Fiscal Sustainability Ad Hoc Committee - Regular Meeting

At the previous meeting also rep requested the percentage of the salary adjustments for over the term of the different bargaining group contracts. We have also information on the police department grant funding, and we have captain or chief John Radis who's going to be presenting that information remotely. And we also I think we had at one point his analyst as well to answer any questions. From that point, we'll go into some of the questions about the business improvement district, and I believe we have CED here present to answer those questions. And then we'll end with trying to schedule our next meeting date as well as potential future discussion topics.

So with that, on Slide three, I think some of the last meeting questions came up as to the approximate amount that the sales an add ons transaction and use tax or the add on sales tax measure could potentially yield an additional general fund revenue. So we just wanted to memorialize this and make it an easy reference point for the committee. And as previously conveyed, about a 1% add on sales tax would generate pretty much equivalent plus or minus to what the city collects in sales tax revenue, which is about $30,000,000 And then just conversely at 0.5%, 0.5% sales tax would be about 15% and then at a $0.25 sales tax it would be about 7.6 So you could do the math upwards or downwards, but I think that 1% add on sales tax at about $30 is a good starting point to do any calculations backwards or forwards. On Slide four, this just kind of memorializes the different bargaining groups. We entered into multiyear contracts with these groups and these are the annual increases year over year.

So are there any questions on either of the first two slides? With that, then I will go ahead and hand the presentation over to Chief Reyes.

Good evening, everyone. Can you hear me?

Yes. We can.

Thank

you. Okay. Perfect. Thank you committee members for the opportunity to, discuss this with you. I apologize that I'm not there in person. I'm at a training in, along the Central Coast, but I appreciate the opportunity to Zoom in. So I haven't done this via Zoom before, so I apologize if, if, it's not, as clear as it could be if I was there. We have quite a few grants that we get from both the state and the federal government. The first one is the Department of Alcohol Beverage Control. It's the ABC.

We get roughly a $100,000, $99,000, and that funds ABC operations and enforcement, which includes a shoulder tap program, our ability to do, checks on, establishments that sell alcohol, both liquor stores and, restaurants, to make sure that they're in compliance. It also allows for, training and education for the establishments as well as, for patrons that are actually in the in the businesses themselves. We get a the congressional community project funding. That's about $2,500,000. That came from congressman Luke Correa and congresswoman Michelle Steele.

That's, to do renovations and restorations to our building, which is a very old building. It, is obviously in constant need of upgrades. The county of Orange, gave us 500 I'm sorry, million dollars for our two year pilot program for two behavioral health clinicians. We're the only ones in the county that will have this. And there are, mental health workers, social workers that will be out in our community responding to calls for service and then responding with our officers as well.

We also did the BSCC, which is the board of state of state and community corrections. That was for a wellness fund for, our officers, roughly $80,000, that funds different wellness programs for the officers, whether that's for mental health check ins, for equipment, for workout equipment, and that's for our employees. Through the California Highway Patrol, we get the cannabis tax fund grant, and that funds programs that we teach. We're one of three agencies in the state of California, which is the California Highway Patrol, the Los Angeles Police Department, and Fullerton PD. And we teach classes called DRE, is drug recognition expert, and that's an international program.

Again, we're one of three in the state of California that teach it as well as advanced roadside intoxicated driver education and standardized field sobriety testing. And so we teach officers obviously within our own agency and then throughout the state of California. Actually, really the nation come to Fullerton for our training. And then it also allows for, the materials that we use in that. We received a grant from the DOJ, the Department of Justice, and that's, that was this year.

It was a it's called a JAG grant. We received about $27,000 to upgrade our DNA storage freezer in our property division. Through the California Office of Traffic Safety, we received it's called a STEP program, which is selective traffic enforcement, about $285,000. That's for DUI checkpoints. We do five to six a year.

And then, traffic safety enforcement, which would include DUI saturation patrols. Do regularly multiple a week. We do traffic, enforcement as it relates to seat belt enforcement, red light enforcement, pedestrian safety enforcement, bicycle safety enforcement throughout the year. We also received the prop 69, grant, and that was and this year was about $80,000. That was for, different various equipments for our crime scene investigation.

And then lastly, we received, the tobacco grant, through the California Department of Justice in the amount of $291,000, and that's to, enforce both, those that are selling tobacco, and then underage use of tobacco as well. So for a total of about $4,800,000. And the next slide, please.

I think before chief Reyes moves on to the next slide, I think I just wanted to highlight that while we in fiscal year twenty four, twenty five, we did get a significant amount of grant funding. Some of this money is one time. Some of it is recurring, and some of these grants cannot supplant existing budgeted expenditures. So if there's any questions on that, I think Chief Radius' analyst, Lauren Parkhouse, is also available online to answer any questions.

Only just to ask whether the 4.8, 4.9, is that in line with what you receive in grants in a typical year?

I'll let the Chief answer, but my understanding is that 2,500,000.0

specifically for the department, but I don't anticipate us receiving that again in the future. The rest of the grants, I mean, they they range. You know, the the office of traffic safety grant, $285,000. We're we're typically somewhere in that range, as well as the, the California cannabis grant. We did receive more, last two years ago, and that was to help purchase a mobile command post, but we are pretty well established. Actually, we received the same amount. Part part of it went to, a mobile command post, but we're very well established with, with cannabis, the California cannabis grant. And so most of these are about the same, you know, give or take.

And I think, chief Reyes, if you could speak to it, I believe the the $1,000,000 pilot program grant, I believe that's kind of a onetime over that two year period.

That is all yeah. Yeah. That's a two year pilot program. And once the fund we we don't know what will happen when that is done. My guess is that it will I I actually, I shouldn't speculate. So that is that is, as it stands today, a onetime two year pilot program grant.

And the chief is next. On the next slide, he's gonna talk about asset forfeitures. Asset forfeitures is money that the police department does receive, but we we kind of treat it as other contributions, but it's, it's not a grant per se. So with that, I'll hand it over to the chief.

Yeah. Thank you. So asset forfeiture is when, our narcotics unit or any other unit that deals with, really mostly narcotics, seizes funds. There's a process that goes through the the federal government where we can seize those funds and use them for law enforcement purposes. It's through the cal or the the the federal Department of Justice, and those funds are governed by the DOJ's Equitable Sharing Guide.

They must be expended in compliance with state and then the city of Forge in purchasing guidelines and policies. All, funds that we receive and we expend are reported to the DOJ at the conclusion of the fiscal year, and they do that to ensure that, we are using them, number one, appropriately, and then two, that they're not being used to supplant our our existing budget. And so, part of part of the guide says that there's a there's a specific guide on what we can use these these funds for, what we cannot use these funds for. And, essentially, it says that the shared funds must be used to increase or supplement the resources of the receiving state, local, or tribal law enforcement agency. The funds shall not be used to replace or sub supplement the agency's appropriate resources.

So for instance, if we this is if we receive a part of our budget is for a $100,000 to purchase firearms, right, that's a let's say it's a budgeted through the city. And, the city says, well, we're not gonna fund that anymore. You need to use asset forfeiture. Feiture. That would not be an appropriate use, and, it wouldn't be allowed by the way that it's written as as it currently stands. Also, it has to be used for law enforcement purposes only. So we couldn't be using asset forfeiture funds to purchase something for the the fire department unless that was some sort of shared equipment. And on the we can go to the next slide, and we'll talk about what we can use for.

I think it's also important to note that for the asset forfeiture money because it's kind of it's it's collected and then distributed. So from the federal government, I believe for the fiscal 2425 budget, we budgeted an estimated $05,000,000 to be collected for asset forfeitures, but the amounts do fluctuate depending on what is seized in any particular prior fiscal year.

So Yeah. And to touch and to touch on that, Ellis, also, it it does take, in some cases, years for us to receive that money. So if we seize a $100,000 today from a suspected drug dealer, it could take up to two, three, four, five years for that to go through the federal system for us to receive that funding.

Yeah. So my understanding, and I'll let, the chief and Lauren weigh in, is, we typically budget an estimated amount, but they don't, the police department doesn't plan to to allocate money until we actually have something accumulated in order to fund a particular purchase or project. Okay. With that, I'll move on to the next slide.

Yeah. That's absolutely correct. We we would not plan purchases or future purchases because, I mean, when we seize the funds, we we have every intention and belief that we're going to receive it, but there could be an instance where we do not. So we do not, we do not budget or or plan for the funds until we receive them. So some permissible uses.

Sorry, chief. Just to touch on that, it actually states in the equitable sharing guide that it is unallowable to budget for funds that have not been received. So when we put together the estimated, revenue budget, That's just based off of a very, very safe annual, average. But what actually gets budgeted is the the real time asset forfeiture fund balance, so the money that we have on hand. And just one other point to make is, you know, if we do have a case where we have, a seizure and back to that $100,000 example, it also, ends up going through a sharing process to where Fullerton will get a percentage of it.

The feds will get a percentage. If there are any other agencies that were also involved in that case, they get a percentage based on the amount of hours and manpower put in on it. So we don't even receive that full amount most of the time either.

That's a good point, Lauren. Thank you. And Lauren Park Parkas is on the phone. She's our, senior financial analyst. So some asset forfeiture permissible uses.

We can use them for administrative costs, train and that again, that's not budgeted administrative costs. Law enforcement training and education, public safety detention facilities, law enforcement equipment. So, we can use it to purchase if we wanna need a specific vehicle or, an item for our, our SWAT team that is is not a budgeted item, but we think it would it would help. Can use it for, joint law enforcement public safety operations, contracts and services, travel per diem, awards memorials, drugging, and other prevention awareness programs, initiatives that further investigations, overtime in some instances, and then salaries if if they're assigned to a federal task force, and it fits that need. Impermissible uses that we cannot use it for.

We cannot use it for endowment scholarships grants contrary to any law. Obviously, for personal political use, we can't purchase food and beverages. We can't do extravagant or wasteful expenditures nor entertainment. We can't use it for cash. We can't transfer it to other agencies, purchase anything for any other agencies, payment expenses for other agencies.

