Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

to the planning commission meeting for January 21st um for the village of Franklin. Um we'll go ahead and uh do a roll call um starting from the right going left. Paul Bragman present. Quincy Harrison present. Stuart Wers present. Pete Hock present. Sarah Greslick present. Jeremy Warner present.

All welcome everyone. Um and uh welcome to our code enforcer as well as our our village inspector um that are here visiting with us today. So looking forward to hearing from you later. So appreciate appreciate it. Um we will um can we get an adoption of the agenda? Um I would like to Okay. So, he already added the budget to the agenda, so we don't need to make a change to that since we actually have material to cover today. But, uh, any changes to the budget? Nope. Can I get a motion to adopt the agenda? Motion to adopt the agenda as presented. Okay. Second. Anyone?

Second. All right. All in favor? I All right. All right. So, let's uh review minutes from last uh council meeting. Um, I did have a point for meetings minutes from last meeting. Okay. Uh, I am not present in the roll call, but I made plenty of motions. So, if I need to be added to the roll call. Thank you.

Sense of that. I think there was a spelling item. Um, SWAT analysis is SWOT. S WOT T an acronym. I think it's usually all capitalized. Do we have any staff here tonight? We have representation. Well, well, yeah, it's being recorded by [laughter] our village. Um, right. Right. [clears throat] Inspector um as we needed to have at least a staff member um here to be record our minutes. And so, no Evan or administrator? No. Okay. What page is the um is your revision on this vote? My revision.

Yeah. So I think it's on page four. Yeah, it is at the top of the page.

Oh, okay. Okay. Anything any other revisions? There's a few word changes, but I'm not that they didn't change the meeting, so I just word a few things differently, but um for me at least. Um All right. Can I get a motion to accept the minutes as amended? Um by um Motion accept Motion to accept the minutes as amended. Second. All in favor?

I [clears throat] Okay, good. All right. So, review of uh review of budget. So, um we do have a few months of budget to just double check on. Um as you know, our fiscal year ends in um July. So, we were only partway through uh this year's about halfway through halfway through um this year's budget. Um so, uh not a lot of expenses. Um some expenses in not um in November for the public hearing notices. Um, and then December we were pretty heavy on public hearing notices as you remember. Um, wasn't there going to be some investigation about if we can use a different newspaper that save money?

Yes, that's an open question with administrator. That's a good one. You know, when find out that's pretty substantial for Yes. Not a whole lot more. So there are state requirements with regards to distribution but like it has to have a minimum of public distribution but I don't know anyone in our village that receives the newspaper we announce the public hearings in. Right. So it yes might as well be an out of state newspaper.

State law says 300. Our ordinance says a th00 for public hearing notices. We do put it into the Oakland Press web page. So it gets distributed to that which is apparently not allowed because they don't actually print in a newspaper anymore and very most people don't but we do use the Oakland Press for those notifications and they're posted here on this building and I believe they're posted also at the library. Yeah. Right. And those are but the biggest cost is the Oakland breast. And I I'm wondering we had talked about if the eagle was cheaper because it's actually probably more red.

That's something you'd want to discuss with it came up last month. One of the last couple months. Maybe this is when you have when we have to notice the people within a th000 ft that that that price is public to get up there. Yes. But that's usually these these public hearings are for ordinance review um for public hearing. So it was it was it was the general broadcast. But what you're talking about is if we have um that would be zoning a site plan review when there for a particular home and yeah a general ordinance revision or amendment to the ordinance just gets noticed to through the normal processes. Right. A specific site plan gets sent to the division.

Right. Right. So it's not just building related, it's also planning related. Yeah. But yeah, if there is some I mean I guess it would take looking into the language that we're bound by it was the distribution how what does it have to be? I mean it might have said print media at one time. Well, you know, there is an amount in the law that I'm aware of or I believe that allows to advertise a synopsis of what is going to happen. Is that correct? Yes, that's what we do. We don't have to print the whole thing out. We can advertise the synopsis. Yeah, that's what we do. So,

so we're saving some money in that regard, but at the same time, is it a distribution cost um situation? Yeah, we could do some really cool stuff with the funds. [laughter] Yeah. What is that like 1,500? Well, yeah. I mean, just from this fiscal year alone, it's it's 17 almost 1,800 and we're budget 1300 for public no hearing notices. So, um yeah. So, anyway, that's a good point. We'll have we'll we'll have to request a feedback on that for next for next month um to see if they give them a chance um to look into an alternative. Um any other questions about the budget that um you see

only one I have in general um for us with our packet we did we request the general ledger activity report as well? No, we don't normally request it, but at the same time, um I mean it's okay in my mind to to get that as well. It has a little bit more detail as to the line items. It does have more detail with the line items, but it also includes stuff not relevant to um planning. That's why I was wondering.

Well, if it's not I mean, if the numbers total for that time period, the December time period or you're right. Yeah, the numbers don't line up exactly. So, um, we hadn't we didn't make the general we didn't make a request for that much detail. Um, don't typically haven't gotten that much detail, but you're right. If we can remove any extraneous expenses, um, that aren't included. Um, or we can just confirm with the treasur that these are all expenses that we're because it's actually more than just that. It's October with October to December. It's including zoning, historic, uh, other stuff. So, it could also be this is an easier way for her to pull it up. So,

yeah, probably true. But I I I think it's really valuable. I'm not saying it's not val. I'm just saying is it terms there's some extra stuff on there that's not relevant to us. But, uh I think I would like to see this. I think it's interesting and valuable. I agree. Yep. I know that you can look this information up. believe um with the when the council approves um right um budget items or ticket items that they've paid checks on. So you can't it's just this is filtered for us or should be filtered for us at least for the commissions or something but uh G what is general ledger activity? Yeah, correct.

Yeah, it would be a lot I mean this would be a better conversation with the administrator here so we can follow up with with her later.

