Town Council - Regular Meeting

Did it sign in? Time being 6:00. We call the Franklin Town Council meeting to order. January 21st, 2026. Ask for a moment of silence. Please stand for the pledge of

allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Note note to residents, all citizens are all citizens are welcome to attend meetings in person. To view the live meeting remotely, citizens are encouraged to watch the live stream on Franklin Town Hall TV YouTube channel or live broadcast on Comcast channel 9 and Verizon channel 29. To listen to the meeting remotely, citizens may call in using the number 1-9292056099. To participate in the meeting remotely, citizens may join the Zoom webinar. Meetings are recorded and archived in Franklin TV on Franklin Town Hall TV YouTube channel and shown repeatedly on Comcast channel 9 and Verizon channel 29. The Zoom webinar detail ID ID number is 83768971986. Any participants who wish to speak during the webinar must enter their full name and email address when joining the webinar. All participants will be automatically muted upon joining the webinar. In order to speak, participants will need to select the raise hand function to request to be unmuted. All

speakers will be required to state their full name and street address before commenting. Announcements from the chair. The meeting is being recorded by Franklin TV and shown on Comcast channel 9 and Verizon channel 29. The chair identifies Mike Leblanc is going to try to zoom in, but he is traveling for work and has a meeting at 6. So he he might be Jamie, keep an eye on it. He might be zooming in. Yep. So we're not sure.

Got it. There are no up upcoming town sponsored community events. So, citizens comments, citizens are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes on a matter that is not on the agenda. In compliance with chapter 3A, section 20, the open meeting law, the council cannot engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during citizens comments. The council may ask the town administrator to review the matter. Nothing herein shall prevent the town administrator from correcting a misstatement of fact. Do we have anybody in the audience that is please state your name and the address, please?

Hello, my name is Heather Znowski and I live at 51 Anthony Road in Franklin. I am a 17-year resident and taxpayer of the town of Franklin, the parent of a former um F FHS alumni, and a parent of a current FHS student, a seventh grader at BFCCPS, and I have worked for the Benjamin Franklin Classical Charter Public School for 18 years, and have served as its school leader for the past 12. I am here this evening to follow up on inaccurate information presented to the town council regarding BFCCPS at the December 3rd meeting. BFCCPS has been a public school option for Franklin families for 31 years. During my time, we have worked collaboratively with three superintendent and two town administrators to support public education in Franklin. Given this long history of partnership, it was disappointing that inaccurate information was shared. A town council member asked if there was a cap on the number of students from Franklin that could attend charter schools. And the answer provided was no, there is no cap. Charter school enrollment is capped in the state law and regulation. In districts not in the lowest performing 10% statewide, no more than 9% of net school spending may go to Commonwealth charter schools. While it was stated on December 3rd that there are no enrollment caps on charter schools, there are clear limits. Charter schools cannot enroll an unlimited number of students from Franklin. According to DESIE's fiscal 2026 projections, Franklin is at a 5 7% net school spending, well below the 9% cap. Expansion of BFCCPS has not negatively impacted the Franklin Public Schools. BFCCPS received approval in 2014 to regionalize and serve 14 towns in addition to Franklin. Since then, Franklin enrollment has declined. Prior to regionalization, 422 Franklin

students attended BFCCPS. In 2019 when we moved to 500 financial park to begin expansion 375 students were enrolled at BSCPS. And today although we are at fully enrolled expansion of 900 only 312 students attend from Franklin. 110 fewer than before regionalization and expansion. Charter school reimbursement. District schools are reimbursed for students attending charter schools at the rate of 100% in year 1 of attendance, 60% in year 2, and 40% in year three. As a member of the board of the Massachusetts Charter Public School Association, BFCCPS continues to strongly advocate to the state level for full reimbursement to districts as intended in the statute. While there were more inconsistencies in the answers provided to the town council on December 3rd, I feel like those were the three most important to correct. If the town council or the finance committee would like a more detailed presentation on charter school funding or enrollment, I would be happy to provide that. Please do not hesitate to reach out with any questions. Um, some of you will be attending our capstone presentations next week. We have invited all of you to attend. if you're available to attend, you have an opportunity to see the impact that our students are having on the community around them. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Is there anybody else in the audience? Joe, [snorts] state your name and your address. Joe, [cough and clears throat]

thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Joe Mcan, a lifelong resident of Franklin. reside at 120 Lewis Street here in Franklin. I'm here before you tonight for the two vacant seats that pre that exist right now on the zoning board of appeals on the agenda. You can't talk about that, Joe, because it's it's on the agenda tonight. You can speak then. No, go ahead. You have to wait to speak. You have to wait. Is my application part of your agenda tonight or is the application that's been submitted by the two applicants and by Mr. Helen on your agenda? Mine is not on your agenda.

No, it isn't. But the but the vacancies Yeah. Thank you. The vacancy is Go ahead, J. So you Mr. Chairman. So as I explained to Joe and everybody else, the town charter is clear. The town administrator nominates a member of a border committee. The council ratifies them. It's not an allocart. It's not like five candidates go before you. There's one nomination before you tonight. Mr. McCann's nomination and application are not on the agenda tonight. It is not being considered by the board and cannot be considered by the board. The board, the council cannot amend the resolution tonight, can't change it. It's a yay or nay, up or down vote on the two candidates for ZBA tonight. Thank you.

But he cannot talk about this because it's on the agenda tonight. Right. Correct. He if the and the chair has full discretion to call on any member in the audience or anybody else during that item if they want that item. That's correct. Exactly. That's chair's discretion. You'll have to talk when we we go to that. Fine. I will. I just like to make one statement to back to Mr. Helen. Him and I had a lengthy conversation yesterday. He did not mention any of this yesterday in our conversation. We spoke on the phone a good 45 minutes. I'm going to defer as the chairman has said. You are contradicting 100% what you said to me yesterday on the phone.

I want the public to know that and I'd like the council to know that. Joe, I'll debate it all night if you want. Yeah, that's that's not true. Yes. No, it's not. You know it's not. Why would I say it? Well, we can we can bring this all up. Why would I say it? We can bring this all up. We can bring this all up when it when when the uh not true you [clears throat]

Dave there. Uh Dave Callahan, 30 Plain Street. Um with budget season coming up though, I think it's going to be 355 East Central. I'll be living for a while. Uh here with a school committee update. So um we had our first school committee meeting of the new year uh just a couple of weeks ago. Kicked off a marathon session about like four and a half hours. I'll do my best to kind of recap it within 3 minutes. Uh so first uh we had update from the high school about the program of studies and innovation was really kind of like the key word that night. Um as they're really trying to figure out, you know, what classes can be offered given the financial realities that we all have to kind of live in. Uh folks may know uh we had to cut Latin from like the world language of the high school. Uh but what they're able to what they kind of presented out what they're looking to do is have uh Latin with a legal study and Latin with a medical study for those uh kiddos either that were already kind of in the program and then had to have the the program itself cut or just looking to kind of go on to uh legal field or medical field in college and postgrad. Also with innovation uh so uh for a while now they've been working on a grant. They were able to secure a grant for the innovative career pathways. Uh this is like a state recognized program uh that uh takes kids that are in the pathways we're looking at really in the business sector in healthcare and uh brings them together through classes but also through uh guest presentations with uh entreprene 100h hour capstone project in these fields. So kids are not only kind of learning a great getting a great education within Franklin High School, but also seeing exactly what it is in the career that they're looking to kind of pursue. Uh we had an amazing presentation from the office of teaching and learning. Uh it was a two-parter. The first part talks all about how do we teach our kids in 2025? Uh the systems that we use, the curriculum that we're looking at, and how do we best utilize every tax dollar when we're kind of

coming in uh teaching our kiddos. Uh part two was then what's the results and they showed some amazing MCCAST data that talked about how we compare uh both to ourselves and the past but also in kind of comparable neighborhoods uh in uh towns across the Commonwealth. Cannot do that justice. It was amazing presentation the time I have here. But if you have an opportunity check out the office of teaching and learning presentation is phenomenal. Uh lastly, I'll close. Uh we had some a great update uh talking about the daycare center uh that Franklin Public Schools is looking to kind of roll out. This was talked about when we were doing the big reorganization. We had some uh available space over at ECDC on Pond was formerly Kennedy. Um and Lifelong Learning, Patty Gay and her team have been hard at work to create a daycare center for Franklin teachers. Uh utilizing some of the space that's over there. uh they're looking at this uh to roll out as a netneutral uh just like a lot of lifelong learning where it's self- sustaining so uh not looking at it from a a hit from financial aspect but from a recruitment and retention tool for Franklin teachers it's phenomenal oh my god it's amazing anybody who's had to kind of deal with daycare most recently you know find I mean the the costs are out there but just knowing that you're dropping your kiddo off just right down the street from where you work and the district that is following your schedule so right now a lot of times you kids in daycare, you have to pay over, you know, April break, over summer just to hold a spot. And uh this daycare center is going to it's Franklin Public School, so it's going to be following the Franklin Public School calendar. So just from that like human capital uh aspect is going to pay dividends. And the amazing news is they're looking to launch this this coming fall. Uh so uh they're going to have a bigger update come May and June, but such an exciting opportunity that's still kind of coming from this reorganization that we uh we went through. So, thank you all very much for your time.

Thank you, Dave. Great news there. Uh, [clears throat] anybody else in the uh audience before I go to Zoom? I think my buddy Mark Nelly uh has a comment. Feel super.

Hold on one second. There we go. There we go. Mark, you should be all set. Hello, Mark. Mark, I just listen to Can Can you Can you hear me now? Yes, Mark. Go ahead, M.

Okay, great. Great. Mark Mini Kelly, 31 Longfellow Drive. Good evening, counselors. Tonight, I am out of town, but I have a serious concern to share with you. Three days ago, I was made aware of an email that was sent out to a neighborhoodwide distribution by councelor Grella. The email briefly explains his his intention to sue the Franklin ZBA over its recent approval of the 444 East Central Street project. And Mr. Grella also asks for people to contribute to an account to fund the attorney being used for the lawsuit. In the email, Mr. Grella explains he needs to raise $25,000 by Friday, January 16th, and that quote, "The appeal will be suing the ZBA, but not for any money. the attorney is just suing to have the decision overturned." I understand that councelor Grella has the right to sue the ZBA as a private citizen, but that does not make it right. This action may or may not violate ethics rules. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to violate the spirit of ethics rules. This lawsuit will likely cost our town tens of thousands of dollars to defend. In addition, it will be a huge distraction on multiple fronts for several town officials and departments. It will also likely trigger a countersuit by the developer, adding more cost and distraction to town officials. A sitting member of the town council, in my opinion, should not be challenging the validity and authority of another town board or committee through the use of a lawsuit. The ZBA's decision should be respected by town council members just as town council expects its decisions to be respected by other town officials. Taking this action continues to drive a wedge deeper within our community rather than bringing us

together and healing our division, something we dearly need right now. Councelor Grella should have voluntarily disclosed this action to the public at a town council meeting before tonight. It would have been the right thing to do. What if the lawsuit is successful? The prior ZBA decision is nullified. Then would the new ZBA need to re-examine, deliberate, and vote again on the proposed project? If so, anyone involved with the proposed lawsuit or abuting the project would seem to have a vested interest in approving new ZBA members, raising conflict of interest and ethics questions. Anyone involved in this lawsuit should not be deliberating or voting on the newly proposed uh additions to the ZBA in my opinion as they are tainted by a potential conflict of interest regarding future ZBA decisions. This is yet another reason why I think moving forward with this lawsuit is a bad idea. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thanks, Mark. Uh, is there anybody else out there? So, we're going to move on. Move on from citizens comments. That's actually pretty fast. So, next item on the agenda is approval for minutes January 7th, 20126. Do [clears throat] we have a motion? Motion second. We have a second. Additions, deletions. [snorts] Okay. All in favor? I do. Do we need to go do a roll call because Yeah, because uh here he shows up. He was on Zoom.

Then we have to do [clears throat] that's [snorts] when you get mad at him. But he's not. But he's not on Zoom. No. So, uh opposed. Opposed. Motion pass. We have one proclamation tonight. Uh Scotty Smith. Uh Smith's retirement. Uh we have a proclamation. Smitty, get up there. buddy. [clears throat]

So, Smitty, this is a proclamation from the town of Franklin on your retirement from the Franklin DPW. Whereas Scotty Smith joined the Franklin Department of Public Works on April 19th, 1993 after working at both [clears throat] Bellingham and Medfield DPW, but unfortunately was injured on July 20, 2024 and since then was able unable to return back to work. And whereas therefore after 32 years of dedicated service, he retired on December 31st, 2025. And whereas throughout his 32 years of service, Smitty served as a heavy equipment operator, L3. You got to know what that is, but it's part of your license. So, assigned mostly to the sewer department where he was not afraid to get dirty and was a re reliable and invaluable member of the Franklin Department of Public Works. And whereas during his tenure, he loved to operate all machinery, but definitely took pride in running the sewer vac. If you guys don't know what that is, I know what it is.

It's really [clears throat] not a good place to be. It's not a good thing to operate, and it's definitely not a good thing to work on.

So, I don't have to work on them anymore, thank God. But [clears throat] and so when official sewer evac operation position was created in December 2022, he was the obvious choice to fill it. And whereas when he wasn't operating the back truck, clearing sewer blockages, or performing proactive cleaning of the sewer mains, he could be found testing his welding skills by fabricating parts or needed items over the 23 years in the lift towers. That's a good job, pal. That's good. I wish I had more people like you. And whereas Smitty was a dedicated and valued member of the Franklin Department of Public Work, whose commitment and contribution to the department and the community are greatly appreciated and is he is wished many happy years of retirement. Now therefore, it be it known that Scotty Smitty Smith is hereby commended and recognized by the town council of the town of Franklin for over 32 years of dedicated service with the Franklin Department of Public Works and congratulations on your retirement. It's signed by myself, chairman of the Franklin Town Council. Spinny, enjoy your retirement, brother. [applause]

[applause]

do a picture with him or Yeah. You want to take a recess for five minutes? A recess for a couple minutes. We'll take a picture. Come on up here.

Thanks. Thanks, Scotty. Thanks, Scotty, brother. Thank you. [laughter] [snorts] All right, let's get back to business here. So, we have uh tonight we have appointments. We have two appointments. Zony Board of Appeals. Isabella Carter. We're going to do first. Is she here? Yep. Isabella's here. You want to sit down? Isel, can I just for? Yeah. Just in the seat, Isabelle. Wherever you want. Get comfy. Get comfy. Yeah. All right, Jamie. Why don't you kick it off?

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Through you, of the council. Um, I won't read through the entire memo. I think I already gave my uh my opinion on a variety of matters there, but just for the folks that are watching from home or maybe didn't have a chance to take a look at the memo, uh tonight I'm asking for the council to ratify my nomination appointments of Jennifer Williams and Isabella Carter as at large members of the zoning board of appeals. First on the agenda is Isabella Carter. Um we've included in their her application as well as her resume. Um but just as background as many people as we're getting kicked off with the new year may may be unaware um uh Archie Aso who's a member of the ZBA uh actually resigned on January 7th. So the appointment this evening for Isabella uh is actually the vote tonight is to finish Archie's term uh which ends on June 30th of 2026. in meeting Isabella and talking to her. Uh it's my full intention, just to be clear, that I will uh nominate Isabella again in June to then have a full three-year term basically succeeding Archie's 20 some odd years uh 22 years respectively uh on the ZBA. Um also, as I uh brought to the public's attention back in August and September, uh Mr. uh uh several folks have asked uh Mr. Hunchard's term actually expired uh last June, but as many of you on the council know, and I know people that were interested in 444 may have known, um it jeopardized the hearing in my view of trying to make a change with the chairman of the ZBA in the middle of that hearing. Um for the record, um which I'm sure will come up later, um one of the associates, uh the an associate member of the ZBA could have filled in um if Mr. Hunchard had either resigned or if he was unavailable. Um however due to the two associates were actually one recused

themselves Mr. Halligan because of uh property abut and also uh Megan Whitmore had missed uh more than one of the legally required meetings that you have to for a hearing. So she essentially disqualified herself from participating and I think I uh mentioned that in some of the memo or talked about at the time but neither one of those associates were then eligible to be a voting member of the ZBA um in the middle of that process. So, um I wrote a extensive memo, I've incorporated in this packet, um but with the uh case at 444 being over, um and past the appeal period um past the filing deadline, um that was required under state law, um we do have a bit of a time right now where we can revisit Mr. Hunch's appointment. and I have nominated Jennifer Williams uh who's up here and will be considered later on to fill the rest of that term technically because we're already six seven months into that term. Um so that term will go through uh if ratified uh June 30th of 2028. Um you know obviously we've spoken as a community many many times before about how challenging it is to get members of the community to volunteer for the ZVA. Um, as many people know, Miss Williams did apply last June, uh, July at some point. Um, I was very transparent about that. Um, there were no other applications that were in the queue until I received the one from Isabella Carter, uh, a little later that fall. And I commend her and her bravery and her, uh, expertise for stepping up for this community for a board where it seemingly seems that, um, really nobody seems to want to check off that box. U,, which is heartbreaking and disappointing. Um, and because it actually is a really really great board to be a part of. Um, it's extremely I mean for people like us that are land use geeks, it's a great board to serve on. It's a great board to be a part of. Um, Councelor Deloro is famous for saying many times, you know, we're here

to help Franklin people and the ZBA actually helps Franklin people exponentially more than what I think gets publicized a lot of times uh on social media. Um, with that being said, very quickly, uh, I'd be remiss if I didn't thank, uh, Bruce and Archie for their incredibly long service to this community. Uh, I'm certainly well aware of the critique out there of any member of the zoning board of appeals from past members to Mr. Hunchard, to anybody else, and the crit critique of their decisions. And that's certainly fair for people to be either happy or displeased with the decisions they make. Uh, that being said, uh, Mr. Hunchard and and Archie served uh for 56 years combined on that board. Um that is a long time including Bruce for 34 years of his own time, no pay, no money. [snorts] And what oftent times goes unheard are a lot of the uh day-to-day zoning board meetings where no one usually shows up. It's usually just small variances or uh pool setbacks or shed or something like that um that help Franklin families essentially achieve their dream of what they're doing with their property.

Um and 98 99% of the decisions they make are actually um things to help uh residential homeowners either move to Franklin um or sell their home or uh build their home. All of that, by the way, uh does get baked into our property values and does get baked into tax levy and new growth. Um and so I want to thank Bruce and Archie uh for their uh incredible uh service to the town for the last uh three or four decades. Um so before you tonight first, Mr. Chairman, is the nomination of Miss Carter who's before you and uh thank you very much for allowing me to do the opening remarks and happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Jamie. Well, before we go to the council, um, do you have anything to say, Isabella? [laughter] You like that? Um,

sell yourself a little bit. Put you on the spot. I mean, sure. Your resume is very good. Thank you. Yes. Um, well, so I, um, I find myself wanting to contribute to the community in some way. Um, for the past five or so years, I was volunteering with the Franklin Youth Soccer as a coach, and I've stepped back from that. And so I wanted to do something where I can actually use some of my background, my experience. And I had seen that the zoning board had the opening and seemed like they were almost desperate for a volunteers. [laughter] So um I figured why not why not throw my hat in the ring.

Um yeah, so I have um you all have my resume, but I have over 20 years of experience working as an engineer, structural engineer, um in the building and construction industry. I work have worked and continue to work closely with architects and other consulting engineers and developers, owners, um, uh, construction professionals. Um, and I think I can bring some technical knowledge to this position. Thank you. Um, I'll go to the council. Anyone have any questions?

Uh, sure. Through you, uh, Mr. Sharon. Um, thanks Isabella. Thanks for stepping up to do this. Um, are you sure you want to do this? Um, excuse me. Yeah. I mean, I think your background and your experience and everything is probably a good fit. Um, I guess more broadly, not specific to you, but as the ZBA uh is turning over after so many years with new members, it's not for tonight, but further down the road, I really do think we as a council need to explore adding more members to the CPA. I think the weight of those decisions, the impact of those is is really important. And I think just the way it's structured now, I believe we'd be we'd all benefit by having a few more voices on there. Uh so that's a separate issue for another time. I guess my only question kind of related to zoning and all of I'm sure you followed all of the excitement over the last year or two or three with some of the the larger projects that have gone in. Um, and particularly with respect to 40bs, we just passed a resolution in the last meeting in terms of larger apartment complexes and this council's desire not to um promote those,

I don't think we'll be initiating a lip anytime soon from from this group. But if there were um another hostile 40B that came up on another particular property, are you and I don't want to put you on the spot in terms of how you would decide, but just generally get your thoughts on safe harbor, when that would be used and what your what your thoughts are on that.

Uh yeah, I can't really answer specifically obviously. Um I'd have to see all of the the factors um what's being proposed what types of variances are being requested um how many variances are being or waiverss I should say how many waiverss are being requested um and understand if um if we think it's feasible to invoke safe harbor if it if it makes sense um but I would have to look at it on a case-by case basis

okay again safe harbor meaning that we can use Safe Harbor to refuse a project if we're over 10% of the subsidized housing industry index, which I think we're at 11% now. Maybe that grows as other projects come online. Um, I don't think it's too forward for me to think that a pretty good number of folks in town would favor using Safe Harbor. And again, not to put you on the spot necessarily, but hopefully you know and recognize that that that is a big sentiment across the residents. I'm aware. Thank you.

Um, [clears throat] just to, you know, to follow up on on on something uh council Maloney touched on, you know, I I I think your resume is fantastic. I [clears throat] think uh you you've been absolutely an asset to the ZBA. I uh commend you for you volunteering your time and and and uh and taking part of it. Um, more broadly on the topic of the ZBA for for for this committee, I know um there's there's been some discussion about the number of of people on on that committee. Three is tough,

you know, and just want you to be aware of it. Three is tough because we can't meet as a what is it? Uh it's a quorum once you have two people because it it violates open meeting laws which means it's going to be very it's going to be difficult. I just want you to be aware of this. um it's going to be difficult to have conversations uh discussions about the topics that you're covering with the other members of the committee, you know. So, until and you know until such time as we're able to expand

um the ZBA, which frankly would take a change in their charter, which is a much broader process. Um you know, you'll have to recognize that that's that's a limitation that you're going to be working with. Um I I don't know if it's possible for us to use the non- voting members as as a sounding board or maybe there's some some other way. It's perhaps something we can we can discuss at some other time, but just wanted to make sure that that's something you are aware of. I as as I've as I said before, I think you you'd be an excellent addition. Just want you to go in with your eyes wide open. Absolutely. Thank you.

Um so first of all, thank you so much for throwing your name in the hat. As you said, there were um many calls for applications for this and um in October we had none and um other than Miss Williams who was still on a board or was just um moving off of a board. Um and thank you also for your like long history of volunteerism in this town. I know my kids have benefited from your soccer coaching skills. Um and uh your resume is incredible. I think it is a really good fit for the CBA. Um I just wanted to know if you wanted to elaborate on kind of your experience of working within and understanding design constraints and um different things like that might come up as you know as a part of the role on the CBA.

Yeah. So um my primarily work with um building construction and so frequently uh new buildings or existing buildings have limitations whether it's a property line limitation or there might be um a flood elevation to work around um or maybe the owners have some needs where uh they need I'm going to throw out some examples about specific buildings. uh they need a certain clearance uh for their ceilings and but then the the zoning regulations don't allow the building to be taller than x number of feet. And so we have to work within those um limitations and and try to find a balance, try to find the the best solution that works for everybody. Um we I always work in a with a team. It's it's never just me. I'm a consultant. Um, and so I work with again other design professionals, other consultants, and we look at who needs to um, snake some mechanical equipment through that structure. Um, another project I'm currently working on, there's a fire road that snakes around the building, and so we have to make sure that the building overhang doesn't impede on that space so that trucks can get through there. Um and so we're always dis discussing things openly, communicating and trying to find the best balance amongst all of the parties and all of the stakeholders.

