Board of Supervisors - Regular Meeting

Mic Heck.

We look forward to a good healthy discussion today regarding our broadband projects. Um so I will begin with the approval um of the minutes from the March 17th meeting. Do any authority members, Mr. Meredith, do you have any requests for changes, sir? Yeah, there's one. I don't know on the uh third page from the back uh when we closed last meeting, it said absent Thompson. I'm sure that should be corrected there. Oh, yeah. I see it. We had both of you there, Meredith and Thompson.

So, I'm not sure. I know earlier as on a vote I think it was I don't know Mr. Jameson or Mr. They was both here. I don't know if that's supposed to be Mr. Jameson, but So, um I guess we need to confirm who was absent um and that the vote is reflective of the record. Would that be Yeah. Is that would that be your request? Yeah, cuz I was looking at u when we approved the minutes last time they had Tatum and Jameson is absent. So, I just wanted to get clarification. So, we'll have his correct. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Any other requests for changes, additions, deletions? Welcome, Mr. Tatum. Glad you made it.

Okay. So, having said that, um I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes with the requested change u from Mr. Meredith regarding um the resolution vote um at the end of the minutes uh with specific regard to the uh supervisor noted as Thompson absent. I'll entertain a motion to that effect for approval. Like a motion. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. And all those in favor, please say I. I. I. All those opposed, like sign. Okay. Very good. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. Mr. Sandy, project updates, please.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Um, today we we have uh Rodney Gray from Zaitel here to to give uh project updates on the ZITEL project. um as we talked about previously, we we've really completed the Chintel project, the Chentel work um you know has has been completed and signed off on by the state. So what we proposed to do after that point was alternate every other month have a update from Zaitel and then uh on the alternate uh month or the opposite month have an update from uh River Street on um the progress on the River Street project. So this month we'll have Zaitel. Next month uh we do anticipate having River Street back and I hope we'll have um Mr. Mitchell and I attended the West Pedmont meeting where we got some uh new information about that project and kind of uh what's happening there and a lot of it revolves around the bead funding being awarded. And so, u my hope is at the May meeting we'll have more information on that those contracts have been awarded and that they're um able to move forward um on on the project. Um Steve, they kind of put it on a little bit of a pause. I think is safe to say based on some of the bead funding that's coming.

I guess maybe if you or I one were to give a good summary of kind of what I thought of that. Um, I think it's a small company trying to do a really big thing and they're trying to get their ducks in a row for financing and they're probably with Tim was there as well. They're probably a little overleveraged. Maybe that'd be the word and I think they even said that that they've kind of picked up more because it made sense to pick it up for the bead for the bead funding, right? And it expanded the project hugely. Well, their creditors aren't wanting to extend their credit until they have that funding in hand.

So, but they're wanting to wrap those two projects together. So, that money is tied together. So, they're not getting this part until the bead project is done. Hopefully, once that approval goes forward, they'll get their financing and can move forward. Is that a good summary? I think so. A good summary, Tim. I I think the other part is they've they've been working through the state on this process as well. So the state is aware of kind of where things stand and what kind of um completion the state is looking for as they go through this process. So I feel pretty good about it.

I think we'll we'll get a we should have a good update for you guys at that point. I think the bead funding will be awarded by then. Rodney might be able to speak to that because he's he's working through some of the same issues with the bead funding. So, um, but anyway, we expect them to be here in May and so to give you an update there. But we'll devote this time to to Rodney to to give us an update on what we call the VOD 2024, which is a grant that was awarded in 2024 to um through the VI program to to ZITEL. So, Rodney, welcome. Good afternoon, Rodney. Thank you for being with us.

Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you for having members of the board. Um, well, we are trucking along in Franklin County. So, um, I think we're making good progress on our 2024 body project. Um, I am waiting for a text from my construction coordinator that I have not gotten. With that, I wanted to give you an idea of where we stood for this month so far. But, um, I asked him this morning for those numbers and he just kind of gave me that look of, "Are you crazy?" Like, really?

Yeah. Really? So, um, I think we're making good progress. We've had some good weather. You know, for the farmers and everybody that want the rain, it's not good for us. It's good because we're we can the VOTE doesn't shut us down on the roadways. Um, you look at the maps that we gave you guys. Blue represents all of the fiber that is in the ground that is active that has most of it has customers and subscribers on. Um, this is our current body footprint. The yellow is what's under construction, permitted and designed, ready to go. Um the um right now we have pops one, two, and three are completely done. Um well, POP three is 95% done. It's the Burke chimney pop. We're still waiting to um we're going to colllocate with your emergency management in the um trailer there behind the landfill at in Burke Chimney.

Excuse me. and we're waiting to get in there. We We want to cause as little disruption as possible digging into that facility. There's so many communications. The last thing we want to do is be the the company that took down the 911 backbone system in Franklin County because we dug those stuff. Please don't do that, Rodney. We're not Please don't do that. Make sure that doesn't happen. Yeah.

Um we've got approximately 88 miles of the whole project completed in the ground. um 735 passings of the eligible passings in Franklin County. That number is significantly more than that, but the ones that the grant subsidy requires us to pass of of that number, 735. We currently have 68 subscribers active on our network in Franklin County. That number is going to grow significantly. I don't know if anybody in here lives in our footprint. Um but you should have gotten your first mailer um advertising service availability. We sent out 14,000 mailers that were delivered Friday through um this week in the mail that if you were on our footprint in active service in pops one and two and three in Franklin County, you got that mailer and our phones and contacts since Friday have been going crazy um getting people activated. Um POP five is slated to begin in May about May approximately May 15th. We still have all aspirations. This entire 210 milei bill will be done in October, which is going to be ahead of schedule. Um, we're not running into any real problems. Um, any problems we're running into are of our own making. We're not having any VOTE problems. We're not having any easement problems. Um, smaller issues are popping up here and there, but I think we're handling them as we move forward. Um, we don't see any issues with uh with moving forward with with the project. So, um, that's really all I've got. I mean, we're moving we're moving forward. We we're not doing any any poll work we've done with AAP is already completed, so we're not having any waiting on permit polls. VOTE is great at getting us our permits. Um, the the low the only hold up we've got is from our own making, which is our b own bond. you have to put up a bond for the amount of work you're doing and I think we have

a a million dollar bond and we're not closing permits fast enough to open new permits. So, we're exhausting that bond. So, we need to increase the bond or close out earlier permits faster. So, and that's problems that are own of our own making. Um to answer your questions about bead, as far as we know, the NEPA, which is the environmental protection agency stuff that's being done by the um um economic development, what are those called again? The I thought DHCD. No, you they're getting like the central Virginia Pedmont Economic Development District. The

Okay. the the planning districts. The planning districts are doing the planning districts are doing the environmental they're doing the environmental reviews for us. And it's weird because the planning district for the Franklin County NEPA for us it's being done by like the Rapahhanic district. Oh, they didn't assign it to the exact district that the community is in to do the which seems strange to me like the Bedford County NEPA is being done by Bristol's planning district. It's very strange. Do we need to follow up on that? I mean, because we're part of two planning districts. Well, I'm assuming there's a method to that madness. That's a DHCD and Chandler. Yeah. Method of their madness on why they picked that. I think they

maybe they didn't want one planning district to get overloaded with with with environmental reviews, so they spread them out equally, but so ours were spread out just all over the state. Like we're dealing with planning districts we've never dealt with, but it's a pretty simple process for us. the NEPA reviews and for Franklin County there there's not a lot because when you build inside the VOTE existing utility easements and you're not doing any new construction or any new easement gathering then the the environmental review is pretty straightforward. It'll it'll be a um and are they they being done by carrier or by county by ISP or by county? I think they're being done by ISP.

That's kind of what I was thinking. So, I mean, I think like we may be like the Rapahhanic district may be doing our environmental review for Franklin County, but if River Street got some bead stuff here, their environmental review may be doing being done by another planning district. I don't know how they're they don't really tell us how they divided it up. They just said, "Here's your project manager. Here's who your review your environmental review is being done by, which is nice. In Virginia, we're not doing the environ the ISP is not doing the environmental review for. So, for those of us that are smaller companies like us in River Street that don't really have, you know, engineering staffs and environmental review boards and everything that can do all that, we're getting help from, you know, other entities that know how to do that. Whereas in other states, we're 100% responsible for everything. So, just a silly question maybe. Do we have assurance that these environmental um uh evaluations, albeit being done outside of our footprint, are they all going to be consistent, the evaluations themselves, are they going to be evaluative um consistently and by the same criteria?

I'm assuming that's why they put it with the planning district commission's we're out of that, too. I mean, we don't play any part in that. Right. Right. There's not really any human judgment involved in it. There's a set of the NTI sets standards and the the Environmental Protection Agency has standards and they have a GIS system that you plug your route maps into and then it gives you a formula back and it's just having personnel compile that data and put it together and and submit it. Okay. So, I don't think there's a lot of human, you know, review that's involved in it. It's just a lot of plugging numbers into some federal system and getting this information back. I gota

and putting it in the format that they want at the federal level which and then another format for the state level and giving it all the information that they want. Um really we expect most of our NEPA stuff to be you know we're going to be in complete compliance and and and it's the word I'm looking for. We won't be under any type of environmental regulations. We're not crossing any tribal lands. We're not in any historical districts. We're not building outside of a utility easement. We're not gonna in any wetlands or anything like that in Franklin or Bedford County of what we're building. So, I don't think we're going to be contingent to any environmental reviews at all. So, so, um, do any of the authority members have any questions or comments for Rodney?

Oh, Steve, I'm sorry.

I I was just wondering if you could um explain two things. Maybe explain why you started here in this area and not the other side of the county. um because I know that that's come up in the past with some of the other projects. And then do do you mind just explaining what a POP is for everybody? So a POP is a point of presence. It's um what's the best example? I mean you see these little communications building sitting on the side of the road or you know the pedestals that you have in your neighborhoods. Think of them as a larger cabinets that are maybe the size of this uh this island sitting here that um where the signal comes in and then it's you know amplified and sent back out is basically what a POP is. You put equipment in it. We use um we partner and colllocate with as many um community entities. We normally use volunteer rescue squad and fire department. For example, our POP down um on the south POP, what we call POP 2 is Scrugs Volunteer Fire Department. And in exchange for giving us space, we then turn and give them free services, free fire, so they have free phone services and free internet from us um in exchange for the use of the space. Um we're partnering with um your emergency management group and so them for them letting us put a pop inside the trailer that's behind the landfill and burnt chimney. We're going to give them free use of dark fiber to get a connection between um the burnt chimney tower and the scrugs tower down on blue water. So they don't have to use a microwave wireless signal. They'll have fiber connectivity between the two. And we're hoping to partner with them in a much broader sense and get fiber and and give a full dark fiber ring. So the right now I think the 911 radio towers have a primary connection which is microwave wireless technology. They want to make that the backup and get Franklin County all their 911 towers connected on our fiber, which

yeah,

we like to do when we come into a community. We like to be partners with the community, which is just a rinse and repeat of everything we did in Bedford County. We're doing the same thing here. Um the reason we started there is back hauls. Mid-Atlantic Broadband had fiber coming up through there and then we can back haul our own fiber coming out of Bedford County across the lake to get into West Lake. has nothing to do with where we're building or building around the lake because it's more dense or we think we'll get more subscribers. We don't take that into account. It's all about the fiber back hole that we can get in there to get the fiber lit up and then you build from the light out. As you can see on the map, you see out here in the in the western part of the county, there's blue roads that we've already built and most of those are probably private road neighborhoods where we don't have to get VOTE permitting. So if VOTE shuts us down for some reason or we or have a problem with permitting, we can get crews out here to build into these private roads and private neighborhoods. Well, those the fibers in the ground, but we can't light it up. So that's what we mean when we say we build from the light out. So from the light source of where we can service people, we have to build from there out. So starting in Westlake where we have our CO and building from there out is the most reasonable way to do it. So if we we could go out and build in the Callaway area and out on the west side of the county, but there's no way to light it up. There's no middle mile providers out there that can give us a back haul. There's no services out there. We've we are bringing the services there and so we've got to start from where the light is at our central office and build out from there.

Do you have anything else? Any uh comments, questions from authority members?

Rodney? Um, I still am getting complaints here and there, one as recent, um, as last week when I was out on a on a, uh, site visit with VOTE about just some of the the contractors, the subcontractors that are out there. And um I I'm not going to go into the details, but I know that you and I talked about um the Waverly subdivision and you know how it you know there were just some complaints about things not putting being put back the way they were found. So do you have can you give me some assurances and the authority that you guys are are really making sure that things are being put back accordingly? you you have um so we're inspected by VOTE and we cannot close those permits. Remember I was talking about the the bond the shy bonds we have to get. We can't close those permits and get that money released to open new permits until VOTE passes our inspection.

Okay. And Lisa's guys do not play around with that. They Yeah. They they they they make sure we put our ducks in a row. We have our So we have two levels of quality control. We have our own construction crews or the subcontractor, our in-house construction crews. They have their own construction coordinators that do a certain level of quality control. But then those those invoices that are sent before they can get paid, we have our own in-house quality control department that goes out and and and and checks that to make sure that we're um we're leaving the area the same way that it was prior or at least to the VOTE standard. Now, leaving a neighborhood to the VOTE standard may still not be up to what the citizens want to see. That's true.

I I I can't I can't justify a neighborhood, and we've had these questions. We like Bermuda grass in our neighborhood. We want Bermuda grass down on the side of the road. I'm not doing that. The VI standard is that I put a tall fescue grass, which is a contractor misk. You know, we don't want seed. We don't want straw put down. We want straw matting put down. I'm not going to spend the money for straw matting because this is a VOTE. At a private neighborhood, I'll work with an HOA and we'll come up to those determinations of how we're going to do things, which we have and we do. But on a state-maintained road, I do the VOTE standard, which has, you know, on on what I do that still may not be up to a neighborhood standards of what they want or what they as a HOA

goes out and puts on the side of the road and they may redo the side of the road. So, I'm I'm doing what we have as what we do as a VOTE stand. Well, and just so you know, I haven't had any inquiries given to me about the grass issue or the sod. Um I've that's not been anything that I've heard. So, that's a good thing, but I understand your rationale and and I think it's appropriate for whatever that's for. Now, we we we try to work with neighborhoods, but you and I have had this discussion before when you have neighborhoods that are from the 80s and the '9s.

Oh, yeah. with PI when they had private roads and only had one house built on them or two homes and then that developer had an opportunity to VOTE to come adopt the roads and because they got that third house and now this whole neighborhood is full of statemaintained VOTE roads but the developer never disclosed information about sewer lines that were on off-site sewers that were underneath the roads that are now considered illegal utilities and in a public utility easement. We can't anticipate stuff like that if you don't know it's there. Right. If you have an HOA Yeah. that comes out or a homeowner that comes out and they put their own dog fence and their own irrigation system through flower beds right up on the side of the road,

but I have a clear misutility dig ticket and my construction crews come through and they tear that stuff up. It's not supposed to be there. Um, and we try to explain that to people. We try to explain to HOAs, you're you're not supposed to do this. And if you do do this, you need to register yourself with the miss utility service to say, I have stuff in this. You know, and I've explained this to him before, you can put stuff in the VOTE easement, just don't expect it to be taken care of when VOTE or another utility company comes through unless you have the ability to market. We will always call miss utility dig tickets in, but that's up to the owner of the of the private utility that's out on the side of the road to make sure they have notifications coming to them from miss utility so they can go market.

And there's a lot of misnomers for private roads. Like in my subdivision, it's a private road. M it's you know so whether when that subdivision was being built and especially the irrigation systems that have subsequently gone in over the last 5 years or so um who's putting them in is it their is that is that contractor putting them in responsible to let Miss utility know or is it the property owner? It's property owner

always the property owner property owner it's their own responsibility and you get this a lot. Well I bought this house 5 years ago I live in New Jersey it's a rental house. How am I supposed to know? I'm sorry. You're the property owner. It's your job to know your own property and know what you've got and know that you should have, you know, that that if you've got stuff in a public utilities or if you own a property, I mean, I the surprising the number of people that live here that don't live here that own property here and they have a house on the water and a drain field across the road and their septic lines go underneath the the road and they have no clue that that happens. They don't even know and they didn't even know they had it. They weren't informed that they had it, but they also didn't take the time to look at the tax maps and look at the plat maps and know that that's what they have.

The typical purchaser is not going to go to that. I mean, that's just my personal opinion. This is not here not here in in Franklin County. This is in Bedford County. I had a lady, she lived up in Connecticut or something and she said, "You hit my sewer lines." And I said, "Well, you need," she said, "Well, I called Bedford Water Authority and they said, "I'm not on sewer. What What do I have?" happened. I'm like, I guess you have a septic tank. She literally asked me what a septic tank was. She had no clue. Wow. She'd been on city water and city sewer her entire life and had no clue that she even had a well and a septic tank. And I mean, I have empathy for them. Sure, I really do. But it's still the homeowner's responsibility to know what you have. And it's very helpful.

Even on a private road, private roads have deeded utility easements to the people that live behind you that are landlocked that you run utilities. If you run stuff up into that deed utility easement, it's just like going into a public utility easement. You have now encroached upon a deed utility easement for another homeowner in the area. Okay.

With private roads, we we work a little more in depth with the property owners because you're not on a state road. We we talk to them. We we we talk to HOAs. We try to work with them as much as we can. But when it's a state road and we get a clear misutility dig ticket on the side of a state road and we're permitted for be that to be there, we're not going to contact an HOA or go knock on every door or go knock on every door and when we realize it's a rental, have to go to the tax maps and figure out who actually owns it and send them a letter and say we're doing work in a public utility easement off the side of a VOTE road. All those public utility easements in the 811 system were created so that utilities don't have to do that. M that's why that's all there. So

that's very informative. Thank you for for outlining that and uh I I know that that's a burden on you and and your and your subs. So um but thank you very much for being with us. Um and we appreciate the updates. U we appreciate all the work you're doing and we're going to pray the beef funding um comes down like it's supposed to. We're we're hoping just so you know we we've had conversations with Chandler DHCD. They're still fingers crossed and knock on wood that they're going to have the contracts in our hands by the end of this month. Oh, really?

So, they think we'll have signed contracts. If we can get um Senator Stanley, who's our attorney to review them quick enough and get them back in our hands, we can get them signed by the middle of May. So, then moving forward, the next update I'll have for you guys, we'll have a bead map up there and you'll see progress we're making simultaneously on bead and um and body progress. That's perfect, Rodney. Okay. Well, thank you for again for being with us and we appreciate your report. Thank you very much. You guys have a great afternoon. Thank you. Take care. All right, Mr. Sandy, do you have anything further for the authority?

The only just some additional clarification. I just texted Chandler, he mentioned Chandler, um about the environmental review. So, he said there's 55 projects and so the the environmental review is being done by project. So, there's 55 different bead projects across the state. Um and there are nine PDC's that are participating and each one of them has about six projects. So okay, that's why he said yeah some of them are actually working doing projects you know halfway across the state but that's okay

that's kind of why so and they're working directly for DHC um on those projects to get them and it a lot of that is about the consistency of the applications and the work rather than having the individual ISPs Yeah. kind of doing it on their own. So I got it. with that real quick that that we have all of our all of our NEPA questionnaires that we have for the uh our planning districts for the stuff we filled all those out. All that stuff's been back for over a week. So that's why I'm I've got to assume other ISPs are doing Sure. the same timeline we are. So all that's back in their hands and as far as I know I think that's already with um back to the NTIA for review from most of the planning districts. So

thank you Ron. you you make this kind of sound too simple for us, but we think we're glad we have you guys to help us walk through this. That's my job. I know. Thank you. Take care, guys. Thank you. Anything else, Mr. Sandy? And he just confirmed, too, they're hoping to have those bead contracts in early May. I'm very pleased to hear that. You know, but he did say, you know, no construction till those environmental reviews are done. So, we got to get those done and then they can release these release those projects for construction. Okay. I mean, you'll keep us updated on soon as we these projects in our footprint. Yeah. Okay. Very good. I dream of the days that a River Street update will go like that. I think a dream is the right word.

We're going to be hopeful, right? Optimistic. I'm there. Yes, indeed. Okay. Um, so are there any comments at all by authority members on any topic you wish to discuss this afternoon? Anything? One thing we learned from River Street, um, they have until December the 31st at midnight of 2027 to get it all completed. So, they've got another year and a half left before Wow. So, that's, you know, we we'd all like to see them done sooner than later, but u they've got still quite some time left on their contract to get it all done.

Did that include the big beans, Tim? I think that's that that is that's that's when they have to have everything done, I think. Is it? No, I think because I think the bead is like a three-year contract. I think the beat but all the the previous all the others. Okay. Yes. But that's why they want to do them together because they would pick up a lot of those bead ones as they're doing the other work. Um and so that's why they like you said it was they almost had to pick them up because they're like literally going right by a house that's funded through deed. So Okay. if they can get um you know get the money before they build it then you know and they they kind of made out to us that they have subcontractors out there that have done a pile of work already and they owe them a lot of money. Yeah.

And when you talk about leverage Yes. They but over apparently they have an understanding with them. Well, good. But I think they have a lot of I think they they really got their fingers crossed on this be deal coming through pretty quick. That's not the way I would do business, but that's just me. Well, we don't have a choice now. There's a lot of risk. It's too late. There's no there's no backing. I understand. I understand. I just installed Starlink this past week. Did you really? What's your experience been this far? So far so good. Okay.

I disconnected my ground line through uh Bright Speed. I called them to tell them to disregard and they asked me, "Well, can we ask why?" I said, "You certainly can. Your service sucks." I said, "I will say this. the last technician that you sent out to my house did an outstanding job, but it took me three and a half months to get him. Oh, yeah. I said that's unacceptable. And I said, I told your vice president last year that he has accomplished something I didn't think was possible. And that was he made uh Central Link look good. That that is that is kind of remarkable and and and I understand they bought a pig and a poke. They bought a outdated system,

but with that you've you know when you pick it up you know you got issues this customer service three months to get a repair that's not going to cut it. No. But so far we're happy with our Starlink. Uh I looked up on a couple different maps and it looks like Chintel has come to end of my road. Ruger Street's come to the end of my road. I don't think either one of them is making it to me really way way it looks. Uh, I got missed, but so me, my sister, and my brother, all of us up, we're all hooked into Starlink, so we're good. Oh, wow. Well, I'm glad you've got service that you're pleased with. Yeah. When you're paying for this stuff, it's important you get what you're paying for.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. When you pay that much, you want service. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Well, if there are no other comments, uh, questions, or concerns, um, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn our meeting. So, move. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. And all those in favor, please say I. I. I. Like sign. Okay. We are adjourned for our board meeting to begin at 300 p.m. this afternoon.

Good afternoon everyone. It's it's a delight to see everybody coming out this afternoon um to uh participate in your county's business. We really do appreciate it. Um I'm calling the meeting to order today, Tuesday, April 21st at 300 p.m. Um the first thing that we will have is an invocation offered by Mr. Carter and the pledge offered by Mr. Quinn. So, if you would please stand.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Great to see everybody here today. I see a lot of old friends in the crowd I haven't seen in a long time. Let us pray. Lord, as the earth blooms with new life, renew our hearts with joy. Let the warm sun and the fresh green of spring lift our spirits. Guide us, Lord, to show faith, kindness, and love to one another. And from Leviticus, you shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor. God bless America, and God bless Franklin County. Amen. Amen. Amen.

To the flag of the United States of America and to the stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty, justice for all. Okay. All right. Thank you all very very much. Um the first order of business um would be the approval of our agenda. And I believe that we have a request to amend the agenda as was presented. Mr. Mitchell, make a motion to move to Excuse me. I make a motion to amend the agenda to move the county administrative report and the county attorney report before the public comment period. Okay. Is there a second?

Second. Thank you, Mr. Tatum. Is um all those in fa do you need a voice on that or Voice is fine. Okay. All those in favor, please say I. I.

I. Okay. And all those opposed like sign. Okay. So, we'll consider the agenda amended um to excuse me to put the county administrator and county attorney's reports prior to public comment. Okay. We will move on um to a very um great thing that we are able to do and blessed to be able to do is to recognize our citizens and our employees and our businesses. Um in this case today um this is a very special day where we can recognize Arrington Management Group and Turner Dock Building. Um both are celebrating tremendous milestones. Uh 60 years for Arrington and 50 years for Turner Doc. Um these two companies um have demonstrated clear uh dedication and commitment to Franklin County. They've played a significant role in Franklin County's economy for decades. Um, and especially around Turner Dock. The craftsmanship and the reliability of the work that they do is outstanding and it's proven itself over many, as I said, over many decades. Uh, both of these business have established longevity. Um, and they are heavy on their commitment to their employees and to their customers that they serve. Uh we are very blessed to have these two businesses in Franklin County and we want to ensure that that they know how much we thank them and appreciate them um in this day and time where 50 and 60 years of tenure uh can almost be unheard of. Um so we want to make sure that we are recognizing this um as you know these are locally family-owned businesses. So, I want to congratulate each one of these and if we could, I'd like to invite first of all Arrington uh Enterprises down to the front and then

we'll call Turner to do a resolution on your behalf.

Hello. You all want to come up to your center stage? Hello. How are you? Hi. How are you? Hi Jamie. Aaron. Hi Erin.

Well, I'm just in such good company up here. Um so if you all just want to stand up, we'll get a picture after this. Um Mr. Carter would like to join me in the resolution to acknowledge you Mr. Carter's district and um he's gonna Thank you. So what we have is a resolution of appreciation. Whereas Arrington Management Group, a locally rooted company based in Franklin County, Virginia, is celebrating 60 years of dedicated service growth and community impact. And whereas established in 1965, Arrington Management Group has played a significant role in shaping the local economy and daily life of Franklin County residents, building on a local dining landscape that included early estab establishments such as Hughes Snack Bar and contributing to the community through ventures including the Dairy Queen on Route 40 East and Rocky Mount, followed by the Dairy Queen on Route 40 West and later bringing Bojangles to the area. Whereas what began as a small locally focused business has grown into a thriving enterprise employing more than 250 individuals, many of whom are Franklin County residents, contributing to the strength and stability of the local workforce. And whereas Arrington Management Group has fostered a strong familyoriented culture with multiple generations of Franklin County families having worked within the company reflecting its commitment to its employees and long-standing presence in the community. And whereas beyond its business success, Arrington Management Group has demonstrated an ongoing commitment to giving back, supporting the local arts, athletic programs, and community members in need, making a meaningful and lasting impact across Franklin County. Now therefore, be it resolved that the Franklin County, Virginia Board of Supervisors extends its sincere congratulations and

appreciation to Arrington Management Group for 60 years of outstanding service, economic contribution, and community leadership. So, let's give these folks A since I'm the elder of the bunch now.

Uh yeah, thank y'all for recognizing Arrington Management Group was formerly Arrington Enterprises, but all one company all the same. So, but we did start, Dad started in 1965 in the grocery business. He bought Hugh Snack Bar just by stopping in one night. It's how he got into the fast food business. He stopped in one night after a basketball game and Mr. Turner, Hugh Turner was a treasurer. He was in there working and dad was picking on him a little bit and said, "What are you doing here?" And he said, "Um, can't find no help." This that story hasn't changed today, but he said, "Can't find no help." So before the end of the night or actually dad owned it and Hugh financed it the next day.

Really? Yeah. through that conversation is how we got in the fast food business. But we're very uh happy to be a part of this community. We've been blessed by this community and want to thank the community for all that they do and our in support of our business. Deborah, you said it all. Well, um, again, we're both grateful and we're very blessed. That's the real word. We're very blessed and all. We just want to say thank you. So, we'll get a a picture of here with with Kevin um so we can get you get you all famous.

