Police Accountability Board Agendas - Regular Meeting

Say the mic that you're ready

to start. Oh, ready to start. We're gonna call to order. Call call me to order, and we're gonna go over the agenda items, and I'll be asking for a motion to approve the agenda, approval of the minutes from 2025, the election of advice, discussion with law enforcement agencies, thank you all for coming, a vote on the administrative charging committee appointment and trial board, Administrative Charting Committee quarterly update, discussion of the rules of procedure, and discussion of the annual report, and just administrative update, and public comments if we have any. Anybody?

We have a motion for the agenda to go forward? Approve. Approve it? Okay. Approval of the minutes. Everybody got a copy from the July 16? Any questions, any additions or corrections we need to make to it? Everybody good? Got a motion for

Motion for approval. Second.

Okay, approved. All in

favor? Favor?

Yeah, all in favor. Aye. Aye. Okay. My apologies. It's

your first time.

Yep. Election of a vice chair. We have to do today, according to the rules and procedures that today, or this meeting is to actually elect a new vice chair. Does anyone have, anyone that wants to come forward and become the the chair or vice chair? Anyone?

Anyone wanna throw their name in the hat for vice chair?

Neil? No one's gonna volunteer. I will. Then I'll do it again. I'm fine. I will volunteer again.

Alright.

Now you need a motion to appoint Neil as the vice chair.

Right. We need a motion to elect Neil as vice chair. Second. All in favor? Aye. Okay. Moving right along, discussion with the law enforcement agencies. Would y'all like to come forward so we can talk? Thank you all for coming too. I know everybody has busy days now. We really appreciate it. We proposed some questions previously to the law enforcement agencies. Sir, can you hit those?

Okay. I will go ahead and ask the questions. First of all, to we have lieutenant Corrado from the Frederick Police Department, lieutenant Hyatt from Frederick County Sheriff's Office, chief Armstrong from the Thurmont Police Department here for here for us today. So the first question, does your agency feel that the PAB has been engaging well with your agencies?

Surprise. Yeah.

No issues to report?

But are they engaging? I guess that's the question. Are we actually coming to you not only in these meetings but at other times.

So I know last quarter, there were some questions about participating events, and I believe we coordinated for national night out, which was upcoming. And then also, I think there was a request for ride alongs. So I set that up with our patrol commander. I don't know who amongst the group has taken part of that or wants to take part of that.

I know I've done it with the Brunswick Police Department, but I've also asked for, I think, for Frederick, but I haven't gotten to it. I've had some family issues to take care of, but I'm going to do that. And also, we've been going to the National Night Out. We also did the Pride Day, and I did Brunswick Railroad Days, so we're trying to get our board to engage with y'all and educate the public, where there are actually residents at, or other places, on what we're doing and how we do have a complaint system. We do have the ability to process it outside of the law enforcement agencies where they're advocates or try to give them a better feel for what we can do for them.

So, we're educating them. We got some pamphlets, some cards, other things that we give them to make sure they know. Not to say, Hey, go write a report, but it's just to educate them. It's their it's their their decisions whether they wanna use it or not. But we're trying to educate. We're trying to get out out there, and I think we're we're doing a good job. We're not where we wanna be, but we're getting there. Yeah.

Do does your agencies have events, groups, or meetings that PAB or ACC members may attend?

Probably goes right to the other questions. Perhaps biannually coming to an in service with the officers just so they can see there's a face beyond the PAB and who they are and what their mission is. And then maybe also biannually at a town meeting, we can schedule so you can present and give the every two years we have elections in Thurmont, so there'll be new elected officials and they can put it on the agenda. So if the public wants to come, they can they can attend that night also. So it's would be my suggestions.

If we can make sure that Sarah gets the dates and times, then we will, if any way possible, we'll have somebody there to talk about what we do. And hopefully, that way we are getting the message out.

Very good. Yeah, now just would like to have some faces actually come and talk to the officers

because Right. Mhmm.

The PAB is this big mystery to them, and it's full of people that like, when I first came to my first PAB, I expected to find a bunch of mean people that were out to get me. And as I've said before, I was quite happy to come and find a bunch of people who were busy about taking part in in making Frederick County law enforcement work. So if we could have those faces come to our end service, I would certainly like that. Yep. Don't need it every year, but maybe every two years. We're done for this year, but we we're scheduling for next year. Okay.

I know I've done it with Brunswick's four or something where they did an all call. You know? And every time I get a chance, I I try to to engage with them on the street, like, they do we do events there or something to make sure they know who I am and what we're doing. Because I am I was you know, as we first started out, we tried to get a representative from each one of the the towns within Frederick County. So it was really good that they knew who who their face was, you know, and hopefully just demystify the PAB. You know?

Yeah. And to piggyback what you said, that's a that's a great idea with the the in service. We have in service a couple times a year also. I think there there was that stigma of, you know, what is the PAB and how are they gonna, you know, view the officers at any agency. So I think that'd be a great idea. And then I talked chief lender just specific for Frederick, but he has a chief's advisory board. They're actually meeting tonight. They meet, four times a year. Right now, it's made up of 60 residents in the city, but he was more than willing to have a couple members of the PAB on his chief's advisory board, and they make the topics quarterly of what they wanna see and and officers from, you know, different agencies come and present things or or topics or agendas. So that's another way for you to interact with the chief and other officers.

Yeah. So he's more than willing to accept a couple of you, on his board also.

Okay. We'll we'll get out there. Okay. We just wanna make sure we get the messaging right, and then we're all saying the same thing, you know, what we do and how we do it. And as long as we can do that and also demystify so they know that we're an unbiased group of people who are actually trying to help, you know, because it is our time too. You know, we're volunteering to to do this, to to come up here, but also to make sure that we're we're, like his chief said, making an impact, you know, and try to do the right thing. And I think we're getting, I think, pretty good feedback from what what we've seen for the people who know us. Okay, sir.

The next question kind of ties in with the last one, and that's if your agency has any events, groups, or meetings that you would like myself, the executive administrator, to attend or to speak at.

Yeah. I think we hit that. Yeah. Yeah. If

you think of something or there's anything that comes up where you would like my presence, please let me know, and I will I will do everything I can to be there.

And I, yeah, I think the ACC would do the same thing. Think we'd get us all there, and that way we can walk through the process of what we do and which parts which. You know? I think that would be helpful.

Does your agency see training needs that you don't feel are being offered or funded? I

am unaware of any.

Okay.

Does your aide

One second. Sorry.

I was just gonna echo that. We're every year, we get a new batch of mandatory training from the training commission. We just got some today on some new things that will be added next year, but I know Frederick City does it, and I know the county does it. We do a lot of lot of training. I can't think of anything that's currently unfunded.

So yeah. But that would be something that we could help with, you know, to advocate for it, make sure you've gotten our report if we find something and it's leading to issues, you know. I mean, or you feel there's a shortage that you can't get solved that we can make sure we put in our report so that, you know, the county's saying at different levels that they need help in this area. So we would really appreciate it. Alright. I think it it makes us more we can use more leverage to help you, you know, and but I I I I understand your your comment about, you know, the mandatory training. Sometimes it's, you know, spotting.

That is one of your tasks to identify areas that need training.

We have

Any suggestions where you can

make think the ACC will maybe be able to put some light on that through the last couple boards that we sit through. And but we'll wait till they they come up. K. Go ahead.

So I I teach at Mount Saint Mary's, and we have a criminal justice program. And we spend a lot of time thinking about what a lot of our students go into law enforcement careers. And we often discuss what police will need as they go into their careers. And one area that we often bring up has to do with self care stress management. Do you get enough training for that?

