the town. Right in, right out. What the road does, it allows a left in and then a right out. So it looks like that lane, that road could be two-way right there. It comes right past my door. 50 ft from my door. My back door is the same. That's all I got, man. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. Thank you.

The next person we have signed up is Miss Ann Miller. [clears throat] 517 School Road. Um, my property Ma'am, you got to face us. Yeah, you got to face us. My property is ma'am in the microphone too as well.

My property would be directly behind the parking area. Okay. My problem is storm water. I already had it in my uh underneath my house this year. We didn't even have a huge storm this year. We had a couple cloud bursts. We had some we had a little bit more rain this spring for sure. And literally I had to I had to have I had problems with my uh with my air handler for my air conditioning in my house. I dug trenches. If you go by my house, you'll see trenches in the side my side yard to try to direct the water because the storm water uh area is right where it dumps into the the the town uh thing is right at my driveway. So, it literally goes in between my house and 521, which is the next door house. So, that's a problem because you're going to they're planning on impervious surface just beyond that. the water's going to run even faster. So, there has to be some way to try to stop that water in a way in some way to help direct it a bit differently. So, that's a that's one of my issues besides the traffic issue.

Fair enough. Yeah. So, thank you. But I also am not totally not in favor. I would echo what George Beasley said. Um I think um I would like to correct a little bit. I actually um have educational experience with um early childhood myself. I'm I'm a longtime educator. Um I know that, you know, parents, young parents need this sort of option in our in our town, a good one. And I read about them and they they are indeed a good one. Um but you know, we also want to make sure they can they can fit in well and so that's kind of why I'm here. So, thank you for being

Thank you. Um, the only other person is Dan Miller, but I believe he's the um Okay, Dan, unless you want to come up and say in favor or against, I think we can we can hold until we have questions. Okay. [snorts] All right. I'm going to give everybody one more opportunity that didn't sign up. If you'd like to come over and speak in favor or against, and make sure if you if you haven't signed up, please make sure you sign the sheet that's right there next to the podium.

Sure. I didn't know there was a Hi, I'm Wes Clater, 513 Cardina School Road. Um, we moved in July of 2020. In August of 2020, my truck got totaled. I got t-boned trying to pull into my neighborhood. I trusted somebody that was waving me on to pull into my neighborhood and didn't see the car coming up in the right lane and unfortunately he t-boned me and luckily him and his daughter were safe and so was I. But um I learned really quickly that it's a pretty chaotic uh intersection. Um I won't beat the traffic to death, but I will agree with George. I do think that of all the options uh child care um you know whatever type of establishment beats out all the other options. Um, but I do also agree that dumping that traffic out onto Old Sexton to have them merge in with us trying to get out of our neighborhood. Um, I have a day job. It's already hard enough for me to get out during any kind of peak hours. My daughter, uh, she's highly involved at the Fugway Arts Center. She dances in 10 different classes. My wife and my daughter need to get to those classes. And oftent times they have to make a right out and make a complete loop around Lakesstone just to get on to Honeyut so that they can make it to the art center. Takes them about 25 minutes sometimes and you know I could run to the art center uh quicker than that. Um so that's really my concerns about it is that the the intersection is just a chaotic mess and if we're going to dump more people out and try to get them out of there, it's just going to be frustrating at the least for everybody. And then nobody's addressed the fact that they're going to be putting a Lowe's Foods in right up at the corner of Honeyut. And I don't uh anticipate that's going to make the traffic any lighter in that region. So

yeah, I would second the motion to try to find an opportunity to put a traffic light somewhere close to Comfort in or somewhere between Main Street and and Honeyut because it's it's already a mess and it's not going to get any better. Thank you for listening to me.

