Cc Meeting - Regular Meeting

All right, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, sorry about that. Ladies and gentlemen, I call the uh regular meeting of the Franklin City Council uh to order and um roll call. Dr. Johnson, not here. Mr. Kitchen, present. Banks present.

Miss Copelan present. Miss Mcr

present.

And Miss Banks is now here. Present. Thank you very much. All right. Um, ladies and gentlemen, if you'll and Dr. Johnson is here as well. All right. Uh ladies and gentlemen, if you'll uh gentlemen, if you'll remove your hats, please if you'll stand and join us in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under. Thank you very much. Citizens time. We have Regina Hill. Sorry we couldn't get you last time.

Good afternoon, uh, city council, uh, mayor and everybody in their respective places. Two things. So, I went sit on a board uh with, uh, Mr. Kitchen and my question when we was on the board and the information I got, it kind of puzzled me. been puzzled me since the time we got it. We my numbers may not be completely right but I'm gonna give you an estimate like 8,200 peoples in this city and 5200 of these people here are below poverty and that to me I'm like oh my god so what it's going to look like three years from now if we don't figure out what we need to do now and our upcoming children that's coming up they're part of the below poverty so if all they know is that by three years from now, that number may double or triple. So, we got to figure out what can we do because I have a couple of friends that have businesses here that shut them down because they couldn't afford to keep them open. The young lady that had the art thing downtown, she brought us all her stuff so we could use it for the kids, she said she couldn't keep the business open. The young lady that sitting right beside the hub, she already shut her business down because she can't keep the business open because of the lack of, you know, people being able to to buy things. And it's again it's because of the level of poverty not having the right jobs and you know jobs and stuff here. So my question is what do we need to do to even try to educate our kids the ones that's coming up so they'll be able to the numbers be changed they'll be able to do more or look different. We got to try to figure out something. And then I set a meeting where the teachers was telling me that they don't even have no heat in their in the some of the rooms that they have plugin heaters in the rooms and that's not even So again, what do we need to do? And when I say we, it's because we are a a whole. When the Bible says a house that

divided cannot stand, it's talking about all of us, this community, this city. If we don't get it together, we're not going to stand. I don't know if you know what empty being in a city and how it looks when the empty buildings are abandoned and homes are abandoned. I spent a lot of my years in Harrisburg. That's where my dad is from. So I know what it look like. I have in New York. I know what that looks like. And if we don't get do something here now, this is what the city is going to look like. It may not affect you now, but we're talking about three years from now. Where we where we going to be. So, I mean, we got to figure out something as a whole. We do. There's nothing for the kids to do around here. For real. If you don't have no money, there's nothing for you to do. You can't go to different events because you don't have the money. If 52% is below poverty, they didn't even say pardon me, they said below. Out of 82, then on my estimate, maybe a thousand, maybe 1,500 is living comfortable.

I know my time is up, but that's just that's just my question. I want to know where where we at from here. What can we do as as a community as a whole? Like we don't have no more time for argon and bickering. We can't do that. We got to look, we got to look and be un beautified for the community for for five years from now. I want my grandkids that they're still here. I want them to be able to be here and be productive, be able to to thrive here. Not just survive, but thrive. Thank you so much.

All right. Um, do I have a motion to approve the agenda? Second motion to second. Any discussion? Hearing none. Take the vote. Dr. Johnson. I I I

And I thank you very much. Um, Miss Bab, treasures report. because I need to bring that down. So, good evening everyone. Good evening, uh, Mayor Kaplan, Vice Mayor Copelan, members of council, city manager, and city attorney. Um, so it is my honor to bring you uh the annual treasures report. Um, many of you probably have had opportunity to read this. I hope you have. um the delinquent tax um amount to the city as of December the 31st. At first I thought I was a little behind the times. We're now into March, but as I looked back last year, I did it about the same time. So, um this does reflect a calendar year for 2025. So right now for uh as of December the 31st of 2025, we have 443,8559 cents in delinquent taxes. That reflects tax years 23 to 20 um and older. The last collection was the December the 31st of 2024 and that amount was $496,120.50. So that re reduces the amount about $52,64 as well as adding the year 2024 I mean 2023. Um I'm going to go through it. I don't want to read it verbatim but um I will entertain questions afterwards. Uh December the 31st of 2025 there were $42,23748 for real estate. of that that was 2003

to 2023. That consists of 47 in residential, full, four multi and 12 commercial for a total of 63 properties in the city that are delinquent. Um that cumulative collection rate for those tax years is 99.96. Um, as I have said year after year, I work um with payment plans for my citizens that come in that have some delinquencies. Uh, if they come to the office, we will work with them. We will take a have a conversation with them and feel what they feel like they can make in a payment plan. Um, it's based on a lot of factors that we look into. We know everybody's still got to eat and everybody's got to pay other bills, but again, the taxes are still owed to the city. So, I take a an opportunity and I have educated my staff on doing the same thing. We would like to get them to where they are current by the upcoming next tax year, but that's not always possible. So, we try to get them to where they're paying the new, but paying a payment plan on the old. Um, I do that. There's a lot of factors that we use, a lot of tools that we use that um help us collect these taxes. I still work with Mr. Dunn's office out of Virginia Beach. Mr. Dunn's office. Um he's an a tax attorney that I use. I've been using him since 2011. when I send properties after they have come to or not come to me and I have tried to get them to work a plan with me. If that doesn't happen and I have to send them to Mr. Dunn, unfortunately, sometimes they will enter a plan with Mr. Dunn

and um but that also keeps them from having their property sold. So, Mr. Dunn does work with them once they make the plans with Mr. Dunn. His agreement is they must pay the upcoming taxes and keep that current. Um, Mr. Dunn, it works with me on tax sales. This past year, I had six properties that I sold. Well, four that I sold. Two of them were paid prior to going to the tax sale. Um, three of those properties brought in enough money to pay all the taxes that um they paid all the taxes, the attorney's fees as well as um the auctioneers's fees. One of the properties did not bring enough, but uh taking a look at that piece of property, it was in a flood zone area. It was not going to be used for building anything without those restrictions. The purchaser purchased those properties um because his business is already adjacent to that property. We did not bring enough to pay the taxes. Those taxes had been sitting on the books, the delinquent books since 2008. So I take a look at that. The judge takes a look at that and he agreed that and approved the sale because it was not going to uh be bringing any more money. We were very fortunate that the buyer did u bid on those properties. Once the judge approves that sale, then it gives me the authority to write off any delinquent taxes and any penalties and interest that have occurred. I'm feeling good about that sale because now that property is now

taxpaying um owners and um so hopefully we'll never see that piece of land go back on our delinquent tax role. Um so for the 2024 tax year we have about 8.5 million budgeted and right now as of the December the 31st we had 167,9 $39 uncollected. That's about 98.2%. Uh so we are still working with those taxpayers and trying to get them on payment plans before any other further delinquencies um are are added as well as the event that they may have to go to an auctioneer. Personal property, if many of you know, personal property is the beast. It's movable. They can come in and they can leave in the city. So they're very hard to find. Um, as of December the 31st of 2025, we had $370,651 sitting on the delinquent tax role. Those years are for 2018 to 2023. That is a 96.39 collection rate. Um, we continue to use collection tools. The DMV stop is one of the good tools. What that does is, and I'm probably letting you all know, but it is also, for the people who are watching it, DMV stops or there's a stop put on your license, your registration, and until your taxes are paid, you can't get those renewed. Um, if they do come in and there's a tax, there's a DMV stop, they must pay

all the taxes that are on the account to be able to be released. Uh, 2018, I have a a little statement in here that 2018 based on the statute of limitations, I'll be asking at a later point in today of charging those taxes off. So, I'll I'll move on further. Uh also the commissioner of the revenue, she works delinquencies, I mean deceased properties and she will go in and if there is a property that the taxpayer is deceased, she will research pull the uh obituary, attach it to the system, and then she will send me a note saying that she's no longer going to tax those. Once that is done and they're no longer on the active uh DMV role, then I can uh bring those to council and I bring those once a year to have those charged off. Mills tax and lodging. We currently have five businesses that are delinquent. Unfortunately, this is a probably one of the first worst years we've ever had with some of our meals tax. Um, we have four of the restaurants that have closed their doors, leaving money owed to the city. Um, I have turned over a couple of them to, um, the detective with the Franklin Police Department, and then we will file. Um, he will do research and then he will file with the Commonwealth attorney. We will go to court. Um, this is considered embezzlement if they do not come and pay the taxes to the city. Uh, last year I had turned over to to the Franklin police. We have um gone to court for both properties. One property came in, paid all the taxes. We did work a plan with him. He paid all the taxes and I am now in my second plan with the