Okay. Thank you all so much. THANK YOU. OR YOU OKAY IF I can ask Turner Docs to come up.

Good afternoon. Good afternoon. It is a pleasure. Thank you, Glory. Good to see you. Good to see you again. Is this the power behind the throne? This is the power. It's I've been there as long as he has been. A that's great to see you.

Hey, how you doing? It's good to see you. Okay. Um what a a prestigious time this is for our board. Um I have Mr. Quinn up here uh with to help me as your supervisor in the Union Hall district and we'd like to present a resolution of appreciation to you. Whereas Turnerdock Building, a locallyowned and family operated company business serving Franklin County and the surrounding region, is celebrating 50 years of business built on quality craftsmanship and dependable service. And whereas since its founding, Turner Doc's building has established a strong reputation through hard work, attention to detail, and long-standing relationships with customers, contributing significantly to the growth, accessibility, and enjoyment of Smith Mountain Lake. And whereas the company's continued success over five decades reflects its commitment to excellence, reliability, and the values of a family operated business that prioritizes both its customers and community. And whereas Turner's Dock Building has made a lasting impact on the region, supporting the local economy and enhancing quality of life through its contributions to Smith Mountain Lake and the broader community. And whereas as Turner's Dock Building celebrates its 50th anniversary, it stands as a testament to perseverance, community connection, and a legacy of trusted service. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Franklin County, Virginia Board of Supervisors extends its sincere congratulations and appreciation to Turner's Dock Building for 50 years of outstanding service, craftsmanship, and commitment to Smith Mountain Lake and the community. Thank you.

THANK YOU. OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO ASK FOR any speeches, speeches, speeches. There you go.

I would just like to thank you all for this. It's um you know, most every night I pray that I'm part of this wonderful community because I love Rocky Mount. I was born and raised here and I live down in Pin Hook now. But um the county has been so wonderful. We've been able to grow and we've had our differences, but it all always works out and um I'm amazed because help is so hard to get now. Everybody knows that. But um and it evidently was a long time ago also. But but uh you know I call the treasur's office and the clerk's office and the commissioner revenue and I get friendly people.

You know all y'all's departments of public safety. Everyone is always helpful and seemed want to be there to help you. And u I can't tell you how much that means. And uh and one comment Mr. Carter said he looked out there and saw some of his old friends. I didn't really know how to take that, but I think I wouldn't either.

Jason, thank everybody here at the county for this award. Um, you know, being a second generation in this business. Um, it's been fabulous. Um, it's a wonderful place u to be able to live and and raise my kids and now my grandkids. So, thank you all for everything. picture.

Thank you all so much. Congratulations.

Now there is some that is That's not wrong. Yeah, there should be a plaque there for that.

Okay, thank you all for that. What a wonderful celebration. Uh we appreciate families being with us. Uh the next that thing that we have um or special occasion I should say um is Franklin County Public Library award recognitions. Uh impactful marketing public relations effort in standard of excellence and a silver award. U Mr. Sandy did you want to do you have any opening comments? You just want to invite Rebecca up. Yeah. Yeah. We'll re uh invite Rebecca and the staff up and then we'll have some comments as we get down on the floor.

Okay, let's do it. Hello. Hello. Hello. How are you?

Yes. So, it's, as you mentioned, it's always great to have some good positive recognition and and the ability to recognize some of our staff who, you know, you guys know they do great things, but we'd like to to be able to have that uh publicly known as well. So, Rebecca's done a great job since she came on to to be our director at the library and she's she's built a great team between her team and the library board. It's a it's a very strong group and they do a number of great things at the library. I feel like we recognize you guys a lot because you you're doing a lot of good things. So, uh

there so I'll turn it over to Rebecca. She can share a little bit more about this award and this recognition and and also the efforts of her team. So, yes, thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you for having us here. It's so nice. Um I want to just continue on with the last speech that Franklin County, Rocky Mount, great place to be. Uh, I just adore everybody here and just enjoy working here. So, yes, thank you for that. Um, well, the Franklin County Public Library was recognized at the Vipple Day meeting. And if you're not familiar with what that is, it's the Virginia Public Library Director Association meeting. They meet twice a year, but in the spring uh is their awards uh ceremony and uh they give awards in various different categories when libraries excel and go above and beyond in those categories and we um got two awards this year which is great. Um the first award was the impactful marketing public relations uh effort uh in recognition of uh our Facebook and Instagram uh accounts that we have. Um new marketing strategies were implemented by Emma Fenton, our new um adult services coordinator. And she's laughing because it's just effortless for her. I tell you, I did that job until we hired Emma. And it was not effortless for me. And the the best I did was just post some posters on there and that was it. Um, these two ladies have uh done and other staff as well have done some fabulous videos um that really um draw in um even people that are not part of Franklin County um to our Facebook page. And uh through this campaign uh Emma has not only successfully marketed our wonderful programs and services, but she's created a fun platform that people love to visit and see our fun videos involving staff and um other people and

thus conveying the library as a fun, inviting space. and Hannah, our teen services coordinator, she has done a lot of the videos that uh that you will see and she's in a lot of them. Um our videos invoke a sense of community uh and is a great staff bonding activity as well. So it has all kinds of benefits. Um and I'll tell you and when I said staff and other people, this little dog that's on her pin there has gone viral on Instagram. Uh it was a staff member's new puppy came in and did a video for us. Um wherein the dog supposedly was a new staff member and chewed a library book. He didn't, but um they have 45,000 likes on Instagram. So, you know, it's more in Franklin County looking at us. And uh so now he has uh pins because he's gone viral. So yeah. Um, so, uh, I just I am so grateful for my whole staff and, uh, especially this effort. We've seen all kinds of new things happening at the library because of these efforts, new people coming in and and mentioning us. Uh, so that's wonderful. The second, I'm sorry, I'm talking too long. The second award was for standard of excellence. It was the silver award. they give out a bronze, silver uh or gold uh for your standards of excellence um uh that meet specific measured metrics for high quality service uh management and community impact. Um, I'll tell you, um, I've seen these awards before, and it's usually not typical for, uh, a library our size to go past bronze, um, because they look at things like our, uh, Zen booths, our privacy, uh, pods, our, um, bookmobile, our selfservice kiosk and lockers, and smaller libraries with a smaller budget

don't typically attain all of those things. Um but we have um so which boosted us up to a silver award. So I'm very proud of uh our staff and uh the county um support and all of that um to give us that award. So um they underscore the library's ongoing efforts um to provide engaging enriching resources for community members of all ages. Through these metrics, the library has obtained silver and I couldn't be happier.

Yeah. Sure. Absolutely. Congratulations.

Okay, ladies. Thank you so Thank you. Okay, thank you all so much for indulging us. These are good times, good positive messages. Okay, we're going to move on on our agenda um for the consent agenda. Um are there any items on the consent agenda um to my colleagues that you wish to pull for questions andor additional uh comment on?

Madam Chair, I'd like to pull uh number three and discuss that a little more if please. Okay. Anything else? Okay. So, I will entertain a motion to adopt the consent agenda with the exception of number three. So move. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Tatum. All those in favor, please. We have to Excuse me. We need to do roll call on this. Supervisor Meredith, yes. Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes. And Chair Smith,

yes. Uh, now we will go to number three, which is the request to develop and issue a request for proposals for Franklin County Fire and EMS system study. Mr. Meredith.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I was just kind of looking over this um pretty much this is a RFP for um just to kind of look at revenue recovery um long-term budget optimizing this, you know, and paying somebody $75,000. I I would think this is something we could do in house. I think uh whether our IT could help with um I think it was mentioning about uh systems uh all this but it just in just glancing at this says study to identify options to enhance service delivery operational efficiency and long-term stab sustainability. I think it's something we could do in house. I know we have talked in the past uh I know in January I suggested a fire and EMS advisory board which I guess that's went uh I haven't heard much discussion I know that was recommended in a study in 2017 16 uh

I think it was 16 correct me on that but I mean it seems like this is something that we could do inhouse instead of hiring somebody or consultant from outside uh I think even some maybe the board members might be able to help with some of this with backgrounds we have a wealth of knowledge in our staff. So, that's just my concerns on um to me that don't sound like a whole lot we couldn't, you know, handle in house. Okay, Mr. Mayor, thank you. I would open up the floor for uh discussion, questions, comments, and Mr. Sandy, I will yield to you. Um let me go ahead and yield to you first.

Sure. Sure. Yeah. Um I I'll just make a couple points I guess is we had that money had been budgeted probably three or four years ago. So that money has been budgeted for this purpose for a while. We just we never took action to kind of move forward. I think what kind of pulled it back into light a little bit was that Bedford County had recently done a stud a study that's similar uh to what we're looking at proposing here. and Chief Fowler and I had talked about just defining the scope a little bit further. And so I can kind of read just a few of the things that um we have talked about in anticipation of the study which I think goes beyond I think what maybe some of the internal capabilities would be. And then I'll just also um just state that you know I think having an independent organization come in and take a look at things through a different lens is part of what we uh would hope to get here. kind of an objective view of the system and looking at it from uh you know from an outside look in to to try to get some good uh recommendations that we can move forward as far as longterm for our public safety departments. So couple things we've talked about relative to the scope and I can just go through those uh is looking at system assessment and performance. Um and that would include looking at current staffing and facilities and apparatus. U looking at response times and coverage gaps and service demand trends. um comparing our system performance against national standards and you know comparable jurisdictions as we look at you know what is the the county's desired response time um throughout the county you know I think there this uh firm could help us um look at that and look at what's a reasonable expectation for a locality of our size and and with our budget uh a second one is staffing and service delivery models um just looking at our model currently is a combination system of career and

volunteer resources. So looking at that, figuring out how we can optimize um those resources. Um also volunteer system sustainability is another factor that we would look at is assess recruitment, retention and incentive programs for volunteers, recommend strategies to strengthen and sustain volunteer participation. Um and evaluate the operational expectation and performance standards for for our volunteer agencies. looking at the organizational structure and governance. And I think this gets back to your comment, Mr. Meredith, is there was a 10-year-old study that was done that recommended, you know, kind of a I won't call it a governing board, but but but some sort of a a board uh mechanism. And so I think, you know, part of the thinking here again is our system has changed a lot in 10 years. Maybe we need to re-evaluate what that looks like. the recommendation may come back the same but I think it could be something that maybe there's a different recommendation about what the composition of that uh group would look like. So uh evaluate the current current system oversight authority coordination uh recommend improvements um assess policies and procedures uh throughout the system. We would uh another scope would be looking at our facilities, our apparatus and our capital planning which is something we've talked a lot about. um evaluate the current station locations, apparatus, and fleet condition. Provide recommendations for station placement, uh relocations, andor new facilities that may be needed over, you know, a 20-year type period um that we're looking at and and help us develop a long-term capital improvement plan aligned with growth projections. Um we've talked a lot about that in our our CIP meetings over the last several years about making sure we have the resources there and we're planning for those. um appropriately and there's a few more so I won't read all the details but looking at communications technology and data and that would include dispatch that would include looking at our

communications system and the oper interoperability uh financial and cost efficiency analysis could be part of this uh community risk reduction and emergency preparedness is another item that we would like the consultant to to look at. So those are a little more details of of kind of what we would anticipate uh the consultant helping us out. And then what we would also propose is a selection committee that would review those proposals and help select um you know the right um the right consultant to help with that project. And so, um, kind of our recommendation would be, uh, two folks from our, uh, career staff, from our public safety staff, two folks from the volunteer association, preferably kind of one from the fire side and one from the, um, EMS side, a representative from county administration and finance, a representation from the sheriff's office, uh, for a dispatch perspective, and really, uh, one board of supervisors member, I think, uh, should be part of that committee, too, as we look and evaluate um you know which consultant we think is the best candidate to help move this project forward. So um that that's hopefully that's a little more context and and helps a little bit in kind of what the this effort would be aimed at. And again this this is something that was put in the budget years ago, several years ago that we've just never utilized it yet. And so we felt like now was a good time maybe to to move forward with that and and try to help us develop a a long range plan for the system. Um as well as when we get into strategic planning later this year, this could be really be a tool that helps us, you know, uh as we look forward. So anyway, just a little additional context. Hopefully that's helpful.

Thank you, Mr. Sandy. Mr. Meredith, quick question. Um, has it occurred that maybe when you was talking about the evaluations committee Mhm. of maybe working with this group first? I mean, I would think they would know more than anybody of short-term, long-term ideas and just see what they get back as a committee before we went outside. Um, like I said, I I think they would know more than anybody what we may be. Has that even been considered to look at it approach it that way first?

Well, I mean, I would say it's it's been considered. I think again what what we're really looking for at least from my perspective is to get that overall view of the entire system and you know that I think again having an independent party come in from outside to give that look. Part of this process would include all that stakeholder input with all of our active agencies and departments that work together. So that would all go into the mix and all be part of what the consultant would ultimately come out come back with in a report and recommendations. Um so that that's kind of the vision that I had for it was looking at it more holistically from a from a system perspective.

Okay. With with the input from all those agencies certainly. Okay. Okay. Any thoughts, questions, concerns from um my colleagues? I think sometimes an outside perspective is necessary, especially in something as something that is as large a percentage of our budget as it is. I think you have to have an outside perspective that stands on its own and isn't based on any certain Franklin County agency. It has to be an outside perspective. Good point. Good point. If it's not, nobody's going to listen to it. Good point, Mr. Tatum.

I think a clear set of eyes looking at our system is not a bad idea. I I see where Mr. Meredith is coming from um as well. But uh I think we need to make sure that whoever we get as a consultant that they have experience dealing with a combination system such as ours and not just a paid or just a volunteer. Uh we're kind of unique animal and our combination system, you know, which most of the counties around us in this part of Virginia are combination. uh you have your volunteers and you have your paid services because over the last several years, the EMS side has really fallen off on the volunteer because of the the training requirements and the time that it takes to be a volunteer uh EMS provider. It's just so time consuming that people just don't have it. And so we're, you know, all the counties around us are having to, uh, pay for the EMS services where we're still fortunate enough to have a pretty strong fire side. So, uh, just we need to make sure that whatever we do here that whoever we get that they do have a a strong background in the combination type services so they know what they're dealing with. And

and Mr. Tatum, it would be I think that's a very good point. I I think it would be obvious the key is with RFPs is to make sure we're scoping the request. Yes. Appropriately. And so your feedback on that I'm sure will be helpful to staff if if the board chooses to move forward. Any other questions, comments? Okay. So, uh at this juncture, I will put this back on the table for a motion. Uh and I will accept one at this point. Make a motion to approve the request to develop and issue a request for proposals for Franklin County Fire and EMS system study. Thank you. Is there a second? Second.

Thank you, Mr. Carter. Uh, all those in favor, we'll do a roll call vote if you please. Madame Clerk, Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Meredith, no. Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. and Chair Smith. Yes. Okay. So, we've got that taken care of um and approved. Mr. Mayor, thank you for the discussion on that.

Okay. We're going to move on uh to the next item, which is uh welcoming our VOTE colleagues uh up for their monthly report. Um and uh that will be followed by Miss Cooper um to talk about monthly report, six-year plan, and smart scale update. Good afternoon, Mr. Cassella. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the board. It's always great to be here. You may be before we get started on the report, you may be wondering, why do we have a sign in here? Yeah. Yeah. It's a big one, too, isn't it? Yes, it is. That's part of the reason I brought it in. But actually, this week is National Work Zone Awareness Week.

So, we're promoting, you know, safe driving habits and distracted driving is certainly an issue that continues to be a problem for uh our roadways in general, but especially in work zones. So, uh, that's what that's all about is just to bring awareness to this National Work Zone Awareness Week. Uh, many VRs will be wearing orange tomorrow in support of it. So, u, but sometimes people are impressed about the size of the sign. When you drive by them at 55 miles per hour, you don't typically think that they're as large as they truly are, but that is the that is the size. So,

I think what we might want to do, um, get Mr. Tosh to take a photograph with you and your staff in the sun so that we can get it up, um, on the county website and elsewhere. Okay. um if if we're prepared to do that. I know I'm catching staff uh cold on that. Um but yes, there you are, Kevin. Pardon? We did afterward. Okay. Yes, perfectly. Thank you. Okay.

All right. So, now we'll get into the report. Um previous activities for 30 days, just ordinary maintenance has been ongoing. Uh we're continuing that for the next 60 days. Uh we do have some millin overlay on routes. Uh we have route 670 Burnt Chimney Road from Route 900 3 Oaks Road to 834 Brooks Mill will be in the next couple of weeks. So I know your constituent uh Miss Smith had asked about that. So that'll be in the next couple of weeks. Uh route 663 Dillard's Hill Road from 945 Kemp Ford to 957 Lakesstone and route 636 Weissong Mill. Uh that entire road and we're actually on that one now. And then route 635 Ellis Road from 636 Weissong Mill to 675 Juniper. I assume they'll probably jump onto that one when they leave Wissong. Um then we have uh a pipe replacement project that was just completed. So that's an update on your report for Route 767. And we are scheduled to move into um Dylan's Meal Roads, Route 643 for another pipe. Uh that's going to be near the intersection of 744 Webster Corner Road and uh that should be in the next week or two to get started on that one. I do have a couple of really recent additions to your uh the report here. I've got some paving that'll be taking place on Route 40. Uh that's Franklin Street and uh that's going to be in midMay and it'll be from say Fair Elementary to Ironbridge Road. Uh then we have we're route 122 basically from Blackwater Bridge to the town limits. We'll be uh doing some paving on that

and that will probably have the rumble strips that wherever they've been identified as needed. So for either edge line or center line, I'm not certain, but that would likely go with that paving project. Uh we have also there was a a train that uh broke down today on six mile post and I didn't know if you all knew about that, but I thought just bring your attention to it. We set up a detour because it blocked six mile post and stave mill but that's since been lifted. So just um let's see moving on to the second page. Lots of land development activities there. Uh just call your attention of course to the VADI program for the fiber. Lots of fiber installation going. It's very prevalent in the county and in fact across the state. So uh that's keeping Miss Lewis quite busy. Uh let's see. We have some requested speed studies. uh route 122 Booker T uh for review uh north of Route 699 Angle Plantation for delineators. This is an area where uh this property was tempered nearby and now it's exposed that there is a steep slope there that's always been there. Uh so we're going to look to put some edge delineators along there just to make sure that it's a it's not a whole lot of shoulder right there. And now that the trees are gone, you can you can see that it's a large drop off. So, uh, and then route 671 Golden View and the, uh, Dovefield Road, um, intersection is a request for review of that. There's a very sharp curve right there where those two come together. And then on to our last page, um, route 657 Red Valley, the Royal Rustic Project. We have that open for charges and we're getting ready to go to construction as well as uh, Route 635 Nolla. So, those will be completed this construction season with a hard surface. Um, I would talk briefly about the Route 40 bridge again. Uh, that's the bridge replacement over Otter Creek where it's going to be closed for an extended

period of time. And, uh, the detour is going to be signed is dry heel. But I bring up because I'm going to talk a little bit later in the secondary six-year plan part about Brandy Oak 637. That's the cut through that's used. It's about 085 miles. So, I'll come back to that in more detail. And then lastly, we have our projects. uh for construction. No, no need uh for updates on that. The 220 Virtual Good and Summit View Business Park that's under construction still. I know they're active out there still today. And that concludes our report. So, I'll be glad to answer any questions. Thank you, Brian. Yes, ma'am. Any questions? Mr. Meredith, did you

Sure. Yeah. I told Brian I'll have a couple for him every time. Um just a couple things if you could check on uh about the 3500 block on uh Boone Mill Road, there's a huge dead pine. I think if a chicken hawk landing the top of it, it' tip over. All right. Uh it's about 3 ft off the road. And also on uh which which road was that again? Uh Boon Road just past Keith's garage if you're heading Yep. Okay. 160. And also on the Brum Book Mill Road where the onelane bridge is uh especially come summertime when the leaves are on trees. It's kind of hard to see. I'm sure you train all of your guys, you always looking ahead, but when you go in that bit,

it's hard to see if anybody's coming down from their side. So I don't know if there's something we could open the sight a little bit there. Look at cuz you know people's I know it's 45 and nobody goes through at 45. You're doing about 55 and then you're slamming on the brakes in the bottom. So, I just having a little more sight would be great there. Okay. And Mountaineer Lane, I didn't know if you've had any feedback or check on that or you still need time. Actually, I'm going to talk about that in our secondary six-year plan part, too. So, Okay. Thank you so much. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Meredith. Any other questions, comments? Okay. Thank you, Brian.

All right. Thank you. So, uh, we do have another presentation. If I can get Miss Cooper to come up with me. We're going to talk about the secondary six-year plan as well as the smart scale overview. I'll start with the beginning here, the secondary six-year plan. So, um, this slide here just shows the allocations that we will be getting. We have two funding sources. One of them is the teleph grant unpaved roads. So, uh, the district grant unpaved roads only can be used that funding can be used for roads that have 50 or more vehicles per day on them. So um you see that's quite a bit more than the telephe. The good news in here though is uh last year the allocations for the tel fee were $113,481 projected out. As you see this year uh the projections are up and that's reverse trend of what we've been seeing in years past. So that's the good news. But in all, you see the TEL fee in the six-year plan is $765,312 with the district grant unpaved at 1,423,98. So a total of the plan is 2,188410. So that's the good news. All right, this is currently what is in our secondary six-year plan. Uh I talked about Red Valley and Novella there. We're working on Webster Corner. Uh that one likely will be constructed next construction season. Uh then we have a segment of Timberline, Stave Mill and Narrows and then finally Clark. Um so those are currently what's in the plan and uh it looks like this year we may be able to add a project. So with that, uh Mountain Air is one of them that we were talking about. This is by no means necessarily a recommendation, but some some of the things that we think that some of the roads that we've identified either by superintendent or work order or

complaints or what have you. Uh certainly Mountaineer has been talked about quite a bit. So, uh we say that that might be a potential candidate. So, that's this is just planting a seed for you all. We'll have the uh public hearing for the um secondary six-year plan on May the 19th. So, uh, but Mountain Air Road, uh, Route 766 Beach Mountain Road, Route 690 Pinbrook, and then any that you all might want to also consider. So, all right. And on to Smart Scale.

It's that time again. It seems like the two years comes around very quickly here lately. Um, smart scale pre-applications were needed to be submitted by April 1st. Um this year the county submitted three projects um full applications. The portal opens up on June 1st and we have until July 30th to get all the refinements um estimates, drawings, everything in line to be submitted by the deadline August 1st. And then between August and December of 2026 is when the projects will go through the screening and scoring process with VOTE. And we hope we are successful. We should hear something in January, February, sometime around there. So the three projects, this one probably looks familiar. Brooks Mill Road and Scrugs Road. It's a roundabout. We've submitted it for a couple of years, but VOTE and and your county staff feel like it's still a really good project. we feel like it's needed um especially for the Westlake area. So, we are hoping it scores well and it gets funded. Um but this is shouldn't be new to some some of you it might be new but others you've seen it before. Um the newest project that we have and Brian um helped us with this project. This is you might recognize the area. This is where the high friction pavement surface um was put down because we had a lot of crashes.

So it was decided that it might be really good for smart scale projects. So VOTE has been working um with their engineers to get a drawing and an estimate. I think this is going to be a strong project because as we know that pavement isn't going to last forever. So, if we could get this um along with your Pleasant Hill and Cassels um project that will probably be under construction if it gets funded. Yeah. Within the six years.

Well, it the there's another project, the um Pleasant Hill um arut nicely with that one. So, we're hoping um we feel like it's a strong project, so we hope it gets funded. The other one that county staff and VOTE really um like it comes with a really high price tag. I think the last time we submitted it was4ome million dollar. I we don't foresee it going down, but they're working hard. This is Henry Road in 220. So, there's a lot going on with this map, but we're just trying to reduce crashes here. And if we could get that estimate down, I think it would be a really good project. We have several, it's such a big project, we have several maps that show how long it goes. Um, and I would be happy to answer any questions. I know we usually submit more applications, um, but there has been changes in Smart Scale and these were the three that we thought would be the best um, to be funded. So, I'd be glad to answer any questions. I will also be coming probably sometime in June, maybe July at the latest uh looking for a res resolution to support these projects and I might have a little bit more information by then.

Thank you. Maybe. Thank you, Miss Cooper. Questions, comments on um the proposal of these three projects. Mr. Meredith, real quick on the the roundabout Scrugs Road, is it possible or what's the criteria? I know the uh roundabout at the end of Wendy Gap Mountain on the Ron Oak side, you actually have a dedicated lane that kind of and I know the traffic flow on that road. I have to pull out there quite often. It it's nightmare. Is there a possibility on like you're going to West Lake stop of having that kind of a straight through lane where they merge in? I don't know. And I'm going ask that question because I think that would just help with the traffic focus. Some days that's there's a lot of traffic there.

Yeah, that's a good question. And I think the the reason for that, we call it a slip lane just to because of the sheer volume that's going through that intersection. And we do have high volume on Struggs Road, no doubt. But uh I think it probably didn't warrant that would be the reason we didn't do that in this case. So um the Hardy Road roundabout really flows well and uh I you with the amount of traffic that goes through there and we don't have a slip lane on that either. Um, so there we were trying to constrain this project as well with rightaway. Um, so I'll just I would think that it would have a greater impact on the property owners if we had the slip lanes, too.

All right. I was just curious what criteria. Thank you so much, Mark. Thank you, Mr. Meredith. Any other questions, comments? I'll just um I'll just say that the 220 project, I'll maybe give a shout out to former board member Ronnie Mitchell if you recall. this was one that you because he was familiar with a number of accidents there. I think he brought up before that is there something we can do to kind of straighten that out a little bit more. So I appreciate you guys

kind of looking through that. And just a little more background is is I know these projects go through a lot of of of work with with the VOTE staff with Brian's folks, but also the Salem folks of really trying to identify what are the the best viable projects that that we can put forward and and we are limited to four total projects that we can submit. Um and so I think you know staff's done a great job to come up with you know what are those projects that have the best opportunity to get funded there. there might be bigger needs out there, but it's it's really all about which ones have the most uh potential to get funded through this system um through this particular funding system. So, I appreciate all the work you you guys put into coming up with these projects and getting them ready.

Just a a couple notes. Um first of all, um the Rono Alagany Regional Commission that I chair, uh we just got through sending a letter um to um Dr. Smoot. Um, I'm sure you all probably copied with regard to the smart scale formula and we know that it's experienced changes over the last few years. The economic development piece is really what we focused on for some changes. Lisa's looking at me. Yeah. Um, so there's still a need for adjustment from a rural locality perspective and the rural localities here in Southwest Virginia are not being uh shy about about what we think. And the you know one of the driving rationale is Bedford County and our county Franklin County for the last two years we have not gotten one smart scale project and we have expressed our complete and utter discontent um with uh the Salem office as well as with Dr. Smoot and um we think we can do better. Um, you know, there are some personal observations that some of the changes to the formula really tend to benefit the more urban centers in the Commonwealth. Um, Northern Virginia as an example, uh, at the behest of some of our rural localities. Um and we're going to make sure that the uh rural localities, especially here in Southwest Virginia, um we're at standing up and advocating hard uh for appropriate smart scale changes to be in consideration because the last round of changes really almost in some of our regional partners and surrounding counties ruled out their possibility of ever getting a project and that's not okay. So, um I just wanted to put that in mind. And also, Lisa, with this $40 million project, some of the feedback we're getting, um

from Dr. Smoot, uh I think Mr. King even maybe um we were being encouraged to keep the project estimates lower than higher that they were, of course, there there's no predetermined answer on these, but the reality was the larger the project, the more uphill battle you may experience in getting an award. So that that $40 million project got my attention real quick. Um, so as you said, trying to minimize that down to a lower level, I think is a good thing for me to hear because maybe it'll increase our ability to get it funded at a lower level. Okay, Lisa, I'm sorry, Mr. Carter.