Thank you very much. All right. Anybody else? All right. At this time, we're going to close the public hearing and bring it back to the board for discussion and questions. Um, any specific questions from the board, comments? Yeah. So when they're when the petitioner is applying and I guess with the process with the planning department, you know, traffic at this location, obviously it's a already congested intersection. Um adding more, you know, looking at the Lowe's food going in there too. Uh what's required of them or what's the the math look like when planning staff is kind of preparing for this and saying, "Hey, you've got to have ingress and egress here versus there." And also, you know, I'm sure that math changes based on the amount of foot traffic coming in and out of the business. If it's, you know, said something like 121 kids, potentially that's going to be a lot different than, you know, maybe some other type of business where it has traffic throughout the day trickling in or trickling out. Um, how does that look on planning staff side?

Sure. So, that the the traffic is really analyzed at the site plan submitt. So, this is resoning. We have not seen a submitted site plan at this time. Um there are a couple elements that are coming going to come into play. One is our comprehensive transportation plan, the CTP. So any project will be required to do frontage improvements. So that's both along Perfory Road and Old Sex Place to the CTP future road sections. So that could be adding curbon gutter, adding, you know, widening lanes, dedicating rightway, building sidewalks, those kind of things. Um that's the first step. Obviously, the engineering department also has specific specifications for intersection and driveway spacing and things like that. So, that's going to decide where their driveways go. Um, the next thing is is that any proposed development that has over 100 peak trips or a thousand daily trips, peak hour trips or daily trips, um, is going to trigger a traffic impact analysis. And from what I understand, that is already underway on this project. and that is going to look at the specific impacts that this project makes to the surrounding roads for the use as well as the intersections. Um and that will make that analysis in itself also makes some assumptions and it makes some suggestions of what improvements could be done. Now what's important to determine is is that looks at this impact and doesn't necessarily solve you know one project cannot solve are already existing traffic issues right it would be really nice if they could but it doesn't work that way so it will look at this project's impact on on the situation um now the next thing is perfor is an NC dot road so really the third leg of that stool is is any driveways or improvements along Perfory road are going to need NC DOT um encroachments and driveway permits and such. So that TIA will also be

analyzed by NC DOT. Um and they're going to make some requirements or standards and and set the tone. Will it require turn lanes? Will it require diesel lanes? You know, what where can those driveways be spaced? What driveways will be allowed and not be allowed? Um so there's kind of three things that will be looked at. Um, another thing that the the Lowe's Foods was mentioned along with that Lowe's Foods going in in Academy Village will be the the extension and connection of East Academy Street over to Lakesstone Commons. So, um, we are hopeful that that will also create another east west route across town um, and take some of that pressure off people having to scoot up and get um, onto 401. So obviously until that happens we don't know what the you know the relief will be will look like but hopefully you know the more options and routes that you have um the more different directions those cars can go and relieve some of that pressure.

Thank you. So the traffic impact analysis is not yet complete. Is that correct? That is yes it is required and will be submitted with the but it's not complete for today for the reasoning. Do you normally require the TIA for the reszoning level or is that normally something that comes? Yeah, it's required with either preliminary subdivision or site plan. Have you seen anything from DOT on this? Has the applicant submitted anything from DOT even as a a courtesy look because it looks like I mean the zoning we give the option to submit zonings with um like master plans.

Uh it looks like on here is checked no. Um, so I mean there is an option to check it with a master plan because I mean I know everybody's referencing a site which I'm assuming is the the little exhibit that was shown in the neighborhood meeting report. Um, but there's not been a site plan actually submitted with this resoning. Correct. There has not. Um, and the applicant could probably speak to know. I know they have had communications with our engineering department um, as far as as getting their TIA going. So they could probably speak to whether they've had any conversations with NC DOT or not.

I think it'd be helpful if the admin come up and talk to that about, you know, what conversations have been had with DOT. what kind of restrictions have they have they talked to you about? Um, I think it's important for everybody to understand that uh it is kind of it is it is state law that we have to have access to properties uh off of some public thorough affair and this one happens to sit at a corner. So, I mean to say that they can't have access off either one is is not something that this board can really base our findings off of for a zoning case. Um, but I do think it'd be important to understand what those conversations look like. uh if you've had a TIA scoping meeting, what intersections you're required to look at and and where you think you're at with that TIA.