second property. I am hopeful that they will find the other four and we will be able to um go to court and get these satisfied. I constantly monitor our meals tax. If I see that one has filed but did not pay, I immediately reach out. I've had to do some till taps with this with a couple of the restaurant owners. I'll explain a tillap. A tillap is it allows me as a treasurer to go into a restaurant that has delinquent meals tax and I can go into the teal and take the money right out of the um cash register to pay those taxes. that does require me to carry a sheriff with me, not for protection, but more or less for um for the legal aspects of it. The state code requires me to do so. Um but again if a restaurant is in trouble or having issues if they will reach out to me I will meet with them and then I will try to work some kind of plan to get them on a better payment plan or to where they will be current again. Uh right now we have no delinquent lodging tax business license. Um, I work very closely with our commissioner of the revenue and her deputy. We do have seven businesses that owe us an amount of $6,600. One business is closed and no longer in the area and I have turned it over to the tax attorney. The other two we have filed judgments for and we will continue to try to research and find these um business owners that have left the city owing money.

Again, back to the businesses. Again, if a business is having financial issues, we sometimes would rather them come in and file, meet with the treasur or my my deputy, tell us that they're in having some issues. We will work with them. We want to keep our businesses open. Our job is to keep them open, but again, bring in the revenue for the for the locality. Can't have uh bring if we don't bring any money, we can't pay the bills for the city. So I've given you some historical data. So if you'll just take a look, I started um back with the collections in 2010 to 2025 and I've given you some historical data for that for your records. This is more of a um grid of the same thing of the prior. So you can kind of see it. It kind of fluctuates based on what's going on with the economy. additional information for you for your knowledge and for the people watching and the people in that are sitting in the um seats here. These are some of the tools that um the state code 58.1 allow the treasur to use to collect its u debt. We do DMV stops. We do debt set off. We'll do wage lanes. I utilize Virginia auction for um tax sales as well as um distress for vehicles. I do a non-judicial sale as well as I do a judicial sales for uh real estate. We do payment plans and we also do a nonclaimed. We're always looking for new ways for collecting the revenue. But primarily what I really feel that is a benefit for

this locality is working with the citizens. If you have a taxpayer that you know is in a financial need, let them know that the treasur's office is most willing to work with them. Our doors are always open. My staff, they know um what kind of plans we can enter into. If there's a question about it, my staff comes to me and says, "This is the situation. Can you work with the taxpayer?" Some of the things that we did, this is not all of it, but we did, we submitted 20 uh 2479 uh DMV stops. We ended up with 70 971 and then we ended up removing 690 DMV stops last year. Uh, my deputy does the debt set off. He made $1,543 $1,543 claims with DMV, bringing in 288,673 to the locality. I lost two good employees this past year that was helping with my bank leans and my garnishments. They took a job outside of the um the area. um they were they only did 40 garnishments and bank leans. I'm anticipating a little bit better doing that this year as I've just um trained one a new employee to do that. Uh I sent eight more properties to my attorney and I did five distress warrants. Those distress warrants were for um for um mills tax and I did two summons and both of those were for meals tax. A summon is where I can summon a um taxpayer to come into the city and have

a conversation with me and bring in their their basic uh tax records. This now I'm going to go into is there any questions before I go in on any of that? Okay. Uh the city contin. Okay. I'm sorry. Yes. Before you get [clears throat] too far, since you asked about questions, I want to go all the way back to the property that you said uh was uncollectible and you end up giving it to the person who had land adjacent to it. Could you elaborate more on that?

I'll go back. I'm sorry if I misundated that pro. Um I did not give it to them. It was sold to them, but it did not sell for the amount that was owed to the city. He purchased it through a legal tax sale. He put a bid in. Um he did a bid. My My concern is did land come with that building? There was no building. It was only land. It was only land.

Right. in that the owner prior had filed bankruptcy and gone out of business and turn left the um property. So what we ended up doing was it sat on the tax role and then once it became eligible for the tax role, we did try to reach out to the owner um and he basically walked away from the property. So that gave me the authority to do um a sale. And because it was in the flood zone, I think we had tried once before and it did not sell. And so we pulled it. And so we waited another couple of years and then we brought it back to a tax sale. It went through all the legal aspects that a tax sale has to go through. Well, that that's not really my uh overall concern. My overall concern is we have a shortage of you explained that that's in a flood zone, but we have a shortage of land in Franklin. It might be advantageous that if a property owes, just picking numbers, $1,000 for back taxes, that property may be valued at more than that. Wouldn't it be within our rights for the city to take possession of that property opposed to putting that property up for auction?

It had been discussed prior, but it had never been anything done with it. And so as with it as in the city never made any decision whether they were going to take ownership of the property and so because of that then I just sold the property. Okay. So, we would have to make some sort of a decision that we're going to have had to pay the taxes in L because if we only if they only owe $500 and it's about to go up for sale and the property is worth $5,000, somebody pays the $500. They just got a $5,000 piece of property that the city could have gotten for that $500. It was more than that. I'm just using

Right. I understand. But the city isn't that the way it works. Well, my thing is, do we have or do we need to pass an ordinance or something so that we get first shot at properties before the public gets a shot at the property so that we can have property in our inventory? My understanding is that if a city wants to per take ownership of a property, it has to go through the same guidelines as any other. You can't. So, we would have to bid on property with with P. Okay.

Yes, sir. You can't just take No. No person can come into my office and say so and so's property owns owes taxes. I want to pay those taxes and take ownership. The state of Virginia does not allow that. You have to go through all the legal aspects of ownership. I I I understand that. Mind the thing is we're the ones putting the property up for auction for the taxes.

So once we've got our once the amount for the tax is secure whether it's in funds or whether it's in property we have collected what we you know wanted out of the property. I'm just saying wouldn't we be would we would it be against the law for us to say we rather than take the taxes we put a lean on the property and we keep the property if the taxes are unsatisfied to answer No I'm not I I don't think that's the way the legal process works.

Uh it does have to go through an auction and has to go to sale. Uh local governments are welcome to go and bid at the sale and sometimes they do if it's properties they want to acquire. Uh and certainly local governments are welcome to to show up and bid in such a situation where it's under bid for example and take ownership at that point. the example there, if the city had been there and this gentleman bid way below the amount of the taxes that were due, uh, the city could have said, you know, I'll bid them by a thousand bucks and then the the city could have taken ownership, but the city would be out the money and be sitting on floodplane property and that's obviously a policy decision for the city,

but out the you say out the money, but if we build the $1,000 more, that $1,000 goes back to that 500 of that would go to the taxes. Well, there's no question it would go. So, we would get our tax money because that tax money comes to the city. Correct. And we would get the property for 500 using these numbers. We get that property for that. That's something that the city could consider. Um, obviously, you'd have to make sure that you had the cash flow to make that happen. As you said, it goes back to the city if if it's for the taxes.

There are expenses, however, that go to the attorney that's doing the sale, to the auctioneer. there are costs of publication and things like that, but but generally speaking, you know, that's a possibility the city was interested. Now, my second question was um these people that owe property uh personal property taxes, they are one of your tools that you mentioned is the uh DMV stops. Now those are used I would I assume those are used predominantly for individual citizens that owe money to the city. Is that correct? Correct.

So why don't we enforce the same type thing on businesses that owe us for their owners. So if the business owes a Let me make sure I'm understanding. You're asking if a if a business I own a restaurant and I owe you taxes. DMV is for vehicle registrations only. It's the division of motor vehicles. Got you. So if that if that entity owns vehicles, then you can put stops on that in that that business's vehicles. I do. I already do that. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. I do that.