Can't use it for lawsuits, loans, reimbursements, construction costs, donations for, community based organizations. We can't use it for flash money. Can't use it for money laundering or operations, and we can't use it for salaries except if they're on a task force. Next slide, please. Before we move on to that, do you have any questions about our FAST forfeiture program?

No. So I think this next slide, the chief is gonna address some of the questions that came from the committee regarding this the additional, I guess, police presence in the downtown area.

Yeah. So so in in downtown, and this is really related to Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights, we do have a unit that is, specifically assigned to the downtown area. That's what we call our echo unit, and that consists of two police officers and then a sergeant that supervises them. And I started the sergeant that supervises them, also a patrol sergeant. These two officers are specifically assigned to the downtown unit. They respond to calls for service, in the downtown, area, and and I'm speaking about nighttime downtown. So these officers work from, three, 03:30 I'm sorry. Yeah. 03:30 in the afternoon to, four in the morning. And these are, specifically for bar related downtown calls.

However, do they respond to other calls throughout the city if a need exists? They do. But the vast majority of their time is spent downtown. Their supervisor, however, is assigned to patrol and, has other duties besides downtown. So that's why we estimated it about 50 of the time.

The two officers cost us, and this is based on the two officers that we have there currently, $481,000. The sergeant's position costs a $193,000. But there's kind of a caveat to this in that we you know, these aren't the only two officers that respond to downtown. If there's a significant calls call for service, any any fight that is beyond their capabilities, any significant incident, multiple officers outside of these two are going to respond to downtown ports and to assist. And that's a tough number to quantify because there are existing numbers that that work, patrol those particular nights.

Our overtime costs that we've tracked, about $86,000, and that comes from nights where we have or events in the downtown area that require require more than just those two police officers. And that's specific to that and and plan for that. I will say, you know, I I show that we have two officers assigned to downtown. I was a downtown officer from 2000 roughly '4 to 2007. At that time, we had four officers assigned to Downtown Fullerton. We also had a 167 police officers, positions. Today, we have a 131 police officer positions. So to put it in perspective, at that time, we had four officers downtown. We had 12 officers on police motorcycles. Today, we have three.

We had roughly 22 general general investigation detectives, and that would include in homicide, sexual assaults, property crimes, family crimes, domestic violence, vandalism, burglary, robbery, 22 ops 22 detectives at that time. Today, we have eight in our general investigation. We had multiple units that had more officers, and so it's relative to to the times. Right? We have two today.

We had four previously. And so, our our resources would we would obviously like to have more officers in downtown. We'd like to have more police officers assigned on motorcycles, traffic accidents, traffic, fatalities, and, traffic enforcement obviously are an important aspect of our police department, and for, public safety just in general. So, the numbers that you see here are not what they what they have been in the past. And are there any questions about this?

Just a question on the last point that you raised. Is is the the lessening of the resources, is that commensurate to lessening of the incidents, or is it just feature of the budget or needing to cut costs?

My understanding is

due to budget constraints.

Yeah. It's a it's a function of the budget.

You know what the incidents today are relative to when you were on patrol?

You I I you know, unfortunately, like I said, I'm I'm I'm out of town. But, you know, like, statistically, I I wouldn't be able to throw statistics off the top of my head, but I wouldn't say that our calls for service have decreased if that's what you're asking.

Okay. Curious. Thanks.

Any other questions regarding this slide? Chief, if you wouldn't mind staying on because I think some of this information that you've just covered might segue into some of the discussion regarding the bid.

So Sure. I'd be happy to.

Okay. Thank you. Some of the committee members, I think, had some inquiries about the business improvement district. This slide was what was previously reviewed at the prior meeting. But I think there were some additional questions regarding the specific specificity about forming the bid, who can and cannot be assessed, can they be assessed at different levels. So we asked our community and development economic development director, Sunaina Thomas, to come and address any questions that you might have.

Good evening, committee. Senaina Thomas, Director of Community and Economic Development. Nice to meet you all. Happy to answer any questions or we can go through an overview of the Business Improvement District as well.

My question at the last meeting, I believe it was last meeting was with regards to a bid. Just thinking out loud here for a minute and then I'll try to get the actual question. There are different types of businesses downtown. There are office uses, there are retail space uses, there are restaurants and there are nightclubs. Some restaurants morph into nightclubs.

Some are just nightclubs and they don't even have a restaurant portion of it. With regards to a bid, would it be legal for the city of Fullerton to have a bid that, the people that use that are that are using the the use, let's call it the land use, right, nightclub. That use is requiring more police officers or police presence and where there's police and there maybe there's somebody hurt and brings the fire department versus an office space who generally doesn't have any requests for police services or a retail space or a coffee shop. So when when we talk about a bid is it legal to if we created one to have the people that are generating more of the requirements to have police and fire presence to tax, if we were to have a bid? Because I know there's a tax involved.

There's a assessment. Is it legal to have an assessment for one use that's greater than another use? That's my question.

Good question. So yes you can. However with the bid we have to be mindful or the group that forms it has to be mindful in terms of the benefits that are provided. So for I think the instance you're using is, let's say restaurants with entertainment permits, right? They have the ability to be a nightclub or a dance floor, etcetera.

If the concern was, you know, safety and security during those timeframes to be able to have either police or code enforcement or other there, that is a benefit that you can provide. And those fees generated have to be above and beyond what we provide now under the city services. In addition to that, there has to be a direct benefit to those businesses as well. So, you know, in those instances I could think of, you know, security and public safety would be one, lighting enhancements could be another, and the other could be late night cleaning crews, right? Under that is probably the best, but of course we need to explore if there's anything else we can tack onto that so that that assessment of those fees for those individuals or groups, then you can think about how does that play into those specific uses.

Is it a square footage basis? Is it based on their revenue generated? What does that look like? Anything that's a discussion you would have at that time.

Okay. Yeah. Very good. Thank you. So the answer is you can assess one use a greater amount of money say per month or per year based on the use. That?

It's based on the level of service or the service you're requesting, right? So you can assess specific categories of those land uses, so nightclubs or restaurants for instance. And you basically make, why do you need them, why do you need the excess level of service? Well you need it for public safety, cleanliness, etc. Then you do a cost estimate of all of that and then you say okay this what our goal is and then you start to divvy that up for all of businesses that are there.

In terms of who pays more, those all need to be assessed. Do you do it based on square footage or do you do it based on the revenue because you would assume, you know what, they get the most benefit out of this so they should pay an X amount. So directly to your question, yes you can do it, you just need to provide that direct and indirect benefit nexus study to kind of just not a study, just an analysis to say these are the services that would be provided, this is why you should provide the assessment. And as an incentive for those businesses to opt in into that assessment because you do need a 50 buy in is to say, you know, we will there'll be cleanliness, there'll be folks who are there, they'll be picking up, there'll be extra police officers to help you, you know, things like that. So you just need to provide an incentive on both ends.

So the bid could actually pay for the Echo unit basically?

Well, if it's a level of service that's already provided now

Yes.

You cannot pay for that existing. It would have to be above and beyond. Nice. Or we would really need to make that justification that it's an above and beyond service. So the law is very specific about that, that it does not dissolve or reduce. It cannot offset your existing city service levels. It has to go above and beyond.

Currently, who pays for the power washing of the sidewalks and and the parking lot? Who

It's a part of a public Is

it the general fund? The general fund? I see. Thank you.

Lauren has something to say real quick.

Sunaina, Lauren Parkhouse. Just a question on the enhancement of the existing services. Could it then be used for that funding to add, like, two more additional officers to the ECHO unit since those are not currently existing positions?

You could. I think you would have to show the level of service, you know, what are the complaints, how many officers do you have to cover that. Do you, you know, if you can show it on a data basis as saying that, you know, you need two more or three more, then yes, I would I could probably make it a justification that that is a service necessary to make downtown attractive, you know, for various different reasons during those hours of the evenings or the weekends.

Okay, thank you.

Any additional questions for Chief Raiders or Director Thomas? Any additional questions for Chief Raiders or Director Thomas? No, okay. Thank you, Chief Raiders. Thank you, Lauren. And thank you, Director Thomas.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

So now we're on to our favorite topic, future discussion topics. We did oh, is there anything else you would like to discuss or bring to the committee's attention this evening? The next meeting date, what we were proposing was January 20. It was just brought to my attention that's Martin Luther King Day. So we'd like to see if the committee members would be available and open to meeting on that day at five The answer seems to be no for committee member Guong.

I guess my question is I thought we were going to meet regularly on the same Thursday every month. But why are we

The chambers, think, is not open.

What is it? Second Thursday, I think? Is that what we are? I think that's where we are right now. Two

two concerns. One is we're trying to fit your meetings in when the calendar's open in the council chambers. That's one concern. Yeah. We could move you out of the council chambers, so that would be possible.

The second is probably is that we need we go to the council in April, and so we were trying to make sure that you had some level recommendations to the council before they started looking at the budget. It doesn't have to correlate with when the budget's being presented because it can go past when the budget's being presented. But if you want to have some thoughts before the budget's presented, that we were thinking that you may wanna have one or two extra meetings. So that's the reason. Just those two things.

But we can so we could try to go I don't I can check right now whether we can do what is it? The second meeting? Second Thursday in

Yeah. I think February? Eric, I think Steven and Cindy confirmed with the clerk's office. Can you go over the dates that this the chambers is currently available?

Yes. So we have February 13 and February 20, which I believe are Thursdays.

So we could do February 13, which is, I guess, the second February second, Thursday in February. So you could do that rather than doing the January 20. We were trying to fit one extra meeting in in the month of January, which would have been the January 20 meeting.

And conversely, if the committee would like to convene on both the thirteenth and the twentieth, we can try to schedule those today as well. So it looks like the January 2 is not feasible for oh, I'm sorry. January 20

Twentieth.