A comment on that 220 South, the $40 million project. When you all submit that, Lisa, do you include with that report about the number of accidents and fatalities and we do because there's been a ton of wrecks there for years and years and years. The um the guidelines let us do um five years. So, we do submit that and there's um part of the portal is how you justify and so that's why we think this one might be a good candidate is just I hate to say it but the serious crashes and fatalities um the score is I say the score is the name of the game

and um that's why we think it'll be a good project and I I I figured this board um would be in support of this project because you don't want to just continue putting that type of pavement down. If we could get a fix, then you wouldn't, you know, have to to worry about it anymore. So, I don't know how Brian feels about it and how other people, but I do talking to um Salem's staff, I feel like this is this is a very good project and probably personally I'll be disappointed if it's not funded.

Yeah, same here. We actually have a lot of data on this curve. Uh, as Lisa mentioned, we uh we did two different studies on the friction of this that whole geometry of the road and it's super elevation, meaning the road isn't like your typical crown section. It it goes into a super elevation, it comes out, and then it goes back in. And that combined with wet weather and the curve, it really throws the cars off. So, in those wet conditions, um, so we were able to identify the high friction surface treatment as an application, but that's only good for about 7 to 10 years. So then it may have to be redone again, but hopefully we can get this project funded and really get address the nature of the the real root cause of it, which is the super elevation.

Well, thank you all so much. And so from what I'm garnering from your comments, we can expect the request for a resolution in May, probably June. June if I can get some more information. I have to have the resolution for the August 1 deadline. Okay. So July would be the latest. I'd like to have some estimates, but I don't know if I will by then.

Well, any and all information that you guys have ahead of time for the board to maybe receive some detail so that we are informed about what we're asking for would be very and you all are very good about doing that. So, I just reiterate that and thank you for this work. Uh very important stuff and uh I know we've got the best staff, Miss Cooper. um you and your department in terms of your submissions are always and I hear it around the state. They're outstanding and we're very lucky to have that expertise in house. Thank you,

Madam Chair. I would just like to add I don't have the data behind it, but as someone who drives through there at least a couple times a day that there's been a noticeable difference in the accidents at that curve since that high friction pavement, a very noticeable difference. Yeah. And we actually have it in two places down towards uh the tire store. um the the shop down there. Smith, I think it's Smith. Yeah. Yeah. Uh we have it in that curve as you approach there too. So there has been a notice and even for me driving it when it's wet, there's a huge difference. That's good. All right. Uh no other questions or comments. Mr. Sandy,

just one one point. Um Brian, if if you could go back to the secondary six-year plan, I just wanted to um probably for Mr. Tatum's benefit more than anybody else is. Um I've I've bugged Brian a lot about this uh Brandy Oak Road is what can we do to improve that road and could we use could we put it on this list and use um secondary uh sixyear secondary plan funding to help us improve that road so when we do have that detour that people can take that shortcut. And so I wonder if you could share some of the limitations we have with with being able to use this funding to help us there.

Sure. Yeah. I'll go back to this slide here first. So, Brandy Oak by volume has 10 vehicles a day on it. Um, I'll go back to the Route 40 bridge where we're going to have the Dryill detour. Uh, we know that local folks will likely take Brandy Oak as a cut through to shorten the detour route, although we are signing Dry Hill to stay continued on it. Um, but the estimate, it's 085 miles long and our estimate was $800,000. It's a high level estimate, but that's seems to be what we're seeing in the construction world. Uh, as you see, Tel is the only money that we can put towards funding that project. Um, and I know the the desire would be to have that project funded within the year prior to the bridge being constructed, but that's unfortunately not feasible with the amount of money that we have available to apply to Brandy Oak. So, I hope that kind of puts a little light on it. Yeah, it's just the the concern we pressed is is emergency services in particular is that that shortcut cuts off a number of minutes, maybe 15 minutes in response time to some parts of that area. So, um wanted to see if there was anything we could do to get that road, you know, brought up to a a better standard. It's a gravel road. It's it's it's got some steep grade. It's got some wash out and things like that. So, I know um Brian and his folks have committed to keeping it wellmaintained during that time, but uh just so you know and the citizens know, we're still trying to find a funding source to help us get that paved or get it improved. But this unfortunately this program is not going to give us the dollars that we need in the amount of time we need to to get it done.

So, approximately how long will the um detour be in place? It was between a year and a year and a half. Really? Yes, ma'am. That's a big deal. a substantial project for that bridge. I mean, I know we've talked about this, but the public safety concerns are are very important. Yeah, there's a at the end of Brandy Oak, Brian, there's a bridge there. You all might want to take a look at that because that flood that came through there last year, it it was a lot of water uh came under it before you funnel all that traffic across that. Yeah, we actually have we we actually after the uh meeting we had out there, we rode by and looked at it, but it's been inspected as well. You good?

Yep. Anybody else? Okay. Is that all you all had for us this afternoon? Thank you all so much. We are in good hands and we appreciate I I've got to say hey to to Jet and to Lisa back there. Uh we're glad to have you all with us. Thank you. Okay, we will move on. The next item on our agenda um is Dr. Kevin Sears um monthly report from Franklin County Schools. Uh Dr. Sears, if you would come forward, please. And I think I think Ann might be going first and then turn it. Is that how you guys were planning to do it? That's how I was planning. Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

So, I think yeah, we just had it listed opposite, but I think Ann was going to present information first and then turn it over to Dr. Sears at at that point. So, as you know, Ann was with us last month. Um, Ann is is helping us as a consultant as we kind of look at the school budgetary um issues that we had and just really trying to work through what are some solutions there

um and and helping the the finance staff at the schools and helping our staff. Ann has done a great job digging in to uh to to some of those things and she's got some benchmarking presentation on some benchmarking, excuse me, benchmarking um that she's reviewed and looked at and so she's compiled a a presentation to to give you on that and then she also has some projections relative to the budget that I think she's going to share as well. So Ann, thank you and glad to have you again. Thanks for coming. Welcome Ann. We're so glad to have you.

Yes, thank you for having me again. and it's nice to be with all of you. So this afternoon, what we're going to start with as far as the discussion about school finances is the benchmarking presentation that we put together. U Mr. Carter requested this last month. U brought the topic up and I think I said sure we can do that. Um and it's been a it's been a fun project and an interesting project and I will admit it's been a little bit of work. So um hopefully it'll provide all of you some really helpful information though. And um what I would say is that this is really um a performance measurement story. And we're going to show you some input information about um about both dollars and uh staffing efforts that are put into education here in Franklin County and how it compares with six other county school divisions that are basically all neighbors. And we're also going to look at some output information as well. So um with that, we'll go ahead and get started with your first slide. And um so the first step was really to determine with whom would we benchmark. And so this is the list that we've come up with um including Franklin County. This is six counties. We looked at a couple of others and um I worked pretty closely with both um Mr. Carter and Mr. White in uh county administration and finance to just determine, you know, what would be the right uh group here. And so on this slide, what you have is just a little bit of information about each of the ones that are included. Um, I think probably an important piece of data is that school enrollment number which we um, source from the Virginia Department of Education information. Um, Henry County probably being the one that's most comparable here to Franklin County, but then also a little bit of information just kind of broadly about the size, um, geography, uh, obviously, you know, there's a a rur rural characteristic here, but also um, influenced by the the lake and kind of the suburban um portion as well. and then um a little bit of information and

comparison across these counties as far as the economic profile is concerned. And so I'm going to jump right into the um information that we have to share with you today. And um I'll just set the table by saying that as much as possible, I like to use what I would call third-party information. um data that's that's objective that um you know someone other than the county itself might uh be responsible for. And so the two main sources of information for this presentation today are information that come from the Virginia Department of Education, a lot of information from the state superintendent report and then also some information from the um state auditor of public accounts comparative cost report for fiscal 25. And so this first slide is um information regarding important inputs and that is the pupil teacher ratio. And this slide as well as many of the slides you're going to see are organized so that um the data is shown from like the the the strongest in this case the strongest performer to the weakest performer. So um and most of these slides Franklin County's um bar is in its own color. So you can quickly see where Franklin County rests in the group. And so sort of the headline here is Franklin County Public Schools has the lowest pupil teacher ratios in the group, which which is great. You know, we like to have as as much focus on our students as possible in terms of the number of students for each teacher. And so um there are two measurements here. One is K through K through 7, the chart on the left, and then um grades 8 through 12, the chart on the right. Mhm. And this is from the superintendent report for school year 2425, the most recently produced year. And um the Virginia average is what's shown for both of those charts by by the horizontal line.

Ma'am, can I Madam Chair, of course. Can you go back to that one, please? Just to be sure for me and the audience that we are clear. So when your pup pupil teacher ratio K through 7, Franklin County is at 10.91 compared to Henry County being 14.17. That is saying that our to students to one teacher in Franklin County is 10.91 students to one teacher compared to 14.17 children to one teacher in Henry County. Yes, sir. Which puts us exactly even with Rono County. That's right. That's right. We're at the bottom and we're so we're tied for lowest technically on on that particular chart, the K through seven chart.

I just want to make sure clear on that. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mitchell. That's right. Your interpretation is correct.

Okay. And then the next chart that's included in your presentation is um about about spending. And so this one is sourced from the auditor of public accounts report. And um just a little bit of information about that. I think it's unique to Virginia. I think there might be one other state in the country that has something similar, but I think this is something pretty unique to Virginia whereby all local governments are required to submit data to the state auditor of public accounts and they prescribe how that data needs to be arranged and submitted. And so it really in theory it's the most apples and apples way of comparing different communities rather than like me just going to their annual report and picking up that data. The APA report is going to do the best job of making sure that everyone is comparing themselves equally throughout the state. Okay. So um included in the APA cost report is of course revenue data, expenditure data and so here I selected expenditure data and there's a whole set of data about education. Um I stripped out there's a piece for funding of community colleges and I took that out because we're talking about um you K through 12 here. And so what this chart is uh present is intended to depict is the uh per student expenditure for each of the counties that we are benchmarking against. And so the um expenditures are from the auditor of public accounts fiscal 25 report. And then that student number is the um endofear ADM. And so here you can see that the Franklin County um dollar amount per student at just about almost $18,000 is fairly consistent with the group. What we see on this slide if you know I

would call them slight outliers. Um Bedford not quite as much. Henry County definitely looks like an outlier to me being so much higher than the others. But you know what we really see is for the most part the group is somewhere in that 172 to 178 range. Um with Franklin County being a little bit on the upper end of that but for the most part you know consistent with its what I'm calling its peer group here. Do you know Ann is transportation included in that figure?

It is. and and is the difference in the Henry County I know Henry County ranks very different than us on the LCI and along with Bedford that has not been affected with the LCI. Could that contribute to their variation in this graph? Um it could and we're going to look at LCI in a minute. Yes, that that certainly could have a factor. Okay. Um, and so yeah, and maybe hold that thought and when we get to the LCI, we'll talk a little because there's a couple of slides in the LCI and after that take a look at LCI and also in relation to local spending. Yes, ma'am.

So, but good question. Okay. Next. So, next what I do is basically um break that into just instructional and non-instructional. So, the question about transportation would fit into the non-instructional. Okay. And so, um, but it's the same idea as the one I just went over. And so, here, um, we see, you know, a little bit more variation. Um, Franklin County is, you know, a little bit above the halfway mark in instructional and on a little bit more on the lower end on the non-instructional expenditure per student. And so 13,000 on the instructional side and then um a little under 5,000 on non-instructional. And again, the horizontal line is going to show the average. And I think on th this slide, it's not the average of all of Virginia. It's the average of this benchmark group. So basically, Franklin County is spending a little bit more than average on instruction and less than the average of this peer group on non-instruction. All right. And then the next thing I looked at um again using the auditor of public accounts report is just kind of an interesting factoid is what what is each of these jurisdictions what is its educational spend as a percent of its total government expenditures. Okay. And so um Franklin counties is a bit on the low end. Franklin County and Rono County were actually the same um on this one. Henry County on the high end. And then the average was 57%. Now we start getting into LCI. And so of

course um the local composite index is um prepared by Annaly and the Virginia Department of Education uh website is where I got this information. And so this is this is basically um an index that gives us information about the local government's ability to fund itself versus in theory need state funding. And so the lower the index, the more the less I guess the locality has the ability the economic ability to fund itself. The higher the index in theory, the greater the locality's ability to fund itself. And so in theory, the lower the index, the it's not theory, it's truth. The lower the index, the greater amount of state funding. The higher the index, the less state funding. And so here, I mean, it's it's positive from the economic sense that Franklin County is has the highest LCI of the group, but it's going to lead to the less amount of state funding of this group. All things equal.

Okay. So, I'll just let you let you see this for just a second. Question on that. It seems odd that Bedford and Franklin County are so different. You know, both have a lot of lake residents and you would have thought there would be a similar outcome. Do do you have a reason why the two are so different? Unfortunately, I do not. I can see what I can find out about that, but I think Brian can give you that.

Uh, Mr. Quinn, we could probably provide some context. Um, Bedford County currently is in a what I'll call a a rate adjustment moratorum where the city of Bedford converted to a town several years ago. And so, their LCI is looking to reset, I believe, around 2028. And so I think um Bedford probably between the lake and the forest growth has been shielded from the LCI impact due to that moratorum. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And they're they're planning for that to increase in in that FY28 period I think.

Yeah. Thank you for remembering that. We talked about that and I I it slipped my mind. So thank you so much Brian. All right. So then we have another slide that's going to continue having the bars that you just saw. And then layered upon that is median household income. And this one was pretty fascinating to me because you see that the median household income kind of hovers and and more or less moves in a similar direction as the bars until you get to the end. Really little bit botto. And really Franklin, I mean, you would think this line would kind of continue flowing upward and and it does not. And so I think anecdotally, one of the things that we think is that um these lake value influence real estate values may disproportionately um influence the LCI for Franklin County. Not sure, but a little bit of a theory. Um, and then next, what what this did, um, something I did with the LCI data was I I got the data, downloaded it into an Excel file, and I just sorted it by LCI. And so what what I did with this slide was gathered some LCIs that are close to both on the above and below Franklin counties but close to it and you know perhaps some localities is like Hanover County you know that's in the Richmond area and so you know yeah their their LCI is higher than Franklin counties but not a lot higher it's pretty close and and then just also showed the median household income and so I think What what our takeaway was on this slide was that, you know, if you look at the if you look at the flow of LCI upward and you look at more or less an upward flow on income, it's not

perfect. There's some bobbles in that. Um, you know, Franklin County's household income is low compared to, you know, a little higher LCI. Um, now Rockbridge counties is also a low income. Not really sure what's going on there. that that seems also disproportionate. But, you know, look, you look at an entity like Henriiko County, also in the Richmond area, Orange County, you know, kind of close to that Charlottesville area. Um, just interesting some of these communities that are close to yours in terms of its LCI benchmark. Little little surprising there. Okay. And then now we're going to shift a little bit to a couple of output measurements that I examined using the superintendent's annual report. You know, kind of the how are we doing with our students. And so this first one is the percent of students promoted. And um if you'll note here at the source area, it it talks about it's the percent not in the same grade two consecutive years. And so, um, unfortunately on this one, uh, Franklin County is a little bit on the low end at just under 98%. Um, the range for this benchmark group was 97.3% up to 99.1%. And the Virginia average is what's shown with the horizontal bar, the Virginia average being right around 98.5%.

I have a question on that also. How much discretion is there for a school system to promote a student? Is any of it is it any is it all non-discretionary? Answer that question.

We have a lot of discretion. Typically the retention rate is the highest in ninth grade when they have to start earning a certain number of credits to be promoted on. And there's usually a a kind of a bottleneck in ninth grade of students who who might be a credit short. they end up getting caught up later on, but for the first year for what would be their 10th grade years, they are counted as being retained that year. You know, I realize that we look low there, but we catch a lot of heat. We're promoting kids people don't think should be promoted. So, I don't know that this is necessarily a bad thing in that it shows that we are holding students to some type of academic standard before we move them on. Whereas a lot of divisions you are promoted regardless of whether or not you did anything that year.

Good point.

Before you move on, I just had one observation. Um, a few slides back you showed the amount of money spent per locality, per student, and it showed Henry County was uh a substantial a bit more than everyone else. But then when we look at the graph that shows the the lag of students, um, Henry Cannon was at the bottom. So that's telling me that they might be spending a lot more money, but apparently it's not having the uh outcome that that they would want because according to your graph, they're at the bottom here

even though they spent more money. Okay. Thank you.

That's a good observation. All right. Next, um, on the output perspective, take a look at so pass rates on a couple of slides. And this first one's a little harder to look at because it's, you know, it's just it's simply line. Um, and it's busy. Um, and but Franklin County is the green and tried to make it a heavier bright line so that you could see it a little bit better. Um, I might go ahead and move to the chart which follows where you can you kind of see the numbers that are behind that. Um, and we'll flip back. So, what I did was I I said, "Well, okay, let's just put it all together and kind of just from a comparison point." And so, I guess unfortunately, as far as the pass rates go, Franklin County ranks fifth of seven. So, a little bit close to to the bottom of that. Um, looking again at this detailed chart, uh, what I can tell you is it's sixth out of seven for English reading. It's actually second place out of seven on history and social science and then fifth mathematics, sixth in science. So really strong in one area and you know on the bottom half for a couple of areas in terms of so pass rates and again this is 2425 state superintendence report

and could I just qualify that as well? Absolutely. That is correct. We are in a strong academic area. What is missing from that report is the fact we actually went up from 33rd in the state to 26th in the state in that same year. So we are making strides and we were very close overall with a couple of those divisions but this area in general does very well academically Franklin County and the surrounding counties. Dr. Sears just for future reference if you'd come to the microphone. All right. That would be very helpful. Thank you. You can come on up now if you want to. No, I'm glad to have your your I mean you've got the expertise on the education.

I just want to make sure everybody can hear. Okay, I have I have a question on this or just a comment to make. So, it's interesting that we have such a good teacher to student ratio, right, amongst the best and yet our so pass rate isn't that great. You would think that the higher teacher to student ratio would translate into a higher so pass rate, but it doesn't apparently. So, it's just a comment, not a question.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Quinn. And I mean that's one reason we want to look at both input measurements and output measurements. You know, we want to put resources into the division, but also want to make sure that that that those results are, you know, um strong and and hopefully on an improving trend as Dr. Sears mentioned. Okay. So, um the next thing that I graphed for you is a a trend. So most of these are compare are looking comparatively across jurisdictions one-year data. Okay. Then this one is looking at only Franklin County but five years of data. And there are two lines here. The um one that is the downward trend the orange line is enrollment. So enrollment trend is decreasing. And then the there two they're similar in color. I probably should have made the colors different. is more red line is the education expenditures and this does come from the county's ACT for the county's annual report. There are a number of um schedules in the toward the back of that report that share tenure data and so both the enrollment data and the expenditure education expenditure data came out of your your all's own annual report. Okay. So, so this is just raw data uh graphed so you can see that trend. And then what's on your next slide is um the per pupil investment, the per pupil expenditures. And here I also um adjusted it using CPI to try and get us as apples as apples as possible because obviously over a 5-year period there's inflation. And so what this is going to show you is that on a per pupil basis over that period of time the investment per student did increase. Um we knew that the raw investment

increase but what happens when you do per student it it increased as well. A quick question if we go back one slide. Do you have a chart showing what the decrease in LCI funding? I I I know this looks like the countyy's investing more money, but also I think the county was forced to because of LCI numbers. So, do you have a graph showing the I don't have your LCI trend? No, but that's that would be a good piece of information to look at is what the five-year trend is. Do you do you have that off the top of your head or do you all know the LCI trend for Franklin County? I I did not look at it other than this 26 28 benium.

Right. Yeah, you are correct. Um, so the last two cycles of LCI has reduced state funding and so the county made up some difference. The county did not make up all of the difference of the state funding loss from the last LCI. So if you look at a total school budget, it would be a little bit different graph, but for local funding only, you are correct. That's the gap and the county was we weren't forced to because we fund above the required local effort the minimum the state sets uh but the county chose to do so but it it did not offset 100% of the state revenue loss in that LCI adjustment.

All right. I appreciate I just think that's needs to be clarified that it looks like we're putting more money in there but was actually the state put less. So we're just kind of zeroing out the loss. That's correct. Correct. Okay. Thank you.

One other comment I'll make. um here about this data. Again, just to remind everybody, the earlier per student expenditure data was sourced from the APA cost report which probably has some debt data that's allocable to schools. It's going to be a little different than this. So, this is definitely apples and apples. It's it's data from comparing these five years in an in an equitable manner, but it's it's just that which is reported as um expenditures in your annual report, not the auditor public accounts report. So, a little bit different measurement. So, um and with that, we've been having questions and discussion as we go, which is great, but I'll just uh conclude and just see if anyone has any final remarks or questions or requests for additional information.

Thank you. And I think Mr. Mr. Mitchell would like to begin. To Mike's point, Brian, does the required local effort does that change as the LCI affects our school funding? Does do do they raise their required local effort as they reduce state funding? I I don't know that they're how directly they are correlated, but yes. Uh typically as the state funding is reduced, the required local effort is increased. Oh, yeah. I don't know that it's dollar for dollar, I guess, is what I'm saying, but they there is a correlation there. That's correct. I'd like to know what that is as an answer to that.

I'm pretty sure the state department of education probably can't answer that for you, but because it's some formula in a computer system somewhere, but um we we can look at a trend. So maybe what we can do, Mr. Mitchell, is ask our school staff and and maybe their counterparts at the state level um if there's a some kind of formula correlation. And if not, we can do some research on our end. Thank you. Yes, sir. Any other questions, comments for Ann? Mr.

I I just have a comment. So, um the uh number of teachers that we have for our group of students is significantly higher than than average. But it's kind of interesting that our cost per student is is about at the average. And I would conclude that that's because our teachers are not being paid competitively, right? They're all they're many steps behind. So, it's just a it's just a comment, not a question. But when you put all the data together, that's that's a conclusion that I would have. Okay. Can we go back to that slide where it showed the ratio to pupil teacher to pupil ratio?

I'm going to ask again. I keep hearing the comment that we're high. Am I taking that the wrong way? according to this graph.

So I I would say I say what this presents is we would call our performance strong in that we have fewer children sitting around listening to any one given teacher. So for one teacher teaching K through 7 in Franklin County they have on average 11 kids whereas in Henry County they have on average 14 kids. 8 through 12 in Franklin County they actually have 10 kids. So even less than that K through seven, which is a little surprising. You would think your little ones would have the best teacher ratio. But here it says your pupil teacher ratio for grades 8 through 12 is a little bit lower. And then for Hen like for Henry County, Henry County is at the top of both of these. Henry County has on average 13 kids for each um teacher, which really all of that seems pretty low. I mean, if you said, well, what's a good teacher student ratio? Many of us would say, well, 15, 20, I don't know. So, so really all of these to me seem pretty good, but Henry C, I mean, Franklin Countyy's is is the best if you're looking for small class size.

And I and I think a key is I'm looking at the average that 10.9. That's less than one student extra less in that classroom than everybody else in our area. So, and 8 through 12 pretty much one student less per classroom. So, I think sometimes these bars, we look at them and oh, that looks like a big difference, but in reality, we're only talking with one student less per classroom on that ratio. That we look at and the Virginia average.

Yes, the Virginia average. Thank you for that. that kind of this kind of mass another point though and that's that for our student population is what 6,500 or somewhere around there we have about 100 more teachers than you would have for if you had the same number of students somewhere else 100 more so this this kind of makes things look really close but then you say wow I have 100 more teachers and that's a lot of money but but then you'd say well but how how is it the cost per student this almost the same right you you saw the cost per students the same. It's because our teachers are being paid less and the and the cost are are our um the the it's like 70% of the school budgets going into the teachers. So that's how that's happening.

Any other questions? Mr. Jameson, how how does St. Henry County, which has a 14 to one compared to Franklin County as far academics go? I guess we can look at some of the I I think Supervisor James once she gets there, they're at the bottom. Can you go back one slide? That line at the very Whoops. The only one. This one? Yes. That line at the very bottom is Henry County. That's so pass. Is that correct? That's Henry. Yeah. So, they're spending a whole lot more money.

You're Henry County and getting a lot less results. But that's that's them at the bottom with that. If you look at the raw numbers, you can you can really see that um you know 61 versus I mean you got you got this group in the 70s 80s and then Henry County 61 uh 65 here. Yeah, I think that's correct. That that that lowest color is Henry County. Mr. Jameson, does that satisfy your your question? Anybody else questions, comments? Okay, Ann, thank you so much. I appreciate you being with us this afternoon. You are welcome. I will call Dr. Sears up at this time. Got one more. One more.

I got one more. What has I'm finished, but I guess am I leaving this next one too? And can I get to it or do you need to get How do we do this? Maybe it's in here. I better the presentation. This spouse Oh,

so how do I make it like zoom in a little? I want to make it take up the whole screen just to make it as big as possible. Good.