Thank you. I think um you know in the first line of your resume saying successfully managed and completed several new construction renovation projects from inception through completion and the example you just gave speaks um incredibly well to your um to your fitness on this role. And I know that as a council, our job tonight is um to ratify or not not ratify based on the fitness and merit of the applicants and um I think you would be an incredible incredible asset to the CPA. So I just um wanted to thank you again for volunteering. Thank you. Sure. Since we're [clears throat] on the line, just go right down.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Isabella. So so nice to see you. For anybody that doesn't know, Isabella and I are neighbors, so I might be a little bit biased as to how great she is, but

No, she's she's one of the good ones. She's one of the good ones. Her and her husband and kids are a wonderful addition to our neighborhood. Um, and your resume is impressive, and I think um more of a comment than a question to you, but that there's going to have to be some thick skin here with this job, right? because you're coming in at a contentious time. You're filling in for, you know, people that have been there a really long time. So, you got to kind of make your own spot. But you're going to have to weigh what you know is right and and legal and by the book versus what maybe the community wants and advocates to you for. And that's a balancing act, right? And that's going to be I think that's probably the toughest thing you you and anyone on the ZBA has going forward is how can you communicate to the residents your intentions what and still have them feel heard right

and maybe there's some compromise sometimes I think many of our committees in the past have just kind of said well I know this to be right and we're just going to do it and the community kind of feels sometimes left out and uh particularly on the big projects uh that require a huge number of variances sometimes, right? So, um I wish you all the luck in the world. I know you have the uh the spirit and the patience to be able to do this. Um and I wish you all the luck and thank you very much for stepping up to to do this uh this tough role, Isabelle. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much for stepping up to the plate. It means a lot to have, you know, it's it's, you know, it's more thankless than the town council in some ways, more generally. Um, I had a question for actually for Jamie and then I had a question for you as well. Um, um, Mr. Helen, um, out of the applicant pool, um, do you believe that the candidates before us tonight are the most qualified? And if so, why do you think they're the most qualified?

Yeah, it's a great question. I do think they're the most qualified. I think both candidates candidates tonight are extremely qualified. Um, one I do um I do value the fact that during a tumultuous time these two folks said we're going to step up to the plate. Um, if somebody steps up 6 months from now, that's wonderful. Like I'm not, you know, saying that that's any more worse. But I think, um, with everything that was going on in town in that year, both of the folks that are up tonight said we'll we'll put our hat in the ring and we're happy to do this. I think to councelor Cormier Ledger's point um you know the thick skin element I think both Miss Carter and Miss Williams absolutely have thick skin they're very bright they're very intelligent um they both have technical experience in this area right obviously by the rums but um frequently I say I don't really believe in résumés I think if people want to volunteer their community they should have an opportunity to do that um in this case it's probably one of the couple boards maybe the only board that you know the wrong person getting on the board can really hurt themselves, right? There's a lot of legal issues that go around with this stuff. And so having people that have knowledge, have technical experience, can read plans um like Isabella can um and discuss issues with um architects, interior designers, you know, construction supervisors and be able to talk that language during the board meetings when it gets into incredible detail. Uh most people um found the deliberations at 4:44 after the hearing were closed like paint drying, right? Many people said they were boring. They were nine hours long. I couldn't get through them because that's the zoning board of appeals. You have to want to learn that stuff, know that stuff, and work with that stuff. Um also, they're both people who are thoughtful. They're both people who have committed to listening, having meetings in person. Um I think the issues that we've heard about the ZBA are really about restoring trust and respect. Um,

and I think both of these candidates uh will go a long way in achieving that. So I think they are the most qualified uh folks that are on the ballot and um obviously that's why I nominated. Thank you. And I I guess you know to your point about the legal issues and um sort of building trust. One of the uh questions or comments that I've received via email was regarding recusal and um in terms of viewer were pointed to the ZBA do you is there um any instances where you would have to expect to recuse yourself um and and how walk me through how you would identify when recusal is necessary?

Sure. Um, so I work in consulting and uh the firm that I'm currently working on working for does have some um residential projects in in house. If we if any of those projects or any other projects that aren't residential, but if they happen to be located in Franklin and they needed to go through the ZBA, I would definitely recuse myself. Thank you very much. Okay, that's all I have. Thank you, Jane.

Um, first, thank you for stepping up. It's so nice to see new faces. Um, I your resume literally is very impressive and it really did blow me away. I have really one actual question. Um, on the form in your narrative section, you said you have about four hours per week available. Now, typically, if it's just regular everyday stuff, that's going to be fine. But when you have something that's massive going on, it could demand a lot more than four hours a week. Are you going to be able to do that? The goal is not to have Zoom meetings on a regular but inerson meetings.

Yep. No, I I would be able to make the time for that. Um I like I said, I've stepped back from my other volunteer experience. So, um I have two young kids, but um when these things come up, I I can make the commitment. Okay. Thank you. That was it.

Um thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh thank you for stepping up and and taking the time and meet with us and also to volunteer your time. Really appreciate that. As everyone has said, your resume is excellent. um really appreciate having new people come on board um people who are smart and look through the law who uh deliberate um and so your qualifications are excellent. Um I agree with what other town council says about the increasing the size of the ZBA. I think that's you know that's necessary mostly just so that um there can be meetings um one-on- ones outside of it especially if you're training a new ZBA member. Um but um no, I think that uh I really don't have much more to say than that. That's really um thanks again for for stepping up for this.

You're welcome. Okay. Uh well, Jane kind of took my question. I was just wondering if you about the commitment, you know, as long as because it it can be a big commitment. So I I know I was coaching when I got on and I ended up leaving after a couple years. But um no um no your resume is is outstanding. Um and I think you'll be a great addition to the uh VBA. So um well any further I think I the community can talk. Go ahead. [clears throat] I was [snorts] going to go into it.

Hello everybody. My name is Joe Halligan. One new drive presently on the ZBA as an associate. This came across me really quick last minute here and uh I I wanted to speak before both candidates were voted in so no one feels like I'm trying to steal someone else's position. Uh we all seem to have the same experience. I was on the board uh planning board for 14 years was on the master plan committee for almost two years in zoning and I also uh am on the ZBA and altered now for about a year and eight months. I feel and this is my opinion that being that long and that much experience in the town that I could have possibly had the opportunity to step up a little bit. Similar to Mr. Daco, Mr. Comeier, you were down here, you slid up, you put your time in, and you get that position. Uh, I don't want to say it was hurtful, but I again, it snuck up on me real quickly. Uh, I have that experience. I have the boots on the ground. I've gone through every permitting process the town of Franklin has ever had. So I understand it thoroughly. I can say other than the new members that are on the council, I I would bet a dinner to anybody in 20 years of service to the miss to the town of Franklin, I have never missed a meeting in almost 20 years of service to the town. I am dedicated. I'm available seven days a week, 24 hours a day. My place of business is a quarter mile up the street. I'm approachable. I can be here to sign documents. I just felt as though putting that much time in, I could get a little bit of a respect to possibly move into a full-time position. The reason why I want to talk right now is because I don't want to think them to think I'm trying to steal one of theirs. There's plenty of opportunity.

I would beg the council to possibly take this under advisement tonight. We do have myself and another alternate in place and Janelle who's the full-time member who can carry on one more meeting tomorrow night if the board would possibly consider extending this because according to Jamie earlier tonight, you can't vote me in as a full-time member tonight anyway. And I understand that. But I have done my time. I I I've done everything for the community. I look at it as the glass is half full. People come in. I want to have fill that glass for them. I'm always for the community. I was never really involved in anything that affected the town. I have no lawsuits against me, no litigation against me. I have no family members on other boards in the town. That could be a conflict. It sounds like we're all in the same business. Architect, architect, building, they have things going on in town. Yes, that's going to come up. So do I. We're all in the same boat. I I just feel as though I'm not a I'm not saying I'm a better candidate, but at least there's two positions open. Maybe I could grab that one. It would be great to have another person put on. Uh I don't know how to explain it any better than uh I've I've done my best to work up the line. I love my community. I'm 67 years old. I'm ready to retire. It'd be nice to see a senior on one of these boards. It seems like they're not getting on any boards lately. I I really respect the fact of uh new blood on the ZBA is great, but it'd be nice to have maybe an old school Franklin guy on that board so that some there's some conversation. It doesn't all go the new way. It doesn't go the old way. And as one of the me uh council has said, it's a threeman board.

Mhm.

If Joe Hagan wanted to pass something, it doesn't pass without two other members. There's no one individual on that board that could sway the a vote. You have to have all three, just like you said. And I I would I would love to be part of this uh the ZBA. Uh I don't know more to tell you. I know I know there's a lot of rumors going on around there and Joe's this, Joe's that. And I'd like one second to bring something up. And this is not in my nature, but I'm starting to learn why behind closed doors those words and those things might being said about me that could possibly sway a vote on boards or possibly even [clears throat] tonight. So there's a forum hot topics in Franklin. And again, I never mention anybody anybody by names. I'm not a backstabber. I don't put anybody down. But when you push a dog in a corner, he's going to bark. And this really irritated me that came across yesterday on hot topics. There is a woman, Diana Diana Barsley, who was concerned about me being on the board because I'm a property owner and wanted to know if there was a conflict. And this is what really disturbs me. We have an individual who was a 20 year uh person on the conservation supposedly a wellrespected Franklin guy respected around the community made great decisions and people respected him on the conservation and his name is Jeff Livingstone. Again I never mention names. Quote Diana Barsley. Yes, it's a massive conflict. This post is clearly written by a psychopath. It's why Joe Halion wasn't voted in two elections ago. This is the same guy who tried to put a hootas in the downtown Franklin. Also doing backdoor handed deals. I wouldn't blame you for not putting me on a board ever again. Social media, I understand what Jamie goes through now. I didn't realize how bad this can get.

This can be damaging to people's careers. I can survive this, but this isn't correct. I I and again I really appreciate the thought if it could be extended maybe to another meeting and possibly consider me as a candidate on the board where I'm already an alternate and if there's any questions I'd be willing to take them from the from the board. Thanks Joe. Is there anybody else? Yep. Joe just state your name and address.

Good evening Mr. Chairman, members of the council. Um Joe Evans, 510 Tamosana Road in Franklin. Uh thank you for the opportunity to speak a little bit on this. Um I I' I've been following the land use issues with the with the council and and the ZBA and the planning board for a number of years. And uh I have a I just have a few questions as to how this played out. Um as Joe Haligan mentioned, um there are two alternates, Joe being one of them and Megan being the Megan Whitmore being the other one. I I'm trying to get some clarity and maybe Jamie through through you, Mr. Chairman, Jamie could answer how

how the this process played out that uh Joe and Megan weren't sort offered uh the opportunity at least to be appointed and whether or not I I'm a little confused as to how that worked. If you could explain that, Jamie.

I'd love to clarify it, Joe. So, um you know, this has been a long couple of years. Um, I already explained a little bit before. I think uh in the case of Megan, uh, when Janelle was elevated last year, I did talk to her and about why she didn't get elevated from an associate at the time. Megan's been on the board for almost a decade. And I simply said to Megan, and I'm being very transparent. Her and I are very good friends. We had a very good conversation, very cordial, and I just said, Megan, you know, I need you to participate a little bit more. I need you to be more vocal. Um she's had some attendance issues in the past. Um there was at one point for a while maybe she was confused about her obligation like if she wasn't needed in as an associate she wouldn't show up. But nonetheless um she did have some attendance issues for some years. We did talk about it last year. I told her I would always consider elevating her to an atlarge member if that got if that improved. She obliged. She understood. Um and then came this year um with uh the 444 project and number one she missed I think three of the first four or four of the first five or so meetings from March, April, May. She did attend one but he immediately disqualified herself after she missed the second meeting. Um that's disappointing to me. Um I do want to make sure everybody's aware. I did talk to Megan last week. We had a great conversation. I do understand the reason why she was not there were for personal reasons that are completely legitimate that any one of us would have had to have maybe missed meetings. That's fair. But I just encourage her if those personal reasons come up again, please call me, call the building commissioner, talk to the chairman because on such a consequential project like this, especially as it evolved, you know, we could have really used that voice in that vote. Um, and I already explained, you know, and I did say to her, um, one thing I do want to clarify for some of the board members and just for the

public, um, you know, Chair Hunchard, and I expect this to be the case with any of the new ZBA members, has always been inclusive of all of the voices on the ZBA. So, while there are three voting members, there are five. Mr. Haligan and Miss Whitmore have always and even the previous associates before that, uh, Mr. Hunchard has always asked them if they have any questions, any comments during any ZBA meeting. Um, but on such a consequential project, they thought that was disappointing and um and and wanted to just at least make sure that there was a new member that had the time commitment that could make sure that they were there. And and regarding Mr. Hallan, point blank, uh, he should be hurt. He should be. Um, Joe knows how I feel about him and I know how Joe feels about me. Um, but the reality is is he did have to recuse himself from 444 as I just mentioned a minute ago. Number two, um, he does have potentially a lot of additional recusals through the community. Um, and finally, um, the public sentiment in the last year, year and a half is saying we want fresh faces. We want some new perspective. We want some additional members that haven't maybe been around for 10, 20, 30, 40 years. That's not a disrespect to any candidate that applies for the ZBA that has been there. Mr. Halligan knows like last year or the year before, I nominated him at a pretty unpopular time to be an associate member when there was a vacancy. He applied. He knows how I feel about him. I have the utmost respect for Joe. He's one of the most knowledgeable people in this community of our zoning code, our bylaws, of building and construction, just like everybody else. But in my opinion, now as the nominating authority, now is not the right time and this is not what the community is seeking. I understand a few people may be seeking that and that's okay. That

that's completely okay to have different opinions on this issue, but um people say a lot of times we don't listen or the council doesn't listen or the staff doesn't listen or I don't listen. Uh I reject that wholeheartedly. I listen a lot. You know that, Joe. Both of you Joe's know that. Um, I call everybody back, email everybody back myself. I meet with people, talk to people. I get views from seniors, veterans, young kids, parents, people who just moved here last year, people who have lived here their whole lives. [clears throat] Every single demographic in this town at some point or another comes to me with their opinions. And it's in my judgment right now that given the quote unquote trust issues with the zoning board of appeals for whatever that is defined and I'm not even so sure I fully agree with it myself. But I want to show the public and show the folks that were upset that I'm listening to them and saying we need to restore some level of credibility and trust in the zoning board of appeals to try to have respect, proper demeanor and try to have thoughtful people who are fair, who are making decisions and also people who will try to educate the public on the facts, you know, like the cell phone tower up on the VFW or a myriad of projects. We need candidates like Isabella and Jen and Janelle last year and also Joe as an associate. I think Joe and Megan can still be fully participating individuals who can be helpful to the board with their expertise. But the bottom line is is I hope all of you on the council also see this too because I know you heard about it on the campaign trail all the time. There needs to be some sort of change at the zoning board of appeals. And in my estimation, there's a supermajority, if not a large majority of this community wants to see some new faces and some new perspectives on the zoning board. And

that's why I nominated Isabella and Jen. And that's simply why I didn't think right now was the time to put Mr. Hallagan forward given the fact that he owns a lot of property in town. There will be recusals at some point and given the past history of different projects in town, I just don't think that's the right time to begin restoring the trust for the zoning board of appeals. I hope that clarifies things. Joe noted. Thank you, Jamie. Um, I also have some questions, Mr. Chairman. Um, specifically, not not for Miss Carter, but for Miss Williams. And I don't know, I think it would probably be fair to have I think right now the vote the decision is on Miss Carter first. Thank you. We're not doing Yeah, we're not. You can come up again. That's all right.

Glen, [clears throat]

thank you. Glenn Jones, uh, 172 School Street. I think as a both as a former counselor and the chairman the former chairman of the master plan um I can attest to Joe's knowledge specifically when it comes to land use and zoning he was on the six member board that helped craft the master plan uh he spent countless countless years on the planning board uh and he has had you know so much institutional knowledge uh that could be helpful to the zoning board of appeals and I do have to agree with Joe and Then typically what we would do as a as a sitting council is agree that if we have individuals who have worked their way up through the ranks over the years, it's always best to promote from within. It's just it's it's it's it's only common sense because in order to keep morale, in order to keep the institutional uh knowledge and workings, um that there could be a long-term detrimental effect to having new people fill in in some very important roles. And I'm not understating anything that Mrs. Carter has with her abilities. I'm sure she's a very bright woman and she could do a very very good job just as M just as Miss Williams could as well. Miss Williams, who also served on the master plan. Just a little bit of history, also on land use and zoning, made huge contributions uh in part also with the master plan. So, you've you've got some really tough decisions to make in front of you. It's just what we have to really stop and think about here is who's the best choice to fill these roles. Um I've I can attest for Joe's long long time history helping out the community. He contributes in many ways. Uh as does Jen. I'm not too familiar with Isabelle. I'm sure she does great, you know, with the soccer. I coached soccer when my kids were little. It's kind of part of the how I got invol into

volunteering. But um I don't necessarily agree with Jamie when it comes to this. That's just my two cents. I think as not to steal Steve's comments about two cents, but uh you have a tough choice to make on this one, folks. Thank you, Glenn. Um, anybody else? Anybody in Zoom land? No. Nobody in Zoom land. All right. So, we didn't add Council Blank, right? [clears throat] Huh? Council of Blank. He didn't join. No, he didn't dial it. No, he didn't. I I don't see

I don't see him. He was going to text me if he did, but I I haven't seen him. So clerk will read the appointment. So we're going to read each appointment separately, Mr. Chairman. Correct.

So this is for an appointment for the zoning board of appeals. The town administrator has appointed the following individual to serve on the zoning board of appeals with term to become effective January 21st, 2026 and to expire as stated below. Isabella Carter of 407 Oakland Parkway in Franklin. term to expire June 30th, 2026. The motion is to ratify the appointment by the town administrator of this individual named above to serve on the zoning board of appeals for the term to become effective January 21st, 2026 and to expire as stated above.

We've heard the appointment. Do I have a motion and a second? Second. All in favor? I I opposed motion guys. Welcome aboard. [applause]

Okay, Jennifer Williams, you're up. Thank you. Good evening, counselors. Uh Jamie, do you want to lead in?

Sure. Um, no. I think I've said enough. I think my point is very clear. I think that um, you know, I think the only other thing I would add is, you know, I I um, uh, M. Williams obviously served on the planning board for a full term. Like Mr. Halligan was on the master plan committee, like Miss Lang was on the master plan committee. Um, you know, and I'll let her speak for herself, but other than that, I don't have much else to add. certainly available to ask ask answer questions. All right. So, same thing. We'll go to you.

Okay. Um I uh wanted to be on the planning board six years ago, I think, is because I care [clears throat] deeply for this town, the future of this town. Brought my family here to raise them here and felt I had a skill set to offer. Um I'm a licensed [clears throat] architect. I am a principal at one of the largest architecture firms in the world, but um never would have a project here in Franklin where I'd have to my firm doesn't work here, right? I work in the city. We do work all over uh the country, but not here in Franklin. And I felt that um I was deeply invested in where this town was going and had technical expertise and ability to to offer um certainly on the planning board and that also certainly translate to the zoning board. There are a lot of uh technicalities, legalities, understanding of process and uh permitting and regulatory agencies and technical terminology and how to read plans and sections and understanding bylaws and waiverss and and everything that everyone has talked about tonight that um I felt like I could have a a positive impact on the future of the town of Franklin by volunteering my time this way. Um, I started as an associate member on planning board because there was an opening and I was overwhelmingly voted in for a full term uh in 2021 2021 um in a very almost similar circumstance. I think the town was looking for I think some new uh fresh perspective and um was a a new member uh replacing others that had been on for quite a long time. And

during my tenure as a planning board member um I can't probably count on one hand and you know number of meetings that I miss. I was super engaged, a a really uh strong participant, active participant. Um as as people have said, I volunteered as the elected member um or represented on the master plan committee, was on the land use and zoning subcommittee to to further um be able to contribute uh thought and collaborate, which I think is super important, with other folks in the town on, you know, council members and the ZVA and you name it. in order to to work together to um understand each other. And ultimately this is all because I felt it was really important to represent uh what the residents uh were looking for with the um in a way that you know you care deeply but you you listen to them and you have to weigh all the pros and cons. But you are always trying to make the best decision that you have with the information that you have in your hand at that moment. um given to you by you know it could be months at a time, it can be hours in a night, right? But it's really important to go through the whole p process and understand the process and be there uh as an active member and do the best you can to represent the town in that case an elected position. I loved it. I coach field hockey on my daughter on Monday nights and I also have a monthly leadership meeting at my firm uh once a month on Monday nights. And so Monday nights just weren't going to work for me moving forward. And I knew my term was expiring in November. And so I also knew there were going to be vacancies in the zoning board, which is a different night of the week. Um, and so I applied for the zoning board. I actually think it

might have been before June. I think it was in the spring. um because I really wanted to continue to contribute to the town and has a have a positive impact um and represent the residents of Franklin um and and do my best uh in every individual case and scenario to make a decision, an informed decision, uh like I said, with the information that we have um across the board from applicants, from professionals, um from peer reviews, from town officials, um because every circumstance, every case whether big or small is important to individuals or entire communities and it's I always felt um it's a really important serious job that um matters to to impact like I said the future of the town. So, I would be honored to continue to serve the town in the role of the ZBA um on a night of the week that I know I can 100% be there and and engaged and um and and be an active member of the community because I like to give back and and offer, you know, what I can and my expertise wherever um I think it might be beneficial to the residents.

You good? Good. All right, we'll do the same. Council Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, thank you, Jennifer, for stepping forward. Um, kind of the same question. You know what you're up against, right? You know, this is the ZBA, right? Okay. Um, and similar question to what I mentioned to Isabella before, just in terms, I'm sure you've been following all of the goings on over the last uh year or two. Um, and with respect to safe harbor and first of all, you know, knowing what that is and just your thoughts on being open to use that since we're over the 10%. Sure. subsidized housing index.

I mean, I I do no matter what and anybody on any board, every case is an individual case. Yes. I also understand there clearly is desire in this town to have smart strategic growth and so um you know there may be circumstances where certainly that's warranted it you know I I wouldn't know or the board wouldn't know until the circumstances are presented in front of them but I am aware that that is a possibility moving forward and you'd entertain considering that just considering the totality of what was going on the circle of the project and all the other variables, right? Yeah, there's a lot to consider in every circumstance.

Yeah. Well, thank you and thank you again for stepping forward and looking to help. Thanks. Uh I don't want to take a lot of time. I I I I've seen your resume. I think it's fantastic. I you know, you heard my earlier comment. I got nothing to add.

Okay. Um well, so I'm going to say thank you again. I mean, your again volunteerism in this town is incredible and we are very grateful for um everything that you have and continue to do for the town. Um I was going to ask about how your um experience on the planning board relates to this, but I feel like you just answered that. Um so I think you did a really good job of again explaining your um fitness and qualifications and merit, which is what we are voting on. Um my one question I guess would be um especially on the ZBA where it is such a small group of um voting members, you know, how comfortable are you in voting or speaking up for what you believe to be the correct the right answer even if you know it is possibly not the popular or the um not not the way the the rest of the the group is flowing. So, I'm just curious how you feel about that because that is, you know, so critical, especially with such a small group.

Uh, great question. And I think, uh, maybe similar to most EVA meetings where nobody shows up, I have a proven track record on the planning board of often being the one person or one or two people who deviate from maybe the popular opinion because I approach every um, uh, thing that's in front of us with impartiality, if I said that correctly. Um, I'm here again to make decisions with information I have in front of me in the best interest of the town and hearing the residents at every meeting and doing as much as possible to make sure that their concerns um are addressed and uh ultimately voting um considering all these factors uh without certainly without any inside outside influence even from fellow board members um necessarily. And I again I think my track record shows that um there are some pretty big projects that I voted down that others voted yes and for some reason it you know move forward for various other reasons the state or you know uh not needing a a supermajority vote or you name it but I held my ground and and you know voted for or against something in any event. And so I hope that people understand that or seen that or have seen that in the past and realize that that I will continue to perform in that way on the CBA.

I appreciate that. I think integrity is critical. Um, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Jen. It's great to see you and uh certainly no stranger to the community. You and your husband and your family are out and about at everything. Uh, and that's I think a true testament to you and how much you love Franklin. Um, we received a lot of emails today starting at about 8:00 a.m. Probably 30 if I had to count and 27 of them were in favor of you. I was like

being being support just just for the public records about but you know don't want anybody quote me on the math but it was about 27 uh supporting you uh in this role. Some of the concerns raised though um had to do with your husband and his role as a volunteer on another committee. Mhm. So, can you just speak to how you would handle that potential conflict if Sam was involved with something with signage that had to come before you? Because I think that will ease some of the community concerns.

Sure. Um I think Oh, yeah. My husband's on the design review commission. He's also an architect. Um design review commission's a recommending board, not a voting board. So there wouldn't be an instance where there's like a vote influencing a vote. Um I think if um I guess I would need clarification, but I I I don't know if I'd have to recuse myself in that

through you. Um design review committee is a recommending body only. They have no permitting authority on anything. The only thing design review does is review signs, which is important. And I don't want to say the only thing, but um they review signs um and they make recommendations to the planning board and that's it. So I unless there's a personal recusal from a project within the company they own or he owns or she's a part of like a traditional recusal of all of you. Um it's really no different. I hope that clarifies it for you, Mr. Ch. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I think that's just important to put out on the table to make sure that the people that reached out to us get that question answered.