And the other area is there are dimensions of diversity that often aren't emphasized as much as others, disability, age, those kinds of things? Do you see any needs for more programming or training for sort of looking after the mental health and emotional health of law enforcement, things like that. And then also some of the sort of second, I hate to say it, but it is sort of second tier dimensions of diversity, because everything's race, class, gender, sexuality, but for example, disability. Are there needs there for additional training?

So for the mental health component, I believe a few years ago, Maryland passed something along the lines of either annual or biennial training, and I think every agency complies with that. I think the other part as far as interactions with folks with disabilities or things of that nature, I know both Frederick City and the sheriff's office are CLIA accredited organizations. And we have to do training on that every year for all personnel that interact with the public.

Are some agencies Yes.

So depending on we don't do the same training every single year. It might be one group year one, a different group year two, things of that nature. Are you talking about mobile crisis or two one one or Yes. So that so there are folks from that organization. I don't I think there might be a funding issue now.

I'm not certain. But as far as, like, they would do not they weren't ride alongs. Like, they were actually working. That was part of their day. And for incidents involving mental health episodes, that unit would deploy.

They were they were Internet access that if you if you solve the situation

Correct.

Or or whatever. I think that's hopefully, that's helpful.

I'm gonna be cynical. Yeah. Because I spent some time talking to military people too. You know, there there's required trainings in compliance with that. Is is is that sit through the PowerPoint politely, or is it actual training that meets the law enforcement officers' actual needs? Are you talking like the mental health aspect? For example, sure, or dealing with different disabilities. I mean, this is sort like, yes, we showed the PowerPoint, and now everyone has been trained, or is it actually meeting a felt need?

So like all training, mean, sometimes when it's mandatory, you're not getting the most out of it. But at least for us, do have for the mental health training is we do have a full time employee within our agency that's a mental health and resiliency coach, who officers are able to meet with confidentiality rules all apply. And then we have other almost like self help groups within the agency that offer financial support, you know, dietary or nutrition type, you know, physical 15, critical incident. We have a crisis intervention team or a crisis stress management team. So a lot of they're not trained, but they're organizations kind of within the agencies, and I believe the other agencies have those as well.

You all have access to that at Vermont?

Yes. We don't have we don't have in house, but we piggyback with the county with their programs and their apps. And we have a contracted with the organization that does our biannual psychological evaluations evaluations for critical incident evals or critical incident consultations with them as well. But are you I think you're looking more for dealing with citizens who have disabilities. Is that correct?

No. We'll go ahead too.

Yeah. Okay.

There's two sides of it. Right? Yeah. Course. You have to be healthy. All said Yeah. Yeah. So,

Kim, were you were you thinking about, like, experiment experiential learning like we do in the mediation training when I used to do the mediation training for the city many, many moons ago? We used to do the role plays and those kinds of things so that the officers could really feel what was going on.

For example, and then also,

I mean, my my oops.

I just turned it off. For example, that that kind of training, but also some of the things that you described sound very valuable, but also very reactive and also very optional. Like, it's there if you need it, if you care to access it, if if something has happened.

So you're talking about more of a proactive

Some yeah. Something like that. So, I mean, I I would encourage you to think about sort of proactive, more not death by PowerPoint types of trainings that that that might be beneficial, that that that, you know, people can carry with them and and that that don't depend on something haven't haven't know, something has gone wrong.

And I think you I think there's a couple of good examples nationwide where, you know, individual was shot because they were, a kid with learning disabilities but held a you know, it looked like a real gun, you know, and officers responded to it instead of realizing, you know, this guy's you know, is it real or not? And and, you know, I have to figure out how to talk to this individual to, you know, get a dialogue going so you can actually find out whether it's a real weapon or not. Sometimes, I know an officer doesn't have the the capability or the time to do that. Sometimes they just react, you know? But, yeah.

If he's especially if he's on your beat or in your town or something, I mean, we see these people, you know, day in, day out sometimes, I think. But I guess it's be for y'all to take back and see if that would be beneficial or not. Yeah. Good.

So Just tagging on that that the town of Thurmont, we're we have big advantage over Frederick City and the county is that we're a small

Right.

Agency. So we are very familiar with the people in our town that have issues, and we'll get a phone call that there's some person downtown acting crazy. And, we see that it's somebody that we know that has a issue with schizophrenia, and they're walking down the street talking to themself. And to the outside person, they seem like

Right.

The police need to do something. But the reality is that's their daily life, and that's how they function. So

And Brotherhood has the same situation. They're small too. You know? So they they know most of the people within the city limits. So it's good that they're aware of it and that they are aware of the people so that they can act accordingly, you know, when they have an issue, right, or call about

And even down to the people who are diabetic and, you know, their blood sugar's off and you come across them and they're staring at you like they're gonna about to attack you or something, but, you know, again, because we're in a smaller community, we know who they are. We can walk down the street, knock on their parents' door, and and have them come and and take care of the situation. But, we are we're reactive by nature, the police. I can't we cannot prepare in advance for every situation. So a lot of stuff we do is reactive, but that's really the nature of the of what we do. So

Yeah. So

two questions. One, for my own sanity, in service, explain that at its base level. I want to make sure that my what I believe it is is what it actually is. So you mentioned biannual in service.

Right.

So I wanna make sure I understand what you mean.

Maryland requires eighteen hours of continuing education in service training. It also requires a day of firearms and then your actual firearms as an at a minimum of that. So they have courses that are required annually. They have courses that are required biannually, and they have courses that are courses that are required every three years. Some of them, they have suggested outlines for the training for.

Some, they don't. But you have to prepare the lesson plan, and you submit it to the training commission. And if it meets their criteria, then they sign off on it and that's an accredited course that you can teach. Each course is credited for three years. So if we did a Americans with Disabilities training and we got it Signed off.

Certified with the training commission. And in three years, we would have to renew it, or we could do it sooner. But that course is good for for three years. We normally do we're probably twenty four hours of training, three eight hour days, plus the firearms, plus the range days with firearms. We also have a new training director who has got us into Frederick High School this year and then I'm not Catoctin High School this year and previously was the Thurmont Middle School going over active shooter stuff inside each school.

So those things he sticks in for four hours a day just in the middle of your Mhmm. I mean, not a scheduled in service day. He just throws it in, and then whatever team is off goes. So it's eighteen hours mandatory. You have to cover those courses. Yep. Sometimes it's a short year. Sometimes they all line up, and you have, like, eighteen hours of mandatory Yeah. Back to back. Training.

But have I gone off course on your

No. That answers my question. I appreciate the clarification. No. I promise if you want if you started going somewhere else, I I would have said something.

And, again, each agency is responsible for developing its training. They do offer some some premade trainings that you can you can base

off of. Right into my second question. I didn't mean to cut you off, chief. I apologize.

I'm ready for question.

So that leads into my my second question. We talked about training. We talked about annualized training, things of that nature. Unfortunately, for me, because the Marine Corps is its own beast, I understand that you'll have your mandatory required trainings, and it's staffed by PowerPoint as mentioned here earlier. And depending on where you go, different units, things of that nature, in this case, enforcement agencies, my question goes to, is the training the same across the board?

Is it standard? I know you talked about various vendors that you guys go through. But if someone gets mental health training at Thurmont, is it the exact same course that someone at Frederick City, f c the sheriff's office, Brunswick, and are there and the the add addendum to that part right there because I clicked on my head is are there specific courses of training that you guys do individually within your own agencies that you think might be beneficial for your other for the other agencies within the county?