They have to have the business. It doesn't It can be in the business's name or it can be in their individual name. So if the business has it in their personal property bold and it's in the business's name, we can stop the businesses from registering any other vehicles as well as renewing any license, but it's tied only to the vehicle not it's it's tied to the individual vehicle. I cannot collect any other property owning like meals tax, lodging tax, business I can or business license. I cannot collect that based on the license for the vehicle. It is tied only to the taxes for the vehicle. Now when the taxpayer comes in and you know we're going to be hey you owe this this and this don't we want to get you current and so but we can to get them to release the division of motor vehicle stop there is a law that requires us to only we can only collect it tied to that vehicle or to um for example I'll use myself I have two cars and if I don't pay one vehicle but I pay on the other. The stop can prevent me from doing anything on both vehicles at at right now. Legislation is trying to change a little bit of that, but right now I can stop anything with my spouse as well as myself on either vehicle. Because again, my concern is we're being able to um implement, you could say, for lack of another word, I'll say a punishment on citizens when they don't pay their taxes. We stop, you know, we put stops on them. But a business that doesn't pay their taxes, we don't have any punishment for them except work out terms. Well, if the business has a

vehicle or vehicle that they utilize and it's in the business's name, we put a lean or DMV stop on that business vehicle. But if I own a business, if I own um Acme Barbecue Place, Greg McLemore owns Acme Barbecue Place and Acme Barbecue owes the city of Franklin taxes, you can't put and I don't think there are LLC's and stuff, but uh so you can't put nothing on me. You have to put it on the business. Correct. Gotcha. Yes.

Um I have u one question and [snorts] that is maybe to miss Bab or or or or to legal um to Andrew and that is um when is um imminent domain relevant in any of these situations? That's a good question. But I have not had to deal with the animate domain. Right now, most of all of our properties are owned by someone. Okay. Yeah. I imminent domain really doesn't come in. I mean, treasurer has no power of imminent domain.

Imminent domain is a separate power. If the city wants to take property for a public purpose and pay fair market value, uh then that's a just completely separate process from tax collection by the treasurer. Okay. Thank you. Do you have comment? I was just going to add the additional uh condition that if a business needed to come in for their business license renewal, um delinquent taxes could also affect their ability to get their license renewed with the city.

That does I should have said that, but I thought you were just talking about the DMV. I cannot put a stomp on a business just because they haven't paid their business license unless they have an ownership of a vehicle. That DMV means vehicles. is the vehicle registration.

Okay. So, right now I am still investing um any monies that we don't need for immediate needs. Right now I have 13 million invested and right now I'm earning about a 3.89. If any of you watched the market, it's steadily decreasing. But um I still feel that the company that um I've utilized with Virginia Investment Pool um I have invested the city's money and the stable liquidity. That means that I have quicker access to the money. It's not tied up for any length of time. it is if money is needed by 2 pm on at whatever said date prior to that time I can actually pull that money out of Virginia Investment and by 5:00 it's it's put into the bank account. Um I try not to do that. I look at the portfolio for the city and I try to look at a three month span of what we think our payroll for schools as well as for um the locality and I keep that much money in our account so we can pay our bills.

How much have we you said you in you invested [snorts] on our behalf 13 million. How much have we made profit off of that 13 million? So investment, I've had higher amounts in investments, but we've had to pay some. But looking back, I have earned the city about a 1.2 million in um interest revenue for the locality in the past. But have we lost that because of the fluctuation of the market?

Uh no. Um we it we're still gaining we're just gaining right now at a 3.89 where I was gaining 4.6 and stuff like that. So when I say we're it's you know low it is the actual interest rate that we're lowing. So we haven't lost any money. Absolutely not. Okay. Thank you. No sir.

And that um VIP is a program through the VML Veco. So many of you are very familiar with that. So it's a very wellrusted um investment company. So um just a little synopsis of the office. Uh my uh real estate collection rate is 99.96. My real my personal property is 96.39. Um the treasures association has a very strong um leadership role and we um keep our offices very intact and we offer an office accreditation. I've earned the office accreditation for the 12th year in a row and I received the plaque and it is um I get a little plaque each year. Um to receive that the award has to have a colle the office has to have a collection rate of 95% or higher in real estate. As you can tell I had that and 90% or higher in personal property. We have a lot of other requirements that are set forth by our association and our leadership team. Um, if any of you would like to come in and see that, I have that on the the wall of what the requirements are. I feel very honored that my office has met those requirements and we continue to achieve that award. Last year at the 93rd um annual conference, I was given the prestigious president's award by our president um for my leadership through my own locality as well as the leadership that I portray to our association. I was very honored to um receive that. I was also selected by our association to be the

national um director for the state of Virginia. So I will attend the national association meetings as the director for the state of Virginia. Well done, Miss B.

Thank you. I also received uh the accounting certificate from the Ratford University and I have I will tell you I have been in finance the financial background since the late 70s and I can tell you what that was a very rigorous um accounting certificate but I was very pleased that um I did receive that certificate. Um I also have um the association has a certification pro um program through the University of Virginia's welding cooper. I have myself and my deputy. We both received our certifications and I'm very pleased to state that I've got another employee in that program, Miss Thelma Pikeet. She is working towards her certification as well. this certification program. It's uh the career development program. It gives us the ability to um educate our staff. We have a very fast-paced office and sometimes we throw their responsibilities at them. This career development also gives them the opportunity to take online classes as well as 10 classes. um so they can learn how to do their jobs and better serve our citizens. And last but not least, I want to just give my staff a big thank you. Their professionalism and dedication to this city is immensel and they do a great job. This office could not be successful without my team and I greatly appreciate all of them. Um, I think that's it. But I did have a

couple of other things for the um I think Brent is driving this. So, just as this last um I think you probably have this in your pamphlet. It shows this right here. Um, and this is just a a smaller synopsis just went over the real estate, you know, for real estate to have only 42,000 in delinquent um taxes. That's just amazing. I think when I took the office it was like 1.5 million and now we have $42,000 in delinquencies. I just I think that shows that we h our citizens are taking the responsibility of paying their taxes. Do we have some that don't? Yes, that's always going to be the case. But, you know, to have only 42,000 of delinquent real estate taxes, it's really um I say good. Um, and then of course your personal property, your mills tax, your business license for a total of the 443,000 for a city that our size and talking to my other localities, my other counterpartners, this is this is not bad. Um, does that make us sit back and be a little slack on our job? No, it's not because our job is to bring the revenues. I make a kind of a joke to the locality. It is my job to bring it in. so everybody else can spend it. So, but um I take my job seriously and um it is, you know, my pleasure to be your treasurer and um my door is always open. Anytime you want to come in and chat about anything, please feel free.

The next thing that I do need to bring to you is the statute of limitations. It requires me to charge off uh personal property of anything over five years um current plus five. So I am coming to you tonight for the state um code 58.13940. I think it's in your um packet that I will need approval from lo the governing body to charge off $25,98484 in personal property. That is just the tax amount that I need approval for you. And that is for the tax year 2018.

It didn't get put in our back. What was the amount again? Oh, it's not. It's farther back. You have to go through all the um the names and then you'll get to one that says like it was in the it was in the email packet we got, but I don't it only got printed. Oh, okay. As I was joking with the treasure earlier, it was about 70 pages of documentation. So, we we didn't take the liberty of printing everyone a copy. Um but it is in your email attachments. Okay. So, the amount that I need approval from the governing body is to charge off 2018 uh personal property and the amount is $25,984.84 and I will

make a motion. Make a motion. I have a second. Second. All right. Any discussion on this? All right. Take a vote. Dr. Johnson, you'll start. I I I I I and I motion car.

I will rest assure we have done every bit of diligence to try to collect those. The next packet um is in your email packet is about the deceased properties. Um, we have, as I explained, the commissioner, she goes through the records and these are no longer taxable. And I need approval for the locality, I mean, from the governing body to charge off 13,731.39 of deceased taxpayers. That is not just one year. It's a cumulative years of what's on the book um books for the deceased. Okay. Have a motion. So move.

Second, Miss B. I work for the funeral home and I'm not going back to collect it. So I'm going to second that motion. [laughter] There you go. Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Yeah. Question. Once they're deceased and we write this off, um what happens to the property at that point? Most of the properties um the commissioner has already looked at. They're junked. They're no longer on the active role of DMV. So, they're very they're not on the role for DMV. They're not in the DMV role. So, most of them have been junked or um when something's junked, who who takes possession of it?

