Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Good evening everyone. I'd like to bring the January 22nd, 2026 ZBA meeting to order. My name is Gus Brown. Just identify yourself. My name is Gus Brown. I'm the Franklin building commissioner. Tonight we have or it is my pleasure to have two new members that were voted into the ZBA last night or ratified into the ZBA last night from the Franklin Town Council. And I'm going to turn it over to the board to the board right now. And you're going to do election of officers, chairperson, vice chair, and clerk. So take it away.

Three full-time appointments limited to that. Can I nominate Janelle as chair? I can't vote. What? I can't vote. I know that. You can't do You can't participate. Okay. I do I have to make a motion or can I just nominate Janelle? You can nominate. All right. Nominate Janelle Lang for chair of the ZBA. I'll second that nomination. Accept. Great. Excellent. So, so take you can take a vote. You can vote for yourself. So, all right. All in favor? I.

All right. So, now at this point, Janelle, you're you're in charge from here on out the election. Great. Thank you, Mark.

Yeah. Promise not to swing it too much. Um, I would like to nominate Jennifer Williams to be vice chair. Second that nomination. All right. Accept the nomination. All right. All in favor say I. I. I. All opposed? None. All right. And then, um, I'd like to nominate Iselle Carter to be clerk. Second the nomination. I'll accept. All right. All in favor? I

I none opposed. Cool. We have a new board. All right. Um our agenda this evening, I'll kick it off. Uh this evening's meeting is being held at the Franklin Municipal Building in the second floor council chambers and on the Zoom platform. A note to residents, all citizens are welcome to attend public meetings in person. To view the live meeting remotely, citizens are encouraged to watch the live stream on the Franklin Town Hall TV YouTube channel or the live broadcast on Comcast channel 9 and Verizon channel 29. To listen to the meeting remotely, citizens may call in using this number 1 19292056099. To participate in the meeting remotely, citizens may join a Zoom using the information provided on the agenda. Meetings are recorded and archived by Franklin TV on the Franklin Town Hall TV YouTube channel and shown on repeat on Comcast channel 9 and Verizon channel 29. All participants on the Zoom will be automatically muted upon joining the meeting. In order to speak, participants will need to select the raise hand function to request to be unmuted. All speakers will be required to state their full name and street address before commenting. Announcements from the chair. Um I actually have a couple notes just um in anticipation if this was the case that I was lucky enough to be the chair of this board. Um, this is a board that works in the gray areas. We evaluate each request that comes before us with our shared professional expertise, with the expertise of town officials and peer

reviewers, and with the perspectives and lived experiences of our fellow residents. Um, I am an optimist and someone who always strives for the best outcome possible in any given situation. But the reality is that it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time. Space is personal. People's environments are personal. Um we will try to make the best decisions we can with the information that we have uh in each given instance. And please remember that we are residents like you and we volunteer our time to the town of Franklin. Some ground rules for our board. Um, we are a board of five with five individual inputs and different perspectives that we're bringing to this. Um, and with three voting members, though we we value all the inputs equally, each decision we make should come from a good place with the information that we have. If we feel we need more information before making a decision, we should all feel comfortable to ask for it. But we should not extend timelines unnecessarily. Please uh fellow board members review the materials ahead of time and be prepared to ask questions and discuss. Plan to meet every other Thursday in person with a hybrid option for applicants and residents. Um does this time work for everybody? 7:30 p.m. on Thursdays.

Yes. Joe? Yes.

Great. Um if there are no agenda items or if there is a major schedule conflict, we will cancel the meeting um or reschedule if needed. And in rare circumstances, we may meet fully remotely as long as is it still allowed by the state. Suggestions for the applicants out there. Uh, please be as clear as you can on your applications and be prepared to read your responses at the hearing. Make your case. This is your opportunity to prove why an exception to our bylaws should be made. You need to justify it fully and clearly show that there is no hardship to the town as a result. Understand that we may have a queue of items to review and sometimes you can't get on the next meeting. Talk to your neighbors ahead of time or your butters. Um, letters of support are always read and helpful. If documents are received to the board within 48 hours of a meeting, I wouldn't expect this board to review them fully and we may continue to the next available meeting opening. Ground rules for open hearings. If there are a number of items on the agenda or multiple people in the council chambers, speakers will be limited to no more than three minutes to ask a question or present a viewpoint. Uh, and the board may or may not be able to answer that question. Questions will be received in person or via Zoom. And we will abide by a professional and respectful code of conduct in these chambers. All right. There's some introductory remarks. Um approval of the minutes. This is

unique in that we have two sets of minutes before us. Um on December 18th, uh I believe Megan, you weren't at that, but Joe, you were. Were you able to read those minutes? Yes. Um is it okay if just the two of us approved them? Yes. Okay. you make a motion to approve. All right, I'll second it. So, we'll accept those minutes of December 18th.

Unrelated, but go as a preliminary matter. I just wanted to I'm Mark Sra. I'm the Franklin Town attorney for the time being. Um, I just wanted to extend an offer to you. I'm actually doing a workshop whether depending Monday night with the planning board on holding a public hearing. I'm happy to do the same for you at a convenient time. I do have a uh a handout on it, a one-page handout that summarizes it all and I can get that to you in advance to Gus.