So for the first part, pre click Yeah. I I would say there are certain objectives that need to be met by the state. Mhmm. However, it's no different than if I cook a meal for dinner and you cook the same meal for dinner, they might end up tasting a little bit differently. But the certain objectives have to be met. And

just one topic on that, like Sure. Defensive driving or the pursuit driving. There's not a requirement once you're through the academy. Our guys go every every third year. Our guys cycle through. And I know Frederick City guys cycle through. But there's just so much so many aspects of police work that I don't think the training commission can incorporate all of them. Mhmm. And if they did, we would do nothing but

Training.

Mandatory training. Every other week, you'd be in training. But that's just one example of what like, of force Mhmm. Training. They require use of force training. What we do we rotate through. One year is baton training. One year is OC spray refresher. Next, taser is every year. But each year, another year is ground fighting. We try to rotate those through even though Maryland doesn't say exactly what you should do. And I know the county and I know the city does it. So when I was at the city, we would send people to the hospital regularly from the DT trainings for dislocations and broken bones.

I appreciate that. You answered my question. Thank you. K, ma'am.

Does your agency provide, or is there a body language training?

So the sheriff's office does not. I have never seen a body language specific training course. I have seen it covered in other courses. If if one were to take a class on, like, interview and interrogation, identifying deceptive behavior, it might appear as a segment within that, but I've never seen a, like, body language specific course.

Is there anything more specific on that? Whoever had that question that they were looking for?

I I don't know who brought the question up, but I will say that there was comments before. I I I'm almost positive that during some of the, body camera footage, you you could see the individual's, you know, body language was definitely saying something, you know, and I think the officer was missing in the queue. But, you know, at and but as time went by, it it it got back together where he knew what the what the individual was doing and all. I don't want to talk about specific cases, but, you know, it's just it would have been better if he was and, you know, like you said, they got so much that's going on there. You're either calling or listening, and also questioning the person.

And, sometimes there there's not a there's not a way to to see if they're looking at that or not. But I think the person was trying to say this, you know, would it be beneficial because, you know, like, deceptive when during an interrogation. You you know, a lot of times, it's either eyes down or, you know, the body language where they're, you know, they're feeling uncomfortable. They're tapping their legs or something, and, you know, they're trying to, you know, trying to figure out something. Other it's just things that you see on TV that you know, people are saying something, but the person in the room or or the car is not seeing it.

You

know? So sort of making sure, the body language, or what we would call in my world, the nonverbal language matches what's being said. And there are times when I'm in a high conflict situation that I'll literally say to the person, I'll say, so I'm not real sure what's going on right now because your body language and what's coming out of the verbal language is very different. And I want to make sure I really understand what's going on before I say something or make a move or whatever. So can you help me understand what's happening?

So are we dealing with body language and nonverbal? And then there's also, when I taught at the Mount, I taught the NLP class, the neurolinguistic programming classes, for students who were in the criminal justice department about watching people's their pulses in their necks and their veins in their faces and the perspiration and where their eyes are going when they're talking so you know that there might be something going on. So all of that, is that all part of what you're trying

to I think that's what we're going say. Something else in that area. I think that's what the person was trying to get to if he didn't have it.

Last but not least, do you have any additional information that you would like to add or discuss with us? I know somebody's ready for a vacation, so I know they're looking at the door.

I'm sorry. I thought I had it down. But you're seeing us grow and also being more receptive with the try to figure out what what we can do for you. And are we doing a good job? I mean, truth be told at the end of the year, right, or anytime something pops up. But if there's a way we can engage with your agencies or town, we'd love to be able to do that. Like I said, Sarah or me or anyone or individual from that area if you have one. You know, I know we've changed out a lot, you know, over the last two or three years. But, hopefully, we still got someone from every part of the town so that they can engage and people can put a name and a face to it, that would be great. And I like the biannual stuff.

That really will be good. So I know you get different officers, they forget about what's going on. And hopefully, they see the outcomes, our products are improving as we mature. But if not, I don't think we have anything else for you, sir. Thank you.

Thank you, gentlemen. Good evening. Thank you for your time.

All right.

You should have said they were nice.

Yeah. The next is a vote on the administrative charges committee appointment and trial board appointments. We did interviews of four people, I think. Three, four people.

We there were four applications and interviews for the administrative charging committee, and there was one interview for the trial board specific.

Yes. So which one do we wanna do first?

You would well, first, because you wanna do one at a time because you've already discussed

Right.

The candidates prior.

Right.

If there is anybody that would like to make a motion to appoint a specific person and then go from there.

So I just say the person's name?

Yes. If you like, you could say, I wanna make a motion to appoint such and such to the administrative charging committee with an appointment to expire

people we interviewed.

10/31/2027. Yeah.

So I'd like to make a motion to appoint, and I'm probably butchering her name, Laurel Bevan?

Bevan. Yeah. That's correct.

Yeah. To the ACC with the time period ending, you said October?

10/31/2027.

10/31/2027. Thank you.

I'll second that motion.

All in favor? Aye. One,

two, three, four, six. Anybody not in favor? Yeah. Opposed? Opposed.

Go ahead. And and here's why. I don't have somebody to say push a button.

Yeah. I'll help you out. It's the never king.

So I I I saw miss Buevan's energy. I understand her intellect and her background. And I I said it then, I'm gonna say it now. The energy is one thing. Energy is what I need when I say, go take that hill. What I need is the intellect that says this is why I want you to take that hill. Here, you you you

should not be discussing the candidate's background. Conversation or because we've already had qualification. Open. No. The discussions were held in closed session. This was for the motion. That would be a

closed meeting if you wanted to discuss it again. That's why we did it after the interviews.

Voting on it. So You know what? Thought I had it all.

Push the button.

Yeah. So we had a operate so we had a we had that opportunity, and it's improper and it's against the rules if we try to discuss each individual and, you know, the process with here, because we should have done that after the

Yeah.

The thing. And that's and I apologize. I did get ahold of you, but I did get ahold of most everybody here to make sure we were still on the same person. Yeah. Or or persons. So I mean,

you've been out surgery when you tried to reach out then.

Yeah. I I will get back I'll correct that, but I I got ahold of most people that asked that question, make sure that we we were still firm and that we we knew the process. Well, my apologies. Yeah.

We're good. We're good.

Yeah. Okay. So a six c, this would be Latrice alright. It'd be Laurel.

Okay. So yes. I have six yay, one nay. So the motion carries

Mhmm.

To appoint Laurel Beeben to the administrative charging committee for the term to expire 10/31/2020

to training next month. Right?

Training is held November 3 through the seventh.

Okay. The next will be for the trial judges. Right?

The trial board rotation Yes.

And the individuals

No, I would make a motion. Go ahead. I don't I think it's Michelle Concepcion.

Yes.

Yes. I was on the board

with her,

so I remember her name. To be appointed to the trial board for the term of oh, there's no term, is there?

We're putting them on a two year rotation. So again, 10/31/2020

October.

So I second the motion.

Second. He said. All in all in favor? Aye. Any nays?

Okay. Motion carries. And before I move on, there was another applicant, as you recall, to the Administrative Charging Committee that would have been interested in the trial board if not appointed to the Administrative Charging Committee. If you would like to make a motion to appoint that person to the trial board as well.

Do they have to go to training?

They will have to go to training.

Is that in our budget? I mean, to make

sure Yeah. Every every I wouldn't let you do it if it wasn't. No. You the the the trial board originally, the rotation the rotation list, they wanted seven people. We currently have three. Okay. So there's space for four.