So, my name is Dan Miller. I'm at 1413 Squire Ridge Drive in Fugquway Arena and I'm site engineer for this project. I can tell you that there have not been any preliminary discussions with NC DOT on this project at this point. Um, you know, we do know that there is some required widening along Perforoy Road, um, rightway dedication as well as a turn lane onto Old Ston. There's also going to be a requirement for, um, some improvements along Old Ston Road once you turn into Old Sexton, such as curbon gutter and street lights. Um, what other questions did you have?

I mean, so I think could you talk to the TIA? It says like the TI is underway which means you've had a scoping meeting. Correct. Yeah. So that's my understanding. Uh we are not the traffic consultant for the project. However, he's part of the team and my understanding is he's taking counts. Uh they're taking counts either this week or u last week give give or take a week. So uh counts are just getting started. I my understanding is there has been a scoping meeting with the town on that already. But you don't know how many intersections or what intersections were included in that one yet? Do you know, Ben? No, I don't know. Have not heard [clears throat] that information yet.

Um, I will say that we have done traffic analysis on past and current um, schools that we have, not in Pew Wave Arena, but in other municipalities. Um, typically parents, you know, it's not like a start time and an end time. It's not like elementary school. So, you basically have a um parents filtering in throughout the morning from, you know, we operate 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. So, typically parents will come in 6:30 a.m. to, you know, 9:30 a.m. something like that. Um, those are going to be more of our peak hours, just when you would typically drop your child off. And then, um, in the evenings, you know, 3 to 6:00 p.m., that'll be kind of the cadence there as well. Um our peak um peak number of visitors is around 60. It would be around 60 vehicles in from like 7:30 to 8:30 a.m. Um and then 4:30 to 5:30 as well. So

So your your peak kind of coincides with the natural peak of traffic. Yep. You know, as you're dropping your kid off going to work. Makes sense. Yep. But around 60 is kind of where you're living as far as

Yeah. for your specific for this size school it would be about 60 just basing it off of um you know some of our current schools. The other thing that I wanted to keep in mind is typically a child care is not 100% occupied. It's very rare for that to happen. Um usually they're around 60 to 70% occupied. And so when we're looking at you know traffic counts based off of capacity for example probably not the best indicator. um you'd have to use about a 60 to 70% occupancy rate to really get what it probably will be.

I think we would default to what DOT would require on something like that. Um okay, anybody else have any questions on the traffic piece of it for the applicant so we don't make them sit down and come back up. The other thing that I wanted to mention too real quick is we will have a ride in right out on [clears throat] Perfoy Road. So most of our customers are going to be using that and if traffic is you know and you know I've seen it I've driven the site too. It's not great but you're not most of our customers are going to be utilizing that right in right out. They're not going to be going to old section and trying to turn left and they're not going to [snorts] be going to old section and trying to turn right.

So kind of two follow-up questions to that. One, how do you know you're going to have a ride in right out on Perforoy if you haven't had any conversations with DOT to know if they'll allow you to have that? Um, so we've submitted, we've been in conversations with the planning um, department a little bit and we've submitted site plans and they've told us what they expect to see at that um, at the site here and so that's a requirement that has been made of us. Pam, could you address that because I mean that's a DOT road, not a town road, right? So there was, I believe, a pre-development meeting back in June. Um and we we did um suggest that we probably be limited to a right in right out but the conversations would need to be have with DOT

right because I mean DOT could clearly tell you that you can only have a right in. I mean that so that's why I was asking if you've had any conversations with DOT on this because they could they could limit it even further than that. And judging by the number of driveways is out there. I would certainly expect that. And I guess question two would be, have you reached out to the property to your south about cross access and potentially, you know, partnering with them and maybe saving some of the money that you would do on a driveway and and figuring out what you guys could do to create a safer um kind of a shared drive. It looked like on that sketch in the neighborhood meeting that there was shown to be a cross access to the south, but it looks like they don't have one to the north. Um

Yep. And that was another suggestion. Um and so we incorporated that into our site plan. We haven't reached out to the property owner to the south at this point. Okay. Are you planning to do that or um we can, you know, we we're certainly we want to make this as seamless as possible for the neighbors and for our customers too, you know. Um I will say, you know, the property to the south, they have a rightin out. So I don't know if that would really solve much in terms of traffic. Um, unless we don't get a right in right out on Perfoy, for example, then that could be more of a conversation. Yeah, I think that's where your TIA will come in and help you out there.