Okay. Thank you, Attorney Serell. Um the other set of minutes is for December 23rd and these minutes are very lengthy. Um I uh have not gone through them every word by word and I think it's important for that set of meetings to make sure those minutes are accurate. So I'm going to withhold approval of those minutes till our next meeting to make sure that h

just table to the next meeting. Yeah. So, we'll table it. We'll make sure we read through them in detail. All right. Um, the first item on the uh agenda for review is uh time being approximately 7:30 p.m. uh 23rd 23 September Drive. Timothy and Jenny McGee. applicant is seeking to construct an attached ADU with a garage that is 15.5 ft from the right side yard setback where 40 ft is required. The building permit is denied without a variance from the ZBA. Is the applicant present? All right, you can please come forward and then uh give us an overview of your application. Um, thank you all for your time. Like I should start by saying I hate public speaking, so please bear with me. Um, I'm Jenny. This is my husband, Tim. We live at 23 September Drive in Franklin. We recently moved in in September and my mom, who is sitting behind us, my parents moved in in October. Um, we are requesting permission to build a 900 square foot ADU with an attached garage. Um, the reason for the variance is because my parents basically gave up their lives that my brother and I had opportunities. So now we're trying to repay it and part of that is wanting to take care of them. Um, my parents are both in their late 70s. My mom has had double knee replacement and riddled with arthritis. Um my dad couldn't be here tonight. He's actually watching our two toddlers at

home. Um before we even settled on Franklin, we were trying to find the perfect location, one that could accommodate our family, my parents, and would give my parents kind of exactly what they wanted just because that's what they deserve. And we spent over a year trying to find something that would work for us. And we settled on Franklin because we kind of fell in love with the town. It's very familyfriendly. Um, it's a big town, but it feels small. It's a much better school system for our kids. So, even before we made an offer, we were trying to decide whether or not the property would work for us with the anticipation that my parents would eventually be moving in with us. And, you know, as we understood the accessory dwelling unit bylaws, we we thought that we could at least get 10 ft from the property line to to build something in the right side of the property. So that kind of made us feel more comfortable putting in an offer. Um, but once we moved in and we kind of saw the help that my parents needed and and kind of how our family situation would work and just given the neighborhood in general, we felt like it was better to have the ADU be attached to the home. Um, we thought we had the abutters in mind so that we could get further from the right yard set back. Um, it's better for my kids. I don't have to send them out in New England weather to get to my parents. If my parents need me, they don't have to go outside and then, god forbid, in case of an emergency, I can just access them quickly. Um

so with the house right now how it's proposed the sorry with the ADU how it's proposed the 15 and 1/2t setback that we're requesting is only on the back corner of the house at its closest point. Um so I don't know I think I blacked out so I'm going to see if my husband has can fill in the gap.

Yeah. Um, you know, like like Jenny said, it's just very important for us to try to get as far away from the setback as possible and try to um make as minimal impact as as as we can um considering, you know, um ours and and neighbors and um you know, we understood that the variance was really the only way that we could go about doing that. um to be able to attach um the ADU to the house versus being a detached unit which would as we understood it put us 10 ft from our house and get as close as 10 ft to the property line and that was something we did not want to do um because we know that that would have more impact on on the abuters than our neighbors. So, um,

we also, I don't know if anyone knows the neighborhood. It's a beautiful neighborhood. We didn't want to put in something that was detached and look looked haphazard and not intentional. So, that is another reason why we went with the attached so that it would look cohesive with all the other houses around us. Um, and again to what Tinder said, not go as far back into the rear of our property. That's helpful. Do you have a copy of the application with you?

We do. If you could read through the supporting statements for a variance is that so example for a what a literal enforcement of the provisions

um elderly parents living at residence one parent has mobility issues double knee replacement making it difficult and dangerous to use the stairs The other parent has already fallen down the stairs because he missed a step. Parents are currently located on the second floor of the residence and also provide childcare support to their two grandchildren ages four and two. This is basically saying that a little enforcement you would need to stay in the current situation that you have and it wouldn't be a you wouldn't be able to build this ADU. Is that correct?

As it's currently proposed. Yeah. All right. And then you feel that the the relief of the 15.5 uh feet bringing the set back to that uh would not be a substantial detriment to the public good. No. And I don't know is that where we talk about

that's the question C. It doesn't look like that was filled out. Um, design of the single level ADU is consistent with the neighborhood. We are using the same architect that designed the other homes in the neighborhood and there will be no impact to the current traffic in the neighborhood just because my parents already are living there. Okay. I'll open it up to the board for questions. Joe, questions, statements. Yeah, questions, statements.

Okay. I got emails over the town Franklin gov. You might have gotten them to the civic site. Yeah.

And one of them was a request from the Abuing neighborhood, which is 19 the exact, you know, right next door. and even put a phone number in there if anybody here would like to come out and look at the site, give me a call, check it out. I believe it was Monday, maybe Tuesday, I'm not sure what day it was. I did make that call. I drove up and asked permission to walk up the driveway. As I walked up, one of the people that lived there asked me to come in, check around the pool in the back to get an idea what their situation will be. The home they're proposing is absolutely beautiful. This is this is a dream for a lot of people. It's extremely beautiful. I did though drive around the neighborhood and all the homes that are there are all sitting on two acre lots. All of them are pretty much centered in the two acres. For some reason, these two homes are on a pie-shaped lot and they are exactly on the 40ft setbacks. myself personally, if I lived at 19 right now, would feel uncomfortable slightly living there because when you look out the back catching window, you're looking right into the neighbor's windows next door. It's relatively that close. All the homes have 100 200 feet between them. It's a they're very large estates. These for some reason when they were pie-shaped lots the developer built them they're extremely close by going to the 15 ft and I I just want to make it known and I probably can get a nod from all the people on the board here. I'm prodevelopment. I love to build things and I like to see things built. That's probably why I'm an alternate not a full-time render. I would have to say that this definitely

