Planning Board - Regular Meeting

That's that's fine. We don't have to see you. We all know what you look like. Can you hear me? Okay. Since I just went through a big update. Yeah. Fine. Can hear you. Great. Cool. All right. I'm gonna let everyone in. Yeah. Let them in and then we'll start. I just figured out. There you are, Joe. Yeah. There's a camera block like you said on the top. You slide it over. You can see me. No. Listen, I may be blonde, but I I'm smart at some stuff. I know you got it. All right, guys. We are live so whenever you're ready.

Okay. Zoning board of appeals uh for December 18th will come to order. Note to the residents, all residents are welcome to attend the public meetings in person to view the live meeting remotely. Citizens are encouraged to watch the live stream on Franklin Town TV YouTube channel or the live broadcast on Comcast channel 9 or Verizon and Verizon 29. Channel 29. To listen to the meeting remotely, citizens may call in using this number 1 19292056099. To participate in the meeting remotely, citizens may join Zoom using the information provided below. Meetings uh recorded and archived by Franklin TV on the Franklin Town Hall TV YouTube channel and shown on repeat on channel 9 and channel 29. The Zoom link is uh the ID is 935-95741047. Uh that's the ID number and the Zoom link is zoom us I I don't know what 93595741047. All participants will be automatically muted upon joining the meeting. In order to speak, the uh participants will need to select the raise hand function to request to be unmuted. All speakers will be required to state their full name and street address before commenting. Uh announcements from the chair don't really have any. We we do have a meeting tonight on the 18th for one thing. uh 33 Elm Street and we're going to have another meeting on uh December 23rd at 6:30 uh p.m. live in the town hall. Citizens are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes on a matter that is not on the agenda. In compliance with general laws chapter 38 section 20,

the open meeting law, the zoning board cannot engage in uh dialogue or comment on a matter raised during citizens comments. The zoning board asked the department director other to review the matter. Uh approval first thing on second third thing on the agenda approval of the minutes. Uh members have been provided with the dis copy of the December 4th, 2025 minute meeting minutes and I'll entertain a motion. If you haven't had a chance, I'll give you a minute or two to look at it and uh then I'll entertain a motion. Has everyone seen the minutes?

Yes. Mr. Chair, I make a motion to accept the minutes uh for December 4th, 2025. Before we do that, I just want to make an announcement that we're on Zoom and we have members uh Joseph Halligan, Janelle Lang, uh Aie Aso, and myself, Bruce Hunard. Okay, Aie, go ahead and make the make the motion. Like to make a motion to accept the minutes for Thursday, December 4th, 2025. Seconded. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none. Roll call vote. Um, Janelle, yes. Archie, yes.

Chair votes, yes. Okay. 7:30m. You want to read this off, General? Sure. Uh, 33 Elm Street, G. David Iverson, Trustee. The applicant is seeking to construct a single family home that has 123.92 ft of frontage where 200 ft is required and with a right side yard setback of 26.5 ft where 40 ft is required. The building depart the building permit is denied without a variance from the ZBA. Okay. Uh one of those setbacks has changed. I think it meets the 40 foot requirement. Attorney Cannon, nice to see you on on TV.

Good evening to the chair, members of the board. Nice to see everyone. Yes. Nice. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah. Yes. Thank you for this opportunity when we were last before the board. Hang on one minute. Ted Janelle, u have you have you been to every one of these meetings or at least reviewed the one that you missed? I think you missed the very first one. I don't think I missed any of these ones.

Okay. All right. Go ahead, Ted. I'm sorry. No problem. No, thank you for clarifying that. I know it's been a long journey. I'm here tonight with uh Brian Hasset from Gary and Halman. Um when we were last before the board, um we had presented a plan uh to address some drainage concerns. U the board raised some very good questions. Um and Mr. uh Dipmore at 35 Elm Street raised some very good questions. And so the board charged uh us to um have G&H meet with Mr. Ditmore uh which they did. uh and to try to make some revisions to the plan based on his feedback which they have done and uh so if I may um turn things over through the chair to uh Brian Hasset uh to uh take the board through his conversation with Mr. Ditmore and some of the changes to the plans to address the concerns that were raised there.