And do the board members have this as well? Just because it's it's okay, great. Because it's it's a little small up on the screen. Okay. So, um once again, this month, like we had last month, we have a financial report for you. And so, this time we're looking at the 9-month period ended March 31st. And um just like last month, we've got the major categories of school revenues um in rows on the left and major categories of expenditures come next on the left and then a change in net position. And then um the columns that we're presenting to you this time are pretty much the same as last month with the addition of one um additional column that is super important and that is the fourth column of numbers the projected for fiscal 26. What you might recall from last month was that we shared actual data we shared percent budget. weren't quite ready to give you the crystal ball projection for the fiscal year as a whole, but with a lot of hard work between um administration and finance on the county side and Dr. Sears and his team on the school side, we've come up with a projection to share with you today. And so I'm going to provide some highlevel comments about this. Uh Dr. Sears will be chiming in on some uh information to support those projections and then of course we'll open it up to questions from all of you as well. And so this leftmost column of data is our March year-to- date results. So again, nine months out of the year. Um, next to it is the current budget. And the budget does get amended every month. And there were some amen amendments that took place during March that change these numbers from the prior month. And then the third column, that percentage column, is just the mathematics of how much of March year-to- date is as a percent of that current budget. And so, um, I'm going to kind of pause

and make a couple of comments about those columns, um, so far. And so, um, and what I'll start with is, and I do like using this pointer because then I can find things. So, a couple of just highlevel things is to tell you that, you know, if everything was flowing evenly and smoothly throughout the year, we would be at 75%, you know, 912ths. And so, on the revenue side of the house, we're just a little bit above that, which is good, positive. we're at 76%. On the expenditure side of the house, we're just a little bit below that at 74%. So, also, you know, slightly positive. And so, those two positive results are what give us this change in net position through March that's positive at a little bit over 2 million. Okay? And of course, you have a a balanced budget. 99.1 million of revenues budgeted, $99.1 million of expenditures budgeted. So, a balanced budget. Okay. Um, and so the next column to talk about is the projection column. And I want to talk just a little bit about about methodology. For me, methodology mostly relates to looking at trends or expecting trends to continue the same as what we're seeing so far. and also some examination of the prior year as well just to see you know how did the prior year tend to flow and what do we expect about the current year um on the revenue side your state funding makes up 42% of school revenues and county funding and this is from a budget perspective now county funding makes up 37% of budgeted school revenues so two things that make up just the lion share of those revenue revenues, state sales tax 10%, federal funding 10%, and then your other is just 1%. So very small. And so, you know, when we put effort into things, we really want to

focus on that state funding. Um, also the sales tax and federal funding. Um, and so then on the state funding side, um, I did some trend work and then two different individuals, uh, working engaged by the school division did detailed analyses there. I was coming up with something more along the $40 million line. The school staff came up with a number a little bit more like 41.2 million. And so we used an average of those in order to develop the forecast you see here of 40 million640. Now if that amount is generated, it's going to result in about a $1 million shortfall uh 2% uh short of the budget. last year in terms of performance that particular revenue was 5% under budget um which was about a $2 million shortfall. So, you know, we will wait. We will see how things continue to evolve as we move through the last quarter of this fiscal year, but that's the projection as it stands now. on the next line item, state sales tax. I um the state sales tax flows two payments per month come to the school division on a delayed basis from retail sales activity flows to the commonwealth and flows to the school division. And so I built a model that I've used in a prior um employment situation to uh project the sales tax performance. And what I saw when I looked at that is fairly consistent flow of sales tax over the last two completed years, which gave me a lot of confidence in using that model to develop the estimate you see here. Little bit over 10 million uh positive performance of about 200,000 or 2% against um your your budget, your revenue estimate. On the federal funding

side, again, that one was very similar to state funding where I um I did something that was really a a trendgenerated estimate, but relied heavily on the work that was done by Dr. Sears um employees uh in developing their projections of federal revenue. There was some variance between a couple of their projections, but one of them we really selected to rely on the most and that developed that estimate that you see of 9,45,000. Again, that would fall slightly short of the budget and and result in a a 5% underperformance in terms of federal revenues. Um other other funding, we basically worked uh jointly in analyzing that. uh did a trend evaluation and also took into consideration an adjustment that we are expecting related to um food service and other funding. That one also results in uh underperformance of the budget to the tune of about 300,000 and change and um which is and that's the largest percent underperformance that 28% there. That one also was fairly um it it underperformed last year to a pretty significant degree as well. And then county funding, the anticipation is that it would exactly equal the budget that is currently in place. On county funding, I would like to point out that it's at 89% of your budget right now. In a perfect world, it would be at 75%. That 89% is reflective of the basically the cash position of the school division and is influenced by the fact that both your state sales tax and your federal funding are are behind if you will on our year-to-ate

expectation. And if I could just make a clarifier there to see if you agree, um the the county funding piece to clarify using your 75% average number. Um just in layman's terms, the school system is clicking away at county local dollars at 89%. And so they are they're spending money quickly here at year end or moving towards year end faster than we would anticipate. And I'll get Brian to answer this later. Um, so that to me is where a large level of concern is because the school system typically runs through about three to four million dollars a month and clicking through at 89%. Um, and the school system having coming into a deficit situation again. Um, I think that number looms large in terms of going through and spending local dollars um that they don't have. I I think maybe one sound bite I would share about that that county funding is when we look at the budget of 36 almost 37 million the dollar amount that 75% represents is 27 million 722 what has been paid is 32 million722 so 5 million in advance funding has been provided so $5 million above and beyond what would level if it were done equally throughout the year has been provided.

What is it when you take away the 2 million that is currently in the change in net position though? That cuts it down to a degree, doesn't it? I think that cuts it down to about eight 80. I I share your concerns and it's not that we're we're actually spending less than we had budgeted at this point in the year. is the revenue has not been coming in right at this point. So the county funds have had to supplement the the slowness in the state sales tax and the federal revenue.

Um but there is if you look down at the bottom the change in that position is $2 million. So, I think you've got to subtract that from the the five million that has uh in addition add additional county money that's been provided up to this point. And that puts the county number, which is still very high, but it's actually around 83% uh instead of uh 89%. I think what you're trying to say is you you don't need to have positive change in net position of 2 million. You could be just break even. And if if you if you stripped out that 2 million, the percentage would be lower. Is that what you're pointing out? Yeah. And we'll get back we'll go to that in a little bit. I don't mean to interrupt you, Ian. Um, no, it's okay. It's there's a lot of numbers and a lot of data and I mean

because we're going to want to drill down on that with Mr. Carter from the county's perspective. Yeah. Madam Chair, can I have Oh, I'm sorry. You want to go, M. Quinn? You can go first.

I I understand what the county what is doing. My concern is this state and federal funding and I'm sure those numbers come from somewhere or projections in that part. And I'm kind of curious on the year before is the state and federal actually matching year to year what they say or their projections or is these projections off or what's causing that little bit of a difference there? um cuz I'm looking at you know close to a million dollars you're anticipating maybe not getting from the state and also half a million. So I'm looking at 1.5 million from there. So, I guess my question is, is there a flaw somewhere? And I'm not pointing fingers at anybody cuz I know the state and federal's going to do whatever they want to do, but are they misleading the counties of in our state saying we're going to give you this month and then you're almost need to anticipate they're going to give you 10% less? I don't know if I'm asking the right question there, but it's you can't have counties anticipating getting a certain amount of money, then at the end of the year, they short change you 1.5 million and then the taxpayers of the county has to shore us up. because I'm I'm looking at the expenditures and yes it's a little concerning to me that u your projections is 670,000 overs but if we had this 1.5 million you know from the state level I think that would take less burden off the county and I I may be looking at this wrong and I don't know if I asked a good question

question so basically I think your question is you know is there is there are there is it problematic is the state funding formula problematic is it is it maybe not accurate or um is the state not coming through with what its formulaic method would indicate a school division could get I think is what you're getting at.

And we'll have to let you answer that because I don't get into those details. Yeah, I I mean I would just say at this point um you know we are still analyzing the numbers and we think in the end they are our projections are better than what appear here but we also understand there are a lot of variables that we're still trying to pin down to to get better numbers on that. Um the state funding part of that is because our enrollment loss was uh more than was projected in the budget for this year to the tune of uh 200 and some thousand that that we ended up having cut at the end of the year. Um the federal funding we believe will come in closer to 9 a.5 million than uh than the 9,ion45,000 with the most updated projections. But all of that we're still trying to finesse and get a better handle on and and hopefully we will have a better handle on that in the next couple weeks. You know, the the government shutdown and the delay that we've experienced in funding u has contributed to that and and we're but we're it's rolling in now. I think there were uh uh some funds that came in after the first of the month that haven't been factored into this at all that will help paint a little better picture here too once that that once they are added in. So if I if I understood you correctly, so at the beginning of the year, you go by a certain student enrollment and that's your funding from the state.

Yeah. Then during the year they check your enrollment again. I think it's in October if I'm not mistaken. And they will adjust your budget based off that number. Yes. And so are we making adjustments?

They give us a number to budget off of. And we always budget off the state's number. And uh then based on the September 30th numbers, that's what you get your state allocation based on through uh the spring. And then the March 30th numbers are final. So they make any adjustments based off the March 30th numbers and it will impact your funding for the remainder of the year. And and this year that is uh costing us about $200,000. And so y'all make adjustments soon as you see the adjustments at that time or

we make adjustments where we can but you know at the end of the year it is difficult to to we have made some adjustments and I'll talk about those in a few minutes what we're doing to try to make expenses even uh less than they are currently. Um but uh you know usually we actually come out okay. The the March 30th numbers are usually very close to what the budget was built on. This is the first time uh at least since I've been here or since I've been a superintendent that we've had a uh you know that significant of a enrollment loss that affected the budget as much as it has this year.

Okay. So, I guess what I'm I mean I'm just trying to wrap my head around is so really whatever your first number is, you almost probably ought to take 10% or adjust it right then and just hope for the best, you know, if you get it through the year. Yes. Instead of staying at high number and then you get caught in this situation is that that could be a good practice to reduce the state projection even more. Okay. Thank you. Oh, I'm sorry. Please. Yeah. So um both of you mentioned that the sale state sales tax was be behind but I think what you meant the state funding is behind right it's not the sales tax because because the sales tax is ahead right just

now the sales tax on a year-to-ate basis is is reflected here as being a little bit behind um I if if everything flowed evenly throughout the year we find that with the retail sales that doesn't work and so um that that one is a little unusual in that the projection is calling for us to top the budget even though the year-to- date is behind a little bit. Yeah, the projections are

but the this little model that I put together that I was telling you all about earlier, I mean it's a it's a month-by-month model. And so it's designed to look at the flow um what we expect to happen each of those months, the rest of the year. And there there will be an acrruel that's done for accounting purposes at the end of the year to properly report um the the the sales tax that belongs with your fiscal year ending June 30th even though we receive it after that date.

I know. And then so the second thing I was really pondering what Mike mentioned it's almost as if you'd have a best case and a worst case for the state and federal funding, you know, and then you'd be budgeting based on your worst case because you don't really know, you know, and like Mike was saying, well, may maybe go 10% below whatever you think. But it's it I'm just I'm just kind of wondering not it's not a question but wondering how can you budget better to not have the these numbers are varying throughout the year both the state funding and the federal funding and and and you're trying to budget and you don't really know where the numbers are going to end up. It's just it's it's difficult. I I see that. And then I I did have one question. So, you know, we've had a number of teachers that have talked about how they're really eager for phase three to be implemented. And the reason is because now that goes into their retirement number, right? And I don't know if it's it's the last year you work or the last three-year average it, but it's some there there it seems like you have a bunch of teachers that are waiting for this to happen, right? The catchup. And so the question to you is if if you implemented phase three and now those teachers have been caught up, are you going to have an exodus of these expensive teachers which will help you down the road because they've just been waiting to retire, right? And now you're finally paying them the top rate and they can retire and get the highest retirement. So they're they're going to leave. is that is that and the reason I'm asking I think that if it was true I'm just it's a hypothesis but it could help your situation it could it would be three years at your highest 36 consecutive months is what retirement is based on. So, if we were to implement phase three and get all of those teachers to the top of the scale who deserve to be at the top of the scale, um, but have not been put there yet because they had their salaries frozen so many times, um, you know, they would still need to work three years at the top of the scale in order to have a

retirement based on that. So, what what you're saying could happen, um, I don't expect everyone would leave at once, though. I think a lot of folks, you know, still need to work past retirement age for health insurance and other reasons, but uh we could see, you know, a significant loss of teachers once they get the those three years in at the top of the scale. All right. Thank you.

Um, a couple of more highlevel items I'd like to share on the revenue side before we look at expenditures. So, just, you know, couple major things here. As of right now, we're expecting a shortfall on the revenue side of just under 1.6 million or 2% overall. And unfortunately, just about every category will underperform other than state sales tax and county funding. Um, last year, where are my glasses so I can see? last year uh once a year was finalized and an audit report produced the school division um had excess revenues of almost 3 million or 3%. So, you know, definitely looking like a different picture. Um and I think as Dr. Sears mentioned, you know, this was the first time we did this. And so we're going to go through this exercise again in April and again in May and again in June. And so as we do that and we get more data and we just have more experience doing this together. You know, we hope that we will be able to get the pencil sharpened and all that. Right now, if anything, we want to heir on the side of conservatism, which means don't project more revenue than you think you're going to bring in. Um, yes, there's some averaging going on between my view and the school division staff view, but you know, this hopefully this is the most pessimistic view that we have to share with you right now. Okay. Um, so let me move on to expenditures and talk a little bit about that as well. You know, same idea. We've got the categories presented here. Um, instruct I want to kind of give you the piece of the pie uh layout right now. instruction, the biggest one by far. Uh budget to budget, it's 71% of that slice of pie. Both pupil transportation and operation and maintenance, the third and fourth line, 9% each. Your um administration and health 4%, food

service, 4%. The other categories really are, I mean, almost negligible. Um you debt service is important. We don't want to not pay our debt obligation, but it's it it rounds out to 0% of that pie. So, instruction, uh, transportation, operation, and maintenance together make up 90%. So, those those are the biggies. Um, and we worked together as well on this one to mostly for me trend the data. um the school division had more sophisticated methods of developing estimates and pretty much the numbers that you see here in the projected column are those that were derived uh by the school division staff. Um, I think for the most part my numbers and theirs were fairly consistent with each other except for instruction where my my projection was lower, but I don't have a line of sight about 10 month contracts versus one 12-month contracts, etc. So, you know, certainly defer to them and would expect theirs to be more accurate. High level on the expenditure side expecting about a $700,000 overspend uh 1% of that budget. And so when we put the revenue underperformance with expenditure overspending together, we're at about 2 point about two and a quarter million dollar in terms of projected shortfall for the year. On the expenditure side, a number of categories lead to that over expenditure. Uh most notably instruction, also administration, attendance and health, food service, and then there are a number of categories with positive performance. The positive number indicates positive performance. So on the revenue side, it means we bring revenue in above and beyond budget. On the expenditure side, that positive type

number means there's there's spending less than the budget. Um, and I would just basically because I'm an accountant and this is what accountants say, um, you know, my encouragement would be that the school division should work really, really hard to make sure that it does not overspend its total appropriation. We don't want that to happen. Um, and so, you know, there's there's some work to be done. I think Dr. Sears referenced that. And so, let me turn it to you, Dr. Sears, to add comments as you may wish about the categories.

Thank you. And I am not as talented of speaking off the cuff, so I prepared comments to, if you'll indulge me. Um, Madame Chair, Mr. Sandy, members of the board, thank you allowing for allowing me to speak today. I'll just say the last few days have really been a roller coaster ride as we begin to uh try to pin down our budget projections for the remainder of the year. On the plus side, we have been whittle able to whittle down what was last week a 4.3 million discrepancy between the county projections and our projections to what you see today. And let me start by saying that the current 2.2 2 million projection presented today is still higher than our internal numbers indicate, but we understand that there are a lot of variables to be worked through before the our counterparts at the county might be comfortable with those projections. Um there's no doubt that this year is an incredibly tight budget year and we greatly appreciate everyone's help on the county side to make sure that we don't experience a repeat from FY25. Our current projections have us coming in, our current projections, not these, have us uh currently coming in near budget and we have taken a number of austerity measures and control measures this year to help make sure that that happens. As you remember, some of them we discussed early on. We stopped all locally funded professional development. We limited field trips. We reduced the size and scope of extra instrual support programs that were funded with local dollars. We dissolved three vacated teaching positions when they were open midy year and we have not filled two and a half additional positions that became vacant during the second semester. Uh we're postponing needed repairs and services to our fleet of vehicles and facilities. We're currently holding off on making another $172,500 worth of repairs with our fleet and with our facilities. We have sidelined 11

vehicles. Um, another note, we have we did have to make uh $395,000 worth of repairs this year that were not initially reflected in the budget or on our capital needs list. They've included such big ticket items as replacing the hot water heater at JRo and having to do a significant well repair at Windy Gap Elementary School. But I'll total those unexpected expenses totaled almost $400,000 that were not planned for in our budget. Um we have stopped all non-essential spending on March 31st with the objective of keeping non-personnel expenditures below 800,000 per month for the remainder of the year and that should net us a savings somewhere of 3 to $400,000. Uh we're exploring the possibility of using some of the remaining fund 18 money to offset the overages in school nutrition this year instead of supplementing it with local funds. It's important to remember that the projections we're looking at today are based on trends established by monthly averages and they do not fully recognize the impact of cuts that have been made in the past few months. I think that the data in Ann's benchmarking presentation today paints a fairly accurate picture of our challenges. Franklin County does have a higher than average instructional expenditures, but doesn't invest in non-instructional programs at the same rate as our neighbors. This is evidenced by our rapidly deteriorating facilities and transportation fleet. We have the highest LCI of the divisions in her comparison, which according to the state formula means we have the highest ability to use local dollars toward our public schools. However, we also have the lowest percentage of local government expenditures going toward public schools. As I stated in earlier presentation, we appear to be in a race to the bottom regarding local school funding. So, this is a disconnect that probably deserves some additional attention. Going into FY27,

we know that if all things had stayed the same as they were during FY24, we would be receiving an additional $5 million in state funding. Our current overall budget is a few million dollars less than it was three years ago. We have had to make rapid adjustments to declining revenues over the past few years to the point that we closed two schools, eliminated over 80 positions, postponed full implementation of the salary study that would bring our most tenured and loyal employees to where they should be on our salary scales. We have been reduced by millions of dollars in funding while still dealing with in inflationary pressures, skyrocketing health insurance cost, unfunded and underfunded mandates from the state, everinccreasing cost associated with our large atrisisk student population, and rising capital and capital outlay cost caused by years of funding neglect toward our buildings and transportation fleet. School budgets are notoriously tight, but we are finding that there is now no wrigle room for dealing with unexpected expenses. A single unplanned facility repair can put us into deficit spending for the entire year. We really need a good long-term plan for school funding, and we need some improvements to our financial accounting system that will help us better be better able to track and project the multiple funding streams that go into a school division. Our folks have identified three changes that we would like to see put in place in the near future. First, create a separate account for federal funding. Currently, everything is lumped into one primary account, which makes it very difficult to track. Second, implement a purchase order system. It is difficult to control spending without a standard approval system in place. And third, utilize a program to encumber salaries for the year that can be adjusted as employees come and go. With over 1100 employees, we have near continual turnover going on

and there are sometimes a large variance in salaries when employees are brought in to replace those who have left. I spoke with a retired uh school finance director who now works for a state university who said it would have been incredibly helpful to have had this program when he worked in schools. He has one at the university and he's going to send me an example of what they use there and how it works. In closing, I'd just like to assure everyone that we're doing everything possible to meet our budget projections for the current school year in a way that doesn't diminish the safety and security of our staff or students, and we're doing it in a way that has a small of an impact as possible on instruction. Uh, thank you again for allowing me to speak today. I appreciate your time and assist. I appreciate your time and the assistance of Brian, Corey, and an as we try to get things figured out for the end of the year. I'll be happy to answer any questions and anyone.

Thank you, Dr. Sears. I will open up the floor for questions from supervisors.

What I would like to do at this juncture, if there are no questions, Mr. Carter, I'd like to invite you to the podium if you'd be so kind. Um, we of course, um, as a board, of course, since the deficit last year, we have, you know, Brian and and Corey have been keeping us, you know, up to speed on the progress of the monthly meetings and things that were initially put in the corrective action plan. Um and um some of the reports are not what I would have expected to hear and am very disappointed with. And um so Mr. Carter, uh first of all, I would like for you to clarify because I know that there is ambiguity between the school numbers and the county's numbers. Um and I'd like for you to to bring some clarity. Um because as of last Friday I was hearing that the deficit could be anywhere from $2 to $5 million and you've indicated that it still could go as high as high as $5 million. Can you explain that?

Right. So we're we're going to be back to the discussion. I think two things. One, um as Ann and Dr. Sears have have indicated, we've went through several rounds of refresh numbers. And so I think from us as a a county staff perspective, we've just taken a very conservative approach to the numbers and feel like we would rather be there at this point in time. Um because if you remember at the end of last year, we were also projecting a surplus for the school system and it ended up being a deficit and county staff at the time warned about that. So I think we're we're taking that conservative approach.

Um and as Dr. Dr. Seir said, so as we get through proving the numbers, I think we'll feel more confident and we're just waiting on that. So it sounds like maybe a couple of weeks, that'll be encouraging. Hopefully by the April report, the May April report at the May board meeting, we'll have a little bit more confidence in and having a better projection for you. Um, so so that kind of is why some of the numbers have been different because we we met on Thursday and then we had a new set of numbers Monday morning. And so we're trying to work through all of that as new data is coming in. And so that that's a little bit of a reason for for variation and maybe what you've heard on updates. Um, one thing to keep in mind and this is the same issue that became apparent to us at the end of last fiscal year is that these are projected u numbers based on acrruel accounting

whereas this is not cash basis. So that there is going to be a number and we don't know yet. We we're really hoping to work toward that number at June 30 at the end of the fiscal year where the schools have written checks that they haven't received reimbursement for yet. And so that's going to impact their cash position. So if you remember last year we had to cover $3 million of school spending, but the actual net loss was 1.4, right? Because of the state and federal. Yeah. So we were they did come in roughly 1.6 6 million in July and August and we we worked with the schools and gave them credit for that. So the only real payback plan was the 1.4 million.

And so wanted the board to be aware that right now what we're seeing and I'm hoping that we're correct. I mean trend would hopefully be that yes these numbers are going to come in. Historically we have not seen the influx of cash come in at the end of a fiscal year that the schools are projecting. We're hoping that it is because of the federal government shutdown and there's some state delay, but we're that's why we're being more conservative. We just haven't seen the millions of dollars it would take to come in between now and the end of June to offset this. And so for us, we're conservatively projecting cash. As Ann said, you know, we're at 89% of the county's local transfer. We're transferring roughly $3 million a month,

right? If that continues, uh, and that's a big if, we'll probably know a better picture in April. I do know from Dr. Sears and his staff some additional revenue has come in in April. So, that should help our county cash position. Uh, but right now, at the tune of $3 million a month, I mean, we could very well be owing the school system5 to $6 million to zero out their cash at the end of June. But all of this is contingent on all this state and federal money coming in. And we're really hopeful that those projections we received yesterday are accurate. U we're just in that verification process right now. And so that that just as the two staffs are working together, that's where we hope to be. So, um, on the local funding share, which is, you know, of great concern on this side,

right, uh, of the deis, if you will, um, being that they've spent 89% of the local dollars and knowing that they're clicking through at about four three to$4 million a month, how much money do they have local dollars to get to the end of June? Yeah, I mean, it's 7.2 million as of the end of March. in March at at the clip that Mr. Carter described. I mean, two two months and that's gone. That's okay. At best, may maybe not even quite that. That's my point.

Yes, ma'am. So, so that's what we're looking at right now is just at current pace and that's just our caution. We're certainly not we're certainly hopeful that won't be the case. Um but right now at that pace, yeah, we would be through that cash in basically by the end of May. really halfway through May is what where I'm projecting right now. And then we would have a month and a half beyond that where the county would either have to fund or we'd have to re rely on state or federal money to come in. That right now is our we're really thinking we're going to run out of county cash around the middle of May right now short of significant state and federal money coming into the bank account. But on a cruel basis that's not going to help by June 30.

It there will be some amount regardless and it's case every year and that's that's government. That's nothing specific to the school system county. That's government. And a lot of these funding programs that are reimbursement based, you expend it up front, then you receive the reimbursement. So, I want to be clear that that that's that's standard. Um, but there will be some dollar amount, and that's what we're really hoping to to work with the uh Dr. Sears and his staff on is what do we project that amount will be, and that really depends on the timing of these reimbursements being received in the county's bank account. So, as you and staff continue to work with the schools,

um would you say that you are getting the amount of data and information that you need to be confident of what you're seeing and what your staff are seeing as the county's position? Are are you getting what you need from the schools?

I think we're making progress. Um, I would like to be further along from our um, corrective action plan that was adopted at February board meeting and really discussed at a joint meeting in January. Uh, I think that would make our job easier on these projections. So, we weren't at this point in the fiscal year still kind of fine-tuning the numbers. Um, I've been encouraged by the positive progress over the last week. So, hopefully here in the next couple of weeks, it sounds like we're going to have some renewed effort and in allowing to get that information. right now I think and that's where we're seeing the difference as Ann and Dr. Sears were saying you know we've just got several variations of estimates and numbers and you know I like to I like to prove a number so I want to see support and backup assumptions and justification

that you don't currently have that we don't currently have and so Dr. Sears when do you project that he will have what he needs well I think you know we have been meeting regularly and trying to get those updated and uh Mr. Terry has been helping shore up some of the the numbers and the projections and uh you know we'll continue to work on that and as an said I would hope that by the May meeting we will have numbers that are uh as solid as we can get at that point in the year and correct me the federal allocations federal monies are fairly restricted. Yes.

Correct. So, how can we as a lay board, not on the school board, understand how you're going to roll up um federal revenues against a general deficit situation when they're restricted to federal programs. Most of our federal revenue goes towards salaries. So we have been paying those salaries out of local funds and it will be just a matter of going back and changing that to credit those salaries to the federal funds that were covering them and and putting the local funds back into the local side of the column.

And so I mean obviously I will say I appreciate very much all the work that's going into this. Um I think the bottom line is we've got year two of a deficit. I don't see that going away. Do you Brian? Do you do you see a deficit reoccurring for the second year? I think the latest estimate was a slight deficit in the most positive scenario that we were discussing uh this week. Uh so much better than 2.2 million, less than 1 million um maybe 4 or 500,000, but the latest estimates that we as staff collectively were working on was a slight deficit for the school year.

Yeah, I concur with that. I thought about that on the way here. I think I think we do have variation in our estimates, but I think there's no estimate that's projecting a a surplus. Every estimate is projecting a short.

So, as of tonight, you're projecting 2.2 as of tonight. And Brian, your higher number moving towards the $5 million mark um is going to depend upon these variables over the next 30 to 60 days to see how far over 2.2 we perhaps end up. Um, so we're looking at a two-year deficit school board budget. We all know what that means. Um, and of course my colleagues can say what they need to say. I'm just going to say what I think. Um, we have a big problem here. I am at a loss to understand when when you have a budget. We have a budget. If Brian were overspending our budget, he would know it the month he's doing it. Um, and he would be looking to remediate that. I'm in a loss for a while, two years in a row. You're spending money you don't have and you don't know it. I am at a loss, Dr. Sears, to understand that. And that here we are again with a deficit budget. And it's just and the here's the larger problem. When you run a deficit, we are the ones that have to stand in in the in the gap for the citizens and we have to cover it on on the taxpayers's backs. And if we're running a deficit that especially goes over 2.2 to close to four or five million. I start to get really really worried about the fiscal health of our body with regard to the rating agencies and with regard to how hard we've worked over many many years for our bond rating and we're one point away of a triple bond rating. Every time we have to go hit fund balance or unrestricted monies, it's going to hurt the county as a whole. And it makes me very very angry that the schools are not being good stewards of your money just from the outside looking in and the

reports we get at the cost of the taxpayers and knowing that we're headed down a road of having to write checks for you guys that's going to hurt the county's fiscal position. And I don't know how else to look at it and we're going to have a deficit again. That's what you all are telling us this evening. It's just a matter of what is the number and so I view this as a serious very serious matter and uh we have got to receive it as a serious matter as a board of supervisors. Uh I'll open the floor if my colleagues would like to add anything um that I have said. Mr. Meredith,

I I want to add something cuz I've spent a lot of late nights, 2 or 3:00 in the morning, past couple weeks with this budget and I'm looking at a sheet here and and I'll agree something's got to be do better. But on the other hand, in 2022 2022 23, I'm sorry, school budget was 113 million. That's 19,000 student. It went down to 109 97 98. They have lost $15 million in budget. Went down $2,000 a kid student. So, I'm not covering for what's going on right now. I think there's for improvement, but I'm also looking at this. They're working $15 million less from four years ago. I understand students went down. So, there's questions how's this I it ain't making sense to me. And like I said, I've lost a lot of sleep because I do think we could do a better job funding some things, but I also think we need to be accountable that we don't go over budget. Um, it's tough. I mean, this is a tough thing. And and I I was listening to uh talk about buses and transportation, but I'm looking here at this sheet that you you're going to save 1.4 4 million off transportation cuz it's covering something else that could be fixing our buses by you know I'm not point please please understand that I just think this is a moment moving forward that I've asked for stuff too and I can't get it and all that but I also know that you've had $15 million cut out of your budget in past four years

and I think that's a significant point and we all agree that that's arduous on any board to lose that kind of money but when you have a budget that reflects the reduction and your budget is $15 million short. You don't budget $15 million over because you lost and I and I agree that I did I just said there should be accountability for what's happening.