Sure. Um I know you as to be someone of you know true integrity that if there was a conflict you would step up. I just wanted the the public to be able to hear that. Sure. Thank you. Yeah. I I mean in my tenure in planning board I I didn't recuse myself from a single project and I would expect that to be the case on CBA. Um but of course if there's ever an instance I that I had to I I would um my my last question would be how if this moves forward and you are one of three

can you talk to how you would involve um Mr. howigan, you know, as a as another member of the group that maybe doesn't have a vote but does have incredible expertise and a lot to say and clearly wants to give back and do more. Like I feel like maybe if you could sort of speak to how you would involve him more that might ease some of those tensions as well.

Yeah, I mean Joe and I work together on the master plan committee. He has incredible knowledge as a developer in town. Um, and like the planning board, the associate, and I think Jamie mentioned this, I mean, every single topic for discussion goes around the horn to everybody. It's not that the voting members talk and the associates members don't. And all of those commentary, all those considerations are considered equally weighted equally. Um, [cough and clears throat] I don't see any um, you know, hierarchy, if you will, to to comment, consideration, and insight, right? I I think the difference lies in the ultimate vote, but other than that, it's a it's an equal partnership. I mean, that's like I said, that's been my experience on the planning board. That's been my experience, you know, working with Joe on the master plan committee and and would expect that to be the case with any associate member on any board.

Yeah, that's great to hear. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Yeah, Max. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you again for stepping up. It's um means a lot [clears throat] to have uh you know, active members of the community who participate in all boards and committees. Um just a quick question. Um, if residents oppose a project but the law requires approval, how do you engage with their concerns and explain your decision?

You try the best you possibly can. Um, you try to address the resident concerns in any way you can by um influencing the direction of the project as much as humanly possible to address those resident concerns. um and try to overexlain, read verbiage, educate um as much as possible along the way, right? Um sometimes it's tough because people aren't attending every meeting or being there for a whole meeting or reading all the material that was submitted that's, you know, publicly available. Um, and so reminders in a public meeting are important, but um, you know, beyond that again, it's it's it's it's that balancing act and and doing your best to be a good listener and respond to resident concerns through action. And that doesn't necessarily always translate directly to a vote.

Thank you very much. You good enough today? Okay. Hi, Jennifer.

Hi. Um, I've had to put a lot of thought in with this. This whole appointment thing has taken up the last few days of my days and my sleep. Um, first, I was there when you won in 21. So, I know the I've followed your process. I've seen you in action on the planning board. I have no problem with um your resume. My issue is this and this is where I'm finding a a large conflict and it's really not a personal conflict at all. Currently, right now, planning board is being sued. Okay? Not like specifically you, but like the planning board. I want to make sure that everyone understands that we have spoken about the integrity of the town, the integrity of the ZBA and the committees and the council and everything like that. I find it really hard to appoint someone to a ZBA, which is ultimately a board basically that is their own entity. And when we have this open lawsuit, it hasn't been resolved. And the outcome of that lawsuit should be resolved before anybody involved in it is appointed in my opinion to the ZBA because I feel that it could hurt the integrity of the ZBA. It's not again it's nothing personal with you. I would be more than happy to entertain approving you for the ZBA when that was

resolved and have you resubmit. But I find it very hard and deep in my gut hard to put you on there when there's a potential lawsuit that's going through right now. Can I respond? Sorry. That's why I stopped.

Uh so I'm not a member of the planning board anymore. So, I'm no longer involved in that lawsuit. Also, it's not uncommon for there to be lawsuits against a board or a committee. It's part of We have no control over what people appeal. I I'm actually um uh people people can read the history of that whole uh situation, but that's an example of a project that I voted um against that I believe the residents in the town of Franklin was very much so broadly against. And um I don't feel, you know, I don't feel that the decision shouldn't have made for because of a potential lawsuit um against the planning board. I feel like the decision was made in the best interests of the residents in the town. And whether you're on the ZBA or the planning board or town council, it's a risk of being in the position and uh the entity itself can be sued. I'm no longer a part of the planning board and I'm therefore not part of that lawsuit any longer because I'm not on the board

and and I do and I get what you're saying 100%. Like I said, it's not personal towards you at all. Okay. Um and yes, we all stand that chance sitting where we're sitting. So, I get that and I also know the project because I was actually sitting in the audience. I listen to all the abutters. So, um I get it. So, I I it's not like I didn't know what was going on. I won't personally say whether I agree disagree because that's not the topic of conversation right now, but your name is on the lawsuit. I have a copy here. Mhm. So, for me, that is my issue. I

and it's not because of you. Put it this way. If anybody's name was on here that was coming for an appointment, I wouldn't feel comfortable appointing them. Uh Jamie.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, just a couple of um tidbits because I think councelor Callaway Trip and Councelor Morangello are focusing on an issue right now that I think just to take a little deviation away from the conversation I think is really important to highlight. So, one I just want to point out there is no criteria anywhere in our bylaws that say why somebody could vote against a ratification or not. So, um, just in case folks are at home listening, you know, these reasons are reasons that members have and are legitimate reasons that people may say they want to vote no on. Okay. But broader, the ZBA is being sued right now. There's an appeal on just about almost any development project in Franklin. Okay? And there's probably going to be more. So I think what councelor Morangela's questioned a moment ago is about as poignant as any question about development. And I think the people in the audience tonight, I think the people watching at home and all of you need to think about this stuff. Do we have members that vote against projects because residents are angry? We heard about this with 444 East Central Street all the time. We hear about this with Gianetti's Blueberry Farm. We hear about this on Summer Street. We heard about this on the VFW tower. So, the zoning board of appeals is being sued right now on the cell phone tower. So, I can't and I'm not going to engage with councelor Callaway trip to say whether she her opinion is right or wrong. I'm not going there. If her if that's her feeling, completely legit. I just want to make sure there's nowhere in any bylaws anywhere that says that that can't be a reason just like any other member have another reason because of expertise or anything. There is nothing there. But I just want to take a side note as this marker because I do think that the ZBA in general and everything we've heard about the zoning board, the

concerns about development, the concerns about the new growth in town, the less tax levy, I think this is kind of almost a really serendipitous moment given the way that the comments came out from both Max and Jane. I think it's something for folks to hopefully think about. um where do we want to go as a community? What kind of members do we want here there on boards and committees? And how do we relate to residents when we know the law permits a project like the cell phone tower at the VFW? It is federal law, but we have a room full of residents who feel like they're not heard, they're not trusted, we're not honest, they're upset at the decisions. I can't think of another moment in my tenure in 10 plus years right now where those conflict where where that confluence of those issues is more evident than what Max just pointed out and with what Jane just pointed out. So we have lawsuits everywhere. I prefer there warrant because the allegations that are across town that we don't have the money to to finance all these lawsuits is absolutely true. You'll probably be getting a year-end transfer at some point for legal expenses at the end of the fiscal year. But how do we relate to residents who are concerned about development and don't want anything built in their backyards? Because ultimately, I watch all of these meetings. [laughter] And I know some of the other people over here in the stands watch every one of these meetings. And we're dealing with a serious issue right now where we have a very qualified candidate for a zoning board. We heard overwhelmingly that we want more trust, more better demeanor, more respect at zoning boards, Miss Williams clearly will provide that. But because her name was on a lawsuit where she wasn't the only vote voting no. A majority of the planning board voted no on that project. Because I can tell you

in my 10 plus years here, those hearings on Summer Street were far and away some of the most contentious hearings that I have seen in this town. And I would say King Street, I would say Summer Street, not once but twice. The councelor Deloro knows maybe three times. Councelor Deloroco, this one goes way back. And then the cell phone tower on Pawn Street, which will eventually come up probably again at some point in the next several months.

I'm not trying to interfere in the board's decision about ratification. I just thought it was a serendipitous moment where councelor Callaway trip was raising concerns that many people have. But councelor Callaway trip has also been concerned about the membership of the ZBA, right, and about the respect that some of the other board members gave or sometimes maybe the lack of knowledge in the way that they didn't educate the public on some of these issues. But also what Max's question was was perfectly laid out. Perfectly laid out. Um, and I'll end there and just hope that the community can reflect on this a little bit and understand a little bit to themselves. What is it that we're looking for? Are we just going to do what residents want because they're super angry even though we're going to be sued even though we're going to be in court and we're going to be out tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars of money that we don't have? or are we going to try to help educate people at times who quite frankly don't always want to be educated with the facts? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the time.

Thank you, Mark. We have multiple litigation pending at the moment involving the various land use boards, the planning board, the zoning board, the conservation commission. In all the cases, the members are named in their representative capacities, not individually. uh once somebody ceases to be on the playing board as in this case, you could as a formality substitute a current member. But again, because it's only representative capacity, an attorney's time is valuable as well. Nobody nobody keeps up to that and does it. If they were being sued individually based on [snorts]

uh an allegation of individual wrongdoing, that's a different story. But they're only being she was named because at that time she was a member of the sitting planning board and you could do find the same thing with any of the current litigation. But as it goes on, the captions get stale and at some point eventually maybe at the end of the case there would be a motion to simply substitute the new members. Sometimes they don't even name the individual members. They just simply s through the planning board, the con the ZBA, but there are case there are times where you're required at least at the outset to uh identify who the members are.

Okay. I I got one question though. I mean, I I know what you're saying, but she still will have to go to court if this goes to court. No, no, no. Why Why wouldn't she? She was on the plane board because it actually technically why doesn't everyone just resign and we want

In her particular case, that's an appeal from a uh special permit granting authorities decision. The legal process is such the court holds a new hearing. He has new witnesses, does not hear from any of the members of the boards themselves. Their opinions, their their uh subjective opinions, their mind processes are not even relevant. The judge under a special permit granting authority appeal as I said has a new hearing, hears witnesses, makes his or her decision and only then goes back and looks at the deci original board decision on its face and determines whether there's a legal basis. It's a very technical kind of a

just didn't make any sense to me. I thought you would have to go. She you know but I you know better than I do. I'm just saying it doesn't make any sense through you, Mr. Chairman. It's like any appeal or any suit on a liquor light, you know, anything. It's just it it it no one from the council on a liquor license appeal gets dragged to a hearing. It's a completely outside separate information. It's just in this case um for whatever reason the formality they named the entire planning board and I believe they read the uh members who even voted for the project.

Correct. So there was one member I think in that decision who voted yes for the project on Summer Street and they were also named in the lawsuit. So it's really just a legal formality. It really has no practical application. That being said, you know, as I my my comments earlier stay true. You know, these are there is no defined criteria for ratification or not in any bylaw that we have and so um it's somewhat subjective to the entire council on a ratification. Thank you. Okay, Jane, you still got the floor.

Okay. And I appreciate everything you guys just said and I understand everything that you just said. Um I just I just have a hard time with it because my my goal is to bring back the integrity to all the things that have been dismantled. And for me I I just I'm I'm struggling with this one. And again, Jennifer, honestly, like it really is not a personal thing against you at all. I have watched you at the planning board meetings. I've seen some of those contentious planning board meetings and sat there was like, "Oh." Cuz I actually didn't go and I was watching from TV and I was like, "Oh my god." Um, so I get it. And I've been at somewhere. I've even actually got a little mouthy. So I know that it happens. I'm just struggling right now because in my my my gut is telling me to maintain the integrity of the ZBA because of what the lawsuit is saying cuz I read it that I in my gut I need to see that ended before because what I don't want to see happen is something go forward and all of a sudden well weren't you part of or weren't you named of because of X, Y, and Z and it comes back to bite us. And I have to go to sleep at night [snorts] with the way that I vote. And so for right now, I'm I'm just struggling with ratifying this appointment and I'm sorry.

That's all I have.

All right, Jennifer. Thank you. also uh as others have said for stepping in and and uh stepping up and also for your other contributions to the town master plan um uh planning board. Um so I have one question for you. See you you have served planning board master plan your husband's an architect. You're an architect. You obviously live in this town. My question for you is we've done a lot of building over the last 10 years. in your opinion, just want to get your like you were kind of designing the town of Franklin. What have we gotten right? What have we gotten wrong? How would you how do you see things as far as the way that this town should move forward as far as development goes?

That's a great question. I am excited for what the master plan itself and the land use and zoning committee again which is representatives from quite an extensive uh uh group of people different perspectives um has sort of [clears throat] identified as opportunities for um smart growth being the key term of where there may be strategic opportunity for development. velment to positively impact the um fabric of Franklin, the economic um sort of robustness that that could be downtown Franklin or they're crossing and um areas of town where uh a little bit more density might be appropriate versus areas of town where uh it really is not appropriate at all whatsoever because of the fabric of the neighborhood or the traffic or the you know various other you know factors that may be specific to a a site or that immediate sort of surrounding area of town. So, um, without taking a map and like pinpointing every single area, um, and what I think could be awesome for each of those areas, uh, I think it's pretty, um, well thought through in the actual vision for the comprehensive town that the ZBA and the planning board and the town council and, you know, all of these um, really important boards and in committees have an obligation to uphold and work together to um achieve that that vision in that thoughtful way that at the end of the day is coming back to um hitting those goals hitting um where where has been outlined uh it has been outlined for that smart growth um so I

don't know if you've I'm sure you've read them as maybe not it's very long uh kind of boring I worked on the first very involved yes yes and had actually some awesome ideas themselves. I worked on the first one and I did, you know, obviously I I volunteered for the second one. I didn't Oh, well um yeah, I I think there's some real awesome areas where redevelopment or or thoughtful like new life um could be appropriate. And um that doesn't necessarily mean massive. It doesn't mean uh you know, it needs to be right for the neighborhood. And I think that's the key to whatever happens moving forward um is being really responsive to that immediate context. I don't know if that answered your question.

Yeah. Well, I'll just just to follow up. Is there is do you have any opinion on anything you did you haven't liked about some of the development that we've done? Oh, yes. I have I have opinions. Do you want to share it with us? [laughter]

I want public record. Um, I think, um, again, I think if you look at my track record in a planning board, there are some clear developments that I thought were too dense or too large that I did not support and voted no on. Um, I think there were others where density was more appropriate or there were others where um, you know, it may had had to move forward anyway, but like we fought and fought and fought to to change and change and change and respond to resident comments to make the project the best it possibly could be. I think there's some obvious um probably large masses that residents drive by that everyone knows I don't have to say it of like this doesn't feel right here, right? And that's what is really important to consider and and uphold moving forward is to make sure that that that doesn't happen.

So that's the most politically correct way to answer that. Thank you. No further questions for me. Okay. Um, obviously your resume is as good as it, you know, as it can be. Um, I I do agree with the rest of the councils. I would like to move I would like to move forward to try to get this a five member board. I know it's a ch I know it's a charter change. We might have to go to the residents, but what you know, if we have to do that, I think that that's that should be coming up soon. Yeah. Um Um, has a question. Jason has a question. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Just before um because I can sense, you know, maybe other comment may come or um you know, a vote.

Uh just in full transparency, I just want to be clear um about what happens with a vote tonight. So, if you take a vote and obviously ratify Miss Williams, she comes a member through 20 28 or whatever I said in the memo. if the motion was tabled, if the U point was defeated, or if it was a tie. I want to be very clear, just so everybody really knows, Mr. Hunchard's term then continues. So, his term did not end. His term continued on. And until there's a replacement, he stays.

He stays. Tomorrow night there's a ZBA meeting with a public hearing that starts on an accessory drawing unit. Similar to Stoarts, although I think the ADU would probably be much quicker. Um once that hearing starts, you're probably going to want to have that hearing completed. But the town attorney can explain if for those that are new about the continuation of terms, but that's the same situation that happened over the last 7 months. So, I just want to be very clear because I don't want everybody to wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden realize tomorrow Mr. Hunchard is presiding over the ZBA meeting and he may go on for another couple months until we've resolved this issue because I think the community, you know, whether I agree with all of the comments or not, clearly there's been a concern in this community about Mr. Hunchard and at those meetings. So, I just want to make sure I'm clear because I know for veteran members of the group and maybe some of the other volunteers in town, they may be aware of that. This shouldn't be a surprise because I've written about this in my memo regarding the ZBA. But I just want to make sure everybody is extraordinarily clear so that tomorrow, however the vote goes, that happens. And maybe attorney Sell can just make sure to explain that really quickly about the uh law continuation.

Mark to the chair. Yeah, go ahead. The charter has a continuity continuity my bad provision and it it basically says as the town administrator has stated that even if somebody's term expires they continue to hold a position until uh there and a replacement is either elected or appointed as applicable. Got a question. Go ahead. Yeah. So uh in terms of resolutions, I believe it takes 14 days for resolutions to take effect under our charter. Does that stand true for appointments? Mark,

that is a hypothetical uh because of the recall provision and the charter and arguably that would apply to legislative action as opposed to ratification which is uh couldn't be challenged on that basis of uh other legislation anyway. So uh it's not the same process. [clears throat] Okay. It's a different process. So it's not ambiguous. It's no not ambiguous. It will take effect immediately. Not in 14 days. Right. Okay. It's spelled out actually.

Oh, you done? Okay. Just out of curiosity, if that was to happen, whether it was tabled all the stuff you said, no action. Um, Bruce Huntard's term ended be on the third in June and I understood that. I understand he had to stay in the seat because of the project, right? But why would that remain now in effect? Why wouldn't Well, what I don't understand is why wouldn't the people that were appointed, if there was still an empty seat, one of the alternates step up?

I made the decision through you, Mr. chairman to not nominate anyone else to replace Mr. Hunchard during the 444 process for the reasons I've explained many times before, including the fact that Miss Whitmore had disqualified herself for missing a requisite meetings and Mr. Hunchard, there were no associates to fill that seat. Right.

Correct. So, if I had nominated someone else, you would have had a two to two or one to one, excuse me, possibly on a vote on the project. could have been two to nothing, but it could have been 0 to2, 1:1, or 2 to nothing, but would have given an advantage to the proponent to be able to go to court and say this process got politicized. They changed all the membership in the middle of the hearing, and that would have been very favorable in a litigation piece for common sense, right? Um, it wasn't a fair public hearing, but that doesn't I made that decision, and I made that clear in September or last summer, but it still holds true tonight. If for some reason Miss Williams was and because we have an absent member tonight, there is the possibility of a tie vote which is a which is a non-ratification, right? So if there was a tie vote, which wouldn't happen if Mr. Leblanc was here, obviously it would have been an odd number. A tie vote would be a denial. Mr. Hunchard's term would continue and then I would go back and nominate presumably someone else to fill Mr. Huntard's tenure. But that may not be for another two or three weeks. And so Mr. Hunchard's term continues under the con my bad. It was the continuity provision. The continuity provision in the town charter.

So you couldn't have an like one of the associates step up temporarily. Now they Well, if Mr. Hunchard didn't attend the meeting, they could. Okay. Okay. But Mr. Hunchard's term would continue on until he is replaced. And that's the same with any board member on any board committee. that's in the town charter. So, I just want to make sure I don't want people to wake up tomorrow or Friday and go, "Oh, well, wait a minute." So, I just want to make sure people are very clear about that. And some part of the dynamic and why I'm explaining that is also because you have an even number of people here tonight, right? So, I just want to make sure that's clear. It's a unique dynamic. If you didn't have that, it would be different.

Can I ask a question to the chair? Um, why wouldn't Isabella replace Bruce? Well, well, number one, in my in my estimation, uh Miss Carter's this is her first volunteer uh opportunity. I thought it was a better path for her to take that six-month seat to try to make sure that she can fit this into her schedule and this works for her. Whereas Jen obviously has been volunteering for four, six years now. Six, I think 2020. Jen, we go back, right? 2020 when you got on as an associate on the planning board. Um that was a memorable night by the way. That was Joe was here for that one too and he was a candidate. Um, and that took how many roll calls, Brian? Three, four. Um, sorry. Sorry for the memory. It just kind of flipped back as I'm looking out. I see Brian Chandler and Joe and Jen right in front of me. So, Jen served as an associate on the planning board, ran for the planning board, was on the master plan committee, and was obviously significantly um committed to this. And so, I thought that having her for the two and a half year seat would be uh appropriate. But even if you have Miss Carter in that seat, it's the same dynamic, right? I mean, you voted to affirm her unanimously tonight, but you know, these I put out a packet last Friday. They applied last year. I mean,

you know, I mean, it's like you could have said the same thing to Miss Carter and said, "Oh, well, we don't, you know, you know, I don't know if you guys were going to vote for them or not." So, I mean, it's like, you know, it's it's tough. It's a tough call. My my thinking here was just that if the need was to replace Bruce, which it has been. Yeah. Okay. But we had Isabella, she's gotten she's gotten approved, she could replace him. That would leave you with still short one person on the board. Just take this through hypothetically,

um, and we, you know, we have an associate now. Joe couldn't, you know, vote on the 444, but he could vote on everything else. He's not, you know, conflicted. Well, from my standpoint, both candidates are extraordinarily qualified. I obviously am pushing and would suggest to all of you to ratify both of them and I understand other people may have different opinions on that and I totally respect that. But when I'm going through the nomination and thinking through and I've already explained why these two folks are qualified, you know, I go through with it thinking um these two folks should be ratified. They're both very qualified. They're going to improve the trust and restoration of the ZBA. Um, I felt with Miss Carter obviously volunteering for 6 months. For some reason, if this doesn't fit her schedule, she doesn't like it or whatever reason, then we can nominate somebody else in June. But, um, you know, I fully anticipate that she'll stick around for another three years. But, I know that Jen's committed to the rest of the term, and so I nominated her for that particular seat. But, I just again don't want people to wake up in a couple days and go, "Oh, uh, Bruce is at the hearing tomorrow night. He's presiding. How'd this happen?" And so I just want to make sure it's very clear that he will continue on under the charter provision.

Mark, so that's just to clarify. Short answer is each of those people would nominate for a specific seat, not just at large members. So So that means that Jen would take over as chair. No, they actually they'll have an election tomorrow night. the the ZBA will reorganize how elected to chair, vice chair, clerk tomorrow. That's the way they will. We don't appoint the chairs or anything. Obviously, Bruce has been chair for a long time. So, I was just kind of curious.

Um, yeah. No. Um, I I do think Joe got screwed, so I'll be honest with you. Um, that's just my personal opinion. Uh, he's, you know, he's been on the board. Nothing against you two, Isabella and Jen. You're both more than qualified. But, you know, I do I do feel that uh you know, Joe's been working a long time. He's been around town the whole time and he knows his stuff. But, I mean, that that was your call. But, I mean, that that's what I think. I think, you know, and that's why I want to move forward to try to get it a fiveman board to be honest with you. So, outside of that, um, clerk, we'll read the appointment.

Oh, yeah. You want to go to the town? Thank you again, Mr. chairman council uh Joe Evans again [clears throat] 5 Tam Shanner Road um I think it's important to add some color to councelor Callaway's trip comment about this lawsuit um this this lawsuit stemmed uh from two applications uh that were made to the planning board on this is pending litigation it's totally inapp appropriate to be discussed in an open session. It's pending. It's in know the law. So

you Mr. Chairman, if Mr. Evans wants to speak to this and this is goes into court and is admissible in the decision, that's his choice. I agree with attorney Serell, but you know, I'm sure he's got some comments he wants to say. [snorts] Uh nothing I'm going to say is um what I believe is uh is confidential. Uh this is all on public record. Yeah.