Not a problem. Okay. Any other budget item review discussion points? Okay. Um we will move on then for planning commission official report. Um so uh unfortunately uh trustee Sally won't be here tonight. Um but I can go ahead and kind of stand in a little bit. the council is working towards um a priority plan for their goals um since they've you know now have another individual in council and they've been talking about it since before he joined um council. So the intent is for them to create um some priorities for the village that they can all align on and then those priorities will be shared with us um and hopefully direct some of the things that we work on as well. Um uh the um other than that I the master plan was not reviewed in the council meeting. Those of you had chance to watch council last Monday, not this last one but the previous um but for this month it was not reviewed because um some of the name changes for um the building businesses that were listed in our master plan have changed since we wrote the master plan. And so there was an expressed interest from those companies to make it current um since we have we it hasn't been set in stone. Um I think Chris did we confirm whether or not just a ledger um like a ledger update on that on those names is all we needed.

Well I I was supposed to hear from Rachel I haven't yet. The only two that I was aware of were um the Oyster Bar and Eye and Sens commons. Okay. And um I've uh made note of those, but I sent an email to Rachel to ask her if there are any others that she was aware of that needed to be changed before I sent it to our art director because the document is in um something that's called in design. So um our art director has to make the changes now.

Okay. Okay. So all right. Well then, um yeah, let me know. I mean it I don't think as far as contentwise I believe that is the only material content change that we're being that's being requested from council from the village administrator to update the master plan right um so if if it doesn't I mean if it doesn't need to come back to us for additional approval then I mean I I think I don't think it does I think though it's just um you know those sort of um typographical type things that need to be taken care of and okay

it doesn't change the content at all. Okay. Right. All right. They have still similar similar purpose for the paragraphs that they're in anyway. Um so all right. And then um th those are the main um uh main things I wanted to bring up. Um and then um so commissioners, are there any any points that you would like to bring up? Um Sarah,

I do um I kind of I took some time over the break um and I sort of revisited a lot of our past meetings, not only in planning, but I think Franklinwide and all of the auxiliary groups and councils and committees we all sit on. And as you guys know, I'm I'm a social worker at heart. So I I really look at things with intention of like are we doing the best by the roles we are in. And um I kind of wanted to share a little bit with that in mind as we look into how we approach things in 2026. Um just as a village and and this is at least my perspective and I hope maybe you agree or I hope that um but I wanted to share a little bit about that. um and just say that looking forward to this year, I want to take a moment to speak on our shared responsibility as public servants and community members, no matter what role we serve in. Whether we engage through governance, volunteer leadership, or showing up as residents and offering public comment, we are all part of the same system and we are all neighbors. The way we engage with one another sets a tone for the civic life throughout our village and reflects who we are as a community as well as the reputation we hold within the larger region in which we live. Our work is strongest when it's grounded in public input guided by the master plan and informed by respectful, thoughtful dialogue. Disagreement is inevitable and necessary. And when approached with curiosity and respect, it helps us understand the full scope of our decisions and make better choices. Public trust grows when we process when processes are clear, roles are respected, and our interactions reflect the values we expect from one another. As public servants, we are responsible not only for outcomes, but for the culture and example we create along the way. Collaboration is not automatic. It requires intention. When we engage in the process together, listening and learning from one another, we gain a deeper appreciation for the time, care,

and expertise each person brings. That mutual respect strengthens relationship and expands what we can achieve for the residents. The diversity of perspectives in our community is an asset. [snorts] Different backgrounds, experiences, and viewpoints help us to be more proactive through the policy we create, more inclusive in our approach, and more thoughtful and kind in how our decisions affect our neighbors. Seeing one another as partners rather than adversaries makes our work stronger. And I speak for myself in that the work I know we've done collaborating with each other and other groups has been the most impactful work I have done on planning. We don't need to dwell on the challenges from the past, but we do have a responsibility to learn from them. Lessons about communication, accountability, and support for one another help our institutions stabilize and grow stronger over time. As we move into this year, it's my hope that we all can commit across all roles to strengthening collaboration, deepening the trust within ourselves and the public. Our work with openness and respect. Doing so will lead to better decisions, stronger relationships, better neighbors, and a village that is well served through those entrusted to lead. I com remain committed to that spirit and supporting all of those governance practices and I think that that will help us be who we aspire to be as a village.

Thank you. Very good. I hear here. Um any any other comments? It's hard to follow that. Yeah. [laughter] Thank you, sir. Um, zoning lay on, do you mind standing in for Linda and give a report on what happened in the last zoning meeting, Bill? Um, do you mind standing? It's It might be easier for them to hear you on the camera. Thanks. Sorry. I don't mind at all.

Um, there are two issues that are up right now. One is uh the most recent zoning board meeting. Actually, it was a sign board of appeals meeting. The sends commons ground sign did not meet the ordinance, so it was denied, which is what I do. Um, it went to at the last historic district commission meeting went there. They uh blessed it. Then it goes to and went to the zoning or assigned board of appeals of which it did get approved by them. uh it met the criteria for having uh extenduating circumstances around where the sign was to go like there was a place to put it. So they did grant that variance. So uh that's the what happened with those two. I attend both of those groups every month or when they have meetings. Anyway, um the other issue that was dealt with by the historic district commission is we had an application for the demolition of a house on Inkster Road 30430, which is on the southern part. Um it's like three lots north of the south boundary line for Franklin.

Went to the historic district commission. They found it had no historic value and recommended its approval. That is now on its way to the village council which will hear this on February the 9th. Okay.

