Board of Zoning Appeals - Regular Meeting

Okay, I'm going to call the Frankfurt Redevelopment Commission to order. Roll call, please. Joe Palmer, present. Chris Ver, present. John Virtue, present. Eric Woods, present. Bud McQuade, here. Everybody get a chance to look at the minutes? Make a motion to approve the minutes. I'll second that. Okay. We have a motion and a second to approve the minutes as presented. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Opposed.

One abstension. Any public comments? Nope.

Um Kimberly, you are on. Kimberly Black. Good evening. I will Wanda, can you pass these around? Um, we have had some um safety concerns at Prairie Creek Park um well across Prairie Creek Park um and some ADA um requirements. So, I'm glad Don's here so he can kind of talk about those. Um, we are looking at replacing or would like to ask to have um the parking lot next to high-tech label um with some curbs and ADA ramps and then the sidewalk. Um the sidewalk is pretty busted up on the other side. Um I think a lot of cars think that it's parking spots. Um, but what we want to do is to put crosswalks um between the entrance by the ticket booth that goes across to um the parking lot and the sidewalk on the other side of Washington Street and then across from the splash pad to um the the other side of the street on that side. Um we have a lot of vehicular traffic. I feel that it has picked up since State Road 28 was closed for a period of time. Um I don't know if now everybody just uses that way or we just have more traffic coming in. Um but like would like to have some designated crosswalks um for families and kids to get across Washington Street and not have to go all the way up to Jackson um or just cross randomly here there um across Washington Street. So was asking um I know that you guys are doing some sidewalk um work and didn't know if this is something that you would be interested

in um kind of beautifification of that area and also safety at the same time. Um compost construction. Um when we were at the Raises Festival, I asked her about um getting a quilt put together just to kind of see where we're at. And here's the estimate um for the sidewalk and the two ADA ramps. um for the crosswalk and it is $11,000 and you can pass that around. So, I asked Joe if I could bring this this evening um and he said sure. So, wanted to get your thoughts and opinions. Um according to ADA, we can't just have a crosswalk go into um nowhere land. So that's where the ADA um curb and um entrance and exit from the crosswalk would be

to meet ADA. Do we have to we put a crosswalk in? You have to have some sort of traffic control device there. We've actually talked about that, Bud. I told her to look into that where they can just like they hit the button and it has a light that flashes. Yeah. at that point. U I think she's going to work on that after. I just know that Indianapolis at the time because that could change um they had designed or a crosswalk off of the street. Mhm.

And take it across without any type of traffic control. And we had to stop that because without having a stoplight or something to designate that this is a crosswalk. I know on state road 28 they put this pedestrian signs like pedestrian crossing. Um but you can talk on that. That's what the dimpled pads are for to signify that you're c you're at a stop sign and it's a crosswalk but not to the drivers to the drivers. I don't know that that would be an ADA requirement. But you're as if they might be a if they line the cross separate statute.

It may be, but I'm just saying you're giving the false in my opinion, you're giving a false impression that it is a controlled crossing. No, I would agree with you. And I'm thinking that that is probably somewhere else in state statute, not necessarily the ADA. Well, it may not be. I'm just saying. Right. Which we should probably take a look at. Yeah, I would. Yeah, we should probably take a look at that. Yes, you'll look that up for us. Um, you know, and I thought as many people that leaves at the end of a concert going across to the parking lots over there, it would be nice at night to have something that's they can hit the button and it blinks.

Well, we could probably use those ones that we've got with the it's, you know, what's solar powered. Flashes that, you know, you say I'll put on stop signs. Yeah. Well, you do put on stop signs, but you can probably put on any sign that you wanted and a crossing would probably be effective. With regard to the high-tech label parking lot, are they okay with it always being used for events? So, I have I usually ask um Dan,

thank you. I was going to say Scott, and that's not his first name. That's his last name. Um for permission to use that. They do um have an agreement with Nickel Plate Flats as well um with that parking lot. But yes, if there's a a large festival, hot dog festival, rises, we know we're going to have a large concert. Um I reach out to him because every once in a while he'll do like a um like a family function or something like that and he'll close the parking lot off. So, but um the parking lots are also or the parking spots are also used on um Washington, excuse me, on Washington Street on that side as well. Y