Yeah. Okay.

I don't remember the person's name. I'm I'm trying to

Oh, hold on. It Bob, do you have the list up there?

Yeah. I just I do. Oh, yes.

He does. He does. Michaela.

Is it Michaela?

Yeah. Michaela. Yes.

So if wanna you make a motion to

I wanted to make sure because Yep. Before I That would make a motion for a name, I wanna make sure that I had the right one. Yeah. Yep. So based on that, I'd also like to make a motion for Mikayla I'm gonna butcher that name. I apologize to her.

Well, if a trial board comes up, we will we go through our rotate rotation list one person. The the administrative law judge is chosen by executive, an officer of equal rank will come from the law enforcement agency. We will provide a member of our rotation list that is able to attend.

I I'm glad that we are getting a a workable list because, you know, you you never know about time and when it'll come out. So we have at least we'll have a laundry list, and we can, you know, at least do our part of that. So we've done those appointments, and now we're at the the ACC quarterly update. The new chair and and and temp chair in the vice.

I guess I'll start with some

introductions. Yeah.

Because things have changed. Turn

on the microphone.

Catherine Jones. Microphone. Hi. I'm Catherine Jones. And I have been acting chair for a very brief time since Dawn left. And last night at our ACC meeting, in addition to covering nine cases,

which is

a record almost, we also elected a chair and vice chair for the next period of time. And Tom I'm sorry. Tom Humphreys. Tom Humphreys is our new chair

Yep.

Starting as of last night. But since I was here for most of the many of the cases that were here as acting chair, I'll be reporting on this time. I was also appointed vice chair for the next term.

And for everybody's knowledge, the ACC actually votes every year for a new chair and vice chair. So it it gives opportunity for them to switch if if they decide to. So which we don't. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

So I'm here to give you a brief quarterly update from the administrative charging committee, and the ACC has decided to add a little bit of extra information that you haven't gotten before. It's not much, but it will help with your report in the future for sure because you'll see more than just what the complaints show. From the first year from the first of this year until September 30, so it wouldn't include last night's cases, of twenty twenty five, the ACC has reviewed 29 complaints into police misconduct. Of the complaints received, 19 are from the Frederick Police Department, eight from the Frederick County Sheriff's Office, and one each from the Brunswick police department and the Thurmont police department. 20 of those complaints are violations of LEA's policies and standards to include discourtesy, unbecoming conduct, and notifications regarding the bod body worn cameras, either notifying people that they're supposed to as they're supposed to about the fact that there is a body worn camera activated or not remembering to turn it on.

Three have been unfound three of these 20 complaints have been unfounded, 14 were exonerated, and three have been administratively charged. And that might be more than one officer, or it might be the same officer with a couple of discharges. I don't have that detail here. Three, use of for force complaints were all exonerated. Two, discrimination or bias complaints, both were exonerated.

Three false apprehension and false arrest cases were represented. Three were exonerated. One was administratively charged because there was more than one officer on that complaint. So we have three complaints but officers. One complaint of untruthfulness was exonerated.

Now the part that I'm about to add is we get to see all kinds of body worn camera. Much of the behavior we see is not related to the complaint that's made, but we want to make sure that you get some trends from what we see because this is the only source you have. Right? And so we have oh, I'm sorry. There's also currently one trial board pending, so it's good you have some people for it.

We had one incident where an investigator spoke to witnesses during the investigation phase, and he didn't provide notes or anything from that. He just told us what the conclusion he had was from those witnesses. That's the only time that's happened. Usually, all the departments are very good about giving us everything they've got. So many body camera cameras.

So many. It wasn't critical to the to that particular complaint because we had way enough for that one. There was and it was that was an exonerated person. That's what I mean by it was way enough. There was one incident where the case could have been resolved so much faster had the officers done what the complainant asked them to do and what the person who had called them was willing to let them do if they had an officer in attendance.

And instead of actually doing that thing, the officer just kinda argued with them, got to the point where the hotel decided to trespass the person, and there was a very long incident of back and forth between three parties and the police officers involved. Had they actually just done the one thing, it would have been over because by the time they got through all the arguments, the guy got his phone, which is all he was looking for.

The

there was in that case, although the officers were not I think they were not administratively charged at least, There was also a little bit of foul language during that incident. And there is a little bit of foul language that doesn't end up in the complaints that we see, and we do try and report to the agency that we saw such things when we make our decisions. The third thing is the officer made what appeared to two witnesses to be a political comment. It was unfounded because it wasn't re because he had an explanation for it that fit with his work.

In the notes, I took out gender specific titles. Sorry. That's why I put this because

Sorry. And I might not be remembering right, frankly. So the officer made what appeared to be a political comment, but it wasn't really a political comment based on politics. It was based on his experience. And had he explained that to the witnesses Yeah. It would have been better because he noticed I'm sorry. The officer noticed that the witnesses were a little alarmed by it, and he didn't do anything about it. So we he's ex he's it was unfounded, but we did ask for a caution for that officer. Sorry. I gotta practice that.

I am

He has to practice that.

See? You're doing great. Yeah. Yeah.

These observations are being shared to provide as possible that you wouldn't ordinarily get from just hearing the basics of the complaints. It allows you to be aware of potential trends and may inform future reports. It's up to you what you do with it. Is there any question?

Anybody have any questions?

No. Was curious. Is it possible to get this stuff ahead of time to kinda maybe think about it and say because you I mean, you were rambling it. I have I tried to take notes. I tried to look at something possible. I don't is it possible to say that ahead of time?

This is I'll be

able to the board.

I'll be able to send you I I'll send it to you what we have written out. Generally, in the past, it has not been provided beforehand, but we can look at doing that in the future.

That does give you a a lead time to see if there's questions that are a little bit more in-depth that you wanna ask. But I will tell you, Kate has expanded threefold compared to what we used to get, and we always had questions. And after the report, it was always like, what what were they talking about? And I'll I'll tell you, What she just gave is a lot more in-depth, I think, and it answers a lot of our questions. So some of the questions that we asked the law enforcement agencies, if you now you can see why the body language one was, you know, something that we we thought could help.

Because if they would be watching the body language of the individual to talk to, they would have known that, hey, this this person is either not engaged and they're not listening, but they could have stopped right there and maybe reattacked a different way and got a better result at the end. Two or three, I think, that we've seen that where the body language was very clear to us, but we were also not the ulcer. You know, there was a lot of things going on, but it was definitely a place where we thought they could have maybe had some training or, you know, be observant.

And and my concern too is there's a lot that you just we don't know

Right.

Until you see the body worn cameras. Nothing has been outrageous so far. Nothing none of the complaints have been all that beyond basics. But and sometimes, honestly, the standards and practices and policies are such that we can't make a finding.

So

you're getting everything we can give you, and hopefully that will be helpful.

Maybe if you have statistics like you brought, a handout. Because I was trying to write down, like, 29 of this and 19 came from here.

I know I'll tell you two things. I was on the board.

That's right.

Sarah rules everything.

I have a I am

the dad who printed

the statistics.

I did not. I collected the the list additional informations from our from our decisions. And and I know that you will get those statistics for before you actually do the final report. So Correct.

You'll you'll you'll get all for the annual report, I compile all the numbers for you to have it

Yeah. I

to have a

So what I'm saying is to get it all in November for December report and not know what happens in March and February and April and having it to digest, I don't think we can do our job. Because I Well, the court not take I could not take the information like I learned tonight. Like, if I had it beforehand, I could have maybe thought of a question to ask the officers who were sitting in front of us today because I feel like we're not even prepared to do that. So if we can just keep getting information instead of all being kept by you

think we're going helpful. We can also do that.