Yeah. Is not feasible for the committee. Is that correct? Yeah.

They just bring a more aggressive agenda on February 13 if that's what the committee prefers. I I don't know that I have an answer to that question. Because with the ad hoc type committees, sometimes it evolves in how you're looking at the process. So your input will could vary how many more meetings it would be. It's unlike a commission which has regular meetings.

You're an ad hoc, which is a defined time through June 30. So it would we were just trying to make sure that you were able to get your business done prior to the prior to the time of the budget. Well, we'll be presenting budget probably April, early May to council.

We should have a recommendation by by that time, I'm sure.

Yeah. Even if you have a partial recommendation, that'd be helpful.

Yeah. If

I could just prefer one minute and not talk about the schedule, but I know the my main focus here I think my main focus here and this is what I've been I think part of the reason why I'm on this committee is to try to come up with a solution or recommendation to the council member that appointed me to this committee and I'm looking at trying to understand the cost associated with I think the biggest issue in Fullerton and I think everybody acknowledges us is our roads and our infrastructure is deteriorating and we don't have the resources currently to backfill the amount of work that needs to be done on the roads to make them safe and drivable. Let's not say safe, but just well maintained roads. Right? What is the estimate cost of the that the engineering department would come up with if they said today we need x amount of dollars and the roads in Fullerton that need you know I know they rate them by grade them by whatever one through five or A through F or whatever. What is the what is the cost estimate for the roads and the infrastructure?

Is it, like, 280,000,000? Is it 300,000,000?

No. I'd say it's probably less than that, but you're in the right category. It's in the hundreds of millions. Yes. But I'd say it's probably less than $2.80 at this point. Okay. And it depends on whether you include the utility. So there's a variety of factors. So on an average, what I call corridor street, that's usually about $22,000,000 a mile. Mhmm. But on residential streets, it's probably less than 2,000,000 a mile. And it depends on whether you're doing a full reconstruction or whether you're just doing a overlay or whether you're doing a slurry sale. So it depends on the level of improvement you're doing too. So but we could get more information for them. That could be one of the things we bring back Yes.

To you. Because I think it is a little bit more complex in that it depends on the type of street and the level of improvements Yes. And whether or not it's gonna require, like, a waterline improvement or a new waterline. Those all are factors in the cost, but what I hear on average is around 2,000,000 for a full full improvement. So how many miles? Per mile.

Yeah. How many miles are we talking? Like

Well, depend I don't know how many miles we have.

And then out main streets and then, like, residential

Yeah. So I'd have to get that. I'd I'd trying to say it off the top of my head. I I might make a mistake. So I'd probably prefer to get that from engineering, and then we can bring that back for the

next meeting.

That's an easy thing that they have. They just aren't here, and they could we could bring it back Right. The next meeting.

Yeah. Several years ago, a street that my brother George lives on, it's called Ash. It's down it's an older street. So there you've got the old town site in the Fullerton, which, you know, Amridge, Wilshire, Chapman

Mhmm.

Valencia, Truslow, Ash, blah blah blah, and yada yada. This street had gotten completely new I got all new asphalt, and then they also got new sewer lines and new water lines. When they dug down and got to the sewer lines, I actually noticed that the sewer lines that were there, they're all clay, the original clay pot, they were actually in really good shape. I was like, wow, these old sewer lines held up really good. And I know that they replaced them and I thought well jeez they probably could have gotten away with not replacing the sewer mains but the sewer laterals probably should have gotten replaced.

But anyways I know they didn't replace the laterals they just did the main and then they rehooked laterals back up. But that's something that engineering may be able to

Yeah. They could address that. I mean, they were, like, clay pipes and they opened up the street, I would say that's a fairly old standard to have clay pipe Yes. Clay yeah. And for a sewer line. The other thing is those sewer lines wouldn't be coming out of the streets fund. Those would have been coming out of the sewer the sewer fund itself too.

Okay.

But if they could answer that I don't know if they could answer that question on ash unless they were here, which they may have been. It depends on what year that was. If you're saying the last five years, then he may be here, the person.

No. It was actually before before Steven came to Fullerton.

Oh, no. I mean, David Grantham.

Oh, I'm I think David was I'll I'll talk to you, David.

Yeah. If it was when David was here, he probably did that project. Yeah.

Eric, Steven was able to pull up some it might be slightly outdated, but it looks like the city has about 70 miles of arterial streets and two twenty eight miles of local streets. And this is probably a little bit outdated, but to bring the arterial streets up to about good condition, it's about 76,000,000. And then for local street cost, is the residential, would be about 190,000,000. But I think it would be a good idea to have public works come in and provide more updated figures because I know costs have continued to escalate.

Actually, that's pretty close in to yeah. This

information is, about two years old.

Okay. Okay. Oh, thank you. Okay. I'm sorry to dovetail into something else. I know we were talking about a date so we can get back to Yeah.

Thank you. So January 20, I didn't know if committee member Dean, Chair Smith, and committee member Bushala, if you were available on January 20 to meet.

Or we could just come back with a broader agenda on February 13 if you wanna.

Broader meeting. Yeah. Yeah.

February 13.

Which would be the second or second Thursday, which is similar to this date.

February 13 works for me. That's yeah.

Okay.

Committee Member Dean does February 13 work for you as well?

Yeah thirteen. Thirteen is good. That's what I already had in my

Oh great. Okay. Then we'll go ahead and move forward with February 13.

Yeah.

I think so then at the February 13 meeting, we'll kind of bring back what the city is kinda currently doing in terms of budget strategies, additional potential expense as well as revenue enhancement options. And then we'll also look at some current restrictions that are contributing to the pressure on general fund.

I was going to say I was also surprised when I looked I realized that January 20 happens to be inauguration day and Martin Luther King holiday so that people might have, you know, might be distracted.

Understandable. Are there any other topics that the committee would like us to bring back in addition to this, the road improvement information that was requested at the February 13 meeting? No? And that being said, in the agenda packet we did provide some information on pension obligation bonds. We wanted to get that in front of the committee early just because the information is quite dense and a little bit heavy.

So it is a little bit outdated because we did that analysis, I believe, back in December '21. But the mechanics of pension obligation bonds pretty much still hold. Obviously, rates are not favorable right now, but it might be something that the committee we would like the committee to maybe consider and maybe that's something we could put on a roadmap for some future year should rates become favorable to yield some savings on pension. In addition to that, I think the sales tax detail that was requested that time is also in the packet. So if there's questions on that in any subsequent meetings, we can always circle back to that as well.

Okay? I think with that then, I think Committee Member Smith I mean, Chair Smith, I think we can probably close the meeting if there's no other business. Thank you.

Good evening. I'll now call to order the October 21 meeting for the infrastructure and natural resources advisory committee. Madam clerk, will you please read the role?

Chair Steeple.

I am here.

Vice Chair Comfeter.

Present.

Member Barb Wajo.

Here.

Member Molina.

Here.

Member Tuna? Here. Member Valencia? Here. Member Wozem? Here. Members Cho and Miranda are absent.

Fantastic. We'll move on to public comments, And I don't see anyone here in the chamber for public comment. Do we have anybody online?

We do, but there are no hands raised.

All right. Please monitor that. If you see a hand come up, we'll go ahead. Hand just went up. Alright. Let's go ahead. Public comments are still open.

Colleen Muser, go ahead.

Caller number one.

Good evening, Chair, Maureen Milton, Independent Advocate for the Disabled, Handicapped Little People, and the Mobileye Challenged. What I've been wondering is, what is not covered, for HOAs as far as, city upkeep is concerned? I are I their streets aren't, they have to pay for their own streets and stuff like that. What what are the different things that aren't covered that they they end up having to pay double because it's included in our city taxes? And that's all I have tonight.

I hope we have a good meeting. Thank you. Bye.

Thank you, Maureen. Do we have any other hands

up? No.

Okay. Alright. We'll close public comments. And, I I'm not sure how to address that with things are covered in the HOA that are not covered by the city. And I think it's gonna depend on the HOA and the community, because we do have some HOAs where the city is responsible for things like roadways and driveways and water lines and others where they are not. So I think it's a case by case basis. And to that end, I would say, the caller can contact our, public work staff and they might be able to look at a specific case if there is one. All right. Moving right along. We'll go to the consent calendar, the minutes from September 16.

If everybody's had a chance to look at it, would then obtain a motion and a second.

Move to approve.

I'll second.

Got a motion and a second. Alright.

Chair Seaborne? Aye. Vice Chair Alcantara?

Yes.

Member Bart Waja?

Yes.

Member Molina?

Yes.

Member Tuna?

Aye.

Member Valencia? Yes. Member Wozab? Yes. Members Cho and Miranda are absent.

Thank you. Now move into the regular business item number two, accessibility improvements.

Okay. Good evening.

Good evening.

So about a year ago, we, we did talk about this subject. So I think it's actually a good time to bring it up again and actually get some more input, from the committee. So what I'll do is do a brief review, a little background on what we talked about last year just so everyone's on the same page because not everyone was here. Yes. Sorry. It's it's gone. Alright. I'll lean in. I'll do a little background just so everyone's on the same page, for anybody in the public and also for members that weren't here last year. So full definitions, Americans with Disabilities Act, ADA, is a person with disability who has a physical or mental impairment.

I think the key here is a lot of people when they hear disability, they think of people in a wheelchair, and it's so much more than that. Mobility, mental health, things like that. So that's just something to keep in mind when we go through this discussion. So ADA was originally passed back in 1990, amended in or updated in 2008. It does have five separate sections.

The one we focus on as a city, as an agency is Title II, and that's what we'll be talking about today. So how local agencies address or try to, meet the requirements of Title II is preparing what's called a self evaluation and transition plan. And what that does is it goes through everything the city provides. It can be programs, services, access to buildings, access to parks, our right of way, to make sure is it in compliance with current standards. In other words, it doesn't necessarily mean it's out of compliance, but does it meet the requirements of the standards as they stand today?