Um, so I want to add a little bit of color to what I believe the lawsuit is over. There's two senior housing projects that were uh put before the planning board concurrently. One on Panther Way, one on Summer Street. Both projects 12 to 14 acres in size. Both projects very similar number of units proposed. both projects with some grade issues. I think it was actually identical 8% grade issues that were brought up at the meetings. The summer street project was loaded with a butters whereas the Panther Way project maybe had one or two of butters that had showed up. My my um what I'd like to just let you know and you can go back and look at the meetings on YouTube is that the summer street project it was cited by members of the planning board, Miss Williams specifically, and I quote, "No critical need for senior housing in town." No critical need. And that we were already over our two 2.5% threshold. I'm going to say another quote from Miss Williams. Quote, "We don't need this in our inventory." Jump over to the Panther Way project. There was never such a quote mentioned at that for the Panther Way project. We didn't need it on Summer Street, but we need it over here a mile away. To me, that raises red flags. There's never been a clear explanation. Uh, as you have heard the matters in

litigation and it it and it frankly it it it smells. It does. Um, I've watched numerous planning board meetings. I've been in front of the planning board. There's certain members uh I'm sorry. There's certain there's certain people that get in front of these boards that in my opinion are treated differently than others. You see all smiles when the favorite developer walks in front of the planning board is a room full of smiles from the planning board. Another developer or applicant gets in front of that planning board. And I'm not saying this happens all the time, but it's almost as if what the hell are you doing here? And I saw that. I saw that. You can go back and watch the meetings for those two projects. So, um I wanted to bring that up and nothing against either developer. They're both reputable people, uh reputable people. They've both done great projects in town. So, that that's not my, you know, I have no problem with either one of them. They're both great guys. Um but it was un it was done unfairly in my opinion. Um, I'd also just like to ask Miss Williams and um, this relates to um, uh, a project that was done on King Street. Um, is it you're you're a licensed architect and I believe your husband as well and your husband owns

there's uh, to the chair. I I think it's appropriate for the uh person at the microphone to make comments regarding a lawsuit, but I don't think it's appropriate to have the um person testifying have to respond to them. She more importantly, the comment should be addressed to the chair, not a not a Yeah. No interrogation of a witness. Oh, okay. No problem. I She wants to respond. Sure. You want to respond, J? I'll wait. We'll see the question. We got We got to wrap it up, though. Joe,

I I I'll try I'll try to be brief, Mr. Chairman. I I appreciate the time. Um there was a project on King Street. My understanding is from reliable sources and I and I I hope I'm hope I'm wrong or I'm not correct, but I believe that that Miss Williams husband had done some work on the project on on a pro multif family project that was put before the board on King Street. And I'd like to know if that was if that's true or not, Mr. chairman if she could answer that through the chair. No, my husband did not do that project on King Street. And can I just make a general comment? Sure.

Uh, every project that has been mentioned thus far is in a completely different zoning district, completely different scales of actual buildings themselves and completely different circumstances. And so just like you get like press releases where you get like a quote taken out of you know five paragraphs to you know tell a story. Um I think that uh understanding the full story for every single project and the series of meetings and approval process and circumstances around every project and the clear reasoning for approving or denying every project that goes forward on any board is important to before passing judgment.

Okay. I'd like to know if Mr. the chairman if her husband was ever engaged on that project either paid or unpaid if she could answer that question through the chair. Uh go ahead. My husband was approached by that developer early on but did nothing with it and the developer went with a completely different architect. Were there were there were there drawings done or conceptual drawings done by your husband for that project? I I Yeah, this is this something you got to talk about with her husband. Well, it it raises the reason I bring it up, Mr. Chairman,

is it raises a concern if there was work that was engaged on King Street at whatever level you want to call it, that should have been disclosed. But she's saying there wasn't. I understand. Yeah, but it was there wasn't. Then it was well he was asked about it and then he refused. Yeah. Through through the chair. I mean architects get were asked to do projects all the time and they might look at something and decide not to do it or not get hired. So the project that went in front of King Street was not my husband's project. I understand it wasn't his project. All I asked was was he engaged? Did he do any bit of work on the project? And you're saying no. And that's fine. That answers my question.

That's fine. Um, I just want to throw my support be behind Joe Halligan. Again, he he's been It's not, Mr. Chairman. It's not before you tonight. It's not It's not before me tonight. So So we can't talk about that. Okay. Um, he should be the chairman of that board. Okay. Go ahead, Joe. Hi, Joe Hian again. Isn't it fun? We're all fighting for a position. I mean, [laughter] how how many people fight for positions on boards and now with everybody everybody wants to get involved. So, it's funny how things boomerang around though and it's comical and and again, I'll support anything that happens here tonight. I just have to be here to represent myself.

It was six, seven years ago as they had just said that we had a council meeting and a planning board meeting uh five members and nine council and three times a vote was taken. Jim was trying to get her feet wet getting into an as an associate member of the planning board. Three votes were taken. Tie score. Tie score. Tie score. This was going nowhere. Who raised his hand and said, "I want to change my vote." And I voted for her. So, I work with all these people. I enjoy what I do. It turned out to be a great night. She was a great asset to the board.

But I will tell you though, I usually consider myself one of the smartest guys in the room. But today, I got beat. Jamie is one of the best in a positive way. I'm not saying this in a negative way cuz I love Jamie. There's a man that this council should never consider letting go. Just how this meeting was structured tonight, he did a great job. Had Jen gone first, I might have had a shot for that other one. But the way this meeting is going tonight with Bruce and the threat of Bruce, I'm a dead duck right now. I It was structured the perfect way. I commend him. He's He beat me tonight. He's a smart guy. Don't ever lose that man.

Thanks, Joe.

Mr. Chairman, am I going to be able to express my concerns about my application? Is this the proper time? No. No. I don't think when is the proper I think that would be the gatekeeper is the TA he makes the would be with him would be Jamie Mr. Chairman I spoke to Mr. Helen the other day. Am I correct? Uh you applied on Monday. No no the question that I asked you. Let me finish. Did I speak to you yesterday again? I'm going to say what I'm going to say. One

and so applied on Monday. Came in the office Tuesday morning. I called him at about 10 o'clock. We talked for about a half hour or so and I think had an educated conversation, but apparently we didn't have the same we didn't hear the same things that each other was saying. So, I apologize for that. It's nothing against him. I this is the first time I've ever seen him in my life. I don't know Joe. He's probably never met me. I think this is the first time. Happy to meet with him. If there was more time, uh there was another gentleman who applied for ZBA in mid January. I met with him over Zoom last Friday. Um, and I'm glad that there are more candidates coming in to want to fill on the ZBA. Um, but Jen and Isabella were first in line, both extremely qualified candidates that fit all the criteria that's here. I think both of them address the concerns in the community with the zoning board of appeals and integrity and etc., etc. I'm happy to meet with Mr. McCann and we did talk yesterday and I apologize to him that he feels like the there was a lost in translation moment. Um, but it's also rushed, right? I mean, this is it's like, you know, you you know, just for clarity, just because he applied on Monday, this, you know, I nominate you guys either ratify or don't.

Yeah. I there's not going to be a meeting where I'm coming up to you with four applicants and say you choose. In fact, Mr. Caligan just spoke eloquently of why you don't have four applicants because as you remember councelor Delorco, it took us two and a half hours that night after Joe did succeed his vote to Jen. So I didn't vote for Jen. I voted for Kobe. You voted for Kobe. That's right. You're right. You got Kobe. That's right. [laughter] You You did vote for I did. Um so I'll cease to Mr. McCann in case he's got but I mean tonight the conversation's around her. I'm happy to meet with them of course, but I just didn't have any time yesterday to physically meet. But I did obviously talk to him on the phone for 30 or 40 minutes or so.

So, so I think you and him have to get together. Mr. Delco, um I'm not going to walk away from this mic until somebody clarifies for me why my application cannot be recognized. There is not a drop dead date for applicants to submit for this position. I agree with you. Correct.

I agree with you. Finally, finally once tonight, I'm going to be correct because everything else that I've said this evening, earlier and now is still correct. Still correct. Mr. Helen, tonight on two occasions and even yesterday when we spoke, you told me you have a hard time getting applicants to come before the zoning board of appeals. And tonight, all we're doing is Mr. Hallagan just said, we're arguing about applicants. so many applicants for this position as I said before me please I still haven't heard why I can't be heard on this because it has to go through him

I spoke to him yesterday I spoke to the gentleman yesterday so first of all it's a 48 hour it's an open meeting law issue first and foremost I put the nominations out with a holiday on Monday I put them out on Friday for 48 hours I can't just change the agenda tomorrow and tell until Miss Carter or Miss Williams you're out I'm going put Joe McCann or someone else in like that's [snorts] it's an open meeting law violation number one. Number two, and I'll be blunt

to yes, we are looking for applicants and I'm glad that you applied, Mr. McCann, and I'm also glad that the gentleman in Jan, you know, a couple weeks ago apply, okay, but up until a week, two weeks ago, I had two people and fortunately, they're extraordinarily bright, talented, and qualified. But I find it disheartening a little, I'll be very open about this, that two nominees go out on Friday and then all of a sudden two or three days later, everybody wants to change everything because oh well, you know, we don't like one of the candidates. Fair enough. If you have an opinion and counselors want to vote against Miss Williams, that's absolutely within your right. All due respect to all of you and absolutely you can vote the way that y'all want to vote, right? But it's not fair to them either to all of a sudden wake up Tuesday morning and just start saying, "Well, we're just going to start cherryplucking everywhere." And I'm a little disappointed that people are really reacting, obviously, as you've heard tonight, to one individual. I haven't heard any critique of Miss Carter. I'm only hearing a critique of Miss Williams because of her previous work on the planning board and maybe some other factors, but that's it. I can't just change the agenda Tuesday afternoon to consider other people. And by the way, the process in the charter is clear. I've already said it 10 times tonight. I wish Mr. McCann would acknowledge this.

I nominate, you ratify. So therefore, you're not going to get five people that I'm going to hand over to you to do a pick. You're if you vote down Jen tonight, Mr. Hunchard will continue for as long as another ratification happens. I will nominate someone else in 2, three, four weeks or whatever. Then you'll have an opportunity to vote yes or no on that person. If you vote them down or vote for it, whatever. That's the way the charter That's the way the charter works. That's the way the charter works. Thank you very Mr. Do if I may. Through you to Mr. Helen. Believe me, I have no objection to the two applicants that you're recommending.

Great. Overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly qualified for the position. Overwhelm. And I don't know either one of them. and I wish them both the best of luck. It's a great job. Believe me, I do.

With that being said, Mr. Hallagan, you talk about fairness, Mr. Halligan, as a gentleman who was speaking prior to me, he should have had first shot. You want to talk fairness, that gentleman should have had the first shot. And if you mentioned old blood, I sat on this council. You keep you keep bringing up I don't know whether you're trying to do it as an insult to me that I don't know the rules of the council. I sat on this council. Some of these people weren't even born when I was here. Yeah.

For two terms. I've given back to this not only at my time on the Franklin Town Council. You people don't know what I have given back to the seniors when the senior center was called Central Park Terrace when not everybody could move in there. It was dedicated strictly to seniors. This individual has given and given and given back to the town of Franklin. I have been here and all my life. I will reside no place else but the town of Franklin. The town of Frank. But what you're saying tonight and what you said yesterday at 360° different from the conversation that you and you should have said to me yesterday, Joe, you can't. I can't accept your application. That's not what you did.

That's Mr. Delco. Please let me finish. That's not what you did yesterday. And I just want you to admit admit to it. Joe, I'm not going to admit to something. I told you I've had to explain a handful of times this evening the ratification process and it still keeps coming up. So I'm not your application is is is a second tier issue to the people that were already nominated on the agenda last Friday. They were not nominated. They weren't tonight. No, they nominated from him. I nominated Excuse me. My mistake. They were nominated tonight. I nominated No, I nominated last Friday. I put out an agenda and a packet. Yeah. technically appointed appointed. They were appointed not

to be ratified. To be ratified. Okay. So, we're all wrong. But Mr. Sell for the first time is is correct. I'm going to give you a one over all the years that I've known you. Anyhow, and that I I say that fooling around. Please don't take it. So, this means nothing to I'm not going to be able to post on this at all. It doesn't mean nothing. It means you're still you're there this again in the future, right? You're right. An associate could get bumped up. Understood. The gentleman that applied two weeks before you, I could nominate or I could possibly nominate you. Yeah.

But I'm a little frustrated right now. [laughter] This has been two hours over semantics that feels like, how do you not know I put out an agenda last Friday? like I I publicly posted the names and I think what happened was I think what happened was move on and get this and vote for this and like I said we're moving forward to getting more me more members on the board hopefully so we can we can we can look forward into this and who knows if an associate member is going to leave then you you then something else happens or if poor Isabella in six months says you know I can't do it because it's too much with my kids so in that case

or someone has a family issue whatever. Like I mean, Jeez, I'm going to take 30 more seconds of your time, Mr. Chairman. I'll table this. I'll I'll forget about it. I won't even come back to I'm going to do you as a favor. I'm not even going to entertain it again. Whether it be today, tomorrow, 3 years, I probably won't be here in 3 years. Okay? You won't see me again apply for this position. I'm gonna now I'm going to tell you how I feel about how things are done up here and especially the way that you I have the right to speak sir the discretion of the chair Joe about this issue

I'm going to speak the way I want unless you shut that mic off on me I'm going to speak the way that I want I don't like the way things go in some of these meetings I don't like the way that people are treated when they come before you sir okay and the way that you treat other council You think that you're up here and everybody else is down here. You're not. You're not. What you tend to forget, and this will be my last statement, you work for us, right? You work for us. We don't work for you. And you get paid a very good piece of change to do it. And not to treat people like they're lower than you.

I'm done. Thank you, All right, let's go. We're going to call you going to read the uh appointment. If we're there, I'll happily read it. Mr. Chairman,

this is an appointment to the zoning board of appeals. The town administrator has appointed the following individual to serve on the zoning board of appeals with term to be effective January 21st, 2026 and to expire as stated below. Jennifer Williams of 28 Queen Street in Franklin. Term to expire June 30th, 2028. The motion is to ratify the appointment by the town administrator of this individual named above to serve on the zoning board of appeals with a term to become effective January 21st, 2026 and to expire as stated above. So moved. So move. Second.

Second. I have a second. All in favor? I. [clears throat] Any opposed? Motion carries. [applause] Moving on. We have no public hearings, no license transactions. We have a presentation tonight on town infrastructure. Oh, Brutus. Come on.

This thing doesn't work. body. I've been using my phone.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather No, no. Just [clears throat] take a break. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we're going to [snorts] take a break for a couple minutes for uh A little break. [laughter] Everyone can think about what

Let the fun resume. Yeah. [laughter] So, Brutus, you're up, kid. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 5 minutes or less. [laughter] Yeah, looks so concerned. Are we going to enter the comedy portion of the night? [laughter] We're getting a little punchy. A little punchy. It's okay.

Yeah, that one's a little tough to follow up on. But, um, I got a presentation of public works. Um, folks at home know me. I'm Bruce Kenneri, director of public works. I'm also joined tonight um by a great team. So, there's Doug Martin. He's the water and sewer superintendent. You got Jake Stanley. He's the assistant water and sewer superintendent. So you got Derek Adams. He's the envi environmental coordinator. Kind of oversees storm water and our uh trash recycling program. We have Kate Hingley, our G Hinckley, our GIS coordinator. We got Jay Sterns in the back. He's our fleet manager. We got Mike Magio, the town engineer. We have Carlos Rebelloo, um the highway ground superintendent. We have Tony Bernetta, the assistant highways ground superintendent. In the back, the two brains of the operation would be Kathy Moad. She's the office administrator, runs all the money, make sure we keep in line, so I have to come back and ask for more. And then we have Roseanne assistant. So that's that's my team and they're excellent. So I was asked to give an overview of uh the public works. I got a lot of slides here. Just show you where we're at, what we've done, and where we're going. So I'll try to get through it rather quickly. Um roadway conditions. Um we were the first towns we were looking at our stuff a long time ago. We all talk about asset management plans and stuff like that. So, we did a a big study back in uh 2012 and basically our road standards was a 77, you know, a solid C. At the time, the council wanted to, you know, move move things forward. 2019, um, we were down to 73.5 and this year we did it. Now, we're down to 70.7. Okay. Average expenditure for road improvements been steadily declining. Um 2019 we average around $2 and a half million dollars a year. This is just for road improvements. Um 2005 as of right now is going to be uh 1.7 million. So you can see we're way below that mark where we need to be just to maintain

never get better. And you got to understand and I will say this a lot different things we do. Everybody has different opinions. You know some people say we get the calls all the time. I mean one of my favorite stories that a UPS driver call me and say I can't wait to get to Franklin. You got the best roads ever. Okay. We hear from residents in town, we got some of the worst roads ever. So, I mean, it it is an opinion that's out there, but this is a standardized thing that we try to do. Um, road improvement cost, our highway operating budget is about $1.3 million. Um, past average annual funding spreades, like I said, was $2.5 million for road improvements. But the previous funding sources for that was the water main replacement program, which I'll talk about later. they would the water would contribute some of that because we replace a water man and then we've improved the road after obviously chapter 90 use always around a million bucks but with the new um new stands are up to 1.7 uh ARPA money we got a lot of ARPA money for road improvements uh mass works grant the biggest one you know that' be Grove Street that you know we redid the whole road and part of that was I going to throw it out there's like why is the sidewalk so big because that's required you know the conductivity to make it that big and then tap uh town capital appropriations different times in the budget there'd be extra money through the capital and they go ahead and point money to do roads in town. Um total spend like I said 1.7 plan below chapter 90 funding for 2026 is go figure 1.7 that's it we're not getting any of the money from any other sources the way it's appropriated now was like the ones above and we need to average $3 million just to get our SRS back to we were 5 years ago not including associated drainage sidewalks and ADA improvements that I'll show you our projects cost just of different things we We have 126 miles of sidewalks. Um 76 are asphalt, 50 are

concrete. Sidewalk condition index similar is a 67.62. We have a repair backlog of right now of $18 million. Okay. There's an ADA transition plan. Um we cite all our ADA ramps in town. Um 1253 ramps need improvement to meet current standards of $10 million. Just a quick question. I'm not up on the AD the what AD you know the acronym American Disabilities American Disabilities Actility. All right. Awesome. Thank you.

So a lot of crosswalks they change the standards out there. So they had it's like the wide and the grades and you have to adjust all these. A lot of ours don't meet that. So we had to study them. Now it doesn't mean this is one of those things they can't force us to do it as of right now but there we have a plan in place. We have to appropriate some money a year but there's no time frame on this to get this done. But that number is out there. right now and every year goes by further things deteriorate of parking lots um all around town we have over 40 acres of parking lot uh we have a repair backlog of uh almost a million bucks and then we looked at the quiet zone everybody famili zone is no

uh the quiet zone will be the trains coming through town like you go through Norfolk they don't hit the horns okay so if they don't hit the horns we got to do all kinds of road improvements all kinds of signage and everything else to do that but that was study that was done. Previous council looked at it to consider. So these are signs to tell the train operators not to hit the whistle. There's a federal compliance statute with it where if you want to get rid of the train whistles, you have to do the infrastructure improvements around the tracks so that people then know the trains are coming because there won't be any of those loud whistles. But people that live near the train tracks complain because they get woken up by the whistles and the horns. Um,

this is not just at crossings, right? No, it is. It's all the crossings. Yeah. For motors and pedestrians, right? And then there's like a certain length of where you need still need to have crossings and infrastructure to make sure that people know not to go on the tracks because they won't be doing the whistles anymore. So, it's all those crossings, but eventually you'll get emails from some people complaining about the whistles. I I just I thank you for saying that. I didn't know what that meant. Think about a lot more gates and a lot more lights. And then if you live near those crossings, maybe you don't hear anymore, but you have a lot of flashing lights, right? Because you have to you have to mark it somehow, right? Okay. No, I I didn't I didn't [snorts] get it. I I I'm whatever. Okay. [laughter]

7 million bucks not to have sirens. But that's not that's not a requirement. That is something that if the town chooses to do, we are not obligated to do this. We looked into it. Correct. And it was way too much. The money is just I was really surprised to to be honest with you. To be honest with you, I was shocked at how much money it was going to cost. We just don't We don't have it. You know, some of us like train. [laughter] I grew up next to a train. Woke me up once your kids are grown. Yeah.

So, our this is our grounds department. Um our operating budget for the grounds is about a million a little over a million bucks. We take care of um all the town parks, the sculpture park, the community garden, disc golf, street hockey that we have, tennis and pickup. Our fields will be all the town and school fields, natural and synthetic turfs we maintain. We do all line painting, grooming, fencing, and irrigation replacement parts as needed. You know, this has come up with the council. So, just so you know, about a 60% of this budget, even though it's under general fund, this is to take care of the schools. So, if that million is, if you ever want to count, isn't that a 600,000 going to the schools? Because we took that over back in 2005 or six.

Yeah, I was going to say six. I think we we took over the grounds because it is more efficient in the whole scheme of things having one person do it, but there's still a cost associated with it. Uh, Central Motors, uh, once again, 1.5. I always think it's interesting. You think about it. We have 218 registered vehicles and equipment in town. That's not including lawnmowers, tractors, weed whackers, everything else that we take care of. Um, all the winter stuff we do, the oils, tires, vehicle equipment, fuel, the deaf that we have to use. Now, you know what deaf is? It's a sub. It's you have to put in with a diesel fuel to make it more um environmentally friendly, separate.

And the thing you got also remember with public works is we're first responders, so we have to have a backup of supplies down there. You know what I'm saying? cuz when the electricity goes out, well, that means we can't go buy stuff. If the gas pumps go out, we have to make taste sure we're still running cuz we have to be respond out there. So, it's uh it's tricky and do a good job with that. Um curbside trash and recycling operating budget is 3.1. We have 90 almost 9,800 curbside customers. We have, I think you might have heard this before, we have a extremely low recycling contamining rate, which means when our stuff is hauled to the the plant to be sorted, okay? We don't have a lot of trash in that. The residents town do a really good job, which means we pay less per ton than other communities don't that have a lot of trash in their in there. So, that's really good. The residents doing a great job with that. Um,

contract for disposal and negotiations. You all know where the wheel of plant is. You know, when you're driving out Western Mass, that big thing's always thrown off steam. That's where our trash goes to get burned. Okay, we're one of the second tier communities came in. So, we have a very low rate, but that term is already to expire. So, this is going to be a big driver for that because we do it by the tonnage. So, that rate can go up. We don't know. It's being negotiated with a bunch of communities. It's one of those things they kind of need us because we have to give them trash for that plant. Okay. But they can also say no. So, it's a big balancing act that we're trying to negotiate with. um future waistbands, compost. We're trying to get them more in the compost thing because they're closing all landfills in um Massachusetts and no one wants a landfill in the town. You talk about they don't want these apartments across the street. I mean, no one wants new landfill in their town, right? So, that's getting very hard and that's getting very expensive because they're all getting filled up. Um this is one that we we've talked about quite a bit. The cart replacement, we're way past due on this. So, the lifespan of those carts out there that we have are about 10 years and we're currently at 15 years on them. We have 20,000 barrels of carts and they're 70 bucks a piece. We looked them up. So, that's $1.4 million. Okay. They've lasted longer because I think the sun is the hardest thing on them. So, a lot of P folks take theirs inside and that's why I think they come up with a tenure. But, they're going to start deterioring like anything else rather quickly. So, that's something we're going to look at. We've been spending money upgrading something that, you know, just naturally break the wheels and stuff like that, but it could be a big number. They all just collapse one day. I don't know. We're past that, but we're getting close.

But Brutus, that's paid for by the fee that's in the budget. Yeah.

Um operating budget for the recycling center is around a quart million dollars. We had This is a very popular program since I started here. Um 3,800 recycling customers up there. Um but we're still dealing with recent significant cost increase. Um household hazardous waste obviously going up that rigid plastic, you know, the the stuff we were one of the first communities to take that. We were one of the first communities to take styrofoam through the years. Um latex paint. The costs are just going up to get rid. And we haven't raised the price up there. I I just throw out there. No one likes to say you get a raise up, but it's $35 a sticker. It's a pretty good deal because we've been able to balance those numbers. Um the it's one of those things, you know, the better we do up there and the more stuff we take in, the more it cost, you know. So, um people like in this town do like to recycle. Uh the landfill, this is like the longest going project. This has been trying to I mean, we could do a whole study on this thing, but that landfill up there is officially not cap capped. I mean, if so, two things happen up there. If you go by that landfill, what's one thing that's missing that you see in every other landfill you drive around?