I mean I know we right now diesel fields kill me right now. I have to adjust with what I do and it's the same thing when you lose this money here but it's to me it's a trickle down effect. I it's it's hurting students and teachers and pair pros and that's right me. Qu was talking about the money spent in Henry County and what they're rec they're way down there, but our teachers are leaving to go make more money. Yeah. So, you got luckily some iss hoping when they'll get a phase three to get to retirement. So, there's a lot of factors going here. Accountability is number one and accountability on both sides

because I I wasn't part of this board and I don't know the justification of this decline. So, I'm not I'm just saying from this day forward when questions are asked, I'd love to see proof. I would love to see straight answers. I' that's what I want and I think the public deserves that. But we also need to look at man, what would happen to the county? I don't know if the county I was looking here, the county budget was at 181 the same year as 113 and county budget on 24 2526 was 183. So, they went up 2 million. Mhm.

And we took 15 men from school. So that's all I'm going to say as we're digging into this. I think there's a lot of hard conversations needs to happen, but also I think we need to be looking both sides of of this conversation. That's all I'm going to say on that right now. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. O'Brien, Madam Chair, I think I can provide some insight uh into that. So I want to be sure that we're all understanding the county has not reduced the school's funding. The reduction of roughly 15 million was almost entirely related to one-time esser funding that was federal stimulus from the co pandemic. Right?

So the school's overall budget has increased when you factor out those one-time monies that were coming in over two or three years. So roughly most of that I think it was about $10 million was probably the federal drop in that. The other bit you're probably right was probably the LCI reset in state funding and ADM. Yeah. Well and ADM. But I want to be I want to make sure we are clear from a transparency standpoint. The board this board previous boards did not reduce the school systems funding by $15 million. That was one time federal stimulus money that basically sunset and so it was removed from the budget um once that once that did happen. That's a very good point. Yeah,

I failed to acknowledge that, Brian. That's a good point. Any other questions, comments from supervisors? Mr. Carter,

it's stunning. I I'm sort of without words. You know, I was a small business owner and I know sometimes we would get lunch during the week. I'm just going to give you this story. And my sister managed the books. And one day I came in and she said, "You're going to have to start packing your lunch because we can't keep buying lunch out. Y'all are going to have to start packing your lunch." Uh I don't know how to correct this. I will say on my term on this board, I've heard ADM from day one and I don't know what you all are doing to address that on a yearly basis. You know, you're going to lose these students every year and and I don't know if you're adjusting your budget to compensate for the loss of state and federal money from this decline of of ADM. Uh, it's just a it's a multi-acceted problem and I feel really uncomfortable throwing the bail out on the taxpayers of Franklin County. Again, we're throwing good money after bad. And that's all I have to say.

Thank you, Mr. Carter. Anyone else? Mr. Mitchell, I'd like uh Dr. Sears, thank you for coming and and I'm glad to see you all and county staff and y'all working together to get through this. Listen, this is a tough talk for me because my you know my my babies are in it. I know. And uh there's capital things on both ends and I I agree with Brian's thing that the county has not since I've been here, we have not cut a dollar. It's it's increased. Now, has it increased to the point? I I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to say that we have grossly underfunded the schools. I do not agree with that for a minute.

Um but do I believe they have needs? I do. I do believe they have needs and and we can sit here and nickel and dime talk about teachers and and that those that information that she provided is is great and and that's a great tool for us looking forward to set a budget for the schools. Um but I'm confident in the work y'all are doing and working together and and uh I think it's going to pay great dividends for us going in the future and we we got to work together to make this make this better. We don't have a choice. Franklin County Public Schools is Franklin County. That's right. and we ha we have to move forward from it. So, it's not I'm not going to wash my hands and throw it up. Uh we can't

we can't and and I I'm hopeful for the future and I believe it'll be positive and I and I I hope that these projections are going to come in next month and I hope we're telling a completely different tale and I hope this talk of a deficit is behind us. Okay, we'll see. Okay. Thank you, Dr. Sears, Brian and thank y'all so much. Mr. Jameson, Dr. series, you was you was talking about a while ago uh going over cuts that y'all were anticipating making. Have you y'all have any idea how much these cuts you're talking about in deficit you going to make up in operational budget, I guess, is what I'm asking.

The the cuts that we've already put in place this year.

Yes, sir. And going forward, too. I mean, we estimate the the stopping all uh non-essential spending will net us somewhere between three or 400,000. Um the other cuts that are in place, uh we expect to get a few hundred,000 out of them. I couldn't put an exact amount on it because the uh field trip, you know, stopping field trips and professional development uh those really fluctuate a lot year to year and and sometimes we make adjustments from one year to the next. But the all the cost projections were based on a monthly average and those expenses were greater at the beginning of the year than they h are at the end of the year. So, you know, we should see le expenses be less than than what those projections are based on the cuts that we've made. And I I do expect we'll have a better handle on that next month when we can look at uh the data from April and see, you know, how we stop the non-essential spending in March. So we should get a handle in April as to how much that saved us and then can project that out for uh for um

So you think you'll have a comparison between the estimated deficit we got? Yes. Plus the revenue you've got coming in to offset it. What is profession professional development? Training training for teachers and for pair professionals and bus drivers. everyone uh you know uh we have professional development days and and have different uh opportunities throughout the year where people go to conferences or or trainings depending on what their job is and what the needs are of that year.

How much expensure are we talking about a yearly ballpark? If I could ask the folks who are here with me, I Sharon or Don, do you know what our annual professional development budget is? What we typically spend on PD? I'm not really comfortable state off the top of my head. I can get that information.

We can send that to to Brian and Mr. Sandy and ask them to distribute it. We can uh find out what we spent last year on professional development and and what we have spent so far this year. And that should give us a a little bit of an idea of what kind of savings we've recognized by by stopping the uh all professional development paid with local funds this year. And we did that back in January as far as the teacher student ratio and uh it was like we're the lowest it sounds like pretty much. Uh, have y'all looked at anything to change that around to reduce some teachers and let that ratio go from from 10 to one to 11 121? Have y'all looked at any kind of savings there?

I mean, we we have been trying to rightsize as our enrollment drops. Um, you know, we eliminated over 81 positions um in the past two years and we're looking at at how we can make some reductions to attrition for next year too. The issue is when your enrollment drops by 200 students, they don't all come from one school and one school one, you know, one school and uh maybe a couple classrooms. They're from 13 different grade levels across 12 different schools. And so when you lose 200 students, you can't just automatically cut, you know, an equivalent number of positions, uh, 20 positions based on that those ratios because it you might lose one in first grade at Boone Meal and two in first grade at Phum and and you know, it's just spread out. So every other year we have been taking a look at that and doing pretty significant reductions but it is difficult to do a reduction every year to offset the enrollment loss. But we have done some pretty significant reductions through attrition and are looking at doing the same thing for next year

and that teacher student ratio does not take into account any aids by strictly teachers. Correct. Strictly teachers. Yes. How many aids do we have in the county ballpark? Um I saw one report on the the superintendent report I think it was 20 maybe 24 number and it is less than that now but I do not have the exact number we can provide that as well when we get back to the office but uh it is less than we had in FY24 because we have eliminated several of those positions through attrition since that year and attrition when they're They're they're retiring. Correct.

Retiring or quit and we don't fill the position. How many positions in attrition do we have right now? Say teachers that we're paying and do you have any kind of handle on the cost of just those that we're carrying on letting them retire out? I'm sorry I don't understand the question. How many teachers positions are right now are are getting close to retirement to retire out and do we know the cost of it? Um I'll check with Greg to see our total number of retirees for this year. Right now we're sitting right around 24. I don't have a cost. They're not all

24 employees who have submitted their intent to retire for next year. Not all teachers though. Thank you doctor number 70% of your budget is going to instruction and I almost applaud your desire to teach The reality is you're not going to be able to full as hard as this is for me to say, you're going to have to come in. It's a hard pill to swallow and say, "I'm going to cut 30 teachers." That's not going to make the budget. We as a board have to agree with that or not agree that because the stuff you're cutting around the edges that doesn't really matter. The big lever you have to pull is teachers. You're going to have to recognize that and pull that lever in the same problem all the time. And again,

yes, I mean that is a difficult conversation. If you remember in January when we were working toward the FY25 budget, we actually recommended some personnel reductions midyear. uh the school board wanted some time to think about those and then we had the joint meeting and the board of supervisors seemed to be opposed to us making personnel cuts at that point in the year as well. So, we did not make those cuts. But you're exactly right when when you're 85% of your budget is employees. You can't do significant reductions without cutting the number of employees. I know. Right. So, so it's not asking us, it's telling us you're you need to tell us that you're going to reduce teachers. I I think unfortunately

that's it.

So, you know, just kind of going back at this 70% more than 70% of their budget is teachers, right? That that's data point one. Secondly, through the benchmarking we did earlier in the year and now you couldn't quite see it as clearly, but we're 100 and to 120 teachers high for our population of 6600 students, right? We have 120 teachers, too many. And so Dr. Sears, he's kind of nibbling around the edges, you know, take out field trips and stuff, but the money, all the money is in the teachers and and he's trying to hang on to the teachers for educational excellence, but he can't do that. He can't hang on to the teachers and meet the budget. It's not it's not possible to do that there. There's you can't cut that money anywhere else. 70 you see here 71 million is teachers, right? That's where the money is. And you can't not if you don't paint the school. Well, you know, if if you don't go on a field trip, that's little money. The big money is in the teachers and and you can't hang on to the teachers and meet this budget number. It's not possible. Well, I would also add to that, Mr. Clement, um, you know, the concern I raised last the concern I raised last time, um, you know, let's say in the perfect world, you know, that the board would pony up $4 million for the comp study. Well, that automatically raises about $2 million more in operating for the next year that they don't even have today.

So, your point about the teachers is spot on. I mean, you can't keep doing what you're doing and expect to stay in budget. Madam Chair, yes. I'm sorry, Mr. Tatum.

That's okay. I don't have a so much of a question as a comment. I think it's depressing when we all sit here and we look at these numbers and we're all looking and we're seeing the glass half full at best. But let's take another look at it and and try to look at it is how can we fix this problem instead of saying, "Oh, we're spending too much money. We're losing too many kids. What are we doing to get our enrollment back up?" And I know you have implemented a lot of different programs, but apparently they're not having the desired effect. But I wanted to bring one thing to your attention that was brought to my attention a few weeks back from a mother of a first grader here in the county. And she showed me uh and she showed me a writing assignment that her first grade child had uh and it had a very inappropriate title. And I'll be I have it on my phone. I'll be happy to show it to you. but she's talking about pulling her child out of public school because of not a uh you know this inappropriate curriculum. Um a suggestion uh from me to you having the concerns of our public schools not losing any more children if we can help it is y'all might want to go back and review some of this our curriculum that we're using and make sure that it it's it's appropriate. And she showed it. I mean, like I said, I'd be happy to show you the picture and and the title of it, in my opinion, is inappropriate, but I I begged her and I think I convinced her to rather than pulling her kids out, show up and speak to you and and and and relay her concerns rather than just saying, "I quit. I'm done and moving on." But that's what a lot of parents are seeing. They're they're they're getting these assignments that that, you know, it's not so much I think our public schools are supposed to teach our children how to think, not teaching our kids what to think. And I think that's

what our our parents are are seeing this curriculum come in and and and that's kind of how they feel now. Perception is everything. And that's kind of the perception they're getting. So my recommendation is you all take a a step back and look and see for yourself that what can we do to make these parents not want to just jump ship make these parents want to stay here with Franklin County and you know taking a look at the curriculum u might be a good first I won't say first step because I think you've already taken those steps but it might be a good next step

and uh you know she uh was very upset. I I think we may have calmed that down and hopefully she's going to come and and speak to you or or someone else with your staff, but uh you know, there's a lot of parents in that boat. I mean, there there's a reason they're pulling out of public schools and uh we've got to we've got to fix that or these numbers are just going to keep getting worse every year.

Yeah. The I mean, our homeschool numbers have actually declined a little over the last few years. Um, you know, I think the county as a whole is losing population and the people who are moving in are of retirement age and not bring necessarily bringing families into the county. So, it's a larger community issue. But, but I certainly take your point and we we often work with parents if they don't like a particular assignment to give them an alternative, but if it's wholly inappropriate, we certainly want to take a look at that and and try to work with the teacher on how to structure assignments differently. So, if you could if you want to share that with us or have the parent call us, we'll be happy to look into it and and see specifically what what her what the issue was with that. Okay. Thank you.

Okay, gentlemen. Um, I am going to have to call time at this point. Um, first of all, Dr. Sears and Ann, thank you so very much. Um, Brian, thank you. We know you all are hard at work numerous times a week with meetings. Keep it up. Let's have a better report next month. uh and we will look forward to that. So, thank you for being with us. Thank

Okay. Um gentlemen, we need to take care of one more order of business um before we um Oh, I I guess before we take a break before the 6 p.m. and we're going to be deferring several things to the 6 pm uh meeting agenda. Uh, but what we need to do right now is move on to approval of the fiscal year 2627 tax rates. Mr. Sandy.

Yes, Madam Chair. Um, so agenda item, you you probably noticed um that we're asking for the adoption of the tax rates uh for the county at this time. We are not requesting uh adoption of the budget because of uh some of the things we've just talked about, but also we still don't have a state budget and so there's still a lot of questions out there um relative to the the amount of funding and where that funding will go from the state level. However, um we we do need to to set the tax rates in order to uh get the the appropriate bills out and be able to move forward in that regard. And so um you know what we have up on the screen is the the various tax rates that have been advertised previously. Of course the current tax rate for real estate is is 43 cents. There was a proposed uh advertisement a proposed rate of 50 and as we've discussed before the board can can adopt that number or something less but but not higher than that based on the advertisement that was done. And uh the other item would be the meals tax. Uh as proposed in my budget, that was a 2% increase in the meal meals tax. So to go from 4% to 6% uh on the meals tax. So those would be two separate actions that that we would be requesting um this board consider uh today as far as the tax rates go. And I'll just say on the screen that you have in front of you, uh two through five, those rates are what they are today. Those rates are not proposed to change. It's it's really just number one that's proposed to change and then the meals tax rate.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Sandy. And as you said to reiterate, these were duly advertised according to state code. Um and we're at this juncture. Um and I would do recommend to the board that uh we certainly need to set the tax rate so uh the commissioner can get the tax bills out in a timely manner. Uh but I do highly recommend that we defer budget adoption until such time as we have better numbers uh maybe some of the school um information that may come back to us in May. Uh so the first thing that I'm going to ask for um is a motion or your inclination um on uh setting the real estate tax rate. Um it's been proposed to set it at 50 cents which represents a 7 cent increase. Um and uh and of course with that with this motion we would deal with the um the proposed change in real estate but then maintaining the balance of the rates as shown um on the screen. So, I'm going to open up the floor to you gentlemen to find what your what your desires are and if someone would be willing to make a motion to express getting this thing on the table and get it seconded.

Madam Chair, I'll go ahead and break the ice on this. Um,

like I said, I've I've had a lot of sleepless nights and thinking about this because whatever decisions we make affect everybody in this county. It affects us. We live here. And doing research, I noticed that the last time the tax rate was at 43 cents was 1984. Also, I got curious one night and I got looking at and I didn't realize this. I looked at 12 random properties from the last assessment when it dropped. Seven out of those 12 were paying less taxes now than in 2020. And fortunately, I was one. and I didn't realize it was $90, but I'm paying $90 less. So, in doing more research, I think it was about 50/50, which has a lot to do with the assessment, and we'll talk about that a different day.

So, with that in mind, I started looking three years out because of what we decide today, I think should cover us for a while. I know we have another reassessment coming up which will determine that. And hopefully we got some houses being built that's going to help, you know, bring in more revenue. It's what it's about. So, in doing that, we we're flatlined and we've been flatlined and it's hard to grow uh with anything that same thing as us as we work out there in the real world. We we like a co-ays and we like this and that and we have to adjust and all that. Also, I was looking at safety apparatus and ask some questions and just replacing fire engines and ambulletes and um landfield equipment and sheriff's offices. We're looking at 2.2 to 2.8 million a year to keep those services up. And I think the citizens love knowing if they make a phone call, fire trucks going to show up in ambulance. And I I I do have considered kicking things down the road, but all it does is create a bigger bill next year because we got more equipment, more capital improvement. So, with that all in mind, what I've came up with, I know Mr. Sandy and his budget, and I know they did not request all the positions, and they've made some cuts going into it, was three cents. Also, I would like to see a penny dedicated and I don't I don't know if it's legal or not. We'll figure a way out going towards public safety equipment so we know that we have the equipment to serve our citizens. So, what I would present is raising it 4 cents to 47 cents and that is my reason why and I think that will cover us for a while. But it is hard to do anything when we're not keeping up with

inflation. And I hate doing this. Uh it affects us all. But you know, we got to provide services for our citizens and we have certain things we have to do. We need to have that extra revenue to move forward. So I'll leave it there and and anybody has other I'll listen and we'll go from there. So are you making a motion, Mr. Meredith? I I don't know if you want to discuss it more before I make a motion. Is there any further discuss? I would, you know, I would rather if there's more discussion. Okay. I think this is a good chance we can make before we make a motion. That's I'm just stating where I'm at and the reasons why. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just didn't want to cut you off if you were wanting to make a motion.

I I would rather get input from everybody because this is a very serious thing we're looking at here. Yes. Thank you. All right. comments, questions, Mr. Carter. Yeah. Just so you I'm clear, you're saying four cents, but you want to dedicate one penny of that to equipment, correct?

Yes. Uh apparatus, amidst, sheriff's vehicles, you know, just um unfortunately, I don't know if anybody's seen the budget, we got as an apparatus $350,000. And um I hopefully um Mr. Carter was nice enough saying, but you know, I just looked at what we need to replace next year and it's close to $2 million. I mean, I want to see it ain't going to help, but if we have that dedicated line of revenue, I think would help us on that rotations. So, yes, sir. That's what I was proposing. Anything more any other feedback for Mr. Meredith? Mr. I agree with a lot of Mike's points and my my only change would be uh I would have different ideas on where that extra penny goes. Okay.

Okay. I would support Mike's motion. Okay. With um with us discussing that extra penny at a further work work session. I'd like to see uh school buses. Okay. So, would it be fair enough to say that you support uh a 4 cent increase with the dedication? how we break down that 4 cent increase to occur during our oncoming upcoming budget discussions. I seeing as we're not we're not voting on a budget tonight, I would like to leave all those talks to later. I don't want anything earmarked. How are you with that, Mr. Mayor?

And and I'm fine and and Mr. uh Supervisor Mitchell, thank you for mentioning because I was including my school buses with the police car because those are things that's safety issues and and school bus safety for our kids. So, I have no problem for me to be said. I agree with what Mike's saying. um these needs are there and we've kept it flat um with these talks about where to go with that before we before we vote on a budget.

Okay. So, we've got two supervisors so far on informal basis supporting a 4 cent increase. Um so, we can do this a couple ways. Um I can go down the desk, you can express your desires or we can move straight to a motion if somebody's ready to make that motion which will it's eventually Mr. Carter.

Yeah. Before we do that, I have a question for Brian Carter. I think on the budget presentation you had a chart and you showed uh say a a house that was worth approximately maybe it was 230,000 what 3 cent would mean and what 4 cent would mean. Could you pull that up or give us an idea of what a 4 cent tax increase would mean to the average home? Mr. Carter, uh, let me flip to it. I cannot pull it up on the screen very easily. No, no, no. You're fine. You're fine.

Um, so I can do a three cent. We'd have to recalculate on four cents. Um, I could probably do some quick math, but on 3 cents on an assessed value of $350,000 on a home assessed value, uh, that increase would be $105 a year on three cents. So divide that by three, $130, $135 a year roughly round, really round math on four cents. Okay,

it's 140. Yeah. So, if you move it up to even 500,000, it's about $150 a year increase um month. And based upon that $350,000 home, uh with that $105 annual increase, that's about $8.75 a month. Correct. Correct. Going three cents. Yes, ma'am. That's based on 3 cents. 4 cents would do the math. 140ID by 12. And I think it's important to note that the extra penny that Mike and I are talking about is to set toward capital, which has been behind since I've been here. Clearly, it it that penny is for capital improvements both on the county and the school side. That's how I feel about it.

Okay. Very good. Does anybody else want to volunteer your position or do you want to run it to a motion? Okay. Um, I will ask for a motion. Madam Chair, I like to make a motion. Thank you. I make a motion to approve a real estate tax rate of 47 cents and to approve the other unchanged tax levies as listed below. Thank you. Is there a second to that motion? Second. Thank you, Mr. Quinn. Um, I'm going to on the second ask if there's any further discussion. Mr. Jameson,

the one cent we're talking about and Mike has started talking about are we still holding off that is going to fall under the budget in later discussion? Yes. Yeah. Thank you. But the rate that we're setting is going to be the rate, but what we do and how we allocate that increase um is yet to be formally determined by this board. Thank you. Okay. So, we have a motion on the floor and a second um based upon uh an increase of uh 4 cents make bringing the real estate tax rate to a total of 47 cents. Madame Clerk, if you would do a roll call vote, please. Supervisor Mitchell? Yes. Supervisor Meredith? Yes. Supervisor Jameson? Yes. Supervisor Carter?

Yes. Supervisor Tatum? No. Supervisor Quinn? Yes. And Chair Smith? No. Okay. Um, so we have the tax rate set. We'll move on to the sales tax. Meals tax,

excuse me, meals tax. I've been hearing so many taxes tonight. Um, let's move on to the meals tax. um mills tax rate that the uh county administrator has proposed to be raised from 4% to 6%. Um and um so I'll open up the floor for discussion on the six cent proposal. Yes, Mr. Mr. Carter,

I'll go first. Uh I think Emil's tax is regressive. I think it hurts um single parent families. Uh I don't like taxing food and I will not support a meals tax. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? I'm sorry. I agree with Mike. Okay. Okay. Agree with Mike. All right. Support it. So, Mr. Jamson and Mr. Carter are not in support of raising it to 6%. Anybody else that would like to volunteer comments or position? My comment to that would be the town, the majority of your restaurants in the county are in the town. They're already at 6 cent. They are.

And uh I I take my family out to eat all the time, even in Rocky Mount. And uh that that drive-through line at Bojangles, I haven't seen it cut back at all. And if Deborah Russell were still sitting here, I would tell her that. Yeah. Uh for us to be two cent below the town's rate when the majority of the restaurants are already in the town is just that's a it's just bad business. Okay. All right. Anybody else or would someone like to propose a motion? You find a paper. I'll make a motion. You're going to make a motion?

No. I I got paper. I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion. improve mills tax uh rate of 6%. Okay. Is there a second to that motion? Second. Thank you, Mr. Mitchell. Madame Clerk, if you'd be so kind. Supervisor Mitchell? Yes. Supervisor Meredith? Yes. Supervisor Carter? No. Supervisor Jameson? No. Supervisor Quinn? Yes. Supervisor Tatum? No. Supervis or Chair Smith? No. So, the meals tax fails by a vote of I believe four to three. Is that correct? That's correct.

Okay. Very good. All right. Um I appreciate your consideration um gentlemen on these most difficult decisions. Um uh it's difficult. I see arguments for and against all of these things. Um and I appreciate you bringing your best thoughts. Um yes, Mr. Tatum. Madam Chair, before we get too far away from the tax rates, you know, we just set the property rate, but all the other personal property rates and everything stay the same, but there's one difference in the way we collect our uh taxes. We collect real estate twice a year. So, it makes it a little easier so that people get a tax bill in June than again in December. So, it and you know, in the past, we used to get one big tax bill right before Christmas. Uh, I think we need to look at if if possible look to feasibility and look at at making it so that the others our personal property taxes are offered the same way. Right now, the only thing we're collecting twice a year is real estate. We're still hitting it people up with a huge personal property rate bill right before Christmas. It's sort of like being uh Scrooge. You know, the way reason it was set up that way years ago, people got a Christmas bonus and then the county says, "Give it here." Well, I think, you know, with prices continually going up, values of property and vehicles and everything keeps going through the roof, you know, let's make it as easy as we can for people to pay. Instead of one big bill right before Christmas in December, let's let's collect it half of it in June, half of it in December, like we're we're doing with our real estate. Um, you know, inflation is inevitable, cost goes up, but by George, we can make it easier on our citizens. We, you know, give them a better pay plan than than give it all to us right before

Christmas. That just to me is inconsiderate.

Thank you, Mr. Tatum. Thank you very much for those thoughts. Um, okay. So, we've got those matters disposed of, and I appreciate again your time and consideration. Um, it is 5:53. What I'm going to propose is that we take a 10-minute break, um, grab something quick to eat, and we will, um, come back a little after 6. Uh we'll have our public hearings um that are scheduled. Uh we will have our public comment as scheduled. We still have reports of the county administrator, county attorney, and Mr. Carter, your monthly finance report. Uh we'll have all of those per the amended agenda. Um and we will deal with our close session at the end of the evening. So if you all is that if that is is that okay with everybody? All right. So, we're going to take a quick break to grab something to eat real quick.

Everybody, it's it's really good to see you all this this evening being here with us and uh we appreciate it very much. I apologize for our lateness. We had a long afternoon in our opening meeting and uh we took a break um to grab some dinner real quick before we've got the rest of our evening ahead of us. So, we appreciate your patience um and for the delay in starting our meeting. Excuse me. We'll get immediately into our public hearing. Um we have, I believe, three this evening. I would ask Miss Cooper if she would come up and um introduce the first public hearing for owner Robert Nicole Rakes um for 5199 Scrugs Road in Gills Creek uh to allow for a short-term rental.

Miss Cooper. Yes. Thank you. Um Chairwoman Smith, members of the board. Yes, we're here to hear a special use permit um for a short-term rental. Just to give you some brief background, this is the only dwelling on the property that will be used for a short-term rental. It's on a statemaintained road. It has ample parking. It'll be provided u well and sewer. And the last time the septic system was pumped out was February 12th of 2026. The closest residence is about 307 ft. And there is a detached garage on an adjoining property that is 37.4. four. According to the records, this is a manufactured home. It was uh constructed in ' 84. It has three bedrooms, two baths, a total living area of 1,730 square ft. Um the Virginia Department of Health issued a permit in 1985 for a three-bedroom, so the maximum adults will be six. Mr. and Mrs. RAS um have stated that they're going to be their property managers and they also have uh Rob and Michelle Underwood that's going to help them. Staff has received before the planning commission's public hearing four calls inquiring about the application, one walk-in that was an inquiry, four letters of opposition, and one letter of support. This is your conceptual plan, your vicinity map, your aerial, your um zoning map, and your um future land use, which is low density residential. Here's some pictures of the property. That's the detached garage, the backyard where the septic is. So, this proposed short-term rental, it consists of one acre. I told you how far the closest house was to it. The surrounding

properties are similar in lot size, some are larger. Um, basically there's ample parking in the driveway. The traffic on Scrug's Road is busy. However, I do not think that this short-term rental would generate any more than a regular single family dwelling with full-time residents. I think the noise would also be similar as a residential um single family home. The comprehensive plan has this as low density residential county. You know that is suburban pattern patterns of development that consists of single family dwellings on variety of lot size. We do know that the increase in tourism around the lake. There is a need for accommodations for guests and I think that STRs will um be uh STRs will increase in this future land use designation. Um planning commission concluded that there were minimal impacts to the surrounding area. The character of the A1 district would not change and the STR would be in harmony with the purpose and the intent of this chapter and the uses permitted in the A1 district. So, your planning commission did hold their public hearing. They did recommend approval with five conditions. The first one being that this would be the only dwelling that would have the short-term rental that they have to apply to all of the regulations in the county code and the zoning ordinance. They have to give a proof of liability insurance. The owner will have to register the short-term rental, have it inspected, and the planning department already has the name and the phone number of who's going to be managing the property, and it will be sent to the um adjoining properties. I know that was kind of quick, but if you have any questions, I would be glad to answer them. Thank you, Lisa. Uh any of the supervisors have

questions? Does the applicant or Mr. Miss Rakes here. Do they wish to speak? Would you? Yes, sir. Mr. Rex, you're w you're more than welcome to to share your thoughts, comments with us. Hello. Hi.