Once that's once they approve it is uh the applicant has met all the standards set forth. Uh they they actually turned in a really nice application for it. Pictures all the appropriate documentation. It's a K J K I Z Y company. Um, they're actually building a house if you drive down Franklin Road just south of Porton. They're building one of those houses there right now. It's a builder in the area and they do really nice work, but he he has supplied the appropriate information. I suspect that the village council should have no issue with it, but that's their decision. Obviously, once that's approved, they're going to move forward. Uh the intent there is to build a new house on that property. Uh there are separate or individual owners of that property. It's not just a builder. So, they will be building a house for the owners. And uh the indication was that it will most likely be of a tutor style or something more of a conservative type, not a contemporary white box window building. So

do you know why it went to the historic de commission? Every demolition by ordinance, every demolition permit where a building is reduced, the square footage the building is reduced by 50% or more over a period of time is required to follow the process. Okay. Do you know what year that house was built that's being done? I don't recall. I don't recall. I think it's one of the 50s ranches. Is that right? It's kind of a There's a couple right in that row there that were one of the are of the 50 ranch. Yeah. Vintage, but it really had no historic value per person.

Right. Okay. How what was the uh what was it height off the ground that you had to vary on your on the sign issue? No, the sign was set back. Oh, yeah. The the ordinance says that a ground sign is required to be 5t from the property line.

Right. And on that property, the actual property line is the building side of the sidewalk. In other words, you can pretty much find out where the property line is because a sidewalk runs right down that line. Well, the you'll if you're familiar with that building, which probably most of you are, you probably drive by it all the time. There's two split rail fences that are in the uh green belt or well, I guess it's a green belt. Uh that's the technical term for it. I think it has wood chunks in it. But either way,

um that whole space is barely three foot wide. So to meet the 5ft set back, the sign would have to be actually put in the first parking space. Okay? So they would lose a parking space. And it the zoning board of appeals felt that I mean it wasn't a self-created issue but it was kind of a hardship for the property and that uh they met the requirements to indicate that uh there was a purpose for the variance. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right.

Um any and now we can open up to public comments. I don't have we don't really have anyone in the public unfortunately. Um, but they are always welcome. Please come to our meetings. Um, all we're not live on YouTube, are we? We are not. No, they're all going to be watching it on YouTube later. So, yes, please come. It's You are live on YouTube. Oh, we are. You and Beth are. Okay. Thank you for confirming. [laughter] Hey. Yay. Um, shout out to [laughter] my mom.

When I'll ask later. When did that change over. Um, okay. So, no public comments. We'll close public comments. Um so now we go to old business. Um uh McKenna um sent us a memo with regards to the request we had of um prioritizing grouping and um um helping us to determine where to start um our nuisance um and blight um oatement ordinances. Um uh Chris, do you mind just giving an overview for

Right. Yeah, I'll um I'm going to direct my comments, focus my comments on pages one and six. Um but basically uh you'll recall at the December meeting, we received a document in which uh five of the uh village trustees had uh noted whether ordinance revisions are warranted to address the nuisances we have been discussing. And um I have revised uh the table from my previous letter by adding two columns. The fifth column in the uh ta table indicates the number of yes votes each nuisance received. Uh nuisances that received four or five yes votes are shaded in yellow. And the sixth column categorizes each nuisance. So, uh, be it safety, environmental, or visual. So, now there's a degree of uncertainty when interpreting the village council's rankings. Uh, for example, when a trustee noted no action was needed, did the trustee mean that he or she was satisfied with the current regulations or did the trustee mean that he or she did not want the particular nuisance addressed in the code? Um, also uh I noted that there apparently was a misunderstanding with respect to dumpsters. Uh, this issue applies only to commercial dumpsters or was meant to, but I believe the village council members may have thought it applied to residential trash recepticles as well. So, in the table when I revised the

table, I added the word commercial uh for clarification. Now rather than go through the whole table and talk about each of the shaded uh elements in the table, I'd like to turn your attention to page six, which uh uh outlines the conclusions. Um based on the information provided in the table, I suggest that the plan commission should focus on the following nuisances. Uh number 16 which is uh the existence of a no longer habitable dwelling and number 17 incomplete construction are uh safety and visual concerns that are related and should be addressed together. So I think um because these are safety issues, I think those are important. Um and those were um uh both ranked u four or five. And so um they're top concerns. Mhm.

Number two, number 15, noxious vegetation and long grass growth is a health issue related to asthma as well as a visual concern. And that was noxious vegetation and long grass growth. It's hard for me to say is um one of the issues that um brought this whole issue of of uh nuisance to the forefront. Then number 22 hazardous material incidents is uh an important one is health is both a health and safety concern. Number six storage of building materials. Number seven, litter. And number eight, accumulation of rubbish or garbage uh should be addressed as a group. They're all related to or similar issues. And um these are all visual concerns that can evolve into health and safety concerns, but uh they start out as visual concerns. Number one, inoperable junk or abandoned motor vehicles. And number two, inoperable recreation vehicles, equipment, and watercraft. Number four, inoperable machinery and equipment should be addressed as a group. They're related. These are visual concerns, but they're also environmental concerns because these sorts of things uh raise concern about leaking oil and other fluids. And they're also safety concerns. [clears throat and cough] And then finally uh number 14 pollution of any lake, stream or well is a health and safe health and environmental concern. And then um so those are all the ones

that um are highlighted in the table are in yellow in the table. Um, then there are two nuisances that I recommend that the village council reconsider because I believe they are of greater importance than initially thought. And number five, dumpsters. I've clarified in the table that this item applies only to commercial districts and Franklin's requirements for dumpster screening are inadequate and are seriously in need of being upgraded. And then number 12, dangerous conditions for children. This is one that Sarah had pointed out in her memo. These are essential nuisance regulations. Um they're found almost in every community's code books. I was sort of dumbfounded when the council didn't highlight this one. Um but um really should be at the top of the list really.

So um those are my uh conclusions and recommendations. Okay, thank you. Um any questions for him before we start discussing um um priorities for these? So is it um I guess I was what is your thought on the uh you know are we looking at um language specific language? Some of these would require understanding the language that we would add for say dumpster screening. Yeah. All of them would require um revisions to the ordinance in order to accomplish what we want to accomplish.