does not fit on that lot properly. adjacent to the neighborhood. It definitely doesn't fit the character of the neighborhood when you drive around. It would look like two clustered homes on a pie shape in the back. It would not allow 19 to have any privacy. There are no huge trees, buffers. There are some shrubs that were put there by the developer. It appears like those shrubs might be being taken out. Uh if not, they're only like six, seven feet high. And I think your structure is a lot higher if this ADU was on the other side. Whether it needed a a relief or not would be fabulous in my opinion. I was there. I walked into the kitchen, looked out their kitchen window, and to have this, I don't want to say monster on the side, it would really probably affect that house greatly. the view, the woods, the trees. And I don't think anybody who purchased homes at the time wanted something clustered. It looks like whoever bought those homes had the dream of having space and they bought two acre lots, which are pretty goodized lots. Uh that that's all I really want to say. I again, if it was on the other side and and required a variance, I'd be all supportive of because the other house now is hundreds of feet away on the next lot. Not the lot hundreds of feet away, but the house sitting on the lot is that much farther away. If you thought this was going to be a contentious vote tonight, I would ask the members to possibly put this on another agenda and have you girls go up and take a look for yourself. But I can assure you, as someone who would like to see a permit pulled and something built, just doesn't fit the lot next to that house so close. someone in that swimming pool. They have a swimming pool. It's

probably 10 ft off the lot line because I don't think a pool has to be 40t off. Someone would be looking right down at the pool. Uncomfortable situation. I know if I live there. Beautiful project though. Beautiful home. Beautiful project. If you could pick that whole thing up and just slide it over, it's great. I think the people who bought the homes in that neighborhood for what they paid and twoacre lots bought them knowing they have these use huge setbacks that they don't have to have someone encroaching close to their homes. Again, I'm an alternate. It's my opinion. I'm just expressing what I saw. These three women here will have to make the decision. Thank you.

Thank you, Joe, Megan. Um, so I uh also uh responded to that email and went out and walked the property today at at um 11:00 a.m. and um I feel the same way about it. It looks great. Very nice neighborhood. It's uh real tight, you know, right there. And um so agree with a lot of a lot of the same stuff. I would just say if and you know and I'm not a voting member associate but in my opinion I think like if the if this was like you know moved kind of like over a little bit uh or redone that would that would just make sense to me. But that that's all I have to say about that. I want to ask um Isabelle and Jen since you were just appointed last night, have you had time to look at it

and and take a look at the drawings? I spent a little time. All right. Your thoughts as well?

Uh my thoughts are without having been out to the site yet, um I sort of imagine that it's tight to the a butter to the next door neighbor. Um, I noticed that it it is strange that the the house is not cited central to the plot that you I think you've got 70 ft on the opposite side and um it's unfortunate that your septic field is on that side. Otherwise, that would have been a I think a better location to to maybe add on. Um, but I think I would I would like to maybe take a drive past and see what the feel of the neighborhood is. Um, I think Joe and Megan both make a really great point with that regard.

Um, through the chair, I have a couple questions. Um, to the applicant. Is your architect here tonight? No. No. Okay. Um my first question is um in terms of the well did did you know did your architect inform you that if you did a standalone structure like it probably would have been accepted by right like the state's pretty generous with um allowing ADUs by right in a lot of different circumstances. Yes. With exception. So, you're fully aware of of where all the opportunities lie to have an ADU granted? Yes.

Without going through this process? Yes. But again, it was going to be so close to the property line and go further back into our property that it was just going to look awkward for the neighborhood.

Okay, that was my first question. Second question is, is the reason why you didn't go on the the I'm guessing looking at the site plan and the approach to the site and the contours that you're trying to go off of your existing driveway um to access a you know to have a vehicle access the building um and garage that your septic's on the opposite side of the site which may be the reason why you didn't explore the side of the site that has a 70 foot setback. So there's wiggle room there versus on the side that you proposed it. Can you just clarify really what you did explore in terms of attaching to the house and and in and doing due diligence and trying to have it fit within the allowable setbacks. So where the driveway is now um we wanted to keep it there so that my parents could still access have access to the driveway instead of having to go through our house to get to their house. Um they are pretty independent. Um the septic is on that side. We have to add one more row for the additional ad. So that was going to give us the space there.

But yeah, we were, you know, we weren't able to put it on that side because of the septic and um the fields there. So

um but you know as you mentioned we from everything we understood and talking um to building inspectors and architects engineers you know we we didn't have to go through this process we could have you know um just applied for that like you said the standalone ADU um but our biggest concern with that is that put us even closer um to that side setback. The the reason we came asking for the variance was that it enabled us to get further away from the sideep back.

The left side of our house is also very steep. Like there's a ledge there. It's like black diamond steep. So I just don't even know how the driveway would like come down into the road.

Yeah. I don't think you could do a second driveway. it would you'd have to you'd have to you know either park in your current driveway and walk across the front of your house to access a building without a garage, right? Like um I'm just curious as to what you explored that would have fit within the allowable setback so that you could have had an ADU by right and not gone through this process. My second question um through the chair to the applicant is um what what is the second story of this ADU being used for? What's the purpose for the height from the floor plan? From what I can gather, this is a singlestory unit, but on the elevations, there's a pretty steep roof with a window. And I am sure when you look at the full elevation of the house, it's it's trying to balance proportion and, you know, window openings and whatnot, but especially being so close to the neighbors, I'm curious as to um what sort of massing and overall height you might have looked at considering the scale of the ADU itself relative to also your home. Of course,

it's a single story. um no intention of having a second floor or even storage up there. I believe our architect was just trying to match the pitch of the addition to the um to the rest of the house.

Mhm. Um and uh through the chair um were any uh site sections sort of cut or explored or I guess I would like to request this if not um illustrating the relationship of the neighbors house and their um you know their grade their height of their house where their windows are relative to where uh your existing house and this ADU is being proposed. Um, in their letter, I believe they're concerned about shadow being cast and um, this is a a westfacing facade for them. It's an east facing elevation. So were sun studies of any um performed in any way sort of any analysis of impact to sort of shadow and light on the butters? No. Uh no a specific sun study wasn't done but out we have sliding doors that open up into our pool and we don't actually get that much sunlight that comes in in the morning. It's not until it reaches over like the really really tall trees that it comes in.