The stacks. Stacks

for the gas release up there. We don't have that. It was never capped. That was capped with big fill clay at the time. And then there was another issue up there. If you don't know about it, they kind of filled in the state forest a little. We've got a bunch of trash on that. So, we went through a bunch of litigation. And the state doesn't like to give up uh land once they own it. So, Jamie, you we could talk about this forever. Yeah. But we do own the land now, do the trash. So we're gonna eventually we start the process of figuring out how to officially close it to meet D standards and then also we want to do, you know, a state-of-the-art recycling center up there post. I mean it's pretty good we have but we want to try to do something better. But basically at the end of the day and these these numbers are out there but basically it cost $350,000 per acre. We have about 10 acres up there. We're looking at 6 to10 million to close that thing. So that's something else that's coming down. Uh drinking water uh once again $8 million completed project water main replacement over the last 20 years. We spent about $22.5 million on that. Uh the grocery water treatment plant um that's going to be done. We did that back in 2001. Spent $12 million on that. The Fail Street water main replacement program 250K. Okay. Currently approved in funded projects. The Franklin Ridge booster station $2.5 million. That's getting pretty good. That was a grant money that we got for that. Uh well 7 PAS removal, $6.5 million. That was SRF loan completion on the Fisher tree water plant which is now down. That's our largest oldest producer in town. And for and we're planning that we're probably getting PAS because PAS was coming anywhere, but that was a $25 million SRF loan and that'll be complete in um 2027. Um drinking water, these are unfunded stuff we have right now. the water man replacement rival improvement program renewal. Um, basically the next phase like to do is $12 million. How that all started back in, you know, I say the turn of the century, there was a lot of bad roads in Franklin and it was a lot of bad water pipe and it was really easy

to tie these two together and we could use a little water money. We use a little this. We start fixing all our roads. Okay. Um, it is very successful. We haven't done that in three years. You know, we were doing every year there a 5year appropriation. the council would approve and then we'd pay off the bond and pay it down, but we haven't done that. Um, but the other one is the water tank replacement rehab, $12.5 million. That's the hillside uh replacement, that's $10 million. The bald hill and forge, that's a rehab inside the tank. Um, in Pleasant Street service area configuration, it's a smaller, it's like a sub thing that the way it's pumped around and everything else. We'd like to get rid of that, improve that $7 million. And at PAS potential, I mean, I have no idea, but you know, I threw out 50 million there because that's just where it's going to have to go. I thought there was a great picture I'd throw in here. This is [snorts] So, our tank out there, I when I started was the seventh oldest in the country. Where are we at now?

Oh, we're number one. So, we [clears throat] have the And if you go, this is an old map. You can actually see in 1888. Where's that hillside? Hillside tank. the oldest cast iron tank still in the country that we maintain but we're using. It's part of our system. Oldest library, oldest water tank. That's right. [laughter] We're number one marketing. Let's go. I don't like being number one on this one. I got to tell you though. [laughter] Yeah. first and [clears throat] go. Thank you, Steve.

So, the waterline improvement five-year plan, you know, um so Pine Street, you you know, I know everybody which what looks at the social media and stuff like Yeah, we know about it. That's been on our list forever and we're trying to improve that and I think we have a plan this year [snorts] to to get going on that specific on Pine Street. A lot of breaks up there. It's a AC pipe that just it's it's I could go on for about that. Okay. We're also looking at Partridge and section of Maple Street. uh Park Road, um Hillside, more and Pinehurst, that area, Pleasant Hill Road, Acorn Terrace, and then Meadow Parkway. So, those are the ones, but to do all that, it's about 12 million bucks to replace the water line. Do you have a question? And when we replace the water line, we do the road. Yes.

And when we replace the road, we're not going to make it higher so that Jane floods more, right? No. We're going to make sure the drainage works out

cuz the other five neighbors will thank you, too. Okay. [laughter] So, uh, and then I just got the list down here. Lincoln Street, Dams Town Line, you know, Pleasant Street. But we have a plan for all this stuff. It's just, it's just a funding source. I just, you know, we we know we compete with other things. Uh, sewer, our operating budget, uh, $4.5 million. Obviously, the Beaver Street interceptor, that's that's the biggest infrastructure job this town has ever thought about doing is $33 million. It's pretty much on schedule. We're making there. We're trying to we can save some money out there, whatever. Um, I lining that's when we actually put we have a lot of old what's called clay pipe when sewer was first put in Franklin downtown area and put a liner inside there and we seal it up. Two good things about that. It keeps water groundwater from going in and actually get a little instruct structural improvements because you think of every I always look at every the ground water we don't take from the ground is good for us cuz we don't want to go in the sewer because a we own basically 80% of the plant rough numbers and that means we have to pay to treat it because it goes to the plant. Also we get all our ground we get all our drinking water from the ground. So we don't taking ground water out we want to keep it in Franklin. So that's part of why this is improvement. Um we've done phase 10, we're looking at phase 13 is $2 million. If you don't know, we have 23 lift stations in town. Basically lift station, it goes to low air. We accompan [clears throat] it's taken by gravity. Um we've done an asset management plan to prioritize improvements. We've got a lot of grant funding for this. Um upgrade existing control systems 200 50k. Um, we've got energy we energy gap improvements and then we get a lot of grants. They give a lot of grants for sew which is good. Um, I'm trying to go through these real fast for you guys. So, I want to show you this. Can you see it?

So, this shows you when we go inspect the pipes, you can see that's ground water shooting into the pipe. So, that water is clean water, but ends up going to the plant. Has to be treated because it's mixed with puppies. I always like to say we're talking about sewer. So that's what happens. And the other thing we have to deal with what we call is fog which is fat oil and greases which solidifies and we go we do a lot of investigation with that too. As you can see going down the pipe here,

you start seeing all this crud on the inside. You'll see all this floating stuff. That's fat oil and greases. So they stick inside the pipe. It's almost like a concrete. And believe it or not, folks know that um like bacon, everybody knows you don't put bacon grease down there. Whether you have it's okay. The biggest one is actually soaps. If you think about it, a lot of soaps you just, you know, it's it's it's thick. You water it, it cools down, it gets very hard.

So, so Brutus, when you see like that water coming in, Yes. Is that when you schedule to We put a liner inside the lighting. Mayday. Mayday. [laughter] We got Yeah. So, we we line the inside of the pipe. It's called Citro. And they they put it in there. It expands out. It heats. That's the people see the steam, those trucks working through town. Then they cut out everything.

Um storm water. This is a whole another thing. our operating budget and the storm water and basically to say it real fast you know I I think this is ridiculous that you've heard we you know we all remember well you know Franklin we sued EPA you know that right where the talent did yeah you went down

and and and and we won we we we got a lot of concessions through it um it's because it's so freaking expensive it it really is and I always don't see the value in it but right now I mean just put in perspective the phosphorus control plan you can set up They they want us to take 2,000 lbs less of phosphorus putting in a Charles River. That's what basically comes down to. Um just a 5year cost in this alone is $30 million. We're not even close to that. Um we're getting to a point we're going to have to ask for an extension to go forward because we're not going to meet the permits and that was part of what we when we sued EPA. But to give you a rough rough idea, basically right now it's $60.30, you know, per the average unit household, right? we'd have to go to $350. $350 just to meet what they want to do out there. I think we all know that's kind of ridiculous and we can't and that's not just for us. It's it's for any town. Um so that's but that's one of the things looking at the permit. Um so basically it's more frequent street sweeping catch base and maintain or improve our uh infrastructure detention bases new infrastructure and use science to our manage um GIS I put in there because this is a very important tool I mean it's what we do in the past obviously it's very expensive let continuity long response time for updates and always out ofd okay all the stuff that we try to do we really need the GIS to tie everything together uh present we have real- time data We um Kate does a great job with that. We have immediate response for updates and we're efficient and allowed crap collaboration internally and externally. This is a slide that was kind of I found out there but this is I this is sound kind of funny but I think it was back in I don't know 2020 the town actually had extra money you know after thing was all done in May. And so they had all the department heads come in and explain like why do you need it? You know, the police came in, went into the police office, need more safety gear, you know,

fire department, school department, whatever it was. So, I came in here and I thought about it and I want you to think about this. Public works, any other department cannot do their job without us. Okay? You want to put a fire out, you need water. You want to drive down the road, we got to take care of the roads. The kids want to play in the parks, you want to open a school, you need public works, just like everybody else. And I beg for different things and I got nothing. But that's okay. [laughter] That's the truth. But but public works, you know, we touch everything in town. And you know, you've heard me say some of the jokes, no one ever calls and say, "Hey, gee, my drinking water's great today. You know, I flush my toilet." Because you take everything we do for granted, unlike different things that happen immediately. So, it's a long-term type thing. So, additional challenges, we've talked about this before. I think it's everywhere in any department is shortage of workers out there. um outsourcing, getting the right thing, doing that balance of what we want to do internally when externally. Snowplow contractors, you heard about that. We talk about snow plowing. Um the budget that we have about $1.4 million somewhere between five and $400,000, you know, depending on the normal year we have in that normal year. That's the schools because we took over all the schools. They when I first got here, they had their own contract for um you know, snow removal and we're looking to go back to that because just because of organizational typewise, but um that's but I'm just saying that's another part of my budget that goes to the school department just like a lot of departments do.

Um global warming, you know, flooding, extreme events, we all we've [clears throat] been talking about blue in the face. Whether you believe it or don't believe in it, but we have to react towards and it's creating different standards uh out there whether it's flooding or extreme events and then construction costs. They ain't going down, they're going up. So, I want to give you some good stuff, you know? So, we've reconstructed over 80 miles of roadway in town since I've been here. That's a lot of miles. Okay, that's when I'm talking about that's not just the squiggly lines and stuff like that. That's actually reconstructing, grinding the roads, you know, putting a new layer on top of it. Um, we've re rehabilitated and constructed 33 miles of sidewalks. Um, we sacked established a proactive maintenance program to extend a life inspected roadway services from 20 to 40 years. I can show you these different slides. If you don't do nothing, a roadway is going to fail. Okay. Within 20 years, okay. Um, well, we have a great program in town now. We're extending the life expectancy. Now, you know, we start with the crack sealing. We do the chip sealing, do the milling overlay before we get to construction. And we have a pretty good plan with that. Um, good stuff about parks and grounds. We replace two turf grass fields. Um, we create and build two parks. I mean, not a lot of towns are all building parks. You know, we did Delkart and we did a sculpture park. We built a dog park. Um, we create a um a community garden, which I was I'm It's so unusual to me because everybody has a lot of space around here, but people love that community garden. It's worked out really good. And I think you you folks have know that have been town for a long time that I love our town common. I love what we've done up there with the veterans and stuff like that. It's a beautiful common and I think we get a lot of recognition with that. Kids come out really taking a lot of time. I get a little emotional cuz I like the com. Um good stuff. Waterworks. We replaced 45 miles of pipe in the ground. That's a lot because we had a lot of problems. Um we re rehabilitated, rebuilt, improved uh three major water treatment plants. We

reduced our average daily flow from over 70 gallons, you know, per person per day to 46 in 2014. Those are like Boston numbers. What you got to take into consideration with that is the fact is there's not a lot of big lawns. [snorts] That's all averaged into the average daily use. So that we've been able to do that because we've tightened our system up. Um unaccounted for water. If you think about this from 15% to 6 and a half, the water we take out of the ground by time we we have to measure all the water we take out by time it's delivered to everybody's houses. Okay, we lost 15% of that. Well, there's a lot of energy pulling that out. There's a lot of treatment that goes out because the pipes were leaky. Okay, it's not leaky anymore. We've tightened it up. It's, you know, it actually saves money. Sewer. We lined, like I said, 14 million 14 miles of sewer main. We've lined and sealed over 500 manholes. Those manholes would leak water in. And we've reduced our average daily flow to the Charles Riverclusion by 1.2 million gallons a day. It's a lot of water that we're not sending over to that plant, which incurs, we're not treating it, so it costs less money. This is one thing I always hear about the comparison. This is um this is put out by one of the engineering firms. You can put in any town on this on this site. So you look at bill comparison because we hear all the time like our bills are going up and everything else. If you look at our water and sewer bills, we're kind of dead center. Okay, we're we're the average. We really are. If you look at this is the first chart up on the lefth hand side. Um, so we're kind of in the middle. Uh, conservation signal, we're a little better, okay? Because we're conserving water. Cost recovery, we're not that great because we're paying off a lot of debt service for the improvements that we've made. And then this is a very interesting one, the median affordability. What they look at is not only the cost of the water and sewer, they look at the average income of the town. You follow me? And

you can see we're very low on that scale. What I mean by that is, and we looked at different things, is yes, our water rates might be up here, but the average income, I'm not saying everybody, but the average income for Franklin's higher than it might be in Palmer, Mass. You follow me? They're paying the same rates. So, we're actually very, very good on that. So, uh, and I it's like anything else. It's just like you're paying for it. You don't like to pay for it. You want to pay nothing, but there is a cost associated. But I think Franklin shows that we're in a pretty goodstead compared to other communities. Um, planning projects. So, this is the funded cost. We've obviously done the Franklin Ridge booster station. That was a $3.2 million grant. The Well PAS removal 6.5 SRF loans. You guys all know what SRF loans are?

No. So when you when you take a loan out, if you get the SRF, you you get a reduced or no interest on that money borrowed. State revolving fund. It's an acronym. Explain the AC. Good. That's okay. State revolving. It's a state it's a state low interest loan program. Um and uh you get a low and then and then we were a housing choice community. So we actually get a lower interest rate beyond that. Kind of like heat loans for residents. Yeah, exact exactly.

And it saves a lot of money. So these and then you got the the Fischer Street, the Beaver Street interceptor. We got all So we're saving like millions and millions of dollars. The thing right now is most of the state will fall on money is going towards PAS issues. Okay. So they've kind of changed the priority. So I can't say we're going to get those. We've been applying for one right now.

We Yeah, we've been applying for the uh hillside tanks for uh since I've been here for like four years now. um but they haven't hasn't scored high enough because PAS projects uh lead service line projects are all um priority projects right now and the capacity from the state revolving fund just isn't there to fund everything. So there's a really big backlog and whole or need uh for in uh infrastructure um you know replacement um that's outside of just PAS and leaders lines. So, I got a question. God forbid something happens to the tank up. [clears throat] What the hell are we going to do? That's a good question. [clears throat] No, you just don't want to give him the answer.

Yeah, because the answer is bad. The answer is really bad. Yeah. And that's not something we want to see. Um, so obviously like like Brutus said, that map doesn't lie, right? That that was the original water storage tank in the town of Franklin from 1888 1888. The tank next to it was from 1928. Um, yeah, they are both in desperate need of replacement. I understand. I'm just kind of curious what happens. Yeah. Well, you know what? You'd have to come up with a plan. There'd be a lot of pumping out there, which costs a lot of money. The best example I can give you what happened down in Plymouth with their sewer. Oh my god.

And that cost, you know, they had their population actually uses sewer was only like 10,000, but that job was what 60s something million by the end of this. Yeah. [clears throat] I mean, thank thankfully this is all clean water. Um, but obviously you have 1.7 million gallons of of water up there that would just go out. So, it's not the tank itself that concerns me. It's the foundation. It's an old um field stone foundation. We've capped it and it's in in decent shape now. Um, but, you know, all we need is, you know, a good earthquake or something and it uh, you know, it's not built for earthquake design. Yeah, they weren't thinking about that in 1880. Yeah. [clears throat]

And it's high.

So, this is what we basically 64 million barely funded. You know, parking lot improvements, you know, there's some money out there. Roadway improvements, you know, we look at $39 million. Sidewalk improvements, $19 million. Turf fields, carpet fields, you know, looking at 5.4 million. We do have a stabilization fund that, you know, we put money into. and then the roadway improvements like the 39 million but we're only getting 1.7 you know in chapter 90 because there's no additional appropriations um from the town. So Brutus, when you say this is on the other slide too, funded and barely funded roadway improvements at 39 million, that's not funded, right? There's that's why I say barely funded.

There is money. So I can tell you that right now we're going to at least put $1.7 million into that basically projected chapter 90 money, right? But this but stuff keeps deteriorating and it we used to have supplemental money. So there is money in it but there's not money to make the improvements as required or so best case we'd want 39 million not now but over a period of time right okay then we get completely unfunded there's nothing out here for $85 million

that'd be the storm water okay that's our 88 transition plan um closing the landfill recycling center the quiet zones water main replacement road improvement that we've identified is 12. Water tank improvement another 12 and Pleasant Street service area improvements to you know get everything so we don't have that problem where it's isolated with those tanks is you know 5.5. So these are ones that been working at town. These are my five biggest threats out there right now. And obviously it's it's it's the roadways because without continued funding supplemental we're just going to slowly go downhill. Okay. We're going to be at a D and road costs are going to go up. I think I explained to you like we already started talking about plan which we're going to crack some little chips because we're trying to extend that but we still need to do more than that and if we don't keep doing that stuff it's just going to get [clears throat] worse and worse and then we really have bad roads. Uh water lines these are some good pictures you know iron and manganesees comes out but these are what we take out right at the plants and you can see how much iron and manganesees we have in the system. Um, when I first got here in free 205, there was 40 on average 45 water main breaks a day. I mean, a year, which is a lot. It's almost like once a week. Like Pine Street blew up last week. That was happening all the time. And we're averaging about four a year now. And most of them are not the big catastrophic pipe breaking. It's the service line blowing off the side. This is one that absolutely I'll tell you through experience it fries me is that we have it's called a saddle that goes on the side and it's wrapped around stainless steel and they you know they paid extra for the stainless steel to make this last. You know what they put in the backhand side?

A regular bolt so the bolt pops. You could reuse that style again. Looks almost brand new but the bolt in the back pulls and it blows out the side of the pipe. So they didn't buy a stainless steel bolt. Stainless steel bolt. Yeah. But that's one of the things. And then so without continue water replacement brakes to increase water quality, you know, different things, the iron manganesees and then the galvanized pipes that a lot of older places have that come in. The federal government's talking about that about how they're going to do it, but there's actually no funding for it right now. The the just the road work, just so I don't know if you guys all remember, I don't know if it was here, we did have a override. We put we put an override out, I forget what 2014 for 1.5 million.

Yeah. And uh it got voted down [clears throat] bad. Yeah. Real bad. Like eight to one, right? Something like that. If it was that bad, but it was it was like 6040. 60. It was bad though. It was much worse than the two the last two years for sure. The story I always tell about that was that uh I was talking to Carlos about it. We had spent a lot of time coming up with, you know, to try to sell it. And we tried to look at a different town and, you know, touch different places. So, everybody got a little bit of love, you know, because it's a political type thing.

And I remember Carlos going to me, he's like, "Boss, didn't happen. What are we going to do?" I said, "Well, the five-year plan's now a 20-year plan. I have to tell you, but it's the same road. You're just going to keep going. Just going to get take longer to get done and become more expensive." More expensive. No. 8 to three. 8 to three. Yeah. 8 to three. Was that right? Whatever fraction that is. Steve just pulled up. Yeah.

So, this one, you know, storm water the compliance with with the with the nifty's permit and so non-compliance could result in a, you know, consent decree. And that's what happened in Quincy. So, because they didn't meet their storm water, they got a $150,000 fine. And then they were told they have to spend $100 million by 2034. So Quincy, you know, they're about 100,000 people, so they're like three times as big as that. They're basically saying, you know, we have to spend $30 million and get this done. If you want to put in perspective, it's um it's uh you don't want to be in a consent decree. So, but that could happen. But then again, who knows what's going on with EPA, how much they're going to enforce with politically right now. I I don't know.

Other towns must have the same problems. Yeah. Okay. Everybody does. Yep. Um, landfill recycling center. Once again, timely action avoids. We don't know what's going to happen. State imposed costs on that, but we we got to do something with the landfill. It's been it's been out there for 20 plus years. So, this was a comment by a previous council. This is most existential threat facing Franklin, these uh these improvements, these long-term things, and the costs associated with. So, um me and my staff can hopefully answer any questions. I try to go through this really fast. You did good, D. Yeah, it's pretty fast. We'll start the same way. Council Mallaloy.

Um, I had some questions just in terms of where some of the items were in our budget. Um, a lot of this stuff looks like it adds up and and runs through enterprise funds, but then there were other questions or other comments I probably should have asked you as we were going along. Not that big a deal. I think I can kind of figure it out. Um, so I I think I'm okay for right now. We can we can leave that be. But I guess just with the enterprise funds generally, it looks like sewer, water, storm water, all of that. And maybe this is more for Jamie just generally our realization on the enterprise funds. I mean, are we collecting I'm sure it's not 100% of what those enterprise funds cost us, but you know, how close to that number are we getting?

I would um I would have to defer to the treasurer collector, but both with in this question just came up the other day. Someone asked me this. Um I would say of all our enterprise funds, you know, there's a 14%, you know, levy that goes on unpaid bills for taxes and those things. um we don't make very much money on that interest. Um the um collection rate is extraordinarily high um on water, sewer, and trash bills and taxes. I mean, I hate to say 99%, but um it's a fraction of what we put out there. People are very very good with complying with paying their bills. Um very very high. But just in terms of

in terms of it's not a it's not a problem that's escalated up to me where we have to come to you and do something to try to incentivize people paying. Um you know my 10 plus years here it's never been a problem where anyone's come to me from the treasur's office or I don't think for you guys either but in one house we turn water off. Yeah. And that was like for years because they weren't paying nothing and then the bank had so it was more taking. Every once in a while there's like a foreclosure tax title problem, but those are pretty rare. Um, I guess my question is more more broad in terms of like water, you know, I think for this current budget, it's like $8.1 million,

but that includes salary expenses, cops, principal, and interest, you know, are we getting close to that 8.1 million in receipts as people are paying their bills? It's a great Okay, I see what you're saying. We're over that. And so the retained earnings are money that wasn't budgeted, wasn't used, retained earnings is just like free cash. But I also want to caution even in a year of retained earnings and I think in the capital plan that you'll see which is already out there for FINCOM but will be in the packet on February 11th um it can eb and flow right I mean if it's a dry year and we're fewer people are watering then there's less money um

you know that comes in or the inverse right I mean so it's

based on usage and we're essentially required through our water management act permit to incentivize charging on a tiered system where the high users particularly basically for irrigation and pools is really what you're talking about here. Um for large lots, they're paying at a higher rate because they're consuming a lot more of of water. And that's a unique feature to Franklin because we're [cough and clears throat] part of the triadic approach. A little bit of an inside joke, but um because we're a 100% groundwater fed community, right? No MD MW emergency. There's no other source. So we're a pure groundwater community. And because we're a pure groundwater community, that's why we have the water conservation day on Wednesdays. You know, people consider it a ban, but it's not a ban. Um, and that's also, um, why we have a tiered system of rate structures. So, some years, uh, we have a high retained earnings and we're able to put more into capital. Um, and some years we're not. The last thing I'll say on the um in terms of collecting the money, um you know, we used to pay off our water main program with cash every year. We would actually never borrow the money and we would never pay interest, which was actually a fiscally prudent thing to do because we hate paying interest. We don't need to. But since the pandemic and all that federal stimulus money that came in, that federal stimulus money basically paid for a lot of that five-year water main plan. But it kind of got all off cycle with the supply chain issues, the cost increases, and um at some point on the goals, there'll probably be a goal of trying to get back into a rhythm of a five-year water main plan so that residents can see what's coming up in their neighborhood because as Brutus said, once they know the water man is coming, then they know the road is coming.

There's a new road, right? There's a new road, right? I mean, that was always the That was a great way to do it. But um we're always meeting those benchmarks in terms of receipts. We've generally been moderate to conservative with our budgetary projections um for that reason because if you do go into a drought year, especially a level three where the state mandates a whole bunch of stuff, you know, we don't want to be in any deficits. So, and we tried over the years to build up the reserve a little bit. Used to be a million bucks, but now we try to save 1.5 million. And that's also important to have um in terms of the collections because like if for the residents that live over off Prospect Street, I know Consuel Blank would know this. Was it last year or two years ago? We had a literal emergency that we had to go in

right near his house. It was right near his house, right? Yeah. I was going to say it was a severe problem where we had to close the road and um and uh we had to spend what was like $300 or $400,000 in an emergency road um uh culvert. So, so when receipts come in, it's not just the budget. We're also trying to make sure you have that cushion for those emergency projects. Okay. All right. I appreciate it. Thanks. You [clears throat] you good? All set. Thank you.

Um I don't have I I don't have a lot. Just just two comments. I wanted to just highlight two of the slides that you that you shared and you know, first off, appreciate the the uh the presentation. had a chance to look at it over the weekend. Um, really helpful, really informative, is in line with with a lot of what I've seen and kind of what I expected. Uh, two slides that I did want to just draw people's attention to. One is the bubble slide um, you know, with both public works and how it touches and impacts so many parts of this community and how important it is um, you know, for it for it to do that. I think that's that's one and I think your instinct was right in creating that. Um but but that's one that really should get more more light, more more attention uh because of just the the impact it has on the community. So

thank you. Um, that's one. The other slide I I want to come back to that I think is really helpful, just informative, uh, and speaks to some of the questions that I that I think people have, um, I just and don't have a ton of visibility in is your one with the radio dials, uh, you know, and the map, the select residential bill and month of consumption amount just showing where Franklin sits. You people wonder where are my what am I spending money on? I'm like, where's where's my money going? Um, this slide, I don't I don't know if there's a link to it or people kind but it's really really informative and helpful. Uh, it'd be wonderful if this was something that uh you know pe we could see as it gets updated if people could kind of point to uh when they have questions or just just you trying to figure out what what's happening here.