Sure. Go right ahead. Uh sure. Hi guys, my name is Brian Hasset civil engineer for Gary and Holland. Um, if I could uh share uh my screen, I can pull up the uh the plan um and it's most uh uh recent revisions. I got to tell you, I'm a I am a horrible millennial. I can't tell if I am sharing my screen yet or not. Hasn't come up yet.

Okay. Sorry. Did you guys Did you receive the the request for it? Yeah. Notice it.

There we go. Okay. So, um sorry. Yeah, we went out there and uh we met with the Abu um you know, he he was expressing the you know, concerns that he had mentioned uh in the in the previous meeting. Uh those were that um his uh the water will flow, you know, down this hill um travel uh onto his property before uh coming back onto uh 33 um Elm. Uh you can kind of see a bit of a swale that natural swale that's in here um already. Um and his concern was, you know, if it's coming back in through this way down through this direction here, um then is isn't that retaining wall going to to block the flow of water from returning uh to, you know, 33 and essentially, you know, function as a dam uh and and and create ponding on his property, potential water damage. Um so uh we we we went through um an analysis, storm water analysis for this. So I was able to to talk with him about that. Um and in uh similar to to the other revisions that we made um prior with the uh the roof grain infiltrators and the um you know additional contour spot shots and swailes. Um you know it's we there's still something that you know can be done um as opposed to just us saying we don't think that it would. Um, so what uh we were able to do is uh we we talked about um realigning this wall here. Um this is in some realigned position, but it had flared off more uh in this direction that you can see right there. Um and then that's what he would be thinking would be causing the dam. So if we realigned the retaining wall and we inserted a swell into there that would direct the wall the water to to you know come back towards the center of 33 elm then that you know would would allow the

conditions to remain uh the same and I won't I can't speak for uh for Mr. But um I do believe he he received the the you know wall realignment and the swale uh positively um so that was um that was our meeting uh with the butter. Okay. I think I see him on the call anyway. I'm sure if he's got Yes. Yeah. He he did mention Daring. He did a type of

So, unfortunately, I cannot quantify other than the the big trench down the side of my yard where the water has eroded the soil. Um I really can't say, you know, how many gallons per minute of water will flow down on a worst case basis. But, uh I mean, I would have taken a picture, but the last time this happened, you know, we got the river down there. I was out in my bathing suit shoveling a trench trying to get the water to drain away from my basement door. Um, uh, will the swale work? I've got my fingers crossed. Um, it's a good idea. It's a great proposal. It's just an accomplish.

So, I guess the only thing I can do is just, you know, cross my fingers and hope. Yeah. I mean, the engineers are saying it's going to work, and that's that's what they do. So

I I suppose if there's I don't know if they if there's any liability on the engineers after you know I guess it goes I'm going to tell you if I was so inclined to approve this I would make sure that the uh that the builder whoever it turns out to be as the engineers certify that they everything has been put in according to the plan that they presented so that there's no question that the engineer is going to say well they didn't build it the way I put it on there because they're going to have to certify that it's built in the way it was approved or the way it was presented. So, I don't know if that gives you any solace or anything, but you know, also present in our meeting was a guy named Kyle McNamera. I'm not sure if you guys know him, but he says he's going to be the builder or hopefully going to be the builder.

Um, and I do have his cell phone number, so I will be calling him at 2 am in the morning if we do get flooding. Yeah, I shut mine off at night, so you can call me anytime you want to, you know, but Okay. But, you know, I mean, and I'm glad you brought his name up because I just want to point out that he's been building in Franklin for a while.