With the trends because in the final report, our yearly report, we talk about the trends and we make recommendations to the commission. So I think it would be helpful for us to have that. And I know in the past and I haven't been on the Board very long, but in the past when we've had quarterly reports, that's what they've been quarterly reports. Think, Kate, you said this was from January to September. This is

this year's report?

That's like almost a whole year's report, right? That's not a quarterly. And in the past, we have just had quarterlies where we've been able to digest it a little bit better. So if we can have those statistics, and then we can also begin to look at those trends. Because one of the trends we found last year was that when the state legislature changes or adjusts a law, several of the complaints when I came on board, several of the complaints were because the officers were not aware of the changes.

And that led to the discussion of how are they learning about the changes. They're supposed to be learning about the changes as they occur. So how are the chiefs and the sheriff's departments, how are they getting that information so that somebody doesn't get pulled over and it's no longer an offense anymore to do whatever it was they were doing, which is what we saw several times last year. So I think that it would be very useful to have all of that information. I agree with my fellow board members.

I believe with a full ACC, we'll probably be making more of those quarterly reports. It was a little disrupted this year.

Gathering data from the beginning of the year in a time when I was not in has been fun.

Challenging. Yeah.

So I'm not sure if the answer can be given, but I'm just gonna ask the question anyways, and I give that caveat just in case. You've mentioned there were some individuals administratively charged. The individuals that and one trial board pending as far as I heard, and six no. Excuse me. Four administrative charges. So does that mean that those four accepted that punishment, or is the disposition still not finding

to us what the disposition is as far as I know, but I have only been on that HCC for a couple of months.

But we have asked that question.

But and I think the police can tell you some things.

Well Because I wanna make sure we don't get into specifics because I know that's been an issue before, So that's why I'm

Thought wise is if you've been administratively charged and only one has requested a trial board, then that one did not accept their punishment.

That's what I So

we assume that the rest accepted their punishment.

That would be my assumption, but there's always the phrase about assumption.

Unless somebody's doing something, that would be my assumption too, that the rest were

Last year, we did bring that question up. I'm almost positive to the chiefs if if we could get feedback to see, you know, if they took the our recommendations and all of them. And we I don't know if we settled on whether that's whether they were gonna do it or not. So that is something we can follow-up on. Because I think, like Sarah just said, we assume, since there's only been one trial board requested, that they have accepted the recommendations that we gave them.

But remember, we're still in the infancy stages here, so I think as we keep going along, cases will get a little harder, and we're going to probably have a little bit more in-depth type recommendations possibly. Any more questions for the ACC?

Yeah. I'm curious, and I know it it varies, and I know there's a lot of preparation time. Last night, you did nine cases?

Yes.

How long did it take? Meeting? Was the meeting? Yeah.

Five to about 07:30.

Okay. You knocked down that many cases?

Yes. Five. We do get a lot of information before we actually start talking about it.

If We didn't

want you would like to know total time put into that with the inclusion of last night's meeting, give me one second because I will

I know it took me two days

to go

through all the

Well, this is what I say. This is where I keep track of when I when we're going through this. So for the for the month of October, it was nine cases. Including meeting time, I spent twenty one hours of time reviewing body worn camera footage, documents, investigations. So including the meeting in the twenty one in the twenty one hours total, that's twenty one hours they're putting in. Nineteen hours outside of meeting time.

And it was very thorough. I mean, we we we knew names. We knew the place that we I mean, there were more details as we went through. We were all looking at different aspects of it, but we we had done our homework that we could answer the questions and actually, you know, and make good, I think sound recommendations based on not only us, but I never looked at the agency's recommendations until after we did it. I try to put that aside, just like explaining in training, you do that, you don't go in with a bias and thinking, okay, we know this is gonna be it.

You don't put the time in to accurately really look at all the body camera footage and also the complaints. Think one of them like 30 something pages they had in there. So, I mean, you have to look at every piece of it, see if anything changed. But it was a yeah. It was very detailed. And I think we did a a decent job of of assessing each case independently. You know?

That that much preparation Yep. Really makes the evening go a lot faster.

Especially when you can say a name and you already you know the case, you already know what what person was recommended charges and the complainant. And, you know, we were we were all talking the same lingo. Like, it's almost like we were reading the same book at the same time, you know, and even pictures. I mean, it was very good, I thought. And I I commend the ACC because everybody was prepped to do that.

And like you said, we did the homework, and it took less time to go through it. But I think when challenging cases come up, they're gonna we'll probably have a little more time because not everybody will agree what they saw, you know, or what the complaint was. And, like, well, like she just explained about there's a lot of things in there that are not part of the complaint that we see, and now we have to assess how we wanna bring that feedback back to the agencies. And sometimes that's in our report or is it just a side note, know, or give it to Sarah to push to them, you know, because, you know, everything we put down is going to be documented as our recommendation. So some some things probably shouldn't be on there.

Just This is the first time we've done this too. And I I will Tom can tell me if he doesn't like the idea, but I'm pretty sure he does because we talked about it. You know, if you want if there's something you're particularly looking for and have questions about, we can keep an eye out for that stuff. But we're we're pretty savvy people, and we're keeping an eye out for everything that we can see. I think there was yeah.

I don't I that you might hear something next month that's was kinda surprising to me. It wasn't part of the complaint at all, but it was kinda surprising to me. And it might be explained by the police procedural stuff they do when they stop a car, but, I was kinda shocked that certain things weren't done and left undone. But it's not it's not like that was part of the complaint at all. So it wasn't particularly important. But you might hear that next time. I don't know.

Even the definitions of unfounded, founded, or exonerated, I mean, had to really look at that and actually make sure that we put the right assessment or recommendation forward because if you don't, then it looks bad enough that we don't even understand the definition, but we've went through every one of them, I think, very well, and we're all speaking from the same as we get through it. Anything else? Tom?

You.

We'll call board.

Thank you, Kate.

And thank you for the in-depth. I agree with you, Kate, that it it helps us. It helps the board here to have a better understanding of the cases now, I think, and how much time is put in for each one of them. Because it's not a it's not a just a weekend thing. I mean, it takes a long time. And a lot of time, just do one case during that day so I can focus on that one issue. We had five body cameras on one case. Yeah. Four or five, and it was pretty

And more than one case.

Yeah. Yeah. And you see the same thing over and over again. Okay. Alright. Well, we'll move on. We'll go to discussion on the rules of procedure. Do you wanna go under hit those, Sarah? Mister

chair, before you proceed, I'm gonna ask to be excused for for medical reasons. I appreciate you allowing me to attend.

Oh, yeah. So I'm gonna Thank you very much. Ask to

be excused. One thing I would ask for clarification on, when we do have a voting, if we can get a list of the individuals and the categories readily at hand because I have here my resume up here. If we could parcel it out that way, think we'd make it easy on

the board. Right. And I think maybe after we go through the interview process that we clarify exactly what we're doing, so this way when we get here, we already know where we're going, unless we can't come to a resolution. Thank you. You have a good day, doc. Doc, have a good day. Feel better. Yeah. Been there, done that.