with it being towards the end of the season, I think we need to look into what Bud's talking about with some type of light and maybe table this until we get that. I don't think we're going to get it in before the end of the season here. Anyway, I don't know what you got left down there this year. I have one um more concert on November 4th. November or no, I'm so sorry. October 4th. I've been in a lot of meetings today and we're talking about year end stuff, so I'm shocked I didn't say December. Um October 4th um with Bob Seager's tribute band and AC/DC. So, probably couldn't get it done before then anyway. So, no, this would be something either um before the weather turns or beginning of

I think there needs to be something else. Okay. some type of electronic, you know, thing. And then I I think I I would be in favor of doing that. Okay. I'd like to see a mapping. Maybe pull a beacon map and draw out exactly where this is going to go. Okay. Yep. Okay. Do you have anything else, Kimberly? I do not. Okay. Any questions for Kimberly? Even though she's gone. Well, I'm in the room. I'm leaving.

Okay. um claims. Um everybody's had a chance to look at them. I will say on the one um for the county annex, they did pay for all the sidewalk except for they had poured a new section over down towards the um um power box meter bases and stuff. And for us to be able to put that light in in the center, um they had to tear that back out and lay all the new conduit and stuff through there. So that is the reason that we have this bid um was that was on us and not the county. So

is any of this being torn out right now on what? Uptown? No, not the only thing that's tore out the countyy's doing in front of the annex building which was poured wrong to begin with. None of the conduit areas that we were not nothing up there is ours from this point on. So we did vote uh last meeting I believe he was absent Eric but uh to start pursuing bids for 26 on um part of it is Washington Street both east and west of Maine. So, not the county annex building, but from about Aries down to the corner.

So, you you guys already voted on doing that? We got permission at the last meeting to start proceeding with getting some bids on it. Not doing it, but just getting bids. And so, in front of Aries down to Heathers. Yes. And then what's the other direction? The other direction will be to the west removing the steel poles. Not all that concrete necessarily is going to be removed, but there if you look at the south side of Maine or Washington, it's all chopped up and the way it directs down through there. So, is that putting ornamental lights in as well?

Yes. Yes. So, um So, any other questions? I just wanted to tell you what that one was and why it's there. So, Motion to approve the claims. Okay. I have a motion second and a second to approve the claims. All in favor signify by saying I. I.

I. Opposed. Claims passed. Okay. Um, new business. Um, I was contacted or had discussions twice today about uh the Salvation Army uh has outgrown their area down there. Um, there is a possibility that that will be coming up for sale. They I was asked if we would be interested. So, I wanted to bring it before the board tonight to see what the pleasure is of the board, whether we want to possibly look into that. They're going to relocate somewhere else, I believe. Right, Don?

Yeah. Can I talk to us a little bit?

Sure. Come on up here, please. I think the main reason why if it was Shan who had talked to you about this about uh the possibility of getting it in friendly hands. Um we have a we have a developer that is um putting together a very massive building plan, housing plan that will uh basically on the east end of town. and uh we had him we usually meet with him almost on a weekly basis to discuss the process and all the things that are going on. He's also overseeing Tony Dale Real's project and this week he brought in a a remnants of because in our conversation we had started talking about the Salvation Army property. So he he brings in a drawing of what the potential could be in that area with a new new structure which would be um retail establishments on the first floor, a potential second or third floor depending on how you want to go. um living and uh starting at the uh at the house just west of the dry cleaning establishment. We would encourage to try to purchase the grocery store and the and the um storage facility and to put this start of the process of redoing Washington Street a little bit. I know also that we're in kind of a discussion with uh uh buyers of the Winsky potential move there that could occur. And so it's kind of the start of a redevelopment of of the West Washington Street and also then adding the ability to make your downtown a

little bit longer. So, I just wanted to say that's probably the reason why this is coming to you about the potential of trying to get that property into friendly hands. There's a lot of it down there and a lot can be done. I have a question for you. A few years ago, and I know Eric Eric would remember too, that was all dedicated as a blight area all the way down to there. Does that still stand? Boy, I don't I don't know that, Joe. Okay. I don't know that. It'd be nice to know that though. You might look into it because at one time it was given as a blight area. I know Les was the attorney at that time. So, well, he'll be a good source of start. I'll