Uh, and he had he's got a couple of nice houses he built up on Summer Street right at the curve right past the Armenian camp. And I guess one of the houses that he built there, both of them have really sloped driveways. I question whether they meet the 10 or 15% whatever they're supposed to be for the first 40 ft, but I've been assured that they do. But my understanding is that there's a quite a runoff from the two driveways that are side by side there that come out on the on the you know go down the hill and go into the neighbor's yard. But that guy's in a hole. You know, you're a little bit different. You're probably a little bit more up than you know whatever. But you know, and I guess that he the builder actually passed on the house before they had an occupancy permit. So, it kind of left left the building commissioner high and dry about what he could do, you know, as far as fixing anything. So, I mean, that's where it stands right now. I guess uh there's a guy up there that has problems. So, I I don't really, you know, I'm not sure I have much faith with uh Mr. McName whatever whatever his name is. I never met him, but you know, I'm just going by what I've been told. So,

but anyway, just wanted to get that point out there about what happened up here. Well, I can I can offer some more information at least as far as um you know the the the water flowing uh to to Mr. Ditmore um is is through our calculations also um you know not not just you know having the the wall and soil move through our calculations we are finding that uh overall less water is being sent uh from from 33 Elm 2 to uh to to 31 L. Um, I can show you. Uh, yeah, but I'm at 35.

So, that's good for my neighbor Andy, but uh I'm sorry about that. That's all right. Yeah, it's appreciated, but not not as much of a concern over my side.

Um, hang on a second. my uh this is frustrating. Um okay. So, uh what I can show you here is this is the um the wershed areas for what would be the post. Um the um PR1 is what drains all down to AP1. That's Elm Street. Um PR2 goes to um AP35. Um that's 35 and then 31 um goes to 31. Um PR3 is is is that small area. So um in the post after construction um everything that you see in this area here is flowing down and only the PR2 and PR4 are areas that end up flowing onto 35 elm

which they currently do which they correct which they currently do. But um what what happens is ordinarily uh water that lands here and it would you know start to drain down this hill, it would find its way over onto 35. Whereas now with this new grading, it gets intercepted

um back here um and it will it'll come in here and then as you can see it'll either go from here down this way down to the driveway or it'll go down and around this way um over here. Uh where ordinarily, like I said, it it would have gone um to 35, but now in this situation it's it's not. Um, that was one of the the the things that we were finding, you know, in our analysis kind of that was I mean it was really the the whole purpose of the analysis was to determine how much more or less or the same amount of water was was would be going to either 31 or 35 L.

Okay. Can I can I ask you a quick question while you're just talking about that? At the end of the swale at the end of the swale you got down near the street. Yep. Where does that water go from the soil? Does it just go out into the street or is there a catch basin there or something that's going to catch it? It would it would go it would go into the street. Yes. Is there any catch basins? Is there any drainage on the street? I I can I can answer that if you'd like. Yeah, it's on the other side. Andy says, "Yeah, what it does is it would run it would run from the left of the lot uh or from the uh it would run east down the road all the way down past to the corner of Partridge and Elm. Okay.

That's the nearest That's the nearest catch basin and it floods my front yard, which is a good time, you know. I just get uh I get lots of street uh water, right? Yeah. Okay. But there's no drainage in the street that they could tie into. Just another question for the engineer. Could you put some sort of a drywall at the end of that swale to catch some of the water? I know it might just fill up. I'm not sure what what the ground is there, but Yeah, I mean that is that is something that that is a possibility that I could do. I would have to um I mean I I guess I I am the engineer, but I'm I'm not the owner of this project, so I I wouldn't be able to make that decision myself. Um but

well, listen, we can put it we can put it in the decision that they look at put, you know, that they put a catch basin or a, you know, a wet well or something, you know, whatever you want to call it, a dry well to catch the water that comes out of a swale. That would be that would be funny. Yeah, it would it would help. I'm sure it would help. Okay. Anyway, all right, engineer, all set? Yeah, sure. I mean, if you have any any other questions or comments or concerns or anything else I might be able to explain. Okay, we'll wait until we get around to the comment section here. Other questions? U Ted, you all set? Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Okay. Uh I'll open it up to the board now. Um Janelle, any questions or comment?

Just comments. I um I appreciate the change to um the setback, the side setback. Um recognize that the front the frontage is a pre-existing non-conforming condition that the a budding properties also have. and um and see it as a a a project that will add a a nicely sized single family home to Franklin. Um and while doing so um while not completely eliminating storm water concerns for the abutters, it uh as proposed, it makes them better. Um,

so that is uh those are my comments on the project and I think it's uh uh I I appreciate the changes that have been made to date. Thank you. AI any questions or comments? I don't I mean he's the the uh engineer has addressed most of the questions or most of the comments that we made in previous meetings. Um, I'm just glad to see that he was able to fit it in and uh take away that sideyard relief that he was looking for and get everything he needed into that unit. So, good job, Joe. Any questions or comments?