Uh it could have been a family member who somebody died and then they had a junkyard come and pick up a piece of um one of the properties. I'm I'm a little lost. How do you pick up a property? Real estate. I mean, it's not real estate. I mean they can just say combine. Oh, you talk you talking about ve like vehicles and stuff. Yes, sir. Personal property. Okay. I thought you meant Okay. Personal property, not real estate. Sorry. Gotcha. Personal property is vehicles. I'll make myself clear. Personal property is vehicles. Real estate is for your um a house. A lot of people get them mixed up. So, I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear. Okay. [clears throat] Deceased real estate.

That's okay. No, no, no. If they're if they're deceased and it's real estate, we we get their um ownership, whoever gets um ownership of the property. The final one is to charge off. This is We can do one at a time. Yeah, we need a vote. I I did have that we have a motion to second. I did have a question. When I looked at all 39 pages of that of those that list with the deceased people, so there were several people I knew were deceased that that they were be included in this. Okay. All right. Any other questions? All right. It's hard to separate it with the software we have. Yes, sir. I was talking. I I

I and I carried it and your last one.

And my last one, this is going to be a little interesting. Um, we have two properties. They are real estate under the real estate property, but they are orphaned map numbers. They're not property, but they have been sold, split, sold, and split. And the old software that we had in Bright. Um, many of you, you remember the AS400, and it was Bright. When we brought that over to Edmonds, those were called orphaned map numbers. They do not have any ownership of it. and those two properties have been sitting out there inactive and no ownership. Um, so I need and based on the 20 year um, state code of statute of limitations, I no longer can even try to research them and find them. The commissioner and I have done some research a few years back and we just they like I said, these mount numbers do not exist in in her role. So I need this approval. They're 2003 and 2004 and they amount to $2,392.36. And all this is doing is clearing up the negative um accounts, the inactive accounts that we no longer can collect on.

Okay. Um have a motion. So move. Second. All right. Any discussion on this one? All right. I'll take the vote. I I I I and I unanimous. Thank you very much. Thank you. And that concludes my presentation and I'll see you in a year. Thank you very before you go. Sorry. [laughter] Before you go. Yes sir.

You had said um in your presentation that with the monies that you invest uh you take out you leave out a certain portion to pay bills and things like that. that would come out of that 13 million investment.

No sir, I leave monies set aside in the main operating account plus the money that's sitting in the investment is a separate account. It has nothing to do with what we have in our main operating account. I keep enough money in our operating account for the locality to pay its bills. And and the reason I ask about that is we had a few months back, several months back, we had a discussion in regards to the school getting money that we had not approved of that was above our budgeted amount. And I was wondering where are we in the kind of the same situation? There's monies there that you can they can spend, but are they our monies or are they their monies? So they have their own budget and the city has their own budget. The schools are responsible for their budget. Now does this the city maintains the accounts for the schools? I I maintain the accounts. I keep a spreadsheet. Now since the schools were having their issue and we were under uh director finance when we didn't have one with uh that was here any length of time. Um I have now started monitoring them on a day a monthly basis and she and I this uh school's finance director and I um have a conversation on her amounts that they are short. I now share that information with the school board's chair, vice chair, the director of finance for the schools, the um superintendent and um I also share it with the

department uh director of finance for the city as well as the city manager. So every month I send them a report of the school's income and expenditures that used to be done in the finance and now that we are not having uh that's not being monitored the way it was in the years past. I've taken that on for my own peace of mind so that I'm not and we are not we as a city are not in the same predicament we were last year. So, so there was a short shortfall. Was it a shortfall as reported? We're still looking. It was based on my numbers. Correct.

Based on my numbers. Okay. Thank you. Anything else? Right. Um, thank you, Miss B. Thank you very much. I'll see you. Thank you, Miss B.

All right. All right. Right. We have uh I'm sorry, two budget amendments um during the regular agenda. Uh one is of course they're both just transferring funds. The first one is to transfer funds um from a grant from the OBC Foundation. There's some paperwork in the back. It's there's $75,000 coming in to us to the OBC uh grant that it's going to go back over to them because it's for the schools. Do I have a motion to accept that to to approve that. So move second. Have a motion to second. Any discussion on that? All right. Dr. I.

Nick. I I I I. The second one is um from a uh the math innovation grant $152,357 uh for the schools that we have to transfer over. Um, and I'll take a motion for that, please. So, move second. All right. Motion to second. Any discussion? All right. Take a vote. Dr. I. Nay. I I I I

and I and then we have two items of um believe it's two items of new business. The first is um the first uh notice that we're going to do a public hearing at our next meeting for the acceptance of the deed. Anything you want to say with that? Just to um repeat what stated in the summary, which is this would be an ordinance to accept a deed of gift um of the parcel that's commonly referred to as the Deer Creek parcel from um the Franklin Parks Foundation to the city of Franklin. And the draft of the deed of gift is in your packet.

All right. Uh and then that will come up again next uh next meeting. And then an ordinance amending the city code to amend the salaries for the members of council um which has not been done since 1998 um per Mr. for the new uh regulations from the state up to the um up to the allowed amounts that are listed and that will come up again as a public hearing for our next meeting. Um city manager report I'm sorry we're not allowed to have any discussion before the public hearing.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you have of it at this time.

Okay. My question and concern is about the um the acceptance of the deed of gift for Deer Creek, the Deer Creek parcel. Like have we discussed anything with our department heads about this because I kind of remember it coming back a while ago and would say that if I can keep my comments at a high level, but have discussed this with the primary department heads who I believe would be care responsibility, parks and wreck and public works. Um I think it's it's safe to say that um there's certainly going to need to be consideration within their budgets for the ongoing operation and maintenance particularly um particularly in a in future phases where you might be looking at utilizing the campsites for reservations etc. Um but uh but this is an opportunity and I know that this is a I'll say a conversation that the city's been having with the foundation for a number of years. We're we're ready to advance the deda gift to accept it at the city. Yep. So, I remember um former male mayor Rabel coming in and kind of having a discussion with us. And I think the main concern for me, it's not more so the gifting of the land. I think that's beautiful, but how much is it going to cost the city in the long run to maintain it? So, I don't know if we can get some of those answers and prepare it for the public before the public hearing. Yes, I will say um working to pull some of those costs together. Given the the type of property it is, a fairly, you know, it's say a wilderness environment um etc. I think it's it's going to be somewhat of a a sophisticated estimate of what some of those ongoing maintenance costs will be, but we can provide that. I would I would like to uh chime in on that subject matter and say that before we make any decision on uh deeding this property as a gift that we have a workshop including the department of recreation and the public works

department so that we can uh make sure that our two departments are happy and satisfied with this uh the the decision that we ultimately will have to make. So I think that we should hear from them and they should be a part of discussion before we make a decision. Can we do that at u the night of the bubble hearing? Um we certainly can do that and can either discuss with you mayor or with council as to what the right format is whether to do a work session prior to the full meeting on the 23rd if that's what's requested. I think so. I would think a work session a work session. the work

and I'd like to put that in a form of a motion that we will have a work session to uh have uh take the input of the two departments before we make a decision. Second a motion and a second. Um first of all, should we have a motion to accept the gift? No, that comes after public hearing. Okay. So, we're taking a motion on a workshop and to public hearing, right? Which will be to be held next at our next meeting. Cor before the meeting before the stand. All right. Any further discussion? Dr. Johnson. I I I I I

I All right. And then u we're on to the city manager report. That's public hearing as well. I don't think we don't have to again. Are we going to disc are we going to have any discussion about that before we vote on it or have a public hearing on it? Well, couldn't we add that to the uh workshop that we're having on the do both things at the same time? I don't have a problem with that if that's what y'all whatever was the will of my colleagues. So, yeah, I would think

I don't think we need I don't think we we can have a motion, but I don't think we need a motion to set an agenda item. Is that correct? It would I did not believe so. But so if there's a desire to change what's on the plan public hearing so that we can notice that we can certainly take a action of council, but I don't believe we've traditionally voted on the upcoming public hearings. Right. Okay. Now any other questions? All right. Why are we asking for a workshop on the pay rates? That's a a fair question. Yeah, I didn't I didn't ask for it. So,

be clear, the workshop is not well work session is not for anything um other than to see how they plan to maintain it. I think being a good steward, we should you know have at least a plan or an awareness of how the city is going to maintain this and how much it is going to be. the part but he he asked about the pay. There's a significant difference between the two.