Well, so but many of them do refer to ordinances that exist already that this is covered in these areas. Um are some of them adequate or do they all need to be embellished? They all need to be embellished. Okay.

Yes. Um Sarah, since you've done um a significant amount of leg work on this, um would you feel comfortable proposing um priorities based upon the six to eight um recommendations that McKenna for at least how how you would see us prioritizing these these eight different um option these eight different groups um into highest to lowest priority. Um, we can talk about complexity, whether or not it's an easy change or not an easy change, but at least um first I'd like to at least kind of get an idea of what what um what the work you've done already. Um would you you how you would prioritize it if that's if you feel comfortable sharing.

Yeah. So um this was um done before Chris's um clarification on a couple of those items, but um this is how I think he also interpreted sort of the same [music] document. We both looked at how those five rating systems went and then I also compared um what our village's current standing policies and ordinances are on these items comparing them to um very similarly run or sized um neighborhoods near us. I looked at Bingham Farms, Pleasant Ridge, and Milford and just in um their language of these things. So on um right after Chris's page six um I have my based on those reviewing of all of that um I sort of outlined those high priority items that everyone sort of the council deemed high priority as based as also the things that um I saw that other we have a we can easily just add some like time you know time bound things in there and and make sure that we're just calling out specific things in order to just make sure that these high priority items are addressed. Um, so it is on that next page. I know we looked at like those dangerous conditions we talked about and I think we can also look at that as part of that um um the number 12 that Chris just highlighted as well as the inoperable vehicles and equipment. um hazardous materials, um the habitable dwellings and construction and the accumulation of rubbish and garbage. Those really I think um paired in with some of the safety issues that I know that the um council was looking at and things that we can really address and give a hopefully some meat into those ordinances so that we can make safer

communities. just just as a guideline for this discussion. Um we realistically we could probably only work on two or three ordinances at a time. Um if we're going to give them the due diligence to be thorough, um I wouldn't want to do more than three at a time. Barely two at a at least two at a time. And so if you were to take this list of eight and you were to say which ones should we what should the first two be, what would you what would you recommend? And then we'll open up to discussion. Okay. I actually think that this is a great opportunity to ask in terms of like the call-in and the level of which we're seeing these ordinances. Maybe deal with some of those look at the ones that are in that high priority and ask you know you as the expert here of like what are the ones that um we're seeing a lot of that we can really if we can take two to make a big impact. I think that would be my priority of just being able to say like these are the clear issues that we're currently having. Let's look at those right now.

Okay. Question on the dangerous condition for children. What what did you find on that one that we're we're lacking because that would be maybe we don't even address in our ordinance. So that's seems like an easy win. Yeah. To add it seems like health and safety is more important than grass. I guess grass goes to asthma, but like grass is grass is part of health and safety. Yeah. So, it's like that one's kind of on the edge, but like unsafe buildings versus screening garbage. I think screening garbage is important, but like I would think the health and safety polluting lakes, but there's still several of those. So, Bill, are you seeing or code? Please, not Bill. Um, thank you so much for being here, by the way.

Sure. My pleasure. Could you state your name because if we are live? Sure. I'm Don Voggrren, code enforcement officer. Uh, appreciate your comment, Sarah. Thank you. Um, because it really is a neighborhood. We're neighbors. So, you know, all this stuff we're going to do for black and white code enforcement, I use a softer hand usually. So, we can talk about priorities, but just because we have an ordinance doesn't mean I'm banging on the door day one and saying you've got to get that thing out of there today. So, you know, I try to use, you know, common [clears throat] sense and a softer approach.

But going back to the comment, uh, as far as what we see a lot of is the pods that hang around for a long time. If there's a project that Bill has a permit on, start end date. Yeah, okay, that's explainable. But some are go on for forever. They're just considered to me to my I consider them to be accessory buildings without a permit. And uh but that's not the way the code is written right now. So I'd like to get them Yeah, that's actually not I mean we we don't really have it called out exactly on our list clearly. Um but yeah,

just like a RV, just like a boat, they're trailer, those are pretty clear and I've had really no problem once I call out to somebody they've got to go. Almost always they go. Mhm. So whether they're operable or not to me they're visually the same. So they should really Yes. But uh I guess for my better understanding when you refer to pods in my mind think the moving the moving pods like U-Haul and they put Okay. That that's what I was thinking. Right. So you mean related to construction

usually but in some cases people have used them kind of to move my things out of the house to get them out of my way. I don't want to rent a storage unit someplace so I have it on property. Okay. Yeah, that is bad. And they don't look good. No. You know, for an extended period of time.

Um, so I'd like to see that dealt with as far as the dumpsters. We call them rubbish containers, which is an an old term that doesn't really mean what we want it to mean. Dumpster should be the selected word, I think. and make sure the words indicate you can't have a dumpster if you're not in the commercial district. You can you can still see your trash cans next to your house. I'm not going to suggest we need to police that because a lot of people have their trash cans visible from the road if we want to go there. That's going to be a lot, right? But then a con but a construction dumpster or or anything that used for

which should which falls under also similar they should tie to a project you know and not just I want them for right you know permanent use okay we've got some of that as far as um littering and blight to me I wouldn't put that at the top of the list just because I think littering captures a lot of that and I have dealt with some residents on a littering basis that is for all intents and purposes was blight related.