Uh I've frequented Smith Mountain Lake for about 20 25 years, mainly bass fish when she lets me. And we uh you know, as as time went, it seemed like, you know, getting a rental got harder and harder. you know, if you didn't book it in time, there was limited. And so I told her, uh, it'd be a good idea, you know, to get us a place and that way I can have somewhere to stay. So that was our main reason for doing it initially. And so we're down here a fair amount, but as time went, you know, we got talking about how hard it is to find a place and we thought about maybe doing it, you know, to offset and uh the cost and everything and to meet a need in the area, you know,

and uh so that's why we're here. Uh we have one basic neighbor close by. Uh I know the gentleman just from meeting him through the thing. Uh he's not wrote anything, but he's expressed to me he has no problem, you know, with it. Uh and it's it's really it's not in a subdivision. It's not, you know, I really don't think it would impact anything. As she said, the traffic actually with us not living there, you know, it's going to rent periodically. So it's actually going to be empty a lot more than it's, you know, has somebody in it anyway. So the traffic to me would be even less than if we moved down there. You know what I mean? Yeah. So do the supervisors have questions for Mr. Rakes?

Okay, Mr. Rex, thank you so much. We appreciate you being available. Okay, I will um officially open the public hearing on this special use permit request. Madame Clerk, do we have anyone signed up? George KS. Good evening, Mr. KS. If you if you would state your name and address for the record, please. Sir, I have a question first. I actually came to speak on another matter. Am I allowed to speak on this matter and the other matter later this evening? The public hearing is is just gerine to this special use permit. Correct. And this is only to this special use permit. But if I speak on this special use permit, am I allowed to speak at the general comment session later? Yes, sir. Great. Well, I rise in support of this application. Okay.

Um I'm sure he's surprised that I'm doing that. I own a couple of rentals myself. Um, and so when I saw that the request was on there, I wanted to speak to the board first to say thank you for granting a special use permit and the other ones that I'm able to operate in Franklin County. Um, I believe that tourism can add a huge amount of money to the economy of Franklin County. In fact, in Bedford County, where um they are much more friendly to short-term rentals than we are here in Franklin County, uh I would note that we have they have a 41 cent tax rate and we just increased ours by about 10% to 47 cents. Just on our rentals alone last year, we paid uh the uh occupancy tax of about $24,000 to the county. And the county is going to benefit from the tax revenue that the rates will bring to our county. And I would like to encourage the board to approve their application and to make the process easier for other folks to do the same thing here in Franklin County.

Sir, uh, did you get uh, Samantha, did we get name and address? I beg your pardon. My name is No, I I just don't remember if you did or George KS and I'm a farmer here in Franklin County at 680 Old Salem School Road. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else signed up? Madame clerk, no one else has signed up. Okay. Uh I will close the public hearing at this juncture um and I will open up the floor um to supervisors. Mr. Tatum, I'm prepared to make a motion if you're ready.

Yes, I am. Thank you. Madam Chair, I find that the use will not uh be a substantial substantial detriment to adjacent properties that the character of the zoning district will not be changed thereby as that such use will be in harmony with the uses permitted by right in zoning in the zoning district and with the public health, safety, and general welfare to the community. Therefore, I move to recommend approval of the applicant's request for a special use permit to allow for short-term rentals uh of this dwelling on the property with five conditions as recommended by the planning commission. Thank you, Mr. Tatum. Is there a second? Second. Second. Uh Mr. Quinn, thank you. All those and we'll do a roll call vote, I guess. Um Clark, yes,

if you would please. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Meredith, yes. Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes. And Chair Smith, yes. And so this passes uh unanimously. Congratulations, Mr. Rikes. Uh we're wish you best of luck. Um the next item on our agenda is another special use permit. Um the applicant is Tom Harvey, Owner's Dominion Land LLC, uh at the intersection of Old Franklin Turnpike Route 40 and Novelty Route 946. Miss Cooper.

Yes. Um the purpose of this special use permit is to allow for a storage boat, recreational vehicle, and recreational trailer. Um the property um was subdivided to approximately 2.947 acres. Um the property is unressed. It is A1. It does have frontage on Old Franklin Turnpike and Novelty Road. Um it can the area consists of residential dwelling, farmland and properties um zone B2 general business just down the road. Um a survey was done back in 2005 and it subdivided in this 68 parcel into 12 lots. Um the proposed self storage facility will consist of 14 storage buildings that are 5 by13 and six storage buildings 40 by13 with a gravel parking lot. The access will be off of Novelty Road. There is some proposed uh landscaping on Novelty Road. The facility will not have an office. It will not have management on site and there is no well on the property. Um staff received three phone calls inquiring about the application along with one walk-in. Seven letters in opposition of petition to deny the application was also submitted. At the planning commission's public hearing, seven citizens spoke in opposition of the petition. This is the uh conceptual plan that was done for the um storage facility.

Lisa, could you go back to the last slide just for a second? Yes. Sorry. So, so the last sentence you you said seven citizens spoke in opposition to the petition. So, the petition was against this application, right? So, they spoke in opposition to the So, they're supporting this application. No, they're against this application. Oh, they're in opposition of this application. I might have I've wrote it wrong, but at the planning commission, seven people they spoke in favor of the of the petition. Okay. The petition. Yep. Thank you.

Sorry. Um this is the conceptual plan that was given um in during the application. You see the entrance on Novelty Road and the additional landscaping. The land is mostly forest. This is your vicinity map. It's located in Union Hall. Um this is your aerial showing that it's covered with forest or trees. Um this is your zoning map. This is your future land use map. This happens to be rural area county. So, um the entrance, like I said, is on Novelty Road. It um is a safer entrance than off of um Route 40. Um this is a typical you this typical use would generate um more traffic. Um the comprehensive plan is rural areas as described to um protect the rural aesthetic of the county and protect the ability to actively farm. Rural residential is also found in this designation also usually on larger lots and sometimes supports farming. Boat storage boat and recreational storage facilities would not usually be one of the primary land uses that you would find in this designation. This use you would you usually normally find in one of your DGAs or a rural village. Um character guidelines of the comprehensive plan are to protect the farmland primary farmland and important uh for farmland uh to be preserved um as much as possible and keep the rural character. The comprehensive plan would not support this type of use. Um the planning commission um made a recommendation for denial of the special use permit because the use will be substantially detrimental to the adjacent properties. that the character of the zoning

district would be changed and the special use permit would not be in harmony with the purpose and intent of the county code and the use permitted by right in the zoning district and with the public health safety public health safety and general welfare of the community. So basically uh the planning commission made a recommendation for denial for this application and the um Mr. Harvey is here and his engineer. Thank you, Mr. and I'd be glad to answer any questions. Yeah. Do the supervisors have any questions for Miss Cooper while she's at the podium?

Okay. Is the applicant you say Mr. Harvey is with us? He is and his engineer um Mr. Lums. you're welcome to come and and address the board. Um, we would welcome that if you'd like to come forward.

Good evening, gentlemen. If you'd state your name and addresses for the record, please. Yeah. Hi. Um, my name is Tom Harvey. I'm at 60 Shoreline Circle in Penhook. Okay. Um, this is Andrew Lumston with Lumston Engineering. Um, so basically I I currently have the property under contract um pending a special use permit. Oh, okay.

Um, the idea behind the storage is not just general boat and RV storage, but it's covered covered covered storage, I'm sorry, covered or enclosed. Um, there's definitely a shortage of it. Uh, certainly on that side of the lake. Um I live on that side and and know for a fact that you know there's plenty of outdoor storage but nothing covered. You know folks that want to keep their RVs and boats um protected um you know if they can't keep them at their at their own residence. Um so that was the idea behind this and um you know it it it really came from a need that I see for for the community on that end of the lake. Okay.

Um and Andrew's, you know, just here from the engineering standpoint. Sure. Did you have anything you'd like to add, Mr. Lumpson?

Um I I guess while I have the microphone, um I I will say that the overall intent of how we laid out the the site um was trying to be mindful to the folks on Novelty Road. Um so with this being a 3 acre parcel, we were trying to keep as much of it um undisturbed and vegetated as possible. So, um, as we have it laid out, um, roughly one acre would be disturbed and we were keeping that disturbance and, um, the method of basically how it's laid out is is in a linear fashion from north to south or south to north. Um that way as you're traveling along Novelty Road, the majority of the site you're seeing just existing vegetation, so there's very little uh viewshed disturbance is the best way to put it. Um but beyond that, I'm here for any questions that you'all might have.

Okay. Thank you all. Um do any of the supervisors have questions for the applicant or the engineer? Okay. Well, gentlemen, we appreciate you being here. Um and uh we'll just await final disposition from the board. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um I will formally open the public hearing on this special use permit. Madame clerk, do we have anyone signed up? Amy Robertson Dorton. Good evening. Good evening. If you'd state your name and address for the record, please. Sure. My name is Amy Robertson Dorton. I currently reside in Rowan, but I'm here on behalf of my parents who reside at 3434 Novelty Road. Thank you. Which is directly across from what we call the ballpark.

Thank you. Uh, pardon me as I read. It's the only way I can be brief and respectful of your time. Um, our family chose this area zoned residential over 40 years ago. I was raised here where it has been a safe place to live, walk, ride bikes, and play outside. I want to be clear that I support local businesses and economic growth. In fact, our grandmother sold many acres in the New Union Hall district prior to her passing for this purpose. However, zoning exists for a reason, to ensure that commercial activity is located where it fits best and does not negatively impact residential communities. Allowing commercial special use permits in this neighborhood would introduce elements that simply do not belong in a residential setting. Increased traffic, work trucks, deliveries, commercial lighting, outdoor storage that changes the visual character of a neighborhood. Beyond the immediate impacts, approving this request would also set a precedent. Once commercial special use permits are allowed here, it becomes much harder to deny similar request in the future. Over time, that could slowly transform a neighborhood designed for families into a patchwork of commercial uses. Most importantly, this is a community with many small children, 11, 15, something like that. Um, and safety and neighborhood character should remain the priority in a residential zone. If my research is accurate, Route 40 carries an estimate of 4 to 8,000 vehicles per day, while novelty road carries significantly lower uh lower volumes. This imbalance, combined with high travel speeds, creates challenging and potentially unsafe gap acceptance conditions for drivers entering or crossing Route 40. My favorite childhood dog, Max, was a casualty of this

intersection, unfortunately, as well as many few a few motorists over the years. In fact, I believe there's a current study or a study that's been funded in progress on the very next intersection, which is Morgan's Fork Road, where many of these vehicles could be heading from this proposed facility. The presence of larger vehicles, including RVs and boat trailers, common to the area significantly increases risk at this intersection. These vehicles require substantially more time to accelerate and clear Route 40, increasing exposure to high-speed traffic and reducing the margin for safe gap acceptance. For these reasons, I respectfully ask you to protect the intent of residential zoning and deny commercial special use permits in this neighborhood. Thank you so much for your time and consideration for our families and neighborhood.

Thank you very much. There's no one else signed up. Else signed up. Okay. Thank you. Uh, so I will close this public hearing uh and I will open the floor for comments, questions or concerns uh from the supervisors. Mr. Quinn,

I guess I'll start it off. So, I'm a huge supporter of small businesses, both those businesses that are already in the county as well as new businesses wanting to come to the county. However, this applicant and this location is in A1. It's not in a business district. And so as such it requires the SUP that is now in front of us. And an SUP is really a zoning variance. And as such with the zoning variance, I have to give heavy weight to the people that are involved with this, the neighbors that are involved. And in this case, we have one person supporting it and many, many people opposing it. I think the petition was upwards of a hundred people. I'm not sure where they found 100 people, but a 100 people signed the petition. And so, uh, I can't support this SUP for those reasons.

Thank you, Mr. Quinn. Anyone else wish to speak to this? Mr. Chair, there was a lady that stood up. Yes, sir. I had signed up to speak. What is your name, ma'am? Ma'am Landers. Um, your name is under public comment. Oh, okay. So, I think you signed up under public comment, not for this public hearing. Okay. That's my error. I'm not familiar with doing this. No, that's okay. Did you mean to sign up for this public hearing?

Okay. I'm going to make an allowance for that because I understand the confusion. Um, so if you'll remove her name, Madame Clerk, from the uh public uh comment section and ma'am, please come forward. We would uh certainly welcome your comments on this public hearing. So, I'm going to um open reopen this public hearing for purposes of hearing from this young lady. Oh, thank you for that. If you would state your name and address, please. My name is Pam Flanders. I also live on Novel Road 3540. Thank you. Um and I have a written statement so I don't stumble all over. You're fine. You're fine.

Um uh good evening. My name is Pam Flanders and I reside directly across the street from the proposed storage facility. Having lived there for more than 20 years, I stand with my neighbors and the other more than 100 people who signed the petition, keep Novelty Road rural. Like them, I'm not opposed to growth, but growth according to the comprehensive plan for our village. A1 residential uses are sparse single unit dwellings primarily located to serve farm owners and their families. Even if future zoning resulted in an A2 designation with low density residential of a rural nature and certain agricultural and uh civic culture uses, the district would still remain an agriculture uh would remain an agricultural character and be less uh dense and residential. In the transmitt of planning commission action that was dated April 10th, 2026, it was noted that B2 general business properties were just down the road from the property being considered. I would like to clarify that this district is point4 or almost 1 half mile down the road. Additionally, per the comprehensive plan of the county, Pinhook is designated as a village but not one of the county's three designated growth areas. In closing, it is my hope that the board of supervisors, excuse me, would choose to honor the recommendation of the planning commission to deny the special use permit to construct a commercial storage facility at the proposed location and the parcel number and the track number in the Union Hall election district. as they determine the use will be a substantial detriment to adjacent properties, that the character of the zoning district will be changed thereby, and that such special use permit will not be in harmony with the purpose and intent of the county code, the uses permitted by right in the zoning

district, and with the public health, safety, and general welfare to the community. Uh last time with the planning commission, my husband spoke. he could not be here tonight to speak because he's uh a polling worker uh at one of the election sites. Uh otherwise he would most definitely be here. Uh and thank finally I just like to say thank you. Thank you to all of you who serve on this board and then also the planning commission and I stand here and for the sake of my grandchildren who live right there near us and all the other young families. I'm probably the senior person now since grandma passed away. Um, so I speak on behalf of these beautiful young families. Thank you.

Well, you are very kind. Thank you so much. Okay, I'm going to close this public hearing and I appreciate uh the indulgence of this board. Um, I will reopen the floor for discussion from supervisors on this special use permit application. Um, so we'll have discussion questions andor uh a motion. So, what is your desire? I'll make a motion if there

I find that such use will be of substantial detriment to adjacent properties that the character of the zoning district will be changed thereby and that such use will not be in harmony with the purpose and intent of the uses permitted by right in the zoning district and with the public health safety and general welfare to the community. Therefore, I move to recommend denial of applicants request for storage boat, recreational vehicle, and recreational trailer. I'll second. Thank you, Mr. Meredith. Um, on the second, is there any further discussion? I would just say, Madam Chair, remember where Supervisor Quinn is making a denial?

That's a good point. Yes. To make sure I know we've had this confusion in the past. what your yes and your no means. If you vote yes if you vote yes, you are agreeing with Supervisor Quinn's denial of this application. Point well taken. Thank you, Mr. Mitchell. We We've been hung up on that in the past. It can get a little confusing at times. Okay, so we have a motion and a second for denial of the application. All those in favor, and we'll do so with a roll call vote. Madam Clerk, Supervisor Mitchell, yes. Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Meredith, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. And Chair Smith,

yes. So, uh, per the vote, this application has been denied. Okay, we're going to move on to the next item on the agenda, which is route 11:05, Highland Lake partial abandonment. Miss Cooper.

Yes, ma'am. This is our last um public hearing. It's a little different. We haven't had an abandonment in front of y'all probably since 2016. Um, so it's a little different, but you have to have a public hearing because this unimproved service road is um dedicated to the public. So to have it removed, it has to come through you all. It's approximately 2.48 acres um to be abandoned. and I'll show you a map that'll help you better, but um county staff has been working with Dell and Judith Weber to abandon this portion of this unimproved uh service area off of Highland Lake Road. It was um determined that the entire unimproved service road could not be abandoned. We found an old plat that so showed some drain fields. So, um the drain fields can be accessed from Highland Road, but we wanted to keep um part of this service road still open just in case even though it's unimproved, it's wooded, you would have to make a path to get there. Um staff didn't feel like that you could abandon all of it. So we a portion of this unmba uh this undeveloped service road was abandoned in March of 2016 by you the board of supervisors by ordinance. Um the Webers are actually the owner of both of the properties. The portion that has been abandoned and the portion that we're requesting. Um like I said, we're not going to we're not requesting to abandon all of it. Um, and they're only requesting the southern part of it, and I'll show you that on a map. The northern part of it would still have access to um, possible drain fields on

lot nine of 2014 Highland Road. Um, this is a map that was in your packet. So, if you see, um, this is the part that was abandoned in 2016. And you can see the Webers own this property now and they also own this one. So what they're requesting is this is a 50-foot rightaway. So it would be 25 ft on the southern side would become part of their property. This service road connects to Highland Lake Road. So this portion would stay the same as a 50-foot rideway. And then this portion would also stay open as part of the surface the service road to access the drain fields that possibly some of them could be on this property. This is just the map. I know it's hard for the audience to see and it may be hard for you all to see, but this is what we found. We found lot nine and we found proposed drain fields of some of the lots in this subdivision. So, we know that they could have access right here, but in case it was blocked, some type of path could be put in to get back to them. So, staff uh respectively request the board of supervisors to abandon this 25 ft approximately.24 acres 2.248 acres on the southern portion of this undeveloped 50-foot rideway. and um this would become part of the Weber's property that they own. Um I would be glad to answer any questions. I know it's something different. Like I said, we don't usually have a lot of this in front of you, but um I'd be glad to answer any questions. I did receive some support from some of the neighbors. In fact, I didn't have time to make you

copies cuz right before the meeting, I received another letter of support from this property owner right here. And these um individuals sent letters of support when we first started working on this abandonment. Okay. Do any of the supervisors have questions? Mr. Quinn, start it off. So Lisa, just to confirm, the abandoned property then becomes part of the Weber property and it becomes part of it's on their tax roles or it's on our tax rules, right?

Yes, it would. So what would happen is probably they would use the same surveyor and instead of seeing the 0495, you would see just the 248 as part of their property and the rest would stay as a service road.

So and then Jim Gwen, this is really a question for you. So, it appears that there are uh drain fields in this vicinity and it makes me wonder if we should grandfather those drain fields if they should find some were under the service road for some unknown reason. Would that be a wise thing to do at this point? It doesn't it doesn't appear to be the case, but you don't really know where these drain fields are, right? You suspect they're on this one lot, but it's so close to this service road, you could almost end up with drain fields under the service road. Or let me put it another way. Is there is there something is there something the county should do to protect itself? Say we abandon this property and there's a drain field under the road. What happens then?

Or at least a portion of it. Well, and I'm wondering could the Webers then decide that this whoever owns it has to move it, which wouldn't be fair, right? I'm just wondering if there's a way to to grandfather any existing drain fields that are under that road so that somebody in the future is not required to move it. You could grant easement to the drain field before you do the deeds. Yeah, I was thinking it's going to be caught up within the deed exercise itself. put into

Exactly.

That's a good solution. Yep. Okay. Any other questions, comments? Um, Miss Cooper, are the applicants here? Yes. Yes, I'm I think they are. Yes. Would you like to speak this evening to the board? Good evening, sir. Good evening. If you'd state your name and address for the record, please. I am Dale Weber and I live at 6 Highland Lake Road in Union Hall. Thank you.

Uh, as far as the drain fields go, I know where they are. If you pull up the D to lot nine, you'll see them. They wouldn't be affected by the service road. They're not under that road if you look it up. Um, the reason I was after that piece of property is after we bought our house, we found out that the person that sold it to me wasn't quite uh truthful about where the boundaries were. And it's kind of a strange uh chop off when the back part of the property. So, that's three years ago, I started this about uh assuming that other piece of property and just adding to ours and you get some tax value out of it because right now you get nothing. Um, I would have absolutely taken the entire 50 ft if you wanted to give it up. And if you want to put an easement there in that piece, I have no problem with that. Um, or if you just want to do the 25 ft, that's fine. Uh, whatever whichever way you want to do it. Um, and like I say, we've talked to all the other neighbors about it and they were all like, "We don't want it. Do what you want to do with it. It doesn't really affect us." So, if we went with the 50 ft, it would actually connect to lot number 11, which I also own.

Uh, so that's why if you want to give up the 50 ft, I'd be willing to, you know, to do that. And if you want to put an easement in there in case someone would ever have to come in through there and go to lot nine, I have no problem with that. Uh, but if you just want to give up the 25 ft, that's understandable, too. Uh, you all can make that decision and u I'll live with the results. Thank you. Does anybody have any questions for the applicant? Thank you. So I'm I'm sorry, Mr. Quinn. We don't usually have questions from the county attorney. I was intrigued. You're telling us that the three lineers across essentially across the service are not interested in

Right. Yeah. Uh Jeff the line down the middle have to go one way and half the other. Yeah. They they they they didn't seem to have any concern about it at the time. No, I don't know if something's changed. No, I have letters from those um property owners if you'd like to see curious that say the same thing. Way to do it. Oh, and nice to meet you. I've talked to her. I've texted her. First time I've ever seen her. Any other questions for me? I think we're okay, but thank you so much. We appreciate you being here, sir. Okay, I will open the public hearing. Are we having a public hearing on this? Yes. Yes, I believe we are. There's nobody signed up.

There's nobody. Okay, very good. So, um there will be no need to open the public hearing nor close it. So, uh at this juncture, I will enter Mr. Gwen, are you giving me open it and then you close it? That's You want me to go ahead and open it and close it? Yes. Okay. The public hearing is open. No one has signed up. Ma, Madam Cler, correct? Correct. I did sign up. Um what is what is your name? Dwayne Durst. Durst, you signed up under public comment, but would you all allow him to speak if you did you mean to comment on this particular Yes. Yes, sir. And we'll remove you if that's what you wish under public comment.

Yes. Do you want to be removed from public comment, please? Okay. Uh and so what I will do at this juncture, we've I've opened the public hearing. I haven't closed it yet. Okay. We would like for you to state your name and address for the record, sir. Dr. Dwayne Durst, 30 Highland Lake Road. Thank you very much. I'm Dale Web Weber's neighbor.

Okay. both of the previous owners uh divided the uh service road uh less that back portion and I am very strongly in support of Dale being granted access not just to the 25 but to the 50 ft as it would be able to uh make his total property contiguous and I'd love to have my neighbor pay higher property taxes too. So thank you so very much. That's a gotcha moment. Okay. All right. Um, so I will close the public hearing. Thank you, sir, for acknowledging um that you were signed up. We appreciate that. Um, so I'll close the public comment. I will reopen the floor to supervisors for comments, questions.

Go ahead, Mr. Quinn. No, I I was just going hearing this here. I mean, I I guess the question is, would there be a possibility of we just abandon all that from our side and and and do this? I'm going to open that up. Is that a possibility? You're talking about the whole 50 ft. Yeah, Lisa. Uh yes, sir, that is a possibility. Um I do like the idea if just in some case if there could be an easement in case um there would need to be access that it could be put in the deed to go along with the plat and I think the owner was agreeable today.

He did say he was agreeable. The question I have Mr. Gwen is we did not advertise this public hearing as such. So would we have to readvertise for 50 ft? It's okay though. Okay. You're going to give an ease, but you're gonna have to have a public hearing about that anyway. Okay. Give an interest in property. Okay. So, under those circumstances.

Okay. And we'll just have to get to some consensus by motion, Mr. Meredith, on that. Okay. Okay. Any other questions, comments? Is that is that saying that we would table this for a later meeting to consider the 50 ft and not take action on the 25 ft tonight? That's what I would recommend. So we would not have a vote against we would table or defer. Just table it if that's at the will of the board of course. Um so I will entertain a motion as to what your desires are.

I'll make a motion. I have one more question Dan please. Um, so I'm assuming that's okay with the property owner and Lisa. Will this just automatically roll over and you redo this for next month's meeting for the 50 foot or Yes. If we table it this time? Yes. Okay. I'm good. Okay. Very good. Mr. Quinn, you were going to make a motion. I make a motion to table the abandonment of 25 approximately. 248 acres of the southern portion of the unimproved 50-foot railway. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Meredith. Um, all those in favor, Madame Clerk, if you would do a roll call. Supervisor Quinn,

yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes. Supervisor Meredith, yes. And Chair Smith, yes. Just point of clarification, ma'am. So we we will advertise a public hearing for next month for the full 50ft easement or 50ft abandonment with a dedicated easement in place. Now of course if that's at the satisfaction of the applicant um that's fine with me. Is that fine with you sir? Okay and and Miss Cooper you'll continue to work with the applicant I guess to fine-tune this as we move forward. Yes.

Okay. Perfect. Okay great. All right. So, that is the completion of our public hearings this evening. Um, we had an amenda amended agenda at the top of our 3:00 um hour. We've got um two items that we amended for. Plus, we did not get to Mr. Carter's financial report. Excuse me. Uh, Mr. Carter, if you're ready, I'd like to call you up to give our monthly finance report to begin. Madame Chair, members of the board, so we'll try and go through this fairly quickly um for the sake of of um the rest of the items this evening. So financial report through the end of March. So this would be 9 months out of the fiscal year. You would be looking at roughly 75% of the budget is what we would be considering. So you're looking at our property taxes, our taxes in general. Property taxes are a little below that 75% but they're not collected evenly monthly and we know that. So overall they're they're trending okay. Our revenues are looking good. You can see the total is 73% of the budget, but that's being driven down by property taxes, which are twice a year uh or some of your federal government, which is mostly due to um timing in the social services department. They're the big driver of federal revenue on the county side,

but they're not on a fiscal year basis either. Well, they're a June to May fiscal year in social services. It's May. It's it's odd the way they do it, but um Okay. But they do they're a little behind on the federal revenue portion of the budget, but they're typically program related and so it's going to be more reimbursement based. So that just means they're not spending that money either.