I think I I think that what needs to be discussed in regards to that is what are the uh numbers that would be considered or acceptable by this body since that rest that decision rests with this body. We would know what uh parameters we would have to work within and the city manager can give us some sort guidance or recommendations that might be um feasible for the budget as well as to address the fact of I guess you could say the basic cost of living increase. So that's what I would think we would be discussing but I don't know if how you want to have a word session or just discussion prior to a public hearing. My thought was we were already having a a work session. We can just we could have that discussion during the work session, didn't

uh that was my thought. We just have that discussion during during the u work session that we're already going to do. Uh right to find out the perimeters because um through the state there is a requirement u basically by the number of u Yeah, that's that's that's included in this. Yes. Yes.

Um All right. And if I'm just additional context, but um uh as council is aware, um last year's general assembly session was the first time the general assembly has given localities this authority to raise council member mayoral salaries since 1998. Um the legislation as drafted now raises it to the new threshold set by the state. However, any other option is available to council, including lower numbers, um a phase in approach or otherwise. Um but we can certainly discuss both the fiscal impacts for this coming budget if it stands as it is or what the impact would be of any alternative path. Frank, thank you. All right.

Bottom line, Mr. Suns, we're not voting on a raise for ourself,

the person that follows us, unless we win another election. Um it it would not go into effect until July 1 of 2027. It would be effective for all members, including those who are not who are in the middle of their term, just to be be very clear. Um and knowing that several members are, you know, half the council has an election this year as well as the mayoral seat. Um that does meet the state requirement for having an intervening election. However, um it it would not require it to have a disparity between the council members and what they're paid just because you didn't have an inter We're we're voting on a we're voting on a raise for for for what is this? March. So 15 months from now, correct? Yes, sir.

No, I was just saying that those people who are not up for reelection, if if it was a pass by council, those people who are not up for reelection would be able to benefit from it. Yes. In January 2027. July one of 2027. July of 2027. Uh, we're good. All right. So, fifth time city manager report.

Okay. All right. Um, just briefly want to share three community events and then um a couple of topic updates. Uh, the first is um advisory for the public. On Saturday, March 21st at 11:00 am um at the Armory Complex, we have the Parks and Wreck helicopter egg drop. Um the uh um Franklin Department of Parker Recreation as well as the Camp 25 uh Incorporated nonprofit um have their basketball and cheer uh camps every Sunday um on March 1st, 8th, 15th, and 22nd at Franklin High School. Uh and then the Franklin Fire Soccer Club practices every Monday and Wednesday. Games starting in April and registration is still open for those who are interested in participating. Moving. Um the next item just for discussion is uh both from hearing from council members is wearing aware of community feedback. Uh am aware that there is a lot of both angsts as well as concern related to utility bills. Um uh I shared some information with you all earlier today um just to help kind of show the picture that this is a challenge that we're seeing in communities certainly across Virginia but across much of the nation. Um last month's uh weather was the coldest in more than a decade and and in some over some periods coldest in uh 40 or 50 years. Um for those of our our residents whose home is heat heated particularly with a heat pump uh it's important to realize that heat pumps um particularly when they switch into the auxiliary heating mode which is often happens when temperatures drop precipitously um or or low for extended periods of time. Um, your auxiliary heating system is roughly three times as energy reliant or consumes three times as much energy as you would uh on a normal on a normal day or on a normal um heating cycle. Um, as the council is well aware, um, the city has not changed its rates. Believe

the last rate adjustment was a 2% rate adjustment in 2021. Um so rates have are are consistent across utility bills um both from last year to this year as well as one month to the next. Uh it's consumption that is largely been driving up uh bills for individuals across really across much of the nation that's experienced this extreme cold spell for um for the prior month. Um also will say that internally um having some discussions um related to our kind of utility billing services as and um looking at some potential changes to increase their um I'll say operational performance. Um that's an item I would like to discuss with council members individually and so I'll be reaching out to have some discussions regarding that um prior to the next meeting as well as to share some um updates related to economic development. Um we do have some prospects that myself as well as Carl Hec are working on some of which um uh council members are aware of some of which are are newer and emerging. And so um I do plan to reach out to you all individually to discuss some of those um updates just provide some status update particularly giving my pending transition.

Um yes sir. If we can go back to the utility u billing because I've had a lot of u uh concerned citizens call me about that. I've gotten numbers from 400 to 500 to 600 to 9 thousand and so forth. Is it possible that we could u we've done this in the past had um perhaps Zach to come uh to the next meeting to explain you did a good job explaining the heat pump because I have one

and my heat pump was off the chain the last three weeks, you know, bill was high and so forth. But um for the satisfaction of the citizens um because we need address this uh situation uh with clarity so everybody will understand what's going on. So to probably next winter prepare for something like that uh if that be the case having to just give an analysis of u uh how that works. I think that would be um advantageous uh for us

whether that's in the form of a a presentation or an opportunity to hear from the utility director at the next meeting. I think we can yes probably where council would have a an opportunity where citizens have asked us questions we could sort of relay those to him because he would perhaps have the answers to those questions. Absolutely. Um We'll also just say that I think there's some additional information we can share um related to Franklin's rates related compared to other utility providers across Virginia and how um you know based on our analysis um you know our rates are significantly lower than what

other customers are seeing in Virginia today without calling out anybody individually. Um, and I think that it would be a great opportunity for us to share some of that information. Um, particularly as it heads into your discussion during the budget related to utility rates, right? Because I think it would be a learning experience because we have to realize as a nation uh that utilities are going up everywhere. It's not only in Franklin, but it's everywhere. And we have to understand uh how that works so it better educates us. prepare uh for the future. Thank you. Thank you. I would also I have a comment. Yes.

Is there any way I sent you an email can we offer an extension or payment plan since the bills are extremely high? Um as as you're aware, the utility department offers payment plans for individuals. I think individuals are eligible to um be put into a payment plan once every six months. uh and as long as they stay current with that would be able to to do so. Uh I do think there's an there the city policy does say that if an individual has defaulted on a payment plan, they're not eligible for a new one with for a calendar year. Um but we are we're certainly ready and willing to put place people on payment plans if that's um what helps get them through.

I guess as a council I'm asking can we come up with give them another extension? I'm asking the council. I agree. Well, if I may say this, I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, there's only one extension per year for a client. Uh, we may want to look at extending that uh further due to the fact of uh the way the economy is now uh with economical situations. Am I correct on that or

as as I believe I stated a moment ago, my understanding of current city policy is that um citizens are eligible for to be for one payment plan every six months. So up to twice a year, correct? So it's up to twice a year. I was told by several clients that they tried to get a a second extension and they were told that they couldn't get a second extension. I guess if it was within that six-month period, that would be my understanding of the policy. That said, we can certainly discuss any discuss alternatives. Yeah, I I just need clarity.

Yeah, I I if if I I would like to propose that we have at a lot uh squeezed in there, but we need to have a workshop on that because there are several things that need to be discussed. I'm in agreement with um the vice mayor that um we should be looking at giving these people another uh some sort of extension because if a person applied for an extension under say normal circumstances, they lost their job or or anything kind of like normal that they might apply for an extension. Well, these are extenduating circumstances. You talk about the weather that we've had and how it is adversely affecting the citizens and everybody's bill across the country is is raised then special circumstances require special addresses. So therefore, I don't think it's unreasonable for us to uh mandate that we have we do offer some sort of relief because if I was on a payment plan now all of a sudden I just got a $900 bill. Come on, man. I need I need some more help. It ain't that I'm not trying to make my payments on what I've been doing, but I can't do that and make this $900 payment, too, unless you can give me some kind of grace. So, I think that just to say that we already have something in place and just leave it at that, I think is disingenuous to um helping our citizens.

Mr. Mr. Mackmore, if I can just respond in direct. I wasn't saying that that I was saying that that was city policy. That's been the policy before I arrived. That's the policy since I've been here. I believe it's an administrative policy and I'd be welcome to be glad to discuss with council whether we want to make an administrative change or if council wants to pursue an ordinance or otherwise um to that effect. Fair enough to me. Yeah, Miss Banks. Go ahead.