Yep. I'll check with Bless. I just wanted to I just wanted to bring that up that we've already started discussing the potential of what can go in down there to increase retail in in the downtown area. Okay. That being said, who's got a map of the uh tip allocation area? Where's the west boundary of our tiff area? That's a good question. The Columbia it if it's in your downtown historic district, then if it's in your house downtown, the historic district stops on the east side of Columbia Street. So, I don't know if you're if that's where the tiff district.

The tiff district ran all the way at one time. Uh, the roundhouse was in the tiff district. Um, I believe Winsky's was in the tiff district. Um, when did you have a do you have a map on that? I'll have I don't know if I have the tip area for the tip district. I have the redevelop or the um historic one, but I don't know if I have It' probably be real helpful for the members of the RDC to know what the tip district is. Yeah. Um, I'm working on pulling it up. Hold on. Yeah, I was going to say I know had a copy at one time. I don't think it's on Beacon cuz I couldn't find it.

There is a um summary on uh

I guess reason I bring that up. I think we got a lot of plates spinning when it comes to comprehensive plans, downtown revitalization, redevelopment projects, potential uh residential retail developments. As Don has talked to a couple groups, I fear that in waiting for one report to be completed through the uh the city with the comp plan, we may be playing second fiddle here. What is the way that we can all kind of come together on this and determine some kind of a footprint that we would like to see down there? Um because I think it has to jive with with whatever the comp plan comes up with uh or I'm sorry, whatever the city comes up with. The comp plan really needs to match redevelopment.

I don't think we've done anything what Joe the No, Joe, I don't think you were on it. The revitalization plan with Shaver goes back to what 2013. The original one I believe did Colombia. We made some adjustments to that and I don't know if we did anything in that area or not. Yeah, I don't Well, I the same same reason I brought it up with the city. We have an outdated comp plan. I'm going to guess we got an outdated redevelopment plan, too.

And I think we can wrap this all into one big effort and just put the right people on these committees and uh start getting I know Don needs help. He he needs guidelines and mapping and overlays so that when he's talking to people, he can speak, yes, this is what the city wants. Am I speaking correctly there, Don? Rather than one group saying yes, one group saying no. I think we just need to come together on that. So, I'd really like the RDC to, you know, consider getting involved with with that comp group. So I I assume Kimberly we're looking at what another month or so on that grant application.

Yes. It should open um November 1st or November 5th and I have 10 days it'll close November 15th and this will be awarded in the springtime. It should be awarded either December or January and we can start as soon as we we get the notifications. It's a quick turnaround here. I think with the RTC's consensus, we can say that, you know, Joe can work with the mayor on that and see if there's avenues of coming together and just have a, you know, kind of a separate RDC wing of the of the comp plan. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. I agree with you that it needs to jive with both of them need to j together. So,

and that may bring about changing the tiff district or the the redevelopment plan that allows us to spend money in certain areas. you know, the comp plan may tell us we need to do that because I I I like the idea of buying the Salvation Army property. I hate that we can't get the dry cleaners. Uh I'd like to know, you know, what all can be gotten and then we all talk about what what a plan would be and how much money we got to find to make it happen. So, and if you don't mind, Joe, I'll just go into my next topic. American do business. If this data center would end up coming in, you know, the amount of money that the RDC would have because of that is well the biggest windfall we would ever have gotten. Um, we're going to need a rock solid plan on on how to spend that for the benefit of the community.

Yeah, I was going to say that was discussed today with us. So, yeah, I expected to see a report tonight. I thought Rey was going to have something for us. Um that

No, we did. Um we did meet um today, John and I, with uh Rei and um Wanda and the mayor was there. Um we did make some proposed changes to the budget. However, um Gary will be here at October's meeting with the resolution that we have to have for the state. um in reference to and go over the budget with everybody and then we at that point can approve it or not approve it or add or remove whatever you want to do at that point. We just have to have it approved by December 1st.