Yeah, it's open. I I can add a I can add a link on our our water rate uh website. I think that would be fantastic. that I was going to suggest is a link on the on the

and there's so many different way I mean data is there right and there's so many different ways you can slice and dice it. So this one you can see it's just we're looking at um we're comparing against utilities that have similar uh amount of accounts. So anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000 accounts. Franklin has uh almost 10,000. We're like suggestion with it is is because there's so many different ways you can you compare it. it's going to be really difficult for someone to kind of go in and and have, you know, and know that they're looking at the right comparison. So, kind of seeding that with, hey, this is the standard that we look at for Franklin because it's the best fit. There are other, you know, and letting people know that there are other ways to manipulate so they can look too. But

yeah, I'm I'm a believer that more information is better than less in general. Sure. Uh and and people can educate themselves as long as they're willing to go do the work. But having this out there for them um is is a really healthy and helpful snapshot as they ask they wonder where's my money going. Yep. No, definitely that's a good point. We can add that to the website. That's all.

All right. Um I have just a couple comments and then probably some dumb questions. But um so first of all, thank you for this. This is the kind of presentation that I wish we could put every single person in Franklin into the room to listen to because, you know, we're I mean, we are all affected by the roads and by the water and um by our sewer system and um if they go, we're all in trouble and um and and we all need to be aware of, you know, if we're not giving the town the money that they need that we need to fix these issues, then um we're all going to in trouble down the road. So, um, thank you very much for this. I I this is what I want to be, you know, very visual or very out there for the town to see. Um, but I do have a couple of questions. In the meantime, while we don't have the money to fix all of these things, um, I I know you said that you don't want to raise the fees of like the recycling center. It's been $35 forever. Um, you know, if if we raised it to 50, that'd be less than a dollar a week for people to take their trash. I mean, that seems like a lot, but it also goes that feels like it would go a long way to, you know, um, offsetting even the operating costs for the recycling center. And if that's already figured out, then we could put a little bit away for I mean, it would just be a little bit, but put a little way a little bit away each year towards the um cost of capping the um the old landfill or you know um figuring that out, something like that. Um I know no one likes to raise fees, but it it feels like that would be a way to tackle it just a little bit. And one thing I will tell you when I got here the average trash you they charge residents $400 a year.

This 23 years ago when we went we were down below 200 at one time because of innovation because of getting grants and everything else. So when people always say everything goes up I can tell you trash hasn't and it really hasn't. But, you know, I I got to give the residents credit for that, for doing it because they really took under the wing. And, you know, we were one of the, you know, everybody does the um co-mingled mix now, recycling everything, but we were, I think, the second or third town to try it and there was push back against it because, you know, how we're going to do it, but um it has saved the town or residents, the users I should say, um, a lot of money. So, and that's kind of where we're at now. We we don't like to raise I really don't I mean but you know we have to maintain it the best we can do.

Carol, can I just jump in with a question because it'll save a question later because it's on the same topic. But does Beaver Street pay for itself? Uh last year it did. Okay. Just the recycling center. Don't think the whole trash not the whole but the recycling center. Yes. Yes. The recycling center because because we did and you know I was part of the trash committee recycling committee. We made recommendations and one of the things was that Beaver Street going forward should be always be a break even. So that if the fees go up at Beaver Street then I mean if the if the cost goes up at Beaver Street then the fee should go up to cover it. This a lot of stuff that we get rid of is is so volatile up there like

like we lose money on some things like cardboard we're making a lot of money on. I do I just wanted to make one point. Derek Adams, environmental affairs coordinator is another aspect of this is we apply for a grant every year, the sustainable material recovery program. And we always get funding from that. And for a number of years, we were able to bank some of it because of the commodities market because some things cost money and some things don't. And um the issue is currently that one of the issues that we're facing right now is that Mass D wanted to see those funds spent down in order to make you eligible for the next year's round.

So for the last two years we've gone from $30,000 to $0 because the last thing I want to do is be ineligible for a grant because we're holding on to too much money. Plus, after co the com the quantity that we've been getting up there has been significant significantly more than in the past. Um, and additionally with the mattress ban that came in, just another thing that went from $10 to $65. So, in considering raising the fee, we also have to consider that we don't have that buffer zone for that grant. We will be getting that grant money every year, but instead of having 40,000 in there, it's it's now zero. So, I just wanted to bring that point up to keep that in mind. because we [clears throat] do try to keep cost low. We try very hard and part of the way of doing that was using some grant funds to supplement it every single year and that option is reduced at this point.

Thank you Caroline. I have one more probably dumb question. So, um, as you were talking about the, um, the water pipes and how you have this beautiful stainless steel pipes and but a regular bolt and how [clears throat] that keeps popping off. What is the cost? Can we just replace the bolts? Can we put stainless steel bolts on those? So then like instead of that would be really really expensive. We needed a big hole to to get them in. Okay. All right. So, it's not just buy a new bolt that fits it and [laughter] Well, I wasn't thinking this, but like how about Gorilla Glue? All right. All right. [laughter]

Okay. So, so you're saying it's far less expensive to keep replacing this, fixing it. Is it? Yeah. Well, the most of the pipes that are on it, it's called AC pipe. Okay. It's a trans I it's as best as concrete. Okay. They use a bestas in the concrete to hold together. So even that's a handling fee. So even when we take the pipe, we never take it out of the ground. We keep it in the ground because then you have to deal as a hazardous waste. But that's the pipe.

It was very popular after they came up like World War II because they need steel for everything else. So they came up with this and it's not a bad pipe inside because it doesn't hold a it doesn't break down, but it gets really soft and punky and when you have a high groundwater table. So that's why it's failing a lot. Sorry. Thank you. I said they were dumb questions and a lot of a lot of roots can grow through a lot of roots can grow through Yeah. the suicide. Yeah. On the suicide. Yeah. So that's that's But go ahead.

I love when you guys come, but it always makes me really depressed, right? Like I I love talking about this stuff, you know? I'm like your your DPW champion, right? I'm the one that's always trying to find a way to talk about sidewalks and talk about roads and talk about water and all this other stuff, but there's no money. There's no money. And I guess the only good thing happening at the federal level is there's probably not going to be an EPA, so we don't have to worry about the the challenges that you got. You know, just give that a couple more months and that'll just be gone. Um, it's the one thing we can say, okay, some something could happen.

Um, the world's going to blow up, but something could happen. But I I I still hold true to my previous statements though that I think if you want to move toward an environment of public trust and you want to move toward an environment where people feel like their tax dollars are going and being spent in the right places that we as a town and as a council and with you guys help, we need to continue to educate so that people see more from the budget. Right. Like cuz I think if somebody it's just a mentality thing, right? When somebody looks out and they see, oh, the town's out here working on my sidewalk. Oh, the town's out here working on my road. Oh, the town's fixing my kids school. The town's fixing where my kids play. It's a little switch goes off, right? And says, "Oh, all right. That's my tax dollars at work." Where they don't see that. They don't get that same feelgood with personnel. they don't get that same feelood with a lot of stuff in the budget. So, but when there's no money, there's no money, right? So, we have to just continue to chip away at it. Um, and I think show the public, yeah, you know what? Like a lot of these feelood stories, like, yes, we did make investments in your roads and sidewalks. It may not be where we want it to be, but it's getting there. We've made investments in water and sewer and all these other things cuz people's basic expectations, right? I I I want to be able to have clean drinking water. I want to be able to have a road to drive on so I can go to work. I want my kids to walk to school. Like all these things we think of as a basic needs, but they're so expensive.

Um and we live in one of the most expensive states in the country. I think we're like in the top five. And I just saw on the news that there is still a gigantic group of people leaving even though we got people coming. We got a lot of people leaving and it's expense related. So, we have to be really careful about what we charge people for stuff because people are at they're at a breaking point. They, you know,

I just I totally agree with you. What what we grapple with in public works and, you know, use recent things is when the budget comes up, we're not the police department, so you know, they lose the SRFO officers or the ambulance or the school department when they cut the Latin program or, you know, whatever. You know, our stuff is it's not instantaneous. It's it's it's the slow slow things of the roads start filling slowly over time. Our water quality we have issues slowly. It doesn't you're not going to see it you know if you don't give a budget it's not going to change on July 1st. You know it's going to it might be four or five years down the road we start seeing it.

I just you have been a great advocate councelor Coredra on the infrastructure. I think the gap I'd like to try to close with the public is you can't do the bleachers without people. You know, I agree with you on your sentiments. I think that reflects a lot of folks. AI is not plowing our streets of ice and snow yet and won't be for a long time, right? Thank God. Yeah.

Well, maybe those Whimos will come in with plows someday. I mean, they do work pretty good, but you know, I I think you still need, you know, personnel is capital. You know, we've talked about this many times and and I agree. I think the public seems to have this slightly higher animosity towards the personnel issue versus what they can see and feel and touch and see my tax dollars at work. But we also need, you know, people to do that work. I mean, when people see the the DPW team and one of the things that's rare about our team is a lot of our guys on our teams actually do do the work, right?

You know, we actually really have paramedics that show up at your house, not a contracted service, right? So, um I think hopefully through this budget process this year, we can try to educate people a little bit more that, you know, we want to do more work. We don't have any money, but we also need the people and there needs to be some sort of balance between the two. I know you understand it. It's tough to It's tough to talk to people about that stuff, you know. We love building stuff. Yeah, we do. We do a lot more in-house than most towns, you know, which is a point of pride for I think every particularly parks. Um, you know, particularly the common, particularly the sidewalk work. I know you've seen it yourself. So,

yeah. I mean, people when they visit Franklin, they're always complimentary of our parks. Yeah. Of our common, of our buildings, right? like they they they they do they look at the playgrounds, they look at our sports fields and they're like, "My god, these are some of the best in the state." And that's a source of it's a source of pride, right? It is. But then, you know, last summer we had some issues because we had to let uh kids go that would have normally picked up the trash, right? So, like, okay. So, there's a there's a there's a reality to these

budget challenges is is what I'm saying. And I but I don't think especially now at 9:30 at we've only got 10 people left watching and um you know we spend more time grilling two people on ZBA than we're going to spend talking about the DPW. It's a good point,

right? Like and this stuff needs real leadership and needs real solutions and needs real money. And I don't know where it's all going to come from, but I'm I'm proud of you guys. I've always I tell you that all the time, right? I text you that and thank you all the time because I mean it. But at the same time, we got to start filling some of these holes or we're going to be in a really, really big problem in five years, right? Where we're like, okay, we've got major emergencies with roads and water lines and sewer lines and water containers and you know what? the state does come calling on that PAS thing or you know what are we going to do just put our hands up and say I'm sorry we don't have the money well that's not going to fly right so we just got to keep chipping away at it and I think as we in two weeks when we do look at the capital free cash program I know for me a a lot of that has to go to the things that you guys prioritize it just has to we're not we're just at a point when we can't we can't look at some of these requests and say, "Yeah, that that's a that's a want, not a need."

And that's going to be very unpopular for all of us to have to look at our neighbors and our friends and colleagues on other committees and say, "I'm sorry, but this just isn't the year for you to make that request to us because we've got to put money in savings to try to hopefully get through this next cycle. and we also need to make some huge priorities to DPW. Um, but thank you for all you do. Thank you for somehow making lemonade out of a couple of lousy lemons and uh, you know, appreciate all that you guys do. Well, thank you for your support. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Next.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I actually take issue with the comments that we have no solutions and that we don't have any money. uh in regards to you know I think it's important to be fiscally responsible but at the same time this council has a very obvious solution which is to uh factor water capital expenses into its rates and it's been a conscious effort by this council in the past not to fund those rates at the levels that are adequate to fund the DPW. Um, you know, there are things like roads and sidewalks uh that yes, they have to be funded by the general fund, but the enterprise fund uh is funded by water rates, sewer rates, storm water fees, and those are all things that we have the ability and the choice to allocate money towards,

and we're choosing not to. So, I I urge us to take a look in the mirror and uh think about what our priorities are. And it's actually a very fiscally responsible thing to actually look at the long-term investments. If we don't fund these things, what is the cost of that? Then we're we're pushing down the cost, multiplying it many years down the line by not funding some of these water improvements and sewer improvements. That's not fiscally responsible. So I I actually urge the town administrator and the DPW to actually work towards uh goal S uh CSF3 one uh point uh 3.1A factoring what are capital expenses into rates. and you DPW has my full support in terms of making sure that they could get these things funded. It might have to be gradual. It might not have to be as fast as we like, but I I do think we need to make these improvements. So, thank you. Uh I do have some questions before I forget. This could be like rapid fire, like just a sentence for each question. You ready for this?

Okay. Okay. I'll try. [laughter] Uh could drainage for sidewalks be funded with storm water fees? Drainage for sidewalk. So, you said you said that when you do the sidewalks, you need to put drainage equipment in there. Yes. So that can be funded by storm water fees. Yes. Okay. Uh can trash bin fees legally be used to funds capping the landfill or is it a separate account? Separate. Separate. And then the same thing for the recycling center fees. Can they be used for capping the landfill? Um we could use some of the fees to make the recycling center there, but the actual capping probably not.

Okay. Um and what percentage of our uh I I uh I've already answered the question. Is the town eligible for its own storm water credits on its property? Is it utilizing all the conservation credit incentives it's eligible to receive? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, we actually have storm water bins on our property that can get the credits. Okay. Good to know. Um, is it possible for the uh recycling center offer shredding services? Uh I guess we could

typically that's a service that comes in for a day or a week. Um and it would just that is there's a number of different things that we look at that we could bring in. That is one. Typically they reach out to me and it's just hasn't been in the budget. Um but that's something I can look at further and and see if we can swing it for either this fiscal year or next fiscal year. But it's typically a third party that will come in for a day, sort of an event, if you will. credit or anybody. Yep. And I know the senior center has it too, so don't step on their toes, but I was just curious if something would be more something we can look at for sure. Um, is it possible to opt in for a smaller bin for a trash for a lower trash rate? Yep, we have that already. We have that already. Does people know about it? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Um, can out of town people use the recycling center for a higher rate? We've never looked at that. I wouldn't think it would be. We we the one thing that we do do is we have a reciprocal agreement for hazardous waste. So other time like if you're moving out and you're I don't know field you can come over here but our folks can go over there too. So we we do that. We do charge to fee for that.

I think you would I think you would um we'd have to look into that a little closer. Um, you know, but I would say right now with the capacity of where the station's at, it probably wouldn't work out from a volume because I don't know how you'd say how many people would be let in. It'd almost be like, okay, 100 people. But I would say that when the town in the future considers the lining of [cough and clears throat] the tap and the vision was always to generate a state-of-the-art recycling center, that's something that could be analyzed when that project goes through for sure and see if that's if that's available. Excellent. Done. Uh is it possible to get picnic tables for the common? Yeah.

Okay. Because it's just there's no place to socialize. It's everyone lives the benches. That'd be great if if it's something that makes, you know, sense for the town. Um, could you advertise the community associate assistance program with the water bill? I think we do one once a year. Yeah, it's you can't put the whole thing in because then the weight of the mailing that goes out, but we do a what is it called? A bill slip. Some other verbs. Some sort of slip. Thank you. Thank you, Kate. Yeah, congratulations. You survived the lightning round. [laughter]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh the only other thing I would say is uh Max is correct. You can fund capital programs through water and sewer rates. Um the uh one clause I would say is is I think uh we have raised water and sewer rates quite a bit the last several years because of the Beaver Street interceptor and water rates because of the cost of everything going up. I think that is a part of the story with the finances and why um people feel the tightening of the belt, right? They're feeling it all at home with groceries, electricity, with everything. But then also water and sewer are going up. And they may be for good reasons, right? I mean, nobody wants to pay the sewer rate that's five times what they're paying now when we have a blown out pipe with not being able to flush toilets, right? That's a worse problem and more expensive. But it's still for the average taxpayer. you know, water rates are going up this fiscal year coming up in FY27 and then after that it stays stagnant. Sewer rates, I think, are going up for two more years for to pay for the interceptor. So, I just wanted to make sure that was clear. Thank you.

Okay. Okay. I got a few things because, you know, I like to be challenging. Okay. All right. So, first thing was on your storm water. Okay. Um, you [snorts] referenced the Quincy example. Yes.

But I was on looked at the EPA link and it actually for their civil penalty it was 115,000. Um, and that was because they were untreated. They had untreated sewage that was being discharged into the Boston Harbor, Neponzit River and various other bodies of water. The 100 million that you were mentioning was the cost for the remedy. Quincy is implementing to reduce the untreated sewage from entering the body of water mentioned. But at the finance committee at the FINCOM meeting, sorry it's late fin meeting um it's my understanding that work at our current capacity and infrastructure we're in a good position to support our town. So there that really isn't an accurate comparison.

They are to what what Quincy was dealing with what we took care of a long time ago is the storm water was combined with the sewers. So during high flood events they would mix together kind of what um they had to do in Boston type thing but it it is all storm water but and they were under a consent decree to do that. Our permit they were dealing with sewer. If you look at the Cape, they're dealing with nitrogen. We're dealing with phosphorus with our permit. So, we have to um address it. It's a different issue. It's like down the cave. You see down the cave, they're dealing with nitrogen issues because they're sending out too much nitrogen. They're getting too much algae blooms down there. That's what they're dealing with in in the storm water.

In the storm water. So, our storm water, we're dealing with phosphorus. I'm just trying to say we're getting behind there and we don't want to get fined because they could fine us if they want to and then they actually get to a point they tell us how much money we have to spend and how we have to do it. Okay. I just wanted to try to clarify this. Um good point. Um I know you touched on the the storm water fee. Mhm. Please tell me you're not suggesting that we raise it to $350 though.

No. And I am on record. You know, people like on social media, they call like my fee, the rain fee. No, I'm just providing you the information. We fought that the whole way down in DC. EPA will tell you right up. It's our we tell you what needs to be done. It's not our job to figure out how to fund it. Talk to MVO. Talk to talk to Congress. They're the ones to tell you how to fund it. So, no, I do. I'm just saying I saw that and I was like, "Oh, no." cuz I was at the original meetings back in I don't even know when 2020 21. Yeah. And I was at that mic a lot. Yeah. So I was like and everyone's like it's going to be minimal. Okay. And then I see 350. I'm like that is far from minimal.

I think it's asite and I'll tell you that because well I think I should get a credit and everybody else in this town should get a credit when we flood and we store the storm water in our basements because mine didn't go out into any pvious area. It was on my floor. Okay. So, where's my credit? I have to call the EPA. EPA.

I I I'll make one point for the um consent decree in Quinsey versus Franklin. I would just say it kind of all ties together where the 350 which is an average for the single family home in Franklin would cover the amount of work that we would have needed to do to be in one essentially 100% complete compliance with a five just the five-year plan. This is really a 20-year plan but just that first five-year chunk. So in in a lot of ways with direction from Jamie and Brutus and a collaborative ef effort from everybody in a lot of ways my job and our job is to make sure the town doesn't get sued. I'm very confident that the work that we do is sufficient enough where if the EPA happen to come down and say crack open the books, show us what you're doing, how much and then I say we're we have this pot of money. This is the work we're doing. It's literally everything we can do. I'm confident that we're in good shape. But on paper, when we submit our annual report, they look at the PCP that we submitted 5 years ago, that was our plan. We said, "We're going to do this. [cough and clears throat] We're not collecting the revenue to complete that work." But I still am confident that we're doing everything we can where if they came in that we would not be in a situation that another community is in. Um, but that's where those two things kind of tie in together.

Okay. Do we still have a storm water subcommittee? Just curious. No. No. Are we doing one or no? No. Okay. Um All right. So, the next might not be as painful. Um what am I talking? The phosphorus plan. So, you're saying it's 30 million to implement the five-year plan. That's what we're in right now, right? We're in year eight right now. There's a I I know it's confusing. There's a lot of different timelines that they give us to do. So, so, but is the 30 million just for that first five years or like

correct? That's [clears throat] what we would have need to spend. I think it was like approximately 4.75 million for five consecutive years, which that funding would have largely gone to new construction projects, which would opens up a whole another can of worms. Do we have the land? Do we have the space for? So, that money would have been allocated to that. We collect just over a million dollars, which is awesome. and great and we are I think we're doing a really good job sweeping the roads and cleaning the catch basins and all of that but that's where the disconnect comes in. Okay. So each year we're about $4 million behind to use generalized round numbers.

So is it almost like 30 million for every 5 years is basically what it out to be. I know it's not a game, but this is the fun game we have to play with the EPA because every five years they issue us a new permit and I don't know if they're going to they it's been two two years we're waiting to get the report that they were supposed the the new rules and regulations, if you will. Unless they get taken away, we'll hope it at least just stays what it is right now and they don't get more aggressive. They might say you need to test all of your outfalls for Well, there is caffeine. I you know, I don't know. like we we have to wait to see what they're bringing us for the future years.

Okay. Then um one more little question and then two little statements. This page right here. Okay. I'm trying to understand. So if I go down to the bottom with the 20 and we just go at the bottom one, we have 24 95.3 pounds of phosphorus.

Yes. If you want a v a v a quick visual for that. Basically why phosphorus is a big reason for us is the leaves fall on the road, the cars drive over the leaves, the rain comes, it washes the leaves into the catch basins on the side of the road. When additional rain comes, it's think of it as tea. Basically, those leaves leech phosphorus and then that phosphorus eventually gets discharged into the environment. That's that's what the that's what the EPA is telling us what we need to remove to to reduce algae blooms in the Charles River to remove something that naturally occurs. That is correct. I'm on record telling we could rake the state forest. Would we get credit for that? We would.

But now on this slide, so if I'm correct, we already take out 362.8. So by 20 years, we're supposed to have removed an additional 2132.5. Is that the way I'm reading this? Like that's what we still have to figure out how to get rid of. That is the gap. The the ultimate end goal is the 2,132 pounds. And we're we're we're not hitting our targets for that because that is the construction.

Artificial trees. what they like to see is the detention basin is what is is what they like to see. Um so the detention basin is a shallow bowl that collects the storm water. It gives it an area for the water to permeate back into the ground. Any overflow does overflow, but that's what they want to see. And that does tie into our water program because we have wells. So we do want the water to stay here instead of go to a river which goes to a river which goes to the Charles River. So it does make sense. But that I I do agree with Brutus. The timeline is rather aggressive.

Okay. Now, a couple more questions. Very very easy. One with the storm water process. I don't know if anybody else would be interested, but can I get a tour to see how you do it just so I have better understanding because I get what you're saying, but visuals work better for me. Sure. Perfect. I will email you. Um the I wanted to touch on roads and I know I've said this before and I didn't say it as a counselor I said as a resident but many many many many moons ago excise tax was collected specifically for roads somewhere along the line everybody changed that not just in Franklin just like everywhere

why can't we have the excise tax be specifically for like road and sidewalk maintenance because you bring in about so I know Mr. Drico is a big fan of this and I know Joel has been lobbying me and Jeff Roy for many years for the state to raise the excise tax. Right. So the state has to raise the excise tax in order to bring in more revenue to go towards roads in terms of the 6 million in excise tax we have. I don't ever believe that was the case because there's never been in my 10 years here plus years and I can't speak to the early 2000s when Jeff was TA or It was before definitely before you

well then the excise tax if it was 20 years ago or 25 years ago it was probably 3 million in excise tax money or what you know whatever it's 6 million today right so if you go back 20 years I'm just I'm just guessing it was maybe only 2 or 3 million um I think that was a metaphor the previous town manager said as a cause and effect but it never really it's not like the town of Franklin ever had 2 or3 million in its budget. I don't think the town of Franklin ever had a million dollars in its actual operating budget towards road and maintenance. The the overwhelming majority of road work that's been done in town has been through chapter 90 money through state through the state allocation. We've been extremely aggressive with grants and going out to Mass Works grants like the Grove Street project is a great example of that. Um there was definitely a lot of mitigation money put forth during planning board decisions. Um I think a million dollars of the cannabis money we got maybe six years ago from host community agreements went towards roads. So it's always been this patchwork. I would need to dig back in the records or maybe Mr. Jico can send me an email. I don't ever recall. I could be wrong, but at least in the 10 or 15 years of history that I'm pretty familiar with in Franklin, we've never had there's never been what we did do and consular Delloro remmens this reminds this is hotel tax money was usually left off budget for many years and then whatever money the state distributed to us,

the council would always approve the hotel revenue for that year towards roads towards and that and that was That was the case up until the pandemic. I mean, yeah, I don't know about So, the hotel tax is true. We did use that money for roads, but I I don't think the excise tax was exclusively dedicated towards roads. It's always been a local receipt general fund appropriation. Okay. Yeah. No, I don't know what um um Joel Derico was saying. I'm going by um honestly when my mom was alive, this is something that she dealt with when she was on counsel and everything like that. Is that I don't know. I was 80s. I was a teenager. Well, just give me a ball. I don't know. I was a teenager. 90s maybe early '9s.