Um I didn't think in just my general observation of the the site in in Google Earth and whatnot that that light in particular would be an issue. I do think sight lines are affected potentially, but I was just curious if there was any sort of uh site section um available or if you could um provide one so that we really can understand the scale of your building, the ADU, relative to the neighbors house. um because the site plans provided don't provide that context outside of your site, at least the one in detail. There's the locust map, but there isn't the um relationship in the site plan um itself. I um am I am really conflicted here because this is all the best intentions and I fully understand why this is super necessary for you and your family and um and appreciate the need of of what what you're trying um to achieve here. and the property is so large that it's tough to see it get so close to the neighbor's property. Um it I just wonder if there were other compromises that could have been made on your end to allow it to happen within the setbacks. Um a I don't think I have enough information. I haven't had the time to

drive up there yet because it's been actually exactly 24 hours. Um um uh and and I would I would like to go up there myself to take a look. Um I'm sorry I'm so longwinded. I'm just trying to be thorough. Your architect did a fantastic job. Really appreciate what you're I can empathize. I really appreciate what you're trying to do here and it's for all the right reasons and it's in the right spirit and you're trying to do a really great thing. Um, so I want you to know that I fully appreciate that and understand that and um, all of my questions are um, really just trying to understand how we arrived here. uh knowing that sort of the bylaws exist in certain zoning districts, you know, for a reason in terms of required setbacks and and whatnot and to preserve neighborhood context. So, I'll stop there.

Okay. Just one last thing. I know we were talking about possibly putting an ADU 10 ft off. Gus, could you explain what the dimensional roof lines and stuff would be if it were to be an addition 10 ft off a single standing building? And I know there's a a calculation for 10 ft off and it makes a certain roof height through you, Madam Chair. Whatever the height to the mean part of the roof is, which is the average height of the roof, that's the distance it has to be off the lot line in a detached situation. So, can you explain then if they did go 10 ft off the lot line, how high would the roof line be? It's very difficult to determine that because of pitch the ballpark.

I'm just trying to compet to what they're building here. It really depends on what the um height on the first floor is and the inside of the house and what look they're looking for too. It's possible that it could be that they wouldn't have the option to build something as big as they're doing now if you were 10 feet off by appearance of the drawing. I wouldn't want to say for sure.

Okay. Okay. Can I just clarify what I think I just heard? So, if we go through the route of building a detached ADU, we may end up with exactly the same proposed unit just detached from our house, but now 10 ft from the abuter's property or yeah, the abuter's property, the the property. It's very possible depending on your roof line, your inside ceiling height,

but right now as we have it, we are 15 and a half just at the one closest point because on the side of our garage, it's like around 20 ft that we're giving, right?

I think the rule is if you're 10 feet off, it's one and a half times. So you just ballpark. I think your roof line would be 15 ft. I think this is higher than 15 what they proposed. So it would look dwarfed is what I'm trying to get to. If you went that route, you're legal to do it, but you were curious about trying to keep up with the character of this building. It would look like a little garage next to this monster home. It wouldn't blend in as well as this is. That's all I'm trying to say.

Yeah. The unfortunate thing is just this is a ticking time bomb with my parents for something more devastating to happen. So, we This sounds defensive and it's not how I want it to come across, but we are intending to build something for my parents because we have to. I understand and I I I I feel for you. Even if you were to say, "We'll move the septic system." I know it would be not correct to build on that side. I understand you're probably building on that side, too, because you can walk down into the breezeway or the other garage or the kitchen area, and it's common on that area. It's like a common area. Going on the other side, you're going to living rooms and bedrooms to enter. So, I understand why you're on that side.

Again, it's just a closeness. I'm having a hard time. Again, if they take a ride out, are we here? Eyes mean more than words. Attorney Sel. Madame Chair, I might suggest you ask whether the director Butters are present, and if so, if they would articulate what they're I will. I haven't asked my questions yet. Thank you.

Um All right. Thank you. Uh totally understand why having the single shared driveway, single curb cut, another driveway on the other side doesn't make sense. Having it on the other side of the house where the septic is, where the bedrooms are, doesn't make sense. um having it that's that's why we're here, right? Because the the one that's allowed by law is probably even closer to the abutters and doesn't fit with the scale of the neighborhood at all. And so you went down the path with the architect of what's better for your family is attached and that keeps it as far away from the abutters as possible. So understand I see that is why why we're here tonight with this application. um similar to what um Jen was asking about in terms of the options. Um you know, as as an architect, then I start looking at it and think, oh, could you, you know, make it just longer and narrow, right? Just to get a couple more feet off that edge. And I'm curious if you looked at that with the architect at all or is this like sort of this first pass of well we'll take it from 15 from 10 to 15 and 1/2 ft away from the property line. you know, could you get closer to 20 or it's just unfortunate that in any other neighborhood 15 and a half feet would feel fine away from the abutters, but in this whole neighborhood where there's 40 to 70 to 80 feet off the property lines, it's it does feel like it might stand out. So, I'm just curious if there's there were other options that

maybe looked at, you know, sort of a longer, narrower addition. So, you're correct. This is our first pass with our architect, we could definitely look into extending it, but having read the AB butters letter, I don't think that that is what they want either, right? Like the goal is not to just block off my whole property from them. Okay. I'm sorry. Sorry, did you ask another question? Nope. Okay. That was like had had you looked at that? Um

yeah, and and I would just add that, you know, we've we've certainly been in contact with the Butters and trying to um you know, do what is best for for both parties. And if that, you know, if if roof height would we didn't we didn't even think roof height would be a challenge because of you know we have trees that are in the back that are you know we talked to an arborist between 60 and 80 feet tall and we knew that once the sun gets above that it's certainly not the roof's not going to be in the way of that sun but certainly if we were going to say through the trees sun then we could understand that absolutely. Um, so we weren't could we we just kept thinking again trying to stay as as far away as possible. Um, but the roof height challenge didn't really um come across and two in the the um the plants you mentioned those the the green giant arborites and they might they might look seven feet tall from uh from the Abutters property because they're they're definitely on higher ground than we are. Um but they're they're certainly um closer to 20 feet and um everything we're hearing are going to get up to 40 50 feet one day and I know that's not today and it doesn't help uh you know right now but certainly um something that we had thought of in terms of trying to and we have some on the other side too that we had intended on bringing over um probably either way just to build up that border between um our our properties there.