Okay, any other questions? All right, thanks guys. Any other discussions on traffic or any other particulars?

U, just a quick question to staff. Um, one of the first speakers spoke about um, would like to see infrastructure before the development and would is this an area that infrastructure is planned for or is it expecting development to take care of the infrastructure needs that are impacted or that development? So looking at the engineering department's website, there have been actually intersection improvements north and south of this already that have been done. I'm not aware of any current town projects that will be improving this stretch of Perfoy Road. Okay.

So generally speaking, we do rely on development to kind of pay to play and do the improvements when they come in. Pam, how long is this project or this property been planned or land use planned as commercial? So, um, this has been slated on the land use plan as commercial since 2005. Wow. Okay. What is the current setback requirement for the property and on the east side where they're going to have a fence and and evergreen? What's the current setback?

Commercial properties only have so this this quarter commercial has a front setback [clears throat] only that's a 20 ft that's a building setback on a corner property both frontages old sex place and periphery will have that 20 foot building setback. Now what they do have on the east facing the old sex in place the subdivision would be a 15 foot landscape buffer. So that will serve also as a building setback as nothing can be constructed. No parking lot, no buildings can be constructed in that landscape buffer. And it looked like they had an additional condition about some evergreen trees and a fence along that same like that eastern border,

right? So one of their conditions is to install a fence. That fence would be required to be on the inside edge of that landscape buffer. So the full benefit of that buffer and vegetation would be to the facing the neighbors. Um the land the type B buffer does have a large tree requirement in this case that will be fully required to be fully evergreen as per their volunteered condition. Okay. So not an additional row just the trees that are in that required buffer. Yes. Combination of trees and shrubs that will have fully evergreen trees. But the shrubs could be you know they could be deciduous they could be whatever. Right. Based off the way that

it's a combination based on the buffer requirement. Yes. Um, I think it's also important we heard some some concerns about storm water management. I think that's an ever growing concern that we hear a lot. Um, so I think it would be helpful if you could speak to some of those like the requirements that we have and I know engineering is not here but um I think it's helpful to understand that you know at the resoning level obviously we don't have a full set of construction plans to look at but that no matter what it's reson to it still has to meet the intent of the ordinance and the what's in written in the ordinance.

Right. So all disturbance over one acre does trigger both storm water and erosion control and that is something that is re reviewed by the town um per that the state has given us the authority. Um so in all likelihood one thing that was not shown on their sketch that was presented at the neighborhood meeting was a storm water facility. There is always the option to put that underground under the parking facilities. I don't know if that's what they have planned, but the the concept that needs to be demonstrated in that storm water um those calculations are are basically the rate, right? As raindrops fall is that they are going to be um the same pre-development rate of of raindrops falling off that property will be maintained at that same rate. So, they will hold whatever rainfall they get and and let it go at the same rate that it is pre-development. And so that's what will have to be demonstrated and maintained whether that be, you know, through a a storm water facility, an open pond kind of thing, or an underground facility.

Any more questions from the board? Was a was it were any kind of conditions discussed with the petitioner and and the town? Um was that were there ever any conditions discussed other than the the buffer? So the the other conditions that they've offered um have to do with limiting the uses. They basically went through the list of of um court or commercial uses and and specifically allowed certain uses that they thought were applicable to property.