So on the expenditure side, um you can see that we're um at or below that 75% mark across pretty much all of our categories except public works. It's a little bit above that at 75.7%. uh not of of grave concern for us from a total budgetary standpoint. So actual revenues, you can see graphically they're they're up a little bit for March compared to prior year on the green line. We'll break that down a little more categorically for you. Realistically, property taxes are where the growth is remaining at this point. Uh other local taxes and state revenue are relatively flat year-over-year as of the end of March. Uh your property taxes are up approximately 2.8 8 million year-over-year. Uh remember about a million and a half of that is is Mountain Valley pipeline money that was not budgeted for and was not collected in the prior years, first year of it. So roughly we have about a 1.3 million growth factor in property taxes so far through the end of March year-over-year. So real estate is actually down a little bit uh year-over-year. It's almost 667,000 about almost 3%. We're still okay from a budgetary standpoint. Now, what we are seeing is this is the current real estate. We are seeing delinquent collections higher and so when you net them out, we're about where we would anticipate to be on real estate this point in time. So, and of course that bills will now be issued and so we'll start to see probably not so much in May, but realistically uh in April, but realistically in May, you'll see those collections for the first half of real estate come in for the calendar year. So, property taxes, we're a little behind year-over-year, about 700 175,000, but we're 104% of budget. So, we've we've exceeded our budget plan for the year. And so, that's really what's driving a lot of that property tax revenue growth we were talking about uh

earlier on the slide. Sales tax is one of those that are they're falling to the other local taxes. You can see you saw previously that was relatively flat. Uh we had a a relatively even month year-over-year. Uh that light blue line, you can see it's about where it was prior year. So it's still about a 3.1% growth, just under $200,000. We're trending okay. We had a little bit of a discussion on sales tax in the school portion talking about it wasn't evenly collected throughout the year. And you see the same thing on the county side. Uh it usually cycles it's two months behind. So it cycles in February for December Christmas season sale sales collections. And then you see the the summer months, the warmer months, you typically see a spike in sales tax collections. You'll see the same on meals tax. We actually had a down month for meals tax. Uh it was uh still about three and a half% year-over-year growth. Uh but you can see the kind of the the the light blue or the teal line that is below where we have been the past two years. uh for meals tax collections about 40,000 still above. Now occupancy tax is seeing the reverse effect. We actually had a a higher month of collections compared to the prior two years on transient occupancy. Uh much smaller part of the budget, 7.9% growth by $25,000. So all in all, I mean relatively solid, consistent, just not a lot of of uh excessive growth in those monthly taxes that you would anticipate. That's usually more considered discretionary revenue. So general fund the the actual expenditures were pretty much on par with where they were in March last year. You saw they were up a little bit in February, but March u evened out categorically. We're not seeing a lot of fluctuation. We would expect some increases just based on general inflation that we wouldn't see in the overall economy. No real drivers there as to why certain expenditures are up. We anticipated that. Health and welfare expenditures. We usually break that

down. You can actually see the program revenue for social services. That middle graph is down a little bit for this year over last. And that's what is driving a little bit of that difference in say federal revenue uh on the overall because their programs are down year-over-year. So revenue is a little behind. A lot of that is reimbursement bases state and federal when they operate out of the programs. So CSA is up a little bit but um still within regular percentage that we would anticipate for budget at this point in time of the year. So we we break down our fund balance and reserves and so this is unudedited but this is pulled from our system as of the end of March. And so you can see we've backed out of course our restricted funds and carryover funds that was previously approved by the board. Uh you can see that uh we're down to about just under $7 million above our policy limit after you back out restricted funds and unassigned fund balance. And so anticipated that it would continue to decline until we get to that next window of property tax collection. So you'll likely see this go up when as we collect our first half of real estate taxes and then you'll see a similar trend where it will decline again till we get to around November December for the sake of our our cyclical property taxes. Uh but just keep in mind I think that wanted to give you an idea of what you know we don't necessarily have a lot of just discretionary cash to spend for uh reserves and unplanned spending right now. We're only about 7 million above our our policy minimum at this point. back to the discussion of rating agencies and what they look for and how we we maintain those balances. So, quick economic update. Uh March CPI was uh was increased 3.3%. A lot of that is dealing with energy prices. If you notice, core inflation, which is less food and energy, was 2.6%. So, the the global events and the the

increase in in fuel prices and gas is is driving a lot of inflation. uh for March. You can see that why you see the difference in core inflation at 2.6%. Unemployment nationwide actually dropped uh to 4.3%.1 percentage point for March. Um because of the uncertainty in the market, Federal Reserve left the rates unchanged. They're still 3 and a half to 3.75% is their benchmark rate. That's of course what our investment earnings are based off of. And so the um next Federal Open Market Committee meeting of the Federal Reserve is scheduled for the end of the month. Uh unless something drastically changes, don't expect an increase or an adjustment in the interest rate. Uh their benchmark rate on that as well. Probably going to be steady for another month or two at least. There is anticipated to do be a new Federal Reserve chair in May, assuming that appointment is recommended by the president and and confirmed by the by the Congress. So I don't know if that escalates policy or changes anything but right now we consider that rate to be consistent. Uh general assembly they are to convene uh this week for to recommend to consider the governor's amendments or to adopt uh override and adopt their own proposed legislation. So we're still in that state budget process. We will see what comes out of that process. Um I do want to go back to uh a lot of these are the same pressures you you saw last month. Uh we know about the LCI adjustment for schools, less state funding. Uh it is a pressure. Uh private day cost did pass. Um do not know that it has been officially signed yet, but it did cap the state reimbursement at 2 and a.5%. So everything above that would be 100% local cost. So that's a burden that the county would have to cover. Uh right now the state is still proposing to cover the cost share and SNAP administrative costs passed down by the federal government. um that could be a fairly sign significant portion if state pulls back on that commitment, there's still about

a billion dollar budget gap between the general assembly in the house and the senate. And so any number of things can change as they they solve that. Uh one thing that is going to impact our budget uh in the future, not necessarily this fiscal year or this upcoming fiscal year as well, uh paid family leave was signed by the governor and so that is now allowing for 12 weeks of paid leave for citizens. However, in order to pay for that, it is going to be a new payroll tax. And so the employee and employer will take similar to the way FICO for social security Medicare is taken out of our paychecks and there's employer match. Um what we understand from that is now that's a new tax that the county will have to levy on its employees and really every citizen in the state that um receives a paycheck is going to incur that tax once that program becomes effective. Uh minimum wage was also approved by the governor to increase and so it will increase January 1st to $13.75. It will increase January 1st, 2028 to $15 an hour. Uh we do not think that will impact our 2027 budget. That's only about 6 months of the fiscal year of the budget. Uh but as mentioned previously, that's going to be a huge budget pressure as we then load in the $15 an hour in the 2028 fiscal year budget and also try and fix the compression that's going to create with all of our existing staff. Collective bargaining uh was amended by the governor and returned to the general assembly. We are still waiting to see how that process works out. Um, one estimate that has been provided and really been all over the place, but um, I think a fairly reasonable estimate is that we've seen from localities responding to this is that it can increase personnel costs by 20% as your employees can now unionize and and collectively bargain. And so, you know, I mean, personnel is a huge piece of the budget. So, if that goes up 20%, that's

going to be a significant budget pressure for us. the governor's amendments were to push the implementation of that to 2030 uh instead of 2027 or 28. So, we'll see if a general assembly accepts that or overrides it. At this point, it'll create a whole new board that'll set the rules and regulations on this. So, it's really new territory for us in Virginia. We will we will of course keep updated as we move towards that. Uh there is still uh state funded bonus payments for uh state employees, state support and local employees. So, this will impact your constitutional offices possibly. Uh, also your school system SOQ employees and um probably social services employees, although I'm not clear on the language on what that looks like. And so, um, we'll continue to monitor that. If we can get a final on the state budget, see what those numbers are, that may be an action item we bring to you at your May meeting. If we want to proceed with with the bonuses, um that at least the portion for the state, we can decide on the the local portion. So, I really won't rehash the school update. We talked about that quite a bit. Uh I just will point out about the middle of the slide that their local transfer of operating is at 88.4% as of the end of March and it was 64.8% 8% in March of last year. So I think that's why we're concerned about the timing of these revenues as they come in. So that's what we'll continue to monitor. And so with that, we haven't answer any questions.

Thank you, Brian. Yes, ma'am. Supervisors have any questions, comments for Brian? Thank you, Brian. We really appreciate uh that update. Thank you. Okay. The next item on our agenda, we're going to move to the county administrators report. Mr. Sandy.

Yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair. And and since Brian gives all the bad news, I'll give some good news. Um it it's that time of year when when you're seeing more events happening in the county and so I'm not going to mention all of them, but coming up this weekend, um got the Blue Ridge Institute Moonshine Heritage Car Show and uh barbecue cookoff. We got the Boon Mill Fishing Rodeo. We've got the Strike Bass Challenge Championship at Smith Mountain Lake. So, just this weekend, there's there's those three events. And so, um, several more that are coming, you know, later this April and and into May. And again, I'm not going to list all those, but one I did want to point out was on May 9th that the Virginia 250 mobile museum will be at uh Ben Franklin uh Middle School. So, uh that's kind of a neat uh part of the Virginia 250 celebration. Um, so that'll be available to the public on uh May 9th. Um, also Mother's Day on May 10th, so don't forget about that. Um, I did want to just um speak about an event that we had. It it was posted on our social media page. Uh, Supervisor Mitchell was able to be there, but we had a neat event at Wade Park last week. Um, just talking about a grant that we received from T-Mobile, uh, a hometown grant, and we were able to get, uh, close to $50,000 of funding from T-Mobile, uh, without a match. And it's a really neat program that our parks and wreck and our, uh, public safety department worked on together to put, uh, 12 AED devices at several of our county parks. Um, and these will be situated in uh protective boxes, so they'll be protected from the weather and so forth, but um, you know, as many people that are out at our ball fields and activities and so forth. To have these, uh, defibrills there on site could, you know, could be life or death for some people. And so, uh, that was a neat event. It was it was good to to be able to see that. And so you'll see those at our county parks going up um

you know soon as we're able to get those devices in and be able to install those at uh several of the county parks. And Steve, I think it's also good to say that was an item that was going to be budgeted for. Correct. Those AEDs going so that was a direct a direct savings getting that grant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It it was a great uh opportunity to to do a great thing uh in our community and and get, you know, the funding to come from somewhere else. So, so that's a great uh just wanted to highlight that. And then uh just a reminder on May 13th, we'll have be having a joint work session with the planning commission as well. So, just wanted to remind you of that. And that's really all I have.

Thank you, Mr. Sandy. We very much appreciate it. Okay, we'll move to county attorney's report. Mr. Gwyn, good evening. Chair, um ordinarily I don't have a report necessarily, but I've had a couple of requests uh from board members to report on the topic of supervisor discipline where it comes from and the like and I did put together something if you want to hear it. Yes, please.

Um so we exist as a governing body by statute 15.2-1400 And the Virginia code sets governing bodies and as you know we're a building rule state so we can't do anything that we don't have statuto statuto basis for under paragraph D of 152.2-1400 uh the governing body may punish or find a member of a governing body for disorderly behavior. It doesn't tell us what disorderly behavior is. I think that's left to the various boards under the circumstances to determine. There isn't really case law out there one way or the other. Um, one thing that that is clear though is that anytime that supervisor discipline is going to be considered, it has to be looked at as a personnel issue. There have been across the state five or six centers over the last year and all of them have looked at it as a personnel issue. And under Freedom of Information Act 2.23711A uh discussion of disciplining of specific public officers of any public body may hold closed meetings to do that because this board only employs two folks me and Steve. Um you know you usually don't have that situation. employee discipline is handled in the uh by directors and the like. But one thing that we do is make sure that we never uh publicize we do our best to try and and keep u any any discipline of a public employee private and confidential. And one of the reasons for that uh you know it's just

the because so much of our our employees lives are discoverable under for you how much they make what the positions are this that and the other. One of the things that we don't do is disclose personnel decisions disclose discipline of those employees and whatever. The other thing that the statute though doesn't do is tell us what punish or fine a member means. I think final means something that we can all figure out. But for example, in one county the punishment included stripping of committee memberships. So there are a number of different uh ways all of them involve a censure which I think is the sort of threshold discipline that gets applied in those situations. case came out of uh Chesby, city council Chesby and uh was a circuit court decision and and that was a case that talked in terms of uh due process which is an interesting concept in a uh in this type of situation. Typically under the 14th amendment, due process is owed anytime you're depriving someone of a property right. And one of the interesting things about the Chesapeake decision was trying to figure out what the property right was if there's not a fine or something like that. You're not really taking somebody depriving them of property or whatever. But because the court had mentioned it, you know, to me it seems like it's an appropriate anytime that you're going to be involved in a disciplinary matter like that, whether it's of an employee or whether it's of a supervisor, you're going to want to involve due process. Uh the United States Supreme Court talked about that first in a case called Cleveland Board

of Education versus what the court said and what is sort of filtered down through the U circuit courts is due process itself is not the same for every instance. It it es and flows and depends upon uh the right that's at stake, the nature of it and the like. For example, courts have approved when we are if if there's going to be a discipline of an employee, the employee has the right uh to uh know ahead of time, be told what it is that they've done, what it is that they violated, and they have a right to be heard. They don't have a right for a hearing necessarily, you know, have a right to have attorneys involved or anything like that ahead of time. All they get is notice and and an opportunity to be heard. Uh typically with public employees here and frankly across the state based upon just my informal poll with folks that I know at local government attorneys that I was at last weekend, it's about three days. So basically you tell the employee sometime in the next three days you got to make an appointment. You can come in, tell me anything you want to tell me. You can present me anything you want to in writing. I'll consider it and then I'll make my decision. It doesn't include although based on what Brian said, it may change soon, but it doesn't include having representation or anything like that. That may change depending on how this whole collective argument. The bottom line is that from a due process standpoint, it's very informal. It's simply a matter of receiving notice of the allegations and having an opportunity to be heard before that happens. So from that standpoint, that's the process

that has followed and it's process that this board followed. And I'm not sure that that answers everybody on the board's questions, but you know, if you do have any other questions, by all means, let me know. I'd be happy to to address them. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Gwyn. Um, I'm going to open up the floor to supervisors. Um, this is obviously, you know, in regard to, uh, the continued feedback that we get, uh, regarding Mr. Quinn's censure back in December. Um, and so I'll just say that for the record um, regarding your your um, statutory remarks, if you will, across the board and it Yeah, it goes across the board.

This is the procedure that Yeah. Yeah. That's the foundation and and the baseline for what was done. Any questions or comments from supervisors? Mr. Quinn,

Jim, I think that on um I think your comment that it can be u put into a closed meeting. I think in the future it'd be very good to offer the opportunity to the person being censured to have it be in a public meeting and have because the reason it's it sounds like it's being put in the closed meeting to protect that person. But if that person doesn't feel a need to be protected and would like the public to hear the whole case, it would seem like that should be an option offered to the board member in the future.

It's not the statute that way, Dan. Uh, I I can't tell you that that wouldn't happen. U, but I would be I don't think it's something you would say every time because there may be matters that are discussed that shouldn't be discussed in public in that regard. and it might also hinder um the free flow of information back and forth between the rest of the board and the member.

So it would be Yeah, I I see what you're saying, but it is ultimately a board decision because under the Freedom Information Act, you don't have to have uh you know, you can always use your discretion not to hold it as a as a closed meeting. But I think a lot of it's going to be on kind of a issue by issue or person by person basis based upon what the information is.

I think the other challenge that many people have is just uh the lack of transparency by the board and so the board was able to make their opinion known about the censure via the motion that was made. So the the board's full story is presented in the motion. However, there's not a chance for the defendant, if you will, to make their story known. Um, it it's not reasonable that you'd be prepared to make your story immediately after the motion to censure. There would be time required to make that story. And I think I think a lot of people want to hear both sides. They heard the county's story, the board of supervisor story in the motion, but they didn't hear my story. And so I think that's the other challenge with this is how do you present both sides to the public?

I'm sure that the law takes that into account from the standpoint of how you do it.

I understand, but it's something we as a board should want to share that transparency with the public, I think. And we're really talking about the future, not my situation. I guess I would put it this way and I would ask Steve what he thinks, but if with all due respect to the board, if y'all get mad at me and decide to fire me, please don't tell everybody why. Okay? I mean, but seriously, I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, uh I think that's something that the board would have to take up in its rules of procedure or whatever. uh because there's not a provision uh in the code that would necessarily address that situation.

And Jim, I would just add to that if I may. Um Dan, you have the floor if I may. Just interest interject a thought. This board um during my tenure um we've always treated personnel matters which statutoily unless it's a supervisor fall under the opices of the county administrator. statute states clearly um that employee personnel matters are not to be deliberated or discussed by the board of supervisors. Number one is correct. Yes, ma'am. Again, other than the county administrator and the county

that Yeah. our two employees. So, um I would I would say that historically the board has really never had um opportunity nor would get the opportunity to discuss personnel. Um now when it came to a personnel meth excuse me a personnel matter of the board um you gave us statutory guidance um on that process and and and Mr. Quinn, with regard to um your side not being heard and you and I had this discussion, I think a couple times um that evening when the censure was done um there was ample opportunity for you to request um time at the DEAS to provide um you know your rebuttal to that um and you didn't take it and um I know you wanted an extension on the whole matter u but the board again was relying on the the guidance of the county admin I mean county attorney um to make that happen. So as you know I don't feel like you were agrieved of of not being able to give your side of the story. Uh and we've talked about that. Uh and I think for Mr. Gwyn what you're saying is that the statute does not articulate that with specificity.

Correct. Am I getting that right? Yes. Okay. So Mr. Quinn, I I would just add that normally you would share your your point of view before the motion's made, right? And we came out and the motion was made. You wouldn't normally share your point of view after a motion was made. That's point one. And the second, it would take a long time to completely put together your story. It took me six weeks to put together the story. So certainly after a motion's made, one minute later, I wouldn't be prepared to have a good story about what happened. And so I did I didn't make a comment. I agree, but I don't it wasn't appropriate at that time.

Would you agree that the board spent significant time with you in November and December in close session on this matter? Well, not in December. I know you've stated that the board spent time with me in December, but the censure was made in November. There was there was no further discussion about it in December. So the the end of the censure was in November. Okay. I'd have to go back and check the record on it. Dan, I do recall though I sent you the letter three days before. Yes. And then they didn't make a decision in that first meeting and there was another meeting a couple weeks later, wasn't there?

No, it was there was a there was a meeting two days later was on that Thursday. And also, just for the record, u the agenda didn't note that there'd be a disciplinary disc discussion on that Thursday. However, the disciplinary discussion occurred, but so is two days later. Mhm. Okay. I just recalled that there was time afterward because you had requested it. Mhm. Any other comments, thoughts?

Okay, Mr. Gwyn, I appreciate your clarification on process um and um some opportunity for some clarification. Um, as I said, we, you know, we kept being told as a board that we did not, um, that we were not transparent on a personnel matter and close session under FOYA is designed to be protective of of certain levels of information and it's very well articulated in the state code. Um and so if transparency and close session um to me are counter they counteract each other if you will. Do you agree with that? I mean we cannot be transparent about close session discussion.

Well I think there's a reason for the Freedom of Information Act. Right. Um and I think that um when you look at the exceptions um most of the reasons behind those exceptions that is things that you can talk about in a closed meeting are pretty obvious when you start reading it.

Um and you know I think one of them is if if the jail authority is going to discuss the architecture of the jail. Well, they don't want prisoners to know where the, you know, the vents are or whatever to be able to get out or, you know, that sort of thing. So, there are um a number of different things that can be exempted uh and closed meetings can be held. And again, personnel is one of them. Um you know, conference with your attorney from a attorney client privilege standpoint. Just a number of things that uh when you read each one of them, uh they really do kind of make sense. Yeah. So, um, okay. So, we'll conclude.

Mr. Meredith, if if I may, uh, if it's okay with the board, I'd like I'd like to do a little research just in that situation. If just for future use, if the person does say, I want to discuss it here, is that because I know you said it really didn't say in the statue. If that person involved says that, just just so we have facts moving in the future. Sure. I think uh is that an opportunity if the person were in that personnel issue? I

I think Mr. Meredith, what would happen in that situation is uh make the request and then it it's the board's decision whether or not to have the closed meeting and they can wave that and and in their prerogative or discretion discuss something in public that they could have discussed in a in a closed meeting. So I think it would be a board decision at that point. So as on the legal side or anything we're held accountable. I mean should there be something in writing from the person say it's from me saying I give permission to have this in public. So anything that's exposed I cannot hold the county responsible because normally it would be in close session.

Uh if I'm making sense it's covering the county. You could and then it would be up to the to the board members to determine whether or not they were comfortable with that.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um I'm going to um move on if the board um has you all sure you don't have any questions or concerns. Uh I appreciate your feedback, Mr. Gwyn, and I appreciate the feedback from supervisors. Okay, we are going to move um I think we've completed our reports. Um we are going to move into public comment. Uh we've reached the time set aside for public comment. Public comment gives citizens an opportunity to address the board in person or in writing on matters appropriate to the responsibilities of the board. Each speaker will be limited to three minutes for their comments. Speakers must direct all comments to the board as a whole and not to individual board members or employees of the board or county. personal attacks and insulting, defamatory, profane or vulgar vulgar language directed at individual supervisors or the board will not be tolerated. Likewise, commentary on issues that are not under or within the purview of the board and that are not a function of local government and over which we have no control are not acceptable. Public comment is not a question and answer session and board members will not answer questions during public comment. The chair of the board has the ultimate authority to manage the time the board allocates to public comment. The chair's authority includes, but is not limited to, limiting public comment to one person per side, or position of a topic, shortening the time that each speaker has to speak, and or waving any of the public comment provisions when appropriate and/or necessary. If a speaker violates these rules, the chair may rule the speaker out of order and upon second violation, have the speaker removed from the podium. Madame Chair, clerk, excuse me. Do we have anybody signed up?

Timothy Shelton. Thank you.

Good evening, Mr. Shelton. If you'd say your name and address, please. My name is Tim Shelton. I live at 253 Dudley Creek. Thank you. Thank you. Microphone. Yeah, if you would speak into the microphone, that would Okay. Can y'all hear now? All right. I'm sorry.

So, um I'm Tim Shelton. I live at 253 Dudley Creek. I own property uh rental property as well as a business in Arty. I've been a resident here for 27 years and my oldest son has been here and still a resident of Franklin County since he was two. My youngest son is a high school uh junior at Franklin County High School and my grandson is a CHA student. So to say that I have a vested interest in what goes on in this county is an understatement. That being said, I politely request that everyone on this board take the document of some 400 pages of rules and regulations and throw it in the trash. Um, admittedly, admittedly, I've I haven't read the whole thing. I couldn't stomach but so much of it. However, I think I speak for the majority that we would as taxpayers, we would take it on the chin for the several hundred or the hundred and some thousand dollars that was paid to Berkeley Group to ultimately make our lives more difficult and more expensive. After voting this down, I would suggest that each one of you board members go to your uh uh areas and handpick or not handpick, ask for volunteers, make focus groups, uh have meetings and and more meetings and more meetings with the people that live here, the people that um that that have everyday life in this county or have jobs, have careers. Um, I've gotten off task here. That thrive here, that struggle here to make the decisions as to what we will do with our land. Not y'all, not Berkeley Group, not some outside source. I would also recommend that you uh pick students, future land owners in our county, uh, business owners, farmers, realators, bankers, stay-at-home moms, truckers, people that work here and live

here. or people that work that live here and work elsewhere. People that live here and uh to the people of the county that or they may watch us on this line online and to this board, the residents of this county want you to make it easier to live here, not harder. Not more red tape, not more rules, not more money. And the money, y'all just voted to raise our taxes. Um who's going to enforce these new rules? You're going to have to have employees to enforce the rules that you're trying to impose on us. And I'm almost out of time, so that's good. I think you get the point. Thank you, sir.

Patrick Kazamato. Patrick Kazamato. Bob Santier. And he has requested five minutes. Sir, do you have a group with you? Kip, if they could stand, please. Okay. Thank you. Good evening, sir. Good evening. If you'd state your name and address for the record, please. Robert Santier, 302 Windingway, Union Hall, Virginia. Thank you.

Good evening. Uh, this is my first time speaking before this board of supervisors. My wife and I moved to Franklin County in 2015 after 30 years in Northern Virginia where we saw firsthand what happens when growth is mismanaged. We chose this rural agricultural county deliberately. Today's board of supervisors meeting agenda included voting for the largely unpopular tax rate increases for all Franklin County residents. Unpopular due to lack of trust in this board. So the real issue is trust and why it's lacking. Consider these recent examples. One, a $1.4 $4 million school budget accounting error in a county that chronically underfunds its schools. That is not a rounding mistake. It is a credibility problem. Two, the Summit Business Park. The county's own 2016 RARI uh analysis projected 176.6 million in annual in economic impact in by 2026 and 100.5 million by 2021. Did 2025 come anywhere close to the 2021 projection, much less the 2026 projection? The public deserves to hear sober truth about bad outcomes, not delay while you hope for miracles. Three, a $4 million no bid HVAC contract approved by this board without competitive bidding, without explanation, and an unexplained lastminute flip-flop vote against further erosion of your credibility. Four, and we just talked about the censure issue, but the censure of a fellow board member after he called for an independent investigation into a whistleblower concern. No independent investigation ever occurred, and no explanation of your decisions and behavior appears to be self-s serving. Five, a 300 plus page zoning ordinance rewrite moving forward rapid rap moving

toward rapid approval with no public understanding or input. The draft was released just last month, combining routine technical changes with significant des discretionary ones with little time for the public to distinguish between them. Six. And now today, the tax rate increases you just voted on with no clear explanation of the benefit to the residents. These are not isolated incidents. They form a pattern showing showing that you do not understand the public's tolerance for repeated mistakes followed by silence. And that pattern erodess trust. At the heart of representative government is trust. Not abstract trust, but trust earned through competence and ethical transparent behavior. People deserve to know how decisions are made, why they are made, and who they truly serve. Transparency is not about sharing information when it is convenient. It means being open, especially when it is difficult. Because scrutiny is not a weakness of leadership. It is a hallmark of it. This connects directly to fiduciary duty. Public officials are obligated to act in the best interest of the people, not themselves, not a favored few. That requires integrity and discipline and sometimes the courage to make hard decisions that are right even when they are not popular. That duty is the foundation of public trust. And public trust is fragile. It takes years to build and moments to lose. When it breaks, people are people disengage. They question motives. They lose confidence not just in individuals but in institutions themselves. That is where we are today. You are not rulers. You are stewards. You were chosen to represent the people of this county. That only works when your decisions are grounded in accountability and when when the public generally understands and trusts what you are doing. Strong representative government requires open dialogue, meaningful transparency, and a

sincere effort to involve the public, especially on decisions of consequential as as consequential as zoning changes and tax increases. So, I'll close with this. Ethics, transparency, fiduciary responsibility, and public trust are not separate ideas. They are the foundation of effective governance. If you want support for the tax increases, zoning ordinance changes, or any major initiative, you must first rebuild that trust. That starts with slowing down, explaining yourselves, and be prepared to clearly articulate your actions and how they will benefit the people of Franklin County. The question is not whether these principles matter. The question is whether the board is willing to live by them. Thank you.

Thank you, Cameron Shelton. Cameron Shelton. I'm I'm I'm sorry. I'm going to have to ask you all to withhold your applause during public comment. We can't hear the clerk. Um so if you would withhold your applause, we would greatly appreciate that. It's not proper to quum. Good after Good evening, I should say. My name is Cameron Shelton. Um Tim Shelton's son. This is his grandson, my son. Uh, so I don't have a big long list. Um, but what I do have is

you give your name and address for the record. I'm sorry to interrupt you. And your address, please. 2710, uh, 6 mile post road, Callaway. Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Yep. So, uh, my thing is I've stayed in this county. I've had a lot of trust in this county. And as far as making change in Virginia, right, it starts at this level and you guys are in our way of doing that. Um, I feel that wholeheartedly. I feel personally attacked. Feel like you guys are coming after us. Just feel oppressed and uh I feel like it's just going to keep bleeding down my kids, his kids, their kids. and the zoning ordinances, the taxes, it's just getting overbearing. It's getting ridiculous. I mean, we can't hardly do anything anymore. I make more than he did. My dad did, my granddads did at my age. And it's harder to do anything at my age than it was at my age when they were my age. and uh the tax increases, the food tax increases, all that stuff is just making it that much harder on everybody else. So, if we're bad on budgets, then y'all need to fix them. And it doesn't need to come from us, unless it needs to come from us. But if it does, we need to know why. And it needs to be transparent and understanding. And if it needs to come to a vote for the county and the people in the county, then that's what it needs to do. If that's what regains our trust in you guys, then I would advise doing those things. So,

thank you. That's all we got. Thank you, Mr. Shelton. We appreciate it. Ed Saunders.

Good evening, Mr. Saunders.