Yes. So that was that was my next question is if those plantings would stay or it would be replicated or even en enhanced like could would you be proposing because it's not shown in the drawings um to a a landscaped screen. Um Oh definitely

100%. And that's that's our intent. That was one of the first things we noticed too, like when we went out to the pool that they're, you know, being on higher ground next to us, it's like a direct line into, you know, our pool area and we would love more privacy on that. Um, and we knew that, you know, this certainly the structure would would provide that, but we were also intending and knowing that these green giants are going to grow um again 40 50 feet tall from all accounts and everything that we're seeing. Um, hearing that they grow 5t a year, all the above was like, okay, this hopefully that that will suffice and potentially take the roof view out or at least minimize it um drastically. But again, we realize that they're also on higher ground. So it's, you know, if you look at those from our end, they're huge, but if you're on higher ground, they might, you know, not not look as big.

I know. Um, I got the emails and letters from the Butter and I I'm sorry I didn't acknowledge. Um, I usually try to email at least write back confirming receipt. Uh, but it was a crazy week. uh and definitely want to come out and see it. Um and I know there may be personal differences. Even just looking at the drawings and the plan, I was thinking, "Oh, I' I'd maybe like to see a green wall there rather than a a view into somebody else's pool." Um but uh want to go take a look at it. One of the concerns was um casting shadows and again with you're a budding house to the southwest of your property. I don't think that would be a problem, but that is something that the architect should easily be able to do is sort of do the solar study to show where the shadows are cast. It's very possible that um the size of this addition or maybe with a slightly modified roof that it completely falls within the shadow of your existing house and or maybe not cast onto their property. Um so that's worth doing. Um

definitely. So those are my questions and comments and um I would like to ask if the abuters are here. Can I make one last comment? It'll be for me on this project. Sure.

Uh it's a 40 foot setback. It would be easier to accept something if it was maybe a five or they're asking for five or 10 foot relief. If going out to 15 ft, they're asking for over 50% of the 40 ft. That that that's kind of extreme. Again, I think it's a beautiful project. If this a town forest or something like that, I'd be awful this project. It would be great because I know there's no neighbors next door. If you look at the art rendering here, I guess if I can look out my swimming pool in my kitchen and see the front of the home, it's a beautiful view. If you look at the side view, if their neighbors are going to be sitting in their pool, looking out their kitchen window, all they see is a big wall of black roof shingles. It's right on the It's right on here. You can look at it. They're $2 million homes. I'm sure these people didn't buy these homes to be staring at a big black wall that close to their home. Again, I I think I've said enough. That's my opinion. I do not have a vote on this, but I am extremely concerned.

Am I allowed to Thank you. Am I allowed to respond? Yeah. Go ahead and then we'll go to the

Okay. Um, I understand that it seems like it's a significant uh variance request, but not in the context of a standalone ADU. And I understand I completely understand that because it's attached, we we are following the the principal building setbacks, but I just want to be cognizant of a standalone ADU, this the setback is actually further, right? Like we're not we're not up on it, at least to my understanding. Um, so I just I don't know. I think I just wanted to like make that point that I understand it's significant when you think about it as a principle, but as an ADU,

we're just worried the alternative is much worse for all parties. All right. Thank you. You like to come up? Sure. Name and address, please. want to take the seat or um you can come to the mic. Just take this one. Yeah.

My name is Mark Biston. I'm from 19 September Drive. Um because there was so many changes um I was communicating through a form online to the board. Um I don't know that communications all went through. I appreciate you mentioning that. Got it. Thank you. Had two visits to the house. I appreciate that as well. New new members. Um I want to make sure So, I did, you know, print out um a couple visuals that I think you can reference when I'm going through a conversation. Thank you. Okay. These have all been provided to Casey as well.

So, again, it's Mark Pastana. I'm from 19 September Drive. Um, and I want to start by being clear with everybody here, Tim and Jenny included. Um, I'm here to genuinely find a path uh that works for both families, right? Um, I'm not here to oppose Tim and Jenny. Um, I'm here because I need to advocate for my own property, my own home, um, and for the setback protections that were put in place for situations exactly like this. Um, after reviewing the full proposal, which I appreciate the visibility that the ZBA provided me, it gave me a little time to react and understand what was happening in total. Um, a few things stood out that I think are important for us all to consider. Uh, first, the overall scale of the project is unusually large. Um, I have the total footprint at about 1390 square feet. um not including a covered porch area as indicated by the architect. Um the addition in aggregate appears to be and I mentioned this to Tim, it's probably the half the size of the existing footprint of the house. Um and that's not a criteria we have to worry about, but um a very high percentage of that footprint that's being proposed is invariance. So, I know Jenny said it's 15.5 ft at a point, but the reality is 80% of the construction, and I'm being conservative, is in a variance zone. Um, the way it's laid out is also a challenge. The garage, the added square footage, the ADU would create more than a 55 ft encroachment along our shared