This is one of those tricky ones, guys. um because largely the use is pretty good use, but um I'll be honest with you, I'm it's hard to vote on something and approve something without having any feedback from DOT. Um I think that's a little that that's a little disappointing. Um to not have any answers to that, to not know uh what intersections are being analyzed. I mean, not to have the traffic consultant here, that's that's that's hard for us to that's a hard ask. Um you know, not having any discussions with the south property owner. none of those questions. That's a hard ask of of this board. Um given that we all do live here, so we we're very well aware of that intersection and very well aware of the concerns that we heard tonight. So uh I for one like I don't just like the use. I think it's a good use. I think daycarees are a real need in this town, but I have a hard time supporting it right at this moment without having any more documents to go off of and anything to look at to know what it is we're looking at. That's just kind of where I'm sitting at.

Can we table? Could you table? Yes, the the plan board could table it for one meeting. Um I'm not usually a fan of us tableling things because I don't purposely like to hold people up, but that is a motion that is available to us. Um if we would like that um and this may be a good one for that to to table it and um give advice to the applicant that they bring us some more information to to look at. Um, you know, I think this one is a good candidate to have a master plan with it to to identify maybe those driveway locations, um, and pin down some of those things so that we can actually have a visual to go with it. Um, I don't think anybody on this board is opposed to the use, at least not from what I'm seeing, but I think we all understand the concerns out there with traffic. I

was going to say I feel like that might be, you know, potentially the best path forward. I know kind of like you mentioned, I have concerns about it and um I feel like my conflict is I do feel like it's probably the best use of this property, but at the same time uh any use of this property seems to be uh have a negative influence on the traffic in that area. Whether it's remained at residential agriculture and you know something in that zoning goes there, it's going to have a negative impact just as much as as this will have. Um, and I I feel bad that that would be passed on to the petitioner when, you know, it should be a larger solution that's going to be a a more expensive, larger solution for the town that, you know, nobody really wants to undergo. Um, but I do think maybe tableabling might be the best option so we can get more information on everybody can have a little bit better of a idea of how they want to go.

Yeah. Will we have any information? We can only table it for a month. That's all we can do. What if the information's not back? I mean, the town board can always take it from there. Yeah, James, we have to make a vote within what? That's right. 60 days. Basically, we just have one hearing. Yeah. Left. So, um, you know, I mean, I guess, you know, what we could do is that there could be a motion to table it and ask the applicant to come back with some more information. Uh, if that doesn't happen, then we'll have to make that vote. Um, we will have to vote next meeting regardless. And the the applicant can voluntarily ask that it be pushed off. That's true, too. and that can get us further out if we needed to, but the board on its own can only do one.

I would just ask if the board does decide to table to be specific as to what additional information you all would like to see next time the item is considered specific to whether it be traffic or any other item. I would just like to make that from the staff's perspective just make that clear so uh we can work with the petitioner to bring whatever information. Pam, is there an option with the resoning that's not necessarily a master plan, but that could be an exhibit that gives us an idea of something like that. Say say we've talked to DOT, driveways could be in this location. It's not necessarily tying them to anything, but something that gives us a visual. So, obviously, they could submit the results of the TIA and potentially condition any um improvements that were required or requested.

Okay. Well, I think that's up to the applicant. I think what we're looking for and I guess what I would give guidance to is what we're looking for is is some feedback on um what it is the TI scoping meeting came out of it. Um now we have no idea whether you're investigating just Main Street and Perfoy if you're how far you're going, what intersections you're looking at. Uh we have no idea what you've talked to as far as driveways like to my point I think and and as a business owner I would be cautious to to that you assume that you can get a ride in right out on Perfoy. um and and knowing what DOT at least having some feedback from them. Obviously, it's not official until you make a driveway permit, but at least to have some indication of what they've told you um so that you know we can make an educated decision on our on our side. I just don't think we have enough information at this point as far as the traffic goes from that. And I think anything you could do visually to show us what you think you're going to do from driveways would be would be helpful for this board. Um, but I I'll leave it up to the board for for a motion on that. Is that specific enough, Jim, or do you need

Is it reasonable, though? Are we are we going to have this information in 30 days? I don't think you'd have a full TIA no, but I think you should I mean, if if they're if they're counting cars right at this moment, I've got to imagine the scoping meeting has been held.