Is that something we we maybe could have a work session on as an entire commission but before the the date we have to approve it? Yeah. have a longer meeting that day where we can Yep. just go through it all. I think my comment today was, you know, when we we have our meeting and you bring us up to speed, this was Gary, that you know, the board may choose to have other places that they want to increase, decrease, whatever. So, and and you know, to be frank, I don't think we're talking about 2026, right?

Talking about 27, 28. Um, if you did not catch, I I said I really uh our proposed budget for 26 increased almost 1.8 million for next year. And uh at the time he wasn't sure how Senate Bill one was going to affect us. Um it has not affected us and um I think there was Have you got anything to add? No. He just said that there was uh several things that's went in inventories and and equipment and properties and stuff like that. The increases is what's increased for us. So

he said the Fredo the real property and the Fredo expansion was large and he doesn't expect a lot to change when the tax bills go out. Although it could be altered some but not a significant amount and so he was comfortable putting those numbers in. but he plans to be here on October 30th to go over the comprehensive plan, get the resolution, and make any changes after he updates this. So, yeah, I do have a question for you, Joe. You said to increase 1.8 million. Is that including what we already get or that's plus? That's plus. So, we're going to have as of right now $3 million. Yeah, we'll know more at the end of October.

I'm just trying to get that straight. I mean that's we actually have a potential of going from uh oh 2.4 million up to 42 million. So okay. So did you guys discuss a pretty big increase in property acquisition? Uh actually we raised it. You only raised it 100. Yeah.

Yeah. on property. We raised it up to 600,000. Um and then um we increased u the what was it sidewalk project. Uh we increased it an additional 100,000 there. and you increase the lighting. And then the there's a $250,000 uh future project, which is just sort of a catchall for something that might come up. And we have not spent that this year. And then there's discussion on if you guys want to increase that. He was going to talk to you about it. Um there which that could fall under that if necessary. If you ran short in the other area, do you see that special project or future projects 2025? That's not been touched. So, he was going to push that forward and then collectively check with you guys on if you need anything additional in that unless something comes up. I don't foresee you spending that this year like not this late in the game anyway.

I don't foresee it. So the pass through calculation goes up quite a bit and we're safe up to what 200 we have to pass it through.

For your information, it does not look like the Salvation Army is within our tiff district. Okay. I didn't get a map, but I they have a list of all the parcel numbers and looking through that list, which is on my phone. So, but looking through that list, it doesn't look like that parcel is included in that tip district. Stop at Columbia Street. I don't know. Okay. I don't have a map, so I' I'd have to find a I'd have to find a parcel that was on Columbia Street and look it up by parcel. So, I know Columbia Street is included because we paid money out on that in that area. Mhm. But I thought it ended there.

That might be. But um there is on Gateway there is a list of all of the parcels that are in our tiff district. So if there's a specific parcel that you want to look up on a computer, it'd be a lot easier because I could just use F and find it. But I they're in order by parcel number and I scrolled through and I didn't see that one on there. So in order for us to acquire that building, we would have to change the plan a little bit. Correct. Have to amend it to pick them up. So Rich Starky's office should have that map. They're the ones that did it, right? Yes.

Yes, they should because they're the ones that took care of doing all the legal work for that. We may have it, but I'd have to talk to Les and see if I could find it. I'm going to say I'm sure Les has got it somewhere. So I can call Rich tomorrow and talk to him. That's not a problem. something good. Yeah, we should have a copy of it. So, we'll go on the hunt for it as well, but we'll get a copy of it and then we can also have it added to Beacon. The county can add

it to Beacon. So we'd have an easy reference for it anytime. Okay. Any other new business? Let's go down to old business. Um, I know you come up talked on, but pass that around. Um, it's been a busy week for me in the office and so it has a tendency for me to wake up at like 3:00 in the morning and start trying to figure out the direction that that I'm going to go for the day. And so today's direction leaned towards the property on North Main Street that we've all been talking about trying to uh get ourselves in the hands of. uh you've actually put a proposal out for the property, the potential of purchasing it, and um and we're not getting a lot of response back from the one of the owners that are out of state. So, I thought that today would be a good day since it's a RDC meeting to come in and say I think we've pretty much had enough of this. Um this is a lot of the information on the property. Um, they they actually came before you back in I think it was April of 23 with a proposal to actually fix the front of the the building and everything that was wrong with it as far as facadewise