Are we

gonna go to rules of procedures? Or is there

Oh, the rules of procedures. Discussion on amending the rules of procedure. Are just some things that for the rules of procedure when I brought them up, and I handed everybody a copy today because I had sent the original one. And I've been trying to work on them through working on everybody else, and this is just an initial discussion to, you know, look at changes you may think need to be made or you can email me things that you think need to be made in them. But, again, we just have some procedural things in here that need to be changed and addressed as you can see in

Section four. Paragraph four, I mean. Section two, paragraph four.

I'm still working on that.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Still working. That's that one's still a little bit of work in progress. Kendall and I will work further on that. But just about just in yeah. Section four a, it's the appointees of the board will serve staggered terms three years subject We don't need the initial appointments, I don't think, in there anymore.

Right. The big the biggest thing I have right now is addressing public comment and addressing public comment. And as you see, my changes for public comment. Public comment currently says public comment will be permitted during a portion of the meeting designated to receive comments and upon recognition by the chair. Comments shall be limited in topic to matters over which the board has jurisdiction and limited in time to three minutes.

Three minutes is a standard across the board Mhmm. Within the government here. I've looked at multiple other, like, boards and committees and council and everything to see their timing limits, and it's also consistent with other county governments. Addition, and this is something that we need, no comments on police misconduct or complaints will be received as there is a complaint procedure in place. Public comment is not an open forum.

It's comment only. No questions will be answered by board members or the executive administrator during this time. If a speaker has exceeded the three minute time frame, the Board Chair will notify the speaker that their time is up. If the speaker continues, the Board Chair will ask for a motion to adjourn the meeting. If a person has a topic that they wanna discuss or is relevant to the board, like maybe let's say there's a program out there that they wanna bring to the board's attention or committees or outreach things, they can email us and they can request a spot on the agenda and come in and present to us.

The public comment is not a really a time for those things. And I think it needs to be understood that public comment is public comment. They're making a comment. It's not a back and forth or question answer session.

And it's not to discourage comment.

No. It's

to Not put a time limit so that we can stay within our budgeted time here. And also there might be issues with scheduling. Someone might need this forum later. So it's it's nothing about trying to discourage. It's just trying to make sure we put a a a time limit. And it doesn't mean they can't go go past three minutes. Like Sarah said, if they got a more in-depth conversation that they need. They said it to Sarah, we go through it, and we make sure that it fits It's

going go on the agenda.

This forum. So please understand we're not trying to

So my question just is, how would they know they can get on the agenda? They don't know until that evening. So they get here, they get up here, and they wanna say something, and suddenly They can speak. Says, oh, that needs to go on the agenda for the next meeting, which is in three months.

Then that's just the way I mean, that's pretty much the way that it has to be. It is in our rules of procedure, that if people want to be put on the agenda.

Maybe that missing phone. There's that missing phone.

Yeah. Pardon me one second. Yeah. We were looking for a phone in here earlier and couldn't find it. I even got the floor.

Here. You bring up a very good

Bonus count. But, I mean, it is in our rules of procedure about people that want things put on the agenda. I have back way back in the beginning of our time, there was, you know, people that requested time on our agenda. Yeah.

It's gotta be nice.

In case the people at home are wondering, we are looking for a phone somewhere in in the room.

You want help? Yeah. Because it'll stop in a minute if we don't find it. Yeah.

It's it's find it. It's there somewhere.

Yeah. Probably put that fine.

I know. I think it's, you know

But So

looming Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. Could continue. I'm sorry. Yes. Yes. Go ahead.

So I I understand three minutes is standard and there's reasons for it and so on. One thing I mean, I assume three minutes is standard because it's a way to accommodate a lot of people Mhmm. Which has a demographic aspect to it because some places have more people than others. So I don't know if it's necessarily the case that, you know, Frederick has to have the same time limit as a much larger jurisdiction. I'm thinking of it from the point of view of someone who comes to a meeting and wants to make a comment. But first, they have to wait through an hour plus

Yeah. And

then they have three minutes. And not everyone is a polished, rehearsed speaker. My concern is that it sends a message to the public that we're not really a listening body, that it becomes, you know, put it on the agenda, send an email, it becomes too formal. So even though I understand the reasons for a three minute rule, and I don't know, like, as you know, the chair probably has some discretion that could be used I gonna say that.

You know, as as long as it's value added to the to the topic at hand and is value added to us, obviously, that if we think that we could allow it to go on, I would say that we would probably have that flexibility, but we can't allow it to become a grandstand space. So we have to be very cautious about that, make sure that the topic, like Sarah said, is what we have jurisdiction over or what we within the reg you know, within the law. Know, remember, we're thinking outside the box here, and we're thinking future training. Right? So in this way, they explain it to us.

ACC does today what happened. We're looking for future for the trends and how to fix that. So if it's value added, you know, I think, yeah, I think we could probably flex a little bit, but I don't want to make a forum where we're going over every time and then then we've done the the first, you know, guest that came and spoke, we're doing them a disservice because we capped them at three. Yeah. So I I guess it's three to three to five or something like that, but I think we we can as case by case, we'll we'll figure that out.

Yeah. Think I think, like, my my concern is I wouldn't want someone to to attend a meeting and leave feeling that they weren't heard.

Yeah. And I think we we we we don't want it we are their representatives here, and I I don't think we will will give them that impression. I hope not. Because I think we allow them to speak as long as they can condense it down. But also, maybe there's information they can give to us in the head that we can look at and say, Okay, yeah, we got it. And we're more versed in and more educated into the subject to ask a question or two. And I think that really will help. You know?

I will I will also say in about three and a half years, we've only ever had three public comments and the amount of people as you've seen come and sit in here. So it has never really been an issue except for one time.

But I do say that goes back to our PR and get getting the word out on, you know, informing the public on what we do. Because I will tell you, I had I think it was 167, two Saturdays ago that I actually talked to, and we're keeping track of the numbers because it's amazing when you're when you're informing them and you tell them, hey, this is why we were stood up and this is why the law came about, and this is where we're at now. I mean, I we've gotten really positive feedback because now they understand that. But remember, we've only hit maybe a thousand people in the last few totally in our last few engagements, but there's 40 plus thousand people in Frederick County. So we have a we have a lot of work to do.

And this is one of the reasons why we have it in here about getting out and engaging with the the community.

So when when the board was initially stood up, I I advocated Right. Strenuously much to some people's dismay about including this in here. And part of the rationale was because of the transparency and and why we should have it Three minutes is enough and but to your point, someone's not polished or whatever they don't necessarily and that's fine. But there probably does need to be a a a hard cutoff. Maybe at the five minute mark, like, if it's gonna go over because it's value added to Bob's point, maybe we go there, but we still need a definitive cutoff because otherwise, we're gonna sit here and we could end up with the the back and forth or whatever the

case may be. And I And we won't get our case.

Happens once, can it happen a second time, and and so you kinda wanna rectify that issue.

Because if you see one person doing it, then the next person does it and the next person does it. It's one thing to stipulate three minutes in your in your rules of procedure. But if you're gonna know you're going to have a hard cutoff, that hard cutoff has to be for everybody in in here. And it's everybody would have you have to do the same thing. But that's what I said. And just from previous things I'm been part of, you know, I I've seen it happen Right. And then I've seen it happen way one too many times, and then it just creates further issue for other people.

But I think as we grow, we'll we'll get better at it. And the public, hopefully, will know that we have this hard and fast rule that, you know, is is part of every forum within, you know, the county government. So it's not like we're doing anything unique or different. So if they prepare and they really got a good message, I think I think we have the they will they'll be able to do it in that amount of time or maybe bring them back to the next meeting or a different forum.