There could still be 60 to 90 days out before the report's done. Um, I I I don't I think I'm going and not tableling it, but denying it. And I the reason why I think is that this is just this is a little unicorn in this town that we know that there's a lot of things that are going to happen to the south of this um development's going to happen to the west of it. It's going to provide a different connection, but we just don't know the timing of all of that. And so are we looking at those improvements will be made with these other developments in the other area within a a short amount a reasonable reasonable amount of time while this site is being developed or are those projects could they be 10 years down the road and so this site is really not going to see any benefit of any transportation improvements from all around for quite some time. Well, specifically the the Lowe's grocery store is under construction as is that Academy Street extension. So that's currently under construction. So that that's not a 10-year buildout. I know they're

Okay. So we have both of those. Those are both approved subdivision and site plan. So those are both currently under construction. It's also dependent on if people kind of like we were talking about earlier, do they use those roads in that manner, you know, which we kind of assume they will hopefully people are going to pick the path of path of least resistance when they're going around. But you also can't guarantee that people won't continue to use Perforoy um and have to go through Lake Stone Village Commons and all that too. So I mean I think to your point 10 years we'll have a road within 10 years. We may not have a full impact of of what what that impact's going to be in 10 years. Um yeah, it's kind of the hard thing is that you know you have this little piece of property but they can't solve it can't right

the the the growth that this town has has seen. And

and the reality is this this has been identified as future commercial use for 20 years. And we now have an applicant that that wants to um reszone this property and and put a use on it that that they see as the highest and best use of that property. Um we and what they're what they're presenting fits all of our guidelines. it meets all of our guidelines. Yeah, we I would like to see a little bit more information, but it's not required. Um my my recommendation to the petitioner would be to uh see how difficult this decision would be for this board and see the amount of people your neighbors um that that support the use but maybe don't love the ideas of of some some of your ideas. I think of that that 30 foot buffer that was proposed. Um, you know that maybe you can't do 30, but maybe you can do 20 or 25. Um, it's inevitable this is going to be a commercial property. What goes there is the question and and kind of where where the uh um the traffic flows, so to speak. Um, that that's kind of the the question mark right now. I don't think we're going to have that answer in 30 days. Um, might have some more insight, but the answer is not going to be there. Um, I would have a hard time denying this just simply because this is this is an identified commercial property and has been identified for 20 years. Um,

it's hard, but uh, you know, that's kind of where my my thought process is at this point.

Yeah, I I hear what you're saying. I don't disagree with you, but at the same time, I think it's if we ignore the safety aspect and the transportation aspect of a zoning, I don't know that we're necessarily doing our our respon our we're up. No, I agree and I I hear you on that, but it it also kind of goes back to what what can we require somebody that has a 1 point whatever it was acre lot. I mean, what can we require them to to solve the massive issue of that stretch of perfoy? I mean, it

for for me, I think it's driveway locations personally. Um, I think I mean, you're going to have to have something there. I mean, something's going to go there and any anything that goes there is gonna I mean, if you've got a bucket that's full of water, [clears throat] it's gonna tip it over, right? But I think driveway locations is a and having some discussions with the DOT on what that looks like because I mean, honestly, those discussions could change whether the daycare is is a good use, is it even feasible or not, right? I mean, if it doesn't

if it makes it inconvenient for you to get your your parents in and out, it may not be a feasible option. Um, so to me, I think having some of that feedback, which I think you probably could get in 30 days, but that's just my personal opinion. I I don't dislike the use. I don't disagree with you. I think it's it's been commercially planned for 20 years. I don't see why we wouldn't continue to do that. And it makes sense. But