No, I've expressed my thoughts thoroughly over the last couple of meetings. I'm glad they went that extra effort, which is hard to get people to do to uh control any uh water that may be an issue, but uh looks good to me. Thank you. Did uh Megan ever show up yet? She not on the call. Casey. No, I don't see I only get I don't think I get all the names that come up anyway. Okay. All right. With that being said, I'll entertain a motion to uh close the public hearing. So moved.

Second it. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? You know, I do intend to to to make sure that uh we put a proviso in there or condition that the engineers go out during the construction phase of the drainage ditches and the walls and everything else to make sure that they put in properly and that they and that I'm sorry. I was going to say I'm not sure if you see my hand. It's been up for a little bit. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see it. I didn't see anybody's hand. Oh, there it is. Andrew, I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's okay, Bruce. I I appreciate it. Um I, you know, I I was May I speak for a moment? Sure.

Okay. Um I just wanted to you know, thank you again for allowing me to speak. It's it's been said by you that a variance has rarely if ever been granted regarding frontage. You're now considering to being asked to do one that's approximately 40% short of the current requirements. So if you to allow this, it sets a precedent for other situations. And as you know, I'm in the real estate business, which means I have contacts with other builders and real estate agents. I know of two of them who live within a mile of this lot and me who are anxiously waiting for a positive result as they are likely to do research similar to mine. Elm Street's an older road and as as many others are in Franklin. This often means that these older plans such as this that predate zoning changes of about 50 years ago, they're going to seek to use this uh if it were passed to contact owners and of currently non-buildable lots and make offers on them subject to getting an approval by this board and using this proposed approval as precedent to make these lots that were not previously buildable now buildable. the current matter is has been portrayed as unique, but it it it's it's not and it will be duplicated again and again. I implore you to reject this application and suggest that the owner take the correct route which would seek revision to the zoning bylaws in general and and to as to a benefit to himself as well as the town as uh as as Janelle had said. You know, if you know, I would suggest that this is the role of the planning board, the town council, and other relevant boards to look at this in its entirety rather than to dismantle this piece by piece with the with this approval being the first step in doing so. I'm deeply concerned, as others are, about the dripby method of changing what is likely took years to approve and review. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Go ahead. Yeah. Uh I agree with this with this followup. But if those other lots come forward and were created into a nonconforming lot by the town that created those lots in a mishap similar to this, I think that's a different scenario. but just smaller lots all around town to come forward would not have the history behind it that would allow others to be approved similar to this.

It's a it's a unique situation. The town created this lot by issuing permits to the abuing properties. The there was one owner that owned all three lots and the town created this lot unbuildable. It wasn't just a lot left behind and uh never built on and forgotten about.

Actually, actually, it it was I mean, the seller sold the lot and then left it behind. They the and I believe it's the current owner's pro uh father who left it behind. And there are other lots that I've done research on that would fit that similar thing where it it was originally a plan and then just nobody ever did anything with that lot and then it got zoned out. So that's that's incorrect to exist.

There was a larger lot left over and yes a lot was sold 31 I believe which should have never been allowed to be built. The town mistakenly granted that building permit, thus leaving the center lot unbuildable. It should have been combined. The town should have caught that and they never did. So, it's a little different than a regular lot sitting around town that somebody created their own hardship.

That's correct. The town This guy didn't create his own hardship. This guy actually got it reszone. Didn't get it reszoned, but he had the lots cut out in time. The trouble is is he waited, you only get protection for eight years. He waited longer than that. Uh, you know, it could have been considered, you know, but the attorney agreed that it wasn't a pre-existing non-conforming lot. It was just that it was a lot that was built. The other the other houses were built. I'm not sure, Andy, when your house was built, but I think I heard somebody say 1980 something or 1990. And then uh I don't know about Mr. the Dipmo when when that house was built, whether he's the original owner or not, but they would they were both done quite a ways after the 1960 uh when they did the subdivision of the land. So,

you're right. 89.