So does do the public I'm sorry. Go ahead. Do the public get the do they get the agenda ahead of time, or they pick it up when they come in here? The

public the agenda is posted on the police accountability board website at least a week prior. There are people that subscribe

Mhmm.

To because there's a place where you can subscribe to it. So when I put it up on the website and hit send, it'll let them know one has been added. Okay. So it's anybody that looks at the website or anybody that has subscribed. I mean, we do have subscribers too Sure. Of people people that want the PAB agenda or want the administrative charging committee.

We may want to when we do our outreach to let people know they can subscribe to get it. I mean, just another way of

just letting

people know. But we don't have to get Yep.

If you go on the county government website and you just hit subscribe, it'll give you everything you can subscribe. I know. But

know, Joe But Blake does not know these things. Right?

So Right. But I think our job is to inform them. And and I think as as we continue doing this, we will see more people subscribing or more people getting more interested in how they can use leverage this board and the ACC So in the right just curious,

you have different markings on here. So some is highlighted, some is crossed out, some is underlined, is that that your suggestions to adding, taking out, or whatever?

The my my mine is if there's a strike through, it's being removed. If it's in bold, underlined, it's being added. The public comment, that was just my highlight because I was remembering I have this right here and then I have add I've changed I've bumped sections down because I wanted to add a section eight because it is a requirement of the Police Accountability Board to to appoint members to the Administrative Charging Committee and the Trial Board. It was no procedures were ever we've talked about procedures. We've done things, but there was never procedures that were put in place on paper.

So, I mean, this is just something for you to go over. This is my very rough draft of getting the information in there. Kendall's just now seeing it today because I mentioned yesterday, by the way, this is not in here. I believe it should be in here. So we're it'll get cleaned up. It's just getting it in there somewhere so we you know, hey. This is what our

procedures are. Is time there you'd like us to review this and get you comments back?

You can get me comments anytime until the next meeting. What we can do is I'll take in all the comments. We can discuss it again in November, any and all changes that we want.

Send this out so we could maybe add stuff or take stuff out on in Word? Sure.

I'll send it to

you. Give us a date so you can have it so you can compile it before the next meeting.

I can I can send it to you? I don't because you have outside emails, I don't know if it'll, like, oh, I have to look at how it'll let me share that.

Don't they also get county's email? I know that when we first did this, some of us did.

Yeah. But I'm not even

The administrative charging committee has county emails. Mhmm. The PAB and this is from my understanding. It's you're given a county email just it's just to be able to log in, I guess, for remote desktop, but it's not attached to anything else that I am aware of. Okay. Because of, I guess, the blocks IIT puts on it. I don't fully understand that. I'm not IIT. I understand.

I I So just I know we had talked, and it's not in here, but me and Sarah was just talking about it. I I was trying to input a section in there about, PAB members at least quarterly or or yearly actually engaging with their city council so they know who they are. And do it if if you don't do a ride along, at least go to what are, all calls so you they can put a face with you. You know, the police force can or the agency can from that section. And then also, you know, between all some of those because we already have mandates that we have to have, you know, at least, what, 75% attendance or 80.

So some people, you know, have not done that. But at the end of the day, try to get us engaged at the at the residential level in the the county and city level so that people will understand what we're doing, and and we're here for them. You know, this was to help, not only enforce the law that was signed and put down, but also help them understand how to operate and leverage us, you know, in the proper way. And it's nothing against police force or them, but just make sure that they understand that there is a complaint system, and it works. You know?

They might not get the outcome. And I will tell you, after looking at hours and hours and hours of body cam footage, what they say and what actually is theirs sometimes is two or three different shades of gray.

I have a quick question, and that has to do with when we were working with the city councilman from

Duckett, council vice president Duckett. Correct.

We had done some work with him on right. Okay. So you know what I'm talking about?

You know where I'm going? Okay.

So I'd like to know where we are in that process because the thing that jarred my memory was is that we were going to do the ride alongs. It was gonna be part of the new county ordinance or law, whatever it is. And so I wanna wanna follow-up on that and see where we are with that.

Oh, thanks

for that bill. That bill that bill passed, I think, back in July.

Okay.

So that that was amended copy of that? And passed. I can obtain a copy of it Right.

Because I

think that's important for us to have a copy of that because it gives us other stuff to be looking at in terms of

And I think it also gives the agency a better feeling that we're engaging with them. We try to get a better understanding of their day to day stuff and how they operate. And then on the other side, we would translate that into when we're looking at cases the ACC level.

Right. And the ride along was part of that as well as the new description of

The suggested.

It is suggestions Suggested. The folks and how we get here.

Yeah.

And if we don't have a relationship with our councilman because, like, my Mount Airy is Carroll County. Right. The police are Carroll County, except that where I live, we call and the sheriff comes. So, I would want to be involved then, I guess, with the county council of Frederick Right. And get more involved there if we're talking about getting to know our council people.

Yep. I Okay. Alright. I think we're good with that. But you're right. If we get it in writing, it it gives you a little bit more leverage to open that door and for them to to bring you on in. But I will tell you, it's it all starts at the the grassroots level, and I will tell you, they they they wanna know who we are and what we're doing, especially the the law enforcement agencies because, like, the chief said, we're we're that fuzzy thing out here that they were scared of, but I think the results are showing they didn't need to be scared of that we're we're doing an honest, you know, evaluation of their of the complaints.

What? Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Oh, I was just gonna say, referring back to Tim as we were because I I started and then didn't finish. Our the next meeting is November 19. So what I will do is I'll send out an email again with this draft here. Any comments, changes, whatever, I'll probably ask for by November 11. I will compile that list of suggested comments and make sure that each member gets it when the agenda goes out prior so that it can be discussed at that meeting.

Other than that is if everybody just sends me their suggested changes, I'll compile it. We'll get it together, and I'll get it to you before the November meeting. And this can be further discussed then.

And please don't be upset if they don't go in there. But the thing is, though, is as we give her a date of someone we're gonna fit, and they have to go through a legal review, maybe the wording or something, and but maybe we still have another chance, you know, the next year. So I would say be patient, and as we grow, we'll we'll make the changes as we go along. Okay. The next thing is annual report. Right?

Yes, sir.

Yeah. Discussion on the annual report. I sent out we now is the time to be thinking about, again, what information you would like to see go into the annual report besides our numbers that we always put in there. Speaking with multiple people at Maryland Police and Training Standards Commission, other counties, I did send out a county's annual report that seems to be highly popular among the people that are pertinent to this information because it gives them the details of exactly what their need, what we're responsible for, what they're looking for without a lot of fluff. Because a lot of I I've been told that a lot of fluff they quit reading.

Yep.

And then I don't want I don't want us to be not important or not relevant. So I wanna make sure we are having exactly what's needed, what's required of us. I want us, you know, of course, to look good. I don't want us to have a 50 page report that I was told they read the first two pages, and then you're both they're basically recycled papers. So, again, I sent you the report as an idea, as an outline of the one county.

I keep all the numbers. I can get numbers to everybody. But, again, just kinda review that annual report. And then, again, with as the same as the rules of procedures, any ideas, suggestions, and things like that, make sure you get them to me. That is also a list I will put together and make sure all members get so that can be further discussed and finalized at November meeting.

Mhmm. So so I I to piggyback on what Sarah's saying when we were at the training, the the county that they identified as having a report that they really liked in the outline of it. And, so we are trying to look at that model and see how we can take our stuff and and fit it in there and make it make it value added. You know? And I think, too, we we were talking about are we meeting the goals of all of the items that we're tasked with within the law? And I I was talking to Sarah and, Kendall about how do we put something in there to show that we're meeting all the standards. You know? Everybody's trained. Everybody you know? And and, you know, and and if we're weak in the area, what we're gonna do about it, you know?