Uh but going back to the neighborhood concept, there are people that are not necessarily mentally 100%. So I've I've got to again the soft hand the trying to understand their perspective to try to you know get compliance without coming across as a you know tough you got to do it or else um I take it personally to try to get it done without a ticket. I have I do write tickets but I don't you kind of write your own. So um I understood um with with enough warning they end up Yeah. they should be able to take care of

Exactly. So, you know, um those are the two big things right now that I would say if we can get that addressed and then anytime we change it, I think we need to spell out how far back are we going to go and say this pod was there. I can show you pictures. It was there on, you know, this date two years ago. But if the ordinance doesn't spell out how to enforce an item that's been there too long from the past, um

just from uh I don't know if you've looked at other communities or seen other communities how they handle it. Um but is there a set duration that you've seen or heard of from other communities with regards to those type of pods or moving pods like a week, a month? Again, I would tie it to a building permit duration, okay? Or a time period by which somebody's getting ready to move or has just moved in and they're unloading. But the the same thing with your recreational vehicle, you're allowed x amount of hours for the getting it ready and getting it un ready when you get back. Right. Right.

There should be a time frame involved. pods. I think is using as a like Kleenex typical what we see that um I I work with numerous other communities and I just worked with one that just uh made shipping containers a not allowable product in a residential district. [clears throat]

Were they using those for building structure or are they using them for just storage? just storage like said they end up being that for they don't want to buy a shed or they don't want to spend the money for a nice looking building to put their stuff in. Um, actually, Independence Township has one very specific. Um, as recently as a few months ago, I helped Springfield Township give an ordinance that makes those to be in violation of the ordinance. They don't allow none even for moving or um given x amount of period of time to get okay to be two hours or

okay, you know, a week or whatever the case is. But I, you know, is the distinction between a shipping container and a pod uh are did they make that distinction? I guess because you know the shipping containers they they put it in one group. Okay. And they give it x amount of time to be there. Okay. Right. Because I would think here we wouldn't generally we there's no reason to have a shipping container. Well, if you know, it's really funny. Some people, you wouldn't think it, but if you don't spell it out, right? Yeah.

People do it. And then once you get them, how do you get rid of them? Like I'm saying, you know, we've got them that have been out there. The pods have been there. I mean, eventually you got to pay for that pod. So, I'm sure point in time in the future, you're going to want to do something with it, right? But at the same time, if you don't pay for your storage unit, they end up disposing of your of your things anyway. If it's sitting on your property, then we got to come get it. They got to come get it. But I think it' be good to spell it out, be clear what we're talking about, what it means, and and define what the possibilities are. I mean, we charge for building permits,

right? So in this case, we might consider a fee for that pod to sit on your property. So much a month times whatever number of pods. Basically, you know, we could write a ticket, get $150 ticket, $200 ticket. But if you can [clears throat] get there with a fee, that might help police it, too. Okay. What would you say that is the, you know, [clears throat] number of pods we have in the village at any I would say probably 10. Wow, that's Wow, that's more than I thought. I've only seen one. [laughter] I think I have two just in my neighborhood and one I can see from my front yard in someone else's neighbor. So, that's three I can see just within. All right, fair enough. Mhm. [clears throat]

Those don't really fall under any of the categories. I know. So, that's what I was going to ask you. So, um can you um say what the um where did you say you guys did that ordinance for? So, I can look that up. Independence Township. Independence. I want to have ordinances that deal with So we need to bring that to council. Is that something you would Yeah, we I'd bring it to council as as something I mean well council's already mentioned to me um as on the side but not in council meeting to discuss pods. So um but that we could potentially add this to

but we could add it to the I feel I feel safe adding it to the list um and bringing it to them and saying this is one of our this is one of the first priorities we take on. I I don't feel like they would they would have any problem with us focusing on that. It seems like lowhanging fruit for the most part. Um and if and we'll know within by by the next meeting whether or not they reject it as a priority. So um

I I'm okay with that if that's if that it it is that our number one priority though. Um or do we want to also do the um number 12 dangerous conditions for children? Um, and that might take a while. Um, because I think there's gonna be some researching that going along, but that could be we could do those in parallel. Um, what what kind of things are are we talking about? What does that mean? Um, so for example, if you have a swimming pool and that's already covered. Okay. Mhm. We have fencing or you know appropriate cover state everything from um

refrigerators or containers that are left out that um um children can uh get into or to excavations uh to right anything that is uh attractive to children that is dangerous to them because I know that our neighbor that's doing construction and have excavated a significant amount of land out of their and made huge holes. Um they have completely fenced in though not very well but it's there is a fence. Mhm. Um that exists is that's part of building code though I believe.

Yeah. It's not part of the building code but it was something that the fence ordinance did address. The fence we added that says you can't have open excavations without protecting it. Yeah. Um, didn't really define what that means. And I mean, I've kind of taken it upon myself if you got a long-term construction project, fence the property. And you can rent fencing. Yes. And, uh, for shortterm or real quick additions or that type of thing, uh, at least at minimum, a snow fence around that area at least to try to protect from kids.

Right. So right now basis it's going to be regular chain link type fencing which the ordinance still allow. So right now it's only for excavated holes. Yep. We got to have a fence for an excavated hole but not for a work. After the back fill is done and the house has doors and is secured so that it can't just be wandered into. Um I think that meets the intent of what the ordinance meant about excavations and open hole and that type of stuff. But it doesn't it doesn't account for an open houses being framed and is open to the elements. Oh, it's needs to be fenced all such time as they can put doors and locks on it.

All right. So, I mean, we have that protection now. Yeah. Cuz I would say too, I think it's illegal to put a refrigerator out at your trash with a door, right? You have to take the door, right? Where does it say that in our ordinance? I think I don't think it does. I thought it was a state law. I don't think it does in our ordinance. I think

it's lacking in our ordinance. I think maybe the smart thing is that we c we keep this one as a high priority one for us, but we take the time like to look at all of those other pieces of defining that like this may be like one kind of that you said Stuart of that it has to be ongoing that we call it out and maybe find all of those little instances within our ordinances and sort of bundle them all together in like a space to just call it out very clearly because we know that other municipalities do that in a very specific way of like, hey, we're just covering our bases here for them. And maybe that's one we just keep going back to and sort of refining what that looks like based on what we already have and then look at sort of some of those other examples as Chris pointed out that other places do do this. We just aren't doing it in this way and maybe we can sort of beef that up a little bit and just call it out separately. But maybe that one is just like ongoing as we sort of keep looking at it and I'm happy to sort of keeping diving into that. I mean, it seems like we don't want to take the ordinance out of the fencing section and put it into a child protection section. So, it almost might be we might just reference other areas.