Yeah. Okay. 89. Well, that was still 29 years after the lots were created. So, you know, this one's just going to be a little bit longer. You know, listen, I don't really take a lot about precedent. People say, "Oh, you set precedent. you did this, you did that. This there's circumstances for everything. This lot has sewer. I know there's some other there's some other lots that were up on uh Daniel Street that somebody tried to get. And it was funny because it was a somebody from Gary and Halen who went back and found out that the lot was really a a pre-existing non-conforming lot because of how it got created. But there are a lot of lots that are undersized because they were created that way by the owner, not by the town. Like Joe says, it was it was something that was created by the town after they did it and they didn't follow through. Maybe nobody knew you had eight years after to get it done. Maybe that came up later. I don't know. But 89 and you know, and then 90 whenever those the other lot was built there, the other house was built. It certainly wasn't created by the owner. You know, he got building permits. He built the houses. You guys bought them and you've been living there. I mean, I can understand you're worried about the impact on your property, but this lot here, you know, if nothing ever was done with it, you're still going to have drainage going on your on some of the properties, you know. So, I'm just hoping that uh when they do this that they redesign everything or design it so that it doesn't uh affect your property any more than it currently does. So, but anyway, I don't know if that answers your question or not, but what we're under discussion, right? Is that what we were? Anything else, Andrew, you want to rebut or anything?

No, I appreciate the time. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. With all that being said, uh, we didn't take a vote yet to close. No, I know. I'm going to I'm going to call for the vote. We took we closed the public hearing and then we had or did we close the public hearing because we took discussion. So, that was a little bit of discussion. Yeah, we didn't vote on closing the public hearing yet. Okay. So, now we're going to vote on close the public hearing. It's going to be a roll call vote. Uh Janelle, yes. Pache, yes. Chair votes yes. All right, I'll entertain a motion. Uh I'm going to make a motion, but please bear with me. I'm dealing with a coffee cold, so

Yeah. Okay. like to make a motion to uh grant the variance for 33 Elm Street uh to give them front yard relief of uh 76 ft.0 76.08 08 ft relief front yard um down to uh 123 something 123.92.

Yeah. where 200 ft is required. Um as shown on a drawing with revision date of uh 1211 2025 and the revise the wall and add the swell uh and it's entitled uh building permit plot plan 33 Elm Street Franklin, Massachusetts uh drawn up by Gary and Howland uh Inc. of Franklin, Massachusetts. Um, with the fact that there is no s no sideyard setback as originally called for in when they brought this to us. Um, and that there is a drywall that or drywall that is added to the end of the uh swell uh at the front of the property where it meets the road.

And as a condition of the approval that the uh builder have the uh engineering firm come out and uh look at it during construction to make sure they're building it correctly and that they certify it when they're done with an asville. Is that fine, Ted? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right. Motion made. Seconded. Motion made and seconded. All those in favor, roll call vote. Aie, yes. Janelle, yes. Chair votes yes. I'm feeling good at Christmas, so good luck.

Thank Thank you all very much. And just thank you for the process. I know it was long. Thank you for the neighbors for their comments. I do believe at the end a much better plan uh through the process was uh finally decided upon. Uh so thank you very much for your patience and your input. Appreciate it very much. Best wishes to everyone for the holidays. You also Thank you. Thank you. Casey, anything come before the board? No, Mr. Chairman.

Okay. Future agenda, we have a meeting on uh next Tuesday at 6:30 p.m. live at the town hall. Uh we'll be discussing 444 East essential Street. Um anything else anybody want to comment on before that? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion for adjournment. So moved. Second it. Motion moved. Motion made and seconded for adjournment. Non-debatable. All those in favor? Roll call vote. Janelle, yes. Hi, yes. Chair votes yes. Thank you everyone. Good night. See you Tuesday. See you Tuesday. See you Tuesday.

All right. always mistakes. Well, he thought that time always would forgive each transgression for his intentions.