So we did a recent update. We did it between 2019 and 2022. And we broke it into four phases, basically from a funding standpoint, didn't afford to do all in one go. But we broke it up, as shown public buildings and facilities and then our parking lots, city parks. And then I'll see you right away. Really, you don't study that so much because you're not going to have someone walk around and tell you don't have a curb ramp there. We know that. So we just kind of indicated that how we will update, street right away. Inspections were required to be completed by a firm that's certified. We do have and they're known as CASP, and I forget what exactly that means, the acronym.

But we the city does have certified CASP inspectors in our building department. But the amount of effort that this takes and the report is needed, it's just better to go out and have a consultant do it. So that's what we did. Disability Access Consultants, otherwise known as DAC, did the report first. All right. So you get a report. It tells you all the things you need to upgrade and make improvements to. So that's what the report actually comes out. And as I said before, it covers a lot of different departments in the city because we offer a lot of different services. For example, IT has to get involved because of the website.

City clerk gets involved because of meeting notice in the facilities, including where we're sitting today. The reason cities want a self evaluation and transition plan, really a big reason is it's a way to allow us to schedule these improvements over time when funding becomes available. There's no way the expectation if we have to fix everything right away because we're out of compliance, no city anywhere can do it. So it allows us to say, here's our list. We're gonna start chipping away at it over a certain time frame.

But the key is here is that we can't ignore it. We need to make improvements on a regular basis. So how are we approaching it right now? Let's start with our Street projects. Everyone knows kind of what's going on here. Any Street project other than a slurry seal, we deal with curb ramps and damaged sidewalk concrete work. And I've talked before how expensive that can be when you're dealing with the Street, but it's required. We also have our annual curb gutter sidewalk repair project. So we repair damaged uplifted sidewalk mostly caused by tree roots. That's the issue there.

Occasionally, we'll do miscellaneous curb ramp and sidewalk construction. Those locations are requested by residents, sometimes schools, sometimes business owners. We don't do it very often. But when we do, if we have extra funding, we'll try and implement that as much as we can. And we're also now making more of an effort to upgrade our traffic signal push buttons and our countdown heads.

So when we do a street improvement project on the arterials, we're looking to update the push buttons. When we deal with our buildings, facilities or parks, most of the time we have to go through the building department. So by default, we're going to have to do the ADA upgrades. We would do them anyway, but the building permit requires that to be reviewed to make sure we're in compliance with the improvements and the building inspectors check to make sure we've built them correctly. Parking lots and parking structures, the way we're dealing with them right now is if we do any work in there, we update the ADA stalls, potentially the location of the stalls and the number of stalls to make sure they are compliant.

And we're also actually have a project that we're trying to finish up the plans where we're going to go around and update all the striping and the signage within the parking lot. Usually, that's a pretty low hanging fruit just to make sure the signage is up to date. Just to show that we are doing projects, talk all about the street projects. We did a miscellaneous curb ramp project last year. And then council chambers, you'll see in the corners, we added the push buttons.

And we also took out a chair on either side. So someone in a wheelchair got companion seating. They can come in, sit in the wheelchair, the companion sits next to them. And this speaker table goes up and down. And another reason why we took the chairs out is because then you have the level landing in front of it. So we make the efforts where we can. Library, if anyone's been out there, a lot of work out there to upgrade and provide a path to travel. We've done a few restrooms in our parks. And then Gilbert Park, we did a lot of walkway improvements. Here's an example of the ADA stall we upgraded and the cross walks, etcetera, etcetera.

We do drinking fountains as well a lot of the parks. Big one in construction right now is over the transportation center. There's a lot of upgrades going on over there. Site work with parking stalls, we're moving them around, making them in better locations and spreading them out so they serve better locations. The restrooms are going to be completely renovated.

The cafe is doing improvements for the customers that come in. And the elevator will get some of the controls will get upgraded as well. So what's in the works? Obviously, street improvement projects. We just awarded a sidewalk repair project last week at council. So we'll be doing $400,000 worth or so of sidewalk repair. Euclid Street sidewalk, that's the picture on the bottom, it's actually really a gap closure. There is no sidewalk. So there's going to be a big residential development. So we when we can, we're just going to come in and put the sidewalk in so we can provide that path of travel.

Valencia Park is out to bid right now. There's a lot of site improvements, but the big one is the restroom. And like I said, the citywide parking lots, the signage that we're going to update. So really what I want now is to have a discussion with the committee as to or try to come up with some priority guidelines. How should we, as best we can, tackle our ADA requirements, our accessibility requirements?

And I kind of came up with, some a way to start the conversation. So if we look at street right away, priority level one, two, and three. So typically, we do the sidewalk, new curb ramps, and we continue an annual, repair, sidewalk repair project every year. So we put additional money aside just to treat our sidewalks because obviously we've got a lot more sidewalks than we do street projects. Then we go into Prior Level two based on funding, traffic signal push buttons, sidewalk gap closures that we're trying to do.

And then finally, if we have additional funds, stand alone curb ramp projects. Curb ramps unfortunately are getting very, very, very expensive. $50,000 can get you four can do one intersection. Yes, it's very expensive now. So unfortunately, I think that kind of gets pushed down the list.

We talk about public facilities. We need to my preference first where to allocate the funding would be the parking lots first, the path to travel to the building to get people there, and then the doors to get them actually inside the building. Once they're inside the building, then we'll take a look at public restrooms inside amenities. There is a drinking fountain available, the tables that people use, the chairs if you're waiting at a counter, is that correct? Look at that.

Then we'll look at once we get through the public areas, go to the staff areas. And typically, we won't necessarily look at those unless we get a specific request from the staff to make accommodations, then obviously, we will address that. So that's pretty quick. But at this point, I would like to put it back to the committee to say, yes, no, maybe up, down, left, right. You're doing it all wrong. You should do this.

Alright. Overall, my my first take on it is they they look like you're pretty much in line. The only thing I would say, the sidewalk gap closures have me a little concerned mainly because of mobility. It is a place where there is literally no mobility in those locations. And that's why I'm thinking the traffic signal push buttons are an issue, but I think it's less of an issue than the gap closures. Closures. So I would rearrange those and might even consider putting the gap closures in priority one. But that's just my 2¢. Questions, comments from committee members? I'll start down at my far right end.

Member Valencia?

Question. You mentioned, like, standards. Can you elaborate on that? Like, where do those come from?

So for example, well, the California Building Code, which deals with on-site work on private property, but it also transitions into the street right away. They tell you for a path to travel, which would be a sidewalk, the cross slope can only be 2% max. Curb ramp, you have to have a four foot by four foot landing. Yeah. Four by four landing at the top, 2% all directions, maximum slope of 8% down to the bottom of the ramp. So those are standards type like that that we have to fill in. The California Building Code really is your guide for a lot of these.

So like these aren't priority of standards?

No. Priority of what we wanna

do.

This is Yeah. Okay. Maybe I should have clarified that. This is really we have funding.

K.

Alright? We need to implement these. Where should we put our funding? What is important as part of these projects when we're trying to do, work? Where should we put our dollars that are available? So if we're doing the street projects, we need to put the dollars on curb ramps and sidewalk. Do we have additional funds that we could put towards gap closure? Do we have additional funds we could put towards traffic signal? Where's the priority till we run out of money?

And then piggyback on that. When we talk about doing the whole road, when we have to repair a whole road, that's when we do the curves at that point. So these curves wouldn't be any of these potential roads that we may have to fix. So all these curve fixture curve Right. Grains would be on roads that are already been replaced that just need them.

Or yes. Missed the priority level three. Yeah. But if we're doing a street rehab project, we will be doing the curb as we were required to by federal law.

Okay. Yeah. So that's for curbs that we're not doing any road work on. Okay. Member Bardwaja.

Hey. Thank you, Greg. I mean, Chair. Just something from left field and then something more immediate. So I would for me, I would like to see the most heavily, most highly utilized areas.

And I think you pretty much pointed that out the way you laid it out. But I think that's going to be the most utilitarian way of doing it. These are the most widely used areas, most heavily used as opposed to an obscure area somewhere up in the hills that rarely gets even walked on. The other thing I'd like to bring up is and I know it's not in any of these things here, but I know there is a member, at least on one of the other committees, that's got hearing issues. What about doing some closed captioning work in here where we get two or three monitors for people who are hard of hearing or sometimes it's easier for them to read while things are going on?

I think that would be very beneficial, especially as we do get some elderly people as well. And it may be easier to have two different modes of communication. Is that too far out in that field?

No, that's not. That's the same. That's where it's

Because that would be an ADA thing, would think.

That absolutely is an ADA thing. And I guess, again, I missed clarifying. The intent here was public works related items as opposed to other departments in the city. Close captioning, we talked to IT and the city clerk about, Okay, how would you implement that public meetings?

Okay. Because I like I said, I'd watch one of the members, and it was obvious he was having a hard time with it. So or she. I'm not saying anybody. So I'd like to say it, but also for the public because I've heard people say, I didn't understand what was going on, couldn't hear it. And I don't think and you like I said, I don't want to belabor the point. But I don't know if it's an AV audio video department or IT as much. But since it does fonder ADA, who really oversees that?

So our ADA coordinator for the city is the city manager's office. So any complaints, requests, recommendations get funneled there and then spread out to the department or the person who's Got it. Applicable to, Okay.

And if it's something I need to follow-up on, let me know. But I definitely want to put it out there because I've seen it a few times where people are kind of like wondering what happened and asking each other and maybe that would help.

Yeah. Thank you, Dave.

Thank you. Remember what was that?

I did my graduate work in special ed, so this is something I'm really passionate about. So just had a few things that I wanted to mention. In regards to these traffic signals, how many have we converted as they are they targeted in high traffic areas like downtown around Fullerton College and Cal State Fullerton? I know that the intersection at Malden where it has the countdown, do you know about how many of those we've converted to that type of platform?