Yeah. But like pulling all of those instances so that way we can easily say I think there's something I think is like it's easier if you just say like yes please reference this here than saying than someone having to dig through the ordinances because ours the way they're set up on the online platform isn't as easy to search through as many of the other places that I looked at. Like you really had to know what you were looking for. It's not like as accessible. So I'm would just say like you want it to be easy to find and understand.

I I think the terminology makes it most difficult because we do use American Legal for our codification of the ordinances and up the top of their site if once you get into the Franklin one there's a search thing and I do it all the time. You want to know about a fence? I just type in fence and I mean it's the whole thing is there. So, I mean I if not to discount what you're saying. No, I'm saying like if you don't know if you don't know like if a resident doesn't know how to do that is what I'm saying. Like that's [laughter] that's I'm just saying accessibility wise.

I'm forever explaining people how to use that system and they when they get done they go, "Wow, that's cool." Yeah. Yeah. Um, we're in the process also of uh getting some of the ordinances that hadn't been included correctly into American Legal done right now. There there's a couple that lack, but we're Evan and I are working together to get that straightened out and get that online like it should be because I get calls all the time. People go, "Uh, this is what it says." And I'm going, "Yeah, but that's not the ordinance got passed." So, we're working on that. Okay.

All right. So, just opening it up then. So, what which two will we prioritize and take to council? Um, given this list of the priorities that we looked at, what are the first two we want to work look um work on? I guess it go ahead Paul. No, sorry, Pete. Um, well, it looks like the sound of adding pods is important, I guess, from the understanding of dumpsters as well might be a good addition. And then for the probably the last one being hazardous materials. Okay,

this is my first top three. We have a noxious weed ordinance right now. Yeah, but there's concerns about the um height of weeds and yeah, there's um problems with it. I mean, there's a a lot of people do no mo as well, though. That we have an 8 in requirement. However, there's a number of lots that aren't cut manicured like lawns. So, we're essentially Knox Vegetation needs a review more than a rewrite.

Yeah. And then because I before Don got here, I did some of that enforcement and it gets tricky because yeah, a yard that's manicure cut and all that. Okay, I that's easy. But when you have a house on the edge of a hill that people don't cut it, the natural vegetation grows. Yeah. Right.

And something like that. And for the last the last I don't know since I moved in um pretty much the last nine years the village has been been sending emails and um for a long time it was sending emails about the virtues of a rain garden and how having increased vegetation growth um actually improves uh capture of water for your well and for vegetation in the and and the health of the aquifers that we have um and the pollinators of um in the area. So there's a little bit of contradiction with regards to how we would tackle that. Um, with regards to priorities or interpretation,

I have a question on that too. Just like the manicured, perfectly looking lawn and [clears throat] the chemicals that they dump onto those lawns that seep into the water that we're drinking from the well, which is Yeah. Right. I mean, if we should ban those manicured lawns and all the chemicals and Well, I've been here for 22 years, and when I first got here, the village was very strict about making sure that you didn't fertilize within 50 or 75 ft of the river. Yeah,

they were very protective of that, which made perfect sense. I don't know that there was an ordinance that said you couldn't, but uh they were very active to make sure that that didn't happen, right? Yeah. That's I mean our watershed you know and it wouldn't necessarily have to be everyone in the village but the folks who you can demonstrate have you know drainage paths into the watershed you know I know it didn't get a ton of votes but to me that's a pretty big one and the well issue you know I'm not sure that fertilizer makes its way into the water table actually but um surface water for sure pardon me it does go into surface water for sure

certainly in the ground water, but I don't know that it gets into the aquafer. I mean, we have shallow wells. I know we have 30 foot wells in places, old ones, so who knows what water they're pulling in, but um yeah, I mean I I guess Bill, you're you're like we probably never had an ordinance, but we I don't know. Oh, must have been something that discourage it group that was here for a long time that really promoted not to do that, right? It may be something that you do need an ordinance or something, but the whole village is a water shed to the Rouge River.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, no matter where you go, it's got a numerous different ways to get there because we have a wetlands map that shows exactly how that happens. Yeah. But it all ends up going under Telegraph Road down there. Yeah. Or there's other um Quincy, do you have um your top three priorities you would like to share?

I would think my top three priorities would be to get the ones out of the way that are the easiest. I think these discussion about the children is going to be really tough. I think assuming some of the pollution things could be tough. I think spring is around the corner, might be nice to get grass out of the way. We could get if there's already some great examples for these sheds and pods that could get knocked out of the way. Maybe tie that in with abandoned vehicles. So, we could kind of do a few of those and kind of get those because an abandoned vehicle, an abandoned building, you know, we could work those out and do grass at the same time. But I think we could get just lost in discussion on some of these and just not get springs around the corner. It' be nice to have people have those things done. But

okay, those would be my thoughts. Thank you, Pete. So, um, pod seems like an easy one and something that has come along in recent years. Um, and I guess, um, I think the children one is hard, but I mean, who can oppose it? But it just seems like what will that amount to that we don't already have in there. Um so and I guess my third one is like number 14 says pollution of any lake stream or well and um then we have um one that that specifically 25 says fertilizer. So I guess those are my other two uh that I think are important.

Okay. Thank you Sarah. I think the pods is a good one and then I um I think the construction and the um incomplete construction is a good one to do especially coming up where we know that that's going to come up in the spring with people doing it. Um, I know I can look around many places that construction's been going on and that, you know, same house for years and hasn't moved. And I think maybe we we look at that of what that could look like or what that's supposed to look like or or how can we help our residents really figure that out.