Okay. So, that may have been that may have been the message that Wolf Gang or somebody gave back then and said, "Well, you know, we're making a million dollars in excise tax money. We put it towards roads." But it has never been a dollar for dollar. It's not like the excise tax. So, if you did that today, right? So, say you took the six million in excise tax money and say the council said, "We want to dedicate that six million exclusively to roads, right?" You would make a big dent in this, but you'd have to cut $6 million worth of services elsewhere to go pay for this. Does that make sense? Yes.

Okay. So, I'm going to take an educated guess that's going to be pretty hard to do. Um, so at this point, it is what it is. And now in the budget proposal coming up in FY27, this is actually pathetic, but I think we have in the budget model $175,000 of town tax money that goes towards road and sidewalk maintenance and construction. That's that's pathetic. That doesn't even pave one road. That maybe gets you some small projects on sidewalks, maybe some chip seal contract. um cracks

crack [clears throat] it it gets you almost nothing. Uh a few years ago uh we did have 600,000 in the budget to help supplement um the the state chapter 90 money but all that roads money has been cut in the last couple years from the over from obviously the failed overrides. Um, so you know, I mean at some point you have to make choices and we've cut, you know, the DPW across the board with tree trimming, crosswalk painting, summer help, trash cans, trash pickup. I mean, it's just been across the board. Um, consultants, engineering designs. I mean, we've pretty much maintenance. I mean, so, um, you know, I don't know what, you know, what happened back in the 90s, but I think, you know, that was 30 or 40 years ago. It's just not the reality anymore. I just was wondering if it's something that we could look into.

Yeah, you you could and I'm I'm just saying it like we collect about six million a year in excise tax now. You'd have to cut 6 million somewhere else and put it towards roads. Okay. And then just the last statement um and only because you're sitting here and it has nothing to do with your presentation. Okay. Um, we're supposed to get a lot of snow, 12 to 18 inches. And I promised I I replied to uh Brutus's email because we're having the parking issue and they had what 30 would you say 25 35 30 about 35 to 40

cars and that are still parking on the road. So, I think that we either a need to just consider doing a full-on band again or if you're a second time offender, it's like a $100 ticket because at this point, you're costing the town money when they have to deal with those cars that are on the road that are not supposed to be. Somebody's going to get hurt or propertyy's going to end up getting damaged because a plow truck's going to go down with that kind of snow. They might not even see a car cuz it could just look like a pile of snow and they're going to get hit. So, we're going to either slam those tickets and get an increase or we go on to a full-on ban because if you can't follow the rules, then you will suffer the consequences.

Sounds good to me. Sorry, if I can follow Go ahead. Um, do we have [laughter] a do we have a way to uh I don't know. Send out Sorry. Oh, god. I I know where you're going. Yeah. to send out, you know, an alert. A robocall or something. Yes. I rooc calls are a divisive issue. We will send out as many rooc calls as you guys want. Here's the problem with robocalls. You will get 20 times more complaints.

And we actually see after every robocall, we find dozens of people say, "I don't want this. Why am I on this? Get me off." and the chiefs and and the chiefs and Brutus and probably the emergency response folks, you know, with water and sewer will tell you, especially the chiefs, that you don't want to keep losing people off the roocall lists. And I know it sounds crazy. I know, but I'm I'm just telling you, we get we all get complaints after every robocall. If there was a bank robbery, get me off the list. I don't want to get your calls anymore. Um, I mean they just people I don't know how to explain it. We hear from people that complain about communication. We have a very good system we use with the all of us work the same. The schools use the same system. It's worked very well. Um, people hate them and then they I I don't know where the delta is on all stuff, but if you guys want to promote and give us the backing

and tell us you want us to give more robocall, I'm It just feels like it's cheaper to send out a notice when we're aware of a snowstorm to say, "No, I agree. I thought earlier 18 in just, you know, reminder of parking or or you don't even have to necessarily remind the parking lot." Oh, it' be great, but just packing be effect. Notice there's going to be a foot and a half of snow this week. Be valuable.

Well, the communications director will have help with some of this. I mean, I will say capacity is a problem in my office. The police usually put that out too and the fire department and the DPW puts that on their Facebook page. I I don't think it's much more than some just honest complacency from people. I don't think it's there. But, I mean, we when's the storm coming? Sunday to Monday 12 to 18 in. Well, I'll talk to the chief. I'll talk I'll talk to Chief Lynch and just see if he can put out a message or work with us on what he wants to do and try to get out the parking ban a little bit earlier and we'll give it a shot. I think we need I'm fine with that.

No, real quickly. I think you all know like the message I used to put up. A lot of people love them and that's why I tried to make them a little more tolerable because we were getting so much push back about it and but Jamie's right. We get a lot of push back. So kind of what we've been operating under if it's a true emergency that's when we're sending stuff out. You know 18 inch of snow that's more of emergency. You know last week was about the barrels you know you a day pickup. I mean it's not really emergency. If you put your barrel out and get picked up that you just got to know the next day and where the mouth's going to go. So that's why I didn't feel it was necessary. Usually a lot of my messages are tied in with other things. The governor will declare a state emergency. Stay off the road. We go out there. I talk to the police chief and fire chief. They like when I do the messages. So I I go with them.

We'll talk we'll talk to the chief. I'm happy to do it. I I'm not against it at all. I would love to do robocall. Text message. Do we have that [clears throat] capability? Yes.

But how we get the list of residents is also a a a different thing. Some of it is sourced through our we pay for a contract through regroup that goes through essentially cable um uh subscribers through another third party who buys it from them and then we get that list and that's about 80% of the pop populace in town. But you only get that update once a year and then we have a self-subscriber system. So the text messages don't really go as far. You have to subscribe yourself to get the text messages. And for years when we had a communications staff before and myself and Amy and others, the police, DBW, we have done a lot of outreach.

Um, unfortunately, some of it's getting lost, I think, in a little bit of the white noise. But, um, but, you know, Steve, you've dealt with this a lot, too. I I mean, it's been a challenge to get people to subscribe to some of this stuff. And plus and and plus the the kids up at Dean, they're not going to get notified either. And I bet you that there's a lot of those. That whole area there is probably has a lot of But I do think we have to look at increasing the tickets and stuff because there's a lot of repeat offenders because the bottom line is this. It's costing the money with the DPW trying to get around the cars and not knock them over. Um and we already know you're getting yelled out everybody's mailbox. You don't need to be yelled out about the vehicles. All right. And then we have to pay for police to go out and do the tickets.

Yeah. Yeah. So, with a town that's budget struggling and trying to save money and you're costing us money by doing these things, it's time to put an end to it. $25 first defense. After that, it's 100. Third time it's towed. You can get it out of the impound yard. Yeah. Like, we're not playing anymore. It's not a game. Sure. [snorts] And I think we need to have a discussion. So, it's something that we can put it. I don't want a resolution, a bylaw. I'm tired. So, I don't really know what it would fall under. You do need a bylaw. So,

so there'll be a, just to give you a tip, there will be a fee. Ambulance receipts usually get upped every year. Um, I just met with the fire chief the other day about this. There are a couple of other tweaks to some fees through our budget meetings that some staff need to deal with costs like the passport photo, like just a couple of small things. I think the clerk had a couple things, the board of health, like some very odds and ends. The council did a whole fees bylaw last year of an upgrade of the whole system. And I was going to say to y'all, if you want to upgrade the police ones, and you know, I will tell you, it's like the old um you know, there was a joke by Chris Rock, you know, that said years ago, it was infamous. If you want to if you want to um stop people killing each other, charge people $10,000 for a bullet. So, if you really want to get out there and you want to stop it, charge people $10,000 for a te and they will get the message.

So, if you hit them in the pocket, not a hundred bucks, that won't matter. People will pay it. People will pay people will pay a hundred bucks. Well, it matter to me. Well, I'm just saying like me, too. That's why we need to have a discussion so we can actually come to a determination. I'm just throwing it out there because right now it's 25 the f. Yeah. So, we did we are packaging a bylaw to come for you guys for budget season to look at all those and you guys can amend it with because I know councelor Griffith brought it up I think too at one of the meetings a couple weeks ago and so we've been talking about as a staff and we're trying to mirror that with the budget cycle so that you can have you can assume by the way increase revenue in the budget

to help offset some of the town's costs right I figured that would be a worthwhile conversation so um so we are working on that and appreciate the appreciate the the suggestions besides of fees. One thing we've kind of seen is the actual language. Like we can only give a ticket out between 1 and five. It should be a little longer and then you know actually during the event you follow me. That's the only window we can do it. So Okay. Language change. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. We can put that in. Right Jamie? Yeah. Yeah. Yan. I yield the floor.

Thank you. All right. I will be quick. Uh just a question. This isn't about us so much, but two years ago they passed that like big infrastructure, federal infrastructure bill, right? Did we see any of that money, you know, it was like supposed to improve infrastructure? Uh, yeah, through the SRF, the the AR.

So, there was one project on the Grove Street that qualified. We did get some money through that, but to be honest with you, we qualify for very little. A lot of those pro a lot of those infrastructure improvements are towards major cities, public transit, bridges, roads with far greater problems. So when they score those grants, they're going to score it based on condition. And I hate to say it, but our infrastructure is exponentially better than most places in the country. So it we would never we we didn't qualify for the vast majority of those. Is that a decent summary?

Yeah. And then I I would also add to um a lot of the BIL bipartisan infrastructure bill uh went through in Massachusetts at least went through the SRF program. Uh which is why for Beaver Street you you saw the the Biden sign and it said um you know funded by so we did benefit through that and um they were able to you know boost up more projects fund more projects um but that's gone away now. I'm just I was curious about I'm sure other people are curious about question. Um trash and recycling the rates are they do you know what they are off the top of your head? Uh is it how much we pay for what per quarter or per

like the the the tonnage like how much do we pay? Because it used to always be that like recycling was a lot cheaper than than trash which wanted to push people towards more recycling. How is it now? So the trash rate I believe is 9207. I can verify that for you, but it's it's close to 100 ton per ton relative.

And recycling is less than that, but the recycling does fluctuate um monthtomonth as trash does based on not only trash is a fixed rate per year based and then you know depends on how much we're throwing away or collectively we're throwing away. Recycling follows a complex formula that is kept rather opaque from the communities. So essentially waste management owns the manu uh materials recovery facility

and then they get not only our community but everybody else's and then they go to the market and they say who's going to pay this for that who's going to pay this for that and then it's uh the rate that we receive is based on the commodities market. So, but it is less than trash currently. Yes. Which is I will say in my experience here though Yeah. is that at one time we were actually getting money for the recycling and then during CO um they actually recycle recycling costs more than getting rid of the trash. And that's why in New Hampshire they stopped recycling.

They just burned everything. Okay. You can't do that in Massachusetts because we're required to recycle. But that's it. But we're actually lower now than it was before. I to give one more perspective. Sorry. It's a on average it's between 20 and 25,000 per month for a recycling invoice that we get from recycle America and it's approximately 50 to 55,000 per month for the bill from wheel for the invoice from Wheeler in uh waste innovations now is what it's called.

Yeah. So my, you know, my point more to the public, you guys understand this already, is that if we recycle more, the more you recycle, I mean, it's not only good for the environment, right? But the more the le the less the town, the less we all pay in our fee. So that's another good reason why to to try to recycle. Um, we have one of I said it before, we just so you know, we have one of the highest recycling rates in Massachusetts. Do we? Yeah, frankly. Yeah, we're we're in the top tier and it's scored extraordinarily high on our citizen satisfaction survey. Well, yeah, they're happy about something. That's good. [laughter] 10 years. They're actually happy about everything according to survey. Couple things, but maybe that helped. Who knows? Yeah.

Um, my last thing is just a comment. So, over um at least a couple of years here and there. Uh, as a resident, um, I've had questions about water. Anytime I've gone, now I'm a town council, I can say something about this. Anytime I've needed something, I've gone to Doug for questions and he's just like amazing as far as getting back to uh getting back to to me. I'm sure other residents as well. I mean, I wasn't at a town council member. He was just he just answered my questions and uh get back to me an email and you know so um just wanted to give kudos to Doug and I'm sure others on your staff are similar. So

it's a it's a great team. It really it really is. Thank you. That's it. Oh well. So um I got nothing at 10:30 and 10 o'clock at night. I really don't know. You guys do a good job. I know. I'm I'm kind of, you know, we're heroes right now because I kept the airport open. You plowed the streets. So, we're all heroes,

right? We're all heroes. I The airport wasn't shut down. I'm I I look great, right? I look like an idiot after Well, this storm coming up, as you know. Yeah. This storm coming up. I mean, we're still working out, you know, the repairs probably. You You know what I mean? the repairs have to get done before Sunday. Like I could have worked tonight

if I wanted to. So, I mean, we're working around the clock just to get ready for this next storm. So, I know what you guys do. You do a lot. And that's just the repair shop. That's not counting the water departments out. You see five or six guys out on the water department, but the rest of the guys are down the other end of town doing something, too. So, I mean, you guys are always doing something. So, it's a it's a it's like a city. you're a city within yourself because you're going to take care of everything and I understand that. That's what I kind of do, too. So, uh, you guys do a good job. Um, you know, um, it's a tough job. It's tough to get workers. There's no workers out there no more. Nobody wants to do this anymore. That's the That's the big challenge. So, um, that's it. That you guys do a good job. It's 10:00. Let's [applause]

thank you very much. And I'm sorry, Max. I couldn't take you on a He actually called for snowplow. I was going to take them off, but this last one wasn't a good one. We weren't supposed to get three answers. We got six. I don't know the way. I was so happy. And if you want to really get them moving, just hit them with the plow. Just hit them. [laughter] people. [laughter] You heard it. They'll move it. They'll move it. Hit them. Find them. Thank you very much for your time. Appreciate it. Keep up the good work, guys. All of you. Let's talk about

just quickly. There's only two things on here. There's only two things. and then Jamie can talk about budget. Yeah. So, so what? So, moving on, we're going to go to resolution 2606, amendment to the cannabis license local approvement process and cannabis social equity policy and social equity policy. So the the clerk will read the resolution. Motion to skip the reading. Second. Seconded. Motion to skip the reading. All in favor? I

I opposed. Pass. Still have to vote on it. [laughter] Somebody has to Somebody has to make a motion to vote. Yeah. Somebody has to make a motion. Move resolution 25-06. Do I have a second? Second. Any any talk any debate? Uh, I do want to ask you, [laughter] I'll tell you. All right. Go ahead. I did want to ask um uh the town administrator through the chair. Uh, would this put put us at legal liability with the state?

No, I actually um I did get in touch with them. Um, we did submit it on Halloween and they haven't reviewed it yet. Um, so I just said, let's just amend it, you know, based on what I heard at the last meeting. You know, I met Mark and I met with Steve a couple weeks ago. Um, we made the changes and they basically said have the council revote it with whatever the changes are, resubmit it, and then we'll get feedback from them. but just November, December, January. I doubt we'll have them read it now by February, March, April. So, who knows? So, it's um no legal liability or jeopardy with them. Um they actually recommended to us to have you guys amend it the way you wanted it to before they went and did a full review.

Okay. I know this is all new, so it's I don't think anybody knows where the goalpost is. It is what it is. If they don't like it, they'll tell us, right? That's I tried to get the guy over five emails, too. Could you just give me some feedback on the draft from October? Could you give me a smell test? Like just something wouldn't do it. So, I said, "All right, I'll just We met with Steve and said, "We'll just give it a shot and see what they say. If they have a problem, tell us." And Jamie Jeffroy had no luck either.

No, I I told him it really it wasn't going to really help. Um, he did he did interact with them and he did try to give them a little bit of a shove, but I think it it didn't matter. the licensing person said, "We haven't read it. Just amend it. Send it back and we'll do another review instead of reviewing it twice." Which it's not a long document. He could have just read it in an hour and told us what his thoughts were, but I don't know. Is what it is. Okay. So, all in favor of resolution 26-06. I I

opposed. Motion pass. Resolution 26-07, gift to accept uh Franklin Public Library, $500. Clerk will read the resolution. There's a note here that I need to read you the memorandum before the actual gift acceptance. Uh Mr. Chairman, if that's okay. Sure. So, this is a memorandum from our town administrator dated January 16th, resolution 26-07, gift acceptance at the library. The library has received an extremely generous donation in the amount of $500. This donation was made by Mr. Jeff Nutting in memory of Mr. Ken Norman. In Jeff's words, Ken was a wonderful person and a true public servant who gave countless hours to our community. I will miss him. This donation will be applied towards children's programming at the library at the discretion of the library department. The town extends our sincere appreciation to Jeff for this donation and shares his sentiments about Ken Norman who was an exceptionally dedicated member of the Franklin community and a dear friend to many. Our deepest condolences with the Norman family. The donation summary. Franklin Public Library Department $500 donated by Mr. Jeff Nutting. And Jamie, I don't know if you have anything to add. It said ask you questions, but I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

Pretty self-explanatory. So, okay. To read the actual res acceptance of the gift.

Acceptance of the gift to the Franklin Public Library. This is resolution 26-07. Whereas the Franklin Public Library has received a generous donation in the amount of $500 to be used at the discretion of the library department as follows. Donation summary Franklin Public Library $500. Donation to be applied toward children's programming at the library at the discretion of the library department. Donor information is included in tonight's packet. Now therefore be it resolved that the town council of the town of Franklin on behalf of the Franklin Public Library gratefully accepts this generous donation to be used at the discretion of the library department for the purpose noted above. This resolution shall become effective according to the provisions of the town of Franklin home world charter.

Move resolution 2607 gift acceptance. Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor? I opposed. Thank you. Motion to pass. So Jamie,

yeah. Uh really quickly, I just want to thank um the fire department, police department, DPW, uh and our veterans and volunteers for doing an amazing job uh cleaning up the common and orchestrating the entire uh procession for uh officer uh Leapora last week. They did a great job. Uh if anybody saw it on TV, um it was just an incredible ceremony and our staff had a lot to do with that. I was really proud to see what the veterans did. So, thank you to them. I just want to note in my memo on the budget, uh the budget hearings for the council are May 20th and 21st. It's just a little typo. Um even though that's been published everywhere else. Uh I'm not going to go through this memo just because it's late. I would just say to any of you, do you have any questions, any comments? I did email council Dellorco. We did set up a meeting with the school committee chair I think in a couple weeks.

Two weeks.

Um I did give all these dates to the school committee and the superintendent. So nobody should feel like they're left out. Um but does anybody have any questions about the process, the memo, the timing? Um happy to answer them, but it's pretty well laid out right there. Um um you know, there's one other date on here I didn't put on, which was March 18th at your meeting. uh the department of elementary and secondary education is going to come in. I did uh invite while we were meeting uh the headmaster Heather from the charter school to come to that meeting as well so that if she has any feedback and commentary on how charter schools relate to the chapter 70 formula happy to add her to that conversation. Um but um I would just ask if anybody has any questions or or comments about the timeline. Go ahead. Um I just more and I know uh staff capacity is an issue Jamie but is there any plans to maybe even at a a lesser rate but to bring back those joint budget subcommittee meetings because I do think the feedback we got from the public was very positive and they felt very uh they were well attended. They you know people asked a lot of questions. I do think it dispelled a lot of rumors. Yeah.

Um, you know, we're just in an age when we have to do more to try to engage more people in these budget realities. And I feel like if we stop those open conversations, we're kind of hurting ourselves. So, but maybe we don't maybe we just can't do six. Maybe we can do

I mean, I agree. I just don't know who's doing them, when we're doing them. I mean, we can do them in March, but after the February 11th meeting, you know, if I'm going to put out a budget for Fincom for the first week in April, I mean, my team, it takes about four or five weeks for Lucas, the school staff, all of us to produce the documents for a budget release. So, it's hard. I I don't I I'm open to any ideas people have. Um, I agree the feedback was good. Um, ultimately it didn't work in the end because it lost. Um, it's just tough. I I I don't know.

I think there's more to doing them than just to try to get an override pass. Well, that wasn't also just for an override. I mean, I know it little bit was failed. I think it was some success. I think Well, part of it I'll say is this. It it it didn't really draw out that many people, right? It did. But yeah, everyone had 20. You came to all of them. I mean, yeah, there was an extra different 10 or 15, 20. I know Steve came to a lot of them, but we're just still missing thousands of people. And those thousands of people that we didn't reach are not coming here for a meeting. And they're not going to the Elks. We did one at the Elks, RJ Library. I mean, senior center, they're not coming out.

And I think part of it is we have to go to them. And this is a hard reality, right? I think a lot of you, the school committee, the finance committee have to figure out ways on how to reach people so that they care about this stuff, right? And I don't know the answer to that. Um, the fincom is going to go through every line item, every budget. I mean, they're going to dig in. They go through every line item of everything every year. I'd love it if people went to the finance committee meetings, but people just don't. We had a great conversation last week, two hours about development.

Yeah. Um, from the people that watch, I got a lot of great feedback, but generally it's the same people watching, too. So, for all the questions swirling around the economics of 444 and everything else, you know, and I thought the finance committees folks really picked it up. I mean, they really did kind of understand the cause and effect. The chief spoke about it. Um, superintendent spoke. I just wish people would go to the finance committee meetings because everything that people are saying they want is happening there. It's just tough, right? And Ken kind of knows because he's on it. Um Okay. I don't know. I I we're happy to have more joint budget meetings in March. I'm going to piggy back on,

but I mean once you get to April, the goal is to I think help people understand the budget more. So, and then Mr. Chairman, you'd have to appoint four members here. I got them already. Um, if you want to appoint them and and I'll try to get a group together. I assume the school committee has four people. You know, finance committee has four. I mean, they they'll just do the same for probably from last year, but um so I'll I'll point them right now. It would be council Malloy. Okay. Ken, Ted, and Jean. [snorts]

All right. I'll see if the school committee members are there in the finance committee. Do I appoint the chair? Uh, good question. I have to go back and look at the charge. Yeah, look at the chart and see what that is. Yeah, the charge.

We'll try to do something, but I guess I got to I got to be a little Well, I I the 16 elected members have to figure this out. Ultimately, the finance committee is going to go through a review. They're going to give you a recommendation and it's going to be fairly balanced, right? It's going to be professional, mature. It's going to be based on what they know. There's a lot of expertise on the committee. But at some point, we need the school committee and the town council to lead this community to organize people to have them be interested in this. Um, this is a 15, 20 year problem that the staff are just not going to be able to get the excitement out there. And unfortunately, that means on your end, and I and I mean this sincerely, all nine of you and all seven school committee members have to sacrifice other issues, other time parts of your life. I have heard that some of you have met with some other people to try to talk about these budget issues. And I think organically and serendipitously, the elected officials have to figure out how to do this. I don't know how else to do it. the the the way I the only and I don't know how to do it either,

but what I look back at is when we started the safe coalition, right? And how we got the word out to the safe coalition and we filled Yeah. We filled the whole auditorium at the high at the high school and they were outside. Now, I don't know how to do that, but if we could do that and get it at the high school that way, we could reach a lot more people. Unfortunately, I don't have a way to do that either. But if there's any other ways we can do that and the town really didn't have a lot of big role in that. You guys had no role in it really. Right. I was right when I got here. You guys were just marching on your own.

We went door to door. We knocked on doors. We did. We did. Huh. And that's what we did. We knocked on doors. We gave pamphlets out every every night. And and that's what we did. And uh it worked. I was amazed at that because it was standing room only. Yeah. And that's a big auditorium. And uh it was standing room only. But that's what we did. We Saturdays we went out and knocked on doors. We did a lot of things like that. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes. But I I still don't know. They might shut the door in your face, too. You know what I mean? You're never gonna know what they're going what they're doing, right? No, I agree.