and but um it doesn't show here about how it all came to conclusion. I know we we talked and John, you can talk about that in a little bit, but um I think that we've gone long enough trying to get to some type of an agreement on uh getting the building looked after. So, um I would like permission from you guys or from the the board here to uh hire an engineering firm. Um, we usually use KJG to come in and and do an analysis or a study of the building. Um, I have access to to get inside. She's given me that a while back. And so I I can get the the uh engineer inside to be able to look at completely at the building to make a decision on whether or not the building is is a building that should uh be torn down or if it's a building that can be refurbished. Um I've got a letter ready to go out to them basically stating that, hey, we're we're going to do a study. We're the city's getting ready to do a study on your property. We're going to check to see if it's um if it has some issues or if it's rebuildable. Um when we get the report back, then the money that the proposed money that the RDC was going to give for your property will go away and uh we will either do one of two things. will either move forward with the uh uh demolation of the building through whatever court action we have to take uh or if the report comes back that the the building is is uh can be refurbished then we're going to we're going to force action upon that

also. Um, I think that we have enough ordinances and and uh information for the city that we can make it happen one way or another. Now, you know, um it would be for me a lot simpler if the building came back that it needed to be taken down. It makes my job a lot easier than to try to deal with somebody out of state and um trying to get things accomplished on a re refurbished building. So, um I guess I just need your permission. And then I want to say that my office doesn't have the funding to take care of of the engineering firm of this. Um and when we when we did a a building or a house on Barner Street uh earlier this year in an engineering firm, it cost about 600 bucks. So, you know, it it's going to be at least that probably maybe a little more be the size of the building. And I guess I just want to make sure that maybe the RDC can pick that that tab up. So basically we can uh move forward one way or another on the building. The um thing you were talking about in 20 2023 that they had put in an estimate for a facade grant John Reed. I think it was 17 or 18,000

almost 18. We didn't take any action on that. Um I at the time I I just first of all it wouldn't even begin to take care of that building and um we're throwing good money after bad. So we just tabled it. Um as far as the engineer if u we make a proposal that we appropriate $1,000 up to thousand for an engineer. You feel like that would take care of it? I think I think that should I I would hope that it would. Are you aware right now there's one of those windows? I went by there earlier today. Wind completely out and anybody can go in and out of that building right now.

No I I didn't. We I I try to go by the building maybe every other month and take a look at it just to make sure. Um and a lot of that has to do because as we all know the parapit wall is is peeling off of the front and and I believe the only thing that keeps it from falling is the rubber roof, the new the rubber roof that's attached to it. Um so I I do try to keep tabs of that building just to make sure that nothing's gotten wider or or or worse on the facade side. Uh but I'll go by um they're responsible to make sure that the building's secure about halfway down the alley. I mean any I guarantee there's people going in and out of there.

Yeah, we that's been a challenge that we had them fixed with a screen wire and stuff that was in it. But I'll I'll go down and make sure of that. I was going to say I actually seen either a body going in or going out. No kidding. Here about two weeks ago. All right. I'll I'll I'll do it. I'll put it on my on the ledge. So, I don't know if he's going in or out, but he was there. Well, a sight to be seen, but I I'll look at that. Thanks for informing that. I did I didn't know that.

Yeah, but it had been I don't know, a couple years since I driven down there and walked that building. I thought I'm going to go see that today. And it's it's pretty bad. I mean, the amount of work on that building is incredible. It would take to fix that up. Our previous action was to put in a low enough bid that we could afford to tear it down. Right. Your bid was not

It was your your goal was to keep it in the area of about 50,000 bucks. And when the bids came in for the tearown and and your um appraisals came in from the two appraisers, it it actually worked itself out to be $20,000 for the appraisal, which then allows you enough money to for one of the bids to to be able to take the building down. So, but you you believe this appraisal is a a necessary tool to move forward. It has to because because we don't have the ability, we'd have to take it to court. So, if we want to tear it down, the process is that we would have to take it to court to do that.