That's true. Can I add to that just for input that construction that has a building permit issued to it then falls under the governance of the building code which is actually a state law. So as long as that building code is active, I think you'll find it pretty hard passive ordinance to make something happen with that. Um, I I agree. Some of these projects take a long time, but some of these projects are complicated. Some of these houses being built in Franklin are equal to any commercial building I've ever seen. So,

my point on it was I know that there are many construction zones where the neighbors are just looking at a porta potty for years because they just haven't finished it. And it's not that they can't live there. It's just that it just keeps going on and on and on. And I think we need to like look at like, okay, what can we do to help like be good neighbors, you know, like what what what are those sort of pieces? That's kind of how I'm looking at. I talk to builders all the time. I can tell you two or three of them right now. I know which one you're probably talking about. The house on Bear Road [laughter] at the corner [clears throat] of

Yeah. That house is for the most part complete except for the owners will not tell the builder what kitchen cabinets they want. And I can't issue a certificate to occupy a house that doesn't have a kitchen. And as long as they continue to make some progress, it doesn't have to be a lot by code, but as long as they continue to show progress, I can't invalidate their permit. Now, if the a project is totally abandoned, like nobody's around, that permit's still active for 180 days. That's 6 months.

And I can't I can't undo it until that time. And then what we end up with is a house that doesn't have a permit on it. And then what do we do with the house? Okay. I I trust me, I encourage these builders to get these things done. And actually the ones I talked to, they would love to get done because they'll get paid and they'll be on their way. So, right, it's a quandry. And I don't disagree with not wanting to look at it. But you take the house on 13 mile. Yeah. [laughter] The seizure. It's a running joke in our 15 years now for that one joke here. Yeah.

However, it's been through multiple phases. We're finally fortunate enough that a that a village resident is actually having it finished, albeit taking forever to get him done, too. But you'd be surprised what's in that house. That house is one of the houses that I was referring to that the is complicated enough to be a commercial building, right? That house has a 25 foot deep basement. Wow. As well as a couple others with basketball courts. and swimming pools, infinity edge swimming pools, and I could go on and on, but it's taken that long to get it done.

So, I empathize with the papers I'd have to look at. I really do. I mean, but they're working on it. Yeah. And Chris, I got a question for you just about um Oh, can can we get Jeremy's priorities real quick? Yeah, sure. Sure, sure. And then we can go Yep. From there. Uh, I think the child one is a sensible one to try to add if there's anything missing. Okay. And so just that's okay. All right. Cool. Okay. So, yeah, my question was just when we when we have a building code or a state code, what is it? The IRC. I'm not sure what our code is. The uh residential building code. Um,

residential. Yeah. The, you know, our ordinances. Can they basically um add on to those like if we wanted to say something? No, you can't supersede the um u Michigan building. Right. Right. So even if we wanted to try to get language to have it change, but good luck, right? Right. I mean, I guess Yeah. I mean, [clears throat] you just That wouldn't be practical. You'll be taken to court and you will lose. So [laughter] you have to go to What body do you have to go to? the Bureau of Construction Code. Right. That's okay. We're not going to pursue that activity. [laughter] Decision. Sorry. Um

shouldn't we vote on it? Well, I mean, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

It sounds like there's more details that we have to figure out right now. Um and we'd have to navigate that more in depth. I'd rather come more prepared to make that decision with more information than discussing it right now and here in this meeting. Um, based on what I understand, um, and that I I I think it'd be comfortable taking to council, um, and from your input as well, I would consider, um, that the pods, um, I'll raise that as one of the options and make that part of, uh, number five from conclusions, which is the including inoperable junk, abandoned motor vehicles, recre number two, recreational vehicles, and number four. I think those lump pretty well together potentially um as being something that's an outur that sits on the outside of the building of a home or structure um and can be it's all going in the same location in the ordinance anyway um since all of these nuisance and and blight ordinances will go into the same section eventually anyway. Um so I think that made sense to me. Um and then um the the noxious vegetation and lawn growth. That one um I think we need some clarity from council, but I think that that could be something we could get at least clarity on, get started with council um um what that means. And then for me um I think number six, the um for number 14, which is six on the conclusions of um pollution, health, environment concerns. Does there anyone have any any uh objections to those three being our final decision or do do we need arm wrestle or what is anything else that we're missing?

I think that's good. I think what I didn't I didn't quite understand you wanted to include pods with number five. Yes. Yeah. Pod five and then but group four and five together. You said no no sorry no it would be conclusion number five would also include oh number four on the is that what you were saying yes okay so yeah so conclusion number five would also include pods okay

and then we would do conclusion number six which is the um pollution of any lakes streams or wells um and then also the number two in preparation of spring with regards to final direction from council on what do we want to do we want to have how do we how do we want to do rain gardens do we do got to do lawn long lawns? How do we how do we give guidance to our our villagers as to what is appropriate and what is not? I mean is the pollution of water is going to go as far as I know the issue of artificial turf has come up before a thing. So like I mean how far is that going to expand into like ashvault driveways could be just as bad like I mean

that's true. I that was that I think that would be very important but it just we would need to have some sort of boundary like do we want to have is that are we talking like within a certain distance of a waterway or within I don't know it just seems like that one could just take forever I guess the uh you know understanding our water quality might be um do we have water quality issues do we have

that's what I'm saying it sounds like you know I know there are people who love to fertilize their lawns you know if they're right to fertilize their lawns and have green grass. Um, you know, boy, I don't see it as being draconian, but I mean, I grew up when, you know, we used to swim in Walnut Lake. It was wonderful. And somewhere in the ' 70s, uh, we got like EC coli outbreaks and, you know, it happened when all these neighborhoods went up. It might also been a sewage pumping station. I don't even know. But trying to understand that a little and then we could decide. Yeah. I just don't know what the issues that we have with water. Yeah, nitrogen. I think huge

I was thinking more fertilizer and how we how what I mean how we're polluting surface water. You could expand it into right anything. So is there another one besides number um six? So I've already got number two from conclusions and number five from conclusions which also includes pods. Is there another one or do you want to sit with those two for right now? mle it over a little bit. Ask council what they think about six. Are there any issues that they're specific issues that they're aware of? Okay. Because they said that that was important. But like I don't know if the issue is turf or is the issue fertilizer or is the issue if the issue septic tanks can raise it what the problem is. I don't know. I agree with you because if the issue is turf, we can literally tell them we already address that over 6 months last year.