So the countdown heads we did, I want to say 20 to 30 intersection upgrades As far as the push button upgrades, that's been that's a very that's a new item for us. So I think the first signal we're doing probably is the new the modification we're doing at Euclid's and Rosecrans. I know we've asked other when developers have come in and they're working next it, we've asked them as part of their conditions to upgrade, because it's a relatively inexpensive upgrade.

Okay.

So that's kind of how we're pushing it out.

And so it's just it happens to be coinciding with renovating a specific intersection, not necessarily targeted in our highest traffic areas where we would have a high probability of probably more pedestrians at those crossings at Fullerton College, Cal State Fullerton and Downtown.

So definitely where we're doing a CIP project or an improvement project. In the traffic division CIP projects Mhmm. We do put aside money for items related to the traffic signal. So if we get to, if they're looking at the priorities for the year, this may be an item they can put money into instead of replacing maybe the or upgrading the signal heads, they'll upgrade the push buttons instead. And then they'll focus on the signals that they think are most important to upgrade.

So when we do install these things, it's wonderful that we have we've contracted someone. Do we get feedback from that population? How is this resonating with you? Is it effective? Is this something that if you had the choice that you would choose? Do we ever do that?

I I think usually it's one of those if you don't hear anything, it's good news.

Okay.

Because usually you you only hear when you it's not right or they don't like it. But a lot of things with the ADA, it's so strict requirements. There's no there's very limited flexibility in how you can implement something. It's pretty much you see that correct or it isn't.

Well, regards I

think most people understand that.

Yeah. And in regards to inclusivity, think some it's there's a wide variety of possibly challenges that people are experiencing. It just would be really nice to be able to get feedback Yeah. You know, directly from those population. I recently went to Laguna Lake, big improvements. It's great being able to get up to that area and and to be able to go if you have the mobility to be able to be on that dirt. It's it's it looks like you've really put a lot of work into that. I know there's going be renovations at Independence Park. Are we going to be a I guess, I'm sure that we're going to be addressing a lot of those concerns with that with that renovation.

Yeah. Fortunately, Indy Park is relatively flat. So Yeah. That helps. The restrooms for sure in the gym area, that's that's high on the list. And then any other improvements. The real intent at Indy Park with the play new new play structure will be very inclusive.

Well, that's I was going to say with adaptive playgrounds. There's a lot of grants out there to be able to adjust some of these to so we have different types of surfaces for access and adaptive playground equipment. Also leading up to our schools, I see that on priority level three, targeting those schools specifically that have SDC programs, the special day classes, if you could find out and partner with the district and find out who have the most mod severe programs, that would probably be, I would say, my recommendation of the highest I would put the priority level on schools that have SDC classrooms and especially mod severe programs. And then city facilities counter adaptability, like when you come to pay fees or pay your water bill, if we could somehow have like maybe a cutout and and be able to have those maybe at at the city yard if people wherever people need to go to pay fees or you probably have one upstairs when you have to come and

Yeah.

Pull permits and things like that. Those are just a few different things that that I have. But I this is something I'm really passionate about, and I really appreciate that you are constantly looking at this and finding ways that we can accommodate. I just would love to be able to get some feedback in real time from our, you know, from our residents that really need these ADA accommodations. And also, too, in regards to Member Bardwaj's comment, I wonder if would that possibly go under the interpreter budget, possibly?

Because in some way, you're interpreting for people that need closed captioning.

I mean, that that I'll I'll have to discuss that with city manager and Okay. City clerk to see whether

But I I'm I'm in agreement because even people that can hear relatively well, things get a little there's lots of side conversations, and many times, it's difficult to hear those at the dais. So thank you for your efforts.

Vice chair.

Thank you for this. And I'll say, generally, the parties make sense. A couple of things that just just kind of points of clarification. A lot of this is driven by specific requests. I know the annual sidewalk repairs, it's people bringing forward that this has to get done and then prioritizing it.

But in terms of the priority levels too, as and I'll agree with the chair that gap closure is important, but we can all that's also more expensive. And so part of the parties are balancing as much impact as we can make as well as throwing in a couple of maybe a gap closure in these slightly more expensive projects, which again are driven by either specific requests or tied into other projects that

Generally, yes.

General renovation.

Okay. Good. Just making sure I understand that. Thanks.

Thank you. Member, Joe?

So for clarification, if there is no funding, if you if you have limited funding, you'd only focus on priority level one before getting to priority level two?

Yes.

Then my recommendation would be at least to commit to some way priority level two and priority level three projects on a cyclical basis worth of annual cycle. Because I think if we're relying on available funding, then we might get to a point where we never have any priority two or three projects, right? We're constantly eating away at priority one.

That's very possible. I don't think we're there, but it's always a possibility.

Yes. In that case, then my recommendation would be to set aside at least a minimum floor for priority two, priority three projects scaled to priority to make sure that at least something in that priority level is being accomplished on a cycle basis or cyclical basis.

And we've sometimes seen that with the CUP. You've come in for additional. We've got a special project that

So yeah, for the last two years, I've created a very specific annual citywide ADA improvements projects for this intent to make sure we do something. It has limited budget, but that is something that I think we can focus on these priority level two possibility potential projects.

Maybe like a 70%, 2010% allocation of budget or I don't know what the right metric is, but I think that's what Member Choe is getting at is that there is a set aside. Probably a good idea. Member Tuna?

I very much agree with what Member Cho said there. That's a great idea. And, I guess my concern still is just a little bit of understanding the equity of how these are allocated. I mean, I know they're obviously tied to needs, requests, co occurring projects that are going on right now. And so are we really making sure that it's balanced throughout the different districts and things like that? I mean, I would assume so since we are pretty good about having our street projects balanced throughout the region, but I just kind of wanted some feedback on that.

I think balancing the street projects is one item. When you get into public facilities, parks and parking lots, that's going to be a lot more difficult, to do the balance there. I would be looking to focus on city hall, the community center, the library first, and then kind of working my way out because I was thinking that's more the high volume areas necessarily rather than equity throughout the city. Parking lots, again, maybe I'm looking more at volume downtown, addressing those when you get more people then working out the parks, maybe the tennis center, which I think up to date. But maybe looking at areas where you get more volume necessarily rather than use.

Now I'm not saying that is exactly the way it's doing it, but I think there's going be multiple ways of trying to figure out where to put the money. Maybe some location this location is cheaper to do it, and I have enough money to do it here rather than, well, that's a higher volume. I'd rather do it there, but I don't have the money. So I'm gonna go over here and do it anyway.

Right.

So it's gonna be a balancing act every year, I think.

Leo, thank you.

Member Molina.

Yeah. I I was just looking at this, and what really caught my my eye is the sidewalk repair project. It's somewhere here. But I I was just reading the other day about the street and highway code, section fifty six ten to fifty six fourteen. I think it's a it's a state law allowing our citizens to work on the sidewalk that is in front of them. So I was just wondering, how would this impact our projects here? And are we doing that in Fullerton?

What do you mean by the pedestrians are allowed to walk on the sidewalk?

Yeah. It's a it's a state law. State they call it the street and highway code, section fifty six ten to fifty six fourteen. And before, their usual practice was for a a a resident to hire a contractor, preferably Class A or Class C8 to work on the sidewalk in front of them. This law is allowing the residents not to hire a contractor, but to work on their own?

Well, if you're working in street right away, you are required to get an encroachment permit from the city. And the city requires, that you hire a correctly licensed contractor to do the type of work that we are essentially allowing the resident to do in city right away.

Exactly the opposite. This law states that residents are not allowed to are no longer allowed to, get a permit. They can work on their own.

I I I think we'll need to look at that because the city has has been tasked with maintaining and controlling the street right away. So if we don't have that control, then anybody will do anything they want. So I think I think we need to look at what the interpretation is there.

And there's also the dilemma about whether or not the right of way being considered is fee or an easement. A lot of public right of ways are easements, in which case the property owner could construct their own sidewalk. However, the vast majority of public rights of ways in Fullerton that I'm aware of, except for maybe some of those HOAs are owned in fee by the city or that they're responsible for in fee. So I think that changes things a little bit.

Yeah. The the I don't wanna get off topic, but there's there's a lot of conversation between is it easement because street right away is dedicated. It's most street right away is not fee owned. It is dedicated. So if the city decides to abandon right away, it'll go back to the underlying fee owner, which generally is the the property owner that's adjacent to the the street right away. So, yeah, we we can talk about that separately. There's there's there's a lot of back and forth we've had with attorneys about who owns what and what's an easement and who's responsible and

The reason why I brought it up is personally, I do not agree with this. I do not agree with this section, Pit 610 to Pit 614. It's going to be like chaos out there. If we allow residents to work on their on the the sides side sidewalk in front of their house, of their residence without the aid of a permit, without the aid of a professional contractor.

No. They definitely have to have permit. Any work done on the public right away, have to have a permit for. You have to have an encroachment permit. Otherwise

That's the old way of doing, Chair. But this one saying no.

Chair, could I ask a question for clarification?

No. You may yes, you may.

Okay. Thank you. So would that possibly be, say, I live in one a rural section where we don't have sidewalks on our street? And say, for example, like on Valencia Mesa Mhmm. Would that be like you decide, you know, I've always wanted a sidewalk and you're you have the now you have the right of way or the the right to be able to put a little strip of sidewalk in front of your house? This sidewalk to nowhere? I mean, is can you give me an example

of this? I mean

A little bit.

For example, someone must put a driveway approach in. They need to come to the city to to indicate how they're going to do it so we can approve it, so we keep standards, and we keep consistency, and we keep it correct. So if someone wanted to put sidewalk in, they'd have to come in and request it. We'll review it. But in a rural road, chances are no.

Okay. Thank you. Member Valencia, I saw your hand go up. You wanna say something else?

Can we tell you what we would like, our opinions? Are you ready?

Yeah.