In order to prove that it needs torn down, we have to have an engineering firm say so. Um, so what I always recommend is before I got burned on this before, so Les had filed one like three or four years ago and didn't have the engineering firm come in first. And then after he had filed, he had the engineering firm come out and turned out you could fix the building and it created a problem with the whole court process. We got it settled and it ended up fine. But to eliminate that, I now recommend strongly that we get that engineer first. You want that horse in front of the car. I would prefer that. That makes my job easier and less court cost.

Is the [Music] structures capabilities right now is it a public safety issue? You say it's it's separating the parapit wall. Yeah. Could it fall down on someone trying to climb in? Well, it's more the front is I'm saying if it's got safety issues, should we not perhaps use that as to our advantage and cordon off the area? Well, we've we've tried Well, I mean, we did that for a while and then the street department needed what we had to so it all got removed. I think there might be some yellow tape down there, but I don't think there's anything that

cuz cuz we were concerned about the wall peeling off. And uh that's that was one of the reasons why I had started to make contact with the with the property owner in Florida. And uh I thought that we were marching in the right direction. And then um there was uh when when dad passed away, he he left it to both son and daughter. Well, then the son passed away and then that caused an issue because then I remember

the son's children get engaged and and then now it became a family squabble. I mean I can tell you all about it. I I I was been about seven months on this trying to get things moving and I thought that we were moving in the right direction and then you had a family member go well I want to get in on this because she I guess thought maybe anyway um but it it's a uh it's it's been a challenge but I think now it's time for it not to be a challenge and we try to get one way or another get it down. The building has is in is in sad shape. The back of it is in in sad shape. It's got a lot of of uh cracks in in the wall. Um there's actually a separation going on back there as uh you can see some uh u um I don't know what I call it what the roofing is starting to peel off of off of the top a little bit. So now it's exposing wood from from that the roof usually sits on. And so I mean there there's a lot I I'm I'm going to guess that when they get through looking at it, it's probably going to be condemnable. But you know, I I'm not that guy. So we'll try to make sure that what it is, it is. But

well, my personal opinion, if you're going to have to go to an engineering firm, whether it be KJG or Thunderbird or whomever, whomever, that we need to do that. Do they need to have more than one? Just one's good enough. And I know KJG, we have used him in the schools numerous times. Yeah. And have a lot of confidence in what he Oh, he's a hot dog hall of famer. So, yeah. Well, hope not against him. No, I mean he's and I think they would act very quickly to get somebody over here to get that to

Yeah, they did force on Barner Street and I would guess the same thing. I will make the call on Monday when maybe tomorrow to see how quickly we can try to get in. Like I said, I do have access to the to the front door, the combination to get in. And um I've been in the building. I I went in the building with um our our the gentleman that helped us with ADA just to look things over. And uh because when we went into looking at tearing down the building, it's a it's a common wall and we wanted to make sure that if we tore the building down, does that common wall come down? The answer was no, it needs to stay up. And um uh so that part that I I do know of, but I I just want to make sure that it's one way or the other. Like I say, just my personal opinion, I think a phone call tomorrow to KJ is a wellplaced phone call.

I I have a sale, so it'll be a quick one. So, well, in the interest of getting this done, I'll make a motion that we appropriate up to $1,000 for an engineering firm to look at that building. I'll second. Have a motion, a second to hire a engineering firm for up to $1,000. All in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Don, you have your money. Thank you. Any other old business from anybody? Real quick, I looked up the uh regulations on the lights for crosswalks. You do not have to have lights. You do have to have pedestrian crossing signs. Okay.

So, we don't have to put flashing lights up, but you can if you want to. I just think in that one facility or area for the one especially we need something over there. So I think lights would be a great idea. Yeah. Have we had any issues during our festivals? With people almost being hit by cars or that you're aware of they dart out. There's close calls. Yeah. Yeah. I just wonder.

Yeah. Thank I think it's our kind of our responsibility since we built the park, you know, to be due diligence for the people that go to the park. So, okay. Anybody got anything else? Call the meeting adjourned. Thanks everybody for coming. Thank you.