property line extending from the sideyard where the garage would be all the way to the back and the most open part of my yard. Adding to the real impacts here, there's the long pitched roof lines. I appreciate everybody understanding what's happening there. I mentioned that to Tim as well and I think he'll work with us on that. Um those roof lines are reaching up to the dormerred second floor peaks. Um and it will winter sun and and these guys haven't had the chance to see it. Winter sun's on this side, summer sun comes up on this side and it will those peaks will impact the light coming into our corner of the house and our pool area. It's also going to impact their pool in the afternoon, but um you know adding to those pitch roof lines are reaching up to those dormer second floors. Um it will have an impact. I I said sunlight skyline what I see from Prospect down to prospect with the pine trees that will be gone from my property. Even as I invest heavily in landscaping, it's going to be hard. And I had Mark Dapoto out to look at the job. How do we elevate it? How do we get the appropriate landscaping to screen it? I'm going to put a significant investment to offset it. And I'm still not going to be free of those roof lines for years, you know, so it's going to take a long time and a lot of big trees to get there. Um, and almost I think the last point I want to make almost the entire addition is placed on the side of the house with the least available setback. It's basically off 40 even though the opposite side has 70 ft to work with and would be very

much in line with all of the other homes that are along the road. Taken together, the layout makes it hard to see a land-based hardship. It feels more like a design or construction choice versus a need that pushes everything towards my property and along the property line and creates the need for this variance. And because of the size, design and placement, it would have a substantial impact on us as a Butters and I invite you all to come see. Finally, um, as referenced through Joe and Megan, the project feels very shoehorned, uh, into a space that wasn't designed for this scale of expansion. The massing and location don't fit the pattern of countryside estates, where homes were thoughtfully placed with consistent setbacks to preserve the open wooded feel of the neighborhood. and that's a big part of what drew all of us to the neighborhood. I'm committed to working with them and I truly believe there's a way to achieve their goals without a variance of this magnitude. And I'm simply asking the board here today, sorry, to encourage a design that works within the setbacks requirements or at least makes some meaningful effort to do so. And I believe there are many opportunities to improve on where we are. I invite all of you to my vi visit my home and backyard and see firsthand how the current plan affects us as an abuter. And I appreciate those who have already come by. Thank you again for the time and attention you've given this. I want to end by saying that I truly

appreciate the board's you know role in balancing what homeowners want to do with their property and the protections that setbacks provide uh to a butters and to neighborhood the neighborhood as a whole. So thank you. Um I will ask to submit a letter. Uh a neighbor approached me, asked a few questions and wanted to provide his thoughts. Uh so I want to provide that letter to you as well from the Thomas family. Okay.

At 16 drive. I think this will be more of a neighborhood perspective on on what the impacts are neighborhood perspective versus Thank you.

And does Casey have one of these too? Okay. I just want to make sure make sure Casey had one.

Casey, sure. I've sent Casey a lot of stuff. Any questions? I apologize if I been very stressed about this and I hope you know it's it's it's something that's kind of weighed on me for weeks. Um, as soon as I learned about it, it hit me as I really got to understand what was happening, what was being proposed. I want to make this happen for them, but it's it's a it's going to impact the marketability of my home and I I'm just having a hard time getting past that. So, I appreciate your consideration. Any questions?

Well, thank you very much. Um, I think I would like to come out and take a look at the homes. I've driven through the neighborhood in the past, but not specifically looking at these two properties. Um, I know others might and I would encourage you to talk to the architect to see if there's other options with minimizing roof impact or maybe minimizing the the relief need on the side um while still being able to maintain the right home addition. Um, I know a lot of times these projects are iterative and so you may be able to adjust the layout. Um, and then um putting together uh a solar shadow study and a um planting plan. and and uh also just a site plan that shows more context of relationship to the neighboring properties would be helpful through the chair if you can provide that.

Can I can I add one thing? I I do think there is an opportunity for Tim and Jenny to consider attached um and perhaps the garage on the side of the driveway where it should be right. They want an additional garage. do that. That's a variance I think we can we can deal with. Um, but consider the attached ADU essentially on the other side of the home. As I said, lots of space there. There is a septic system towards the front of the house. It's on the front side, but we've seen some creative work where people can kind of angle off and create the addition. Um, and it looks very cohesive. Um, so there's an opportunity there. I just I encourage you guys to explore it. Um, and it would be in line with the other homes on on the road by taking that approach. Um, it would also the a butter on the other side. I'm I'm taking the garage on my side. I'll let the ADU go to the other side. But the butter on the other side, it's his garage side. So the impact to him and it would be on the side. It wouldn't be extending back. My biggest issue is it's it's looking into from my from my back door from my pool. I will see the structure, but it extends back well into my backyard. So that's and hopefully you see it through the visuals, but that that is the the challenges I face. So, I think there are ways to get them what they want with the attached unit even. Um, and I'm I'm willing to work with them to get the garage they want, third garage, put it in, uh, you can take that on the side. Coming out 15, it still gives me 25.

But to come 15 for more than 55 ft, I I've just I was calling a realtor. So, this is the kind of stress that it's it's driving and I just appreciate you guys understanding and thank you guys too.

Um, I would like to hear a motion to continue to our next meeting. Um, if that is when is our next February 19th. Yeah. Are there other there are other Oh, yep. Okay. Sorry. Is it okay?

Hi, my name is Brianna Moore House, October Drive. Been there for 23 years. Um, unfortunately, I never met either neighbors before, but felt it was really important to look into everything. Gus actually helped me out very last minute today. Did not plan on being here. Um, we were out of state very late last night. My daughter accepted to uh committed to a college. Um, and we were supposed to celebrate tonight and I told both of my children we had something more important to do. Um, and that's saying a lot. Um, I'm also an auditor by trade. So, one word I have held deeply to me personally and professionally is called reasonableness. and Joseph took my the words out of my mouth when the neighbors are asking for more than 50% to impede on the neighbor with the 40% variance. Um, when I look at that, I say that's not reasonable, that's not fair, and that's not okay. Um, other people will talk about why we bought in October Drive and why my husband and I did 23 years ago. And it's definitely the land, the space between the homes. Um, that's a crucial part of why we bought there and not in another neighborhood in Massachusetts. There are a lot of places where you can find I have a 80-year-old parent, so I totally understand what you're going through. Um, but there are a lot of places that already have in-laws setups where you could have bought elsewhere. Um, I just wanted to say that again, I hope everything works out for everybody. As an auditor, I think there's an answer. Um, as I told my children tonight, make it work. Figure it out. But as it stands right now, it's not reasonable and it's not fair and um, something else has to be done. Um, I think the way it is right now, it might be an expense thing. maybe have to spend a little bit more money to

move it elsewhere. Um, and I do agree I'm not happy with the detached decision either because that would affect my husband and I even more. Um, I want to make sure everyone should be able to get what they want. Um, but you may have to spend more money. So, uh that's my thoughts and again very important topic for the entire neighborhood because we all want to maintain um the peacefulness and the serenity and the space that we currently have between each and every home in the neighborhood. So, thank you. Congratulations on your new positions and thank you uh Gus for all your help. Thank you. Hello everyone.