K. My priority would be level two and level three.

Of the street right away?

Yeah.

Okay. Do I

have to pick one?

No. I'm just saying if the you know, like I said, I and just when you're feedback, this is what I thought of initially is is how we would deal with our funding levels.

Because I really think traffic signal push button upgrades is important

for people.

I think, like, if it I don't I'm okay. Would you include, like, the chirpy noise to help more Yeah.

The new new ones have the sound.

Okay. And then the sidewalk gap closures, how many of those are you talking and how much would we have to do?

There there isn't a tremendous amount of gap closures, but where they are, they could be pretty expensive.

Okay.

And and some of the the property owners that back onto it may not want it.

And Okay.

They that can turn into a challenge too.

Okay. And then the miscellaneous curb ramps. So you're talking about, like, around Saint Jude and Yeah. That stuff or at schools?

Yeah. I mean, it's it's just where there's more higher volume

Okay.

And more of a diverse, I guess, usage is what I was thinking there. I mean, schools, I we get a lot of requests from mothers

Right.

Which is not a necessarily valid request. I understand why, but it's not a valid request. So I think to your point, we need to be focused on providing it for the people that need it.

What about the standard? I don't know if it's a standard, but in some near some schools, have the 25 limit speed Mhmm. Zoning thing around schools. Is that a California standard?

I don't know. Think I'm traffic engineer for that one.

Okay. Because there's a lot of schools now where I'm at. Like, we have there's a lot of side streets around schools, and there's not, like, a specific speed zone. So these cars fly through these streets when these kids are trying to walk to school.

Right. Is it a residential street? Yeah. Then it defaults to 25, period. When you have x amount of of residential, properties within a certain distance, it automatically defaults to 25

So what about like Brookhurst and Orange County?

Brookhurst, no. That has speed surveys, done. So you set the speed, then you'll see the signs of

speed

speed speed the the of of actual parking stalls, parking lots, path to travel, those type of things.

Okay. Yeah. Still priority two and priority three.

Okay. I just wanted to give a little feedback on what we had to do actually at Golden Hill. The SDC classrooms were in the lower parking lot. The majority of the drop offs and pickups and pickup line was up top. But we had they had to pour a a concrete path because the problem the problem of getting the students into those classrooms and aging, you know, we have aging infrastructure as well.

And so that has been a challenge as well. But also, too, the way that the the drop off and the pickup is, that could be also a reason why parents are asking specifically because some school sites are more challenging than others. Mhmm. And do we I've seen this in other cities, especially in La Habra. Do we use any of those signs that say traffic calmed area? Some of them have speed bumps, but I've seen them. I does that is that helpful at all? Is it

I I I think what we've used I'm sure there's more, but the one thing drops comes to my mind is the speed feedback signs. We have those in in many locations. And what I've heard from our traffic division and the people in the area, it has actually helped. It slows people down because they now visually see how quickly they're going and they slow down. Well, those actually we keep those no, no. I'm talking about the ones actually the solar ones amounted to the street lights, the permanent ones, not PD, yes, not the PD ones. Those do actually work, the permanent ones. They actually people do pay attention to them.

Vice Chair?

So my recommendation would be piggybacking on what member Choe had suggested of because I think priority one makes sense, but we don't want it to consume everything. A seventythirty mix, making sure that we've got some opportunity to spend on Priority two and three and that Priority one doesn't just trump the rest of it.

So I agree when it comes to Street projects, right? That's a given. We kind of have a separate pool of money. So let's just say we have this CIP project for citywide ADA. Is it just a combination of street right of way priority level two and three plus our public facilities one, two and three. Is it just kind of we have to try and fit in as much as we can across those items?

I think making sure we've got some mix of other projects and that just sidewalk repair doesn't eat the whole budget.

Got you. That makes sense. Yeah.

Which, overall, I don't think, anybody has said that your priority levels are wrong. I I think, by and large, everybody's supporting it. I think it's just making sure that that funding is spread around for all those.

Don't focus on one only.

So, is there let's see here. Let's see what's the action. Provide direction. Well, do you need a formal motion, or do you feel comfortable with the feedback that you've received?

I am fine with the feedback.

Okay. Do we need to receive and file the report?

We don't, but we do have a public comment.

We will take public comment.

Calling user. Go ahead.

Good evening again, everyone. Maureen Milton. The designation that, David was talking about is a certified access specialist. We have three of them on staff, and I affectionately call them CASPers. But it's it's c a s with a little p, meaning specialist.

But, anyway, everyone on the dais, if you ever get a chance to go to a certification class, go. When I went, my jaw dropped to the floor. I learned so much. It was absolutely fantastic. The gentleman that gave the class, which is continuing education for people that have a c CAS certification was was just wonderful.

If you ever get a chance, you will learn so much to help you make decisions at on the dias for for projects. I like the idea that David had of working from city hall outward for inside stuff. I think that's a fantastic idea. I need to talk to him about some things. But, unfortunately, I have a hunch I'm gonna have to have surgery before I get out in public again or something that happened to me.

So but, anyway, I do like the idea of, as I say, going outward. Also, when you were talking about the sidewalks, were you talking about, disappearing sidewalks or areas that didn't have sidewalks? I didn't understand that. So could you could you explain that one to me? Thank you. Bye.

Thank you. Any other requests?

No.

Okay. Turn it back over to staff to answer that last question.

Yeah. So when we talk about a gap closure, that means an area where there is no sidewalk, and it should connect to either sidewalk on the either side of it or connect to a facility. And there is no connection at that time or current time.

Okay. Thank you. All right. With that, we'll move on to item number three, infrastructure conditions and funding report.

Okay. So at the last meeting, we talked about bringing items for the committee to discuss and maybe update. And one of them recommended was the infrastructure conditions and funding report review. Some of you were part of this. There were hands raised. Who was part of was it just two? Was it just the chair and vice chair?

No. There were a few.

Yeah. I was gonna say, I thought there was more than that. I know that I gave this as homework to all new members, so I'm sure you guys spent a lot of time reviewing it and understand everything. But I'll do a quick review, so jog everyone's memory. So back in 2019, city council did task interact with a review of our infrastructure needs.

And there's a lot of internal discussion with the committee, and we basically ended up with trying to define what is public works infrastructure, what are deficiencies, funding priorities priorities for each of these deficiencies, how much funding we need, and then of course recommending how we could get that funding. So for the report, this is the list of items or assets that we came up with to define public works infrastructure. And you can read those on the screen. So we did complete the review and the report in 2020. There were two public outreach meetings in August and then in January.

The information is still on the website. There's the link for that so everyone can go back and read everything about the study, the study approach, the council meetings, and the full report. But we will summarize the findings now. So we broke our infrastructure needs down into different levels, level one, two, and three, a high need, a medium need, and a low need need. And the bottom line is we came up back in 2020 with a need of approximately $25,000,000 extra funding each year.

So these dollars are from 2020, but it gives you an idea of what we what was recommended to be in level one. So ADA that we just talked about, bridges, buildings, and streets. All the stuff is in alphabetical order, not necessarily priority order. Then we go into level two, alleys, tree maintenance, parking lots, trails, and drainage system. And then level three, which is really we looked at it and go, do we a lot of these had adequate funding at the time.

And so sewer system, which is in good shape, got we at the time felt like we were gaining enough revenue to keep that system moving along in an acceptable manner. Same thing with the water system with that time just received the rate increase. So once we got through priorities, the the levels, and the funding, it was how do we gain the funding. So these were the six ways the committee looked at having trying to find the additional $25 odd million. And then the final recommendation that was presented to council was a sales and use tax, basically a special sales tax specifically for infrastructure needs,

then, able to to

we're

going

do increase focus on economic development, And look at long term improvements in energy use, and set up a citizens review committee. But I will say that we've done some of this. We've definitely done some improvements in energy use. And the scrubbing the city budget, I think everyone knows, is done on an annual budget annual it's done annually trying to figure out how to get more money for the streets. So where are we at now?

If the committee would like to undertake this, these items you can consider or if you want to bring your own items to consideration to discuss. Do you want to revisit the infrastructure asset list, the priority levels, the funding needs, the funding sources? And then do you want to start engaging the community to educate them? Is there anything else that you would like to discuss or potentially revisit for this report and potentially update it?

All right. Well, I'll kick it off and just say those last three before the other. I think we definitely should. Asset funding needs, annual budget, funding sources, and community education engagement. I think those are absolutely critical. The others, I think, are well established, and I don't see any necessary any need to adjust those at this time. And with that, I'd open it up to comments from the committee. And, this time, I'll start on my left and start with, member Molina.

Welcome at this point, chairman.

K. Member Tuna?

I just wanna say I agree. The the last three should be definitely something we are focusing on, with a special focus on the community education engagement. I think it's just huge that we keep everybody involved, and that's been a big push for our committee. That's pretty much all I have right now.

You. Member Cho?

Thank you, Chair. So I think the feedback from the community is that there's a lot of mistaken belief that this is just a matter of willpower, right? If you only cared enough, you'd fix the streets. And now we know that that's not necessarily the case. There's significant shortfalls in the budget. It's been a while since I went to the City of Fullerton website specifically looking at street stuff. But is there something on the website where this report is hung or explains why the streets are the way they are?

The report is in there. You'd have to delve into the report. Is there something a little more accessible? No. That is something that's on my long list of things to do is to update the engineering website. And I'll just be honest, that hasn't been high on my priority list.

Yes. My recommendation then would be to make it, more high profile on the website because this is over and over again the number one issue on a lot of residents' minds, and there's a lot of mistaken belief that it's just a matter of willpower. So to spell some of the misinformation out there as to why the streets are the way they are. But secondly, I encourage you to translate the report into other languages like Spanish and Korean. Thank you.

Thank you. Vice Chair?

So I'll just a couple of things. One, I think on the party three list, part of those items that were there was because several had their own funding sources. And so it's, again, not that water systems aren't important or sewer systems, but part of this task was to identify kind of a new source of revenue. So if we're pursuing a new source of revenue, we're not going to put it towards the water system because that would be, you know, reviewing the that separate fund. But I would agree.