So, I would personally like to see an extension to the first of the month. the the bills are normally due around the 20th and um in my opinion we heard earlier 52% under poverty u most people get paid around the first of the month um so an extension to the first of of the month in my opinion would be ideal it is very hard to budget you know you can say well you know the bill is going to come every month and yes we do but when it is a sporadic difference I mean I'm just speaking from personal experience experience here. My bill has doubled since moving in um the place that I'm in now. And I mean, I can afford to pay for it, yes, but I realize that everybody's not in that same situation. If I was budgeting my account every month based off of my bill in September to now, it would be double. So, I don't think that an extension is so far-fetched to ask for. Are you so just to be clear this is a maybe it's nuance here but previously we were discussing a second payment plan council mammore was speaking to giving people the ability to do an additional payment plan that's certainly one one topic if council would like administration to look at providing an extension of the due date for from March 23rd to April 1st that's something that we may be able to do even more easily Well, to me to me, um, the reason I chose the route that I choose is because if you give me till the first and as you were saying, I've already budgeted based on what my income is and keeping my electric. My electric is normally whatever $300 a month. So, I've kind of budgeted that and I'm ready for that. Then all of a sudden a bill comes in for

900. Well, but you don't have to give it to us till we give you two more weeks. That really Yeah. That really don't help me a whole lot, you know, cuz I ain't going to come up with all that money in that short amount of time. So I need something that is going to be able to benefit me a little more than so a second payment plan might be a a little better, you know, because of these extenduating circumstances. Oh, I didn't know you. Yeah, go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Saunders for doing your research and giving us to show that it's all about that usage and the amount of res um insulation. Um I've only been here six years. Probably 20 people have come up here and said that they had a 900 7 or 800 bill. When the light company looks into it, they're two or three months behind. So they don't ever bring that up. So tonight we were supposed by social media we were supposed to be inundated with people voting us out and coming to talk about the electric bill. Nobody nobody's here. Um so I agree we all have a heart. We all should give people the time they need. I don't know how my wife keeps electric bill 140 a month.

Oh just amazing. Um an electric bill. I don't mean all four aspects but electric bill. Um, I just don't see why it's so hard to plan and budget and I don't get a discount because and and too many people in the city have been told it's two different electric rates, south side of town, north side out of town, which is not only illegal, but it's absurd to even think about it. Um, everybody pay but seven of us pay the same amount. There's no difference between us. That's my opinion.

My bill was 200 this month and it's just me and a Labradoodle. So, um, my thought was I was get what I was getting. We got off agenda. Well, I'm still on the budget plan. I like the idea of the budget plan personally. Ladies and gentlemen, please. Um, I I was going to ask Miss Bab a question. I know utility billing is not your Yeah.

I know I know you don't handle utility billing. No, sir. Uh I do collecting of it. Yeah, you do the collecting of it. Do you know what the payment plan options are for people currently that are on a payment plan?

If they um that is a utility billing question. my knowledge of what it is is the utility billing. They will put it into a payment plan and break it down. What happens with that payment plan is it comes across to the treasur's office. They have to pay the current bill by the 20th. If they're on a payment plan, say they break it up for six months and they have to pay X dollars. When that 20, the new bill comes out and it is due on the 20th, they have to pay it by the 20th along with the payment plan to be able to continue that payment plan.

So, they pay the current bill plus the upcoming bill plus the payment plan. Yes, sir. And it's typically six months they give them. I I can't say that. they they talk to the uh individual and work it out that way. That is a utility billing. I think uh we can look into it and get back um I can get back with uh have one of the utility billings get back with Mr. Saunders and talk. But that is the knowledge that I have. Okay. Thank you. Didn't mean to put you on the spot, but I thought,

if I understood it correctly, I'm on a playment plan from the past, and I have promised to pay this $600 off at $100 a month payment plan. You're saying that I've got to pay that $100 on that past bill as well as this new $900 bill I lose the payment plan that I had for the $100. Is that correct?

It's the knowledge that I have that I have worked with several individuals. That's my knowledge. Um, but I I will defer that and get back with you. But that is the knowledge that I have when I have helped a citizen before. If they were on a payment plan, for example, they had a $600 and they broke it out for six months. I'm just using figures. They're not factual. Okay? They they would break that $100 and that 600 into six payments of a hundred. the upcoming 20th do um bill would have to be the new bill and the $100 to stay on. That's what I said. So,

but I would like to re do research. I will get back with um Mr. Saunders or have his um the utility bill and get back with Mr. Saunders. But that sounds roughly what what it would be. I mean, I think the question would be whether what I don't have at the top of my head, but I can find out is how many months will we let you spread it out if you have a delinquency? Do we is it 6 months, 12 months or or a different amount of dates? But but yes, you would have to pay your current month's bill and your your portion of your payment plan for that month to not fall into further delinquis. I

I think what what I was trying to ask So that's if they are already on a payment plan. So if they if you if their bill is 900 this month and and it's the crazy bill and we put you on a payment plan for that 900 and then your next bill is 200 or 300 then you pay whatever that bill is plus the plus the payment plan. So, if somebody had that high dollar bill, yeah, during the the worst of the season, they could be they could ask for a payment plan for that high dollar bill, but going forward, the upcoming bill would have to be paid on the 20th, not the 21st, because then they'll want to remove it from the payment plan.

Okay. And the city also offers a a budget bill where you pay the same amount every month based on your average correct previous year. and then July you true up right so if you have a bill they'll take your average 12 month bill they'll put you on a budget plan that budget plan whether you have a high dollar bill one month and a low bill it averages out and then at the end of the budget plan you have to pay true up you could have a credit if it worked out that way you could have where you owed the city some additional funds for that true up and then when you do that true up you can't another budget plan until you true up.

So, also I I I pay my electric my utility bill through the budget plan. So, it's so so I can budget it easier. And they will notify you early if if you if you're going to owe extra money, they'll give you a few months to try to catch it up before you don't you have this absorbed amount. I've always thought the budget plan was a smart way to go if you can get it. Council members, if I may, just everybody can get it. And Mr. Captain, um, Miss Hill can back me up on this, so Miss Peterson, social services has a summertime plan that they pay for your electricity. I think it's for three months.

Is it It's been a while since I was on that board, but is it they pay your whole bill or they just pay and they they divide that up by those months?

Miss Hill, would you come to cooling uh service that they have now. You may be approved in December but they won't pay the start paying the bill I think until March. So that you can be approved in December but you still responsible for December, January, February bill because the the funds don't start take place to pay your bill until March. But they do set up a cooling and heating which is they don't pay right then that the timing of what that is related to when the city receives those funds from the federal and state

and also you have to in order to get assistance. Is this true that you have to be have a a a cut off notice in order to receive assistance? That is totally different.

No, not with the heating and cooling system. you don't but it's it's set on the amount of money that you income it's based it's a income based thing. So again if if you're say you're below poverty uh you may be $1 short to say you don't qualify because it's based on a certain amount of money that you have per household. So, it's it's you have to be qu you have to qualify and then if you do qualify again that's what some people get mixed up at. They think that if they get it in you approve in December the money start paying in December but it doesn't it doesn't pay start paying until March. So, they're still responsible for that you know those months.

Thank you. Thank you, M. I appreciate putting both of you on the spot miss. So, Miss Hill is actually correct on a lot of that. That comes from the state and they have to apply by certain dates for the heating and cooling assistance. Heating is in their deadline is by November the 15th that they have to apply. Once they get an approval, then that goes is filtered through my office and my deputy sends the state their bills. And unfortunately, Miss Hill is correct. A lot of the citizens expect that they've gotten it qualified for 500, 400, $600. They still have to pay that bill November, December, January, because nine times out of 10, we're not going to get the bill. If their bill, if they've been qualified for $600, but their bill is only $200 for this month, we have to submit it back to the state. This is their bill. and then we have to turn around and submit another bill to the state so we get the second bill. They're not going to get that whole $600 the date that they get qualified for it. They're not going to get it on their first bill unless their f their full bill is for their full payment. So we have been trying for the last however many years educating the citizens. Please you are qualified for this much money. We will not receive it. We cannot give you the money till we receive it. We're trying to educate the DSS when they talk to them to let them know as well as when they come in, we let them know. Now, now that is I think within our scope as council now and I'm not recommending this now, but I am stating this that we could give our citizens

we could So, you mean to tell me if the state is going to pay the $600 in March, we can't allow those citizens to let that bill float until March? We tried that one year and we were told by the state we cannot no longer do that. We did it one year [snorts] and we did that. We bit the bullet. We paid the money upfront if you qualified for $600. We gave you the funds. It was the finance department, city um administration, the finance, and the treasur. We worked together. We gave them the funds. The state said we could not do that.