Hi name and address please.

It's uh Poppy Alexandrew from 15 September Drive. I'm right next to Mastana here. So um thank you for taking into consideration the letter we are submitting regarding the variance application for 23 September drive and in support of the Pastana family. So um our decision to build the home in countryside estates was made with the understanding that the development would maintain a tranquil character with ample spacings uh between the residencies. We specifically relied upon the 40oot setback requirement as a basis for our investment in this neighborhood. Um so the thoughtful layout of countryside estates is a key feature of our development and this variance threatens to undermine it. Um if granted the proposal would uh infringe upon the pastas home through the reduced privacy, loss of nature light, natural light, uh negative views and altered landscaping. Uh the ADU's proposed location creates a crowded appearance which will be very apparent from um our lot as well and it will diminish the neighborhood's overall aesthetic. Um and we feel like granting this variance sets a precedent that uh threatens a long-term aesthetic harmony in countryside states and it signals a need for caution to all present and future property owners in Franklin. Um, again, I want to thank you very much for considering our concerns tonight.

Thank you.

I think I'm the last one. All right. I'm checking Zoom, too. I don't see anyone on Zoom.

All right. Um, I'm Steven Moore House and I live in October Drive, which is part of Odin Hill Estates. Um, this my property abuts several of the countryside estate homes. I I'm here to provide some history. Um, today we built our home 23 years ago and we're the fourth home in Autumn Hill Estates before Countryside was even on the map. When the Autumn Hill development was approved, there was an agreement by the prior board and the developers of that area that the lots would be developed and the homes designed and placed on the lots thoughtfully that would preserve one privacy, two maintain a tree buffer between the lots and preserve trees. We are off Prospect Street which is a Franklin's first scenic way. And the third thing it would maintain a consistent look and feel throughout the entire community in that area. These are some of the reasons why we built our home here and made a major investment into into our property. But more importantly, knowing that the setback standards would be upheld by Franklin. This was communicated to us by our builder. Franklin holds a very strong appeal to upholding the standards when we when we built our home. So that gave us comfort. Allowing this change opens a precedent to all. And let me re rephrase that. It's a precedent you set and that this will not be in the interest of our community. It upsets a balance in our home area. Let me rephrase that. It upsets the balance. I think we heard people drove around the neighborhood and this seems like it's going to be a little awkward. It upsets

the balance. I'm sorry. It I have to say it. It does. It upsets the balance and the look and feel of our neighborhood, the privacy that we so desired and invested in, and potentially the value of our homes. Thanks for hearing our perspective and uh good luck on the consideration and discussions.

All right. If we go to the next meeting, we have one in two weeks. Uh February 19th. February 19th. Okay. Is that something you think you could come back for and maybe even bring the architect? Yeah, absolutely. Specified time on that date. Yep. Do we have anything on the agenda yet? 7:30 p.m. Okay. It is school vacation week. So, just want to make sure people are around. Good call. I'm around. I just meant for the applicant. Anyone who has Oh, our kids are in in daycare.

Well, humans. Yeah. Hi. I won't be around. You won't be around. I can do it on Zoom. Yeah, you can. It's legally permissible. Okay. I will be coming back that day. Let's Let's hold that date. All right. I make a motion to uh continue 23 September drive till uh February 19th meeting 7:30 at 7:30 p.m. Sorry, we never announced the times I'm planning for. I take it up any later than that, but you have to have at least a set time that no.

Sure. Okay. Uh you seconded. All right. All in favor? I I All right. None opposed. All right. Thank you very much and we'll see you on the 19th. Nobody on Zoom. So if you do it on Zoom, even one member on Zoom, all all everybody roll call votes. Roll call votes. And the people on Zoom need to identify themselves.

Yeah. You're all set.

Thank you.

Next on the agenda is general business 237 Pleasant Street. request for extension of comprehensive permit letter. If I may, um I have to disclose that my company is working on this project. Um I'm not personally involved with it. I'm not a principal in the firm, but I want to disclose that in case anybody has any objection. No, no objection on my end. Madame Chair. Yes.

If I could just add that this is a 60 unit fully affordable project on Pleasant Street that was approved several years ago and they're asking asking for a continuation. Can you give us an overview what the process is for an extension of a comprehensive permit like this? Um could you be a little more specific in terms of what information you're looking what what the question goes to? It's not unusual. Y

uh so uh as a matter of fact it's fairly common if uh if there are other permitting required or in this case it's a financing issue. Um, Franklin, what was Jules's project? It was Franklin Ridge. Franklin Ridge took 10 years from the time they were approved. So, they had multiple extensions. So, that that's a that's the biggest driver is getting the financial uh blocks in place. So, and so the process to receive an extension on the permit, do we have a date that they're looking to extend to? Do we um

do they send hear the ask and then we approve it? Yes. Okay. So, they send a letter with a date and Yes. So, you So, you respond to their letter and then make sure it gets filed with the town clerk if you were were to allow it. Okay. Right. But um to uh the chair's point, the letter states they're current uh is yeah the current

is going to expire, but it doesn't say when an extension would be granted until. Is that what you were asking? Yeah, I didn't see it. Yeah, they don't they don't ask.