Just so that we're doing a self assessment of ourselves. And I think that that's value added because did the did the board do what it was told to do or tasked to do? And, you know, how do we look? And if we're if we're not good in one area, then, hey. We we will concentrate on that. But, hopefully, that will get in there in some some shape or fashion because I think it's good to have a a self assessment sometimes or meeting the law. But if no more comments, then we'll wait till Sarah sends it back out to us. Right? Alright. Any public oh, you got a administrative update?

Yes. Administrative update will be very quick. As I told you earlier, the new newly appointed ACC member will be train attending training November. The newly appointed trial board rotation list members will be attending training October 28 and October 29. As we talked about events earlier, if you know of any outreach opportunities that are in your area that you wanna go to, please send them to me so that I can collect more information on them and get that out to you. Otherwise, that's it. I was trying to be quick.

And I'll tell you that that the outreach is really working, I think. And it's meeting the the the expectation that the the or the cities are looking at are looking for.

Hey, Sarah. Do we ever does anyone ever attend the Neighborhood Advisory Councils, the NACs? That may be one way. Mhmm. Because each neighborhood has a NAC. Mhmm.

Okay. Neighborhood Advisory Councils? Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. I I was not aware of that, but In

the city.

In the city. There's a Oh, the city. In sorry. Live in the city, so

that's There

are like 12 NACs in the city.

There may be one.

And there's a police officer that goes to each NAC. Yeah. And there used to be a community mediation person that went to each NAC. There's and it would be it's a great place to go to find out, one, what's going on in their neighborhood and then be able to interject what we do for those folks.

I'll see what I can find

Yeah. On It's on the city website. It gives the districts where the NACs are, the boundaries, and all that stuff. Some you may live in those and don't know them.

Good. All right. I know that we get some opportunities to set up our tent and give away some goodies to bring the residents to us. But I will tell you that the outreach is good because a lot of them have never heard of it. Like, I've never heard of Matt or Matt.

But even though they never heard of us, the outcome was very positive when we were finished They were very excited that we were around. A lot of the people that I talked to, they were very excited that we were around.

I think I've I've only gotten positive feedback too. I mean, it's when people Sarah. Me and Kate, we've done one. So please take these opportunities and help out because I think everywhere we go, just make sure we get the data back to Sarah. You know, how many people were there and what it was because we're trying to keep also the number of people we engage with and brief them on the PAB and ACC process. Our handouts were very good. And Sarah gave me a tub of stuff. We had card business card trifolds and little coloring books. When a kid comes, the parent comes too. So it's a marking

That goes in the annual report too, and then you can set your goals for 2026.

Right.

How how many outreach activities you wanna do, how many people you wanna reach. Right. Just like you do when you do a grant. Yep.

Exactly. And numbers matter.

Right?

Absolutely. That's why we need everybody. If you can't participate to in the PR project, please do so. And it doesn't have to be something big. You know? It doesn't have to be color fest. It could be anything.

I think some of the NACs have, like, Facebook groups and social media presences as well. So, I mean, it's not necessarily like contact face to face with people, but that's also a way to kind of put information out there.

Maybe you could link put a link out and send it to them and say, you know, we're there for you. You know, this is where we don't want to be not known, but we also don't want thought of that we're in cahoots with the law enforcement agencies because we also are residents. So at the end of the day, it's got to be a partnership. You know. And we get bad apples, we get bad apples. You know, we have to take care of that. Public comments, we've already went through this. Ma'am, if you wanna the time is ticking. No. I'm just kidding. And by the time you get to the microphone, yes, our apologies that you had to wait for it and find a phone.

So my name is Jill Fitzsimmons. I actually live in Downtown Frederick. I'm in NAC 11, I think.

Okay. I'm on

3rd Street.

NAC 11, yeah. I

also am on the police accountability board. So January 24 is when I started. Just wanted to give some kind of off the cuff feedback around that process and kind of how I've felt. I mean, I showed up to at least three or four of these meetings. I'm one of the only people that So have shown I can appreciate that you think outreach is great, but there's only three people showing up for the party. So that's not But a great I think there are some things that we could do probably pretty quickly just on the onboarding from my role in general. Expectations. Two, highlighting there's four meetings. Like, try and get your butt here. Like, it's really important to participate and kind of understand.

Like, I've seen how this has evolved. And to your point, like, we had the one public speaker ran over, but I've kind of seen the cadence and the tone and what's been going on. So I do think all of these things are positive movements, but it's really hard to tell when you don't actually have people participating besides yourself. I think it would be helpful when the reports are issued or when these themes are issued that me and the board, I should get a personal not a personal, but, like, when you guys get updates, I should be getting updates. So that way, know what's going on.

I know what to plan for. If I'm able to come in for a hearing or what have you, at least I know what the trends are going on in the city. I walk the streets pretty regularly in the city, so I have a pretty good idea of what is going on from a theme perspective. I was generically disappointed that the police left. They come in and they do a debrief and then they leave, right? I feel like this should be a partnership. Again, these are kind of off the cuff. I think that we're underutilized at this point. To your point, like social gatherings, the knack, I can be a representative also. I can be sharing information.

So I think that we're not leveraging you know, I spent two days in training. I didn't expect to be paid. I'm not interested in being paid, but I'm now trained up. The term limits are not clear to me. Again, I would like to see some of my other people that were trained up, my partners in crime with this stuff, to be here. So I just think we're underutilized at this point and kind of not into the fold. So it's a random thing. You get a call. Can I sit in on this? So I think there's things that we could do that, knowing that these folks were able to spend, you know, two days because they're interested.

It's not because you're bored, but it's because you're actively interested in this. So I'm happy to help with this, but I just think there's some underutilization that we could be doing from a city perspective or from a county perspective. Know we're not taking open forum, but if you have any questions for me.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I will make the one comment, not as a refutation or anything like that. But normally, the law enforcement agencies do kind of sit here every single time, so they probably had something. I do get your point, though.

The ones that I have been here for, they have scooted.

But they had a CHIESH meeting, too. And I'm wondering if they

could do that. Then we should take that into consideration. But that's

a good comment.

Yes. Then I think The

point is valid.

Also, the thing, I didn't know. I subscribed to everything from the city. I literally subscribed the other day to everything in the county. I'm not getting information. But I don't know I don't see this as a I'm not seeing this publicly anywhere, the board or any kind of the activities or anything. And I think that if we're going to start doing these things quarterly and we have a nice report, that these things should be shared publicly so people do have the confidence and the transparency. Because right now, it's not that you don't do it, but the lack of transparency is an issue. Right? I mean, you're doing it. It's just not getting publicly out there.

And I think that's part of the push with the PR to get it out. And but also, you're right. A product needs to go to whoever wants to.

Yeah. Again, I'm willing to help. Like, I'm not I'm like

Sarah's got a box for you.

Yeah. Sarah. And I got

one in my car right now. Alright. But thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank Thank you for coming.

Okay. No more comments. The two meetings, November 19 and January 21 are the next two meetings, but we have a lot of homework to do between now and then with the with the report. And any other comments on the rules or procedures? Anybody have anything else? Sarah? Kendall? Ma'am? No, I just want to make sure.

Nobody had it.

This is Okay, good. Right, well, if Can not

I move

for moment?

Anybody got a motion to adjourn?

I move that we adjourn. Second.