Okay. Before you go, um this predates Mr. [clears throat] Saunders. So, I'm not gonna put you on for this one, but uh Miss Bab, since you are up here, um is it true because I this is a battle I fought several years ago and I hear that it's come back to rear its ugly head that if your name is put on a cut off list, you are still required to pay a $75 fee even though your electric has not been cut off. Is that true? Let me make sure I'm understanding. You're asking me if somebody has been on the list.

If you're It was simply put, if your name is on the list, you have to pay a cut off fee. Now, the way that came about, people's people were scheduled to have their election cut off on the 10th. They came in on the 7th and they paid their bill. Well, your name was already on the list, so you still have to pay the $75 because you were on the cut off list. Is that true? Because I thought we killed that.

That I would need to do a little more research on that. We get um we don't get a cut off list like you we used to 10 years ago. We get it is automatically in the system. So predominantly what I'm hearing from my staff and I'll do some research for you is they're cut off. That's when the $75 is added because it's all done electronically. It is not they go out and drive around and cut you off. It's done through the automated system. So our understanding is if they're cut off that $75 is on there. We get a notice on our side of the system disconnect and we see a 75 that means they have already been disconnected.

So they will not be charged a $75 unless they have actually been disconnected. I'd have to do some research but that's my understanding. If I'm wrong that's the way it's supposed to be. If you don't re disconnect somebody they don't have to pay a $75 fee. And people are telling me that they're still being charged disconnect fees and they haven't been disconnected. I have a question really quick. Is it possible to get an average a monthly average per ward? Like if we per six wards I would like to see on average how much each ward monthly water. I'm sorry. Did you say for the wards or water?

The wards. Ward one, two, three, four, five, and six. I would have to defer that with um Yep. So that's what I would I would like an average a monthly average per ward to see what we're averaging at per ward. I cannot speak definitely whether that's possible within our system. Again, I don't know that our system currently breaks residences down by what ward they live in. Um that said, I'm happy to look into it and see how close I can get to what you're requesting. Please. Thank you. Thanks. Um, Sibly asks, "What difference does that make?"

Well, when you say that your electric bill is 140 and mine is 200, that just raises a red flag for me. Um, I've heard of I I know when my grandparents were living, I paid their utilities. I lived in a three-story home on North High Street. My bill was about 600. They lived in a three-bedroom, one-story home on Bank Street, and theirs was a little bit more. And it was, you know, at the time I was paying both my grandparents' bills and my bills. And I would compare the electricity bills. And I, you know, at the time I spoke to Miss Jared, she came out, had somebody to look at the meter because I did think that was strange that my house that was significantly larger than they had two units. We had a washer and dryer. They didn't even have a dryer. They were elderly. Um, I thought that was very interesting. So, I'm just curious. Now, this has been a conversation for a long time. I read a post today on Facebook um where a young lady said her bill was $600 is hard to continue to live. We heard about the poverty rate. She said she didn't have a pass due amount. We hear about this every year. And I think that instead of just, you know, we know that it is a part of the city's revenue. We know that it brings in money to the city to help us run, to pay salaries, but I do think we owe a due diligence to our citizens to take a deep dive into this. And I think it could help by first of all seeing according to each ward, what's average, what's the average for utility bills per ward. That could help. That could also build trust, you know, to say, hey, this ward is this, this ward is that, you know, and it is fair. Or it could raise a red flag to say something needs to be changed.

Did you compare the the talking? So you're saying it depends on what sort of time we

I'm not I said I would like to see according to the ward the average that is spent on utilities because it's just hard to believe. like I know what we say and the rates are this and that and the third, but it is hard to believe. I've heard the mayor say he's admitted to paying $54. He is on the budget plan. He did admit that. So, I'm not going to sit up here and, you know, just kind of compare, but hearing you say, I know you live in a home. I live in a townhouse. I have a Labradoodle, and I doubt that my Labradoodle is running up the electricity while I'm at Southampton High School every single day. So, it's I'm just confused as to how some people electricity bills are extremely high compared to others. If it does not affect you, if I was paying a certain amount every month, I would be fine, right? But if you can't sympathize with the people who have these bills that are paying more, then it wouldn't bother you. You wouldn't care. But for those of us who have had higher bills and had to readjust and budget, it's a problem.

So I'd like to respond since you I'd like to respond since So you're saying that people that try to conserve are not being responsible because it depends on what Okay. Okay. So I'd like to respond to the I did say I pay $54, but but I but my condo fee pays a a tremendous portion pays my water, sewage, garbage collection. So, I'm paying it. I just pay it through, but I also I have a a 900 square foot apartment. Uh, and we use oil heat.

Got oil heat. So, we our oil bill is $16,000 for the last two months. So, if you get Yeah. Yeah. Not mine. It was for the complex. Yeah. I

I want to try try to to as far as the again I I will look into the what's available as far as information related to ward based analysis. Um if I could just um professionally add a comment that one of the most effective things that I believe the council could look at going forward to help our residents is looking at um funding or um a program where we would support our residents with weatherization of their homes. We know that that energy leaks are a major driver of higher costs for energy. We know that older homes, which may also, you know, have correlations with your ward. We also know that, you know, um I've heard individuals with rental property, you know, is the landlord maintain dealing with those energy leaks when the utilities are in their name, etc. So um I've worked on programs like this in the past where you partner with organizations that can go in and do energy audits and as well as provide does that project homes there's other lots of organizations that can work in partnership with our homeowners or or renters quite frankly uh to work with them on

Habitat does it too reducing the energy leaks in their homes and therefore helping manage consumption.

Right. If I may elaborate very quickly uh I agree with what the the manager just said because the stop organization which I used to be on the board if they do that um a weatherization program would be um great for the city but I would like to look at also if we could look into perhaps applying with the state or the federal government for u an assistance program their energy assistance programs out there for uh helping citizens u as such u that that we have in the city of Franklin because there's one myth I'll call it a myth or or it may be reality and that is um uh counciloman thanks brought up uh the wards but I would like to say if we would um if we could look at the energy cost on one side of the track and the energy cost on the other side of the track and see what's going on with that because I've heard that before over and over again. But I've never got any clarity on it if that was a myth or reality, true or false. And I think the time has come that we need to address that as a council as lead for our citizens to eliminate that myth or uh or make it a reality say it's a reality. Um because uh we need to be educated on what's really happening with that. If it is housing

in one area versus another area, uh then we need to address that uh a as a council because if that that's the issue, those people need help because they don't have um the funds economically uh to do what they need to do [clears throat] to fix their house. We we need to address that um as a local as a local government. So right now I think what it is I need to know the truth. Yay or nay? You know, with that

is is the question specifically is the rate per kilowatt hour of energy usage different for any bill in the city. One side of the track or the other is that like we have a railroad track right here. Houses on this side, houses on that side. If we can get the rate what it is,

I can promise you sitting here today that the rate is the same rate for every bill payer, be it commercial, residential, or otherwise. It's the usage that determines the total bill. Again, the rate has been set at that same 11 cents per kilowatt hour since 2022. Um, and so usage is only determinant. Um, I have heard, you know, questions related to is the meter reading correctly? I believe we have the ability to verify that. I believe we have the ability to break down to a daily usage rate um for households so that we can show you know did when did you have an energy peak or you know is there was there an extenduating circumstance or otherwise. Um but I can promise you that the rate is the same on every build in the city.

So again what are we going to do now? We said about weatherization and rental property. What are we going to do now? Are we going to um offer another payment plan? Exactly. I I don't know if this is is is being properly motioned, but I'd like to make a motion that we have an emergency

um whatever you want to call it instituted so that we can give these people a uh extension and additional payment plan like we were discussing earlier so that they can get past this emergency time without worrying about what we just discussed. I'm making my my payments $100 a month, but now I got to pay this whole $900 or I'm going to lose the $100 a month payments. No, we need to do something. We need to make a decision tonight as the council that we are going to provide some sort of relief along with looking at weatherization and all of these things. But we can make a decision to do something tonight. I don't disag I don't I don't disagree.

Yeah, that's that's my Wait a minute. I think the motion was motioned seconded, but I'll start discussion if it's all right. I'm in agreement with the payment plan. I think we need to be more specific on the prevs. What is the request? I think the six months if we do if we've offered six months in the past, we could we offer that again. Let let me ask if I can repate what I believe is the motion. Can you tell me if I'm capturing it correctly? If the motion is to request that administration look at amending the policy to allow individuals on an existing payment plan to well say include their this latest bill in in that payment plan.