So, the comprehensive permit was recorded April 21st, 2023. Yeah. And I believe it's good for Mr. Sell. Off the top, I don't I'd be talking off the top of my head. I I think it's three years, but I'm not sure. It says April 21st, 2026. But I guess our question is if we grant the extension to the comprehensive permit, does that give them another three years? Is it a year? Like what is the extension? They still have to come back on a um yearly basis I believe. Okay. Year to to year to year. Yes. Got it. So they will have that extension start though in April or does it start from today?

Well, no. I would I would say you would extend it from whenever it expires. Mhm. Okay. Yeah. And it's not uncommon. Like attorney Sell alluded to, Franklin Rididge had several and it was

this one in particular, this is community, they were working with community builders, which is a nonprofit. So uh it's a pure, as uh the building commissioner indicated, it's all affordable. It's it's the purest form of uh affordable housing. I um I do recall reading an article that the state put out a blanket extension. There were extensions during co Yeah. Uh automatic extensions.

So that that gets back to when the permit was allowed and then you have to go through that and make that determination. Um yeah, there were dates specific to that. I read the same thing. Yeah, but that doesn't apply to that this that's why it's coming to the ZBA. They might have just who's the request from I mean it the church the development attorney who I would think it was from community builders.

It's from community builders and I do believe we have someone from community builders on the Zoom. Hello. Sorry, I wasn't sure who who could see me or not. And then we also have uh uh Kathy, Reverend from the the church. Um yes. Um so I when I first reached out, I was told I think by Casey that the ZBA usually grants one-year extensions. Um so that's what this would be for. It's um I would say it's possible that we would need another extension. Um if we were granted this extension through April 21st, 2027, it's possible that we would need an additional extension. Um just depending on funding available from the state. So, so through the chair,

uh, have you, uh, investigated whether you were entitled to, uh, have that time period told by the legislation under that was in effect during CO so that it was automatically extended anyway? Do you know for a fact that you need this right now? This is a question to you, Robert. Through the chair. Okay. Through the chair, if I could interrupt. Oh, according to what I'm reading, if it was approved between the dates of January 20, January 1st, 2023 and January 1st, 2025, it's an automatic 2-year extension. That's what I thought. According to what I'm reading, and it's

what are you? It's Massachusetts law. All right. Because I because I don't I don't have it at my fingertips, which is why it's always to be on the good to be on the safe side. Yep. And we I think we still move forward with extending it unless attorney Sell says no. There's no downside to giving them the extension, but they may have it anyway. Yeah. And as I said, it's very common for multiple extensions, particularly on these nonprofit projects.

Okay. Just just so I know, Attorney Serell, if we were to and Gus, if we were to not extend and it expired, then the whole permitting process starts again.

Yes. And this was uh as is this was uh somewhat it was not a uh no opposition project. So I I plus the expense and all I don't think we would want to do that.

Right. And again, this was particular. I have to give kudos to the uh I I believe the uh the clergy from the churches here, but they they've just done a very generous thing here on a number of levels. And in my personal opinion, speaking editorial, I think this would just be a great great project for the community if it gets off the ground. or I should say when it gets off the ground.

Well, seeing as we we think there already might be an automatic two-year extension um and that the request before us is to grant a one-year extension from the ZBA through April 21st. Yeah. The current one goes to April 21st, 2026. One year extension will put it to April 21st, 2027. Okay. I I would add without prejudice to any rights which they were granted by the legislature during CO. Yeah.

Do I hear a motion to grant this extension? Yeah. I make a motion to uh grant the extension of a comprehensive permit for 237 Pleasant Street. I second that. All in favor? All in favor? I I I. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Madam Chair.

Yes. I think I would be remiss if I didn't mention that um I'd like to recognize the two members that are no longer um serving on the board, Bruce Hunchard and Archie Arcito. Um they gave a lot of their lives for the ZBA and did a fantastic job at it. They helped a lot of homeowners in Franklin with um relief over the years and the knowledge was um something that um I'm sure will carry through with the new board members. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Gus. That is um no they I think that is partly why um I learned a lot from them in one year and um they did help a lot of people. That's what the point of the board is, right? Is to help people through these gray areas. All right. Um we'll be entering into executive session. You need a motion and a vote and the vote needs to be by roll call and need to announce the purpose of the executive session as listed on the agenda. All right. Not to resume an open session and state that you're adjourning from executive session.

Okay. Do we have to adjourn from the open meeting first? Yes. You're you're you're in an open meeting already. Yeah. So somebody it's probably the chair would make a declaration announces that you need to go into executive session for litigation. Yeah. Because an open meeting is prejuditial to the town's bargaining position or negotiating position. Okay. Uh and you so declare and you as the chair so declare. All right. That's in the statute. Then the uh clerk would make a motion that mirrors what you just said. Okay. And then

is there a script? I I brought one with me. If you don't have uh this is what you gave me. Sorry. The agenda or the this is from attorney sell. They have that. I have it. All right. Sorry. Okay. This one.

So then I'll read the case and then the motion is to take.

All right. The Franklin ZBA needs to meet in executive closed session for the following purpose. to discuss strategy with respect to litigation, specifically Vert.Ex Towers LLC pending federal and state court cases appealing ZBA's denial of wireless tower approval. I declare that an open meeting may have detrimental effect on the litigating position of the public body. The open session will not reconvene at the conclusion of the executive session.

I move that the Franklin ZBA go into executive session for the following purpose. to discuss strategy with respect to litigation as an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on litigating position of the public body and the chair has so declared and now I resume an open session and that and that the open session not reconvene at the conclusion of the executive session second motion roll call clerk roll call vote the clerks That's your job as clerk. What do I do? Call each call the names of the three of the all three members.

Okay. Um Jennifer Williams. Yes. Janelle White. Yes. And Isabella Carter. Rachel. All right. All right. Good night. The associates of Freedom.