Um, but love the idea of knocking on doors. Love the idea of having this and doing it, you know, when there isn't uh what some people would consider an ulterior motive when there isn't an override on the budget. But if we're going out there and schedule something, you know, late enough where where what we're doing is having a discussion about the budget that's that's proposed and why it is what it is. That's much more educational for folks. And yes, they will have concerns. That's fine. We want them to to bring those concerns and recognize where the issues are and so that we can also explain why the decisions that are made are the the decisions that were made. help them understand the constraints that that we are working with

because that's how you start to build that ground swell for down the road what do we do differently but to get there to your point that will require us you know and I'll I'll speak to as speak to this later will require us kind of knocking on doors talking to our constituents or just you know people that we we know so that they are aware and they can start talking to their to their folks and if we have a venue like the high school auditorium where we're having a discussion where you've got the school committee, the uh the finance committee and the town council discussing the budget of Franklin, you know,

with with no motive other than educate folks. I think we will get people who want to better understand the things that are that are that are that that are stressing them out. And yeah, we'll get some people who are just there who who who who want to complain or who want to push a specific point. Mhm. But there'll be more communication and better education, which is what we sorely need as a town. And and you might find good people, too, because that's how that's how we found Jim Derek. I'll be honest with you, Jeff, he got up and spoke and I was sitting next to Jeff Roy and I said, "There's our guy." We didn't because me and Jeff could Jeff and myself couldn't do it because, you know, we're too busy.

Jim took it and then Jen, you know, Jen was already on board. Jen took it and uh through that that that concept, this is where teachers matter. This is where people on the staff matter. This is where the people that are affected by it matter, right? Jim was affected by that crisis. So, he had a stake in the game.

And you know, I'm I've said it publicly a million times before. I don't know how to make our staff and other people who are like roads infrastructure, right? Um there are people on this call tonight that are huge infrastructure advocates, you know, but they're not willing to go out and make that case to voters about what we heard tonight. And so I think to your point, there are voter lists from the last two elections, you know, who came out for the override votes, you know, who are interested in budgets one way or the other. I mean, I think there's other ways, but there's got to be a coalition of a group of people formed to try to to try to go out and do what you did for the safe coalition and other things to try to get people to matter.

And even if what we do is, you know, not six, but like two or three budget education sessions, that could be a very powerful tool uh for getting people of Franklin uh in the know. and and and that's that's where sending out an email u you know to to to voter list and just you know is one way knocking on doors is is another way but but you know Facebook is is certainly another way getting out getting the awareness out there giving them options

to to just come and and and learn about what is actually happening what's what's going on down the street why it's happening I think that's an opport opportunity that we should at least be pushing. I think the teachers have a big role in this to to move it to move it forward. I think I think teachers are aware. You tell 10 people, Caroline tells 10 people, Ted tell I tell 10 people, they tell 10 people more. That's how we get the ball rolling. It's a snowball roll. What one of the things that I think we're all recognizing is that

we have challenges um in in this town and and some of them are you many of them are focused on on on financial. There isn't a quick fix. We're going to have to make decisions, but we need to get together as a group to make those decisions. And that's going to impact teachers. That's going to impact the fire department, the police department. That's going to impact you uh DPW. that's going to impact your kids, your parents, and all of us. So, if we don't get out there and sorry, if we don't get out there and actually have this conversation, we're shooting ourselves in the foot because otherwise, what the hell are we doing? Mr. Chairman, oh, I just I just want to ask through you to the town administrator,

are you a uh able to reveal uh will we be able to propose a um level service funded budget or something close to it or is it going to be a little off? I mean, right now, I mean, first of all, the governor's budget comes out on the 28th, Wednesday, the cherry sheets. Um, you know, I'll know Friday at the MMA conference, the governor will give her speech and lieutenant governors check out what AUG will be at this year.

They already did per pupil last year, so I doubt you'll see another increase in that. Um, obviously we've put out the report and tried to really push the Yuga number pretty heavily because that helps all of us. I would say if if the legislature and governor funded the 351 million for 351 cities and towns for the UGER request that the MMA is pushing, that would lessen our deficit from last year by half. So that's not chump. And I'll be writing a letter, you'll get it on February 11th. Lucas and I are writing a letter to our legislative delegation. We're going to pass it off to the school committee and the council and see if you'll advocate as well. Um we'll see what the governor starts with uh on the 28th. Um new growth is obviously plummeting. So our tax base is going down because of a lot of the issues that you guys are aware of departments. Uh so um we just got through department meetings this today. Um so I don't know where all the numbers fit yet. Max um some stuff's going up with hopefully more aid. Some of the other numbers are going to go down. They're going to be changed around. We have some certainty on pensions. So, at the end of the day, too, I will say, and I put in the memo, healthcare is

going to be the one number despite all these meetings, it's all going to change around Memorial Day when we get the bill from the GIC and whether or not we save money or whether there's an increase in that line item. Um, superintendent and I've already had two meetings. we already agree on so much if not the whole proposal but I I'm we'll see you know and on February 11th you'll look at the capital program you'll there's about 2.3 million left in free cash after the finance committee recommendations um so my guess is this year is because I think to councelor Juku's point I think what you'd love to do is just kind of get this year I even if you have to use onetime money because I still think the longer term strategy is probably more important than just looking at right now this year even if you have to make a little cuts you have to use onetime money I think there's a way to make it all work but I'm nervous about FY2829 in the future because what you saw here too tonight is you're going to probably need to do a water rate hike for the hillside side tank. Um, and I think this comes into the conversation. We had like

the water rates that went up. We had, you know, things out of our control went up with price. The CPA thing, the debt exclusion just hit for Tri County. Um, I don't know how much more bandwidth the public has for more money coming out of their pocket to anything. I think some people just say break, let it break. Um, you know, and and that may be what that may be what has to happen, too. So, but I agree. If we can get through tonight towards canc to get out there and get to the people and get the the big thing that we want done. Um, you know, we're on short terms right now. You know what I mean? So,

and and I think we reframe or as I'm thinking about what's happened and if we're able to kind of put it together this way, Jamie, and we we get get through this next year. I think it's to your point, it's it's more about the structure of it, structural deficit that you've been talking about for years. It's I'm almost thinking it's the financial structure of the town going forward for the next couple of years. What are we going to need? How much money is is that going to take? Where are we going to get it? And I think we're really inviting people to become educated about it. But I think the hook that we have to find is their participation and what they can do to help.

Whether it's through ideas or other contributions. I mean, I'd love to ask residents and employees of the town like, you know, what would you do to save money? You know, because there's a couple of components to it. what we could say, what we could raise, and what we could, you know, what are we missing? Yeah. Yeah. How do how do we fill those gaps in and get them to participate in that somehow? Um, so I I'd love it if we can kind of frame it in a different sort of way, like, you know, how how are we all going to work together to try to address our financial needs for the next couple of years? Yeah.

To combat that, I think what you're trying to say is we need your help. Please give us your help. you know. Yeah. Well, help us, you know, let us share the problem with you. Let us learn together what the problem really is. You know, we said that a lot on the campaign trail. Like, you know, we got to get educated around what's happening, where there's opportunity maybe to save, where there's opportunity to grow, where there's opportunity to, you know, further invest or if we're going to raise money, how we're going to do that. So, um, just my two cents. No, no. I I I kind of agree with you

to go on with that to that point. I think that, you know, last year when with the budget cuts after the second failed override when um we lost the summer interns and the trash pickup, I felt like that was and a lot of people were very angry about it, but it seemed to me that that could have been an opportunity to say, "Hey, listen. This is where we all share in the responsibility here. We just need you to take your trash. Whatever you bring in, you take out. We're all doing this together." And I I think if you looked at it that way, at least to me, it actually didn't seem like this huge burden.

It didn't seem like, you know, um vindictive or punitive, which is what, you know, a lot of the residents said it was. Um and I feel like maybe that was just um a failure in the communication or the I don't know or even just the setup of it, the way that it was discussed. And so, you know, to your point about getting people on board, I think, you know, even if it's some of these things that come out that, hey, we've got to cut back on this, if we can get people to kind of see it. Listen, it's just we're all in this town. We just we all have to take care of it together. Um, I think we can get a lot more buy in and a lot more support for those kind of we got to get them measures.

We got to get them. We have to figure out what what we do on our side to get them there. I think we could have I think we could have gotten there or the previous town council could have gotten people there and I don't know where that broke down but I thought it was it was just a way of sharing responsibility well without the immediate pressure of an override or not. I think that takes a lot of heat out of the discussion because I don't think a lot of people came. This is just an open discussion anyway. But I don't think a lot of people came because they said they're going to talk about the override. I'm not voting for the override so I'm not going. or they came because of the override and they wanted to argue for it or against it or whatever.

I think we lost a lot because they weren't going to come because they were voting no and which is why it's so important to do it when there isn't an override. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no, no. That's okay, Jamie. And I don't remember now what meeting we agreed that we were going to try to do this, so forgive me. Yep. But at some point we talked about having a retreat with

the council and the school committee on a Saturday to just sort of have a a kumbaya with that. I believe we even talked about having a a mediator, you know, somebody other than you and Lucas that could, you know, kind of guide us through not necessarily goal setting, but I believe it was much more about the budget and about morale and just about the two groups working together. I don't know if that kind of fell off just because of staffing challenges or if maybe you're working on it. We don't know about it. But if we could I think that's sort of like the precursor to doing these big public joint budget meetings instead of it being forced because I feel like everybody gets their dukes up when they're fighting for their budgets and then it it almost becomes like counter like what we're trying to do, you know. So, a couple things on that. You're right. I think to councelor Griffith's point, too. I've said to the library board of directors, the friends of the Franklin elders, the senior center, the teachers union, like every group lost something. And what's so disheartening is they can't see the losses of everybody else and somehow come together to realize everybody's sharing in the pain.

And I don't know if it's a social sociology thing these days. It just feels like everyone's really just stuck into their lane. It's hard to get them out. I think that's where leadership comes in. You're the elected citizen peers, you and the school committee. And a lot of this I think does fall on the town council and the school committee to lead the community towards somehow fig educating these issues. But also to council Griffith's point, I think sometimes people have to hear a lot of things they don't want to hear. Um, and in terms of the retreat or strategic planning on your February 4th meeting, you know, we'll try to start the early list of goals. You'll have an executive session to deal with some land stuff that night, which deals with goals. But I think if you want to have a third party come in to try to manage a five-year strategic plan like like we're a retreat almost um you know February 4th would be the day to decide that right and say okay

make it a goal make it a goal

make it an immediate one get buy in from the school committee the superintendent and say we're going to go spend $25,000 a free cash say to hire a third party. I'll have a few examples. Rentham just completed theirs. The town of Westford just completed theirs. Westford looked at values like they stepped up another 10,000 ft and said who are we? Because they had a major fi a major financial problem too. Um and they lost a 7 million override a year and a half ago and they went oh my and the it was the same problem here, right? It was just a lot of fighting, a lot of discontent. And they stepped back and said, you know, what are we fighting for here? What are our values as a community? And it was a, you know, therapy process. I mean, basically, right, it's kind of getting everybody together and reflecting a little. We could do something like that, you know, and then look out five years and say, what are we trying to accomplish here? Do we want a police station? Does that fit in? Yes. No. Remington Jefferson, does that fit in? Yes. No. Do you want to go out and borrow money for debt exclusion? Yes. No, do we want to fit, you know, and you try to work, do we want to still prioritize sustainability, you know, I mean, there's a lot of questions you could add to this, right?

But they'll referee that and we'll pick a consultant and they can walk you through that process. That's going to take some months, but that kind of piggybacks with the concept of let's try to scrape by this year and figure out where the numbers are. I'm I'm really keeping my fingers crossed that, you know, a lot of the advocacy and side work I do on weekends and here or there with the administration and the legislature will work and they'll give us a bump in local aid this year in an election year. I really hope that, you know, and I really think it's advantageous to them um to do that and hopefully that'll help us out. But if we can scrape by this year, you guys can kind of see that strategic plan working, you know, longer term

time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the master plan should be the guiding principle because that already had a ton of work and a ton of people contributing. But having it's higher than that. It's even higher up than to take No, I know. But to take a strategic plan from that. That's right. And is Yes. Is our as our next step. Yeah. And it's the in my opinion, it's the only way we're ever going to get

consensus. And I will say one flaw of the master plan in my view was they really didn't put a school part in it which seems to me to be a massive oversight and a big problem that somehow the core and heart and soul of your community was not reflected in that long document. You know um just a missed chance to really especially while the schools were going through redistricting. You know what's their vision for five years? We hear about everything we've lost, but nobody talks about where are we going.

And with all due respect, like a lot of the stuff that was lost was due to declining enrollment, declining interest. Like there were reasons why things were lost, right? And there was actions that weren't taken by previous school committees years ago. But still, the question for the master plan should have been, what do where do you want to be in 10 years for the school department and make them go through that exercise? You guys shouldn't have to go through all that. there's a school committee to do that. They should be going through where they are in five ten years, right? I know they dip into it a little bit, but I think that it might be a healthy exercise to bring everybody together and at least start that. We can do it together, you know, you right where maybe they wouldn't feel

uh under the microscope or attacked [clears throat] or totally defensive where maybe the school committee folks would truly feel like you know, hey, it's a new day. Absolutely. But we got to figure this out together and I would love to I would that's right entities to set goals. Well, we're meeting we're meeting Jamie set up third or something. We'll bring that all up. But to that point, Ted, I think also, you know, how does this is how do the schools fit into water rates? Yeah,

it may not directly impact them, but water rates are more money out of people's pocket. So when you ask for an override and you don't know people are already taxed out because of water rates, Tri County debt exclusion, Beaver Street interceptor, people are just saying, "I don't have any more to give. Sorry, I don't care what it's for." But that's 100% where we are. And we need the school committee members to understand the DPW con, right? We need everybody to understand each other's constraints. But that's that's why this conversation is [clears throat] that's what we just Yeah. I'm glad we had it even though it's No, absolutely. No, I [laughter] I only brought it up because I think I think there's a benefit to this. So, uh but uh let's move on. Nothing else.

I'm all done. [laughter] You want to go to future agenda items? Council Mallaloy and councelor comments. You can do council comments together. Uh wrap them up together. Jamie mentioned some of the recognition I wanted to give to the town for the funeral for the officer. Thought that was great. Um, I was going to mention to maybe for the people watching at home, if there's anybody left or watching it on tape to go look at that finance um, committee meeting from last week, that was great. Um, very helpful, very useful. Future agenda items, there's a lot coming up, so I don't know that I'm going to throw anything on the pile right now. So, I think we're good.

Um, can Yes, sir. Go ahead. Councilman Malloy, I I spot on with you, both both of your uh comments, your recognition on those pieces. Um, one of the things in terms of comments, one of the things I appreciate about this council is just kind of the range of experience and perspectives that we all bring to it. It's it's fantastic. Everybody's volunteering their time. um you know trying to contribute to our community but you know as thinking back on uh some of the appointments and you know that we've had Mark Manelly's comments and today with both Isabelle and Jen um I I I I agree and you know have questions as well. We we need to get answers to to to certain questions, but let's try not to make make these volunteers feel like we're putting them in front of a firing squad. Um, you know, we already have an issue where we don't have as many volunteers as we'd like for for qualified volunteers as we'd like for positions. Um, and it's great when people realize, oh, there's something that I might be interested in. I want to throw my hat in the ring. That's fantastic. But we've got a process in place for a reason. And so when there's an appointment, let's let's take a look at it, you know, take a critical look at it and try to be try to respond to that. But let's also try to be respective of the fact respectful of the fact that these are individuals who are looking to volunteer their time to serve the town of Franklin just the same way we are. I I I I don't know that I can stress that enough. Um, you know, and I'm not saying that anybody's being mean or

No, no, I just I just I just know like if I'm if I were sitting in in in their seats today, I might have felt more under the gun than I think uh we wanted them to, especially when when these were unanimous votes for both of them. Okay. So,

all right. Well, um Ken just took most of my comments. Um but yeah, I just to reiterate that, you know, and we we don't want to appoint people who we don't want to grill them on like would you do what we want you to do because we are looking for people who are um you know they're qualified and they are good fits and we want a diversity of perspectives there and so I think as long as you know they're being nominated for their merit and their fitness which is you know what our charter says and that's what we are determining. Um, so I'm gonna leave that because I think Ken said it really well, much better than I can. Um, another thing I wanted to say about the conversation in the CBA is that um, you know, Mr. Hallagan got up and he made a comment about how um, someone online was disparaging and and him and and making um, comments that were [clears throat] inaccurate and um, dam could be damaging to his career, to his reputation. And I think that is um just a major problem. And then 10 minutes later, we saw someone get up at the microphone and then make similar comments about one of our nominees. And um and so I just I was just so struck at how we had one person and they were they were making the same points, right? They were both really, you know, arguing for other candidates, but they were um one was saying, "This was done to me and it's not okay." And the other one was saying, "Well, you know, he's doing it to her." So, um I just think we need to be very very careful about the information that we are taking in and the information that is um being shared and and you know putting a stop to that like you know this he doesn't need to be grilling her at the microphone that wasn't this wasn't the right situation for that but also I know we got um at least you know I've seen an email saying I've heard these things as well and so we just need to be very careful that when we're getting information that is not

um valid validated that we don't know whether it's true that we're not allowing that to color our perspect our perceptions of people. Um, and then my last comment is that I just want to recognize um, Steve Sherlock who is still here at quarter to 11 at night. He was always here until 11:00 at night as the only person left in the room.

And um, and he does so much all he's here. He's always recording. He's he gets the um, summaries up. make these. Um anyway, this you're making sure that the community stays informed and you are giving all of your time and half of your night and I just wanted to say thank you um for what you do because it is um it is a sacrifice and we recognize it um even if it's not commented on all the time. So, thank you. You all set? I'm all set. Max. Uh oh. Did you skip some Oh, no. We go down. That's all we do about Oh, okay. on council comments, but a lot of times we just go right down on Okay. comments.

Um so, yes, I just wanted to let people know that I put out a poll about um goals for the upcoming meeting where we're going to be discussing our goals. I want your feedback. I'm going to be trying to it's non-binding, but I'm going to try to use that to inform you know what goals I put forward. And uh if you uh get to the poll online by typing in the URL bit.ly/galpole. ly/galpole. That's bit.ly/ggoalpole. And I'm happy to hear your, you know, your feedback. It's based on the master plan um uh goals. Uh had people nominate a bunch. So, please vote. So, I, you know, it's not a scientific poll, but it it is helpful to get your feedback. And if any other I I could have up to three counselors for open meeting if if you want to look at them and deliberate on them. I I can't have five, but if I could have three, um I think that's allowed. So, if you're interested, reach out. And uh that's it.

J, um don't really have too much um cuz my brain cells are slowly dying. um and and needs sleep. But um I do want to look at putting something on the agenda um basically so we can start the process of looking at increasing the ZBA because if we're if it does have to go to a ballot vote, I would like to try to get it so we can maybe put it on the November ballot. That's pretty much all I have to say. And please everybody don't park on the road Sunday night if we're getting 12 to 18 inches of snow. That's it. That's it.

Okay. So, hold on a second. I don't know if everybody got the email, but I wanted to make sure the public was aware of the uh call for artists and writers that went out from our uh cultural department. um long and if if you're not I'm not going to read this whole thing but basically um Corey Sha and the cultural district and the cultural council they're all working together for this program called Franklin welcomes the world uh because of the World Cup coming. Yeah.

Um and it is an economic opportunity for the town. It's also a way to celebrate. Um so there there's a lot of great information up on the website. They're working with hotels. They're working with restaurants, cafes, public spaces, but they're looking for artists that want to put work up and they're looking for poets that want to uh exhibit their writing. Anybody can apply as long as they live or work in Franklin. Uh if they grew up here or maybe studied here at Dean. Um but I would encourage you if you're interested to you could reach out to Corey, you could look on the website. Um, but there's a lot of there's a a really lengthy email, but it's there's a lot of really great information here. Um, shout out to the new Cojo restaurant that's open uh at uh downtown across from Birwood. Um, had a little growing pains with uh how busy they were when they first opened, but I think they figured it out. We were able to go there and enjoy a really great meal. The service was fantastic. The inside looks great. Um, such a such a giant leap from where it was. So, kudos to the owners and everybody for what they're doing. Um,

thank you to the 30 some odd people that did email us today about uh the ZBA. Thank you for sharing your um either your concerns or your questions or just your props for those people. Um, Jane, I think what you were trying to say earlier about excise tax goes back 50 years when and it's not a town of Franklin issue. It's what it's it's what people were sold as to what excise tax was supposed to be. No, I I knew it wasn't specific to Franklin, right? I think I think I think Jamie heard it as a Franklin thing, but Yeah. No,

I remember my parents talking about excise tax and that it was it was oh, it's a state thing and it's you're going to go to roads and it's going to go to help because that's, you know, a benefit of driving a car. And you know, Bobby and I were laughing that, well, was an excise tax also supposed to pay for the mass pike? And then once the mass pike was done, it was supposed to go away. It was supposed to go away. But that never happened. So I think people do remember. And then they teach their kids and they teach their grandkids. Then this sort of adds to the Well, it's not supposed to be just one more tax, right? That was supposed to be specific for roads. Apparently, it didn't happen. But

tax you forever. Well, but you know, it's like and and I hate vehicle excise tax, but [cough and clears throat] we can talk about that another time. Um, and I will finally I will my final comment would be um to all of the little girls out there who might be watching who are encouraged to go into math, encouraged to go into engineering, encouraged to follow STEM. you tonight. We now have a three femaleled ZBA in Franklin, right? So, three three incredibly qualified bright women in their fields predominantly predominantly male field, right? But they are uh the cream of the crop and they're giving their time to help Franklin. So to all of you little girls out there that are watching or maybe moms and dads that are watching, keep your kids in those math and engineering classes and tell those little girls of yours they can do anything. So thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Jean. Well, I had a daughter who was in the STEM program and I can say she got the most money of all the kids in, you know, who went through the college system. So they definitely incentivize uh women in in STEM. So it's great. So parents listening to that [laughter] think about it from the financial perspective. Um wanted to uh uh new items or whatever. I don't really understand um setting up the subcom uh subcommittees that we want to do. So we're going to do that. Well, we we just set up the the joint the joint and then we'll do the econom economic development. Okay. All right. Awesome. Mike's not here so I didn't want to Okay. I don't know when you're going to do them.

Oh, for economic development. I just I was in Stanford last weekend at this uh Pickle Ball America. That thing is freaking insane. If we have an open space, then you want to do pickle ball. I suggested Davis there two years ago, but I'm just honestly who knows what they're talking about. It would have been a cash cow. It's on the par possible plan, right? Until 11 o'clock and it's crowded. I heard. Yeah, I heard.

Uh just a couple more comments. Um one is about the uh the meetings. Um so yeah, a lot of people didn't maybe didn't don't attend like say finance committee, but I was looking online. People consume in different ways. I know I do. I go on YouTube and I watch it. There was 461 views um to date on that finance committee meeting. So people are are watching and I'm sure they'll get a lot a lot more. Actually, I looked at one even it was previous like a few years later and that that had a lot less views. So, I think people are watching these meetings. It just may be consuming it differently. Final comment. Um it seems like so long ago, but there was a citizen comment that um that mentioned me my name. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All about it. [clears throat]

Oh, forgot it. I I'm not I'm not going to address the citizen comment. Uh what I am going to what I am going to say is that that just so people in the in the public understand that there is something called the Massachusetts State Ethics Commission. Um they advise um town councils, you know, public employees on on following the um ethics rules. Um you know, I've consulted with them multiple times actually kind of um have a friend on that uh uh ethics commission now that we've we've spoken many times um and that um you know making sure that I'm covering everything. So, I'm just so everyone is is clear, there's a I'm a town counselor today. There's times when I'm I might be an individual um and I have I retain all the individual rights as an individual. I can't represent um the town. I can't represent um anyone else other than myself, but as a member of town council, um there's certain things that I'm not allowed to talk about and so I'm not going to talk about them.

That's all I want to say. Okay. Great. and motion to adjourn. Oh, wait. [laughter]

Just a couple. That's [laughter] all right, buddy. That's all right, buddy. Uh, just just a couple things. Uh, I want to congratulate my daughter Lara and uh Joe. They got engaged on Saturday. So, that was a that was a pleasant uh pleasant uh surprise. Um and um I'd like to uh it's a little bit of a sad note, but my good friend Mike Batoni uh passed away a week ago s um Sunday uh last Sunday. So he's been a a lifelong resident of Franklin. Um a Franklin Panther forever. He probably coached well he coached with me for 10 years but before that he probably coached at least 30 years. I think the only time he didn't coach he went to Nipmunk once for a head coaching job but he was always at Franklin after that. And uh it it showed it showed when uh his awake was Friday night and you had to wait an hour and a half in line because all his players came back to to just to pay their respects. He was a great guy. He'll surely be missed. Uh and to the family to the Baton family, I my um condolences to them and his wife and his son and daughter. So, um, outside of that, um, I'll take a motion to

Sorry, I was early on that motion to