Pause. Not necessarily only limited to people who are on the existing payment plan, but if they are prohibited because they've had one within the last six months or let's say there's no prohibited, right? They're not prohibited from getting an additional uh um payment plan. Yeah. Because they're on one. That doesn't prevent you from being able to get one to address these current bills because you know what? There's another one coming next month.

Well, I I do hope we won't see a repeat of the cold temperatures that have driven this particular month's bills. However, if if I you know, motion or otherwise, I believe that is absolutely something we can look at. um amending for this upcoming bill cycle. Okay. So, it's a motion and a second. Well, I have have a discussion on that. I agree with what has been said. I didn't know you were trying. I didn't either. I didn't hear you. Okay. Okay.

May I please for one second, if you all remember last year, I've only been here 15 months sitting at this table. Last year, Miss Oglesbury did an extension to give us the extra time. That extension was to change the date as proposed from the 20th to the 1st. I'm in 100% agreement with doing that and us doing some research and coming back at the next meeting on the 23rd and working on this payment plan. But I think the payment plan should be, in my opinion, I'm not trying to change your motions, but you could get an extension on the payment plan you already have to include your new bill. So, it would be incorporated into the payment plan you already have. You would just change the figures and redo the calculations to keep your payment plan going. If you are not on a payment plan, this is a fine time that you could get on one, but I don't think you should be on two payment plans at the same time. I would think it would be revisited and

I can I can live with that.

Well, I was going to say um I I agree with that also, Mr. But what I'm saying is before we vote on anything tonight, we need to research because in the past in every city council I know of local government before they vote on something of of this magnitude, you do all your due diligence research before and come back on it. Because if if we do something and it's not right it'll come back and bite us in the near future and this is an important uh recommendation I agree with it something needs to be done and we want to do that but we want to do it in the right manner and fashion so it's smooth sailing no bumps in the road that's my thing

we still in discussion we're still in discussion but go ahead Mr. Mayor, so may I suggest that we move to extend this month to the to the end of the month or the first and then have a have a plan put together by the 23rd which would still be within this month.

Yeah, that that that would be my that would be retract the motion and change it. Yeah. Well, well, my my thing is one thing when we wait to the 23rd to make action. Um, that's two weeks closer to a new bill coming in. In fact, there's going to be a bill coming out is due on the 20th. So, so I'm thinking that I heard somebody through peripher.

Yeah. Let him He knows what our desire is and it is to pretty much do what Mr. Griet said. We We want to provide uh relief for our citizens who have been hit with these high bills. I like what Mr. Gri said. It's on tape. What Mr. Gri M Gri said the city manager can put this together and he basically comes back to let us know this is what we're doing at the next meeting. Not then we vote on it. I agree with Mr. Mmore on that. Okay. So, do we want to retract the emotion uh and and re repurpose it? Retract.

Yeah. Restate your motion. I state that we I make a motion that we task the city manager with coming back or instituting a plan to go into effect based on the discussion that we had here using Mr. Griard's recommendation as a foundation. Second. Second. Okay, we have a motion. Second. Any further discussion? I think this is a very Okay, start the vote. I I I I I I see what happens when we work together. So, I think it's a good idea.

No. All right. Um boards and commission, anything for anything for Dr. Johnson? We're going to have the jail board meeting um this Wednesday and and and there are some more things but I need some more time to come back and report that because I want to report some good things that are happening for the city. Okay. Very good. Mr. Kitchen, anything? All right. Um anybody else? Commission. Uh council comments.

Uh yes, I have uh one council comment that is growth. If I may reiterate, growth and development for the city of Franklin is needed for our city. Thank you. Very good. Mr. G, anything? Thank you, Mr. Johnson. I'm I'm going to touch on that. Thursday night, we had a school board meeting and the mayor was not allowed to speak and Mr. Johnson was allowed to bring an entourage up and speak. I just don't see the the fairness in that. That's all I got to say. Thanks.

Okay, so I just wanted to shout out Camp 25. I went to the games on Sunday to support our youth. It was a beautiful moment. On last Tuesday, I was at Franklin Baptist Church for the 150 Voice Choir. The next rehearsal is tomorrow at 7. So, it was very refreshing. It was a beautiful moment. So, there are some good things going on in our community, you know. So, I just hope that people can avail themselves to come out and support these events. Our youth have an amazing time and um I learned how to sing Amazing Grace in a different key. [laughter]

Okay. Uh War Five's neighborhood watch meeting is March 18th at 5:30 p.m. Location Martin Luther King Center. The speaker is uh Miss Gwindelyn Blue, director of Franklin Redevelopment and Housing Authority. Well, uh, I got a couple of things. One, I'd like to say I'd like to this in city manager for the email he sent us really breaking down the, uh, reasoning or the rationale for some of these high utility bills. And with that said, I'd like to uh remind the citizens that Ward 3's ward meeting will be on the 24th of March at the Franklin Library at 5:00 p.m. And uh the guest will be our new city manager along with the um the Zach like you were talking about the power the director of power and lights as well as the finance director who is sitting in in lie of the director of utility billing. So if anybody's welcome to come to this award three meeting and I'm bringing these guests together so that they will be able to ask the questions of the people who are actually are supposed to have the answers how the meters are read when they are read uh the degree of accuracy that they may have and why these people are getting the bills that they're getting. because too many people have heard uh the the phrase I don't know when they have have questions as to why their bill is what it is. People are being told I don't know and that to me is unacceptable. So it is not an opportunity to um jump on these people. These people are coming out of the kindness of their heart and

as a duty to the citizens of our community to answer questions and that is going to be again um the 24th of March and it's going to be a five o'clock at the Franklin Library and predominantly focused on the utility issue and to come up with some ideas and discuss ideas. From what I understand, Mr. uh Saunders is also going to be there to help answer some questions. He won't be one of the guest panel, but he's going to be available also to answer questions. We want to do everything we can to be as transparent with the citizens and come up to solutions to a problems that have existed for years in our community. And together, I think we can work it out. And finally, I just want to say I hope prayers go out to all the people throughout the world who are losing their lives in this war that we have entered into as a nation. Not just our soldiers, but all of the innocent civilian people and those those tens of young ladies between the age of seven and 12 that lost their lives in a school. The Bible says, "Pray for your enemies as well as you do your friends or something like that." I ain't the preacher. Y'all are the preachers. Y'all are preachers. I ain't no preacher, but it say something like that. So, I hope that you will uh uh say a prayer for everybody and thank you so much.

The only thing I have just one more thing off of the utility billing. U remember someone else made the comment that it's four different things included in this billing. Um a few of my constituents have been concerned with their prices as well and their comment is well I use oil heat. You do use oil heat and I understand you got that extra bill, but you also have to remember that it takes the electricity to run the fan to move the air. So that also causes your electrical bill side of that utility to increase. Um other than that, I don't have any comments and thank everybody. I want to um u echo what Miss Bank said about the tomorrow night at 7 o'clock at Franklin Baptist Church as a second uh rehearsal for the 150th anniversary uh choir and it's been there weren't a lot of people there I understand and there was nowhere near 150 is what they were hoping for. Um everybody's invited. If you're not the greatest singer in the world, um if you've ever heard me sing, it might hurt things, but I'm gonna show up. Um just be there and it and be part of this community's activities. This this Saturday from 8 to 2:30 at SP Morton, the annual uh SP Morton spring fling will be going on and uh everybody is invited. And with that, I'll take a motion to adjurnn. I'm sorry,

Mr. Mayor. Yes. One I would like to make one quick statement and this is um no reflection on anyone but I want to clarify something that my colleague u Mr. Kitchens made and that is about speaking at the school board. I was on the agenda. Mr. Mayor was not on the agenda. That's correct. And and and that was clarified. So that's that's what it was. There was no partiality on that. I only said that because when you call my name on something and if I know it's unclear, not right, it's my job to rectify.

I'm fully aware of what I mean no no disrespect to anyone, but that's the way it is. I'm through with it. Thank you. And I'm well aware of what you just said. Next time I won't say your name. Okay. Uh I'll take a motion to adjurnn. So move second. Uh take a vote. I I I Thank you everybody for coming.