I I I think high on on the list is is just updating those numbers because I I know myself, I keep going to the well, I I mean, at one point, was 12,000,000 a year for Streets, and and the cost of everything has gone sky high. So that's my big concern of talking too much about these numbers without a really good update on making sure that these projections are correct. And and I don't know, to the point of of education, there's an interesting video that was put up by the Fullerton observer at one point that had a nice kind of summarized history. There may be updates to that or some information, but that may be an interesting starting point because I do believe we do a good job of having information available, but people have to sort through it. How do we make it digestible?

And that could be a collaboration with the Fullerton Observer or even a project to engage with some students from Cal State Fullerton to look at better strategies of of communicating that. But it's it is an interesting piece if if people haven't seen it. Thank you.

Member Wozeb?

I have a question. I'm in full agreement with these last three items. In regards to the funding sources, is that would that be kind of looked into a little delved into a little further with this new committee that has been formed that city council is forming in this advisory committee?

I mean potentially.

Potentially.

Open for discussion here.

How would you do So they're supposed to

be Okay.

So they're supposed to be looking at this. So in regards to I know that some people were still appointing to that committee. What is the timeline possibly on some type of report or recommendations from them? Do you have any idea?

I am not aware of that.

They've yet to meet, so I don't think there's any schedule.

Question is in regards to what we did mention this sales tax. If I remember correctly, it was the 1%. It was put forth on the ballot without a specific earmark. It was actually supposed to be going into the general fund. But since, there's now been an infrastructure set aside. Is that is that correct? And if this is I mean, I I do think that being specific and earmarking, especially when you're talking to, you know, the residents and taxpayers, I think it's really important that we're

I will say that was a big, big discussion from the committee back in the day.

Right. There was

a lot of different opinions

Yes.

Before we came to this recommendation.

Right. But I was just I was just clarifying if that's if we're revisiting that

previous It's

it's really up to

guys what what you think is beneficial or you just want to say, hey. That was great. Let's move on. It it's I'm really just pushing it

that you guys have done

come with this. Back because it's high time to dust it off and Yeah. And make some adjustments. And there are some new members that didn't weigh in on this that I think should be heard at this time. And, well, maybe it's not, politically correct or the timing is terrible for for the political, implications. Regardless, it's something that we need to discuss and we need to develop a plan for. Now if anybody wants to do anything with it, that's up to them. But Right. As far as this body is concerned, I think this is within our charge, and and we should absolutely be doing everything we can to make sure that the funding is there for the infrastructure.

And I think we all agree it's dusty.

And I'll move on to Member Bardwaja.

I think we've got an ad hoc budget committee every year in early I think the next one is in early twenty twenty five, so they'll be discussing some of these things, correct? That I am I'm pretty sure that's taking place. I could be wrong. But since we are absolutely in rock, I think you've done a pretty good job the way you've listed everything. And I think you've been pretty good about equitable assessment, equitable application.

Has there been any updates due to some of the mandates that may have been passed? For instance, I think the governor and some other people are really pushing like municipalities to start using EV heavy duty vehicles and equipment, which is kind of far fetched and seems a little cart before the horse, unintended. But those things are really affecting a lot of municipalities. And it's something that, as a side note, there may not be a backbone or infrastructure in place for. How is that going to affect these numbers? Because from what I read, it was pretty ridiculously large, some of the expenditures that would be needed.

Yes. It's a good point on the electric vehicles. Over the I think by 2040, I think we have to have 50% of our fleet, even the big vehicles that don't right now, some of them don't exist. And of course, now we we're already looking into how do we, modify our yard to provide old EV charges. So we're we're looking through that and what the cost is. Now there's there's some money available from SCE, but there's pros and cons with that. They want control of the system. Don't necessarily want to give up control of the system on our property. Yes, there's absolutely going to be some big costs there. The sewer system is not getting gaining the revenue it did four years ago.

People are not using as much water. So revenue goes down, costs go up. So I think it is some of these will definitely need discussion as to whether they change other levels.

You know, the I do actually sit and have regular meetings through my regular day job, actually, with the city of Los Angeles. And some of the mandates are being pushed forth and some of the things that are being expected. I mean, it's a lot. And there's a lot of problems that are coming up with infrastructure, unthought of issues such as parking structures can't hold the additional weight of these vehicles. We have to be retrofitted to hold everything from conduit to charger weight.

So absolutely is what we're seeing with cars actually going up very quickly and not being able to be put out very quickly. So when I look at some of the things here, like you're talking about vehicles and equipment, it looks like the recommended funding of $6,100,000 Does that include any of that? Or I mean

No. A bin. No. Absolutely. That wasn't And

are there any mandates that are coming up earlier than the 2040 mandate that you know of?

Well, I mean, the mandate's in place right now. You're just having to ramp up your replacement schedule. So I mean, we're starting to buy EV cars Correct. Vehicles. And all our landscape equipment is battery powered now. So we've had to stop buying that instead of switching.

Then you'll have to deal with the maintenance issues later with all of that and recycling, hopefully, or something. So okay, just want to make sure that was on your radar because, like I said, we're seeing a lot of stumbling blocks, everything from equipment not being available, equipment that's not operating the way it was promised, to large expenditures of money. And then you also have to spend money on just the background, like the back end networks to monitor the vehicles, to monitor how they work and all that. So thank you.

Thank you. Member Valencia? No comment. Alright. So I'll open it up to anything else? Member? Sure. I just

I I wanna do a little bit

of a history. I don't wanna get too far down here, but let's pull up the 1% slide because I so I've I've been on on INRAC and CERC before INRAC since 02/2010. Back in the day, there was no conversation at to my observation at at council about roads, and we were frustrated with that. And it it's been an issue that has been important to me and an an issue that's import been important to to NRAC and CERC before us, which we got to a point where counsel said, we want to report from you. And not just about infrastructure, but how are we going to fund this thing.

And so I will well, maybe not so political, but here's my position as a resident. As a committee, we discussed the general fund. And so if if if you have a general tax sales tax increase, that means that council can direct those funds to go where they might. And we felt that that was or I'll say I felt that that that that was gonna be hard to to justify. It's a lower threshold.

The dedicated sales tax requires a higher threshold, twothree, rather than the 50 plus one. But people had confidence that if we said infrastructure, it would go infrastructure. And so that was a a discussion, and that discussion went into the recommendation. At the end of the day, the decision that was made from counsel, which was supported by consultants that came in and made a recommendation to say that the special tax that had the higher threshold had a lower likelihood of passing, that we can get through the 50 plus 1% increase. And, you know, we folks would support that.

We we can get at least, you know, 55 or whatever the percentage that they they they said it would go through. And with that, counsel, despite our recommendation, went forward with it. And as a this is my observation. As a result, the committee was I wasn't positioned to advocate for that increase. I mean, all something that I've been fighting for for years and years and years, because there just wasn't a confidence that those funds would go to it.

I mean, even in the course of conversations, the definition of infrastructure expanded, conversations about technology and other things, things that we need to spend money on. But folks want the roads fixed. And with the roads, there's some other categories of infrastructure you can put in there. So that became the concern. And the combination was this additional fund.

So any new funds coming to city council or or, you know, coming to the city would be allocated with a priority or majority of of those funds going towards infrastructure. That's a nice safeguard, but city council has the discretion to change the rules on that. And so, again, you don't have the same safeguard as a sales tax increase that's dedicated to infrastructure as as as a vote by the residents of the city. So so that's a little bit of the history and and something we need to be concerned about. Council has since over has has since changed over, and this is nothing against council members specifically.

But I think it's our responsibility as a committee. We're putting recommendations forward. And so our responsibility is to make sure this information is fresh, to to make sure that the council is positioned to to help make those wrong decisions. And if they need more information from us in terms of a a a strategy, you know, that that's fine. You know, I I I think that this committee is is up to the task.

But it's it's not always palatable to say we need to spend million tens of millions of dollars more each year when there's not the money for it. Unfortunately, you know, we've got forty years of not spending on the roads that we've got to catch up on. So those are my 2¢.

I'll just add, that was a great synopsis of of the history. I got you beat slightly on, how long I've been on the committee, but I did take a little break from the committee. So, I guess you got me overall. I would like to see this come back with those updates on the funding needs, get those numbers updated. And then I would like to have some further discussion amongst the committee members on funding sources and talk about that engagement a little more. And I'll make that a motion.

I'll second.

Motion and second. Madam Clerk?

Chair Seaborne?

Aye.

Vice Chair Alcantara?

Yes.

Member Bart Waja?

I'm just gonna abstain because I was in the restroom. Sorry.

Okay. Member Cho?

Aye.

Member Molina?

For Yes.

Specific. Member Tuna?

Aye.

Member Valencia? Yes. Member Wozab? Yes. Member Miranda is absent.

Thank you. I would also open this up for public comment if any member of the public would like to talk about it.

There are no hands raised.

Okay. We'll bring it back to the committee. And with that, I think we'll move on to item number four, CIP project status.

All right. So my regular updates. Here's the projects that are in design or bidding phase. We'll be ramping up some of the street design to be shelf ready, but we're trying to knock out some of the smaller projects right now while we ramp up for springtime. I will say though for Project nine, the Nutwood ATP, we received five qualifications from consultants to do the design.

So we'll start looking at those sometime this week, I think. I was actually surprised. I thought we would get more. Five is okay. Water has a lot of projects going. There's actually more in very preliminary stages than shown on the screen. I'm just showing the ones that are very active in design. And then in construction, wrapping up, Las Palmas was, I think, was striping this week. So we're we're almost done up there. That's, hopefully, everyone's happy with that, and we're making a big mess down on Orangethorpe with the water main right now.