I would also caution, petitioner, regard regardless of how tonight turns out, when you go for a town board, anytime we have a lot of discussion about a an agenda item at the planning board level, there tends to be even a lot more at the town board level. And they do read our minutes and go back and watch the video and look at the discussion and you know I think it would move the petitioner to also address some of these challenges in between it leaving here in whatever form it does and approve approaching the town board because they're going to want to see some answers to some of the questions that we may have. Yeah. Would the petitioner be interested in requesting this to be tabled? Would be a question I have. Just

something we can ask them. Or is that something we just need to make a motion on? James, we can ask them if they want to voluntarily put you on the spot. [laughter] That'll be to the December 15th meeting. Right. Now, before he does this, let's just full disclosure. If he requests to table it, are we still required to vote on it in December or could we? So, no matter what, whether we table it, whether he table he tables it, we don't. If he tables it, we don't. Okay. As long as I just want to make sure he understand he could demand an answer if he doesn't want to voluntarily table. Right. So I just want to make sure that he understands all everything that you know we have to provide. So if you you request to table it, we could still table it in December. But um

the reasoning the reasoning I asked that just so you understand it's not it's not the use it's not it's has nothing to do with what y'all are planning to do. It's to give you a little bit more time to come back with some answers. If we table it, it [clears throat] gives you 30 days and that's pretty much it. You table it. If I if I request it, it's it still gives you until the next meeting. Okay. But if you don't have it done within that next meeting, we're not required to vote on it is my understanding. We would we would have to we could table it. We would have to required Yeah. The minute we table it, the next meeting you got we got to vote. But if he tables it, we don't. So that'll give us two. Yeah. Gives you 60 days essentially.

Yep. Um, well, you know, I'll take a minute to answer some of the questions, too. But, um, number one, for safety, we're going to have playgrounds that are fully enclosed. You know, you don't have to worry about kids running out into the street. Your parents bring the kids into the school, walk them in, walk them out. So, that's just one point I wanted to make. Um, I think that it would I think that it would be good for us to table it because like you said, it could impact the feasibility of what we want to do on that site too if we don't have a right in right out on um, Perfoy. So I would say I would request to table it then.

So James, do we need to make a motion based off that? We typically if the petitioner request a continuence or a tableabling, do we even have to pay him? I think we don't even meet. It's tabled on the agenda and we move on. We don't even talk about That's right. I don't think we need to have a vote unless it's board. Unless it's the board is making We've already closed the public hearing. So we can we specifically t to December 15th then specifically say that you need to specifically say I request tableabling to the planning board meeting in December 15th, 2025. I I request to table it to the planning board meeting on December 15, 2025. There you go. Perfect. All right. Thank you. We will move on then. [laughter]

We move on to other business. Uh item 5A, 2026, planning board meeting schedule. Purpose of this agenda item is to consider the setting the planning board's regular meeting schedule for 2026 calendar year. Further information provided by staff. All right. Uh tonight we're presenting the recommended 2026 planning board meeting schedule for you guys to consider. Um, it follows the same typical schedule that we always have the third Monday of every month with the exception of January. Um, which usually confi conflicts with the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. So, we have moved that one, but everything else sticks to the same third Monday of the month. Um, and I am available to answer any questions.

Any questions for staff? I thought we scheduled this to for it to be ongoing. Yeah, I thought we didn't have to vote on the Martin Luther King one anymore. No, we don't have to vote on the Martin Luther King. You don't have to vote on the Martin Luther King. You just vote on the schedule as a whole. Yes. Got it. Just the whole schedule. Whole year. I'll make a motion to adopt the proposed 2026 meeting schedule for the town of Fquwayina Planning Board. Second. Which one of you wants it? All right. We got a motion by second by Nolan. All in favor?

All opposed? Motion carries. We will move to item 6A, planning staff report. The purpose of this agenda item is to receive information on the disposition of the planning board's recommendations to the town board of commissioners since the October 20th, 2025 planning board meeting. Any questions on this? I think to your point, Nolan, they definitely look at what we have to say. Yeah. All right, Barber. Item 7 A. Motion to adjourn. Second. Got a motion by Barbara and a second by Jay. All in favor? I opposed. We are journed.