Good evening. Ed Saunders, 245 Nature Stone Road. Definitely not my first rodeo in Fair, Virginia. Uh I'm here this evening. I want to talk to you guys specifically about one thing that I see that really troubles me. Uh there's a push uh from Nova down here into this beautiful part of Virginia for data centers. I've seen very uh various steps um between like the zoning changes and the extra infrastructure at the uh park out there. I feel like you guys are wanting to bring these in or there's a push from the outside to bring these in. I know the Rono Valley um some of the organizations that that bring in businesses are really pushing these things to this entire half of Virginia. And uh I'm representing a lot of folks here that uh couldn't be here this evening or don't want to talk in front of this thing, which is understandable. Uh and I just ask that you put this on the ballot for November. Let us decide what kind of businesses we are okay with bringing into our community. uh especially when something like that can bring uh a lot of trouble and a lot of uh issues that we don't know yet. Uh this is still kind of a new technology, a new thing. Even if it's a moratorum uh for 10 years or something like that, give us time. Give us chance to uh decide what happens in our county. As a concerned neighbor, I appreciate your guys' time. I appreciate what you do. And please, please, please put something on the ballot in November to let us decide what happens in our communities. Thank you.

Thank you. Anne Rogers. Can you repeat that, please? Madam Clerk, Annne Rogers, George KS and Oh, Ann's back there. Sorry. Good evening, ma'am. If you'd state your name and address for the record, please. I am Ann Rogers. I'm at 6347 Back Creek Road, Boones Mill, but that's Rowanoke County, not Franklin County. No, it's Burns Mill. You're not a Franklin County resident. That's correct.

Well, we can't allow you to speak. Okay. Can I give you copies of um documents? You can hand them to our clerk. Okay. Thank you, George KS. Good evening, Mr. KS. Hi. Good to see you again. Yes, sir. If you restate your name. Smith. My name is George KS. Yes. And uh your address. My residence is 680 Old Salem School Road. Thank you. Thank you.

The zoning project started as a simple update to bring us in line with new state laws. Instead, it turned into a 400page rewrite, and the board of supervisors never voted to expand the scope of that rewrite. Our county administrator brought in the Berkeley Group to Franklin County. He has served for years on the executive committee of the rural planning caucus with Darla Orur, who is the executive manager of the Berkeley Group. The county gave them this contract with no bidding and no competition. That's not right. There should have been a public RFP for something of this significance. This draft contains rules that will hurt small family farms. It puts strict limits on livestock and selling your own eggs, honey, or other farm products. They tell us that we are grandfathered, but if someone stops using their property for as little as two years, you permanently lose your grandfathered rights. One bad year, one injury, one time you can't work the land, and you lose the right to farm your own property forever if you're in one of these special grandfathered areas. To the people out in Phum, Callaway, Snow Creek, they tell you you aren't zoned and won't be zoned. They did not write a 400page, several hundred,000 document to leave it sit on a shelf. They have built the combine and they're not going to let it sit in the barn. I'm asking this board to hit pause, go back to the original narrow scope, and give the citizens of Franklin County a fair process. Thank you Shelton for three minutes. Crumpler Dennis,

you were part of the group. Okay, next time.

If you uh state your name and address for the record, please ma'am. Kim Shelton, 253 Dudley Creek Road. The very first section of zoning ordinance explains why these rules exist and what responsibilities the county has to its residents. It says, "Zoning is meant to promote health, safety, and general welfare of the public, prevent overcrowding and congestion, protect agricultural and natural areas, and support a convenient, attractive, and harmonious community. These aren't just statements on paper. They are foundation for every decision the county makes. That's why so many residents are concerned about the proposed zoning structure changes. Franklin County is not just a place where people live. It is a place where families have built their lives for generations. Many residents come from families who have lived on the same land for decades, some for over a century. Their way of life is tied to the land, to agriculture, to open space, and to the freedom to use their property as they choose to and in the same ways their parents and grandparents did. Regardless of the acreage amount each residents own, the value to each resident is the same and should be respected. These families have shaped the identity of this county through their work, their traditions, and their commitment to this community. Additionally, while we welcome new residents who choose to move here, their arrival should not mean reshaping the entire zoning structure in ways that make it harder for long-standing families to continue living as they always have. Growth should complement the community, not override it. The ordinance says we must protect community character, agricultural land, and the general welfare of the public. Yet, the proposed changes feel like they move away from those commitments and toward a model that benefits outside expectations and increasing the county funds and their lack of responsibility to manage appropriately rather than protect the interest of the people who built this county. Another concern is how these changes were developed. The county hired an outside firm, the Berkeley

Group, to rewrite and determine what is best for Franklin County. I lost my space. But no, no consultant from the no consultant from outside this community understands the daily realities, the history, or the values of the people who live here. The ordinance requires reasonable consideration of impacts on residents, and that means involving the people who are directly affected, not outsourcing the vision for our future to a group that doesn't live here, work here, or raise their families here. Each board member was elected to represent the people in their districts. That responsibility includes listening to residents, understanding their concerns, and upholding the promise to protect their well-being. When generations of families say these changes threaten their way of life, that should matter. When entire districts show up in opposition, that should matter. The community is not opposed to planning or growth. We are opposed to changes that feel out of step with the protections and priorities written into the ordinance itself. And that brings us to the purpose of a public hearing. Public hearings exist so residents can voice their concerns and so board can hear and evaluate them. Look around this room tonight. The number of people who showed up is not an accident. It is a statement.

Jason Beldner. Madam Clark. Madam clerk, if we could just take a brief moment, I'd like to make a quick statement if I may. Sir, I'm sorry if you just give me a cup. I'm sorry. I I want to just clarify a couple key points um on the zoning rewrite and this process for our board has just been we just got the reddraft final draft when you got it and our board has yet to sit down collectively to talk about this reddraft. We will do so starting Thursday. So we are so early in this process. It's a draft. This board has not had its hands in it yet. And the assumption that think that this is a document that's going to be adopted in its current form is is not an assumption you should be making. With all due respect,

I I I I'm not going to take any comments or I'm going to call you folks. Respond to us at all. Exactly. I am the chair of this board and I have the prerogative to respond and if you can't demonstrate proper decorum, we will have you sent out.

Ladies and gentlemen, please, please, please, I beg of you to have proper decor and respect. We give that to you and we ask that back of you in this in this meeting. I'm trying to tell you where we are in this process and if you believe it or not is up to you. This board for the first time will have its opportunity to sit collectively as a board and discuss this document on Thursday. We will have additional work sessions, one of which will be one with the planning commission. This document has a draft timetable of sometime this summer and only this summer for adoption if the board's ready. And if the board is not ready, we're not going to adopt it. And most of us up here are having community meetings with our constituents. And we have had the opportunity through two community meetings to hear from you all. And we value that. All all we ask for is proper decorum. uh and not screaming at us and being disrespectful because we do work for you and we know that and you have tasked us with trying to balance the needs of this county with how we represent you and that's exactly what we get up every day and try to do. I think it's an important note of clarification. I a lot of people have taken it to heart that this is a done deal and it is simply not a done deal and we are going to continue to try to learn and listen and hear from you all because it's it's important this document I have said this this needs to be a Franklin County document a consulting firm yes was used and to work with our planning commission and our planning staff but it is it is the planning staff the plann planning commission, those of us that live here and our citizens that are going to drive

this document. This is not an outside document. And if it needs to be fixed in a way in some sections that talks to we the people of Franklin County, then it's going to look like that. That's why we're here

and I appreciate you being here. And I just want to give you some reassurances that this will be a Franklin County document. it it has to be and we represent you and we take that very very seriously. So I appreciate you letting me just give you a couple pieces of clarification because I really want you walking with us, not against us. Give us a chance to work on it. Uh it's not a done deal, gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen. So I'm going to stop there. Madame clerk, if you call the next speaker, Jason Feldman. Hello. If you'd state your name and address, please. Jason Feldman, 22,000 Franklin Street. Thank you.

I want to open by saying thank you to supervisors Mike Meredith, Dan Quinn, Tim Tatum for stepping up and hosting public meetings. Uh that kind of direct engagement with our constit with constituents is exactly what this community has been asking for. I also want to recognize uh Chairperson Smith for her upcoming community meeting. Uh Thursday, April 30th at 6 p.m. Scruggs Fire Department in Blue Water Drive. I hope to see a full house. Uh, and I'll say it plainly, uh, I'm looking forward to seeing similar forms from the rest of you. Um, uh, as well, uh, in light of recent controversial topics and common concerns that many residents have, uh, uh, residents have of not feeling like leadership is hearing their concerns. I've been, uh, I started up a volunteer-driven community polling project called the Pulse of Franklin County. Uh we simply just post polls in the Franklin County Community uh events Facebook group and we've got quite a bit of engagement, far more than the Berkeley group has got in their community outreach. Um uh let's see, I lost my spot here. Uh just trying to give residents a little structured way to feel heard and bring that data to leaders like yourselves. Um, by the way, I think um I spotted Tim Tatum and Nick Mitchell responding to these polls. I applaud you guys for for engaging with those. Um, here's what neighbors have been saying on this few polls that we've started so far. Uh, the first one, the first question was, "How do you think the planning commission on the board of supervisors should proceed with the proposed zoning ordinances?" We had 340 responses. 82% of those uh uh voted to scrap the uh entire process completely and start over. 52% want to

start over with more public input. Um many would like the board to only vote on one article at a time and substantial input uh before each vote. The the next question was what priorities and values do you want in your local officials? 237 responded top the top answer was a wide margin of less spending. Um the next question was in a perfect world how would you prefer your child to be educated? 279 respondents 71% of those respondents um would like to have some other form of education for their children um other than public schools. Do you approve of the flock cameras by the sheriff's office being installed in the county? 479 responses. 84% of those people said no. Uh, do you want to have data centers in Franklin County? 467 responses. 97.6% of those respondents said no. That's all I got. Thank you,

Judy Sink. Judy Sink. Who did you call? Judy Sink. Judy Sink. Good evening, Miss Sink. Good evening. The crazy lady is back. No, you're fine. If you would state your name and address for the record, please. No, I am the crazy lady. Um, some of you know what that means. Judy Sink. I am now at 397 Willow Creek Road. Thank you. Oh, and by the way, this is uh Big Bertha, my emotional emotional support. There you go. It's a chicken.

I just have I just have some questions since I haven't been able to be at some of these uh open forums because of work and family emergencies. One, who decided to hire this group of suits to tell you how to write or what to write in this ordinance? Why were they needed? Why didn't you pull from the people in the county who live in the county, work in the county, and are raised in the county?

Where did the monies come from? I guess our tax dollars. And why now? Why now? Why was it a dis disgruntled constituent who's mad at their neighbor because the rooster crowed? Or what caused all of this? I haven't heard anybody say, "Do you think that it is okay for you to tell me us what we can do with the property that we have put our hard working, bloodied hands, paid for, bought, pay taxes on?" You can't tell me that I can't have my chickens. It's my house, my property. Have you forgotten that Franklin County is an agricultural community and county? Families rely on these farms and livelihood. Do you remember who put you in those chairs and those very people can take you out? Also, please use the brain that God gave you and reject these decisions or zoning and take the time to listen. Not just hear, but listen to what your constituents are telling you. Thank you. Thank you,

Penny Hodes. Penny Hodes. Okay,

excuse me. Uh, Penny Hodgees, 14 Golf Villa Drive, and I'm a resident and a realtor in Franklin County. So, I'm going to be direct. This zoning rewrite is being me misrepresented to the people of this county, and it will do real harm to our farmers and A1 property owners. I keep hearing from some of the board of supervisors and from planning and zoning, don't worry, you'll be grandfathered in. That is not the truth. You may be grandfathered for what you have today, but the moment you try to do anything with your land, you will be forced into these new restrictions. So, let's stop sugar coating this. Today, a land owner with 8 to 10 acres has options. They can survey off a lot for a son or a daughter. They can sell a piece if they need income. They have flexibility. Under this rewrite, that flexibility is gone. You are moving to a strict 10 acre minimum. And if someone tries to divide their land, the remaining property has to comply. That means many families will be told no, you cannot give land to your child. You can't sell a portion. and you can't use your property the way you always have. This is not preserving rural character. This is stripping property rights. And let's be honest about the impact. This will reduce property values. It will limit generational wealth and it will hurt the very farmers you claim to protect. You were looking at people. you are locking people into their land with fewer options and calling it a benefit. It's not. And then there's this issue no one seems to want to address directly and that is data centers. People in this country, in this county are not blind.

They see what's happening across Virginia. They see rural land being targeted for massive industrial project projects. And now we're rewriting zoning rules while telling people everything is fine. It doesn't add up. Franklin County is not Northern Virginia. We are not a data center corridor. We are farmland families and rural communities. And once that's gone, you don't get that back. So here's the bottom line. Stop telling A1 property owners this won't affect them because it will. Stop rushing a rewrite that clearly benefits something other than the people sitting in this room and start listening to the citizens who actually have to live with your decisions because right now this feels like less protection and more control. Recently I was given some advice to chill down. So I'm asking y'all to chill down and burn this rewrite. Thank you Tammy Airheart. Tammy Heheart.

Miss Hehart, if you uh

Yes. Hi, my name is Tammy Hehart. I reside on Overlook Road in Hardy. I also own property uh on Marryman Way Road in Manito. Um thank you, Madam Chair, and gentlemen, supervisors. Thank you so much. Um I see this new zoning ordinance as causing real financial repercussions to our county residents. Um, you just approved a 4-cent raise in real estate taxes. The median home, we dis you discussed the median home in Virginia is roughly $350,000. The increase of 4 cents per 100 adds an additional $140 a year. Maybe that doesn't sound like a lot to those that live comfortably, but what about the average family working several jobs to make end mean ends meet? And what about the retiree on the fixed income who received a whopping 2.8% COLA from social security in 2026? Compound that with the cumulative increase in groceries of 29.4% since 2021, a 3.8% increase from AE in 2025 and soaring gas prices. How do you propose the average county resident is going to be able to afford all this? Then to add insult to injury, you're proposing a complete overhaul of the zoning ordinance which will impose stricter regulations or outright prohibit re residents from exploring additional avenues to offset rising costs. Let's consider three concrete examples. Article 10 definitions in the proposed ordinance describes the following activities which I've paraphrased. agriculture, residential, the personal and recreational practice of beekeeping, chicken raisin, and growing and harvesting of plants, fruits, and vegetables. New zoning will limit these activities to zones A1, A2, RE, and R1. What happens to grandma and grandpa living within the town limits of Rocky Mount in a R2 zone? They can no longer maintain a backyard garden to offset the rising price of food. Two,

Farm Brewery, Distillery, Winery. An establishment licensed as a farm winery, limited distillery, or limited brewery under Virginia code. Franklin County, Virginia is historically recognized as the moonshine capital of the world, particularly during pro prohibition when it was estimated that 99% of residents were involved in the liquor trade. And now you want to limit these activities to just two out of 14 zones. Temporary timber processing. The temporary use of a portable sawmill, chipping mill, or pling mill on private property for processing of timber. Here comes average Joe Craftsman. He wants to buy a 2acre lot, clear it, and build a house. He owns a portable sawmill and plans to do the work himself, using the milled lumber to craft live edge tables and wood carvings to sell at craft fairs. But wait, the property is zoned R1. So instead of realizing significant savings and upycling the byproducts, he's forced to pay a company to remove and dispose of it all. Will he move here? Most likely not. How is that promoting growth? These seem these may seem insignificant, but to many residents, it's huge. And it's only the tip of the iceberg of the rules you're trying to impose. You cannot rate and then limit our means to earn our

Dale Weber. Dale Weber. Who did you say? Dale Weber. I cannot hear up here. If you all would please refrain from applause. Dale Weber. He was Oh, that's that's right. Okay. Don Greer. Don Greer. Yes.

Good evening, Miss Greer. If you'd state your name and address, please. Uh, John Greer, 1530 Buffalo Ridge Road. Um, Madame Chair, I'd like to make a comment to you and to the county attorney. When the letter was sent, ma'am, I've I've got to stop you right there. You're not supposed to address individual supervisors or staff during public comment. Okay. I'm sorry about that. It's our policy. Okay. So, can I restart my statement? Of course.

Okay. Um the question I have is that we all have certain rights that are um can't be infringed upon and when a letter was written to Mr. Quinn stating that property or a fine could be attached would not not issue the 14th amendment to give him a right to a trial. I can't answer any questions and neither can our county attorney. we don't answer questions. I mean, it's something to think about and I appreciate that and I would just like to bring that to your attention. Thank you. That we the county are also watching. Thank you. And protecting other members of the board. Thank you. Thank you.

We appreciate that. There's no one else signed up. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, we will move on from public comment. Um the board will need to uh convene into close session. Um Mr. Mitchell, if you would um read our motion, please.

Franklin County Board of Supervisors moves to enter into a closed meeting in accordance with 2.2-3711A1. Personnel discussion of appointments to county boards, commissions, etc. Discussion of the acquisition of real property or the disposition of real property. Discussion concerning a prospective business or industry or the expansion of an existing business or industry. A8. consultation with the legal council employed or retained by a public body regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such council of the code of Virginia as amended. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Meredith. May we have a roll call, Madam Clerk? Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Meredith, yes. Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes.

And Chair Smith, yes. Thank you. And gentlemen, we'll convene an ACR. We got to come back in here, brother. I think we probably should.

Nice to meet you, Carter. Nice to meet you. So, I'll just keep corresponding on email if that's good. I What do you want to know? Well, I I don't know if you read my email today. I'll let you I I've been out I've been on my way here since 2:00 or something. He needs to go to send it. We're going to come back out here. What time did you send it? We may have some appointment. It was sometime. Yeah, I was already here or on my way cuz I need it. They frown on me reading emails in the car while I'm driving. I'll look at it. Thank you. Let me forget. Okay.

Make uh a motion to certify the closed meeting. I certify that only public business only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act were heard, discussed, or considered in the closed session to which this certification applies. And only such business matters as were identified in the motion by which this closed session was convened were heard, discussed, or considered in the meeting to which this certification applies. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Mr. Tatum. Roll call vote, please. Madam clerk, Supervisor Mitchell, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Meredith, yes. Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. And Chair Smith,

yes. Thank you. Okay. Uh, gentlemen, uh, we have left to deal with some appointments this evening. Um, and I'm going to try to call these out accordingly. Um, for the Ron Oak Valley Juvenile Detention Center, um, we need to appoint Steve Sandy and reappoint Brian Carter. So, I think we can do a joint motion. Uh, if somebody would make that. So, move. Second. Thank you. Um, do we need a roll call on these, Sam? Yes. Okay. Please, if you don't mind. Supervisor Carter. Yes. Supervisor Tatum? Yes. Supervisor Quinn? Yes. Supervisor Jameson? Yes. Supervisor Mitchell? Yes. Supervisor Meredith. Yes.

And Chair Smith. Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. Um the next thing is the Ronut Valley uh transportation technical committee. Uh we had Stephanie Mathenina in that role and I need a motion to appoint Lisa Cooper. So move. Lisa, did you know that? Surprise. Surprise. Oh boy. Is there a second? Second. I thought it was going to be second by Mr. Jameson. Uh, if you would do a roll call, please. Supervisor Meredith. Yes. Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes.

And Chair Smith, yes. Okay. Next item. Um, I would ask um if it's the board's will to reappoint me um to the Ronut Valley U Transportation Planning Organization, the TPO. I'll make a motion. Second. Thank you. Roll call, please. Supervisor Quinn, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Meredith, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. And Chairman, yes. Okay. Next up, we've got two social services board appointments. Um, Sharon Tudtor, uh, to be reappointed and William Gruck, am I pronouncing that correctly? Gau.

Gal. Um, Gchau, I think I'm sorry. Did I not get that right? Dan Gchow. Gertchow. Okay. So, I think we can do this in one motion if it would be the will of the board. And I would entertain a motion. So, moved. Thank you, Mr. Mitchell. Second. Second. Thank you. And, uh, roll call, please. Supervisor Meredith, yes. Supervisor Jameson, yes. Supervisor Mitchell, yes. Supervisor Carter, yes. Supervisor Tatum, yes. Supervisor Quinn, yes. And Chair Smith, yes. Next um is uh appointment um for aging services to reappoint um William Grchow.

I got that right. Whatever. Um I hope we're not lost. Um is there a motion? I make a motion. Second. Okay. Roll call, please. Supervisor Mitchell? Yes. Supervisor Meredith? Yes. Supervisor Carter? Yes. Supervisor Jameson? Yes. Supervisor Quinn? Yes. Supervisor Tatum. Yes. And Chair Smith. Yes. Uh then we need to um appoint um for CPMT the court services unit rep Brandy Orange if there would be a motion to do so. So move. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. Roll call, please. Supervisor Carter? Yes. Supervisor Tatum? Yes. Supervisor Meredith?

Yes. Supervisor Quinn? Yes. Supervisor Jameson? Yes. Supervisor Mitchell? Yes, Chair Smith. Yes. And that concludes the appointments for this evening. Um, there are some that still need to be dealt with and hopefully we can put those to bed at the May meeting. If we could all work on those, that would be very helpful. Um, is there any other business to come before the board this evening? Madam Chair, yes. As I mentioned earlier uh in the meeting, I think I would like to take a serious look at the feasibility of twice a year tax collection in regard to our personal property. Okay.

Uh you know, two smaller payments is easier to make than one large payment and you know, the county sees benefits from it as well. But, uh, you know, with taxes going up, uh, I think we need to be mindful that if we have an opportunity to make those taxes a little easier for our our citizens to pay, we need to give them that opportunity. So, I would like if to let's let's look into it if staff will. I I I don't know if what Margaret will need as far as software, what what's going to be required there, but uh I do want to delve into that and see if that's an option that we can can look into.

So, Mr. Tatum, if it's okay with you, we'll leave that under the discretion of Mr. Sandy to work with with Brian. Um and they would probably meet with commissioner revenue or whoever is the right person uh and that will happen. Thank you. The one thing I would say to that say is there consensus of the board to do that? Is there consensus of the board? Yes.

It's fine. Um the only thing I would say to that is if you look at how how it works on personal property, it's not prrated the same as real estate. So if I own if I own a pickup truck on January 1 and I sell it on January 2nd, Nick Mitchell still has to pay that that personal property tax for that year. So if you go to twice a year collections that is going to that's going to be a monkey wrench that I don't know that will be handled. That's a really good point. I don't I don't think that will work. But I'm I'm fine with looking into it, but I don't see it working.

Let's look see if it if it is feasible. I know some counties do proration and when it comes to personal property, but u you know, Nick may be right and if that's the case, then at least we looked into it. Well, yeah. I mean, I definitely think your interest in it and we'll look into it and we'll see what we find out. Is that okay? All right. Anybody else have anything else you'd like to bring up this evening?

I'll mention one thing, Lori. I've I've received a couple complaints that the commissioner of revenue is not going after uh property tax due and and I have no idea if this is true or not, but they this these people knew people that simply don't pay their bill because they know that she's not going to come after them. It it's hard for me to believe because I've seen her I've never seen her back down from afar. However, it they mentioned that they used to publish a past due list and they don't publish that anymore. And so it's just, you know, maybe she comes in and talks to what she's doing and and that gives people some confidence in what she's doing because would you like to request a report from I don't I'm not sure what

I think you're maybe referring to the treasur commission. Oh yeah, the treasure. Yes. Yeah. Would you like for her to give us an summary overview or do you want her to come and present to us? Uh I don't I don't know what I'm open to either. Well, if she if she comes, she could come at a work session. That way we can have a little more Q&A with her if needed. Yeah, maybe that would be and it would we could do it, you know, in short form. Public it'd be nice in a public forum. We'll do it during a work session. Maybe. I think that works. Can you facilitate? That's if she agrees to do that. That's at her discretion. Yes. Are y'all in consensus to ask?

Sure. I think I think that list I think that list you can Google it and it's published. I I looked at it. It's been a while but as far as I know you can still you just Google delinquent taxes of Franklin County, Virginia pages comes up. No, it's on her it's on her website. It's on the county website. Is that correct, Brian? Do you know if if you go to the treasur section of the county website, you can see all the delinquent taxes. So maybe maybe it's not a valid point.

Well, I've asked the question in terms of, you know, what does the aging look like, you know, because that's where it really starts to matter. You know, if it's if it's over 60 days, how aggressive are we being? That's their point. That's exactly their point. And the accusation is they're not being aggressive. And so I think that if we could talk with her, find out what her process is. Okay. Um, at a minimum have her do, you know, a document for us and then maybe follow that up after we look at the document to see if we want her to come. Sounds good. Okay. All right. Y'all are misbehaving down there. No, no. I was just making Mike Meredith. I'm gonna separate y'all.

I was actually Mr. Meredith being, you know, a new supervisor needs, you know, you know what? His honeymoon period is over. I just pointed out that I used to work with a treasurer who collected 101% of taxes every year. And the way you do that is when you get to the office, there's a bunch of back taxes. Count the back taxes for that year. It's 101%. She just kept rolling. Oh my. Everybody thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Okay. Well, you know what we're going to do right now? We're going to adjourn this meeting until Thursday. Yes, Mr. Mayor. I just got a couple things real fast. I'm sorry. Because we didn't do other matters. That's on me. So, we can do that now. We are on other matters, right? Huh?

We're ahead. Okay. Real quick, um I with us looking at is I know they was talking about us doing our own assessing. I don't know if the staff would look at if we would create our own assessor position or here what in the county what that would look like. We've talked about that.

Um would that be like we do every two years and sometimes switch it up? I don't I'm just whatever we think is that's something to look at because that's a million dollars we're spending on assessments or the last one roughly. Um so I just fresh look at it. Um another thing I was just curious uh with everything that's going on zoning. I know they said that there's no state mandates you have to have zoning but if you have stone zoning there's certain state mandates you have to follow. Is that possible to get a list of those? That's you're going to be getting an updated chart on Thursday.

Excellent. And the last thing is um meeting notification when our meeting got moved up to two. I found that out through uh Facebook through my wife who's called me while I was holland saying, "Hey, your meeting's being moved up. We told you it's our fault." Okay. I just want to add and then PowerPoints. I think it would be great. I still don't see a PowerPoint from the presentation earlier from an I thought we was getting one. We got one. Okay. I'll look through my stuff. I don't see Okay. Anyway, I just think PowerPoints if we know somebody's presenting because I like always get them and usually afterwards. I like them before. You are really being a problem. I don't like surprises. I've had enough already in three months. I'm sorry it stopped. But your point's well taken.

Thank you so much. That's all. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Quinn, did you have other matters? Mr. Carter? No. I would just like to thank our c our clerk who gave us all a new policy for Where is that? In our little cabinet. Thank you. You're welcome. I was looking for this today on my desk at home. Hey, hey,

just if I can interject one matter, Mr. Gwyn, I noticed that the planning commission didn't get a second on uh denying that uh one special use permit and they declared it a failed motion. Doesn't our policy say the opposite than that? that if you don't get a second, I mean, it's automatically approved. That's what Robert's rules say. I don't know that Robert says that, but I read it in Robert's rules. Now, I have I assume the point of that rules. No, I'm just going to say it. All right, we're just going. So, your point

I It's another day. It's No, that's they don't have the same. I understand. Do you have other measures? Mr. Carter. Just the book. Just the book. Thank you for that, Mr. Okay, Mr. Jameson. I'm good. And again, thank everybody for your thoughts, your prayers, your cards. I'm surprised that you hung with us this long. God bless you. Wasn't missed it for the world. What are you saying? He's right left him. Oh, do you need a ride home? Uh, I'll you do I'll get you home. I'll phone him.

Oh my. So, we're going to adjourn our meeting until Thursday at 2:00 p.m., Mr. Meredith. Um, and it's you. Our apologies. We've already given you our apologies.