But I'm actually happy with the contractor. They're wanting to get done as quickly as possible. So I am very confident we'll have that street done before it rains, which is why I really need it to be done. Other miscellaneous projects going on, miscellaneous storm drain lining projects, they're going to start construction next week. There's we're basically lining CMP or corrugated metal pipes and we're doing some repairs of the pipes that run between people's properties, some very interesting locations where these pipes run.

Fortunately, we've got some very understanding residents. The AFI building at the airport should be done by Christmas. So Brendan is going to get a nice Christmas present. He can move into his new office. Okay. PD renovation, we're working through the paperwork for the grant application or the grant approval. We have the money. We just have to work through all the paperwork on that. It's actually quite a lot of paperwork to get to the money. But working through that and figuring out the actual scope of work within the budget.

The transportation work, transportation center work should be the vast majority of it should be done by the December. There's a lot of work going on over the next couple of months out there. And then the new block walls Indy Park start next week. Alright. Staffing.

So slight change. My associate engineer positions come up as vacant because I promoted them to civil engineers. So we do have an internal recruitment out to hopefully see if our assistant engineers are qualified and would like to step up to be associate engineers. And then hopefully, can backfill with assistant engineers because that's a heck of a lot easier to try and fill than any other level. Kind of the same thing across the board.

Private development, the civil engineer is vacant because we promoted that position to underfill Mr. Zavala's previous position. So we'll best way to backfill some of these open positions with what we have. That's it for CIP update. Take any comments or questions?

All right.

Question.

Yes. Member Wozab. Could you could you tell me I see there's a Harbor Light Sync project. I'm cross my fingers that it's where I'm hoping it is. Where's the Harbor Boulevard signal sync?

That would be the entire length of Harbor Boulevard

Okay.

Including other cities.

Okay.

Plus more of a regional synchronization. So as you go through Anaheim Uh-huh. Bulletin, I think the harbor is part of it as well.

So they

just kind of time everything through there. So, hopefully, if you hit the timing right, you just keep going.

I was gonna say, but can you take into consideration the Bray Boulevard? Harbor Bray Boulevard intersections.

That's part of it.

Would be lovely. Thank you.

Yeah. It should be it should be the every signal along within our boundaries, it will be part of the project. Thank you. Yes, Member.

Hey, David, what were there are a couple of intersections where a I don't remember if it was one of the city staff that came in and spoke about it or someone else where they're putting in the smart traffic lights to see like if there's still a car in the middle of the intersection where delays switching and whatnot. I think they're going to put one at Euclid and Chapman or Malvern. I forget where it switches. But it might

So the new signal is going at Euclid and Rosecrans. Okay. So if it's going anywhere, it's going there.

And so nothing's out there yet?

Not that I'm aware of.

Okay. I

haven't been told that.

And that's when word will read actual, like, pedestrians or

Mhmm. Okay.

Thank you. Well, we're I'm planning on bringing the city traffic engineer next meeting, so you can you can grill them on that one.

We'll do

it. Thanks. Question.

You know, I wanna thank you for, fixing the traffic signal at Lemon And Brea Boulevard. So now when you're heading south on Brea Boulevard, you can turn left and go up the hill to Lemon, on Lemon. It used to just take forever in the morning taking kids to school. So thank you. I appreciate that. I I now get back about ten more minutes of my morning. Alright. Any other comments,

mister chairman? I just would like to clarify the, about the sewer project on the Santa Fe parking lot. Where exactly is this located? Is this near the train station?

Yeah. So it's it's the Northwest of the train station. It's right behind the buildings, the Williams Company building. It's right behind there. The sewer goes there's a little pedestrian alley. The sewer goes through that alley. And it also, goes through the parking lot to pick up those buildings. And that pipe is old. So we just need to replace it.

Any idea how old the pipe is?

I don't know exactly how old that is. I just know there's I mean, it's functioning, but it's got a few breaks in it. So it it'd just be better from a maintenance standpoint. It's a six inch pipe, so we wanna replace it to an eight inch so it's easier to clean and maintain. Alright.

Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Any other comments? Do we need to anybody from the public on this one? Any public comment?

Of the public, but if you could receive and file.

Yep. We'll deem it received and filed unless there's opposition. Hearing none, we'll do that. And we'll go to staff and committee communication.

So I did just let you know that I am working and I'm working on an agreement with the contractor that we did the pavement treatment projects with, the slurry seal that was recently done, over the summer, slightly thicker slurry seal, to do a pilot project where we do Type three slurry, which is thick, big aggregate and then a Type two slurry on top of that. They're claiming, for lack of a better term, that we can put that on PCI 30 streets. And there'll be minimal reflective cracking, and it'll hold the street together. So I'm doing a short street and kind of a cul de sac street. I plan on doing that next month and then seeing how it holds up over the winter as to see if it's a pass really a viable option for some of our residential streets as a lot cheaper way of trying to help get our streets to hold them together, for a number of years.

They're they're gonna send me some photos of a project they did in LA six years ago. So they're gonna show me the before, the during, and now the six years later to see. I've been pretty happy with the product that we've put down from them, so I have high hopes for this. It's not everywhere. I don't think it's going to be something we do everywhere. I think it has its place. Lower volume streets, I think, is the way to go. A collector street through a neighborhood, probably not so much, but we'll see.

What about alleys?

Potentially. Yeah. Might be. It might it might be a good good shot for an alleys.

I mean, considering that we don't spend anything on alleys. Right. Obviously, if there's a big crosscutter down the center, then that creates a different problem. But okay.

Yeah. I mean, there's Roy Allen Slurry actually made the same comment to the city when we did our slurry steel project that instead of ARAM, this is an option too. So I'm really interested to see an option. So we're trying different ways other than the conventional tried and true for lack of a better term. I think there's ways of changing it up and still getting a good product that's economical and still functions for the city.

Great. Thank you.

I wanna thank you, David, for, you know, thinking out of the box and being willing to try. And because we just we have so many we have so many challenges. It you know, for all of us I can't speak for all of us. But anyways, it it means a lot to us that you're constantly looking at different ways, building relationships with these vendors, and and having these conversations, hard conversations, because I'm sure they're they may be able to do work at other cities that don't have as many challenges as we do. And so the fact that you've built these relationships with these different vendors and they you know, you have collaboration, it it really means a lot to to to me, and I know that it would to the residents as well. So thank you.

Yep. Alright. Any other communications from the committee? Mister chairman? Member Molina. I'm sorry.

Yeah. I just would like to, thank you, the, the engineers for, looking into the issue that I brought out the last meeting about the outgrowth at the, yeah, at the it it is between Albertson and Gilbert. And I I went there the other way the other day, and the the the the outcome has been cut already, and it's now safer for motorists to merge. So thank you. Thank you for that.

We went the next day, the islands, to eat. It was already done.

Yeah. Member of Valencia.

Question, David. Are you working with Parks and Rec on any of the stuff for the parks that you're trying to make ADA?

Yes. Absolutely. So when there's a park project, we work, I've worked very hard to work closely with them. So during the design phase, we implement everything that we need to implement, try to make a project that's buildable and maintainable. In the past, it was a lot of disconnect. So I think now we spend a lot of time making sure that we build something that meets all the code requirements.

Okay. Perfect. And then do you guys, like, allocate funds together?

Yes. So park projects, typically, we'll just use park dwelling funds. So an improvement, they're paying for the upgrades. It's not coming out of any other part.

But we would be like the parking lot and the ramps

and The the parking lot, if it's a maintenance issue, will come out of public works. If it's more part of a bigger upgrade and modification, park dwelling may pay for some of it.

Okay. Thank you.

Yes. Vice chair. I'll just echo thanks to you, David, for your efforts and the experimentation on on different materials. I think that's that's gonna be invaluable in the long term of providing some different strategies. And then just a heads up. I'm gonna be out of town next for next meeting. So just want to make sure folks

know Has that been approved?

That is yes. By my wife. So just because we wanna make I don't I wanna make sure we don't lose quorum. So just a heads up for folks.

Thank you. Appreciate it. I had a question. When you're talking about replacing sidewalks, it's something occurred to me. It's a little inside baseball, so to speak. But survey markers that are on the sidewalk, how do you handle those? I mean, they're out there. Do we just trust that the contractor is gonna look for them and do something?

Or No. No. We we, as a city, we use our surveyors to perpetuate the monuments. So I trust my engineers when they're out there that they see them. I know there's some just little mark like, in my house, you see the little marks that give you a guide. But the yeah. I I trust our engineers that they're seeing them and addressing those.

Okay. I have some concerns about that.

I'll ram it home to them tomorrow.

Well, here's the thing. And I I do trust that they are looking. I have no doubt about that. There's been enough public outreach to the civil engineering community over the last, probably, ten to fifteen years through a number of organizations, including the, ASCE and CLSA and a bunch of other alphabet soup organizations. But what concerns me is when they're right at the the back of walk and they're just below grade.

There you go.

And when you tear out the sidewalk, they're getting damaged. And and I'm problem. And maybe it's it's anecdotal, but I've seen in in several cases, and actually not in Fullerton specifically, but in other cities where there was nobody looking. The contractor comes out, tears out the sidewalk because they're doing their job. And those monuments sometimes are attached to the sidewalk they were moving. And that obviously, that's a problem because nothing's being replaced. Nobody saw it beforehand, and the contractor's certainly not gonna report it after the fact because they don't wanna pay. Right. And they are legally on the hook for that. It's in the green book.

They know that they're not supposed to touch it or at least they should. But that is a a concern I have. And when we're talking sidewalks, I just wanna make sure that that's factored into it. And there might be some things that, the survey community can provide to, the city, no cost, some training and some ideas, and maybe the city buys some, very inexpensive equipment that they can learn how to use and just for detecting the monuments. So I can pass that along to you after the the meeting, but it was something I was. You were talking about, and I wanna bring it up. And I figured this is probably a better time than any. Alright. I think that concludes it. Any parting thoughts? Okay. Thank you very much. And we will adjourn till our November meeting.

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