Right. Right. Right. So we just need to know what that is. I mean, we looked at something that you could easily say was bordering on minutia. Yeah. Uh PAS is very significant, but everywhere that I'm aware of, it's all around industrial plants. It's like it's not happening in the neighborhoods. Um but I guess you know there's no harm there is some element of because I do believe if you look at the number of votes um you know everyone by and large agreed on that but I guess you would basically be running this by them and seeing you know if they want to guide us in a certain direction. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Yeah.

We could bring up all the items that you had mentioned. I thought that was a good list. Does anyone know what section 148.06 focuses on? Because that's the pollution one. Mhm. I can look it up. It's in the regulatory part of the ordinance. Yeah. Cuz that that might give us some guidance, I guess, on So this would be mostly strengthening that ordinance, right? Yes. So what's the focus of that ordinance? I guess not sure. the deposit. What was the code? What was the uh Oh, it it just says that it was yes in section 1048.06.

1048. Well, the cliff note of it on the row there basically just read how it reads to me is don't dump anything in a direct source of water is how it reads. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in there. I mean, I think Bill, one of you and I have talked about 1048, notification of spills. We're almost there. Suspension of storm water. Storm water management. Yeah. But um something Bill, you and I talked about was the uh discharge of water softening systems.

Yeah. You know, I'd love to understand it better, but we really don't have a good way to discharge our and I think there's widespread, you know, one thing is that the ordinance under the sewer ordinance doesn't allow you to take your water out and discharge it and put it into the system. Right. Right. That's not waste water. Yeah. Salt water. And you're really not It isn't waste water. So, you can't put it in there. And you really can't put it on your lawn. Well, you can't put You don't want to put it into the river. Um, and if you put it on your lawn, it'll probably kill your lawn, but it may not. Actually, mine doesn't, but

Right. Right. Pump there's enough water that gets it gets diluted enough that it doesn't add a problem. Right. I'm not saying that that couldn't happen because it can. Yeah. But water softeners are a real problem because how do you desalinate that water before you throw it outside? Yeah. You know, that's a whole process in and of itself. Yep.

So 1048.06 06 is titled discharge prohibitions, prohibition of illegal discharges and it talks about um discharge and flows from firefighting activities discharges uh let's say die testing um MPDS permits And it does talk about um waterline flushing discharges from portable water sources, landscape irrigation runoff, lawn watering and irrigation waters.

So that could be the fertilizing. Yeah. Runoff. Pool water. Is that in there? Um, car washing. It doesn't say anything about pool water. We do. But decolorinized pool swimming pool. Oh, yeah. It does say decllorinated swimming pool water. I think our ordinance says you have to have a permit for pool discharges, which is not true according to the state. Oh, okay. There's guidance around how to do it safely, but there's not a requirement for a permit as long as the pool's residential commercial. Yeah, you have to have

Well, I mean, it says Yeah, it does say with without a I don't know what NPDES permit authorization is. So, maybe ask council if there's any specific sections or portions of that section that they want us to focus on because I mean that was you said fire, fighting, runoff, and like I mean it's like everything. Yeah, right. That that would be Well, I mean that we just don't want to spin our wheels that way. But yeah, I think that's reasonable. Any any questions or concerns about that? Those three? Those three. Okay, cool. I don't think we need a motion because we're just getting clarification from council.

All right. So, um if you'd like, I'll um summarize that in my letter. Yes, please.

Okay. Um, then we will u the next uh point of business will be uh our upcoming meeting is uh going to be held February 18th, 2026 at 7 p.m. Um I have one uh other piece of business. Um Sure. We usually do an annual report which is required by law. Okay. Would you like me to put that together for the uh Yes, please. Okay. Yes. This is our third year doing it. Uh we [clears throat] I think Sarah did it for a few years before me. Yeah, I think that's right. I've just been here so long. It feels like it's only been a year since Sarah was here. It seemed like we just did one, didn't we?

Well, last year we did one. Yeah, we didn't annual report. Yeah, [laughter] I think we just did this last year. Feels that way with the master plan, too. Didn't we just do [laughter] right? Actually, I think it was summer time. I remember. But you you added the same. That was very important. But I think that was in the summer. Yeah, that was important though. All right. That Yeah. Um, do we need We need a motion to adjurnn. I real quick.

Okay. Can we get our I don't know when I bring this up in our agenda. Can we get our packets printed again like I feel like we went back to virtual and I feel like now we're all just staring at our phones trying to like follow it. So um what I would recommend is if you need want it printed um have uh let let Evan know ahead of time for it to be printed. Okay. I practice and then and then it stopped and I was just like did we he asked us a couple times ago? Maybe I I think one is a cost-saving thing to not I get it. But like I hate that we're all just staring down. It doesn't feel as well. I would be looking at the packet if I had it in front of me. But I I Yeah, I can make

I will ask him at least for me cuz I'm a paper person. If you can't tell, we were we were just talking about we were just saying where are our pockets? Where our packets? like I don't think I like Oh, okay. [cough] [laughter and clears throat] Like, oh, really? I'm sorry. My preferences are not to print them, but that's uh if you want one, then please let Evan know. I like the paper. Can we get a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I. Any oppose? All right. You're staying here if you if you do. Good job, team.